How Strong Is Super Saiyan

[@Grosvenor77]

I always figured grade 4 was still 50x base but just the most balanced and efficient. That training increased their bases significantly(also because they trained together instead of separately like vegeta and trunks did even when they went in together) and grade 2 is like a 1.5x ssj1 and grade 3 is like a 1.8-2x ssj1 and ssj2 is 2 x ssj1. But gohan also got a massive rage boost stacked ontop of that. Otherwise it wouldn’t make sense how cell was stronger and gohan only got twice as strong and dominated cell so much if he only doubled his power.

[@IamVybez]

Wouldn’t really make sense cause grade 2 issue is stamina so goku would’ve just fixed that form instead

[@supesisfodder7427]

No grade 4 > other grades

[@Pilaf0_1]

No, this is absolutely wrong. There are multiple guides putting grade 4 > 2 and 3, and there are some others that give some sort of context that indicates that grade 4 isn't just grade 1 with no stamina leak.

[@supesisfodder7427]

@@Pilaf0_1 thank you finally someone with a brain

[@huckleberryyyy]

Mr Perfect Tyrone !

[@TheTupMan]

Interesting take. But I also refuse to accept it. If grade 3 was 1000x base then trunks wouldn’t have even been scratched by any of cells attacks. And correct me if I’m wrong on this part, but I’m pretty sure the implication of the latter half of their fight is that trunks is too slow and ALSO still not powerful enough. And I’m not so sure I believe the 10x multiplier to begin with because that would imply that cell was weak enough to get severely damaged from the final flash, yet strong enough to go toe to toe with 10x that power and probably would’ve won that fight, because he was relative in strength to Trunks if not above him outright. And cell getting hit with the final flash isn’t comparable to Goku getting shot with the laser ring thingy in DBS because Goku had no idea that attack was coming. Cell knew an attack was coming, he just thought he would be fine. And by using your own logic to say that grade 4 is stronger than the other grades supports my thought process too, because it proves that cell was definitely stronger than trunks was here, cuz cell was stronger than Goku when they fought. Yet he still got severely damaged by the final flash.
Your math isn’t mathing. Or maybe this is just me trying to deny a bunch of stuff cuz it feels wrong to me. Maybe a bit of both. Idk. Entertaining video tho. You definitely did your research into the guides. But I feel like we put too much weight into them. They weren’t written by toriyama himself, so even if he gives it the “ok” it’s probably just him skimming through it and going along with it. He made all this off the top of his head, (that’s hyperbole) so I doubt he would read every detail about a guide that goes more in depth than he went when he first wrote it. And that assumption is based entirely on if he read any of it to begin with. Which we really don’t know. I’m not very good at keeping things short and sweet so hopefully this wasn’t too much for anyone to read (if anyone reads it haha) so I’m gonna try a TL;DR
I disagree with the vid, and the guides are probably not as much of a holy grail as most people think.

[@TheTupMan]

Dang that’s a lotta words

[@Andrea-dw1ps]

@@TheTupMan cell didn't have his guard fully up with vegeta's final flash, he was suppressed, cell was holding back.

[@gabojr1979]

vegeta wasnt using grade 3 if do remember right and it would not make any sense since like you said its a x1000 power base thats correct and with the trunks part the issue with trunks vs perfect cell was speed he could have done some serious damage but since he was very slow compared to cell. yeah he didnt do shit
And on the grade 4 being stronger than the other forms it is not the guides that he used i got no idea why they say such things they have stated that grade 4 has less stamina consumption than grade 1 and the user is not blinded by his rage
its just a "perfect ssj"

[@amogus1415]

You do realise the final flash is a power up right?

[@hadouradiance3566]

Final Flash in and of itself is much stronger than anything Grade 2 Vegeta can do, it's a power up in and of itself, so it makes sense Cell would've gotten hurt. Especially because Cell wasn't actually making any effort to defend himself and literally just face"tanked" it. He also immediately right after effortlessly uses much more power to match Grade 3 Trunks, then further on uses way way more power in his fight against Goku.

[@thegodofsaiyans535]

Very interesting video. I usually just ignore Grade 2, and use the 500× multiplier.

[@thequalitycrusader2086]

W vid. I'm watching this while eating thanksgiving🦃

[@per2ona467]

Oh hell you need more subs and views this is good

[@vincenzodaquino3866]

Perfect video 👍

[@louiswalusimbi8006]

I always saw it Grade 4 being above 1 and 2 by a wide margin and then being relative to Grade 3 in terms of strength

[@Jarikraider]

Toriyama trying to retcon saying it is a 10x increase instead of a 50x increase, IN THE SAME DAMN FIGHT HE USED KAIOKEN AS A 20x MULTIPLIER, is such a typical Toriyama take.

[@supesisfodder7427]

Never said that

[@733ism]

Grade 1 Super Saiyan 50x Base Form
Grade 2 Super Saiyan 100x Base Form; 2x Grade 1
Grade 3 Super Saiyan 1 000xBase Form; 10xGrade 2; 20xGrade 1
Grade 4 Super Saiyan 1 250xBase Form; 1.25xGrade 3; 25xGrade 1
Grade 5(Super Saiyan 2) 2 500xBase Form; 2xGrade 4; 50xGrade 1
Grade 6(Super Saiyan 6) 10 000xBase Form; 4xGrade 5; 200xGrade 1; 10xGrade 3

[@seanb3226]

Could Goku have always reached the Super Saiyan form, had the circumstances and his emotional response been extreme enough? Does a Saiyan need to reach a certain power level before the transformation becomes possible?

[@OurKindofEntertainment]

I remember growing up thinking the graded forms of Super Saiyan were like:
Grade 1: normal or base Super Saiyan
Grade 2/Ascended Saiyan: 1.25x Super Saiyan
Grade 3/Ultra Super Saiyan: 1.5x Super Saiyan
Grade 4/Full Power Super Saiyan: 1.75x Super Saiyan
Grade 5/Super Saiyan 2: 2x Super Saiyan
Of course, the power varied with the user. We know Gohan had rage boosts, Goku & Gohan's training to master Super Saiyan was much greater than Trunks & Vegeta. That's why their mastered SS forms were much higher in power than the regular SS forms of Vegeta & Trunks.

[@jpdicey789]

Here is a possibility...
Super Saiyan Grade 1 = 50× base
Super Saiyan Grade 2 = 100× base
Super Saiyan Grade 3 = 1,000× base
Super Saiyan Grade 4 = 50× new base (2,500× original base, original base absorbs the power of Super Saiyan form and gets natural 50× amp)
Super Saiyan 2 (Grade 5) = 100× new base
Super Saiyan 3 (Grade 6) = 400× new base

[@supesisfodder7427]

Gohan didn’t have a rage boost

[@anotherlegendarysaiyan4171]

super saiyan grade 2 will be the best always, it's power is simply super

[@dannyc4550]

Can I get some links to your stuff. Also reading through the comments makes me feel like majority of people just ignore the entire video.

[@___________0Z0X]

I know that what I’m about to say is head canon, but this is how I justify great 1 and grade 4 both being 50 times base.
Basically, each grade before 4 isn’t able to make use of the entire 50 times power up. So grade 1 is 50 times base but the user can only really control 40%-60% of the super saiyan transformation.
Does this make any sense to anyone else?

[@TheGhost0312]

The problem with that is the fight against full power freezer, when 20x Kaio-ken could cut it against 50% freezer.

[@___________0Z0X]

@@TheGhost0312 the only way to get around that is to just say that Goku also got a rage amp along with the transformation. Also a zenkai boost is within the realm of possibility.

[@Aryan_Aran]

@@___________0Z0X na very unlikely that he got a zenkai and the transformation in itself comes from rage so no

[@___________0Z0X]

@@Aryan_Aran why not? he got beat up pretty badly. And what I meant by the rage amp is that his rage increased his base power, along with the transformation.

[@Aryan_Aran]

@@___________0Z0X zenkai only happens when a Saiyan is rejuvenated enough like in the t.o.p. Goku got stronger many times as he was resting somewhat after every fight

[@SMOKEGOCRAZZY]

👍🏿

[@nomore6258]

Based on this… I’d say grade 4 is 5,000 fold from base. Just for the sake of rhyming with grade one.

[@Jaiwiqik]

hey cell

[@deadsagelife]

i always assumed vegeta and trunks were grade 4 at cell games

[@GoofyKamiDeez]

Nah, Maybe vegeta but it was never stated

[@___________0Z0X]

I think it’s likely possible, and that Goku and Gohan were just stronger than them base-to-base.

[@deadsagelife]

@@___________0Z0X that was always my head canon especially since goku actually trained with gohan

[@150Hello]

​@dr34dh34d Yeah, I also initially assumed that their Base was just higher, but then there's something that doesn't add up, which is that Goku and Gohan trained exclusively in Super Saiyan and not in their base forms. They even left the HBTC early, so it wouldn't make any sense for them to increase their Base forms that dramatically.

[@deadsagelife]

@@150Hello i mean if they didnt their ssj would just be weaker since grade 4 shares the same 50x multiplier as grade 1 with better control and less draw backs meaning if base to base vegeta was stronger than shouldnt his grade 2 draw out more power than goku is capable of since its a higher multiplier from base?

[@delmarcopeterson6354]

What up everyone

[@onyx6774]

So mastered ssj 1 is 1000 times multiplier, ssj2 is 1000 x 2 = 2000 and ssj3 would be 2000 x 4 = 8000....damn.
That is crazy

[@Terminator1732]

What we call ssj 2-3 i would say what that ist is prakticaly tip the scale of power and stamina more into power
Just burn more energie for power

[@feraligatriscool5509]

I see grade two as a 60-70 times multiple and grade 3 as a 80-90 multiple

[@Aryan_Aran]

So grade 4 is 100 times? And grade 5 is 200 times?

[@antoinepolnareff8970]

One thing, the ×10 to Supersaiyan 1 from third Grade is only to Strenght, with your speed being reduced several times from your Supersaiyan level of speed and your durability at best being increased 1,5 times the one of Second Grade. Making the actual Ki level even with the Boost of Second Grade on top of it at best a bit over 3 times Supersaiyan 1 Ki.
I don't know were you take that 1000 complete Ki when in the guide is refering it to be only a times 10 multiplier to Supersaiyan first Grade/fourth Grade strenght only.
Also fourth Grade is times 50, in the interview even Toriyama itself states it is times 50 but he draws it seeming like a times 10. With in posterior Guides and from interviews to himself stating is a ×50 for normal Supersaiyan multiplier

[@mrperfectcell5079]

ok for speed thats fine idc. But how is his durability lower???? you do know durability and ap correlate with one another in dbz 98% of the time right?

[@antoinepolnareff8970]

@@mrperfectcell5079 I stated Durability is at best 1.5 times Second Grade, not lower. Is stated only strenght is multiplied by 10 in the guide. This further confirmed when is stated in Daizenshuu 7 that Third Grade interchange Speed and Strenght stats+ Goku in Saiyan Saga separates Ki physical stats in Speed, strenght and Durability. Even Cell itself states Trunks is way superior in strenght than him to a point literally Cell states he would be in danger if he received a Trunks punch even with his regeneration but Cell can still damage Trunks with his attacks post regenerating from Vegeta Final Flash.
Even that the insane amount of Strenght increase still affects Durability but from manga is just at best if Second Grade Trunks could turn second grade

[@mrperfectcell5079]

@@antoinepolnareff8970 that's not what cell says. what cell actually says is that trunks is considerably stronger than him and i hope you realize cell damaging him could be a result of cell unsupressing himself (as cell was actually stronger than grade 3 trunks i made a video on how strong cell is) or it could be trunks getting weaker due to grade 3s massive energy drain

[@antoinepolnareff8970]

@@mrperfectcell5079 Cell was stronger in Ki, not nearly in strenght. And again yes, Cell says It would be dangerous to receive a hit but the problem being Trunks speed and insane waste of energy per hit. Cell never increases his power at all. Is simply that It only increases strenght stat, because as I literally stated with 3 sources(2 from the guides and 1 from Saiyan Saga) in Ki Strenght and Durability are separated stats and you can say the contrary, as even in fiction are an insane amount of examples about AP/strenght not being equal to Durability.
Even on Dragon Ball in Saiyan Saga Vegeta has equal speed and similar strenght to Kaioken times 2 Goku(16.000 Across the board) but an insanelly High Durability.
Even Butter stated being way faster than Jeice or Recoome even when all 3 have similar stats

[@mrperfectcell5079]

@@antoinepolnareff8970 ki is literally described as strength wtf? and cell is literally called the strongest and again no cell enevr said one hit would be a problem i just checked and you cant prove cell didnt increase his power

[@ShadowMokujin]

So inconsistent power lvls and numbers not being accounted

[@Lupo32]

Ssj is a 50x multiplayer

[@milessaxton]

G4 is literally just G1 with fewer drawbacks.
So I don’t know how people get into the thousands as far as multiplayers

[@Andrea-dw1ps]

you are wrong, the other grades CLEARLY improved the power from grade one, so WHY THE FUCK would grade 4 be the same boost as grade 1? AT THIS POINT WHY DIDN'T GOKU USE GRADE 2 OR 3 WITH HIS IMPROVED BASE? grade 2 clearly improved both speed and power.

[@gabojr1979]

I know right its usually the people that speak english that get this right i think its mostly because of the "guides" and random phrases that happen on the anime

[@vincenzodaquino3866]

​@@gabojr1979 Andrea Is right.

[@gabojr1979]

@@vincenzodaquino3866 man you can legit search what form is stronger on google and see HOW MANY WEBSITES say that its not seems that youamericans are always doing some weird shit man

[@vincenzodaquino3866]

@@gabojr1979 i am italian, Andrea Is right.

[@LoudYapper]

I personally belive that Grade 4 is as strong as Grade 3 in terms of a boost with the main difference is that is doesnt slow you down and it barely consumes any stamina.

[@Invisibleboy999]

Krillin states grade 4 goku was the strongest thing he ever saw and he was their when trunks went grade 3 plus goku fought wayyyyyy better against cell then trunks did and dont u dare give me the speed argument cause cell easily tanked punches for grade 3 with no dmg while goku was actually roughing cell up a bit

[@LoudYapper]

@@Invisibleboy999 you do realise that they increase ones base power right xd, so Goku and Gohan could have just been way stronger than Trunks and Vegeta, considering they spend more time training that them too

[@Invisibleboy999]

@@LoudYapper so if thats the case why not use grade 2 then? Outside of stamina problems their would have been no reason not to use grade 2 on top of the “stronger base” also it seems like yall in complete denial that grade 4 is a greater boost then grade 1 even tho in dbs manga it’s clearly shown that mastered ssb is far stronger then the normal unmastered ssb so is it that u reasonable to think grade 4 would just be a higher boost then grade 1 when theirs literal proof later on mastering forms grant a greater power boost?

[@Invisibleboy999]

@@LoudYapperalso now that i think about it their would be no point in ssj2 cause grade 2 is considered a 2x multiplier to grade 1 so if grade 4=grade 1 and ssj2 is also a 2x multiplier that means ssj2 and grade 2 are literally the same in terms of power the only difference ig would be stamina but by ur logic goku could have just tapped into grade 2 and obliterated cell so its obvious grade 4 a naturally stronger form then grade 2 i think its just common sense idk why yall dont get that stronger base form does not explain enough yall just tryna keep the linear “50x multiplier” like the multipliers just cant increase or something

[@LoudYapper]

@@Invisibleboy999 what I didn't say that, I said grade 4 is as strong as Grade 3, but without the stamina problem or speed penalty, where did I compare to grade 1 xd? Also thank you for reminding me Vegete was only in grade 2, so of course the difference between him and Goku would be astronomical even if their bases are the same

[@joshyjosh214]

Super saiyan 2 is actually a super duper saiyan

[@user-vw4vl6jl5y]

Well, then SS2 is 2.000x and stronger than base and SS3 8.000x base

[@TheGhost0312]

I like the video and agree that the grade 5 should be double the grade 4 and that grade 1 its not equal to grade 4 without drawbacks.
But I would change the multipliers taking into account the domination multiplier that most people accept, being those: 1.2x lightly dominate oponent, 1.5x greatly dominate and 2x tank opponents attacks.
So given these, we have;
Grade 1= 50x
Grade 2 = (Grade 1)x2 = 100x
This comes from the fact that grade 1 vegeta was not even equal to imperfect cell yet grade 2 was greatly dominating so from not even 1x to 1.5x so rougly 2x.
Grade 3 = (Grade 2)x2 = 200
So yeah this one is more difficult but my reasoning is that cell was tanking grade 2 trunks and even on his best moment grade 3 wasn't that much better than perfect cell and it can't be all that much higher multiplier, given the final flash actually hurt cell and we know super attacks can amp power but not by that much either, so yeah x2 it is.
Grade 4 = (Grade 3)x3 = 600x
This one is also hard, okay first grade 4 Goku was clearly stronger than Trunks and Vegeta at their best, as they were impressed with just the 50% when he showed his power to Karin. But since he have different base power to trunks and vegeta its hard to say how grade 3 goku would have fare aginst that cell. (Still I'll add some notes at the end or in another coment to explain why I don't think their bases were that much different.)
But still we saw that 100% goku fight a serious cell that used more power than when he was playing with trunks and kinda stealmate him to a point. Originally I put it as 1.5x grade 3 but now considering how impresed vegeta and trunks were of 50% and how he fared agains cell I'll have to amp it to a 3x and still trying to be conservative.
Grade 5 = (Grade 4)x2 = 1200x
Yeah this one's easy, so in conclusion my final number ended somewhat lower that in the video but still a big one.
If we define grade one as the unity so it's easier to see the growth, it looks like this;
Grade 1 - 1
Grade 2 - 2
Grade 3 - 4
Grade 4 - 12
Grade 5 - 24

[@TheGhost0312]

Okay now some extra notes.
*First, I don't think the base powers of Vegeta and Trunks are so different to Goku (Gohan is stronger tho as shown in his fight with cell before going grade 5).
Goku and Gohan came out early from the time chamber and still were stronger than Vegeta and Trunks, and even after these last two entered a second time they were still weaker. So if only the base power aumented it wouldn't have made sense that they wouldn't catch up with another full year of training, which bring me to my second point.
*Grade 4 is stronger than just grade 1 without drawbacks.
Okay so first thing first, plot wise it was stated that just training wasn't going to cut it. Goku and Vegeta set themselves to take the super saiyan to the next level so thats why each of them tried to reach the next evolution their own way. And also why why Goku didn't want to train a second time in the chamber, base power couldn't get that much bigger at least at that point. (I know that base power eventually gets a lot higher again in other sagas and super).
Other thing to have in consideration is that if grade 4 were just as strong as grade 1 without drawbacks, using grade 2 for example when goku was fighting cell would have made sense given they were somewhat equal at that point.
*Also I notice that in the scale I did every grade but 3 was a 2x the grade before, so maybe it could be change so every grade is 2x the one before so its cleaner.
But as I pointed in my original coment I thing grade 3 has to be a little stronger. A explanation for this could be that grade 2, 4 and 5 are more or less balanced transformations and grade 3 is very inbalanced sacrificing other traits for pure power.
*I know it was a lot of text but I just wanted to order my thoughts and if someone else's finds this useful or entertaining thats a plus. So yeah this is pretty much my reasoning of the multiplier of the grades.

[@TheGhost0312]

An extra note XD
I've seen some coments saying that grade 1 doesn't use the full 50x from super saiyan and it only comes out at grade 4, but that doesn't make sense taking into account the first apparition of the transformation and coincidentally the last saga we had official power levels.
So goku with 20x kaio ken surprised and damaged 50% Frieza but 50x super saiyan beats confidently 100% Frieza.
So
Base Goku - 3 000 000
20x kaio ken - 60 000 000
50% Frieza - 60 000 000
100% Frieza - 120 000 000
50x Super Saiyan - 150 000 000
SS goku is 1.25x 100% Frieza so acording to the domination multipliers thats enough to slightly dominate the fight which is what we saw. So that pretty much confirms that grade 1 has to be 50x, otherwise it wouldn't have been enough to beat Frieza.

[@youtubestudiosucks978]

Wasnt it a 50 × multiplier of base?

[@mrperfectcell5079]

Grade 1 is 50x base but the other grades have a higher boost

[@gabojr1979]

yes its x50 the perfect ssj doesnt increase that it just less angry user and less stamina consumed

[@mrperfectcell5079]

@@gabojr1979 crazy how I explained how both of those things affect power and how the form is indeed stronger

[@gabojr1979]

@@mrperfectcell5079 sir its like ssj blue fullpower man and they dont get mad like ssj on first grade

[@mrperfectcell5079]

@@gabojr1979 ok just ignore everything I said in the video rhen

[@AtarusArchive]

Terraria > Delta rune

[@penksglid7475]

Ngl I'm kinda confused to why u commented this but ur not wrong lmao

[@Irrational_Pie]

Power scaling in Dragon Ball is futile and meaningless because Toriyama never placed importance on creating such an internally consistent world. He forgot things and made errors all the time, and it’s really evident when people really go into the details. Just enjoy it for what it is.