WORTH UPGRADING? Fanatec CSL DD vs. ClubSport Wheelbase 2.5
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2021
- This quick clip is taken from our extensive preview of the new Fanatec CSL DD available here:
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Watching this after the announcement of the 12/15NM CS DD/DD+ in 2023 - the predictions were spot on, back in 2021 👍💯
Yeah tbh it actually took me getting the dd+ to enjoy dd wheels over my cswv2.5 the 5nm dd pro I didn't like as much didn't feel like an upgrade and most who are doing the same said the same thing. The 8nm was to similiar and I'm sry but the csw v2.5 was special and had a special feel and once you are used to it. Its a hard base to switch from. Finally I got the 15nm and now I can appreciate dd wheels for what they are. Everyone goes you don't need the extra you don't need it. Yes yes you do imo dd wheels were made with the extra power in mind for the extra detail adn extra speed. You need 10 to 12nm to enjoy it and you will be in love. I'm not saying you need to use it maxed out you just need that motor to help.
The ffb will feel different anyways it's magnetic push and pull compared to a belt around an axis with a motor pulling it. So the ffb on the csw v2.5 always felt hard and strong like dense. Dd wheels feel a little more rubbery but it's the magnet feel. Def more realistic but took some time to adapt. Again now I'm in love but took that much for me to like a dd wheel over the csw v2.5 and I now get why so many others felt rhe same way testing the csw v2.5 to the dd pro at 5nm like real users. They def need more. That 7-8nm csw v2.5 has some damn strength to it lol.
This is exactly the video I needed. I bought a CSL 2.5 like... 8 months ago, so it's nice to know that I don't "need" to upgrade yet. Much appreciate the video. 👍
i think the CSL DD 8nm still would be an upgrade if you can sell your 2.5 at a reasonable price, you still should be able to get around 350 or so bucks for the wheelbase? and then it would just be around 150 new investment for the 8nm CSL DD, sounds to me like an ok deal :)
@@th3orist Oh, I intend to get a DD, just not yet. I need to get a real rig first. The rig I have is self-built from wood, so it's only designed to work with my 2.5. I'm ordering the D-Box motion stuff that comes with a free P1-X :D
Thank you @Boosted Media Clips for this video. :)
So I can keep my CSW 2.5 and wait for a hopefully upcomming CSW DD. :-)
My thoughts exactly
Yep that's me also. Not enough in the CSL DD to justify the upgrade. Come on Fanatec get that CSW DD out fast please.
I think the CSW 2.5 will have 9-12NM of torque, def not more. Fanatec would kill their own DD1 market.
@@MrMikap74 Yer that's sounds about right to me. They may have a CSL DD type option to have a standard power pack @ 12nm or with a boost kit @15nm which would fill the very large torque gap between the CSL DD boost @8nm and DD1 @20. Please Fanatec Just Do It 🙏
@@andywright2606 I hope so, but I dont think so. According to Fanatec's data moest people use their DD1's in the 9-15NM range. If the CSW DD with boostkit will offer that kind of power the price will be pretty high, because many potential DD1 buyers will buy the CSW DD instead.
Great video I just ordered one with hub, wheel and pedals. Today I just received my next level gt cockpit. I've never even sim raced before but a life long gamer since pong.
Watching your video's for the last month has convinced me I want to get into this. I just figured I'd get good gear from the start instead of constantly upgrading.
How has it been
How has it been V2? :P
@@Markok1911 hey man, everything's been great. I haven't played in a bit though as we're in the middle of a remodel. I finally will have a dedicated room for my games though.
I'm also hoping to build a PC for my main gaming and move the series x to the rig.
You perfectly guessed the future at 1:15 🤩
I like the looks of the new CSL DD.
The guy next to him is there just to say Yep periodically lol
Yep
Exactly.
I agree
That's his brother. Yep
And I like him being there to say it :)
Thank you for this. I have the Clubsport 2.5 and like it a lot. This is reassuring.
This was helpful. I got the notification for the second round of pre-orders, got busy at work, and everything was sold out before I got to log on. This makes me feel better - looks like i'm waiting for a CS DD.
It's on the site now. Same thing happened to me, was able to order today. Can't wait for Oct 7th!
@@birutaishereis yours still estimated to be October 7th, or did yours get delayed as well? My original estimated date was November 8th but it got pushed back to November 29th because of the backlog of cargo ships off the California coast
@@Khans0120 no its November 22nd now. Super bummer
Ahhhh this is the base I have I’m not sure I’m going to upgrade yet. O this is a break down of your video form yesterday. Thanks for sharing
Here we are two years on and Fanatec announces the ClubSport DD, would love to hear your comparison when you get one in your hands. Although I think the answer would be a resounding oh yeah, upgrade for sure.
I love my CSW 2.5, it’ll be difficult for me to move on unless I’m just throwing money for a higher end DD.
very good point.
It's not that worth it I think
Just two-years later the Clubsport DD becomes a reality - VERY eager for your upcoming review of the DD+ - I'm ready to upgrade my base and don't know yet if I'm staying Fanatec or moving to Simagic, Simucube or Asetek
Just saw on a Facebook Fanatec ad feed where Fanatec replied to a customer asking when the PS 4/5 version would be available saying later this year.
No indication of when maybe it will be open for preorder, price or whether Sony will dictate it must be with a wheel bundle like they usually do or it can be bought solo.
Below is the Fanatec response to the customer question,
Fanatec
We plan to ship it this year as well so if you have a PS4 or PS5 then I suggest to wait.
I also think that the CSL DD will be Fanatecs entry level wheel and can see between the CSL DD and the Podium DD1 at least one other DD with around 12nm for maybe 600 bucks
I think that most people their first entry to using a wheel for sim games normally follows a first foray of one of the cheaper to mid range offerings from Logitech or Thrust master.
I believe then those that reach a I like this but are still mostly casual or money conscious after a while are the customers that move up and upgrade to something like a Fanatec CSL or Clubsport level gear.
Then you have those that are really into it or want pro level type of gear jump in on the deep end and can possibly spend multiple thousands of dollars on their sim rig.
I think that Fanatec is just with price point and the seeing the current direction of their product lineup are really totally conceding the entry level lower very bottom line mom buys for their 12-15 year old for x-mas to Logitech and Thrustmaster.
They are targeting with this new CSL DD the budget conscious or more casual type player that is looking for the entry level DD experience but not looking to move up to the overall $1000+ expense of the more pro focused top DD wheelbases and wheel options.
Remember that in addition to the wheelbase you still have to add in the cost of the wheel and/or pedals if you do not already have Fanatec compatible units so this still overall is not really a cheap option overall.
Yes compared to other DD it is not expensive and will be the cheapest route to that platform currently.
Where this unit really shines is for current owners of the Fanatec belt drive wheelbases who are already invested in the Fanatec eco system and already own wheels and even compatible pedal sets. Then the upgrade cost to the DD platform and its enhanced fidelity is absolutely the best and most cost effective game in town.
As a casual sim racer and current owner for the last couple of years of a CSL Elite wheelbase and already invested in the associated Fanatec eco system to where all I need to purchase is the new DD wheelbase itself and under $500 for the 8nm unit even though I had not really been seriously considering a wheelbase upgrade this new offering was priced right and I do think it will offer enough added benefits to justify its cost.
I also am not one that likes a heavy FB setting and in that respect my CSL Elite satisfied my needs so spending over a $1000 for one of the podium models would never have occurred realistically. This unit I think will fill a nice segment of the market between the beginners and the much more serious offerings on the market.
It will allow the average player to get the DD precision at the same basic cost level that the Fanatec belt systems sold for previously. This is a win for the average every day racer in my opinion.
I know my pre order is already done!
Cheers Will & Tom. Awesome info. Still rockiin the CSW V2. Love it & damn thing is unbreakable. Upgrade on hold.
I got a free upgrade of 2.5 internals so I have a v2 case but it’s actually a 2.5
@@AngryAverageGo-Karter how did you get that for free
@@thalibsalam1295 I ordered it a month before they released 2.5 and they offered me a feee upgrade of internals
I didn’t notice the email for nearly a year as for some reason it was in junk but they still upgraded it for me
I wish I could of waited to get my Clubsport v2.5 and got this CSL DD.
Same, this came out right after I ordered the CSW 2.5 so I feel like a dunce. I'll wait and see if a Clubsport DD happens.
I own csw 2.5 and I still ordered the csl dd
My 2.5 sometimes makes a creaking sound but after 3 years it’s still a great piece of equipment. My goal is to have a second rig at my girlfriends, gonna rock this 2.5 till it breaks; I’ve loved it
They will discontinue all belt-driven wheelbases IMO. Only DD moving forward. Makes sense as they will want all of their rims to be compatible with all of their bases.
In one of the blog posts Thomas mentions the DD CSW 2.5 is in the works though very far away.
Agree, it makes business sense to go all DD. Having one belt driven base makes their supply chain and production line more complicated, which will make the CSW more expensive and make it even less desirable compared to the CSL DD + Boost Kit.
In Europe the CSW 2.5 is already discontinued. The Australian region is the only one still have units for sale.
Bought a CSL 2.5 to save some cash because I still had to buy all of the other gear. I'm eating for my wheel to arrive and start using it!
Just what I was wondering, as a 2.5 owner I'm still on the fence. I've pre-ordered but am very on the fence about cancelling it knowing that they both have the same torque figures it probably makes sense to wait. Ugh, still not sure what to do....
In the same boat. Talk about first world problems.
Yer I have been on the fence since CSL DD came out but jumped off on the side of waiting to see a CSW DD in the next year or so. Come on Fanatec get it out there.
Winder if this works on all games the 2.5 works with. Especially xbox seriex x playing ikder xbox one games.
I love my CSW 2.5, but I see many review of CLS DD but I'm not ready to swap to csl dd. waiting CSW DD.
I actually got a CSL Elite about 2 weeks before the DD was announced. It was an upgrade from a Logitech G920 and even though I'm a little bummed I could have waited and got a DD, I'm more than happy with the upgrade from the G920. I have it paired with a Formula V2 wheel and CS V3 pedals. Having not used a DD wheel before. What makes them so much better? I don't feel like i'm lacking much from the feedback I'm getting now. Its far superior to the G920. I'd be concerned with my poor driving skills that I'd break my wrists!
What makes them better is that the force feedback energy is not lost as it makes its way to the steering wheel shaft, in the manner that it would be when the energy has other obstacles to get by(such as belts, gears and pulleys). Those extra components wind up acting like shock absorbers so you don't fully feel what the motor is putting out. Eliminating those extra components though also decreases the number of components that can fail therefore also making the product potentially have a longer lifespan (benefit for the consumer) and also fewer warranty claims(benefit for Fanatec's bank account)
One thing that wasn't covered, and I know it's hard to directly compare given the wheels are completely different, but how about the FFB of the Simagic M10 vs the CSL DD?
I haven't watched this snippet but during the actual review he does allude to preferring the CSW 2.5 over the m10. He doesn't go into it extensively but he does on it very briefly
Good guessing
Why didn't sell the 5nm as a "csl dd 5nm" and the 8nm as a club sport dd 8nm. That would end the confusion and the complaints.
Screw it, I’m upgrading my less than a year old CSW 2.5 wheel with the CSL DD. Next I’ll be lighting up a pile of cash live on UA-cam.
Just hold for a year more. I'm sure the csw dd is around the corner.
Yep totally agree just hang in there, CSW DD is on the way within 12mths I recon. CSW 2.5 is already gone from European Fanatec website !!!
Looks like took 2 years for that 12-15nm :D my question is now is this time worth upgrading csw 2.5 to dd 12nm:)
Any chance to get one of these but with the DD Pro?
what is it like compared to the Thrustmaster range ( TSPC) please?
TM had nothing to match the CSW v2.5 and the CSL DD is better than that.
I hope they release a club sport dd in 2024 that’s 12nm
You’re wish have been granted already.
I'm most exited about drifting with this, I have the csl 1.1 shouldn't be a huge difference, but I don't like feeling the belts lol
Did you end up getting the DD?
I'm on a CSW V1, I think in my case is worth the upgrade, the jump is way bigger than how it sounds.
Me too, I bought mine in 2013 and although not broken the belts squeak and squeal sometimes, so the plan was to upgrade to a 2.5, Fanatec dont seem to sell them on the website any longer so the CSL DD seems perfect. One thing I did wonder, with belt driven wheels, does the torque output get worse with age, as belt drives wear? According to Tomas Jackermeier, the Clubsport V2 put out 75% more torque than the V.1 so either way, it will be a big improvement for us 😊👍
@@CliveLomax According to the info I gathered when I was going to upgrade to the V2.5 (or 3.0 according to me LOL), yes the motors on the V1 get weaker with wear and time.
I loved my csw 2.5, but I just tried to get my rig updated after not using it for 2 years and I can't upgrade the firmware for the wheelbase... somethng is broken. I think the drivers are messed up, because the wheel seems to be working fine otherwise, just has very old firmware.
can't find the csw 2.5 in their website seems like its been discountinued already
Would this work with all the games that the clubsport 2.5 works with?
Thanks
Hi Will great videos and a good idea to split out your opinions into clips. Just one though I had on upgrading to the csl dd from any existing belt driven Fanatec wheel base is that all the DD bases will get QR2, I guess the csl elite and csw 2.5 won’t be compatible. Could that be a factor in the upgrade decisions, Any thoughts?
Less moving parts and better encoder on CSL dd, maybe not much of a jump on feel but less moving parts is always a good thing imo.
@BoostedMedia I'm about to buy a brand new set of the V2.5+V3 pedals with a Damber Kit+ The BMW GT2 wheel for 1300€ it has not been unpacked . Brand new.
Would you say its an good deal?
Or should I look in to something else for that money?
If so could you point me out to it...
And give me links to buy the stuff in Europe.
So you can get some Affiliate money and i could support you.
Basically I would need the whole setup pedals wheel and base.
Thanks.
That sounds about right for that kit. I ordered the exact same setup plus the Clubsport shifter and paid about $1400 US, however the BMW GT2 was on sale when I purchased it.
Is there any PlayStation love on the horizon? Have the CSL ELITE & while it’s fantastic, DD seems the way to go looking forward.
Fanatec just got a deal with polyphony digital to be the official wheel of Gran Turismo so a PS version should be coming aswell
Listen i love dd wheels but if you are uses to the csw v2.5 then coming iver to this wont feel as good as expected. The clubsport feels stronger regardless of ehat people tell you. That aline makes people weird out. Every person real owner ive seen compsre all want to stick with the cswv2.5 I would have wanted to also. Now the 8nm boost kit changes everything. Then its almost worth it but even then the strengrh feels so similiar and the cswv2.5 has more detail then any other belt drive out. There is a special feeling to a good belt driven wheel imo. Something about it just feels so right. Tbh I hope we see super strong belt wheels one day just for some fun and being different. Yes dd is better but it just feels differentn the magnetic pull makes tje forces feel different. A bit more rubbery tbh instead of something solid pulling against the belt and the axis its magnetic pulls. So just have to adapt most wont tell you this I wish they did me. Tbh ill be honest there is no reason to ever upgrade the cswv2.5 unless you want like a 15nm dd wheel because thats what it took me to truely appreciate dd wheels details and power. The 8 wasnt enough to change my expereince to much 5 felt worse tbh. So yeah just want to be honest here for buyers thinking about it now because I dont want people to have regrets.
Does the csl DD support the BMW GT2 wheel ?
Of course.
It supports all Fanatec wheels from the past to the present
What about coming from a t300
Based on this video, I would definately get a CSL DD if you can wait. Pre orders show it being available around 23rd September (Australian store) however existing customers are getting first option at pre orders so everyone else won't see it as an option on the website.
I just upgraded to a CSW 2.5 (I couldn't wait for a CSL DD, given that I had no idea on availability at time of ordering) from a Thrustmaster TX (which is essentially the same as a T300) and I'm extremely pleased!! It's a big step up from Thrustmaster. Can't comment on the TS-XW though, not sure how it differs to the TX/T300
at least in Europe the CSW 2.5 is no longer available in the Fanatec store.
Oh that's interesting !!! Hoping that means a CSW DD is coming sooner than later. Way to much (price and performance) gap between the CSL DD and a DD1/2.
I'm 6 months late 🤦🏾♂️
From a technical point of view, Fanatec cannot defeat physics. Given a wheel mass and a given torque, the "more details thinking" is fundamentally wrong. You cannot accelerate more with DD or belt systems. Acceleration principals are the rules. Just a different driver (software)/sim interpretation can achieve different results.
BTW, I have a TS-PC, which has a rubber reinforced belt (internally all belts have a metal/fiber reinforcement to avoid stretch). Guess what? That's what a tyre is!!!! 😁
Do you want better tyre simulation? 😀
What about latency from mechanical slop?
It's direct, that's the whole point, you don't have any belts or other moving parts to worry about that cause losses and slop, hence why it feels more direct and feels more detailed and hence why everyone with a DD prefer it to a belt.
@@xxmrbobbxx How about tyre natural latency? Look, I never driven a DD wheel so I cannot compare, but If I were to upgrade from my previous G29, right now, this DD would be a "clear" choice (although not the cheapest solution - consider base+wheel+desk mount and a TS-PC still cheaper).
Why not clear without "" ? Because TM, perhaps also Logitech, will certanily produce something like that (perhaps same price, more torque) and this DD is not out for delivery yet. Fanatec did a move to restrict users options in the future (Fanatec ecosystem, more expensive than others). They work with YTers to get that effect - they are one part of the equation, we users, are the other.
@@jopereirapt The latency from a non direct drive motor is mechanically permanent latency due to the arrangement of parts in the wheelbase assembly to create the torque by way of mechanical leverage, belts and gears. This latency only grows with use of a belt driven wheel, for example, and the software telling the motors how much torque to generate does not take that slop or stretching of a belt over time into account. A direct drive system is simulating the torque from a racing simulator and if the simulator is simulating tire dynamics and its affect on torque output, then you have your tire stretch feel being simulated with less mechanical error due to the direct drive nature of the system. Less error, cost more, might make you slightly faster around a track, but will ultimately provide more fidelity especially at larger torque limits because that gives the best bandwidth of forces so the little details can be felt in the wheel. If you can afford it go for it, its nice, but it doesn't make anyone magically awesome and fast around a track, though it'd be nice and probably cost even more if it did 😉.
@@3dgarz I concur!
As the owner of a CSW v2.5, I recommend saving for a DD1 or DD2. (Wrote that before you said it, too ㋛ )