I agree,they would be perfect guests to get on the podcast to talk about this stuff.You know who else Jocko should have on the podcast to talk about this stuff? Cops! He should get some cops on the podcast,too(obviously,it would more than likely have to be former cops and not current ones-cops have spoken out against police brutality and corruption but I think it's easier to speak out against these things when you're no longer on the force than it is when you're still on it). Jocko should get guys like Greg Anderson and Dr.Michael A.Wood Jr(Anderson,I believe,is still a police officer but last I heard he was on administrative leave and Wood is a former police officer and they were both in the military prior to becoming police officers).
@@vipergecko03 What would be wrong with advertising a system that actually works versus a system that is clearly inefficient or at least missing important components. I get that branding can be annoying but if the actual system is functional and does what is intended, why is this such a big deal to you guys?
I wish there was a huge push toward getting people like Jocko who are thoroughly skilled in deescalation, leadership in combat, and hand-to-hand combat to train law enforcement to be better equipped to refrain from deadly force unless absolutely necessary. But that would be the difficult, narrow path to success whereas “defund the police!” is the shortsighted, apparently obvious “solution” to many who don’t pause to consider the potentially disastrous second and third order consequences.
Jocko discussed this on JRE podcast and nailed it (same as Ronnie Coleman, a former police officer who had some great ideas to improve standards) It's a shame those in power don't have any appetite for change (it's almost like they think change equates to them being in the wrong and they don't want to admit there are any fundamental issues in their police force).
Brief of Jocko's lessons: 1. All your excuses are lies, so stop lying and do what you know you have to do. Be brave if necessary 2. Do BJJ. Master it. 3. Be a Leader. Always do what a leader is supposed to do. 4. Be responsible, be accountable. Own your position and your place. Don't let your boss, wife, son, professor or master down. 5. Don't be afraid if you do a mistake. If you lose one, keep going on. One should never defeat itself. If someone beats you or if you fail on your own, learn with it. Get better. And do not fail anymore. What more could be added?
1. Black and white, and a "functional truth": Believing something like that can be beneficial for the individual, yet it's not, and doesn't even try to be, an objective description of reality. 2. Works if you have the same attitude as Jocko, the same temperament. If you think you need martial arts to temper yourself and "figure out life", go for it. 3. Most people aren't leaders. 4. Something to strive for, but difficult. You're going to let people down. 5.Actually solid advice, no obvious counterpoints to be made. Sike! It's very optimistic.
04:08 There is your problem right there. I agree with a lot that is being said here but this is a mentality problem. A police officer should not consider himself a warrior. Serve and protect, not seek and destroy.
This caught me too. Yes. We don't need warriors responding to calls about 13 year olds with autism. Either attitudes need to be adjusted or we need to slim down the police and hire a set of people willing to not be warriors. Sadly the police unions probably won't allow this and things won't ever get better without some serious unrest.
Good call out. I thought that was strange that the guy who wrote the letter was upset about the loss of "warrior mentality". If he yearns to be a warrior join the military
I have a problem with the police as first responders. For instance, when my mother died, a police officer showed up at the house before the ambulance. It's like calling the navy because of a plumbing problem because they both deal with water. In this case the police and the EMTs both deal with dead bodies, but for different reasons. The police are there to handle crimes. They aren't needed to direct traffic or to calm down a mental patient or to deal with people that died of natural causes.
Sorry to hear about your mum. As a LEO. I go to deceased people and sometimes arrive before ambulance and sometimes after depending on how busy EMTs are sometimes they can be backed up for hours. Sometimes we need to do first aid or CPR or help the EMTs gain access. Our job is to determine if the death is suspicious and investigate it. It sucks and we don’t like these kind of jobs. It all depends on policy. Mental patients as you call them. we get called to those types of jobs by social workers or doctors to help or public and don’t know what is happening until we arrive. This is usually the case with every job. Never know what we will get.
This reminds me in this discussion of a karate maneuver I was taught with others in a karate class years ago. It's a choke hold that is very effective in causing a criminal suspect to cease being aggressive. I stopped two fights from escalating into further aggression on two separate occasions. I was successful in both fights in defeating both opponents on two separate occasions. It's only because of my karate instructor teaching me this chokehold years ago that enabled me to defeat two attackers in two separate locations. Same as with another great physical process the instructor taught us in karate class that gave me victory in still two other fights that two other guys started with me that I stopped by knocking the fight out of two different fighters. Thanks instructor. We needed that. Be strong. Be vigilant. Be blessed.
I mean the fact that this guy says we are trained to be Warriors reflects the issue with policing in general. There is no war, you are not supposed to be a warrior you are supposed to be a guardian. The top cop isn't wrong. Police in America desperately need to change the policing culture to reflect that.
So you could see why "being taught to warriors" in the academy, and identifying as such is a problem. The police in my college town have 2 Swat MRAP tanks. What for, why do they have that? For to long police have been sending the public the wrong message and now we are in the situation we are in. That's my opinion but I come by it honestly.
@Craig Scott I live in Philadelphia, we still don't need warriors policing our streets. That's just more dead bodies. We need guardians who use violence as a last resort.
Alex Hatfield And what happens when you don’t have the time to exhaust all other options? What happens when it’s 0 to 100 and there is no in between? No one should have to be hurt just to protect an attacker.
Ever deal with hardened criminals day in and day out? They need to be able to click the switch, which is the hard part, can’t treat everyone with children’s gloves, you’ll end up dead yourself. Don’t be so soft, and if you don’t wanna deal with police, don’t commit crimes.
@Craig Scott That's speculation. Incidents of officers firing their weapons aren't strongly correlated with crime rates. "About one-in-five officers (22%) in areas with at least six and but fewer than 10 violent crimes per 1,000 residents in 2015 have ever fired their service weapon. By contrast, about a third (32%) of officers who work in areas with a lower violent crime rate have discharged their gun. In areas where the violent crime rate is 10 or more, 28% of officers have fired their weapon. However, that proportion is not significantly different from the share that works in communities with fewer than six or six to fewer than 10 violent crimes per 1,000 residents." ... From another study: "The consistent find-ings across all six jurisdictions are that mostarrests do not involve any force by the policeor by suspects. In those situations wheresome type of force is used, typically noweapon is used, threatened, or even dis-played. When police use some form of weap-onless tactic (hitting, kicking, wrestling, etc.),the most frequent tactic involves grabbingonly."
Perfect. That’s how it’s done. But very importantly as my father told me, reconcile yourself to the inevitability of gradualness . It’s always a process.
Didn't you listen to Yuri? The avenue for reason has expired. We are in a war. The only thing you should be concerned about now is winning and power. Any other goal will just get you killed.
The fraternity that tells cops they’re warriors and need to back one another under ANY circumstance needs to be forever broken. Seeing the streets as a war zone and us vs them when every member of the public is “them” needs to end. Training cops to view insubordination as a direct threat to their safety needs to end.
Craig Scott support has nothing to do with it. People supported cops for the most part before floyd died and we still had tons of instances of cops usurping people’s rights to make their jobs easier, padding and embellishing police reports to make themselves look less liable, lying about reasons for contact so they can fish and count you as a quota tick. Arresting people for victimless crimes so their dept gets more funding next year. Along with qualified immunity and OIS investigations (aka:financial motivation to pull the trigger) it all needs to end before I support cops. Yeah I know not all cops are bad, but their inaction enables the bad apples.
And they use BS like the Rico act to seize people’s property and steal their stuff. They are government sanctioned criminals that serve a very necessary function. It’s a nasty combination. Which is why it’s such a hyperbolic topic.
Coming from the my prospective as someone looking in from the UK. The police officer mentioned in his email that they were told in the academy you are "warriors" now we're called guardians and morale is low. A police officer should never be a warrior, this is the exact mentality that's the problem. Police should be good community members, keepers of the peace, experts in deescalation. You're not warriors, you're not in the military. America is a weird fucking place
I tried with my current department. Pushed led by example, found free training opportunities ect. The problems are no one on patrol is motivated to train and command just ignores me so I'm at an impasse.
@@nightfighter7452 Officers need to train BJJ consistently for years to be proficient. In addition, they need firearms, legal, driving, investigative, first aid training, etc. It's easy to say that departments need more mandatory training but that requires more money for training and staffing. A lot of departments don't have the budget as it is. Where is this money coming from? Should taxes be raised?
Internet Gas Exactly. Start putting “shall” rather than “should” in policy. And sanction those who deviate from those policies. Maybe institute something along the lines of NJP for police departments. And give it teeth.
If the police aren't motivated to train, then perhaps chokeholds should be banned. If it's going to be allowed they need to know how to do it properly.
There may be something wrong with idea that some police officers view themselves as warriors and not public servants. A police officer is not a solider. Protect and serve.
@Homo M Bison being a police officer is an inherently dangerous job. It's what you willingly sign up for. There's police officers all over the world that do their job without a firearm. Having said that, police officers need to be trained, evaluated, and compensated extremely well for the risk they take everyday. Training and evaluation should be a career long requirement.
I agree with you Mr. R. medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759 Guy was saying most of the time they aren't even in violent situations, but in situations that require a deescalation or therapist type mindset...yeah there's a time and place for the warrior but that's can't be it 24-7.
azarel7 this guys name is officer acab. This article is also a load of bullshit. He remains anonymous, utilizing talking points that are well versed and common around the internet. He’s no longer a cop so there wouldn’t be a point in trying to hide his identity. He posits that “all cops are bastards” and downplays the significance of criminal activity happening within the city. He over emphasized criminal empathy, and trivializes violent crime and the police’s response to it. You got duped by a larp.
In dangerous areas cops probably feel like they're in a warzone. They naturally end up with a bad attitude towards people when they're constantly interacting with lying, scheming criminals. Seeing horrible crimes committed. They develop an us versus them mentality naturally. Stereotypes naturally develop as well bc humans rely on recognizing patterns especially in dangerous circumstances. But the majority of them are good people who get satisfaction from saving people from violence.
That depends entirely on your definition of the word warrior, there are several dictionary definitions that are not confined to war and soldiering. For Jocko viewing oneself as a warrior is a mindset of preparedness and personal responsibility, it’s taking extreme ownership. Thus his The Way of the Warrior Kid series which is about shouldering responsibility and is not a manual on training child soldiers.
I haven't commented on a youtube video in maybe over a decade, but I heard something in this video that does make me want to leave one. Now, first off, I'm from the Netherlands, we don't have a lot of guns here, so the amount of danger our policeforce faces is way lower than that of their american equivalent. However, deaths by cops and cops ending up dead are also drastically lower. I am mentioning this so people reading this know where I'm coming from and what my perspective is. The thing that made me want to comment was something the letter writer said, namely: ''We were trained in the academy to be Warriors, now the department doesn't allow ourselves to call ourselves Warriors, only Guardians.'' Forgive my potential ignorance, but I think that's a very good thing. Police officers are not Warriors, they're not the military, they're not trained to the same extent or level as someone in the armed forces would be. They are there to ''Protect and Serve'' not to ''Fight and Conquer.'' Police Officers in the United States are trained for 18 months with a 6 month evaluation, that's not a very long time. For a comparison: in the Netherlands, where it's way easier to police in my view due to a lack of guns, cops are trained for four years and by that point, they're only entry level cops. In that short amount of time, American cops need to learn so much, and how to deal with a vast array of different circumstances. They need to learn about many different subjects, they don't get the time to be trained to be proper ''Warriors'' nor should they be, that's what SWAT is for. From my view as an outsider with zero skin in the game, I think one of the primary problems in the U.S. police force is this exact issue, they don't get enough training, they view their patrol routes as warzones (somewhat understandably although still not good) and they view themselves as something which they are not: Warriors. Warriors fight to the death, Guardians protect that which they hold dear. One is all about escalations, dealing with the threat with overwhelming force. The other is all about de escalation, trying to prevent harm wherever possible. This is not to say that a Guardian will not use force, but only as a last resort. While a Warrior goes in with force as it's first method of dealing with a situation. Personally (as is showcased in my country) I'd rather have my police officers be Guardians rather than Warriors. When Warriors are needed, get SWAT, get the military, they've been trained solely for this purpose. And let police officers primary goal be to protect and serve.
I appreciate your perspective! I agree that instead of abolishing or defunding the police-I think the cops need a LOT more training. In the US the police academy only lasts 4-6 months, with on-the-job training afterwards. It needs to be drastically rethought. But folks still say “we need more qualified and leaner police forces” when there are entire cities and communities that are vastly UNDERPOLICED and are suffering immensely from gang violence and drugs that kill 3 year old girls in their beds at night, kill 66 year old guys walking their dog in the morning, etc. I mean south side of Chicago this weekend saw more than 50 people shot. That’s an area where we need to police MORE. The warrior comment also made me a little worried. I think maybe it’s a bit more of a nuance to them rather than the true definition, but it also struck me the wrong way. I think what he meant when he wrote that comment is that they feel like they’re neutered because everyone’s looking at them closely and restricting their use of tactics (choke holds, riot control, etc) which in turn will actually increase the amount of citizen and cop deaths.
Lots of the places they go in the city are war zones. Control by gangs. Gotta deal with the elephant in the room (gangs).. our pussified "progressive left" dont want to do what NEEDS to be done with gangs
You would be considered a leftist here, but I agree wholeheartedly. Also, your English is better than most Americans' English. To add to your point, the purpose of law enforcement is not just the enforcement of the law but also the maintenance of order. The maintenance of order is a much broader concept, and that goal is being undermined by the view of the rest of the populace as an opposing force. The training will not help if that mindset is not tempered.
I agree. Abolishing or even defunding police is not a good idea. But MUCH more training and an attitude change is needed. Many cops come at you automatically like you’re the asshole. I know some cops. Believe me they’re assholes even when they’re not on duty. I was recently SCREAMED at by a cop after I was hit by another car on the interstate. Yelled at to “move the fucking car because I don’t want to die”. Um ok sir. I don’t either but the car no longer works. Anyway they need to stop with the power tripping. EVERYONE knows what I mean. Maybe training would help. Although I went to school with a kid who was “mentally retarded” and a bully when we were kids but somehow wound up on the police force. They need to be trained how to deal with people having mental issues. Beating them up does not help. Instead of spending money on Humvees and armored military vehicles maybe some classes on how to de-escalate might help. Most cops don’t work in “war zones” so to speak. A complete overhaul is necessary. Yeah it takes money but oh well. As a taxpayer I’m happy to contribute.
Police officers should never think of themselves as warriors. That was the only statement I disagreed with. SWAT are warriors, soldiers are warriors. Warriors come in to attack and win. Police officers should be there to protect society and the "greater good" and enforce the rules that serve this. Force is a necessary component of that but only if the offender resists. Otherwise minimum force to do your job.
Absolutely. At some point society made ok to have police militarized. Departments spend taxoayers money gor training done by ex spec ops. The bad that vomes out of that far oitweighs the good. I don't want fletcher oklahoma pd treating every citizen as a hostile combatant like we're in afghanistan
Yes, but it seems like most of the choke hold deaths are from suspects who are on drugs and have heart disease. These aren't the somewhat healthy adults you put to sleep in BJJ class. The proper choke hold doesn't directly kill them, but it sets off the chain of events that kills them (ex. increased adrenaline -> raised BP -> heart or asthma attack, etc.). Either way, the public is going to see 1) a person died in custody 2) a choke was performed. Even if the guy who wrote the letter makes it to chief, public pressure will be too overwhelming for him to oppose or he will be fired. The mob doesn't think logically like Jocko does. Also, I think medical examiners who may not be familiar with BJJ choke holds are always going to list the choke as a contributing factor, so you're back to square one with the public pressure.
Hell, the public is convinced that pinning somebody to the ground causes asphyxiation (instead of pulmonary edema from ingesting 2mg of fentanyl, for example). Honestly, this isn’t a problem that can be solved within any department, because it’s a problem in all of society - people who are totally ignorant of anatomy and use of force forming instant, hyper-emotional opinions about short video clips. It isn’t going away anytime soon. If ever.
@@dafunkmonster It's very realistic to believe being pinned to the ground causes asphyxiation. Seeing as how there was an entire medical term created because of the regularity of it (positional asphyxia), there's absolutely evidence that it's a problem, especially in subjects that are overweight or have health issues that would otherwise be unknown. Using the body's weight against itself (due to gravity) along with an additional force or pressure applied in the abdominal or neck region would most definitely be cause for labored breathing.
Well the reason why this issue is so “political” it’s not just because techniques used against suspects it’s because many Americans feel that many law enforcement members use excessive, unnecessary force but individual officers who break the law are unaccountable. If you’re a doctor you can be sued for negligence and loose your license, but if you’re a cop it’s likely that you won’t be sued but instead represented by your police union. Then, you can simply move to a different city or state. You talk about having extreme ownership but these individuals are clearly not doing it and someone has to keep them in check.
I think the one issue not being addressed here, is the WHY of LE having a warrior attitude against minority suspects. If the US sends military to a foreign nation, I think the idea of having the us vs them mindset is implicit and most people would expect that of a good soldier. But if we are talking about American citizens being policed, the Constitution says that should be at the consent of the governed. In other words, the same outrage that people would have if police were regularly abusing suburban white citizens *should* be similar when it's happening to urban minority citizens.Minorities are not inherently lawless, but poverty does inherently induce desperation among a populace. We have equated street crime in this country to some kind of savagery, but we excuse grift and corruption as just business as usual. This unequal application of the laws and privileges in a society undermines the moral authority to actually enforce said laws, which is why we are seeing so much resistance to it. Besides that, we also have a problem with the departments being staffed with small, cowardly men and women who do not have the stature to engage in physical combat. I think if the police was made of a smaller number of highly trained and physically formidable men, who weren't panicked by the first sign of danger and could actually subdue resistance, people wouldn't be calling to defund. A higher LEVEL of policing would be executed properly, and command more respect than what we are seeing now
Who the hell let you on UA-cam with your rational thinking? Here we just pick the most applicable talking points provided by our political overlords and scream them at other people.
So far these are excellent points by the primary commenter and the replies. Statistically there is a racial disparity of crime arrests. Violent interactions and perpetrators deaths are less skewed toward minorities as a percentage of incidents but overall there are simply more police interactions by minorities. So the question is why. The dept of justice statistics, the census bureau and the United Nations (i care nothing about this last organization) all show that economic situations and geographical locations correlate to police interactions. Minorities are more likely to live in concentrated urban environments. It’s also true there is a disproportionate mindset in minority communities to shun education and individual accountability. While police reform and perhaps law reform is obligated, the issue will not disappear until communities drop the glorification of crime and lawlessness.
I'm a retired LEO. In my opinion, most police academies in the US are not willing to make the investment to train their officers to a competent level of unarmed self defense or apprehension tactics. I believe the average amount of unarmed defensive tactics is about 12 hours for a six month academy. Politics usually dictate police training curriculum. Tactics that appear distasteful or unpleasant are not going to be included in a training regime. Modern American police physical training is geared so that people weighing less that 100 lbs can successfully pass defensive tactics training. Concerns about injuries, law suits and discriminatory practices have watered down the training. There is no "pressure testing." I never in my police career ever employed any unarmed tactic that I was taught in the police academy. I relied on my college wrestling skills and WW2 self defense techniques that I studied on my own. Speciality military units train constantly. Cops train about four days a year. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that police departments are going take defense tactics training seriously.
The problem is that people are not involved in a professional training environment even the language used creates detrimental outcomes... for example people thinking that it’s a “choke hold” and so they are “strangling their adversaries” my jujitsu training is limited but I was taught “vice holds” because the vice holds a particular position and location and the person is sleeping before they know what has happened. Choking the person creates a different imagery and perspective... whereas a left handed vice slips in feels gentle but firm... using the inner musculature and structure to confirm the pulse sometimes as you only apply enough pressure to affect the blood flow... to the person being “choked out” your not choking him... your holding on to him. His respiration is barely if at all affected. For intelligence purposes it’s absolutely necessary to be capable of capturing enemy combatants alive. For law enforcement officers everyone is supposed to be captured alive. Serious causalities is a result of serious mistakes. Mentality, attitude and language form a type of invisible terrain that dictates what outcomes are likely and even possible. The proper use of violence is to prevent violence; violence can easily create cycles of violence in which fear and violence becomes standard and the escalation violence is the only outcome possible automatically as this occurs. Only the restraint from using the use of violence resets the pattern. Failure to recognize that results in open conflict. British soldiers struck with snowballs and rocks fire muskets... later colonials fire muskets. See the big picture use the least amount of force and strongest form of influence.... someone says “we have bad leaders...” Jocko says... “GOOD. It’s easier to help them and they need the help.”
Hey man, you're probably right with what you're saying, that the mentality, attitude, and language, form a type of terrain that constrains what type of outcomes are possible. However what you are missing is the fact that police officers, military, and the like NEED to use aggressive language with each other, for internal psychological reasons. It is incredibly difficult for an average person to drum up the aggression necessary to dominate another person. There is all sorts of self doubt that arises in your own mind about whether or not you have what it takes, why are you even doing this, etc. That's before you've even assessed how big the other guy is relative to yourself. The way that warriors of the past and present get over the mental barriers that prevent them from freezing in a fight or flight situation is by cultivating and enforcing a warrior's mindset. That is a mindset of aggression, and that is the only way we currently know of to unlock the mind so that it can perform in a dangerous situation. Statistically speaking, most people's instinct upon confrontation and realization that someone does not intend to submit to your will is to freeze, or try to disengage/remove yourself from the situation. There is no negotiation with the human psyche in the moment, because its an automatic response. That's why police train the way they do, and talk the way they do. If this is your job, the warrior's mindset is your way of life.
When people were hanged without breaking their necks, they were not chocked out. They died from a stroke when the artery was pinched. That the same artery that's pinched that puts them to sleep in a "sleeper hold."
He’s also talking about the carotid choke as applied by someone who knows how to do it correctly. If police were blue or even purple belt level you’d have a force that could control only choking when absolutely necessary.
Jocko's got good points on this issue, and he's also mature enough to understand how to make positive change in an organization. However, I do have concerns about the difference in the mentality of being a "warrior" or a "guardian" as mentioned in the letter he read.
@@johnm243 Jamarcus Glovers girlfriend Breonna Taylor died, most proximately, because her boyfriend decided to get into a gun battle with police. No knock warrants are judicially sanctioned and have been executed for many decades with little or no controversy whatsoever. It has been a presumption of our legal system for 200 years that warrants will, on some, occasions, if not most, be served in circumstances that , in retrospect, were less than certain. It is certainly the province of our judicial branch to rule that no knock warrants are constitutionally prohibited. They have yet to do so. Should it happen, that too, will result in the deaths of many innocent people who are just as valuable to their families and loved ones as Jamarcus Glovers girlfriend, whom he put in jeopardy when he decided to shoot it out with police officers. Of course, those casualties of the demise of no-knocks will be unimportant because they will be cops blown off of porches by people like Jamarcus Glover. These uncelebrated dead will be people who are not particularly loved by our Universities, Hollywood, Media, and Big Tech oligarchy. They don't care if a mother of two who happens to be a police officer gets blown of a porch. Thats page 6 news, unlike drug dealer Jamarcus Glovers girlfriend. Think about it. If Jamarcus had been able to just kill three or four cops you would get to eat dinner in peace and watch football.....doesn't that sound reasonable.
Although I work for my state’s DOC, we switched to ARCON a year ago. I feel so much more comfortable in a use of force, and I’ve had to use both the old and new defensive tactics systems, I was more worried about having to use force with the old system due to the limited amount of techniques available. ARCON allows for the use of any martial arts, specifically jiu jitsu, that we may train in to gain control. We weren’t taught to use choke holds but even without I still feel I can get the control I need to get the inmate into restraints. I do see potential incidents where a choke hold may be the difference between gaining control and getting backup on the way and me going to the hospital. It’s sad to see people calling for defunding the police. Departments need more funding to get better training. I’m grateful my department was able to get the LAPD to come and train our instructors on their great program.
J P that’s why we need to vote in better politicians so unconstitutional laws don’t get put into place. Cops hate those laws and having to enforce them. Outside of those laws officers would like better arrest control training, better deescalation training and better equipment. Not all departments have tasers. My state police only got tasers a couple years ago. I was going through the academy while they were doing their in service training for em.
It wold be great if Jocko could run a campaign for training, educating, and motivating law enforcement. My friend in law enforcement recently told me his salary ($60,000), and I was shocked to hear how low it was considering he's higher ranked and has been with his department for over ten years. It's a very stressful job with low pay and long hours, so I'm sure the motivation would help.
I’m a proponent of a nation wide police standard . Depending on city and department , your PD can be as well trained, in shape, and legal competent as a top tier unit. Other PDs can be filled with whoever applied regardless their condition, had a dad/friend who hired them , comfortable and fat under protection of a union ... Police need better screening and training, and STRICT oversight of corruption and standards.
Better training is needed, but take with a grain of salt from a guy who had a team of like 20 guys who get paid to train 95% of the time because they have to be the best of the best I’d love to see how much time SEALS could work on their craft while spending 8 hours a day jumping calls and listening to people complain about evicting their boyfriend for eating their leftovers, then having to work a second shift outside a bar til 3 am because they get paid $40k a year to risk their life
But NYC whet there are 50 cops within blocks reaction is very different than a sheriff in Montana where the nearest backup could be 20 minutes or more. How do were have a national standard with thay variety? Gotta have flexibility in approach due to circumstance.
Very few jobs require a year long hiring process consisting of multiple interviews, drug and psych testing, and physical and written testing. The process is fine how it is
Beef Montgomery very few jobs give a person the power a officer has over other people’s lives . Everything from a discretionary arrest to a use of force situation. Anyone should not be giving that power and responsibility.
The additional issue is when you apply the technique to a person who is using heroin and meth together, one of which slows the respiratory system and one increasing, and you restrain them, it accelerates positional asphyxiation. In most of these cases there drugs are present. In addition, if you ever have tried to subdue a person on PCP, good luck.
Man I'm a Provincial Correctional Officer in Canada Ontario and this sounds pretty spot in. If an inmate is coming at me I'm doing everything in my power to come out of it safe. I never chocked anyone out but I know people who have and managment seems to be sooommehwat ok with it depending on the situation.
Police departments don't get to decide how much money they get to spend on training/certification. The politicians,,,and by extension you and me (by voting for them and by expressing what we want our tax money spent on) decide that. Up to now nobody was interested in giving PD's more money for OT for training because that meant Tax increases...complaints....fewer votes. Now people want to punish PD's by taking money from them. Training means officers are not working the street, it means that other officers have to be paid OT to work while others train...or you have to hire more officers and have a cycle of duty/training. It all comes down to $$$
Like slaps and blackjacks, chokes are a great tool but there are/were officers that abused those tools that caused the tools to be removed. Good luck trying to get most of those in LE to attend a weekly BJJ/Wrestling class to practice and learn. I know several officers and I have made the offer not a single one took the offer they rather box or practice shooting. Sadly I learned martial arts, originally 30+ yrs ago, from those in LE or ex-LE but there attitude was very different than those I know or meet today.
I had a pretty major incident with a guillotine applied to me about a year and a half ago It wasnt a matter of not knowing the position, it was just a freak thing. He rotated his wrist to readjust and it crushed my throat, broke the cartilage, immediately felt blood running down he inside as my throat closed. Luckily I was still able to get some air in but it was like breathing through a straw. Couldnt swallow at all for days as in the muscles just didnt work To this day I still choke if I drink too fast and have to manually think about swallowing Also I dont let anyone choke me anymore 😂
@@claudiap.6838 it was training. not even fully live, just drilling You know it's that funny thing, recieveing all these injuries, sometimes very serious ones preparing for a fight that may never come Might be better just to take the ass kicking in real life 😅 Less damage in the long run
Another problem is that state law that comes into play. The wording of how force should be applied by desk joggies in Sacramento who never done the job. I am just an old Matine who calls people on bullshit all the time. No one cares what you think when you are the guy putting in work. All politics and trying protect the salary of the top command staff. I been choked a lot in train ing in the gym. I am still alive. Different choke is the bar arm across the wind pipe. Not a good one.
brother JOCKO... why are you so right, every living american today should be paying attention to this dude!!! as always keep up this awesome podcast JOC God Bless
I really don’t like the idea of law enforcement especially police thinking themselves as warriors. If they mainly interact with members of their community as if they’re the enemy then how can we encourage conflict resolution?
Law enforcement thinking of themselves as warriors is generally more of a "warrior in the garden" scenario, where when conflict comes along, the warrior is far more confident and competent than the gardener, but both are just fine in the garden. Most of these situations where someone is shot and killed by police are due to lack of confidence because of poor training. Let police have the training of warriors and they will be much more physically and mentally tough, which will help them refrain from making poor decisions in the field.
Escalation of Force, and the Spirit of the Law - are ideals that are within everyone and so it does take training and discipline to hone those ideals into tools that are capable of being used in various capacities based on context.
"No one loves a warrior until the enemy is at the gates." The warrior mindset/mentality is necessary to get through critical events a LEO faces. Embracing this mentality doesn't mean you can't ALSO be a guardian.
Uuuh just me but in that question he called police officers “warriors”. Bro you’re not warriors you’re literally guardians not warriors, shows a lot about police mentality
I agree with you all a guardian must be able to protect. All I’m saying is especially in today’s climate where everyone is so sensitive police officers calling themselves warriors could be completely taken the wrong way. It’s a fine line that has to be walked and I definitely don’t have the answers
I'd say it depends on the training. The department down in Hawaii trained in the VNR Ventricular Neck Restraint. It was a requirement to be put out and put others out in live scenarios. I don't know about other departments though.
As a BJJ purple belt, that sounds like poor training to me. A choke is always a choke and never a restraint. A person who has no techniques to control positional dominance has no business applying a choke.
4:25 to "...results to more men on your squad getting hurt". mostly attritional combat. Police don't die as often, so everyone develops long family friends. as Willink says"I have my own team."
The only part I found myself being skeptical about was around 4:12 when the letter says that officers are no longer trained to be warriors but guardians (I personally don’t see the problem with that shift; officers aren’t soldiers, and guardian, while sounding quite grandiose, does better resemble the role of “protect and serve” that’s traditionally affiliated with law enforcement), and that as a consequence, this will directly result in an increase in use of deadly force...I just don’t see how the one leads to the other. The rest of the critique was sensible, but I wasn’t able to wrap my head around that train of thought. Any ideas?
Can we include a more hierarchical set of tools in the discussion too and look to de-escalating too? This conversation didn't even touch on verbal controls not just physical control. And how to ensure incorrectly applied is tackled.
Maybe use the same idea as tasers, each officer takes jujitsu training and is choked out himself/herself and practices that move often. Even then becomes "certified" by trainer or superior, maybe both to insure proper implementation of the choke hold and thereby "trust" can be formed between chief and officers.
Only you can learn to use a taser properly in a day. I’m all for officers being at least a blue belt level, but even that would take a far greater individual commitment to training beyond the current program for police training.
using the banning of choke holds to explain away quite a bit of police corruption/brutality/incompetence ain’t it, sir. especially for Rodney King. alas, you definitely have a point with the effectiveness of it when proper training is done, and how it sounds scarier than it actually is-again, when done correctly. as well as how in response you step up and do the research and work yourself to see to it that the needed change does happen.
Its not just the chokehold. Various other policy decisions morons want to enact to “FiGhT CoRrUPtIoN” would have the opposite effect, and would make officers more beholden to each other as well as incentivize cover ups.
Perhaps as a compromise they could treat choke holds like they do tasers where only officers that have been trained how to do it are allowed to use it at there discretion. Everyone else as self defense but ideally you would just train everyone to know how to do it. And have refreshers and some tests.
That's how it was before... cops don't do things they aren't trained to do unless it's an absolute last resort. It's not legally defensible in court to be untrained and use a tactic without some exigent circumstance.
I love the fact that Jocko points out that it's the person, not necessarily the tools. Whether it's a choke hold, a baton or a gun, it's the person applying it. I agree with Jocko here, despite the fact that I also believe there is a systemic problem with police (who I admire and respect as much as vets). I think 2 things would vastly improve the situation - more (and more consistent) training for officers so they are not "hijacked" when they get into a physical confrontation, and a much more stringent hiring system. Oversight is, of course, implicit. Then the police can do their job, keep both themselves and their communities safe and go home. The "bad apple" defense is a obviation of responsibility. The other thing Jocko nails is leadership. Leadership should have integrity. Believing and supporting your team doesn't mean turning a blind eye to breakdowns, but it does mean making sure they have the ability to do the job. We gotta stop thinking in 1's and 0's. Look for the middle ground where things actually get done. Peace!
One problem I have with your formulation: When you say "keep both themselves and their communities safe" I assume you include the dude that is actively trying to harm the police. This to me, is a mental divide. There is no "safe" way to grab a police officer, try to snatch their gun and tell her that you are going to kill them. Nor is there a safe way to punch a police officer in the face and then attempt to mount them. Nor is there a "safe" way to wave a blade at the police and then charge them. By all means, advocate for training. By all means, advocate for strict hiring standards. At the same time understand, at SOME point the training concludes and you actually have to put them to work in an environment that is real. Where there is no referee to stop the action, nor any training instructor to adjust the hold and there is no ring, no rules and no quarter. Multiply that environment by tens of thousands of lethal and near lethal encounters in ultra dynamic fights to the death (for some suspects that is the goal) and you complicate the cool formulations of the detached . Also understand, you have to make your choices from those that are willing to show up and sign the dotted line. Thats your pool. Not some theoretical world where everyone is a combination of Ghandi, John Wick and Roger Gracie. Once you understand and accept that, you can begin to make decisions because I promise you the calls will not stop coming while you build your army of ideals.
@@sultantouma5437 Not sure I see the disconnect. I agree. Life is not utopia, nor is it theoretical or ideological. The very examples you bring up, are the ones that beg for training. Maybe you think I'm talking about "sensitivity training"? I assure you, I'm not. I'm talking about the kind of training that allows people who are in harms way to maintain mental control in threatening situations. Most police receive about 4hrs per year. They should be getting 4 hours per week. I'd be happy if every officer was a BJJ belt. Notice I didn't say they shouldn't use choke holds or deadly force for that matter. If ideology doesn't translate into real world application, it's horseshit, on that we both seem to agree. And "army of ideals" is only so good as its application. Otherwise it's simply a waste of time. Peace....
I know you touched on it briefly, but it makes total sense that someone in combat is going to respond to a known threat more aggressively than they'd respond to two women cowering in the corner with their children. On the other hand, it seems like in a lot of the more recent situations in our country, there's a mismatch in how the responding officers view the person they approach. When you respond to a call from a mom who's worried about her autistic teenaged son having a breakdown, you're going to react completely differently if you decide he's a dangerous bad guy on a mission to kill other people vs a scared kid struggling to process overwhelming sensory information. If he's an enemy, yeah, taking him out is safest. But what if he's a civilian who's just in over his head? Recognizing the differences can be a matter of life and death no matter which one is true. Am I crazy to think that sending social workers and EMTs to respond to similar calls would likely lead to fewer violent situations? And also let the police focus on doing the serious stuff they trained for?
@@everett1115 you get on here just to try to ruin peoples opinions and the truth which is police arnt soldiers its called public policing so you get out of here
@@NewsChannel-y4g well in my opinion and as far as my logic can bring me it does cops that have a warrior mentality seems to be the issue rate now because they aren't going out in the streets everyday to fight like soldiers do they get paid to serve and protect and uphold the law
Interesting a very stoic mindset by joko. Just focus on what you can control and don't worry about what's not in your power to change and outside factors.
If I have to do a job that sucks for three years before there is change I will just leave especially if your out numbered. Why risk your mental health? At the end of the day Cop's need to change their tactics and entire way of dealing with most of their response to calls.
Listening is a skill that is rarely used. An example is the subject being discussed. Those that are in power to make changes have no interest in listening to solutions.
Retired LEO here. Unfortunately Politicians have no interest in facts and statistics. The grunt on the street is fucked in the current environment. This goes back a decade or more.
Not sure why they are training people in the academy to be "warriors", and why there is an issue with being "just guardians". Police aren't suppose to be waging war against their populace, they are suppose to be "protecting and serving" that populace. If a police officer wants to be warrior, join (or rejoin) the military.
My concern with an officer trying to subdue a suspect with a choke hold, is that the suspect would be in arms reach of the officers firearm. The officer leaves himself vulnerable to being shot with his own weapon. If a suspect is being combative, it would seem logical to me that the officer would keep his distance and deploy a tazer or pepper spray until the suspect was subdued. My point is that choking a suspect with a firearm on your hip will increase the chances that this will be a fatal encounter for the officer.
The only thing I would add considering the police are a public service. You absolutely need to have the public on your side and the best way to do this is to know your neighborhood not just the buildings and streets know the people say hi have a conversation that's not job related.
Completely agree about chokeholds being a better option than striking or shooting. Now, the guy complaining that the department doesn’t want them to call themselves warriors. Absolutely, the cops are not supposed to be warriors. If you wanna call yourself a warrior, join the military. Warriors are trained to kill their enemy. Guardians are there to protect.
Good Afternoon, I want to first say that I am a huge digester of your content and I push it on people as often as possible. After all you get one free book with audible and "Extreme Ownership" is the best use of that by far. I am currently reading Call sign chaos by Jim Mattis. Some of these cases of wrongful use of force remind me of Haditha. The problem could be solved if it was handled by the chain of command. When a "bad apple" takes a course of action that is not in alignment with the way the police force wants to be seen by the people they police, they should be rightfully condemned and the leadership of the police force whom by their career should also be community leaders and not simply leaders of the police force should publicly let it be known that those actions go against the commanders intent. People naturally want to support the police. I am a black USMC veteran and I remember how often I heard the term "police your own" which meant to me that you keep your peers in check and keep a diligent eye on them to ensure they do not sway from the path and do not bring dishonor to the Corps. In these situations, there is no accountability being taken by police. Is it too much to expect extreme ownership in the police force? Also to me it seems that civilians are being held to a higher standard than those who took an oath by those who took an oath. I do not believe in defunding the police. I was happy to see your views align with mine on that matter when you addressed it with Joe Rogan. Police have to take own the fact that you are leaders in our community and you hold us to a standard. We also hold you to a standard and we expect you to "Police your own". The example that comes to my mind when it comes to police accountability and how the community sees it. If you did that instead of always drawing that thin blue line between us we would love you as we should. If there are 5 cops in a video and one of the cops is beating a man face down in handcuffs, %100 percent of the cops in the video are wrong and have forgotten the oath they took. I understand that the media plays its part in twisting stories and cases but many of these things are caught on video and nothing is done until the public or the media calls attention to it. Yes, when a cop tells you to do something you should do it, but if my people don't trust the police and feel they do not live up to their oath, they will be reluctant to keep quiet if they feel their rights are being violated. Even something as simple as "can I see Id?" becomes a problem in a toxic relationship. Who has to take ownership of that relationship? Who has to lead? Whos responsible? As a civilian, I do not have a chain of command and if I did it would probably start and end with the police force if they garnered that trust. -Semper Fidelis & Black Lives Matter
When I worked at the police dept. They had us train in defensive tactics. It has take downs, arm locks, wrist locks, and Etc. I believe they need to bring that back to the depts. and work on those moves regularly.
Whiskey's Gaming Lounge unfortunately mine only does once a year. But we shoot monthly and sometimes twice a month. We need to increase our DTs. I’ve started taking jiu jistu in my free time to compensate.
I agree that choke holds and jiu jitsu or grappling have a place as a tool in LE. Keep in mind though that non compliant subjects are often not in grappling shape and may have underlying health issues that make a choke likely to induce a life threatening result. Asthma, COPD, obesity and various arrhythmia's come to mind. All types of people resist control even to their own detriment. Secondly, it isn't always beneficial for a solo officer to go to ground with someone. An officer trying to effect an arrest solo or even with a partner might want to remain upright to they can better react to a new threat such as a crowd or other people interfering with the arrest. You could have total control of someone on the ground but youre going to have to give it up the second someone starts hittiw you or kicking you from behind. I am by no means an expert it is just my opinion that grappling is a great tool in certain circumstances but so are other less than lethal tools
It'd be interesting to see what Jocko's thoughts are on cops who routinely use excessive-force and no one one calls them out for fear of the force? How do you deal with that? Seems to be at the heart of the issue with bad policing. Cops who won't get back-up if they call other cops out. What sort of game do you play then?
There is a difference between choking someone who is ready for a fight and in good condition versus someone who is poorly exercised, possibly have a health condition, or have dangerous amounts of drugs in their system.
Mike Floyd wasn’t technically choked.He died from asphyxiation.His breathing was restricted for an extended amount of time until he lost consciousness and his brain and vital organs shutdown.
Brooklynballa I’m pretty sure the reduced blood flow was due to the drug overdose. Evidence was him complaining of being short of breath while he was sitting inside the police car, before he was put on the floor. For the record, I don’t think kneeling on him for 7 min was justified. It’s just that in this hyper political atmosphere, being factually correct is very important.
Yes I believe we need to not only provide greater mental training on things such as shoot don’t shoot simulators but also better mental health care as officers are out there seeing the worst humanity has to offer day after day
Standardized and rigorous training would go a long ways in eliminating the gray areas. But no matter what you’ll always have dumb people that do dumb things and think they shouldn’t be held accountable for it. That streets runs two ways.
The problem is that police have very few tools given them. They can either taze, tackle, or shoot. BJJ is a perfect bridge and the gracies even made a course to handcuff without having to choke if optics are an issue.
NYC city council just passed a law that prohibits cops fom putting any pressue on the chest or back of a resisting person. using full mount, back mount and side control is now an arrestable offense to cops. It's insanity....
Alright... Just to be clear with what I meant. First... A choke can kill, very difficult. Second, a choke submits and it is up to the submitter what to do from there.
There is a big difference between a use of force and training in a dojo. Jujitsu is good but you can't always go to the ground. And a lot of time there are alot of people around you and most of the time they are not on your side. Its easy for people to sit back and make comments without ever doing the job.
As more police departments move towards community policing versus the traditional model of policing, they are going to see themselves more as guardians than warriors. This warrior mindset you see within police, is a mindset a lot of departments are trying to get away from because it does not help cultivate an environment where an officer can effectively engage the public like they need to within a community policing approach. It is a mindset that approaches almost every scenario as if the people of the community are a threat to the police. That is why the warrior mentality is being left behind by so many police departments. To be candid, this officer just seems to be a person that can't or won't get on board with the tenets of community policing. If that's the case, he needs to find work in another department or another line of work that is more compatible with what he would like to do. I would also say that this officer needs to try and see what the police department leadership is going before saying they are wrong with trying to develop a different mentality and culture than was there before.
@@kaj4life1 That's the problem we have with policing now a days. With the war on drugs and war on crime, we have developed a mentality that policing is war and as such police need to militarize themselves so they can be effective. The problem with that is that when police militarize themselves they quickly lose their ability to effectively engage with the communities they are sworn to protect on a continual basis. When police militarize themselves to an extreme extent, community citizens will not want to talk to them. Community members will instead avoid or, worse, grow resentful of the police. Neither outcome is good.
Our country really needs Jocko in a leadership position
I’d vote for him
@M M scumbag
He was on the ballot for unity2020 but people picked Krenshaw instead
He was for years
Ryan's Schweikhardt for sure!🥇 he is a winner at life.
Jocko should totally get Rener and Ryron Gracie and his podcast to discuss this stuff. They’d be the perfect guests for this topic.
I agree,they would be perfect guests to get on the podcast to talk about this stuff.You know who else Jocko should have on the podcast to talk about this stuff? Cops!
He should get some cops on the podcast,too(obviously,it would more than likely have to be former cops and not current ones-cops have spoken out against police brutality and corruption but I think it's easier to speak out against these things when you're no longer on the force than it is when you're still on it). Jocko should get guys like Greg Anderson and Dr.Michael A.Wood Jr(Anderson,I believe,is still a police officer but last I heard he was on administrative leave and Wood is a former police officer and they were both in the military prior to becoming police officers).
They would spend 2 hours advertising Gracie Combatives.
@@tilikumtim5562 my thoughts exactly
@@vipergecko03 What would be wrong with advertising a system that actually works versus a system that is clearly inefficient or at least missing important components. I get that branding can be annoying but if the actual system is functional and does what is intended, why is this such a big deal to you guys?
That would be a cool interview....theory vs. reality.
Hi Jocko my wife said you should write a whole new training manual for the law in enforcement. We love you man. God bless you and your family.
This, 100%
We need it
I wish there was a huge push toward getting people like Jocko who are thoroughly skilled in deescalation, leadership in combat, and hand-to-hand combat to train law enforcement to be better equipped to refrain from deadly force unless absolutely necessary. But that would be the difficult, narrow path to success whereas “defund the police!” is the shortsighted, apparently obvious “solution” to many who don’t pause to consider the potentially disastrous second and third order consequences.
Jocko discussed this on JRE podcast and nailed it (same as Ronnie Coleman, a former police officer who had some great ideas to improve standards) It's a shame those in power don't have any appetite for change (it's almost like they think change equates to them being in the wrong and they don't want to admit there are any fundamental issues in their police force).
His books are for all occupations.
Brief of Jocko's lessons:
1. All your excuses are lies, so stop lying and do what you know you have to do. Be brave if necessary
2. Do BJJ. Master it.
3. Be a Leader. Always do what a leader is supposed to do.
4. Be responsible, be accountable. Own your position and your place. Don't let your boss, wife, son, professor or master down.
5. Don't be afraid if you do a mistake. If you lose one, keep going on. One should never defeat itself. If someone beats you or if you fail on your own, learn with it. Get better. And do not fail anymore.
What more could be added?
What if I have a daughter?
Not all hero's wear capes
Your a gentleman and a scholar
1. Black and white, and a "functional truth": Believing something like that can be beneficial for the individual, yet it's not, and doesn't even try to be, an objective description of reality.
2. Works if you have the same attitude as Jocko, the same temperament. If you think you need martial arts to temper yourself and "figure out life", go for it.
3. Most people aren't leaders.
4. Something to strive for, but difficult. You're going to let people down.
5.Actually solid advice, no obvious counterpoints to be made. Sike! It's very optimistic.
Good word brother
If we are all leaders, who will follow?
Jocko Willink for President, please.
04:08 There is your problem right there. I agree with a lot that is being said here but this is a mentality problem. A police officer should not consider himself a warrior. Serve and protect, not seek and destroy.
This caught me too. Yes. We don't need warriors responding to calls about 13 year olds with autism. Either attitudes need to be adjusted or we need to slim down the police and hire a set of people willing to not be warriors. Sadly the police unions probably won't allow this and things won't ever get better without some serious unrest.
Good call out. I thought that was strange that the guy who wrote the letter was upset about the loss of "warrior mentality". If he yearns to be a warrior join the military
@@bobbycrosby9765 l
I have a problem with the police as first responders. For instance, when my mother died, a police officer showed up at the house before the ambulance. It's like calling the navy because of a plumbing problem because they both deal with water. In this case the police and the EMTs both deal with dead bodies, but for different reasons. The police are there to handle crimes. They aren't needed to direct traffic or to calm down a mental patient or to deal with people that died of natural causes.
Sorry to hear about your mum. As a LEO. I go to deceased people and sometimes arrive before ambulance and sometimes after depending on how busy EMTs are sometimes they can be backed up for hours. Sometimes we need to do first aid or CPR or help the EMTs gain access. Our job is to determine if the death is suspicious and investigate it. It sucks and we don’t like these kind of jobs. It all depends on policy. Mental patients as you call them. we get called to those types of jobs by social workers or doctors to help or public and don’t know what is happening until we arrive. This is usually the case with every job. Never know what we will get.
This reminds me in this discussion of a karate maneuver I was taught with others in a karate class years ago. It's a choke hold that is very effective in causing a criminal suspect to cease being aggressive. I stopped two fights from escalating into further aggression on two separate occasions. I was successful in both fights in defeating both opponents on two separate occasions. It's only because of my karate instructor teaching me this chokehold years ago that enabled me to defeat two attackers in two separate locations. Same as with another great physical process the instructor taught us in karate class that gave me victory in still two other fights that two other guys started with me that I stopped by knocking the fight out of two different fighters. Thanks instructor. We needed that. Be strong. Be vigilant. Be blessed.
I mean the fact that this guy says we are trained to be Warriors reflects the issue with policing in general. There is no war, you are not supposed to be a warrior you are supposed to be a guardian. The top cop isn't wrong. Police in America desperately need to change the policing culture to reflect that.
There are times they need to be warriors and times they need to be guardians. Most of the time probably guardians to bring calm to a situation.
So you could see why "being taught to warriors" in the academy, and identifying as such is a problem. The police in my college town have 2 Swat MRAP tanks. What for, why do they have that? For to long police have been sending the public the wrong message and now we are in the situation we are in. That's my opinion but I come by it honestly.
There is an active "War on Drugs"
@Craig Scott I live in Philadelphia, we still don't need warriors policing our streets. That's just more dead bodies. We need guardians who use violence as a last resort.
Alex Hatfield And what happens when you don’t have the time to exhaust all other options? What happens when it’s 0 to 100 and there is no in between?
No one should have to be hurt just to protect an attacker.
I love Jocko’s perspective.
I just wish he wouldn’t express it in slo-mo.
Wow. 👍This talk alone is a morale booster.
That's leadership. wow.
Leading by good example, as it's often the case...
Jocko coughs. 5:29. 5:36.
He is clearly allergic to the PD’s leaderships lack of acknowledgment of the power of Jiu Jitsu.
Maybe it's Rona saying she's there but can't break Jocko
@@ryanschweikhardt this clip is not recent right? the lighting
@@스텔-c6o I don't know that it matters for the joke lol
Trained to be “Warrior”. That is what is wrong. The idea that police are in combat and at war is what leads to treating citizens criminals
Ever deal with hardened criminals day in and day out? They need to be able to click the switch, which is the hard part, can’t treat everyone with children’s gloves, you’ll end up dead yourself. Don’t be so soft, and if you don’t wanna deal with police, don’t commit crimes.
bgmephisto yea cuz everyone knows you only deal with police when you commit crimes
@Craig Scott That's speculation. Incidents of officers firing their weapons aren't strongly correlated with crime rates. "About one-in-five officers (22%) in areas with at least six and but fewer than 10 violent crimes per 1,000 residents in 2015 have ever fired their service weapon. By contrast, about a third (32%) of officers who work in areas with a lower violent crime rate have discharged their gun. In areas where the violent crime rate is 10 or more, 28% of officers have fired their weapon. However, that proportion is not significantly different from the share that works in communities with fewer than six or six to fewer than 10 violent crimes per 1,000 residents." ... From another study: "The consistent find-ings across all six jurisdictions are that mostarrests do not involve any force by the policeor by suspects. In those situations wheresome type of force is used, typically noweapon is used, threatened, or even dis-played. When police use some form of weap-onless tactic (hitting, kicking, wrestling, etc.),the most frequent tactic involves grabbingonly."
The citizens they are interacting with usually are criminals, thats why they are called
@@eugenesnow yes for the most part, that is why police are called
Jocko should be in charge of police reform. Anyone else agree?
Perfect. That’s how it’s done. But very importantly as my father told me, reconcile yourself to the inevitability of gradualness . It’s always a process.
John Dudley is sitting and listening to this and thinking “did Jocko just say -extremely- rare to break a bone in your throat when rolling? Awesome.”
Yea i'm never rolling with Jocko. If Joe Rogan said it's a bad idea, it probably a really bad idea for me.
Dinomra I’ve struck a few big fellas in the throat. I’ve never did major damage. Typically it’ll drop a person.
The voice of reason we all need.
Didn't you listen to Yuri? The avenue for reason has expired. We are in a war. The only thing you should be concerned about now is winning and power. Any other goal will just get you killed.
Greoric M pretty sure common sense says that you’re point of view is what would get you killed. In a war huh? Go get er done bro, see what happens.
Unfortunately, reason and common sense simply do not exist inside some people’s brain. See Greoric here for exhibit A.
The fraternity that tells cops they’re warriors and need to back one another under ANY circumstance needs to be forever broken. Seeing the streets as a war zone and us vs them when every member of the public is “them” needs to end. Training cops to view insubordination as a direct threat to their safety needs to end.
Craig Scott support has nothing to do with it. People supported cops for the most part before floyd died and we still had tons of instances of cops usurping people’s rights to make their jobs easier, padding and embellishing police reports to make themselves look less liable, lying about reasons for contact so they can fish and count you as a quota tick. Arresting people for victimless crimes so their dept gets more funding next year. Along with qualified immunity and OIS investigations (aka:financial motivation to pull the trigger) it all needs to end before I support cops. Yeah I know not all cops are bad, but their inaction enables the bad apples.
And they use BS like the Rico act to seize people’s property and steal their stuff. They are government sanctioned criminals that serve a very necessary function. It’s a nasty combination. Which is why it’s such a hyperbolic topic.
Coming from the my prospective as someone looking in from the UK. The police officer mentioned in his email that they were told in the academy you are "warriors" now we're called guardians and morale is low. A police officer should never be a warrior, this is the exact mentality that's the problem. Police should be good community members, keepers of the peace, experts in deescalation. You're not warriors, you're not in the military. America is a weird fucking place
I tried with my current department. Pushed led by example, found free training opportunities ect. The problems are no one on patrol is motivated to train and command just ignores me so I'm at an impasse.
That's reality. Sometimes there is no satisfying answer from any guru.
Guess police departments _do_ need to raise their standards. Make training mandatory
@@nightfighter7452 Officers need to train BJJ consistently for years to be proficient. In addition, they need firearms, legal, driving, investigative, first aid training, etc. It's easy to say that departments need more mandatory training but that requires more money for training and staffing. A lot of departments don't have the budget as it is. Where is this money coming from? Should taxes be raised?
Internet Gas Exactly. Start putting “shall” rather than “should” in policy. And sanction those who deviate from those policies. Maybe institute something along the lines of NJP for police departments. And give it teeth.
If the police aren't motivated to train, then perhaps chokeholds should be banned. If it's going to be allowed they need to know how to do it properly.
5:29 Jocko simultaneously acquiring and recovering from Covid-19
There may be something wrong with idea that some police officers view themselves as warriors and not public servants. A police officer is not a solider. Protect and serve.
@Homo M Bison being a police officer is an inherently dangerous job. It's what you willingly sign up for. There's police officers all over the world that do their job without a firearm.
Having said that, police officers need to be trained, evaluated, and compensated extremely well for the risk they take everyday. Training and evaluation should be a career long requirement.
I agree with you Mr. R.
medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759
Guy was saying most of the time they aren't even in violent situations, but in situations that require a deescalation or therapist type mindset...yeah there's a time and place for the warrior but that's can't be it 24-7.
azarel7 this guys name is officer acab. This article is also a load of bullshit. He remains anonymous, utilizing talking points that are well versed and common around the internet. He’s no longer a cop so there wouldn’t be a point in trying to hide his identity.
He posits that “all cops are bastards” and downplays the significance of criminal activity happening within the city. He over emphasized criminal empathy, and trivializes violent crime and the police’s response to it.
You got duped by a larp.
In dangerous areas cops probably feel like they're in a warzone. They naturally end up with a bad attitude towards people when they're constantly interacting with lying, scheming criminals. Seeing horrible crimes committed. They develop an us versus them mentality naturally. Stereotypes naturally develop as well bc humans rely on recognizing patterns especially in dangerous circumstances. But the majority of them are good people who get satisfaction from saving people from violence.
That depends entirely on your definition of the word warrior, there are several dictionary definitions that are not confined to war and soldiering. For Jocko viewing oneself as a warrior is a mindset of preparedness and personal responsibility, it’s taking extreme ownership. Thus his The Way of the Warrior Kid series which is about shouldering responsibility and is not a manual on training child soldiers.
Jocko is talking about the kindest way to submit someone with restraint to stop.
I haven't commented on a youtube video in maybe over a decade, but I heard something in this video that does make me want to leave one. Now, first off, I'm from the Netherlands, we don't have a lot of guns here, so the amount of danger our policeforce faces is way lower than that of their american equivalent. However, deaths by cops and cops ending up dead are also drastically lower. I am mentioning this so people reading this know where I'm coming from and what my perspective is.
The thing that made me want to comment was something the letter writer said, namely:
''We were trained in the academy to be Warriors, now the department doesn't allow ourselves to call ourselves Warriors, only Guardians.''
Forgive my potential ignorance, but I think that's a very good thing. Police officers are not Warriors, they're not the military, they're not trained to the same extent or level as someone in the armed forces would be. They are there to ''Protect and Serve'' not to ''Fight and Conquer.'' Police Officers in the United States are trained for 18 months with a 6 month evaluation, that's not a very long time. For a comparison: in the Netherlands, where it's way easier to police in my view due to a lack of guns, cops are trained for four years and by that point, they're only entry level cops. In that short amount of time, American cops need to learn so much, and how to deal with a vast array of different circumstances. They need to learn about many different subjects, they don't get the time to be trained to be proper ''Warriors'' nor should they be, that's what SWAT is for.
From my view as an outsider with zero skin in the game, I think one of the primary problems in the U.S. police force is this exact issue, they don't get enough training, they view their patrol routes as warzones (somewhat understandably although still not good) and they view themselves as something which they are not: Warriors.
Warriors fight to the death, Guardians protect that which they hold dear. One is all about escalations, dealing with the threat with overwhelming force. The other is all about de escalation, trying to prevent harm wherever possible. This is not to say that a Guardian will not use force, but only as a last resort. While a Warrior goes in with force as it's first method of dealing with a situation. Personally (as is showcased in my country) I'd rather have my police officers be Guardians rather than Warriors. When Warriors are needed, get SWAT, get the military, they've been trained solely for this purpose. And let police officers primary goal be to protect and serve.
I appreciate your perspective! I agree that instead of abolishing or defunding the police-I think the cops need a LOT more training. In the US the police academy only lasts 4-6 months, with on-the-job training afterwards. It needs to be drastically rethought. But folks still say “we need more qualified and leaner police forces” when there are entire cities and communities that are vastly UNDERPOLICED and are suffering immensely from gang violence and drugs that kill 3 year old girls in their beds at night, kill 66 year old guys walking their dog in the morning, etc. I mean south side of Chicago this weekend saw more than 50 people shot. That’s an area where we need to police MORE.
The warrior comment also made me a little worried. I think maybe it’s a bit more of a nuance to them rather than the true definition, but it also struck me the wrong way. I think what he meant when he wrote that comment is that they feel like they’re neutered because everyone’s looking at them closely and restricting their use of tactics (choke holds, riot control, etc) which in turn will actually increase the amount of citizen and cop deaths.
Lots of the places they go in the city are war zones. Control by gangs. Gotta deal with the elephant in the room (gangs).. our pussified "progressive left" dont want to do what NEEDS to be done with gangs
A warrior lays his life down for a fellow citizen. A guardian is a spectator of criminal acts. The difference is all in or mostly in.
You would be considered a leftist here, but I agree wholeheartedly. Also, your English is better than most Americans' English.
To add to your point, the purpose of law enforcement is not just the enforcement of the law but also the maintenance of order. The maintenance of order is a much broader concept, and that goal is being undermined by the view of the rest of the populace as an opposing force. The training will not help if that mindset is not tempered.
I agree. Abolishing or even defunding police is not a good idea. But MUCH more training and an attitude change is needed. Many cops come at you automatically like you’re the asshole. I know some cops. Believe me they’re assholes even when they’re not on duty. I was recently SCREAMED at by a cop after I was hit by another car on the interstate. Yelled at to “move the fucking car because I don’t want to die”. Um ok sir. I don’t either but the car no longer works. Anyway they need to stop with the power tripping. EVERYONE knows what I mean. Maybe training would help. Although I went to school with a kid who was “mentally retarded” and a bully when we were kids but somehow wound up on the police force. They need to be trained how to deal with people having mental issues. Beating them up does not help. Instead of spending money on Humvees and armored military vehicles maybe some classes on how to de-escalate might help. Most cops don’t work in “war zones” so to speak. A complete overhaul is necessary. Yeah it takes money but oh well. As a taxpayer I’m happy to contribute.
i was very nervous about the content of this clip but the wisdom at 8:13 is phenomenal. easily one of the best pieces of advice.
Amazing stuff. I've been saying that it should be mandatory for cops to learn jiu-jitsu.
Police officers should never think of themselves as warriors. That was the only statement I disagreed with. SWAT are warriors, soldiers are warriors. Warriors come in to attack and win. Police officers should be there to protect society and the "greater good" and enforce the rules that serve this. Force is a necessary component of that but only if the offender resists. Otherwise minimum force to do your job.
SWAT members are police officers
Absolutely. At some point society made ok to have police militarized. Departments spend taxoayers money gor training done by ex spec ops. The bad that vomes out of that far oitweighs the good. I don't want fletcher oklahoma pd treating every citizen as a hostile combatant like we're in afghanistan
Warriors protect their people, in society across the times and socities.
@@TheIndieSpace No kidding.... They are police attack officers. The military of the police. My point...
We love you jocko 🔥
I really needed to hear this tonight. Thanks, Jocko
Yes, but it seems like most of the choke hold deaths are from suspects who are on drugs and have heart disease. These aren't the somewhat healthy adults you put to sleep in BJJ class. The proper choke hold doesn't directly kill them, but it sets off the chain of events that kills them (ex. increased adrenaline -> raised BP -> heart or asthma attack, etc.).
Either way, the public is going to see 1) a person died in custody 2) a choke was performed. Even if the guy who wrote the letter makes it to chief, public pressure will be too overwhelming for him to oppose or he will be fired. The mob doesn't think logically like Jocko does.
Also, I think medical examiners who may not be familiar with BJJ choke holds are always going to list the choke as a contributing factor, so you're back to square one with the public pressure.
Hell, the public is convinced that pinning somebody to the ground causes asphyxiation (instead of pulmonary edema from ingesting 2mg of fentanyl, for example).
Honestly, this isn’t a problem that can be solved within any department, because it’s a problem in all of society - people who are totally ignorant of anatomy and use of force forming instant, hyper-emotional opinions about short video clips. It isn’t going away anytime soon. If ever.
@@dafunkmonster It's very realistic to believe being pinned to the ground causes asphyxiation. Seeing as how there was an entire medical term created because of the regularity of it (positional asphyxia), there's absolutely evidence that it's a problem, especially in subjects that are overweight or have health issues that would otherwise be unknown. Using the body's weight against itself (due to gravity) along with an additional force or pressure applied in the abdominal or neck region would most definitely be cause for labored breathing.
Well the reason why this issue is so “political” it’s not just because techniques used against suspects it’s because many Americans feel that many law enforcement members use excessive, unnecessary force but individual officers who break the law are unaccountable. If you’re a doctor you can be sued for negligence and loose your license, but if you’re a cop it’s likely that you won’t be sued but instead represented by your police union. Then, you can simply move to a different city or state. You talk about having extreme ownership but these individuals are clearly not doing it and someone has to keep them in check.
Well said.
Troof. Well said
@Chris Madison and those legal fees PLUS the payouts are taken from taxpayers. We spend millions each year on this shit.
“Feel” see that that’s the problem. There’s what people feel, and then there’s reality.
Awesome podcast.This applies to my current job on so many levels.
I think the one issue not being addressed here, is the WHY of LE having a warrior attitude against minority suspects. If the US sends military to a foreign nation, I think the idea of having the us vs them mindset is implicit and most people would expect that of a good soldier. But if we are talking about American citizens being policed, the Constitution says that should be at the consent of the governed. In other words, the same outrage that people would have if police were regularly abusing suburban white citizens *should* be similar when it's happening to urban minority citizens.Minorities are not inherently lawless, but poverty does inherently induce desperation among a populace. We have equated street crime in this country to some kind of savagery, but we excuse grift and corruption as just business as usual. This unequal application of the laws and privileges in a society undermines the moral authority to actually enforce said laws, which is why we are seeing so much resistance to it. Besides that, we also have a problem with the departments being staffed with small, cowardly men and women who do not have the stature to engage in physical combat. I think if the police was made of a smaller number of highly trained and physically formidable men, who weren't panicked by the first sign of danger and could actually subdue resistance, people wouldn't be calling to defund. A higher LEVEL of policing would be executed properly, and command more respect than what we are seeing now
Well said!
Who the hell let you on UA-cam with your rational thinking? Here we just pick the most applicable talking points provided by our political overlords and scream them at other people.
So far these are excellent points by the primary commenter and the replies. Statistically there is a racial disparity of crime arrests. Violent interactions and perpetrators deaths are less skewed toward minorities as a percentage of incidents but overall there are simply more police interactions by minorities. So the question is why. The dept of justice statistics, the census bureau and the United Nations (i care nothing about this last organization) all show that economic situations and geographical locations correlate to police interactions. Minorities are more likely to live in concentrated urban environments. It’s also true there is a disproportionate mindset in minority communities to shun education and individual accountability. While police reform and perhaps law reform is obligated, the issue will not disappear until communities drop the glorification of crime and lawlessness.
I'm a retired LEO. In my opinion, most police academies in the US are not willing to make the investment to train their officers to a competent level of unarmed self defense or apprehension tactics. I believe the average amount of unarmed defensive tactics is about 12 hours for a six month academy. Politics usually dictate police training curriculum. Tactics that appear distasteful or unpleasant are not going to be included in a training regime. Modern American police physical training is geared so that people weighing less that 100 lbs can successfully pass defensive tactics training. Concerns about injuries, law suits and discriminatory practices have watered down the training. There is no "pressure testing." I never in my police career ever employed any unarmed tactic that I was taught in the police academy. I relied on my college wrestling skills and WW2 self defense techniques that I studied on my own. Speciality military units train constantly. Cops train about four days a year. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that police departments are going take defense tactics training seriously.
That's pretty damn sad.
Nnkkkbh 0mmm nkb OOOOOooooooo
Poop ppp
Very logical approach. Well said.
The problem is that people are not involved in a professional training environment even the language used creates detrimental outcomes... for example people thinking that it’s a “choke hold” and so they are “strangling their adversaries” my jujitsu training is limited but I was taught “vice holds” because the vice holds a particular position and location and the person is sleeping before they know what has happened. Choking the person creates a different imagery and perspective... whereas a left handed vice slips in feels gentle but firm... using the inner musculature and structure to confirm the pulse sometimes as you only apply enough pressure to affect the blood flow... to the person being “choked out” your not choking him... your holding on to him. His respiration is barely if at all affected. For intelligence purposes it’s absolutely necessary to be capable of capturing enemy combatants alive. For law enforcement officers everyone is supposed to be captured alive. Serious causalities is a result of serious mistakes. Mentality, attitude and language form a type of invisible terrain that dictates what outcomes are likely and even possible. The proper use of violence is to prevent violence; violence can easily create cycles of violence in which fear and violence becomes standard and the escalation violence is the only outcome possible automatically as this occurs. Only the restraint from using the use of violence resets the pattern. Failure to recognize that results in open conflict. British soldiers struck with snowballs and rocks fire muskets... later colonials fire muskets. See the big picture use the least amount of force and strongest form of influence.... someone says “we have bad leaders...” Jocko says... “GOOD. It’s easier to help them and they need the help.”
Hey man, you're probably right with what you're saying, that the mentality, attitude, and language, form a type of terrain that constrains what type of outcomes are possible. However what you are missing is the fact that police officers, military, and the like NEED to use aggressive language with each other, for internal psychological reasons. It is incredibly difficult for an average person to drum up the aggression necessary to dominate another person. There is all sorts of self doubt that arises in your own mind about whether or not you have what it takes, why are you even doing this, etc. That's before you've even assessed how big the other guy is relative to yourself. The way that warriors of the past and present get over the mental barriers that prevent them from freezing in a fight or flight situation is by cultivating and enforcing a warrior's mindset. That is a mindset of aggression, and that is the only way we currently know of to unlock the mind so that it can perform in a dangerous situation. Statistically speaking, most people's instinct upon confrontation and realization that someone does not intend to submit to your will is to freeze, or try to disengage/remove yourself from the situation. There is no negotiation with the human psyche in the moment, because its an automatic response. That's why police train the way they do, and talk the way they do. If this is your job, the warrior's mindset is your way of life.
When people were hanged without breaking their necks, they were not chocked out. They died from a stroke when the artery was pinched. That the same artery that's pinched that puts them to sleep in a "sleeper hold."
Best of luck to the guy who sent in this question. I hope he creates positive change for the department.
Really never thought about the choke as a safer alternative to striking or shooting. Great eye opener.
He’s also talking about the carotid choke as applied by someone who knows how to do it correctly. If police were blue or even purple belt level you’d have a force that could control only choking when absolutely necessary.
Jocko's got good points on this issue, and he's also mature enough to understand how to make positive change in an organization. However, I do have concerns about the difference in the mentality of being a "warrior" or a "guardian" as mentioned in the letter he read.
Same, I think that "warrior" mentality is the reason why Duncan Kemp and Breonna Taylor died in these no-knock raids
@@johnm243 Jamarcus Glovers girlfriend Breonna Taylor died, most proximately, because her boyfriend decided to get into a gun battle with police. No knock warrants are judicially sanctioned and have been executed for many decades with little or no controversy whatsoever. It has been a presumption of our legal system for 200 years that warrants will, on some, occasions, if not most, be served in circumstances that , in retrospect, were less than certain. It is certainly the province of our judicial branch to rule that no knock warrants are constitutionally prohibited. They have yet to do so. Should it happen, that too, will result in the deaths of many innocent people who are just as valuable to their families and loved ones as Jamarcus Glovers girlfriend, whom he put in jeopardy when he decided to shoot it out with police officers. Of course, those casualties of the demise of no-knocks will be unimportant because they will be cops blown off of porches by people like Jamarcus Glover. These uncelebrated dead will be people who are not particularly loved by our Universities, Hollywood, Media, and Big Tech oligarchy. They don't care if a mother of two who happens to be a police officer gets blown of a porch. Thats page 6 news, unlike drug dealer Jamarcus Glovers girlfriend. Think about it. If Jamarcus had been able to just kill three or four cops you would get to eat dinner in peace and watch football.....doesn't that sound reasonable.
Although I work for my state’s DOC, we switched to ARCON a year ago. I feel so much more comfortable in a use of force, and I’ve had to use both the old and new defensive tactics systems, I was more worried about having to use force with the old system due to the limited amount of techniques available. ARCON allows for the use of any martial arts, specifically jiu jitsu, that we may train in to gain control. We weren’t taught to use choke holds but even without I still feel I can get the control I need to get the inmate into restraints. I do see potential incidents where a choke hold may be the difference between gaining control and getting backup on the way and me going to the hospital. It’s sad to see people calling for defunding the police. Departments need more funding to get better training. I’m grateful my department was able to get the LAPD to come and train our instructors on their great program.
We use FLETC and i hate it.
I think if you look at most defunding proposals they specify more money to training, less money to equipment and perks.
lol. You can’t defund and “give to training,” gear and equipment breaks and need to be fixed or replaced. Training someone doesnt.
J P that’s why we need to vote in better politicians so unconstitutional laws don’t get put into place. Cops hate those laws and having to enforce them. Outside of those laws officers would like better arrest control training, better deescalation training and better equipment. Not all departments have tasers. My state police only got tasers a couple years ago. I was going through the academy while they were doing their in service training for em.
Tyler M majority of a department’s budget goes towards training.
It wold be great if Jocko could run a campaign for training, educating, and motivating law enforcement. My friend in law enforcement recently told me his salary ($60,000), and I was shocked to hear how low it was considering he's higher ranked and has been with his department for over ten years. It's a very stressful job with low pay and long hours, so I'm sure the motivation would help.
I’m a proponent of a nation wide police standard . Depending on city and department , your PD can be as well trained, in shape, and legal competent as a top tier unit. Other PDs can be filled with whoever applied regardless their condition, had a dad/friend who hired them , comfortable and fat under protection of a union ... Police need better screening and training, and STRICT oversight of corruption and standards.
rob lucyk Cops do get drug tested....
Better training is needed, but take with a grain of salt from a guy who had a team of like 20 guys who get paid to train 95% of the time because they have to be the best of the best
I’d love to see how much time SEALS could work on their craft while spending 8 hours a day jumping calls and listening to people complain about evicting their boyfriend for eating their leftovers, then having to work a second shift outside a bar til 3 am because they get paid $40k a year to risk their life
But NYC whet there are 50 cops within blocks reaction is very different than a sheriff in Montana where the nearest backup could be 20 minutes or more.
How do were have a national standard with thay variety? Gotta have flexibility in approach due to circumstance.
Very few jobs require a year long hiring process consisting of multiple interviews, drug and psych testing, and physical and written testing. The process is fine how it is
Beef Montgomery very few jobs give a person the power a officer has over other people’s lives . Everything from a discretionary arrest to a use of force situation. Anyone should not be giving that power and responsibility.
The additional issue is when you apply the technique to a person who is using heroin and meth together, one of which slows the respiratory system and one increasing, and you restrain them, it accelerates positional asphyxiation. In most of these cases there drugs are present. In addition, if you ever have tried to subdue a person on PCP, good luck.
Great points!
Don’t take meth or a cop is more likely to kill you if ya resist arrest.~ S Brayer
Man I'm a Provincial Correctional Officer in Canada Ontario and this sounds pretty spot in. If an inmate is coming at me I'm doing everything in my power to come out of it safe. I never chocked anyone out but I know people who have and managment seems to be sooommehwat ok with it depending on the situation.
Police departments don't get to decide how much money they get to spend on training/certification. The politicians,,,and by extension you and me (by voting for them and by expressing what we want our tax money spent on) decide that. Up to now nobody was interested in giving PD's more money for OT for training because that meant Tax increases...complaints....fewer votes. Now people want to punish PD's by taking money from them.
Training means officers are not working the street, it means that other officers have to be paid OT to work while others train...or you have to hire more officers and have a cycle of duty/training. It all comes down to $$$
Constitution 101 can be taught online! Also end the failed war on drugs! It’s another failed war.
Like slaps and blackjacks, chokes are a great tool but there are/were officers that abused those tools that caused the tools to be removed.
Good luck trying to get most of those in LE to attend a weekly BJJ/Wrestling class to practice and learn. I know several officers and I have made the offer not a single one took the offer they rather box or practice shooting. Sadly I learned martial arts, originally 30+ yrs ago, from those in LE or ex-LE but there attitude was very different than those I know or meet today.
I had a pretty major incident with a guillotine applied to me about a year and a half ago
It wasnt a matter of not knowing the position, it was just a freak thing. He rotated his wrist to readjust and it crushed my throat, broke the cartilage, immediately felt blood running down he inside as my throat closed.
Luckily I was still able to get some air in but it was like breathing through a straw. Couldnt swallow at all for days as in the muscles just didnt work
To this day I still choke if I drink too fast and have to manually think about swallowing
Also I dont let anyone choke me anymore 😂
Was it a fight for real? Or a consent fight?
@@claudiap.6838 it was training. not even fully live, just drilling
You know it's that funny thing, recieveing all these injuries, sometimes very serious ones preparing for a fight that may never come
Might be better just to take the ass kicking in real life 😅
Less damage in the long run
sirpibble hahahahaha! That’s true.
Jocko ‘s hair never changes
Agree , JJ is more than just chocking, there's a lot of moves to control that can help
The quote that needs to be internalized and acted on for 2020: "Don't be a rabble-rouser"
JediFlavored Soap. Immunity from prosecution. I still can’t understand how that is legal.
Another problem is that state law that comes into play. The wording of how force should be applied by desk joggies in Sacramento who never done the job. I am just an old Matine who calls people on bullshit all the time. No one cares what you think when you are the guy putting in work. All politics and trying protect the salary of the top command staff. I been choked a lot in train ing in the gym. I am still alive. Different choke is the bar arm across the wind pipe. Not a good one.
brother JOCKO... why are you so right, every living american today should be paying attention to this dude!!! as always keep up this awesome podcast JOC God Bless
Man Jocko... you are the best! Keep up the podcasts
I really don’t like the idea of law enforcement especially police thinking themselves as warriors. If they mainly interact with members of their community as if they’re the enemy then how can we encourage conflict resolution?
Law enforcement thinking of themselves as warriors is generally more of a "warrior in the garden" scenario, where when conflict comes along, the warrior is far more confident and competent than the gardener, but both are just fine in the garden. Most of these situations where someone is shot and killed by police are due to lack of confidence because of poor training. Let police have the training of warriors and they will be much more physically and mentally tough, which will help them refrain from making poor decisions in the field.
@Joshua Harper no sane individual wants defunding....but if that's what they want🤷🏼♂️🇺🇸💪
Escalation of Force, and the Spirit of the Law - are ideals that are within everyone and so it does take training and discipline to hone those ideals into tools that are capable of being used in various capacities based on context.
&guy
Bottom line is, if you don’t want to change from a warrior mentality to a guardian, quit, because you aren’t what society needs or wants.
"No one loves a warrior until the enemy is at the gates." The warrior mindset/mentality is necessary to get through critical events a LEO faces. Embracing this mentality doesn't mean you can't ALSO be a guardian.
You both are awesome. Great discussion regarding this most relevant topic.
Jocko for president!!
Warriors fight wars am i wrong ? Let me know.
@Craig Scott its not though is it? Its not a war zone like say real war zones e.g. Iraq and Afghanistan.
Olbap Rabocse You’re more likely to die in Chicago than Iraq
Nice video Jocko. Fair winds and following seas shipmate.
Uuuh just me but in that question he called police officers “warriors”. Bro you’re not warriors you’re literally guardians not warriors, shows a lot about police mentality
You can be a guardian by being a warrior. Synonymous I believe. The focus needs to be on who you are battling.
How can a guardian whos not a warrior protect anything? Distinction between the sheepdog and the wolf see,s relevant here,
I agree with you all a guardian must be able to protect. All I’m saying is especially in today’s climate where everyone is so sensitive police officers calling themselves warriors could be completely taken the wrong way. It’s a fine line that has to be walked and I definitely don’t have the answers
It takes a good warrior to be a guardian. You can't protect people if you are weak yourself.
I'd say it depends on the training. The department down in Hawaii trained in the VNR Ventricular Neck Restraint. It was a requirement to be put out and put others out in live scenarios. I don't know about other departments though.
As a BJJ purple belt, that sounds like poor training to me. A choke is always a choke and never a restraint. A person who has no techniques to control positional dominance has no business applying a choke.
4:25 to "...results to more men on your squad getting hurt".
mostly attritional combat.
Police don't die as often, so everyone develops long family friends. as Willink says"I have my own team."
This cop sees himself as a warrior, but refuses the accountability and constant training required of that role.
Got a war mindset but not at war
The only part I found myself being skeptical about was around 4:12 when the letter says that officers are no longer trained to be warriors but guardians (I personally don’t see the problem with that shift; officers aren’t soldiers, and guardian, while sounding quite grandiose, does better resemble the role of “protect and serve” that’s traditionally affiliated with law enforcement), and that as a consequence, this will directly result in an increase in use of deadly force...I just don’t see how the one leads to the other. The rest of the critique was sensible, but I wasn’t able to wrap my head around that train of thought. Any ideas?
Can we include a more hierarchical set of tools in the discussion too and look to de-escalating too? This conversation didn't even touch on verbal controls not just physical control.
And how to ensure incorrectly applied is tackled.
Maybe use the same idea as tasers, each officer takes jujitsu training and is choked out himself/herself and practices that move often. Even then becomes "certified" by trainer or superior, maybe both to insure proper implementation of the choke hold and thereby "trust" can be formed between chief and officers.
Only you can learn to use a taser properly in a day. I’m all for officers being at least a blue belt level, but even that would take a far greater individual commitment to training beyond the current program for police training.
using the banning of choke holds to explain away quite a bit of police corruption/brutality/incompetence ain’t it, sir. especially for Rodney King.
alas, you definitely have a point with the effectiveness of it when proper training is done, and how it sounds scarier than it actually is-again, when done correctly. as well as how in response you step up and do the research and work yourself to see to it that the needed change does happen.
I don’t think he was trying to explain it away.
Its not just the chokehold. Various other policy decisions morons want to enact to “FiGhT CoRrUPtIoN” would have the opposite effect, and would make officers more beholden to each other as well as incentivize cover ups.
Wow, from episode #19. Those were the days. Wisdom does not have a sell buy date.
Perhaps as a compromise they could treat choke holds like they do tasers where only officers that have been trained how to do it are allowed to use it at there discretion. Everyone else as self defense but ideally you would just train everyone to know how to do it. And have refreshers and some tests.
That's how it was before... cops don't do things they aren't trained to do unless it's an absolute last resort. It's not legally defensible in court to be untrained and use a tactic without some exigent circumstance.
I love the fact that Jocko points out that it's the person, not necessarily the tools. Whether it's a choke hold, a baton or a gun, it's the person applying it. I agree with Jocko here, despite the fact that I also believe there is a systemic problem with police (who I admire and respect as much as vets). I think 2 things would vastly improve the situation - more (and more consistent) training for officers so they are not "hijacked" when they get into a physical confrontation, and a much more stringent hiring system. Oversight is, of course, implicit. Then the police can do their job, keep both themselves and their communities safe and go home. The "bad apple" defense is a obviation of responsibility. The other thing Jocko nails is leadership. Leadership should have integrity. Believing and supporting your team doesn't mean turning a blind eye to breakdowns, but it does mean making sure they have the ability to do the job. We gotta stop thinking in 1's and 0's. Look for the middle ground where things actually get done. Peace!
One problem I have with your formulation: When you say "keep both themselves and their communities safe" I assume you include the dude that is actively trying to harm the police. This to me, is a mental divide. There is no "safe" way to grab a police officer, try to snatch their gun and tell her that you are going to kill them. Nor is there a safe way to punch a police officer in the face and then attempt to mount them. Nor is there a "safe" way to wave a blade at the police and then charge them. By all means, advocate for training. By all means, advocate for strict hiring standards. At the same time understand, at SOME point the training concludes and you actually have to put them to work in an environment that is real. Where there is no referee to stop the action, nor any training instructor to adjust the hold and there is no ring, no rules and no quarter. Multiply that environment by tens of thousands of lethal and near lethal encounters in ultra dynamic fights to the death (for some suspects that is the goal) and you complicate the cool formulations of the detached . Also understand, you have to make your choices from those that are willing to show up and sign the dotted line. Thats your pool. Not some theoretical world where everyone is a combination of Ghandi, John Wick and Roger Gracie. Once you understand and accept that, you can begin to make decisions because I promise you the calls will not stop coming while you build your army of ideals.
@@sultantouma5437 Not sure I see the disconnect. I agree. Life is not utopia, nor is it theoretical or ideological. The very examples you bring up, are the ones that beg for training. Maybe you think I'm talking about "sensitivity training"? I assure you, I'm not. I'm talking about the kind of training that allows people who are in harms way to maintain mental control in threatening situations. Most police receive about 4hrs per year. They should be getting 4 hours per week. I'd be happy if every officer was a BJJ belt. Notice I didn't say they shouldn't use choke holds or deadly force for that matter. If ideology doesn't translate into real world application, it's horseshit, on that we both seem to agree. And "army of ideals" is only so good as its application. Otherwise it's simply a waste of time. Peace....
@@cjbarna You are not wrong. I'd be happy if that were implemented. I'd bitch about it now and then to my dog but things would be a great deal better.
Video of the Day! Thanks Jocko!
I know you touched on it briefly, but it makes total sense that someone in combat is going to respond to a known threat more aggressively than they'd respond to two women cowering in the corner with their children. On the other hand, it seems like in a lot of the more recent situations in our country, there's a mismatch in how the responding officers view the person they approach.
When you respond to a call from a mom who's worried about her autistic teenaged son having a breakdown, you're going to react completely differently if you decide he's a dangerous bad guy on a mission to kill other people vs a scared kid struggling to process overwhelming sensory information. If he's an enemy, yeah, taking him out is safest. But what if he's a civilian who's just in over his head? Recognizing the differences can be a matter of life and death no matter which one is true.
Am I crazy to think that sending social workers and EMTs to respond to similar calls would likely lead to fewer violent situations? And also let the police focus on doing the serious stuff they trained for?
Warrior mindset other than a guardian mentality dont make sense to me they aint warriors they enforce the law and serve the general public
Get out of here with this nonsense
@@everett1115 you get on here just to try to ruin peoples opinions and the truth which is police arnt soldiers its called public policing so you get out of here
it makes no difference...if you are really honest about it
@@NewsChannel-y4g well in my opinion and as far as my logic can bring me it does cops that have a warrior mentality seems to be the issue rate now because they aren't going out in the streets everyday to fight like soldiers do they get paid to serve and protect and uphold the law
Cops are warriors, they have to routinely fight violent criminals
Interesting a very stoic mindset by joko. Just focus on what you can control and don't worry about what's not in your power to change and outside factors.
If I have to do a job that sucks for three years before there is change I will just leave especially if your out numbered. Why risk your mental health? At the end of the day Cop's need to change their tactics and entire way of dealing with most of their response to calls.
Jocko talks...I shut up and I listen. I don't just hear
thats awesome
Same
Listening is a skill that is rarely used. An example is the subject being discussed. Those that are in power to make changes have no interest in listening to solutions.
Retired LEO here. Unfortunately Politicians have no interest in facts and statistics. The grunt on the street is fucked in the current environment. This goes back a decade or more.
Who could possibly dislike this video. This knowledge applies everywhere. If Jocko says something you don’t like, your obviously part of the problem.
Not sure why they are training people in the academy to be "warriors", and why there is an issue with being "just guardians". Police aren't suppose to be waging war against their populace, they are suppose to be "protecting and serving" that populace. If a police officer wants to be warrior, join (or rejoin) the military.
God I wish I could give you multiple thumbs up for this statement!
My concern with an officer trying to subdue a suspect with a choke hold, is that the suspect would be in arms reach of the officers firearm. The officer leaves himself vulnerable to being shot with his own weapon. If a suspect is being combative, it would seem logical to me that the officer would keep his distance and deploy a tazer or pepper spray until the suspect was subdued.
My point is that choking a suspect with a firearm on your hip will increase the chances that this will be a fatal encounter for the officer.
Choked out the drunk cousin with the Homer Simpson technique.
"Why you little!"
The only thing I would add considering the police are a public service. You absolutely need to have the public on your side and the best way to do this is to know your neighborhood not just the buildings and streets know the people say hi have a conversation that's not job related.
Love ya Jocko! Keep up the great work! 🙏🏽
You guys should really have Sebastian Junger on. He would be really interesting since he is a reporter but has gone on multiple deployments.
JOCKO FOR PRESIDENT 🇺🇸
Completely agree about chokeholds being a better option than striking or shooting.
Now, the guy complaining that the department doesn’t want them to call themselves warriors. Absolutely, the cops are not supposed to be warriors. If you wanna call yourself a warrior, join the military.
Warriors are trained to kill their enemy. Guardians are there to protect.
Good Afternoon, I want to first say that I am a huge digester of your content and I push it on people as often as possible. After all you get one free book with audible and "Extreme Ownership" is the best use of that by far. I am currently reading Call sign chaos by Jim Mattis. Some of these cases of wrongful use of force remind me of Haditha. The problem could be solved if it was handled by the chain of command. When a "bad apple" takes a course of action that is not in alignment with the way the police force wants to be seen by the people they police, they should be rightfully condemned and the leadership of the police force whom by their career should also be community leaders and not simply leaders of the police force should publicly let it be known that those actions go against the commanders intent. People naturally want to support the police. I am a black USMC veteran and I remember how often I heard the term "police your own" which meant to me that you keep your peers in check and keep a diligent eye on them to ensure they do not sway from the path and do not bring dishonor to the Corps. In these situations, there is no accountability being taken by police. Is it too much to expect extreme ownership in the police force? Also to me it seems that civilians are being held to a higher standard than those who took an oath by those who took an oath. I do not believe in defunding the police. I was happy to see your views align with mine on that matter when you addressed it with Joe Rogan. Police have to take own the fact that you are leaders in our community and you hold us to a standard. We also hold you to a standard and we expect you to "Police your own". The example that comes to my mind when it comes to police accountability and how the community sees it. If you did that instead of always drawing that thin blue line between us we would love you as we should. If there are 5 cops in a video and one of the cops is beating a man face down in handcuffs, %100 percent of the cops in the video are wrong and have forgotten the oath they took. I understand that the media plays its part in twisting stories and cases but many of these things are caught on video and nothing is done until the public or the media calls attention to it. Yes, when a cop tells you to do something you should do it, but if my people don't trust the police and feel they do not live up to their oath, they will be reluctant to keep quiet if they feel their rights are being violated. Even something as simple as "can I see Id?" becomes a problem in a toxic relationship. Who has to take ownership of that relationship? Who has to lead? Whos responsible? As a civilian, I do not have a chain of command and if I did it would probably start and end with the police force if they garnered that trust.
-Semper Fidelis & Black Lives Matter
When I worked at the police dept. They had us train in defensive tactics. It has take downs, arm locks, wrist locks, and Etc. I believe they need to bring that back to the depts. and work on those moves regularly.
I work in law enforcement currently and that stuff never went away. Wtf are you talking about
@@dakotasteele8546 This.
My department does DT twice a year. Not great, but better than those which only ever do it once a year.
Whiskey's Gaming Lounge unfortunately mine only does once a year. But we shoot monthly and sometimes twice a month. We need to increase our DTs. I’ve started taking jiu jistu in my free time to compensate.
Jocko and Ant middleton podcast?
I agree that choke holds and jiu jitsu or grappling have a place as a tool in LE. Keep in mind though that non compliant subjects are often not in grappling shape and may have underlying health issues that make a choke likely to induce a life threatening result. Asthma, COPD, obesity and various arrhythmia's come to mind. All types of people resist control even to their own detriment. Secondly, it isn't always beneficial for a solo officer to go to ground with someone. An officer trying to effect an arrest solo or even with a partner might want to remain upright to they can better react to a new threat such as a crowd or other people interfering with the arrest. You could have total control of someone on the ground but youre going to have to give it up the second someone starts hittiw you or kicking you from behind. I am by no means an expert it is just my opinion that grappling is a great tool in certain circumstances but so are other less than lethal tools
It'd be interesting to see what Jocko's thoughts are on cops who routinely use excessive-force and no one one calls them out for fear of the force? How do you deal with that? Seems to be at the heart of the issue with bad policing. Cops who won't get back-up if they call other cops out. What sort of game do you play then?
Anyone who watchs MMA we see chokes 24/7 nobody is dying lol
Steven Kane Yea well there’s a referee that steps in.How many times have you seen a cop step in and stop another cop from going too far?
There is a difference between choking someone who is ready for a fight and in good condition versus someone who is poorly exercised, possibly have a health condition, or have dangerous amounts of drugs in their system.
SugarSmear if you’re talking about George Floyd, I’ve never seen someone be choked out from the back of their neck.
Mike Floyd wasn’t technically choked.He died from asphyxiation.His breathing was restricted for an extended amount of time until he lost consciousness and his brain and vital organs shutdown.
Brooklynballa I’m pretty sure the reduced blood flow was due to the drug overdose. Evidence was him complaining of being short of breath while he was sitting inside the police car, before he was put on the floor.
For the record, I don’t think kneeling on him for
7 min was justified. It’s just that in this hyper political atmosphere, being factually correct is very important.
jujitsu or even wrestling would help alot in policing,but we also need mental training for them to actually care about who they're trying to subdue.
Yes I believe we need to not only provide greater mental training on things such as shoot don’t shoot simulators but also better mental health care as officers are out there seeing the worst humanity has to offer day after day
Standardized and rigorous training would go a long ways in eliminating the gray areas. But no matter what you’ll always have dumb people that do dumb things and think they shouldn’t be held accountable for it. That streets runs two ways.
The problem is that police have very few tools given them. They can either taze, tackle, or shoot. BJJ is a perfect bridge and the gracies even made a course to handcuff without having to choke if optics are an issue.
NYC city council just passed a law that prohibits cops fom putting any pressue on the chest or back of a resisting person. using full mount, back mount and side control is now an arrestable offense to cops. It's insanity....
Violence should be answered with violence 10 fold.
Alright... Just to be clear with what I meant. First... A choke can kill, very difficult. Second, a choke submits and it is up to the submitter what to do from there.
Have you ever choked anyone? Do you understand human anatomy? You would have to hold a choke for several minutes to kill someone.
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 Of course silly goose. This is what I am saying to the other ignorant folks.
Simple Fly Ah. I saw it amongst the general comments so I thought it was a stand-alone thought.
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 Too many people don't know combat and tactics.
Simple Fly True.
There is a big difference between a use of force and training in a dojo. Jujitsu is good but you can't always go to the ground. And a lot of time there are alot of people around you and most of the time they are not on your side. Its easy for people to sit back and make comments without ever doing the job.
Dudes been to war lol, I think he's seen and done more than that of any officer.
As more police departments move towards community policing versus the traditional model of policing, they are going to see themselves more as guardians than warriors. This warrior mindset you see within police, is a mindset a lot of departments are trying to get away from because it does not help cultivate an environment where an officer can effectively engage the public like they need to within a community policing approach. It is a mindset that approaches almost every scenario as if the people of the community are a threat to the police. That is why the warrior mentality is being left behind by so many police departments. To be candid, this officer just seems to be a person that can't or won't get on board with the tenets of community policing. If that's the case, he needs to find work in another department or another line of work that is more compatible with what he would like to do. I would also say that this officer needs to try and see what the police department leadership is going before saying they are wrong with trying to develop a different mentality and culture than was there before.
"Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war."
@@kaj4life1 That's the problem we have with policing now a days. With the war on drugs and war on crime, we have developed a mentality that policing is war and as such police need to militarize themselves so they can be effective. The problem with that is that when police militarize themselves they quickly lose their ability to effectively engage with the communities they are sworn to protect on a continual basis. When police militarize themselves to an extreme extent, community citizens will not want to talk to them. Community members will instead avoid or, worse, grow resentful of the police. Neither outcome is good.
@@theman03able Even in the military, there's community outreach. An essential part of counterinsurgency is building a relationship with the locals.