Personal Protection: 5.7x28 Ammo Selection (Featuring Black Dragon Fang)
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2023
- Paul tests some 5.7x28 ammo and decides which works best in his gun.
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Brad Nelson - minutemantheory.com
Paul's absolute disdain for the marketing nonsense on the boxes is fantastic.
And despite all that super hero nonsense, none are as recognized as Winchester "White box" !
His disdain for prize winning crushes my spirits 😢
His (open? near?) disdain for extreme preppers lifts my spirits.
"I'm just reading it."
@@Salieri47 And his disdain for " Fashion range jackets "
Paul's dedication to meeting the requests of his audience without compromising his standards is impressive.
If Paul sold his own ammo it would be sold in a plain brown cardboard box labeled “Ammunition: Shut Up & Shoot It”
One of the most educational and well-spoken gun channels on UA-cam. I come away from every video a more informed consumer and enthusiast. And with a craving for Pop-Tarts
frosted strawberry master race
@@bakedpagan4674 excellent choice but I prefer the blueberry
@@bakedpagan4674 Peach Cobbler and Cherry are my favorites.
@@Kriss_LPeach Cobbler was discontinued... It was the best. RIP in peace 🍑 cobbler.
@@mattmarzula :(
Wish we could have seen Paul's face when dealing with the multiple malfunctions on the black fang meat target !
Close to a mil subscribers mate. I'm sure thats not your priority, but you damn well deserve it. Keep up the great things you've been doing for so long.
78.5% of a million is not close to a million.
@@robtex99 Hey, we're trying to be positive here...
Its not that close, buuuut, its much closer than when i joined, ~3 months ago.
robtex99 Gotta agree, and I but Paul himself would say the same.
Paul could probably bump his subs by going more for tactical accessories, but then he would lose some of what makes him Paul Harrell.
Salieri47 What a disgrace that would be. I speak for EVERYONE when we say we’re all glad he’s not selling out and doing the same kind of crap review videos that every youtuber has gotten sucked into.
Thank you Paul and crew for your hard work. I was interested when 5.7 came out, the cost and availability were just not acceptable for me. You have educated, entertained and saved me money. Much appreciated.
Well said. Your comment should be pinned, but Paul would (most likely) consider pinning a compliment in poor taste.
@@Salieri47 You are right, he doesn't seem like someone that needs their own ego stroked like too many of the "tactical" presenters. I have confidence in recommending his videos to new/young shooters as well as those who grew up with guns. Stay safe.
I like the idea of 5.7 but in practice it doesn't seem that great.
@@theman4884 I blame it largely on the fact that it. took it over 20 years to become a "standard" NATO munition, so basically no one but low volume, poor producers and FN produce the ammo. It's also why 5.7 is so damn expensive.
I wouldn't say that's true as of right now, we're seeing a lot of producers pick up and experiment with this ammo and best of all with S&W's new M&P 57 handgun, we're seeing the lowest cost of all time to enter the 5.7 market. I give it maybe another year or two before we see a flood of quality self defense ammunition and even more new firearms.
4.6x30mm is also potentially getting ready to enter the wider commercial market, but given that it also lost out to 5.7x28mm in military contracts, I'm not seeing it ever become as popular as 5.7, if it ever gets beyond the CMMG Banshee and a few other cottage firearms.
Great idea putting the chronograph stuff in a different video. It's a win win for everybody including people looking for that information and people not looking for that information.
Another factor: A separate vid can generate additional income. I'll watch it to see the malfunctions and inconsistencies.
Another idea is to put it at the end of the video. Idk if it's a good idea, since it was my idea, but it is an idea.
I've been looking forward to hearing Paul's take on 5.7 as a CCW round! What a great way to start the morning.
He has an earlier video on it with non-3A meat target you can lookup.
@@davidmack4185 5.7 is going to do even better than 380 for not overpentrating considering it's a very low penetration round on wet targets. Light fast bullets tend to break up going through walls and provide less danger of ricochet as well.
@@PineyJustice but it has the same effectiveness of a .22, while costing dramatically more. you basically weigh them down with bullets or put so many holes in them they leak too much. at least if youre doing center mass, a headshot is the same at any caliber.
@@bradhaines3142 No, there is a dramatic difference between a 5.7 or 22tcm and even 22 mag in gel disruption, these rounds have greater gel disruption than even the best 9mm hollowpoints. By your standard 5.56 is also just a .22.
@PineyJustice This statement is 100% accurate...
@bradhaines3142 If you try to make a case that the 5.7x28mm is reasonably comparable to the .22lr you would need to either 1. lie or 2. be ignorant of the "hydrostatic shock" variable... In a nutshell, this is the element that "melts" or "liquefies" the interstitium, tissue, and vascular system components. This variable causes instant central nervous system failure and unquantifiable visceral bleedout...
Only UA-camr that leads his class and needs to change nothing....but does and always in a positive way. Chrono closeup appreciated.
I was amazed that I didn't see a Ruger Five-Seven flying into frame and striking the meat target somewhere during all that off-camera fighting to get it to feed 'Black Dragon Fang' rounds.
Paul is beyond most people's intelligence.
Not only that; but he's actually a pretty smart feller on an absolute scale as well.
ok
@@PeterWolfe2012 Agreed. He has to have a genius or near genius IQ.
Yeah, I thought he was sus at first. Then I just realized I was a bit out of my depth.
Man knows his stuff for sure
I'll listen to Paul talk about Deep Penetrating Solids any day of the week.
That right there is a great band name.
From the '90s, maybe.
@@DANO-4899 You're not entirely wrong. Given the name would also shorten to "DPS" I could see them scoring a Boltgun sequel.
Yellow Snow Blower would have been an awesome 90s band name.
Good stuff. This entry proves more and more that this is the "Paul Harrell and His Viewers Show". This man really reads video comments and takes cues from audience likes and dislikes. No one else I know about does this. And the ever controversial chronograph segment gets its own video this time. 👍
Dang. Now I gotta pop them tarts
This review just saved me about $500 and 2 months of shipping. I’m sticking with V-Max and SS195. Thank you sir
ss195lf (27 gr.),ss198lf (27 gr.)and ss197sr(v-max)40 gr. is the way to go.
SS 192 is great however it does cycle better in the PS90
I’ve Been waiting on the no nonsense data on the 5.7 that only Paul can deliver! Great video 👍
Who is Ben? You better let him go.
@@Hjerte_Verke thanks for catching that lol
I’ve been 😁
Thats true
20:02 Gotta love the comedy gold of BDF ammo turning Paul's pistol into a bolt action.
Thanks Paul for ferreting out some potential issues with poor quality assurance with some ammunition manufacturers.
I like the new layout with the separate Chrono and the larger display with results. Not that I don't like looking at you, I just like the cardboard with the numbers more. :) I'll definitely be checking out the Chrono presentation.
Thanks for your efforts on our behalf!
Should've started the video with "Hi, We're at our range today so please bare with the crickets."
Great presentation as always Paul and team!
Ironically, when shooting the Black Dragon ammo, the gun didn't go fang all the time.
Paul video? YES please!
Next poptarts ad needs to be you kneeling next to a scattered box of PTs, with your handgun next to it, like a "successful hunt" picture. Gotta earn them pops.
Let's get that out onto a tray. Nice
Thanks for this presentation on 5.7x28mm ammo. I appreciate that making two shorter videos is more difficult than making one longer video and I appreciate your effort. First, I get information more quickly without bothering to scroll through the video, and second, the tedious chronograph video gives me the shot-by-shot information on ammunition performance.
How often did your teachers demand that you 'show your work?'
Thank you, Paul. I am definitely considering buying a 5.7X28mm pistol, and watching for developments in ammunition technology & production/availability. You've saved me some trouble by evaluating these for us.
Why? For fun?
@tylerspunucious7420 The ballistics are interesting. For self defense, a round which dumps so much energy into a target without overpenetrating could be a very good thing. But I'm wanting to see a few more developments (and maybe lower costs) before I commit to buying.
stick with the original ps90. 5.7 wasn't designed for pistols.
Sold mine, in my opinion it’s overrated.
@@hannibalharkonnen7612 Interesting! Thanks for sharing your point of view! (How might you rate a 5.7 as a "little old lady" pistol?)
Yep, Pop-Tarts, my favorite snack treats. Blueberry and Strawberry.
Another great teaching. Many thanks to you and your team.
I see we’re returning to flintlock pistol levels of accuracy. Tally ho, lads
I'm pretty sure 22 stingers out of my ancient Beretta 71 probably better... 😂
One went high , one went low , where T H the other one go ! 😂😂😂
That's what happens when you have too much money and want to piss it away on gimmick ammo.
Now we know why the 5.7 needs such. High capacity Magazine! So you can compensate for the poor grouping.
@@ericconyers8972 Spray and Pray is the 5.7 motto
I'm not sure what the value in ammo that doesn't feed correctly or eject properly might be.
Sounding badass.
While the results or lack there of are always appreciated it saves the rest of us a lot of time and money to figure out what doesn't work! That being said it's good to see manufacturers working on new offerings for this caliber. I've had a fiveseven for a long time and have been patiently waiting for the world to discover it again! It finally looks like that might just happen!! Thank you sir for everything you and your crew do for us!!
Another great presentation, Paul ! Thanks.
Nice presentation. Thanks for putting it together.
I carry a Ruger 57 for CCW periodically. I'm currently using the 40gr Fiocchi VMAX for that purpose. I've had the best accuracy with that so far. I also noticed that my Ruger 57 wasn't as accurate as i thought it should be until after the break-in period.
I like how fast and flat they shoot. I've also noticed increased accuracy after adding a Trijicon RMR, no surprise there. The 20+1 is nice as well.
I don't carry 5.7 as ccw, but do train with it occasionally.
I just change my protocols to a six shot minimum standard response, and it's certainly viable. With 24rds on tap, no reason to be stingy.
The slide speed (use a cheap PSA Rock) is incredible. Fast cycling and a flat shooter
The fiocchi range pack has been a god send in terms of being able to get cheap reliable 57 ammo at less than 50 cents a round. For training purposes at least.
I've shot the FN 5.7, the Ruger 5.7, and the Smith and Wesson 5.7. Across all ammo types, distances, and conditions, Ruger was the "least accurate" and Smith and Wesson was the best. I don't know what it is with the Ruger, it just doesn't perform as well as the others. It's probably the most comfortable, though. Maybe I need to break it in more. S&W was great out of the box, except the magazine issues.
@@mikepelosi9877 Sounds like you may have just gotten a bad draw on the quality control. I've trained with T6B and got good grouping at 15-25. It does have an odd trigger, out of the box, but no worse than the FN. If you aren't using it, make sure you're doing the "one piece". If you're right handed, use right hand to grip front to back only. Use only left hand for aiming, left hand grip only side to side. Palms on the rear coming together to create "one piece", making the grip virtually impossible to see between them. Somebody should be able to slap the tip of the firearm up & down, left & right, without your wrists breaking.
@@mikepelosi9877 Was looking into picking up the S&W one.. though wasnt sure about the gas-operated mechanics they went with over direct blowback.
The first part of the video really had me wondering, I'd never seen Paul put out such lousy groups, and from a rest?! Seeing it happen so often with different ammo I was wondering if the pistol's barrel was properly attached, lol! All in all the video just kept me at the point I started at, my .38 Colt snubby is staying right where it is. Thanks for another very informative video, Paul!
Paul, you truly are a master of your craft, each and every video should legitimately be worth money and be taught to every gun owner anenthusiasts. Thank you for everything you do Paul.
16:50 I make it 12.7% more energy in the BDF relative to the FN, at the expense of not knowing what you're going to hit.
Great work as always Paul
Im going to download this video and the chronograph video - combine them - and watch them as originally intended. I was here before the new crowd blew in and ruined it.
Hahaha
Not interested in this caliber of ammunition. ABSOLUTELY interested in anything PH has to say about any firearm or ammunition. The king of common sense! Thank you.
I’m not sure he would be a fan of how you managed to contradict yourself so blatantly, but I’m sure he understands your point
Wouldn't be my choice for a carry ammo either, but his demo's are fantastic
Excellent presentation as always, I did buy an S&W 57, and this video arrives just in time.
Thank you and keep up the good work.
I think Paul Harrell is in the top 10 UA-cam gun tubers ever. I cannot believe it when people were asked to drive his subscribers over 1,000,003 days ago that happened. Thank you everyone and God bless Paul.
This guy is my favorite gun/ammo reviewer. He talks fast and uses a lot of technical terms, and yet I understand everything he's saying. I'm a new subscriber, wish I found his work a long time ago!
Thank you Mr. Harrell for a useful vidja as usual.
I have seen a number of folks putting out vids of their shooting the "Obsidian Dragon Fang" ammo and no one has showcased its strengths and weaknesses ANYWHERE as clearly as this one so KUDOS for that.
Too bad it seems to be more gimmicky than innovative.
I am STILL a big notional fan of 5.7 but not having actually used it myself I am happy to see you give me useful information for future reference.
CHEERS!
I would like to defend the 5.7 round. It is a good alternative for older folks and women. Women carry purses so the size of the firearm is not a great concern. The recoil of this round is minimal. With quality ammo (FN or AAC or Fiocchi) you can get decent groups. My wife is lethal with her PSA ROCK. I like to shoot it too- so I bought one for me as well. Everyone I have let shoot the ROCK has enjoyed the function and accuracy of this firearm.
(I worry about purse/bag carry in crowded settings - I grew up in a large city where abrupt/surprising purse snatching was sadly common.)
Valid points. I don't know what a Rock is. The firearms are not what is in question most of the time. This is an ammo comparison. This caliber fits a very narrow niche group. If recoil is an issue it is probably the better caliber over .32 auto, .25 auto, .22LR, and similar.
@@clocksurfer In Houston last week a pregnant woman drew from her purse to defend her husband from a goblin with a gun.
Wholesome family entertainment.
Is she using optics?
I laughed at 5.7 when considered as an actual weapon instead of as a range plinker.
Yeah, fun round.
Then, for just shits and giggles I tried a Bill Drill with a PSA Rock.
So. I'm open to it now. 1.44sec from concealed holster at 10yds. I'm no speed demon either, a good shot but nothing exceptional.
So...if you're open to changing your tactics and training protocol, it certainly is valid as a defense weapon.
Seriouy, you're at 23+1, you can train a minimum standard response of four or six rounds easy enough.
Fantastic content as always.
The amount of time between shots tells me a lot about the reliability, & Paul's efforts to shoot as accurately as possible.
Re body armor several recent mass shooters have worn it (not that most of us will ever face such a situation).
That guy in New York was. The black dragon fang seemed effective...
if you can hit the target.
They are idiots if they are not wearing level 4 body armor to stop Ar-15’s the cops will use to respond. 5.7 is the most ridiculous excuse for a self defense round not to mention an aggressive DA will make you out to be a mass murder using the evil 5.7 so you could shoot through body armor of cops. Always use mainstream calibers and guns for carry until the balloon goes up and its wrol.
Just practice eye box shots. The amount of energy these have left after penetrating body armor is negligible and they likely won't penetrate deep enough to hit vitals. That and they aren't going fast enough to cavitate like a rifle round so all these are going to do is punch a small .22 hole. Bring a pack of 3×5 cards to the range and train till you can hit them on command at like 7 yards then just push the speed and distance. I saw gabe white hit a moving tennis ball at around 7 yards in 1.42 seconds from the holster if I remember correctly. The thing is that 99% of people don't take classes or actually train with their gun. They'll take it to a range, put up a target at 7 yards and turn a bunch of money into noise. The whole punching through body armor with carry ammo is just stupid and shows people will spend money on litterally anything but training or a shot timer lol
@@jg-ub4ekPracticing quick fire using a 3" x 5" target is useful. I use a 3 x 5 index card to outline portrait targets on the range target and my targets (I get some weird looks, & a few compliments). A shot timer *might* be useful, but only for the people who become dedicated to using them. And even then how many average people who carry a handgun will need to use it in a "quick draw & fire" situation?
Of course extra training JIC doesn't hurt.
Beautiful chronograph transition. Thank you.
If defeating body armor is your goal, that black tipped 30-06 is pretty good at it. If 5.7x28 is your only gun, ammo that goes where you're looking seems to be top priority.
NO no...remove the 30 06 tip and reload it into a 300 Win Mag....that's the ticket...Demolition Ranch had a 300wm AR that would be cool
The good 5.7 for actually piercing is still out of our hands.
So yeah, just accept that it's "acceptable" power and not much more, and try to find juice that's consistent
If your opponent is wearing body armor, just go with pelvic bowl or head shots
@@mikeseigel6566pelvis shots all day, bigger target and it’ll make them drop like a sack of ‘taters, head shots are cool too but with a pistol in a high stress situation with a target that’s likely to be moving… yeah I’m not John wick 🤣🤣 2 to the chest 1 to the head/pelvis just like the marine corps taught me.
I really like the way this video was edited. Big thanks to Paul and crew
It is good that more companies are manufacturing 5.7x28. Easier to find something that might work for you.
I would like to see him retest the meat target with the carbine
Someone needs to contact pop tarts about these amazing Paul Harrell ads I can’t wait to see one in a shooting illustrated.
Another great video. Thanks, Paul.
If it took Paul a good 10 seconds to un-jam his pistol and cycle in another round, it's going to take the average guy a good 30 seconds to a minute. Even if those bullets could penetrate tanks, you're going to get shot and it's going to be game over before you get the first jam out.
Damn. I was hoping for a montage. Thanks as always Paul.
I appreciate how thorough you are, and your sarcasm. Good stuff.
Another great video sir. Thank you
Paul is such a reliable straight shooter - pun, kind of intended
My brain didn’t register the crickets and meadow sounds until I paused the video and was surprised by the odd quiet. Credit to my parents for raising me in the right places.
Thanks, as always, great information.
Great Channel !!
Once again, great info, sir!
I think this presentation does show that a lot of typical big box 5.7 ammunition is not loaded to the full potential of the cartridge.
Yes - 40 gr VMAX can easily exceed 1900 fps w/o being toooo high.
And really, start approaching 2000 fps or even beyond.
~2100 fps is where the over-pressure becomes a problem and any company would be crazy to go there.
1825 - 1850 fps should be the minimum, imo. My loads were at 1978 fps and didn't see pressure signs. I'll be loading 40 gr with 1950 fps as my general goal.
His 1691 fps could be the older LOTs of SS197. I've seen recent testers getting closer to 1600 fps, so I suspect they may have slowed that down, like what happened to the Speer GD & the Fed AE both decreased by ~100fps+. Sad
An all too familiar story in this realm of things. Reminds me of the situation 10mm and .357 SIG are in.
Great work. Thanj you.
Life happened. Glad to find you well and with so many subscribers.
Another excellent, informative video from one of the great masters in this subject area.
Always interesting, thank you!
Phenomenal job!!! Just simple logic and common sense as usual from Paul !!!
Paul thinks we want to watch all the shooting and reading of the numbers. What we really want is more Paul time.
Very useful presentation! PLEASE keep testing other brands of 5.7 ammo through your Ruger as they come available to you? This is a new thing on the planet, and makers are just starting to join in. Many of us bought a 5.7 gun expecting higher velocities from all of the hype, but are disappointed at the reality! We eagerly await an available load that lives up to the promise................................elsullo
Excellent and precise as always Paul, I would be very interested in seeing you do a video and your thoughts on the .41 Magnum cartridge. It has an interesting history and is also quite the capable man/beast stopper.
Anyone else SEE the second shot of the DPS accuracy test? I swear you can actually see the bullet with the naked eye flying to the target at 11:27 - 11:28.
Disappointing but extremely useful information. Thanks Paul, please keep up the 5.7 content, i always appreciate your videos
While not too impressive overall, it doesn't seem unsalvageable on the whole.
Just gotta be choosy
Good video Paul thank you
Great video man!!
Woo hood new Paul video!😊
Great video Paul! I think you're missing something though with 5.7x28 use cases. Certainly, most criminals don't use body armor. But mass shooters often do, and I think that's where special consideration needs to be given. If someone happens to find themself in a situation where they are having to defend their life or others against a mass shooter wearing body armor, 5.7x28 is the caliber that they need, and the ability to penetrate body armor is paramount. I think FN's SS198LF is probably the best bet as far as ability to penetrate the body armor, cost, reliability, and accuracy. I'm honestly surprised to see how inaccurate the Black Dragon Fang and T6B ammo was.
@@demezon6572 Alex? Alex Jones? Is that you, Alex? Didn't that obvious and harmful lie already cost you a billion dollars, Alex?
Perhaps a better choice for defending against criminals wearing body armor would be to use TUI ammo. We have a presentation on it.
What if the mass shooter wears Level III or Level IV plates? 5.7x28 will simply not be able to defeat those. A shot to the face, however, does.
@@PaulHarrell Don't think I've seen that one, I'll check it out, thanks Paul! Love your channel
Thanks for making the 5.7x28 Ammo Selection video.
“Leave out the chronograph segment”. Just show the table of results. Excellent idea!
This was such a pleasant presentation.
I was hoping you had the AAC stuff, but stayed for the whole video anyway. Love your stuff Paul
Best gun channel imo, and I love many others
Thanks Paul!
Informative and entertaining 👍
Paul, I would like to see you test a Tisas 1911 A1 Army or Tisas 1911 A1 Service in .45 ACP. These are forged barrel and slide , faithful (basically) reproductions of last century's longstanding US sidearm. These are particularly interesting due to their price, about $400, and their high quality. Thank you for your informative videos.
I've wondered about this as well, I've heard they can be less finicky about ammunition than Rock Island 1911s
@@bobbafett6235@harperhellems3648 I own one of the Tisas A12, and I’m very happy with it. I’d say it is less picky about ammo than many 1911s, however it has a hard time feeding semi-wadcutters and cast bullets. It’s also sensitive to crimp on handloads, I have to use a full-length taper crimp die. I have not had any trouble with commercial ammo, however.
Only other issue is the finish wears pretty easily. I have some patchy areas that look like an upper layer of paint has flaked off.
Watching and hearing Paul say "Deep Penetrating Solid" and "Black Dragon Fang" always makes me laugh. :) Great showcase of all the new gimmicky 5.7 ammo and its performance!
Seriously tempted to send Kellogg a store receipt for some pop tarts along with a thank you for sponsoring Paul's channel! And no, that it was ironic commentary on recent events was not lost on me.
You can practically hear the eye roll in when Paul’s voice when he says “Black Dragon Fang” and it’s fantastic.
Love the channel dry humor at its best,
I brought some pop tarts the other week literally only reason I brought them was seeing them on some of the vids.
Fuck yeah! Glad we got the pop tart intro! Come get with us by Track Tribe is one awesome song too.
You're the man Paul. I'm heavily invested in FN's ammunition and it is nice to see I made the right choice.
Mr. Paul Harrell is one of the very FEW sources of Tactics, Firearms and Ammo information's I trust.
The new pre-intro is funny as F.!!
Interesting accuracy results. My son and I can get "bullseye" groups with Fiocchi Range Dynamics using a Ruger 57, vortex red dot and resting on a Caldwell bag, magazine is contact point. * 25 yards
I have no idea why anyone would ever shoot a pistol from a rest, except possibly for an ammo accuracy comparison, or to sight in a pistol. You’re never going to shoot it from a rest in a self defense situation, so that’s what you should focus on.
@@Shoprestorationthe 😂
What’s funny? Shooting a pistol from a rest has no legitimate purpose outside of tests like this and sighting in a pistol. Beyond that it’s pointless.
@@ShoprestorationtheDidn't the guy in the greenwood incident use a pillar as a rest?
Hard to find a more practical situation than that
“No plastic jugs were damaged in the making of this video.”
"I'm just reading it..." I about died...
always great content
Thank you for splitting the videos and the close up on the velocity chart.