JD the way the narc communicated with me had really bad influence on me. Sometime I see myself hurting someone's feeling by making bad jokes. I'm having hard time trying to fix myself.
No, no Andrea. Letting what they say lower your emotional level to theirs is what lowers you to their level. But keeping pithy and lighthearted, essentially floating above while turning their own language against them is...FUN! 😎
It's "CRAZY" how universal narcissistic traits actually are. Once you can recognize their behaviors and you educate yourself, the more empowered you become.
I pray you have learned from all of this. No one that abuses you is worth your time. My Narc will be back to try & hurt me more. Changing door locks etc...
Ahh, yes. Double meanings and misgivings. My narc-o-mom used to say "That's not what I meant", or "You misunderstood me", or "What on Earth are you talking about", or "You're imagining things" ...every time I tried get clarity on what she said. It literally drove me to a sort of insanity for many decades. Now I know and it's crystal clear what monsters narcs are.
"Emotional invalidation is the invisible cornerstone of emotional abuse and dysfunction...it has to be there. and it has to go unnoticed " THIS put's into words what I have been trying to describe for so long. I used to refer to it as it's as if they are always saying emotionally abusive things with "Plausible Deniability" worked in so they don't have to be accountable when you attempt to address the issue.
Maya Angelo said this very weltl : "You can forget what people do, you can forget what people say, but you will never forget how they made you feel." I might not Have the exact words but they're close and its the same as Scott expresses so well.
Christine Miller, " I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel," (Maya Angelou).
this was spot on..communication with a narcissist? like talking to a wall. Don't you dare have any emotions to the fact they ignore you or whatever other kind of head game they are playing, because THEN you are crazy. Sums up my experience with NARCS
One of the most frustrating thing about narcissists is that they refuse to communicate directly to fix a problem. When any attempt is made to discuss a matter, they will not engage in discussion, through rage to divert attention from it. I have many examples of actions the narcs took that they told me they were not interested in doing, when I suggested them, but I found out later that they did with someone else. The made sure I knew they did it with someone else as though we never discussed doing it. This is a very subtle covert way of showing us how insignificant we are and how much more they like someone else.
From my own struggles with cluster b personalities they look for a response of any sort. I don't give them a reaction to utilize. Healing from emotional distress of any sort takes time. What worked best for myself was to be by myself. You will discover some things about yourself that you never understood before. Thank You for your videos and be easy on yourself.
I have a co worker I rejected. He asked for my phone number when another co-workers was leaving. I never called him He said people who work this job are not confident and he will only work there no more than a year. It's been a year and a half. He's a nice guy. But loves to talk. I totally ignore him daily. Last time we spoke. He told me he was at a party and he couldn't talk to a girl he likes. Says alot.
Nothing they say is from the heart. That would make them look vulnerable and weak. They lie to you and themselves about how important you are to them in order to maintain control of the situation.
nailed it...emotional invalidation is deadly...a silent killer, because you don't received what you are entitled to based on the relationship, like mother/child * husband/wife * friend/friend They not only take from you your emotional strength that you (being relatively normal) will naturally give, but they don't validate you as well, so your needs, wants, expressions, offensives they are oblivious to and they go unnoticed, or worse they are met with indifference. They don't understand what your problem is no matter how clearly you explain it. They have an inward mechanism that shuts down when the subject turns from them to you. They try to hide the fact that they have no time for you, but the glazed over look gives it away. After awhile you can't figure it out yourself anymore...'am I just being emotional, do i have a problem, they are making so much sense right now and Im the one going crazy..." But the reality is they are incredibly self immersed and stubborn that you will never win because they will never move. They are the brick wall and you are the one hoping that some where there will be an opening in the wall, so you try and try , eventually you realize that it is a brick wall period and you are the one getting injured expecting some normalcy. To try and understand this kind of person is like trying to solve a rubik's cube blind folded...impossible!
CrownofThorns - Inward Mechanism! That's 1 of the top issues, no one else has referred to in videos.. or at least as you described. Oddly my Narc, loves to hang with me in spite of the merry go round salad chat. Will interrupt half way thru a sentence by asking a question or changing the subject... so rude.. and the questions might be answered if they/he would shutup & listen, allowing to complete the thought I was saying. He stated once finally after 8 yrs of acting like mental block listening, that he has cognitive issues (A.D.D.), but I wonder if it was true (seems like it is) OR, an excuse for ignorance. Responses come anywhere from 15 minutes later (as if they thought of this topic fresh off the top of their minds) to almost 3-5 days later as a new topic, even after being hashed over before.
Brick Wall! LOL! Exactly. Quietly Stubborn impasse. No acknowledgement of what was just said, because it was too much better than they can comprehend. Just wait for it to surface later as if they said it 1st. Brick Wall when they are wrong & pointed out for it. YOU WILL NEVER GET " I AM SORRY".. I WAS WRONG, NOTHING TO VALIDATE WHAT THEY DID. ONLY WHAT YOU SAY AND DO - IF ANGERED, YOU ARE CRAZY! THEY ARE RIGHT. WHY SAY SORRY WHEN THEY THINK THEY NEVER DO THINGS WRONG OR ANTAGONIZE YOU TO CREATE DISHARMONY.
They apologize for dumb things that don't matter a lot so when they do something wrong and don't apologize for it, they can recall how they always are apologizing. They fake mock themselves so they can switch to mocking you. They will also ask for advice or complain and then tell you your advice is wrong. They fake sick and injuries a lot. I.e. They know you like to walk 2 miles so they ask to join you and 1/4 of the way, they say their foot hurts. They won't let you keep walking though. They want you both to stop. They won't be sick or hurt when they have a special occasion. They'll ask for advice and then tell other people you are actually judging them and always trying to tell them how to live!!!???? Just a few examples 😢
I dont know if this is what you are trying to say Scott, but my ex used to triangulate me with almost everyone she met, her boss was hitting on her, her personal trainer, her cousin, she told me situations that made me doubt if she was actually having affairs with other people or not. Im not a jealous guy, but the way she told me those things, always made me feel bad and suspicious. I didnt know whats going on. So one day i told her this, and of course, i was being crazy, because she only told me that because she trusted me and i was her boyfriend and she felt comfortable doing so. For her, the information was something natural and innocent, and i was the crazy one because i thought she was trying to hurt me. They always say things, covertly, and when you confront them, they always remove the bad intentions from it and make it look like a small thing. That is abusive because it invalidates your feelings.
Jorge Campos you described very well what I experienced in my relationship. Narcs are good at manufacturing jealousy. They can obtain many points against their victims calling them untrusting, crazy, insecure, unhappy about themselves, unstable etc... For years I was the crazy one imagining bad things, then people showed me evidence, very easy to find evidence; it's just that I wasn't looking for it. Guess was happening now? Narc is saying that I am resentful. Resentful for having found out that he was a serial cheater for 24 yrs! With every available woman: friends' wives, neighbors, waitresses, shopkeepers, dozens of hookers. Undeniable evidence. Now I am the problem because I'm resentful. And sometimes my son repeats his words, this hurts me even more. Nobody believes what I went through: I wasn't suspicious, I was right.
I had a very similar experience. My ex's landlord was a former ex that was triangulated, former wife was kept in touch with, former ex was a massage therapist that she used to recieve massages from and tell me...inappropriate things. Honestly, I would rather not even know about the latter. It was alluded to that I was, "jealous," but my ex was, " abnormally not jealous." This was not true. My ex was very jealous, jealous of everything, everyone. It was projection. Narcissists are very jealous people that cannot accept that feeling. It's silly, because a healthy dose of jealousy is normal: it tells you that you care about another person.
Narcissists are not our allies, even though "they can't be evil or they can't be bad." They're just playing their role in order to keep their narcissistic supply readily available. Our assigned role is to wait on the narcissists, with bated breath and meekness, for their response or reaction to whatever event's occurring at that point in time. Healthy detachment and total indifference is the cure all for their emotional invalidation.
I can't stand the way that you will be having a conversation with them and when you finish your sentence and pause for their response, they start talking about a completely different subject without acknowledging what you were discussing with them. Passive aggressive dismisal. Also, the competing. I will talk about all of the things I accomplished in a day and in response I get, "you didn't do as much as I did", or "you're not as tired as me". Always a competition. And don't bother asking them a direct question. They will bob and weave for eternity. The would direct the conversation in a hundred directions trying to deflect my attention elsewhere until I got wise to what they were doing and now I refuse to discuss anything they are until they answer the question. I keep repeating it until they finally get exasperated and they yell the answer which happens to be the answer I expected; some rude, ugly thing or some truth they didn't want to admit or own up to. Just word salad always with them. Leaves you feeling exhausted after a conversation with them.
TheLordIsMyShepherd yes! so true especially the competition part... its really exhausting.. sometimes i thought why does this particular topic even needs a competition in the 1st place? why cant it be just 2 people sharing knowledge and experience? my ex narc lives with competition even in petty pathetic topic.. like childhood experience, seriosly.. shouldnt childhood memories atleast be something subjectives and personal? we were sharing childhood memories..he goes 1st and he told it in a way how such adorable he was as a child(seriosly who does that?) but i just laugh it off thinking he might be joking and i said "we all think we're cute when we're small" but he dont seem to agree with my statement.. he do genuinely thinks hes the cutest amongst all children.. so i continue with my stories.. i told my stories that were a bit embarrasing.. it was embarrasing when i was a toddler but as an adult it was a funny memory so im not that embarras now thinking about it.. infact, i think it was adorable.. but he proceed to taunt me and embarras me more thinking that i would be embarras.. i say i easily cry when i was small.. i even cry when my mom just touched me.. then he freaking judge me for that.. i was a child! it was a normal behavior!! but i still laugh it off saying that i was a child.. and i have a very low self esteem when i was small.. now looking back i think why would i even need to explain myself to him for something that happen in my childhood.. its amazing how he able to make me explain myself like ive done something wrong..
All we get in a conversation with them is rude remarks, put downs, condescension, word salad, and the need to defend or explain ourselves. Makes us feel like children being scolded or treated like we are joining the adults for the first time in a group and we feel awkward. They have learned to be cunning when talking to us, so seems like not telling them anything or gray rocking them is better than engaging with them if younhave that choice. I can't get away from my narcs yet so I have to keep a blank expression and show no emotion and just grunt, nod, and shake my head at the appropriate times and just let them think they are jabbing me with their words. But, inside I am just rolling my eyes and thinking how juvenile and petty they are. They will never take responsibility for anything, never say they are sorry, never validate, never change. They continue to get worse as they get older. My narc parents and golden child brother are like this. My parents are in their 60s and 70s and are worse now than when I was a child. The only thing you can do for yourself and the only thing they understand is NO CONTACT. You are normal. Keep your chin up.
TLordisMySheperd: Exactly. Beating around the bush with all else in their heads, except answering that 1 question. Duh?? Or pretends never said,, just brings up another topic or is silent. Competing as if a 1 ups-men-ship. I did this or this is how I do it.
Yes, missarissa1000.. having to get into explaining yourself after hearing rude comments or being nitpicked, antagonized over small shit.. and you find your having to cover your tracks. Stuff in past you can't do anything about NOW. That is exhausting and later you think how stupid... that you fell into that trap explaining; when no reason needed to explain. Silence would be best but you felt on the defense.
You are an intelligent young man. I appreciate your videos...they are well thought out, & you're clear & concise in getting your point across. Thank you for your gift to others.
One communication trick my narcissist tended to do a lot was to not listen/aknowledge what id say until it almost gets to the point that I would pretty much say everything and anything just to get him to hear me. (Then after he had gathered enough info. and rehearsed his response) he would finally reply.. so let's say I've caught him in a lie (unofficial PI/Lie Detector) he would respond but only telling me the things he knows I know.. he will never give the whole truth he only gives you what you already know, but with nothing other than a word salad. So anytime I speak to anyone now I have a certain thought process behind my words and it's actually a trait I could thank my narcissist for because you never really understand how important the phrase "think before you speak" is!
the number of times I wrote down the words "emotional invalidation" years before I knew what I was dealing with... How you feel matters. Do NOT let these types talk you out of your intuition. because that's ultimately what they try to do.
I confronted a covert narcissist with valid facts of inappropriate behaviour from their end. I got an angry stare followed by a long explanation that I'm over thinking things and am not being a normal person. The weeks that follow get worse with the smear campaign that came after.
This happened to me at work with one coworker, it was horrible. I ended up venting to the rest of my coworkers and they realized how she (narc) was basically isolating me from the group. The group then included me more often. I think this ultimately led to the narc actually leaving the workplace. she left saying that she had found a job with more pay, better benefits, etc.. on and on and on. It was so bad. I don't wish for anyone to ever experience this.
Here’s an example from my own experience with my narcissistic mother: “You’ve misunderstood me.” This is meant to make me feel that I have poor interpretation, which needs to be funneled through and validated by her. For me to get accustomed to and embrace this idea long term. What it is also meant to do is to make it appear as if I was not exactly doing what she asked. She wasn’t really asking. She was insinuating and hoping for me to fill in the blanks. She works by this in the physical form, as well. She didn’t “intend” to blow up my weekend when she asked that I take her somewhere. But, when she gets in the car, with something that almost amounts to luggage, it means that she intended for me to not only take her to multiple places. But to make sure the trip is only for her and not for any errands I need to run. Better yet, if it takes up my entire weekend, leaving me unproductive, and returning to work, with not so much as having done laundry. It’s the not asking you verbally and trying to make you look and feel as if you have a problem with it, that not much was being asked, or that you simply decided to do it, at every opportunity and of your own volition. You’re not being ambushed or imposed upon. You’re embracing that your mother wants very little from you. This is a game I got tired of playing and one of the many reasons she hasn’t seen me in over a year. I will say that I do understand some of the entitlement. My mother doesn’t drive and has helped me to buy cars in the past. Sometimes, paying for them in full. It is the invalidation of what I know she’s doing and the purpose of what she’s doing that ticks me off because it is to say that I am her little minion and I don’t have any time for myself that she doesn’t allow me. It is understanding that she just feels I’m her free Uber driver and not even an adult human enough that I deserve any personal time as, it’s simply not important to her. And, of course, all of this is being conveyed and insinuated so as to consider it to be misunderstood by me, since my interpretation of things needs to be validated by her, right? Plus, they want to gaslight that they are not hurting you as, they don’t want you to defend and disengage yourself. They want you to unwittingly embrace your abuse as, it’s confirmation to them that they are superior.
Once you see (feel) that thinly veiled contempt, that when confronted is denied, excused or justified-- RUN. It will not improve. And truly, watch how people treat others that they do not need, an underling of some sort, for that is a great way to predict how they will treat you, (and likewise, how they represent any Exes)...that is how you will be treated and represented to the world.
The words coming out of their mouth do not match their body language/facial expression/emotions expression . So weird and confusing. Of course, this is what they aim to do: Confuse. "I went to a great dinner!" they can say, with an aggressive tone, looking down at the floor.
They talk like you were dumb and they were the smart ones. I often accused of not letting him speak (projecton) when he would take over the whole conversation! I felt someone was standing there giving a monologue practically. The minute I said something he disliked he turned to blame shift, guilt trips and all kinds of things were dished out at me. In the end I was left feeling I was the bad guy.
They are AGGRESSIVE! You nailed it! That’s what I no longer tolerate in anyone: Aggression. Here are the 4 types of aggression, but toxics find new ways all the time: The three aggression types comprised reactive-expressive (i.e., verbal and physical aggression), reactive-inexpressive (e.g., hostility), and proactive-relational aggression (i.e., aggression that can break human relationships, for instance, by circulating malicious rumours).
Great topic, you are right. Their trade is manipulation, so they do it well. It is how they say it, they're convincing. I believe it's very important to them, to convince us.
one of my experiences with my wife is that the tone she takes always instantly puts me on the defensive. Just the tone and delivery of a simple greeting at the end of the day will start raising red flags, to which I am then assessed as the one who had an attitude even when attempting to remain as neutral as possible. Her most recent criticism of my always being defensive resulted in my firing back that it is hard not to always respond defensively, when every conversation feels like an attack. so now I am always getting mocked as "I am sorry if I am attacking you," or "Hope you won't take this as an attack," etc.
Can you be specific and give an example of one of her issues that she said she hoped you wouldn't take it as an attack? Do you know that sometimes a neutral tone can be just as disconnecting as a negative sounding one? Have you ever asked her what was wrong when she had a negative sounding tone? If yes, what did she say was the matter?
Narcissists have been telling empaths they're too sensitive and too emotional while at the same time communicating with (false) emotion in their tone and body language and reacting over emotionally when anyone questions them or holds them accountable. Once someone tells YOU how YOU should be feeling they show they are toxic. It's only going to get worse.
Hi Scott. When you said about the altering of perception, especially emotional violations, it created another level of understanding of what is obviously another universal trait.. When your in some shock to what was said out of blue, almost turrets like, then blame your misunderstanding is their recipe for cognitive dissonance & therefore an unconcious compliance to serve this great cerebal character of superiority. Even the most intelligent narcopath is pathologically habitually driven to patterns of repetition: Idealize, devalue, discard. Plea for help, provide it, punch you in in the heart. Lie, cheat, deciet. You do have some guarantees: Insinuating, insincerity, disingenuous, escalation, predictably abusive, trauma bonds, ptsd & ironically seeking help when the perpetrator sees no need to. Perhaps they have educated us to an awareness level that is going to protect us from future evil.
Brad McEwen that is what it has to be. Sincd the targets are all people whom true evil would Classically despise , right? (Educating us to defend against future evil) Seems to be the common target , an empathetic, straightforward. Promising individual thaf the narcissist cannot stand to have exist next to them while they exist as a black hole
Yes this is spot on. My Narc friend she would always over talk me while I was talking, Walk in front of me so she could be in the lead. Just pure Jealously and Envy.
i like your video spock. whenever someone makes you feel bad or puts you down look past the insult and into the agenda of the one insulting you. It is never true and even if it is if it is said with negative intent that person is utilizing your weakness for a self serving agenda either to gain power over you or to make them feel better. Thats a great way for them to rationalise being abusive.
I would agree that the invalidation or gas lighting is something that is fairly universal. I think it may manifest different on a case by case basis. But, the general concept seems fairly common to me based on what I have experienced and heard from other people. In my case the narcissist would often try to appear as they are helping when they attempted to invalidate me. Example: I am telling you for your own good that you are way too sensitive.
What you say is so true in my experience. The narc always has justifiable deniability in their communication so you can’t pin them down. Their intention is to hurt you but you are not allowed to acknowledge that you are hurt. It is crazy making. A constant need to make you upset and feed on that emotion then carry on like nothing happened.
In my experience, she (my ex narc) would literally redefine the definition of commonly used words. The argument would be taken into places completely unrelated to what I was trying to express and eventually we would be arguing about the definition of a word like “promise”. I’d eventually just walk away from the circular nonsense because my head would literally be throbbing.
Again, you are right on, Scott. My ex narc used to always say this meant that and that meant this, and twist the tone, and all. So today, sometimes someone says something and it might trigger a reaction as though they mean it in the awful way the narc said it meant when he was saying what it didn't mean, when today these people, typically my mother or husband, mean it in a non controlling way, they want to say something without malice, but I intrpret it as such. That was a run-on sentence. I hope you get my meaning. Anway, thanks again for an amazing video.
Sometimes what they say is a complete fabrication too. Which makes it difficult to decipher when they are speaking truth as to when they are speaking lies.
Andrea Blouin actually, I've been studying communication, and I've noticed that in many cases, expecially when dealing with narcissists, what is said (including the way it is delivered) is arranged in a way that leads you to assume what the speaker wants you to believe in order to make what they say coherent. It is part of their goal of dragging you in their illusion.
Andrea Blouin hahaha don't get it wrong, it's just a Google profile I use not to get some videos to show on my main account. I don't like people minding my business and ask me "why is this video on your favorite list"?
Andrea Blouin Exactly. I don't mind people finding my comments here. Most folk know what I've been through by now. People close to me know who the narc in question is. If anyone from my other communities see me here, they can ask me about it. It's not so ething I talk about because it's not that relevant to what I do and it is more difficult to talk about verbally than in writing, but if someone happens on one of these videos and see my comments, then chances are we share a common occurence in our lives. I have no qualms answering questions about it if people ask. But I understand the worry that comes from that as well. Will I be judged, will the narc find this, will I be trolled? But you know, at the end of the day, I just need to be myself, and wtv with negative people. If a "what if" scenario happens, I'll deal with it then. Nonpoint wasting my time worrying about it now. Universe only knows how much wasted time I've soent worrying for nothing. I'm trying to move out of that pattern. So I'm changing things up and taking chances. Which feels good, no longer hiding away about what happened. Took a while though, everyone needs to emerge in their own time.
I told a friend (I’m not sure if she’s a narcissist herself or just a flying monkey) that I needed one day to just focus on work and my own thoughts, and she told me it felt like I “set her on fire.” I swear, any boundaries set will make them ANGRY.
I was going through chemotherapy and hence not too active at the time. One day My narc bf came home from work and I mentioned I had done some errand or whatnot that day bc I felt up to it and he said something to the effect of "that's good it's been a while since you've done something with yourself." I told him that was hurtful since I already hated the fact I had to go through chemo and feel like shit.. response? My interpretation was incorrect and I was too sensitive, probably from what I was going through - unstable, you name it. Not him whatsoever. We're no longer together but I wish I left his ass a lot sooner. I was the perfect vulnerable little pawn for him to play around with.
I've been splurging on all your videos and wanted to express my deep gratitude for your work. I don't think I could have understood how dangerous these people are without your explanations that describe their behavior so concisely. You're out here changing lives 🙏🙌
Okay, so here's the thing: while they are trying to hurt you or get a reaction from you, they are *predictable* in their intent, so the only way to fight back is to be *totally unpredictable* (like literally think of something off the wall while they are yabbering). While you can get away from narcs in your family, you can't always get away from them at work. In order for these people not to sabotage you and compete with you, you have to do something they don't expect. Unfortunately, an acting job is required to get them to disengage and feel like you aren't worth being cruel and miserable to, even if you are talented. Things I have done: * yawned continuously while they are talking, and acted so sleepy that I could barely comprehend them * tell them that I have to speed to the bathroom * walk towards them so that I am practically in their face (like I can't hear them unless I am practically nose to nose) * when they throw out concepts and word salad, I'm constantly looking at my phone pretending I need to look up words and facts * tell them that I contracted a contagious disease and I *think* I am getting over it * tell them I'm coming down with something and they might want to keep their distance * acted like I totally didn't understand when they talked about feelings, like if they said "I'm hurt that you --", I might say "So, what you're telling me is that you're angry that --" ... it is what they do (word salad arguments, dodge and deflect), but unfortunately it's the only language they understand. The difference is that I do it to get away from them, and they do it to get me roped into an emotional argument and to dominate me. Believe me, you'll leave the narcissist confused instead of wanting to dominate you * I make everything I say ironic (narcissists are the least in touch with irony, but everyone else around you will get it) * act like Richard from "Keeping Up Appearances": when he's getting orders from the narcissist, he'll repeat the orders verbatim loudly and with just a whisper of sarcasm, and if he's caught at "sounding sarcastic" he'll play dumb: "Why no, why would I ever be sarcastic when YOU are talking? EVERYTHING you are saying is SO IMPORTANT!"" In general, being creative in your responses takes them off guard because they only know how to be predictable. They try different ways to hurt you and disable you, but that's as far as their creativity goes. They are mostly known for making an impulsive devastating impact rather than long-term devious thinking.
This indeed works. My Narc friend use to always over talk me while I was talking, Walk in front of me so she could be in the lead. So if I do have to interact with her if I'm talking and she starts to over talk me I just let her keep talking I grab my phone and start looking up stuff and pay her no attention. When she walks in front me so she can be in the lead I purposely start walking slower start looking at my phone while she looks like a damn fool. It eats at her so much. She cannot handle it.
You forgot to touch on the positioning of what is said, I think that's the most indirect way they have of hurting you. They just position their words in ways to create associations, and thus plant thoughts in your head. That's why they use a lot of useless words and irrational sayings. Because it's not enough HOW they say it, if it's not really saying anything directly, it's WHEN they say it, that is also needed to truly achieve an effect. Think about it!
Aleksandar Yes. There was this one expression said at a specific situation, on multiple occasions, in a certain tone. I had forgotten it. Then one day, years later, after not seen or spoken to the narc, living my life, my husband says to me "yes, but..." something simple about chores I think, and I flipped. I remember the look on his face because he had no clue what he had done wrong. Nor did I. But I was angry. We figured something had triggered. But that's all. After another time, we realised that this common phrase was it. So we delved deep to figure it out and the memory returned of how the narc would use it as a means to control and coerce me. My husband did his best to rephrase at times, but there is no knowing when something will trigger. There are less today than before. But had my husband not said that to me, I would have never figured out some of the details I needed to remember in order to heal some more. Trauma has deep roots. And all derived from what, how and when something is said. Not to worry, I don't flip anymore, I recognise triggers, and express it and analyse how it's making me feel. Much healthier, for me and my relationship.
I know you understand by now, those triggers are manually installed by the Narc. Each trigger is a button, and they build a whole keyboard before they ever play the first note! The narc I had to deal with super covert, was using microtriggers, also mostly based on positive emotions(falsly charged, but positive still). He went for a very complex combination of triggers in the end in order to push me to do what he wants, it became so visible, I saw it all, no matter the friendship and the familiar smile and whatever...Anyways, once you have planted the test and it has returned positive, you are on the other side, period. The sick person is pulling some barbaric form of mind-control on you, to get a kick out of it, but also benefit where possible. You , a much smarter person(more often than not) have been led by the nose by the means of simple put-downs, misdirections, shouts, shifts of topics, made-up situations and just a bunch of child tricks, coated up with sugary, sugary niceness and a wacky story about something else. He never told you what to think, only what to think about, again and again. Cherry-picking the topics every time he sees a conversation go in an unwanted direction, not answering, lying with a smile on his face. So, yes, because you are the one doing all the work and using all your energy to keep things moving, they have the energy to track your flow of information, "train" you "useful" skills and "ïdeas", and make you JUST CLICK AND TICK HIS WAY!!! He will make you feel tired, bored, in pain, smiling, in pain again, uncomfortable, shy, confused, ashamed, weak, strong, funny, stupid, bad, wrong and anything really...he will push all your buttons like an angry child, anything to get his way! But he isn't doing it, you're imagining things dear, here's another story about something else... ;)
Aleksandar I adore your description of it. It is so accurate. And I can relate to the keyboard. I'm a writer and a gamer. I use the keyboard not only to put thoughts into words but also to control my characters, make them jump, move forward, select which ability to use in a fight. In swtor, there are "emotes" and we can give facial expressions and things to our characters. The narc decides what "emote" he wants his enabler in. Anyway, all to say the comparison is a relatable one. I'm glad I don't have as many triggers as I used to. Yet still too many. I need to be patient with myself sometimes because I feel that after ten years I should be more healed than I am. Then again, I am more healed than I was and so much better for it. I will use your comparison when talking with certain people who may or may not understand how I may have lost my identity of self during that relationship. The hard part is getting people to understand why it still affects me and why I can't just get over it in words they can understand, while trying not to judge myself.
In the times I started to realize myself, my Narc had trained me to farm WoW Gold for him. Well , it was for us, except he always spent all of it for himself, saying it would boost the guild we had. He spend all 1 million gold to buy ENDGAME items for all 9 of his characters, and in the end wanted to buy something small instead of main weapon for my main character. He insisted with all his emotional energy this was part of some plan and something we are doing together. I started to push him very seriously over what he has done, espessaily over the last few purchases, and istead of backing-up he went full nutjob. He had made some previous bad comments about my online characters as a joke, so he started to extend those same comments towards my identity using custom language and wierd noises. I remember the day I realized it all, I turned on WoW and started farming without even thinking of it, even though I was angry before. This freaked me out and made me found all those videos, which explained to me how some people have...different operating systems let's say :D Of course he was a piece of shit all his life, but I've finally figured him out, it's kind of a great success actually :) Now I spot this manipualtive, greasy stonewalling and have cut out a few more people from my life as a result. Ye, quit smoking after that, np :) :)
Aleksandar That's insane, the method he used. Mine used video games to try to "train" my brother. The way my bro describes it, he felt sleepy but cozy and felt as though the narc was making him his apprentice of evil, and he didn't agree with what he was being taught about how to get people to do what you want them to, but he wanted more of it, and it also indicates some of the methods he used as it exposes him now. He worked my bro, he worked my best friend, all so that I would look even less legit if I spoke ill of him.
You are a wonderful blessing. These messages infuse life into me. I want to thank you for all your hard work. Words cannot express the pain when the Narcissist is disloyal and cheats constantly. Lack of empathic feeling, the embodiment of evil. But in thier minds its all your fault.
it freaks me out... when u explain everything I was feeling and what I thought .. what and how he was talking to me. ... when all that was happening to me....you explain things that were such insignificant moments of such significance to me.... and I dismissed it to myself when it was happening.😣
Passive aggression appears in almost every interaction,, combined with insinuation that they are superior, with vast knowledge that can only benefit me. A trap to wear me down, the manipulation is extremely covert
This explanation rings so true. One of the communicative things I experience over and over is her ability to both overtly compliment and almost in the same breath criticize in such a subtle way that it's nearly impossible to point it out, but I feel it like being stabbed in the gut with a kitchen knife! Any time I've attempted to confront, it's deflected with reminders about all the times she compliments and "supports" me. If I happen to say something that carries any weight whatsoever, I can count on it being used later as a subtle or sometimes not so subtle whipping. It's maddening and so very sad at the same time.
I want to add one more thought. Not only do they do this to intimidate, invalidate, etc., they do it so that eventually you give up arguing/discussing things of importance with them. I think that’s exactly how they want it because that’s all they’re capable of. They also have control of you and the situation in their own perverted way.
In my experience, she (my ex narc) would literally redefine the definition of commonly used words. The argument would be taken into places completely unrelated to what I was trying to express and eventually we would be arguing about the definition of a word like “promise”. I’d eventually get so angry I would just walk away. Had I known what I was dealing with at that time I could’ve handled it so much differently.
I feel like the more he gets me frustrated and mad that it is comforting him and calming him and then I am left with so much anger and hating that I fell for it again
yes, their narc environment needs to be propped up just for them. They need a validation that they will win in this environment. It's like having all the facts of the future and knowing how to steer your way through them. They want all the cards and not one card is for you! If you were to get a card they would be insulted and mad you got a card.
Two things narcissistic bosses have said to me: Just as I was going out of the door from a yearly review one boss told me that there would be no promotions in the team nor would there be any bonuses. Two weeks later a friend and colleague in the team was promoted. Around 2 months later when I was sick of the boss and handed in my resignation I received what was the biggest bonus I had ever received. unfortunately for the business I handed in my resignation three days before I knew of the bonus and the bonus came into my account. The boss did not have time to stop the bonus. Another boss I have had was explaining something to me very quickly so I asked if he could slow down, he snapped and said 'I am not going fast you are the one jumping to conclusions and thinking too quickly'. On several occasions this boss told me he knew what I was thinking so eventually I asked him "what am I thinking" and he sort of fumbled and said something so general that it covered pretty much every single possibility. Oh, and my mother was a narcissist too...
Scott it is such a relief to hear you articulate the things I had to learn the hard way. And the comments are also extremely helpful and true. It's a club I'm pretty sure none of us signed up for.
So, recently my husband has been working on going VLC with his narc parents. His mother has been trying every trick in the book to hoover him back in, but there is **ALWAYS** an emotion she's going for (guilt and shame being at the top of her list). Recently, she sent him a message saying that they are currently visiting relatives and that "they, like us, are aging" (before she then went on to update him on how they are all doing otherwise). Oh, and she mentioned the aging thing once again in a separate note to him about the rellies as well...so twice, just in case he missed it the first time. LOL Clearly, the underlying emotion she's going for here is guilt. Translation: feel guilty and sad that you aren't really speaking to me because I am an old, feeble woman who might die soon." So, the main tone of the message is fairly benign, but there is ALWAYS some little hit at the emotions (usually towards the beginning of the message, to sort of "set the tone", I assume). She's also the same person who would start a webcam visit with my husband (in years past) with "Oh, you're gaining some weight/look a little chubby"...you know, instead of "Oh, I'm so glad to see your face! I've missed you!". (and for the record, he has been the same weight for the last 10 or so years and is a very normal weight, not that that should matter.) She always has to drop the insult or attempt to make you somehow feel bad right there at the beginning, and then she'll switch gears and try to make it all sound fine, so that you sit and wonder if you should really be upset about it because the rest of the communication seemed (for the most part) benign.
The cycle of communication is of course, a HUGE topic of discussion. What I mean by that is, most of our "emotional" heavy discussions get caught up in a very cyclical quagmire in the wonderful land of "meta-communication". No longer are we are "talking", it becomes an issue with "how" I am expressing. Now, I do have an extensive vocabulary and tend not to use it against another person...I allow clarification of words and/ or ideas expressed to be clarified according to the sender's "intention"... What I have found is my words and quite often, a single word will stop the communication, because I used a word that carries some undefined trigger for my narcissist. Not only am I unable to clarify, but my "word" should have been another one, or often hides my "true" negative view of whatever we are no longer talking about. His definition of the "word" is standardized across the English language, and my narrow definition...well I should have known that no one else would pick up what I'm putting down. I am held to a static lexicon, that only he can define and seemingly rewrite anytime he doesn't want to communicate. If I thought more carefully chosen words would get "us" out of this cycle, I would be wrong. It is at that point that my very simple speech, well it just hides ill-content, in which he has read between the lines perfectly and now gets to ascribe whatever message he wants to it. Ugh!!!
Holly Cook LOL!!! So accurate ,even if you attempt to speak to them at the kindergarten, level . You will be accused of "using your education or learned knowledge" , against them. Hahaha By the end I just spoke like I wanted too. Dude, had no idea, what I was saying (let alone feeling or thinking) which gave him an excuse, to drink more and smoke crack. So, even if you spoke in the correct tone , using the smallest, words. Your narc will find another way to avoid the issues. Their craziness, is boundless!
They want u to think ur the ugliest most worthless person, but won't leave u alone. Instead of convincing themselves u are not worth stalking, they think somehow making u believe these things will help them
Well said brother - they just don't any understanding of how to connect emotionally with people. And, you can't have a relationship with someone, if there's no emotional channel between the two. That's precisely what they do - suffocate the other person emotionally.
Still looking at your videos TODAY I will move away from my narcissist on 23 july 2020. And I will do a serie of video's like your's in french to "get it out of my system". THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
One of the tricks I remember was the overuse of certain hackneyed phrases, almost as if the sociopath was testing them during a period of time (or maybe he just repeated himself a lot and changed the phrases over time). The purpose of these phrases was to imply some information that was not true or to confuse, for example: Coming home from a long day at work -Did you buy food for dinner? -Oh, I couldn't buy any food because I've been really busy doing the dishes 'and so on'. (He did the dishes and spent the rest of the day playing videogames but 'and so on' makes you think that he did a lot of house chores). -Are you feeling better today? -'Yes and no'. -What do you mean yes and no? -Yes, I've been able to get out of bed, but I had a headache and have not been able to study. (Never an easy answer. There was a time in which he would literally answer 'Yes and no' to any closed-ended question, it was exhausting and confusing) Those are simple examples but his communication was always distorted and prefabricated.
having finally I think been able to cut ties with my narcissistic I little him abuser and listening to your video it's it's putting those small pieces of the puzzle it's the glue that holds together all the pieces that I could not put together it just makes it all so Crystal Clear thank you so much
Scott, I like you and the way your present your aguments. You make me inquire more deeply into my already inquisitive and theoretical mind to come up with even more ways to put these ideas together. I watched this video a second time and then slept on it, and that may have been the key, When I awake I started thinking and writing and came up with ways that what you are saying about what "they" are saying and how the real result is in "how you feel", could also be about "the destruction as an accomplishment over time". The missing piece in how I viewed it may be that the results in what is happening show only over time. ..over time being the point. How covert! How manipulative! (Not You.) How devious in the waiting and the adjusting and the actually fruition of the destructive intent because it is a function over time. You can slap a rock and see no visible difference over time. But if you slap a human spirit over time in a way that is not detected and therefore not healed each time, you can pride yourself in significant destruction, but again, only something you can then see over time! We can not longer put Anything Past these Narc's. The ego hit must be explosive and capable of taking the Narc on a long trip of self-adulation when they accomplish long-term goals. Am I wrong. Please feel free to mention this if it interests you, or let us know if this is what you have been saying all along.
Its all so darn subtle...so logical and yet so studied. And with the innocent baby face...he still is at it as i live in his property and im unwell. Learning though. Thanks Scott!
Wow this just really opened my eyes because it described very clearly and accurately what he does to me. Which really scares me because I've had a hard time really figuring out if I was right that he's a narcissist and this pretty much confirms it, I just need to trust my perception of reality instead of allowing his to confuse me.
Every time I watch one of your videos I'm amazed that there is actually somebody else out there who is just like my ex and somebody else that has dealt with what I dealt with before and after being married to him. For 17 years I had no idea what was wrong or what was happening and I thought I was crazy. I would always tell him it's HOW he says things to me or HOW he talks to me, but his response is/was always, "I don't do anything to you. It's the way you take it or your perception of what I said" or he would point out how I always"try to make it seem like" he's doing this or that. He would sit me down and explain to me how the way I think about things and perceive things are different from everybody else..it was always like a chatisement.
Thank you so much for your videos , they are helping me understand more every day. I'm involved with a narcissist and he will say things like " I thought you were a risk taker" when I refuse to go and do something he wants me to do . I can feel then that he's trying to manipulate me. He also pulls a lot of faces when I'm speaking. He will look at me as if I have said something really stupid. I can feel it and see him for what he is and even though I'm not completely involved with him or see him that often. I'm still seeing him. I know this is more to do with my own self esteem. He does it as you say though, in such a covert way that it's not enough for me to call him out. If I ask "why are you rolling your eye's?" He doesn't answer as if he hasn't heard me! It's so weird. I need to stop meeting with him. I'm disappointed in myself I guess . Thanks again for your videos
the sun starts shining in when all lies...deception falls away....when that happens they go running because they know the lights shining in and their not going to stick around for that
Absolutely true. They talk meanly, tersley and commanding even on simple stuff. Then when you call them out they will say "oh I was just letting you jnow" or "that's how I talk" or the best one is "why you getting defensive? "
Your insights are amazing. You have a gift. We -(the unsuspecting victims ) are fortunate to have your guidance, even if we have signs ourselves of being programmed as a child to think like narcissistic parents (?) the subject you are focusing on promises relief from emotional pain thru successful detachment. May the Celestial Blessings of God’s Life Force Continue to be with you ... Thank you !
How someone makes you feel, says a lot about them.
Megan Anderly it's my quote. Thank you.
JD the way the narc communicated with me had really bad influence on me.
Sometime I see myself hurting someone's feeling by making bad jokes. I'm having hard time trying to fix myself.
No, no Andrea. Letting what they say lower your emotional level to theirs is what lowers you to their level. But keeping pithy and lighthearted, essentially floating above while turning their own language against them is...FUN! 😎
Quartuv - easier said than done.
Love what you said too! Mind if I quote you on my facebook wall? Just for friends to see, won't be going public.
I just ignore them. They hate that.
It's "CRAZY" how universal narcissistic traits actually are. Once you can recognize their behaviors and you educate yourself, the more empowered you become.
Jaime Flor Yes....like they went to some sort of Narc school...very weird.
This video is a 100 percent true it's not what they say it's the cold condescending tone they use they make you feel unimportant
I pray you have learned from all of this. No one that abuses you is worth your time. My Narc will be back to try & hurt me more. Changing door locks etc...
Omg yes very cold and evil
Yes the condescending ,remember that well.. " there's nothing wrong with my voice "
for such a young man, your insight into narcissists is quite remarkable.
He experience it and that really makes a difference.
Isn't it!!!???
Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, "I am only joking!" Proverbs 26: 18-19
Ahh, yes. Double meanings and misgivings. My narc-o-mom used to say "That's not what I meant", or "You misunderstood me", or "What on Earth are you talking about", or "You're imagining things" ...every time I tried get clarity on what she said. It literally drove me to a sort of insanity for many decades. Now I know and it's crystal clear what monsters narcs are.
Andrea, Thank you... I actually did LOL! Awesome, it's called LYING! :) I like your approach!
I can relate to what your saying, they always deny and act like it was all in your head- gaslighting.
Tyr Ravensohn my mom did the same thing. plus...oh your just oversensitive.
Behind every narc there is an abused child. Ur 100 YR behind bc ur hurt. You can't blame a brutalized dogs for it's bites.
Tyr Ravensohn, omg that sounds like my Mom. Wow!! This is the circular argument we always get into. It’s so frustrating:(
"Emotional invalidation is the invisible cornerstone of emotional abuse and dysfunction...it has to be there. and it has to go unnoticed " THIS put's into words what I have been trying to describe for so long. I used to refer to it as it's as if they are always saying emotionally abusive things with "Plausible Deniability" worked in so they don't have to be accountable when you attempt to address the issue.
Covert narcs are such masters at this. Subtle invalidation of your feelings while bringing the focus back to themselves.
Maya Angelo said this very weltl : "You can forget what people do, you can forget what people say, but you will never forget how they made you feel." I might not Have the exact words but they're close and its the same as Scott expresses so well.
Christine Miller, " I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel," (Maya Angelou).
Yep. That is one constant message from the narcissist: Your emotions are invalid and wrong, and you have incorrectly interpreted their message.
this was spot on..communication with a narcissist? like talking to a wall. Don't you dare have any emotions to the fact they ignore you or whatever other kind of head game they are playing, because THEN you are crazy. Sums up my experience with NARCS
"It has to function and it has to go unnoticed." Perfectly put.
One of the most frustrating thing about narcissists is that they refuse to communicate directly to fix a problem. When any attempt is made to discuss a matter, they will not engage in discussion, through rage to divert attention from it. I have many examples of actions the narcs took that they told me they were not interested in doing, when I suggested them, but I found out later that they did with someone else. The made sure I knew they did it with someone else as though we never discussed doing it. This is a very subtle covert way of showing us how insignificant we are and how much more they like someone else.
From my own struggles with cluster b personalities they look for a response of any sort. I don't give them a reaction to utilize. Healing from emotional distress of any sort takes time. What worked best for myself was to be by myself. You will discover some things about yourself that you never understood before. Thank You for your videos and be easy on yourself.
WORD! Thank you for this.
Thank you
I have a co worker I rejected. He asked for my phone number when another co-workers was leaving. I never called him
He said people who work this job are not confident and he will only work there no more than a year. It's been a year and a half.
He's a nice guy. But loves to talk. I totally ignore him daily. Last time we spoke. He told me he was at a party and he couldn't talk to a girl he likes.
Says alot.
Yes! Invalidation is the death of two way communication and that´s what they need to establish dominance.
Exactly. Trust your intuition and how you feel
Nothing they say is from the heart. That would make them look vulnerable and weak. They lie to you and themselves about how important you are to them in order to maintain control of the situation.
nailed it...emotional invalidation is deadly...a silent killer, because you don't received what you are entitled to based on the relationship, like mother/child * husband/wife * friend/friend They not only take from you your emotional strength that you (being relatively normal) will naturally give, but they don't validate you as well, so your needs, wants, expressions, offensives they are oblivious to and they go unnoticed, or worse they are met with indifference. They don't understand what your problem is no matter how clearly you explain it. They have an inward mechanism that shuts down when the subject turns from them to you. They try to hide the fact that they have no time for you, but the glazed over look gives it away. After awhile you can't figure it out yourself anymore...'am I just being emotional, do i have a problem, they are making so much sense right now and Im the one going crazy..." But the reality is they are incredibly self immersed and stubborn that you will never win because they will never move. They are the brick wall and you are the one hoping that some where there will be an opening in the wall, so you try and try , eventually you realize that it is a brick wall period and you are the one getting injured expecting some normalcy.
To try and understand this kind of person is like trying to solve a rubik's cube blind folded...impossible!
crownofthorns
Bravo!! Well said.
CrownofThorns - Inward Mechanism! That's 1 of the top issues, no one else has referred to in videos.. or at least as you described. Oddly my Narc, loves to hang with me in spite of the merry go round salad chat. Will interrupt half way thru a sentence by asking a question or changing the subject... so rude.. and the questions might be answered if they/he would shutup & listen, allowing to complete the thought I was saying. He stated once finally after 8 yrs of acting like mental block listening, that he has cognitive issues (A.D.D.), but I wonder if it was true (seems like it is) OR, an excuse for ignorance. Responses come anywhere from 15 minutes later (as if they thought of this topic fresh off the top of their minds) to almost 3-5 days later as a new topic, even after being hashed over before.
In fact he has an attention span no longer than 3-5 minutes at times!
Brick Wall! LOL! Exactly. Quietly Stubborn impasse. No acknowledgement of what was just said, because it was too much better than they can comprehend. Just wait for it to surface later as if they said it 1st. Brick Wall when they are wrong & pointed out for it. YOU WILL NEVER GET " I AM SORRY".. I WAS WRONG, NOTHING TO VALIDATE WHAT THEY DID. ONLY WHAT YOU SAY AND DO - IF ANGERED, YOU ARE CRAZY! THEY ARE RIGHT. WHY SAY SORRY WHEN THEY THINK THEY NEVER DO THINGS WRONG OR ANTAGONIZE YOU TO CREATE DISHARMONY.
They apologize for dumb things that don't matter a lot so when they do something wrong and don't apologize for it, they can recall how they always are apologizing. They fake mock themselves so they can switch to mocking you. They will also ask for advice or complain and then tell you your advice is wrong. They fake sick and injuries a lot. I.e. They know you like to walk 2 miles so they ask to join you and 1/4 of the way, they say their foot hurts. They won't let you keep walking though. They want you both to stop. They won't be sick or hurt when they have a special occasion. They'll ask for advice and then tell other people you are actually judging them and always trying to tell them how to live!!!???? Just a few examples 😢
I dont know if this is what you are trying to say Scott, but my ex used to triangulate me with almost everyone she met, her boss was hitting on her, her personal trainer, her cousin, she told me situations that made me doubt if she was actually having affairs with other people or not. Im not a jealous guy, but the way she told me those things, always made me feel bad and suspicious. I didnt know whats going on. So one day i told her this, and of course, i was being crazy, because she only told me that because she trusted me and i was her boyfriend and she felt comfortable doing so. For her, the information was something natural and innocent, and i was the crazy one because i thought she was trying to hurt me. They always say things, covertly, and when you confront them, they always remove the bad intentions from it and make it look like a small thing. That is abusive because it invalidates your feelings.
Jorge Campos you described very well what I experienced in my relationship. Narcs are good at manufacturing jealousy. They can obtain many points against their victims calling them untrusting, crazy, insecure, unhappy about themselves, unstable etc... For years I was the crazy one imagining bad things, then people showed me evidence, very easy to find evidence; it's just that I wasn't looking for it.
Guess was happening now? Narc is saying that I am resentful. Resentful for having found out that he was a serial cheater for 24 yrs! With every available woman: friends' wives, neighbors, waitresses, shopkeepers, dozens of hookers. Undeniable evidence. Now I am the problem because I'm resentful. And sometimes my son repeats his words, this hurts me even more. Nobody believes what I went through: I wasn't suspicious, I was right.
I had a very similar experience. My ex's landlord was a former ex that was triangulated, former wife was kept in touch with, former ex was a massage therapist that she used to recieve massages from and tell me...inappropriate things. Honestly, I would rather not even know about the latter. It was alluded to that I was, "jealous," but my ex was, " abnormally not jealous." This was not true. My ex was very jealous, jealous of everything, everyone. It was projection. Narcissists are very jealous people that cannot accept that feeling. It's silly, because a healthy dose of jealousy is normal: it tells you that you care about another person.
Jorge Campos mine did the same thing.
Narcissists are not our allies, even though "they can't be evil or they can't be bad." They're just playing their role in order to keep their narcissistic supply readily available.
Our assigned role is to wait on the narcissists, with bated breath and meekness, for their response or reaction to whatever event's occurring at that point in time.
Healthy detachment and total indifference is the cure all for their emotional invalidation.
I can't stand the way that you will be having a conversation with them and when you finish your sentence and pause for their response, they start talking about a completely different subject without acknowledging what you were discussing with them. Passive aggressive dismisal. Also, the competing. I will talk about all of the things I accomplished in a day and in response I get, "you didn't do as much as I did", or "you're not as tired as me". Always a competition. And don't bother asking them a direct question. They will bob and weave for eternity. The would direct the conversation in a hundred directions trying to deflect my attention elsewhere until I got wise to what they were doing and now I refuse to discuss anything they are until they answer the question. I keep repeating it until they finally get exasperated and they yell the answer which happens to be the answer I expected; some rude, ugly thing or some truth they didn't want to admit or own up to. Just word salad always with them. Leaves you feeling exhausted after a conversation with them.
TheLordIsMyShepherd yes! so true especially the competition part... its really exhausting.. sometimes i thought why does this particular topic even needs a competition in the 1st place? why cant it be just 2 people sharing knowledge and experience? my ex narc lives with competition even in petty pathetic topic.. like childhood experience, seriosly.. shouldnt childhood memories atleast be something subjectives and personal? we were sharing childhood memories..he goes 1st and he told it in a way how such adorable he was as a child(seriosly who does that?) but i just laugh it off thinking he might be joking and i said "we all think we're cute when we're small" but he dont seem to agree with my statement.. he do genuinely thinks hes the cutest amongst all children.. so i continue with my stories.. i told my stories that were a bit embarrasing.. it was embarrasing when i was a toddler but as an adult it was a funny memory so im not that embarras now thinking about it.. infact, i think it was adorable.. but he proceed to taunt me and embarras me more thinking that i would be embarras.. i say i easily cry when i was small.. i even cry when my mom just touched me.. then he freaking judge me for that.. i was a child! it was a normal behavior!! but i still laugh it off saying that i was a child.. and i have a very low self esteem when i was small.. now looking back i think why would i even need to explain myself to him for something that happen in my childhood.. its amazing how he able to make me explain myself like ive done something wrong..
That was so funny! Can you imagine the look on their face if something like that was said? Tee hee.
All we get in a conversation with them is rude remarks, put downs, condescension, word salad, and the need to defend or explain ourselves. Makes us feel like children being scolded or treated like we are joining the adults for the first time in a group and we feel awkward. They have learned to be cunning when talking to us, so seems like not telling them anything or gray rocking them is better than engaging with them if younhave that choice. I can't get away from my narcs yet so I have to keep a blank expression and show no emotion and just grunt, nod, and shake my head at the appropriate times and just let them think they are jabbing me with their words. But, inside I am just rolling my eyes and thinking how juvenile and petty they are. They will never take responsibility for anything, never say they are sorry, never validate, never change. They continue to get worse as they get older. My narc parents and golden child brother are like this. My parents are in their 60s and 70s and are worse now than when I was a child. The only thing you can do for yourself and the only thing they understand is NO CONTACT. You are normal. Keep your chin up.
TLordisMySheperd: Exactly. Beating around the bush with all else in their heads, except answering that 1 question. Duh?? Or pretends never said,, just brings up another topic or is silent. Competing as if a 1 ups-men-ship. I did this or this is how I do it.
Yes, missarissa1000.. having to get into explaining yourself after hearing rude comments or being nitpicked, antagonized over small shit.. and you find your having to cover your tracks. Stuff in past you can't do anything about NOW. That is exhausting and later you think how stupid... that you fell into that trap explaining; when no reason needed to explain. Silence would be best but you felt on the defense.
You are an intelligent young man. I appreciate your videos...they are well thought out, & you're clear & concise in getting your point across. Thank you for your gift to others.
One communication trick my narcissist tended to do a lot was to not listen/aknowledge what id say until it almost gets to the point that I would pretty much say everything and anything just to get him to hear me. (Then after he had gathered enough info. and rehearsed his response) he would finally reply.. so let's say I've caught him in a lie (unofficial PI/Lie Detector) he would respond but only telling me the things he knows I know.. he will never give the whole truth he only gives you what you already know, but with nothing other than a word salad. So anytime I speak to anyone now I have a certain thought process behind my words and it's actually a trait I could thank my narcissist for because you never really understand how important the phrase "think before you speak" is!
the number of times I wrote down the words "emotional invalidation" years before I knew what I was dealing with... How you feel matters. Do NOT let these types talk you out of your intuition. because that's ultimately what they try to do.
I confronted a covert narcissist with valid facts of inappropriate behaviour from their end. I got an angry stare followed by a long explanation that I'm over thinking things and am not being a normal person. The weeks that follow get worse with the smear campaign that came after.
This happened to me at work with one coworker, it was horrible. I ended up venting to the rest of my coworkers and they realized how she (narc) was basically isolating me from the group. The group then included me more often. I think this ultimately led to the narc actually leaving the workplace. she left saying that she had found a job with more pay, better benefits, etc.. on and on and on. It was so bad. I don't wish for anyone to ever experience this.
Your so right, the narcissist loves making people feel crap about themselves.
Here’s an example from my own experience with my narcissistic mother:
“You’ve misunderstood me.” This is meant to make me feel that I have poor interpretation, which needs to be funneled through and validated by her. For me to get accustomed to and embrace this idea long term.
What it is also meant to do is to make it appear as if I was not exactly doing what she asked. She wasn’t really asking. She was insinuating and hoping for me to fill in the blanks. She works by this in the physical form, as well. She didn’t “intend” to blow up my weekend when she asked that I take her somewhere. But, when she gets in the car, with something that almost amounts to luggage, it means that she intended for me to not only take her to multiple places. But to make sure the trip is only for her and not for any errands I need to run. Better yet, if it takes up my entire weekend, leaving me unproductive, and returning to work, with not so much as having done laundry. It’s the not asking you verbally and trying to make you look and feel as if you have a problem with it, that not much was being asked, or that you simply decided to do it, at every opportunity and of your own volition. You’re not being ambushed or imposed upon. You’re embracing that your mother wants very little from you.
This is a game I got tired of playing and one of the many reasons she hasn’t seen me in over a year. I will say that I do understand some of the entitlement. My mother doesn’t drive and has helped me to buy cars in the past. Sometimes, paying for them in full. It is the invalidation of what I know she’s doing and the purpose of what she’s doing that ticks me off because it is to say that I am her little minion and I don’t have any time for myself that she doesn’t allow me. It is understanding that she just feels I’m her free Uber driver and not even an adult human enough that I deserve any personal time as, it’s simply not important to her.
And, of course, all of this is being conveyed and insinuated so as to consider it to be misunderstood by me, since my interpretation of things needs to be validated by her, right? Plus, they want to gaslight that they are not hurting you as, they don’t want you to defend and disengage yourself. They want you to unwittingly embrace your abuse as, it’s confirmation to them that they are superior.
Once you see (feel) that thinly veiled contempt, that when confronted is denied, excused or justified-- RUN. It will not improve. And truly, watch how people treat others that they do not need, an underling of some sort, for that is a great way to predict how they will treat you, (and likewise, how they represent any Exes)...that is how you will be treated and represented to the world.
Even blocking you from communication is strong communication passive aggressive control
Otherwise the wouldn't bother !
you are the best one in the narc explaining youtube community!
The words coming out of their mouth do not match their body language/facial expression/emotions expression . So weird and confusing. Of course, this is what they aim to do: Confuse.
"I went to a great dinner!" they can say, with an aggressive tone, looking down at the floor.
They talk like you were dumb and they were the smart ones. I often accused of not letting him speak (projecton) when he would take over the whole conversation! I felt someone was standing there giving a monologue practically. The minute I said something he disliked he turned to blame shift, guilt trips and all kinds of things were dished out at me. In the end I was left feeling I was the bad guy.
They are AGGRESSIVE! You nailed it! That’s what I no longer tolerate in anyone: Aggression. Here are the 4 types of aggression, but toxics find new ways all the time: The three aggression types comprised reactive-expressive (i.e., verbal and physical aggression), reactive-inexpressive (e.g., hostility), and proactive-relational aggression (i.e., aggression that can break human relationships, for instance, by circulating malicious rumours).
narcissists are indeed very indirect.
Great topic, you are right. Their trade is manipulation, so they do it well. It is how they say it, they're convincing. I believe it's very important to them, to convince us.
one of my experiences with my wife is that the tone she takes always instantly puts me on the defensive. Just the tone and delivery of a simple greeting at the end of the day will start raising red flags, to which I am then assessed as the one who had an attitude even when attempting to remain as neutral as possible.
Her most recent criticism of my always being defensive resulted in my firing back that it is hard not to always respond defensively, when every conversation feels like an attack.
so now I am always getting mocked as "I am sorry if I am attacking you," or "Hope you won't take this as an attack," etc.
Can you be specific and give an example of one of her issues that she said she hoped you wouldn't take it as an attack? Do you know that sometimes a neutral tone can be just as disconnecting as a negative sounding one? Have you ever asked her what was wrong when she had a negative sounding tone? If yes, what did she say was the matter?
narcissist that try to instill fear in and put the blame on others whether true or false
Narcissists have been telling empaths they're too sensitive and too emotional while at the same time communicating with (false) emotion in their tone and body language and reacting over emotionally when anyone questions them or holds them accountable. Once someone tells YOU how YOU should be feeling they show they are toxic. It's only going to get worse.
Hi Scott. When you said about the altering of perception, especially emotional violations, it created another level of understanding of what is obviously another universal trait.. When your in some shock to what was said out of blue, almost turrets like, then blame your misunderstanding is their recipe for cognitive dissonance & therefore an unconcious compliance to serve this great cerebal character of superiority. Even the most intelligent narcopath is pathologically habitually driven to patterns of repetition:
Idealize, devalue, discard.
Plea for help, provide it, punch you in in the heart.
Lie, cheat, deciet.
You do have some guarantees:
Insinuating, insincerity, disingenuous, escalation, predictably abusive, trauma bonds, ptsd & ironically seeking help when the perpetrator sees no need to.
Perhaps they have educated us to an awareness level that is going to protect us from future evil.
Brad McEwen that is what it has to be. Sincd the targets are all people whom true evil would Classically despise , right? (Educating us to defend against future evil)
Seems to be the common target , an empathetic, straightforward. Promising individual thaf the narcissist cannot stand to have exist next to them while they exist as a black hole
I've been researching narcissistic abuse for decades and I've never heard anyone break it down quiet like this. Thanks
Yes this is spot on. My Narc friend she would always over talk me while I was talking, Walk in front of me so she could be in the lead. Just pure Jealously and Envy.
i like your video spock. whenever someone makes you feel bad or puts you down look past the insult and into the agenda of the one insulting you. It is never true and even if it is if it is said with negative intent that person is utilizing your weakness for a self serving agenda either to gain power over you or to make them feel better. Thats a great way for them to rationalise being abusive.
I would agree that the invalidation or gas lighting is something that is fairly universal. I think it may manifest different on a case by case basis. But, the general concept seems fairly common to me based on what I have experienced and heard from other people. In my case the narcissist would often try to appear as they are helping when they attempted to invalidate me. Example: I am telling you for your own good that you are way too sensitive.
Spot on! It's always "for our own good" anyway,
What you say is so true in my experience. The narc always has justifiable deniability in their communication so you can’t pin them down. Their intention is to hurt you but you are not allowed to acknowledge that you are hurt. It is crazy making. A constant need to make you upset and feed on that emotion then carry on like nothing happened.
In my experience, she (my ex narc) would literally redefine the definition of commonly used words. The argument would be taken into places completely unrelated to what I was trying to express and eventually we would be arguing about the definition of a word like “promise”.
I’d eventually just walk away from the circular nonsense because my head would literally be throbbing.
THAT is for sure. Passive Aggressive is their favorite tactic!
Again, you are right on, Scott. My ex narc used to always say this meant that and that meant this, and twist the tone, and all. So today, sometimes someone says something and it might trigger a reaction as though they mean it in the awful way the narc said it meant when he was saying what it didn't mean, when today these people, typically my mother or husband, mean it in a non controlling way, they want to say something without malice, but I intrpret it as such. That was a run-on sentence. I hope you get my meaning. Anway, thanks again for an amazing video.
Sometimes what they say is a complete fabrication too. Which makes it difficult to decipher when they are speaking truth as to when they are speaking lies.
Andrea Blouin actually, I've been studying communication, and I've noticed that in many cases, expecially when dealing with narcissists, what is said (including the way it is delivered) is arranged in a way that leads you to assume what the speaker wants you to believe in order to make what they say coherent. It is part of their goal of dragging you in their illusion.
Andrea Blouin hahaha don't get it wrong, it's just a Google profile I use not to get some videos to show on my main account. I don't like people minding my business and ask me "why is this video on your favorite list"?
Andrea Blouin Exactly. I don't mind people finding my comments here. Most folk know what I've been through by now. People close to me know who the narc in question is. If anyone from my other communities see me here, they can ask me about it. It's not so ething I talk about because it's not that relevant to what I do and it is more difficult to talk about verbally than in writing, but if someone happens on one of these videos and see my comments, then chances are we share a common occurence in our lives. I have no qualms answering questions about it if people ask. But I understand the worry that comes from that as well. Will I be judged, will the narc find this, will I be trolled? But you know, at the end of the day, I just need to be myself, and wtv with negative people. If a "what if" scenario happens, I'll deal with it then. Nonpoint wasting my time worrying about it now. Universe only knows how much wasted time I've soent worrying for nothing. I'm trying to move out of that pattern. So I'm changing things up and taking chances. Which feels good, no longer hiding away about what happened. Took a while though, everyone needs to emerge in their own time.
Yes. I dated two in a row and they messed with my head so bad that I couldn't get along with anyone. But I also work with a ton of them
I told a friend (I’m not sure if she’s a narcissist herself or just a flying monkey) that I needed one day to just focus on work and my own thoughts, and she told me it felt like I “set her on fire.”
I swear, any boundaries set will make them ANGRY.
I was going through chemotherapy and hence not too active at the time. One day My narc bf came home from work and I mentioned I had done some errand or whatnot that day bc I felt up to it and he said something to the effect of "that's good it's been a while since you've done something with yourself." I told him that was hurtful since I already hated the fact I had to go through chemo and feel like shit.. response? My interpretation was incorrect and I was too sensitive, probably from what I was going through - unstable, you name it. Not him whatsoever. We're no longer together but I wish I left his ass a lot sooner. I was the perfect vulnerable little pawn for him to play around with.
I've been splurging on all your videos and wanted to express my deep gratitude for your work. I don't think I could have understood how dangerous these people are without your explanations that describe their behavior so concisely. You're out here changing lives 🙏🙌
Okay, so here's the thing: while they are trying to hurt you or get a reaction from you, they are *predictable* in their intent, so the only way to fight back is to be *totally unpredictable* (like literally think of something off the wall while they are yabbering). While you can get away from narcs in your family, you can't always get away from them at work. In order for these people not to sabotage you and compete with you, you have to do something they don't expect. Unfortunately, an acting job is required to get them to disengage and feel like you aren't worth being cruel and miserable to, even if you are talented. Things I have done:
* yawned continuously while they are talking, and acted so sleepy that I could barely comprehend them
* tell them that I have to speed to the bathroom
* walk towards them so that I am practically in their face (like I can't hear them unless I am practically nose to nose)
* when they throw out concepts and word salad, I'm constantly looking at my phone pretending I need to look up words and facts
* tell them that I contracted a contagious disease and I *think* I am getting over it
* tell them I'm coming down with something and they might want to keep their distance
* acted like I totally didn't understand when they talked about feelings, like if they said "I'm hurt that you --", I might say "So, what you're telling me is that you're angry that --" ... it is what they do (word salad arguments, dodge and deflect), but unfortunately it's the only language they understand. The difference is that I do it to get away from them, and they do it to get me roped into an emotional argument and to dominate me. Believe me, you'll leave the narcissist confused instead of wanting to dominate you
* I make everything I say ironic (narcissists are the least in touch with irony, but everyone else around you will get it)
* act like Richard from "Keeping Up Appearances": when he's getting orders from the narcissist, he'll repeat the orders verbatim loudly and with just a whisper of sarcasm, and if he's caught at "sounding sarcastic" he'll play dumb: "Why no, why would I ever be sarcastic when YOU are talking? EVERYTHING you are saying is SO IMPORTANT!""
In general, being creative in your responses takes them off guard because they only know how to be predictable. They try different ways to hurt you and disable you, but that's as far as their creativity goes. They are mostly known for making an impulsive devastating impact rather than long-term devious thinking.
Misadventures with angry alcoholics, bullies, narcissists the discussion of aging and mortality really scares the hell out of them.
This indeed works. My Narc friend use to always over talk me while I was talking, Walk in front of me so she could be in the lead. So if I do have to interact with her if I'm talking and she starts to over talk me I just let her keep talking I grab my phone and start looking up stuff and pay her no attention. When she walks in front me so she can be in the lead I purposely start walking slower start looking at my phone while she looks like a damn fool. It eats at her so much. She cannot handle it.
You forgot to touch on the positioning of what is said, I think that's the most indirect way they have of hurting you. They just position their words in ways to create associations, and thus plant thoughts in your head. That's why they use a lot of useless words and irrational sayings. Because it's not enough HOW they say it, if it's not really saying anything directly, it's WHEN they say it, that is also needed to truly achieve an effect. Think about it!
Aleksandar Yes. There was this one expression said at a specific situation, on multiple occasions, in a certain tone. I had forgotten it. Then one day, years later, after not seen or spoken to the narc, living my life, my husband says to me "yes, but..." something simple about chores I think, and I flipped. I remember the look on his face because he had no clue what he had done wrong. Nor did I. But I was angry. We figured something had triggered. But that's all. After another time, we realised that this common phrase was it. So we delved deep to figure it out and the memory returned of how the narc would use it as a means to control and coerce me. My husband did his best to rephrase at times, but there is no knowing when something will trigger. There are less today than before. But had my husband not said that to me, I would have never figured out some of the details I needed to remember in order to heal some more. Trauma has deep roots. And all derived from what, how and when something is said. Not to worry, I don't flip anymore, I recognise triggers, and express it and analyse how it's making me feel. Much healthier, for me and my relationship.
I know you understand by now, those triggers are manually installed by the Narc. Each trigger is a button, and they build a whole keyboard before they ever play the first note! The narc I had to deal with super covert, was using microtriggers, also mostly based on positive emotions(falsly charged, but positive still). He went for a very complex combination of triggers in the end in order to push me to do what he wants, it became so visible, I saw it all, no matter the friendship and the familiar smile and whatever...Anyways, once you have planted the test and it has returned positive, you are on the other side, period.
The sick person is pulling some barbaric form of mind-control on you, to get a kick out of it, but also benefit where possible. You , a much smarter person(more often than not) have been led by the nose by the means of simple put-downs, misdirections, shouts, shifts of topics, made-up situations and just a bunch of child tricks, coated up with sugary, sugary niceness and a wacky story about something else. He never told you what to think, only what to think about, again and again. Cherry-picking the topics every time he sees a conversation go in an unwanted direction, not answering, lying with a smile on his face.
So, yes, because you are the one doing all the work and using all your energy to keep things moving, they have the energy to track your flow of information, "train" you "useful" skills and "ïdeas", and make you JUST CLICK AND TICK HIS WAY!!! He will make you feel tired, bored, in pain, smiling, in pain again, uncomfortable, shy, confused, ashamed, weak, strong, funny, stupid, bad, wrong and anything really...he will push all your buttons like an angry child, anything to get his way! But he isn't doing it, you're imagining things dear, here's another story about something else... ;)
Aleksandar I adore your description of it. It is so accurate. And I can relate to the keyboard. I'm a writer and a gamer. I use the keyboard not only to put thoughts into words but also to control my characters, make them jump, move forward, select which ability to use in a fight. In swtor, there are "emotes" and we can give facial expressions and things to our characters. The narc decides what "emote" he wants his enabler in. Anyway, all to say the comparison is a relatable one. I'm glad I don't have as many triggers as I used to. Yet still too many. I need to be patient with myself sometimes because I feel that after ten years I should be more healed than I am. Then again, I am more healed than I was and so much better for it. I will use your comparison when talking with certain people who may or may not understand how I may have lost my identity of self during that relationship. The hard part is getting people to understand why it still affects me and why I can't just get over it in words they can understand, while trying not to judge myself.
In the times I started to realize myself, my Narc had trained me to farm WoW Gold for him. Well , it was for us, except he always spent all of it for himself, saying it would boost the guild we had. He spend all 1 million gold to buy ENDGAME items for all 9 of his characters, and in the end wanted to buy something small instead of main weapon for my main character. He insisted with all his emotional energy this was part of some plan and something we are doing together. I started to push him very seriously over what he has done, espessaily over the last few purchases, and istead of backing-up he went full nutjob. He had made some previous bad comments about my online characters as a joke, so he started to extend those same comments towards my identity using custom language and wierd noises. I remember the day I realized it all, I turned on WoW and started farming without even thinking of it, even though I was angry before. This freaked me out and made me found all those videos, which explained to me how some people have...different operating systems let's say :D Of course he was a piece of shit all his life, but I've finally figured him out, it's kind of a great success actually :) Now I spot this manipualtive, greasy stonewalling and have cut out a few more people from my life as a result. Ye, quit smoking after that, np :) :)
Aleksandar That's insane, the method he used. Mine used video games to try to "train" my brother. The way my bro describes it, he felt sleepy but cozy and felt as though the narc was making him his apprentice of evil, and he didn't agree with what he was being taught about how to get people to do what you want them to, but he wanted more of it, and it also indicates some of the methods he used as it exposes him now. He worked my bro, he worked my best friend, all so that I would look even less legit if I spoke ill of him.
You are a wonderful blessing. These messages infuse life into me. I want to thank you for all your hard work. Words cannot express the pain when the Narcissist is disloyal and cheats constantly. Lack of empathic feeling, the embodiment of evil. But in thier minds its all your fault.
it freaks me out... when u explain everything I was feeling and what I thought .. what and how he was talking to me. ... when all that was happening to me....you explain things that were such insignificant moments of such significance to me.... and I dismissed it to myself when it was happening.😣
Yes the invalidation is the fundamental aspect of the umbrella of their abuse, it's always there and can't be seen or proven
Passive aggression appears in almost every interaction,, combined with insinuation that they are superior, with vast knowledge that can only benefit me. A trap to wear me down, the manipulation is extremely covert
This explanation rings so true. One of the communicative things I experience over and over is her ability to both overtly compliment and almost in the same breath criticize in such a subtle way that it's nearly impossible to point it out, but I feel it like being stabbed in the gut with a kitchen knife! Any time I've attempted to confront, it's deflected with reminders about all the times she compliments and "supports" me. If I happen to say something that carries any weight whatsoever, I can count on it being used later as a subtle or sometimes not so subtle whipping. It's maddening and so very sad at the same time.
I want to add one more thought. Not only do they do this to intimidate, invalidate, etc., they do it so that eventually you give up arguing/discussing things of importance with them. I think that’s exactly how they want it because that’s all they’re capable of. They also have control of you and the situation in their own perverted way.
In my experience, she (my ex narc) would literally redefine the definition of commonly used words. The argument would be taken into places completely unrelated to what I was trying to express and eventually we would be arguing about the definition of a word like “promise”.
I’d eventually get so angry I would just walk away. Had I known what I was dealing with at that time I could’ve handled it so much differently.
I feel like the more he gets me frustrated and mad that it is comforting him and calming him and then I am left with so much anger and hating that I fell for it again
Thanks for all your help over the last year or so. Much healing has occurred and I owe at least some of that healing to you.
This is one of the best narc videos I've ever come across, and I've been researching this for years now.
yes, their narc environment needs to be propped up just for them. They need a validation that they will win in this environment. It's like having all the facts of the future and knowing how to steer your way through them. They want all the cards and not one card is for you! If you were to get a card they would be insulted and mad you got a card.
Two things narcissistic bosses have said to me:
Just as I was going out of the door from a yearly review one boss told me that there would be no promotions in the team nor would there be any bonuses. Two weeks later a friend and colleague in the team was promoted. Around 2 months later when I was sick of the boss and handed in my resignation I received what was the biggest bonus I had ever received. unfortunately for the business I handed in my resignation three days before I knew of the bonus and the bonus came into my account. The boss did not have time to stop the bonus.
Another boss I have had was explaining something to me very quickly so I asked if he could slow down, he snapped and said 'I am not going fast you are the one jumping to conclusions and thinking too quickly'. On several occasions this boss told me he knew what I was thinking so eventually I asked him "what am I thinking" and he sort of fumbled and said something so general that it covered pretty much every single possibility.
Oh, and my mother was a narcissist too...
Scott it is such a relief to hear you articulate the things I had to learn the hard way. And the comments are also extremely helpful and true. It's a club I'm pretty sure none of us signed up for.
So, recently my husband has been working on going VLC with his narc parents. His mother has been trying every trick in the book to hoover him back in, but there is **ALWAYS** an emotion she's going for (guilt and shame being at the top of her list). Recently, she sent him a message saying that they are currently visiting relatives and that "they, like us, are aging" (before she then went on to update him on how they are all doing otherwise). Oh, and she mentioned the aging thing once again in a separate note to him about the rellies as well...so twice, just in case he missed it the first time. LOL
Clearly, the underlying emotion she's going for here is guilt. Translation: feel guilty and sad that you aren't really speaking to me because I am an old, feeble woman who might die soon."
So, the main tone of the message is fairly benign, but there is ALWAYS some little hit at the emotions (usually towards the beginning of the message, to sort of "set the tone", I assume).
She's also the same person who would start a webcam visit with my husband (in years past) with "Oh, you're gaining some weight/look a little chubby"...you know, instead of "Oh, I'm so glad to see your face! I've missed you!". (and for the record, he has been the same weight for the last 10 or so years and is a very normal weight, not that that should matter.)
She always has to drop the insult or attempt to make you somehow feel bad right there at the beginning, and then she'll switch gears and try to make it all sound fine, so that you sit and wonder if you should really be upset about it because the rest of the communication seemed (for the most part) benign.
The cycle of communication is of course, a HUGE topic of discussion. What I mean by that is, most of our "emotional" heavy discussions get caught up in a very cyclical quagmire in the wonderful land of "meta-communication". No longer are we are "talking", it becomes an issue with "how" I am expressing. Now, I do have an extensive vocabulary and tend not to use it against another person...I allow clarification of words and/ or ideas expressed to be clarified according to the sender's "intention"... What I have found is my words and quite often, a single word will stop the communication, because I used a word that carries some undefined trigger for my narcissist. Not only am I unable to clarify, but my "word" should have been another one, or often hides my "true" negative view of whatever we are no longer talking about. His definition of the "word" is standardized across the English language, and my narrow definition...well I should have known that no one else would pick up what I'm putting down. I am held to a static lexicon, that only he can define and seemingly rewrite anytime he doesn't want to communicate. If I thought more carefully chosen words would get "us" out of this cycle, I would be wrong. It is at that point that my very simple speech, well it just hides ill-content, in which he has read between the lines perfectly and now gets to ascribe whatever message he wants to it. Ugh!!!
Holly Cook LOL!!! So accurate ,even if you attempt to speak to them at the kindergarten, level . You will be accused of "using your education or learned knowledge" , against them. Hahaha By the end I just spoke like I wanted too. Dude, had no idea, what I was saying (let alone feeling or thinking) which gave him an excuse, to drink more and smoke crack. So, even if you spoke in the correct tone , using the smallest, words. Your narc will find another way to avoid the issues. Their craziness, is boundless!
Man you are so spot on with this. I really enjoy your videos .you put them in simple terms to understand .
You are so amazing! You provide such an immeasurable service!
Yes, they need your feelings to survive. So true. Profound Scott.
They want u to think ur the ugliest most worthless person, but won't leave u alone. Instead of convincing themselves u are not worth stalking, they think somehow making u believe these things will help them
Well said brother - they just don't any understanding of how to connect emotionally with people. And, you can't have a relationship with someone, if there's no emotional channel between the two. That's precisely what they do - suffocate the other person emotionally.
Still looking at your videos TODAY I will move away from my narcissist on 23 july 2020. And I will do a serie of video's like your's in french to "get it out of my system". THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
Thank you Scott:) I appreciate you making your videos and learn a great deal from you:)
One of the tricks I remember was the overuse of certain hackneyed phrases, almost as if the sociopath was testing them during a period of time (or maybe he just repeated himself a lot and changed the phrases over time). The purpose of these phrases was to imply some information that was not true or to confuse, for example:
Coming home from a long day at work
-Did you buy food for dinner?
-Oh, I couldn't buy any food because I've been really busy doing the dishes 'and so on'.
(He did the dishes and spent the rest of the day playing videogames but 'and so on' makes you think that he did a lot of house chores).
-Are you feeling better today?
-'Yes and no'.
-What do you mean yes and no?
-Yes, I've been able to get out of bed, but I had a headache and have not been able to study.
(Never an easy answer. There was a time in which he would literally answer 'Yes and no' to any closed-ended question, it was exhausting and confusing)
Those are simple examples but his communication was always distorted and prefabricated.
Dude is just avoidant, that doesnt't make someone narcissistic lol
having finally I think been able to cut ties with my narcissistic I little him abuser and listening to your video it's it's putting those small pieces of the puzzle it's the glue that holds together all the pieces that I could not put together it just makes it all so Crystal Clear thank you so much
Incredibly helpful and validating, thank you.
man you know your stuff its exactly like that !! ,great work!!
Yesss, I knew thats what was happening but I couldn't articulate it the way you did. Thanks!
Ummmhum!!! Oh my you are describing it exactly!!!! Its like they set a trap constantly for you.
Scott, I like you and the way your present your aguments. You make me inquire more deeply into my already inquisitive and theoretical mind to come up with even more ways to put these ideas together. I watched this video a second time and then slept on it, and that may have been the key, When I awake I started thinking and writing and came up with ways that what you are saying about what "they" are saying and how the real result is in "how you feel", could also be about "the destruction as an accomplishment over time". The missing piece in how I viewed it may be that the results in what is happening show only over time. ..over time being the point. How covert! How manipulative! (Not You.) How devious in the waiting and the adjusting and the actually fruition of the destructive intent because it is a function over time. You can slap a rock and see no visible difference over time. But if you slap a human spirit over time in a way that is not detected and therefore not healed each time, you can pride yourself in significant destruction, but again, only something you can then see over time! We can not longer put Anything Past these Narc's. The ego hit must be explosive and capable of taking the Narc on a long trip of self-adulation when they accomplish long-term goals. Am I wrong. Please feel free to mention this if it interests you, or let us know if this is what you have been saying all along.
Scott, I really enjoyed this video. I found that communication videos are a good subject for a series. You're RIGHT Narcs have their own language.
Its all so darn subtle...so logical and yet so studied. And with the innocent baby face...he still is at it as i live in his property and im unwell. Learning though. Thanks Scott!
THIS is AMAZING. thank you for sharing
You always hit the proverbial nail on the head! Thank you
Tolly Scott yes, he does.
Wow this just really opened my eyes because it described very clearly and accurately what he does to me. Which really scares me because I've had a hard time really figuring out if I was right that he's a narcissist and this pretty much confirms it, I just need to trust my perception of reality instead of allowing his to confuse me.
You have nailed it!
Every time I watch one of your videos I'm amazed that there is actually somebody else out there who is just like my ex and somebody else that has dealt with what I dealt with before and after being married to him. For 17 years I had no idea what was wrong or what was happening and I thought I was crazy. I would always tell him it's HOW he says things to me or HOW he talks to me, but his response is/was always, "I don't do anything to you. It's the way you take it or your perception of what I said" or he would point out how I always"try to make it seem like" he's doing this or that. He would sit me down and explain to me how the way I think about things and perceive things are different from everybody else..it was always like a chatisement.
Yes, that's it! Thank you ☺
Thank you so much for your videos , they are helping me understand more every day. I'm involved with a narcissist and he will say things like " I thought you were a risk taker" when I refuse to go and do something he wants me to do . I can feel then that he's trying to manipulate me. He also pulls a lot of faces when I'm speaking. He will look at me as if I have said something really stupid. I can feel it and see him for what he is and even though I'm not completely involved with him or see him that often. I'm still seeing him. I know this is more to do with my own self esteem. He does it as you say though, in such a covert way that it's not enough for me to call him out. If I ask "why are you rolling your eye's?" He doesn't answer as if he hasn't heard me! It's so weird. I need to stop meeting with him. I'm disappointed in myself I guess . Thanks again for your videos
thanks for sharing those 'right on' thoughts...
so true....
So insightful.
the sun starts shining in when all lies...deception falls away....when that happens they go running because they know the lights shining in and their not going to stick around for that
Really good one.
so accurate and so helpful
Brilliant channel!
Absolutely true. They talk meanly, tersley and commanding even on simple stuff. Then when you call them out they will say "oh I was just letting you jnow" or "that's how I talk" or the best one is "why you getting defensive? "
Your insights are amazing. You have a gift. We -(the unsuspecting victims ) are fortunate to have your guidance, even if we have signs ourselves of being programmed as a child to think like narcissistic parents (?) the subject you are focusing on promises relief from emotional pain thru successful detachment. May the Celestial Blessings of God’s Life Force Continue to be with you ...
Thank you !