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4:36 This is an extremely common misconception on how Titles work. Titles in ToS randomly grant a *single* stat bonus at random when you level up. The ODDS of getting a +1 to a stat is the ONLY different between titles. For example, Combo Newbie has a *30% chance* to give +1 Strength, and 30% chance to give +1 Accuracy. The + numbers you see online are in fact a scale out of 10. NOT the amount of stats you get, but the amount of ODDS to get a random bonus +1.
This is a very well-researched video, great work! While I'm not a speedrunner, I am rather familiar with this game's combat so I'd like to expand a bit on some of the things you said about the combat. On Tech Downs: Tech Downs are quite strange in that (as far as I know), it seems to have some unknown factors as to when it actually occurs. When it comes to knockdowns that are caused purely through hits and not a forced KD arte like Beast, its trigger can feel rather arbitrary. This is speculation on my part, but I'm fairly certain that each arte has a "knockdown value" of sorts that contributes to how quickly an enemy is forced into Tech Down. For example, Colette's Triple Ray Satellite will down enemies extremely quickly (near 20 hits!), if spammed on a large monster. It's also interesting to note that some bosses can't even enter Tech Down, which pretty much makes them a joke (Plantix lol). Lastly, you only mentioned Demon Fang or its variants as a way to prevent Tech Down. Another very prominent and powerful way to do this is via Photon which is Raine's first offensive spell. This spell not only does a lot of damage, but is also a guaranteed stagger on anything not in overlimit. Another spell with this property is Absolute, but you probably won't be seeing this in a speedrun :p On Overlimit: Any enemy that has OVL will enter the state based on how many hits it takes. Each enemy that has OVL has a different number of hits they take before entering OVL. It's not based on HP like said in the video! Another intricacy about using Unison Attacks to stop an OVL is that if you do the Unison Attack instantly after OVL begins, the OVL will actually reset itself when the boss takes its next normal hit. This means that the player has to wait a little bit before using a Unison if they want to use it to stop an OVL. On spell-canceling: In the GameCube version, any spell can be spell-canceled for the purpose of canceling normal attack chains. For those who want to try spell-canceling for themselves, it's worth noting spell-canceling actually got nerfed in any other version of the game and needs 999 uses on a spell to execute. First Aid is a popular spell-cancel choice on Kratos because it's a healing spell. If you happen to press a direction while casting an offensive spell, it will actually switch your target which can obviously be a problem for spell-canceling in fights with multiple enemies. The tier of spell used DOES actually matter for canceling purposes but that's only for arte chains which I'm not sure speedrunners do with Kratos/Zelos. If anyone knows the exact factors as to how Tech Down is triggered, I'd be happy to learn! I always enjoy telling people more about this game and I've spent an ungodly amount of hours playing this game so I hope you don't take this as a negative comment towards your research. Also, shoutout to my friend Ghoul02 on the couch of the RPG Limit Break footage :)
Man it’s always a pleasure seeing your explanations but I can further explain Tech down. You were right in the aspect individual artes add different values towards tech down. It’s why for some fights I had to redo what artes I use and what’s most effective damage wise to also avoid them from happening. Perfect example Iapyx has a high threshold for it to occur and Sword Rain does pitiful damage however coupled with everyone else and it’s lock down potential you got yourself the perfect lock down tool which adds very little to tech down but the higher variants of the move like Sword Rain Alpha, Beta or even Raining Tiger Blade will tech down an enemy real quick. Oh and you will see Absolute tech down counters in New Game + runs :v)
@@JayMota16 Thanks for elaborating on Tech Down! It's nice to hear that my theory was correct. I haven't watched any NG+ runs so mb on saying Absolute wouldn't be seen in speedruns lol, I was thinking of the NG runs. Big respect for your Symphonia runs and for contributing to this video; it's genuinely pretty awesome to see Symphonia mechanics exposed to a wider audience like this.
Have you ever thought about running the game? Your knowledge of battle mechanics would probably give you a bit of an advantage over most beginner runners. I would understand if you didn't want to though, it's a very long run, so grinding out decent times would probably be hell.
@@philmur18 Horangi could probably be a beast at Symphonia speedruns if he wanted to, that would be cool to see! It's not like he's opposed to having to grind his butt off for a goal either, some of his symphonia challenge fights took an insane amount of attempts, ask him about his No Items/No damage/mania mode clear of Magnius using Regal 😂 bro probably still wakes up in the middle of night having flashbacks of getting clipped by eruption 🤣
Just gonna mention quickly that Colette's Para Ball is _not_ a spell. It's a tech that requires 50 uses of Pow Hammer to learn. Angel Feathers is a spell, though! But yes, Para Ball is ridiculously strong.
My first playthrough took me around 70 hours with me doing some side quests and getting through the story without dawdling, so the game is longer than 40 if you don't shoot straight for the finale
@@JayMota16Japanese and Americans seem to have the best speedrun times for some reason. Japanese probably because they are a very dedicated and disciplined people, and Americans probably just because a lot of us have the luxury to grind out tons of attempts, where people in other countries may not have as much time.
@ I feel you but I’m a New Yorker so I’m technically a Hispanic American. Same concept though I can turn on the Spanish whenever lol. My runs are still on the top of the leaderboard despite my focus being on law school and the runs are really optimized unless someone finds a massive skip somehow.
Hey, thanks for the video! Always cool to see our rather niche community getting some love. Jay's more or less a legend in this game. If anyone's curious about the welgaia skip mentioned at the end, I was the one who discovered that a couple years back, so I made a tutorial video in case anyone just wants to never do those slider puzzles again: ua-cam.com/video/uEjhJeSewuw/v-deo.html
Blindfolded actually hasn't been done yet. I've actually tried attempting Blindfolding the start of the game, up to the point where Lloyd leaves on his journey, but I couldn't get pass the temple with Colettes trial hehe
omg this game brings back so many memories @w@ For one, I loved that titles in this game actually did something! Two, the story, tho still distinctly tropey in some regards, was ultimate surprising and shocking in many ways. Three, the sheer scale of the game. Not just physically, but with how much content you could find in it. 30-40 hour runs just for basic story is fine, but the added content in sidequests and side stuff extended it as long as you wanted it to go. Four, the voice acting was aewsome XD
I know we're not talking about Legend of Dragoon (we should be but I'll let it slide), but I'll never get tired of your dedication to using the soundtrack. also something something tales 👍
Thank you for making this video! The tales of series is so good and my daughter is even named after one of the characters, thanks for showing more people one of my favorite games. Still won't buy it on my switch because that port is cheeks.
The combo system is even more broken in the ps2 game tales of the abyss. Almost every move launches and lets you just infinitely jungle any enemy even the larger ones. Its like playing UMvC3 and just ToDing everything off a single hit
Great vid! Just wanted to mention that the outer glow on some of the large text makes it look blurry though, like I have dirty glasses. Maybe a different effect might work better, or toning it down?
Your usage of "spell" was a bit confusing, as it differed from the games. To put it simply, special attacks with a cast time are spells while special attacks that come out instantly are called artes. (artes can also be chained, whereas spells cannot. And then there's mystic artes, which is it's own completely unrelated thing)
Swelly why are we resorting to clickbait sensationalist titles? Completely broken is… very over the top of a description for runs that don’t even have real sequence breaking occurring. Disappointed in you trading integrity in this fashion… still, happy holidays and new year.
That requires a MAXED out grade shop yet EVEN WITH HOLY bottles used for the ENTIRE game my end of game SAVE FILE STILL TOOK ME 15 hours and that's because I'll still kill the 3 Sword Dancers/Devils arm boss/arena battle enemies and that added a few MORE hours into my run same will killing BOTH Efreet and Sylph under 10x exp.
I never understood the love for this game. I owned it on the GCN, and apparently also on Steam now. Other than having some fun with the 4 player combat (which was pretty dumb since everyone ends up offscreen) it fell short. At release I played every Tales of Mothership to that point and it's still baffling. It's somewhere near the bottom of my tier list, if I had one... there's some real stinkers. I don't begrudge anyone else loving it but after the other JRPGs of the early 00s man did I ever not want to watch children talk about whether coffee was hot or not. Edit: Oh... uh... well it's still an interesting video! I like seeing the cracks in any game's mechanics!
I'd imagine it's the same reason games like FF7, SM64, and OoT get put on a pedestal: first 3D entry for those franchises. They were big deals at the time because of the graphical jump alone, so I'm sure the nostalgia from experiencing a new era of gaming firsthand has really carried on their legacy. I still fondly remember Kirby's first 3D game (Crystal Shards), the first 3D Castlevania, first 3D Metroid game (Prime), first 3D MegaMan (Legends) and even stuff like the first 3D Frogger. It was just such a crazy visual leap to go from sprites to models that all the characters and stories felt novel because of the new presentation. I know all of the games I listed aren't gems just because they're the first 3D games in their franchise, but they all hold a special place in my heart and I think that's why.
Speedrun your meals with CTRL by using my link and code DRSWELLMAN for 10% off, and go to moonbounce to sign up and join the treasure hunt to get an even bigger discount on your next CTRL order!
drinkctrl.com/drswellman
moonbounce.gg/r/eegazp5cpzp
4:36 This is an extremely common misconception on how Titles work. Titles in ToS randomly grant a *single* stat bonus at random when you level up. The ODDS of getting a +1 to a stat is the ONLY different between titles. For example, Combo Newbie has a *30% chance* to give +1 Strength, and 30% chance to give +1 Accuracy. The + numbers you see online are in fact a scale out of 10. NOT the amount of stats you get, but the amount of ODDS to get a random bonus +1.
Can you link a resource to back this up? I'd appreciate it
This is a very well-researched video, great work! While I'm not a speedrunner, I am rather familiar with this game's combat so I'd like to expand a bit on some of the things you said about the combat.
On Tech Downs: Tech Downs are quite strange in that (as far as I know), it seems to have some unknown factors as to when it actually occurs. When it comes to knockdowns that are caused purely through hits and not a forced KD arte like Beast, its trigger can feel rather arbitrary. This is speculation on my part, but I'm fairly certain that each arte has a "knockdown value" of sorts that contributes to how quickly an enemy is forced into Tech Down. For example, Colette's Triple Ray Satellite will down enemies extremely quickly (near 20 hits!), if spammed on a large monster. It's also interesting to note that some bosses can't even enter Tech Down, which pretty much makes them a joke (Plantix lol). Lastly, you only mentioned Demon Fang or its variants as a way to prevent Tech Down. Another very prominent and powerful way to do this is via Photon which is Raine's first offensive spell. This spell not only does a lot of damage, but is also a guaranteed stagger on anything not in overlimit. Another spell with this property is Absolute, but you probably won't be seeing this in a speedrun :p
On Overlimit: Any enemy that has OVL will enter the state based on how many hits it takes. Each enemy that has OVL has a different number of hits they take before entering OVL. It's not based on HP like said in the video! Another intricacy about using Unison Attacks to stop an OVL is that if you do the Unison Attack instantly after OVL begins, the OVL will actually reset itself when the boss takes its next normal hit. This means that the player has to wait a little bit before using a Unison if they want to use it to stop an OVL.
On spell-canceling: In the GameCube version, any spell can be spell-canceled for the purpose of canceling normal attack chains. For those who want to try spell-canceling for themselves, it's worth noting spell-canceling actually got nerfed in any other version of the game and needs 999 uses on a spell to execute. First Aid is a popular spell-cancel choice on Kratos because it's a healing spell. If you happen to press a direction while casting an offensive spell, it will actually switch your target which can obviously be a problem for spell-canceling in fights with multiple enemies. The tier of spell used DOES actually matter for canceling purposes but that's only for arte chains which I'm not sure speedrunners do with Kratos/Zelos.
If anyone knows the exact factors as to how Tech Down is triggered, I'd be happy to learn! I always enjoy telling people more about this game and I've spent an ungodly amount of hours playing this game so I hope you don't take this as a negative comment towards your research. Also, shoutout to my friend Ghoul02 on the couch of the RPG Limit Break footage :)
Man it’s always a pleasure seeing your explanations but I can further explain Tech down. You were right in the aspect individual artes add different values towards tech down. It’s why for some fights I had to redo what artes I use and what’s most effective damage wise to also avoid them from happening. Perfect example Iapyx has a high threshold for it to occur and Sword Rain does pitiful damage however coupled with everyone else and it’s lock down potential you got yourself the perfect lock down tool which adds very little to tech down but the higher variants of the move like Sword Rain Alpha, Beta or even Raining Tiger Blade will tech down an enemy real quick. Oh and you will see Absolute tech down counters in New Game + runs :v)
@@JayMota16 Thanks for elaborating on Tech Down! It's nice to hear that my theory was correct. I haven't watched any NG+ runs so mb on saying Absolute wouldn't be seen in speedruns lol, I was thinking of the NG runs.
Big respect for your Symphonia runs and for contributing to this video; it's genuinely pretty awesome to see Symphonia mechanics exposed to a wider audience like this.
😍
Have you ever thought about running the game? Your knowledge of battle mechanics would probably give you a bit of an advantage over most beginner runners. I would understand if you didn't want to though, it's a very long run, so grinding out decent times would probably be hell.
@@philmur18 Horangi could probably be a beast at Symphonia speedruns if he wanted to, that would be cool to see! It's not like he's opposed to having to grind his butt off for a goal either, some of his symphonia challenge fights took an insane amount of attempts, ask him about his No Items/No damage/mania mode clear of Magnius using Regal 😂 bro probably still wakes up in the middle of night having flashbacks of getting clipped by eruption 🤣
Just gonna mention quickly that Colette's Para Ball is _not_ a spell. It's a tech that requires 50 uses of Pow Hammer to learn. Angel Feathers is a spell, though! But yes, Para Ball is ridiculously strong.
40 hours? I remember playing for over 100 hours on my playthrough
Indeed! The game box itself boasts that the game has over 80 hours of content. 40 hours is really only if you're skipping most of the side content.
My first playthrough took me around 70 hours with me doing some side quests and getting through the story without dawdling, so the game is longer than 40 if you don't shoot straight for the finale
Interesting to hear Symphonia getting speed runs.
Fun fact tales of graces has a speed run bonus of finishing the game as fast as you can.
Big love from Moonbounce squad
I remember watching Jaymota grinding out runs. Brings back pleasant memories.
Shoutout to Jaymota!
8:35 How did I never know this glitch was a thing xD
You probably played the game for fun?
I wasnt expecting to see a DOMINICAN holding the record, holy shit.
Did you expect anyone else to have it? :v)
@@JayMota16 A Japanese dude
@@JayMota16 Loco tú ere un criminal.
@@JayMota16Japanese and Americans seem to have the best speedrun times for some reason. Japanese probably because they are a very dedicated and disciplined people, and Americans probably just because a lot of us have the luxury to grind out tons of attempts, where people in other countries may not have as much time.
@ I feel you but I’m a New Yorker so I’m technically a Hispanic American. Same concept though I can turn on the Spanish whenever lol. My runs are still on the top of the leaderboard despite my focus being on law school and the runs are really optimized unless someone finds a massive skip somehow.
I am a bell ringer, and I am glad I got this after I got my new desktop. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!
Hey, thanks for the video! Always cool to see our rather niche community getting some love. Jay's more or less a legend in this game.
If anyone's curious about the welgaia skip mentioned at the end, I was the one who discovered that a couple years back, so I made a tutorial video in case anyone just wants to never do those slider puzzles again: ua-cam.com/video/uEjhJeSewuw/v-deo.html
Another new DoctorSwellman video in 2024?!? WE ARE BLESSED
Very cool! Played this game casually with a friend when i was younger
YES, another Doctor Swellman video! Perfect to end the year off! Thank you again, please keep making more content! I love the tales of series!
This video gave me goosebumbs. ToS is one of my most fav games of all time and watching this was just such a good time. What a swell video
The fact that you choose legend of dragoon music gets an instant like
Great seeing some Symphonia content coming up. One of my fav. games of all time, has been one of my childhood games back then.
But what’s the blindfolded record?
Blindfolded actually hasn't been done yet. I've actually tried attempting Blindfolding the start of the game, up to the point where Lloyd leaves on his journey, but I couldn't get pass the temple with Colettes trial hehe
//SUMMON @VIEWERS BUBZIA
I'm pretty certain the game pronounces the summon names in the cutscenes, but I could be mistaken as it has been many years since I played the game.
omg this game brings back so many memories @w@
For one, I loved that titles in this game actually did something!
Two, the story, tho still distinctly tropey in some regards, was ultimate surprising and shocking in many ways.
Three, the sheer scale of the game. Not just physically, but with how much content you could find in it. 30-40 hour runs just for basic story is fine, but the added content in sidequests and side stuff extended it as long as you wanted it to go.
Four, the voice acting was aewsome XD
I love this game. Used to play it coop with my brother all the time. We also played through tales of the abyss together
I know we're not talking about Legend of Dragoon (we should be but I'll let it slide), but I'll never get tired of your dedication to using the soundtrack.
also something something tales 👍
Legend of Dragoon never dies
@@DoctorSwellman In Monoxide We Trust
Leets gooo, i love the Tales series
welp didnt expect to see a video about that game
got about 700 hours in it lol
Kickass video, my dude! First time I hear about this game!
Man I've seen this video's thumbnail change like 5 times 😂😂
Funny this vid came out as I am about to beat this game for the first time. I’m enjoying it a lot.
My daughter name is literally Presea. This is my favorite game of all time
Thank you for making this video! The tales of series is so good and my daughter is even named after one of the characters, thanks for showing more people one of my favorite games. Still won't buy it on my switch because that port is cheeks.
Lmao the protein to calorie ratio of those protein bars is awful
top tier RPG speed coverage as always doc
The combo system is even more broken in the ps2 game tales of the abyss. Almost every move launches and lets you just infinitely jungle any enemy even the larger ones. Its like playing UMvC3 and just ToDing everything off a single hit
New Dr. Swellman video..
Yeah well I beat Abyssion in 00'34"30 so yeah
man i love this game so much. one of the best rpgs ever made
its funny how the speedrun team (aside from lloyd) to me would be the worst team imaginable lol
Great vid! Just wanted to mention that the outer glow on some of the large text makes it look blurry though, like I have dirty glasses. Maybe a different effect might work better, or toning it down?
Oh no a speedrun video I have to watch this immediately 😅
YES DOCTOR GIVE IT TO ME
One of my favorite rpgs. Still got an original cd for my gamecube ♥
Your usage of "spell" was a bit confusing, as it differed from the games. To put it simply, special attacks with a cast time are spells while special attacks that come out instantly are called artes. (artes can also be chained, whereas spells cannot. And then there's mystic artes, which is it's own completely unrelated thing)
Is that Castle Bale from legend of dragoon at the beginning 👀
Insta like for the Basil bgm 💪🏻
Still holding out hope for a LoD remaster. I can dream right?
big AMEN to that brother 🙏🏻
my childhood
DEMON FANG
5:42 this isn’t an exploit. This is a base mechanic. It’s why it doesn’t apply to advanced spells.
Swelly why are we resorting to clickbait sensationalist titles? Completely broken is… very over the top of a description for runs that don’t even have real sequence breaking occurring. Disappointed in you trading integrity in this fashion… still, happy holidays and new year.
That requires a MAXED out grade shop yet EVEN WITH HOLY bottles used for the ENTIRE game my end of game SAVE FILE STILL TOOK ME 15 hours and that's because I'll still kill the 3 Sword Dancers/Devils arm boss/arena battle enemies and that added a few MORE hours into my run same will killing BOTH Efreet and Sylph under 10x exp.
Vegh moment™
That's on NORMAL mode as well a mania mode file would take me even LONGER.
I never understood the love for this game. I owned it on the GCN, and apparently also on Steam now. Other than having some fun with the 4 player combat (which was pretty dumb since everyone ends up offscreen) it fell short. At release I played every Tales of Mothership to that point and it's still baffling. It's somewhere near the bottom of my tier list, if I had one... there's some real stinkers.
I don't begrudge anyone else loving it but after the other JRPGs of the early 00s man did I ever not want to watch children talk about whether coffee was hot or not.
Edit: Oh... uh... well it's still an interesting video! I like seeing the cracks in any game's mechanics!
I'd imagine it's the same reason games like FF7, SM64, and OoT get put on a pedestal: first 3D entry for those franchises. They were big deals at the time because of the graphical jump alone, so I'm sure the nostalgia from experiencing a new era of gaming firsthand has really carried on their legacy. I still fondly remember Kirby's first 3D game (Crystal Shards), the first 3D Castlevania, first 3D Metroid game (Prime), first 3D MegaMan (Legends) and even stuff like the first 3D Frogger. It was just such a crazy visual leap to go from sprites to models that all the characters and stories felt novel because of the new presentation.
I know all of the games I listed aren't gems just because they're the first 3D games in their franchise, but they all hold a special place in my heart and I think that's why.