I always wondered when i see androgynous stores why there was no feminine clothing to fit men , everything always looks like mens clothes on women models
I remember that one company who said they wanted to make clothing for Enby people and then proceeded to show afab people wearing masculine clothing and it was a moment of ".....I guess androgyny is synonymous with masculinity"
Just being open here, I used to not like myself for not having those cheekbones and jawline because I thought that’s what made people attractive but the more I learn about this situation regarding Eurocentric features and the way society enforced these unachievable beauty standards on us the more I begin to love who I am. Just some ranting lmao :)
@@natalietorres3362 Idk if this is overstepping but I want to ask if you're a POC, because I feel like some features are demonized on us but glamorized on white people, I assume you're not cuz you mentioned how you learned about eurocentric beauty standards but I might be wrong and don't want to completely assume you're experience
I feel like the whole 'androgyny is mainly masculine' thing always comes back to misogyny, masculine things are celebrated and femininity is not, even for cis women. For example I would say I sorta fit the 'cool girl trope', hating pink and all that and I find my self asking 'do I really feel like this of my own volition or is it societal indoctrination?' Gender is so ridiculous and confusing
On the other hand, you can't extricate your identity from the society you live in. Self-reflection is a great thing - to an extent. Just remember not to get too caught up in self-doubt. It's okay to not like pink (or to like pink), and don't make yourself feel guilty over your harmless preferences or make yourself do things you hate for the sake of wokeness. I'm not saying this is a problem you have, I've just seen a lot of people get so caught up in online discourse they forget to just enjoy their lives, and wanted to put this out there.
The part about cis dudes playing dress up is so true. I don’t have a problem with people wearing a dress for their photo shoot but they can ultimately take it off at the end and a lot of them are then just perceived as a societally acceptable dudes. Some of us actually present like that day to day and we can’t just turn it off. Amazing video! Edit: I didn’t think this would get a lot of likes so just to clarify. I absolutely think that people should dress however they want and there’s a lot of cis dudes who want to wear dresses and they should! My point was more that there is a difference between people who always present in a more androgynous/gender non conforming way and people who tap in and out of it for photoshoots etc. Both are absolutely fine but it’s important to acknowledge the privilege which comes with the second one.
"Some of us actually present like that day to day and we can’t just turn it off. " The sheer irony is that those of us who present like that day to day are call "cis", which erases the distinction between playing dressup for fun vs. authentic expression of self.
@@sorcerykid people who are transgender also aren't playing dress up. They are expressing their true self. I think that point was saying that these celebrities don't dress androgynous day to day, so they don't have that experience. They have the ability to get praise for being "androgynous" when they're not.
@@bridgdjxnfkdzkx Gender nonconforming folks like myself are not transgender (by prevailing definition at least). Instead we are called "cisgender" which suggests that my 24/7 gender presentation is not integral to whom I am. This is clearly a surreptitious means to push a unilateral narrative of acceptable gender variance, which is that of a transgender-only experience, and anybody else is just playing dressup. The notion that gender nonconforming people are "cisgender" is not only intellectual dishonest, it causes very real harm in society by inducing a lot of youth into believing that they must "identify" as another gender in order to present as their true self. This phenomenon has become an epidemic, esp. amongst youth whose primary social interactions are in online forums, and thus not exposed to credible literature on the subject of queer theory, or just even social psychology.
@@sorcerykid Nicely said, I feel like gender non conforing people get forgotten or outright shouted down in these discussions sometimes.100% agree with everything you said. I also think increasing awareness and acceptance of being gender nonconforming will go a long way to help deconstruct a lot of gender stereotypes. Both cis and trans folk are getting caught up in this obsession with performing gender in certain overblown ways. Whilst I can understand there's a time and place for tradition, stereotypes wouldn't exist if there was no truth to them and trans people are going to be at least partly driven by a want/need to pass (understandably) etc I think we need to get our heads out of our asses a bit. You must be seeing teenyboppers running around like headless chickens on Tik Tok having an identity crisis because they have a new favourite colour whilst you just throw on whatever and give zero fucks about whether what you think, feel, like or do is gendered (that is not to say it is simple as that for genuine transpeople.
not trying to hate at all, just curious, wouldn't it actually be beneficial to nonconforming people when celebs like harry styles etc. or in fact anyone post these sorts of pics online? as in, wouldn't it bring more awareness to androgyny, and therefore make it more societally acceptable and less intimidating for others to present in this way irl?
When you brought up the exemple of unisex shoes leaning towards masculine cuts it reminded me : femininity is a singularity, and masculinity is the default. I study filmmaking and i have been taught that in narration, womanhood is a characteristic and this originated in epic tales like the Odysseus, Hercules, and other myths covering the "hero's journey". Of course this is because of patriarchy, but can explain why we have a hard time changing our perspectives. You made a really relevant video, and this was very important in my journey (as i'm non binary). Thank you!
that's cool to see that from the film studies perspective! i studied law, and quite a few policies and laws have systemically been created with masculinity and male bodies as the default. Crash test dummies, for example, are made in a male model, and for the longest time that was it. eventually they said 'oh we need a female model' to you know... make sure afab people wont fly out the window in a crash. but they just made a scaled-down model of the male model. and it isnt even required that the 'female' model is tested in the driver seat, just the passenger seat. Also most guidelines on ambient office temperature were made in the 60's when it was mostly men in the office who wore big suit jackets. This is the reason its so damn cold in office buildings- because men, i mean 'the default totally unisex androgynous person', like it best that way.
This is actually so interesting on a sort of unrelated note, because I was watching this video about the default character in tv shows being male. A lot of the times when they want to tell jokes in cartoons and etc they make the background characters that play a role in the joke white and male. Or even just the background characters in general. The reasoning for this is that if they make the character female or another race, than the audience might just think that joke has to do with the character being female or with their race. It just speaks to volume the biases against female characters and non-white characters and how they are seen in media.
@@fae1984 well hell yeah we stan them but like...it’s kinda just the idea of them, right? Like please genuinely inform here but I just don’t know of any non-binary filmmakers and I’m a queer film student lol
yesss i absolutely adored the billy porter dress it absolutely deserved more credit than it got. I think about it constantly when people talk about harry styles being the sort of “god-send” of androgyny
there's something about amab ppl declaring their OWN femininity vs taking on someone ELSE'S feminine identity that deeply threatens hetero-patriarchy's existence. Like our society allows for and understands using femininity as costume (ie Halloween, Vine, popularized drag culture, straight boys posting "girlfriend does my makeup" videos, etc)...but once that feminine presentation is devoid of humor, absurdity, and/or performance, the transmisogyny comes flying. Because if amab folks are CHOOSING to present earnestly feminine, that threatens the notion that masculinity is inherently superior. Or something like that, maybe.
this is simply transmisogyny!! that is why trans people who present in a traditionnally feminine way (and no matter their agab) are so bullied everywhere. non-binary people, all of them, their feminity is taken as either an argument to accuse them of faking their identity or to laugh at them/not take them seriously in who they are. Feminity has always been a target this patriachy world as we know it. People who present in traditionnaly feminine ways are always seen as vulnerable, people, often cis men, will see them as target. And then add to this the concept of passing: not passing as cis, AND looking typically feminine. That's what kills so many trans women, trans feminine people, and trans people in general.
It's a mess for amab trans feminine people, no matter what you do they have trouble. Anything you do or don't do is questioned. they search for a reason to distrust because it would be easier to write you off as a faker (no effort) then have to actually see the human. (some effort) We drive ourselves crazy trying to figure out why transphobe transphobe, it's complicated.
All of this! I'm amab, grew up in a small town. I got refused jobs because the whole town had seen me with nail varnish and eyeshadows at some point. But some manly bro puts on something that to him is a costume once and now we stan? My feminine expressions got me trouble because I don't take them off to go back to being acceptably masculine.
@@licensetochill4992 as a trans guy, i always used to feel pressured into dressing and acting masculine because i was scared of what people around me would say and it made me feel like i couldnt be feminine at all or i was just ‘pretending to be trans’. now im pretty chill, i do feminine things sometimes but im comfortable with who i am
The exact same thing happened to the natural hair movement. Afro textured hair was high jacked by loose curls, soft waves and racially ambiguous textures. What was meant to empower women with hair that was the opposite of conventional beauty standards ended up reinforcing those same toxic standards.
I 100% agree with you. Idk if this is a reach and you might disagree, but that happening was inevitable because as a community we can’t let go of the one drop rule and a lot of us don’t want to acknowledge the colorism, featurism, and texturism in our community. So without fail once *everybody* is included the people that need it the most are excluded and no one bats an eye
Exactly. On this note, everyone, check out RASHIDA STROBER, she is the Mother of DARKISM theory activism and is the first one to pin this therm. She is a legend and will go in Herstory for what she is doing right now.
This also goes along the path of how black androgynous women are assumed blatantly as men whereas white androgynous are praised for “boundary pushing” and being “fashionably innovative”.
Everyone always assumes that I'm a man but thats because of the way look (I guess?), nothing to do with the colour of my skin. It makes me uncomfortable to always correct people but I don't want to change my looks either. I'm white btw
Yes on the plus size points!! If we aren't showing off our "assets" (such a bullshit term in itself) and curves to be feminine, we fight even harder to be accepted, seen, and seen as valid. Now in an electric wheelchair, my disabled plus sized body gets virtually overlooked and dismissed now that I can't flaunt cleavage (outside of my home because my skin reacts to sunlight) and the shape of my body is compressed by sitting. I can't just be in the middle ground. I am not black or brown, but my body is seen differently.
“I’m just tired of cis white guys playing dress up for clicks and then somehow redefining androgyny.” So many points were made in this video, but this line was truly flawless. Thank you for making space for this conversation.
@@theresashaw5027 yeah, and women with brown hair are tired of being called brunette. We are women, not brunette women. This is what true oppression looks like
Those masc white girls on tiktok being defensive about calling themselves studs, threw me hard. Because growing up, there was more to calling yourself a stud than just dressing kind of masculine and the whole lifestyle was prominent in the black community. Separately, I’m guilty of being ignorant of the origins of androgyny as we know it. I was taught that examples of androgyny were Boy George and Bowie. This video has opened my eyes to a lot of things. I’ll have to sit with it and do some self reflection. Signs of a stupendous video!!!
Same here! My friend brought this issue up to me when we were talking about Harry Styles and it was a lot to wrap my head around. Then I came back to this video and everything started to come together. I’m glad that channels like this are talking about this issue on a deeper level rather than just conservatives hating men in dresses or liberals fawning over it
i b having a gender journey this pandemic n i think the whole "androgyny is white, skinny, and 70% masculine" is a large part of my gender struggles n body dysmorphia (if its even that). ive been wanting to b more neutral or androgynous, but i feel like femininity sticks out so much more, n that masculinity is more of a default, blank slate type shit. its... interesting. like, if i wear a skirt or put on earrings, that to me feels louder than if i wear a snapback and baggy jeans. i just kinda was sitting here accepting that but fuck that 😂 thank u for the validation this friday jade
I can relate to your feeling; i too have been on a gender journey this pandemic and started using she/they pronouns however as jade said the media default is slim and as a human who is not only tall but also have some curves it is hard to see ones self as androgynous when ass you see is the complete opposite of what you are
I've thrown it out the window, I recognize that parts of me are masculine while others are more feminine, and I've come somewhat to terms with that. Im not what would be exactly labeled as androgynous, I think? But if I feel comfortable the way I am and Im not harming anyone, that's all that matters.
I wonder if the reason féminine clothing stand out so much more is the fact that men don't really wear those type of clothes? Since women CAN use 'masculine' clothes and no one will bat an eye at it, men have a much more difficult time wearing feminine clothing and no one batting an eye at it. If everyone could wear what they want, I wonder if I could feel more androgynous and even masculine in feminine type clothing. Just makes me think
I relate so much! I've been thinking a lot about why I hate the more feminine traits I have, for example my curves and the way I speak. For some reason I started to feel insulted if someone pointed some of these things about myself, because no matter how I dress, I can have short hair and wear a suit, people will point that because of my personality I am "meiga", which is a word in portuguese for someone who is loving and caring. And this is the word I've been called the most in my life and also the word that I hate the most, because in my head I hear "you are feminine = you are weak and fragile". But like, femininity is not a bad thing! I don't know if this makes any sense, I am just confused 🤦🏻♀️
bruh exactly this!!!! I still have friends who call me she/her on "accident" and im like I've been non binary for years but im so fem in appearance and also latinx so got those curves and full lips and ugh I hate it here
I've always read the white straights stanning harry styles as fetishization of androgyny especially because they don't stan for androgynous poc..🙅🏾.. who have existed across genders and sexualities forevrrrrr! I 100% agree that black androgyny is different from white androgyny. Actually had a convo about that with a friend when watching one of your previous videos
I'm curious (not trying to offend). How do you view black and white androgyny and what are their differences? I understand her points, but I guess I'm curious about another perspective.
There's also an expectation for non-binary people to be androgynous, specifically the idealized socially acceptable form you're talking about. Like non-binary people owe gender conforming people androgyny in order to be valid.
I think this is because gender norms are strictly policed for men and women, so it's assumed that nonbinary correlates with androgyny. In fact, even in the LGBTQ community many people still conflate the terms "nonbinary" and "gender nonconforming".
I HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS, people telling me that they couldn't get my pronouns 'right' (they/them) until I dressed more 'androgynously'. It's as if they see non-binary as just another box, a third gender with its own rigid definition, when in truth, gender comes in a literally infinite set of expressions and identities.
no one respects my pronouns still because I have big full LatinX lips and obviously look and sound like a woman but I want to be they/them and felt like I had to try to lessen my naturally fem appearance
@@thekittykatie (im an enby person from brazil just for the record) i honestly dont understand why people are usind latinx since latin is already a neutral term. could you explain why you're using this term please?
The thing you said about how plus sized women's curves are accentuated a lot in the media is why I never felt comfortable when I was almost plus sized because I am flat chested and never felt represented. When I was androgynous I wasn't aware of it because I didn't know you could have a booty and be androgynous. Also I'm not plus sized anymore because I have digestive problems and now have a very limited diet as a result
As a non-binary person who isn’t super conventially skinny and have a more feminine body shape (larger hips, etc) I’ve always really struggled with body dysmorphia because I always felt like I had to have no curves and be skinny to fit into this ‘default’ of what androgynous people should look like. This was definitely a breath of fresh air and I’m really happy you’re giving voices to groups who are otherwise left out of the conversation of what androgyny is really about, thank you so much :)
as an afab enby, there’s an idea that if i am not masculine my trans identity isn’t valid, despite not personally identifying as transmasculine. as a non-binary person i am not someone who is “halfway to being a man”, and i have no obligation to dress masculine. though i enjoy it a good 60% of the time, it feels performative on some days where i’m only doing it so no one calls me “miss”. i couldn’t put my finger on why suddenly people around me started appreciating harry styles androgyny while rejecting mine; thank you for putting that into words
hello i needed this i'm curvy but i usually want to present more androgynous and it feels like u have to be skinny to be successfully(?) androgynous? i always see non binary/androgynous people represented as angular, thin, white, masc. and honestly it discouraging
god same i nearly started crying listening to this because as a bigger, more feminine bodied person theres a lot of things that i've thought "i can't do that until i get skinny" and recently i've started to think that exploring my gender is one of those things... like i'm fine with she/her and a lot of my feminine qualities are things i like about myself. but when i dont perform femininity (like i wear an "unflattering" sweater and no makeup), i'm happy but the feeling is immediately followed by a ton of internalized body shaming shit so i've never really been brave enough to unpack the happiness. so yeah this helps a lot 🥺💕💕
Bruh, I be feelin stuck. I'm a cis woman and thought that I was androgynous just because I would get misgendered all that time. It's definitely in my facial features, but I be feeling comfortable in baggy clothes and how I present masculine mannerisms
I feel every bit of this. My favourite is when brands will come out with "genderless" clothing lines. And it's just grey/beige athleisure. And I'm like, cool, so colour + shape is only reserved for gender...coolcoolcoolcoolcool
“It’s cute for a photoshoot, but it’s not cute when it’s your identity” .. WOW yes. Such a simple statement, but so true. Thank you for this video! It helped me put my thoughts on androgyny into words.
The fat phobia regarding androgyny is so pervasive. I’m skinny and I STILL had someone leave a hate comment saying “androgyny is only cool if you’re not fat” like...okay???
I love this so much!! Especially when you touched on the whole "androgyny = masculine" in 'genderless' brands/stores. As a trans guy who has struggled with how I present and appear (people generally don't know whether to define me as masculine or feminine) as well as wondering if I'm androgynous at all based on the whole "androgynous = skinny, white, and masculine"- I LOVE how you focused on the definition of androgyny. Just 👏
@Okiroshi what I meant was, you can feel more feminine, or more masculine, or more androgynous from one day to the next, so I'm not gonna fault people who wear feminine clothing one day and not the next because that would just be forcing them right back into the binaries from which they're trying to escape. Of course people who can pass as cis whenever they want will have more privilege, but that's not a reason to discredit their gender fluidity.
@Okiroshi I think you're confusing sex and gender. The latter is not biological. There's a lot of stuff online about this if you want to know more. Have a good day.
@Okiroshi Transgender people DON'T have to go through medical transition to be valid. They can remain untouched their entire lives and still BE the gender that they say they are. Just by virtue of saying they are X gender, _they are X gender._ Gender is an identity concept, identity is abstract. Sex is biological. Gender and sex are not the same, not by a long stretch. Being male and being a man are not the same. Being female and being a woman are not the same. They're tied but in the end one is biological and not fluid, and the other one is psychological and thus, fluid, since us humans have fluid, ever-changing psyches.
@@DUWANGlai_kangyi although i understand what you’re saying, i don’t think a trans woman would be comfortable being called male and viceversa, even if it refers to her biology
As a non-binary person, it’s been really hard to be read as androgynous with curves and a round face. I could wear the same thing as a skinny person who would be read as androgynous, but never am. Thanks for speaking on this!
Apparently that ugly dress is a modified version of a better looking runway Gucci dress. It was modified to be more masculine, that's why they put a blazer over it. Its like they felt the need to justify a dress on a man when they could have done something more fun and exciting.
I appreciate this so much as I am a Cis woman whose been bald for 4 years. Whenever I gain weight I feel that I have to go back to longer wigs. During quarantine and poor mental health I haven't worked out as much, gained a ton of weight and I hated how much the short hair I loved didn't seem "chic". I felt so off of my own aesthetic. I really needed this. So thank you.
I needed to hear some of this so badly, I feel so insecure in my gender expression sometimes because I feel like I can never be “masculine enough” for myself as a gay woman but I’ve been working to let myself embrace my femininity while still feeling affirmed in my androgynous expression, we definitely need to be letting black and brown ppl take the wheel back in terms of society’s definition of androgyny
Thank you: I didn't know how much I needed to hear this. My hips and thighs have been a huge trigger of dysphoria for the last year, and I never thought about how much androgynous representation factors into that.
You know it's interesting. Because a person's "style" of dress can also change over time. For instance in elementary school I was a HUGE tomboy and I dressed to reflect that. However once I hit puberty for some reason, and started highschool, my look subconsciously changed completely. Without realizing. I became very feminine. And I've been this way ever since. So sometimes we change over time. And I think that's ok to!! Nobody is held against their will to look or remain a certain way.
"Nobody is held against their will to look or remain a certain way." I was. When I came out as trans I was forced into a double life. My coworkers were introducing me to clients, against my will, as my dead name and using incorrect pronouns. This is why transgender people become homeless, because we are bullied out of our jobs at the most difficult moments of our lives. There are different levels of abuse for trans people, lot of what we get put through would never fly for a cis person. We are severely outnumbered, that's why they can beat down harder on us. Asserting my gender to a client can get me instantly fired. I basically live at the mercy of transphobes, even now. Clients are attempting to rename me for their own convenience. "how do you feel about emilo" ? I'm not making this up. People are horrible to me and i'm not allowed space to defend myself. It's an endless circus around transphobic people. I have no power but to endure.
@@emilyganguly277 I am so incredibly sorry to hear this. I can only imagine how difficult this is for you. I was only speaking on my own experience. But I get what you're saying. Society has a long way to go...in terms of acceptance. We are all different and that is beautiful!! Celebrate you! Be you. Do you. And I really hope things get easier...
I absolutely hate showing off my "assets" because to me they aren't assets at all. I hate having big boobs so much and all I want to do is hide them. I plan on eventually getting a breast reduction (mostly for cosmetic reasons ngl but also to prevent back pain in the future as well). I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say here as it relates to this topic, but thank you for saying all this it definitely makes me feel slightly better :)
This video came along just when I needed it. I’ve been feeling really ashamed of my femininity recently, or like it’s been holding me back from being androgynous - but Jade is right. We have the capacity to redefine androgyny and embody androgyny in ways that aren’t defined by skinny white masculinity and mass media.
PIERRE XO I would say is androgynous because most people think he's either, a lesbian, gay man, or transgender, until u found out that he is a straight Male and I love him😂😭
Thank you for this. I'm nonbinary and people are CONSTANTLY trying to define me as transmasc. Like no. I'm not transmasc. I'm transgender, but I'm nonbinary. My gender expression is my own, stop trying masculinize it for your own comfort. You can call me butch if you really want, but I'd really prefer it if you would just let me be nonbinary.
Spitting facts as always. I'm someone who believes clothes have no gender blah blah but you've definitely challenged some ideas about androgyny/unisex clothes that I didn't realise were problematic. Thank you
That’s so true about plus size people. It’s like if you’re plus size, you’re only respected if you’re hyper feminine. But if you dress masculine, it’s seen as not attractive or confusing. It’s sad.
This is a breath of fresh air. When I was an adolescent, from 9 to 14, I dressed in predominantly masculine clothes. But as I got older and curvier I started to dress in more dresses and skirts, mostly because I cared what people thought of me and I associated my womanhood with feminity, which was foolishness. By my early twenties, I was a size 10, and I honestly saw so many skinny androgynous women (that were typically white) and felt I could not dress how I truly wanted to because "androgyny would be weird on me". I have a lot of internalized sexism to dismantle within myself. But I'm glad people are talking about how androgyny is seen in the media.
you’re so right, I’m both masculine and feminine and I’m curvy too, and I feel comfortable with my body when I’m feeling feminine but when I’m feeling more masculine I hate my curves, it shouldn’t be like this it sucks :(
i’m non-binary and i’m always trying to appear more androgynous, and this video made me realize i’d been repressing my feminine side, which makes no sense as androgyny is both masculine and feminine. i’ve been leaning towards a more masculine appearance and mannerisms and trying to push down my feminine mannerisms and avoid a feminine appearance. but both are equally valid and equally who i am. thank you so much for this
same !! this helped i’ve been thinking about why it didn’t feel right bc i was purposely trying to push myself to be more masculine and i don’t need to be white and skinny(er) to be androgynous :)
Absolutely spot on about androgyny downplaying femininity. Oof! What is it with the straight cut flannel? The point about thin bodies too! My only critique of your arguments might be that I am not sure we can say for sure someone like Harry Styles or other examples of white men (or Jayden Smith for that matter) in dresses and eyeliner are doing it for clicks and photo shoots, or to “be brave”. I think it is really a part of their personalities and i would rather applaud them than ridicule them. Even if they sometimes wear “normal” masculine clothing it would be hypocritical to say that disqualifies them from the identity or the space.
Thank you! I have identified as a non-binary femme and recently with the pandemic I have been dressing less femme and I have felt like this is more like basic “cis woman” comfortable clothing and it just felt like physical good but not aesthetically good. I’m glad to hear about this definition of androgynous that helps me see my dressing as more androgynous and not a denial of my non-binary femme identity. This really helped!
me loving feminine clothes (also like masculin clothes too), being really curvy, kinda thicc have strong jaw but still liking makeup and having native descent, i always felt like i couldnt call myself androgynous with how the media show androgyny... thank you for your video, i will show it around 💗 i love you, and you really inspire me to be myself.
i'm white, but i definitely related to and appreciated you speaking about androgyny only being white, thin, tall, angular, masculine,... as a transmasculine person who's also really feminine and not particularly skinny, it's so difficult to just exist. like every passing or "how to look more masculine/androgynous" video with tips for afab people mostly works on skinny people who already look pretty androgynous by default. that's not how i look and even if i lost weight, that's just how my body is built. it means so much to see plus size men existing, especially when they're also queer and gender non-conforming, it gives me hope that there's a place for me to occupy that doesn't have to fit in the skinny "boy" look. also hate how that's become the standard for non-binary people. like you can present and look however you want and still be non-binary, but masculinity is just seen as the default, always.
Loved this video! I’m a plus-sized woman and I always feel like in order to look nice I have to really emphasize my breasts and hips. Recently I’ve been really struggling to find my clothing style (I’ve been getting more into dressing well) because I enjoy a lot of very feminine patterns and fabrics, but also love more masculine forms and silhouettes. This video has definitely shown me that there is room for me to embrace both
FINALLY 👏🏽SOMEBODY 👏🏽SAID 👏🏽THE THING!!!! 👏🏽It truly has been an internal struggle to feel as if the fem within me is taking away from my androgyne… which should NEVER be the case! Thank you so much Jade, I feel so validated and it warms my heart! 💜 From: (A cis gender black girl with an “i” bra cup size)
Feminity in no way takes away from your awesome androgyny! Also, you look epic :D I'm non binary and AFAB, and I like to wear soft fuzzy things and bright colours. Doesn't make me any less non binary :D
I'm curious what does androgyny mean to you? Your comment (and this video in general) is very confusing to me. I understand androgyny as a 50-50 blend of feminine and masculine traits. Meaning it's very difficult to say whether someone is a man or a woman since they can pass as both equally. And that goes for men and women. Therefore your feminity would indeed take away from your androgyny. Vice versa more masculine traits would take away from a man's androgyny. Note: I am not from the US. It appears we use the term differently. Hence I would love to hear about your understanding of the term.
Yeah! I see how that can be confusing for people! The feminine and masculine parts are 50/50 when it comes to androgynous people but I believe that the choice to lean into one or the other on any given day is what makes the difference in each person and might be what causes the confusion! Natural I can fall on the line of either masculine or feminine to people when I’m just being myself but the choice to highlight one over the other (via with my personal style choice, hair or makeup) I believe doesn’t stop me from naturally being on that line of androgynous… hopefully this helped a bit! 👍🏽
@@1hanakimi oh yeah, that makes sense. Thank you for your response. I think of androgyny as a potential that a person has due to their (facial) features. Whether someone leans in to that potential to look ambiguous is up to them but doesn't take away there androgynous potential of course. Kinda like a blank canvas that you can turn into whatever you like and how ever frequent you like. Androgynous today, femine/masculine tomorrow, and so on.
I’ve recently been wanting to dress more girly, and you saying “femininity doesn’t need an explanation” really helped. I’m just gonna wear my dress tomorrow, I think ✨
I truly think your perspective on things esp. regarding LGBTQ+ terms is _so_ important. it's also always so reflected and well phrased..idk, I kinda want to copy what you say and print it on my wall lmao. please keep on doing what you're doing!!💫
The thing with Harry is though that he fully embraces Androgyny even when he doesn't do a foto shoot, i feel like that's different to other people. Also fashion is designed to break gender boundaries, when you look on the runway lots of dudes walk around like that but you can't expect every single one of them to wear these clothes also outside of the industry
Yes, definitely. Like he dresses that way purely because that’s how he enjoys dressing. It’s not for aspiring to be as androgynous as possible or putting on a costume. For him, as he’s expressed several times over the years, if it looks good he’s gonna wear it. It doesn’t matter if it’s “women’s” or “men’s” clothes. It’s just clothes. But there are definitely other people who do it purely because they’re trying to be revolutionary or for the attention and that should be addressed.
Thank you for this video. I'm fluid pansexual black; I'd been avoiding showing my feminine elements and owning my androgeny bc of the standard projected imagery that made me feel out of place. I couldn't relate to Jayden and Styles either bc it felt "put on" - but this is a reality for some of us, one clouded in years of shame. This settles my schism. Thanks again.. I know I'm not part of your diaspora (I apologize for taking space) but this resonated too deep.
I've been watching your videos for damn near 10 years and I've never been so early to one. Ngl it feels pretty special lol. Thanks for making this cool content for all these years Jade.
I love this video. I’m nonbinary and I have a few androgynous lookbook videos, but I’m always nervous when I include more feminine looks for fear of not staying true to “androgynous style.” BUT most of my viewers are GNC and nonbinary/trans and my fears have been proved wrong bc they’ve done nothing but celebrate femininity when I embrace it. This video articulates so much that I’ve been trying to gather into words, and hearing someone else say those words is incredible validating. Will be referring ppl here in the future. thx jade.
I've been watching your channel for 5+ years now, and while I have always loved your content, I must say that it is becoming much more thoughtful and socially conscious, and I am SO here for it!
OH MY GOD... this is so true. This made me even rethink myself because I sometimes tend to associate androgyny with masculinity even myself without even realizing it,
Bruno Mars looks manufactured because he stole everything he is from black lesser known artists and repackaged it in a racially ambiguous non black bow more palatable to the American audience...hes giving Elvis. But that's a whole can I cant unpack right now.
He's talented and a good producer, but his schtick is black cool as cosplay costume without actually doing anything for black people. I call him the General Tso chicken of music, he's ok, but do you really want that every day? 🤷🏽
@@zucchinigreen I hear you... My only thing is, the million dollars that he donated to people in flint is “more for black people” (financially speaking) then you or I donated i’m sure ever. I’m not a fan of him and i’m not defending him by any means. I also think he could do a lot better at appreciation instead of what people perceive as appropriation but my thing is. Why do people always look to the next man and say “YOU HAVEN’T DONE ENOUGH”? Instead of asking what it is that YOU can do more in your own life or instead aiming to get yourself in a position where you can yourself, achieve what you feel these celebrities should be doing instead of wishing other people who aren’t even of the community to do it for you. Lastly (and this is more of my personal feelings) I just don’t think Anderson Paak who made lockdown would collab with someone who he though didn’t respect the culture. We don’t know every aspects of their life and what they contribute behind the scenes. We just see what the tabloids feed us.
@@emelle736 That's fair, but you don't need to interrogate my philanthropic history to make your point. The fact that you know Bruno donated a million dollars tells me he has a good PR agent, disposable income and is expecting a decent tax write-off. Good on him.
@@zucchinigreen I second this point. It was done in response to criticism and he knows it. Its definately a great write off. And definately probably helped some people
Alot of kpop idols are very androgynous in style and fashion and even performance And as a straight cis black female I love it.... Most kpop stans have a joke that you're attracted to and want to be & dress like them at the same time.... Also..... PRINCE 😍
I can think of many people of colour in the Business that would fit that. As you said the whole Kpop culture. But i guess that's just me. Michael jackson also in his later years.
Thank you so much for this! This has been my issue with "androgyny" (as well as what gets defined as "queer aesthetics" and "nonbinary") for years. Like I'm in the r/nonbinary or other spaces and it's so many folks wanting to look "gender-neutral," which to them means no hips, no ass, no boobs. This definitely needs to be critiqued.
also, one thing I have noticed is that when celebrities are paraded around for being masc and GNC they r still really fem like Kristian steward isn't butch
Very ironic how androgyny and non-binary presentation is and was a way to more freely express oneself without being bound to a box where there is a certain set of rules; yet it feels sometimes like the definition of androgynous has become a box that is smaller and more excluding than the masculine and feminine one. Great video - I hope we can have more conversations in general about this and also about masculinity and cis-male bodies always being the “default”. Very important to be informed on to be able to understand how women are dehumanised in society on a very base level!
this was awesome and insightful and i want to read this article now...i’ve always considered my gender expression and personality more androgynous, but due to society & the media’s depiction of androgyny for a long time i thought i couldnt call myself androgynous if i had more feminine expression...now that i’ve been embracing my feminine side a lot more lately and become more comfortable with that part of myself i totally have felt like “oh that part of myself isn’t androgynous but this other more masculine part is” but i love that this screams that that’s not what androgyny is about! it’s about embracing who we are, both masculine and feminine parts of ourselves and recognising that as androgyny...this was super eye-opening and inspiring to me. if i wear vintage skirts one day and jeans and a men’s button-down the next that doesn’t make me androgynous one day and not the other day, it makes me ME. and androgyny is part of who i am. (:
blue hoodie looks so cozy. im only part into this video but people seem to get mad when Nonbinary people allow themselves to take up space in the view, without worrying about the beholders' experience
what's appropriating about having 2c curls tho- im new to this and quite confused. I assume he's doing more than just that but i don't listen to or hear about him enough to have seen anything that off-
Doing your research and synthesizing texts to bolster your points just proves to us that you've taken the time to put out a thoughtful argument. It's not plagiarism in academia and it certainly isn't here. Thanks for sharing with us and thanks for always putting the work in to create quality content 🙌
The central problem is people just can't resist trying to get in a box and make other people say it. Be whatever you are, fuck what others say and people need to mind their business and stop trying to put others in boxes.
the thing about plus size women being hyper feminine is like... 'here's a thing that's deemed unnattractive by society. so let's EMPHASISE THE FUCK out of 'attractive' qualities.' it happens when women shave their heads too. it's cute and funky and fresh if you combine a shaved head with on point makeup, dangly earrings and super feminine clothing. but if you don't? whew boy.
Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention! I dress androgynously myself and to this point I have literally never questioned how I do that. And over time I've indeed cut out more and more of my feminity because I felt like I wasn't achieving what I wanted. I think wearing traditional "men cuts" as a woman has become so basic and normal that I feel like I have to compensate by being even more masculine. But as you said, that is not what androgynous is about! It's about having elements of both.
Androgyny by definition is a combination of masculine and feminine features and aspects of presentation. It doesn't mean "a good-looking person that can present as either masculine, feminine or neither and excel at it flawlessly in term of conforming to common beauty standards".
So many great points, excellent video! Agree so much with masculinity being the standard for androgyny and feminity being 'other'. I'm afab and transmasc, and as soon as I add something 'feminine' to an outfit like makeup or pastel colors, suddenly it's a feminine outfit instead of an androgynous outfit, no matter what else I wear. Mannerisms too, when I'm in cis man spaces I feel so much pressure to talk differently to try to not be seen as a woman, cuz one slip up and you're out.
I am just going to go share this with everyone I know, just give me a mo, because this was incredible. It explained what I had been trying to explain to myself (and others) for quite a while, Thank you!
God this video was awesome! I think another issue I see when people are jumping in and out of these photo shoots as you mentioned, androgyny becomes a fashion statement, not an identity.
I find it very interesting how gender nonconformity is different for men and women. For women it’s just existing as is aka not shaving, not wearing makeup and for men it’s putting something on like makeup. Sorry for making this very binary I didn’t know how to phrase it differently.
people see being masculine as the default. the same reason that tomboys arent really that criticized yet if a guy wore a dress in middle school hed be teased to no end.
oh my gods you said it!! this has been on my mind ever since I started thinking about my gender and presentation,, i think even before that tbh. It felt like I *had* to be skinny if I wanted to be androgynous not only because of what i saw on media as androgynous but also because of the lack of availability of androgynous clothes in my size. It was a whole journey of unpacking all the internalized misogyny and femphobia and redefining androgynous for me and all of that and it's still not over
YES! This is exactly what the world needs to hear. Androgyny is not just for skinny masculine models. Shopping for clothes is such a traumatic experience because I don't see anything that's made for me
I used to be the "skinny, white, masc" version of androgyny back a few years ago when I began my transition (I'm nonbinary). I thought I had to fulfill those roles to be valid, but I learnt that femininity is just as important as masculinity. I really enjoy mixing fem and masc things in my style, and I've been letting myself just be myself without worrying too much about how I'm presenting myself. I've also let go of the pressure to be shaped like a cereal box, I'm now visibly muscular and I have curves too. And yeah maybe I don't perfectly fit into the acceptable model of androgyny (even though I do to an extent) but like who cares???
I always wondered when i see androgynous stores why there was no feminine clothing to fit men , everything always looks like mens clothes on women models
Supply, logistics and cost vs demand, unfortunately, plus fear of big box retailers that could afford it against antagonizing conservative shoppers..
I remember that one company who said they wanted to make clothing for Enby people and then proceeded to show afab people wearing masculine clothing and it was a moment of ".....I guess androgyny is synonymous with masculinity"
I'll be honest, I don't want to sacrifice my pockets.
Some times a guy just wants to wear thigh highs, you feel me?
THIS.
"cis white women with maleficent cheekbones" soo true😭
Just being open here, I used to not like myself for not having those cheekbones and jawline because I thought that’s what made people attractive but the more I learn about this situation regarding Eurocentric features and the way society enforced these unachievable beauty standards on us the more I begin to love who I am. Just some ranting lmao :)
"Built like a ruler" 🤣..... 🧟♀️📏👀...
@@natalietorres3362 Idk if this is overstepping but I want to ask if you're a POC, because I feel like some features are demonized on us but glamorized on white people, I assume you're not cuz you mentioned how you learned about eurocentric beauty standards but I might be wrong and don't want to completely assume you're experience
@@natalietorres3362 extremely important ranting, I love it!
@@natalietorres3362 "Those cheekbones" You mean non-maleficent or maleficent look? sorry
As an androgynous person that isn't built like a bamboo rod, this video was a nice breath of fresh air.
Same.
Same🙄✋🏼
Same.
NOT A BAMBOO ROD 😂😭😭
Same 🥺
I feel like the whole 'androgyny is mainly masculine' thing always comes back to misogyny, masculine things are celebrated and femininity is not, even for cis women. For example I would say I sorta fit the 'cool girl trope', hating pink and all that and I find my self asking 'do I really feel like this of my own volition or is it societal indoctrination?' Gender is so ridiculous and confusing
It took me so long to admit and embrace my love for the color pink.
I 100% agree with you! I still catch myself thinking this sometimes. It is deeply rooted in the mind.
On the other hand, you can't extricate your identity from the society you live in.
Self-reflection is a great thing - to an extent. Just remember not to get too caught up in self-doubt. It's okay to not like pink (or to like pink), and don't make yourself feel guilty over your harmless preferences or make yourself do things you hate for the sake of wokeness. I'm not saying this is a problem you have, I've just seen a lot of people get so caught up in online discourse they forget to just enjoy their lives, and wanted to put this out there.
no masculinity in women is not celebrated
Pink is my least favourite colour until I see it in the sunset. Then it’s my favourite.
The part about cis dudes playing dress up is so true. I don’t have a problem with people wearing a dress for their photo shoot but they can ultimately take it off at the end and a lot of them are then just perceived as a societally acceptable dudes. Some of us actually present like that day to day and we can’t just turn it off. Amazing video!
Edit: I didn’t think this would get a lot of likes so just to clarify. I absolutely think that people should dress however they want and there’s a lot of cis dudes who want to wear dresses and they should! My point was more that there is a difference between people who always present in a more androgynous/gender non conforming way and people who tap in and out of it for photoshoots etc. Both are absolutely fine but it’s important to acknowledge the privilege which comes with the second one.
"Some of us actually present like that day to day and we can’t just turn it off. "
The sheer irony is that those of us who present like that day to day are call "cis", which erases the distinction between playing dressup for fun vs. authentic expression of self.
@@sorcerykid people who are transgender also aren't playing dress up. They are expressing their true self. I think that point was saying that these celebrities don't dress androgynous day to day, so they don't have that experience. They have the ability to get praise for being "androgynous" when they're not.
@@bridgdjxnfkdzkx Gender nonconforming folks like myself are not transgender (by prevailing definition at least). Instead we are called "cisgender" which suggests that my 24/7 gender presentation is not integral to whom I am. This is clearly a surreptitious means to push a unilateral narrative of acceptable gender variance, which is that of a transgender-only experience, and anybody else is just playing dressup.
The notion that gender nonconforming people are "cisgender" is not only intellectual dishonest, it causes very real harm in society by inducing a lot of youth into believing that they must "identify" as another gender in order to present as their true self. This phenomenon has become an epidemic, esp. amongst youth whose primary social interactions are in online forums, and thus not exposed to credible literature on the subject of queer theory, or just even social psychology.
@@sorcerykid Nicely said, I feel like gender non conforing people get forgotten or outright shouted down in these discussions sometimes.100% agree with everything you said. I also think increasing awareness and acceptance of being gender nonconforming will go a long way to help deconstruct a lot of gender stereotypes. Both cis and trans folk are getting caught up in this obsession with performing gender in certain overblown ways. Whilst I can understand there's a time and place for tradition, stereotypes wouldn't exist if there was no truth to them and trans people are going to be at least partly driven by a want/need to pass (understandably) etc I think we need to get our heads out of our asses a bit. You must be seeing teenyboppers running around like headless chickens on Tik Tok having an identity crisis because they have a new favourite colour whilst you just throw on whatever and give zero fucks about whether what you think, feel, like or do is gendered (that is not to say it is simple as that for genuine transpeople.
not trying to hate at all, just curious, wouldn't it actually be beneficial to nonconforming people when celebs like harry styles etc. or in fact anyone post these sorts of pics online? as in, wouldn't it bring more awareness to androgyny, and therefore make it more societally acceptable and less intimidating for others to present in this way irl?
When you brought up the exemple of unisex shoes leaning towards masculine cuts it reminded me : femininity is a singularity, and masculinity is the default. I study filmmaking and i have been taught that in narration, womanhood is a characteristic and this originated in epic tales like the Odysseus, Hercules, and other myths covering the "hero's journey". Of course this is because of patriarchy, but can explain why we have a hard time changing our perspectives. You made a really relevant video, and this was very important in my journey (as i'm non binary). Thank you!
that's cool to see that from the film studies perspective! i studied law, and quite a few policies and laws have systemically been created with masculinity and male bodies as the default. Crash test dummies, for example, are made in a male model, and for the longest time that was it. eventually they said 'oh we need a female model' to you know... make sure afab people wont fly out the window in a crash. but they just made a scaled-down model of the male model. and it isnt even required that the 'female' model is tested in the driver seat, just the passenger seat. Also most guidelines on ambient office temperature were made in the 60's when it was mostly men in the office who wore big suit jackets. This is the reason its so damn cold in office buildings- because men, i mean 'the default totally unisex androgynous person', like it best that way.
This is actually so interesting on a sort of unrelated note, because I was watching this video about the default character in tv shows being male. A lot of the times when they want to tell jokes in cartoons and etc they make the background characters that play a role in the joke white and male. Or even just the background characters in general. The reasoning for this is that if they make the character female or another race, than the audience might just think that joke has to do with the character being female or with their race. It just speaks to volume the biases against female characters and non-white characters and how they are seen in media.
@@kj9358 this
oof i want to study that too, gonna be interesting seeing if it's still like that then.
Side note : We stan enby movie makers
@@fae1984 well hell yeah we stan them but like...it’s kinda just the idea of them, right? Like please genuinely inform here but I just don’t know of any non-binary filmmakers and I’m a queer film student lol
Harry who wears a dress and the world goes insane but no one remembers Billy Porter wearing that beautiful ball gown suit dress. :(
Holy shit, I just looked up Billy Porter's outfits and they are in a league of their own. Thank you for this comment!
and harry wears the ugliest dress tbh
Oh no, I think about that outfit from time to time.
yesss i absolutely adored the billy porter dress it absolutely deserved more credit than it got. I think about it constantly when people talk about harry styles being the sort of “god-send” of androgyny
Billy Porter is a fashion icon! Don’t get me wrong Harry’s style is cool but Billy has the glitter and sparkles that I love
jade is a person who is actually woke and not just parroting neoliberal talking points. I fxk with it heavily.
Definitely she is, but you gotta check out Tee Noir as well
@@mazvitaselemani I LOVE tee Shes amazinf
Neoliberalism is an economic ideology, idk what that would have to do with social issues like this?
I think you mean liberals because neoliberalism has nothing to do with this because it's an economic ideology.
Yeah and ur the expert in that category huh
there's something about amab ppl declaring their OWN femininity vs taking on someone ELSE'S feminine identity that deeply threatens hetero-patriarchy's existence. Like our society allows for and understands using femininity as costume (ie Halloween, Vine, popularized drag culture, straight boys posting "girlfriend does my makeup" videos, etc)...but once that feminine presentation is devoid of humor, absurdity, and/or performance, the transmisogyny comes flying. Because if amab folks are CHOOSING to present earnestly feminine, that threatens the notion that masculinity is inherently superior. Or something like that, maybe.
this is simply transmisogyny!! that is why trans people who present in a traditionnally feminine way (and no matter their agab) are so bullied everywhere. non-binary people, all of them, their feminity is taken as either an argument to accuse them of faking their identity or to laugh at them/not take them seriously in who they are. Feminity has always been a target this patriachy world as we know it. People who present in traditionnaly feminine ways are always seen as vulnerable, people, often cis men, will see them as target. And then add to this the concept of passing: not passing as cis, AND looking typically feminine. That's what kills so many trans women, trans feminine people, and trans people in general.
It's a mess for amab trans feminine people, no matter what you do they have trouble. Anything you do or don't do is questioned. they search for a reason to distrust because it would be easier to write you off as a faker (no effort) then have to actually see the human. (some effort) We drive ourselves crazy trying to figure out why transphobe transphobe, it's complicated.
YES
All of this! I'm amab, grew up in a small town. I got refused jobs because the whole town had seen me with nail varnish and eyeshadows at some point. But some manly bro puts on something that to him is a costume once and now we stan? My feminine expressions got me trouble because I don't take them off to go back to being acceptably masculine.
All facts!
I've always felt that my feminine mannerisms and the way I like to carry myself can't coexist with my masculine style.... But they can! And they do!
She had me @ f**king t*inks.
Same here, I always feel so contradictory when I act quite feminine but dress in a 'masc' way.
@Aubrey Acuna together we'd create an ultimate gender expression
@@licensetochill4992 as a trans guy, i always used to feel pressured into dressing and acting masculine because i was scared of what people around me would say and it made me feel like i couldnt be feminine at all or i was just ‘pretending to be trans’. now im pretty chill, i do feminine things sometimes but im comfortable with who i am
"It's cute for a photoshoot but it's not cute when it's your identity" That really sums this all up doesn't it.
The exact same thing happened to the natural hair movement. Afro textured hair was high jacked by loose curls, soft waves and racially ambiguous textures. What was meant to empower women with hair that was the opposite of conventional beauty standards ended up reinforcing those same toxic standards.
Yes, and it is highly annoying.
I 100% agree with you. Idk if this is a reach and you might disagree, but that happening was inevitable because as a community we can’t let go of the one drop rule and a lot of us don’t want to acknowledge the colorism, featurism, and texturism in our community. So without fail once *everybody* is included the people that need it the most are excluded and no one bats an eye
Exactly.
On this note, everyone, check out RASHIDA STROBER, she is the Mother of DARKISM theory activism and is the first one to pin this therm.
She is a legend and will go in Herstory for what she is doing right now.
@@katalex8 Exactly
This also goes along the path of how black androgynous women are assumed blatantly as men whereas white androgynous are praised for “boundary pushing” and being “fashionably innovative”.
This!
Exactly!
Yup!!!
Everyone always assumes that I'm a man but thats because of the way look (I guess?), nothing to do with the colour of my skin. It makes me uncomfortable to always correct people but I don't want to change my looks either. I'm white btw
If they’re straight let’s clarify that. If they’re gay they are labeled as one of “those” gays.
Yes on the plus size points!! If we aren't showing off our "assets" (such a bullshit term in itself) and curves to be feminine, we fight even harder to be accepted, seen, and seen as valid. Now in an electric wheelchair, my disabled plus sized body gets virtually overlooked and dismissed now that I can't flaunt cleavage (outside of my home because my skin reacts to sunlight) and the shape of my body is compressed by sitting. I can't just be in the middle ground. I am not black or brown, but my body is seen differently.
"assets" = your body is a commodity and your worth as a woman is defined by the attractiveness of your body as perceived by men
it's so sad plus sized beauties can't just be humans and comfortable. the only way we can like these people if they serve a sexual need? :(((no
We need to get you a really dope veil for the sun.
All of this!
“I’m just tired of cis white guys playing dress up for clicks and then somehow redefining androgyny.” So many points were made in this video, but this line was truly flawless. Thank you for making space for this conversation.
Biological women & men are tired of being called Cis
That line wasn’t a point, it was an assertion. One which was not backed up within the video itself. They did not have anything backing that claim up.
@@theresashaw5027 lol I hope this is a joke XD
@@theresashaw5027 yeah, and women with brown hair are tired of being called brunette. We are women, not brunette women. This is what true oppression looks like
@@theresashaw5027 Lmao. Just don’t go by the term. People are going to call you whatever because that’s what humans do. Give unnecessary labels.
Those masc white girls on tiktok being defensive about calling themselves studs, threw me hard. Because growing up, there was more to calling yourself a stud than just dressing kind of masculine and the whole lifestyle was prominent in the black community.
Separately, I’m guilty of being ignorant of the origins of androgyny as we know it. I was taught that examples of androgyny were Boy George and Bowie.
This video has opened my eyes to a lot of things. I’ll have to sit with it and do some self reflection. Signs of a stupendous video!!!
@@vermill155 because white masculine women are not studs.
Same here! My friend brought this issue up to me when we were talking about Harry Styles and it was a lot to wrap my head around. Then I came back to this video and everything started to come together. I’m glad that channels like this are talking about this issue on a deeper level rather than just conservatives hating men in dresses or liberals fawning over it
i b having a gender journey this pandemic n i think the whole "androgyny is white, skinny, and 70% masculine" is a large part of my gender struggles n body dysmorphia (if its even that). ive been wanting to b more neutral or androgynous, but i feel like femininity sticks out so much more, n that masculinity is more of a default, blank slate type shit. its... interesting. like, if i wear a skirt or put on earrings, that to me feels louder than if i wear a snapback and baggy jeans. i just kinda was sitting here accepting that but fuck that 😂 thank u for the validation this friday jade
I can relate to your feeling; i too have been on a gender journey this pandemic and started using she/they pronouns however as jade said the media default is slim and as a human who is not only tall but also have some curves it is hard to see ones self as androgynous when ass you see is the complete opposite of what you are
I've thrown it out the window, I recognize that parts of me are masculine while others are more feminine, and I've come somewhat to terms with that. Im not what would be exactly labeled as androgynous, I think? But if I feel comfortable the way I am and Im not harming anyone, that's all that matters.
I wonder if the reason féminine clothing stand out so much more is the fact that men don't really wear those type of clothes? Since women CAN use 'masculine' clothes and no one will bat an eye at it, men have a much more difficult time wearing feminine clothing and no one batting an eye at it. If everyone could wear what they want, I wonder if I could feel more androgynous and even masculine in feminine type clothing. Just makes me think
I relate so much! I've been thinking a lot about why I hate the more feminine traits I have, for example my curves and the way I speak. For some reason I started to feel insulted if someone pointed some of these things about myself, because no matter how I dress, I can have short hair and wear a suit, people will point that because of my personality I am "meiga", which is a word in portuguese for someone who is loving and caring. And this is the word I've been called the most in my life and also the word that I hate the most, because in my head I hear "you are feminine = you are weak and fragile". But like, femininity is not a bad thing! I don't know if this makes any sense, I am just confused 🤦🏻♀️
bruh exactly this!!!! I still have friends who call me she/her on "accident" and im like I've been non binary for years but im so fem in appearance and also latinx so got those curves and full lips and ugh I hate it here
I've always read the white straights stanning harry styles as fetishization of androgyny especially because they don't stan for androgynous poc..🙅🏾.. who have existed across genders and sexualities forevrrrrr!
I 100% agree that black androgyny is different from white androgyny. Actually had a convo about that with a friend when watching one of your previous videos
Yes!
I'm curious (not trying to offend). How do you view black and white androgyny and what are their differences? I understand her points, but I guess I'm curious about another perspective.
@@bridgdjxnfkdzkx for one these two groups move very differently in the real world. The social structure is just diffrent
@@whyaminotoriginal okay. that makes sense
toanewday What does that mean exactly in more detail?
There's also an expectation for non-binary people to be androgynous, specifically the idealized socially acceptable form you're talking about. Like non-binary people owe gender conforming people androgyny in order to be valid.
I think this is because gender norms are strictly policed for men and women, so it's assumed that nonbinary correlates with androgyny. In fact, even in the LGBTQ community many people still conflate the terms "nonbinary" and "gender nonconforming".
I HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS, people telling me that they couldn't get my pronouns 'right' (they/them) until I dressed more 'androgynously'. It's as if they see non-binary as just another box, a third gender with its own rigid definition, when in truth, gender comes in a literally infinite set of expressions and identities.
no one respects my pronouns still because I have big full LatinX lips and obviously look and sound like a woman but I want to be they/them and felt like I had to try to lessen my naturally fem appearance
As a trans non binary person I still struggle with this
@@thekittykatie (im an enby person from brazil just for the record) i honestly dont understand why people are usind latinx since latin is already a neutral term. could you explain why you're using this term please?
The thing you said about how plus sized women's curves are accentuated a lot in the media is why I never felt comfortable when I was almost plus sized because I am flat chested and never felt represented. When I was androgynous I wasn't aware of it because I didn't know you could have a booty and be androgynous. Also I'm not plus sized anymore because I have digestive problems and now have a very limited diet as a result
So brilliant and insightful Jade (as always). I’ve always thought of you as androgynous. Not that it matters - just an affirmation 👍🏽
Same here, for suree
Same. I didn't even know there was a male, white, skinny trope but I'm not surprised.
As a non-binary person who isn’t super conventially skinny and have a more feminine body shape (larger hips, etc) I’ve always really struggled with body dysmorphia because I always felt like I had to have no curves and be skinny to fit into this ‘default’ of what androgynous people should look like. This was definitely a breath of fresh air and I’m really happy you’re giving voices to groups who are otherwise left out of the conversation of what androgyny is really about, thank you so much :)
as an afab enby, there’s an idea that if i am not masculine my trans identity isn’t valid, despite not personally identifying as transmasculine. as a non-binary person i am not someone who is “halfway to being a man”, and i have no obligation to dress masculine. though i enjoy it a good 60% of the time, it feels performative on some days where i’m only doing it so no one calls me “miss”.
i couldn’t put my finger on why suddenly people around me started appreciating harry styles androgyny while rejecting mine; thank you for putting that into words
hello i needed this i'm curvy but i usually want to present more androgynous and it feels like u have to be skinny to be successfully(?) androgynous? i always see non binary/androgynous people represented as angular, thin, white, masc. and honestly it discouraging
Same!! Representation is so necessary
same :(
same
same :(
You see that androgyny is lacking. So step in and set some trends. 🧐😏
As non binary person with a very feminine body who felt weird about not presenting androgynous enough, I thank you 💕
god same i nearly started crying listening to this because as a bigger, more feminine bodied person theres a lot of things that i've thought "i can't do that until i get skinny" and recently i've started to think that exploring my gender is one of those things... like i'm fine with she/her and a lot of my feminine qualities are things i like about myself. but when i dont perform femininity (like i wear an "unflattering" sweater and no makeup), i'm happy but the feeling is immediately followed by a ton of internalized body shaming shit so i've never really been brave enough to unpack the happiness. so yeah this helps a lot 🥺💕💕
as a cis feminine presenting person with masculine mannerisms, I feel seen. thanks Jade
Bruh, I be feelin stuck. I'm a cis woman and thought that I was androgynous just because I would get misgendered all that time. It's definitely in my facial features, but I be feeling comfortable in baggy clothes and how I present masculine mannerisms
I feel every bit of this. My favourite is when brands will come out with "genderless" clothing lines. And it's just grey/beige athleisure. And I'm like, cool, so colour + shape is only reserved for gender...coolcoolcoolcoolcool
“It’s cute for a photoshoot, but it’s not cute when it’s your identity” .. WOW yes. Such a simple statement, but so true. Thank you for this video! It helped me put my thoughts on androgyny into words.
The fat phobia regarding androgyny is so pervasive. I’m skinny and I STILL had someone leave a hate comment saying “androgyny is only cool if you’re not fat” like...okay???
@energizedbones seethe
I love this so much!! Especially when you touched on the whole "androgyny = masculine" in 'genderless' brands/stores. As a trans guy who has struggled with how I present and appear (people generally don't know whether to define me as masculine or feminine) as well as wondering if I'm androgynous at all based on the whole "androgynous = skinny, white, and masculine"- I LOVE how you focused on the definition of androgyny. Just 👏
If gender can be fluid, so can androgyny.
@Okiroshi it doesn't take years to switch GENDER, it takes years to change your body's appearance and hormones.
@Okiroshi what I meant was, you can feel more feminine, or more masculine, or more androgynous from one day to the next, so I'm not gonna fault people who wear feminine clothing one day and not the next because that would just be forcing them right back into the binaries from which they're trying to escape. Of course people who can pass as cis whenever they want will have more privilege, but that's not a reason to discredit their gender fluidity.
@Okiroshi I think you're confusing sex and gender. The latter is not biological. There's a lot of stuff online about this if you want to know more. Have a good day.
@Okiroshi Transgender people DON'T have to go through medical transition to be valid. They can remain untouched their entire lives and still BE the gender that they say they are. Just by virtue of saying they are X gender, _they are X gender._
Gender is an identity concept, identity is abstract.
Sex is biological.
Gender and sex are not the same, not by a long stretch. Being male and being a man are not the same. Being female and being a woman are not the same. They're tied but in the end one is biological and not fluid, and the other one is psychological and thus, fluid, since us humans have fluid, ever-changing psyches.
@@DUWANGlai_kangyi although i understand what you’re saying, i don’t think a trans woman would be comfortable being called male and viceversa, even if it refers to her biology
As a non-binary person, it’s been really hard to be read as androgynous with curves and a round face. I could wear the same thing as a skinny person who would be read as androgynous, but never am. Thanks for speaking on this!
Also if Harry Styles is gonna wear a dress can it at least be a cute one? I don't know anyone who'd be caught dead in that getup.
FACTS!!
i mean, it looks like high-fashion-type-shit that usually isn’t worn by everyday people lol
@@keib1418 fair
Apparently that ugly dress is a modified version of a better looking runway Gucci dress. It was modified to be more masculine, that's why they put a blazer over it. Its like they felt the need to justify a dress on a man when they could have done something more fun and exciting.
Omg thank you!! That dress was hideous imo! Why wasn't THAT the controversy?
I appreciate this so much as I am a Cis woman whose been bald for 4 years. Whenever I gain weight I feel that I have to go back to longer wigs. During quarantine and poor mental health I haven't worked out as much, gained a ton of weight and I hated how much the short hair I loved didn't seem "chic". I felt so off of my own aesthetic. I really needed this. So thank you.
Aww your beautiful just the way you are you don’t need to be beautiful to have hair you perfect just the way you are 💜💜
I needed to hear some of this so badly, I feel so insecure in my gender expression sometimes because I feel like I can never be “masculine enough” for myself as a gay woman but I’ve been working to let myself embrace my femininity while still feeling affirmed in my androgynous expression, we definitely need to be letting black and brown ppl take the wheel back in terms of society’s definition of androgyny
As someone that wants to be seen as androgynous but has plus sized curves I really needed this validation thank you
Thank you: I didn't know how much I needed to hear this. My hips and thighs have been a huge trigger of dysphoria for the last year, and I never thought about how much androgynous representation factors into that.
You know it's interesting. Because a person's "style" of dress can also change over time. For instance in elementary school I was a HUGE tomboy and I dressed to reflect that. However once I hit puberty for some reason, and started highschool, my look subconsciously changed completely. Without realizing. I became very feminine. And I've been this way ever since. So sometimes we change over time. And I think that's ok to!! Nobody is held against their will to look or remain a certain way.
"Nobody is held against their will to look or remain a certain way." I was. When I came out as trans I was forced into a double life. My coworkers were introducing me to clients, against my will, as my dead name and using incorrect pronouns. This is why transgender people become homeless, because we are bullied out of our jobs at the most difficult moments of our lives. There are different levels of abuse for trans people, lot of what we get put through would never fly for a cis person. We are severely outnumbered, that's why they can beat down harder on us. Asserting my gender to a client can get me instantly fired.
I basically live at the mercy of transphobes, even now. Clients are attempting to rename me for their own convenience. "how do you feel about emilo" ? I'm not making this up. People are horrible to me and i'm not allowed space to defend myself. It's an endless circus around transphobic people. I have no power but to endure.
@@emilyganguly277 I am so incredibly sorry to hear this. I can only imagine how difficult this is for you. I was only speaking on my own experience. But I get what you're saying. Society has a long way to go...in terms of acceptance. We are all different and that is beautiful!! Celebrate you! Be you. Do you. And I really hope things get easier...
@@emilyganguly277 wtf 🤬 your coworkers should be arrested and they are horrible people.
"I don't reject those [feminine] parts of me, they just contribute to my androgyny" ..damn. time to work on myself some more
I absolutely hate showing off my "assets" because to me they aren't assets at all. I hate having big boobs so much and all I want to do is hide them. I plan on eventually getting a breast reduction (mostly for cosmetic reasons ngl but also to prevent back pain in the future as well). I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say here as it relates to this topic, but thank you for saying all this it definitely makes me feel slightly better :)
This video came along just when I needed it. I’ve been feeling really ashamed of my femininity recently, or like it’s been holding me back from being androgynous - but Jade is right. We have the capacity to redefine androgyny and embody androgyny in ways that aren’t defined by skinny white masculinity and mass media.
PIERRE XO I would say is androgynous because most people think he's either, a lesbian, gay man, or transgender, until u found out that he is a straight Male and I love him😂😭
And his voice! Such a wonderful fusion of masculine and feminine...
I love him too!
Thank you for this. I'm nonbinary and people are CONSTANTLY trying to define me as transmasc. Like no. I'm not transmasc. I'm transgender, but I'm nonbinary. My gender expression is my own, stop trying masculinize it for your own comfort. You can call me butch if you really want, but I'd really prefer it if you would just let me be nonbinary.
Spitting facts as always. I'm someone who believes clothes have no gender blah blah but you've definitely challenged some ideas about androgyny/unisex clothes that I didn't realise were problematic. Thank you
That’s so true about plus size people. It’s like if you’re plus size, you’re only respected if you’re hyper feminine. But if you dress masculine, it’s seen as not attractive or confusing. It’s sad.
This is a breath of fresh air. When I was an adolescent, from 9 to 14, I dressed in predominantly masculine clothes. But as I got older and curvier I started to dress in more dresses and skirts, mostly because I cared what people thought of me and I associated my womanhood with feminity, which was foolishness. By my early twenties, I was a size 10, and I honestly saw so many skinny androgynous women (that were typically white) and felt I could not dress how I truly wanted to because "androgyny would be weird on me". I have a lot of internalized sexism to dismantle within myself. But I'm glad people are talking about how androgyny is seen in the media.
you’re so right, I’m both masculine and feminine and I’m curvy too, and I feel comfortable with my body when I’m feeling feminine but when I’m feeling more masculine I hate my curves, it shouldn’t be like this it sucks :(
i’m non-binary and i’m always trying to appear more androgynous, and this video made me realize i’d been repressing my feminine side, which makes no sense as androgyny is both masculine and feminine. i’ve been leaning towards a more masculine appearance and mannerisms and trying to push down my feminine mannerisms and avoid a feminine appearance. but both are equally valid and equally who i am. thank you so much for this
same !! this helped i’ve been thinking about why it didn’t feel right bc i was purposely trying to push myself to be more masculine and i don’t need to be white and skinny(er) to be androgynous :)
Absolutely spot on about androgyny downplaying femininity. Oof! What is it with the straight cut flannel? The point about thin bodies too! My only critique of your arguments might be that I am not sure we can say for sure someone like Harry Styles or other examples of white men (or Jayden Smith for that matter) in dresses and eyeliner are doing it for clicks and photo shoots, or to “be brave”. I think it is really a part of their personalities and i would rather applaud them than ridicule them. Even if they sometimes wear “normal” masculine clothing it would be hypocritical to say that disqualifies them from the identity or the space.
Thank you! I have identified as a non-binary femme and recently with the pandemic I have been dressing less femme and I have felt like this is more like basic “cis woman” comfortable clothing and it just felt like physical good but not aesthetically good. I’m glad to hear about this definition of androgynous that helps me see my dressing as more androgynous and not a denial of my non-binary femme identity. This really helped!
me loving feminine clothes (also like masculin clothes too), being really curvy, kinda thicc have strong jaw but still liking makeup and having native descent, i always felt like i couldnt call myself androgynous with how the media show androgyny... thank you for your video, i will show it around 💗 i love you, and you really inspire me to be myself.
i'm white, but i definitely related to and appreciated you speaking about androgyny only being white, thin, tall, angular, masculine,... as a transmasculine person who's also really feminine and not particularly skinny, it's so difficult to just exist. like every passing or "how to look more masculine/androgynous" video with tips for afab people mostly works on skinny people who already look pretty androgynous by default. that's not how i look and even if i lost weight, that's just how my body is built. it means so much to see plus size men existing, especially when they're also queer and gender non-conforming, it gives me hope that there's a place for me to occupy that doesn't have to fit in the skinny "boy" look. also hate how that's become the standard for non-binary people. like you can present and look however you want and still be non-binary, but masculinity is just seen as the default, always.
Thank you. As a large breasted, plus sized woman who is much more comfortable dressing masculine you verbalized so many of my inner feelings for me.
Loved this video! I’m a plus-sized woman and I always feel like in order to look nice I have to really emphasize my breasts and hips. Recently I’ve been really struggling to find my clothing style (I’ve been getting more into dressing well) because I enjoy a lot of very feminine patterns and fabrics, but also love more masculine forms and silhouettes. This video has definitely shown me that there is room for me to embrace both
FINALLY 👏🏽SOMEBODY 👏🏽SAID 👏🏽THE THING!!!! 👏🏽It truly has been an internal struggle to feel as if the fem within me is taking away from my androgyne… which should NEVER be the case! Thank you so much Jade, I feel so validated and it warms my heart! 💜 From: (A cis gender black girl with an “i” bra cup size)
Feminity in no way takes away from your awesome androgyny! Also, you look epic :D
I'm non binary and AFAB, and I like to wear soft fuzzy things and bright colours. Doesn't make me any less non binary :D
I'm curious what does androgyny mean to you? Your comment (and this video in general) is very confusing to me. I understand androgyny as a 50-50 blend of feminine and masculine traits. Meaning it's very difficult to say whether someone is a man or a woman since they can pass as both equally. And that goes for men and women. Therefore your feminity would indeed take away from your androgyny. Vice versa more masculine traits would take away from a man's androgyny.
Note: I am not from the US. It appears we use the term differently. Hence I would love to hear about your understanding of the term.
Yeah! I see how that can be confusing for people! The feminine and masculine parts are 50/50 when it comes to androgynous people but I believe that the choice to lean into one or the other on any given day is what makes the difference in each person and might be what causes the confusion! Natural I can fall on the line of either masculine or feminine to people when I’m just being myself but the choice to highlight one over the other (via with my personal style choice, hair or makeup) I believe doesn’t stop me from naturally being on that line of androgynous… hopefully this helped a bit! 👍🏽
@AK Naphtali Thank You Hun! *HUGS* 💜
@@1hanakimi oh yeah, that makes sense. Thank you for your response. I think of androgyny as a potential that a person has due to their (facial) features. Whether someone leans in to that potential to look ambiguous is up to them but doesn't take away there androgynous potential of course. Kinda like a blank canvas that you can turn into whatever you like and how ever frequent you like. Androgynous today, femine/masculine tomorrow, and so on.
I’ve recently been wanting to dress more girly, and you saying “femininity doesn’t need an explanation” really helped. I’m just gonna wear my dress tomorrow, I think ✨
I truly think your perspective on things esp. regarding LGBTQ+ terms is _so_ important. it's also always so reflected and well phrased..idk, I kinda want to copy what you say and print it on my wall lmao.
please keep on doing what you're doing!!💫
you didnt have to go this hard but YOU DID. THANK YOU
And this is why I found weird when afab people were saying:"I want to be feminine the way a men is"
The thing with Harry is though that he fully embraces Androgyny even when he doesn't do a foto shoot, i feel like that's different to other people. Also fashion is designed to break gender boundaries, when you look on the runway lots of dudes walk around like that but you can't expect every single one of them to wear these clothes also outside of the industry
Yes, definitely. Like he dresses that way purely because that’s how he enjoys dressing. It’s not for aspiring to be as androgynous as possible or putting on a costume. For him, as he’s expressed several times over the years, if it looks good he’s gonna wear it. It doesn’t matter if it’s “women’s” or “men’s” clothes. It’s just clothes. But there are definitely other people who do it purely because they’re trying to be revolutionary or for the attention and that should be addressed.
This video should be titled "Everything Arielle Scarcella wanted to say but make it not transphobic"
“It seems like masculinity can exist without any explanation or justification, whereas femininity requires it.” Thank you for putting this into words!
Thank you for this video.
I'm fluid pansexual black; I'd been avoiding showing my feminine elements and owning my androgeny bc of the standard projected imagery that made me feel out of place.
I couldn't relate to Jayden and Styles either bc it felt "put on" - but this is a reality for some of us, one clouded in years of shame.
This settles my schism. Thanks again.. I know I'm not part of your diaspora (I apologize for taking space) but this resonated too deep.
"im not psychic, but i can tell that you gonna like it" would be an amazing lyric
I've been watching your videos for damn near 10 years and I've never been so early to one. Ngl it feels pretty special lol. Thanks for making this cool content for all these years Jade.
I love this video.
I’m nonbinary and I have a few androgynous lookbook videos, but I’m always nervous when I include more feminine looks for fear of not staying true to “androgynous style.” BUT most of my viewers are GNC and nonbinary/trans and my fears have been proved wrong bc they’ve done nothing but celebrate femininity when I embrace it. This video articulates so much that I’ve been trying to gather into words, and hearing someone else say those words is incredible validating.
Will be referring ppl here in the future. thx jade.
I've been watching your channel for 5+ years now, and while I have always loved your content, I must say that it is becoming much more thoughtful and socially conscious, and I am SO here for it!
OH MY GOD... this is so true. This made me even rethink myself because I sometimes tend to associate androgyny with masculinity even myself without even realizing it,
"...with Maleficent cheekbones built like rulers."
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Bruno Mars looks manufactured because he stole everything he is from black lesser known artists and repackaged it in a racially ambiguous non black bow more palatable to the American audience...hes giving Elvis. But that's a whole can I cant unpack right now.
He's talented and a good producer, but his schtick is black cool as cosplay costume without actually doing anything for black people.
I call him the General Tso chicken of music, he's ok, but do you really want that every day?
🤷🏽
@@zucchinigreen I hear you... My only thing is, the million dollars that he donated to people in flint is “more for black people” (financially speaking) then you or I donated i’m sure ever. I’m not a fan of him and i’m not defending him by any means. I also think he could do a lot better at appreciation instead of what people perceive as appropriation but my thing is. Why do people always look to the next man and say “YOU HAVEN’T DONE ENOUGH”? Instead of asking what it is that YOU can do more in your own life or instead aiming to get yourself in a position where you can yourself, achieve what you feel these celebrities should be doing instead of wishing other people who aren’t even of the community to do it for you. Lastly (and this is more of my personal feelings) I just don’t think Anderson Paak who made lockdown would collab with someone who he though didn’t respect the culture. We don’t know every aspects of their life and what they contribute behind the scenes. We just see what the tabloids feed us.
@@emelle736 That's fair, but you don't need to interrogate my philanthropic history to make your point.
The fact that you know Bruno donated a million dollars tells me he has a good PR agent, disposable income and is expecting a decent tax write-off.
Good on him.
🤯
@@zucchinigreen I second this point. It was done in response to criticism and he knows it. Its definately a great write off. And definately probably helped some people
Alot of kpop idols are very androgynous in style and fashion and even performance
And as a straight cis black female I love it....
Most kpop stans have a joke that you're attracted to and want to be & dress like them at the same time....
Also..... PRINCE 😍
I can think of many people of colour in the Business that would fit that. As you said the whole Kpop culture. But i guess that's just me. Michael jackson also in his later years.
Thank you so much for this! This has been my issue with "androgyny" (as well as what gets defined as "queer aesthetics" and "nonbinary") for years. Like I'm in the r/nonbinary or other spaces and it's so many folks wanting to look "gender-neutral," which to them means no hips, no ass, no boobs. This definitely needs to be critiqued.
also, one thing I have noticed is that when celebrities are paraded around for being masc and GNC they r still really fem like Kristian steward isn't butch
Exactly, thank you. K Stewart isn't butch at all.
Very ironic how androgyny and non-binary presentation is and was a way to more freely express oneself without being bound to a box where there is a certain set of rules; yet it feels sometimes like the definition of androgynous has become a box that is smaller and more excluding than the masculine and feminine one.
Great video - I hope we can have more conversations in general about this and also about masculinity and cis-male bodies always being the “default”. Very important to be informed on to be able to understand how women are dehumanised in society on a very base level!
Grace Jones is the first person that comes to mind when I hear androgynous
this was awesome and insightful and i want to read this article now...i’ve always considered my gender expression and personality more androgynous, but due to society & the media’s depiction of androgyny for a long time i thought i couldnt call myself androgynous if i had more feminine expression...now that i’ve been embracing my feminine side a lot more lately and become more comfortable with that part of myself i totally have felt like “oh that part of myself isn’t androgynous but this other more masculine part is” but i love that this screams that that’s not what androgyny is about! it’s about embracing who we are, both masculine and feminine parts of ourselves and recognising that as androgyny...this was super eye-opening and inspiring to me. if i wear vintage skirts one day and jeans and a men’s button-down the next that doesn’t make me androgynous one day and not the other day, it makes me ME. and androgyny is part of who i am. (:
blue hoodie looks so cozy. im only part into this video but people seem to get mad when Nonbinary people allow themselves to take up space in the view, without worrying about the beholders' experience
Bruno Mars isn't even a drop of black, but he likes to cosplay as us lol. He be picking out them 2c curls like we don't notice.
THIS. Lmao the man was a 3 year old elvis impersonator. Of course he appropriates
what's appropriating about having 2c curls tho-
im new to this and quite confused. I assume he's doing more than just that but i don't listen to or hear about him enough to have seen anything that off-
@@parentalonion6552 They’re just nitpicking at this point.
Doing your research and synthesizing texts to bolster your points just proves to us that you've taken the time to put out a thoughtful argument. It's not plagiarism in academia and it certainly isn't here. Thanks for sharing with us and thanks for always putting the work in to create quality content 🙌
I agree. Jade's intelligence is such a turn-on and is why I've chosen to follow her. She is an excellent educator!
„They are people who can jump in and out (...) it’s like it’s cute for a photo shoot but not when it’s your identity“ !!!!!!!!!!!!
Let me have Cara in her suits, it’s one of the only joys left for me in this world 🥺
The central problem is people just can't resist trying to get in a box and make other people say it. Be whatever you are, fuck what others say and people need to mind their business and stop trying to put others in boxes.
As usual, you hit the nail on the head. Love you Jade! Hero calling out the bullshit!
the thing about plus size women being hyper feminine is like... 'here's a thing that's deemed unnattractive by society. so let's EMPHASISE THE FUCK out of 'attractive' qualities.' it happens when women shave their heads too. it's cute and funky and fresh if you combine a shaved head with on point makeup, dangly earrings and super feminine clothing. but if you don't? whew boy.
Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention! I dress androgynously myself and to this point I have literally never questioned how I do that. And over time I've indeed cut out more and more of my feminity because I felt like I wasn't achieving what I wanted. I think wearing traditional "men cuts" as a woman has become so basic and normal that I feel like I have to compensate by being even more masculine. But as you said, that is not what androgynous is about! It's about having elements of both.
Androgyny by definition is a combination of masculine and feminine features and aspects of presentation. It doesn't mean "a good-looking person that can present as either masculine, feminine or neither and excel at it flawlessly in term of conforming to common beauty standards".
🎶 Makin’ their way downtown to a TJ Maxx 🎶
💀
😂 one of my fave parts
😂😂😂😂😂😂
So many great points, excellent video! Agree so much with masculinity being the standard for androgyny and feminity being 'other'. I'm afab and transmasc, and as soon as I add something 'feminine' to an outfit like makeup or pastel colors, suddenly it's a feminine outfit instead of an androgynous outfit, no matter what else I wear. Mannerisms too, when I'm in cis man spaces I feel so much pressure to talk differently to try to not be seen as a woman, cuz one slip up and you're out.
That’s never posted on Thursday.... Same Jade same
I am just going to go share this with everyone I know, just give me a mo, because this was incredible. It explained what I had been trying to explain to myself (and others) for quite a while, Thank you!
this is actually so validating to hear, thank you for reminding us
God this video was awesome!
I think another issue I see when people are jumping in and out of these photo shoots as you mentioned, androgyny becomes a fashion statement, not an identity.
I find it very interesting how gender nonconformity is different for men and women. For women it’s just existing as is aka not shaving, not wearing makeup and for men it’s putting something on like makeup.
Sorry for making this very binary I didn’t know how to phrase it differently.
people see being masculine as the default. the same reason that tomboys arent really that criticized yet if a guy wore a dress in middle school hed be teased to no end.
oh my gods you said it!! this has been on my mind ever since I started thinking about my gender and presentation,, i think even before that tbh. It felt like I *had* to be skinny if I wanted to be androgynous not only because of what i saw on media as androgynous but also because of the lack of availability of androgynous clothes in my size. It was a whole journey of unpacking all the internalized misogyny and femphobia and redefining androgynous for me and all of that and it's still not over
"Built like rulers" 😂☠️
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Always so well said!
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO ARTICULATE ABOUT HARRY STYLES!!! you've explained it exactly!! THANK YOU
“Shackles of depression ain’t holding me .. DOWN” 😇😅 I love you jade ❤️
YES! This is exactly what the world needs to hear. Androgyny is not just for skinny masculine models. Shopping for clothes is such a traumatic experience because I don't see anything that's made for me
I used to be the "skinny, white, masc" version of androgyny back a few years ago when I began my transition (I'm nonbinary). I thought I had to fulfill those roles to be valid, but I learnt that femininity is just as important as masculinity. I really enjoy mixing fem and masc things in my style, and I've been letting myself just be myself without worrying too much about how I'm presenting myself. I've also let go of the pressure to be shaped like a cereal box, I'm now visibly muscular and I have curves too. And yeah maybe I don't perfectly fit into the acceptable model of androgyny (even though I do to an extent) but like who cares???
“masculinity doesn’t need an explanation or justification, and femininity requires it.” 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼