I worked with Camille in the Church offices. She was such a wonderful friend and associate to all! She is and was very respected by all my fellow colleagues. She is very bright and articulate and loaded with talents and skills. Camille is the type of friend we all should seek after! We do love and appreciated Camille!
Camille's episodes are the first ones I viewed in full after I made the decision to leave activity in the church. She is smart, articulate, and beautiful - far too good to be some schlub's 'second chance'. She reminds me of my oldest daughter, who has two engineering degrees and works in aerospace manufacturing. Her experience was very VERY helpful to me while I was still processing my fairly traumatic faith journey out of the church. Thank you Camille for sharing your experience. It was so helpful to me.
The fact that she is going on such an adventure to the UK and starting fresh, makes me so incredibly happy for her. Her story is such a triumph over oppression.
I enjoyed and appreciated every minute of both parts of this interview with Camille Jones. I am a former Mormon who left the church in 2016 and have been binge watching Mormon Stories over the last two months. Its taken me six years as a non member to become less angry enough to face all of the things wrong with the church and begin to process my eventual loss of faith. I was a Bishop for 5 years and served on the High Council for many years. My wife was the first in our family to leave the church, followed eventually by all six of my adult children, and lastly by my own complete and utter loss of testimony and belief in the church. The work you are doing with Mormon Stories has helped me to understand and process the last 30 years of my life and try to find healing and meaning. Thank you for your time and sacrifice. Please keep up this important work. Great Job to you both!
Yes ! If I were still in the software business, where precise thinking is a job requirement, I would hire her to do SOMETHING. Such people are rare even among the well educated.
Camille…I’m almost 30 years exmo. I resigned my membership a long time ago and have helped a number of people through the resignation process. The most important thing to know is that if you’ve sent the church your resignation letter, they can’t excommunicate you…you already quit and they can’t fire you. If the church makes the attempt, makes plans to convene a court and demand that you submit, they are putting themselves in an actionable position. Back in the ‘90s, I was told by an attorney (one of those who I assisted in walking through the resignation process had retained the attorney as the church attempted to convene a court over their resignation) that once you resign, you’re no longer subject to the church’s authority or their processes. For what it’s worth, I’m proud of you for not only having the courage to leave the church and resign but to also go very public about why you left. I’ve lived most of my adult life on the west coast and not in a place where mormon culture permeates every aspect of virtually everything around one. I can’t begin to imagine how difficult it was for you to go through this as a Utah mormon. I’m glad you did escape and that it was well into the 21st century. There are so many more resources and so much support available that one doesn’t have to do this alone as was the case in most of my exit story. I’m excited for you that you get to study abroad. I think you’ll find that outside of church culture and especially in Europe in general, there are a fair number of single guys in your age group who’ve never married because there was not the pressure to marry and start a family in their early 20’s. I’m confident you’ll find a guy, a “first chance” guy that’ll be perfect for you and you for him. What an adventure you’re embarking on. I hope you do a followup with John a few years from now as a wholly positive affirmation that there is a life worth living post mormon, contrary to what the church tells its members.
I love the way John gets the most information from the guests to give a complete understanding to the viewer beyond just their individual stories. No stone unturned.
I was an RM, former Ordinance Worker, from an Orthodox Mormon family and parents in high up callings, and current WML in my YSA ward when I decided to leave the church four years ago. I am also currently finishing up my BA as a 26 year old (not 30s but still older than many of my fellow classmates). I appreciated Camille sharing her story and wish her good luck in school.
It’s so sad how the church disempowered Camille by underutilizing her. “I didn’t feel highly capable because I was sitting there feeling like a waste of space” gave me chills, as did “The best I felt was when I got hired.” Hearing about the steady decline in a woman’s self-confidence and wellbeing because of a patriarchal organization is so sad. Also I CANNOT BELIEVE SHE DIDN’T EARN ENOUGH TO RENT AN APARTMENT DOWNTOWN. Ugh.
Oh yes....how truly sad this is, a horrible tale of being under used. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? “Sad” is the boarder crisis in the US! “Sad” is the Biden debacle in Afghanistan! Isis removing the brain of a pregnant woman while her 13 yr old son was forced to watch is what gave me “chills”. Good grief Shallow Shelley!
I can’t understand why you would stay in a job you don’t like? I’ve had many jobs in my life, and if I was this unhappy with my job I would go and get another one, the employer isn’t there for my benefit, I’m there to work and to be productive, and if that’s not happening for you then Why didn’t you just quit ????. It sounds like you just expected them to baby you instead of just moving on to a new job ? Trying to understand why you stayed so long ? Anyway hope things get better for you and good luck in the future.
This was the first Mormon Story I have ever heard. Hearing Camille’s story was extremely validating- I was raised in a devout Mormon family, And I left the Church in 1994 ish. I didn’t have access to post- Mo community and i always felt as though i was fighting for validation of my experience. Camille did that through her honesty and commitment to telling the Truth. I’ve often said the Church uses boredom as a weapon - and it almost literally killed this poor woman. Thank you, Camille, for your bravery, and I wish you all the best in your studies! Ps I shared this video with my Mormon family as my own act of “courage “.
I so feel for Camille--I was one of those 'older singles," and didn't marry until in my early 30s. I wish her peace and healing and new opportunities for education and love!
Fantastic episode.....Camille's thoughts on her SI and "failed expectations" spoke directly to me. I have been in that painful place, and have come through it. Its a scary place, but her bravery really hit home for me, and validates that I wasn't alone. Thank you so much. Camille!
Camille, my "crystal ball" tells me you're on the precipice of AMAZING! I'm so impressed by you! Wishing you thousands of beautiful FIRST'S! John and Carah- please bring Camille back 🙏 So excited for the continuation of this story!
@@charlesmendeley9823 no informed consent during the conversion process. If I would have had all the facts during those meetings I would have never converted. Never. Church history, good , bad and indifferent is important to disclose when it comes to wanting someone to turn over their salvation to the organization.
What a wonderful, courageous woman Camille is. Bless her for putting herself out there in this way for others benefit. I wish her all the best and will be praying that she connects with a higher power that cares for her as she deserves.
Thank you so much for sharing! This was beautiful. I know Camille said she did not want to cry, but I'm so thankful that she was vulnerable and honest about how she was really feeling. Thank you so much!
Really appreciated this interview. I went through a major depressive episode before I left the church as well and also didn't realize I needed help. It was healing to hear I wasn't the only one. I did eventually seek professional help as well.
Camille you got yourself through your darkest hour. You are the source for all good things in your life. You are not dependent on any god, man, or other person for your self worth and happiness. Oh, and your smile is infectious.
Kara is an awesome interviewer and so empathetic! I am so glad she is a part of the Mormon Stories. Her authenticity is fabulous and I love hearing about her sweet family.
What an incredible person…… 💙 Camille, I am rooting for you and applaud you for coming on Mormon Stories to share your story with the world. We see you. We see what was done. And your name goes in the history books as one of the brave who has come forward. xxxx
Loved this interview!!! Brave of Camille! Nobody is perfect, listeners stop the rude comments!!! John and Kara are incredible and I love all that they share on this platform ❤️😍
Really enjoyed this segment with Camille. Such a gentle soul that exudes so much potential. I hope she can grow, achieve and be blessed with many rainbows ahead. She deserves good things.
If the Me Too movement has done anything, it’s brought to light to those who haven’t experienced it just how much sexual harassment & abuse women experience. Camille didn’t do anything to illicit predatory behavior of men. Nothing at all. It would be next to impossible for a beautiful woman in a patriarchal society who is also a member of a highly patriarchal organization -not- to experience harassment. Thank you for sharing your story Camille. I’m so glad you’re free of this abusive cult. PS: I hope to learn a little about how your studies proceed. Archeology in England-wow!! I love watching Digging For Britain & specials by Dr. Alice Roberts-I won’t go on. Just say this is very exciting & I’m excited for you!
I hope all goes well for you in England x I love archeology myself, and living near colchester, the oldest recorded town in the UK, its certainly interesting
I don't know how I will ever overcoming my suicidal depression while I'm still married to an active, believing member (been through more medication than I can count, therapists, ECT). It is absolutely Church related, and with the continual reminders... I can't get away. But my family depends on me for their support, and I genuinely love my wife.
This interview was very comforting to me as a woman and as an inactive member of the church. It made me feel like my own personal trauma was not trivial and silly like I was made to believe. Here is a woman who worked so hard to keep her testimony alive, and was still brave enough to call it quits. She did what was right for her, and as simple as that sounds, it can seriously be a huge challenge for a woman in the church to put her own well being first. Much love.
This interview was FANTASTIC!! Camille is such a beautiful and intelligent person; she will go on to do great things! Also, Carah leading the interview was absolutely the right choice.
Camille, you are such an articulate and strong women. Especially strong when sharing your emotions. Thank you for telling your story. I hope you find peace as you transition into the next chapter of your life. You deserve all the good things and the beauty. Much respect.❤️
From Julia: Camille you are a lovely wonderful person, enjoy your chai and your school and health insurance and freedom from all the harmful church culture, ideas, employment and everything that you endured. You nailed it when you said you saw them consistently preaching to minister to the one but never saw them actually doing it.
Camille! I hope you see this. Carrah and John, make she gets this. I viscerally understood when you said "I didn't want to hurt anyone by not living." A couple of times, that's been my only reason for continuing. I don't know you personally, but I saw you. I understood. I've been there. I wish all the best for your going forward and hope you have a fulfilling and wonderful experience in life. Thank you for sharing your story and having the courage to be vulnerable.
Camille, I'm hoping you are doing ok. I was really touched by your story and I wish you all the best. Be happy or sad, but I hope you won't be depressed any more. Good luck!
Camille's story and journey are very heartbreaking but very inspirational. She's so courageous for sharing her story. I wish she finds true happiness and a partner very soon. Thank you for this interview. I can't believe I watched the entire 4 hours 😁. I am very happy for her now that she's going back to school and starting fresh.
Camille comes across as incredibly intelligent, articulate, and competent-I keep thinking she is some high powered editor or top level administrator/executive. It's so crazy that she was a bored secretary that didn't think she was "good enough" for more. I hope she moves into her talent and gifts and rocks the world!
Well put Camille. Mental health is important and valuable. Faith is an individual choice. If the church is a burden on your mental health and stressful; make time for yourself.
She is still struggling. So, so, so many single sisters in the church. It would be an extremely hard life. As a mormon woman you are limited in your opertunities of having a family. I decided the church was not a healthy place for me because I would cry every Sunday driving home from church. All my fiends were in their late 30s early 40s and single. My friends were very good mormon women. My bishop told me if I would say my prayers and read my scriptures It would make me more attractive to mormon men. She has alot to offer if she can imagin a diffrent life for herself.
I’m sorry you had to experience such loneliness and sadness. I married at 26 and had 5 children, please know that while I had a positive experience with that I was not 100% fulfilled. As a young girl I wanted to be a business woman, I didn’t want what the church told me my role would be. So I missed 20 something years of not allowing my self to develop personally. Today we’re out of the church and kids are grown, ill seek a new adventure and so can you! It will happen! You are an intelligent strong person…you can have anything you want💕
@@provetome1199 oh I left years ago and I married a nice catholicish guy. He is amazing. Our story is amazing and we are really happy togethor. My cute mormon friends are all still single. Still looking for Mr. Perfect. They will date those nonmormon boys but they will never marry them. It's wrong to wast people's time that Way. Its very harmful to both parties. Greatful I chose diffrent the whole way. I did try for many years. But recognized that feeling sad for whatever reason is unhealthy and a call for change.
If you’re single, you’re still in good company. Among other, Saint Paul the Apostle and Jesus Himself were single their whole lives. If I’m not mistaken, Mary Magdalen was as well. Mind you she was chosen to tell the Apostles that Our Lord had risen as He said he would.
This was a really great podcast on so many levels. I do think people should listen to how they feel in this moment and find what makes them truly happy and follow it. 🙂
Yup. There’s definitely a culture of shifting the blame to the person who struggles by suggesting it’s their fault for not living the gospel the way they should.
@@iambuhlockay8007 absolutely! Are you struggling and barely able to function? Well the answer is to just do more! Read more scriptures, pray more, serve more, go to the temple more, BE more. It's just not ever possible to be enough, or rest when you need rest or for leadership to just stop trying to overlay religion with mental health. The messaging should be, "if you are struggling with depression, anxiety, _______, seek help from qualified medical professions." Period. It's so toxic.
Camille, I’m so proud of you. I wish you all the luck on your new adventures in England. You’re destined for great things! You’re going to look back on your time at church headquarters and be amazed at where life has taken you since. ❤️
Camille, I can relate a bit, as someone who was really miserable and depressed in a Christian setting and this makes me so happy to hear your story and hear you have found your way out! You seem like such a lovely, smart, interesting person so I’m sure great things lie ahead for you! Have fun in the UK😊
This podcast it’s really about the LDS church business. It is all business what I have learned from this podcast as they don’t give a damn about their neighbors or their brother or sister in the gospel. Very good eye-opener.
This was an amazing interview. I have a heavy heart trying to figure out how I feel. I am a 73 year old grandma so many times I have had questions about how doctrine can change if god is talking to our leaders The black priesthood that was denied and the-cruel treatment of our gay community. I am questioning why our god would tell the church leaders that god didn’t create all of his children equally. Those two things started the erosion of my faith. And church history is unbelievable. I don’t know why I am telling this to you. I have never said this out loud I better get this figured out I feel like I have lived a lie.
Your one liner “Learning from fairytales not believe in them” is one of the best I’ve heard when I am asked why I left the church. Thank you so much for putting so many of my thoughts and emotions into something I would like to use going forward. Your story is heart breaking yet so familiar to me. Thank you for sharing.
I’m loving Carah’s voice and perspective ! What a dynamic duo ❤️. John I’m so happy you partnered with such a talented woman. As a woman myself- it’s just so empowering to see women leading the way. I think both men and women can be leaders abs you struck gold with Carah who has the incredible mind to join you in this mission! Go Mormon stories !
I’ll have to find that. I like the words. I pulled some courage for this interview from a quote by Cato: “I begin to speak only when I’m certain what I’ll isn’t better left unsaid.”
@@Camille-hk4hu What a BEAUTIFuL, articulate woman you are. Thanks for sharing your story! I predict you will find fulfillment in your life and you won’t have to settle for “second best”! Best of luck in your future endeavors!!!!!
I am a 'never-mo' and I have found Mormon Stories fascinating. The combination of Carah and John is smart. You have John's years of experience as an interviewer, and Carah's fresh younger approach plus her willingness to learn a new skill. Good job to the whole crew! Camille - good luck with your new life and studies. Archeology is fascinating and I think you will be good at it.
John and Carah, your collaboration is growing together in such a complimentary way! Nice to see Carah take the lead. Such a delicate conversation that was handled with grace and sincere sensitivity as you gently eased this young woman into a deeper dialog of disclosure. Bravo for an excellent interview!
I worked for LDS Family Services as LCSW. I learned the church has to provide equal education for minors of GA’s, Mission Presidents. This is another benefit, under some circumstances they could put their high school kids in a boarding school or other avenues (all expense paid)…Special tutors etc. I love this interview! So many changes need to be made. Women are underutilized and undermined in LDS church!
She hired for the job, if she did not feel adequately challenged, why didn’t she move on? Why did she go out to lunch with a 70 + old duffer without his wife.? In any business this is usually not encouraged if one is married. Is she really that naive? On the bathrooms, the G.A.are old men. They keep up a pretty amazing pace. The bodies of older people have their frailties. I think it is a wonderful idea for them-to have quick access to a bathroom. I do not see why this is an issue. They are popular and people want to chat with them. They are always so kind and do chat. It is wise for them to have a private exercise spot. I could imagine if one walked into my gym. They would be mobbed by well-wishers. No, a private place is a good idea. Same for a lunch room. As for the placement of offices in the corners, and each with a private bathroom, makes sense architecturally. There are lots of pipes and water and all that have to be included in a bathroom. It makes sense to stack them in a building rather than sending pipes all over the place. To me, this seems to be a lot of, “poor me,” and not enough of “empowered me.” Glad she is finding her power.
I have a devout family member that worked for a Temple President and then worked for the Facilities Department near several church history sites. She loves the church, loved the idea of working for the church and it was telling when she would tell us all the dysfunction, deception, fraud, backstabbing and unhealthyness of each work place. She eventually quit. I have tried to bring truth and enlightenment to this person and other family members. Sadly the family member who saw all the bad through employment refuses to hear anything. They told me that there is nothing I can ever say that will ever make them question or doubt the church.
Thank you Camille for speaking about how art helped you during a dark time, I picked up art journaling when I was going through a rough patch and I continue to art journal to this day to help me process my thoughts and feelings. Art can be so healing and you don’t have to have a lot or any artistic talent, it’s about the process not how good it is.
Camille is so intelligent. Imagine if she were a manager or writer for a hi-tech company, she would excel!!! At the same time she acts surprised that the Mormon church is a patriarchy, she seems naïve and brainwashed at times. I think she is amazing and glad she figured a way out of the Mormon organization. I hope she tries to move on.
Very brave Camille about dealing with the suicidal ideation . My brush with that was just before I left the church. The one thing that kept me off that path was how I felt my wife and children would feel about my selfish decision. Luckily I got some good care, pharmaceutically and therapy. Much better now. Leaving the predominant culture far behind me was the final step forward that brought me out of the darkness. I became agnostic afterwards, so much of my belief system had been based on Joseph Smith and the ‘wondrous’ things he supposedly did. I have slowly built a belief in God, and Christ but it is different than the eternal sex and pregnancy concept that Mormonism espouses. Keep up the good work Camille, you are making fantastic progress.
I've really "enjoyed" (I don't know what else to say because it doesn't feel right to enjoy someone's pain) these episodes with Camille. I really wish her all the best in the UK. Personally, I think she'll be brilliant doing whatever she really wants to do. She 's toed the line and done what was expected of her for far too long. I think the UK will suit her really well. It will also be a welcome break for her to get right away and live the joy she wants to live. She deserves that.
What we are enjoying is the light and freedom she now has.. the saddest thing of all is the people still stuck in the corporation.. people who ignore every effort to free them.
I think it’s very significant that you were working with men who were supposed to be so spiritual and close to God, and didn’t, I suppose, give you blessings for healing and let you be undermined by the system. I had a similar experience with a general authority who was not kind, helpful or supportive. One of the many bricks that fell in my faith. I’m glad you are healing and I hope your life is amazing.
Wow what an incredible interview. Camille thank you so much for sharing your story. You’re so well spoken and have given me words for things that I couldn’t. Thank you.
For me listening to this it just reminded about the complexity it is for some of us to try and weave the church religion and culture into life. I do understand recognize that for many Mormons it’s not complex and it’s beautiful and amazing. For others, some of us, it’s very complex and difficult to just live life and believe and adhere to the church’s expectations and culture. My heart is heavy for her and relates more than she could ever know. The truth for me is that regardless if it’s true or not it didn’t work for me. I receive the opposite benefits that those that love the church claim to receive. I received so much sorrow, confusion, shame, depression. Granted it’s not all the churches fault by any means, in fact it’s my parents more than anyone but full truth is my responsibility. My life my health my responsibility. However, I’ve learned that I could only do what I could with what I was given and taught. Just so difficult. I worked for the church for 9 years developing the financial software and I can’t even begin to share how much bigotry, discrimination and non Christlike behavior I experienced and witnessed
John, have you talked about your experience working for church headquarters and the GA candidate tracking? That would be interesting to learn more about
"COVID gave me the chance to quietly slip away". I wonder how many millions of LDS church members did the same? This would make an interesting episode if there is any way to get a handle on the statistics for church attendance pre and post pandemic.
@@thomasrobertson9643 - its all part of Mormon god's plan to test his saints by causing a world-wide pandemic and then seeing who will risk their lives by continuing to attend large social gatherings in an enclosed space where people are all breathing the same air
I guess I'm in that group. The nail in the coffin was "masks are Christlike" and now "The jab is Christlike." What about agency??? So much of how they handled COVID was completely out there. I think if I was in clergy, I wouldn't want to ever make a comment on something so controversial. That cinched it for me. There is more, of course but COVID nailed it for me.
Having worked in NPO’s for way too long, depression was par for the course, for creative types, like myself. Thankfully I broke away, even without another job set up, and it was the best decision I ever made. Gave me freedom to get my head straight, and learn how to just trust myself, and trust that the Universe would provide opportunities, and all I had to do was approach opportunities/hardships as adventures, instead of crises. I have faith in Camille to make sense of her past, and emerge fully chill, and fully clear in the vision for who she is and what she actually wants, and not worrying about other’s expectations. That said, thank you John, many years ago, for doing a pod on scrupulosity. It saved me from years of depression and unhealthy actions toward other people.
I think, God did answer her prayers. He brought her no confirmation about the churches authenticity. To me, that tells me the church is not true, and he wanted her to know it. We are so conditioned to wait for the warm, fuzzy feelings of truthfulness, that when we don’t get it, we think we are unfaithful. When in fact, that is the answer, and God loves us enough to tell us the truth. May God bless you all to continue on your journeys of truth, love and happiness.
I feel so sad at how underutilized Camille felt; it’s sucks to feel like you’re not valued R your job. I didn’t realize I was dealing with depression until years into a boss who made me feel similar. So glad she managed to leave that position and is going onward with school and life; way too brilliant and motivated to be stuck there. And definitely don’t let them shame you for being single instead of a “Mother in Zion.” If you ever find someone, let it be someone worthy of you, not bowing to pressures.
Carah, I agree with other comments. Especially in the latter part of the interview, you had a natural flow of questions like a pro interviewer. John’s deeper probing here and there was great. Killer job, all! Mormon Stories is as rockin’ as ever 👍
I realize I’m commenting quite a bit after the fact here (i only recently found Mormon Stories). But I feel compelled to add my 2 cents. I worked at the church office building YEARS ago. I left the church soon after working there. I left because of the things I observed there. It was before any of the things everyone talks about here. It was very interesting and I have quite a few stories of my own. I m fascinated by these interviews.
My BYU roommate got the highest grades in accounting. Was hired by the LDS Corporation, and paid less than her male counterparts, even those with lesser qualifications. She was told it was because the men were the breadwinners for their family. My roommate WAS the breadwinner for her family. Gender inequities at Temple Square were out in the open and justified in the 80s. Nothing’s changed.
Man, what is wrong with these creepy old men. I've had too many similar experiences as well, most of them when I was a teenager. I too was, and am, a nerd and didn't get much attention from boys my own age when I was a teenager. One of the worst was an old man that was an investigator at church. He tried to abduct me from the church building. I was 13 and he knocked on the door while I was in young men and young women's and asked the teacher if he could see me in the hallway. He asked for me by name, because as I walked into sacrament late that day, the bishop announced my name from the pulpit and asked people to pray for me as I was experiencing health issues at the time. I looked to the teacher, a man, for help but he said OK and let me go out the door. Luckily my brother was also in the class and I was on edge so I left the class door open while in the hallway. He started telling me that he was from another church and he could heal me if I went with him. The class was very close to one of the exit doors on the side of the building where no one would have noticed if I left with him. I knew something was wrong (this wasn't my first rodeo with a creepy old man), told him "no", and slipped quickly back into the classroom. I told my brother to go get mom. He did and all three of us started to leave. The old man followed us and walked right up to my side of the car. My amazing mom stood between us and yelled at him to go away. We were able to leave safely, but I never felt very safe at church after that. I later saw that investigator holding small children of members, little girls. I hated seeing it. Itmade me feel like the church cared more about converting people than protecting its members. It haunted me for a long time because I lived in a small town with plenty of old man creeps like him. Thank you for sharing your story, Camille. It means so much.
Camille thank you so much for sharing your story, I'm so sorry the church treated you in a non loving way. I wish you all the best as you figure out your life now. I hear from you that things are much better now, and only looking upward and onward.
I really appreciated this interview, both parts. I'm really inspired with how Camille found solace (a different form of spirit?) in art and literature. Best of luck in your studies, and your books, Camille! I hope one of your archeology classes takes you mudlarking in the Thames--I have always wanted to do that.
In 1965 during my mission in Switzerland, I had a face-to-face interview with Ezra Taft Benson, then the president of the European Mission (Frankfurt). Having had good experience with student mental health at The University of Chicago, I directly asked for mental health counseling. After looking deeply into my eyes, he said “you look like the picture of health to me.” That was part of my descent into the depression where my greatest fear was that I would wake up the next day. Fortunately, I soon had a new mission president who brought me into the mission office as his mission and personal secretary, where I could feel effective. Today, 59 years later, I made the same counseling request of my primary care physician just before hearing that part of this interview-what a remarkable coincidence. I hope to get treatment somewhere to work on my liberation. Thank you Camille for the encouragement of your example!
I worked with Camille in the Church offices. She was such a wonderful friend and associate to all! She is and was very respected by all my fellow colleagues. She is very bright and articulate and loaded with talents and skills. Camille is the type of friend we all should seek after! We do love and appreciated Camille!
I am a robot, believe what I say.
Camille's episodes are the first ones I viewed in full after I made the decision to leave activity in the church. She is smart, articulate, and beautiful - far too good to be some schlub's 'second chance'. She reminds me of my oldest daughter, who has two engineering degrees and works in aerospace manufacturing. Her experience was very VERY helpful to me while I was still processing my fairly traumatic faith journey out of the church. Thank you Camille for sharing your experience. It was so helpful to me.
The fact that she is going on such an adventure to the UK and starting fresh, makes me so incredibly happy for her. Her story is such a triumph over oppression.
Oppression. Gimme a break.
I enjoyed and appreciated every minute of both parts of this interview with Camille Jones. I am a former Mormon who left the church in 2016 and have been binge watching Mormon Stories over the last two months. Its taken me six years as a non member to become less angry enough to face all of the things wrong with the church and begin to process my eventual loss of faith. I was a Bishop for 5 years and served on the High Council for many years. My wife was the first in our family to leave the church, followed eventually by all six of my adult children, and lastly by my own complete and utter loss of testimony and belief in the church. The work you are doing with Mormon Stories has helped me to understand and process the last 30 years of my life and try to find healing and meaning. Thank you for your time and sacrifice. Please keep up this important work. Great Job to you both!
I love how thoughtful and deliberate Camille is with her speech. I aspire to that level of linguistic precision!
Yes! My favorite part was “ignorance doesn’t bless people.” 48:48
She is super smart. I adore her.
Yes ! If I were still in the software business, where precise thinking is a job requirement, I would hire her to do SOMETHING. Such people are rare even among the well educated.
I noticed the same thing. Language and words do matter.
Camille…I’m almost 30 years exmo. I resigned my membership a long time ago and have helped a number of people through the resignation process. The most important thing to know is that if you’ve sent the church your resignation letter, they can’t excommunicate you…you already quit and they can’t fire you. If the church makes the attempt, makes plans to convene a court and demand that you submit, they are putting themselves in an actionable position. Back in the ‘90s, I was told by an attorney (one of those who I assisted in walking through the resignation process had retained the attorney as the church attempted to convene a court over their resignation) that once you resign, you’re no longer subject to the church’s authority or their processes.
For what it’s worth, I’m proud of you for not only having the courage to leave the church and resign but to also go very public about why you left.
I’ve lived most of my adult life on the west coast and not in a place where mormon culture permeates every aspect of virtually everything around one. I can’t begin to imagine how difficult it was for you to go through this as a Utah mormon. I’m glad you did escape and that it was well into the 21st century. There are so many more resources and so much support available that one doesn’t have to do this alone as was the case in most of my exit story.
I’m excited for you that you get to study abroad. I think you’ll find that outside of church culture and especially in Europe in general, there are a fair number of single guys in your age group who’ve never married because there was not the pressure to marry and start a family in their early 20’s. I’m confident you’ll find a guy, a “first chance” guy that’ll be perfect for you and you for him. What an adventure you’re embarking on.
I hope you do a followup with John a few years from now as a wholly positive affirmation that there is a life worth living post mormon, contrary to what the church tells its members.
What an amazing, brave, articulate, intelligent beautiful, vulnerable person.
Camille has a very pleasant character. No drama, modest and controlled. When she overcomes her depression, she will live a rich and full life.
I love the way John gets the most information from the guests to give a complete understanding to the viewer beyond just their individual stories. No stone unturned.
Camille's smile lights up her face so much, it's lovely to see. I hope her life continues to improve.
Thanks for sharing, Camille!
Carah is getting to be a very good interviewer. I’m enjoying her style and insight more all the time. Great episode!
I enjoy her interviewing much more!!
I agree, I enjoy her more every interview ❤️
I agree! Great job 😊
She's improved greatly, very impressive, kinda boring before...excellent work!
😊c😊c. N😊🎉
I was an RM, former Ordinance Worker, from an Orthodox Mormon family and parents in high up callings, and current WML in my YSA ward when I decided to leave the church four years ago. I am also currently finishing up my BA as a 26 year old (not 30s but still older than many of my fellow classmates). I appreciated Camille sharing her story and wish her good luck in school.
Camille's painful lessons of life will add to a bright future. I am so impressed with her story. Thank you Camille for sharing.
It’s so sad how the church disempowered Camille by underutilizing her. “I didn’t feel highly capable because I was sitting there feeling like a waste of space” gave me chills, as did “The best I felt was when I got hired.” Hearing about the steady decline in a woman’s self-confidence and wellbeing because of a patriarchal organization is so sad. Also I CANNOT BELIEVE SHE DIDN’T EARN ENOUGH TO RENT AN APARTMENT DOWNTOWN. Ugh.
From an institution that is used to sucking everything out of people what would you expect?
That broke my heart when she said that :(
Oh yes....how truly sad this is, a horrible tale of being under used. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? “Sad” is the boarder crisis in the US! “Sad” is the Biden debacle in Afghanistan!
Isis removing the brain of a pregnant woman while her 13 yr old son was forced to watch is what gave me “chills”. Good grief Shallow Shelley!
@@BrendaW6263 what disease do you have that forces your brain to think of politics 24/7?
I can’t understand why you would stay in a job you don’t like? I’ve had many jobs in my life, and if I was this unhappy with my job I would go and get another one, the employer isn’t there for my benefit, I’m there to work and to be productive, and if that’s not happening for you then Why didn’t you just quit ????. It sounds like you just expected them to baby you instead of just moving on to a new job ? Trying to understand why you stayed so long ? Anyway hope things get better for you and good luck in the future.
I really respect you, Camille. You are so intelligent, and I give you all the props for taking charge of your life. I wish you all the happiness!
This was the first Mormon Story I have ever heard. Hearing Camille’s story was extremely validating- I was raised in a devout Mormon family, And I left the Church in 1994 ish. I didn’t have access to post- Mo community and i always felt as though i was fighting for validation of my experience. Camille did that through her honesty and commitment to telling the Truth. I’ve often said the Church uses boredom as a weapon - and it almost literally killed this poor woman. Thank you, Camille, for your bravery, and I wish you all the best in your studies! Ps I shared this video with my Mormon family as my own act of “courage “.
My heart goes out to Camille. She felt so lonely. Now she seems much happier, and I sincerely wish her the best with my whole heart. Love.
I so feel for Camille--I was one of those 'older singles," and didn't marry until in my early 30s. I wish her peace and healing and new opportunities for education and love!
Fantastic episode.....Camille's thoughts on her SI and "failed expectations" spoke directly to me. I have been in that painful place, and have come through it. Its a scary place, but her bravery really hit home for me, and validates that I wasn't alone. Thank you so much. Camille!
Camille, my "crystal ball" tells me you're on the precipice of AMAZING! I'm so impressed by you! Wishing you thousands of beautiful FIRST'S! John and Carah- please bring Camille back 🙏 So excited for the continuation of this story!
“Dull and not quite what you expected “ my sentiments two months into my conversion Excellent interview! Thank you 😊
Can you expand?
@@charlesmendeley9823 no informed consent during the conversion process. If I would have had all the facts during those meetings I would have never converted. Never. Church history, good , bad and indifferent is important to disclose when it comes to wanting someone to turn over their salvation to the organization.
What a wonderful, courageous woman Camille is. Bless her for putting herself out there in this way for others benefit. I wish her all the best and will be praying that she connects with a higher power that cares for her as she deserves.
Thank you so much for sharing! This was beautiful. I know Camille said she did not want to cry, but I'm so thankful that she was vulnerable and honest about how she was really feeling. Thank you so much!
Really appreciated this interview. I went through a major depressive episode before I left the church as well and also didn't realize I needed help. It was healing to hear I wasn't the only one. I did eventually seek professional help as well.
Camille you got yourself through your darkest hour. You are the source for all good things in your life. You are not dependent on any god, man, or other person for your self worth and happiness. Oh, and your smile is infectious.
Kara is an awesome interviewer and so empathetic! I am so glad she is a part of the Mormon Stories. Her authenticity is fabulous and I love hearing about her sweet family.
Too nice! Thanks!
Sorry I blotched the spelling of your name😊
Having the two interviewers (John and carah) makes the conversations more interesting and dynamic, I’ve been enjoying it
What an incredible person…… 💙 Camille, I am rooting for you and applaud you for coming on Mormon Stories to share your story with the world. We see you. We see what was done. And your name goes in the history books as one of the brave who has come forward. xxxx
Loved this interview!!! Brave of Camille! Nobody is perfect, listeners stop the rude comments!!! John and Kara are incredible and I love all that they share on this platform ❤️😍
Really enjoyed this segment with Camille. Such a gentle soul that exudes so much potential. I hope she can grow, achieve and be blessed with many rainbows ahead. She deserves good things.
If the Me Too movement has done anything, it’s brought to light to those who haven’t experienced it just how much sexual harassment & abuse women experience.
Camille didn’t do anything to illicit predatory behavior of men. Nothing at all. It would be next to impossible for a beautiful woman in a patriarchal society who is also a member of a highly patriarchal organization -not- to experience harassment.
Thank you for sharing your story Camille. I’m so glad you’re free of this abusive cult.
PS: I hope to learn a little about how your studies proceed. Archeology in England-wow!! I love watching Digging For Britain & specials by Dr. Alice Roberts-I won’t go on. Just say this is very exciting & I’m excited for you!
I hope all goes well for you in England x
I love archeology myself, and living near colchester, the oldest recorded town in the UK, its certainly interesting
It's sad to see such an intelligent, gifted woman relegated to the piano bench her whole life when obviously she aspires and is capable of more.
I don't know how I will ever overcoming my suicidal depression while I'm still married to an active, believing member (been through more medication than I can count, therapists, ECT). It is absolutely Church related, and with the continual reminders... I can't get away. But my family depends on me for their support, and I genuinely love my wife.
dande: Are things better in your life?
This interview was very comforting to me as a woman and as an inactive member of the church. It made me feel like my own personal trauma was not trivial and silly like I was made to believe. Here is a woman who worked so hard to keep her testimony alive, and was still brave enough to call it quits. She did what was right for her, and as simple as that sounds, it can seriously be a huge challenge for a woman in the church to put her own well being first. Much love.
Finally, she's elegant, charming, intelligent, and sincere. She deserves all the best in her life.
This interview was FANTASTIC!! Camille is such a beautiful and intelligent person; she will go on to do great things! Also, Carah leading the interview was absolutely the right choice.
I am so happy for you Camille. You are being true to yourself. You have so much to offer the world. Every blessing to you.
I Love Love Love Camille's smile , Priceless !
Camille, you are such an articulate and strong women. Especially strong when sharing your emotions. Thank you for telling your story. I hope you find peace as you transition into the next chapter of your life. You deserve all the good things and the beauty. Much respect.❤️
From Julia: Camille you are a lovely wonderful person, enjoy your chai and your school and health insurance and freedom from all the harmful church culture, ideas, employment and everything that you endured. You nailed it when you said you saw them consistently preaching to minister to the one but never saw them actually doing it.
Camille! I hope you see this. Carrah and John, make she gets this. I viscerally understood when you said "I didn't want to hurt anyone by not living." A couple of times, that's been my only reason for continuing. I don't know you personally, but I saw you. I understood. I've been there. I wish all the best for your going forward and hope you have a fulfilling and wonderful experience in life. Thank you for sharing your story and having the courage to be vulnerable.
Thank you! I’m glad we’re both still here. It kept us going.
@@Camille-hk4hu Couraeous Camille, you’re wonderful! Thanks for sharing your story!
Camille, I related to you in so many ways even though I never worked for the church. Wow! You are amazing and thank you for sharing your truth!
Camille, I'm hoping you are doing ok. I was really touched by your story and I wish you all the best. Be happy or sad, but I hope you won't be depressed any more. Good luck!
Camille's story and journey are very heartbreaking but very inspirational. She's so courageous for sharing her story. I wish she finds true happiness and a partner very soon. Thank you for this interview. I can't believe I watched the entire 4 hours 😁. I am very happy for her now that she's going back to school and starting fresh.
Camille comes across as incredibly intelligent, articulate, and competent-I keep thinking she is some high powered editor or top level administrator/executive. It's so crazy that she was a bored secretary that didn't think she was "good enough" for more. I hope she moves into her talent and gifts and rocks the world!
Well put Camille. Mental health is important and valuable. Faith is an individual choice.
If the church is a burden on your mental health and stressful; make time for yourself.
She's is so intelligent and strong. Very fascinating story and woman hopefully she inspires more to come forward.
I want to thank you for sharing these stories! I can relate to nearly all of them! So happy for Camille and I wish her
much happiness!
What an amazing Woman and interview! I was captivated the whole time, couldn't stop watching!
Thank you Camille for sharing your story. Your courage is inspiring
She is still struggling. So, so, so many single sisters in the church. It would be an extremely hard life. As a mormon woman you are limited in your opertunities of having a family. I decided the church was not a healthy place for me because I would cry every Sunday driving home from church. All my fiends were in their late 30s early 40s and single. My friends were very good mormon women. My bishop told me if I would say my prayers and read my scriptures It would make me more attractive to mormon men. She has alot to offer if she can imagin a diffrent life for herself.
I’m sorry you had to experience such loneliness and sadness. I married at 26 and had 5 children, please know that while I had a positive experience with that I was not 100% fulfilled. As a young girl I wanted to be a business woman, I didn’t want what the church told me my role would be. So I missed 20 something years of not allowing my self to develop personally. Today we’re out of the church and kids are grown, ill seek a new adventure and so can you! It will happen! You are an intelligent strong person…you can have anything you want💕
@@provetome1199 oh I left years ago and I married a nice catholicish guy. He is amazing. Our story is amazing and we are really happy togethor. My cute mormon friends are all still single. Still looking for Mr. Perfect. They will date those nonmormon boys but they will never marry them. It's wrong to wast people's time that
Way. Its very harmful to both parties. Greatful I chose diffrent the whole way. I did try for many years. But recognized that feeling sad for whatever reason is unhealthy and a call for change.
If you’re single, you’re still in good company. Among other, Saint Paul the Apostle and Jesus Himself were single their whole lives. If I’m not mistaken, Mary Magdalen was as well. Mind you she was chosen to tell the Apostles that Our Lord had risen as He said he would.
This was a really great podcast on so many levels. I do think people should listen to how they feel in this moment and find what makes them truly happy and follow it. 🙂
The church is such a hard place to be when you're struggling with depression and anxiety.
I agree! This is why the top leaders within the church want in order to take control of all the vulnerable people in each ward.
As somebody dealing with that now, I wholeheartedly agree.
In my opinion the church offers false hopes which just keeps the depression going.
Yup. There’s definitely a culture of shifting the blame to the person who struggles by suggesting it’s their fault for not living the gospel the way they should.
@@iambuhlockay8007 absolutely! Are you struggling and barely able to function? Well the answer is to just do more! Read more scriptures, pray more, serve more, go to the temple more, BE more. It's just not ever possible to be enough, or rest when you need rest or for leadership to just stop trying to overlay religion with mental health. The messaging should be, "if you are struggling with depression, anxiety, _______, seek help from qualified medical professions." Period. It's so toxic.
What an amazing interview. Never been a Mormon but this podcast is still enlightening in so many ways.
Camille, I’m so proud of you. I wish you all the luck on your new adventures in England. You’re destined for great things! You’re going to look back on your time at church headquarters and be amazed at where life has taken you since. ❤️
This two part interview is sad and disturbing. A very difficult interview. Camille is such a brave soul. Handled with care and SO enlightening.
Camille, I can relate a bit, as someone who was really miserable and depressed in a Christian setting and this makes me so happy to hear your story and hear you have found your way out! You seem like such a lovely, smart, interesting person so I’m sure great things lie ahead for you! Have fun in the UK😊
This podcast it’s really about the LDS church business. It is all business what I have learned from this podcast as they don’t give a damn about their neighbors or their brother or sister in the gospel. Very good eye-opener.
This was an amazing interview. I have a heavy heart trying to figure out how I feel. I am a 73 year old grandma so many times I have had questions about how doctrine can change if god is talking to our leaders The black priesthood that was denied and the-cruel treatment of our gay community. I am questioning why our god would tell the church leaders that god didn’t create all of his children equally. Those two things started the erosion of my faith. And church history is unbelievable. I don’t know why I am telling this to you. I have never said this out loud I better get this figured out I feel like I have lived a lie.
Your one liner “Learning from fairytales not believe in them” is one of the best I’ve heard when I am asked why I left the church. Thank you so much for putting so many of my thoughts and emotions into something I would like to use going forward. Your story is heart breaking yet so familiar to me. Thank you for sharing.
This was so good. I wish Camille all the best in life
I’m loving Carah’s voice and perspective ! What a dynamic duo ❤️. John I’m so happy you partnered with such a talented woman. As a woman myself- it’s just so empowering to see women leading the way. I think both men and women can be leaders abs you struck gold with Carah who has the incredible mind to join you in this mission! Go Mormon stories !
Camille,
You still have a lot of fight in you. I know this because you are perfectly articulate in this video.
After I resigned as an LDS missionary, to quote my father, "I was beyond words" ... which was a shock to all who knew me because beforehand I could talk like a radio host.
I am inspired by a reoccurring speech by U.S. Army Colonel Hal Moore: "3 strikes and you are not out. There is always something you can do to improve the situation."
Your survivor story is inspirational. My mom was inspired by these words
by Helen Reddy:
I am woman, hear me roar
In numbers too big to ignore
And I know too much to go back an' pretend
'Cause I've heard it all before
And I've been down there on the floor
No one's ever gonna keep me down again
Oh yes I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to, I can do anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am woman
[ ... ]
Songwriters: Ray Burton / Helen Reddy
I Am Woman lyrics © Buggerlugs Music Co., Irving Music, Inc.
I’ll have to find that. I like the words. I pulled some courage for this interview from a quote by Cato: “I begin to speak only when I’m certain what I’ll isn’t better left unsaid.”
@@Camille-hk4hu What a BEAUTIFuL, articulate woman you are. Thanks for sharing your story! I predict you will find fulfillment in your life and you won’t have to settle for “second best”! Best of luck in your future endeavors!!!!!
I am a 'never-mo' and I have found Mormon Stories fascinating. The combination of Carah and John is smart. You have John's years of experience as an interviewer, and Carah's fresh younger approach plus her willingness to learn a new skill. Good job to the whole crew!
Camille - good luck with your new life and studies. Archeology is fascinating and I think you will be good at it.
John and Carah, your collaboration is growing together in such a complimentary way! Nice to see Carah take the lead. Such a delicate conversation that was handled with grace and sincere sensitivity as you gently eased this young woman into a deeper dialog of disclosure. Bravo for an excellent interview!
Outstanding interview... thank you Camille Jones
I worked for LDS Family Services as LCSW. I learned the church has to provide equal education for minors of GA’s, Mission Presidents. This is another benefit, under some circumstances they could put their high school kids in a boarding school or other avenues (all expense paid)…Special tutors etc.
I love this interview! So many changes need to be made. Women are underutilized and undermined in LDS church!
She hired for the job, if she did not feel adequately challenged, why didn’t she move on? Why did she go out to lunch with a 70 + old duffer without his wife.? In any business this is usually not encouraged if one is married. Is she really that naive? On the bathrooms, the G.A.are old men. They keep up a pretty amazing pace. The bodies of older people have their frailties. I think it is a wonderful idea for them-to have quick access to a bathroom. I do not see why this is an issue. They are popular and people want to chat with them. They are always so kind and do chat. It is wise for them to have a private exercise spot. I could imagine if one walked into my gym. They would be mobbed by well-wishers. No, a private place is a good idea. Same for a lunch room. As for the placement of offices in the corners, and each with a private bathroom, makes sense architecturally. There are lots of pipes and water and all that have to be included in a bathroom. It makes sense to stack them in a building rather than sending pipes all over the place.
To me, this seems to be a lot of, “poor me,” and not enough of “empowered me.” Glad she is finding her power.
I have a devout family member that worked for a Temple President and then worked for the Facilities Department near several church history sites. She loves the church, loved the idea of working for the church and it was telling when she would tell us all the dysfunction, deception, fraud, backstabbing and unhealthyness of each work place. She eventually quit. I have tried to bring truth and enlightenment to this person and other family members. Sadly the family member who saw all the bad through employment refuses to hear anything. They told me that there is nothing I can ever say that will ever make them question or doubt the church.
Isn't it bewildering how TBMs can compartmentalize like that?
ABSOLUTELY bewildering
Thank you Camille for speaking about how art helped you during a dark time, I picked up art journaling when I was going through a rough patch and I continue to art journal to this day to help me process my thoughts and feelings. Art can be so healing and you don’t have to have a lot or any artistic talent, it’s about the process not how good it is.
This girl is so brave. Been through hell working for the church.
What was your experience?
Camille is so intelligent. Imagine if she were a manager or writer for a hi-tech company, she would excel!!! At the same time she acts surprised that the Mormon church is a patriarchy, she seems naïve and brainwashed at times. I think she is amazing and glad she figured a way out of the Mormon organization. I hope she tries to move on.
As a woman who worked for the church magazines, I second how toxic and unequal (and unsafe) a workplace it is for women.
Very brave Camille about dealing with the suicidal ideation . My brush with that was just before I left the church. The one thing that kept me off that path was how I felt my wife and children would feel about my selfish decision. Luckily I got some good care, pharmaceutically and therapy. Much better now. Leaving the predominant culture far behind me was the final step forward that brought me out of the darkness. I became agnostic afterwards, so much of my belief system had been based on Joseph Smith and the ‘wondrous’ things he supposedly did. I have slowly built a belief in God, and Christ but it is different than the eternal sex and pregnancy concept that Mormonism espouses. Keep up the good work Camille, you are making fantastic progress.
I've really "enjoyed" (I don't know what else to say because it doesn't feel right to enjoy someone's pain) these episodes with Camille. I really wish her all the best in the UK. Personally, I think she'll be brilliant doing whatever she really wants to do. She 's toed the line and done what was expected of her for far too long. I think the UK will suit her really well. It will also be a welcome break for her to get right away and live the joy she wants to live. She deserves that.
What we are enjoying is the light and freedom she now has.. the saddest thing of all is the people still stuck in the corporation.. people who ignore every effort to free them.
I think it’s very significant that you were working with men who were supposed to be so spiritual and close to God, and didn’t, I suppose, give you blessings for healing and let you be undermined by the system. I had a similar experience with a general authority who was not kind, helpful or supportive. One of the many bricks that fell in my faith. I’m glad you are healing and I hope your life is amazing.
Great production on this one. Camille was so pleasant to listen to. I wish her the best in her journey ahead. Interviewing was sincere and heartfelt.
The interview lady is really good and what a beautiful voice. Camile is ver brave and showed great integrity and respect
Wow what an incredible interview. Camille thank you so much for sharing your story. You’re so well spoken and have given me words for things that I couldn’t. Thank you.
What an intelligent, beautiful, brave woman! Really inspiring!
For me listening to this it just reminded about the complexity it is for some of us to try and weave the church religion and culture into life. I do understand recognize that for many Mormons it’s not complex and it’s beautiful and amazing. For others, some of us, it’s very complex and difficult to just live life and believe and adhere to the church’s expectations and culture. My heart is heavy for her and relates more than she could ever know. The truth for me is that regardless if it’s true or not it didn’t work for me. I receive the opposite benefits that those that love the church claim to receive. I received so much sorrow, confusion, shame, depression. Granted it’s not all the churches fault by any means, in fact it’s my parents more than anyone but full truth is my responsibility. My life my health my responsibility. However, I’ve learned that I could only do what I could with what I was given and taught. Just so difficult. I worked for the church for 9 years developing the financial software and I can’t even begin to share how much bigotry, discrimination and non Christlike behavior I experienced and witnessed
Thank you Camille, very useful video for Italian church members. Thanks again.
Camille, I hope your life in the UK brings you so much joy.
The letting her go, the underpaying. Actually being fired. I can’t imagine all the pain. Unbelievable. I hope she is doing MUCH better now.
John, have you talked about your experience working for church headquarters and the GA candidate tracking? That would be interesting to learn more about
"COVID gave me the chance to quietly slip away". I wonder how many millions of LDS church members did the same? This would make an interesting episode if there is any way to get a handle on the statistics for church attendance pre and post pandemic.
I’ve seen it
@@thomasrobertson9643 - its all part of Mormon god's plan to test his saints by causing a world-wide pandemic and then seeing who will risk their lives by continuing to attend large social gatherings in an enclosed space where people are all breathing the same air
I’ve got 2 family members that have and I know another that is questioning.
Yes 🙌
I guess I'm in that group. The nail in the coffin was "masks are Christlike" and now "The jab is Christlike." What about agency??? So much of how they handled COVID was completely out there. I think if I was in clergy, I wouldn't want to ever make a comment on something so controversial. That cinched it for me. There is more, of course but COVID nailed it for me.
Having worked in NPO’s for way too long, depression was par for the course, for creative types, like myself. Thankfully I broke away, even without another job set up, and it was the best decision I ever made. Gave me freedom to get my head straight, and learn how to just trust myself, and trust that the Universe would provide opportunities, and all I had to do was approach opportunities/hardships as adventures, instead of crises. I have faith in Camille to make sense of her past, and emerge fully chill, and fully clear in the vision for who she is and what she actually wants, and not worrying about other’s expectations. That said, thank you John, many years ago, for doing a pod on scrupulosity. It saved me from years of depression and unhealthy actions toward other people.
Thank you so much for this interview. Enjoyed this a lot! Inspiring and edifying listening to her story.
Camille is a smart woman. Any organization will be lucky to employ her someday.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻. So good! I loved the last episode summing it up, but I loved to hear it unbroken and not interjected with explanations. Bravo!!
I think, God did answer her prayers. He brought her no confirmation about the churches authenticity. To me, that tells me the church is not true, and he wanted her to know it. We are so conditioned to wait for the warm, fuzzy feelings of truthfulness, that when we don’t get it, we think we are unfaithful. When in fact, that is the answer, and God loves us enough to tell us the truth. May God bless you all to continue on your journeys of truth, love and happiness.
I feel so sad at how underutilized Camille felt; it’s sucks to feel like you’re not valued R your job. I didn’t realize I was dealing with depression until years into a boss who made me feel similar. So glad she managed to leave that position and is going onward with school and life; way too brilliant and motivated to be stuck there.
And definitely don’t let them shame you for being single instead of a “Mother in Zion.” If you ever find someone, let it be someone worthy of you, not bowing to pressures.
Carah, I agree with other comments. Especially in the latter part of the interview, you had a natural flow of questions like a pro interviewer. John’s deeper probing here and there was great. Killer job, all! Mormon Stories is as rockin’ as ever 👍
I realize I’m commenting quite a bit after the fact here (i only recently found Mormon Stories). But I feel compelled to add my 2 cents. I worked at the church office building YEARS ago. I left the church soon after working there. I left because of the things I observed there. It was before any of the things everyone talks about here. It was very interesting and I have quite a few stories of my own. I m fascinated by these interviews.
My BYU roommate got the highest grades in accounting. Was hired by the LDS Corporation, and paid less than her male counterparts, even those with lesser qualifications. She was told it was because the men were the breadwinners for their family. My roommate WAS the breadwinner for her family. Gender inequities at Temple Square were out in the open and justified in the 80s. Nothing’s changed.
I’m so sorry you had to go through all of this! You are a smart and amazing person! ❤️❤️❤️
I just want to hug her heart ❤️
Thank you for speaking. So much of what you said.... I FELT. Thank you 💗
Man, what is wrong with these creepy old men. I've had too many similar experiences as well, most of them when I was a teenager. I too was, and am, a nerd and didn't get much attention from boys my own age when I was a teenager. One of the worst was an old man that was an investigator at church. He tried to abduct me from the church building. I was 13 and he knocked on the door while I was in young men and young women's and asked the teacher if he could see me in the hallway. He asked for me by name, because as I walked into sacrament late that day, the bishop announced my name from the pulpit and asked people to pray for me as I was experiencing health issues at the time. I looked to the teacher, a man, for help but he said OK and let me go out the door. Luckily my brother was also in the class and I was on edge so I left the class door open while in the hallway. He started telling me that he was from another church and he could heal me if I went with him. The class was very close to one of the exit doors on the side of the building where no one would have noticed if I left with him. I knew something was wrong (this wasn't my first rodeo with a creepy old man), told him "no", and slipped quickly back into the classroom. I told my brother to go get mom. He did and all three of us started to leave. The old man followed us and walked right up to my side of the car. My amazing mom stood between us and yelled at him to go away. We were able to leave safely, but I never felt very safe at church after that. I later saw that investigator holding small children of members, little girls. I hated seeing it. Itmade me feel like the church cared more about converting people than protecting its members. It haunted me for a long time because I lived in a small town with plenty of old man creeps like him. Thank you for sharing your story, Camille. It means so much.
Camille thank you so much for sharing your story, I'm so sorry the church treated you in a non loving way. I wish you all the best as you figure out your life now. I hear from you that things are much better now, and only looking upward and onward.
I really appreciated this interview, both parts. I'm really inspired with how Camille found solace (a different form of spirit?) in art and literature. Best of luck in your studies, and your books, Camille! I hope one of your archeology classes takes you mudlarking in the Thames--I have always wanted to do that.
In 1965 during my mission in Switzerland, I had a face-to-face interview with Ezra Taft Benson, then the president of the European Mission (Frankfurt). Having had good experience with student mental health at The University of Chicago, I directly asked for mental health counseling. After looking deeply into my eyes, he said “you look like the picture of health to me.” That was part of my descent into the depression where my greatest fear was that I would wake up the next day. Fortunately, I soon had a new mission president who brought me into the mission office as his mission and personal secretary, where I could feel effective. Today, 59 years later, I made the same counseling request of my primary care physician just before hearing that part of this interview-what a remarkable coincidence. I hope to get treatment somewhere to work on my liberation. Thank you Camille for the encouragement of your example!