I have literally never used F2 in my entire experience with Starcraft, I always slap my army on a hotkey so I can keep important parts of my army home while I micro with a trillion Zerglings
@@iamlordstarbuilder5595 that's likely cuz you started playing StarCraft before Heart of the Swarm was released.p Plus if you are a Zerg player, F2 will not select the queens making it less efficient
@Zerk easy solution to all your drone problems STEP ONE spawn 5 queens STEP TWO spam spawn larvae on different hatcheries for maximum efficiency but it still works with just one STEP THREE watch as all of a sudden you seem to have... 50 larvae what a odd coincidence, am i right?
@@tallzombie12345 yeah but you also need to have a bunch of extra binds and apm compared to protoss or terran(because i was a zerg fan, that problem was why i quit sc2, when you need more apm to do the same as someone with less, they will eventually pull ahead if they are matching your apm).
@@fenrirjk6496 Well maybe not 24000 but I saw a Zerg in proplay get a 7800 apm moment. I believe it was in Lowko's video, early game draw or something like that. I'm sure that's not even close to the usual highest.
@@xMetix123 i remind you that there is APM and EAPM, later being effective Actions per minute. (Apm: Overlord move command +Overlord Move command = 2 actions: Eapm: 1 action.) Also, the peak zerg players like Serral or Reynor get like 300-400+ APM average Edit: also pro player and Lowko doesnt go too well in 1 sentence LMAO
Except the first guy is literally how you have to play SC1, due to no F2 (hell even SC2 didn't get this until HotS), and only 12 units per hotkey group. SC1 zerg was an exercise in having a seizure on your keyboard haha.
It’s really accurate how you need quadruple the APM spam on sc1 to do even the most basic action compared to sc2, imho BW balances himself because you have overall limited control (unit selection and poor path finding for example) over everything especially big armies which automatically cuts off deathballs, on the other hand sc2 hands you super smooth control over everything, which encourages deathballs but also creativity and overall more micro potential if compared to BW
I believe a big contributor to SC2's deathballs is the perfect pathing. Even ifbyou could select every unut in BW and A move, they would still jitter and spread out and be a general pain in the ass. By the time they actually reach an enemy army, they'd be spread out and trickling in one small clump at a time, making them easy pickings. There's also more varied unit speeds. Vultures outpace tanks, so if you A move them, they can get picked off by harrass. Starbow is kinda dead, but the SC2 mod showed that by just making the units a little worse at walking, more prone to spreading out and jamming at choke points, along with the return of high ground advantage, you can encourage more sprawled out, across the map battles. Holding a forward position becomes important even when behind, because high ground and chokes gives you a chance to delay them. More small scale skirmishes, because spread out armies have lower DPS density, making poking the edges safer.
Yeah I like bw more because sc2 holds your hand a little too much for my liking. Controlling a hundred units in bw with spell casters included flawlessly feels much more rewarding than pressing f2, A, and then tabbing your way through unit types.
As someone who dabble in the RTS genre, I hold deep respect for any SC1/old-RTS players. That 6 unit limit selection alone makes me feel the creeps. Edit: 12, mistake was made
It's not that bad, 12 units in sc2 is nothing but 12 units in sc1 is already a lot. u use armies around 30-40 units most of the time. And you should group them anyway.
SC3 be like: You run the game > You press "Win the game" button > You watch your units go build a base, expand, etc, and they themselves devastate your opponent In multiplayer you'll have 50% loses though, but at least it will be perfectly balanced, finally
Actually, it will be automated and when you are losing, you just do some in game micro transaction for easy win. When you have pay more to win games, live.
@@acidosis1985: so who's better at micro[-transactions], wins? Seems like a good idea, almost like the old spirit of old blizz! Micro -> Win. And those micro-transactions should be done via battlenet mobile app, right? Don't the guys have phones? I guess everybody has phones, so everyone should like this idea!
The first guy is as you can CLEARLY HEAR jacking it madly under the table because he knows hes gonna fly over to the enemy base soon with an arbitor and recall an invisible army winning instantly. The second guy is def a zerg player making more roaches. trust me im a silver league pro gamer with at least 60apm sometimes.
whenever I watch the replay to figure out what I'm doing wrong and what the other player is doing right, all I ever see is that the reason their APM is so high is because they have a worker unit not doing anything other than moving in circles while they wait to get the minerals to do the next thing they wanna do. Also I'm garbage at melee so my APM is like 30 at best, compared to these assholes with like 270 with their workers going in circles
Haha, I mean 30 is quite low but you can still have fun, find some other people around that speed and you can have fun games. 250-400apm is usually a bit inflated except at pro level. 80apm to 130apm is starting to play fast but not that good at the interface yet, 150-200 if you're comfortable and relaxed is a nice speed to play good games, you're more held back by game knowledge and decision making at that speed. Less than 100 though and you are a bit held back by speed. 1st Tsunami had around 80apm and he was really good, but that was in 1999 lol. Fisheye was famously around 130apm and was very good I guess around 2005 or so, but he played Protoss. Once you get good at the interface it will feel awkward and difficult to try to play at lower apm, basically it's all about hotkeys and not using the mouse for everything, but also right clicking a lot to fix weird pathing so units that bump off each other dont wander around too long.
@@CaptainWumbo My main issue with SC1 tbh is that the hotkeys are just all over the goddamn keyboard instead close to where my left hand would be at rest. I feel like I'd move much quicker with better hot keys
This just made me realize something: F2 selecting the whole army might be one of the biggest reasons I feel like SC2 is one of my favorite rts games because I don't need to set several control groups to control my army. That and all the graphical improvements and the ability to have more than 12 units selected at once.
@@IceCubeNETWORK873 Not really, no. Pro Brood War and Starcraft 2 players generally have similar APM. But Brood war is more mechanically demanding. Simply because of design choices like having to micro each new worker built, 12 units per ctrl group, no selecting multiple buildings, etc. You can play SC2 at a high level with less APM, but not at the top. At the top, people still have really high APM. Go watch Serral/Reynor/Maru/etc play SC2 and compare it to BW pros, maybe excluding the God himself, Flash, since he is on another level entirely, going deep in to ASL as random.
@@snowdrop9810 I don't know his exact APM, and he might not have the highest. But he is the most mechanically sound player that has ever played Starcraft. And he's also the smartest to be honest. He understands the game better than anyone, and can even execute builds that nobody else can actually do because of his understanding combined with his mechanical consistency. He's so good that he made it very deep in to ASL while playing random. This is literally unheard of, and I think would be impossible for anyone else. Few people can make it that deep with a single race, and to my knowledge, nobody has ever even qualified for ASL with random, let alone made it to the semifinals. And people are better at the game than ever today. Doing it now is more impressive than any other time. He has pretty much cemented himself as the most legendary e sports player in history.
I'm pretty surprised there are people who still belove StarCraft (1 & 2) and make jokes and memes about the game 😅👌🏽. Thank you very muc, Executor Nral, for making memes of these games 👏🏽😄, which many people make fun of saying that they are dead 😔. Everyone, take care and GL HF!! 🖥️⌨️🖱️ 😄👍🏽.
Tbh, both SC1 and SC2 are freaking hard games, it takes long time of skill training to actually started having fun. I once tried to get a LOL player to play Sc2, he just gave up.
@@Edgariki Yeah for beginners, but it's going to be very boring if you go with the same tactic each time. If you want to have some fun with Protoss, you'd need some micro. At least some prism juggling.
@@edwardsong5199 You just didnt try to play much i think, its actually hilarious how simple are they. Even on master-diamond some players can have 80+- APM when playing with protoss and rarely going to 160-180 in battles.
that's part of the joke: protoss was the "A-move race" in 1 too. though unlike in 2 they actually _were_ imba as a result: 2 is balanced around that last 1% or so of the skillbase and a theoretical skill _cap_ which can make the races more than a little imbalanced for 99+% of the playerbase but there _is_ a visible skill cap in most situations meanwhile back in 1 there are just so MANY tiny little things that you can be doing on any given frame to improve your situation that the game literally can not accept commands fast enough to split your initial 4 workers perfectly and as a result even someone like Flash or Boxxor was only barely playing the game. the unit's numbers kinda matter a bit but in the end the balance of the game is all about how much benefit the player can get from applying their attention and at the end of the day protoss just had less buttons to press to do a few equivalent things and more ways to force their opponents to have to press more buttons, even the brokenness that is the defiler did not even that equation out.
The theoretical skill cap for SC2 has not been reached, or even sniffed at by regular humans. If we were anywhere near there protoss would crush every tournament because Blink Stalkers with perfect control are completely broken. The top SC2 AIs (or just pros playing on a slower speed) really show off how much more combat could be optimized. A-moving is enough to win most of the time but it's not because a-moving is optimal, it's because having finer control without sacrificing too much in other areas is really, really hard. What's really going on is that SC2 has a lower skill floor than Brood War because of the QoL changes. The ceiling in both games is infinitely high as far as humans are concerned.
@@MainTopmastStaysail there are plenty of interactions in 2 where you really can play perfectly or at least close enough to it meanwhile even something as simple as telling a worker to mine or a marine to shoot a zergling has meaningful optimization that can come from additional attention from the player. both games are set up for how you focus your efforts to be just as important as how much effort you are putting in it just gets far FAR more pronounced and visible in 1.
A perfect example of all the conveniences and mechanical improvements that SC2 has over 1. Which it should, since SC2 came out ten years after 1. If it didn't have such improvements, the game would honestly be a big disappointment. But for people saying that F2+A move encourages death balls... sure it does, at lower levels. But really good SC2 players, pros and competition players, they use hotkeys to make different groupings. So one army attacks one location while others move elsewhere.
You’re in denial. SC2 is a much more easy Game to play. Having the whole production in one control… having drons with set rally point at minerals… I simply go on atack and produce with the proper set rally point Both economy and army without loking and just continue to micro.
You should have to solve a 6x6 sudoku to issue a build command, recite the alphabet backwards to use control groups, and play with oven mitts on. Really up the skill cap.
Like someone said on another Starcraft video many years ago: SC1 is like playing chess, SC2 is like checkers. The difference between these two games is night and day.
Captain here : SC1: no all army hoy key. No group select four buildings. Can only select 12 units at a time. Different unit types have to be hotkeyed individually for spell casting. All units must be constantly reminded where to go because pathing system sucks and units will randomly walk in arbitrary directions if they bump into each other. Only like 3 camera hot keys available. SC2: group hot keying buildings and unlimited group sizes for units. You can hit tab on your keyboard to cycle between the different sets of skills in a group of multiple unit types. Some skills auto-cast Basically you can accomplish 90% of stuff almost without using your mouse. Maps can be huge and units walk speed is kinda slow. Everybody freaks out about apm and micro and streamers and players just click buttons like crazy to make it look like they are better than they actually are.
well activision, its digital cancer, sc will never be good without the original creators/owners who actually cared about their game. now its an unbalanced skin selling festival of shit.
I often argue that SC1 is not a strategy game but a clicking contest pretending to be a strategy game. The mechanical requirements much higher which is not inherenty wrong just know what the game is about.
I say this as someone who's loved games like SC1, WC3, and C&C since I was a kid... The term "strategy" is false advertisement most of the time. Clicking contests and micromanagement fests are not strategy. If you want actual strategy play Total War. Preferably Medieval 2.
I played enough SC, WC3 and WoW to learn that keybinds and key shortcuts = optmization. Now, as an editor, I make videos like I played'em games, typing the crap out of it until the sun sets.
oh NO a game has more advanced pathfinding, therefore making it a 10000% better experience, but allows people to actually control their army? its almost like they dont want us to have to intensely micro 24 units bc they cant walk in a straight line
@@joaopadua7134 my point precisely. Starcraft optimised casual fun out of the game and now only the competitive crowd is left. If you want to play the game casually you're stuck with singleplayer.
to be honest, in both games armies can be micro'ed godly.. warp prism juggling 2 immortals on the level of Has is just as impressive to me as bisu's dragoon handling (especially vs widowmines).. i think the biggest difference is managing your base + pathing.. QOL stuff like showing idle workers or bigger groups than 16 is such a benefit.
thats more a effect of the macro being easier to execute in SC2 aka no clicking on each buildingnot needing to a move 6 times to get your army around stuff like that and i mean SC1 Pros also hover between 350-450 and we dont really have holding down keys as a feature
My dad is a super pro in sc1 i remembered but now with sc2 he aint know anything its too advanced for him and i proceeded to download sc1 remastered and he liked it
"Yes, I micro my heart out!"
*F2 Intensifies*
I have literally never used F2 in my entire experience with Starcraft, I always slap my army on a hotkey so I can keep important parts of my army home while I micro with a trillion Zerglings
I tried to learn to do all that stuff, but really who cares how you play offline. Just learning the basic stuff was fine with me.
@@-ShiraZen- I myself didn’t even know what F2 was until I heard Lowko making a self-deprecating joke about how he’s a poseur for using it
i rebound army to space. f2 too far
@@iamlordstarbuilder5595 that's likely cuz you started playing StarCraft before Heart of the Swarm was released.p
Plus if you are a Zerg player, F2 will not select the queens making it less efficient
jokes on you, i'm terrible at both
That profile picture says it all
Same
Same
Clearly, Buggy failed us. I must not (but I will, though, 'cause I am bad at both of these games). 😄 My *tactics* are *HERESY*
And then there's the Zerg player, having 11 simultaneous seizures and still struggling to use all his minerals.
@Zerk easy solution to all your drone problems
STEP ONE
spawn 5 queens
STEP TWO
spam spawn larvae on different hatcheries for maximum efficiency but it still works with just one
STEP THREE
watch as all of a sudden you seem to have... 50 larvae
what a odd coincidence, am i right?
@Zerk build 50 hatcheries
the ultimate counter to anything but a actual plan
thats me bro
@@tallzombie12345 yeah but you also need to have a bunch of extra binds and apm compared to protoss or terran(because i was a zerg fan, that problem was why i quit sc2, when you need more apm to do the same as someone with less, they will eventually pull ahead if they are matching your apm).
@@laughingalex7563 Idk, Terran bio takes more APM than anything else in the game pretty much
meanwhile me, a noob at BW:
- has an air unit or two
- makes the whole army follow the air unit(s)
- (happy a-move noises)
brilliant
Wait a minute...
Wait...
oh yes, thats literally how I played both Brood War and Warcraft 3 as a kid :D
DIE OVERLORDS
(A-move with zealots)
DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey, as a SC2 Zerg I can say I press at least 400 buttons every second... even if it is just technically holding down Z or D.
every Minute ^^
@@fenrirjk6496 you heard the man, 400 buttons a second
@@ramsbottom4745 youre telling me he is the legendary 24000 apm guy? damn, he must really suck if he cant go into pro play with that
@@fenrirjk6496 Well maybe not 24000 but I saw a Zerg in proplay get a 7800 apm moment. I believe it was in Lowko's video, early game draw or something like that. I'm sure that's not even close to the usual highest.
@@xMetix123 i remind you that there is APM and EAPM, later being effective Actions per minute. (Apm: Overlord move command +Overlord Move command = 2 actions: Eapm: 1 action.)
Also, the peak zerg players like Serral or Reynor get like 300-400+ APM average
Edit: also pro player and Lowko doesnt go too well in 1 sentence LMAO
avarage 69 army hotkey tryhard micro fan
vs
f2+a move enjoyer
my sides left orbit
Except the first guy is literally how you have to play SC1, due to no F2 (hell even SC2 didn't get this until HotS), and only 12 units per hotkey group. SC1 zerg was an exercise in having a seizure on your keyboard haha.
xD
I lost my hearing but it was worth it
Perhaps.
For we are bound by the F2, the secret union of our every thought and emotion
Ah... if I hadn’t just played the campaign I wouldn’t have gotten that reference...
Amon has corrupted the hotkeys! The F2 button chains you to his will!
My life for macros
I put my select all army on the side button of my mouse. Needless to say my mmr is about as micro as it gets.
It’s really accurate how you need quadruple the APM spam on sc1 to do even the most basic action compared to sc2, imho BW balances himself because you have overall limited control (unit selection and poor path finding for example) over everything especially big armies which automatically cuts off deathballs, on the other hand sc2 hands you super smooth control over everything, which encourages deathballs but also creativity and overall more micro potential if compared to BW
On the contrary, having multiples ctr-groups encourage to micro and use tactics, and deathballs encourage to A-move.
I believe a big contributor to SC2's deathballs is the perfect pathing. Even ifbyou could select every unut in BW and A move, they would still jitter and spread out and be a general pain in the ass. By the time they actually reach an enemy army, they'd be spread out and trickling in one small clump at a time, making them easy pickings. There's also more varied unit speeds. Vultures outpace tanks, so if you A move them, they can get picked off by harrass.
Starbow is kinda dead, but the SC2 mod showed that by just making the units a little worse at walking, more prone to spreading out and jamming at choke points, along with the return of high ground advantage, you can encourage more sprawled out, across the map battles. Holding a forward position becomes important even when behind, because high ground and chokes gives you a chance to delay them. More small scale skirmishes, because spread out armies have lower DPS density, making poking the edges safer.
Yeah I like bw more because sc2 holds your hand a little too much for my liking.
Controlling a hundred units in bw with spell casters included flawlessly feels much more rewarding than pressing f2, A, and then tabbing your way through unit types.
@@lotgc It's more quality of life then hand holding, in fact F2 your whole army is considered a very bad habit on sc2, especially at high leagues
@@Defileros Gets you absolutely demolished by someone who can split their army up even a little.
As someone who dabble in the RTS genre, I hold deep respect for any SC1/old-RTS players. That 6 unit limit selection alone makes me feel the creeps.
Edit: 12, mistake was made
brood war has 12 unit selection and sc64 had 18 funnily enough lol
It's not that bad, 12 units in sc2 is nothing but 12 units in sc1 is already a lot.
u use armies around 30-40 units most of the time. And you should group them anyway.
Just found this channel yesterday, I'm already subscribed and am on a binge fest of all the videos. Thank you
Welcome aboard, young Templar
Using Alpacahaw's Matrix YTP... You are truly a man of culture, sir
"You have problems, Mr. Anderson"
SC1: get a stroke, a seizure and a heart attack after you make one mistake in micro
SC2: Therapeutic blob manager
SC3 be like:
You run the game > You press "Win the game" button > You watch your units go build a base, expand, etc, and they themselves devastate your opponent
In multiplayer you'll have 50% loses though, but at least it will be perfectly balanced, finally
We'll call it Starcraft: Immortal and charge 1.49 BlizzardBucks to press the Win the Game button
That mechanic fits perfectly and terrifingly for a bad mobile game.
It will be a mobile game, don't you guy have phönes?
Actually, it will be automated and when you are losing, you just do some in game micro transaction for easy win. When you have pay more to win games, live.
@@acidosis1985: so who's better at micro[-transactions], wins? Seems like a good idea, almost like the old spirit of old blizz! Micro -> Win. And those micro-transactions should be done via battlenet mobile app, right? Don't the guys have phones? I guess everybody has phones, so everyone should like this idea!
The first guy is as you can CLEARLY HEAR jacking it madly under the table because he knows hes gonna fly over to the enemy base soon with an arbitor and recall an invisible army winning instantly.
The second guy is def a zerg player making more roaches. trust me im a silver league pro gamer with at least 60apm sometimes.
Don’t ask how I got gold league with my 30 apm
@@keisufederationmapping2748 How?
@@LeoInvictus I have no idea
The SC2 player made a really good beat ngl. Someone remix that.
It’s actually taken from a YTP called “The Matrix Uploaded”
@@iamlordstarbuilder5595 Nice
my rhymes are fly, my beats are sick...
as always, the executor does a great job on making me laugh
whenever I watch the replay to figure out what I'm doing wrong and what the other player is doing right, all I ever see is that the reason their APM is so high is because they have a worker unit not doing anything other than moving in circles while they wait to get the minerals to do the next thing they wanna do.
Also I'm garbage at melee so my APM is like 30 at best, compared to these assholes with like 270 with their workers going in circles
They just attack move like 50 times on the same fucking spot Idgi
I just played a round of melee against a bot in SC:R. My APM was 31 -- I'm getting better!
Good job :)
Haha, I mean 30 is quite low but you can still have fun, find some other people around that speed and you can have fun games.
250-400apm is usually a bit inflated except at pro level. 80apm to 130apm is starting to play fast but not that good at the interface yet, 150-200 if you're comfortable and relaxed is a nice speed to play good games, you're more held back by game knowledge and decision making at that speed. Less than 100 though and you are a bit held back by speed. 1st Tsunami had around 80apm and he was really good, but that was in 1999 lol. Fisheye was famously around 130apm and was very good I guess around 2005 or so, but he played Protoss.
Once you get good at the interface it will feel awkward and difficult to try to play at lower apm, basically it's all about hotkeys and not using the mouse for everything, but also right clicking a lot to fix weird pathing so units that bump off each other dont wander around too long.
@@CaptainWumbo My main issue with SC1 tbh is that the hotkeys are just all over the goddamn keyboard instead close to where my left hand would be at rest. I feel like I'd move much quicker with better hot keys
This just made me realize something: F2 selecting the whole army might be one of the biggest reasons I feel like SC2 is one of my favorite rts games because I don't need to set several control groups to control my army. That and all the graphical improvements and the ability to have more than 12 units selected at once.
Matrix Uploaded reference! Nice.
It’s Scary how accurate this is.
You mean because it's not accurate at all?
@@sihTdaeRtnaCuoY it’s Kinda...
@@IceCubeNETWORK873
Not really, no. Pro Brood War and Starcraft 2 players generally have similar APM. But Brood war is more mechanically demanding. Simply because of design choices like having to micro each new worker built, 12 units per ctrl group, no selecting multiple buildings, etc. You can play SC2 at a high level with less APM, but not at the top. At the top, people still have really high APM. Go watch Serral/Reynor/Maru/etc play SC2 and compare it to BW pros, maybe excluding the God himself, Flash, since he is on another level entirely, going deep in to ASL as random.
@@sihTdaeRtnaCuoY How fast is flash? I dont doubt that he’s a god but i was wondering
@@snowdrop9810
I don't know his exact APM, and he might not have the highest. But he is the most mechanically sound player that has ever played Starcraft. And he's also the smartest to be honest. He understands the game better than anyone, and can even execute builds that nobody else can actually do because of his understanding combined with his mechanical consistency.
He's so good that he made it very deep in to ASL while playing random. This is literally unheard of, and I think would be impossible for anyone else. Few people can make it that deep with a single race, and to my knowledge, nobody has ever even qualified for ASL with random, let alone made it to the semifinals. And people are better at the game than ever today. Doing it now is more impressive than any other time. He has pretty much cemented himself as the most legendary e sports player in history.
I love how he is trying hard to macro but doesn't realizes he in macroing an unpowered gate
*probe*
you can't scare me with this.
*COLOSSUS*
:O
Waow , Kinglich... How is Arthas?
@@MuradinBronzeearded dead
I'm pretty surprised there are people who still belove StarCraft (1 & 2) and make jokes and memes about the game 😅👌🏽.
Thank you very muc, Executor Nral, for making memes of these games 👏🏽😄, which many people make fun of saying that they are dead 😔.
Everyone, take care and GL HF!! 🖥️⌨️🖱️ 😄👍🏽.
Tbh, both SC1 and SC2 are freaking hard games, it takes long time of skill training to actually started having fun. I once tried to get a LOL player to play Sc2, he just gave up.
tbh in sc2 you can play as right click protoss very easily, being a deathball of units.
@@Edgariki Yeah for beginners, but it's going to be very boring if you go with the same tactic each time. If you want to have some fun with Protoss, you'd need some micro. At least some prism juggling.
@@edwardsong5199 You just didnt try to play much i think, its actually hilarious how simple are they.
Even on master-diamond some players can have 80+- APM when playing with protoss and rarely going to 160-180 in battles.
@@Edgariki So does this fact make the game easier? Or you just wanted to trashtalk about protoss players :)
@@gorkemsaylgan2421 yes its does. I m not trashtalking, because i m played myself a few years ago
that's part of the joke: protoss was the "A-move race" in 1 too.
though unlike in 2 they actually _were_ imba as a result: 2 is balanced around that last 1% or so of the skillbase and a theoretical skill _cap_ which can make the races more than a little imbalanced for 99+% of the playerbase but there _is_ a visible skill cap in most situations meanwhile back in 1 there are just so MANY tiny little things that you can be doing on any given frame to improve your situation that the game literally can not accept commands fast enough to split your initial 4 workers perfectly and as a result even someone like Flash or Boxxor was only barely playing the game. the unit's numbers kinda matter a bit but in the end the balance of the game is all about how much benefit the player can get from applying their attention and at the end of the day protoss just had less buttons to press to do a few equivalent things and more ways to force their opponents to have to press more buttons, even the brokenness that is the defiler did not even that equation out.
The theoretical skill cap for SC2 has not been reached, or even sniffed at by regular humans. If we were anywhere near there protoss would crush every tournament because Blink Stalkers with perfect control are completely broken. The top SC2 AIs (or just pros playing on a slower speed) really show off how much more combat could be optimized. A-moving is enough to win most of the time but it's not because a-moving is optimal, it's because having finer control without sacrificing too much in other areas is really, really hard.
What's really going on is that SC2 has a lower skill floor than Brood War because of the QoL changes. The ceiling in both games is infinitely high as far as humans are concerned.
@@MainTopmastStaysail there are plenty of interactions in 2 where you really can play perfectly or at least close enough to it meanwhile even something as simple as telling a worker to mine or a marine to shoot a zergling has meaningful optimization that can come from additional attention from the player.
both games are set up for how you focus your efforts to be just as important as how much effort you are putting in it just gets far FAR more pronounced and visible in 1.
brood war is so hard that even enganging your enemy in brood war requires decent micro to at least do damage to your enemy.
you may be getting by on your way to the top. but when you are battling with gm level opponents, it intensifies.
average apm's are not that different, what greatly varies is how much bang you get for your apm buck
To say it with Metallica:
*Sad but True*
in broodwar you use half of your micro for the units dont get stuck.
U should use Protoss for sc2. It is Legit a move race
A perfect example of all the conveniences and mechanical improvements that SC2 has over 1. Which it should, since SC2 came out ten years after 1. If it didn't have such improvements, the game would honestly be a big disappointment. But for people saying that F2+A move encourages death balls... sure it does, at lower levels. But really good SC2 players, pros and competition players, they use hotkeys to make different groupings. So one army attacks one location while others move elsewhere.
Yes but even pros use F2 sometimes.
@@dannygjk Not saying they don''t.
You’re in denial. SC2 is a much more easy Game to play. Having the whole production in one control… having drons with set rally point at minerals…
I simply go on atack and produce with the proper set rally point Both economy and army without loking and just continue to micro.
You should have to solve a 6x6 sudoku to issue a build command, recite the alphabet backwards to use control groups, and play with oven mitts on. Really up the skill cap.
what is the first guy with the headphones from?
Like someone said on another Starcraft video many years ago: SC1 is like playing chess, SC2 is like checkers. The difference between these two games is night and day.
This made my day/night, time to sleep
LOL I HAVNT LAUGHED THIS HARD IN A LONG TIME
THE SC1 IS PERFECT HAHAHAHAHAHAH
Captain here :
SC1: no all army hoy key. No group select four buildings. Can only select 12 units at a time. Different unit types have to be hotkeyed individually for spell casting. All units must be constantly reminded where to go because pathing system sucks and units will randomly walk in arbitrary directions if they bump into each other. Only like 3 camera hot keys available.
SC2: group hot keying buildings and unlimited group sizes for units. You can hit tab on your keyboard to cycle between the different sets of skills in a group of multiple unit types. Some skills auto-cast Basically you can accomplish 90% of stuff almost without using your mouse. Maps can be huge and units walk speed is kinda slow. Everybody freaks out about apm and micro and streamers and players just click buttons like crazy to make it look like they are better than they actually are.
Your last sentence applies to both SC1 and SC2.
The SC2 clip should've been Casually Explained going "And I just a-move 'cause that's what Protoss usually does- and he left the game."
A move, how to optimally micro carriers.
Sc1 players be needing this micro to a - move a blob up a ramp while SC2 players are attacking on 3 fronts with half the effort.
0:01 - 0:28 Me: Dude, are you ok?
left hand training is always stressfull when parents are at home
me in sc2 doing chill artanis a-move with spinlots
Remember times when protoss weren't the easiest click-to-win race and game was balanced? And then Starcraft 1998 came out.
Sc2 is balanced right now, I don't understand all the guys believing in this imba thing
well activision, its digital cancer, sc will never be good without the original creators/owners who actually cared about their game. now its an unbalanced skin selling festival of shit.
yes protoss really is not click to win that stalkers are not so great
@@eYeTrIcK77 do you even play this game?
Starcraft over 20 years of balance whining
Have you played terran my friend? Try it against a good protoss Rofl
thats what makes sc1 fun, you have to panic first.
Shows an expert BW player playing their heart out
Shows an showcase match of sc2
I often argue that SC1 is not a strategy game but a clicking contest pretending to be a strategy game. The mechanical requirements much higher which is not inherenty wrong just know what the game is about.
Just because it requires a ton of mechanical skill/practice doesn't mean there isn't incredibly deep strategy underneath as well. Its both.
Day9 talks about this very topic in an excellent rant. I highly recommend seeing this if you're interested.
ua-cam.com/video/EP9F-AZezCU/v-deo.html
I say this as someone who's loved games like SC1, WC3, and C&C since I was a kid... The term "strategy" is false advertisement most of the time. Clicking contests and micromanagement fests are not strategy.
If you want actual strategy play Total War. Preferably Medieval 2.
SC2 is so much more intuitive and so much smoother to control that it feels you need so much more APM even if you don't!
and thats just the sc1 protoss ...
SC2 players when their opponent build Carriers (they cant attack move)
That's why I don't even dare going online on rts games. Cause I am sure to meet someone that has every keybinded and pressed 10 command super second.
My phone has like no anti-aliasing at 144 so the brood war looked exactly like it does when you have no filtering at all lmao
Select all. Click mouse and A. I'm basic, but it works.
Thanks blizzard there's co-op mode in StarCraft 2 , where until hard difficulty you can play with chill😎
I love this video
Me on sc2: *3000 clicking of the button S
APM be off the charts in SC1 xD
You have a problem with click, Mr. Anderson?
ALL ABOARD TO THE FINGER BROKE TRAIN
This is true for protoss but not for every other race
As an SC2 player... Giga Chad Yes meme
I played enough SC, WC3 and WoW to learn that keybinds and key shortcuts = optmization. Now, as an editor, I make videos like I played'em games, typing the crap out of it until the sun sets.
I am such a bad player i couldnt even finish the SC1BW storyline. Playing as zerg kills me from the inside
oh NO a game has more advanced pathfinding, therefore making it a 10000% better experience, but allows people to actually control their army?
its almost like they dont want us to have to intensely micro 24 units bc they cant walk in a straight line
"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."
Raph Koster
sadly thats the case for starcraft
"sadly"
@@joaopadua7134 can a casual player do multiplayer anymore? Starcraft has been warped entirely around the competitive micro race.
@@tacky4237 yea you can but you are probably gonna lose
@@joaopadua7134 my point precisely. Starcraft optimised casual fun out of the game and now only the competitive crowd is left. If you want to play the game casually you're stuck with singleplayer.
@@tacky4237 if you are a casual what is the problem with losing?
to be honest, in both games armies can be micro'ed godly.. warp prism juggling 2 immortals on the level of Has is just as impressive to me as bisu's dragoon handling (especially vs widowmines).. i think the biggest difference is managing your base + pathing.. QOL stuff like showing idle workers or bigger groups than 16 is such a benefit.
That "Yes!" from the sc1 guy was simply due to successfully re-rallying all their production
Quick someone tag Artosis
so true
Me, a StarCraft 64 player
HOLY FUCK THAT OPENEING
I haven’t played starcraft yet (I’m going to install the OG one, I can’t play anywhere except Steam), But I want to know the context.
Rip headphone users when they clicked the video
i'm sc2, but without keyboard and only mouse
What does f2 do? Only played two weeks of sc2 in 2010.
SC2 require just as much APM as SC1. F2 is mostly for noobs, I got it unbounded. I had keycaps come off my keyboard while playing SC2.
aah... fighting spirit, i hope i never see this map again, but i know better...
Enough!
rofl this is so true
SC1 : True Korean
SC2 : Fake Korean
And that's just Protoss. Objectively the easiest race to control in a game that actively plays against you
anyone knows the name of the clip used for the SC2 part?
ua-cam.com/video/ug2aoVZYgaU/v-deo.html
what s the original video?
Just missing some salty Artosis sounds in the first part
Artosis moment
Ф2 лимит кэрьеров тосса: мужик ест чипсы
I quit playing sc because i didnt want to have fun anymore like both these guys
Tbh, pro sc2 players probably have a higher apm than pro sc1 players. I can't follow any of their screens like I can with sc1.
thats more a effect of the macro being easier to execute in SC2 aka no clicking on each buildingnot needing to a move 6 times to get your army around stuff like that and i mean SC1 Pros also hover between 350-450 and we dont really have holding down keys as a feature
True story
old blizzard vs new blizzard
@carlos jimenez of course
you mean old blizzard vs pre activision blizzard. I dont want to see an activision blizzard mixxed into this... terrifying thought
@@Joyexer i mean blizzard north
My dad is a super pro in sc1 i remembered but now with sc2 he aint know anything its too advanced for him and i proceeded to download sc1 remastered and he liked it
He's not wrong lol.
sc1 is basicly critical fast no stopping skill and sc2 is well kinda for people who are lazy af
f2 best key
"strategy"
Sc1 pain and suffering
Sc2 pain and suffering... for your enemy
If you are protoss with 99 warp gates obviously.
FR!!! SC1 is full of sweat players!! That arent mesisng around
I belive you have a problem mister anderesn.