Carbon method 9 months later
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Has everyone been lying about Carbon Method and the Carbon Coat product? Is it snake oil? well, in this video I share my experience with it over the last 10 months. You can come up with your own opinion.
#carboncoat #carbonmethod #tools
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Regarding the Hammer Jointer/Pllaner, if the board is as flat as you say it is, then you've pushed all the atmosphere out from between the table and the board (it's commonly called creating a vacuum). That means you have the entire weight of the atmosphere pushing down on the top surface of the board. Of course it's going to be hard to push. You can get the same effect with hand planes, no matter how well the bottom is waxed.
That's exactly why stanley started making hand planes with corrugated bottoms.
This is the video I've been looking for. Thanks!
thanks for the follow up man! ordered mine 6-7 months ago and still haven't opened the box
I stared at the unopened box for a long time thinking it would be a long arduous process but it was insanely easy and I should have done it the day I received it.
when I purchased my Sawstop PCS, the day I removed the protective oil/paper I used 4 coats of Carbon coat on it. 5 months later it looks amazing like yours. Before I was waxing my old saw sometimes weekly, paste wax is a pain. I use the carbon glide spray about once a month and still getting great results from it. it will be nice to see how long this carbon coating last.
Glad I came across this. I'm a few weeks away from setting up my new Harvey saw and plan on applying 3-4 coats of the Carbon method right off the bat. Can't hurt to try it on my older Hitachi table saw as well.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for sharing the results. It seems to have definitely done the job. Definitely going to try it out, thanks for sharing Jason!!
I have tried this to eliminate rust on my sawstop table saw but despite goint through the whole process twice it hasn't fully elmininated a rust problem for me. I have reached out to Carbon Method and they don't have answers either. Admittedly it is a tough ask for the product because I can't control the humidity in my saw's location but it has been less effective than I had hoped. Much better than it was but certainly hasn't eliminated the maintenance.
Jason, felder/ hammer sells a coating from Europe that clean and protects, works wonders. Leaves the surface very slick it’s called “Silber Gleit”.
Try "Silbergleit" just a small amount on a piece of cloth once in a while and wipe it on the machinebed. It is used widespread in european woodworking shops. Works amazing on planers an jointers. After applying hold the wood tight, because it might slide like an egg in a teflon frying pan.
I also purchased the kit after seeing your first video but haven’t gotten around to applying it. (Bonus, they are from my hometown!) Sounds like a good task for this weekend; not that it even takes much time. Thanks for the reminder!
Thanks for your review.
My pleasure!
Boeshield rust free also made my tool very dark. Not sure what’s going on. Would be nice if you can make a video about it.
Anyone use this product in a garage that’s not climate controlled? I think that’s the real test. Good video.
I live in the hot, muggy, rainy Southeastern USA and even with Boeshield, Paste Wax, etc have to deal with rust nearly weekly. It's been about 30 days since I did the process from Jason's video and I haven't seen as much as a speck of rust forming anywhere on the cast iron. Who knows what it will look like in 6-9 months from now but so far it's been worth it for me.
I live in Central Florida. WD40 has been more than enough to keep my cast iron rust free. Obviously, the more you use the surface, the more often you'll need to re-apply it, but it takes seconds.
@@Toetag_The_Great I'm in Central Florida as well. Are you applying the WD-40 as a rust preventative? What's the process like? I've honestly never even though to use it that way, only as a way to help remove the rust.
@@CordellWoodworks can confirm my shop is often in the 70s as far as humidity goes. I was always fighting rust with just paste wax, then boeshield and wax. I’ve had carbon coat on for 3+ months and not a speck of rust. Bonus my saw has been much slicker than it ever was before. I really do think there’s something too the little graphite pieces filling in the poors of the iron helping me with the big rust, but more importantly the little speckles.
@Cordell Woodworks I use the method Bent's made a video about. 3m red abrasive pad with my orbital sander. Slow passes in 2 directions. Then I wipe it clean and the impregnated WD 40 has been working great. My shop is enclosed, but moisture in the air here is high and it was a pain before. This is on my tablesaw and bandsaw
Although I don't have that jointer/planer, my theory is not that you have 'friction' on the outfeed table, you have 'surface energy' (kinda/sorta similar to 'surface tension' with liquids - think glass/water/glass type tension). Not sure if 'surface energy' is the correct physics term. Your wood surface becomes near perfect after going across the cutter head. Each time you add another coat of Carbon Method you make the outfeed bed even smoother/more perfect/glass like. Perfect against perfect/smooth against smooth creates 'surface energy' and it feels like friction in that it is harder to push the perfect board across the perfect outfeed. Not sure what the solution might be other than having an 'imperfect' outfeed table (some sort of micro ridges parallel with the length of the outfeed table?). I suspect that a coated cast iron surface seems like an air hockey table in that it essentially is. . .the wood piece isn't perfect and there's a tiny air gap between the imperfect piece of wood and the near perfect/slick coated table surface.
I think you may be on the right track here. Have you ever been trained to use gage blocks? They are a precision setup tool used for lots of things in machine shop for setting up tools and jigs. They have very finely finished, smooth and flat surfaces. They have this interesting property that you can build up a stack of them by a technique called "wringing" them together. They stick together very firmly without any adhesives or magnetism. Just two finely finished surfaces brought into close contact in such a way as to exclude air. There are several theories about how this works, exactly, but the basic idea is that it only works if the surfaces both have a very finely polished, flat, and smooth finish.
I've seen shallow parallel grooves cut into the bottom of a (hand tool) jointer plane, and I believe it MAY be for the purpose of reducing this effect as a source of friction in the jointing operation. I don't know that for a fact, it's just what I've heard those grooves are for.
A freshly jointed surface will be about as perfectly flat and smooth as a piece of wood can get, and this is what you want, so maybe the solution is to modify the surface finish of the jointer outfeed table. You pointed out that the machining marks are visible on the table. It is possible that modifying the "rough cut" in the fabrication of a table could be modified in some way to reduce this effect without creating a final surface configuration that would damage the newly jointed piece of wood.
I believe you mentioned that the maker is a buddy, or at least you are on speaking terms with him. Maybe you could suggest that he look into this and possibly offer to test some experimental versions of the outfeed table top.
all you need is to put a mirror polish on the jointer and then add the glide.
Will the Carbon Glide decrease friction on table saw blades and router bits?
Im 71 and Iv never worked in a work shop like this, he spends most of his time cleaning and polishing his gear . Does he actually make anything?
Tried the carbon method. Looks great until after some use. The scratches you end up getting actually make it worse to use. I end up trying the carbon glide and it helps slightly but not much. The time I spend with it makes me want to go back to the wax because that at least was easier for me instead of constantly trying to get rough scratches out.
Surely we need to consider the freshly exposed timber (after passing across the cutter) may be leaving resin deposits on the out feed table which is going to create friction. Not sure that any product would improve this. I have found the outfeed is always an issue more so than the indeed for this reason. In effect - what is being left on the table (residue) rather than what is being removed (any coating applied)??
I use automotive car wax, maybe every two or three months. Works incredibly well and is cheap. I find that it works far better than paste wax, and a lot of people already have some in their garage!
Hi, just as a friendly remember and for those unaware - be sure it is a non-silicon wax - couple years back I was careless on cleaning / polishing the table saw and bandsaw and had finish problems until I re-learned that silicon give you that 'fun-fun' fish-eye problem.
I'm really glad that you shared with us your thoughts about this product after 9 months especially because having watched your video and many other Maker's videos on this, i decided to bite the bullet and purchase the whole kit. Now i've not have the chance to put it to good use as of yet but I feel confident that when I do im not going to be disappointed at all with the finished product and the longevity of it !!! As always buddy 💯% 👍 🇬🇧.
Don’t waste your money. I too bought in on it. Not only applied it once but twice 6 months apart following the directions. Garage is not climate controlled. Gone for the weekend and our dog sitter came in and out through my garage. Had some drops of water on the table saw from the garage door opening, and completely started to rust over after 3 days. Not just spots, but bright orange, deep rust spots. So deep in fact that I have spots on my table now after having to re-clean and sand it down and stopped before I started to wear down the surface. I am in the Denver area where the air is very dry. Product is worthless.
Jason, I sure hope you are not jumping on the "Harvey" bandwagon on the new table saw and band saw. Maybe Hammer of Felder? Regarding the table surfaces on the Hammer, my A3-31 was a genuinely a nice machine, but my Felder AD-531 is awesome. The Felder's tables seem to be of a better grade and/or are milled to a finer surface. Either way I don't remember having the same issue you are having with yours. I did get the extension legs that are a game changer for longer boards that other machines don't offer.
Great content and thank you for your service, both in the military and having to work with Sedge, LOL. 🤣
Seriously, much respect for you both!
All the Best,
Chuck
Definitely not! I am switching to the Hammer K3 and the N4400
What's wrong with Harvey table saws? I have 1 and I am very happy with it. Not a fair comparison. Felder is on another level that most of us hobby woodworkers don't have the space or budget for. Looks like the trend is moving towards Felder for the UA-camrs... Bents, Hooked On Wood and Finished Carpentry. Good for them and continued success for them as well.
@@stevenmasterson5871 I'm sure your Harvey is a decent enough machine, but it is just another Chinese mass-produced product marketed as affordable quality. Affordable maybe, quality not as much as advertised. If you look for honest UA-cam reviews, you'll find that many aren't as impressed with their Harvey machines as they had hoped for. A good friend of mine that is a very experienced woodworker and knows machines extremely well has a similar opinion of his Harvey. Remember many people that review products, especially technical and/or complex machines, don't have a clue what they are talking about. They are just excited to get a new "Harvey", you know, the one the internet is all a buzz about, and couldn't tell you if the thing was plugged in or not. Now is a Harvey better than any other Chinese made saws like a Jet, Grizzly, Laguna (Taiwan), etc., I don't know. That’s why when I can I buy Sawstop (Still U.S. made but owned by TTS which also owns Festool), Felder, Festool etc. Quality costs and I'm not supporting China when I can avoid it, because it really is self-defeating whether anyone wants to admit it or not.
All the Best, Chuck.
You realize SS is made in Taiwan @@toolchuck
Can you still use slick kote or glide coat over this system on occasion?
About the friction on the outfeed side of the joiner, knife-makers long ago began to put hollow-grinds in their blades just past the cutting edge to allow for air to get in enough to break up the surface friction. I wonder if such a thing would be practical on an outfeed?
Jason, have you ever done a build video or spoken in depth about your Incra router table setup?
That would be awesome!
Any transfer to the wood????
What I do, with my Harvey Jointer/Planer combo, is, I sit on the board and use a come-along wrapped around a pole at the end of the other bay of the garage to pull myself across the table. That way, the come along is doing all the work & I do not have to push down on the board, gravity pulls me down on it to keep it nice and tight to the table top.
When I get to the end & the board turns to a fun sliding board down to the floor, I know it is done being jointed or planed.
Please let us know if the wax they are working on helps the the Hammer jointer surface it’s my only issue with my machine
Has anybody tried good old fashion Elbow Grease?
Just asking. 😎
Sheesh Jason I was scrambling to cancel my order from earlier this week until I got 2mins in 😂😂😂
Thanks for the follow up!
Thanks for the information
Cool story Jason. What I’m curious about…Why’d you sell the table saw then? What’s next, the Hammer? Coincidence or…CARBON COAT CAST IRON CONSPIRACY! 🧐🤣
What brand of tablesaw and bandsaw are you getting?
Good intel thanks.
Wow, I get the same kind of results with a different, far less expensive product called paste wax
1 application in 9 months?
I used paste wax sometimes weekly it never last very long.
@@gulzeb yep, works just fine
@@Danko88 I wax mine about once a year and they are rust free. Now, mine are kept in a shop and not an open area or garage with the doors opens all day long but, wax has been doing its job for me for over 40 years. There's always someone wanting to sell magic snake oil systems for $50-100
@@airnashville3883 Same here. I had to put my table saw in storage in a tent outside through the super wet winter we got in southern California this year - so I had to clean up a little rust after that. But when it's in the garage - I'll wax like every 6 months. No rust ever.
YOU ARE SUCH A TROLL!!! Just kidding, kind of. I literally just ordered the carbon method for all my cast iron machines (table saw, bandsaw, planer, jointer and lathe). I was terrified that you were going to report back that it failed or had actually made your surfaces worse over time.
Glad to hear it’s holding up to its claim. I can’t wait to apply it to my tools!!!
Why new tablesaw n bandsaw?
Padre wax
new table saw??
When I read this on the Carbon Method, "Carbon coating is the future of nanoprotection: a molecule-thin layer of diamond-hard material" it makes me nervous. I guess I've read too much about Graphene Oxide and how it can enter a human body. Anytime I see nanoparticles in a product I steer clear of those products.
To expensive. Just get some spare wax.
Not quite sure why such a clickbaity approach to this video though. I mean, I guess it helps with views, but it was a bit off putting for an otherwise really great channel.
Jason, Carbon Coat has the same effect on my 8” Grizzly jointer which has a total bed length of 72”. Being an old mechanical engineer I’m pretty sure what you have here is just a matter of physics. On the outfeed side you’re pushing a freshly planed, very flat surface across another very flat surface. A vacuum has formed between the two surfaces making it a friction fit. Think suction cup. A great solution might be for the manufactures of these machines to put small through holes in the outfeed table.
Funny you say that I remember seeing some planers in the past that had grooves about a 3/16"deep and wide spaced about a 1/4" cut into the length of the out-feed table. Always wondered why, this might be the reason.
Thanks and All the Best, Chuck.
I applied Carbon Coat about 5 months ago and it looks great. I live in Florida and do not keep my shop (garage) environmentally controlled 24/7 but only when I am in the shop. This stuff works great. I use it on all my tools.
👍👍
Because the blades are your pushback point, those blades spin into your work in a wide dimension… you can have a lawyer of butter on the outfeed it is still not going to remove the force of the bladed pushing the work back at you… simple physics.
I too was curious about this product. Thank you for the unbiased update. Love this channel.
How does it compare to glidecoat?
Thanks for follow-up, I actually purchased carbon coat having watched your first video, but hadn’t set aside time to apply - now I have more motivation to get it done - Videos are always very professional and informative!
great follow up. They just sent me a full kit, about to do a video as well. I desperately need this. The humidity in coastal NC is insane, my tops rust just looking at them. You video has given me great confidence in the product.
For decades all I have done is once a year (maybe) I use 0000 steel wool and paste wax. I have never had any problems with tool maintenance or finishing problems. What is the advantage of this method? Curious to know.
I've had good results using LPS-1 on the Hammer J/P beds. I agree with the others here who have mentioned there may be some vacuum effect going on at the outfeed. Great video, thanks Jason !
Ooooooohhhhhhhh daaaaaaaaaamn #1 🏆
Congratulations 🎊🎈🎉🍾
Thanks for the followup, looks like a great product. Looking forward to seeing how that wax turns out.
Seems like an impossible task to get rid of friction with the newly cut surface. The moisture in the fresh cut surface would be quite difficult to mitigate. You won't see it on any other machine because there is no machine that exposes a large fresh cut surface area. And as someone else mentioned earlier, a product would have to battle residue left behind on each pass. Good luck to anything that could solve this issue. Great videos!