LDS Church Copywriter Speaks Out - Linda and Savannah Clyde Pt. 2 - Mormon Stories 1450
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- Join us today as we continue with part two of our interview with an awesome mother and daughter duo, Linda and Savannah Clyde. Growing up in a mixed-faith Mormon home, Linda worked through the resentment she felt towards her father’s lack of belief in the church with beautiful results. Linda’s talents as a writer eventually landed her a job at LDS church headquarters in the marketing department where she was instrumental in assisting the church soften it’s tone and messaging. Hearing her talk about the inner workings of the church is fascinating stuff to say the least! Once an extremely faithful teenager, Linda’s daughter Savannah’s curious spirit led her to dig deeper into the narrative of the church and become a new kind of pioneer for her Mormon family.
Listen along as they describe their journey to understanding one another, their non-Mormon loved ones, and the beauty that can come from embracing non-conformity as a family in Utah county.
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Timecodes:
00:00:00 Taking a writing test for the church to interview for employment and helping change church culture
11:00 Having a birds eye view of church messaging and Face to Face events for the youth
17:00 The Q15 on social media and the youth leaving the church
27:00 Linda’s responsibilities as a copy writer for the church
41:00 Filming a video for the church and the correlation committee taking it down
44:00 Writing a script for the sisters on temple square, discovered the old temple ceremony
48:00 Deseret Ranch, baseball baptisms, seeing the inner working of the business part of the church
1:05:00 The businesses that make money for the church
1:08:00 Linda working on talks with high profile church leaders
1:16:00 Working with Roots Tech, Family Search and the genealogy arm of the church
1:20:00 The ego of the 70s, sexism, irony being a working mom in the church
1:29:00 Finally recognizing some of the harmful ideas that hurt her daughter she was forwarding
1:38:00 The change to the proper church name instead of “Mormon”
1:44:00 Church employees not able to speak their mind
1:49:00 Savannah begins studying the church more in depth and gets ostracized
2:11:00 Linda sees Savannah struggle in the church
2:29:00 Linda’s husband’s faith alining with her’s and avoiding the common post-Mormon problems
2:33:00 Leaving the blueprint of Mormonism to build something authentic
2:38:00 Reconciling with Linda’s exMormon parents
2:45:00 Savannah’s talk with two institute teachers at school about women’s issues
2:54:00 Savannah’s tattoo and it’s meaning
2:58:00 TikTok and Linda’s message on her channel
3:20:00 John’s TikTok challenge for people to speak up
3:31:00 Savannah’s final thoughts for the struggling Mormon teens
#LDS #Mormon #MixedFaithFamily #ExMormon #Post Mormon #Religion #Spirituality
I am a woman of color. In 2019 I moved to the city of Provo, seeking to find peace of mind. The culture I found in that area was very prescriptive. On one of my first very few meetings at the local LDS chapel, the Sunday School interrogated me to know if I had suffered under racism in Utah in my past experience. After I answered “yes”, they stopped talking to me as a group at all. These people are not global.They are just trying to find Blacks who are not aware of the hateful racism that has harmed so many before they changed their policies. The Church is not taking responsibility for those who were traumatized by the hate before.
IMHO -,tokenism
@@kathyclark8274 Brutality disguised as piety
Amravin - I’m so so sorry. Where are you living now if you can share.
@@mormonstories I am in a very complicated situation, because when I arrived to Provo, I signed a refugee resettlement contract with a delinquent non profit organization that is funded through federal grants under the protection of the State of Utah Contractors. The agency is used by the Mormons to coerce Blacks into baptism for federal services that otherwise are not depending on your religion. Short after I signed up the contract, the agency director, and only paid employee, kept forcing me to see a local bishop to obtain the services that are inherent to the contract I signed. When I went to see the bishop, he demanded that I should first get baptized in the LDS religion, to then obtain the federal benefits. That process is very much against federal law. In other words, they use the argument of refugee resettlement to put the refugees under pressure to get baptized.. And they use Federal Money to practice their Cartel Activity. They go under the radar while sucking on the Feds. This has been practice in the State of Utah since a long time. They lied to the Feds when they said they were not practicing polygamy and incest, remember? And they were sent to jail for that. Then they lied about not doing it again and they hide behind the FLDS. But, they don’t reveal that their members bounce freely from LDS to FLDS according to conveniences. At the moment I am working on a tort to go to the state of Utah in hopes to restore my civil rights as a legal refugee to the United States. What they are doing, coercing Africans and other refugees to baptize for the services, is a delinquent activity. For this reason, I cannot tell you on this line where I am now. But, not all things are full of crap in Utah. I went to the office of Governor Cox with the whole paperwork and they came to the conclusion that I have to sue the state. I realize that two Utah AG‘s have been in and out of jail. This is a very rotten culture. When I visited Pennsylvania, I saw lots of Africans who had arrived first to Utah as refugees. They ran for their sanity for the same reasons explained above. Here is something else: On the day I met the Provo Bishop to ask for my refugee services, and he refused to provide them, unless I would get baptized, he revealed me another horror story that I should not have experienced in that situation. He told me, that the son of the Stake President was suffering from a [genetic dysfunction] after which all his inner organs were already fallen and his leg had been amputated. I had to get out of there to seek therapy through a Counselor who offered me pro bono support thanks to an international organization that knows my case. What the heck did I have to do with the stories of genetic dysfunctions in Mormons from Provo? The Bishop took care of sending me an email in which he asked me to not reveal that he had volunteered that CONFIDENTIAL information to me in his office. Of course I went to the Feds with it. I am not here to handle that type of information. I am already in protected status as a refugee. I did not need to know what problems the Mormons have today, because their ancestors have been copulating with their own family members at the inspiration of their freaked out leaders. It is all horrible. Horrible!
@@amravindeschur1463 sounds like someone is trying to take advantage of the church by bringing you to Utah for their fee and knowing that the church will set you up if you get baptized. My dad worked at the slc temple for many years before he died and told me stories about Mexicans and other south American folks coming up and joining the church to take advantage of the store houses. He said they just let them have whatever they needed. I hope things work out for you and I'm glad you didn't get trapped in mormonism.
Savannah, I'm in southern Colorado and I know the missionary friend you lost. My heart sank when I heard about the car crash on his mission. I watched him grow up. I'm so sorry you are going through that pain and loss too. I was close with his family when I was mormon. Now I'm the dangerous apostate heathen to most of my old ward and stake, and apparently my leaders were instructed by the first presidency not to have any contact with me, but that family never stopped being kind anyway. And my love for them and grief for their loss is still there and always will be. Anyway, I didn't realize our stories have a common connection, and couldn't help but reach out and send you love. It broke my heart when he died. Take good care, and know that a fellow heathen from your old area has the biggest, warmest hug for you across the internet.
Honestly - why does it feel like the upcoming generations are so much more wise and intuitive than my generation? Very impressed not only with Vanna, but with so many other young people who have figure it all out on their own. Bravo!
The Internet allows you to make choices. You choose to remain ignorant, or you look into history and make informed decisions on who and what you worship.
The Internet. Hands down.
The internet reeked havoc on religion. Members of all religions over the last 20 years are leaving in droves. This is happens when a new generation has access to information at their fingertips. I lies unravel.
Older generations tended to suffer in silence believing they were the only ones who felt the way they did. As others have stated the internet allowed the coming together of people who shared ideas, who would have never met in real life. Ordain women was huge for me. I had been told by bishops since I was in primary that no one else, not a single other woman felt the role the church laid out for them wasn't enough, or that the boys weren't given better treatment. Knowing I wasn't alone was the strength I needed.
The internet is a magnifying glass. It makes you wiser but can also make you more vain and/or stupid
I am in a faith crisis and I decided to pray and prepare my heart to hear and absorb everything from our stake conference that was going to happen next Sunday. So I did all that, went to the stake conference, and the whole meeting they only talked about te history of that stake and how much they have grown and how blessed we are to be the chosen one. Nothing about Christ, nothing about becoming someone better, nothing what I had prayed for as an answer. Plus they also announced we were moving chapels, we are moving to the new corporate building owned by the church located in slc state street. As like that was a huge success and preparation for the future.
My husband left that meeting excited with the changes, I left that meeting almost sick to my stomach.
@JulianaKlein how are your doing now? A year later, I just wanted to check.❤
Wow, the post-mo community will do well peopling itself as it does with folks like these guests. Linda and Savannah exhibit such genuine honesty, perception, humility, intelligence, patience, kindness...in fine Christlike qualities. It's a treat to hear them.
Agreed! I see in a lot of these episodes the people are being very genuine, and truthful. More so than most general authorities. I can relate as I have experienced the same thing that these people are sharing, and it's like a fresh breath of air knowing I am not the only one feeling this way, and that I am not crazy!
I used to interpret for the church on their Spanish team, including for general conferences. Saw a lot of things at that time that kind of shook me. At one point, they stopped calling me and when I reached out to ask the supervisor what had happened and if I could continue offering my services, his response was “you have a degree, Move On.“ Shook me to my core. I’d spent a lot of time working hard in this position and was dismissed with a heartless, “move on.” I received nothing but distain from this person after giving him many years of service and sacrifice on my part. I Was so distraught by the treatment I received, that I wrote a letter to the first presidency explaining that I was surprised the church would allow someone to represent them in that way. I came to find out later that this sort of treatment was pretty common. Very disappointing.
EDIT: changed talk to text errors.
No surprise there, only nice when they need something.
We need an episode with your story 😳
Yeah sounds right. I feel you man, and I'm sorry you went through that. I've had similar treatment and it really does shake you. And the Apostles don't care one bit
So amazed at the intelligence and maturity of this young girl! She will do great things! To hear about the journey these two women have taken is inspiring! Great podcast!
She was talking about how she felt put off because she was a working mom, I can relate to that, but from the reverse side as a stay-at-home dad. For the most part, no one even talks to me at church at this point and when someone does it's always about my getting a job so my wife can stay home instead. And I don't even live in Utah, so the Mormon culture isn't nearly as strong here.
This episode is absolutely fascinating. Thanks to Linda and Savannah for coming on the podcast. I am so curious about Linda's parents. What is it that finally "broke the shelf" for her mom? I would love to hear her dad's mormon story.
Very nice to see healthy love and respect between a mother and daughter. Cheers to you both.
I think one thing that we should all keep in mind is that people who are suffering from doubts (or are even well beyond just doubting, like myself) are often in very different places in life, and therefore the collateral damage from choosing to leave is MUCH different in magnitude. For example, imagine if your were a Mormon bishop with 5 kids from the ages of 2-10 and had a wife who was extremely orthodox (along with your extended family and hers). Now compare that person’s situation to, say, an 18 year-old with no kids, no spouse, no established career in the community, etc., etc. There’s just no comparison in the level of difficulty. I feel bad for those in the former situation. Life must be hell. So glad I saw it when I did.
So true. Like the divorced professor from one of the BYU schools I almost dated. Interestingly enough, when I said, “you teach where, oh crap, I’m exmormon.” He said “That’s okay, I get along better with exMo’s anyway.” I said, “well so do I, but I’ll try not to judge.” Haha. He ended out backing out of the date after a few hours of video chat the night before. I was disappointed, but how could I not acknowledge the tightrope he was walking. I don’t know what he is or isn’t going through but I felt it would have been a huge risk to let his guard down and further the connection in person. 💔 His options are seemingly nonexistent with his employment and wanting to live near his kids.
@@natalies4375 I can’t even imagine what it would be like to be a divorced BYU prof?!? He must feel like a leper. Poor chap. MY BIL has a PhD from Michigan and is a serious scholar AND a pretty active (though progressive) Mormon. When BYU offered him a job and he didn’t take it he told me, “I wanted to be a scholar not a testimony camp counselor.” I thought that was pretty funny.
As a former convert, I'd say your statement "... are often in very different places in life, and therefore the collateral damage from choosing to leave is MUCH different in magnitude" also very much applies to the collateral damage many converts experience BY JOINING the LDS church in the first place (damage to family, friends, relationships, careers). Many of the born in the covenant lifelong members don't realize that the type of collateral damage suffered when they leave the church is very similar to the collateral damage many of us converts created in our circles by joining the church.
@@Dave-zx2im damaging to individuals and families in so many different ways indeed.
@@Dave-zx2im Thanks for sharing that, Dave. You share an important insight. Do intelligent people like yourself even join the church these days…I mean with such easy access to the accurate history, etc. via the internet? Apart from joining to appease, say, a born-in-the-covenant fiancé, it’s truly hard for me to imagine it today.
FYI: Deseret Industries is also located in California. One of the reasons why it is so profitable is it is not required to pay its employees minimum wage. I have a friend who was handicapped, who worked there, supposedly to "rehabilitate" him. He didn't reed rehabilitating. He went from that job to become a cashier and Asst. manager at a K-Mart. He has a 160+ IQ and was accepted at Stanford. He was working himself through high school at D.I. He deserved at least minimum wage.
Strange how Linda remembers some of the changes starting with the 1990 Endowment. Like the wife no longer covenanting to obey "the law of her husband", but she wasn't aware that the penalties were also removed in that same set of changes.
I am outraged that the church had to prepare a "script" for the Temple Square missionaries. They are sent into the field with the Spirit of God, and bear the same authority of the Seventy that Jesus sent out -- even the women. My daughter was a Temple Square missionary. I met her on Temple Square while she was on her mission. Believe me, she taught with power and authority. The missionaries should be taught by the Spirit, or by their mission leaders, not the corporation.
However, I am glad that Linda got to write the script and to write some of the dedicatory prayers. Women can do this.
Nevermo. When she said DI is profit making sent off major red flags. This is just business making itself as charitable. What you wrote doesn't surprise me. It's taking advantage of people and church status to make money. Sick.
I’m so glad I got out when I did
Loved the video and everything said! But am I the only one wanting Linda’s skincare routine? 😂
The brethren want her skin routine as well.
Hmm
I’m with you Lillian! 😂
The Deseret Ranch story was sad! Consider also the hundreds of church members that sold their homes/farms and moved to Jackson County Missouri with the promises that it would be the land of their inheritance for generations to come and the place of the New Jerusalem, only to be run out of town, on multiple occasions!
I always looked at the land of your inheritance as referencing to the generations to come not them personally. I always try to seek understanding through God and his teachings not to my own understanding. My dad told me when I was a child that when the temple was built by the pioneers that they had to drill holes in the certain things and they didn’t understand why or how come they were doing it but later ended up finding out it was to run the electricity and piping and stuff of that nature into the building point being is that just because you can’t see the use of something now or the point doesn’t mean that God does not have a plan.
@@payaj2815 A lot of people have miss-understood the scriptures. Please read section 101 carefully. Read the heading. This promise was to THEM, not us. Sections 103 and 105 also add important details to the debacle.
People think the D&C is for our day. It isn’t. Sure, there are lessons to be learned, but the instructions were for them. Believers try to salvage these promises by believing that they will be fulfilled some day, but the promises have expired. Read carefully.
@@dollsandlace
That is the canned answer everyone gives to this issue but it does not address the promises made and is super insensitive to the profound sacrifices these members in Missouri made!!! Read the sections I mentioned carefully, especially 103:11-17.
Being chastised or subject persecution due to lack of faithfulness is not the same as losing out on the promises.
Besides, section 97, ( 4 months earlier) had the Lord expressing his pleasure with the Saints. What changed in 4 months?
This is simply Joseph blaming the Saints when things HE promised did not materialize! He was clearly not speaking for the Lord!!!!!
Hyrum Smith estimated that between 300-400 members of the Missouri Saints died from exposure. For what, not embracing the law of consecration?
Other “sins” mentioned, pale in comparison to what is going on with members around the word today, and with Joseph for that matter. This was around the time he was in a relationship with Fanny Alger😂
Furthermore, Joseph wasn’t even around in Missouri to help them live whatever law you are implying they failed.
What proof do you have that the Saints squandered the land of their inheritance besides Joseph blaming them?
Can't believe this is a mom and daughter.. they look like sisters!
Well, LDS encourages marriage as soon as legal, so 18 year old moms happen, and a 30 year old could already have 6+ children. Meantime, the men are to work as much as possible to support their big families, and the church gets 10% off the top.
I didn't meet grandparents in their 30's until I came to Utah, and realized this was a thing.
@@maam-yj8ph that's wild! But I guess the math works..
RIGHT
I thought they were sisters too. Linda is in her early 40s and I thought maybe 28. Beautiful mother and daughter.
A very insightful interview, one of the best in a long line of truth revealing interviews. I was struck by the comments concerning Rusty Nelson's imposed PR changes and how they did not seem very revelatory or prophetic to many. Would someone please share with me what ANY so called prophet has said in the history of this organization that could not have been said by any mortal human being.
I really loved this episode. Your guests really touched me and were relatable. Two wonderful human beings who have matured in their transition journey. I wish them all the best and am seriously considering setting up a Tik Tok account ☺️. All the best to everyone making the effort to keep this podcast going. It has helped me tremendously. Been a long time viewer.
Perfect example of hiring design professionals to rearrange the deck chairs after you hit the ice berg.
When you hit a metaphorical ice berg. You have to ASK A QUESTION, right? Or you run the chance of repeating history. (So many revelations in the early days of the restoration came simply by asking a question).
In the Ask- Seek-Knock process (gospel context) of learning and solving problems the “Ask” step is a guiding key through the “Seek” step. Very, very often gathering info in the seek step requires one to go back to step #1 and apply there what you learned in step #2, that is fine tuning the original guiding key question.
Remember, that Einstein loved to quote the GMC executive Charles F. Kettering’s famous words, “A problem well stated is a problem HALF-SOLVED.” So, as we venture into step #2 we are likely to return to refining step #1 (numerous times depending on the complexites found in #2. You are doing what Kettering said, “well stating the problem” (even refining it so you can truly move forward).
Sometimes, there is little or no complexity such as in Joseph Smith’s first prayer because he lacked wisdom and there was no other source to seek from…and he had done all the seeking he believed he could do for the question at hand.
Before we go to 3rd step pause and ask yourself what’s the difference between steps 1 and 3?
Wait.
Wait.
Think before you look and read!
Answer: God wants all to search it out and ponder for ourselves FIRST before we Knock. When we can finally take it to Him after our honest, best effort seeking and have reached a point of real intent then, if it is right based on God’s opinion…”it shall be opened unto you” at that time or in the future.
The leaders of the Church are gathering information in the Seek step. I’m sure they have been through a lot of refining of the original step. They are trying to see this high tech world through the eyes of youth who are living their lives in this different social, brand based, and technological world. There is a major tech gap and it is evolving at a pace like never before. Who can truly keep up?How does an old timer most especially keep up? When he/she tries, it may not sound as sincere because of a poor attempt at first effort.
The new tech requires skills the young have while the old tech is the older folks weakness. But new tech doesn’t supply the foresight and wisdom the earlier generations have developed over years- -their strength.
The critics have much to work with as they find human fault. And that could be their fatal fault. A flaw of oversight in the younger generation is the classic “when they are learned ( tech savvy skilled), they think that they are WISE and hearken not…”
Our Church leaders are human with all the frailties of anyone that has ever lived. Their mis-judgements in this brave new world won’t last for long.
Without their wisdom and experience a lot of long lasting mistakes can happen to those with false overconfidence or lack of humility. Being patient or not being patient to wait on the Lord through his servants either way… one will still learn… by the sad, difficult way or the way of safety and peace.
Many youth and the “not so old yet” need to reconnect with their parents and grandparents. There is much to learn from them and their ways. Look up in Google these words: “the past is a foreign country”. Research it’s best and wisest meanings. Then reconnect with a wise old person. Help yourself!
@@jonathanhill2948 veriliy it came to pass that I'll have some of what you have been smoking. Thus saith the lord.
Wow that Savannah is so eloquent! What a brilliant light in this world! Thank you for being you and shining bright!
OMG I love that the ad at the beginning of this video is Marie Osmond talking about NutriSystem.
I appreciate that Linda and Savannah articulated their experiences in a respectful, non-judgmental way. It's clear that they're authentically trying to connect with people. For members and non-members alike, there's something to be learned from their experiences. Even as an active member of the church (thankfully living outside of one of the modern-day Mormon metropolises), I found their experiences quite interesting to consider. Thanks for sharing!
1:42:45 yes so many members are leaving in droves because of what Nelson has come in and done with his personal pet peeves, in changing the brand of the church and the identity and the approach. It definitely feels to many of us that it’s just a corporation and no longer a religion. This is one of the catalysts that led me, and many others I am sure m, down the rabbit hole of church history and realizing how we’ve been duped and lied to for decades - The church is losing full active families regularly and they have a huge problem on their hands.
The church is nothing more than a CEO (Nelson) with an executive board of vice presidents (Apostles). It’s a corporation nothing more
I used to defend that a church this large has to run parts of it as a business to meet the needs of the members. Then I realized the church has billions while requiring poor families to pay to serve volunteer missions and sacrifice all they have to travel to a temple to be sealed. I'm so glad my "veil" was lifted.
early on this convert recognized the 'corporate' aspect of the church and didn't think about it too much because it didn't affect my faith in the original prophet/teacher. at some point, I did some research about church holdings and realized the portfolio included tracks of land and established farms and/or fruit orchards. still, it made sense that this would be part of the plan to acquire power and wealth as organized religions do. still would be better if there was transparency about this and more equitable treatment of members in lower classes who struggle financially to maintain a middle class/working class lifestyle. sacrifices to serve could bear an unreasonable cost.
What exactly do you expect from a church? Do you believe there is a difference between Jesus Christ and his teachings and His Church organization's responsibilities? What do you believe you should get from a Church as far as your own personal relationship with Jesus Christ? I'm wondering what people expect. Reading the comments online sounds more like the fallibility of humans and their own mistakes and I'm confused about what the complaints really are about? Thank you to anyone who will help with this question.
I saw the business mentality personally as I was AP on my mission, the general authorities coming to visit, when my first mission president became a general authority. It's all a competition to prove who is the better leader / businessman. My first mission president worked us to the ground, 120 hr weeks, no days off, basically running a sweat shop. He was praised for it, and got quote unquote promoted. Always seemed strange to me.
I served my mission in a big city with multiple missions. Four mission presidents lived in the same (rich) neighborhood (three even in the same upscale apartment complex), and were always comparing their mission numbers etc. (A rather childish/juvenile competition.) It was clear that they all wanted to be noticed by the area presidency and SLC headquarters, in order to climb the corporate ladder. (And eventually become general authorities etc.)
To add to the above comment by Tyler Bigler, my mission president gave no leeway to tracting in the cold. I served in Winnipeg, Canada and froze my ass off for 2 years. His quote for inspiration was : "If the postal service can work in this, so can you."
Fascinating: this is just absolutely fascinating. I, too, spent a few years working for the CoJCoLDS (pronounced "Codge Colds", because linguist and aiming for minimalistic syllabicity,) and just found a point where I has to bow out and pursue other interests.
This is worth a listen.
The worst face to face that I ever saw was one that Elder cook did on polygamy and the history of the church. They only picked easy questions, and didn’t face any tough questions. It was so scripted and fake.
These leaders claim to be revelators, but seem to always be behind the curve.
This one made me sick to my stomach. The deception was so obvious to me. Revealing “the new church history” revealed in Saints. They laughed at the polygamy being difficult, wtf. The whole thing was so yuck. I tried asking my dad to watch when he was trying to understand what I was going through. He’s a smart man and I hoped he would see it. He didn’t, he thought it was a great devotional. 😏
I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed these episodes. They were fantastic. Thanks for all the hard work.
1:26:15 to 1:28 - This old blood Mormonism is how my own family treated me when I finally divorced my emotionally abusive ex after 18 years, “they just didn’t know what to do with me, they felt uncomfortable around me.” (Ironic part for me was the accepting way I was treated by stake leaders at the time as I served in my stake YW calling.) Sadly, later, lower level shaming and a change of stake leadership, left me so alone and buying into the feelings of unworthiness. And as a Phoenix rises, so did I. It took rock bottom for me to unravel enough to be willing to question and then rebuild myself. No way I would have ever let myself question otherwise.
Thank you for sharing your experiences as a writer! Its so frustrating to spend your life thinking these talks and prayers are so divinely inspired, and then to find out they're merely scripted talks and prayers of "vain repetition".
I had many questions answered in the temple. Things I would not have thought. But the last time I tried to go, I sat outside, and a voice said to me, “you do NOT BELONG HERE. This is NOT my home and I have never been here!” I was so freaked out. But, I am happier now being with Jesus and being in a healthy relationship with Him.
Girl that voice is YOU. That relationship is with YOU. Glad you are having a healthier relationship with yourself.
Such an enjoyable and authentic interview. These women are so refreshing to listen to.
One of my friends worked for the Church and when he was called in to be “laid off”, his supervisor told him he felt inspired to tell him [my friend] that he was destined for better things. Seriously. Guy claimed revelation to fire someone. Even worse, the reason he was most likely fired was because he had a disability. My friend was such a committed member, he just accepted it.
Knowledge is NOT power. Knowledge is POTENTIAL power. You can know something and not act on it, which makes you still powerless.
When I was TBM, I loved the Book of Mormon. I've read it somewhere around 25 times. One of the things that always bugged me is not the fact that the Sermon on the Mount is in 3 Nephi, it's the fact that the version given mirrors the version in the KJV, not the JST. I would suppose that the BoM would contain the more inspired version, not the version subjected to mistranslation. The apologetics I've read for that issue were always... less than satisfying.
Also, isn't it interesting that the church stresses the importance of family history work, yet RootsTech and Family Search feel strapped for cash? Considering how vast the church's wealth is, it seems that they would want to prioritize an issue of such vital importance (that it will consume much of our time during the Millennial Reign). But where the money goes reveals the priorities.
@@harmagician1 Actually, I assumed that both the BoM and the JST were true. Both were divinely inspired translations of ancient records, revealed through God's true prophet, Joseph Smith Jr. I also assumed that the JST version was more true than the KJV rendering of the Sermon on the Mount. And a final relevant assumption was that the Book of Mormon was the most correct book. Thus, it always bothered me that the JST version and the BoM version of the Sermon on the Mount did not resemble each other. If both translations were correct, more correct than the "original" KJV rendering, then the BoM and JST versions should be more closely related than the KJV and BoM versions. This is not so.
What you seem to have falsely concluded about me is that this in any way contributed to my faith crisis. It did not. At all. It was always a shelf item. It bothered me, but I was willing to allow for some messiness in translation or some future "sealed portion" revelation to clarify the issue. Frankly, all that mattered to me is whether I could consider the church today to be good.
The answer to that question did, in fact, spur on a faith crisis.
How about the prophecies after the fact ? Nobody seemed to be interested in that ? 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
@@franciscoroxas3679 Mormonism is rife with such examples, to be sure. But it would be disingenuous to not point out that the "Civil War Prophecy" in the Doctrine and Covenants gets a lot of details right, such as the war starting in South Carolina. It does err in the larger predictions, such as the war consuming all nations, but it is one of the better prophecies out there in terms of its timing (made before the events described) and accuracy (it actually gets certain details right).
That the Book of Mormon only really has accurate prophecies about America up to the time of the book's publication is a bit reminiscent of how the Book of Daniel has amazingly accurate prophecies up to the point that it appears the document which serves as the basis of the version we have today was written. That doesn't disprove the BoM anymore than it disproves Daniel, but...
That was always my problem, couldn't understand how a book that was apparently put together, 1k or 2k years before the kjv Bible is word for word, it went from Aramaic to Greek to English and the translation of I guess Hebrew they were speaking in the BOM, both of those came out identical? With the grammar in the right place too. Anyone who sees that and is not troubled, is being so intellectually dishonest with themselves.
50:47, LDS missionaries recruiting young boys in England to baptize them to be part of a baseball team in order to increase the number of baptisms? Wow! That is not surprising!
Somewhere in South America, missionaries rented busses to pick up massive amount of poor people from their neighborhood to take them to church to watch a video about the so called first vision. Then, these people were persuaded to be baptized immediately after teaching them a couple of discussions. This type of actions were happening for at least 4 years and it did increase the number of members in the LDS church. The interesting thing was that many, many of those new members did not stay in the church.
Same thing happened in Germany. The missionaries ended up only baptizing African refugees. The refugees quickly found out that the history of the LDS Church contains all that miasma of inbreeding doctrines, and the polygyny and the racist hatred preached by the prophets… so they leave. The churches in many areas of the European Union are functioning inside small apartment buildings. There is no reliable attendance coming from European persons in those countries, because the Europeans know where these poor kids a.k.a., “LDS Missionaries” are coming from.
Rusty should feel ashamed. But he won’t.
And more than likely NEVER got the proper informed consent about the church.
“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they?”
But the “fruits” are deceptively hidden to the public, unless… you listen to Mormon Stories.
Thank you 🙏🏼 for what you’re doing and exposing the bad fruit.
I only got through half of the interview (because time and my ever shifting focus is a thing) but what I did hear was fascinating. Never heard about the baseball/soccer/cheeseburger baptisms til today. But I can relate to the pressure that’s put on the full-time missionaries (not by serving directly in that role but) because I was Ward Mission Leader in two different Wards.
"Fruits", mean actions. "By their fruits ye shall know them". Anyone can say pretty words, or deceptive words. It's what a person does that matters.
Is this what you meant?
A persons actions can be hidden for a time, but not for long. Usually actions are very obvious for all the world to see!
@@tamaraelsberry6630 yes, the action of hiding the truth is what I was referring to.
@@found-in-him hiding the truth isn't an action. The definition of hiding the truth is "deception".
Fruits are the things people "do".
You can't "do" hiding the truth.
Just go ahead and say Mormons are deceptive if that pleases you. But "fruits" are actions people take, things that people "do".
@@tamaraelsberry6630 The last time I checked, "hide" is still a verb. Verbs are words used to describe an action. Not sure why the petty argument about what's an action or not, but okay.
@@found-in-him lol, read the definition of hide:
"put or keep out of sight; conceal from the view or notice of others.
"he hid the money in the house"
What you're talking about with mormons is people disguising their shortcomings, "hiding" their faults. That would involve pretence, subterfuge and dishonesty.
I don't mean to seem petty but your misinterpreting a very important scripture, a scripture that gives people the key on how to discern if a person is good or evil. You watch what they "do". Because actions always speak louder then words!
Savannah: you are such a spiritual force. Such clarity!
My sister works in the church public affairs office as a hired employee. I'd love to pick her brain on all the inside stuff she may know. But that's a boundary I do not cross.
What I took away from this podcast-We’re all learning and growing so respect the journey and be patient. Meet people where they’re at. It’s your life, you call the shots. We all have bodily anatomy so let others be themselves. Look for commonalities and respect people’s differences ❤️
Wow, I learnt so much listening to this. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I never realised how much money the church owned and how much land they have! Absolutely crazy. I managed to watch the documentaries you referenced. I’m not a Mormon and have never been, but have learnt lots about it. And honestly watching those documentaries were wild, watching them as an outsider makes you see how ‘cult like’ it really is. Loved this episode. Would love more like this with former church employees if any are willing to speak out x
"The quickest way to lose your testimony of the church is to work for the church." I can vouch for that. I worked for BYU most of my student life. At graduation time, a professor offered me a full-time job working for the university. At that point, I couldn't take it any more and wanted to leave.
Do you think the Amish will ever rebrand? It sounds like the LDS church is leading us to be more of the world rather than in the world. Our culture is unique and we should not conform and accept what is popular. It sounds like philosophies of men are being mingled with the gospel teachings.
Lots of respect for the road that you have walked as a family - the beautiful thing is that you have not lost each other - these are real family values.
Great interview! I watched the whole thing but my ears really perked up when you mentioned the church ranch in Florida. My father was the ranch manager in the early 80’s, I’m wondering if he would have been one of the retired managers that you would’ve interviewed? He was not a businessman 😉. I would most likely know all three. I would like to say more but I can’t. 🤣
AMAZING interview, loved loved loved every minute. 😊❤
I have a friend who is pretty high up in the department that works on the website and he oversaw a lot of the change to ChurchOfJesusChrist from lds. He hasn't left the church, but his wife, who is also a close friend, just did and I'm curious to see what their journey looks like in the coming months.
Prayers for their family.
The future is in extraordinarily good hands because of impressive young women such as these two. Brilliant compassionate, honest and clear. I think the reason the general authorities are so reluctant to embrace social media or any casual contact / communication is the same logic as the British Monarchy… they have a 1000 year tradition of “no comment” to any and all controversy. Again, you are very very impressive young women. Your parents must be way beyond proud of you both.
Thank you so much. Getting perspectives from all religions is my journey for truth now! So generous of you all to do this!
Great episode!
Just a heads up that her audio was actually completely gone when she got up and was showing her tattoo.
I really, really enjoyed this interview. They are amazingly strong women. I have been out of the church since 1998 but have just buried a lot of feelings and thoughts about what it did to my family. After watching this interview I see that the church destroyed my relationship with my sister. She passed away in 2016 and I cannot visit her grave because I thought I was angry with her for her life choices that led to her death. Now I see clearly that it is misplaced anger. The church indoctrinated me so well growing up that even though I left in 1998, the damage between me and my sister had already split the relationship. It carried through adulthood. I really miss my sister and I want to tell her I am sorry and I love her. This church has ruined countless lives and relationships. Thank you for this podcast. Thank you to these ladies for being courageous. I am so happy they have time to repair the relationships with the parents/grandparents. This has been my favorite podcast since I started watching 4 years ago. Thank you.❤
Late to the game show (by a few years) but this is so good for me to hear. I may have to listen to it again. But I have heard so much that I needed to hear while trying to raise very aware grandchildren!
its so much easier to leave the church outside of Utah. You fighting the battle inside Utah are the true warriors.
There is no way I could create a 60 second tik tok of my Mormon story. I just turned 50 and after 21 years of marriage, I just barely told my wife I came home early from my mission. I've been faking it for 30 years and I cringed every time I was with my wife and my family brought up my mission as I was afraid they would let it slip. My story is too full of shame and guilt and is utterly depressing. In fact, I would have to cover my face if I was on Mormon stories because I still carry a large part of that shame and guilt. My mission was a virtual nightmare that I still have dreams about.
You should not have been put in that position to begin with. You did the right thing to leave.
I am so sorry that you both experienced that, and that you still carry shame for living your truth. I am praying that you will let the Truth set you free, as Jesus promises to do. We live and die before an Audience of One and it is what He thinks "Come to me all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest", "the Lord loves you with an everlasting love", "His mercies are new every morning, great is His faithfulness", "when we are faithless He will still be faithful to us", etc. Read your Gospels as a child would, setting aside what you think of theology you've been taught. Know and understand Jesus for yourself and allow the Holy Spirit to set you free from sin and guilt and shame. For all that He has done for us we live in humble gratitude for his mercy and grace. Be blessed and be free. Jesus is the Truth and He loves the Truth and He loves You and knows what you've been through.
I'm in my 60s now [ to let you know the time period I'm talking about - the 60s, 70s & 80s] and it was the exception in our ward when a missionary DIDN'T come home early. They came home for every reason under the sun and it was no big deal, no one sweated it. Some came home out of fear the girl waiting for them wouldn't wait, some for health issues, some for unknown reasons. We're talking about 19 year olds here, so I don't understand how it can be a surprise, serious disappointment or anything to feel so bad about.
I was sent back from my original mission in a foreign country to a state-side mission halfway through [after just learning the language well enough to speak[, and the missionaries I was thrown in with were suspicious of why for awhile, but most never made anything of it.
I cussed out the mission president in my new mission once, after only being there a month or so, but he forgave me. We were kids......we did what we did...don't beat yourself over the head for it.
Money does not mix well at all with spirituality, because that “spirituality” soon becomes just another tactic for money.
I was going to say I love that she pitched Jesus as a rebel because now the church has participated with ‘The Chosen’ series and they portray him as a rebel haha!
The State of Utah has been functioning with two sets of standards and organized ways to suckle the situation at the costs of Federal Funding. You will note that most of their State Contractors are neither licensed, or accredited to represent agencies that cash juicy subventions from the Feds. This is done this way, because most of those “Managers” and “Supervisors” are only church appointed minions who pledge more loyalty to the Brethren than they do to the law of the United States. If you happen to be one of the lucky persons who uncovers such problematic elites, you will feel like playing with roaches, as the dirt has no end.
@@ivettelee5340 Right most, but what does that say about those who are? Living free off of those who barely have anything to give and are told, or believe they will receive blessings in exchange for money is a tactic of manipulation and control, members can see it as they will but broken down at the end of the day the church is just another business and all businesses at the core work the same, I’m not saying that out of malice it is in fact a corporation.
Tithe 100% is something you should give out of your own heart not something you should ever feel obligated to give because you have to enter the temple or be in good standings in order to receive any type of blessings. Tithe (in the Bible) was originally for levitical priests so if you’re not Levite you shouldn’t be requiring it ever.
I enjoyed this film so much. I experienced the same thing being a Jehovah Witness woman. I did not want to be a mother, domestic maid to a man. I felt I had a lot to offer and was constantly put down by the church "elders". Because I had no husband most elders thought it their duty to run my life. So I married the only man available, college educated, he was in but mentally out. It took me longer to see the bad. I did not have sex until married at 23. I didn't have the urges early. Never tried even weed until in my fifties. Freedom is better than fear.
I'm disappointed that despite correlation coming up repeatedly, it was not explained for the non-mo's and (let's be frank) a lot of Mormons. I always thought that correlation was freaky. Now that the "church" is not really taking responsibility for falsely teaching how the BOM was translated through the use of deceptive artwork (they blame the artist), I would like to point out that all of those misleading pieces of art were approved through correlation. It was their choice to use that artwork for decades/centuries.
The book was translated by the urim am thummim like Joseph said. If anyone actually researches rather than watching youtube garbage they might find out most of these issues are put out by people thinking they know more than the records of the church and scholars who try to read more into history than is known, also there's many adversarial people doing Satan's work for him trying to weaken Christ's gospel. I don't personally care what church a person chooses to attend and wonder; "why is it everyone attacks the LDS faith so much"? Just proves to me that I want to know more about this church and the revelations that are recorded from Jesus Christ to the prophet Joseph Smith. The more I look the more I believe. If you're looking for reasons to leave you will always be able to justify it for yourselves. What's most important is that you develop your own relationships with Jesus Christ. At least, be careful and don't leave God out of your lives whatever decision you may make about the church.
@@annesavage9735 I'm confused by your statement. I read the article you linked here and it was entirely supporting the use of Seer stones. Yet you say the Church admits he didn't use a stone. Where did you read that admission? I've never seen anything that suggests he didn't use Seer stones. Seer stone usage is perfectly consistent with translation by the 'gift and power of God'.
@@BillInmanArt binmyrtmind said it was "translated using the urim am thummim like Joseph said" and that internet garbage was wrong. I was disagreeing, saying it has finally been admitted he used a seer stone (if you believe he translated anything at all). I grew up in the church and NEVER heard about a seer stone other than the church denying the (true) stories that he used a seer stone for treasure hunting and had issues in the legal system related to that. The church is finally admitting that what the "antimormons" had been saying for a century is actually true. If you have "never heard anything that suggests he didn't use a seer stone" before this essay, it would great if you published links to common church publications for the general membership dated before this essay. Has the church been saying he used a seer stone in a hat all along and millions of people somehow missed that?
@@binmyrtmind check out the Joseph Smith Papers on the churches own website. Also there is several articles in the Gospel Topic section which the Church leaders even supply a actual photograph of the 'Seer Stone' Joseph Smith admitiedly used to dictate not translate.
@@HonesE57 Is there something I need to know from your comment? What's the purpose of telling me this? Then I can answer.
Another great episode
Linda, you are awesome!
I love ❤️ your guests in this episode what healthy people are and I love the young girl super open heart Go blessing them for defense the real faith they are 👏
I live in the valley and moved here from Idaho. My family wasn’t Mormon. I was made fun of and not treated very well at all as a teen. I feel the daughters pain and I hope she finds peace someday.
Every new low that is revealed about the under belly of the LDS church makes you realise their spiritual deception and greed for monetary enrichment is boundless. It’s really quite shocking. 🥺 Thanks John for these new revelations by great guests…👌🏽
Yeah, instead of reaching new heights w/ each new revelation, we're plumbing new depths as we discover just how low the Lord's anointed will go to ensure their continued cushy lifestyle, all tax free, BTW.
@@kathyclark8274 Its both disturbing and sad for those dedicating their precious time, and valuable finances. 😔
@@jamesoneil1388 You could be right in some cases…😵💫
I don’t think that very many care about the truth. The church is a bizarre blend of ultra mysticism and laissez faire capitalism. The people who are in need of love the most are preyed upon and exploited by the church and then shunned when they can’t successfully act the part of a good mormon. The ones that accept the business aspect and enjoy controlling people rise to the top.
Really no difference from the Pharisees during Jesus' time. Jesus spike against "the traditions of the elders" who were all for show and status. www.cgg.org/index.cfm/library/verses/id/916/tradition-pharisees-verses.htm
Hello, I was wondering if I could share my story and how I might do that here on the podcast…
when did you leave the church?
@@brooksdurham5285, it was around 2013. I was studying at BYU up till that point. Return Missionary.
@@PutingPinoy you should email john. would like to hear your story
@@brooksdurham5285 thanks! Are you ex-mo as well?
@@PutingPinoy I am not but I really enjoy hearing peoples stories on this channel and I see you have a big UA-cam channel so it must be an interesting story
I am a Mormon so I no longer belong to President Nelson’s church. I really appreciated this interview though already decided to leave church she helped me deal with residual feelings.
I can't hear what Savannah's saying about her tattoo.
I admire these women!
Great interview
Listening to Savannah it's hard to not think her experience is because she's in Utah. The Church is different in other places because the church culture isn't as influential. It's dangerous when church culture is stronger and the gospel becomes back stage. It makes me really sad to hear how the culture treated her. I've never heard of someone being treated like that in my area of California.
Then your eyes are needing to widen
@@lisasmith4639 They're widened enough. I used to drink tea/ coffee in school and almost all of my church friends around my age partied and/or got pregnant as teens. Never did we treat them like that or comment about their actions. We just accepted them, but we never shamed them.
Legitimately everything her daughter said is everything I had problems with when my shelf finally broke. Give or take a couple things. Like wow I felt like I was watching myself 😅😄😅
Like my vocal or emotional doppelganger the more I keep watching this. 😂
So happy to hear this Danica!!!
I really appreciate the information about Tik Tok. I have a story to tell. However, I am not progressive, nor am I an ex-Mormon, nor am I a fundamentalist, or a member of the remnant community, but I have a story to tell. I don't know how well it would fit on Tik Tok. At least I have something to think about.
This was a very enjoyable podcast. I can't believe I was interested enough to watch it all, but it did.
2:16:18 "I chose my child." So wonderful. My parents continue to choose the church. Every. Single. Day.
Can you please ask this question: What advice does Linda and John have about what her dad could have done different to take away the heartache she felt about him not being active in the church?
A big help is just building up the personal relationship and having open, loving, respectful conversations. It’s the only way I think you can sometimes bypass the differing beliefs between you.
Excellent interview and discussion with Linda and Savannah! I'm impressed with the story of their journey, individual experiences, and how much they have overcome to reach the happier and healthier place they are at now. One thing that continues to stand out to me in the majority of Mormon Stories Podcast interviews is the day and night difference between ex-members speaking freely and truthfully from their hearts and minds versus the many members who have been conditioned by the culture to not ask others (or themselves) hard questions, not share experiences, not speak freely, openly, and honestly out of fear of reprisals from their church or their peers. Linda's mother's "You don't have to do this" speaks volumes.
The real tragedy with people not being genuine and vocal with themselves and others is that in a large enough group of people there are others present who are going through very similar challenges and who could definitely be helped and comforted by someone else with the same challenges, problems, or questions. If only they knew the other people were also in the same room. I'm reminded of my parent's era, when it was pretty much taboo in society to talk much about cancer versus today when more and more people openly share what they are going through medically, which is so very, very helpful to others.
As I hear more and more member stories, I'm struck by how many of us felt like we were second class citizens in the church, regardless of whether we were born into the church, were converts, did or did not go on missions, etc. I've been out of the church for decades now, but it makes me wonder how many other members I interacted with might have just been like many of the outstanding people you interview. It would have been nice for some of us to have met without our artificial cloaks hiding our genuine selves.
I strongly agree with the amount of damage the church and church culture does to so many families and relationships both in and out of the church. In my own experience and observations, I feel much of the damage the church causes to members and non-members centers around temples, missionary work, gender/identity roles, as well as major informed consent and "truth" issues.
John, I'm sure this wasn't intentional, but you might review your comment at 1:29:00 about being "not just a hairdresser". The "not just a " really shouldn't be applied to any line of work as it can imply or be taken as looking down on certain jobs as somehow inferior, which of course they are not. Before using "not just a " it's important to consider how all the people who currently hold that job may feel and react when they hear the statement. I'm not trying to be critical, just offering feedback since that comment raised an eyebrow or two here.
Thank you Linda and Savannah for sharing your stories and John for facilitating the interview! Stories such as yours are very helpful to so many of us, including myself, that are still processing our Mormon and post-Mormon experiences and feelings.
Thanks for the feedback! I’ll try to be more
careful. I love hairdressers and I meant so say that in air quotes!!!
I love what was said about the church needing to just be honest about what they are…a corporation and to remove themselves from family relationships; they are so damaging to families, mine included.
Right there with you. After my parents divorced there was zero healthy communication or healthy relationships in the home. It was all about church and never actually solving the problems. The church needs to learn boundaries and stay out of people's personal lives.
The Church is at a terrible Crossroad today. There have been decades of struggles to separate the “good” Mormons from the “creepy” ones, meaning those who twisted Christianity to produce their Mystical White Supremacist lunacy of inbreeding and sex trafficking for the Reich in Planet Kolob. More moderate Mormons have kept trying to bring that insanity down to normal. Eventually, the clan was forced to accept black men as priests, under threat by the Boy Scouts Association of America. But… what then? A part of their invention is still well and functioning (FLDS), with the inbreeding and the polygamy and the polygyny and all sorts of ignorance and abuse of men women and children going on. When these persons perchance move to the urban areas, they attend LDS services and benefit from free food, rent payments, and so on. I have witnessed this as I worked helping women out of the sex violence for some time. So that in reality, the two organizations are not really separate, but the LDS uses the FLDS to point their fingers when they try to whitewash their participation in the crimes against humanity that they all are guilty of.
@@amravindeschur1463 i am not mormon but i have friends and they have never tried to biswede me to join . i know a bit about it from general chatting with them and from on here . i think the ban on sex before marrige from the lds is hypocritical because of what js did and you mentioned the word polygamy . he did worse then bigamy by cheating on his 1 st and only legal wife and not only married many others but many were already married . none of it was legal in fact against everything . i respect every ones religion or non believers but with this it would be pretty difficult .
My family is forever separated because of this church.... I was the worthy one all along... they all sold their souls to the false doctrines of this church. My father figured it out shortly before he passed and mom didn't start reading the bible until 2016, I finally woke her up in late 2019, she just passed 4 months ago... There are very few pictures of me with them on family vacations, camping trips or any other events...I wasn't worthy.... That hurts... I was a member without a Temple rec... then I noticed the teachings clashing with the bible, and became inactive...
Joe wanted them all for himself
Interesting insights into the prayer-writing especially. So it's something a woman *can* do in the church, but only if a man takes credit for it.
I think the renewed focus on the Church's name makes complete sense, in a few steps: The broader world gives you a nickname, you accept it, milk it for all its worth, do campaigns to reduce stereotypes (I'm a Mormon), and then, when you have enough power and clout, you insist on your real name and real identity (the on that was revealed in the Doctrine and Covenants). It doesn't seem strange to me, but I understand it would be hard for people working for the Church.
There is a difference between renewing the name and calling anything mormon a victory for satan.
Where do I find part one? I can’t find it…
Here's the link to part 1:
ua-cam.com/video/O9wOU2NBPYU/v-deo.html
I've never heard the term copywriter before. The more I learn the more I know absolutely nothing.
I watch some of these stories and almost always think I didn't have it so bad never having been trapped inside that so-call Mormon bubble that you hear so much about in Utah, but then I have to remind myself that "not so bad" included things like marrying my rapist because the Prophet of the Church (Kimball) said it was better to be dead than survive rape.... so I found a way to avoid calling it rape, blamed myself, and made myself believe that turning it into a marriage would magically fix things (helped along by the motivation of a green card for him). But one of the things that really struck me in this interview was the comment made towards the end of the interview when they spoke about how the church weaponizes things like the death of a loved one, especially a child. I couldn't agree more. It's extortion, plain and simple. But just try and take advantage of "Families Are Forever" as a single/divorced woman. The memory of my Bishop pointing out to me that I could not be sealed to my children without a man was just gut-wrenching. I don't know why I had not realized or thought about that before, but I had never even thought about going down that road until after my daughter passed away. But don't worry, I was told; God will work it all out so you can still be together forever... just continue to be obedient and make sure you remain worthy, etc. It just makes you wonder why God's can't "work it all out" for everyone, without all those Temple Ordinances and all the hoop-jumping. I had always struggled with gaining a testimony of the truthfulness of the church and the authenticity of Joseph Smith, but I always thought it was because there was just something wrong with me. (Having been taught all my life that was exactly the case didn't hurt any. LOL) But I think that was the first major Ah-ha moment for me. There may have always been some things on that proverbial shelf, but I think that might have been the first one I was really cognizant of. And maybe it was the only thing I ever put on the shelf. I don't think I knew ANY of the things that so many other ex-members talk about when it comes to their crisis of faith and exit from the church until long after I was already out. My exit wasn't very eventful in that regard, I think I just settled into my agnosticism.... at least for awhile.
Hi Chrissiela. I am new to this channel. This video was just suggested to me on my UA-cam feed and I am going to watch. I started to look at the comments and saw yours. I am so sorry for what you went through. I am studying a lot of things about world religions right now, and this one is close to home since I am raised and a member of the church, but on the other side of the coin. I was baptized in the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (the reorganization through Joseph Smith III) and my family left shortly before it became the Community of Christ. Those who left the church (since they started going liberal and joined the ecumenical movement) formed their own independent congregations, and some have formed into groups. Anyway, why I wanted to respond to you is because of my personal study. My mom-in-law and grandma have done a lot of research into the church and LDS in their years of study. My mom-in-law learned that there is very strong evidence that suggests Brigham Young had Joseph Smith murdered and changed much of the history of the church to make it appear as though JS practiced polygamy and was behind those doctrines in the LDS, such as the sealing and that we become gods. Brigham Young and other apostles, if not more priesthood, were involved in Freemasonry, and I have learned that much of their doctrines came out of Freemasonry. I have started a study on this as part of my religion research and I can say that it's so obvious now. Especially with the symbolism on the temples. I don't know where you are in your sorting out your beliefs with the truth you are learning, but there is a good resource for proving that JS did not practice or promote polygamy, but actually fought against it. It's a series of books by a couple who dedicated several decades to finding and compiling this information. I bought the series and only read a few chapters before lights began to come on in my head. Polygamy started with a group called the Cochranites and Brigham and several others adopted this practice through them.
Here is a link to these books if you are interested:
restorationbookstore.org/pages/joseph-smith-fought-polygamy-online
restorationbookstore.org/collections/joseph-smith-fought-polygamy
I don't believe JS was a liar, but do think he was making some mistakes in some of his beliefs before his death. I believe he was a good man that Satan was trying to destroy in order to destroy the restored gospel.
I wish the best for you and your healing from the mental and emotional abuse you endured.
@@cyndih4720 Thank you. I appreciate your kindness. As to Joseph, polygamy or no polygamy I really do not think that Joseph Smith can be salvaged as a Prophet. I don't believe the Book of Mormon teaches the same gospel that the Bible does, for starters. And there are huge issues with the JST of the Bible on top of that. I will check out your links, though. I am always interested in how/why JS is defended by those outside of the larger LDS Organization. That said, to their credit, I thought the RLDS/Community of Christ held a Trinitarian view of the Godhead. But the home page of the link you presented above presents the first vision as the appearing of both the Father and the Son to JS. As to my own journey. my lack of testimony led me down the path of inactivity and agnosticism for many years. I didn't actually reject the LDS Church and it's teachings outright until I had a spiritual encounter with the Lord several years later (2004). I immediately gained a testimony of Jesus Christ. Within hours (after reading all 4 gospels) knew that LDS Doctrine concerning the godhead was false, making the LDS Church false. Through my studies since then I have identified many other LDS Doctrines that are false, many issues with the BoM and the JST. I don't think any of those things can be reconciled with the teachings of the Bible without casting doubt on the Bible (which is why I believe the LDS always do, though they try to downplay that fact). But, again, thank you and I will check out the links.
@@Chrissiela You're welcome. :-) I hope I didn't offend or bug you with my comment. I am not familiar with most of the LDS teachings, so I know I couldn't know where you are coming from, but wanted to share what I had learned, since what I learned was shocking to me at the time. My experience as far as testimony had an opposite result for me as far as the Book of Mormon goes, but I don't think either of us have had false experiences. I also went through a time, after seeing how the church as a whole appeared to be a little hypocritical and there has been pride with priesthood and people on the whole not really serious about getting ready for the kingdom. I was seriously questioning everything I had been taught, and even wondering if there was a Jesus, even though I had great hope, but I wanted to know what the truth was. And he began to show me as I studied. I also had an experience with Jesus, very special, when I asked him if He and God loved me and to let me see myself through His eyes, as I was going through a very difficult time with my identity. My reading the Book of Mormon along with the Bible has actually brought me from questioning to believing very strongly that the Book of Mormon and part of the tribes of Israel being brought here is true. But it wasn't overnight. We've been taught that there is a trinity, God the father, Jesus the only begotten son, Holy Ghost. Our version of JS's story was that he saw the God and Jesus when he asked which church to join, and that they looked identical. We were taught that all of us were created spiritually by Jesus before the earth was formed and Satan was one of the created spirits. When he rebelled, was cast out with the 1/3 (demons). The rest of us were to come here to choose who we would serve and learn and grow spiritually. We were taught that there are 3 "glories" at the final judgement when all spirits have been born on earth. Those who want to serve God on His terms (obey his commandments through Jesus) and believe in Jesus as their savior are the Celestial (as stated in D&C); those who want to serve God on their own terms (pick what they choose to obey) but also have a testimony/belief in Jesus as their savior will be saved in the Terrestrial; and those who don't believe in Jesus or who don't know and don't care, but they don't fight God with be saved in the Telestial. And those who are not saved to a glory are those who defy God and hate him, like Satan. People are given free choice and will not be forced to live in an eternity where they would not be happy.
I hope I didn't say too much and bother you, I just wanted to share since you shared a little with me.
Jeez
Maybe the reason the brethren were reluctant to adopt social media platforms is because pornographers were early adopters and they didn't want to get lumped in with them.
“Baseball Baptisms”. My bf served in a very poor area of Buenos Aires and he said a lot of the young men in the community would get baptized bc the chapel had a pool on site. In order to use the pool, you have to be a member. This was in the mid to late 1990’s.
I don’t think he or his companions looked at it as a way to bump up #’s but figured, at least these young men would be around more (even if just for the pool) that they would have more of a chance to be around the spirit.
I'm going through all the ostracized stuff right now. I've never felt more alone and hurt.
I’m so sorry Matthew!
@@mormonstories Thanks, these videos help.
This is so interesting. I was a staunch prude in high school *because* I was atheist. I wanted to undercut assumptions of atheist=amoral
Does anyone know why she chose the tattoo? I couldn't hear her explaining it at all! :(
Has anyone come up with a solid estimate of approximately how many members are resigning AND/OR becoming inactive per year? So I guess what I’m asking is, do we know by what percentage active Mormon membership is decreasing each year?
I took out my endowments in the 80s with all the weird stuff. Once was enough. Never did it again.
This has been the best episode for me and hubby. We heard so much that has been helpful to us. We agreed with Linda and Vanna so much. Good job ladies.
I had to laugh at the alcohol story. I hardly ever drink, but I do remember that first time I tried it. It was exactly the same... man, I don't feel anything... then BAM, you know you drank too much. LOL Still haven't had coffee though. :)
@@j.j.5731 Thanks. That was actually 20+ years ago. I got tired of a friend who kept using alcohol as an excuse. I didn't have any experience, at the time, so I gave myself some (the hard way, I guess. But I count on both hands the number of times I have a drink since then. Couldn't even tell you when the last time was. I just really don't care for it. Thankfully.
I just started dating a man who is a devoted Mormon. He was on Mormon dating app for 9 months and decided to go on Tinder (which isn't just hook up....but aren't they all?) He found me. I adore him, but I am strong in my own, personal belief. He is wanting me to read Book of Mormon, etc. Etc. I told him I am not a fan of organized religion ( he says Mormons aren't. Whaaaa?l I pray and meditate daily and have my own conversations with my higher power and is....none of anyone's business, really. I don't want any man to shape me into his belief. I can respect everyone's belief...whatever gets you thru this time on earth. Is love and kindness and generosity not enough. Can someone please comment?
You are in a bit of a pickle. I don't want to say it can't work, but it will be hard. I look at my own brother and sister-in-law. He is LDS, and my sister-in-law is Catholic. They make their marriage work because they agreed to split their faith. One week they attend mass, the next our Sacrament Meeting. They have found a way to be together.
This isn't common, and is the exception to the rule ...
It is fundamental to our beliefs as LDS that all other churches are wrong. The ONLY way to be "saved" is by joining the Mormon "church". So your new man may be planning all along on baptizing you at some point in the future .. It depends on him ... he could be fine with your beliefs, but just know that he will probably try and get you to be baptized. It is in our core beliefs that he can't go to the highest degree of heaven unless you become an obedient mormon wife someday and go there with him ...
Again, it depends on the guy ... just know even if he is accepting of you and your beliefs, know what pressures will be pulling on him due to his own faith ... there will be a lifetime of pressure to try and get you to join our cullt ... He may place his love for you above what his faith, culture, friends, and associates are telling him, but it won't be easy ... I hope that helps!
Keep doing you. That’s my advice Lisa! - John
According to GAUTAMA, it is better to be compassionate than being right
How to find part 1? Please
26:32 the whole young woman's presidency was gay in my ward lol
I used to think you were crazy John but now I see you are a huge balm of gilead for both Mormons and people who have left alike. You’re right. Why should this fall on YOUR shoulders??
What time is the thrive without religion conference?
When she talked about what the church should do, I like that. The church can have a revolution. How badass would it be if the church took responsibility for its history, and became an organization 'like for its members' and the church took a knee🤔
Oh ya, and what a badass tattoo
Have you seen this article in “The New Yorker?”
What Makes a Cult a Cult?
The line between delusion and what the rest of us believe may be blurrier than we think.
By Zoë Heller July 5, 2021
If you make an email address publicly available I could forward it to you.
mormonstories@gmail.com
Not to take away from this good woman's experience, losing your faith is incredibly painful and we all have different things that get to us, but how incredible is it that with how profitable the church actually is, sitting on almost a trillion, it's president makes about the same as my dentist (probably). And thousands put so much in without pay, they all do it for the love of their Savior. With all of their many many imperfections one cannot deny the pure intent behind those who serve in this church. I come to John for a different perspective but found this oddly faith promoting.
Imagine what Jesus could and likely would do differently if he were actually the head of the church and could direct that amount of human and capital resources to reduce the suffering of mankind and make the world a kinder, peaceful, and more compassionate world. I suspect he wouldn't spend a lot of resources building unnecessary and expensive ceremonial buildings as carrots to keep his followers in line. He'd probably be a bit more like former President Jimmy Carter and be out regularly setting good examples like building homes for the those needing shelter, offering safety to those needing refuge, while also encouraging his followers to voluntarily devote their skills and resources to do similar actions. Tithing misspent or unnecessarily hoarded represents not just waste and unnecessary burden on members, it represent huge lost opportunity cost elsewhere.
@@Dave-zx2im When Jesus was here, he was actually at that expensive ceremonial building every single day and it didn't seem so unnecessary to him as the only time he showed real anger was when people disrespected it, and with all He went through that's saying a lot. So I would think it is a priority for Him. And they are completely essential. He also never criticized the church at the time for building it instead of giving to the poor. He did criticize individuals, especially the wealthy, for loving their things more than the poor and needy.
@@ARAZTXTN - GREAT point!
My take is that the church reached a point where their progress & work had to expand faster than they could depend on tithing alone. I'm sure it's extremely unstable, given how most members waver, come and go, and many don't pay tithing or at least a full tithe anyway, and a church like the LDS church that does so much more, both in welfare and building, than the average protestant church, must have an incredible level of expenses.
Back when the church did depend on member support, they were always poor, always had problems, deficits, etc. So the only solution was to begin investing to create a more stable source of funding. If the church depended on the members for tithing, there is no way they could fund the temples, genealogy, church buildings and many other projects for it's vision of the work of salvation and gathering of Israel in the last days. It's a far greater work than most people imagine and it all takes the kind of money that "grows on trees" [as an analogy].
I'm not the least bit surprised they turned to investments for their main source.
She mentioned the youth program and the Leadership still running it. Well yes and no. Of course the what is being taught as far as in the lessons is from the church. But , the youth program now is being run by the youth. The Ward leadership is there to advise and guide them. To help them stay in the boundaries. And the youth are having good results. The new program is still just that New (all are still learning).But they will get out of it what They put in it. It is a Youth Lead Program. They will be the Leaders of Tommorow.
When i was in high school. They recruited high school boys where i lived. They had yo go to the church in order to play on the basketball team. I dont remember if they were Baptised. That was in Michigan in the 70's
Why do I need to attend church when I can just read the Mormon websites and watch the UA-cam videos? I have been in Elders quorum meetings where they literally played church UA-cam videos - I'm like I got dressed for this?? Hell, I coulda watched this in the comfort of my jetted tub! Zero thought or actual research goes into church lessons anymore, just regurgitated - like she said.
I actually quit using Family Search for a long time because I was unsure of how my tree was being used by the LDS.
@32:06 - Little life-lesson here. When someone is inserted above you with little consideration for your efforts, AND said person indicates they're willing to shoot themselves repeatedly in the foot, don't take the gun away from them. Just document your objections so when the crap hits the fan the "golden boy" will be splattered with the excrement while you remain relatively unmarred.
What was the name of Linda's tiktok channel?
vm.tiktok.com/ZMdXyyGA1/
@@mormonstories Thanks