Why Does Punk Hate Folk Punk?
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- Опубліковано 29 тра 2021
- Short video offering a few thoughts on why so many punk fans seem to be against folk punk.
I like folk punk myself, but a lot of people in the scene seem to hate it. Thought maybe I could come up with some answers of my own.
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"Punk rock should mean freedom, liking and excepting anything that you like. Playing whatever you want. As sloppy as you want. As long as it's good and it has passion.”
- Kurt Cobain.
Exactly.
And while Punk has spawned a lot of interesting genres, there is an. element in the scene that wants to keep. Punk or Hardcore, just like it was in the early days. Which, ironically, is completely the opposite of how it was in the early days.
@@milascave2 lol, imagine being a "Punk Conservative"
@@thenewbohemian5779 Jerry Garcia was a Conservative. And The Grateful Dead are one of the first Punk Bands. Of course, like all Punks, they hated the Conformists and Socialists and Poser Groupies that flooded into their scene trying to steal their vibe. They, and Janis Joplin did interviews about it. Socialism is inherently incompatible with Individualism and Freedom. Imagine thinking you Can be a Punk Rock Socialist.
Punk doesn’t even have to sound good as long as it has passion and freedom behind it it’s considered good
Folk punk is the purest form of punk. What can be more punk than a guy with a guitar screaming his heart out
Honestly, I don't think it matters how punk folk sounds, I think it is the ideas behind the songs instead. Punk in itself has freedom and anarchism at it's heart, expressing feelings about a fucked idea or system. Punk started as a form of musical activism for those ideas. Punk folk is the most accessible, sharable, and easily made type of punk music, with the usage of instruments that don't need to be plugged in, so the music can be played anywhere, literal freedom. Arguably, punk folk holds closer to the ideas and origins of punk, than most any other music, while most of the punk scene today seems far too worried about how it sounds, than the messages behind the songs. Punk folk, to me, is where all the heart and ideas of punk music went. It is probably the most authentic, thought-provoking, and genuine music out there. People who think it's just a bunch of hippy shit, need to get off their authoritarian high horse, shut up, and embrace the music and the ideas behind it. As a critique of the genre of punk though, yeah punk folk has pretty much distanced itself from the hardcore aesthetic in favor of the homely aesthetic. I feel as though punk has its place as a frontline media to try and punch through all the bullshit to get people thinking and motivated, while punk folk focuses on direct action, changing minds and providing a sense of freedom to those on a street level. Both have their aesthetics and places in the fight for ideas.
That’s a good point about folk punk being closely tied to the origins of punk even though the music is more accessible. The contradiction of the happy sounding music and serious lyrical content is definitely one of the things I like most about folk punk. Also makes sense why a lotta people call it “anti-folk”
W.T.F that was so well said Punk is an idea!. Punk Rock is the war cry !.can take any form you want it's got to have the message. The delivery can be........?
I strongly agree Tony Tramel! As a folk punk musician myself, I also agree punk can play whatever we want. As long our message is loud and clear as ideas behind a song that matters 😁. The reason I played FolkPunk is because I play my songs anywhere I want to without any restrictions. And I view FolkPunk as similar to ArtPunks due to it creativity. Cheers ✌🏼😁
@@acap0998 exactly when people say that this is Punk this isn't they forget PUNKROCK is a big middle finger to conformity if it's got the message good enough for me Reggae is Punk same type of message different delivery DO WHAT YOU WANT DON'T BE A PRICK. CHUR CHUR FROM AOTEAROA NEW ZEALAND PUNK 1984-2000?
@@heathcornbeef Agree! I also believe that reggae is another way of punk before punk was punk. As it's songs and messages is clear! My friend use to say reggae is a rebel music.
I find Folk Punk most appealing simply because I like how the music sounds, and often relate to lyrics. I’ve listened to folk punk in the past going through the worst times of my life, so it’s also a coping mechanism for me when things get tough. I think I listen to Folk Punk cause’ it’s just easier for me to stomach, and that Ive established a more emotional connection to it than Punk itself.
What is truly special about Folk punk, to me, is their honesty and practicality in their performance. Most of these dudes can perform anywhere and give the same performance as an album recording whereas any other band would need electricity and an established venue to garner a crowd. Folk punk bands could start up on a corner with no production value and only their honesty and still gather a crowd of like minded people if they're willing to open their hearts to the soul of the music instead of judging it based on the norm of what "good" music sound like. It's a genre by outcasts and for outcasts. If you've always felt accepted and loved you probably won't feel the message, if you're on the opposite side of that coin though? This can very likely become your musical home. Basically Folk punk is for the people who have never fit in but want everyone to see how much their flaws can make their character for better or worse
Edit: I'm also drunk so whether or not the above message makes sense.....eh fuck it. I mean what I mean and if it resonates it does if not, we'll still welcome you. Just don't be a dick on purpose
The fact that I recognized almost every band you mentioned by name in this made me realize how deep I am into this genre, not like super far but way further than I thought it was
If you haven't already, check out Rail Yard Ghosts and Flogging Molly.
@@gameoverlordN7 check out Flogging Molly and rail yard ghosts wtf that is the most square comment I’ve ever read 😂
@@booooo-urnsdudes barley scratched the surface 😂
To me the reason i got more into folk punk after years of being into punk/oldschool/ hardcore/skacore was because the songs sound more like anthems. They're easier to scream with friends, they've got punchier messages. You feel like you're part of the gang screaming "whiskey is my kind of lullaby" because you're really only missing one guitar. The very low production value makes it punkier, more authentic and more authentic to me.
Another example is "pints of guiness make you stronger" i never seen a punk not sing his heart out on this song
One of the things that has plagued music of all genres for the past 10 years is the obsession with anthems. It's especially prevalent in what passes for rock today. Every song and artist today wants to be anthemic and bombastic, it gets old fast.
I've personally always held to the idea that "punk", not as the musical genre per se but as the movement, is wastly more ideological and hence folk punk and even many weird indie things count as punk to me and deserve to be treated as such. punk is way more about opposition of hierarchy and creating what you want ~~even if you really can not play~~ than it is about following set rules.
to ruffle some feathers I like to say that pop punk is more punk than "hard core punk" with both terms being inherenrlt antithetical to the ethos of punk
I've recently taken to saying that Johnny Cash was a thousand times the punk Johnny Rotten ever thought of being.
@@Nerdsammich Johnny Cash is 100% more punk than Johnny rotting.
Cash was atleast honest about what he was about, unlike rotten, who was a corporate shill.
Idk about pop punk being more punk than hardcore but I respect your perspective on this. It’s pretty interesting and I enjoy anarchist ideology within punk as well as the music
Surprised not to hear early Against Me! getting referenced in this video. Reinventing Axl Rose and Disco Before the Breakdown were my route into the genre as a kid (leading to bands like Defiance, Ohio and AJJ and beyond) and it's an interesting halfway house between the pure folky/acoustic stuff and stuff like celtic punk, being essentially acoustic songs but with distorted guitars, screaming, gang vocals, etc but not really featuring the folk instruments as much.
Yeah, like they're like the quintessential folk-punk band and they never get mentioned in this type of videos.
From '85 to '89 I saw The Pogues at the legendary Glasgow Barrowland do their annual Xmas show. Two hours of blistering folk punk from the band who quite possibly made the genre. Every year was a massive, seething mess of sweat drenched bodies and you would swear it was raining inside the fucking building due to the condensation dripping from the celling. And in 89, Joe fucking Strummer came on for a few tracks and they done a frankly blistering London Calling. Fucking awesome band, check out their first three albums. Folk Punk Classics with a generous side of whatever Shane McGowan was drinking at the time. Both epic and haunting.
Yep. The Pogues were the first folk punk band. No one gives them their due credit, but the genre has been around since the ‘80s because of them. But they’re Irish, right? So fuck ‘em.
Hell, as early as ‘93 I was performing folk punk that was so offensive it’d prolly make the kids in today’s AJJ crowd want to straight up lynch me.
Whatever.
One hot day in July of ‘98 Shane MacGowan once went out of his to spit on me and curse at me. Who else can claim that?
I never actually had a hard time listening to more hardcore punk bands or heavier bands in general, but the music I like tends to be based more around the artists themselves and what their music specifically has to offer that other artists don't as opposed to what genre they're in. What I love about folk punk bands, albums, songs is that a lot of the time lyrics are the main focus and they're more in your face because of the fact that instruments are stripped back. I mean you can't really listen to a Johnny Hobo and the Freight Trains song and not notice the lyrics and every word that is spoken as well as how personal they feel to the vocalist. Most of what makes folk punk is also the energy that it has. Like, I don't think the average folk music fan would be as likely to be into some folk punk bands as the average punk fan would.
I think the working-class roots of folk & punk make the genre merge inevitable. There's loads of folk/acoustic stuff in the early crass & anarcho punk scene in the UK & it was a popular flavour of the European squat scene where the merging of instruments seemed pretty natural. It works with the popularity of punk poetry at the time as well (Attila the Stockbroker). You then get The Levellers coming out of the anarcho/traveller scene of the mid-late 80s (a band I love, but I get that they may be an acquired taste!). Some of the folky acoustic stuff can be quite politically moving like that awesome Sore Throat acoustic track - A Bow to Capital - off Unhindered by Talent. I just think it might make more sense to a UK/European audience where folk music & instruments influence so many other musical genres.... folk metal... Euro-pop... 80% of all Eurovision songs... !
As a folk punk fan.. I will say the hippie thing I hear a lot. But I think folk punk lyrics are also pretty punk. I will admit I have fallen out of folk punk because I think the lyrics are getting to clean it is still a music I will love. Because to me it is just people making music with what they have
Love Days N Daze, Johnny Hobo and the Freight Trains/Pat the Bunny/Ramshackle Glory/The Wingnut Dishwashers Union, Rail Yard Ghosts, etc., but i also get down to crust punk, like Disrupt, Amebix and Extreme Noise Terror. I've seen Flogging Molly 6 or 7 times through the years, and Dropkick Murphys a couple times, too. Black Flag, Anti Flag, Subhumans and Crass (yes, i know WAY different time periods) also very much appeal to me as well, and i love the whole anarcho punk movement as a whole. It's all one in the same to me tbh. I don't think one sub genre is any better than the other as long as it's true to punk at the core
Right there with you! I like it all! fuck gatekeeping
@@thepunkhistorian6397 hell yeah!!
I agree, it creates further divide and distracts us from fighting the real enemy, and i agree with The Punk Historian… fuck gate keeping
i have been on the outskirts of every sort of scene imaginable in my punk ramblings of 30+ years...and Hobo Folk Punk just seems like a homecoming of sorts for my crusty ole geezer guttergoth ass!
Despite Punk being founded as an aggressive genre designed to be very “in your face” emotionally, socially and politically, Folk punk just seems to be better at all of that than any modern punk band. Most of the bands that cite The Clash, Ramones or Sex Pistols as influences fucking suck. Gimme AJJ any day over some group of douche bags who want to copy what started punk rock 40+ years ago.
Judge others much?
I like AJJ too but this seems like such a stupid criticism. AJJ literally copies whole lyrics from Woodie Guthrie, so they literally are trying to sound like their genre's artist from 40 years ago, too. Except in this case it's actually closer to 50 years ago.
meh id rather have my arrogant sons of bitches, though i love AJJ(got a few of their early LPs and a copy of operation stackola) its all up to what your "punk philosophies" are anyway AJJ legit admits to stealing songs from woodie.
I think that’s a pretty accurate reasoning of why punks from the more hardcore sides of the genre view it as a bit of a laughingstock. Personally I never really got into the folkier punk music, but I always thought it was a really interesting way to make a toned down, laid back, almost accessible version of the fast, hardcore music we all love, whilst still retaining some of the ethos of the music.
Might have to look into the Celtic punk thing, I never really knew that was such a big thing and honestly it sounds like it’d be something I’d be into lol
Flogging molly is a must. I seen them live and It was the most high energy and fun mosh pit Ive ever been in.
My mom was/is a hippie, and when I was a kid in the 70's she would teach me protest songs from the Vietnam War era from some sheet music she had. So, I grew up on some folk music and ended up listening to punk. I still love the flok music from back then, it was very powerful. I don't know the folk punk genre that well, but if anybody can write and perform 1960's level protest music I would be all into it.
Harmony Parking lot song and Election Song by johnny hobo hit, also BBRC(Boom Boom Raccoon) hits hard authentic anarcho-folk ska punk is the best way to describe BBRC
To me the core of punk isn't the sound, but the sense of it being rebel music of some kind. I personally really find that the messages and perspective are more important for bringing that rebellious feeling, that's probably why I love folk punk so much. Especially when you look at people like Pat the Bunny but also just throughout the subgenre overall, the lyrics just hit so hard
this is like the definition of the "we have this thread every week comrades" but we have this discussion with every wave of punk music. ultimately it's up to someone's taste if they measure the "punkness" of a band by traditionalism, by sound, by lyrical content, or by its position as a counterculture. i guess that's the beauty of it.
i'll stand by it that days n daze or rent strike or any of them are a lot more punk than anything the dropkick murphys ever put out tho lmao
Emma Goldman has risen again! As punk as ever
I've always thought bluegrass was for headbangers
i love folk punk and punk but i just find folk punk more appeling
Nice pfp
I blame/thank my dad for my love of folk punk, he used to play Bob Dylan in the car every day on the way to Kindergarten, and as i moved into early grade school he introduced me to The Clash, the Ramones, and other more mainstream classic punk bands. As I developed my own music taste I stumbled across Days n Daze online and I've been hooked on the genre since!
Looking into Bob Dylan's influence and collaborations with some of the earlier proto and punk artists might be an interesting line of inquiry. He spent a lot of time with Patti Smith an Lou Reed when they were hanging around Warhol. Folk seems to have a long relationship with Punk, I don't see why the two groups meeting again isn't still Punk. But then again when I was getting into punk, Flogging Molly and Dropkick Murphys were considered shitty punk bands that were catering to the mainstream. Punk is, ironically, always full of gatekeepers.
Agreed! Folk and punk have always had a certain amount of crossover. As I said in this video I’ll do a “history of folk punk” at some point and probably talk about that more then
You could go back as far as Woodie Guthrie, who could be considered folk punk (even though the genre wasn't really defined back then).
@@thepunkhistorian6397I disagree 1000% you couldn’t be more wrong. Punk came long after folk. Punk advocated for extremism folk advocated for peace. You have Ohio from CSNY the same decade as the clash Londons burning. So the connections are merely retcon.
@@glowerwormummm there were like 5 genres back in Guthries day. Tell me how Roll on Columbia is a proto punk song… y’all are reaching to justify a genre that insults the history of both. Punk is a direct response to political folk music. One was for the weary masses the other for the angry youth. Just because they both have political messages doesn’t mean they are connected today. Rock took blues guitar but that doesn’t make punk the blues. This is the ship problem. If you replace every plank and nail is it the same ship? No.
@@victorunger you're hurt but an accurate description of woodie Guthrie's music because you wish it wasn't so accurate. Sounds to me like you're insulting the history of both by being so reactive
Folk punk holds more true to punk ethics than any other form of punk.
As someone who has recently been moving their way more and more in the punk direction of music lately, I find myself gravitating towards more folk punk than to “traditional” punk music. Obviously I can’t listen to every band under the sun, but to me, folk punk seems like it’s more willing to take risks in its music. Of course, it’s easy to diversify your sound when you can incorporate a wider range of instrumentation, but that’s neither here nor there. To me, a lot of punk music seems like it go too caught up in its influences. I’m not opposed to fast, aggressive music, but it feels like too many metal / punk / hardcore / etc bands get stuck in a homogenous loop because they don’t push their own musical boundaries outside of their genre (even for their own listening pleasure). When I listen to folk punk, I feel like I’m getting a unique blend of genres and ideas that have influence in different sounds, ideas, and aesthetics. Of course, that’s just how i feel.
With that being said, I still am relatively new to folk punk and punk so I’d gladly take any recommendations for albums and bands.
Well said! I definitely hear what you’re saying (especially with hardcore) about how so much punk music is stuck in its influences and people are afraid to push boundaries.
A lot of times you’ll see bills of bands that are all the exact same genre and it just gets boring at that point.
I’m gonna be doing a whole crash course on folk punk in the future so I’ll have some more recs in that video!
The Dead milkmen
The clash
Get dead
Johnny hobo
Zydepunk
Harley Poe
Stick and poke
Pat the bunny
The Taxpayers 1st record Exhilarating News and their 4th album God Forgive These Bastards
mischief brew and railyard ghosts.
holy locust
You’re definitely right there are two sounds of folk punk; traditional folk/acoustic music played by an aged punk, and younger punks playing traditional punk songs with acoustic instruments.
I used to help throw a lot of these shows in this tiny garage and I recall Bloodbird Raum was the first band I discovered that had the later sound, but I remember hearing Days n’ Daze for the first time, I think they just released “The Oogle Death Machine” and I thought wow it can be done!
They even started to inspire some of the other adjacent bands, Moon Bandits for example who for the most part had a laid back sound started experimenting with growls.
After speaking too so many of those band the concept of acoustic instruments is the freedom of not needing an electric infrastructure. There was no need for systemic power grid, symbolizing Anarchism in a way.
I like folk punk because I am getting old and still like my music full of angst but am not always in the mood for fast and heavy music any more.
You seem to define punk by its sound and aesthetic whereas for me it's more about themes and message. I like Folk Punk because it's slowed down with a focus on lyrics rather than instrumentation allowing for the message to better come across.
Punk was defined by its aesthetic. All music of the era was politically charged. You have to remember the stooges, and ramones were contemporaries of CSNY. To try to combine the two now is to discredit both roots.
loved the video dude! i honestly think folk punk is always hated by young punks. because they don’t have enough life experiences sometimes to really relate to the heart felt and honesty of the songs, but when you get older you start to relate and understand where they are coming from. i hated folk punk in my early 20’s, but at 35, i like some folk punk bands. it’s just depends who you are i guess.
As someone who grew as a metalhead and only started branching out in music taste in the last 10 years or so, I got interested in Folk Punk more due the Folk side of the things than the punk.
As someone who were already used to listen to Bluegrass and Southern Rock bands, I got close to the genre through bands with that reminded me of that punk attitude but were still pretty much Folk like The Devil Makes Three and Amigo the Devil.
Eventually I started going through AJJ, Pat and his projects, Days N Daze, Mischief Brew and many others.
I'm also very off that hippie stereotype and I see a lot of people who enjoys and discuss Folk Punk outside that label too. There are a lot both young and new that are listening to more music without being attached to a single scene as we used to be in the past.
When I was heavily into folk punk, I heard two main criticisms from my fellow punk/hardcore fans. One, that it was for "crusties" aka dirty, smelly "freegans" who dumpster dive, drink 40s out of paper bags on the street while tugging around a mangy dog on a string. And two, the shitty quality of both the production and the singing. Someone said it sounded like people were "killing a cat", or the vocals weren't quite in key, or that the songs were too basic and "sing along" - implying they were corny and goofy (talking about bands like This Bike is a Pipe Bomb, Punkin Pie, Rosa, etc). I used to listen to all these bands off Plan-it-X Records actually enjoyed the lo-fi, stripped down, gritty pop-punk anthems about community and togetherness. I found it more authentic and genuine, and inspired me to finally start my own band. I ended up moving on from folk punk though because the politics (and the smell) got too suffocating.
They do smell…😔🤢🤮
I think its worth mentioning the amount of people into celtic punk have the interest in folk music and are interested in combining the two because of their culture being represented in it and being raised around the Irish Scottish and other celtic traditions represented in the music aside the hard punk rock and hardcore values and sounds aswell
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Yeah I think it’s like that way everywhere unfortunately. Idk why though I love that stuff ahah
To me folk punk is like hangover music to mellow/regret a bit after an intense Night of hardcore punk each sub genre has it's own mood
Personally a big fan of the genre. Never got into any of the more hard-core stuff but I've been an avid listener of folk punk since it was introduced to me. Sure, you can find a song in most genes that reflect your emotions n let you vent out some anger but its far n few, folk punk for me is exactly that, whenever I need it. And thank god for that too, its really helped in some of my darkest times. Great video. Going to be writing an essay on the genre for a school assignment 👍
Recently discovered Frank Turner, whom I always avoided thinking "me as a hardcore punk fan would never like"... Got tempted with his split with Nofx. Now, he can't seem to avoid my speakers, he's became one of my favorite ever 😁🤟😅
I’m a big Hardcore Punk and Thrash Metal fan but I love Daze N Daze.
I was going to a ton of folk punk shows in the 2000s and I don't remember there being any hate from the scene on it. You'd see the same kids at the Magrudergrind show at the Mischief Brew show the next weekend
Most of it seems to happen online tbh. I always see people from scene on my Facebook and Instagram all like “folk punk is shit.. bla bla bla”
@@thepunkhistorian6397 thats a bummer man, I think honestly you had to be there but idk what shows are like these days I haven't been going to punk shows in like 12+ years. if you look up Mischief Brew and Pat the Bunny - New Mexico Song there's a video posted that makes me so nostalgic for those days it fuckin hurts, especially knowing that Erik is gone
Great work. At first I doubted your qualifications. Your oi and street video was quite intelligent. Much respect.
Folk Punk really started with two bands that couldn't sound more different: the Pogues in the UK and the Violent Femmes in the US. Hence we have the original difference between these styles of FP that exist to this day. Many people enjoy both styles but it's not hard to see why many others only like one or the other even though IMO both originated in the rebellious spirit of Punk.
i had no idea other punks disliked hippie trash punks like me till now lol. it is true that folk punk is more mellow than most regular punk music, but what makes folk punk "punk" is the ideology in my opinion. oh and at 2:35 i think i can see jessie from days n daze in that crowd lol
btw if anyone here knows any good "piratey" punk bands, please do tell me them
we the heathen - hail seizure
Loving your channel. Keep it up dude!
Honestly it sounds like something I can actually attempt genre wise since I'm starting to use an ukulele, I got a lot of flack for getting one instead of a guitar, but it's less daunting for me since theres less strings, I'm gonna start listening to folk punk to get ideas
Pete Pax and Pollution Circus were my into to folk punk. I’m an old school punk rocker who came to the scene in 1981 and I also consider myself a punk rock blues player. I played in lots of fire bands here but now I’m a solo act. I love a lot of folk punk. Not all but I feel the nature of both is music for people at street level. Great channel bud! I’m from Ontario Canada 🇨🇦
I've been into punk since I first heard it at 11 or 12 and folk punk when I first heard Johnny Hobo And The Freight Trains a while after, it was punk in it's most pure form and without all the polished bs that all the clones had come to exemplify. Now it's often as formulaic as all over forms of punk and much of it's just rehashing what was already done, mostly by Pat The Bunny lol But back then it was something else entirely, like Powerviolence or experimental noise it was such an extreme that very few could appreciate it, at least at first. It was an acquired taste for most people.
But acoustic punk has been a thing since well before I came into the scenes 20+ years ago. At most shows there was/is at least 1 person outside drinking and playing as everybody sings along and that's been the case from NYC to Memphis to FLA to Chicago to Nola to Austin to Oakland and everywhere else I've ever been to a show. Plus, mad bands that leaned very heavily in that direction like early Against Me!, Defiance, Ohio, TBIAPB, etc, well before Patrick Schneeweis really defined the subgenre.
However, I'll say in a lotta ways I was primed to fw folk punk too. I come from the hood and immigrant communities, I'm "mixed" Sicilian and "black", so rejecting the style of dress both parts of my family and friends wore meant going to the extreme, I was already using heroin and drinking heavily, I was hopping trains and hitching, I was already an anarchist, I was already into a lotta borderline bands that were basically folk punk or a proto-anarcho-folk-punk as well as older folks music and protest songs, and I was already playing acoustic punk music (often covering old union hymns, protest songs, punk songs, etc) through all of it. So it was kind of a natural fit.
I don't actually know many people who hate it though tbh. I and many others hate what it's become, an unoriginal rip-off, but there are still interesting bands out there. Punk is more than a genre to me, so when a punk plays any kind of music it automatically adds punk to whatever genre is being played imo.
To me... when somebody says they hate folk punk but love punk... I know they like punk for the sound and not the lyrics.
Dont get me wrong, that's legitimate. I listen to plenty of music because the sound can put me into or out of a mood. It's absolutely cathartic. But people who hate folk punk enough to say it... they're listening to the same sorts of lyrics and messages... but the sound turns them off.
You sing a punk song in any genre and I'm going to love it.
I definitely understand where you’re coming from that there’s a group of people who appreciate punk music and not the message, but I don’t think it’s fair to say folk punk is the epitome of the punk message.
I’m not the most avid follower, but I am a fan of folk punk and I can tell you from my own experience I’ve heard my fair share of folk punk songs about drinking, sex or other apolitical and (for lack of a better descriptor) unproductive topics.
Also, I don’t think it’s fair to say folk punk is exempt from being part of the “punk sound” either. While it may not be reminiscent of it at first glance it does still share a number of characteristics. Enough to at least be considered a clear derivative form.
I feel like folk punk is generally more artistic and interesting than most other forms of punk (which I love as well).
im very new to the genre, does the front bottoms count as folk punk
As a folk punk musician, I'd say my opinion indeed is biased. So the thing about folk punk, I'd say it is quite literally one of the most honest ways to express yourself, your feelings and your political opinions and takes. Having a folk punk say "fuck every cop who ever did his job" just seems more honest and real, you know? Also, the genre is also a good way for queer fans of punk (like me) to start their way in making music that is about being queer and the sadly politicized existence of us.
Hell yeah, ive noticed that most of the folk punk community is lgbt and I feel like it helps us feel like we belong.
@@cycologist7069 true, although it is cliche for a reason
One thing I recognised: the folk punk bands had often women in them. Regular punk, especially hardcore tends to be a rather hip stiff testosterone pumped audience. Girls tend to bring another element to it. Sometimes the 'male' element gets cranked up to cartoonish levels like in Agnostic Front, Sick of it All etc.
As an ex hippie who likes punk and folk... Wow do I feel scene.
As somebody who loves punk and metal, but has traveled a shitload since i got out of high school, folkpunk just makes total sense to me. It's a lot easier to travel with acoustic instruments and besides the sound punk is also very much about topics like politics and rebellion, of which there is plenty in folkpunk. Also it seems to be a very fitting way for gutter punks that travel the country hobo style to express themselves.
Pat the Bunny is one of my all time favorites as an anarchist
when listening to punk music, i like to break genres down into categories: musically punk - it sounds punk; lyrically/topically punk - it has the punk politics of anarchism/anti-authority/DIY etc.; it has the punk attitude - more violent and stubborn, wanna get shit done in their and theirs favour(s); along with other smaller categories, but those are the big 3. usually a good (in my opinion) punk genre/song falls into one of those three categories, whereas other genres do not. genres like pop punk or folk punk get tricky because they don't really fit in to those genres. we're not going to focus on pop punk, but folk punk can sometimes fall into punk politics, but the overall thing feels very hippie. i had a very big folk punk phase that lasted several years, and I do still enjoy a lot of the music, but whether or not I would class it as inherently punk I'm not sure.
Cool story bro. Back in the early 90's I started learning about punk I burnt out on the Sex Pistols really quickly, and moved on to more poppy stuff like the Queers, Fifteen, Green Day and Crimpshrine. While early Crimpshrine and Fugazi did have that hardcore element, that was cool and I dug that. I used to love moshing at a show, but I burnt out on that as well. What I liked about more complex punk was musically, it slowed down had bridges and lots of key changes esp. in fifteen and Crimpshrine songs. so I liked the tonal complexity. Folk also blends folk and country influences which I also like. But I still like the punk DIY ethos and I think folk punk is awesome for having all those elements. I think also the fact that I play music has a big influence on that.
In my experience, ppl poke fun at folk punk for being like characteristically unique. Like each band has their own quirky intrument. Which i find to be like a lot of the "special snowflake arguments" ppl make politically where they dont hold much water. And i think i celebrate how creative ppl are in making their own place in this community.
I havent been to almost any shows since covid tho. And reading through the comments has been very fun
What's up Mr. Punk Historian 🤘 Can you do a brief video on Cow punk and origins. just found your channel. good stuff🍻
To be fair I see how folk punk can get a lot of hate… for instance when I was a teenager I’d rather listen to NOFX and I didn’t care much for bands like Ghost Mice - however now that I’m older I find artists like Days n Daze or Frank Turner to be a nice pallet cleanse from the usual beardcore and tech skate punk I grew up listening to and still love
First new man !! Me and almost all my friends are Punks , in fact im the one who introduced folk Punk to my friends, here in Spain, specially Basque Country were there are lot of punks still Folk Punk is unknown and the bands i showed them like DND , We The Heathens... they have loved them
I wasn’t aware that there was any sort of divide on the folk punk thing. I already liked Mischief Brew, when I stumbled upon Days n’ Daze at a Leftover Crack show. Anyone I ever show it to (of the punk rock variety) seems to like it a lot.
The music itself may not sound like punk in a traditional sense, but the attitude is still very much there.
The crossover between punk folk metal and rock that New Model Army have done is worthy of a video all of its own. Impurity is such and awesome album.
I mean I have a day's n daze back patch along with a stealie and reel big fish patches..I like everything
Hell yeah brother! Great video. Subbed instantly
Main reason i got into folk punk was a friend who handed me a few bootlegged cds: Pat The Bunny's "Volatile utopian real estate market", Johnny Hobo's half of "Love Song For The Apocalypse", Ironically my technical intro was The Wild and that one BTMI song from to leave or die in long island
As a fan of both metal and punk myself I find that I prefer folk punk to folk metal or celtic punk. I feel the idea behind a lot of celtic punk and folk metal bands go along the lines of "Wouldn't it be cool if we put some folk instruments over our metal/punk band" which sometimes works but I find there's a greater depth and history to folk punk music drawing on a long lineage of folk groups punk or not from Woody Guthrie to Chumbawumba and so on.
Do you have a video on crack rock steady? I feel like you did but I can't find it
Yea I did. I took it down after the stuff about Sturgeon came out. I may re-upload it with a disclaimer but tbh I don't really wanna endorse his bands on the channel anymore
You did a great job describing why Punk people would/could hate folk-punk, and you're right... it is far from Punk. On the other side though, it's also far from Folk music. It's neither Folk nor Punk, because it's a fusion of those two radically different styles. I'm of the belief that Punk fans have become classist about the genre, which really does go against the entire point of Punk music in my opinion.
Tony Sly 'dancing bear' is a good mix of folk and punk...or acoustic punk. Folk punk is just punks getting old...as we all do!
Given you a sub young one as I appreciate what you’re doing trying to nab those younger UA-cam dwellers and bring them to the punk side of life 👌
In terms of my two cents on folk punk: I love it, personally - Celtic Punk however I’ve always hated with a burning passion. I don’t think the genres are that far disparate in terms of general ideologies of anyone can play punk, anyone can play folk.
Maybe I’m bias as I very much have a thing for Springsteen (and especially Nebraska) and also play blues harp just a smidgen better than I ever did bass. Alas, bands like Days N Daze (who are def my goto of the genre) play a style reminiscent of what I’d be doing but better.
Surprised no Frank Turner mention, unless I missed it.
Its weird to me that folk punk is considered easier to get into when most people i know have easily gotten into the hardcore bands i lile and not the folk bands i like such as Apes of the State or Pat the Bunny
I guess maybe it depends on who’s in your immediate friend group. When I got into folk punk I was listening to a lot of crust and hardcore as well, but I had friends that loved the folk punk and didn’t like hardcore and were instead more into genres like indie or emo.
Is it “easy to get into” by mainstream standards, no not really, but it definitely does appeal to some audiences more than hardcore might. On the flip side, like how crust or hardcore will probably appeal more to a metal audience than folk punk would
@@thepunkhistorian6397 yeah... my friends are metalheads, lol. I barely know anyone who likes folk punk tho, idk. I feel the popularity of the genres sort of speak better to this
you mention pat the bunny, dude. prime example of an artist who can be loud and passionate with an acoustic guitar. especially in his johnny hobo / wingnut dishwashers union days
How did this video not include Billy Bragg?
I'm a really big fan of Greg Graffin's solo work. Millport especially is one of the greatest albums ever made, in my opinion. It isn't folk punk but it's a good example of a person with solid punk credentials moving into a different genre and still being awesome.
neat. subbed. good luck growing the channel
As someone who was in the folk punk scene, and played shows with everyone from Chris Clavin to Madeline Ava to Days N Daze to Rail Yard Ghosts and Moon Bandits, I'd love to have a conversation with you about folk punk, and the ideologies behind it, on air.
The major problem as I see it, is that very few people can manage to sound both punk, and half decent on acoustic instruments. Obviously there are exeptions, but many of the artists that sound punk dont sound very good, and those that sound good dont sound very punk. The second problem is that unless you live under a bridge, struggle with hard drug abuse and/or mental issues, or just like endlessly wallowing in self pity, alot the lyrics are often not terribly relatable. Much like hip-hop or country its a genere that seems to like lyrics that basically just support its image. Once again, there are exceptions.
I basically heard the name "Folk Punk" way before I ever actually heard any folk punk, having grown up in the 90's skate punk scene, but without the time to play in a band anymore I got super excited, and started writing "folk punk". My own aproach was to mix big, driving open chord choruses with rootsy riff passages, it was fun and I'm still doing it, but eventually I realized it wasnt actualy folk punk. As I mentioned though, some times I play it slow and it sounds great, other times I play it fast and it just sounds thrashy and punk, getting it to tick both boxes is pretty tough. I talked to Dennis Jaggard of Ten Foot Pole, who recently put out the best unplugged punk album in existence... and even he mentioned that hitting that ballance could be very tricky.
I met Days n Daze at punk rock bowling and played a show with escape from the zoo. But I was playing in a Ramonescore band at the time
That’s sick dude nice!
THE RAMONES 1! 2!! 3!!! 4!!!! AND THERE WAS LIGHT THERE WAS SOUND THERE WAS THE MIGHTY MIGHTY RAMONE'S!!! AND THAT KID'S IS HOW THE UNIVERSE STARTED WASN'T A BIG BANG!!IT WAS DEE DEE FUCKING RAMONE HAIL THE MIGHTY DEE DEE CREATOR OF EVERYTHING
@@heathcornbeef I have an acoustic Ramonescore solo project if you're interested in checking it out, and yes hail Dee Dee❤️❤️❤️
@@JoshuaMutant Kia ora Josh how do I find your music remember that I'm A caveman still dragging my knuckles on the ground
@@heathcornbeef joshuamutant2.bandcamp.com
Just out of curiosity, why didn't you mention Billy Bragg? I always thought he was as folk punk as you get. In fact, he was a fixture on the UK Punk scene rather early on. It's a similar story with Shane McGowan and the Pouges.
Because this isn’t a history of folk punk video. I intend to do a proper crash course on the genre later on but this video isn’t it.
Folk punk gets a really bad rep in the punk scene and these are just some of my thoughts on why I think that is.
@@thepunkhistorian6397 thanks for the response. Makes sense. A show on famous fixtures of the punk scene would be a pretty fun video. Keep up the fun work
Awesome video bro! I completely agree although I feel like most, folk punk bands have “punk” influenced vocals but it’s just played with folk instrumentals
Chuck Ragan has one of the most godly voices Ive ever heard 🙌. (Thought Id throw that out there since I saw a him in this vid lol.)
Interesting idea. As an old punk from the 80s hardcore scene, I don't see folk-punk as something to hate on. D.O.A. played a show with Pete Seeger, the ultimate folkie. D.O.A. would also do shows as Drunks On Acoustic. Husker Du included "Never Talking To You Again" an acoustic track on their Zen Arcade album. Kevin Seconds is playing acoustic songs. Old folkies, like Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger, were more radical than almost any punk band I've heard. It's about the attitude. If you have have something to say and know three chords you start a punk band, a folk band or a folk-punk band. Shit, three chords is probably one too many.
I didn’t even know it was hated in the first place lmao
The genre elitism thing always makes me cringe, I love HxC and I get a kick out of Folk Punk. I love fast and aggressive but sometimes a sprinkle of other styles rounds my day out. I don't mind if people don't like a genre but the obsession with posers kinda makes it hard to vibe.
I'm an acoustic punk artist myself, not much folk influence though.
ok so, i play folk punk (almost exclusively) because i was brought up on old quebec folk/trad and irish folk music and i fell in love with it, but i'm also an anarchist and have anarchist ideas that bleed through whether i like it or not. i was not aware that folk punk was disliked enough in the community that it warranted a youtube video though.
anyways, my hot take on this is: punk is the message, not the format? like, on of my favourite punk artists is george brassens, great guy, wrote french acoustic music in the 50s through 70s, but he was one of the first french artists to swear in pop music, and actually talk about sex and not caring about the republic because he didn't identify with the patriotism and the laws. he got dragged in court multiple times, and proceeded to write songs trashing judges and lawyers because he was being unjustly fined and censored.
but punk didn't exist in the 50s, so is he not punk because he didn't write music in the 80s?
the point being, he is and it doesn't matter if he wasn't amped and yelling. it's not punk rock, but it's not not punk. which is why it's called folk punk. because it's not punk rock.
also ease of prestation is amazing. and a good deal of artists do unplugged albums, which is the same thing in spirit at least. and who the hell says it's not fast enough, most of my songs run at 200-ish bpm double time. how in the seven heavens and nine hells is that too slow. it's standard bluegrass speed.
Thanks for your thoughts. The hate mostly comes from crust/hardcore gatekeeper types, I’ve never had much respect for that type of thinking though myself.
Personally I don’t really buy into the whole “punk is an attitude/state of mind” thing because I think there’s already enough differing and conflicting attitudes and mindsets within the context of the culture to disprove that (take for instance Minor Threat’s straight edge vs. RKL and their obvious participation in drug culture. And this is just one of hundreds of examples). The result is a variety of different messages
I didn’t really talk about it in this video since this is more about why other people seem to hate folk punk, but I think folk punk more often than not is just punk played on acoustic instruments. Because think about it, if you played a bunch of Ramones orCock Sparrer songs on an acoustic guitar and washboard, it’d probably sound a lot more like Days N Daze than the original recording.
Just my opinion though. I want to discuss folk punk more in the future
Thanks again for your views!
I would like to see a video more in depth about this genre. maybe a crass course. There is some bands that did the folk punk genre harder. Like swingin utters and the orphans.
I play in a dirty shitty punk band, but also play in a folk punk band. You can't limit yer self to one sound. I love and appreciate most styles of music. I've been in hardcore bands and metal bands and thanks to some relatives of mine, played lots of "hillbilly" music. Since I first got into punk rock, I never limited myself to one style of it. Doing that, brings you many more fun times. I am the aggressive fuck it up guy, but I'm also the "we should all get along and open our mind" guy. We are not just one thing and that is how punk is. it's a mindset, a belief and something we are all part of. Folk punk is here and it's here to stay. Get used to it and grow or get left behind. 💚💚💚💚
a lot of folk-punk bands wanted to be punk bands, but couldn't afford electric guitars and the other things typically needed. so there folk-punk was. if they couldnt afford a guitar, stealing an acoustic was easier than an electric and having to find an amp too. and punk music just doesn't sound right acoustically so the folk influence plays a part in there to help balance out the music. punk is more about the politics of it all, and so if someone makes music about punk ideals, its pretty punk to me
punk is about expressing yourself, and what better way to do that than scream your heart out with an acoustic guitar and heartfelt lyrics? if someone thinks that simply not being "fully" punk isn't punk, then they aren't themself
I love the political aspect of folk punk that captures a lot of the anarchist ideology that got me hooked on punk. On top of that I love its connection with gutter punks as folk punk is so cheap and portable if you will. I will always love punk rock more and dream of playing in a punk band, but because my future has a whole lot of traveling in a van with me and my partner I plan on making up for not having a punk band by playing some solo folk punk here and there
You know, Greg Ginn of Black Flag fame was a huge Grateful Dead fan. The whole "punks vs hippies" was played out pretty early on. I'm 55 and have been listening to punk rock since 1979 (I always say I discovered it too late). If you like "folk punk", then listen to it. Fuck what other people think. And if it inspires you to create (be it musically or otherwise), more power to you. I personally like a lot of folk punk. I also like a lot of stuff that came out in the sixties. Enjoy your life. It's yours and no one else but you can experience it's uniqueness, so don't worry what others think.
i am confused by this mans characterization of folk punk. maybe i am just an aging punk (i am) but i always thought of pretty unruly material when i thought of folk punk (ie johnny hobo, violent femmes, earlier ajj) where the energy and punk ethos is more or less retained only thru different means. am i just a wacko for still just hearing desperation and frustration in early pat the bunny?
I personally really like Days N Daze black flag MDC Minor Threat Bad Brain's The Clash more my flavour but I like the energy they have
Check out the Bad Shepherds, they cover bands like the Clash, Damned, Pistols in a really traditional English folk way.
Honeslty to me, someone like Billy Bragg is more punk talking about the issues then some pop punk band talking about how his gf left him....but that's just how I feel.
Frank Turner is also a good example of the 1st category of folk punk, he was in a few bands, kneejerk and million dead before becoming folk punk in around 2005
I have never listened to another band that can even come close to the emotion that Days N Daze and Against me! can. I love folk punk and punk. I play and write both
i like folk punk for the combination of gg allin style acoustic guitars and danzig adjacent vocal styles.
I just wanted to find songs like ‘Trampled by Turtles - wait so long’ so I searched up folk punk. There’s something about this genre that doesn’t sit well with me, maybe if I grew up with it I would be ok with it; the disconnect is strong. The contrast between the two is too much for me, it’s almost like putting chocolate syrup on a hot dog, both are great on there own but together can be a combination that only a smaller minority of people would enjoy. I feel like a could pick out a couple of tunes that I would enjoy, but I’m really doubtful I’ll find a band or album I’ll come back to listen too.
Look into Harley poe
I think it depends and in my scene a lot of people actually really like folk punk. When it was super big there was soft folk punk like Sledding with Tigers and Paul Baribeau which was way too twee for the average punk crowd, but like AJJ circa People who can and Can't Maintain, Mischief Brew, and Pat the Bunny are definitely more in line with punk (but with acoustic instruments) than Blink 182. I guess it depends though. I got big into punk because I was big into political music which is why Mischief Brew and Pat (especially Wingnut Dishwashers Union) really vibes with me as being pretty punk.
I enjoy folk punk especially if I'm in a more melancholy mood, the lyrics often mirror some of the more... dark sides of things that can happen in a punks life while maintaining the basic principles of punk and humor.