In China, your name will not only find your address and mobile phone number, but also the identity information of your whole family, and even the records of hotel records, hospital records, and online shopping records can be found🥲
@@CNDD-t3b -Thought speaking foreign languages in Chinese based platform has enough of excuses to get cancelled for patriots who wanna farm some social credit nowadays-
"We should aim for the Chinese market" The start of every emotionally damaging, brand damaging, and destructive business decision in the media industry.
For an industry known for its entertainment being unhinged and chaotic (in a comedic way), stepping into a market infamously known for its restrained on freedom of speech (China), always seems like the perfect recipe for a dumpster fire...and they fell right in.
I'll never put entertainment industry in brainwashed- brain-damaged country. The fact majority of people live inside a cage like a chicken in China is... Embarrasing.
As a Chinese audience, I have never dug into this drama this deeply. You let me finally know what was really going on at that time. Great video, much appreciated.
Well it was an unfortunate incident, but in the end, ended up: (1) strengthening hololive like no other (2) brought into light the necessity of standard manuals, emergency response, and overall policy to protect the company and its talents (3) united the fans around the world to stand up against toxic bullying (4) made Kiryu Coco/Kson a legend (5) highlighted the leadership and size of balls Yagoo had (China money was no joke, and with no EN branch, there was no guarantee hololive would make up its lost revenue anywhere else) (6) prompted hololive to go aggressively with its EN project, which launched Myth, which changed the western Vtuber scene forever and brought on explosive expansion of Vtubers in the west, both corporate and indie scene (7) and as an added bonus, this astonishing tale, ended with the "good guys winning" and "bad guys suffering the consequences of their action" -- which, is a rare thing to happen in real life. To have this kind of fairy-tale ending come to life, inspired millions of fans that went through the ordeal together, every step of the way. What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger. And they failed to kill hololive, failed to kill Coco. And all the fans stood against bullshit, and gave support, kept them alive. And now, seeing how holo turned the tables to leave behind all competition and skyrocket and soar, it is a source of great pride and joy for the fans who was there with them every step of the way. -- The End --
I've seen it live as it happens. The day when hololive actually went 100% to western and abandoned ship Chinese market. There's a very quick and emergency meeting when all hololive vtuber got to meet up, highly likely to talk about the future. After that meeting suddenly 5 vtuber went to hololive Reddit, that genuinely the start of hololive ditching CN market.
HoloMyth just debuted during that time so it was still a gamble despite the initial positive reception. Looking at where we are now, Yagoo (and COVER in general) placed their bet on the right horse.
I remember the stream where Coco broke down crying while her roommate comfort her live on stream because the harassment wouldn't stop...I will never forget the pain in her voice. Karma came for the ones that made her cry and they regret it now but I'll never forgive!!
chinese market is always like a gamble ,if cover choose to stick up with the sweet chinese money ,there'll be no hololiveEN ,and the talents will be forced to spend more time doing bilibili-only content which only chinese people watch it. The incident may be unfortunate ,but we're lucky cover chose world market ,so we got the good outcome.
As a Chinese viewer who went through the entire incident, seeing these screenshots brings back some memories that really make me angry. If you can read chinese, you will understand how toxic and disgusting these nationalists' words are. Being a Chinese citizen and also supporting Hololive was really a tough thing in chinese vtuber communities back then. Against these people (just want them to stop harassing these vtubers) and you will get the worst languages ever heard back. I remember back in the early 2010s, there was not much of a nationalist atmosphere in China and also on the internet, but all things changed when Xi came to power. Now China is just a pure sh*thole with Xi's propaganda and his nationalist supporters. Recently, they even made a law that saying something "hurt the feelings of the Chinese nation" is illegal. I feel extremely sad about what happened to the place where I'm living in. Sorry for my poor English.
It can be so hard sometimes to see the beliefs of the Chinese population as more than just "us against them" with how strict the government is in enforcing its nationalist beliefs and conformist culture. That's why I'm always so happy to see any reminder that there are people out there who aren't afraid to speak out. Greetings from Canada, friend. I hope that one day the people of China can live a life free to say what they want.
Didn't China Daily say the phrase "hurting the feelings of the chinese people" at least 88 times throughout beijing olympics 2008? How about blacklisting them from the olympics so the world can never hurt their feelings again?
Something I noticed that you didn't mention in the video that I feel is important to note. Yogiri and Spade Echo didn't take part in the harassment...BECAUSE THEY ARE TAIWANESE. In fact, they both were bullied by the other Hololive CN members for it during the harassment campaign. It hurt because I was a fan of Civia back then. When I found out what she, Artia, and the others did, I admit that I struggled to believe that Civia could have been involved. And then I found out that she was one of the most involved in the harassment next to Artia herself. So now they're all dead to me. I hope for nothing but the best for Yogiri and Spade Echo and hope their futures are bright, but the others do not deserve any sympathy and they will receive none from me.
Civia's role in the incident was complicated though. She was a hostage, and was forced to play-along or else she will be harassed because she is living on the mainland.
@@darwin0922 I thought the one who still in mainland is her parents? last time I heard about her is when she still collage overseas and how she miss her parents on mainland. if it's to make sure her parents safety,I clearly can understand her standpoint.
@@FreyjaWionoh yeah, that's what I mean. One of her mods is a member of the CCP and Civia actually didn't participate and only kept silent. She also adores Aqua to the very end.
@@darwin0922 Except she wasn't living in mainland China. She had a YT channel that she actively used. YT is blocked in mainland China, so that means she must have been located outside of that region.
I remember during the time of the issue, Coco cried on stream because she's about to break from all the strees. Kanata barged through the door and comforted a crying Coco which took a few minutes to calm down. That stream ignited a flame in the fanbase which altogether thought "enough is enough" and banded together for an all-out war(whether the HoloPros know this or not, we will never know). Aside the Tatsunokos and Kiryu Kais, there are Lu-Knights, Watamates, Fandeads, etc. went on a doxxing guerrila battle with the chinese antis. A Taiwanese fan(s) started hunting down the bot makers and made their identities open for the public, and Russians started making bots and sell them to the antis, only for the bots to be nuked out of existence by the makers themselves(Mmmmm profit). But yeah, the antis found out that they are losing their ground badly especially when the Artia leak was distributed.
I remember that stream...the pain in Cocos voice I'll never forget it. I get the girls probably regret what they did now but I'll never forgive!!! Same for Haachama when she broke down on stream crying...never forgive that!
I will be frank, I did enjoy watching the war unfold in front of my eyes. I did not participate but I did get a kick out of the misery from all sides. My money was on Artia but I am impressed that Kson came out the victor cause she had a backbone. I don't like either but at least I respect Kson. Artia was a disappointment.
>Kson face reveal Fans: HOT DAMN >Goes on to win a competition and have her likeness in a Yakuza videogame >Artia face reveal Fans: EW >Goes on to graduate and is never heard of again ain't karma a b*tch
Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes. And the stupid game artia played won her an extremely stupid prize. Personally I don't think ANY content creator that supports a disgusting autocratic police state like China should be given any time of day.
To be fair to Cover though, at the time the company was still pretty young. But if it were now though, my opinion would be pretty different. Plus, the overseas market (that is to say, the fans outside China and Japan) was still pretty small back then and China holds quite a large percent of their fanbase. Not to mention, the collabs with Bilibili and Chinese companies/sponsorships too. Everyone back then was expecting Cover to fold to China back then, me included. But I'm glad that that didn't happen. YaGOAT didn't cave in to the pressure and Hololive continued to grow to this point today.💪
@@nyannyan443 prolly the biggest and best move you could do at that time, even looking at the PR side of it... simply because they would have faced a very big backlash if they bend to china as various gaming companies did and actually didnt pay out at the end anyways (like blizzards case) and tbh since the company had so many antis and members of the company itself were a part of it, even if somebody was innocent and stayed with cover, u would have risked they would get a big harrasement campaign from their own people so actually cutting ties was actually in their interests and with the law coming after, it would have happened anyways i guess
Yeah, that's rough, buddy. Screw them though, and while there's empathy for her, there ain't much coming from me. Only enough to show base respect for a human being.
The Karma is just cheff kiss. Coco, her main target, ended up showing her face in her other account and ended up in a massive success. Artia tought he could do the same and completely backfire because of the kind of fans she surrounded herserlf with.
One thing I would like to add. Artia was a Chinese mainland born citizen but was currently living in Canada as a college exchange student when she was in Hololive CN. It is this reason why she can bypass China law of not using western social media like youtube/twitch and just stream on twitch for the western fanbase. (Other chinese mainland Hololive CN only had bilibili account because that was the law in Mainland China, u can ONLY use chinese origin social media platforms.)
Artia also the og Holo Reddit moderator. when the holo reddit still a small community,not as big as now. before the CN incident happens,we saw her as pretty based.
The truth is that the Chinese market consumes a lot of hololive productions, in bilibili there are many videos of gura and the other girls. Recently, cover investors wanted yagoo to do business with China again, although I doubt cover will do so, it seems that they are more interested in opening up a market in Korea
The one I feel the worst for is Yogiri. She just wanted to be an idol and having no part in that drama. Caught in the crossfire. Glad I still have her only bit of Hololive merch. Even with her reincarnation, she found success, but the company folded. I hear she still streams, mostly singing, but I’ve never been able to find her.
I wanted to go more into details about yogiri but i read too many different accounts of what happened with her 2nd graduation. One of them about her company folding and the other one about her health ..so i didnt manage to confirm the reasons. I do wish her the best. Loved listening to her songs. Highly recommend
It is hard to understate just how beloved Artia was in the EN community, having spearheaded engagement on reddit before even Coco. In fact, if anything, Artia and Coco were rivals for the Western attention in 2019/early 2020 Hololive. So the discovery of the level of betrayal Artia had committed genuinely was earth-shattering in the Western sphere. It really was like something out of a Yakuza/Like a Dragon game, coincidentally enough with how Coco had pretty much based her entire brand around that image. In the end it's undeniable that Artia and HoloCN got their comeuppance, having not only disgraced themselves and their countrymen by behaving so shamefully and getting caught, but also ended up shutting pretty much the entirety of China out of the 2020 VTuber boom as the event sent a chilling effect at a time where Covid had everyone questioning whether or not the Chinese market was worth it. I wouldn’t be shocked to hear if any of the more vocal participants have "gone missing" since that incident. Definitely an occasion where China's insecurities ended up costing them way more face than if they had just pretended not to notice.
Here's the actual event about that "taking the avatar with them" story. The claim was made by ywwuyi, one of Civia's mods and a very prominent moderator on NGA (the headquarter of the spamming trolls). So basically this ywwuyi guy is an entitled Fuerdai who works for a state-owned business but later went full-time streaming. He thought he was rich enough to just buy out the IP for Artia/Civia from Cover, not realizing a vtuber IP from a major corporation could easily cost millions (Suou Patra paid 774 inc. 70 million JPY for hers). He had made advances to Artia before and wanted to flex his wealth in front of her. NGA unofficially gave the Artia/Civia duo a group name "Our Girls/OG" (sooooo cringe) and spread misinformation that ywwuyi had, as a FACT, bought the IP from Cover. Then Artia/Civia further made that claim on their streams. The misinformation went even as far as they had also acquired Aqua's (the top two vtubers on Bili at the time) IP and that Aqua would graduate with HoloCN members. There is an even more ironic side of this story. Ywwuyi got his fame by streaming KanColle content, a game that was banned in China for "portraying warships that participated in the invasion of China during WWII as cute anime girls". And on NGA he would abuse his power to ban anyone who criticizes KanColle, and would in fact use his police privilege to threaten people. So this person that was widely considered "unpatriotic" was the mastermind behind the ultranationalist attacks on Coco. And later, he would organize another massed attack against indigenous Vtuber groups in China. And there was a prologue to the Taiwan incident. As we know foreign businesses usually don't open up local branches to do businesses directly in China, instead they often form a joint venture with a local company. This is how we got VirtuaReal (Nijisanji + Bilibili JV). Cover originally signed a contract with a local MCN company run by a person known as "Rock Man". He is an industry veteran and managed several vtubers including Kagura Nana, the most subscribed foreign Vtuber on Bilibili ever. Under his management Hololive had very healthy growth in China, approaching roughly 40% market share by the end of 2019. But he made a very inappropriate comment on the KyoAni attack which caused huge backlash. CN anime fans immediately called for his termination. Conversations of him (allegedly) harassing talents also leaked out. This caused all the translation groups, who are the de facto owner of all Hololive's official Bilibili accounts, to go on a strike and changed passwords to the official accounts. Yagoo was not aware of the situation (because he was visiting China meeting with Bilibili representatives at the time) until he realized they no longer have control over these accounts. This prompted him to terminate the contract with "Rock Man", essentially leaving them with no direct liaison in China. This sowed the seeds for the future debacle because "Rock Man" was actually a very competent person and knows how to do business safely in China. Years down the line we now know "Rock Man" did not know the death toll of the KyoAni fires at the time, made a prompt apology, and never harassed Holo talents. Source? I was a member of Aqua's translation team and witnessed the whole event unfold. Many of us in the Aqua translation team refused to participate in the bullying. We fought our fight. We were the minorities and we lost at the time. But at the end of the day we stood on the right side of history.
I was an average fan of Hololive at that time and watched all the drama unfold under my eyes but didn’t really go into depth, I just knew the surface, by watching this video and comments, I learned more about the situation at that time, and noticed that many battles were ongoing silently without us foreigners fan not knowing about it cause of language barriers, I thank all you,soldat, for silently going through this and doing the best for the girls, it give me goosebumps how many things that we don’t know how our fellows Chinese soldats fought for the right side and didn’t yield, I salute all of you 🫡
Coco did a stream that she deleted soon as it was over were she ended up breaking down and crying to the point her roommate Kanata had to come into the room and hold her live on stream while she cried because the harassment was so bad...I will never forget the pain in Cocos voice as she cried. I get they regret what they did now but I'll never forgive!!!
Those were obscure times. I felt so bad for Coco not being able to collaborate with anyone in Hololive to avoid the other girls' chat being spammed with anti's bots. Coco was visibly uncomfortable on those occasions, and that was a sad view. The company that brought smiles to us wasn't a happy place anymore. Eventually, Coco left Hololive because of "creative differences". And I believe it. But that's not the only reason, and we know the Chinese campaign had a big part in her decision. What I hated the most was that Haachama shared how guilty she felt and blamed herself for the whole situation. She was the youngest member of Hololive, and it left a painful mark on her. We cried a lot during and at the end of those events. I don't feel bad for how things turned out for those CN members who participated in Coco's harassment, especially Artia. But I feel bad for Yogiri, Echo, and the true Chinese Hololive fans.
It's a shame for the CN members who got caught in the cross fire of this incident, but it's nice to hear some of them are doing well and some regret their past actions.
they just probably learned their lesson, cuz people never change, they just hide their bad sides, actually i also was wondering about while holo cn disappear so fast, until i find truth
Whats pretty ironic about the Taiwan incident is that the reason why they even had a name in the analytics was because Chinese users were using VPNs, which is illegal in China, to use Taiwan servers...so yeah no matter what this was likely inevitable🙃
It is illegal to have a account or watch western sites - UA-cam, twitch, twitter .... all these That’s no myth it’s a fact and either you really don’t know it and believed ccp propaganda or yourself are ccp propaganda xD (50cent army) So just Educate yourself about the topic before writing such outrageous claims or do better pro-ccp posts that this xD
I joined the Fandom near the tail end of this in Nov 2020, shortly after Myths debut. I was there when the announcement of their graduation was announced, and they were unceremoniously cut off. I was there when the antis were attacking not just Coco, but anyone she was or is or will have collabed with. All the girls were trying to figure out how to moderate their chats because they knew it was upsetting Coco that they were getting attacked in addition to herself. Iirc, Flare and Suisei are prominent in my mind for actively fighting the hate and trying to support Coco. And ofc her genmates too. I honestly didn't know that Hololive CN was leading the charge. Cover is better off now that they cut China out.
There was never an intention for Hololive to give the CN talents their models after graduation and is only spread by antis to pressure Hololive into doing so. Considering we've only heard of this from word-of-mouth and never from the official source, is telling a lot.
Oof as a former Artia fan I couldn't believe it until I saw the receipts regardless only Yogiri and Spade Echo deserve well wishes. That's all I took out of that ordeal unless the video says otherwise.
Even if it says otherwise, it's pretty common misiniformation reaches everyone, not even this channel is safe from it, as the saying goes "history is written by the winners" and sadly not always time give the losers their own.
I didn't even know that she did something. I don't doubt that she could be responsible for something, it only sucks to hear that she is responsible for something fucked up.
The whole incident was messed up. Artia was actually the first hololive member to become a reddit mod. Fast forward to today at I saw that she's infamous in /vt/ as Hololive's Judas...
Damn... if the new China streaming rules apply, top names in Nijisanji are gonna graduate. Even if they choose to terminate their bilibili account, there is no way AnyColor gonna allow that since their biggest shareholder is a Chinese company. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
It's not hard to avoid the rule, I think it already happened, Nijisanji just offered up one of their CN staff members' name. Good luck to that dude. But legally the vtuber belongs to Nijisanji, not the person voicing it. The mod per member though I don't see it becoming reality, noone will volunteer for it lmao. Also doubt they are getting any superchat money for it in the first place. The chinese audience largely left nijisanji as a whole. Look at Vox Akuma stream numbers lolw.
@@arttizkappa2588stop being a stooge. The nijien livers can decide for themselves whether to stay or leave. They're not hostages and vshojo isn't a sanctuary
It still fathoms me that this is considered ancient history in the Vtuber community and is studied like the WW's with old texts and citations from people who have a spotted and biased memory, when it only happened 3 years ago. Reminds me how wild and fast paced the internet is. Is this what boomers feel like? Edit: I wrote this before watching the video and the beginning is just what I wrote with the words shifted around a bit.
i read that and was "yikes" but prolly cause im german~ but yeah at some point the "its not right to bully back" sentiment isnt gonna work anymore, yes bullying back is NOT right but its hard not to feel some sort of "justice served" knowing what happened... its more like atually seeing a "criminal" get a sentence for their actions... dont find a better analogy but its well deserved irony that the got a taste of her own medicine though and it wasnt even from oversears fans or the JP holomems but her own community so its not like the victims bullied back anyway
Not to promote harassment, but of course they lamented their actions, who doesn't after suffering the consequences? This doesn't necessarily mean that they learned that what they did was fucked up, perhaps they just learned that getting caught doing it is bad. I don't trust apologies unless they come from someone that has changed their beliefs.
If they openly said they would stop supporting China THEN maybe I’d believe them. Of course they cant do that or risk they’re social credit so that will never happen.
Agreed. Why would I believe an apology of someone that was as two faced as Artia was? To get laughed at behind my back again? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
And till this day, reddit still refuses to admit it. Also a small lesson learned: Never, ever, trust any self-proclaimed, vocal "centrists" on the internet.
Reddit the worst part is you can't pinpoint the accountability on the each individual on a group. I remember during the hunt of Boston Marathon bombing with someone has wrongly accused as terrorist, after it is reveal the truth, no one bring caught or reprimanded for false accusation. They just " do not trust reddit anymore" and kept silence. Nobody hold them account and nobody bring them facing the music of their wrongful accusation
22:08 she got hate because she didn't find her fans' beauty standards... sorrounded herself with toxic people then got toxic treatment, that's karma for ya!
Of course abusers want to move on from their abuse, they don't want consequences for their actions. They just want other people to suffer. It's a lot easier to move on if you're not the one who suffered in the first place.
Karma is a bitch, and Artia knows that firsthand. Justice has been served. Also, will you ever cover Aloe’s tragic story in Hololive? She’s doing better now, but times were different back then. Hololive wasn’t as good in terms of protection of the talents as it is now. Her story is something that everyone can look back on as a tragedy that could have been prevented if the higher ups stepped in.
I’d have to somehow make it a bit different since she’s been talked about alot before but i would definitely love to as she has a very interesting story
i think that Aloes situation is also a good cautionary tell for fandoms on how good intentions can backfire, because the well meaning the defense of Aloe by overseas fans made her antis escalate their harassment out of annoyance.
@@rimaevenstarI think you should do it regardless if others have already talked about it. It’s important to bring to light how the antis can actually have a negative effect on the talents and their mental health. It almost serves as a public announcement of sorts; especially considering how Gura is being attacked currently. Also, I really enjoy your content and think it would be a perfect fit for your current catalogue of videos. But in the end, it’s your choice.
I still argue that their measures are inadequate. They just got better at preventive measures. If things actually hit the fans. I don't see cover being very effective in protecting their talents. But I'd at least hope they don't throw them under the bus
It's satisfying to see the karma that's comes back on Artia for her actions but the fact that her fanbase turned against her because she didn't meet their beauty standard just makes me disturbing to see how twisted those Chinese fans are
I remember when this all happened. I remember watching the Coco stream. I remember Haachama's accident. I remember thinking the HoloCh girls were pure and innocent. I remember reporting every anti I saw in Coco's chat. I remember supporting Coco during that time. I remember learning about the lies and hypocrisy. I remember hating the antis. I remember being disgusted when I saw any content related to the HoloCn girls. I remember when they said they would keep their models and wishing they would need to pay thousands of dollars to keep it. I remember their graduations. I remember the antis getting mad again. I remember learning to forgive the HoloCn girls and move on after I saw them suffer from their mistakes they had chosen. I remember when Coco and Haachama came back from their break. I remember watching Coco and Haachama cry on stream. I remember Coco graduating. I remember Haachama crying and being thankful of Coco for being the bigger sister who protected her and took the brunt of the antis harassment. I remember. . . Kiryuu Kai forever
Yes, Coco had big shoulder and stong mental on this, she was the legend, she always will be. Flare and Kanata also shine in this story as they collab with Coco, and there is this moment where Flare straight up said she will collab with Coco cause she wants and wouldn't care about harassment and bot as she put after the chat in member only. It was badass. Suisei also did some good move back then, such as upgrading member of her channel to mod to kill bots on sight. And FBK took also quite a bit crossfire as China saw her as an ambassador for Hololive, but she never stop being that ambassador and show her love for other Holomem, included Coco. While back then it was trouble, now, it really feels like they were heroes in an anime that stand out against adversity with teetee.
Seeing this again always reminds me how great of a leader Yagoo is, guys protect his talent as much as they can instead bow down to money, I can't thank him enough for being the way he is.
I still remember that during the first ark collaboration between artia and moona, they got some troubles in games at midnight. Coco helped them solve the problem right after they call for help. It's a small thing, but it really pissed me when I saw artia jumped out to point fingers at coco right after the incident happened.
Never forget what Chinese ultranationalists took from us. Also don't forget that Coco kaichou is happy right now, she's living the whole opposite of what the antis wanted.
i still remember watching moona, artia and coco playing ark together very early on. it was literally a rare english stream at that time. I liked civia before everything happened.
In her pursue to be another Coco she end up been outed by attacking her. In game terms, she try to play amongus, got the impostor role, but got ejected by attempt a sabotage.
@abbysaito5348 in seriousness I don't know either a I wasn't there to hear it happen. (I came in the late Spring of 2020 shortly after ID1 debuted, after the infamous Miko GTA5 clip)
@@SrMissileMonkey it was a dark time for covercorp as the vtuber boom was just taking off and everyone was learning the dos and don'ts. We're in a much better space now. Maybe one day rimaevenstar will make a video on the lost vtuber of hololive? Maybe even aloe. I'm glad she's doing better.
This all happened around the time I started watching Vtubers with HoloMyth and I remember it being a very muddy situation back then. Good to get a refresher after all these years. Well done on the video 👍
I personally believe that Holo CN was destined to fail sooner or later, the political game that the country it manages would bring problems in the future. It was a very risky move for Cover to leave CN but in the end it was the right decision, they did not need them to grow and be today the most dominant company with the most visibility in the Vtuber world.
for me it was even more risky to not leave CN after that, also for the talents cause i dont want to imagine what people woul have done to the CN talents that would have stayed with cover after expelling the others... and well, that incident even helped them to get PR and not bending to china in the end was a big boost though despite the graduation of coco in the end because if they had, a lot of western people would have revolted and i think it was clear that china wouldnt sit with that incident anyway... i mean just look at blizzards downfall who tried to appease to china and got completly shut dow in china anyway after even banning people from tournaments for standing with hong kong... which caused a streisand effect because even more people called the company out on that and well given cover started to get a footing in the rest of the world with holo myth, it was the better decision to let CN go, holding on to the community that actively causes the harm would have been insane anyway....
@@AnbuAssasine If cover chose to stick up with china market ,cn fanbase will start demanding more bilibili-only contents ,means more proportion on a chinese only market , there'll be not that much English speaker talents like now ,they can punish the company easier with money ,basically made it a puppet
@@skruber8619 yeah, CN people can be greedy, like for a game that got CN only rewards, game then handed out Global only(irony CN isnt involved in Global) rewards, CN players rioted. Game then also decided to separate CN and CN social media etc completly. The suspension of coco just showed the Trolls that their harassement worked..at that moment it was over in my opinion. And now the antis habe no hololive content anymore. What would rev say.. you reap what u sow? While that prolly fits more to Artia though
@@AnbuAssasine yep that's what I think too ,they had to do it to show the ccp they care about Taiwan incident ,so they chose "removing a single talent" as an easier mission to accomplish. Coco is out and it's basically over ,they lost holoCN and future opportunities ,imo the biggest lost is they can no longer participate as "CN fans" anymore ,all they can do is reupload contents to Bilibili and pretent hololive is still there.
It's good that this blew up as soon as it did, and especially with Coco at the helm. Because she handled everything like a champ, and steered Hololive into a better future with more prospects. Things might not have been the same if this controversy came at a later time when the CN branch was larger, more people got hurt, and Hololive had more strings attached to the Chinese market.
Although I started watching Hololive way after the accident, thank you for compiling and covering this part of hidden history. Its unfortunate that things ended up that way, but it's nice hearing some of them are doing well. Well, I do understand Chinese and could read through those screenshots but it's really hard to dig through all the information and determine if its true or not. Once again, thank you for the effort you have made to summarize for the new fans.
Artia is managing her own vtuber corpo in her little corner in bilibili. Yogiri has been inactive for months and has resurfaced recently in a cover song.
Sighs, I'm glad the others like Echo is doing well. I always wondered how they're doing. Even tho I checked an update video like a few months ago. Thank you. ;-;
That situation was a clusterfuck. I remember being around and liking Civia a lot (not oshi levels but close). I hope the ones who had to learn from this did and glad that Spade Echo ended up doing well. Shame Yogiri didn't as much but hope her the best.
Same here. I remember Civia's Xmas stream (or was it new year's eve?) It was one of the bests experiences. At first i was pretty much sad of her graduation (i did not know about this situation at all)
Claiming Taiwan is theirs. Found out directly-travel is banned. Use Taiwan vpn to watch banned oversea contents. Found out being listed in the Taiwanese viewers. Clown_Makeup. jpg
I’m just started to see mainlander in the new light before this thing happened. And now I’m became fully xenophobic against them. (Can’t use racists because I don’t have problem with Taiwanese also myself actually almost pure blood Chinese.)
While I used to be a not full-on anti-China before, after this incident, that tiny little spark turned into a raging hot fire. This video just reminded me of why I HATE China with a burning passion! Lot of them are willing to backstab to save their own skin and it shows with how Artia behaves behind closed doors and her leading the harassment campaign. It's to the point that I'm ashamed to have Chinese blood run through my veins, when it's supposed to my Filipino blood that should make me ashamed of being a Filipino, like those memes! But at this point, I'd prefer to be a Filipino more than to be Chinese.
Maybe its because I’m sheltered on chinease cultures or probably because school for some reason never taught us about current day China. (Only North Korea) But I actually had NO idea China was even like this before this incident. I thought they were just like any other country and not a stricter Russia and slightly less strict North Korea.
They will not be missed nor ever be welcomed back (except for the ones that might be innocent or neutral on this situation) yet above all this paint CN a bad light all because of a Analytics thats all nothing else at all !
When I first got into hololive late 2019, I've only seen 4 of the CN members. Artia, Civia, Yogiri, and Spade Echo. The former two felt odd while I enjoyed the later two. Glad I trusted my instincts and stopped watching the former two. What they did to Yogiri was just awful. Still, even to this days, people are still dead set on saying Artia was the victim, can't blame them, they were played like a fiddle since Day 1.
That really is some impressive manipulation tactics that can put many fans on copium. Hypothetically I could believe anyone *BUT* Artia was a victim of peer pressure. But she is ground zero, the one who started it all, plus she is an edgy shitposter. She is definitely not a “victim” in this.
21:12 Please, don't be fooled! Civia is a master manipulator! The sweet girl is a complete facade! She 100% was harassing Coco on her alt account. I agree that nobody deserves to be harassed, even Civia. Just don't be a fool and believe in her. Don't forget and forgive.
Share proofs because I refuse to believe that Civia could have been a perpetrator when Yagoo literally thanked and said his farewells to Civia even after all the chaos. Even if she did ‘harass’, she and her family are under the party so she would likely not have a choice
That must sting revealing your face to people you though supported you and they turn on you Its so poetic Coco/kson showing her face and everyone loves them
I think on Coco/Kson's fortune, some of her viewers already knew her "other persona". It just became natural for people to transition from our dragon waifu to kson.
Man, I'd never watched Yogiri before Holo CN dissolved, but on the 1-year anniversary of her Graduation someone uploaded her Graduation which was also her 3D debut to UA-cam and it made me feel so sad, she was seemingly just a wholesome bean. If she crops up again elsewhere I'd like to know, but that doesn't seem likely :( ps. I also found it hard to believe the claims against Civia for the same reasons as you, which is funny (and sad), I was a big Artia fan back in the day, but when the stuff was coming out about those CN members, I had no problem believing she would do that.
yeah just found that video cause i looked into yogiri after this video and found that, makes it all the more sad... same goes for spade though... but seeing what happened and what laws china passed, the graduation was maybe even a blessing in disguise for her, at least i could see the antis going after the members who would have stayed with cover after all that....
Your vtubing journalism is so solid, you should rig up a fedora / trilby with the "Press" card inserted into the rim, and maybe come up with some kind of intro phrase in an obnoxiously heavy New Jersey accent. Really sell that hard-hitting, muckraker aspect of the vids. Anyway, this is a must-watch for newcomers to the hobby. It's a story that needs to be told, both for history's sake and as a multi-layered lesson in general. Honestly, the end of it all is disturbingly reflective of a war's outcome, which has no clearly defined winners, but losers aplenty. There are still those who (with the best intentions, I believe) want to try the vtubing in China experiment again, but after watching this and reflecting on the social and business costs of this entire debacle, I can confidently say that Hololive China is dead and buried for good. Well done, Rima, and thank you for all of your hard work. Transparency and integrity in reporting the truth is not as widespread as many believe, but it's important in all things, even something as tangential as vtbing journalism.
*nodders* joined the rabbithole later but a the time it was still a big topic okay just saw the moment i joined was 6 days after cocos graduation stream, so ofc it was a big topic... but i have to say, i had good people around me that time, i hardly got any misinformation, i got more information about the CN members but the false facts were actually called out back then for me when i asked questions.... but yeah the more i looked into the incident the more i was actually happy not be around during that time just knowing how some JP members were harassed makes my blood boil
You handled this topic as diplomatically as possible, so I hope nobody yeets hate in your direction. Thank you for your efforts and service to this niche market. Keep up the good work, Rima.
Oh yeah i forgot and you should put this on the video. Artia is the reddit mod for the official hololive subreddit. So the questions and confusion is palpable
I think at the time I was misled too and thought the talents themselves Artia included were innocent and I remember saying please don’t feel like it’s your fault that CN had to go under. Now I regret that completely since learning the truth not that much after CN was shut down. I think it’s also sad that Artia did all that out of a sense of pride for her nationality only to be rejected by her fans when her face was revealed IRL. Tragic but I don’t wish them ill will
Thing is, she wasn't lying about the statement that streamers or youtubers don't actually love their fans just cause they say they do. Basically saying "parasocial relationship bad". Which i agree with.
Never knew there was even a Hololive CN wow. What happened to Coco and Haachama at that time was so wrong but well what's done is done. What I've learned here is that karma's a bish, be nice to people no matter what.
Wait, Yogiri has completely graduated? I'm sad for her. Also, I knew Doris had completely disappeared but I had no idea she got into drama before that.
the most innocent seeming people are often the worst, because theyre manipulative and good at acting, and the only thing she regrets is being caught/the consequences
The first vtuber stream I ever caught live was Civia's graduation, and I don't know if I would've fallen so hard into this community if I hadn't been there. I was at a very low point in my life, the kind of low point some people don't come back from, and to see such an outpouring of love in her chat, so many people so emotionally invested and sorrowful at what was effectively a simple retirement party, filled me with a sense of longing. It was something I wanted for myself, to feel so strongly for something that I could experience the kind of emotions I was seeing in so many others at that moment. I don't know if she ever truly did the things she was accused of, and at this point I don't think it really matters; it's not as if I ever really knew her in the first place. But I'll always be grateful to Civia, for cultivating a fanbase that cared about her enough to help me care about myself again.
I discovered Coco at the exact same time she was under suspension, and got to see first hand how much the west taiwan antis spammed their chat. The thing about this situation is that it doesn't really matter who did what. The level of dedication, persistance and organization of antis was so impressive that there was no other way than to excise the entire CN tumor regardless of guilt or innocence. What i find most fucked up is the government forcing citizens to dox themselves as a prerequisite. It's basically forcing people to a life of 996.
Glad to see more people talking about what happened behind the scenes with the CN branch of HoloLive. Artia was a truly toxic, awful human being for how she encouraged and organized the harassment of her fellow HoloMembers. For a company to employ someone like that, she had to have kept that side of her hidden deep behind closed doors. Being overseas helped, I'm sure but when interacting with others she truly held up a mask for the public to see while her antis saw the real her. Cases like her show us that, yes, VTubers are people behind the avatars. They are not flawless beings, capable of both acceptable mistakes and truly unforgivable toxicity. We as fans need to remember that when we watch these entertainers. Some of them are not as pure and wholesome as they've lead us to believe.
I used to think fans just exaggerating (usual 4chan delusions) but after seeing the real evidences I just lost for word. Seriously, the toxicity of these people
Ive been on this place since the HoloGamers debuts. Didn't really watched Coco, most likely Okayu & Fubuki. But when she announced her graduation, i do feel sad about it. She is the reason holoEN exists. Feel like its just a year ago tbh
I remembered I was just starting to like Yogiri shortly before the whole fiasco happened. After the entire CN branch got wiped, I simply moved on from it. Unfortunate, but it's already in the past. There are many lessons that can be learned from this incident, but the one that people should learn at any point in their life is "there is always consequences behind an action" or something along that line. Idk, I'm not a wise guy. Anyway, thanks for making this video. It makes a lot of thing much clearer compared to during the chaos back then.
Artia had hit the jackpot, the secret recipe. She couldve been a huge success. She got the CN audience, with the niche concept of a vtuber at that time, even tho she was small compared to the other streamers that arent vtubers. She got the EN audience, and was rather popular too. But then the 4th gen debuted, and along came Coco, someone who could speak JP and EN, and was a lot more foulmouthed than Artia. Around the time of the Analytics incident, Artia was already planning to move back to CN. So she was trying to secure a decent base in bilibili, start to pander for the expected future audience. When things went out of proportion with rumors of HoloCN disbanding, she panicked and pulled several other members along, tried to manipulate things to their benefit, especially the keeping their model thing. Models arent cheap, and it would be rough starting again from the beginning. Cover directly cutting them off would ruin them all. The few loyal fans who knew the truth tried to whistleblow, but got pushed down by either foreigners who thought they knew better, or antis pretending to be fans. At least that was how i see things, as someone who has been following them since Gamers. There was also the clippers. Those that first took clips and translated them into chinese and post them on bilibili, the reason Hololive originally planned to enter the CN market. CN lacks foreign stuff aside from those that entered via official channels and allowed by the government, so most foreign contents are videos copied from youtube/twitch and translated over. They do the same tactics in promoting CN to foreigners with random videos on youtube. Thankfully they only sent Aqua and Fubuki first to test the waters. It was actually good reception, minus the fact that both sides dont really understand each other due to language barrier, which is where the clippers came in. I still find it funny that several CN Holo clippers that used to post on youtube quit in protest of Cover not firing Coco and Haato.
Oh boy this one is a hololive classic at this point and seeing how all of this unfolds is just so satisfying because in the end the victims got the good ending well most of them because Yogiri and Spade Echo was innocent but still caught in the crossfire, this two deserve more especially knowing what happened to Yogiri after the whole ordeal, from starting over again and finding a new company to another graduation again after the company experienced a problem.
I got to watch the video a bit late (even had notification on for it) but still. Great vid and honesty great conclusions. Normally I would think people would still end one sided, but your reasoning is good!
I witnessed it all go down, start to finish. I was never enamored with Artia the way a lot of reddit was, I always felt her "haha I shitpost like a westerner" shtick was paper deep, and I was indifferent to the rest of holoCN. But I was one of the ones who wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt when those allegations first came out. It's so crazy to me how the wolf-warrior wannabes would mock and belittle western holofans for just wanting to believe in people's better natures, for not immediately defaulting to tribalist aggression and naturally assuming the holoCN mems would be enemies. It's the kind of mockery you find in villain monologues. HoloCN were vtubers and holomems. Having the Internet mob turn on you was a job hazard they ALL risked, and they should have been sympathetic to that. But I guess if they were capable of that kind of reflection, they wouldn't make very good wolf-warriors...
I've watched so much laowhy86, serpentza and china uncensored to feel surprised at the way these wolf warriors acted towards foreigners. Because they are willing to do the same to their own people, sometimes even worse. Many lump them with nationalists, but no, these people aren't loyal to their own nation, they're only loyal to themselves and the ccp.
China has legislations limiting practices of religion/spirituality and because of that, there's been a collapse/degradation of morals with the general population. That's why there are a lot of scams, cutting corners with food safety (especially with the rise of Chinese black food technology), lack of quality control, and those are just a few. It doesn't help that quality of living in China gets worse by the day too and the CCP doesn't do anything to improve that. I'm not saying religion in general is necessary to maintain a certain degree of morality, but it does play a big part.
@@janarcangel49 I'm not sure why you brought religion into this, but given that I'm a hard anti-theist, you'll find nothing but passionate disagreement from me towards your claim that religion is in any way important or necessary for a morally upright society.
@@7QWERTY13 I respect that. Like i said in my last comment, I didn't say that it was necessary, but it does play a part. China has always been big on spirituality since ancient times if Confucianism and Buddhism is any indication. It doesn't have to be learned within the confines of organized religion, but just keeping some of the teachings/quotes themselves in mind (the actual good ones) is good.
Will you be doing anything else on this topic? Say for example how China continues to harass Hololive and Kson. Like how Fubuki and Matsuri's cameo was removed from an anime they were a part of. Or Momosuzu Nene's first voice acting role in an anime was completely nuked from the show in question and erased from the credits? You already mentioned how Kson was blurred out on the Like a Dragon stream, but have you seen what they've been trying to do to the game? All of these are official acts of censorship by the Chinese government itself. Nyanner's own character designer refused to work with VShojo because Kson joined. God there could be an entire omnibus volume of all of the Chinese hate and hypocrisy for these Vtubers.
it's their lost ,their own people have to play oversea version games ,watch uncensored anime with vpn ,and their cosplayers getting attack because of the ccp's anti-Japan policy. It's not only vtubers ,oversea chinese news tellers are also face-blured
Oh man, I was there during that time. I was not happy with how naive the overseas community was. There was so much we didn't know yet people were blindly assuming things without stopping to think. I had already learned my lesson from the Aloe incident where the non-stop support from the overseas fans ended up doing more harm than good. Anyway, I do love the delicious irony of Coco, the target of the Chinese antis, is more successul than ever. You love to see it, I'm happy for her.
Thanks to Royal Match for sponsoring today's video! Go to strms.net/royal_match_rimaevenstar to download Royal Match
YAGOO really dodged a bullet with BiliBili, requiring their content creators to reveal their real names, on top of the climbing tax demands.
Leaving china was the most consequencial decision Cover made
In China, your name will not only find your address and mobile phone number, but also the identity information of your whole family, and even the records of hotel records, hospital records, and online shopping records can be found🥲
@@CNDD-t3b dayuuuum😟
@@CNDD-t3b I'd feel bad for them if they weren't China.
@@CNDD-t3b -Thought speaking foreign languages in Chinese based platform has enough of excuses to get cancelled for patriots who wanna farm some social credit nowadays-
"We should aim for the Chinese market"
The start of every emotionally damaging, brand damaging, and destructive business decision in the media industry.
For an industry known for its entertainment being unhinged and chaotic (in a comedic way), stepping into a market infamously known for its restrained on freedom of speech (China), always seems like the perfect recipe for a dumpster fire...and they fell right in.
True that. Everything becomes worse when you cater to the CCP.
I'll never put entertainment industry in brainwashed- brain-damaged country.
The fact majority of people live inside a cage like a chicken in China is... Embarrasing.
Yeah, South Park warned us with "Band in China"
On this I agree.
As a Chinese audience, I have never dug into this drama this deeply. You let me finally know what was really going on at that time. Great video, much appreciated.
Oh hey! Thank you so much for the super. Glad i could help 💜
Well it was an unfortunate incident, but in the end, ended up:
(1) strengthening hololive like no other
(2) brought into light the necessity of standard manuals, emergency response, and overall policy to protect the company and its talents
(3) united the fans around the world to stand up against toxic bullying
(4) made Kiryu Coco/Kson a legend
(5) highlighted the leadership and size of balls Yagoo had (China money was no joke, and with no EN branch, there was no guarantee hololive would make up its lost revenue anywhere else)
(6) prompted hololive to go aggressively with its EN project, which launched Myth, which changed the western Vtuber scene forever and brought on explosive expansion of Vtubers in the west, both corporate and indie scene
(7) and as an added bonus, this astonishing tale, ended with the "good guys winning" and "bad guys suffering the consequences of their action" -- which, is a rare thing to happen in real life. To have this kind of fairy-tale ending come to life, inspired millions of fans that went through the ordeal together, every step of the way.
What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger. And they failed to kill hololive, failed to kill Coco. And all the fans stood against bullshit, and gave support, kept them alive. And now, seeing how holo turned the tables to leave behind all competition and skyrocket and soar, it is a source of great pride and joy for the fans who was there with them every step of the way.
-- The End --
I've seen it live as it happens. The day when hololive actually went 100% to western and abandoned ship Chinese market. There's a very quick and emergency meeting when all hololive vtuber got to meet up, highly likely to talk about the future. After that meeting suddenly 5 vtuber went to hololive Reddit, that genuinely the start of hololive ditching CN market.
HoloMyth just debuted during that time so it was still a gamble despite the initial positive reception. Looking at where we are now, Yagoo (and COVER in general) placed their bet on the right horse.
I remember the stream where Coco broke down crying while her roommate comfort her live on stream because the harassment wouldn't stop...I will never forget the pain in her voice. Karma came for the ones that made her cry and they regret it now but I'll never forgive!!
chinese market is always like a gamble ,if cover choose to stick up with the sweet chinese money ,there'll be no hololiveEN ,and the talents will be forced to spend more time doing bilibili-only content which only chinese people watch it. The incident may be unfortunate ,but we're lucky cover chose world market ,so we got the good outcome.
@@mshake7056Never feel sorry or remorse for those monsters
As a Chinese viewer who went through the entire incident, seeing these screenshots brings back some memories that really make me angry. If you can read chinese, you will understand how toxic and disgusting these nationalists' words are. Being a Chinese citizen and also supporting Hololive was really a tough thing in chinese vtuber communities back then. Against these people (just want them to stop harassing these vtubers) and you will get the worst languages ever heard back. I remember back in the early 2010s, there was not much of a nationalist atmosphere in China and also on the internet, but all things changed when Xi came to power. Now China is just a pure sh*thole with Xi's propaganda and his nationalist supporters. Recently, they even made a law that saying something "hurt the feelings of the Chinese nation" is illegal. I feel extremely sad about what happened to the place where I'm living in. Sorry for my poor English.
It can be so hard sometimes to see the beliefs of the Chinese population as more than just "us against them" with how strict the government is in enforcing its nationalist beliefs and conformist culture. That's why I'm always so happy to see any reminder that there are people out there who aren't afraid to speak out. Greetings from Canada, friend. I hope that one day the people of China can live a life free to say what they want.
Didn't China Daily say the phrase "hurting the feelings of the chinese people" at least 88 times throughout beijing olympics 2008? How about blacklisting them from the olympics so the world can never hurt their feelings again?
Hope things get better for you guys. Us Americans have had some rough relations with China but I want a brighter future for both our countries.
Bless of luck for u out there man
@@Shade0591 the one who in power won’t allow that
Something I noticed that you didn't mention in the video that I feel is important to note. Yogiri and Spade Echo didn't take part in the harassment...BECAUSE THEY ARE TAIWANESE. In fact, they both were bullied by the other Hololive CN members for it during the harassment campaign. It hurt because I was a fan of Civia back then. When I found out what she, Artia, and the others did, I admit that I struggled to believe that Civia could have been involved. And then I found out that she was one of the most involved in the harassment next to Artia herself.
So now they're all dead to me. I hope for nothing but the best for Yogiri and Spade Echo and hope their futures are bright, but the others do not deserve any sympathy and they will receive none from me.
Spade has a UA-cam channel and I caught a stream once.
Civia's role in the incident was complicated though. She was a hostage, and was forced to play-along or else she will be harassed because she is living on the mainland.
@@darwin0922
I thought the one who still in mainland is her parents?
last time I heard about her is when she still collage overseas and how she miss her parents on mainland.
if it's to make sure her parents safety,I clearly can understand her standpoint.
@@FreyjaWionoh yeah, that's what I mean. One of her mods is a member of the CCP and Civia actually didn't participate and only kept silent. She also adores Aqua to the very end.
@@darwin0922 Except she wasn't living in mainland China. She had a YT channel that she actively used. YT is blocked in mainland China, so that means she must have been located outside of that region.
I remember during the time of the issue, Coco cried on stream because she's about to break from all the strees. Kanata barged through the door and comforted a crying Coco which took a few minutes to calm down.
That stream ignited a flame in the fanbase which altogether thought "enough is enough" and banded together for an all-out war(whether the HoloPros know this or not, we will never know). Aside the Tatsunokos and Kiryu Kais, there are Lu-Knights, Watamates, Fandeads, etc. went on a doxxing guerrila battle with the chinese antis. A Taiwanese fan(s) started hunting down the bot makers and made their identities open for the public, and Russians started making bots and sell them to the antis, only for the bots to be nuked out of existence by the makers themselves(Mmmmm profit).
But yeah, the antis found out that they are losing their ground badly especially when the Artia leak was distributed.
I remember that stream...the pain in Cocos voice I'll never forget it. I get the girls probably regret what they did now but I'll never forgive!!! Same for Haachama when she broke down on stream crying...never forgive that!
@@mshake7056On a brighter side, Haachama has finally returned after a long hiatus
I will be frank, I did enjoy watching the war unfold in front of my eyes. I did not participate but I did get a kick out of the misery from all sides. My money was on Artia but I am impressed that Kson came out the victor cause she had a backbone. I don't like either but at least I respect Kson. Artia was a disappointment.
when even the russians join, you gotta fck up real bad
@@zero9112chaotic neutral
Kiryu Coco fans will never forgive and never forget.
It’s been 3 years and the rage has not dropped even 1 percent
>Kson face reveal
Fans: HOT DAMN
>Goes on to win a competition and have her likeness in a Yakuza videogame
>Artia face reveal
Fans: EW
>Goes on to graduate and is never heard of again
ain't karma a b*tch
roald dahl was right, an ugly soul does make an ugly face.
They actually got her into a Yakuza game(in some way)? That’s so awesome, I love Kson fans now
When you build your fanbase by appeasing toxic fans (antis), it shouldn’t come as a shock that the way your community behaves is toxic.
Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes.
And the stupid game artia played won her an extremely stupid prize. Personally I don't think ANY content creator that supports a disgusting autocratic police state like China should be given any time of day.
amen
To be fair to Cover though, at the time the company was still pretty young. But if it were now though, my opinion would be pretty different. Plus, the overseas market (that is to say, the fans outside China and Japan) was still pretty small back then and China holds quite a large percent of their fanbase. Not to mention, the collabs with Bilibili and Chinese companies/sponsorships too.
Everyone back then was expecting Cover to fold to China back then, me included. But I'm glad that that didn't happen. YaGOAT didn't cave in to the pressure and Hololive continued to grow to this point today.💪
@@nyannyan443 prolly the biggest and best move you could do at that time, even looking at the PR side of it... simply because they would have faced a very big backlash if they bend to china as various gaming companies did and actually didnt pay out at the end anyways (like blizzards case)
and tbh since the company had so many antis and members of the company itself were a part of it, even if somebody was innocent and stayed with cover, u would have risked they would get a big harrasement campaign from their own people so actually cutting ties was actually in their interests and with the law coming after, it would have happened anyways i guess
@@krisostomoyabarrera2255bot
Artia suffered a fate worse than death just striaght up rejection from her own country because of her irl face ouch.
Yeah, that's rough, buddy. Screw them though, and while there's empathy for her, there ain't much coming from me. Only enough to show base respect for a human being.
ehhh any sources for this?
@@NoriyatsuThis very video.
i mean sources that show the situations in particular aside from what have been told here.. @@RedRabbit-ZA
The Karma is just cheff kiss. Coco, her main target, ended up showing her face in her other account and ended up in a massive success. Artia tought he could do the same and completely backfire because of the kind of fans she surrounded herserlf with.
Funny thing is that she would block criticism on her Twitch streams as racism
One thing I would like to add. Artia was a Chinese mainland born citizen but was currently living in Canada as a college exchange student when she was in Hololive CN. It is this reason why she can bypass China law of not using western social media like youtube/twitch and just stream on twitch for the western fanbase. (Other chinese mainland Hololive CN only had bilibili account because that was the law in Mainland China, u can ONLY use chinese origin social media platforms.)
Nice tidbit. Alot of people in the comments were saying other wise. Ty
It still IS the law in china in regards to the great firewall bs.
@@jesuscornstorm737 ur right. I should have said, "That is the law" not was.
Civia also lived abroad. That's why she also made a UA-cam ch and streamed there a couple of times.
Artia also the og Holo Reddit moderator. when the holo reddit still a small community,not as big as now.
before the CN incident happens,we saw her as pretty based.
The truth is that the Chinese market consumes a lot of hololive productions, in bilibili there are many videos of gura and the other girls. Recently, cover investors wanted yagoo to do business with China again, although I doubt cover will do so, it seems that they are more interested in opening up a market in Korea
Yea its not worth it. There is a significant price that comes with getting that money from china
Hololive KR would be pretty fun for Ina and Kronii. Better yet, HoloEU for Kiara. 😂
Hololive would unironically loose a major portion of oversea fans if they go back to China, so that's never gonna happen
korea a good choice china should be banned for ever for cover corps that would be like bending the knee
@@MenrvaS agree for both but believe Holo eu would be part of holo english
The one I feel the worst for is Yogiri. She just wanted to be an idol and having no part in that drama. Caught in the crossfire. Glad I still have her only bit of Hololive merch.
Even with her reincarnation, she found success, but the company folded.
I hear she still streams, mostly singing, but I’ve never been able to find her.
I wanted to go more into details about yogiri but i read too many different accounts of what happened with her 2nd graduation. One of them about her company folding and the other one about her health ..so i didnt manage to confirm the reasons. I do wish her the best. Loved listening to her songs. Highly recommend
same, its such a shame for Yogiri
Is her stuff still online or removed
is she at least doing well even if she only sings? if she was the only one not even thinking about back stabbing, i hope she is still doing well.
@@rimaevenstar If memory serves, Yogiri is Taiwanese, that put her in a very sticky position.
It is hard to understate just how beloved Artia was in the EN community, having spearheaded engagement on reddit before even Coco. In fact, if anything, Artia and Coco were rivals for the Western attention in 2019/early 2020 Hololive. So the discovery of the level of betrayal Artia had committed genuinely was earth-shattering in the Western sphere. It really was like something out of a Yakuza/Like a Dragon game, coincidentally enough with how Coco had pretty much based her entire brand around that image.
In the end it's undeniable that Artia and HoloCN got their comeuppance, having not only disgraced themselves and their countrymen by behaving so shamefully and getting caught, but also ended up shutting pretty much the entirety of China out of the 2020 VTuber boom as the event sent a chilling effect at a time where Covid had everyone questioning whether or not the Chinese market was worth it.
I wouldn’t be shocked to hear if any of the more vocal participants have "gone missing" since that incident. Definitely an occasion where China's insecurities ended up costing them way more face than if they had just pretended not to notice.
Here's the actual event about that "taking the avatar with them" story. The claim was made by ywwuyi, one of Civia's mods and a very prominent moderator on NGA (the headquarter of the spamming trolls). So basically this ywwuyi guy is an entitled Fuerdai who works for a state-owned business but later went full-time streaming. He thought he was rich enough to just buy out the IP for Artia/Civia from Cover, not realizing a vtuber IP from a major corporation could easily cost millions (Suou Patra paid 774 inc. 70 million JPY for hers). He had made advances to Artia before and wanted to flex his wealth in front of her. NGA unofficially gave the Artia/Civia duo a group name "Our Girls/OG" (sooooo cringe) and spread misinformation that ywwuyi had, as a FACT, bought the IP from Cover. Then Artia/Civia further made that claim on their streams. The misinformation went even as far as they had also acquired Aqua's (the top two vtubers on Bili at the time) IP and that Aqua would graduate with HoloCN members.
There is an even more ironic side of this story. Ywwuyi got his fame by streaming KanColle content, a game that was banned in China for "portraying warships that participated in the invasion of China during WWII as cute anime girls". And on NGA he would abuse his power to ban anyone who criticizes KanColle, and would in fact use his police privilege to threaten people. So this person that was widely considered "unpatriotic" was the mastermind behind the ultranationalist attacks on Coco. And later, he would organize another massed attack against indigenous Vtuber groups in China.
And there was a prologue to the Taiwan incident. As we know foreign businesses usually don't open up local branches to do businesses directly in China, instead they often form a joint venture with a local company. This is how we got VirtuaReal (Nijisanji + Bilibili JV). Cover originally signed a contract with a local MCN company run by a person known as "Rock Man". He is an industry veteran and managed several vtubers including Kagura Nana, the most subscribed foreign Vtuber on Bilibili ever. Under his management Hololive had very healthy growth in China, approaching roughly 40% market share by the end of 2019. But he made a very inappropriate comment on the KyoAni attack which caused huge backlash. CN anime fans immediately called for his termination. Conversations of him (allegedly) harassing talents also leaked out. This caused all the translation groups, who are the de facto owner of all Hololive's official Bilibili accounts, to go on a strike and changed passwords to the official accounts. Yagoo was not aware of the situation (because he was visiting China meeting with Bilibili representatives at the time) until he realized they no longer have control over these accounts. This prompted him to terminate the contract with "Rock Man", essentially leaving them with no direct liaison in China. This sowed the seeds for the future debacle because "Rock Man" was actually a very competent person and knows how to do business safely in China. Years down the line we now know "Rock Man" did not know the death toll of the KyoAni fires at the time, made a prompt apology, and never harassed Holo talents.
Source? I was a member of Aqua's translation team and witnessed the whole event unfold. Many of us in the Aqua translation team refused to participate in the bullying. We fought our fight. We were the minorities and we lost at the time. But at the end of the day we stood on the right side of history.
I was an average fan of Hololive at that time and watched all the drama unfold under my eyes but didn’t really go into depth, I just knew the surface, by watching this video and comments, I learned more about the situation at that time, and noticed that many battles were ongoing silently without us foreigners fan not knowing about it cause of language barriers, I thank all you,soldat, for silently going through this and doing the best for the girls, it give me goosebumps how many things that we don’t know how our fellows Chinese soldats fought for the right side and didn’t yield, I salute all of you 🫡
I still believe there isn't a girl who loved Hololive and being a Holomember more than Spade Echo.
It sucks that she and the other Taiwanese talent ended up having to go because of the actions of the talents from the mainland.
Coco did a stream that she deleted soon as it was over were she ended up breaking down and crying to the point her roommate Kanata had to come into the room and hold her live on stream while she cried because the harassment was so bad...I will never forget the pain in Cocos voice as she cried. I get they regret what they did now but I'll never forgive!!!
Yes its all in my accompanying video on coco as well :)
the point where all fans went on a doxxing war against antis and literal ccp social workers
Those were obscure times. I felt so bad for Coco not being able to collaborate with anyone in Hololive to avoid the other girls' chat being spammed with anti's bots. Coco was visibly uncomfortable on those occasions, and that was a sad view. The company that brought smiles to us wasn't a happy place anymore. Eventually, Coco left Hololive because of "creative differences". And I believe it. But that's not the only reason, and we know the Chinese campaign had a big part in her decision. What I hated the most was that Haachama shared how guilty she felt and blamed herself for the whole situation. She was the youngest member of Hololive, and it left a painful mark on her. We cried a lot during and at the end of those events. I don't feel bad for how things turned out for those CN members who participated in Coco's harassment, especially Artia. But I feel bad for Yogiri, Echo, and the true Chinese Hololive fans.
It's a shame for the CN members who got caught in the cross fire of this incident, but it's nice to hear some of them are doing well and some regret their past actions.
Yeah absolutely!
they just probably learned their lesson, cuz people never change, they just hide their bad sides, actually i also was wondering about while holo cn disappear so fast, until i find truth
Or do they?
Its a conicidence the 2 who got caught on this (Yogiri and Spade) are specifically from Taiwan.
@@SenseiRaiseni thought only Yogiri is TW
Whats pretty ironic about the Taiwan incident is that the reason why they even had a name in the analytics was because Chinese users were using VPNs, which is illegal in China, to use Taiwan servers...so yeah no matter what this was likely inevitable🙃
So basically they shot themselves in the foot.
@@smilinggeneral8870 🤔............yeah pretty much
It is not illegal per se. That myth needs to be corrected
It is illegal to have a account or watch western sites - UA-cam, twitch, twitter .... all these
That’s no myth it’s a fact and either you really don’t know it and believed ccp propaganda or yourself are ccp propaganda xD (50cent army)
So just Educate yourself about the topic before writing such outrageous claims or do better pro-ccp posts that this xD
Taiwan is part of China! (but it's not behind the great firewall and also gay marriage is legal)
I joined the Fandom near the tail end of this in Nov 2020, shortly after Myths debut. I was there when the announcement of their graduation was announced, and they were unceremoniously cut off. I was there when the antis were attacking not just Coco, but anyone she was or is or will have collabed with. All the girls were trying to figure out how to moderate their chats because they knew it was upsetting Coco that they were getting attacked in addition to herself. Iirc, Flare and Suisei are prominent in my mind for actively fighting the hate and trying to support Coco. And ofc her genmates too.
I honestly didn't know that Hololive CN was leading the charge.
Cover is better off now that they cut China out.
I can't help but read your comment in Elrond's voice. 😂
I joined fandom at mid Nov 2020 too.
I think I joined in march 2020. Since the incident I started realizing how bad china is
"Flare and Suisei", also Fubuki, she was an absolute boss.
big market loss, but dignity is always number one
yagoo made the right decision, if only the rainbow company can see the same vision as yagoo
There was never an intention for Hololive to give the CN talents their models after graduation and is only spread by antis to pressure Hololive into doing so. Considering we've only heard of this from word-of-mouth and never from the official source, is telling a lot.
Doris said it in her bili bili stream but i couldnt find the vod as they were deleted or expired so who knows. It was rumored that is true
@@rimaevenstar well, it still came from a CN talent so it's unreliable.
@@sonofsueraf Oh got it yogiri and spade echo is unreliable
@@Blobfishkat yes
@@sonofsueraf Why is it unreliable?
Oof as a former Artia fan I couldn't believe it until I saw the receipts regardless only Yogiri and Spade Echo deserve well wishes. That's all I took out of that ordeal unless the video says otherwise.
Even if it says otherwise, it's pretty common misiniformation reaches everyone, not even this channel is safe from it, as the saying goes "history is written by the winners" and sadly not always time give the losers their own.
I don't wanna spoil anything yet since the video isnt released but yeah it think its fair to say it was pretty shocking
I didn't even know that she did something. I don't doubt that she could be responsible for something, it only sucks to hear that she is responsible for something fucked up.
This was a real nasty side to the industry that many had no idea about.
just makes you think that all we see as fans is the side the person wants to see you. we don't know anything.
The whole incident was messed up.
Artia was actually the first hololive member to become a reddit mod. Fast forward to today at I saw that she's infamous in /vt/ as Hololive's Judas...
Being a Reddit mod was a sign.
@@KhaosFrosty LMAO I like how real this logic is
@@KhaosFrosty??? a lot of Hololive members are Reddit mods? Watame, Marine, Kiara, etc
@@senny- yeah but she was the FIRST reddit mod which sums her behavior all up 😭
@@senny- The other girls barely do any mod works, they're mostly just there to promote.
I can't really feel bad for Artia.
She got what she wanted, supporting the country that basically took away her source of income.
and her toxic fanbase that dumped her when they saw her face.
I don't, she started a war, she got to see the end and paid for it.
she started like other pro-ccp war wolves ,use the nationalism and other will follow ,it's their key to success in china.
@@midori4713how bad her face looks like? Im dying to know now
@@RuRu0091 pbs.twimg.com/media/FRrquuBaUAEwOTF.jpg
Damn... if the new China streaming rules apply, top names in Nijisanji are gonna graduate.
Even if they choose to terminate their bilibili account, there is no way AnyColor gonna allow that since their biggest shareholder is a Chinese company.
Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Its time to bail out and u know what company waiting room “V
It's not hard to avoid the rule, I think it already happened, Nijisanji just offered up one of their CN staff members' name. Good luck to that dude. But legally the vtuber belongs to Nijisanji, not the person voicing it. The mod per member though I don't see it becoming reality, noone will volunteer for it lmao. Also doubt they are getting any superchat money for it in the first place. The chinese audience largely left nijisanji as a whole. Look at Vox Akuma stream numbers lolw.
@@arttizkappa2588stop being a stooge. The nijien livers can decide for themselves whether to stay or leave. They're not hostages and vshojo isn't a sanctuary
@@Ainomato COPIUM sure
@@Ainomatobig yikes from the future
It still fathoms me that this is considered ancient history in the Vtuber community and is studied like the WW's with old texts and citations from people who have a spotted and biased memory, when it only happened 3 years ago. Reminds me how wild and fast paced the internet is. Is this what boomers feel like?
Edit: I wrote this before watching the video and the beginning is just what I wrote with the words shifted around a bit.
While i do feel bad for her with what happened afterwards it still doesn't change the fact that she helped Contribute to what happend worh coco
You goit a point. I'm still pretty conflicted about it all now
I didn't know she had something to do with that. It kind of makes sense and just seems fucked up, but it's a very Chinese thing to do.😔
It's like "no, just because Hitler bullies you it doesn't mean you can bully Hitler back :( " lol, she deserves everything that comes to her.
i read that and was "yikes" but prolly cause im german~
but yeah at some point the "its not right to bully back" sentiment isnt gonna work anymore, yes bullying back is NOT right but its hard not to feel some sort of "justice served" knowing what happened... its more like atually seeing a "criminal" get a sentence for their actions... dont find a better analogy
but its well deserved irony that the got a taste of her own medicine though and it wasnt even from oversears fans or the JP holomems but her own community so its not like the victims bullied back anyway
Just feels like karma to me.
Not to promote harassment, but of course they lamented their actions, who doesn't after suffering the consequences? This doesn't necessarily mean that they learned that what they did was fucked up, perhaps they just learned that getting caught doing it is bad.
I don't trust apologies unless they come from someone that has changed their beliefs.
They're sorry they got caught.
If they openly said they would stop supporting China THEN maybe I’d believe them.
Of course they cant do that or risk they’re social credit so that will never happen.
Agreed. Why would I believe an apology of someone that was as two faced as Artia was? To get laughed at behind my back again? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
And till this day, reddit still refuses to admit it.
Also a small lesson learned: Never, ever, trust any self-proclaimed, vocal "centrists" on the internet.
Reddit the worst part is you can't pinpoint the accountability on the each individual on a group. I remember during the hunt of Boston Marathon bombing with someone has wrongly accused as terrorist, after it is reveal the truth, no one bring caught or reprimanded for false accusation. They just " do not trust reddit anymore" and kept silence. Nobody hold them account and nobody bring them facing the music of their wrongful accusation
Reddit won't admit because Tencent owns a 5% stake in the company.
Reddit is and will always be full of room temperature idiots.
@@ResidentWeevil2077Whoa, 5%? That's a lot, for a business like Reddit
22:08 she got hate because she didn't find her fans' beauty standards... sorrounded herself with toxic people then got toxic treatment, that's karma for ya!
honestly. Her IRL face doesn't even look bad.
@@prophetmuhammad3890she can look like a goddess and there will still be people calling her ugly. You'll always be ugly in someone's eyes.
@@prophetmuhammad3890But her personality is
@@prophetmuhammad3890where can I see it?
@@prophetmuhammad3890asia in general has a strict beauty standard. East asia in particular puts a lot of unrealistic expectations on female beauty.
Of course abusers want to move on from their abuse, they don't want consequences for their actions. They just want other people to suffer. It's a lot easier to move on if you're not the one who suffered in the first place.
This really feels like a fairy tale story, complete with the "main villain" being betrayed by the same people she thought she was fighting for
Karma is a bitch, and Artia knows that firsthand. Justice has been served.
Also, will you ever cover Aloe’s tragic story in Hololive? She’s doing better now, but times were different back then. Hololive wasn’t as good in terms of protection of the talents as it is now. Her story is something that everyone can look back on as a tragedy that could have been prevented if the higher ups stepped in.
I’d have to somehow make it a bit different since she’s been talked about alot before but i would definitely love to as she has a very interesting story
i think that Aloes situation is also a good cautionary tell for fandoms on how good intentions can backfire, because the well meaning the defense of Aloe by overseas fans made her antis escalate their harassment out of annoyance.
@@rimaevenstarI think you should do it regardless if others have already talked about it. It’s important to bring to light how the antis can actually have a negative effect on the talents and their mental health. It almost serves as a public announcement of sorts; especially considering how Gura is being attacked currently. Also, I really enjoy your content and think it would be a perfect fit for your current catalogue of videos. But in the end, it’s your choice.
I still argue that their measures are inadequate. They just got better at preventive measures. If things actually hit the fans. I don't see cover being very effective in protecting their talents. But I'd at least hope they don't throw them under the bus
Provided the allegations were true, I always found it karmic that draconian legislation by the very government she simped for destroyed her career
It's satisfying to see the karma that's comes back on Artia for her actions but the fact that her fanbase turned against her because she didn't meet their beauty standard just makes me disturbing to see how twisted those Chinese fans are
I remember when this all happened. I remember watching the Coco stream. I remember Haachama's accident. I remember thinking the HoloCh girls were pure and innocent. I remember reporting every anti I saw in Coco's chat. I remember supporting Coco during that time. I remember learning about the lies and hypocrisy. I remember hating the antis. I remember being disgusted when I saw any content related to the HoloCn girls. I remember when they said they would keep their models and wishing they would need to pay thousands of dollars to keep it. I remember their graduations. I remember the antis getting mad again. I remember learning to forgive the HoloCn girls and move on after I saw them suffer from their mistakes they had chosen. I remember when Coco and Haachama came back from their break. I remember watching Coco and Haachama cry on stream. I remember Coco graduating. I remember Haachama crying and being thankful of Coco for being the bigger sister who protected her and took the brunt of the antis harassment. I remember. . . Kiryuu Kai forever
You, sir, are a living proof of history
Same... And also thank you
You still remember how you fall into the rabbit hole?
@@democard1199I do. A funny dog lady held a skull and said 'Ikka Booka!'
The skull replied *'Eekum Bokum,'*
and the dog responded in kind.
Yes, Coco had big shoulder and stong mental on this, she was the legend, she always will be.
Flare and Kanata also shine in this story as they collab with Coco, and there is this moment where Flare straight up said she will collab with Coco cause she wants and wouldn't care about harassment and bot as she put after the chat in member only. It was badass.
Suisei also did some good move back then, such as upgrading member of her channel to mod to kill bots on sight.
And FBK took also quite a bit crossfire as China saw her as an ambassador for Hololive, but she never stop being that ambassador and show her love for other Holomem, included Coco.
While back then it was trouble, now, it really feels like they were heroes in an anime that stand out against adversity with teetee.
Seeing this again always reminds me how great of a leader Yagoo is, guys protect his talent as much as they can instead bow down to money, I can't thank him enough for being the way he is.
I still remember that during the first ark collaboration between artia and moona, they got some troubles in games at midnight. Coco helped them solve the problem right after they call for help. It's a small thing, but it really pissed me when I saw artia jumped out to point fingers at coco right after the incident happened.
Never forget what Chinese ultranationalists took from us. Also don't forget that Coco kaichou is happy right now, she's living the whole opposite of what the antis wanted.
i still remember watching moona, artia and coco playing ark together very early on. it was literally a rare english stream at that time. I liked civia before everything happened.
In fact Moona's two ARK collabs with Artia are still up on her channel.
In her pursue to be another Coco she end up been outed by attacking her.
In game terms, she try to play amongus, got the impostor role, but got ejected by attempt a sabotage.
Amongus IRL
Never knew they had a CN branch but what's done is done
This is why im here 😎
Damn now I feel old
Man next thing we hear is people saying they never knew of the H.C. incident prior to gen1 lol
@abbysaito5348 in seriousness I don't know either a I wasn't there to hear it happen. (I came in the late Spring of 2020 shortly after ID1 debuted, after the infamous Miko GTA5 clip)
@@SrMissileMonkey it was a dark time for covercorp as the vtuber boom was just taking off and everyone was learning the dos and don'ts. We're in a much better space now. Maybe one day rimaevenstar will make a video on the lost vtuber of hololive? Maybe even aloe. I'm glad she's doing better.
If you ignore the past it may happen again, good job bringing this up.
This all happened around the time I started watching Vtubers with HoloMyth and I remember it being a very muddy situation back then.
Good to get a refresher after all these years. Well done on the video 👍
I personally believe that Holo CN was destined to fail sooner or later, the political game that the country it manages would bring problems in the future. It was a very risky move for Cover to leave CN but in the end it was the right decision, they did not need them to grow and be today the most dominant company with the most visibility in the Vtuber world.
for me it was even more risky to not leave CN after that, also for the talents cause i dont want to imagine what people woul have done to the CN talents that would have stayed with cover after expelling the others...
and well, that incident even helped them to get PR and not bending to china in the end was a big boost though despite the graduation of coco in the end because if they had, a lot of western people would have revolted and i think it was clear that china wouldnt sit with that incident anyway... i mean just look at blizzards downfall who tried to appease to china and got completly shut dow in china anyway after even banning people from tournaments for standing with hong kong...
which caused a streisand effect because even more people called the company out on that and well given cover started to get a footing in the rest of the world with holo myth, it was the better decision to let CN go, holding on to the community that actively causes the harm would have been insane anyway....
@@AnbuAssasine If cover chose to stick up with china market ,cn fanbase will start demanding more bilibili-only contents ,means more proportion on a chinese only market , there'll be not that much English speaker talents like now ,they can punish the company easier with money ,basically made it a puppet
@@skruber8619 yeah, CN people can be greedy, like for a game that got CN only rewards, game then handed out Global only(irony CN isnt involved in Global) rewards, CN players rioted.
Game then also decided to separate CN and CN social media etc completly.
The suspension of coco just showed the Trolls that their harassement worked..at that moment it was over in my opinion.
And now the antis habe no hololive content anymore. What would rev say.. you reap what u sow? While that prolly fits more to Artia though
@@AnbuAssasine yep that's what I think too ,they had to do it to show the ccp they care about Taiwan incident ,so they chose "removing a single talent" as an easier mission to accomplish.
Coco is out and it's basically over ,they lost holoCN and future opportunities ,imo the biggest lost is they can no longer participate as "CN fans" anymore ,all they can do is reupload contents to Bilibili and pretent hololive is still there.
It's good that this blew up as soon as it did, and especially with Coco at the helm. Because she handled everything like a champ, and steered Hololive into a better future with more prospects.
Things might not have been the same if this controversy came at a later time when the CN branch was larger, more people got hurt, and Hololive had more strings attached to the Chinese market.
Although I started watching Hololive way after the accident, thank you for compiling and covering this part of hidden history. Its unfortunate that things ended up that way, but it's nice hearing some of them are doing well. Well, I do understand Chinese and could read through those screenshots but it's really hard to dig through all the information and determine if its true or not. Once again, thank you for the effort you have made to summarize for the new fans.
And all this happened because the woman who used to be Kiryu Coco mentioned Taiwan being part of a viewership poll in a stream.
Artia is managing her own vtuber corpo in her little corner in bilibili.
Yogiri has been inactive for months and has resurfaced recently in a cover song.
Also don’t forget how Arita’s fanbase turned on her for not living up to their beauty standards.
Sighs, I'm glad the others like Echo is doing well. I always wondered how they're doing. Even tho I checked an update video like a few months ago. Thank you. ;-;
That situation was a clusterfuck. I remember being around and liking Civia a lot (not oshi levels but close). I hope the ones who had to learn from this did and glad that Spade Echo ended up doing well. Shame Yogiri didn't as much but hope her the best.
Same here.
I remember Civia's Xmas stream (or was it new year's eve?) It was one of the bests experiences.
At first i was pretty much sad of her graduation (i did not know about this situation at all)
Imagine using a Taiwan VPN to watch west UA-cam then malds at Coco for having Taiwan viewers in her UA-cam analytics...
Claiming Taiwan is theirs.
Found out directly-travel is banned.
Use Taiwan vpn to watch banned oversea contents.
Found out being listed in the Taiwanese viewers.
Clown_Makeup. jpg
The very case of 'Do not shoot the messenger' because the one who provided those statistics is Google.
This event has led to a lot of the older english Vtuber fans be anti-China full stop, even when a lot of them used to he apolitical.
While still apolitic in some way, we now know better on how to not deal with Chinese government
I’m just started to see mainlander in the new light before this thing happened.
And now I’m became fully xenophobic against them.
(Can’t use racists because I don’t have problem with Taiwanese also myself actually almost pure blood Chinese.)
While I used to be a not full-on anti-China before, after this incident, that tiny little spark turned into a raging hot fire.
This video just reminded me of why I HATE China with a burning passion! Lot of them are willing to backstab to save their own skin and it shows with how Artia behaves behind closed doors and her leading the harassment campaign.
It's to the point that I'm ashamed to have Chinese blood run through my veins, when it's supposed to my Filipino blood that should make me ashamed of being a Filipino, like those memes! But at this point, I'd prefer to be a Filipino more than to be Chinese.
Maybe its because I’m sheltered on chinease cultures or probably because school for some reason never taught us about current day China.
(Only North Korea)
But I actually had NO idea China was even like this before this incident. I thought they were just like any other country and not a stricter Russia and slightly less strict North Korea.
The taiwan incident changed the community...
They will not be missed nor ever be welcomed back (except for the ones that might be innocent or neutral on this situation) yet above all this paint CN a bad light all because of a Analytics thats all nothing else at all !
Its kind of funny how one of the innocent vtubers in this event became the most successful, echo. The other 3 are just snakes though.
@@noahherrera3253
The other innocent one graduated though. Hopefully it was a private life choice and not something put of her control.
the name "Taiwan" and the Taiwanese flag are always big trigger point for China
@@skruber8619At this point, those words are a gatekeep codes to prove if they can keep their own politics to themselves.
@@noahherrera3253 What about Yogiri? Wasn’t she innocent too?
"Theres no way my ex oshi can be this evil" manga
I always thought that Artia was an Aqua pallete swap.
Bruh 😂
When I first got into hololive late 2019, I've only seen 4 of the CN members. Artia, Civia, Yogiri, and Spade Echo. The former two felt odd while I enjoyed the later two. Glad I trusted my instincts and stopped watching the former two. What they did to Yogiri was just awful.
Still, even to this days, people are still dead set on saying Artia was the victim, can't blame them, they were played like a fiddle since Day 1.
That really is some impressive manipulation tactics that can put many fans on copium. Hypothetically I could believe anyone *BUT* Artia was a victim of peer pressure. But she is ground zero, the one who started it all, plus she is an edgy shitposter. She is definitely not a “victim” in this.
The Mindless English followers didn't even realize that she and her Chinese followers were trash talking them too.
21:12 Please, don't be fooled! Civia is a master manipulator! The sweet girl is a complete facade! She 100% was harassing Coco on her alt account.
I agree that nobody deserves to be harassed, even Civia. Just don't be a fool and believe in her. Don't forget and forgive.
Genuinely curious, can you show the proof that she did? Never heard about this and want to know.
@@FlashFireBlast too much work. Go to 4ch.
@@FlashFireBlast too much work. Go to 4ch and ask folks there
Yep! I remember all fans putting the blame on artia only back then@@FlashFireBlast
Share proofs because I refuse to believe that Civia could have been a perpetrator when Yagoo literally thanked and said his farewells to Civia even after all the chaos.
Even if she did ‘harass’, she and her family are under the party so she would likely not have a choice
That must sting revealing your face to people you though supported you and they turn on you
Its so poetic Coco/kson showing her face and everyone loves them
I think on Coco/Kson's fortune, some of her viewers already knew her "other persona". It just became natural for people to transition from our dragon waifu to kson.
@@Phanthesma coco/kson was a open secret to her fans and most of hololive. at the time she was streaming on both.
Man, I'd never watched Yogiri before Holo CN dissolved, but on the 1-year anniversary of her Graduation someone uploaded her Graduation which was also her 3D debut to UA-cam and it made me feel so sad, she was seemingly just a wholesome bean. If she crops up again elsewhere I'd like to know, but that doesn't seem likely :(
ps. I also found it hard to believe the claims against Civia for the same reasons as you, which is funny (and sad), I was a big Artia fan back in the day, but when the stuff was coming out about those CN members, I had no problem believing she would do that.
There is a chance Cvia was likely forced to join the harassment campaign but I admit thats just me on copium
yeah just found that video cause i looked into yogiri after this video and found that, makes it all the more sad... same goes for spade though...
but seeing what happened and what laws china passed, the graduation was maybe even a blessing in disguise for her, at least i could see the antis going after the members who would have stayed with cover after all that....
I documentary video on Hololive CN? Yessir! Let's go
Your vtubing journalism is so solid, you should rig up a fedora / trilby with the "Press" card inserted into the rim, and maybe come up with some kind of intro phrase in an obnoxiously heavy New Jersey accent. Really sell that hard-hitting, muckraker aspect of the vids.
Anyway, this is a must-watch for newcomers to the hobby. It's a story that needs to be told, both for history's sake and as a multi-layered lesson in general. Honestly, the end of it all is disturbingly reflective of a war's outcome, which has no clearly defined winners, but losers aplenty. There are still those who (with the best intentions, I believe) want to try the vtubing in China experiment again, but after watching this and reflecting on the social and business costs of this entire debacle, I can confidently say that Hololive China is dead and buried for good.
Well done, Rima, and thank you for all of your hard work. Transparency and integrity in reporting the truth is not as widespread as many believe, but it's important in all things, even something as tangential as vtbing journalism.
“In war there is no winners..only widows” and lol the first part of ur comment cracked me up
This era was the most hectic era for Hololive
This incident was so Damn wild it spawn so many rumors including the Top Coco harrasser was Artia's Boyfriend and so much more.
What a riot
*nodders* joined the rabbithole later but a the time it was still a big topic
okay just saw the moment i joined was 6 days after cocos graduation stream, so ofc it was a big topic...
but i have to say, i had good people around me that time, i hardly got any misinformation, i got more information about the CN members but the false facts were actually called out back then for me when i asked questions.... but yeah the more i looked into the incident the more i was actually happy not be around during that time just knowing how some JP members were harassed makes my blood boil
holy shit, so that's where the boyfriend rumor came from...
Thank you for making this video! The Chinese betrayal shouldn't be forget and forgiven!
If you consider this a betrayal I don't know what to tell you. This kind of behaviour is entirely to be expected from them.
@@michielmanders9766 It is a betrayal. Betrayal is the sense of being harmed by the intentional actions or omissions of a trusted person.
@@mapleflag6518 If you say so. I'm personally gonna go with the actual dictionary definition, you do you though.
Great job on the Vid as always and I’m happy to see that Pippa clip.
Pippa so fresh! Tysm
You handled this topic as diplomatically as possible, so I hope nobody yeets hate in your direction. Thank you for your efforts and service to this niche market. Keep up the good work, Rima.
Oh yeah i forgot and you should put this on the video.
Artia is the reddit mod for the official hololive subreddit. So the questions and confusion is palpable
I think at the time I was misled too and thought the talents themselves Artia included were innocent and I remember saying please don’t feel like it’s your fault that CN had to go under. Now I regret that completely since learning the truth not that much after CN was shut down. I think it’s also sad that Artia did all that out of a sense of pride for her nationality only to be rejected by her fans when her face was revealed IRL. Tragic but I don’t wish them ill will
Thing is, she wasn't lying about the statement that streamers or youtubers don't actually love their fans just cause they say they do. Basically saying "parasocial relationship bad". Which i agree with.
Never knew there was even a Hololive CN wow. What happened to Coco and Haachama at that time was so wrong but well what's done is done.
What I've learned here is that karma's a bish, be nice to people no matter what.
it was a few years ago by now coco who is kson is now stronger then ever
@@Hitman2band I hope Haachama can stop blaming herself after all these years man
Wait, Yogiri has completely graduated? I'm sad for her.
Also, I knew Doris had completely disappeared but I had no idea she got into drama before that.
the most innocent seeming people are often the worst, because theyre manipulative and good at acting, and the only thing she regrets is being caught/the consequences
The first vtuber stream I ever caught live was Civia's graduation, and I don't know if I would've fallen so hard into this community if I hadn't been there. I was at a very low point in my life, the kind of low point some people don't come back from, and to see such an outpouring of love in her chat, so many people so emotionally invested and sorrowful at what was effectively a simple retirement party, filled me with a sense of longing. It was something I wanted for myself, to feel so strongly for something that I could experience the kind of emotions I was seeing in so many others at that moment.
I don't know if she ever truly did the things she was accused of, and at this point I don't think it really matters; it's not as if I ever really knew her in the first place. But I'll always be grateful to Civia, for cultivating a fanbase that cared about her enough to help me care about myself again.
Great video Rima, I never watched any of the CN branch back then so I didn’t really know about any of this. Very informative, thanks!
I felt so betrayed when this happened back in 2020.
Man it's crazy so much. I wish the best for everyone involved. Thank you for the very informative video 👍.
Ty nova! ❤️
I discovered Coco at the exact same time she was under suspension, and got to see first hand how much the west taiwan antis spammed their chat. The thing about this situation is that it doesn't really matter who did what. The level of dedication, persistance and organization of antis was so impressive that there was no other way than to excise the entire CN tumor regardless of guilt or innocence.
What i find most fucked up is the government forcing citizens to dox themselves as a prerequisite. It's basically forcing people to a life of 996.
Oh here it is
Thanks for the video! \o/
Ur very welcome ^^
Pippa liked Artia? Why am I not surprised
What do you mean?
Glad to see more people talking about what happened behind the scenes with the CN branch of HoloLive. Artia was a truly toxic, awful human being for how she encouraged and organized the harassment of her fellow HoloMembers. For a company to employ someone like that, she had to have kept that side of her hidden deep behind closed doors. Being overseas helped, I'm sure but when interacting with others she truly held up a mask for the public to see while her antis saw the real her.
Cases like her show us that, yes, VTubers are people behind the avatars. They are not flawless beings, capable of both acceptable mistakes and truly unforgivable toxicity. We as fans need to remember that when we watch these entertainers. Some of them are not as pure and wholesome as they've lead us to believe.
I used to think fans just exaggerating (usual 4chan delusions) but after seeing the real evidences I just lost for word. Seriously, the toxicity of these people
@@hafirenggayuda
A broken clock is right twice a day
Another great video essay Rima!
This is a difficult topic to talk about given the various circumstances, but I'm glad you are able to touch on this topic. Thanks Rima.
i still feel bad for Yogiri and Spade echo, they didn't want part of it and couldn't voice their opinion, lost their job because of Artia
Ive been on this place since the HoloGamers debuts. Didn't really watched Coco, most likely Okayu & Fubuki. But when she announced her graduation, i do feel sad about it. She is the reason holoEN exists. Feel like its just a year ago tbh
I remembered I was just starting to like Yogiri shortly before the whole fiasco happened. After the entire CN branch got wiped, I simply moved on from it. Unfortunate, but it's already in the past.
There are many lessons that can be learned from this incident, but the one that people should learn at any point in their life is "there is always consequences behind an action" or something along that line. Idk, I'm not a wise guy.
Anyway, thanks for making this video. It makes a lot of thing much clearer compared to during the chaos back then.
Artia had hit the jackpot, the secret recipe. She couldve been a huge success. She got the CN audience, with the niche concept of a vtuber at that time, even tho she was small compared to the other streamers that arent vtubers. She got the EN audience, and was rather popular too. But then the 4th gen debuted, and along came Coco, someone who could speak JP and EN, and was a lot more foulmouthed than Artia. Around the time of the Analytics incident, Artia was already planning to move back to CN. So she was trying to secure a decent base in bilibili, start to pander for the expected future audience. When things went out of proportion with rumors of HoloCN disbanding, she panicked and pulled several other members along, tried to manipulate things to their benefit, especially the keeping their model thing. Models arent cheap, and it would be rough starting again from the beginning. Cover directly cutting them off would ruin them all. The few loyal fans who knew the truth tried to whistleblow, but got pushed down by either foreigners who thought they knew better, or antis pretending to be fans. At least that was how i see things, as someone who has been following them since Gamers.
There was also the clippers. Those that first took clips and translated them into chinese and post them on bilibili, the reason Hololive originally planned to enter the CN market. CN lacks foreign stuff aside from those that entered via official channels and allowed by the government, so most foreign contents are videos copied from youtube/twitch and translated over. They do the same tactics in promoting CN to foreigners with random videos on youtube. Thankfully they only sent Aqua and Fubuki first to test the waters. It was actually good reception, minus the fact that both sides dont really understand each other due to language barrier, which is where the clippers came in. I still find it funny that several CN Holo clippers that used to post on youtube quit in protest of Cover not firing Coco and Haato.
Oh boy this one is a hololive classic at this point and seeing how all of this unfolds is just so satisfying because in the end the victims got the good ending well most of them because Yogiri and Spade Echo was innocent but still caught in the crossfire, this two deserve more especially knowing what happened to Yogiri after the whole ordeal, from starting over again and finding a new company to another graduation again after the company experienced a problem.
I got to watch the video a bit late (even had notification on for it) but still. Great vid and honesty great conclusions. Normally I would think people would still end one sided, but your reasoning is good!
Wew, this one hurts but it’s also on her. I quite liked her but yeah…
Crazy times. The spams were so bad in Kaichou's live chat.
Holy fu- that dodge on the new law is clutch. Dang, good thing they pull out from that.
I never got to see her
I witnessed it all go down, start to finish. I was never enamored with Artia the way a lot of reddit was, I always felt her "haha I shitpost like a westerner" shtick was paper deep, and I was indifferent to the rest of holoCN. But I was one of the ones who wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt when those allegations first came out. It's so crazy to me how the wolf-warrior wannabes would mock and belittle western holofans for just wanting to believe in people's better natures, for not immediately defaulting to tribalist aggression and naturally assuming the holoCN mems would be enemies. It's the kind of mockery you find in villain monologues. HoloCN were vtubers and holomems. Having the Internet mob turn on you was a job hazard they ALL risked, and they should have been sympathetic to that. But I guess if they were capable of that kind of reflection, they wouldn't make very good wolf-warriors...
Damn well said. Especially the part that it’s a job hazard. Because lets face it: IT IS
I've watched so much laowhy86, serpentza and china uncensored to feel surprised at the way these wolf warriors acted towards foreigners. Because they are willing to do the same to their own people, sometimes even worse.
Many lump them with nationalists, but no, these people aren't loyal to their own nation, they're only loyal to themselves and the ccp.
China has legislations limiting practices of religion/spirituality and because of that, there's been a collapse/degradation of morals with the general population. That's why there are a lot of scams, cutting corners with food safety (especially with the rise of Chinese black food technology), lack of quality control, and those are just a few. It doesn't help that quality of living in China gets worse by the day too and the CCP doesn't do anything to improve that.
I'm not saying religion in general is necessary to maintain a certain degree of morality, but it does play a big part.
@@janarcangel49 I'm not sure why you brought religion into this, but given that I'm a hard anti-theist, you'll find nothing but passionate disagreement from me towards your claim that religion is in any way important or necessary for a morally upright society.
@@7QWERTY13 I respect that. Like i said in my last comment, I didn't say that it was necessary, but it does play a part. China has always been big on spirituality since ancient times if Confucianism and Buddhism is any indication. It doesn't have to be learned within the confines of organized religion, but just keeping some of the teachings/quotes themselves in mind (the actual good ones) is good.
Royal match the GOAT for sponsoring!
Yess
Will you be doing anything else on this topic? Say for example how China continues to harass Hololive and Kson. Like how Fubuki and Matsuri's cameo was removed from an anime they were a part of. Or Momosuzu Nene's first voice acting role in an anime was completely nuked from the show in question and erased from the credits? You already mentioned how Kson was blurred out on the Like a Dragon stream, but have you seen what they've been trying to do to the game? All of these are official acts of censorship by the Chinese government itself.
Nyanner's own character designer refused to work with VShojo because Kson joined. God there could be an entire omnibus volume of all of the Chinese hate and hypocrisy for these Vtubers.
I speak about most of these on my Kiryu Coco video u should check it out!
Imagine being so brainwashed by your own government to do this, just because of one person
it's their lost ,their own people have to play oversea version games ,watch uncensored anime with vpn ,and their cosplayers getting attack because of the ccp's anti-Japan policy.
It's not only vtubers ,oversea chinese news tellers are also face-blured
So the main architect of the harassment was called ugly by her own fans and fled the internet? 🎊 🎉
Oh man, I was there during that time. I was not happy with how naive the overseas community was. There was so much we didn't know yet people were blindly assuming things without stopping to think. I had already learned my lesson from the Aloe incident where the non-stop support from the overseas fans ended up doing more harm than good.
Anyway, I do love the delicious irony of Coco, the target of the Chinese antis, is more successul than ever. You love to see it, I'm happy for her.
and she went to Taiwan ,a place they claim as theirs but cannot come (need to travel through third party country like China->Thailand->Taiwan)