I just think it’s because of weeb culture being seen as weird and cringe. Think about it: If you’re not into anime stuff at all and you start seeing an anime girl streamer that gets tons of donations/superchats from people that actually watch them, you’re gonna think they’re really weird for giving money away to an anime girl.
I think it is just a a cultural clash really, because your dealing with people anonymity and trust. A example when I first came in and ironmouse was getting popular and people were doubting it I saw people auto attack them like a defensive mechanism and it worked at first because they were not that many. But now look at how many are coming in to the space and I first noticed these I said In videos people need to chill and explain because there will be a point were your going to attack someone who is big in the real world that will have consequences to those actions. A example of these even look at nuxtaku he is not that big or look at hololive and china it can get real crazy with companies and governments stepping in.
I've heard the argument of people thinking that V-Tubers are "cheating" due to this idea of not grinding the same that previous "UA-camrs" had to do in the past with viewership and subscriptions.
I think the hate can be summed up with the following: Lack of understanding Cultural clash Jealousy It’s anime adjacent Weeb culture A possible link to furries They don’t think VTubers are actual people
We should also precise, for them anything related to "weeb" is equal = Pedobear allegations. And any female vtuber that don't have any issues is certainly a reddit moderator that act as a woman with voice modifications.
I doubt hating on furries is a general thing, they are in a protective bubble like the woke crowd, in regards to gender politics and identity politics. It's the more conservative types of thinkers who are targeted, these types don't care about your stance so long as you aren't forcing them to participate or messing with their communities or environment.
@@frostygoul2229 To be fair furries have some of the worst takes so it makes it easy to hate on them, like how can a furry say liking loli/shota is weird when they are a furry? it's not even arguably more weird as it is definitely more weird. But it's not all furries that do it just a loud minority as the good ones are minding their own business while the bad ones are making them all look bad
Crazy thing about cartoons? Initially, they were NOT for kids. Their purpose was to entertain the adults in the audience before the start of the movie. THEY WERE ALWAYS FOR ADULTS THIS WHOLE TIME MUAHUAHUAHUAHUA!!!!!!!!!!!!
And anyone that doesn't believe that can simply check the old, OLD cartoons. Early Disney, Walter Lantz, Hanna-Barbera and so on. Disney especially made entire episodes CENTERED around subjects that UA-cam will shadowban you for trying to mention directly.
People also hate those that rejects their existence too. Especially if their actions generated a lot of backlash from the public. Something no one talks about is generational radicalization.
The Vtuber hate is a weird one. Some people say its cringe, weird, weebs, ect. Its out of the ordinary tbh and also real people do the same stuff. I see vtubers as wanting to have a private life, safety, while being able to express themselves online, they like the anime culture, etc. Parasocial phenomenon has also caused problems for all content creators vtuber or not. Plenty of people have been stalked.
They're just streamers who use an avatar to protect their identity. That's all. Because of its origins (Japan), it is steeped in idol and otaku culture. Some aspects of that culture are bad, some are good. The haters don't care either way. They'll justify their hatred any way they can. What bugs them is that it's different. They hate different.
Let’s be honest everyone, she’s just defending this because she is one. They only do this because the number of lonely men is insanely high meaning insanely high profits, everything is fake, including the experience we’re getting, and the only reason this is so popular is because of these factors along with the “cute manipulation” that even animals use. Also that private life stuff is pure BS, there are many entertainers on YT that just make the content WITHOUT needing to show their face! Shocker right, who else didn’t know this was an option? So, everything you said can be shot down, all the evidence of how bad this is cannot be ignored, and I pray to god that everyone that needs to see these fake girls just to function properly gets some REAL help!
@@loganwolverine5849 yeah there are streamers who make content without showing a face but a lot of them use something to identify themselves some kid of image to represent them how is using a 2d or 3 model any different its just a higher tech way of doing that. Quit being an asshole and judging people for something you don't like/understand. And if you hate vtubers why do you keep watching Rima's videos we can see you comment history is it just to spread hate? Get a life
Comparing vTubers to Wrestlers is my go-to explanation of vTubers to normies. They seem to understand this quicker when you tell them "their gimmick is white fox talking about politics" or "astronaut cat playing rts games".
Wrestling is a form of theater, and vtubing is highly theatrical, especially at the professional level. I grew up with wrestling as a kid, so it was easy to grasp the culture surrounding it.
@@therealjaystone2344 Well some of the hate for videogames is justified now. I'm talking about micro transactions, unfinished games, always online even in single player, NFT crypto games.
@@dra6o0n That is true, I hate them, Rationally can understand that my issues stem from myself but I loathe these fake ass, insentience, titty bouncing, giddy personas. I've got too parasocial before and ruined my life which is my fault, completely my accountability but illogical part of me wants to seek outer reasons for the struggles in my life which I am 100% responsible for. Honestly, I just wish I there was an option mass hide this phenomena, I try do not recommend this stuff every time I see it pop up, but the algorithms work against me, I suppose my case is a bit different from most, but that is to say, people can have many more reasons to hate something than what appears on the surface. P.S. I should prolly find a therapist but oh well.
The thing is, the streamers that get the most mad are generally the ones who are sitting there talking crap about random topics and videos in exactly the same way as Vtubers. They refuse to see that it's the exact same thing that they're doing either because they just see animé and turn off, or because they just want to farm hatred. It's also exactly the same hatred and lack of understanding that streaming in general went through as it became more mainstream, so I don't expect it to halt the niche's popularity at all.
@dra6o0n In what way are they different? IRL or Vtuber, they're streaming to entertain an audience and make their living through ads, sponsorships, and audience donations. Both are doing it for money and community, and we shouldn't assume either to be wrong. It's only when an individual starts pushing hate or abusing their audience that we should be questioning their motives.
@@dannywatson4253 One has profit as a form of motivation, the other socialization as their motivation. Why do you think talents overwhelm themselves with numerous projects when the fans never asked them to? They like the attention but also to get to know their fans, to the point where they do multiple projects for the sake of making them happy. But simply being healthy and enjoying their time is what all fans would easily want.
@@dra6o0n But that's not exclusive to either category of streamer. Nor are the motivations mutually exclusive. If there is any dichotomy at all, its that vtubers are more associated with women, and fleshtubers are more associated men. Men and Women each have different advantages in certain types of grifts; as does facetubing and vtubing. For example- Product and Investment grifts require an illusion of legitimacy; hence Guy Streamers, Reviewers and Essayists are the ones best suited to pushing it. Brand grifts require parasocial exploitation; hence Anime girls, Tiddystreamers, and Gaming personalities have stronger sway. All that said, I've seen incidents of all sides having fair share of controversy, criminal investigations, and disconnects from reality. Crappy people are attracted to attention and money.... and internet based audiences offer ample opportunity for both, but with much lower risk and initial investment compared to other media. The expo'se category of journalist and/or content creators is especially prone to hypocrisy; as audiences see legitimacy and scrutiny as opposite ends of a spectrum. Yet the space is just as filled with plagiarism, criminals and audience manipulation as a lot of other adjacent genres. I've lost track of the number times an online personality that was considered trusted and critical, end up having their audiences turn against them due to their previously unknown opinions on something being exposed, revealed to have had a long term lack of due diligence, or just straight up horrible individuals pretending to be "a people".
At first I thought Vtubers were just people playing games or doing "just chatting" streams with an avatar, so I wasn't super interested, but when I finally got into watching the Holostars EN boys, I was blown away by how creative and multi-talented these people are. Multilingual, playing instruments, singing, comedy, art, etc. Vtubing is a medium that lets them share all that with the world, and if they don't want to show their IRL face or just enjoy having a cool avatar, then more power to them.
Let’s be honest everyone, she’s just defending this because she is one. They only do this because the number of lonely men is insanely high meaning insanely high profits, everything is fake, including the experience we’re getting, and the only reason this is so popular is because of these factors along with the “cute manipulation” that even animals use. Also that private life stuff is pure BS, there are many entertainers on YT that just make the content WITHOUT needing to show their face! Shocker right, who else didn’t know this was an option? So, everything you said can be shot down, all the evidence of how bad this is cannot be ignored, and I pray to god that everyone that needs to see these fake girls just to function properly gets some REAL help!
@@loganwolverine5849 I read your whole comment and I can tell you've never even watched a vtuber once, and on top of that you didn't even (properly) read the comment you're responding to (for one thing, it said they watch the male vtubers). You're also assuming that all the fans "need to see these girls just to function", dude it's just entertainment and fun, not an addictive drug. If you hate vtubers then you must also hate muppets. I just looked around and it looks like you c&p this same comment in reply to many posts, so no you didn't read the post at all and you are just spreading your ignorant pre-written reply all over the place while believing you must obviously know better than anyone else here. Bet you barely even watched the video.
I like how you brought up the sentiment that "Animation is for babies". It's a very western idea, where cartoons are either explicitly targeted towards children, or they are satirical, unserious works for brain-off entertainment (Family Guy, American Dad, The Simpsons, etc). The paradigm is shifting lately, albeit slowly.
If you think Family guy, American Dad, The Simpsons, etc are for brain off entertainment that means you are shutting YOUR brain off before watching. All these shows make major political statements, and also societal statements masked in humor. They are far from brain off entertainment.
@@Artista_Frustrado Then they should compare that kind of shows to stuff like, say, Ren & Stimpy or Beavis and Butthead. I'd say all the series mentioned before are very different than either one of those two. I could see people showing especially The Simpsons to their kids but I'm not sure how many would let them watch Ren & Stimpy.
10:15 I tried to explain that point to my own mother about Ironmouse's voice. I keep myself educated on medicine and the human body as a hobby, and also out of concerns for my own health. Her response was essentially "I know better than you, and that isn’t how that works." Because yes, you who knows absolutely nothing about this industry, this person, and about the human body would know so much more than me who knows all those things. Typical hater attitude.
For me it’s gotten to the point where I can’t even be frustrated at it, all I can do is laugh at those types of people. Nothing is funnier than watching people who very clearly have no idea what they are talking about trying to claim that they know better than you. Anytime someone tries doing that to me I just openly laugh at them, because they already don’t take me seriously, so why should I? You get used to morons who think they know more than they actually do far quicker than you would like, unfortunately.
@@Subject_GR33N It has always been a thing for those who hold hobbies that seem hard to grasp at first. Now it's vtubers, back then it was anything geek related. Comic books, PC games, Tabletop and D&D, list goes on. The only small mercy back in the day was that you didn't have influencers going around exploiting their targets for global clout.
It’s honestly pretty sad how Vtubing has been treated this year (and earlier years as well). First Selen gets terminated from Nijisanji and everything goes to more shit, Twitch starts suspending Vtubers because they show too much skin despite tub streamers being *right* *there* and they’re completely fine, people have thrown shade at Ironmouse in the past for winning awards and since she became the #1 streamer of Twitch for a bit, she’s only gotten MORE shade. It’s just sad. It’s a niche thing that really only took off 4 years ago, and I think we’re at the lowest point right now.
Probably, it's not new enough to be interesting because of that, it's not small enough to be a comfy niche. It's just that annoying middle size where the initial interest has died down, so it's not growing a lot. But at the same time it's known enough to have new people come in, unfortunately quite a few of those have decided to act like complete buffoons
I disagree with this. Yes, I understand that a lot of negativity happened in the Vtubing space this year, especially the circumstances surrounding Selen and how Twitch treated streamers using Vtuber models. However, despite all that, Vtubing is quite far from the "lowest" point.
@VydijaRuksana It is because those types of people are always looking for someone to burn at the stake. But it rarely works, see Mori Calliope, they tried very hard to cancel the pink woman but they always failed. And it shows how insane they are for even going after and targeting VTubers since most VTubers are pretty left leaning anyway, but for the crazies it is never enough.
honestly a lot of the bad actors around this sorta stuff all give off clear "ive never been hit or confronted for my negative actions" vibes. there is 0% chance they would so loudly voice their negative opinions if they actually where in the same room as the fans and the streamers
@@ardantop132na6 It’s ironic how (corporate) Vtubers start off playing a character then over time get more comfortable just being themselves. Whereas with Fleshtubers (say thanks to Brickie for teaching me that term) start off fairly genuinely, but over time lock themselves into a persona if they get too lost in the grind.
The thing which annoys me the most about "Vtuber haters" is just how arrogant most of them are about it. I think we have a big issue in the west nowadays with people being so up their own a$$es that it results in insufferable attitudes around the board, not just around the Vtuber topic. Look at how Adin Ross acts in the clips showcased here. Is this actually the culture we want to cultivate in the west? No wonder more and more people just want to get out of here.
Losers that aren't happy with their lives so they hate on things that make other people happy because I'm their mind, if they're miserable, everyone else should be miserable
They've always existed, vtubers are just an easier target to harass because of the avatar usage. IRL streamers don't get that much harassment because defamation charges can be laid directly I guess. But they get swatted a ton too.
@@dra6o0nand with V-tubers they can't swat them because they cant see their real faces so the haters did those things on IRL streamers they didn't like will hate V-tubers even more
Let’s be honest everyone, she’s just defending this because she is one. They only do this because the number of lonely men is insanely high meaning insanely high profits, everything is fake, including the experience we’re getting, and the only reason this is so popular is because of these factors along with the “cute manipulation” that even animals use. Also that private life stuff is pure BS, there are many entertainers on YT that just make the content WITHOUT needing to show their face! Shocker right, who else didn’t know this was an option? So, everything you said can be shot down, all the evidence of how bad this is cannot be ignored, and I pray to god that everyone that needs to see these fake girls just to function properly gets some REAL help!
I'm glad that any time I've tried to explain VTubers to someone who isn't chronically online, they easily understand it. People are shy or just don't want to show their face but still want to show the emotion in their face. It's how you word it to some people. I don't think some of the people who are against VTubers actually understand why people use avatars. They just go "Eww, weird person.". Even in the idol culture, it is a good thing. For idols, their looks matter most. Once an idol gets to a certain age, they can't work anymore even if they still have the talent and ability to preform. VTubing lets them still do the work they love.
It's fine to not like vtubers, it's not okay to send them harm threats. My message to people who don't understand vtubing, educate yourselves before judging 🤷 Edit: since I'm a kiwi myself, we don't claim Quin69
9:55 That dudes voice just made me cringe so hard. These people are honestly just jealous and hate on things that they don't understand. Especially Ironmouse because she's so successful and they're never going to see the type of success that she has and they hate that someone with an anime avatar is better than them.
tbh Quinn is a Man-child in the worst way. The FFXIV community had a run in with the guy more than once, as she tried playing the game. Bosstet this character and died on a raidboss, becuase he didn't know the fight and blamed it on others then. Save to say he is a cringey guy who is always rage baiting.
They hate V-Tubers because they simply don't understand them and because they refuse to understand them the hate will never cease and you know what that's fine as long as they don't harass them simply because they hate them just mind your own business
Nah I hate them because they’re irritating, their mannerisms annoy me, and I especially hate their fans. However, I also hate most anime and streamers in general so.
@@trulybarr5341But what are you doing here? I mean... You hate Vtubers but you decided to watch video about "Why people hate Vtubers" But i hope you don't turn on the video just to insult Vtubers
Some of us are ancient and remember when people were hating PewDiePie because "why would you want to watch someone else play games", then they moved to hating on the next big thing. that was the first YT meta to his the mainstream outside YT, but even decades earlier different generations and communities have clashed over changes in content meta for TV, movies, music, books, likely all the way back to oral histories. Socrates famously complained that the youth of his day had become infactuated with empty theatre and games, to the detrement of philosophical discussion and the pursuit of knowledge as recreation. To some extent it's the idea that people don't like what they don't understand, to some extent it's that some people have a psychological need to be in the majority due to low confidence that gets damaged if something else is more popular than their preferred content, and to some extent it's the now fairly outdated notion that video content exists in a zero-sum state where their chosen content will cease to be produced once enough people move on to the next thing - or worse that it will be warped to match the new standard of popularity. This latter issue is still present in higher investment media where barriers of entry protect effective monopolies in low interest or narrow market niche, so the mindset won't go anywhere. I don't think the actual problem is any of the ones given. They're excuses and rationalisations, but if VTubers collectively gave up their anonymity and moved closer to content streams currently dominated by fleshtubers..... people would just find new reasons to hate.
Another great video, Rima. I personally never cared for streamers when they took off, but when I saw Kizuna Ai, I thought the idea of an anime girl streamer was genius, even when it was clear that a team brought her to life. Glad you also touched upon the similar reactions to anime, those clips took me back to high school. People see something they don't understand and their immediate reaction is to laugh and mock it, not realizing how unbelievably dumb they make themselves look, and I'm baffled how they can be so confident and equally ignorant. I'm glad that some of them caught themselves and owned up to it, though. A while back someone commented on one of Alana's videos curious about what she was, and I explained what VTubers were. Although he decided the rabbit hole wasn't for him, he wasn't rude about it and appreciated the explanation. Wish a lot more people were like that instead of going "dur hur this is dum".
If you haven't noticed yet, they also hate themselves subconsciously, but can't accept that feeling and lash out. There is a whole psychology behind people's intent and thought process too.
Let’s be honest everyone, she’s just defending this because she is one. They only do this because the number of lonely men is insanely high meaning insanely high profits, everything is fake, including the experience we’re getting, and the only reason this is so popular is because of these factors along with the “cute manipulation” that even animals use. Also that private life stuff is pure BS, there are many entertainers on YT that just make the content WITHOUT needing to show their face! Shocker right, who else didn’t know this was an option? So, everything you said can be shot down, all the evidence of how bad this is cannot be ignored, and I pray to god that everyone that needs to see these fake girls just to function properly gets some REAL help!
@@loganwolverine5849 bro, instead of copying that stupid speech that's not even true you should focus on yourself. you're acting as if streaming with an anime styled character is something bad even though it isn't. Let's face it, just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean it's automatically bad. Most vtubers literally stream for fun, how about you get some help instead? not to mention that most people pay thousands of dollars for their models which means that they all are adults. guessing from that user alone, I can tell that you're about 8, so let me educate you, just because you don't like something doesn't mean that you should hate on it. didn't your parents teach you that?
""All they do is sit there and say thank you for the sub" He says, as he just sits there and thanks his chat for the subs...." It's like they lack enough self-awareness to see the hypocrisy being put on display.
@@shirleymaemattthews4862 that shouldn't be that crazy lol... believe it or not those "physics" happen irl. but i get it if you mean like THOSE vtubers that reaaally exaggerate it
Every time I hear Iron mouse talk about her illness, it hurts. I went through something similar and it was not easy, to say the least. I'm really proud of her.
Man, hearing these reasons brought me back to the late 90s and early 2000s. People said the near exact thing about anime when it left the bootleg tapes found in comic cons and entered tv channels such as WB and Cartoon Network; “it’s super violent pornos,” “it’s full of PDF files,” “the art style is just weird” The more things change, the more they stay the same i guess
Also, shoutout to all the artists snd engineers that are involved in the avatar's creation (known in the medium as papa / mamma). Not all heroes wear capes.
It's absolutely wild to me. If I don't like something, I just don't engage with it. Like why waste so much energy to somehow "prove" that what you like is better, especially to people who shouldn't matter or impact your life - strangers online.
Bigotry allows for people to feel superior to others without actually having to do to any work on themselves. It’s sooo much easier to make yourself feel “better” by pushing others down. Not to mention that streaming is hyper competitive, where sadly the easiest way to get clicks and views is negativity.
@@gurugurumawaru7869not just xqc but also Adin Ross. Atleast Kai Cenat had the guts to do a collab with Ironmouse a few days ago. Also, did Terroriser atleast watched Neuro-sama and then 1 year later, started shitting on vtubers?
So funny story. I had heard the term vtuber back in 2017. Didn’t look into it. I had heard Ironmouse’s name in like 2020/2021 - somewhere around there - but it didn’t sound like my thing and I forgot about it. Then I saw Noah’s video. Still wasn’t interested but it did sound like an asshole thing to do because I had heard Mouse was very sick and can’t physically meet her fans. So I thought Noah’s video was cruel but I never looked into it. Then Connor’s video came out. I knew who CDawg was but hadn’t looked into his content in years. I watched that video and was completely curious. So I went down the vtuber rabbit hole. I don’t find any of it cringe at all. I don’t really use that term because it could be used to describe me and has been and it was hurtful. So I prefer the term unique or “not my cup of tea” over words like that. Just because I feel a certain way about something, it doesn’t make it right or wrong and I don’t have to share every feeling or thought I had about something online. I’d rather wait to learn more than jump in like a nut into lava. Someone gets hurt and that’s not cool. I think vtuber are fascinating. Plus I myself don’t like my appearance so I too would find comfort behind an avatar over myself. Whatever a persons reason for doing vtubing shouldn’t matter. The content I’ve watched has always been satisfying and fun. But I’ve been on the internet since before google existed so I’m old and have seen so many things come and go. I hope vtuber stay. I think they’re beat and different and can make so many changes to UA-cam and twitch.
Comes down to misinformation, grifting, intentionally misleading, & jealousy. Irl streamers are getting upset Vtuber's are getting the things they used to.
There are forces in the media and even hollywood who fears their potential and see them as a threat. Nope not a reach, when there are rich elites, they spend their time thinking about how others sees them and looks at their competition a ton. Narcissistic traits are like that.
I've been a nerd for most of my life, and as such a big fan of anime since I was a teenager, I always enjoyed watching streamers, but nothing could prepare me for just how loveable Vtubing communities could become. I'm a massive Vtuber fan and I honestly have been so happy. I've even been consistently working out and loosing weight because I want to be in better shape to be able to cheer at concerts and keep moving the entire duration.
I think people hate Vtubers because they either don’t understand them or believe in rumors about them. Great video Rima and I hope you have a great night.
I would also like to add the word "Simp," doesn't mean what it originally meant, Now it means giving money to someone for attention, In the old days it was a little more specific than that, it used to mean doing any and everything to get into someone's pants, so by it's original meaning giving your favorite VTuber tons of money doesn't make one a Simp, however doing so with the intent to sleep with them does.
@@zerotimeleft If what I looked up is accurate, not really, as Simping comes more from place of lust and not love, so it's probably not quite the same thing.
The thing that's crazy is how many people's complaints about vtubers... applies to streamers in general and yet seem to act like face streamers are superior. 1. Fake - Yeah, no, all streamers put on a character, even ones trying to be educational. 2. Cringe - Half of why people watch streamers is to see the reactions to them messing up. 3. Lazy - how is a vtuber model any lazier than basically forgetting to turn off your damn web cam?
They just don't understand honestly. I'm really not even into anime and yet I love watching Hololive and many others. Their talent and comedic ability is why I love them. The outside view of the community reminds me of that movie "Gamer" how it portrayed a grossly obese guy as the standard gamer.
Thanks for spreading information and awareness. This is a side of vtubing I (as a rather new fan) didn't know off as much until now. It's frustrating but important to talk about, especially for those who want to start vtubing, like myself and probably many others as well.
When there are fans there will be haters as well. This is either they really hate concept, that person or just really hate you for no reason. Yeah this is just normal now.
The lack of social trust and online manipulation is the online world’s biggest threat, as one’s words can always change how we perceive information, creating this divinity in not just the Vtuber Space, but in the Online World as a whole. I never get into the drama of anything as drama, controversy, and allegations is always a thing with any celebrity, massive trend, or idols, but I just want to give my opinion on this topic. I’ve never been an Anime person to begin with, I’ve never even watched a single Anime in my life in fact, yet I somehow find myself being apart of over 250+ communities in the Vtuber world, connecting with people who have lived different walks of life, having several different disabilities, and personalities. For me, Vtubing is a thing that helps you express yourself without needing to show your physical appearance. I come to Vtuber streams for the person, not the avatar, and that also goes for my non-Vtubers/Face Cam Streamers. If people have a dislike for it, then that’s their opinion, and it’s completely normal, as everyone has their likes and dislikes with everything. This is just my opinion, and I can understand if people who even see this disagree, but sometimes you have to hear the other side of the story or person before basing and making your opinion on a person or subject.
Honestly i hate when people do the fake glitch joke with the vtuber models as my todays tech and such it is literally impossible for that type of glitch to happen ESPECIALLY if you hide your Webcam source from OBS itself so even if your model disappeared your webcam would never show up in the live stream feed
It's because you can be anonymous and therefore harder to predate upon. Also it's the decentralization of being an entertainer. You don't have to go to Hollywood now to have a shot of people throwing money at you if you can entertain them.
Part of it is lack of understanding. Part of it is a rebound effect from liking cartoons/anime and comics/manga. Part is distrust of the inherent falsehood. But A LOT of the heat comes from facecam putzes feeling the popularity of certain vtubers threatens their little internet realm. That sense of threat becomes vitriol, that they distill to their viewer masses (and let's be honest, the crushing majority of them couldn't independently think their way out of a Chinese finger trap - look at the JC Denton avatar spam sparked by MaximilianMus and how long it lasted) to parrot that feeling all over the internet.
@@heistingcrusader_ad3223 Well yes, but actually no. Vtuber is more about the Genre itselft rather than a niche beacuse a niche is quote " a place, employment, status, or activity for which a person or thing is best fitted. finally found her niche." While yes Vtuber can be a Niche, its more of a Genre, a job that is streaming while keeping your identity hidden. Its a objective opinion among people who knows Vtuber culture, While the one people that didnt know see it as something of a weird niche.
the hate stems from what truly unties us all: Xenophobia people don't know what VTubers are, aren't willing to give them a chance and due to the current internet culture feel like they have to justify it to themselves and rest of the internet by being hateful, while the others are just looking for something to hate or lash out against and VTubers are an easy target
This is a perfect video to explain the overall phenomenon that is Vtubers, ALOT of haters are just uninformed normies or ppl that can't just call something "cringe" and move on with their lives.
There are some people who may not understand vtubers but there is also the possibility that the vtubers haters who bring negativity are those who have sad miserable lives and try and make themselves feel better by bringing hate over something they dislike or dont understand and its quite sad and pathetic to see those types of individuals act like this
There are instances where a Fan Donates huge amounts in the Past, ONLY to be BANNED by Moderators or by the Streamer themselves like a replacable number of views Then Question yourself, Why do people hate Vtubers?
"Cartoons are for kids. Not like anime which weird and gross cartoon " So nobody talks about Family Guys, or South Park? Edit: Bruh, I'm saying is that many people think that cartoon are for kids yet they are some entertaining purpose in +18 or dark humor while they are criticizing the anime side. EIther misunderstanding or hypocrisy.
The difference is that Peter Griffin doesn't pretend to be sick to beg for donations and the South Park boys as edgy as their humor is don't constantly glorify satanism.
This is a disgusting comment. You don't mention Ironmouse's name but it's pretty obvious who you mean. I will respond to the accusation that Ironmouse is faking it the same way I respond to the accusation that she is a man. VShojo would definitely know if she was faking her illness and refuse.to support her. CDawgVA also has first hand knowledge of her illness. So now you're talking in terms of conspiracy theories with dozens of people that would have to be involved. I'll acknowledge that Ironmouse does refer to herself as Satan, and if you wish to criticize that - constructively - I'm willing to discuss it. But I don't think she can seriously be referred to as Satanic. She describes her parents as devout Christians and I assume she is as well, in the absence of evidence to the contrary. It's just an act. Don't confuse fiction with reality.
Hello from the virtual space! I have met friends in VRChat who have been better to me than most IRL connections I've ever made. I cried tears of joy on my 30th birthday thinking I would spend that day being all alone. Instead, I had DJ friends perform for me and was surrounded by close to 100 people who joined the instance just to see me and hang out together. The catharsis I felt that night cannot be described in words... Be it Vtubers or any other form of communication that is deemed "unusual" to the regular Joe, they are valid if they make you happy. Live a long and healthy life and ignore the nay-sayers. They are just jealous that you found fulfillment before them and on much simpler terms.
I think I remember 1 instance where I understand why people hate Vtubers. You can call me YT comment section enjoyer. As such on Matsuri's stream back in the day when her chat tried to break her bank by donating so much during an Apex stream, someone stood out to me. He wrote along the lines of I am an engineer. I spent years of years and lots of blood and tears just to earn what this girl made in 2 hours where I worked for few years. What is all my stuggle for? Then I understood why there are some people that hate vtubers. Someone's success is too blinding regardless if its a vtuber or not. Anybody suceeding will earn hate to those that struggled to reach the same success or failed to succeed.
As someone who's not so much into vtubers, I don't hate vtubers, but i do think the parasocial relationships are terrible, some fans... the things lonely men online will say and do for "their" "waifus" is disturbing. It's okay to watch vtubers or any online celebrity, it's okay to enjoy their content, and interact with them, but don't forget they're performing an entertainment service, acting as a character, and that's all, they don't know you and likely don't care about you.
I usually just say something on the lines of "It is not for me / it's not my thing" to things I don't enjoy or understand. Very rarely feel the need to ridicule something. Growing up my mom always thought me that "there will be people liking things I don't like, and hating on things that I like". Everything has their fans and haters. I just wish more people understands this. Most of the criticisms towards vtubers in this video just comes off as ignorant, and baiting for attention that just isn't worth it.
They are just jealous. I don't care if they use virtual avatar or real appearance, if they make good contents, I watch. It's an easy pick, I'd rather watch people who spread fun instead of hate.
No, but They are Also Betrayed, They Donated money only to be Banned by Moderators, and shift thier beliefs that Vtubers are Truly Fake, and all people should avoid.
About Content, I personally think it's ALL Garbage, because it's just Markiplier on a Virtual Model on Twitch. 6 Hour Unedited Videos called VoDs, Fundamentally and Objectively A WASTE OF TIME
@@VTClapsHoKA waste of time is when you watch a video and get nothing. You didn't laugh, didn't cry, didn't feel sad, didn't think, didn't get angry. You were just bored
I think the loudest hate for niche things always comes from those with the shallowist mind set, the type that will say they have a like for something 'mainstream' like a sport but not actually be able to tell you much about it and, also not be able to comprehend why someone else might not like that thing. Which therefore makes other interests or even a deep passion for a mainstream interest weird to them.
People hate vtubers for the same reason they hate anime. Most anime’s are thirst traps, overly cringy, and over the top, while the anime’s that are serious, really good, and taking themselves serious get overshadowed because they are the less common type. It’s the same with vtubers
I once hated vtubers a lot, and now they are my favorite content and I like them a lot. I just hope that the hatred towards vtubers dissipates over time, and we must remember that vtubing is a content creation format, so if a Vtuber does something bad or something that does not please everyone, not all vtubers should be criticized for the mistake of 1. There are vtubers of all types, choose the ones you like the most. And another thing, in this community if you search well you can find a lot of talent and charisma and you can also connect with the humanity of the person who gives life to the avatar, as in the case of Ironmouse, a Vtuber that I respect a lot.
First, you're not American. Now you're a male, what's next, your accent is fake! Jokes aside, thank you for all your hard work finding the information putting all in a fun and interesting video. Love your accent and all the rima-isms you have.
as someone who’s been in the fandom since covid lockdown, let me be devil’s advocate: the vtubing fandom is the undertale fandom all over again, and i mean that in a bad way. don’t get me wrong, the vtuber fanbase has genuinely chill and talented creators and fans, but if i’m being generous, they make up 30-40% of the fanbase. for the other 60-70%… jesus christ, where do i begin. if i have to recommend a good “response” video, it’s foxakimbo’s “world of unhinged vtubers” video.
A lot of vtubers, especially corpos, are just playing characters. They are essentially actors playing a role. Voice changers or no (usually not), male female doesn't matter since they are ACTORS. Indies are a little different, but ultimately they are just people trying to make a connection to other people. Can it earn the money? Sometimes. But usually it doesn't seem to be mainly for that.
The thing that infuriates me about all the hate for fandom is that everyone is a fan of something. Guys will make complete fools of themselves over a football team, but call convention goers "cringe". Like painting yourself orange and blue isn't cringe. VTubing makes the parasocial relationship obvious, but all fandom is parasocial. If you are a fan of Star Wars, you have a parasocial relationship. If you like cosplay, you have a parasocial relationship. If you like a rock singer, you have a parasocial relationship. You can fool yourself into thinking it's something more, because the actor or the singer or the celebrity is a real person, but you don't really have a relationship with that person, you have a relationship with the person they are pretending to BE. And you are no different than the thousands of people who also have that relationship with them. It is actually dangerous to believe that you, uniquely, have a relationship with that person that is unique and requires some sort of commitment from them. With VTubers that is obvious because the avatar isn't real. It's a 2D or 3D model..and it invariably has a backstory that is fictional. The kayfabe is important to VTubing because it draws a well defined line between the talent and the character that you are a fan of. You can respect Ironmouse, the VA, for her determination to overcome her illness and empathize with her loneliness, but you know that she's not a pink haired Queen of the Underworld. In Japan, the corporate VTuber characters are not even owned by the talent. And there are still fans who don't know how to draw that line between fiction and reality. But it's important to keep in mind. As for VTubers all being men posing as women, that just isn't possible with corporate VTubers. The company would clearly know their true identity. And VTubers like Ironmouse have friends that have met them in real life. It should be easy enough to tell if they are really female or obscuring their true gender. i'm not saying that there aren't male VAs that perform female VTubers, but it's not for deceptive purposes and if there's any uncertainty you can usually tell. It's easier to just mind your own damn business.
I find a good chunk of Vtuber channels are just lazy low effort reaction content. The most effort they put into the content is getting ahold of their model and setting the motion capture rigging. Beyond that, they just plaster their model over folks with actual talent and creativity's content and throw in the occasional exaggerated reaction.
25:15 Ironically, the Loony Toons clip you show, was originally made for movie theaters with adults as the viewer target and never intended to be viewed by children.
I wwould say part of the disdain is due to the lack of authenticity. Theres a wall between performer and audience thats thicker than usual caused by the use of avatars. While this isnt a huge deal breaker i can see where some of the criticism comes from. That dragon waifu Zen is my go to example since the use of text to speech is a clear inclination that its a man behind the png. And likely an ugly one at that.
Thank you for this video, Lady Rima! It was very detailed and informative. In terms of my thoughts on why Vtubers are hated...Mostly it's because of the denial of acknowledgement, like it's there but don't want to know more because it's something out of range. But please let me say it here and now...Virtual creators are real people too, just using something else that's not their face as a sign of representation and majority of the time, privacy. Sometimes, I want to make content for my fans but they have to know that I'm not sitting down uploading every single day(only then you may call me a sort of robot 🤖), but I have my own personal things to worry about in life just like everyone else. Guess that's one thing about not having a schedule. Make whatever, whenever. I started to do Vtubing after watching Hololive and wanted to use my skills of acting and performance back in my younger and soldier days before they rot away completely because things that are not used, you lose. So, I wrote lore for myself and the personality I want to portray. Takes a lot of time, but all worth it. I remember one time when my brother told me that he doesn't understand what a Hatsune Miku is when he was watching stuff on his phone, to which I repled "She is a famous Vocaloid singer that sings and goes on tour using a hologram with a voice created by samples from an actress." but he still doesn't get it. So I think that the lesson at the end of the day is "Like what you want to like, just don't mock them if you view it as something out of your knowledge."
It's what does anime in some circles is still considered incredibly cringe-worthy, the idea of a female streamer LARPing as an anime character gives some people the ick.
ngl i'm suffering hard to a meme in the Zenless Zone Zero community about a fox-girl character that's an image zoomed in on her ears with the caption "hey! my eyes are down here" when I look at your avatar. I don't know if that's good or bad so, make of that what you will
The old ghandi saying goes first they ignore ya, then they mock ya, then they fight you, then you win. Looks like britney venti is angry because it seems like its taking away attention from her. Different niches different audiences. Dont hate cause you dont understand the culture.
Fun chat in the live view and great points in the video. It is very sad many live face streamers shit on vtubers for being men or being cringe or faking everything or being too happy.
Well its because people dont realize how diverse vtubers are. Some are artists, musicians, pro gamers, some are amazing speakers, others are great at commentary. And some are diverse diverse enough to be sble to do modt things for thier fans.
Tbh, I’ll always prefer vtubers over irl streamers bc they’re more relatable in my opinion, some of the vtubers I watch like most of the stuff I like, for example, Trickywi loves Godzilla
People tend to care too much about the visual issues instead of the internal issues. If anything is disapproved and abstained from by me it is only on a moral standard. If Vtubers are doing things to a moral clarity, it isn’t the issue here then. Regardless of how Vtubers may act, they are individuals and have the free will to do their own decisions and beliefs even if its in a virtual manner. It’s all still open for Vtubers to have many different ways of expressing beliefs. I’ve seen vtubers who go against the grain in majority beliefs and trends with the vtuber community. A couple you may know, one of which I’m a huge fan of. They weren’t even featured on the rewards stream to my knowledge but they still carried the joy and expression of what they love and believe. They can do whatever they choose. So in a summary I don’t disapprove of Vtubing itself, but it is important to take care of peoples well being and expressing moral standards. I have issues with people actually having objectively morally disgusting beliefs. Regardless of who they are. An individual being discreet and virtual isn’t any reason to hate them especially since they have more value in the personal attributes. The people hating vtubers seem to have issues with their hearts themselves and have more morally corrupt behavior.
People need to show more respect to Vtubers, their nothing to Scoff at. As a Vtuber myself (not the anime style tho) i love Vtubing, it’s fun. Not all of us feel comfortable showing our real faces. Heck, i don’t mind showing my face, but i prefer using a Vtuber because…A: i have a stoic and reserved demeanor, so I’m not very expressive. B: i don’t wanna deal with making myself look presentable, heck…i don’t even wear makeup. And C: safety, i prefer my Online Persona be separate from my IRL self. Vtubing is fun…simple as that.
Show them Respect? There are instances where a Fan Donates huge amounts in the Past only to be BANNED by Moderators or by the Streamer themselves like a replacable number of views Do you think we show them Respect? R"terd?
@@VTClapsHoK Excuse me. But when does donating huge amoutns of money in the past give the fan entitlement and free range to do whatever they want? If they got banned there had to be a reason, and more than once it is because they think they are all smart and can get away with any insane remark or misbehavior
@@lsebastian9086 Excuse me, have you even explored Reddit, Discord, and Twitch? If the Rules of Avoid @pinging and Posting Memes on Main Chat gets users Ban wasn't UNNECESSARY Enough. Joking about politics ONCE results as an Instant Ban without Acknowledging the Massive Donation, this literally an Exploitation of Viewers. These Streamers look Insufferable doing this while having Better Income than a Highschool Teacher, that's already FUp
Back to Kirsche real quick, she's the only one doing legitimate journalistic work exposing every instance of dei's constant rebranding and obfuscation, and very very few bigger, more popular streamers take her seriously because she's a vtuber, the discrimination is very real
True. It must be difficult for her as a right leaning Vtuber, because obviously most conservatives are old dude's who hate anime and stuff alike and are going to write her off for simply that.
If these 'reviewers' have no interest in understanding Anime, then why are they dumb enough to even make a review. People who are quick to judge with no actual interest in understanding the subject should really mind their own damn business.
not enough are willing to talk about one of the most basic reasons: some people just simply don't like it, and the hating/mocking of it is heavily accelerated by online spaces
Why do you think people hate Vtubers?
I just think it’s because of weeb culture being seen as weird and cringe.
Think about it: If you’re not into anime stuff at all and you start seeing an anime girl streamer that gets tons of donations/superchats from people that actually watch them, you’re gonna think they’re really weird for giving money away to an anime girl.
They don't understand what VTuber is.
Also More like Jealousy and Envy or Just Petty.
I think it is just a a cultural clash really, because your dealing with people anonymity and trust. A example when I first came in and ironmouse was getting popular and people were doubting it I saw people auto attack them like a defensive mechanism and it worked at first because they were not that many. But now look at how many are coming in to the space and I first noticed these I said In videos people need to chill and explain because there will be a point were your going to attack someone who is big in the real world that will have consequences to those actions. A example of these even look at nuxtaku he is not that big or look at hololive and china it can get real crazy with companies and governments stepping in.
They Hate what they dont understand, espacialy if what they dont understand is succesfull
I've heard the argument of people thinking that V-Tubers are "cheating" due to this idea of not grinding the same that previous "UA-camrs" had to do in the past with viewership and subscriptions.
I think the hate can be summed up with the following:
Lack of understanding
Cultural clash
Jealousy
It’s anime adjacent
Weeb culture
A possible link to furries
They don’t think VTubers are actual people
you forgot hating on furries
We should also precise, for them anything related to "weeb" is equal = Pedobear allegations.
And any female vtuber that don't have any issues is certainly a reddit moderator that act as a woman with voice modifications.
I doubt hating on furries is a general thing, they are in a protective bubble like the woke crowd, in regards to gender politics and identity politics.
It's the more conservative types of thinkers who are targeted, these types don't care about your stance so long as you aren't forcing them to participate or messing with their communities or environment.
The internet is filled with tourists and people who shouldn't be here. Suddenly I understand why we should regulate the border.
@@frostygoul2229 To be fair furries have some of the worst takes so it makes it easy to hate on them, like how can a furry say liking loli/shota is weird when they are a furry? it's not even arguably more weird as it is definitely more weird. But it's not all furries that do it just a loud minority as the good ones are minding their own business while the bad ones are making them all look bad
Crazy thing about cartoons? Initially, they were NOT for kids. Their purpose was to entertain the adults in the audience before the start of the movie. THEY WERE ALWAYS FOR ADULTS THIS WHOLE TIME MUAHUAHUAHUAHUA!!!!!!!!!!!!
And anyone that doesn't believe that can simply check the old, OLD cartoons. Early Disney, Walter Lantz, Hanna-Barbera and so on. Disney especially made entire episodes CENTERED around subjects that UA-cam will shadowban you for trying to mention directly.
It's basically because adults were gaslighting kids way before gaslighting was a thing.
It’s kinda funny that those people who says Animation is for kids have to find a reasonable argument (which they never will) on how CGI is for kids.
And actually the "old boomer" more tolerant to vtubers. They still found it weird, but not hating it like the zoomers doing
@@tsuaririndoku They've been saying that for over 30 years
People just love to hate on what they dont understand
Indeed, but the
"Don't Attribute To Malice" crowd always exists in every population.
Nah, You shouldn't generalize.. I believe some of them must have reasons.
it's valid though
People also hate those that rejects their existence too.
Especially if their actions generated a lot of backlash from the public. Something no one talks about is generational radicalization.
Textbook Xenophobia
The Vtuber hate is a weird one. Some people say its cringe, weird, weebs, ect. Its out of the ordinary tbh and also real people do the same stuff. I see vtubers as wanting to have a private life, safety, while being able to express themselves online, they like the anime culture, etc. Parasocial phenomenon has also caused problems for all content creators vtuber or not. Plenty of people have been stalked.
The same attitude applies to anime and manga enjoyers not so long ago
They're just streamers who use an avatar to protect their identity. That's all. Because of its origins (Japan), it is steeped in idol and otaku culture. Some aspects of that culture are bad, some are good. The haters don't care either way. They'll justify their hatred any way they can. What bugs them is that it's different. They hate different.
Let’s be honest everyone, she’s just defending this because she is one.
They only do this because the number of lonely men is insanely high meaning insanely high profits, everything is fake, including the experience we’re getting, and the only reason this is so popular is because of these factors along with the “cute manipulation” that even animals use.
Also that private life stuff is pure BS, there are many entertainers on YT that just make the content WITHOUT needing to show their face! Shocker right, who else didn’t know this was an option? So, everything you said can be shot down, all the evidence of how bad this is cannot be ignored, and I pray to god that everyone that needs to see these fake girls just to function properly gets some REAL help!
@@loganwolverine5849 Right! And people will believe in someone engaged in Polemics... 🤷
@@loganwolverine5849 yeah there are streamers who make content without showing a face but a lot of them use something to identify themselves some kid of image to represent them how is using a 2d or 3 model any different its just a higher tech way of doing that. Quit being an asshole and judging people for something you don't like/understand. And if you hate vtubers why do you keep watching Rima's videos we can see you comment history is it just to spread hate? Get a life
As a former normie, I assumed they were all e-girls playing a character. As a wrestling fan, only the latter is true.
Comparing vTubers to Wrestlers is my go-to explanation of vTubers to normies. They seem to understand this quicker when you tell them "their gimmick is white fox talking about politics" or "astronaut cat playing rts games".
They can be voice actresses, or even "cam girls" all walks of life chooses something that suits them over their old life.
I never thought of it like that. That's such a perfect comparison
@@FakeXero I think of vTubing as digital puppetry. The avatars are puppets controlled and voiced by the vTuber/puppeteer.
Wrestling is a form of theater, and vtubing is highly theatrical, especially at the professional level. I grew up with wrestling as a kid, so it was easy to grasp the culture surrounding it.
It is a new thing, hate is inevitable, same thing happened with rock n roll, television, even radios, nothing new, history is just rhyming
Hatred resonates the most with the population's happiness index. The people who are worst off are far more likely to lash out.
Video games is still being hated 40 years later and it’s not even new anymore
@@therealjaystone2344 Well some of the hate for videogames is justified now. I'm talking about micro transactions, unfinished games, always online even in single player, NFT crypto games.
@@dra6o0n That is true, I hate them, Rationally can understand that my issues stem from myself but I loathe these fake ass, insentience, titty bouncing, giddy personas.
I've got too parasocial before and ruined my life which is my fault, completely my accountability but illogical part of me wants to seek outer reasons for the struggles in my life which I am 100% responsible for.
Honestly, I just wish I there was an option mass hide this phenomena, I try do not recommend this stuff every time I see it pop up, but the algorithms work against me, I suppose my case is a bit different from most, but that is to say, people can have many more reasons to hate something than what appears on the surface.
P.S. I should prolly find a therapist but oh well.
The thing is, the streamers that get the most mad are generally the ones who are sitting there talking crap about random topics and videos in exactly the same way as Vtubers. They refuse to see that it's the exact same thing that they're doing either because they just see animé and turn off, or because they just want to farm hatred. It's also exactly the same hatred and lack of understanding that streaming in general went through as it became more mainstream, so I don't expect it to halt the niche's popularity at all.
They feel their corner of the internet, that they've monopolised, being threatened.
They stream to make a living, some vtubers stream to entertain, they are not the same.
@dra6o0n In what way are they different? IRL or Vtuber, they're streaming to entertain an audience and make their living through ads, sponsorships, and audience donations. Both are doing it for money and community, and we shouldn't assume either to be wrong. It's only when an individual starts pushing hate or abusing their audience that we should be questioning their motives.
@@dannywatson4253 One has profit as a form of motivation, the other socialization as their motivation. Why do you think talents overwhelm themselves with numerous projects when the fans never asked them to?
They like the attention but also to get to know their fans, to the point where they do multiple projects for the sake of making them happy. But simply being healthy and enjoying their time is what all fans would easily want.
@@dra6o0n But that's not exclusive to either category of streamer. Nor are the motivations mutually exclusive. If there is any dichotomy at all, its that vtubers are more associated with women, and fleshtubers are more associated men. Men and Women each have different advantages in certain types of grifts; as does facetubing and vtubing. For example- Product and Investment grifts require an illusion of legitimacy; hence Guy Streamers, Reviewers and Essayists are the ones best suited to pushing it. Brand grifts require parasocial exploitation; hence Anime girls, Tiddystreamers, and Gaming personalities have stronger sway.
All that said, I've seen incidents of all sides having fair share of controversy, criminal investigations, and disconnects from reality. Crappy people are attracted to attention and money.... and internet based audiences offer ample opportunity for both, but with much lower risk and initial investment compared to other media. The expo'se category of journalist and/or content creators is especially prone to hypocrisy; as audiences see legitimacy and scrutiny as opposite ends of a spectrum. Yet the space is just as filled with plagiarism, criminals and audience manipulation as a lot of other adjacent genres.
I've lost track of the number times an online personality that was considered trusted and critical, end up having their audiences turn against them due to their previously unknown opinions on something being exposed, revealed to have had a long term lack of due diligence, or just straight up horrible individuals pretending to be "a people".
At first I thought Vtubers were just people playing games or doing "just chatting" streams with an avatar, so I wasn't super interested, but when I finally got into watching the Holostars EN boys, I was blown away by how creative and multi-talented these people are. Multilingual, playing instruments, singing, comedy, art, etc. Vtubing is a medium that lets them share all that with the world, and if they don't want to show their IRL face or just enjoy having a cool avatar, then more power to them.
Let’s be honest everyone, she’s just defending this because she is one.
They only do this because the number of lonely men is insanely high meaning insanely high profits, everything is fake, including the experience we’re getting, and the only reason this is so popular is because of these factors along with the “cute manipulation” that even animals use.
Also that private life stuff is pure BS, there are many entertainers on YT that just make the content WITHOUT needing to show their face! Shocker right, who else didn’t know this was an option? So, everything you said can be shot down, all the evidence of how bad this is cannot be ignored, and I pray to god that everyone that needs to see these fake girls just to function properly gets some REAL help!
Yeah, and those talents create envy and jealousy
@@loganwolverine5849 I read your whole comment and I can tell you've never even watched a vtuber once, and on top of that you didn't even (properly) read the comment you're responding to (for one thing, it said they watch the male vtubers). You're also assuming that all the fans "need to see these girls just to function", dude it's just entertainment and fun, not an addictive drug. If you hate vtubers then you must also hate muppets.
I just looked around and it looks like you c&p this same comment in reply to many posts, so no you didn't read the post at all and you are just spreading your ignorant pre-written reply all over the place while believing you must obviously know better than anyone else here. Bet you barely even watched the video.
I like how you brought up the sentiment that "Animation is for babies". It's a very western idea, where cartoons are either explicitly targeted towards children, or they are satirical, unserious works for brain-off entertainment (Family Guy, American Dad, The Simpsons, etc). The paradigm is shifting lately, albeit slowly.
If you think Family guy, American Dad, The Simpsons, etc are for brain off entertainment that means you are shutting YOUR brain off before watching. All these shows make major political statements, and also societal statements masked in humor. They are far from brain off entertainment.
@@caledric oh yeah, but that's how people in the USA (aka what they call "The West") tends to view animation as.
@@Artista_Frustrado Then they should compare that kind of shows to stuff like, say, Ren & Stimpy or Beavis and Butthead. I'd say all the series mentioned before are very different than either one of those two. I could see people showing especially The Simpsons to their kids but I'm not sure how many would let them watch Ren & Stimpy.
@@ZnakerFIN why are you backseating Me on how other people are being idiots?
In my country, many of our elders believe cartoons are for kids, I am an Asian
10:15 I tried to explain that point to my own mother about Ironmouse's voice. I keep myself educated on medicine and the human body as a hobby, and also out of concerns for my own health. Her response was essentially "I know better than you, and that isn’t how that works."
Because yes, you who knows absolutely nothing about this industry, this person, and about the human body would know so much more than me who knows all those things.
Typical hater attitude.
Because you're a child! Listen to you elders!
For me it’s gotten to the point where I can’t even be frustrated at it, all I can do is laugh at those types of people. Nothing is funnier than watching people who very clearly have no idea what they are talking about trying to claim that they know better than you. Anytime someone tries doing that to me I just openly laugh at them, because they already don’t take me seriously, so why should I? You get used to morons who think they know more than they actually do far quicker than you would like, unfortunately.
@@Subject_GR33N It has always been a thing for those who hold hobbies that seem hard to grasp at first. Now it's vtubers, back then it was anything geek related. Comic books, PC games, Tabletop and D&D, list goes on. The only small mercy back in the day was that you didn't have influencers going around exploiting their targets for global clout.
@@theploot8230 don't know about that one
@@Subject_GR33N Good take. Witnessing Dunning-Kruger at work should be a source of comedy.
It’s honestly pretty sad how Vtubing has been treated this year (and earlier years as well).
First Selen gets terminated from Nijisanji and everything goes to more shit, Twitch starts suspending Vtubers because they show too much skin despite tub streamers being *right* *there* and they’re completely fine, people have thrown shade at Ironmouse in the past for winning awards and since she became the #1 streamer of Twitch for a bit, she’s only gotten MORE shade.
It’s just sad. It’s a niche thing that really only took off 4 years ago, and I think we’re at the lowest point right now.
Probably, it's not new enough to be interesting because of that, it's not small enough to be a comfy niche. It's just that annoying middle size where the initial interest has died down, so it's not growing a lot. But at the same time it's known enough to have new people come in, unfortunately quite a few of those have decided to act like complete buffoons
I disagree with this.
Yes, I understand that a lot of negativity happened in the Vtubing space this year, especially the circumstances surrounding Selen and how Twitch treated streamers using Vtuber models. However, despite all that, Vtubing is quite far from the "lowest" point.
Answer: Our cringe (Vtuber) is more genuine than their cringe (Streamer).
Behind the mask, humans show their true self. VTubers are indeed more genuine than most normie streamers.
@VydijaRuksana It is because those types of people are always looking for someone to burn at the stake. But it rarely works, see Mori Calliope, they tried very hard to cancel the pink woman but they always failed.
And it shows how insane they are for even going after and targeting VTubers since most VTubers are pretty left leaning anyway, but for the crazies it is never enough.
honestly a lot of the bad actors around this sorta stuff all give off clear "ive never been hit or confronted for my negative actions" vibes. there is 0% chance they would so loudly voice their negative opinions if they actually where in the same room as the fans and the streamers
The irony of them "calling" out Vtubers being fake when they themselves hid their true nature behind the screen despite showing their face.
@@ardantop132na6
It’s ironic how (corporate) Vtubers start off playing a character then over time get more comfortable just being themselves. Whereas with Fleshtubers (say thanks to Brickie for teaching me that term) start off fairly genuinely, but over time lock themselves into a persona if they get too lost in the grind.
The thing which annoys me the most about "Vtuber haters" is just how arrogant most of them are about it.
I think we have a big issue in the west nowadays with people being so up their own a$$es that it results in insufferable attitudes around the board, not just around the Vtuber topic.
Look at how Adin Ross acts in the clips showcased here. Is this actually the culture we want to cultivate in the west? No wonder more and more people just want to get out of here.
Losers that aren't happy with their lives so they hate on things that make other people happy because I'm their mind, if they're miserable, everyone else should be miserable
If only it hadn't become a buzzword, the word 'chuds' would perfectly apply.
They've always existed, vtubers are just an easier target to harass because of the avatar usage.
IRL streamers don't get that much harassment because defamation charges can be laid directly I guess. But they get swatted a ton too.
@@dra6o0nand with V-tubers they can't swat them because they cant see their real faces so the haters did those things on IRL streamers they didn't like will hate V-tubers even more
Let’s be honest everyone, she’s just defending this because she is one.
They only do this because the number of lonely men is insanely high meaning insanely high profits, everything is fake, including the experience we’re getting, and the only reason this is so popular is because of these factors along with the “cute manipulation” that even animals use.
Also that private life stuff is pure BS, there are many entertainers on YT that just make the content WITHOUT needing to show their face! Shocker right, who else didn’t know this was an option? So, everything you said can be shot down, all the evidence of how bad this is cannot be ignored, and I pray to god that everyone that needs to see these fake girls just to function properly gets some REAL help!
@@loganwolverine5849 i've seen you copy-pasting this exact same comment 2 times, and that's enough for me to disregard your opinion entirely (:
I'm glad that any time I've tried to explain VTubers to someone who isn't chronically online, they easily understand it. People are shy or just don't want to show their face but still want to show the emotion in their face. It's how you word it to some people. I don't think some of the people who are against VTubers actually understand why people use avatars. They just go "Eww, weird person.".
Even in the idol culture, it is a good thing. For idols, their looks matter most. Once an idol gets to a certain age, they can't work anymore even if they still have the talent and ability to preform. VTubing lets them still do the work they love.
V-tubers to me are like puppetry.
I like a good puppet performance.
Ya, that the model is basically being puppeted in real time is a major part of what makes it special.
That's how I see it too.
Same, good description
It's fine to not like vtubers, it's not okay to send them harm threats. My message to people who don't understand vtubing, educate yourselves before judging 🤷
Edit: since I'm a kiwi myself, we don't claim Quin69
I agreed. I not a fan, but I don't target them, I go on with my day.
Cringing at vtubers is proof you're still too weak. We all need to work our cringe tolerance. That is the magic of this community.
9:55 That dudes voice just made me cringe so hard.
These people are honestly just jealous and hate on things that they don't understand. Especially Ironmouse because she's so successful and they're never going to see the type of success that she has and they hate that someone with an anime avatar is better than them.
tbh Quinn is a Man-child in the worst way. The FFXIV community had a run in with the guy more than once, as she tried playing the game. Bosstet this character and died on a raidboss, becuase he didn't know the fight and blamed it on others then.
Save to say he is a cringey guy who is always rage baiting.
Our fearless leader is almost here!
Wheeeee!
They hate V-Tubers because they simply don't understand them and because they refuse to understand them the hate will never cease and you know what that's fine as long as they don't harass them simply because they hate them just mind your own business
You only hate what you fear, and you don't understand what you feae.
Nah I hate them because they’re irritating, their mannerisms annoy me, and I especially hate their fans.
However, I also hate most anime and streamers in general so.
@trulybarr5341 You just hate yourself.
@@trulybarr5341But what are you doing here? I mean... You hate Vtubers but you decided to watch video about "Why people hate Vtubers"
But i hope you don't turn on the video just to insult Vtubers
@@trulybarr5341 i love them
Some of us are ancient and remember when people were hating PewDiePie because "why would you want to watch someone else play games", then they moved to hating on the next big thing. that was the first YT meta to his the mainstream outside YT, but even decades earlier different generations and communities have clashed over changes in content meta for TV, movies, music, books, likely all the way back to oral histories. Socrates famously complained that the youth of his day had become infactuated with empty theatre and games, to the detrement of philosophical discussion and the pursuit of knowledge as recreation.
To some extent it's the idea that people don't like what they don't understand, to some extent it's that some people have a psychological need to be in the majority due to low confidence that gets damaged if something else is more popular than their preferred content, and to some extent it's the now fairly outdated notion that video content exists in a zero-sum state where their chosen content will cease to be produced once enough people move on to the next thing - or worse that it will be warped to match the new standard of popularity. This latter issue is still present in higher investment media where barriers of entry protect effective monopolies in low interest or narrow market niche, so the mindset won't go anywhere.
I don't think the actual problem is any of the ones given. They're excuses and rationalisations, but if VTubers collectively gave up their anonymity and moved closer to content streams currently dominated by fleshtubers..... people would just find new reasons to hate.
Another great video, Rima. I personally never cared for streamers when they took off, but when I saw Kizuna Ai, I thought the idea of an anime girl streamer was genius, even when it was clear that a team brought her to life. Glad you also touched upon the similar reactions to anime, those clips took me back to high school. People see something they don't understand and their immediate reaction is to laugh and mock it, not realizing how unbelievably dumb they make themselves look, and I'm baffled how they can be so confident and equally ignorant. I'm glad that some of them caught themselves and owned up to it, though.
A while back someone commented on one of Alana's videos curious about what she was, and I explained what VTubers were. Although he decided the rabbit hole wasn't for him, he wasn't rude about it and appreciated the explanation. Wish a lot more people were like that instead of going "dur hur this is dum".
from what im seeing from the Title and the Thumbnail, they are not just hating Vtubers but they are hating actual ppl at the same time.
If you haven't noticed yet, they also hate themselves subconsciously, but can't accept that feeling and lash out.
There is a whole psychology behind people's intent and thought process too.
sadly,may be tru
Let’s be honest everyone, she’s just defending this because she is one.
They only do this because the number of lonely men is insanely high meaning insanely high profits, everything is fake, including the experience we’re getting, and the only reason this is so popular is because of these factors along with the “cute manipulation” that even animals use.
Also that private life stuff is pure BS, there are many entertainers on YT that just make the content WITHOUT needing to show their face! Shocker right, who else didn’t know this was an option? So, everything you said can be shot down, all the evidence of how bad this is cannot be ignored, and I pray to god that everyone that needs to see these fake girls just to function properly gets some REAL help!
@@loganwolverine5849 bro, instead of copying that stupid speech that's not even true you should focus on yourself. you're acting as if streaming with an anime styled character is something bad even though it isn't. Let's face it, just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean it's automatically bad. Most vtubers literally stream for fun, how about you get some help instead? not to mention that most people pay thousands of dollars for their models which means that they all are adults. guessing from that user alone, I can tell that you're about 8, so let me educate you, just because you don't like something doesn't mean that you should hate on it. didn't your parents teach you that?
"All they do is sit there and say thank you for the sub" He says, as he just sits there and thanks his chat for the subs....
EXACTLY MY THOUGHT
""All they do is sit there and say thank you for the sub" He says, as he just sits there and thanks his chat for the subs...."
It's like they lack enough self-awareness to see the hypocrisy being put on display.
I mean, to a degree, all streamers just sit there and thank people for donations. There's a spectrum, but I hope you see what I'm getting at
@@MucepheisBustyBust True, It's just funny when they complain about something they themselves are doing.
The hate what they don’t understand
The thing I don't understand is why the immense "physics" on most vtubers' breasts, WHY?
@@shirleymaemattthews4862 that shouldn't be that crazy lol... believe it or not those "physics" happen irl. but i get it if you mean like THOSE vtubers that reaaally exaggerate it
Every time I hear Iron mouse talk about her illness, it hurts. I went through something similar and it was not easy, to say the least. I'm really proud of her.
That scared the hell out of me. I thought there was some kind of beef between Gura and Ironmouse.
Thumbnail jumpscare.
Oh ho ho! That's the power of thumbnails to ye mate!
That would be... an odd beef.
Man, hearing these reasons brought me back to the late 90s and early 2000s. People said the near exact thing about anime when it left the bootleg tapes found in comic cons and entered tv channels such as WB and Cartoon Network; “it’s super violent pornos,” “it’s full of PDF files,” “the art style is just weird”
The more things change, the more they stay the same i guess
You can't be mad at Gura... She cute.
Page 203:Shark is Shark
Based
our shark is precious 😢
PEDOPHILE DETECTED!!!
Calling police now! 👮♂️
For real
Also, shoutout to all the artists snd engineers that are involved in the avatar's creation (known in the medium as papa / mamma).
Not all heroes wear capes.
It's absolutely wild to me. If I don't like something, I just don't engage with it. Like why waste so much energy to somehow "prove" that what you like is better, especially to people who shouldn't matter or impact your life - strangers online.
Bigotry allows for people to feel superior to others without actually having to do to any work on themselves. It’s sooo much easier to make yourself feel “better” by pushing others down.
Not to mention that streaming is hyper competitive, where sadly the easiest way to get clicks and views is negativity.
I honestly had no idea who Kai Cenat was before all this 🙄 beyond, like, a known name on the internet.
Man, Kai and Case-Oh were nice and intelligent dudes. Unlike their "fans" or that dvmb4ss xqc.
@@gurugurumawaru7869not just xqc but also Adin Ross. Atleast Kai Cenat had the guts to do a collab with Ironmouse a few days ago. Also, did Terroriser atleast watched Neuro-sama and then 1 year later, started shitting on vtubers?
Thanks for the video and insight.
Glad you liked it!
So funny story. I had heard the term vtuber back in 2017. Didn’t look into it. I had heard Ironmouse’s name in like 2020/2021 - somewhere around there - but it didn’t sound like my thing and I forgot about it. Then I saw Noah’s video. Still wasn’t interested but
it did sound like an asshole thing to do because I had heard Mouse was very sick and can’t physically meet her fans. So I thought Noah’s video was cruel but I never looked into it. Then Connor’s video came out. I knew who CDawg was but hadn’t looked into his content in years. I watched that video and was completely curious. So I went down the vtuber rabbit hole. I don’t find any of it cringe at all. I don’t really use that term because it could be used to describe me and has been and it was hurtful. So I prefer the term unique or “not my cup of tea” over words like that. Just because I feel a certain way about something, it doesn’t make it right or wrong and I don’t have to share every feeling or thought I had about something online. I’d rather wait to learn more than jump in like a nut into lava. Someone gets hurt and that’s not cool. I think vtuber are fascinating. Plus I myself don’t like my appearance so I too would find comfort behind an avatar over myself. Whatever a persons reason for doing vtubing shouldn’t matter. The content I’ve watched has always been satisfying and fun. But I’ve been on the internet since before google existed so I’m old and have seen so many things come and go. I hope vtuber stay. I think they’re beat and different and can make so many changes to UA-cam and twitch.
As a Japanese person who has been watching vtuber since the early days, it's really strange to see people from different countries discussing them.
Comes down to misinformation, grifting, intentionally misleading, & jealousy.
Irl streamers are getting upset Vtuber's are getting the things they used to.
There are forces in the media and even hollywood who fears their potential and see them as a threat. Nope not a reach, when there are rich elites, they spend their time thinking about how others sees them and looks at their competition a ton. Narcissistic traits are like that.
Envy is a Deadly Sin
You wanna know what represents the sin of envy?
I have the N-Word pass
Nijisanji
It's Waaaay more than just Envy. It's HATE, PURE HATE.
@@MaskedColorzzzz That company is not merely envy. But greed, wrath and pride
I've been a nerd for most of my life, and as such a big fan of anime since I was a teenager, I always enjoyed watching streamers, but nothing could prepare me for just how loveable Vtubing communities could become. I'm a massive Vtuber fan and I honestly have been so happy. I've even been consistently working out and loosing weight because I want to be in better shape to be able to cheer at concerts and keep moving the entire duration.
I think people hate Vtubers because they either don’t understand them or believe in rumors about them. Great video Rima and I hope you have a great night.
I would also like to add the word "Simp," doesn't mean what it originally meant, Now it means giving money to someone for attention, In the old days it was a little more specific than that, it used to mean doing any and everything to get into someone's pants, so by it's original meaning giving your favorite VTuber tons of money doesn't make one a Simp, however doing so with the intent to sleep with them does.
so simp = gachikoi?
@@zerotimeleft If what I looked up is accurate, not really, as Simping comes more from place of lust and not love, so it's probably not quite the same thing.
Simp nowadays is pretty much used to put off people, mainly men, from supporting women. It's stupid and rarely ever used properly.
@@NeoDragoon159 ok ty
The thing that's crazy is how many people's complaints about vtubers... applies to streamers in general and yet seem to act like face streamers are superior.
1. Fake - Yeah, no, all streamers put on a character, even ones trying to be educational.
2. Cringe - Half of why people watch streamers is to see the reactions to them messing up.
3. Lazy - how is a vtuber model any lazier than basically forgetting to turn off your damn web cam?
They just don't understand honestly. I'm really not even into anime and yet I love watching Hololive and many others. Their talent and comedic ability is why I love them.
The outside view of the community reminds me of that movie "Gamer" how it portrayed a grossly obese guy as the standard gamer.
Thanks for spreading information and awareness.
This is a side of vtubing I (as a rather new fan) didn't know off as much until now.
It's frustrating but important to talk about, especially for those who want to start vtubing, like myself and probably many others as well.
When there are fans there will be haters as well. This is either they really hate concept, that person or just really hate you for no reason. Yeah this is just normal now.
The lack of social trust and online manipulation is the online world’s biggest threat, as one’s words can always change how we perceive information, creating this divinity in not just the Vtuber Space, but in the Online World as a whole.
I never get into the drama of anything as drama, controversy, and allegations is always a thing with any celebrity, massive trend, or idols, but I just want to give my opinion on this topic.
I’ve never been an Anime person to begin with, I’ve never even watched a single Anime in my life in fact, yet I somehow find myself being apart of over 250+ communities in the Vtuber world, connecting with people who have lived different walks of life, having several different disabilities, and personalities.
For me, Vtubing is a thing that helps you express yourself without needing to show your physical appearance. I come to Vtuber streams for the person, not the avatar, and that also goes for my non-Vtubers/Face Cam Streamers.
If people have a dislike for it, then that’s their opinion, and it’s completely normal, as everyone has their likes and dislikes with everything.
This is just my opinion, and I can understand if people who even see this disagree, but sometimes you have to hear the other side of the story or person before basing and making your opinion on a person or subject.
Honestly i hate when people do the fake glitch joke with the vtuber models as my todays tech and such it is literally impossible for that type of glitch to happen ESPECIALLY if you hide your Webcam source from OBS itself so even if your model disappeared your webcam would never show up in the live stream feed
It's because you can be anonymous and therefore harder to predate upon. Also it's the decentralization of being an entertainer. You don't have to go to Hollywood now to have a shot of people throwing money at you if you can entertain them.
Tysm for ur insight and the sc! Appreciate it
Its obvious that the haters don't like people.
Ys, thats is very obvious. Then again they talk so much without knowing what they are talking, It's all talk no bark and no though.
Part of it is lack of understanding. Part of it is a rebound effect from liking cartoons/anime and comics/manga. Part is distrust of the inherent falsehood.
But A LOT of the heat comes from facecam putzes feeling the popularity of certain vtubers threatens their little internet realm. That sense of threat becomes vitriol, that they distill to their viewer masses (and let's be honest, the crushing majority of them couldn't independently think their way out of a Chinese finger trap - look at the JC Denton avatar spam sparked by MaximilianMus and how long it lasted) to parrot that feeling all over the internet.
Great video Rima! I hope a lot of people watch it.
Thank you so much!
Some people see vtubers as a niche rather than a genre
Its technically both
@@heistingcrusader_ad3223 Well yes, but actually no. Vtuber is more about the Genre itselft rather than a niche beacuse a niche is quote " a place, employment, status, or activity for which a person or thing is best fitted. finally found her niche." While yes Vtuber can be a Niche, its more of a Genre, a job that is streaming while keeping your identity hidden. Its a objective opinion among people who knows Vtuber culture, While the one people that didnt know see it as something of a weird niche.
the hate stems from what truly unties us all: Xenophobia
people don't know what VTubers are, aren't willing to give them a chance and due to the current internet culture feel like they have to justify it to themselves and rest of the internet by being hateful, while the others are just looking for something to hate or lash out against and VTubers are an easy target
This is a perfect video to explain the overall phenomenon that is Vtubers, ALOT of haters are just uninformed normies or ppl that can't just call something "cringe" and move on with their lives.
There are some people who may not understand vtubers but there is also the possibility that the vtubers haters who bring negativity are those who have sad miserable lives and try and make themselves feel better by bringing hate over something they dislike or dont understand and its quite sad and pathetic to see those types of individuals act like this
There are instances where a Fan Donates huge amounts in the Past, ONLY to be BANNED by Moderators or by the Streamer themselves like a replacable number of views
Then Question yourself, Why do people hate Vtubers?
"Cartoons are for kids. Not like anime which weird and gross cartoon "
So nobody talks about Family Guys, or South Park?
Edit: Bruh, I'm saying is that many people think that cartoon are for kids yet they are some entertaining purpose in +18 or dark humor while they are criticizing the anime side. EIther misunderstanding or hypocrisy.
The difference is that Peter Griffin doesn't pretend to be sick to beg for donations and the South Park boys as edgy as their humor is don't constantly glorify satanism.
@@saysalla keep pretending to be human
This is a disgusting comment. You don't mention Ironmouse's name but it's pretty obvious who you mean.
I will respond to the accusation that Ironmouse is faking it the same way I respond to the accusation that she is a man. VShojo would definitely know if she was faking her illness and refuse.to support her. CDawgVA also has first hand knowledge of her illness. So now you're talking in terms of conspiracy theories with dozens of people that would have to be involved.
I'll acknowledge that Ironmouse does refer to herself as Satan, and if you wish to criticize that - constructively - I'm willing to discuss it. But I don't think she can seriously be referred to as Satanic. She describes her parents as devout Christians and I assume she is as well, in the absence of evidence to the contrary. It's just an act. Don't confuse fiction with reality.
Avatars have always been a thing on the internet.
How much of a tourist can people be?
People restreaming a VTubers stream and hating on them are more cringe than actually VTubing not gonna lie
the hate of vtubers is similar on the hate on weebs we will still win with time
Hello from the virtual space! I have met friends in VRChat who have been better to me than most IRL connections I've ever made. I cried tears of joy on my 30th birthday thinking I would spend that day being all alone. Instead, I had DJ friends perform for me and was surrounded by close to 100 people who joined the instance just to see me and hang out together. The catharsis I felt that night cannot be described in words...
Be it Vtubers or any other form of communication that is deemed "unusual" to the regular Joe, they are valid if they make you happy. Live a long and healthy life and ignore the nay-sayers. They are just jealous that you found fulfillment before them and on much simpler terms.
I think I remember 1 instance where I understand why people hate Vtubers. You can call me YT comment section enjoyer. As such on Matsuri's stream back in the day when her chat tried to break her bank by donating so much during an Apex stream, someone stood out to me. He wrote along the lines of
I am an engineer. I spent years of years and lots of blood and tears just to earn what this girl made in 2 hours where I worked for few years. What is all my stuggle for?
Then I understood why there are some people that hate vtubers. Someone's success is too blinding regardless if its a vtuber or not. Anybody suceeding will earn hate to those that struggled to reach the same success or failed to succeed.
As someone who's not so much into vtubers, I don't hate vtubers, but i do think the parasocial relationships are terrible, some fans... the things lonely men online will say and do for "their" "waifus" is disturbing.
It's okay to watch vtubers or any online celebrity, it's okay to enjoy their content, and interact with them, but don't forget they're performing an entertainment service, acting as a character, and that's all, they don't know you and likely don't care about you.
"Out of a fear of the unknown, they prefer suffering that is familiar.”
- Nhat Hanh.
Honestly, as shando put it, "Are you gay? If not, why you're trying so hard to prove me or see me as a man?" It's pretty funny.
“I fear no man. but that word (Relatability)... It scares me” - Rima (2024)
my ongoing war against the english language continues..
I usually just say something on the lines of "It is not for me / it's not my thing" to things I don't enjoy or understand. Very rarely feel the need to ridicule something.
Growing up my mom always thought me that "there will be people liking things I don't like, and hating on things that I like". Everything has their fans and haters.
I just wish more people understands this. Most of the criticisms towards vtubers in this video just comes off as ignorant, and baiting for attention that just isn't worth it.
They are just jealous. I don't care if they use virtual avatar or real appearance, if they make good contents, I watch. It's an easy pick, I'd rather watch people who spread fun instead of hate.
Same, me too.
No, but They are Also Betrayed, They Donated money only to be Banned by Moderators, and shift thier beliefs that Vtubers are Truly Fake, and all people should avoid.
About Content, I personally think it's ALL Garbage, because it's just Markiplier on a Virtual Model on Twitch.
6 Hour Unedited Videos called VoDs, Fundamentally and Objectively A WASTE OF TIME
@@VTClapsHoKA waste of time is when you watch a video and get nothing. You didn't laugh, didn't cry, didn't feel sad, didn't think, didn't get angry. You were just bored
I try to vtube as work coz i cant get a irl job coz of my social phobia, going outside is like entering hell for me.
I think the loudest hate for niche things always comes from those with the shallowist mind set, the type that will say they have a like for something 'mainstream' like a sport but not actually be able to tell you much about it and, also not be able to comprehend why someone else might not like that thing. Which therefore makes other interests or even a deep passion for a mainstream interest weird to them.
People hate vtubers for the same reason they hate anime. Most anime’s are thirst traps, overly cringy, and over the top, while the anime’s that are serious, really good, and taking themselves serious get overshadowed because they are the less common type. It’s the same with vtubers
Is it supposed to say *why* instead of *who* in the title?
fixed! ty for pointing this out
I just discovered your channel and you're a great commentary channel to listen to in the back, keep up the good work
The sad thing is people will never change just like anime
Edit: the funny thing is only westerners thinks this not the East
I once hated vtubers a lot, and now they are my favorite content and I like them a lot. I just hope that the hatred towards vtubers dissipates over time, and we must remember that vtubing is a content creation format, so if a Vtuber does something bad or something that does not please everyone, not all vtubers should be criticized for the mistake of 1. There are vtubers of all types, choose the ones you like the most. And another thing, in this community if you search well you can find a lot of talent and charisma and you can also connect with the humanity of the person who gives life to the avatar, as in the case of Ironmouse, a Vtuber that I respect a lot.
First, you're not American. Now you're a male, what's next, your accent is fake!
Jokes aside, thank you for all your hard work finding the information putting all in a fun and interesting video. Love your accent and all the rima-isms you have.
Wow, thanks :D
You always do an amazing job covering these topics! Also love the model ❤
Good show!
as someone who’s been in the fandom since covid lockdown, let me be devil’s advocate: the vtubing fandom is the undertale fandom all over again, and i mean that in a bad way.
don’t get me wrong, the vtuber fanbase has genuinely chill and talented creators and fans, but if i’m being generous, they make up 30-40% of the fanbase. for the other 60-70%… jesus christ, where do i begin.
if i have to recommend a good “response” video, it’s foxakimbo’s “world of unhinged vtubers” video.
Damn, that's a big and accurate oof.
Very true
@@hollow_w33n So true
A lot of vtubers, especially corpos, are just playing characters. They are essentially actors playing a role. Voice changers or no (usually not), male female doesn't matter since they are ACTORS. Indies are a little different, but ultimately they are just people trying to make a connection to other people. Can it earn the money? Sometimes. But usually it doesn't seem to be mainly for that.
"...feels forced and inauthenic"
*shows Vox*
Toppest of keks
The thing that infuriates me about all the hate for fandom is that everyone is a fan of something. Guys will make complete fools of themselves over a football team, but call convention goers "cringe". Like painting yourself orange and blue isn't cringe.
VTubing makes the parasocial relationship obvious, but all fandom is parasocial. If you are a fan of Star Wars, you have a parasocial relationship. If you like cosplay, you have a parasocial relationship. If you like a rock singer, you have a parasocial relationship. You can fool yourself into thinking it's something more, because the actor or the singer or the celebrity is a real person, but you don't really have a relationship with that person, you have a relationship with the person they are pretending to BE. And you are no different than the thousands of people who also have that relationship with them. It is actually dangerous to believe that you, uniquely, have a relationship with that person that is unique and requires some sort of commitment from them.
With VTubers that is obvious because the avatar isn't real. It's a 2D or 3D model..and it invariably has a backstory that is fictional. The kayfabe is important to VTubing because it draws a well defined line between the talent and the character that you are a fan of. You can respect Ironmouse, the VA, for her determination to overcome her illness and empathize with her loneliness, but you know that she's not a pink haired Queen of the Underworld. In Japan, the corporate VTuber characters are not even owned by the talent. And there are still fans who don't know how to draw that line between fiction and reality. But it's important to keep in mind.
As for VTubers all being men posing as women, that just isn't possible with corporate VTubers. The company would clearly know their true identity. And VTubers like Ironmouse have friends that have met them in real life. It should be easy enough to tell if they are really female or obscuring their true gender. i'm not saying that there aren't male VAs that perform female VTubers, but it's not for deceptive purposes and if there's any uncertainty you can usually tell. It's easier to just mind your own damn business.
I find a good chunk of Vtuber channels are just lazy low effort reaction content. The most effort they put into the content is getting ahold of their model and setting the motion capture rigging. Beyond that, they just plaster their model over folks with actual talent and creativity's content and throw in the occasional exaggerated reaction.
25:15 Ironically, the Loony Toons clip you show, was originally made for movie theaters with adults as the viewer target and never intended to be viewed by children.
I wwould say part of the disdain is due to the lack of authenticity. Theres a wall between performer and audience thats thicker than usual caused by the use of avatars. While this isnt a huge deal breaker i can see where some of the criticism comes from. That dragon waifu Zen is my go to example since the use of text to speech is a clear inclination that its a man behind the png. And likely an ugly one at that.
I dont feel Zen would appreciate those assumptions you are making of who she is
Thank you for this video, Lady Rima! It was very detailed and informative. In terms of my thoughts on why Vtubers are hated...Mostly it's because of the denial of acknowledgement, like it's there but don't want to know more because it's something out of range. But please let me say it here and now...Virtual creators are real people too, just using something else that's not their face as a sign of representation and majority of the time, privacy.
Sometimes, I want to make content for my fans but they have to know that I'm not sitting down uploading every single day(only then you may call me a sort of robot 🤖), but I have my own personal things to worry about in life just like everyone else. Guess that's one thing about not having a schedule. Make whatever, whenever.
I started to do Vtubing after watching Hololive and wanted to use my skills of acting and performance back in my younger and soldier days before they rot away completely because things that are not used, you lose. So, I wrote lore for myself and the personality I want to portray. Takes a lot of time, but all worth it. I remember one time when my brother told me that he doesn't understand what a Hatsune Miku is when he was watching stuff on his phone, to which I repled "She is a famous Vocaloid singer that sings and goes on tour using a hologram with a voice created by samples from an actress." but he still doesn't get it. So I think that the lesson at the end of the day is "Like what you want to like, just don't mock them if you view it as something out of your knowledge."
It's what does anime in some circles is still considered incredibly cringe-worthy, the idea of a female streamer LARPing as an anime character gives some people the ick.
ngl i'm suffering hard to a meme in the Zenless Zone Zero community about a fox-girl character that's an image zoomed in on her ears with the caption "hey! my eyes are down here" when I look at your avatar. I don't know if that's good or bad so, make of that what you will
Give it a few more years, all those haters would turn 180 and pretend that they have ALWAYS on the vtubers' side. Just like with anime tourists.
The old ghandi saying goes first they ignore ya, then they mock ya, then they fight you, then you win. Looks like britney venti is angry because it seems like its taking away attention from her. Different niches different audiences. Dont hate cause you dont understand the culture.
VTubers, to me, is basically just VRChat all over again. It'll improve in due time.
Fun chat in the live view and great points in the video. It is very sad many live face streamers shit on vtubers for being men or being cringe or faking everything or being too happy.
Well its because people dont realize how diverse vtubers are. Some are artists, musicians, pro gamers, some are amazing speakers, others are great at commentary. And some are diverse diverse enough to be sble to do modt things for thier fans.
Most of the hate comes from people who have no clue about Vtubers, and never watched one. So they hate what they don't understand.
Tbh, I’ll always prefer vtubers over irl streamers bc they’re more relatable in my opinion, some of the vtubers I watch like most of the stuff I like, for example, Trickywi loves Godzilla
People tend to care too much about the visual issues instead of the internal issues. If anything is disapproved and abstained from by me it is only on a moral standard. If Vtubers are doing things to a moral clarity, it isn’t the issue here then. Regardless of how Vtubers may act, they are individuals and have the free will to do their own decisions and beliefs even if its in a virtual manner. It’s all still open for Vtubers to have many different ways of expressing beliefs. I’ve seen vtubers who go against the grain in majority beliefs and trends with the vtuber community. A couple you may know, one of which I’m a huge fan of. They weren’t even featured on the rewards stream to my knowledge but they still carried the joy and expression of what they love and believe. They can do whatever they choose. So in a summary I don’t disapprove of Vtubing itself, but it is important to take care of peoples well being and expressing moral standards. I have issues with people actually having objectively morally disgusting beliefs. Regardless of who they are. An individual being discreet and virtual isn’t any reason to hate them especially since they have more value in the personal attributes. The people hating vtubers seem to have issues with their hearts themselves and have more morally corrupt behavior.
People need to show more respect to Vtubers, their nothing to Scoff at. As a Vtuber myself (not the anime style tho) i love Vtubing, it’s fun.
Not all of us feel comfortable showing our real faces. Heck, i don’t mind showing my face, but i prefer using a Vtuber because…A: i have a stoic and reserved demeanor, so I’m not very expressive. B: i don’t wanna deal with making myself look presentable, heck…i don’t even wear makeup.
And C: safety, i prefer my Online Persona be separate from my IRL self.
Vtubing is fun…simple as that.
Show them Respect?
There are instances where a Fan Donates huge amounts in the Past only to be BANNED by Moderators or by the Streamer themselves like a replacable number of views
Do you think we show them Respect? R"terd?
@@VTClapsHoK Depends, did the offenders deserve their bans?
@@VTClapsHoK Excuse me. But when does donating huge amoutns of money in the past give the fan entitlement and free range to do whatever they want?
If they got banned there had to be a reason, and more than once it is because they think they are all smart and can get away with any insane remark or misbehavior
@@lsebastian9086 Excuse me, have you even explored Reddit, Discord, and Twitch?
If the Rules of Avoid @pinging and Posting Memes on Main Chat gets users Ban wasn't UNNECESSARY Enough.
Joking about politics ONCE results as an Instant Ban without Acknowledging the Massive Donation, this literally an Exploitation of Viewers.
These Streamers look Insufferable doing this while having Better Income than a Highschool Teacher, that's already FUp
Back to Kirsche real quick, she's the only one doing legitimate journalistic work exposing every instance of dei's constant rebranding and obfuscation, and very very few bigger, more popular streamers take her seriously because she's a vtuber, the discrimination is very real
True. It must be difficult for her as a right leaning Vtuber, because obviously most conservatives are old dude's who hate anime and stuff alike and are going to write her off for simply that.
If these 'reviewers' have no interest in understanding Anime, then why are they dumb enough to even make a review. People who are quick to judge with no actual interest in understanding the subject should really mind their own damn business.
not enough are willing to talk about one of the most basic reasons:
some people just simply don't like it, and the hating/mocking of it is heavily accelerated by online spaces