TTA Podcast 125: You're Not Alone and You're Not Crazy

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  • Опубліковано 18 лис 2024

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  • @dfadden62
    @dfadden62 11 років тому +11

    "I woke up from the dream, and reality's so much better." YES!!!

  • @jatindersehgal1549
    @jatindersehgal1549 11 років тому +18

    I have gradually become an atheist. The problem is that my friends have not and in fact become even more mired in the old rituals. I cringe when I have to listen to the priests extolling their discredited dogmas. I think I will try to find new friends.

  • @ginagamba
    @ginagamba 4 роки тому +1

    You have no idea how comforting and reassuring that thumbnail is! Growing up, the expectation was to believe only in he teachings of the Catholic Church and anything outside of that was automatically bad or wrong. It didn't stop me exploring as I reached my teens, of course, just stopped me feeling like I could talk about what I thought or believed to suss things out for myself. It was actually a Catholic religious educator who encouraged me to explore and question. But it's been a long, hard life, still living in an area where it's just expected that one believes in, something; where belonging is dependent on believing or trying to fit myself into a tiny, confining box that I don't fit in. I still, at very nearly 40 (a week from the time I'm writing this), I'm just now relaxing into the idea that questioning is good and that it's okay to enjoy myth and fantasy for what they are without needing to believe they are real. I don't listen to your podcasts for great wisdom or specific knowledge. They are just so freaking REAL. I get comfort from your podcasts.

  • @jonathanmaxwell4558
    @jonathanmaxwell4558 11 років тому +6

    becoming an atheist is the most liberating feeling i have ever had. i am so much happier.

  • @XxBaconPandaxX
    @XxBaconPandaxX 11 років тому +4

    After listening to this PodCast for as long as I have and have heard countless calls in to Seth to tell their own story or their own experiences or to thank Seth for giving them courage or an outlet to identify openly with their true feelings... I think we can all agree that Seth has an important role in our lives in that his experience with the church and his family resonates with so many of us. He reminds us that no one deserves to be mistreated just because they don't believe in a god.

  • @FreshMelonWater
    @FreshMelonWater 11 років тому +3

    This /is/ my favorite atheist show because I feel like you /do/ try to be pleasant to everyone. The things you say don't just feel like attacks, and you aren't just yelling all the time. You seem like a very kind individual who shows respect to his callers, and I can really appreciate that.

  • @seethegalaxy
    @seethegalaxy 11 років тому +12

    Mr. Thinking Atheist: this is a darn fine job you're doing. Please keep up the good work.

  • @scootsmcgirk5975
    @scootsmcgirk5975 10 років тому +21

    I saw this shirt at a record store years ago, and I wish I 'd bought it: It was a picture of Jesus Christ with the caption, "Quit following me!"

    • @tracer740
      @tracer740 2 роки тому +1

      LOL!!! How very apropos, indeed!

  • @pontiuspilot9301
    @pontiuspilot9301 2 роки тому +2

    Had an old pastor in my early days that i referred to by his first name. I asked him one day, thinking I may be disrespecting him, and he said "When some one calls me Pastor, I know it's trouble!" Peace

  • @heidirh
    @heidirh 11 років тому +1

    Thank you -- your message is exactly what I needed to hear. Just got back from a visit to my biological family and was feeling hopeless and alone as the only atheist/agnostic among them for so many years. Lost/rejected my faith at age 17 and am now 34. It's sad to realize that I will never be truly close to any of them, will never be accepted as a human being with a worthwhile point of view and life experience...
    You've cut through the loneliness and helped me to find a shred of hope

  • @HuevoBendito
    @HuevoBendito 11 років тому +1

    Don't worry, I went through that. First it started off with me questioning, then it turned into me worshipping into something I accepted as evil, and then I rejected it all. Keep watching. People like Seth and Thunderf00t helped replace the "God-shaped" void in me with a mindset that doesn't take everything at face value and accepts our beautiful yet faulty as something we create for ourselves. Whatever you choose, choose not out fear but of knowing that you did it for yourself.

  • @jadekitten5425
    @jadekitten5425 11 років тому +2

    what i can say is that we've all been there, we're all here for you, and it WILL get easier with time

  • @Shangori
    @Shangori 11 років тому

    Simply said, Seth, you're a voice of conscience for the atheist community. That's at least how I see you. Not someone that tells his audience right from wrong, but someone that makes us aware of our human side, not letting things become purely black and white when it comes to our attitude towards the religious
    And I am incredibly grateful you being that voice, literally

  • @Blackspidy619
    @Blackspidy619 11 років тому

    it's words of comfort for those who feel isolated, alone, and have been constantly told that there MUST be something wrong with them if they dont believe in god.

  • @dfadden62
    @dfadden62 11 років тому +1

    Nice that someone understands. I love podcasts like this where you speak from the heart. Thanks!

  • @cesarmoran7433
    @cesarmoran7433 6 років тому +1

    Thank you!! All must think for themselves! Learning is universal!

  • @ccflash67
    @ccflash67 11 років тому +2

    Great Podcast this week Seth. Looking forward to seeing you next week-end in my home state of PA.

  • @cynt123able
    @cynt123able 11 років тому +4

    Just want to let you know Seth you remain one of my favorite youtubers. I look foreward to your podcast though I'm not able to listen to live podcast.

  • @wittenauers
    @wittenauers 4 місяці тому

    This topic needs revisited, updated and redone for 2024. Internet access has vastly spread in rural areas in the decade since this episode was done.
    Some of us didn't realize how NOT alone we were - for far too long.

  • @moknbyrd
    @moknbyrd 2 роки тому +1

    Thank you, too, Seth.

  • @PurifierUnit
    @PurifierUnit 11 років тому +1

    Studies have shown that less competent individuals actually think rather highly of themselves and are generally unaware of their own incompetence. They also tend to dislike those who outperform them and rationalize their own failures away whenever possible. More competent individuals, conversely, are intensely aware of their own failings and seek to remedy them.
    Psychology plays Contrary Mary with us on a daily basis.

  • @samsonanthony
    @samsonanthony 11 років тому +1

    Thank you.
    From a very grateful English Atheist.

  • @MrEek11
    @MrEek11 11 років тому +1

    I love Seth's approach. There are too many a-holes in the atheist/agnostic movement that only really represent the minority of us. Yes, we need the Hitch's and Silvermans, but we need more of Seth's calm strength and willingness to engage folks with respect.

  • @PiraticalFox
    @PiraticalFox 11 років тому +1

    Great job as always, Seth. Some powerful messages and some great words of wisdom. Keep up the good fight.

  • @DonWilsondigginTimeUSA
    @DonWilsondigginTimeUSA 11 років тому +2

    Should be more people like you!...Well said, have a great day!

  • @VvDOPAMEANvV
    @VvDOPAMEANvV 11 років тому

    Andy (Thompson) said the same thing to me in Houston (TFC 2011). He came to Knoxville, TN in 2012 to our local meetup.
    He's a great guy.

  • @MenwithHill
    @MenwithHill 11 років тому +5

    Question everything ! Open your eyes ! It is quite alright to be an atheist.

  • @delusionnnnn
    @delusionnnnn 11 років тому +2

    The caller from Israel reminded me of my favourite Thomas Paine quote: “The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a lunatic asylum.”

  • @laniscott2133
    @laniscott2133 5 років тому +1

    I just adore you!!!! Thanks Seth you made my day!!!

  • @gilbrave9916
    @gilbrave9916 11 років тому +2

    Wow the title today really discribes how I feel, I was a crhistian for 28 years and let me tell you I feel alone and crazy some times, like you Seth, My mom is a born againg christian and my brother is a pastor and only you can imagine how everything is when I visit them.
    one Q, how can I call to the post cats from skype? when is the show produced?
    thank you very muchfor the info and Seth: Thank you brother for wake me up from this nightmare they call christianity.

  • @whoopiman
    @whoopiman 11 років тому +1

    Thank you Seth.

  • @JosephNordenbrockartistraction
    @JosephNordenbrockartistraction 11 років тому +1

    It's really nice to get a reply that isn't attacking me. Thanks. George Carlin was crude on purpose mainly to get people talking and more importantly thinking for themselves. I like Daniel Dennett, and the late Christopher Hitchens for how they respect woman and assume the audience has some intelligence. Both of them very nice and funny. Sam Harris is also very good but he seems to come across as bitter. Of course I don't know him personally.

  • @Marxvnn
    @Marxvnn 11 років тому +1

    One word, inspirational.

  • @JosephNordenbrockartistraction
    @JosephNordenbrockartistraction 11 років тому +1

    A quick clever one-liner joke in public mocking religion goes a long way. The mislead faithful can't just stop listening to forget what you said and a long fruitless conversation need not waste your time. The seed of REAL truth has been planted. It's rare that anyone changes in one day and a clever remark depends on your target audience and what their mood is. Have fun as a non-theist and dare to dent people's misplaced faith. Promoting peace though laughter should be the goal.

  • @RinLockhart
    @RinLockhart 9 років тому +13

    I love this channel.

  • @DonWilsondigginTimeUSA
    @DonWilsondigginTimeUSA 11 років тому +1

    Well said Derek!

  • @nancymc
    @nancymc 6 років тому +1

    Love you Seth.

  • @FreethinkingSecularist
    @FreethinkingSecularist 11 років тому +1

    That is a great book! I wish my copy was autographed. :( All his books are entertaining, if you try and read his language books they have many neat word tricks and interpretation effects that the brain misses with the speed of coupled words and other things. Just great reads!

  • @Prelude610
    @Prelude610 11 років тому +1

    "The Internet. Where religions go to die." - Thunderf00t
    For decades I've though that the general decline of religion was driven first by the ability to travel, to get away from your people and to meet others, to hear different ideas. Then radio and TV came along and did more, although programming that challenged traditions were few. And finally, the Internet, where we get to share our ideas and beliefs with everyone, and be challenged to think, by everyone.

  • @sovietbot6708
    @sovietbot6708 3 роки тому +2

    Who's watching old podcasts?

  • @robertfox977
    @robertfox977 5 років тому

    The hardest thing I've done was coming out to my kids. They were raised Christian and are great kids. They said we still love you Dad. My ex-wife of 23years who is a Christian. Not so much.

  • @markday5797
    @markday5797 2 роки тому

    Yes Seth we are winning.

  • @MarkLucasProductions
    @MarkLucasProductions 11 років тому +1

    Good job Seth.

  • @AtheistComet80
    @AtheistComet80 11 років тому

    That Ingersoll quote is beautiful!

  • @Chamelionroses
    @Chamelionroses 11 років тому +1

    From all social networks including G+ and Facebook it seems many love to play out superiority complexes with bullying likeness instead of humanistic reasoning. People use things as politics and religion often rudely in selfish ways but I feel all I can do is say truth even if it changes nothing.

  • @vanguardindigo3419
    @vanguardindigo3419 11 років тому

    @Ken_Frazer yes it can seem the same to me as well. The question is, have you done everything you can to make the work a better place? If not, there is hope. You are not alone and if you feel that you can make even the slightest positive impact, chances are you will and so will others.

  • @kendrixhavlik3051
    @kendrixhavlik3051 10 років тому +3

    I think many of these ppl would've had doubts anyway, but no way to come up with an alternate coherent woldview.

  • @KenFrazer_IPS
    @KenFrazer_IPS 11 років тому

    6:20 I feel like that is my life. I used to be so optimistic, then I started watching the news alot, now I feel like the world is not going to end but it should. People are crazy, rude, racist, bigoted, and proud of it. I almost with I only heard of TX and states like it from geology class and not know how people actually are from there. I think I understand why people ignore the world and become sheeple. I kinda wish I could go back, but my eyes are open now.

  • @Tasarran
    @Tasarran 11 років тому

    Texas has similar language to Maryland:
    "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."
    I love how this one basically says "No religious discrimination is acceptable, unless the discriminated party is an atheist"

  • @ratholin
    @ratholin 11 років тому +1

    what a nice show. I'm so tired of the youtube atheist community devolving into petty name calling. It's good to hear something positive coming out. Did everyone catch aronra's science vs makebelieve lecture? That was pretty good too. :D

  • @Osakadows
    @Osakadows 11 років тому

    They are amazing people, but we all have that potential if we dedicate our self to learning more about the world and investigating the most likely truth of a subject we happen to be good at.
    We have a long way to go, but I believe we both realise the goal is worth it. :)

  • @Lewa500
    @Lewa500 11 років тому

    I think I've seen said article of the mentioned magazine; if not, a similar one. I'm looking forward to our technological advancements, too, but I'm not delusional as to how realistic some prospects could be in my lifetime.

  • @vladtepes9614
    @vladtepes9614 11 років тому

    I've definitely felt this way before. Despite knowing that there are a million problems with the Bible, I still feel like "the crazy one" for NOT believing it at times. This isn't a problem online, I'm talking about everyday life. 99% of the people I know believe in god, and 95% of those are Christian. It makes me feel like the odd man out. I sometimes think "Is it me? Is there something wrong with me?", even though rationally I see all the problems with religion and scriptures.

  • @Lewa500
    @Lewa500 11 років тому

    This is normal, I've been there myself. The best advice I can give you is to keep living your normal life and bear with it. In time, your fear should subside and you should become more confident against superstition. It all depends on how confident you are to face your fears. One thing's for sure, it won't happen overnight and your fear won't disappear completely.
    Don't let it control your life, though. Be rational and don't let this indoctrination ruin your experience of life.

  • @cynt123able
    @cynt123able 11 років тому +2

    The thought that I must creat in my mind a perfect being to counter my own imperfections is no longer a selling point for me. I have to take ownership of my own character and stop cluttering my brain with an imaginary perfect being that's upset with me for not being a perfect being.

  • @Prelude610
    @Prelude610 11 років тому +1

    Which reminds me, I should have mentioned education as a factor, and per what you say, noted how North Carolina is gutting education. Produces a much more malleable populace, easier to motivate with fear and emotion, not as much chance they will think things through.

  • @StuffIHaveSeen
    @StuffIHaveSeen 11 років тому

    I am always sad when the show ends :(

  • @DeadFleshPariah
    @DeadFleshPariah 11 років тому +2

    42:00 oh FUCKING SNAP! Lol Answers in Genesis got fucking slammed and Seth just doesn't stop. I love it

  • @Pastulio1215
    @Pastulio1215 11 років тому

    Seth, if you're looking for a great documentary about child molestation within the Catholic church, you should watch "Mea Maximal Culpa". That is one power piece of filmmaking.

  • @MJLM2312
    @MJLM2312 11 років тому +1

    When my belief in god dropped, I began questioning everything, if they fooled me about what I considered the most sacred in my life, in what else had I been fooled?? Religion isn't the only dogma around, there are tons of beliefs out there that people don't question: politics, the monetary system, nationalism, just to name a few. Convictions passed through tradition, with no evidence to back them up other than the inertia with which we carry them on,and against evidence on how obsolete they are.

  • @mikeyvester
    @mikeyvester 11 років тому

    Seth, I have seen Christian ads on your videos. I have always been an atheist and I thought everyone else was crazy except me, some friends and family members.

  • @kendrixhavlik3051
    @kendrixhavlik3051 10 років тому +3

    I don' think the religious pople should "blame" the internet - all it does is connect people and create a place where they can speak without being afraid.
    If people leave your organization imply from heaing other viewpoints exist, it's your group that has a problem, and it insn't the fact that other ideas exist

  • @AnFonE
    @AnFonE 11 років тому +1

    1:04:17 - I like how the last words of the Captions are "Dog Collar" LOL

  • @stephaniecuellar3192
    @stephaniecuellar3192 7 років тому +4

    I keep this episode on my view latter list just to remind myself if it's message, even if l don't view it. Thanks Seth, you devil you!

  • @richwfd2002
    @richwfd2002 11 років тому +1

    That's the hook, whether many christians are conscious of it or not, FEAR. The emotional blackmail inherent in christianity is very immoral and destructive, but it will get easier. Just keep talking about it and the fear will slowly fade.

  • @mr.meeseeks8567
    @mr.meeseeks8567 11 років тому +1

    It will my friend. It only a matter of time.....

  • @musefreak2010
    @musefreak2010 11 років тому

    Lol the ad on the video was for a show called preachers of LA

  • @PiraticalFox
    @PiraticalFox 11 років тому

    lol! 54:06. When Seth was talking about watching TV on Sunday, the first time I listened I heard "Bigfoot ball games", not "big football games". I immediately did a double-take and had to go back. Given the state of so-called 'investigative' TV programs on a lot of American networks, I guess my brain went the paranormal-crap route since I'm not a sports fan. It probably says a lot about my disgust for some (i.e., most) US networks (History, TLC, Discovery, etc.). :)

  • @seath_the_stanless
    @seath_the_stanless 11 років тому +1

    Oh thank God I found this, if you'll pardon the expression :P I live in a small community where being anything other than a white, christian male over thirty is highly frowned upon, or so it would seem. I'm constantly rejected and misunderstood. People dismiss me, and don't take me seriously. It's so infuriating. It's so good to know that there are others out there like me.

  • @Highcaloriegrappling
    @Highcaloriegrappling 11 років тому +1

    Seth when you mention videos, documentaries, websites, etc. in your show, would it be possible to put those in the description?

  • @TonyTsaousis
    @TonyTsaousis 11 років тому +1

    Parapon3a
    I realised 30 yrs ago that nature was advanced to the point where we no longer needed a God. Anyone who is educated and understands science cannot possibly believe in God. I had the priest who married my parents and baptise me ask me when I was 20 if I believed in God. I said no and he said "good there's no such thing, stick to your maths and science". Priests know just like we- look at mother Teresa BUT try and understand and NOT assume others should know 2, how can they? Its up to us

  • @MrNadseven
    @MrNadseven 11 років тому +1

    My parents are from Sao Paulo, but I was born in the US.

  • @ImTabe
    @ImTabe 11 років тому

    You should seriously have a show with like Penn & Teller and Neil DeGrasse would be awesome!

  • @kenonerboy
    @kenonerboy 11 років тому +1

    wow you have had a completly diffrent experience than me

  • @Xaio30
    @Xaio30 11 років тому

    The day will come where a man or woman discovers a sliver of doubt in their heart. They will fear that sliver and try to suppress it, but Seth Andrews will stand with them on the crossroads of religious delusion and clear reason and he will convince them: "You're not alone and you're not crazy."

  • @EatHoneyBeeHappy
    @EatHoneyBeeHappy 7 років тому +2

    It's true, every time Ken Ham opens his mouth another believer loses faith. I wasn't a creationist but listening to him try and defend Christianity made me feel so stupid to belong to the same religion as him.

  • @mull529
    @mull529 11 років тому

    I am so surprised to hear people talking about coming out as atheists. I have mostly been skeptical about religion since childhood. I suppose the reason was I read too much. I tend to just ignore people who come at me with religion. I had no idea that people are experiencing things like this. Well, my best hope for those people. The world is a beautiful thing when one experiences it knowing we are here by chance and we are a rare event in the universe.

  • @Chamelionroses
    @Chamelionroses 11 років тому +1

    My family already alienated me from my mother never being married and financial status so I only feel a little sad they choose to ostracize me generally.

  • @richwfd2002
    @richwfd2002 11 років тому +1

    Yep. It's amazing to me that so many "grown ups" in this country think that just because they think something that it must be true. It saddens me actually. And good call on the gay thing. My partner and I have been together for almost 14 years ;-)

  • @richwfd2002
    @richwfd2002 11 років тому +1

    We just gotta keep calling out the bullshit when we see it. Thankfully, more people like us are doing it!!

  • @DustinBaucom1
    @DustinBaucom1 10 років тому +2

    The time you said "my atheist friend" thats how my friends descried me. I fell like it does not fit cause it implies that I'm the one that need to be fixed.

    • @DustinBaucom1
      @DustinBaucom1 8 років тому +1

      Yeah I would guess that one way to put it.

    • @The_Other_Ghost
      @The_Other_Ghost 6 років тому

      @@DustinBaucom1 If anything it's a way to show acceptance with the token person. With a gay bff it's because you have a bad ass bff.

  • @Lewa500
    @Lewa500 11 років тому

    Sadly, you will most likely not live to see this level of progress achieved. Your offspring are your best bet at living forever.

  • @Lewa500
    @Lewa500 11 років тому

    I think most of us go through the same phases, at least I hope that's the case.

  • @Prelude610
    @Prelude610 11 років тому +1

    Seth, please try to get Prophet Bobbie Henderson on the show. Pretty please.

  • @shawnbrock9667
    @shawnbrock9667 8 років тому +5

    Almost every time that you go to an atheist video you get a religious movie ad. Just sayin'.

    • @aicram62
      @aicram62 2 роки тому

      I wonder whether we could protest that they advertise our atheist shows on Christian channels.

  • @TheRealFlenuan
    @TheRealFlenuan 11 років тому +1

    Oh, yes. Humanity will reach a great new era upon that day.
    * dramatic music plays in the background *

  • @Ounouh
    @Ounouh 11 років тому

    Alright. Thanks for clarification. Haven't heard that term before and I was wondering what it meant. Isn't the "militant" part a bit misleading or does it refer their goal to wage war?

  • @richwfd2002
    @richwfd2002 11 років тому +1

    Hell, yeah!!! ;-) Their double standard is sooooo glaring. They can run around threatening people and using emotional blackmail, but we're not supposed to criticize their fairytale beliefs. Gag!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @mx62455
    @mx62455 10 років тому +2

    Dude u can do a great Q impression!

  • @Deinonuchus
    @Deinonuchus 11 років тому

    Speaking of The Purpose Driven Life, have you watched Steve Shives series on the book?

  • @Lewa500
    @Lewa500 11 років тому

    Your fantastical expectations of the near future are admirable, but you should also be prepared for the scenario that you won't be able to extend your natural life expectancy.
    On children, I see your opinion of their role in life is quite unique, but they are far more than just that. They're not only a way to symbolically live forever, but they also represent the best of nature: Beauty, innocence, purity, youth, liveliness, aspiration and everything that is worthwhile in humanity.

  • @zencat999
    @zencat999 11 років тому

    a thought..have we turned a corner in what is "family"? its not so much about "blood relation" and has evolved into commitment to get along with someone else because of common interest and an agreement to get along no matter what.
    any thoughts?

  • @johnwassing7733
    @johnwassing7733 6 років тому +1

    I have a message for young kids on the net. Be brave. Fight your parents with simple logic. Question everything religious.

  • @Parapon3ra
    @Parapon3ra 11 років тому +3

    I'm childfree and intend to keep it that way (I really don't understand breeders tbh, just like I don't understand theists and deathists. Why burden yourself with kids and extend the pointless cycle of suffering & death?). This kind of 'immortality' is purely symbolical and lacks practical value, except as a crude mental pacifier. No, I expect to live long enough to see key breakthroughs in genetics, robotics, AI, nanotech etc., and if not then there's always plan B: cryonics.

  • @PurifierUnit
    @PurifierUnit 11 років тому

    Character limit prevented me from elaborating further on transhumanist principles. Suffice it to say that I've long been a proponent of human-directed evolution, and science is already cracking the problem of aging. I have hope that I'll exist forever, at least as a digitized consciousness if not as a physical being -- such a dream is actually within our reach. However, do realize that one can be excited about progress without turning it into principle.

  • @MJLM2312
    @MJLM2312 11 років тому +1

    Cool idea "oh your god...", might try it sometime :) But about that other line "what country we live in and what freedom really is", don't know if you wrote it because I mentioned nationalism, I don't live in the U.S. btw, but search these videos of George Carlin on youtube: "George Carlin - pride", "George Carlin: The Illusion Of Freedom & Choice!" that guy was really funny, straightforward and critical (he was an atheist too, in case u want to check out his videos on religion)

  • @DoggoWillink
    @DoggoWillink 11 років тому

    @ee k Yeah, we need all of them.

  • @DonWilsondigginTimeUSA
    @DonWilsondigginTimeUSA 11 років тому +1

    No disrespect intended, but what kind of marriage are you referring to? A legal binding contract? Or are you referring to a vow without any control at all? just curious, because I find that most marriages fail at some point...(not all) and then the Gov. steps in to dictate how it will be settled.

  • @JosephNordenbrockartistraction
    @JosephNordenbrockartistraction 11 років тому +1

    I think an occasional outburst in public with a comical undertone that knocks the faithful off their pedestal for a second is much needed to turn the tide of irrational thinking that runs so deep in this so called modern culture. For instance; While at a zoo (with a security presence), point at some cool animal and say "Oh your god look at that !! That's so cool ! (as if you said nothing wrong). You may get dirty looks, but you'll remind them what country we live in and what freedom really means

  • @TurboDally
    @TurboDally 11 років тому

    "Mars Effect"
    Unconvincing. Even if a case could be made, you still need to determine causation: is it because of bias, is it coincidence, what are the mechanisms behind it, could another event be responsible that merely coincides.