This thing is simply fantastic; in the joy-to-drive category, I'd rank it above Toyota Supra, Nissan Z, and yeah, surprisingly, even the M2. If you want a better experience than the Type S, you're looking at MX-5, Cayman, and Corvette Z06. I'd rank it pretty equally with GR Corolla. *What a machine.* Save the manuals!
@@LingLing1337 It seems to vary on preference, but other guys like The Car Care Nut (he was a mechanic at a Toyota dealership before setting up his own shop) figure GR86 is overshadowed by the GR Corolla having more seats/room for why it is a better value proposition. Assuming both were available in the ballpark of MSRP these days. Another of the guys makes the GR Corolla seem among the ultimate fun toys this year while even the name Integra Type S just sounds more formal and dignified.. PS On that preference: If I needed to buy something right now, I was leaning toward the Acura Integra initially. Mazda seems the right mix based upon what I'd want and see as actually available. While I don't necessarily need to finance, getting something on attractive terms works good too!
@@jacksonbrusseaux4754 Assuming no markups on both sides (lol), GR Corolla is probably better value, as you can get in it significantly cheaper. Personally, I'd probably take the Corolla because I need AWD like 5-6 months of the year, but if I lived in a place with no snowy mountain roads, I'd be stoked on the Integra.
Jason, it never stops being impressive how you make such unique videos using the same press cars everyone else gets. This channel gets better all the time.
When I was first getting into car culture (E46 M3 era), the M3 was all anyone could talk about. It's a bummer that it doesn't still hold that same reputation.
After selling my 2018 Civic Type R prematurely (sold around 20k miles), I have wanted one again. Dealer markups and shenanigans pushed me away. So when the FL5/CTR was announced, I was excited but quickly came to reality with not only an already inflated MSRP, but dealer markup on top of that. Then the Integra Type S rumors and spy shots started popping up, it quickly piqued my interest. Knowing that Acura dealers are more fair, I thought I would have a better shot at getting one over the CTR. Now over one month later of owning an identical Integra Type S from this video, I can say I am so happy I couldn't get a Type R again. THIS was the car I was looking for. And for all the exact same reasons outlined in this video. I'd love to see more geeky breakdowns of torque and power to weight = fun factor. Great video overall!
Acura dealers are the ABSOLUTE WORST luxury dealer I have EVER dealt with. Buying one brand new Acura (the RSX Type-S) was enough for me. If you compare Acura to mainstream brands, they are midpack. Honda is no better, but I've never bought a honda and never EVER will. Honda is horrible. Acura is worse relative to what you'd expect. Good luck with any warranty work... expect to be denied, denied, denied. Especially when you have major issues like the drivetrain. Keep it all stock like I did (don't even tint the windows), is my best recommendation, and expect to spend $20k in maintenance and repairs in your 1st 5 years of ownership. 22 years later, and 99.5k miles, and I still own my RSX-S.
@@copperkeyracing6167 While you obviously had a bad experience not all Honda and Acura owners have similar ones. My Honda Civic had a small transmission problem during the warranty period and Honda replaced the entire transmission under warranty.
@@josephsmith594 I just finished writing my experience with Acura in reply to another post. Here you go... They screwed all the owners by fighting each one of them in court [in regards to the major issue which wasn't warrantied but should have been]. That's the way these things work. They decide between which is cheaper, 1) fight each of them in court, or 2) declare a TSB or recall. A recall is for a safety issue like the engine going up in flames, which didn't happen enough times in this case. A TSB is non-safety, but they admit to the issue and need to have all the cars come back to the dealership for repairs. If they feel they will be forced to fix all the cars eventually, then the cheaper option is to fix the car than pay for lawyers. They also take into consideration the damage to the brand image, and model image, due to bad publicity. They decided to throw the money at lawyers than fix the issue with the cars. Obviously this hurt the brand and model image, and resale values. Hence here we are today discussing the Acura brand and the Integra/RSX model image. TSB=Technical Service Bulletin (from google, "information sent from a manufacturer to service centers that describes a specific problem with a particular vehicle. It typically also includes an explanation as to how to correct the issue in terms of repair, software reflash, or modification of the automobile."). Attorney General only helps in lemon law cases, which has its requirements, like "did the issue reoccur 3 times or more? Did it happen with 12months?" In most of these cases, the engine blew up once, the dealer didn't fix it, the owner was out $20k (adjusted for inflation), and then he sold the car once fixed at a huge loss. When I went up against Honda/Acura, they basically told me, "They cover the 1st engine on the 1st owner sometimes, and they fight the rest 100% of the time. They do the "sometimes" because they don't want bad publicity/retaliation from owners or prospective owners." There are some that had the engine blow up on them 3 or more times in the first 2years, completely stock, completely no mods, except wheels and a tint, which was very common in 2002. Mods like those was a big red flag, and grounds for denial. Those were my mods, actually, and they accused me of burning through the stock 16" tires, and that's why I had 17s. They accused me that having a tint meant that I had gauges and a nitrous setup. LOL I still own the car, and in 22years, it happened 2 times for me in the first 5years. The 1st time was when I had it for 1.5years. I bought a 2nd gen '93 Integra as a beater, meanwhile my NEW Acura sat there for 1.5years, broken in my driveway. The problem was solved through the forums. The shop foreman at the dealership, oddly enough, was on my side the entire time. He told me 3k cars with the issue were brought in to dealers the first year of it being on the market. 6k cars the 2nd year on the market. 9k cars the 3rd year on the market. 12k cars the 4th year on the market. And finally, 15k cars the 5th year on the market. They stopped selling them at that point, with a total of 45 thousand cars brought in to the dealership with the issue. There was obviously more that were never taken to the dealership because they already knew the outcome, and took it elsewhere to get another engine put in. You can easily double that number, and round up to 100 thousand. All this was swept under the rug, and owners who had the issue were laughed at initially... and if you notice, no more Integra/RSX for 17years, and they got rid of the RSX name [and went back to Integra] because that name was obviously damaged... yet we still have RLX/TLX/RDX/MDX/ZDX, and not Legend, Vigor, etc. The car now has just under 100k miles, and very well kept as always. I went through hell with the car, but it's perfect now, in my eyes. It has all the dealer aftermarket options from day 1, ASPEC body kit, ASPEC suspension, JDM HIDs, JDM ITR wheels, dealer option wing, dealer installed foglights, interior trim kit, ITR swap (since the original motor & transmission went bye bye).
I ended up going with a GR Corolla due to the AWD being more fun in the snow where I live, but there's no doubt that Honda has knocked it out of the park with these cars. I'm glad that the hot hatch, which was looking in pretty dire straits a few years ago, is going out with a bang with these three cars.
@@mistamaog I heavily considered on settling for a WRX if I got hit with markup or dealer ads on the GRC. But I ultimately was able to get exactly what I wanted for msrp. Loaded Core in white.
Jason, I'm from Brazil and your videos are just fantastic to a car enthusiast! Here we don't have that type of details and explanation. Congrats, my friend.
“Super solid daily” is a perfect summary of the A-Spec. I’ve had mine since January and have 23,000 miles on it. I struggle to see below 36 MPG, and often cruise highways at 40 MPG. The important parts are all there: adequate (not fantastic) power, shortly geared transmission and fantastically actuating shifter, gobs of space (jammed a 27.5” mountain bike in it with the seats down), and decent creature comforts like heated seats and a great sound system.
I’ve got 10,000 miles on my A-Spec and am quite pleased so far. It’s sporty but practical. This is the first that anyone’s clearly explained the benefit of auto engine shut off with the manual. Well done. It’s a very easy decision when you’re putting around town. Watch the lights, put in the clutch before you get a green and viola’ off we go.
had so many fun road trips and year round daily use in that car was fantastic in Alberta winters@@reymenders5437 purchased it in 2000 from a nice lady got side swiped and totaled by f150 in 2018. during recovery i joined the darkside and purchased a 2004 f150 543 lol
The way you can take a math-y, technical subject and make it as interesting and real-world-applicable as you do is genuinely impressive. There’s no other channel that covers these vehicles like you do. Then again, I am an engineer so I love this stuff. Keep the amazing content coming.
12:40 In my automatic '22 Civic, which has start/stop, I avoid this situation all the time by coming to a stop and not pressing the brake pedal all the way down. The gauge cluster screen will say along the lines of "Start/Stop disabled, fully press brake pedal to engage", so it's designed into the system to be able to stop and keep the engine on if desired. Also if you ever come to a quick stop, say in an emergency, the engine stays on if you need to move quickly again, say to get out of the way of someone on their phone about to rear end you in traffic. Reading the owner's manual (like a yellowbelly), there's a lot of conditions that need to be met for the engine to turn itself off, so I love the system in my car knowing that Honda's engineers really put thought into it.
@@mengx94what do you mean? If you mean disabling the start/stop feature, you can indeed do that. There is of course the button but you can also turn it off within the settings.
Honda has always made incredible gearboxes. I also love the fact they allow you to disable rev matching. Nothing is more gratifying than hitting a perfect rev match with the heel/toe technique. Thank you Honda for continuing to make incredible drivers cars for the regular every day car enthusiast
I don't even know why MT have auto rev matching, absolutely disgusting. What's the point of it being a MT if you aren't even doing anything other than mindlessly stomping the clutch and wanking a gear lever. It's essentially just a fake MT car at that point.
True but I wish that my lovely 2006 Acura TSX 6 speed manual had it for those moments where I just want to do a little less but still enjoy driving the car. i.e. traffic situations, etc @@username8644
@@username8644 for sales, obviously. They believe there's a market for it because in some countries hardly anyone drive MT cars. I don't honestly think this feature is something the company would choose to include if they were trying to make the best driver's car alone. But then again, sometimes the Japanese can be weird with things
If I had a need for a fun commuter and second family car, I would definitely consider this, considering how much praise it gets. Can you do a video to explain why new cars are so heavy? As in, which parts of the M2 contribute to 3800lbs? Same for the new Mustang Dark Horse. The Dark Horse is 200lbs heavier than the Mach 1, but they seem identical. Where did those 200lbs come from?
Would be a great video. Cars are using more and more exotic materials in an effort to chase weight down and engines are almost exclusively aluminum, yet they have trouble offering weight savings over early millennia cars with iron engines and stamped steel.
@@invictusaeternum Exactly! I'm pretty sure the Mustang engine is lighter than most 4-cylinder engines from the 90s, by a good margin, but the whole car just keeps getting heavier..
@@kristijandimovski410 I believe that safety regulations contribute, but I'm not convinced that it's the majority of the increase. All cars are subject to the same regulations, but some (like the Miata) haven't gained nearly as much weight. Even comparing the Integra to the Mustang, it would be interesting to know where the difference in weight comes from. It can't be all in the powertrain. Also, I don't think that explains the weight gain for the M2, since regulations didn't change that much in 2 years.
Thanks for explaining the rev hang! I have a 2018 Civic Sport 6MT (same engine family) and some days just can't seem to shift smoothly despite my best efforts. No rev match like the Acura but this helps. Great video as always 👍
You have to factor in the torque curve of both vehicles, it's entirely possible the integra has a large bump in torque down low that would actually make more effective power at that rpm than the m2. I see a lot of people misunderstand this by just comparing the 2 MAXIMUM numbers together. You can compare them but you need to compare the numbers at the same rpm. Once you factor in final drive you do the same calculation and I'm sure it will show the integra makes more wheel torque than the m2 at the point in the rpm range.
@@EngineeringExplained hahaha yeah sorry for making it sound that way I wasn't shooting at you more at the people who will always reference the peak horsepower as the metric for how fast the car is. I agree with the entire video I actually went through all the calculations myself again! Looks good!
Glad you appreciate the ITS as much as I do. One test drive was all it took to completely sell me on this car as the most well-rounded sub-$70k (debatable) everyday performance vehicle on sale today.
Great review! My first car was also an Integra, a GS-R. I still remember how I dreamed of the DC2 ITR through college. I wish they labeled this one as a Type-R too - I know it shouldn’t matter that much and there’s marketing and all with Acura’s side, but as a Honda enthusiast in the 90s, the heritage that the Type-R has, the badging, the Championship White, those all carry a lot of feelings. Would love to have this or the CTR tho! 👊🏼
Jason, please do a video about the "dilemma zone" when approaching a traffic light. In other words, when the light turns yellow and you have two options; slam on the breaks or speed through a red light. Thanks
Thanks for the spirited review... well done. Regarding the auto stop/start, many automatic ICE cars that I have driven with this feature activated will shut the engine off at a complete stop after a second or so, but the engine restart comes while I'm releasing the brake. By the time my foot gets to the throttle, the engine would already be idling for that fraction of a second. The startup lag would be almost imperceptible if the starting engine was more graceful. Always a joy to watch and learn from you!
This is a GREAT video. I've been performing these exact calcs on my own spreadsheet for years. Our 2023 BRZ Manual manages to *feel* as torquey as my 2015 Mustang V6 Auto in 2nd Gear and actually more torquey in 3rd and 4th Gears, because of gearing (including tire diameter) and weight. The Mustang's gearing holds on longer (higher road speed) so it can essentially make up the difference in a 1:1 acceleration test where redline is being reached. But in the real world the torque push is the gratifying part, and the real world also imposes things like safety concerns, legal concerns, and mechanical sympathy. There are also nuances like driveline losses caused by transmission, flywheel, driveshaft (FWD vs. RWD), etc. as well as rotational inertia of the wheels / tires / brakes and unsprung weight. Frontal area, aerodynamics, immediacy of throttle response, traction and traction control, differential lockup, and finally the subjective factors (sound, coupe vs. open air, visibility and height from the ground, NVH, ride, etc.). And then of course you have to consider the entirety of the torque curve rather than just the peak number, and other factors like turbo lag, variable valve timing, etc. But total weight and total gearing are the two most important factors mitigating torque to weight. Here's another example. A while back I showed a buddy why a V6 Manual Camaro (3.649 liter) driven by me might actually feel stronger than his V8 Manual Camaro (6.162 liter) driven by him, at least in first gear. I used displacement, not actual torque figures (easier since they're both NA), but anyway the V6 is on 245/40-18s (instead of stock 245/50-18s) while the V8 is on 275/35-20s -- score about 7% for the V6. My buddy weighs 220 and I weigh 150, and when you factor in the weight of the cars and drivers that's another 9% for the V6. Finally you have gearing, where the V6 is a 14.388 and the V8 is a 9.9218 in 1st Gear -- a whopping 45% for the V6. Put it all together and the V6 with me in it actually has slightly more effective displacement / weight than the V8 with him in it. Of course, the V6 only gets to 38.3 mph in 1st Gear at the rev limiter (7200) while the V8 gets to 56.3 mph in 1st Gear at the limiter (6600), so it does a lot more as far as road speed with almost the same push into the seat. By 2nd Gear the V8's gearing gives it about a 10% advantage, but 2nd is 86 mph at rev limit in the V8, so it's starting to hit that point where the artificial limitations of safety / legality / not being anti-social creep in. The V6 lets you use more gears, more rev range, or more throttle opening, or a combination of all three, before you hit the reasonable person limits.
I had a 2019 TLX A Spec V6 AWD for a year before a security guard totaled it in a parking lot. It was such a fun car to drive daily with the AWD display that looked like the Knight Rider voicebox showing the power distribution. I would have jumped right back into another one but the fuel economy was not good at all and prices had gone through the roof.
I have the Integra A-Spec manual, and the most important thing about it for me is the helical limited slip. It PULLS you through corners with a ferocity that leaves you feeling like you're driving a much faster car. It can really fly through corners and curves in a way a lot of cars simply can't. It also has an even softer ride than the Type-S, but even then the ride is quite stiff. I actually traded in a 2022 Civic Si for the Integra A-Spec specifically for the softer ride and creature comforts. I'll also point out that Hondata measured the performance of both of these cars on their dyno, and compared with the previous Si (10th generation) it seems like Honda decided to start being extra humble in their spec sheets. The new Integra A-Spec was making closer to 230hp, and the new Type-S is making close to 340hp. This was on a hub dyno and adjusted to try and calculate for crank horsepower, so many people are assuming Honda is now reporting wheel horsepower in their spec sheets.
Like you, my first car (that I bought myself) was an Integra... but mine was the OG 1987 edition. It was the NA 8000+ redline and sublime shifter that made for a perfect experience and to this day one of my favorite cars I've ever owned. But your memories of your first Integra are rose-colored compared to the modern A-Spec which is absolutely a much better car.
Well executed video Jason! I love how you mention the gearing it is so true. It really makes a car much more engaging to drive, especially when it is a car like the type S! Unfortunately, I will be sticking to my 1991 Integra until it dies :)
Great review! Love the style. Your video spoke to me in that I am now driving an auto M2 and was conflicted with trading for the Integra Type S. M2 does everything well, not quite my cup of tea with regards to the appearance, but after lowering it, adding spacers and a mid pipe the car looks, sounds and feels overall great. With that said, I unfortunately took the Type S for a test drive. Was blow away with everything about the car, but when I got back to dealership I parked next to my M2. It just didn't feel as special, so I left the dealer and decided I'll keep the M2. But after a few restless nights pining to get back into the Integra Type S, I decided to do what every responsible adult who clearly only needs one car should do. I bought the Type S as my weekend wingman and set to pickup next week after they swap in the black badging and sexy copper wheels. But as logical and responsible person, I'll assess both cars over the next few months and decide which one truly captures my right foot. Maybe I'll let one go, or maybe keep both. Either way, I'm looking forward to the drive.
You make amazing content! I cant believe we have to call these things a 5 door! Maybe I am just getting old but the 5th door was easy access and usually more space. does not look like I would be able to carry anything more than a normal sedan with fold away seats would. I mean I dont even think the dog would want to be back there it looks small. video never makes it easy to compare. keep up the great work!
You forgot something about the price... Nobody sells a Type R at MSRP, the markups range from 5K to 25K ... So in the end that's very much favoring the Acura maybe even price-wise ...
I found plenty down where im at at base msrp barely a couple hundred or couple thousand upsell. But that was when they first came out, now with demand i see them a bit taxed 😓
I'm not saying you can get one at MSRP everywhere, but things are turning around. The fools that wanted to pay $20k+ markups are broke now or already have something. Time for the rest of us to buy.
I've been watching your videos for a LONG time. I just wanted to say your skills in production, video, and everything related has become amazing over time. Keep that in mind and keep it up! Thank you for being you.
Why do you believe markups only apply to this car? Pretty much everything is marked up, including used cars. People are just using this as an excuse to dog on this car. In my case, the Acura dealer is offering at MSRP.
Excellent video Jason. I just sold my 2021 Lexus IS F 350 with only 7,500 miles and I’m kind of regretting it. I never thought about an Acura Type S but after watching your video I’m gonna go and test drive one and see how I like it. I did consider the Toyota Corolla GR because of the AWD and the horse power. Thank you for the explanation and the video.
@@WhatisaLeeCan you search by vehicle weight? I only know 1 person that can drive a manual, spoiler its myself. That price point is today's market, I bought my Ford Focus St for under 30K in 2018, all of those hit the mark except its down 50hp. So have cars REALLY changed that much, maybe the inside, but most people just want a car that works.
@@fortheloveofnoise You're not wrong. It's RWD and +400hp. Probably better NVH too. But it's also 4000lb. And as a GM product, there are concerns about reliability, even if unfounded. Considering the drawbacks of the ITR in comparison: - The FWD drivetrain seems to be tuned well enough to avoid common pitfalls like torque steer, understeer at limits, and poor launch dynamics. - 400hp is fun but 300hp is more than enough for everyday use. - As for NVH, it's not marketed as a GT car--just a more comfortable CTR. The weight is what really separates it from cars in its price bracket. Where the V is a muscle car, the ITS sticks to the JDM formula. Which makes sense. Personally, I'm glad both exist because while they serve different markets, they're at least serving enthusiast ones.
That was an excellent factual presentation of the accura integra. You did your research and it showed. Your passion for cars is admirable. I am considering one of these and was happy to find someone who could explain everything about it in a way that was easy to understand.
I own an F87 M2 Comp and have finally driven all three of the G87 M2, Civic Type-R, and Integra Type-S. I think the Type-S is my favorite overall, with noticeably sharper handling and better road feel than the BMWs. And the shifter is great. Where the Type-S and Type-R lose it to the BMWs is the engine. It's just not even in the same class. Yes, the Honda engine is plenty powerful, but it's peaky and gravely. The BMW inline-six engines are so much smoother and linear, and have non-stop thrust. They lunge forward in any gear, with consistent behavior. Once you get used to that, the Honda four-cyl engines seem very primitive. For sure, the Type-S feels fast in individual gears, but compared to the M2's consistent lunging power in *every* gear, it's no contest in my opinion. Overall I think the Type-S is better, but if you're thinking about acceleration and what you feel in the seat of the pants, the BMW is way ahead.
Automatics should have the start-stop button on the steering wheel so the driver may select when the start-stop happens Because more often than not in traffic jams, the car only stops for a second or two, and end up burning more fuel starting the engine again. If given the button in a convenient place at the steering wheel, the driver may judge based on the condition whether or not there is sufficient time for the engine to stay off in order to ensure fuel savings offset the fuel taken to restart the engine
Toyotas start stop system only engages when the brake is pressed firmly at a complete stop and disengages completely while in sport mode. Very seamless once you get used to it
I learned SO MANY things thanks to this fantastic video. You're not only a great teacher, Jason, you're also a great human being. Thanks for making UA-cam a very cool place to go.
Type S also sounds better than the Type R in my opinion (when doing the comparison). I daily drive the A-Spec and it's very nice (bonus: gets about 36 mpg, which is pretty good for the package it's offering).
Can confirm, this car is epic. My dad just bought one (had an FK8 before) and it's quite a jump. Cars that are truly fun to drive and move the game forward at the same time are very rare these days. The gold paint (tiger eye) is also stunning.
Spot on Fenske! As others have said, you can’t drive a spec sheet. Specs don’t reveal how the car behaves and can’t explain how you will or won’t connect with the car.
There is one phenomenal reason to choose the A-spec over the Type S. On highway-only drives, we get 40-42 MPG in ours. And during normal driving (city, highway, scumbaggin it on on-ramps, etc), we are very rarely under 30 MPG. Another issue with the Type S is that it’s priced closely enough to the Polestar 2, Kia EV6 GT, and Tesla Model3 Performance after the incentives.
Great review Jason as I've owned a 1997 Acura integra for 17+ years & loved the way the engineers got a FWD car to handle like it was on rails. Prices sure have pulled the new Integra Type S into another class.
It's funny this video popped up in my feed since I'm trying to decide between an M2 and a Type S (Wildcard is a Supra). I test drove a Type S but it was a really short (car belonged to someone) drive...but still it felt REALLY good. My biggest worry is will the engine give me the same feel as the BMW's...sounds like it might? I previously owned an M240i and the B58 is a monster of an engine. Still a bit confused on what to do. EXCELLENT video and thanks for the info. Sub'd.
@EngineeringExplained Yeah I had reservations about downgrading to a 4-cylinder but thought about it and if I could afford a Porsche the cheapest one I'd get would be a 4, and who makes a better 4-banger than Honda? Ugh decisions. Lol
About the auto start/stop: you say that that it’s unavoidable when you don’t need it, but in my 23 civic auto start stop only kicks in if you press the break hard, so you can kind of control it actually. The gauge cluster area tells you when you’re not pressing the brake hard enough for it to start stop.
The car is really well put together. Car has lots of potential. The price is high, needs a few amenities but car is solid. I don’t regret the purchase at all!!
Don't forget the BMW also has a prop shaft it has to spin in order to put the power down. The Honda doesn't have that, and thus reduced drivetrain losses.
This reminds me when I drove both an S2000 and NSX, the S2k put a grin on my face, the NSX might've been amazing, but viscerally it was boring, both essentially as capable as each other. It also reminds me of the days of cars that weighed just a ton with wonderful power to weight ratios. Finally your jokes landed well, I rarely chuckle to videos and you had me going multiple times.
Personally, after owning the aspec for 1 year and now the type s for a month, I think the shifter was slightly better in the aspec, and I disagree that the rev hang is less in the Type S. I’d say, if anything, it’s a little worse. Still though, the Type S is in a different league in terms of performance
I cannot believe you actually respond to comments given the sheer volume lol. Strangely, I owned the Aspec for 1 year and 3 months and never really noticed it even though I had read about it and learned about it from youtube reviews. The very first time I took the Type S to redline I realized I couldn't shift as quickly and when I did it again, assumed it was due to the rev hang. I am 1 month in with it and notice it every time now as its quite annoying. This is my personal experience though, maybe a fluke given the sample size is 1. Or perhaps there is less rev hang and its simply more difficult to shift quickly for a different reason. Insert hands up imoji@@EngineeringExplained
3:15 yeah I found your explanation about the acceleration feeling was cool, man. It is really fascinating how different numbers on paper can result in similar feel in practice.
I actually like the type r looks better, I feel like the fitment of the wheels in the type s’s “wide body” look weird. There’s still a lot of gap making it feel like the wide body was unnecessary. But I still love the type s. I have an old tl type s so it’s great to see an awesome Acura type s come back.
I think it’s a fair comparison. Last year, I was hoping for manual 230i but when they dropped it for the new generation I chose an Integra A-spec. Also, thanks for explaining the auto-start/stop with a manual. It works flawlessly and I wondered why people complain about it as I’ve never had it in an automatic. Your observations confirmed my suspicions.
Great video, as always. I really wish Acura had brought the 6 speed AWD manual transmission from the old TL Type-SH out of retirement for the Integra Type-S. This vehicle with the torque vectoring Super Handling All Wheel Drive (SH-AWD) system would be amazing. I'm still really surprised that neither Acura, nor anyone else that I'm aware of, has combined that manual transmission with a K23 engine from the RDX, since that engine had a special block casting compared to other K series engines so that it could mate up to the SH-AWD automatic transmission designed for the V6 that Acura put in its other AWD vehicles, like the TL Type-SH. Maybe that's the real way to go here. Buy the Integra A-spec, then use the $14,000 you save compared to the Type-S to swap in a rebuilt SH-AWD manual transmission and rear axle from the TL Type-SH, matched to a rebuilt K23 from an RDX, possibly modified with the newer/better heads from a Civic Type-R or an Integra Type-S. Depending on tuning, the longer stroke from the K23 could give you more low end torque and remove some of that turbo lag, or you could run a quasi Atkinson/Miller cycle setup for similar power and torque as the K20, but with better fuel efficiency. Man I wish I had the money and skills to attempt such a swap.
Excellent video! I especially appreciate the math with the practical examples. The story of torque isn't complete unless each of the torque multiplication (and division) factors are taken into account between the engine and the road, and you presented these key factors beautifully and concisely! Well done. Thanks for presenting this enjoyable and enlightening content!
"Everyone loves a giant wang (wing)" - Randy Pobst. Point one, CTR. On the other hand, speaking from experience in motorcycles, being more comfortable can contribute a lot more towards enjoyment and a little more toward performing better than a technically superior vehicle.
The type A and Civics with the 1.5 manual absolutely need a hondata tune and a street flywheel. Have both on my 8th gen Si and it makes shifting a joy. Rev hang can ruin a fun drive
The type S is my dream car. I don't need anything super fast, just quick enough for opening it up from time to time. I'll never be able to afford one, but whatever. Great video.
Goods good. 😂 Also, type S has a place for you to put your sunglasses in the overhead console. That's not in the Type R. It's the little things. I'm working on getting a Type S, however I wish they kept more of the creature comforts from the ASpec. That includes memory seats, rear USB charging ports, and (maybe) the sun roof. Also couldn't we have also gotten a flip down arm rest for the rear passengers?
13:47 I believe the number of seats have to do with suspension tuning parameters. If you have five seats, the suspension has to be tuned for up to five passengers.
It’s not just you, I wouldn’t pick a new M2 over the ITS either. It’s fat, ugly, and has a BMW manual which is a negative on its own. What’s funny is that I wouldn’t choose an ITS over the previous M2 or the 1M. That’s how bad this new M2 is to me. Me choosing the Integra Type S over the M2 isn’t a testament to Acura, it’s a knock on BMW. And that brings me to my point, for $60,000 I’d just look for a 1M.
I love my rear wheel drive, body on frame, sohc V8, non vvt Ford full size sedans. They just keep on running and they can be souped up into high performance cars with off the shelf parts from Ford SVT.
Jason, I appreciate your review. Because of your podcast primarily I bought a Type S. Several things; 1) Rev hang for up shifting is eliminated when the rev-match feature is turned off, another discovery is when rev-match is on double clutching up shifts will cancel the rev hang. 2) I am disappointed with the rev match technology, it only matches the clutch speed and does not match the gear speed so it relies on the synchros to match the gear speed. To minimize wear to the synchros and the clutch double clutching is required. Thanks for all your quality podcasts.
Hi, you confirm that this Integra Type S is a great car, your demonstration of the real torque at the wheels is very interesting, but for me Sarah's bean score is easier to understand and fun. I'm not comparing your 2 YT chains, that's complementary.
I know this will be lost in the comments, but I was looking up a video on carbs explained which was 11 years ago and watched that. Then I saw this now newest video, what a freaking change lol in a great way!
Love my A-Spec 6MT, possibly the best "fun but practical" car I've ever owned. Yeah mo powah would be nice and rev hang is lame, but it's torquey and feels much quicker than it is, sips gas, and has one of the best shifters ever.
Gee! Thanks a lot, Jason! It's not like we were having trouble getting the Acura for a decent price... thanks for making the case for it. In all seriousness: very well made video and makes a very good argument
@@EngineeringExplained its very slow for the price you had to pay. Anything that costs $50k+ and barely runs a high 14 second 1/4 mile is painfully slow and over priced.
@nomenclature9607 I have 12k less in a car that would run rings around a new Acura. Fact. A '23 HPP/HP with an A10. On stock Corsa's I destroy Type R's on any track, for far less $ and look better doing it. Enjoy your lack of traction and bloated slow overpriced Japano ride dude, most of the world outside of your kind laughs at you and how slow you really are for the overprice you end up paying.
"Slow" Says the person who completely missed the calculation of second gear acceleration force, lol. Not that it's fast, but it's not that slow (no slower than the BMW M2 in second gear). The ol' "I only care about the spec sheet and 0-60 and 1/4 mile" folks with their real sophisticated analysis... Meanwhile "I bought the Mk7 Golf R, why does it not feel fast when it has a fast 0-60 mph?" -- gee that it only has 145W/kg compared to FK8 Civic Type R 165 W/kg, might have something to do with it (the FK8 was actually just as fast as the 600hp version of the Chevy SS, HSV GTS, from 80-120 km/hr)...
@@michaelfried3123 "high 14 second"? The quoted numbers were 13.7-13.8s, which is nearly as quick as the Mk3 Focus RS which is all wheel drive (low to mid 13s range). To be fair, the Focus RS is very heavy and not as fast as it should be for having 350hp. (Also the Focus doesn't actually produce the full 350hp until 3rd gear IIRC.)
The ITS suspension module (ADS unit) is plug-n-play in the CTR, which both use the same dampers. This $218 mod gives the CTR the ITS suspension damping, identical.
Thank to for this great review! Many of the Type S reviews focus just on doing 1:1 comparisons and thankfully you do the one I've been hoping for and comparing with the A Spec, since I'm trying to choose between the two. Your explanation of the torque and G force was really done.
My daily a 07 TL type s. Has Bolt ons. But what makes the difference Aluminum shifter box and replace all bushings with solid or bearings. Just a treat to row thru the gears.
I discovered the whole start-stop on MT cars thing when I got my F55 Mini Cooper, that said, I almost always turned it off, and in that car it would STAY OFF between power cycles.
This thing is simply fantastic; in the joy-to-drive category, I'd rank it above Toyota Supra, Nissan Z, and yeah, surprisingly, even the M2. If you want a better experience than the Type S, you're looking at MX-5, Cayman, and Corvette Z06. I'd rank it pretty equally with GR Corolla. *What a machine.* Save the manuals!
What about vs a GR86?
What about the S2000? 😉
@@LingLing1337 It seems to vary on preference, but other guys like The Car Care Nut (he was a mechanic at a Toyota dealership before setting up his own shop) figure GR86 is overshadowed by the GR Corolla having more seats/room for why it is a better value proposition. Assuming both were available in the ballpark of MSRP these days. Another of the guys makes the GR Corolla seem among the ultimate fun toys this year while even the name Integra Type S just sounds more formal and dignified..
PS On that preference: If I needed to buy something right now, I was leaning toward the Acura Integra initially. Mazda seems the right mix based upon what I'd want and see as actually available. While I don't necessarily need to finance, getting something on attractive terms works good too!
If you had to choose though, GR Corolla or Type S and why?
@@jacksonbrusseaux4754 Assuming no markups on both sides (lol), GR Corolla is probably better value, as you can get in it significantly cheaper. Personally, I'd probably take the Corolla because I need AWD like 5-6 months of the year, but if I lived in a place with no snowy mountain roads, I'd be stoked on the Integra.
Jason, it never stops being impressive how you make such unique videos using the same press cars everyone else gets. This channel gets better all the time.
Truly, this is what I strive for, and it’s so rewarding to hear this - thank you!!
Totally agree
@@EngineeringExplainedIt's fun to see you get more 'loose' with the humor and see your personality shine as the years go on 😊🎉
sycophant
As a retired engineer I think your videos are absolutely fantastic.
As a retired engineer I think your videos are absolutely fantastic.
right on!
As a homeless drug dealer I think your comment is fantastic.
He got me with the banana chock
As someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, I agreecas well.
It's insane how heavy the new M2 is. It's approaching the same weight as a base model Dodge Charger.
Pretty sure it's an M4 with about 4 inches chopped from the wheelbase.
They brought the i6 back in the beemer?
When I was first getting into car culture (E46 M3 era), the M3 was all anyone could talk about. It's a bummer that it doesn't still hold that same reputation.
The M2 despite its weight, will definitely take a collision much better.
That’s f87 m2c comp is great value, new one is capable but doesn’t look anywhere as good as old m2.
After selling my 2018 Civic Type R prematurely (sold around 20k miles), I have wanted one again. Dealer markups and shenanigans pushed me away. So when the FL5/CTR was announced, I was excited but quickly came to reality with not only an already inflated MSRP, but dealer markup on top of that. Then the Integra Type S rumors and spy shots started popping up, it quickly piqued my interest. Knowing that Acura dealers are more fair, I thought I would have a better shot at getting one over the CTR. Now over one month later of owning an identical Integra Type S from this video, I can say I am so happy I couldn't get a Type R again. THIS was the car I was looking for. And for all the exact same reasons outlined in this video. I'd love to see more geeky breakdowns of torque and power to weight = fun factor. Great video overall!
Congrats on your teg!
Keep this one and pay it off and drive it until the wheels fall off. Monthly payments that never end are the road to poverty.
Acura dealers are the ABSOLUTE WORST luxury dealer I have EVER dealt with. Buying one brand new Acura (the RSX Type-S) was enough for me. If you compare Acura to mainstream brands, they are midpack. Honda is no better, but I've never bought a honda and never EVER will. Honda is horrible. Acura is worse relative to what you'd expect. Good luck with any warranty work... expect to be denied, denied, denied. Especially when you have major issues like the drivetrain. Keep it all stock like I did (don't even tint the windows), is my best recommendation, and expect to spend $20k in maintenance and repairs in your 1st 5 years of ownership.
22 years later, and 99.5k miles, and I still own my RSX-S.
@@copperkeyracing6167 While you obviously had a bad experience not all Honda and Acura owners have similar ones. My Honda Civic had a small transmission problem during the warranty period and Honda replaced the entire transmission under warranty.
@@josephsmith594 I just finished writing my experience with Acura in reply to another post. Here you go...
They screwed all the owners by fighting each one of them in court [in regards to the major issue which wasn't warrantied but should have been]. That's the way these things work. They decide between which is cheaper, 1) fight each of them in court, or 2) declare a TSB or recall. A recall is for a safety issue like the engine going up in flames, which didn't happen enough times in this case. A TSB is non-safety, but they admit to the issue and need to have all the cars come back to the dealership for repairs. If they feel they will be forced to fix all the cars eventually, then the cheaper option is to fix the car than pay for lawyers. They also take into consideration the damage to the brand image, and model image, due to bad publicity.
They decided to throw the money at lawyers than fix the issue with the cars. Obviously this hurt the brand and model image, and resale values. Hence here we are today discussing the Acura brand and the Integra/RSX model image.
TSB=Technical Service Bulletin (from google, "information sent from a manufacturer to service centers that describes a specific problem with a particular vehicle. It typically also includes an explanation as to how to correct the issue in terms of repair, software reflash, or modification of the automobile.").
Attorney General only helps in lemon law cases, which has its requirements, like "did the issue reoccur 3 times or more? Did it happen with 12months?" In most of these cases, the engine blew up once, the dealer didn't fix it, the owner was out $20k (adjusted for inflation), and then he sold the car once fixed at a huge loss.
When I went up against Honda/Acura, they basically told me, "They cover the 1st engine on the 1st owner sometimes, and they fight the rest 100% of the time. They do the "sometimes" because they don't want bad publicity/retaliation from owners or prospective owners." There are some that had the engine blow up on them 3 or more times in the first 2years, completely stock, completely no mods, except wheels and a tint, which was very common in 2002. Mods like those was a big red flag, and grounds for denial. Those were my mods, actually, and they accused me of burning through the stock 16" tires, and that's why I had 17s. They accused me that having a tint meant that I had gauges and a nitrous setup. LOL
I still own the car, and in 22years, it happened 2 times for me in the first 5years. The 1st time was when I had it for 1.5years. I bought a 2nd gen '93 Integra as a beater, meanwhile my NEW Acura sat there for 1.5years, broken in my driveway. The problem was solved through the forums.
The shop foreman at the dealership, oddly enough, was on my side the entire time. He told me 3k cars with the issue were brought in to dealers the first year of it being on the market. 6k cars the 2nd year on the market. 9k cars the 3rd year on the market. 12k cars the 4th year on the market. And finally, 15k cars the 5th year on the market. They stopped selling them at that point, with a total of 45 thousand cars brought in to the dealership with the issue. There was obviously more that were never taken to the dealership because they already knew the outcome, and took it elsewhere to get another engine put in. You can easily double that number, and round up to 100 thousand. All this was swept under the rug, and owners who had the issue were laughed at initially... and if you notice, no more Integra/RSX for 17years, and they got rid of the RSX name [and went back to Integra] because that name was obviously damaged... yet we still have RLX/TLX/RDX/MDX/ZDX, and not Legend, Vigor, etc.
The car now has just under 100k miles, and very well kept as always. I went through hell with the car, but it's perfect now, in my eyes. It has all the dealer aftermarket options from day 1, ASPEC body kit, ASPEC suspension, JDM HIDs, JDM ITR wheels, dealer option wing, dealer installed foglights, interior trim kit, ITR swap (since the original motor & transmission went bye bye).
I ended up going with a GR Corolla due to the AWD being more fun in the snow where I live, but there's no doubt that Honda has knocked it out of the park with these cars. I'm glad that the hot hatch, which was looking in pretty dire straits a few years ago, is going out with a bang with these three cars.
GR Corolla is exceptional, congrats on your ride!
In my case, I went with the WRX for AWD. I wanted a GR Corolla, but the backseat space is tiny, and of course, the markups
@darkrulieruntil a strange knocking sound comes from the engine
@darkrulierhead gasket has left the chat.
@@mistamaog I heavily considered on settling for a WRX if I got hit with markup or dealer ads on the GRC. But I ultimately was able to get exactly what I wanted for msrp. Loaded Core in white.
Jason, I'm from Brazil and your videos are just fantastic to a car enthusiast! Here we don't have that type of details and explanation. Congrats, my friend.
Happy to hear you enjoy it, thanks for watching!
“Super solid daily” is a perfect summary of the A-Spec. I’ve had mine since January and have 23,000 miles on it. I struggle to see below 36 MPG, and often cruise highways at 40 MPG. The important parts are all there: adequate (not fantastic) power, shortly geared transmission and fantastically actuating shifter, gobs of space (jammed a 27.5” mountain bike in it with the seats down), and decent creature comforts like heated seats and a great sound system.
Got the Aspec last year, yup pretty solid…
Damn I'm getting 32 in mine lol
I had 2 29er mountain bikes in my 2018 accord sedan. Miss that car, a deer kamikaze’d it
Wtf my hybrid camry only getting 37 😭
My 2020 civic si is exactly the same and it cost 15k less
I’ve got 10,000 miles on my A-Spec and am quite pleased so far. It’s sporty but practical. This is the first that anyone’s clearly explained the benefit of auto engine shut off with the manual. Well done.
It’s a very easy decision when you’re putting around town. Watch the lights, put in the clutch before you get a green and viola’ off we go.
i really miss my 1990 Integra it was bullet proof and so fun to drive even pulled a small utility trailer loaded with dirt bikes and canoe no problem!
I loved mine, despite it's addiction to burning oil! Super practical, and good fun.
@@EngineeringExplained Haha I remember the oil burning in my old GSR, I would carry a quart in the trunk at all times. Ran great despite that.
Wish all car manufacturers would have a peak acceleration g-force stat for every gear.
I love that gen when did you bought the integra
had so many fun road trips and year round daily use in that car was fantastic in Alberta winters@@reymenders5437 purchased it in 2000 from a nice lady got side swiped and totaled by f150 in 2018. during recovery i joined the darkside and purchased a 2004 f150 543 lol
Admit it. You chose it because of the 5 more hp.
Seems he could have saved a lot of money by just adding a decal to CTR?!
@@pushslice good luck finding a CTR for less than this car.
I wish they hadn’t cheaped out on the interior components on the type s. The civic touring has higher quality stuff which is really odd
@MurderMostFowl there's a mode for the interior where you can swap the civic touring center console to get vents and usbs
The way you can take a math-y, technical subject and make it as interesting and real-world-applicable as you do is genuinely impressive. There’s no other channel that covers these vehicles like you do. Then again, I am an engineer so I love this stuff. Keep the amazing content coming.
So kind, glad you enjoyed it, thanks!! 🙏🙏
This is the first Type-S vs A-Spec comparison I've seen, and man was it in-depth. You can tell this video was really thought out. Keep em coming.
Thanks for the kind words!
You turned beans into a math equation 😳
It's a reoccurring problem of mine. 😭
Despite not being from an aerospace engineering background...he didn't turn beans into a beauty pageant contest lol
These are exactly the kind of car reviews we want man! You are absolutely nailing it buddy! Good job.
12:40 In my automatic '22 Civic, which has start/stop, I avoid this situation all the time by coming to a stop and not pressing the brake pedal all the way down. The gauge cluster screen will say along the lines of "Start/Stop disabled, fully press brake pedal to engage", so it's designed into the system to be able to stop and keep the engine on if desired. Also if you ever come to a quick stop, say in an emergency, the engine stays on if you need to move quickly again, say to get out of the way of someone on their phone about to rear end you in traffic. Reading the owner's manual (like a yellowbelly), there's a lot of conditions that need to be met for the engine to turn itself off, so I love the system in my car knowing that Honda's engineers really put thought into it.
Too bad there isn't an option to disable this function
@@mengx94what do you mean? If you mean disabling the start/stop feature, you can indeed do that. There is of course the button but you can also turn it off within the settings.
I already have a habit of turning it off when I start driving. I have a "23 Accord EX.
@@lllSavitarlllwaw too bad op doesn't realize this
Honda has always made incredible gearboxes. I also love the fact they allow you to disable rev matching. Nothing is more gratifying than hitting a perfect rev match with the heel/toe technique. Thank you Honda for continuing to make incredible drivers cars for the regular every day car enthusiast
I don't even know why MT have auto rev matching, absolutely disgusting. What's the point of it being a MT if you aren't even doing anything other than mindlessly stomping the clutch and wanking a gear lever. It's essentially just a fake MT car at that point.
True but I wish that my lovely 2006 Acura TSX 6 speed manual had it for those moments where I just want to do a little less but still enjoy driving the car. i.e. traffic situations, etc @@username8644
@@username8644 for sales, obviously. They believe there's a market for it because in some countries hardly anyone drive MT cars. I don't honestly think this feature is something the company would choose to include if they were trying to make the best driver's car alone. But then again, sometimes the Japanese can be weird with things
If I had a need for a fun commuter and second family car, I would definitely consider this, considering how much praise it gets.
Can you do a video to explain why new cars are so heavy? As in, which parts of the M2 contribute to 3800lbs? Same for the new Mustang Dark Horse. The Dark Horse is 200lbs heavier than the Mach 1, but they seem identical. Where did those 200lbs come from?
Would be a great video. Cars are using more and more exotic materials in an effort to chase weight down and engines are almost exclusively aluminum, yet they have trouble offering weight savings over early millennia cars with iron engines and stamped steel.
Two words : Safety regulations
@@invictusaeternum Exactly! I'm pretty sure the Mustang engine is lighter than most 4-cylinder engines from the 90s, by a good margin, but the whole car just keeps getting heavier..
@@kristijandimovski410 I believe that safety regulations contribute, but I'm not convinced that it's the majority of the increase. All cars are subject to the same regulations, but some (like the Miata) haven't gained nearly as much weight. Even comparing the Integra to the Mustang, it would be interesting to know where the difference in weight comes from. It can't be all in the powertrain. Also, I don't think that explains the weight gain for the M2, since regulations didn't change that much in 2 years.
3800 lbs is insane for a sports car, about the weight of my 1989 Chevy C1500 full size pick up.
Thanks for explaining the rev hang! I have a 2018 Civic Sport 6MT (same engine family) and some days just can't seem to shift smoothly despite my best efforts. No rev match like the Acura but this helps. Great video as always 👍
I had a 2012 Honda Accord that had awful rev hang, which is the primary reason I ended up getting rid of it.
Yeah that rev hang has been there since the 8th Gen civic si.
You have to factor in the torque curve of both vehicles, it's entirely possible the integra has a large bump in torque down low that would actually make more effective power at that rpm than the m2. I see a lot of people misunderstand this by just comparing the 2 MAXIMUM numbers together. You can compare them but you need to compare the numbers at the same rpm. Once you factor in final drive you do the same calculation and I'm sure it will show the integra makes more wheel torque than the m2 at the point in the rpm range.
I did, they have similar curves. For reference, both are compared at 3,000 RPM (though not stated in the video).
He’s comparing their peak acceleration in 2nd gear though, so it actually makes sense. Peak acceleration does happen at max torque for both cars.
@@EngineeringExplained hahaha yeah sorry for making it sound that way I wasn't shooting at you more at the people who will always reference the peak horsepower as the metric for how fast the car is. I agree with the entire video I actually went through all the calculations myself again! Looks good!
Glad you appreciate the ITS as much as I do. One test drive was all it took to completely sell me on this car as the most well-rounded sub-$70k (debatable) everyday performance vehicle on sale today.
Regarding damping, you can put the Integra Type S ADS module into the Civic Type R to get softer damping in every mode.
I love this guy. What an informative sensible review.
Appreciate the kind words!
Your videos consistently show the rare combination of true car enthusiasm with proper objective thinking as a real engineer.
Great review! My first car was also an Integra, a GS-R. I still remember how I dreamed of the DC2 ITR through college. I wish they labeled this one as a Type-R too - I know it shouldn’t matter that much and there’s marketing and all with Acura’s side, but as a Honda enthusiast in the 90s, the heritage that the Type-R has, the badging, the Championship White, those all carry a lot of feelings. Would love to have this or the CTR tho! 👊🏼
Jason, please do a video about the "dilemma zone" when approaching a traffic light. In other words, when the light turns yellow and you have two options; slam on the breaks or speed through a red light. Thanks
Hahahah I second this, this would be awesome
Thanks for the spirited review... well done. Regarding the auto stop/start, many automatic ICE cars that I have driven with this feature activated will shut the engine off at a complete stop after a second or so, but the engine restart comes while I'm releasing the brake. By the time my foot gets to the throttle, the engine would already be idling for that fraction of a second. The startup lag would be almost imperceptible if the starting engine was more graceful. Always a joy to watch and learn from you!
They have gotten a lot better at it. We have the latest model Rangers and they have them and work pretty well.
@5:13 "Mechanical Sympathy" is basically why a magazine like Consumer Reports can't get launch times like Car and Driver can.
This is a GREAT video. I've been performing these exact calcs on my own spreadsheet for years. Our 2023 BRZ Manual manages to *feel* as torquey as my 2015 Mustang V6 Auto in 2nd Gear and actually more torquey in 3rd and 4th Gears, because of gearing (including tire diameter) and weight. The Mustang's gearing holds on longer (higher road speed) so it can essentially make up the difference in a 1:1 acceleration test where redline is being reached. But in the real world the torque push is the gratifying part, and the real world also imposes things like safety concerns, legal concerns, and mechanical sympathy.
There are also nuances like driveline losses caused by transmission, flywheel, driveshaft (FWD vs. RWD), etc. as well as rotational inertia of the wheels / tires / brakes and unsprung weight. Frontal area, aerodynamics, immediacy of throttle response, traction and traction control, differential lockup, and finally the subjective factors (sound, coupe vs. open air, visibility and height from the ground, NVH, ride, etc.). And then of course you have to consider the entirety of the torque curve rather than just the peak number, and other factors like turbo lag, variable valve timing, etc. But total weight and total gearing are the two most important factors mitigating torque to weight.
Here's another example. A while back I showed a buddy why a V6 Manual Camaro (3.649 liter) driven by me might actually feel stronger than his V8 Manual Camaro (6.162 liter) driven by him, at least in first gear. I used displacement, not actual torque figures (easier since they're both NA), but anyway the V6 is on 245/40-18s (instead of stock 245/50-18s) while the V8 is on 275/35-20s -- score about 7% for the V6. My buddy weighs 220 and I weigh 150, and when you factor in the weight of the cars and drivers that's another 9% for the V6. Finally you have gearing, where the V6 is a 14.388 and the V8 is a 9.9218 in 1st Gear -- a whopping 45% for the V6. Put it all together and the V6 with me in it actually has slightly more effective displacement / weight than the V8 with him in it.
Of course, the V6 only gets to 38.3 mph in 1st Gear at the rev limiter (7200) while the V8 gets to 56.3 mph in 1st Gear at the limiter (6600), so it does a lot more as far as road speed with almost the same push into the seat. By 2nd Gear the V8's gearing gives it about a 10% advantage, but 2nd is 86 mph at rev limit in the V8, so it's starting to hit that point where the artificial limitations of safety / legality / not being anti-social creep in. The V6 lets you use more gears, more rev range, or more throttle opening, or a combination of all three, before you hit the reasonable person limits.
I had a 2019 TLX A Spec V6 AWD for a year before a security guard totaled it in a parking lot. It was such a fun car to drive daily with the AWD display that looked like the Knight Rider voicebox showing the power distribution. I would have jumped right back into another one but the fuel economy was not good at all and prices had gone through the roof.
I have the Integra A-Spec manual, and the most important thing about it for me is the helical limited slip. It PULLS you through corners with a ferocity that leaves you feeling like you're driving a much faster car. It can really fly through corners and curves in a way a lot of cars simply can't. It also has an even softer ride than the Type-S, but even then the ride is quite stiff. I actually traded in a 2022 Civic Si for the Integra A-Spec specifically for the softer ride and creature comforts.
I'll also point out that Hondata measured the performance of both of these cars on their dyno, and compared with the previous Si (10th generation) it seems like Honda decided to start being extra humble in their spec sheets. The new Integra A-Spec was making closer to 230hp, and the new Type-S is making close to 340hp. This was on a hub dyno and adjusted to try and calculate for crank horsepower, so many people are assuming Honda is now reporting wheel horsepower in their spec sheets.
The new GR86 is also pretty close to rated HP at the wheels. roughly half way between the stated and what you'd expect based on rwd losses.
@@wayward03 maybe a new gentleman’s agreement?
Ive been a passive Acura fan since introduction. You're pushing me toward active.
You just added another 10k markup on these. thanks Jason
Like you, my first car (that I bought myself) was an Integra... but mine was the OG 1987 edition. It was the NA 8000+ redline and sublime shifter that made for a perfect experience and to this day one of my favorite cars I've ever owned. But your memories of your first Integra are rose-colored compared to the modern A-Spec which is absolutely a much better car.
Well executed video Jason! I love how you mention the gearing it is so true. It really makes a car much more engaging to drive, especially when it is a car like the type S! Unfortunately, I will be sticking to my 1991 Integra until it dies :)
Great review! Love the style. Your video spoke to me in that I am now driving an auto M2 and was conflicted with trading for the Integra Type S. M2 does everything well, not quite my cup of tea with regards to the appearance, but after lowering it, adding spacers and a mid pipe the car looks, sounds and feels overall great. With that said, I unfortunately took the Type S for a test drive. Was blow away with everything about the car, but when I got back to dealership I parked next to my M2. It just didn't feel as special, so I left the dealer and decided I'll keep the M2. But after a few restless nights pining to get back into the Integra Type S, I decided to do what every responsible adult who clearly only needs one car should do. I bought the Type S as my weekend wingman and set to pickup next week after they swap in the black badging and sexy copper wheels. But as logical and responsible person, I'll assess both cars over the next few months and decide which one truly captures my right foot. Maybe I'll let one go, or maybe keep both. Either way, I'm looking forward to the drive.
Ha, amazing, congrats on the new ride!
You make amazing content! I cant believe we have to call these things a 5 door! Maybe I am just getting old but the 5th door was easy access and usually more space. does not look like I would be able to carry anything more than a normal sedan with fold away seats would. I mean I dont even think the dog would want to be back there it looks small. video never makes it easy to compare. keep up the great work!
EE because of your influence. I bought my son a 2023 Crosstrek Manual. His first car. Pure Red 6 speed. Thank you.
You forgot something about the price... Nobody sells a Type R at MSRP, the markups range from 5K to 25K ... So in the end that's very much favoring the Acura maybe even price-wise ...
I found plenty down where im at at base msrp barely a couple hundred or couple thousand upsell. But that was when they first came out, now with demand i see them a bit taxed 😓
I'm not saying you can get one at MSRP everywhere, but things are turning around. The fools that wanted to pay $20k+ markups are broke now or already have something. Time for the rest of us to buy.
I've been watching your videos for a LONG time. I just wanted to say your skills in production, video, and everything related has become amazing over time. Keep that in mind and keep it up! Thank you for being you.
With markups, I would honestly doubt it's in a different price bracket
One of these just failed to flip on Cars & Bids - hopefully the times are changing.
I've contacted 3 or 4 dealerships on one of these and not one was charging a markup.
YMMV but Acura dealers seem better than other brands about not adding ADMs
@@EngineeringExplainedhaha you saw that too! $49,500 for an ITS with zero options (except the color)
Why do you believe markups only apply to this car? Pretty much everything is marked up, including used cars. People are just using this as an excuse to dog on this car. In my case, the Acura dealer is offering at MSRP.
Excellent video Jason. I just sold my 2021 Lexus IS F 350 with only 7,500 miles and I’m kind of regretting it. I never thought about an Acura Type S but after watching your video I’m gonna go and test drive one and see how I like it. I did consider the Toyota Corolla GR because of the AWD and the horse power. Thank you for the explanation and the video.
It costs 50k+. There's a lot of cool cars for this price - not only Honda.
Here's the kicker: look for sedans/liftback, manual, close to 3000lb, comfortable, and +300hp at $50k. It's a very short list.
@@WhatisaLeeWith the markups, might as well get one of the blackwing brothers from Cadillac
@@WhatisaLeeCan you search by vehicle weight? I only know 1 person that can drive a manual, spoiler its myself. That price point is today's market, I bought my Ford Focus St for under 30K in 2018, all of those hit the mark except its down 50hp. So have cars REALLY changed that much, maybe the inside, but most people just want a car that works.
@@fortheloveofnoise do dealer markups not apply to other cars
@@fortheloveofnoise You're not wrong. It's RWD and +400hp. Probably better NVH too. But it's also 4000lb. And as a GM product, there are concerns about reliability, even if unfounded.
Considering the drawbacks of the ITR in comparison:
- The FWD drivetrain seems to be tuned well enough to avoid common pitfalls like torque steer, understeer at limits, and poor launch dynamics.
- 400hp is fun but 300hp is more than enough for everyday use.
- As for NVH, it's not marketed as a GT car--just a more comfortable CTR.
The weight is what really separates it from cars in its price bracket. Where the V is a muscle car, the ITS sticks to the JDM formula. Which makes sense.
Personally, I'm glad both exist because while they serve different markets, they're at least serving enthusiast ones.
That was an excellent factual presentation of the accura integra. You did your research and it showed. Your passion for cars is admirable. I am considering one of these and was happy to find someone who could explain everything about it in a way that was easy to understand.
We will look back at this car as a special vehicle. I think the Type R and Type S will hold their values very well in the future.
I own an F87 M2 Comp and have finally driven all three of the G87 M2, Civic Type-R, and Integra Type-S. I think the Type-S is my favorite overall, with noticeably sharper handling and better road feel than the BMWs. And the shifter is great. Where the Type-S and Type-R lose it to the BMWs is the engine. It's just not even in the same class. Yes, the Honda engine is plenty powerful, but it's peaky and gravely. The BMW inline-six engines are so much smoother and linear, and have non-stop thrust. They lunge forward in any gear, with consistent behavior. Once you get used to that, the Honda four-cyl engines seem very primitive.
For sure, the Type-S feels fast in individual gears, but compared to the M2's consistent lunging power in *every* gear, it's no contest in my opinion. Overall I think the Type-S is better, but if you're thinking about acceleration and what you feel in the seat of the pants, the BMW is way ahead.
Automatics should have the start-stop button on the steering wheel so the driver may select when the start-stop happens
Because more often than not in traffic jams, the car only stops for a second or two, and end up burning more fuel starting the engine again.
If given the button in a convenient place at the steering wheel, the driver may judge based on the condition whether or not there is sufficient time for the engine to stay off in order to ensure fuel savings offset the fuel taken to restart the engine
Toyotas start stop system only engages when the brake is pressed firmly at a complete stop and disengages completely while in sport mode. Very seamless once you get used to it
The start stop doesn't turn on when the steering is turned in the BMW.
Put in manual mode to solve this, I utilize more engine braking for these kind of scenarios.
I learned SO MANY things thanks to this fantastic video. You're not only a great teacher, Jason, you're also a great human being. Thanks for making UA-cam a very cool place to go.
Wow, what a joyful comment, thank you!!
Type S also sounds better than the Type R in my opinion (when doing the comparison). I daily drive the A-Spec and it's very nice (bonus: gets about 36 mpg, which is pretty good for the package it's offering).
You are so obviously a Mechanical Engineer, and a much better one than myself. Your analysis are so useful.
Can confirm, this car is epic. My dad just bought one (had an FK8 before) and it's quite a jump. Cars that are truly fun to drive and move the game forward at the same time are very rare these days. The gold paint (tiger eye) is also stunning.
I haven't watched an Engineering Explained video in a couple of years, Jason has really leveled up his game.
Just based on the looks alone, I'd pick the Type S every time. Different story for the F87.
Spot on Fenske! As others have said, you can’t drive a spec sheet. Specs don’t reveal how the car behaves and can’t explain how you will or won’t connect with the car.
Fantastic overview and I agree, the Type S is phenomenal and I'd take it over the Type R based on looks alone.
Now is probably an excellent time to announce that I f**ing love this channel. 🤙
Thanks Troy, really appreciate it!
There is one phenomenal reason to choose the A-spec over the Type S. On highway-only drives, we get 40-42 MPG in ours. And during normal driving (city, highway, scumbaggin it on on-ramps, etc), we are very rarely under 30 MPG.
Another issue with the Type S is that it’s priced closely enough to the Polestar 2, Kia EV6 GT, and Tesla Model3 Performance after the incentives.
Just bought a type s today and trust me I would never pay for a car I couldn't shift that's who this car is made for not ev lovers
Mpg. Get a Prius.
Great review Jason as I've owned a 1997 Acura integra for 17+ years & loved the way the engineers got a FWD car to handle like it was on rails. Prices sure have pulled the new Integra Type S into another class.
It's funny this video popped up in my feed since I'm trying to decide between an M2 and a Type S (Wildcard is a Supra). I test drove a Type S but it was a really short (car belonged to someone) drive...but still it felt REALLY good. My biggest worry is will the engine give me the same feel as the BMW's...sounds like it might? I previously owned an M240i and the B58 is a monster of an engine. Still a bit confused on what to do.
EXCELLENT video and thanks for the info. Sub'd.
If you and your family fit in a Supra it’s an easy decision 😏
Among your three options you're looking at, I'd go Type S. Regardless, you're going to have some fun haha.
@EngineeringExplained Yeah I had reservations about downgrading to a 4-cylinder but thought about it and if I could afford a Porsche the cheapest one I'd get would be a 4, and who makes a better 4-banger than Honda? Ugh decisions. Lol
@@woocoheed What makes you say that?
why not a ct4 blackwing?
About the auto start/stop: you say that that it’s unavoidable when you don’t need it, but in my 23 civic auto start stop only kicks in if you press the break hard, so you can kind of control it actually. The gauge cluster area tells you when you’re not pressing the brake hard enough for it to start stop.
The car is really well put together. Car has lots of potential. The price is high, needs a few amenities but car is solid. I don’t regret the purchase at all!!
This is one of your best videos Jason
The Type S also sounds better than the CTR!
And It's real sound. Most reviews that I've seen say that the Type-R has more fake engine sound piped in through the speakers.
Your mathematics explaining the torque and acceleration vs power to weight vs gearing ratio was really cool.
Don't forget the BMW also has a prop shaft it has to spin in order to put the power down. The Honda doesn't have that, and thus reduced drivetrain losses.
This reminds me when I drove both an S2000 and NSX, the S2k put a grin on my face, the NSX might've been amazing, but viscerally it was boring, both essentially as capable as each other.
It also reminds me of the days of cars that weighed just a ton with wonderful power to weight ratios.
Finally your jokes landed well, I rarely chuckle to videos and you had me going multiple times.
Personally, after owning the aspec for 1 year and now the type s for a month, I think the shifter was slightly better in the aspec, and I disagree that the rev hang is less in the Type S. I’d say, if anything, it’s a little worse. Still though, the Type S is in a different league in terms of performance
I've driven Civic Si & Type R, and A-Spec & Type S, all with manual. In both cases, the 1.5L has considerably more rev-hang than the 2.0L.
I cannot believe you actually respond to comments given the sheer volume lol. Strangely, I owned the Aspec for 1 year and 3 months and never really noticed it even though I had read about it and learned about it from youtube reviews. The very first time I took the Type S to redline I realized I couldn't shift as quickly and when I did it again, assumed it was due to the rev hang. I am 1 month in with it and notice it every time now as its quite annoying. This is my personal experience though, maybe a fluke given the sample size is 1. Or perhaps there is less rev hang and its simply more difficult to shift quickly for a different reason. Insert hands up imoji@@EngineeringExplained
3:15 yeah I found your explanation about the acceleration feeling was cool, man. It is really fascinating how different numbers on paper can result in similar feel in practice.
I actually like the type r looks better, I feel like the fitment of the wheels in the type s’s “wide body” look weird. There’s still a lot of gap making it feel like the wide body was unnecessary. But I still love the type s. I have an old tl type s so it’s great to see an awesome Acura type s come back.
I think it’s a fair comparison. Last year, I was hoping for manual 230i but when they dropped it for the new generation I chose an Integra A-spec.
Also, thanks for explaining the auto-start/stop with a manual. It works flawlessly and I wondered why people complain about it as I’ve never had it in an automatic. Your observations confirmed my suspicions.
Great video, as always. I really wish Acura had brought the 6 speed AWD manual transmission from the old TL Type-SH out of retirement for the Integra Type-S. This vehicle with the torque vectoring Super Handling All Wheel Drive (SH-AWD) system would be amazing. I'm still really surprised that neither Acura, nor anyone else that I'm aware of, has combined that manual transmission with a K23 engine from the RDX, since that engine had a special block casting compared to other K series engines so that it could mate up to the SH-AWD automatic transmission designed for the V6 that Acura put in its other AWD vehicles, like the TL Type-SH.
Maybe that's the real way to go here. Buy the Integra A-spec, then use the $14,000 you save compared to the Type-S to swap in a rebuilt SH-AWD manual transmission and rear axle from the TL Type-SH, matched to a rebuilt K23 from an RDX, possibly modified with the newer/better heads from a Civic Type-R or an Integra Type-S. Depending on tuning, the longer stroke from the K23 could give you more low end torque and remove some of that turbo lag, or you could run a quasi Atkinson/Miller cycle setup for similar power and torque as the K20, but with better fuel efficiency. Man I wish I had the money and skills to attempt such a swap.
This is a very rounded review of the intergrate. I'm impressed and love the way you present the information and thoughts.
Excellent video! I especially appreciate the math with the practical examples. The story of torque isn't complete unless each of the torque multiplication (and division) factors are taken into account between the engine and the road, and you presented these key factors beautifully and concisely! Well done. Thanks for presenting this enjoyable and enlightening content!
"Everyone loves a giant wang (wing)" - Randy Pobst. Point one, CTR.
On the other hand, speaking from experience in motorcycles, being more comfortable can contribute a lot more towards enjoyment and a little more toward performing better than a technically superior vehicle.
I guess I'm not everyone, because I hate the wing.
The type A and Civics with the 1.5 manual absolutely need a hondata tune and a street flywheel. Have both on my 8th gen Si and it makes shifting a joy. Rev hang can ruin a fun drive
*Banana width tires* 🍌
Banana for scale really is the unsung hero and tied the whole video together
The type S is my dream car. I don't need anything super fast, just quick enough for opening it up from time to time. I'll never be able to afford one, but whatever. Great video.
Goods good. 😂
Also, type S has a place for you to put your sunglasses in the overhead console. That's not in the Type R. It's the little things.
I'm working on getting a Type S, however I wish they kept more of the creature comforts from the ASpec. That includes memory seats, rear USB charging ports, and (maybe) the sun roof. Also couldn't we have also gotten a flip down arm rest for the rear passengers?
As always, a great review by understanding the engineering behind it. Thanks for sharing!👍👍
Very disappointed.... NO WHITE BOARD! What.... budget cuts? Or are you an imposter....
Boss says I was addicted so I'm trying to branch out.
Addicted to the boards or inhaling dry erase markers? 😂
13:47 I believe the number of seats have to do with suspension tuning parameters. If you have five seats, the suspension has to be tuned for up to five passengers.
It’s not just you, I wouldn’t pick a new M2 over the ITS either. It’s fat, ugly, and has a BMW manual which is a negative on its own. What’s funny is that I wouldn’t choose an ITS over the previous M2 or the 1M. That’s how bad this new M2 is to me. Me choosing the Integra Type S over the M2 isn’t a testament to Acura, it’s a knock on BMW. And that brings me to my point, for $60,000 I’d just look for a 1M.
i'm not even kidding - your jokes and comedic timing has improved along with the grey - thanks for the vid!
I love my rear wheel drive, body on frame, sohc V8, non vvt Ford full size sedans. They just keep on running and they can be souped up into high performance cars with off the shelf parts from Ford SVT.
Yea, some of us are easily impressed, you love that 100 year old live axle with leaf springs too??
@@martindworaka car isn't a muscle car without a live rear axle....makes burnouts better/easier and that rear tail twist in launch is plain sexy
Jason, I appreciate your review. Because of your podcast primarily I bought a Type S.
Several things;
1) Rev hang for up shifting is eliminated when the rev-match feature is turned off, another discovery is when rev-match is on double clutching up shifts will cancel the rev hang.
2) I am disappointed with the rev match technology, it only matches the clutch speed and does not match the gear speed so it relies on the synchros to match the gear speed. To minimize wear to the synchros and the clutch double clutching is required.
Thanks for all your quality podcasts.
I have no doubt that the Type S is a great car, but I can't get passed the fact that it's over $50k! Event the Type R seems too expensive at $44k
Yeah the interior just isn't there
@@pieswimmer1 And it's on the Civic platform, which is supposed to be the budget friendly Honda
Hi, you confirm that this Integra Type S is a great car, your demonstration of the real torque at the wheels is very interesting, but for me Sarah's bean score is easier to understand and fun. I'm not comparing your 2 YT chains, that's complementary.
One is a subjective score based on taste.
The other is based on measured numbers.
I prefer to see metrics.
type S traps 104mph, its about fast as a DSG GTI.
DSG will always be quicker than manual; manual is about the experience!
@@EngineeringExplained💯
I know this will be lost in the comments, but I was looking up a video on carbs explained which was 11 years ago and watched that. Then I saw this now newest video, what a freaking change lol in a great way!
Dude, you need to eat!!
Love my A-Spec 6MT, possibly the best "fun but practical" car I've ever owned. Yeah mo powah would be nice and rev hang is lame, but it's torquey and feels much quicker than it is, sips gas, and has one of the best shifters ever.
my thoughts exactly haha, id also recommend the acuity shifter cable bushings
Overpriced Honda
Civic
have you watched the video?
Get a better job
Gee! Thanks a lot, Jason! It's not like we were having trouble getting the Acura for a decent price... thanks for making the case for it.
In all seriousness: very well made video and makes a very good argument
Slow and stupidly over priced. Sorry dude, I think your car would be a better deal if it were sub 40k and actually fast.
Were you listening haha? It's most definitely not slow. New car prices do be ridiculous though.
@@EngineeringExplained its very slow for the price you had to pay. Anything that costs $50k+ and barely runs a high 14 second 1/4 mile is painfully slow and over priced.
@nomenclature9607 I have 12k less in a car that would run rings around a new Acura. Fact. A '23 HPP/HP with an A10. On stock Corsa's I destroy Type R's on any track, for far less $ and look better doing it. Enjoy your lack of traction and bloated slow overpriced Japano ride dude, most of the world outside of your kind laughs at you and how slow you really are for the overprice you end up paying.
"Slow" Says the person who completely missed the calculation of second gear acceleration force, lol. Not that it's fast, but it's not that slow (no slower than the BMW M2 in second gear). The ol' "I only care about the spec sheet and 0-60 and 1/4 mile" folks with their real sophisticated analysis... Meanwhile "I bought the Mk7 Golf R, why does it not feel fast when it has a fast 0-60 mph?" -- gee that it only has 145W/kg compared to FK8 Civic Type R 165 W/kg, might have something to do with it (the FK8 was actually just as fast as the 600hp version of the Chevy SS, HSV GTS, from 80-120 km/hr)...
@@michaelfried3123 "high 14 second"? The quoted numbers were 13.7-13.8s, which is nearly as quick as the Mk3 Focus RS which is all wheel drive (low to mid 13s range). To be fair, the Focus RS is very heavy and not as fast as it should be for having 350hp. (Also the Focus doesn't actually produce the full 350hp until 3rd gear IIRC.)
The ITS suspension module (ADS unit) is plug-n-play in the CTR, which both use the same dampers. This $218 mod gives the CTR the ITS suspension damping, identical.
Thank to for this great review! Many of the Type S reviews focus just on doing 1:1 comparisons and thankfully you do the one I've been hoping for and comparing with the A Spec, since I'm trying to choose between the two. Your explanation of the torque and G force was really done.
My daily a 07 TL type s. Has Bolt ons. But what makes the difference Aluminum shifter box and replace all bushings with solid or bearings. Just a treat to row thru the gears.
Love your dry sense of humor! Yeah, I’m an engineer with an FK8!
I discovered the whole start-stop on MT cars thing when I got my F55 Mini Cooper, that said, I almost always turned it off, and in that car it would STAY OFF between power cycles.
Jason, what an amazing video! You have such a great way of explaining it. Informative, but so pleasant.
Thank you! 😎