SSJ3 Goku Vs Ultimate Gohan: The Honest Truth
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- "Hang In There Kakarot You Are Number One"
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• Dragon Ball Z - Ultima...
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Goku was shocked to feel Gohans unlocked
power. Thats gota be worth something.
Gohan was shocked with ssj3
@@supesisfodder7427 after Gohan went ultimate/mystic?
Yeah he was amazed
@@supesisfodder7427 what episode? Number or general scene description.
While training with kais and whole goku fighting kid buu
Amazing that after all these decades, people still think that Kid Buu, the result of Super Buu losing his power, is stronger than Super Buu himself . . . DBZ english fans are something else
Buddy I hope you realize super buu reverting back and getting stronger is liter supported by how ki works as one of its components is called shoki which means true character meaning kid buu would regain all of his shoki in addition to several sources and prices of evidence suggesting that kid buu is infact stronger
@@mrperfectcell5079 No its just not.. There is no Real statement that kid buu is stronger. Kid buu ist more Dangerous. Unpredictable. Roughless. Not Stronger.
Kid Buu has no Real Mind.. .
Super Buu ist a Stronger Fighter. More Calm. Smarter. More Controlled.
Fat Buu is weaker than Kid Buu because of his Shape and his more Childisch behavoir. Buffed buu is Kid Buu+1 Kai.
In your Theorie .. Super Buu must be stronger than Buutenks.. and Buuhan must be weaker than Super Buu. ..
Gogeta would be weaker than Vegeta and Goku alone..
"In this scene, the Shunkanido technique [instant transmission] fails to save Gohan, Goten and Trunks, which was a blow. Thinking about the situation, in which Buu had returned to his most violent but not so strong form, with Gotenks and Gohan it would have been enough to defeat him.”"
The Kaioshin being inside Buu makes him weaker.
@@rakkieh404 Buu is weaker with Fat Buu inside(because of the Kaioshin making him weaker), it's literally stated.
Bingo @@thegodofsaiyans535
Well goku pretty much admits that he couldn’t beat super buu no matter what,then ssj3 gotenks comes to fight buu and looks relative,until we find out he’s been stalling because he senses a warrior who’s beyond any of them,which was gohan.and before the kid buu fight,he saying bringing gohan to the fight would make it be EASY
And gohan was just BULLYING buu,on some gohan vs cell energy
Crazy how i literally covered this in the video
And said why that doesn’t matter and is a bad argument
No Goku never admitted to that. Also Kid buu is stronger then Super buu.
He only said he couldn’t beat Super Buu while weakened lmao. And no, Goku nor Vegeta ever stated Gohan would have beaten Kid Buu, you made that up.
Great analysis brother
The evidence that Goku is stronger in the video is faulty. First of all the statements that Goku is the strongest are easily discredited by the fact that earlier it was stated Gohan was the strongest, indicating that in both scenarios they are simply the strongest (alive) as otherwise it’d create a paradox. Goku also was so scared of fighting Buuhan that he felt that him and Vegeta combined couldn’t take him, so much so that he had to fuse, wheras with Kid Buu he was pretty much confident just him by himself (without Vegeta) could take him, showing evidence that Buuhan>Kid Buu (implying that as Buu gains forms he gets stronger). There’s also evidence of Fat Buu being relative to Kid Buu and Ssj3 Goku. The way Goku judged Kid Buu’s strength at first was by comparing Kid Buu’s to fat Buu’s (which he saw almost none of he just jumped him and left). As the fight went on and he ran out of energy, he didnt say he underestimated Kid Buu’s strength, rather he underestimated Ssj3’s time (Therfor Goku would have lost to fat Buu the same way). It goes without saying that Fat Buu
Beautfilly put words.
Yep
It’s not faulty. Yes Gohan could have surpassed Goku at first but when Goku comes back to life he becomes stronger again. Not every absorption makes Buu stronger, we see when Buff Buu absorbs Grand Kai and becomes weaker. Goku was blatantly dominating Fat Buu while holding back and Kid Buu was toying with anenraged Fat Buu, Goku also could have killed Fat Buu while the same cannot be said about Kid Buu. Yes, Goku and Vegeta were confident about taking on Kid Buu alone despite Old Kai and Surprme Kai insisting Goku and Vegeta fuse to fight Kid Buu. And you are blatantly wrong about this part, Vegeta explicitly states that they were WRONG about Kid Buus power level, and putting all of this on top of the fact that Vegeta states Goku is the ONLY one who can fight Kid Buu, and Goku also states Kid Buu would have killed EVERYONE while Gohan is alive, and the multiple confirmations that Kid Buu would have destroyed the universe. This is ALL within the manga. And there’s nothing wrong with using guides like Daizenshuu which states Kid Buu is the strongest in the universe while Gohan is alive. Toriyama explicitly stated the Daizenshuu staff is more knowledgeable than he is on the franchise.
@Jarrett Brewer na kid buu is the most dangerous, not the strongest buu.
@@jarrettbrewer2892 First of all you can’t just assume Goku got stronger based on no information, especially when no such thing was seen in the past. Secondly, reread the fight of Goku vs Fat Buu, Goku jumped him (as fat buu clearly underestimated him) and then it becomes a back and forth where Goku is sweating and Fat Buu is smiling (prime evidence to prove my point is Majin Vegeta vs Fat Buu, Majin Vegeta is way weaker, yet he jumped Buu, and caught him off guard, then he beat him up similar to how Goku did, Majin Vegeta’s not stronger than Fat Buu now is he?). And there’s no evidence Buu god weaker after absorbing Grand Kai, Majin Buu morose than any other Buu held his power back, and played with his food; this makes him less of a threat in the sense that Fat Buu isnt just going to randomly blow everything up, so they have a chance. Kid Buu also beating up a severely weakened Fat Buu doesn’t mean much. The fat buu he fought lacked his evil counterpart (who was said to harbor the majority of the power of the combined Majin Fat Buu). This is not even close to proving Kid Buu over fat buu, while I believe Fat Buu is probably stronger, it doesnt even matter because at the very least they’re clearly relative, wheras Fat Buu is much weaker than Super Buu, where once again Gohan beat up super Buu, and Goku (who has no proof of a power up, and changing the plot to favor this theory is disingenuous), was relative to both Kid Buu and Fat Buu, so Gohan is just stronger than Goku. Also the Daizenshuu also states that Ultimate “Gohan is the strongest warrior”, and with no evidence that Goku miraculously got stronger randomly, it shows the Daizenshuu’s paradoxical nature, and how they likely speak in the moment (who’s on screen/relevant) rather than encompassing everyone, meaning that there is no proof of Goku being stronger unless you assume he randomly got stronger which doesnt even make sense plot wise, meanwhile there is a lot of evidence that supports Gohan that doesnt involve guesswork, and is based in what is actually written in the manga. Gohan>Goku in dbz.
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with the idea that Goku got stronger simply by being brought back to life, as even by that flawed logic which has not been proven in the context of the series, Goku still thought that he needed fusion to defeat Buutenks, who was proven to be stronger than Ultimate Gohan. Plus, the statement of Goku being the strongest at the end of the fight with Buu can be up to interpretation since Goku didn't actually defeat Buu on his own in the end, but it was Goku and his spirit bomb attack that dealt the final blow against Buu. Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks was shown to be equal to or possibly greater than Super Buu, and Ultimate Gohan was stronger than Super Buu. I do think that Goku did eventually surpass Gohan (dragonball super and GT not withstanding), but during the fight with Buu, Ultimate Gohan was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku.
Buu with Gotenks and Picollo absorbed was a thin hair stronger than Gohan, but not stronger than Gohan to say it definitively like say, Trunks and Goten, if he was, he would have been willing to initiate any of the times he got the one up on Gohan instead of just waiting for Gohan to attack then attacking or ranged energy blast attacks.
Thats just ur false interpertation
It's all for the plot.
@@srnova9486it isn't a false interpretation. I am stating the facts.
@@gangstagummybear3432actually, super Buu after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo was significantly stronger than Ultimate Gohan, as we clearly see Buu overpower Gohan in a one-sided fight almost a full reversal of when Gohan had the advantage over super Buu.
_Everything made sense till __4:00__ 😂_
Now I Wait For The Inevitable Flame War In My Comments Section 😀
HAWKEYE NEGS DBZ VERSE
One thing that makes me sad its the fact that no one in the comment section crearly watched the video, its literraly impossible to count how many people in comment section is saying shit that was been debunked in the video like "goku was afraid of super buu"
Bro is spitting
nothing was debunked
Mister Perfect Cell, SSJ3 Son Goku is slightly stronger than Kid Buu, but weaker than Hidden Potential Unleashed Son Gohan, SSJ3 Gotenks, and Super Buu.
No he isn’t he’s stronger than all of them. Absolutely nothing suggests the people you named are stronger than Goku.
@@jarrettbrewer2892 its been said forever that gohan was the strongest unfused character in the buu arc
@@brysonstith4926 it was never said anywhere. Fandom literally made that shit up.
@@jarrettbrewer2892 incorrect. It's from a Toriyama interview.
Ultimate Gohan is explicitly the strongest unfused character in Toriyama's original manga.
By a far larger margin than Goku fanatics dare to imagine.
@@priestesslucy3299 can you attach the interview please? Everytime I ask for it no one can ever seem to deliver it.
I just watched your video and I'm pretty disappointed in how you got it all wrong, I will refute every argument you cited to prove that Goku is stronger than Gohan:
1-"Goku got stronger after coming back to life"
First of all, where did you get this idea? At no point in the franchise did this happen, saying that is the same as saying that any Z warrior who died in the work was left because yes, it's wrong.
2-"But V-Jump said that Buuhan's power was the same level as Goku"
V-Jump has already described multiple errors in his arguments and frankly, let's see what the work demonstrated? Elder Kai mentioned that the only way to defeat Buutenks was through fusion, Buutenks absorbed Gohan and became more powerful, and what happened next? Goku and Buuhan fought on an equal footing the way V-Jump "interpreted" it? No, Goku desperately tells Vegeta that the only way to defeat Buuhan is through fusion, so his argument is illogical.
3- "All guides prove that Goku is stronger"
Daizenshuu 2 never mentioned that Goku is the strongest, he just mentioned that Goku's feelings can only be understood by his opponent.
Daizenshuu 7 does not explicitly say this, in this guide it is said that Goku, Gohan and Vegeta are the strongest in the Universe, Vegeta who was not even an opponent for Fat Buu is stronger than Ultimate Gohan? Lol, this argument has no connection.
Vegeta's entire statement is between him and Goku, Vegeta didn't mention any warriors other than him and Goku, so you took Vegeta's statement/redemption out of context.
Akira's speech is a compliment to the character, because if it depends on its context, in all sagas, regardless of who gained power or not, Goku is stronger.
Genkidama's concept is to take a piece of energy from each being and turn it into a massive sphere, it doesn't make any sense for Goku to do Genkidama just to take Gohan's energy, it doesn't make sense.
This argument of the powers of both within Buu still proves nothing, since in addition to trying to prove the case in the anime filler, Goku still "threatened" Super Buu.
Friend, you are simply creating assumptions where there is none, saying that they get stronger while fighting is the same as saying that Goku in the battle with Kid Buu is stronger than Super Vegito, which doesn't even make any sense, if that were the case then Goku could have beaten Buutenks and Buuhan without fusion because you're giving a raise for no reason to defend your argument.
El Manga Legendario mentions twice that Kid Buu is not the most powerful, everything you said is to benefit your point of view and it's ok if you make a video proving that Kid Buu is the strongest because his arguments are self-contradictory, Daizenshuu and Manga Legendario never put him as the strongest, and to make matters worse, DB Online with Koyama, one of the scriptwriters of DBZ confirm that Buuhan is the most powerful, you also forgot to mention that Super Buu has all the memories of the previous Buus and yet he declared himself the most powerful Buu and declared that Gohan is the most powerful and he was aware of the powers of Goku and Vegeta, even in the Daizenshuu, Akira says indifferently that Vegito is based < Buuhan.
I have many other arguments but I think that I've already said too much, so I ask you to reread the manga carefully and then review each guide, most guides are only interpreted for the anime, that's it
1. I explained in the video on why i think goku got stronger that being that he has better feats/statements later on in the series
2. I interpret the v jump scan as saying goku is on par with GOHAN not BUUHAN so that entire paragraph was wasted cus you blatantly did not understand what i said
3. It said "Goku's feelings are only understood by his fellow strongest" which basically means that goku and whoever understands his feelings are the strongest and in this case i think the "fellow strongest" in question is kid buu since the scene daizenshuu references is one centered around those two characters
Daizenshuu 7 straight up said goku and vegeta was the strongest in the universe idk what to tell ya the scan is right there also i would just say vegeta also got stronger based off this statement (also daizenshuu 7 never said gohan was the strongest you are thinking of daizenshuu 2 which even then it is referencing at that time or else gohan would be stronger than buutenks)
4. Yeah its complimenting the character akira is complimenting that goku is the strongest and even implies that is what vegeta meant when he said "you are number one" as he seems to correlate the two
5.i do not care if you don't think it makes sense for goku to take gohans energy because it is LITERALLY what happens THERE IS LITERALLY A PANEL OF GOHAN GIVING HIS ENERGY AND GOKU COMMENTING ON HOW GOHAN JUST GAVE HIS ENERGY read the manga for once
6.I never ever said kid buu was stronger than super vegito, buuhan, or buutenks stop acting like i did
7. El manga legendario says kid buu isn't the strongest form of buu which itself has some alternate interpretations, but i dont even have to bring those up because again im not saying he is stronger than buuhan im only saying hes above BASE SUPER BUU got that BASE SUPER BUUUUUU
8."This argument of the powers of both within Buu still proves nothing, since in addition to trying to prove the case in the anime filler, Goku still "threatened" Super Buu." not sure what this means so im not gonna respond to it
@@mrperfectcell5079 1- Yes, I noticed, but there are no bases that agree that Goku got stronger during the saga and having better feats doesn't put him beyond, I'll explain later
2- I reviewed the video and looked for guides where I'll talk about it later, V-Jump has no concrete basis since it already as I said before, it already made mistakes about powers, and yes, we can agree that the difference between Ultimate Gohan and Goku ssj3 is not an abyss, but it has certain differences.
3-That you are right, but remember, this part of the guide does not mention Goku as stronger
4- Exactly, this is just a compliment from Akira and Vegeta about Goku and therefore, it does not influence, much less prove anything about Goku's power.
5- About this part, I searched a lot about Daizenshuu 7 and I managed to see the guide and I looked very carefully about this scene and I could not find it, about this speech there can be two explanations, the The reason for the context of this speech to have been cut has mysterious reasons or this scene refers to when Elder Kai tells Kibitoshin that Goku and Vegeta were the most powerful in the world of the living and the dead dead (this line is in the scene of Vegito vs Buuhan), and besides there is a confirmation from Daizenshuu saying that Goku, Vegeta and Gohan are the three most powerful in the Universe
6-About that part, you're totally entitled to play the Genkidama however you want, but if you ignore the Genkidama concept you'll basically play the wrong scene too, if Genkidama were just for a varied group then there would be no reason for all Genkidama to have to absorb everything, including Vegeta himself said that Earth would kill Buu and didn't want to involve Gohan and Gotenks in battle, I've read the manga and this is one of the most used arguments from Kid Buu fanboys (I'm not calling you a fanboy or anything like that), and also Genkidama was getting some energy from each being alive and not taking ALL ENERGY that many interpret
7-Just the fact that El Mangá Legendário says that Kid Buu is not strong and that Gohan and Gotenks could defeat him already concluded the debate, the guide mentioned twice that Kid Buu is not strong and in the manga it is mentioned more than once Goku ssj3 can beat Kid Buu if he charged his energy for a minute he could obliterate Kid Buu at once, and remembering, Goku suffered too much when facing Kid Buu from the insane waste of energy.
8-Finally, I just mentioned that even Goku and Vegeta were in that situation in a smaller size, they were still trying to maintain a stronger posture inside Buu's body, but just analyze what I mentioned previously, Super Buu has memories of Kid Buu and Fat Buu and even so he declared Gohan as more powerful (he said at the moment he turned into Buutenks), now in a fight between Goku Ssj3 and Ultimate Gohan, the advantages of more power, potential and stamina, Gohan would win, Goku has much more experience and would give a match, but in the context of the whole manga, Gohan is the unfused strongest character in Z, I apologize for putting Kid Buu and Buuhan in the debate
@@gogettoblue5357
1. v jump is an official source idc if you think it has no basis it would be dishonest to just refuse to accept evidence from an official source who actually have ties to the company who make dragon ball
2. uh yes it does if its saying goku and kid buu are the strongest then that means they are stronger than everyone else which would include gohan lol
3.why does it being a compliment debunk the feat wtf? are you saying you cant compliment a fact??????
4. idk what to tell you man i have the raw for the daizenshuu and its there. And no its not referencing elder kais statement cus he doesn't even call them the strongest and again IT DOES NOT SAY GOKU, VEGETA, AND GOHAN ARE THE STRONGEST IT NEVER EVER SAYS GOHAN
5.vegeta may not have wanted them to be in the battle (which could be because he thought they would die) but that still doesn't change that ITS LITERALLY SHOWN THAT THEY GAVE ENERGY STOP BEING DISHONEST and also Gohan would have no reason to not give all his energy unless he wants goku to die
6. the eml statement is super vague as I pointed out in the video and can just be interpreted as gohan, gotenks, and goku jumping kid buu and thats how they would win and i explained all this in the video which im starting to doubt you watched
7.wtf does maitning a stronger posture mean???? if you are tryna say it means they are exactly as strong as their normal selves then you are wrong cus its literally implied they are far weaker than normal due to how small they are. also super buu never imples gohan is stronger you made that up
8.FYI idc if goku can kill kid buu or not i really dont
@@mrperfectcell5079Sorry for the delay in responding, here we go
1-Dishonest? Should V-Jump who has already made multiple mistakes in his claims be considered? This makes no sense, it doesn't matter if it's an official guide or not, it has very grotesque errors that the manga itself refutes it, even Akira has already refuted one of the quotes in this guide, it makes no sense to try to defend it just because it is official
2- About that part, interpret it the way you want, since the guide talks about Kid Buu and not Goku, idk
3-At no time did I say that praise diminishes the feat, and what fact can I praise if the manga shows the opposite of what was said lol, if I say that your channel or any other UA-camr is the best of the world then automatically is a fact? My God...
4- "I have the raw for the daizenshuu and its here" Wrong, you took it on Twitter and didn't even look to see if this sentence matches the original content or if it's assembled, anyway, I managed to find this part and this sentence in question is about Vegito being the fusion of the two warriors, but then I ask you colleague, what media is the context of that sentence directed to? Anime or manga? When analyzing the guide better, this guide matches the side of the anime and how you you mentioned at the beginning of the video that your arguments are only from the manga so... You already know, and whatever if you only used this part of the guide to prove that Goku is stronger, there is another part of the Daizenshuu mentioning the three, so you can make and defend your point the way you want, idk
5-"Vegeta may not have wanted them to be in the battle (which could be because he thought they would die)" Based on what friend? You trying to put something that hasn't even been said, READ THE MANGA, Goku after hearing Vegeta's request to revive everyone who died asked if his idea was to bring Gohan and Gotenks and Vegeta refused and changing the conversation saying that the Earth will be responsible to defeat Kid Buu, IT'S IN THE MANGA, at no time is it said that Vegeta thought or something, he just denied the help from the children, that's all. "ITS LITERALLY SHOWN THAT THEY GAVE ENERGY STOP BEING DISHONEST" The day that canonically someone mentions that they borrowed everything or is almost on the verge of death from giving energy so much, then we can talk, BECAUSE THERE IS NO PLACE ANYWHERE, instead of trying think I'm being dishonest reread the Saiyan saga that explains very well about Genkidama
6- the EML it's not vague, man you put the V-Jump argument saying that Gohan is stronger than Goku, V-Jump even once said that Super Krillin is stronger than Z Broly and that's it, and only the EML seems vague to you? At no point do the guides explain why character A is more stronger than B and etc. And man, your point of view on that sentence was just your opinion, it doesn't suggest anything at all and the Daizenshuu even said that Goku ssj3 is not capable of killing Kid Buu without charging your energy and focusing it for a minute, and the EML says that Gotenks and Gohan could handle him, and seriously, are you going to use the artwork to try to "improve" your suggestion? I would like to know when an artwork proves something.
7-It is serious? Did you actually read the manga? I myself mentioned in the comment above where Buutenks' phrase was and you simply ignored it and said that I created this sentence, I bet you're not even going after the manga to see if I'm telling the truth or not, you're just stuck in your video argument and my arguments don't matter to you
8- you really don't matter, because simply in the video you mentioned that Kid Buu is stronger than Gohan
Instead of writing everything down and saying with certainty that I'm wrong, that I'm inventing something that doesn't exist, or that I'm interpreting it wrong, reread the manga and don't get stuck in your video itself, I'm already exhausted from looking up every guide you mentioned, so rebut if you want, idk, just pay attention to what you argue
@@gogettoblue5357 you wanna just settle this on discord in vc so we can properly discuss this instead of just typing bibles
Some men just want to watch the world burn 😂 I really like your videos! Goku does say when buutenks powers down to piccolo buu, in regards to himself and gohan fusing, we don’t need to fuse “Gohan can beat you now!” I’m not sure if you mentioned that in the video. I agree the gap between goku and gohan probably isn’t as big as people thought in the past, but I’m one of the guys who will lean towards gohan. I can appreciate a different opinion though!
Did he say Gohan can beat you now?
What I heard was "you don't intend to beat me like this do you Buu?
It was funny Goku powered down to base😂😂
@@anyetsi8817 yes, in the manga he says “gohan can beat you now.” Verbatim lol…IF Goku intended to fight Buu-piccolo, he still would’ve needed Super Saiyan 3, he wouldn’t power down to base haha. Now that I think about it, I actually don’t think Goku could’ve beaten the regular version of super buu, now add in piccolo, goten, and trunks inside him.
@@highduffinition33 are you sure?
Goku just didn't want to fight Buu yet it was till kid Buu that Goku decided to fight
And it's clear the when Buu absorbs weaker individual he gets weaker so I can argue picolo Buu is even weaker than regular super buu
Why do people keep using the spirit bomb as evidence that Goku is stronger than Gohan? It's not like Gohan gave up ALL of his energy to feed into it. He gave a portion, like everyone else does. Goku was also about to shit himself in the manga when Buutenks attacked him. What makes you think Buutenks was bloodlusted? He was still toying with them until his fusion wore off.
It doesn’t matter giving genki is a significant amp above the persons normal capabilities
@@ClubberOntop These “Spirit Bomb” arguments are always so flawed. The spirit bomb is only as good as Goku can even make out of it anyway, so it has no bearing on Gohan, goten, trunks or literally anyone giving their power. Thats more on GOKU. Also, literally nothing about the spirit bomb has anything to do with anyone’s full strength (if it was, all of Goku’s friends would be full powered giving energy, not at base form and defused lol). Its about their spirit energy, and this goes for literally anything, like trees, water, and androids who dont even have ki that youre trying to misconstrue to give, and etc. Goku wasnt even focusing on his friends any way, but the people of earth, because thats what Vegeta simply wanted, for the humans to prove their worth.
I stg people purposely miscontextualize everything just to make their “Goku / Kid Buu” narrative work, but they know its massively flawed and takes a bit of selective reading and lying to get there. Kid buu struggling to kill fucking Vegeta should tell you Gohan stomps all of them with ease lol.
@@LucidTUN3S I agree with most of what you said but kid buu wasn’t struggling to kill vegeta, he’s merely having fun with him and keeping gets alive for his own amusement
@@LucidTUN3S Bro. As stated by Toriyama and the manga, ki is metaphysical in nature and gained ki is an EXPONENTIAL increase.
Example vs Frieza who at 50% was easily above x20 Kaioken Goku, he couldn't stop it and said it almost killed him. It's made to end people with evil ki. So imagine the energy he got from plants and nature from Namek almost finished Frieza.
Versus Kid Buu, he took energy from every living being on Earth, including nature and the Z-fighters. Kid Buu not only blocked it but shoved it right back to Goku. Goku had to magnify it with his power and was really tired after the fight even after getting all of his energy back through the Dragon Balls a second before. Meaning it took a lot of power + Gigantic Spirit Bomb to end kid Buu.
Gohan has nothing in his arsenal that is equal to that in power so he's not beating Kid Buu. So no, Gohan isn't doing better than Goku
@@DirtyDev Gotchu bro, let me try and make my stance a little more clear. There was a point where Kid Buu was shocked, almost scared looking that Vegeta kept getting up. Yea, Kid Buu was playing around, but he was also still trying to kill him, meaning he’s much stronger than anticipated.
And this is Vegeta here. And its not like Kid Buu was suddenly just not sensing ki energy to match. If Vegeta is around the same ball park as Kid Buu, than obviously that makes Kid Buu massively weaker in comparison to Super Buu and Gohan. There would be none of that in Gohan vs Kid Buu. None of this would happen in a Vegeta vs Super Buu fight.
El Manga Legendario says Gohan and Gotenks would be enough if they were there.
It’s a callback to Goku suggesting a 4v1 when Vegeta is actually thinking of the Genki Dama.
El Manga Legendario goes on to say that it HAD to be the Spirit Bomb with ALL contributing to win. So Gohan and Gotenks actually weren’t enough.
It also goes on to say that Buu’s power increased each time he faced Goku, Vegeta and their families.
Some of your arguments are pretty flawed. Toriyama's statements up to that point were constantly inconsistent when compared to earlier db, we can't just take his words at face value, context is key and his writing for the Buu saga was pretty bad, way too many plot hole, Goku's scaling being one of them, there was no indication that Goku grew stronger from Old Kai's lifeforce or Goku's apparent lie about Fat Buu being stronger than him. Another prime example of the guides being inconsistent is Vegeta. Please explain how Vegeta is second to Goku when he was never implied to get some kind of power up like Gohan or Gotenks or supposedly Goku. Statements like that is why I take them with a grain of salt. Call Goku the strongest in the universe all you want but if he needed help to defeat Kid Buu then he clearly isn't the strongest.
Which leads to my next point. The spirit bomb evidence is also extremely flawed as it was only basically pointless energy in the technique with a dead tired Goku who couldn't even use the technique properly. What's the point of loading up a gun with bullets if the gun can't shoot? And besides the spirit bomb doesn't use ki, it uses something else since I doubt stars and planets or ordinary non trained civilians somehow has more than Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, Krillin, 18, and freaking Ultimate Gohan, as indicated by the difference in the spirit bomb's size before and after the civilians gave their energy, that makes no sense.
Buutenks was clearly not bloodlust, don't how you thought that from looking at the scene. And size has never been an issue in dbz especially when Ki control is involved, there was never any implications that suggested it was their size that was the problem, it could've very well been their unfused state as Goku points out in the very next panel. And also, Goku never once implied he was stronger than even base super buu, not once, yet said mentions he could've been beaten Fat Buu or Kid Buu at Full power. Maybe he was lying then.
Bro sum that up I am not reading all of yhay
@@mrperfectcell5079Don't be lazy. 🙄
@@darryltorres7302 bro it literally just took you 2 months to respond to a comment with 12 words
@@mrperfectcell5079 And? I wrote what I had to say and moved on. I literally forgot I even wrote the comment in the first.
@@darryltorres7302 so how you gonna call me lazy even though you didn’t even respond to me after 2 months go sum up your comment bruh that’s too much reading to do on a random ass yt comment
I prefer Goku by far( not DBS Goku ) But Gohan would probably win, because mystic form is quite a bit stronger and does not drain energy.
This point is largely agreed upon in the wider fanbase to be Gohan > Goku, not because there's some hidden truth that no one's uncovered, but because the most credible sources (ie the manga and the guidebooks) can be read and reliably comprehended to give that conclusion.
You can't say that you're only taking into account the manga and then bring up (badly translated btw) toyline magazines and v-jump that ALSO directly contradict the story if you'd read them more carefully (such as Vegeta being the number 2 strongest being one of many inconsistenies). You're using stuff from decades later, and still pretending to be "manga only".
With this logic, you could bring up the production notes for the Universe Survival Arc that say that Gohan was stronger than SS3 Goku not just in the Buu Arc but ALSO in the Battle of Gods arc.
The simplest of ways to deconstruct this: SS3 (dead) Goku was able to have a bit of an upper hand against Fat Buu. SS Gotenks was able to do the same. Super Buu was then able to shrug off SS Gotenks, so HIS SS3 was able to just overpower Super Buu. And Gohan came and stomped him.
As for the argument that Goku was stronger after being given the Elder Kaioshin's life: never is it stated to make Goku stronger. The Zenkai does NOT work that way, otherwise Gohan would ALSO get a Zenkai at the end of the Arc.
The point that puts a nail in the coffin of this argument is that Goku in clear words outright tells Vegeta, that even Super Buu doesn't have anyone absorbed he's still out of BOTH their leagues.
Your argument that their Ki is smaller is an insane stretch because basic comprehension lets you know that he's speaking about actually fighting Buu at normal size. Hell, even if you want to argue that he means to fight Buu from the inside, being smaller CLEARLY doesn't reduce their strength. Vegito got turned into candy and outright said that he's exactly as strong as before. In fact, they got confronted by Buu on the inside ALSO super small, and everyone present confirmed that Buu would easily beat the two. The same Super Buu that Gohan stomped.
Putting all of that context and statements and even the narrative flow itself beneath 1 erroneous V-Jump statement that calls Buuhan equal to SS3 Goku is disingenuous. There's an easier argument to be made that the scan is referring to SS3 Goku AT THE TIME of the Moro Arc.
These things are very clearly stated in the manga itself. Even Kid Buu's scaling is confirmable quite easily. At both points after he absorbs Gotenks and Gohan, he confirms himself to be the strongest Majin ever, putting Kid Buu lower than them. Which completely shatters the V-Jump statement.
Super Buu is the same composition as Fat Buu, but with access to the abilities of the South Kaioshin, which were repressed by the absorption of the gentle Grand Kaioshin. This is literally the reason why Evil Buu and Good Buu are separated, so that Evil Buu can be the one in control.
Kid Buu is formed after removing Good Buu from Super Buu's composition entirely, making him uncontrollably mindless. Kibito Kai again clearly states that he is more dangerous specifically for that reason not because he's more powerful. Even El Manga Legendario flat out says that this form is the most violent but not so strong, and Gohan or Gotenks could have beaten him.
Daizenshuu also calls him weaker than huge Buu whose power was dampened due to Grand Kaioshin's influence. This statement AT BEST puts Kid Buu =< Super Buu.
The Kanzenban Official Guide again says clearly that having Good Buu removed made Super Buu weaker.
This video is jam-packed with cherrypicked references and a blatant disregard to the narrative, context and even your own sources proving you otherwise.
I never used toylike magazines lol and prove v jump contradicts the story lol the only v jump scan I used was the Gohan=Goku one which you for some reason thought I interpreted as Buuhan=Goku it makes absolutely no sense for that scan to be talking about Moro arc Goku since Goku by that time even in regular ssj should have far surpassed anything in Z also no battle of gods guide says Gohan was stronger than goku if anything there are more statements calling Goku the strongest like Vegeta calling him number one and the best fighter in the universe in the first few episodes of dragon ball super
Also I already explained in the video why the super buu>Goku statements is dumb as they clearly were referring to their size with them having absolutely no knowledge they would return to normal once they left buus body and they definitely aren’t the same level of strength as daizenshuu says that vegitos strength not changing was a special characteristic only he possessed plus super buu straight up implys they are weaker due to their size and just because they were scared of buu finding them doesn’t mean they were weaker than the small super buu that was there as buu could endlessly fight create mini clones with goku and vegeta never being able to fully defeat buu due to this so they can be stronger than that mini super buu but still be scared
Also you seem to get the idea that I was arguing kid buu>Buuhan in this video which is a completely wrong I don’t think you even watched the video as buutenks being the strongest Majin, and eml stating he’s not the strongest buu is not at all relevant to the subject of Goku vs Gohan as kid buu can be stronger than Gohan but weaker than buutenks as made up burnet by all the arguments provided in the video which you haven’t really attacked
Also daizenshuu doesn’t say buff buu is stronger than kid buu it says fat buu is weaker than buff buu as it says absorbing the grand Kai made him weaker which is what buff buu did to become fat buu so you blantantly misread the scan
Also kabuto kai saying he’s more dangerous doesn’t mean he didn’t get stronger as he can be more dangerous due to an increase of strength they sr not mutually exclusive stop with this headcanon
Also I don’t think goku got a zenkai i just think elder Kai giving his life to goku amped him as it has been established that burning your life away can grant you an increase in power which is a very big plot point made in the granolah arc and the king piccolo arc and the evidence for him getting stronger would be v jump stating he’s equal to Gohan along with all the other arguments I provided in the video which you failed to attack
So no you made no good points at all I did not cherry-pick anything I just heavily disagree with all the pro super buu and Gohan arguments you made I don’t wanna see you in my community again
Matter of fact we can argue about this in my discord server
Goku thought he was stronger than kid buu at first but then he said he was actually stronger than he was before
For some reason nobody brings that up
I disagree. I think you overcomplicate things and selectively look at statements. In powerscaling, Feats > Scaling > Statements.
Statements that are backed up by multiple legitimate sources > scaling most times tbh. He’s literally using the manga and statements that are being said more than once, twice and even 3x in different parts of the same arc
@@lastfirst1063 he also avoided using some of the most important points that show gohan is stronger. Why was goku so scared of buutenks and buuhan that he needed to fuse but was confident about taking on kid buu. We already know the truth, Japan and his editor pushed for goku to win the day, so akira had to figure something out. That’s why he used the spirit bomb instead of raw strength.
@@Grosvenor77 Yup👍
@crazyasscool7 he hasn't avoided it. Goku literally AT that specific point in time was surpassed until he was revived. What's so hard to wrap your head around this?
@@Grosvenor77 Goku doesn’t need to be stronger than Buutenks or Buuhan to be stronger than Gohan and Vegeta literally tells Goku that they were wrong about Kid Buus power.
For Goku to be > Gohan, 1 of 2 things MUST happen. If the answer to both is "no", then Goku cannot be > Gohan:
Either A: Goku > Gotenks
Or B (if Goku is not > Gotenks): Gotenks > Gohan
Look at B. Is Gotenks > Gohan? Everything said in the manga says, "no". So B is eliminated. We're left with:
Goku > Gotenks. Again, contradicted time and again, so "no".
There it is. Neither requirement was met, so it's impossible for Goku to be stronger than Gohan.
Gohan > Goku.
Im going to do a breakdown video soon, 2 actually, one will be about debunking the entirety of Goku being stronger than a host of characters in the Buu series, and the other will be about Frieza's claim of never training a day in his life; Im going to end this sh1t.
Tbh, that’s a horrible stretch on numerous occasions and it is in fact, really biased. This shows especially during Vegeta’s statement. Did you forget, that Gohan was dead during this time? You’re merely relying on statements from other materials, notorious for spreading mal Information. Fact is, what can be deduced by the Manga only, is that ultimate Gohan is by far the strongest non fused character in the Buu saga.
I'm just going to forget this video exists.
Gohan is considered a Z Warrior before Goku in video games. That should put the icing on the cake
Good video, dragon ball fans can’t read unfortunately and can’t comprehend the very consept that characters can get stronger (especially in db where that’s jammed home) so previously mentioned strength statements no longer apply
PERFECT!
I always believed that Goku had the stronger base form, but Gohan's Ultimate Form is a way stronger Transformation than Super Saiyan 3.
Nah, by the time Goku saw Gohan training, Gohan could swing the Z-sword with minimal strain while Goku was having difficulty swinging it. Safe to say before the Mystic upgrade, Gohan was back to form and went beyond that.
@@nanofate8662nope goku through the metal that destroyed gohan’s sword
@@supesisfodder7427😂😂😂😂 what a lame argument goku himself gave the credit to metal and not his throw🤣🤣🤣🤣... Ultimate gohan will smash goku ssj3 easily
@@aharonmercy6433 nope gohan couldn’t lift it
While goku could
And goku throwing > gohan slicing
Good girl 👧 you embarrassed yourself again
@@supesisfodder7427clearly you didn't watch dbz I can't argue with someone who didn't watch the show
Amazing video bro, and congratulations on 900 subscribers 🥳🥳🥳🎉🎉🎉🎉
Only controversial for illerate people. Gohan is above SSJ3 and Kid Buu. Final form of Buu is the most dangerous because he is least rational Buu persona.
And we have to take Goku's words with a grind of salt. Goku overestimated his own abilities. Firstly, he could possibly kill Fat Buu when he had immortal body, but as normal living person I think his stamina would be a huge problem.
Ironically, you ignore the sources and evidence shown in the video to contradict the standard argument.
@@lordraiden7397 except there’s literally no evidence Goku got amped when he returned to life other than “he reacted to Buutenks.” We’ve seen Goku and Vegeta react to Jiren (before UI) and he was dozens of times stronger. Reaction speed has been shown to be inconsistent, and that’s the only basis to the revival amp argument. Also every quote about Goku being the strongest comes after Gohan was absorbed, or he was not able to enter the fight. Even Vegeta’s statement about Goku being #1 is not credible as Vegeta at this point has never seen either Gohan or Gotenks fight at all.
@@lordraiden7397 Just because this guy's points are in video format doesn't mean he's right lol. This video is extremely selective and just straight up incorrect to push a narrative I don't even think he truly believes (he straight up acknowledges the correct answer in the beginning of the video). He's literally using every other source BUT the manga itself to "confirm" things... even things in different languages... This honestly reads like some of the mess of some trolls I've used to see on GameFaqs DB forums lol.
@@LucidTUN3S I'm just saying man, Im pro gohan but the arguments I've seen aren't holding up right. I only ponder now how bad this affects the buu saga narratively cause, if Goku DID get stronger, it make the entire arc look 1000x times worse.
@@LucidTUN3S whole lotta Jargon lol. What suggests Gohan is stronger?
The way I see it is that kid buu is the strongest buu in the anime because of what goku said and ssj3 goku is stronger than gohan in the anime but in the manga its a very different story buuhan is the strongest buu and ultimate gohan is stronger than ssj3 goku in the manga.
Makes a lot of sense, thanks for the video mate.
Can never give Gohan his flowers 💐 goku can’t be the strongest at times
Do Gohan really deserve flowers ?💐 ask yourself that question
@@forcecalibration924 do goku deserve all the flowers 💐 ask yourself that??
Yeaaaa, Goku wasn’t stronger lolol
Why
In the buu saga I really was disappointed that Ultimate Gohan only got a short time to shine I would have like to see gohan develop more as Ultimate Gohan
I think Super failed Gohan more, because the series should have let Gohan lose to Buu sure, but he should have been trying to perfect his potential as Ultimate Gohan and let that form be his strength for the rest of the series. Instead they kept making it so Gohan barely knew how to do anything, after the Buu Saga. Its terrible. Mastering Ultimate potential should have been ongoing. Instead he loses one fight and they just forget about it.
In a real fight ssj3 goku would run out of juice while ultimate gohan would conserve his power far better.
Exactly, that's the only way gohan would win ssj3
i love how he cherry picks a few time it was suggested goku to be stronger and disregard the ton of statements and claims that gohan was by far stronger i mean lets face the facts goku was struggling against kid buu while gohan was curve stomping super buu who was vastly more powerful than kid buu
I can't even believe Goku fanboys are still arguing this, the sad thing is, it is sad even if Goku was as strong as Gohan, it still took Goku 3 transformations to equal a base Gohan💀💀💀💀💀
@@gangstagummybear3432 technically thats not base gohan because gohan in his base isnt ss3 level his power unleash state is only achieved through elders kais ritual which allows him to push out all his potential power without the need of transforming so technically that is classified either as a technique or a state/transformation
Where is it ever stated or shown that Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu though?
@@gangstagummybear3432 already debunked you on your terrible argument and narrative. L.
@@petrospago3515 It is definitely base, else Goku wouldnt have thrown the fusion ring to Gohan without telling him to power down out of his so called transformation, which he didnt. Old kai told Goku to not transform as you will run into problems if you can never power down and the fusion is permanent, so he should have told Gohan to power down, this is as much a "form" or "transformation" as Vegeta in his fights with Goku and Frieza post healing from Dende those 2 powerups.
NEVER trust any source other than the manga itself. At the VERY end of the Boo Saga Goku IS stronger than Gohan since the last time Gohan trained was 10yrs ago on the Kai planet with the Z sword🤓
I don’t think Goku was ever surpassed. I think he was just suppressed at the beginning of the Saga.
Gohans latent potential surpasses Goku's and ultimate is the realisation of said potential Gohan claps Goku.
Goku saying he can beat fat Buu is meaningless especially when he was wrong several times in the same arc.
Goku made the statement of them not being super buu level without the knowledge of him being weakened he tried blasting out of buu only realize that he can't he was surprised he wasnt aware that he was weakened either because of potara draining his energy or because of he was shrunk or maybe both.
Saiyans do increase in power yes the BOG statement refers to Saiyans becoming stronger by fighting someone else who is stronger ( not weaker) because they are pushed to their limits same with the bardock scan. Vegeta scan is refering to Zenkai boost same with the Frieza scan. The TOP scan is in reference to unlocking a new form and the "revive" scan is literally Zenkai boosts from near death injury. Saiyans don't randomly increase in power only when they are fighting someone superior which in Goku's case never happened in the buu arc.
Kid buu was toying with Goku so goku in no way shape or form scales to him and this makes sense because kid buu was stated to be getting stronger not weaker when he was transforming from super buu to kid buu also, Gohan wasn't transformed into ultimate when he gave goku his energy so its not an Anti-Feat.
Gohan has lore and better feats than Goku in the Buu arc.
Goku admits repeatedly that he stands no chance against Super Buu. Gotenks can at least fight against him in SSj and can arguably overwhelm him in SSj3. Goku needs SSj3 to do what Gotenks can do in SSj, which is a losing battle for both of them in those states. Gohan is stronger than SSj3 Gotenks. There is no argument for Goku here. He loses.
Cope
Actually Gotenks pulled off a bigger feat than Goku did at any time to a much weaker Buu, which was blow Super Buu completely up in SSJ, also the fat buu that beat up pre time chamber Gotenks was stronger than when he fought Goku, so I disagree Goku matched SSJ Gotenks at all, other than bs post Gohan absorption terrible powerscaling nonsense Akira did at the end of this wacky backtracking retconning arc.
Congrats bro, keep it up! Def wanna see that kid buu vs buuhan video asap! Maybe a Dabura vs Cell, all the really contentious fights and debates I guess 😂
I mean I kinda already discussed cell Vs dabura in the second part to how strong is cell but yeah thx I’ll keep it up
@@mrperfectcell5079 oh dang didn’t see that I’ll go check it out.
Thank you for making this. Great points and also Goku, like he himself said at that point in the story, takes so long to get into ssj3 that it's pretty much useless in battle anyways. On top of his lack of mastery with ssj3, the insane ki and stamina drain was worse than kaioken which should make it obvious how much stronger he'd be if he'd had the time to completely make it his own
wasn’t that dramatic effect, he instantaneously went into ssj3 against buutenks and you can see that here at 4:12 and then he also didn’t take that long against kid buu
It's not as bad as kaioken. Kaioken only last for a split 2nd then he reverts and does it over again
I agree with you on this one. Most objective evidence points towards Goku being stronger but a vast majority of the fanbase denies it.
Gohan >> Super Buu = SS3 Gotenks >>>>>> SS3 Goku >= Kid Buu
So you didn’t watch the video, or ignored what’s in the video to comment an incorrect and ignorant claim. What suggests Gohan, Super Buu, Gotenks are stronger than Goku and Kid Buu?
Ok just ignore everything I said that completely shatters this entire scale actually watch the video first then come say this
Yes I watched the video and I respect ur opinion but there’s more evidence that Gohan and super buu is stronger than Goku if we going strictly from the manga. Why else would he want to do the fusion dance with Vegeta to fight base Super buu if he was stronger? Nothing implies he thought they’d still be small if they left his body
@@UniVS427 yeah he does if he’s suggesting fusion in the first place lol. For your argument to work you have to prove Goku knew they would have returned to full power upon leaving Buus body. And no there is little to no evidence supporting Gohan being stronger. You can’t nitpick one scene compared to the overwhelming amount of guides that state Goku being stronger.
@@UniVS427 uh yes they are implications. For one goku has never seen anyone leave buus body before so idk why he would think he would return to normal and for two goku is literally suprised when him and the others return to normal size after they do leave buus body which again seems odd if goku already knew he would return to normal
Insanely great video my G. I'm actually going to change my Mind on this fight because of this videos evidence and rhetoric.
Finally, an interesting video is suggested to me.
I always knew ss3 goku was stronger than that fodder. People love to meat ride gohan because of the nostalgic cell games.
Now they saying that beast gohan is on par with mui goku and ue vegeta. What a load of crap
Kid buu is not stronger than buuhan and a lot of these was debunked in the manga and the Japanese dub of the anime
Toriyama confirmed Kid Buu is the strongest Buu so your wrong
Gohan wins this easily even gotenks beats goku this was shown by the feats and statements. and gohan is even above that I can drop some scaling if you want. and goku beating up a clone is just BS even tho it’s in the anime and we are talking about the manga that’s just BS still with the statements and feats. It’s even stated in el manga legendario that Gohan would have beat kid buu easily and y’all still think Goku wins. 😂😂😂 y’all know Goku can’t win but keep trying to wank him when he can’t even beat kid buu who is weaker than super buu by statements and feats. you just use statements for goku and kid buu with no feats to back it up we all know the truth but I get that your bias.
How does Super Buu have better feats? And El Manga Legendario state Con Gohan y Gotenks which is teamwork and the illustration show a combined attack. Statements support Kid Buu and Goku being stronger.
@@jarrettbrewer2892 But feats dont support them being stronger, Evil Buu had a much easier time defeating Fat Buu than Kid Buu did, and he was far weaker than Super Buu, and Goku was having an even fight with a Buu that had a harder time beating a Buu that Evil Buu beat up much easier; lol I couldnt care less about redacted statements made by Goku wankers
@@gangstagummybear3432 yeah they do and Kid Buu was just playing with an enraged Fat Buu. So Vegeta stating Goku is the only one who can fight Kid Buu is “wanking?” Goku confirming that Kid Buu would have killed everyone while Gohan is alive is “wanking” Daizenshuu stating Kid Buu is the strongest in the universe is “wanking” really?
@@jarrettbrewer2892 Vegeta says goku is the only one who can fight buu referring to he is the only one there. because gohan and gotenks has the better feats and statements on there side. goku says even if him and vegeta fought super buu even after they removed everyone from him goku says him and vegeta are still no match for super buu. and says they needs to fuse unlike what he said about kid buu he was confident he would beat him and even stated If he could hit the full power he could kill kid buu. also when vegeta said that gohan and gotenks were dead. they purposely killer them off and they purposely made kid buu destroy the earth. and they purposely made them fight on another world so that when they come back they can’t reach the battle field. they made so much reasons so that gohan and gotenks wouldn’t fight kid buu because they would have destroyed him. You do realize goku and vegeta was together and it’s statements saying goku and vegeta put they were fighting alone. gohan has the statements and feats with vegeta he was talking about goku is the ONLY one there who can fight him. gohan and the boys were dead at the time they were killed of so they wouldn’t defeat kid buu gohan has statements and feats we can debate this is discord. also it doesn’t say probably so stop making up stuff. 😂😂😂 also kid buu statements are valid I got the feats and statements to back it up kid buu was just hyped up because it was the end game goku even stayed with SSJ3 Fp he could have beat kid buu. and we know goku isn’t on gohan’s lvl with the feats and statements Goku admitted they couldn’t beat super buu and this was buu without gohan and anyone absorbed. Goku stated him and Vegeta still can’t win and he would still kill then easily why do you think Gohan and gotenks were killed off? why do you think they had the battle on a world gohan or gotenks couldn’t reach? why do you think they purposely kept gohan and gotenks out of the fight? why do you think they made kid buu destroy the earth? and no vegeta is not on fat buu lvl fat buu has the way better feats vegeta was just getting destroyed. fat buu was actually making kid buu mad. kid buu is stated to be the most dangerous buu but he’s not the strongest. also gotenks and gohan do have the statements I just gave some and they have the better feats. also goku says I could have beaten the fat buu but I wanted gohan and the boys to have something to do. and he felt confident he could beat kid buu and he says if he can hit the full power he could kill kid buu. he never says he could beat super buu and this backs up what I was saying earlier when goku said both of them are still no match for him. so you’re wrong bud. also you’re a goofy the feats literally shows SSJ2 Goku is above SSJ2 Vegeta literally vegeta couldn’t even land a hit on him or do anything to him. and he literally says he’s no match for him vegeta needed the majin boost to equal SSJ2 Goku he literally says this and it was shown. they were stated to he equal when vegeta has the majin boost. also goku didn’t defeat kid buu with his own power bud cope harder yes he beat him but not with his power so cope. also the reason I said something about vegeta powers and others stuff you didn’t say nothing about is because you said it in another comment so I’m just relying to it here. also I never heard vegeta say that goku is the only one and even if he said that he was talking about out of them vegeta says your better than me kakarot your number 1. but he was talking about out of them he never says oh your stronger than gohan your stronger than gotenks. he probably doesn’t even know about there power up he probably still thinks it’s the gohan from the dubura fight because considers himself 2nd when at this point he’s not. It goes gohan,gotenks,goku,vegeta even gohan after the z sword training surpassed goku and vegeta with statements but he’s not stronger than SSJ3 goku. but when they talk about gohan’s new power after z sword training goku never says gohan is no match for buu he says he doesn’t know if gohan powers surpasses buu.
@@Nothing106 bet attach your discord we’ll debate it.
We all know Gohan is by far the saiyan with the biggest potential
THANK YOUUUUU
GOKU SSJ3 VS KID BUU > ULTIMATE GOHAN VS SUPER BUU
KID BUU > BASE SUPER BUU
BUUTENKS/BUUHAN > KID BUU
This was a great video ya got yourself a sub
I think we're trying to make sense to an obviously inconsistent part of the story. All the statements about Goku and kid Buu being so strong (contradicted as many times anyway) were simply a way to hype the ending of the saga, as the last battle it "should" be between the strongest warriors. So Toriyama just trapped himself at that point in the story, since they really couldn't be that strong simply from a logical point of view.
If the old Kai giving his life increased Goku's power, honestly, it would have been stated somewhere in the story.
It will always be a contentious point simply because the story doesn't make sense. So I'll stick to the logical point of view, in which Gohan should be stronger.
Also we can just look at Fat Buu vs Kid Buu. Kid Buu was stronger but not for a huge margin. And we know Goku was a bit above Fat Buu in the beginning of the arc so according to their performance vs Kid Buu, Goku should be at the same level which implies that Gotenks should be above Goku and Kid Buu and Gohan above them all.
@@joaosoares2570moron he was way stronger
these are the same people who think kid buu is somewhere near as strong as buuhan. Ahahahaha
Wut? Just because I said goku beats Gohan doesn’t mean I think kid buu over buuhan. There are tons of people who have Buuhan>Kid Buu>Super Buu
@@mrperfectcell5079*even though he's back to his normal form we still don't stand a chance against him* ~ Goku
Goku stating not only that he, but also the two of them with Vegeta cannot stand a chance against the same Super Buu who Gohan basically ragdolled.
@@mrperfectcell5079So if Gohan is marginally stronger than Super Buu, whom Goku stands no chance against with.
Every statements in regards to Goku being the strongest is just a hyperbole, and it is not logical to take them literally.
for debunk that we only need to debunk your argument about goku saying that only because he is small .
Buu was also small .
There you go debunked Gohan is stronger goku cant beat super buu without fusion .
Ultimate gohan would absolutely dominate super saiyan 3 goku not only because hes stronger and faster but goku cant sustain that form for long he said so himself and gohan has no time limit because thats his full potential unlocked
Toriyama himself said Goku was the strongest in DBZ so I would say the creator's word is more worth than what is stated and shown in the manga/anime etc. But granted, sometimes he forgot what he actually did in his own series lol
Strongest Arguments for Goku:
1. Vegeta says Goku is the best/number 1
2. Gohan+ Z fighters energy wasn't even close to enough to throw at Kid Buu
3. Goku beats Gohan inside Super Buu
Bonus: Goku killed Kid Buu, Gohan was killed by Kid Buu XD
Great video my guy, keep up the good work.
Dragon Ball was always Goku Time. GT just held up the traditions and Super made it into a literal meme made real scenario
Great video. New subscriber I’m bout to dip through the content.
Goku didn’t think that he had a level after SSJ3. Still doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have found the next level if pushed…
what make buu saga's scaling even more controversial is the fact that anime and manga has completely different scalings, and most people only watched the anime
Kai removed a chunk of that filler though and fixed the character statements.
I don't think that picture of the trio from El Manga Legendario should be used to imply they'd 3v1 Kid Buu, as it is important to note that is *not* Goku from the late end of the Buu saga.
gohan ultimate wins in the war of attrition though
toei likes giving goku all the wins too bad
Great video!
For those who are still not convinced after all the evidence shown in the video, let me bring this up. The Spirit Bomb was always the final attack used against opponents too strong for Goku to beat by himself.
Against Frieza, who at 50% was way above even x20 Kaioken Goku, he couldn't stop it and almost got K.O
He used it against Oozaru Vegeta and thought that if he could full charge it, it would defeat a monster over 20 times stronger than him (base Goku over 8,000 vs base Vegeta 18,000 x10 Oozaru boost).
Kid Buu not only blocked a Spirit Bomb charged by every being on Earth, including Ult Gohan but also pushed it back to Goku. Goku had to magnify it with his own power to end him and you saw him be tired even though he just got all his energy back through the Dragon Balls, meaning it took a lot of Goku's power + Gigantic Spirit Bomb to finish Kid Buu.
Gohan has nothing on that level of power to end Buu so he gets washed. Only Goku + Spirit Bomb can do it
Before anyone says anything, remember that in canon, Goku had the biggest zenkai boosts in the story and he's obviously going to grow more powerful than early Buu saga. His power was never stagnant, not once in the story
@@elayemedidris7282you are correct
Vegeta didn't experienced Gohan fight so he didn't know. Plus, Goku was his prime rival, not Gohan.
Who is the strongest in the universe during this specific arc? The answer is Goku. This can easily be proven in the manga and anime. The reason why fans don’t need to stick with one or just the other day because they are both congruent to one another and come to the same conclusion even though some specific events are not shown in the manga. That’s fine because the anime still elaborate and ask greater detail. According to Akira Toriyama The Manga DBZ & The Anime DBZ KAI are synonymous to each other and are both canon. Yes, that includes all filler in KAI.
Essentially this is a kin to a mathematical problem. You got the answer correct, which is Goku. However, how you solved the problem is incorrect. Let me explain. It’s like getting the right answer to a mathematical equation but you never actually solved the problem accurately to get answer. You just happened to guess correctly, but you can’t show all the work you did specifically, bcuz the equation is not balanced out.
Goku did not get stronger from getting his life revitalized by the Elder Supreme Kai. The only thing that was exchanged was specifically life force for a non life force. For any fan to suggest otherwise is illogical, bcuz there is zero evidence to support that thesis. Including zero hints to go on.
Goku is the strongest Z fighter during this specific arc, the entire time. Even with fighter’s training, or gettin their inner potential unlocked. Or magic enhanced potential unlocked.. ie Majin Vegeta. All Saiyans in The Buu Arc received Zero Zenkai Boosts. This core principle was established by Goku in The Cell Arc, and reiterated by Gohan vs Super Buu (SSJ3 Gotenks Absorbed) aka Fusion Buu, in The Buu Arc. Any fan who says otherwise is lying. And doin so with the sole purpose to create a false narrative that suits their faulty perspective. In order to expose them on their error, simply ask them to provide evidence in either the Manga or the Anime of a Zenkai Boost for any Saiyan u mention. Be sure to specify, they are not allowed to use their own interpretation. They must provide concrete evidence. You will then be listening to crickets do to their silence.
Now remember, it is not only biased fans in the comments, it is also a lot of content creators who will attempt to deceive you. You are most likely to believe them, bcuz they got A & C correct, but they are wrong about B. There is usually a disconnect one way or the other. So you must be very cautious. There must be a collective collaboration of evidence that can be tracked in both the manga and the anime to to support their claims. For example when I say SSJ2 Goku was Overwhelmingly & Exceedingly Stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta, Pre-Majin Power Up. There is concrete evidence in the Manga & Anime that back my claim. When u hear someone say “Ya know, Goku wasn’t much Stronger than Vegera b4 The Majin Power Up.” You know they are clearly lying bcuz what they said is a complete contradiction of what we (the audience) are shown and told in the manga & the anime. When it comes to DBZ (Manga) & DBZ KAI (Anime) it is never versus. The Manga & Anime are synonymous & canon to each other. Two different rivers that flow into one.
I’m going to make another comment and going to further detail explain why Goku is the strongest in this specific arc. But for now there’s one thing you left out. That is vital and key to why Goku is the strongest. Goku never use 100% of his maximum power level until he fought Kid Buu. Goku has been the only Z fighter who has been suppressing his power level, until said time. Power level altering and suppression is key which was established in the first part of the series.
That Saikyo Jump article shows a picture of SSJ2 Goku when it shows Gohan surpassing him.
I have manga Goku > manga Gohan, too.
Exactly
Cap
@@martavion873
Fact
Almost 600 subs??!! Well look at you my mf GGGG you at 2.7kkk Almost 3k my Boi gettin there! Ika he first to say it ROAD TO 100K!! IMA BE WITH HIM TILL THEN AND FURTHER SOOON! nah but fr tho congrats my G frfr, proud of you, You got the full potential to have a as powerful KI as saiyan scholer someday brooo
The manga and anime itself is superior to the guidebooks when it comes to credibility, and your entire argument is based off of them. Not only that, but you assume way too many times. You could literally just chalk up the guidebooks claiming Goku is the strongest as them just hyping Goku up just because hes the main character. I literally debunked every single one of your points in my head, thats how bad this "evidence" is
Except the anime nor the manga point to Gohan being stronger lol. Guides like Daizenshuu are completely reliable as Toriyama himself stated that the staff is more knowledgeable than himself on the series. All guidebooks are approved by Bird Studios who own the rights to dragon ball. You “chalking up the guidebooks” claiming Goku is stronger is just “hyping him up” is literally an assumption. Nothing in the manga nor anime suggests Gohan is stronger.
The guidebooks didn’t hype up Goku in the Cell saga despite being the main character and Gohan being stronger.
Manga definitely IMO favors Gohan being stronger than Goku. Anime turns that around.
@@nosauceorbrothchild8772 it doesn’t. Vegeta explicitly states Goku is the only one who can fight Kid Buu and Goku states after Kid Buu is defeated that Kid Buu would have killed everyone, Gohan included as he was alive.
@@jarrettbrewer2892 How the heck could Vegeta have possibly known something like that? And Vegeta was fighting Kid Buu, so was Fat Buu, am I supposed to believe SSJ3 Gotenks and Gohan would do worse than Good Buu?
It’s crazy it took this long for someone to spit some facts in a video about this debate tbh. I’ve seen to much ss3 downplay for Goku. I understand the Gohan hyped and at times I even convinced myself that maybe he is the strongest unfused warrior at that time, but it’s been implied that Goku was the strongest by the end and that’s been true all these years. Super gave them more shine and power ups, even with the new movie we find ourselves debating who’s stronger UI Goku and Beast Gohan. So to be honest as a fan of both I find these debates interesting and either side your own it’s nice to know two of my favorites are powerful enough to cause those debates. Vegetas is really awesome as well.
Congrats bro
Considering Goku’s ss3 wasn’t compatible with his living body, and he could charge it up for a minute he wouldn’t get in a normal fight, I don’t think Goku being the strongest would contradict much if we put him on a timer given his superior technique at the time
Yeah guides say Buu weakens losing absorptions which is supported by Buuhan going back to Super Buu, and Super Buu is Kid Buu with Fat Buu absorbed. Simple as that. Both Goku and Vegeta think Kid Buu is also weak enough to handle and Goku's statement is pretty consistently implied to be valid if not for Super Saiyan 3 having dog ass stamina. "But they mean size" I know people use this retarded defense but do you really think they didn't just sense his power when previously commenting on Buu's power rising and shrinking?
Goku also literally says bringing the boys would beat Kid Buu AFTER Goku and Vegeta are completely exhausted, and the Spanish guide says they'd win easily. Goku's only equal to Buu and if you bullshit Kid Buu mattering to BUUHAN that's literally impossible.
Post Buu saga Goku is above Gohan though, stated for Battle of Gods, Wrath of the Dragon/Fusion Reborn (Goku is explicitly stated the same power in these films) and you can imply it for Yo Son Goku though Goku there only really scales above Gotenks (Ss1 vs SS1) ) but by a good amount.
Goku didn't say Gohan and Gotenks would beat Kid Buu, what he actually said was: *"Oh, I know! You'll bring Gohan and Gotenks back to life so they can fight"*
@@TioCellEvolution786 Which is exactly what that says, since Goku and Vegeta both lost and Goku was asking what Vegeta's SOLUTION to Buu was, thinking it was the boys.
I’m shocked by the sheer amount of gohan fans trying to use evidence that he clearly discredited during the video. I 100% believe thru gokus initial lie about his power and refusal to show his full power until the end pretty clearly shows he’s at the very least 90% of ultimate gohans power. It’s also stated in the manga that he has never once used ss3 at its peak due to power consumption. Basically He hadn’t mastered the form yet and was still only learning how to use it. By the end of the arc he was shaking the entire afterworld just like gohan, his power was so great that none of the kais could even watch his fight. Goku actually out maneuvered buutenks numerous times and managed to land big blows were gohan was literally crapping his pants and froze.
I 1000% stand by goku by the end of the show and manga did regain a power advantage over gohan. It’s foolish to really think otherwise. Thru zen kai boosts and pushing his limits over and over i truly believe goku was back on top. Was it sustainable for long fight probably not but if it came down to a beam struggle or a single attack goku would take it thru jussi unloading it all in one attack.
The fact you think goku can win is crazy when it’s literally stated gohan would have made the fight vs kid buu easy if he was there. and he has the better feats and statements on his side goku loses and it’s not even close.
You were watching the wrong fight, "buutenks" fight vs Gohan and vs Goku was totally different, if you watch the fight vs Gohan, he actually fought Gohan initially looking quite even, then afterwards he began using Picollo's intellect, which let him fight alot smarter, Buu didnt initiate any of the fighting vs Gohan unless Gohan initiated it first, he was completely reactionary in his fight vs Gohan, thus attacking Gohan after he dodged his attack, or after he was in progress of recovering from another attack, Buu only attacked Gohan after he attacked, or via long distance with energy blasts, aside from that was very wait for Gohan's attack then attack, kinda like Cell vs Trunks. Now compare that to Goku, he was fully willing to fight Goku straight up, and Goku was the one sh1tting himself, not Gohan, I am fully sure that outside of energy blasts, Buu would have never initiated battle with Gohan even with Gotenks and Picollo's power, go watch the whole fight over again and you can see what I mean, any time Gohan was on guard, unless Gohan attacked, Buu with Gotenks and Picollo didnt want the smoke, that is how strong Gohan still was compared to that Buu, he needed Picollo's mind to beat Gohan, there were several other advantages that Gotenks Picollo Buu had over Gohan too like Gohan not seeing the fight Buu had with Gotenks, thus hitting that super ghost or whatnot.
@@Nothing106moron
@@gangstagummybear3432moron
Goku fought gohan clone and said it's as strong as the real one and goku absolutely stomps him
True but this video is based upon the manga so unfortunately I cannot use that as evidnecey
Gohan is STILL the strongest. No God ki, no ultra instinct no ultra ego. That man energy alone is able to keep up with ultra instinct. Kefla as a FUSED CONTROLLED legendary ssj 2 couldn't even touch ultra instinct Goku. Just shows Gohan actually has more energy than BROLY
Goku told Vegeta that even together they couldn't beat Super Buu so...
Goku SSJ3 + Vegeta SSJ2 < Mystic Gohan
1 year ago 600 subscribers
This is the same saga where people try to say Base Vegeta (who is weaker than Goku) > Piccolo, but then go later on to say Base Goku < 100% Frieza. Full of contradictions, but yet, it's not a bad saga. It's actually great. Toriyama just began writing himself into a corner sometimes during this.
I utterly do not see nor believe that Old Kai's life force somehow gave Goku more power. It didn't. He as just given more life as he is a supreme kai. Nothing that was done showed that Goku had more power after that.
Watch the video 💀
@@machocin2983 I did, its simply nonsense though
@@machocin2983 I second that. You can't lay out any event or action Goku did to say otherwise.
SSJ3 Goku is definitely stronger
talk about booming growth, already at 1k now
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks was equal to Super Buu. The anime didn't have him fight much, but that's because he was awaiting Gohan as he felt him far off.
Gohan is way stronger
bro did not watch the video
@rafiqlabrado1368 he did not lol
This makes Buu Arc even worse, unironically speaking.
Gohan was always stated to have the greatest potential and latent power out of every character and for Goku to be suddenly stronger than him is such a slap to the face and the fact how fucked up of scaling it is is beyond me. Before you call me "Gohantard" - I also dislike his Ultimate form - more accurately how it turns Gohan into an even more arrogant brat than he was during the Cell Games. However, Gohan AT LEAST had to go through a silly ritual to gain his power up. Goku gets stronger because of magic bullshit - lifeforce, 'saiyan ability', etc. I won't even talk about Vegeta..
I'm not saiyng you're wrong. You've made very good points and I recognize them. That doesn't stop me from not liking the truth, though. Especially when it ruins things on so many levels.
For one, congrats on passing 1,000 subscribers!
Yeah, gotta disagree with a lot of the 'evidence' in the video. I think we can ALL agree that the manga AND anime Buu Saga is arguably the worst saga in the franchise when it comes to power scaling. Yes, I know Super and the video game promo Super DB Heroes is just next level insane when it comes to scaling. However, I think the Buu Saga is when the scaling started to go out of the window.
I will say this much, if Goku and Vegeta constantly grew in power even after minor scuffles with Buu then I'd fully agree with them being ultra powerful by the time Kid Buu came around. Mind you, I'm talking about if their power growth in the Buu Saga was as broken as it was during the Goku Black & T.O.P. arcs from DB Super.
Goku & Vegeta getting more powerful post-Potara would be pretty cool, but that feels too much like video game logic. Basically, because Vegito was getting a 'workout' from dunking on Buu for 4 episodes, they got a ton of experience points lol
Also, the whole thing about a fighter's power on earth NOT being sensed from the Kai planet (or vice versa) isn't the strongest argument. For example, why didn't the fighters on earth sense Goku's power when he first went SS3 in the other world (offscreen of course)? Future Trunks didn't want Vegeta to know he 'surpassed him' after their time chamber training to beat the androids. Um, you two were in the SAME CHAMBER. If you unlocked SS Grade 3, wouldn't he have sensed your strength? Not to mention, Vegeta was implied to unlock the form too and chose NOT to use it due to the drawbacks. Did Trunks not sense that either?
Prior to the escape from Buu's body, I don't think Goku was referring to 'base Super Buu' killing them because they were really tiny. Seriously, Gogeta (flea size) would do a better job at NOT getting killed? Ok, to be fair we saw a candy size Vegito giving Buuhan the business but still...
I think it was clear that Goku was referring to their full-size bodies after escaping Buu's body.
Buutenks literally called himself the MIGHTEST MAJIN and then mentioned how he had even MORE power without a time limit after absorbing Gohan.
When it comes to guidebooks and whatnot, aren't those typically written by people who aren't the directors/writers on the show? Of course, they'll hype things up by mentioning how this character is far stronger than the last 'strongest character' just to sell the story.
Finally, I don't think that 'Gohan couldn't beat Kid Buu because the Spirit Bomb formed via him, Trunks, Goten & Piccolo (before anyone else gave their ki) was said NOT to be strong enough to kill him' is a good argument AT ALL. They gave a PORTION of their energy not ALL of it!
Facts
This is the same saga where people try to say Base Vegeta (who is weaker than Goku) > Piccolo, but then go later on to say Base Goku < 100% Frieza. Full of contradictions, but yet, it's not a bad saga. It's actually great. Toriyama just began writing himself into a corner sometimes during this and this resulted in such inconsistency. I'm glad people disagree with this video.
Hybrid vs super saiyan
A fucking awesome sight
one year later… Let’s do it!!! Goku is The Strongest In The Universe” In The Frieza Arc, The Cell Arc, Gohan becomes The Strongest, Goku is The Strongest In The Universe in The Buu Arc. “It was the use of ki that allowed Goku to Be The Strongest In The Universe.” - Akira Toriyama.
“Goku Is The Strongest In The Universe during The Buu Arc.” That is the truth. Let’s get into the evidence.
1) No Saiyan in The Buu Arc ever receives a Zenkai Boost. The Saiyans only get Stronger by means of training or gettin their inner potential unlocked by magical or mystical means.
2) Goku never received a Zenkai Boost & he never got Stronger in The Buu Arc. This is highlighted with Gohan vs Super Buu (SSJ3 Gotenks Absorbed) aka Fusion Buu. All of Goku’s p.l. increase, specifically came from 7 years of training, end of the Cell Games.. in prep for The World Martial Arts Tournament. We see a a tiny bit of Goku’s training in Otherworld. That’s it, that’s all.
3) In The Cell Games Vegeta was weaker than a Cell Jr. after 7 years of training, SSJ2 Vegeta became equal to Super Perfect Cell. We know this is true bcuz Vegeta never surpassed SSJ2 Teen Gohan. Vegeta used the Majin Magic Power Up to be equal to Goku’s power level. Vegeta finally surpassed SSJ2 Teen Gohan, in the process of becoming Goku’s equal in.. Base Form, SSJ, SSJ2 creating Majin Vegeta. Prior to this moment. Goku was Overwhelmingly Stronger than Vegeta. Vegeta only realized this the moment Goku used a glimpse of his SSJ2 power against Yakon.
4) Goten is equal to Gohan who stopped training & fighting for 7 years straight. It is shown in their spar. The only reason Gohan didn’t lose to Goten is bcuz Goten could not fly. Trunks being Stronger than Goten also means Trunks is Stronger than Gohan at this moment. Gohan is now weaker than SSJ Vegeta then, whom was weaker than a Cell Jr. This means Gohan lost well over 2/3 of his SSJ2 Teen power level. Gohan stayed decreasing his power level, meanwhile Vegeta only increased throughout the 7 years.
5) Gohan was highly impressed with how Strong Goten is. Vegeta was highly impressed with how strong Trunks was in base form, more so as an SSJ. Goku was the only one not impressed with Goten & Trunks’ power level. Why? Goku Being The Strongest in The Universe, when a fighter is weaker than, or far weaker than him. Goku looks at those fighters unimpressed. This is the exact same thing that happened in The Cell Games with Goku & Gohan being unimpressed with Goku’s fight versus Perfect Cell.
6) When Goku transformed into Super Saiyan 3 to fight Fat Buu. Goku was Heavily..Heavily Suppressed. Goku told Fat Buu “I’ll bring a fighter Stronger than I am.” When Goku told Fat Buu he’d bring a fighter Stronger than himself. Goku’s was essentially saying, I’m going to bring a fighter to you stronger than the current heavily suppressed power level, I have shown you. Context.
What’s more, a heavily suppressed SSJ3 Goku was so Powerful, his “ki” energy aka power level was felt from Earth all the way to The Kaioshin Planet. The distance between earth and the planet of the Kai’s is so great, it makes Snakeway look insignificant in comparison. Gohan’s “ki” energy aka power level was also felt from the planet of The Kai’s, to the distance of Earth.
It is interesting to note, SSJ3 Gotenks “ki” energy aka power level is also capable of being felt from the distance of Earth to The Kaioshin planet. However, he does not have the ability to sense power levels from that great distance. He is too immature and too inexperienced. Goku & Gohan have far more battle experience, which is why they can sense power levels from that great distance and Gotenks cannot.
7) This Must Be Re-Established to Fully Understand What I’m About To Say Next.. SSJ3 Goku Heavily suppressed is weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks Maximum Power Level.
Base Form Gotenk is slightly Stronger than Base Form Goku. If this is true, then how is it possible for SSJ3 Goku Max Power Level to be Stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks Max Power Level?
We already understand and have established and know 100% that the story narrative in both the manga DBZ and the anime DBZ Kai has already stated in reference to The Buu Arc.. Goku Is The Strongest In The Universe. Akira Toriyama has also stated this.. “It Was The Use Of Ki That Allowed Goku To Be The Strongest In The Universe.” - Akira Toriyama.
How is it possible for Base Form Gotenks to be slightly Stronger than Base form Goku, yet weaker than SSJ3 Goku 100%? Simple. The Super Saiyan 3 Multiplier is Not 400x!!! Also, The SSJ3 form is a range multiplier.. allow me to explain. Super Saiyan 3, 200x Minimum Multiplier, 300x Maximum Multiplier. Goku 3.6 Billion x 200 (Min Multiplier) = 720 Billion. Gotenks 4 Billion x 200 (Min Multiplier) = 800 Billion (Stronger than Goku). Goku 3.6 x 300 (Max Multiplier) = 1 Trillion 80 Billion. (Overwhelmingly Stronger than Gotenks). This concept fulfills the requirement that Goku is The Strongest In The Universe. While simultaneously meeting the condition of heavily suppressed SSJ3 Goku influencing Goten & Trunks. To create Gotenks who was inspired to attain SSJ3 from watching & feelin a heavily suppressed SSJ3 Goku’s power level.
What’s more, if Gotenks had the Max Multiplier Potential 300x of The SSJ3 form, his 5 min would’ve been reduced to 3 sec to 30 sec as a fusion. Why? Because the amount of power is far too great it exceeds the fusion. They were supposed to have already 30 minutes in the fusion form as standard. At their level of power it was reduced down to five minutes. If they were able to accept the maximum power level of SSJ3 form that five minutes would be then reduce down to either 30 seconds or three seconds. Rendering the fusion dance useless.
8) Super Buu is equal to SSJ3 Gotenks. Goku & Gohan is Massivel Overwhelmingly & Exceedingly Stronger than Super Buu + Piccolo. This is apparent because this version of Super Buu + Piccolo is afraid to fight SSJ3 Goku. When moments earlier Super Buu + SSJ3 Gotenks was superior to both Goku & Gohan. This means both Goku & Gohan are far Stronger, individually than Super Buu w/o any Absorptions, bcuz both Goku & Gohan are Massively Overwhelmingly & Exceedingly Stronger than Super Buu with the Added Power Level of Piccolo. This places SSJ3 Gotenks as the 3rd Strongest, with Goku & Gohan far above him.
Bro just seen the comments it’s crazy how db fans are so close minded and just ill informed they are on there own favourite series
Strong argument but your debunk kinda falls flat.Super Buu was also small when Goku made that statement.We've seen that size and shape don't affect someone's power, as demonstrated by Vegito.Goku also brings the idea of bringing Gohan and Gotenks to defeat Buu hinting that Gohan is relevant to Goku and Buu. Goku getting a zenkai doesn't make sense because sayians need a near death experience
That is wrong. Super Buu was immortal inside his own body and could manipulate himself however he wanted. It’s evidently shown that Goku and co were weakened as Goku tried to blast a hole inside Buu, yet Super Buu was pierced by bullets. Not only that Daizenshuu explicitly states Vegito is the ONLY one who is not affected by size reduction, so Goku and Vegeta are still vulnerable to it.
To be fair he didn’t provide much evidence for the argument other than saying they were the size of fleas. But I hope what I said cleared things up for you.
This “flea size” argument is also just cope. Where’s this excuse when Piccolo literally grows in size in DB and Goku still beats his ass despite being “flea sized”? Wheres the excuse for vegito who literally turned into a small candy, legless and armless, and yet still beats an even stronger, potential unlocked buu?
Its all just nonsense lol. All of a sudden size matters when it’s convenient for the losing side. Goku gets trashed easily
@@LucidTUN3S not sure why you’re being so toxic. So your argument here is that piccolo grew larger and Goku remained the same and somehow Goku was supposed to be weaker?
And yes, Daizenshuu confirms that Vegito is the ONLY one who is not affected by size reduction, so guess what bud? Goku and Vegeta are still vulnerable to it. That’s why they suggest fusion. In this very same guide it’s confirmed that Goku and Vegeta only have access to .01% of their power within Super Buus body. And it’s evidently shown as Goku couldn’t blast a whole inside super Buu yet Super Buu was pierced by bullets. It’s like you ignored my whole argument that you replied to just to state some ignorance.
Goku gets trashed? Is that why Vegeta states Goku is the only one who can fight Kid Buu? Is that why Goku tells us Kid Buu would have killed everyone while Gohan is alive? Is that why Daizenshuu states Kid Buu is the strongest in the universe while Gohan exists? Is that why Super Exciting Guide states Gokus power became the best in the universe while fighting Kid Buu? Is that why El Manga Legendario states Goku is the ultimate Saiyan? Is that this same guide states the only way Kid Buu was to be defeated was the spirit bomb? Not Gohan.
Gohan gets trashed easily. Cope.
@@jarrettbrewer2892 Toxic in what way? And I’m sorry but the minute I see “The Daizenshuu” instead of the main source like the manga for evidence, I tune out. Please stop using that and read the manga. Its not credible and is certainly not gonna have anything over the main source itself for answers.
Your welcome bosss
Great video. Absolutely nothing suggests Gohan is “the strongest unfused fighter” in the Buu saga, the guides, manga, and anime itself all show Goku is stronger. The fandom deadass made up Gohan being stronger lmao. Again great video.
Waittttt u just reached 1k!
Ur almost at 1k alr 😂
Is stated by Goku he can't defeat Bootenks and that only Gohan could defeat Booccolo+ he literally just Breathes of Kid Boo being weaker than Super Boo. Heck is stated by Shin Kid Boo even from power isn't the Strongest but the most dangerous due to his personality.
And Genkidama is made from Spirit, Genki. The part of Ki that if from spiritual part. If you want more evidence is literally stated in the final fight Goku was trying to make greater the Genkidama cause he hasn't had enought energy to push It onto Kid Boo, in difference that when he did the same with Freezer.
Also Gohan is literally stated by Toriyama in an interview he is the strongest unfused fighter withing the Boo saga
This just shows that Toriyama seems to be very fickle and forgettable about his own work, since he stated that Gohan is the strongest unfused fighter, but also said that Goku is the strongest in DBZ. Even Oda knew more about DBZ in a quiz than Toriyama. I think he just underestimated how big DBZ would become and didn't care too much of a clean storytelling and world building.
@@JTK_XXL In reality only guides states Goku is the strongest. Not Toriyama, he consistently puts Gohan at top. What he said is that Goku personality is what let him to fight with ones of the Strongest characters in the universe
If it wasnt in the show then it aint true. Vegeta said that about goku because literally everyone is dead. The spirit bomb was strong enough to kill kid buu, goku just couldnt force it down because he was too tired. Any drunk mfer that thinks goku is stronger than mystic gohan during the buu saga i truly pray for you.
While inside Super Buu just before Vegeta tries to blast their way out, Boku says that him and Vegeta still don’t stand a chance against Buu. Buu was currently in the form that Gohan manhandled EASILY. That’s all the evidence you need.
What about the evidence of Toriyama saying that Goku is the strongest in DBZ? I would argue the creator's word has a higher priority than anything shown in the manga/anime. But then again, sometimes Toriyama forgets his own world building lol
Already debunked you. L argument.
I don't know about all that, but Vegeta is undefeated against Goku.
You should make a GT power scaling video