This one... is a bit wacky, I really hope you enjoy!!! I don't normally say this, but I personally feel this video is way better with headphones, though of course its not a requirement lmao! DONT YOU DARE GO HOLLOW FRIENDS! ALSO MAY THE FOURTH BE WITH YOU! The discord for the channel: discord.gg/xv8t5bFSzd Fromsoftware Lore: ua-cam.com/play/PL0yXJ0iCx7YILcJCNgSzYEmOdMbeE2CFx.html&si=W13ip_eC82Hk_w2h Elden Mythos: ua-cam.com/play/PL0yXJ0iCx7YL2MH_-BGeDpg53JWkLGI7S.html&si=p1qOpsUViX5-a4jZ Fromsoftware Talky (Older content) : ua-cam.com/play/PL0yXJ0iCx7YKLUf9rJtzUjk9xY1VjOVev.html&si=KEaj8r5FqtFZBuYI
No offense, not being mean, just saying and talking, but yes a lot of this is farfetched. Miquella is shown in the dlc art, the hands are hands and even with that the skin, color, nails and size r dif, the cocoon changed miquella like they do, and there's tons of eyes missing. Ranni for instance. So could be her. Honestly it all screams of volcano manor honestly. I would tie it that way. The art, building designs, the colors and more. Don't know how but just looks that way to me. Edit- I hope this didn't come off ignorantly. I mean it in no way but discussion and maybe u can even explain how I am wrong.
Emerald gecko, I was gonna edit my comment to add a compliment on you being one of the more unique theorizers and as an editor I always hate sound issues. The sound is better now, if you didnt make a change, maybe it was on my end, however I receive notifications to this video and it appears my comment is gone. LMAO. Consider the cocoon is a body being grown for Miquella after he divested himself of his body. His body may become Messmer. Pretty sure Messmer is Melina, that or Radagons father, and Marikas first born.
I was watching your vídeo and then I notice that messmer bracelet has a serpent in a 8 form eating his own tail like in miquella's ring in the hand out of the cocoon
Yea but this one's out there lol. Like miquella is shown in the dlc art. They r on a horse. So this is thrown out. Edit- also miquela looks dog in the cocoon cause it did what cocoons do, change what's inside it. And honestly, prolly against miquela's will. But still fun to watch and think. Thinking outside the box like this may get ppl to realize something that is canon.
You can google "Miquella without cocoon" and see that his proportions are not lanky. His arms come down to the hip like normal, while Messmer's come down to his knees.
Not a fan of this theory but I absolutely love that you are proposing new and interesting ideas. Keep doing it! you are definitely into something here.
100% appreciate this!!! Thank you so much for the positive feedback, some people can be arses with feedback, this is the perfect way to go about it! Thank you, it means the world!
I wonder: With all this “Radagon is Marika, Ranni is Melina, Miquella is Melina, Miquella is Mesmer” stuff, maybe they’re all just aspects of one, just like the runes are part of the Elden Ring.
I dont buy it. Miquella has so much iconography and themes associated with him already that are begging to be better explored, and none of it alligns with mesmer's iconography. More importantly: mesmer has a body. Miquella does not anymore. Case closed.
I think miquella will appear to us in a similar fashion to Melina in the base game: as a bodyless spirit. I think he will replace melina for us while we are in the shadow lands. This will allow players who have already lost melina in the base game to enter the dlc without missing dialogue as we would simply travel with miquella for the new content.
That’s super sweet dude thank you! Fingers crossed it’s even better than the theories! I have a sneaking feeling fromsoftware is going to once again blow us away
I actually did have rhis thought but the problem is thare are way to many holes, does miquella have 3 alrer egos? Why are there 3 butterflies? What role does melina play. The problem is there is so little known about miquella, even the lore acknowledged this. For that there is plenty of theorys to make.
Maybe Melina isn’t Miquella in that case? The point of st Trina and Melina having similar marks, might be just the same kind of curse, like how the death mark centipede? Can’t agree more, we NEED answers in the dlc!
@@theemeraldgecko310 I don't want to bother but now after the ziostorm video we see the hand for the dlc entrance looks like snakes. But one detail that I want to point out is that the spear looks like mohgs sacred spear. In fact it has the same material on the tip as the mohgs sacred spear AND the malikeths black blade. And we are Mesmers flame looks like destined death and blood flame. I still have doubts but it's no longer a reach to say that messmer is miquella, but it could also be a radigon and marica situation, two half's of a whole completing each other.
@@theemeraldgecko310AND AND AND I JUST REALIZED. There is no definitive proof that ST Trina is miquella, it's theorized and it's speculated in the lore, and the miquella's lilly and st. Trina's lilly fo look similar but nothing outright state they are the same. So if we believe st Trina is NOT miquella, then this fits the theory nicely that St. Trina is Melina
what is the ring on the cocoon hand? the ring is missing on mizmar hand, i think the person shaped with tree roots is not Miquela but something like mother and Miquela was in her womb. i think Miquela shape change because he put himself on cocoon so he will grow but first he put him self on Helge tree so he will get it grace, instead he has been kidnaped and had injected with cursed blood so he transformed to this new shape
Interesting video! Dunno if i buy it, but it would be cool to see. Perhaps something in your favour is names: "mesmer" sounds like its derived from "mesmerise", something miquella (and st trina) are quite good at.
The mark on Melina's eye seems to be a clawmark that seals it shut. It fades in the flames of frenzy, thus allowing her to realize her past connection to the Gloam Eyed Queen, whatever that may be. There are really so many details about eyes in ER that it's hard to say that two characters with eye stuff going on constitutes a tangible connection. You have to look at the specific nature of the eyes.
100% agree, I made the connection between st Trina and the stuff in this video, because Miquella is genuinely regarded as St Trina, just thought it added a bit more evidence considering we never seen St Trinas eyes, only that she is symbolised as having one just like Messmer :)
I’m so glad you enjoyed! I think it has to do with the reception you sometimes used to receive to these kind of videos, not so much now, but a couple years back you’d get flamed and berated for schizo theories, that sort of hate for them seems to have passed now which I’m super happy about! But I think the stigma still remains somewhat which makes people hesitant to make these type of videos!
Scarlett Rot takes memories away and Malenia disposed of her unalloyed needle when she bloomed on Radahn, which was a long time ago before we find her. She then tells us that she's been dreaming, which shows her memories are fading.
Both dont make any sense to me. Melina cant be Miquellas spirit alter ego form St. Trina cause Miyazaki confirmed that St. Trina would appear in the DLC and if we burn Melina in the main game she dies which would make that impossible. Miyazaki also said that there would be no changes to the main story but Melina being spirit alter ego Miquella (St. Trina) it would affect the main story quite a lot. This just completely debunks this theory. The only convincing theory to me out there about Melina is that she is/was the Gloam Eyed Queen and the DLC could finally confirm this which wouldnt affect the main story and just be additional information. It would also go hand in hand with the frenzied flame secret ending cutscene. Her being burned and bodyless is a reference to when she lost to Maliketh as the GEQ. He burned her flesh with the rune of death even leaving burn maks on her spirit self. The blade of calling is found in a secret room where she was plotting her moves as the GEQ long ago. Her leading the Godskins and going against the erdtree obviously was a cardinal sin. Marika veiled her existance as a result and this is why we never read anything about her, like Messmer. As for why Miquella cant be Messmer its simple. We literally see Miquella at the end of the DLC trailer plus Miyazaki also confirmed that we saw Miquella on the first screenshot from Shadow of the Erdtree riding torrent. Miquella is also cursed with eternal childhood. Messmer is a new character and another child of Marika most likely responsible for the first burning of the Erdtree which is why Marika veiled his existance. They even made a CE statue for Messmer, not Miquella. Also "The Impaler" wouldnt make any sense as a title for Miquella. Hes never described as a violent figure, he "weilds love to shrive clean the hearts of men".
I like this theory a lot. There is some poetry in the idea that something that is adored as something divine, pure and full of light being an illusion and underneath is something dark, impure and what people believe to be rotten (but perhaps it is not truly rotten if you have an open mind), while at the same time what people believe to be "rotten" and impure may (depending on how Messmer's character arc plays out) be divine, pure and full of light underneath. It would add an interesting duality to Miquella, having this one incredibly cruel side, the impaler that led a war so terrible that it can't be put to song, and another side - perhaps his repenting self to make up for his cruel actions after the war (whether you think that's morally possible is another question) - that tries to heal and bring about positive change. Some points I thought about off the top of my head without checking the lore: - The hair of St. Trina's statue (esp. the strands winding upwards) look a lot like serpents/snakes to me - Snakes are often associated with hypnosis/ people (wrongly) believe snakes can hypnotize their prey. Hypnosis is not exactly the same as sleeping but can often lead to a similar state (or a dream-like state), esp. if you conduct a session while lying down. So perhaps this could be seen as a loose connection with St. Trina's sleep powers. - Snakes are often associated with seduction (at least in Biblical mythology) which could mirror Miquella's power to charm, bewitch and compell people, esp. if you add the hypnosis angle to it. His knights seem to be like under a spell - or as if they have been hypnotised. I don't necessarily think it means he is evil. It could even illustrate an interesting duality (again), with Messmer's snakes being dangerous, burning, and weapons (think of the snake-like strands of black flames in the sky during the war scenes) whereas Miquella's snake reference is metaphorical and is an indirect, interpersonal power as opposed to Messmer's snakes, with them being an embodiment of direct violence. - Hypnosis of snakes is often associated with looking them in the eye. This could fit both the eye on St. Trina's statue and the point that Miquella's eyes are kept such a suspicious mystery (either hidden or closed). It could either be metaphorical to emphasise the hypnosis/enchantment theme on a purely symbolic level or Miquella's power of compelling people and St. Trina's sleep powers could actually be tied to their eyes. - If you take it even further you could also draw a connection between snakes, Miquella's haligtree and the biblical story of the snake in the tree, who offered a gift of liberation to those eating its fruit of knowlege. Now there are several layers to it. Miquella is supposed to be a genius so the fruit of knowledge could be a metaphor for the powers/magic/tools etc. he passes on to the beings following him. If he also knows the truth about the world (and the possible lies surrounding it) then following him ("accepting his fruit of knowledge") could eventually lead to people being intellectually liberated from the lies of ER's world. In this context the tree with the snake can be seen as a counterforce or alternative to God/Marika: if you follow the snake you reject the latter's order and aim to live by a new order of truth and self-determination (potentially - if that is Miquella's plan, that is). I think this is why the haligtree with Miquella/"the snake" is a refuge for everything/everyone that is impure in the eyes of the golden order and provides them with an alternative opportunity at life. - In a sense you could interpret these as (very loose) Lucifer parallels. Though it does not mean that Miquella has to be bad. It could also be a subversion of the original Lucifer with him being in the "right" (as far as this is possible in ER) and God/Marika being the true oppressive force. Him divesting himself of his flesh (a culmination of his slow but steady deviation from the golden order and him forging an alternative path) could symbolise his fall. Lucifer was also said to be fair and beautiful (though in this case it might be a deception) just like Miquella, which provides a stark contrast to Messmer's look, who seems quite demonic and devilish and the setting he is presented in within the trailer appears very hellish. In the promo art he is also shown sitting on a throne in the lands of shadows, which could be an allusion to him being the "king of hell", whereas the lands between are (supposedly) heaven. I don't necessarily think Miquella (and/or Messmer) are a full-on Lucifer reference but perhaps some aspects of his story influenced Miquella's (and/or Messmer's) writing should he in fact be Messmer. Sorry, perhaps all of this is super tinfoil-hatty but it came to my mind while watching the video.
That Mesmer is Miquella was my first thought as i saw the Trailer too. And since Miquella is "Mesmerising" (is it spelled like that? 😅). So i don't think this theory is not too wild to me 😅
DUDE I bloody forgot to mention it in the video, that line in the description for the Messmer statue was what started this all of, fromsoftware literally say that about Messmer mesmerising!!! I’m glad you don’t find it outlandish, I think there’s merit to this, but I understand why some might think its bat shit insane!!
I absolutely love the idea of the people rebelling against the tyranny of a monarchy, I doubt it but I hope we get something along these lines in the dlc!
this makes more sense than the melina being miquella theory imo. the plot hole for me in that is the fact that we wouldnt know otherwise who the gloam eyed queen is. and i think its obvious its melina, everything adds up for her to be her. The theory presented in this video is genius and seems like the kind of literary device that FROM soft would use in their lore. The secret of Radagon being Marika could very well be foreshadowing the truth of Miquella being Messmer. It's really quite a mess to predict the DLC isnt it.
I’m not really an over emotional guy, but this nearly brought tears to my eyes man, it’s super sweet, thank you so much! I do agree with what you’re saying, Melina is a perfect fit for the gloam eyed queen, I love Timdiggitys video, but if Melina is Miquella that means the gloam eyed queen is Miquella? By the way just thought I’d say this in regards to Melina, she has pink hair which is quite literally a lighter shade of red…. Hey that’s all I’m gonna say. Thanks so much for the lovely comment it means the world!
hmm. but the gloam eyed queen was like marika, so she may have been a god that serves an outer god, like marika serves the greater will. With malenia being cursed to hold the outer god of rot, maybe miquellas curse was even more similar that we thought. i always thought he kinda lucked out in comparison to his sisters curse. afterall, the gloam eyed queen shares her connections with sleep with miquella, not with melina
My first thought with the Trailer was "Oh so he's called Mesmer? Like mesmerize? Like what you'd expect of Miquella? So that's probably exactly not what it is, it feels too obvious. Right?
I watched another video that said Miquella, St.Trina and Messmer were all parallels to Griffith, Femto, and the Moonlight boy. This made me think of the elongated limbs. I dont think anyone else has mentioned the long limbs yet.
So Messmer represents everything that is blasphemous to the golden order but the trailer also says that he burns everyone who is stripped of the grace of gold. So if Miquella is in fact Messmer then why would he grow the haligtree, a place where everyone stripped of the grace of gold could live? i don’t quit see why he would do something like that, the goals of messmer, miquella and melina just don’t really line up for me for them being the same person. But you are definitely right, the person in the cocoon looks nothing like miquella although that doesnt really have to mean anything, he doesnt really look like messmer either, apart from the limbs. But at the end of the trailer we see Miquella in the form that he is always associated with nothing really makes sense here I am so confused
Can’t agree more, this shit is so confusing, I feel as if we’re missing a vital piece of the puzzle, hopefully the dlc will hold that piece! Maybe the person at the end isn’t Miquella….
Maybe Miquella put her to sleep so she wouldn’t have to deal with the fact Miquella was up and going? I don’t know, that or she was just having a nappy after her fight with radahny boy
well im not sure if you've seen vaatividya's video called the lore of elden ring is cursed but when it came out i watched it and he mentioned that there's another god named the formless mother. since mohg has the blood of the formless mother and in his boss intro he came out of miquellas cacoon, i feel like he cursed miquella with the blood of the formless mother resulting in messmer as in the trailer he has similar blood flame to mohg.@@theemeraldgecko310
I've always been curious about how life's time is divided for Marika/Radagon. Are both always alive, coming to a consensus for every decision while in the same body? Or does one gain control internally, somehow? Or one sleeps, and the other wakes? With your theory in mind, I think "which entity was birthed" becomes the crucial question. I might argue that BOTH Radagon and Miquella weren't actually born. Rather, Marika and Messmer were the originally born entities. Imagine the life cycle of eternal youth. You probably age baby > toddler > tween > teen. Maybe Marika or Radagon, in an attempt to ward off the outer gods influence, split Messmer into two beings. Miquella, the baby/toddler. Messmer, the tween and teen. And then, either Radagon or Marika chose Miquella and banished Messmer. Perhaps, divesting Messmer in the same way Radagon was seperated from Marika while with Rennala. Perhaps, Radagon's story goes deeper. Maybe he was a "gift" to Marika by the Golden Order. Or - more likely - a stipulation to her godhood that allowed the golden order to have some amount of control over her at all times. Marika shattered the ER, Radagon attempted to mend it. "O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self." We are told by the Finger Reader crones that Marika is trapped in the Erd Tree as punishment for the shattering. But none of us trust the finger readers, two fingers, or the Golden Order on anything else. Why have we trusted that Marika was ever actually jailed in the tree? Especially since we are confronted by Radagon. Maybe the "Radagon is Marika" twist is two-fold. Maybe, he was a part of Marika and isn't anymore. Maybe, instead of meeting the Gloam Eyed Queen, we meet Marika in the DLC. But idk man! Excited to find out and be proven wrong on all fronts :D Thanks for sharing!
Hmm, maybe Miquella has the same or somewhat similar ability to Marika being different people at once. Melina and Messemer being his alter egos. Im thinking in the DLC these alter egos are actually "halves" of Miquella that separated to some degree. Miquella's original golden hair mirrors Marika and Messmer's red mirroring Radagon while Melina is what he uses to hide the fact that it's him. Something went awry with the transformation somewhat, probably as a side effect of Mohg taking him from the Haligtree.Miquella probably transformed into a underdeveloped Messmer in the egg as a fear-response or a defense mechanism or something and probably was in a half-dead or slumbering state during or after his kidnapping and we and Mohg mistook it as a mutation as what's in the egg looks nothing like Miquella. Mirroring the underdeveloped Messmer, Melina seems to be underdeveloped as well, confused about her identity and shit. But what she remembers is her objective as there seems to be a tunnel vision to her as this is her sole focus instead of figuring out who she is, which I think is a product of the fracturing or half-developed state of the alter ego's mind. Or Melina was another alter-ego he created at the last minute so he could achive his goals in the Lands Between without drawing unwanted attention to himself from the Golder Order and/or the Outer Gods. Her purpose in the Lands Between is probably connected to what Miquella wants to achieve within the Lands of Shadow. I also think Miquella's exploits in the Lands of Shadow drew the attention of the Formless Mother and wanted the Messmer alter ego to be more dominant, hence directing Mogh to kidnap him from the Haligtree, with this "Mohgwyn Dynasty" farce she formulated in Mohg's head so she could get what she wants. She knew what would happen with this kind of intervention. This prompted Miquella to create Melina so that wouldn't happen again. With all that in mind, I'm speculating Miquella was tapping into the profane and using or examining it for an end-goal he deems "good". This goes with Messmer having the blasphemous Blood flame and the snakes and how Melina is connected to death (having the same moveset with the Black Knife Assassins, connection to destined death with the Frenzied Flame ending etc.). His sleep in the egg was probably him trying to achieve whatever he was planning in the Lands of Shadow. Was it to merge the profane with the divine? Was he crafting some weird rune that uses both to be able to cure Malenia? I really can't say, but a combination of these factors is what Miquella would have gotten if he won and actually wasn't kidnapped and woke up in the Haligtree. But Mogh fucked it all up when he kidnapped Miquella. My guess is Miquella is now keeping the Messmer alter ego at bay in the Lands of Shadow as he could probably fully awaken in the egg and cause problems the Lands Between. I think we have a choice to let Messmer awaken in the Lands Between as a DLC ending, adding the "Age of Blood" once we become Elden Lord.
This was honestly such a blast to read! I’ve been noticing as of late parallels between fromsoftwares games, something you just said made me remember, wasn’t Manus split in different fragments which then became different people… Super interesting theories thank you for sharing them!!!
Here's another schitzo topic that would neatly roll into this one. Marika is the Formless Mother. Hear me out. There are two "Outer Gods" related to blood. There's Formless Mother and her Mogh thing and there's the Blood Star and her connection to briars of sin. Marika we see is a bloodless corpse. If we go with the theory that Radagon is a Silver Tear similar to Asimi cut quest, we can extrapolate that he took over Marika's body, merged into her and overpowered her as she broke the Elden Ring. The Blood Star can be contacted if you blind yourself or are blinded as punishment. There are Marika(and Radagon) Soreseal and Scarseal items that clearly are eyes. So Marika is blind and could, theoretically, have seen the Blood Star. I theorize that Marika's only way to escape was to flee as blood. We see Mogh turn into a puddle of blood, perhaps she did the exact same thing. And when she did, she freed Mogh from his imprisonment and went on with her master plan. Mogh's servants lead us along the way. Varre killed our finger maiden, Bloody Finger Jerren got us to kill Radann. Oh, what a twist that would be. Mogh's whole thing was looking for a mother figure and finding it in an outer god. But what if that outer god is just his own mother posing as one, channeling Blood Star's powers.
I’m actually in love with this theory, I love it so bloody much! I love the idea that Marikas is just out here trying to make up lost time with her son by posing as an omnipotent outer god lmao
Interesting theory, but I think that if Melena is Miquella and Mesmer it is possible only if each had their own personality, because Melena genuinely wants to make you an Elden Lord the whole game, except for Franzy Flame ending, yet Mesmer questions Marika's choice to lordship us, Tarnished, such devoid of grace. Or it might be a deliberate move by devs to lead us in the wrong direction with the trailer, and his phrase isn't related to the player character
Ive honestly been doing some thinking and I’m honestly not 100% on Miquella being Melina, the bit I am pretty sure on is my theory of Miquella being Messmer, I feel if everyone is Miquella it’s gonna take away from the story we have? That’s such an interesting thought, Fromsoftware red herring?
These Theories get more outlandish as time goes on, give it a Week until Release and the entire DLC is just a matrix like fever dream from which Godwyn and Miquella will wake up from like a simulation at the end.
I am all for the "accepted" lore being challenged. I have seen the same stuff rehashed so many times without being challenged, despite having little to back it up. As long as people are willing to mine the games for every small detail and compile them together into a narrative, I will watch and read them and appreciate their work, even if I don't necessarily agree. At least people are thinking about laterally about the world of Elden Ring! More crack theories straight into my veins until the DLC, please.
Can’t agree more, I think that’s why I make these type of videos, I’m a massive fan of fromsoftware and I was so sick of the same stuff being reused over and over again. Thank you for the lovely comment, means a lot to me! More liquid crack theories on the way for you’re veins!
Blood thorn sorcery is from Blood Star, while bloodflame is from Formless Mother. They are not the same. Like of Asteal are EB are not the same, but use simlar visual light beans and sparkle bombs.
@@kamantariq2513 sure!! There are lots of alien meteors all attacking the planet and maybe each other. See those whirlpools on the map? Those aliens I'm also worried about. Tarnished don't swim.
The body in the cocoon is the same model as Morgott after he’s defeated. That has no specific explanation in game as to why it happens. I don’t think we can read to much into the body in the egg not looking like any other depiction of Miquella in game. Something about the body of a demigod being separated from the soul. We see this with Godwyn’s corpse devolving after his assassination, and we from the DLC that Miquella has separated his own soul from the body inside that husk. 🤷♀️
I was honestly stunned when I first heard it was the same model, I felt so stupid, though saying that, I find it odd they would re-use the same asset on something so important as the entrance to the dlc, that is unless they had something in mind?
WOW! This one was REALLY interesting! I've also heard from someone else, that it's actually MESSMER in Moghwyn Palace! Oh, "Miquella" maybe having snakes, is like Gwyndolin in Dark Souls 1! He, who was raised as a girl, due to his powers, ALSO can cast POWERFUL illusions, like the one over all of Anor Londo, making it look how it USED to! If ALL, or at least, MOST of this is true, that pretty much confirms Messmer being a Empyrean, because his power level is supposed to be INSANE in the DLC! Maybe "Miquella" took on certain aspects of Godwyn, his half-brother, who was LEADER of the Dragon Cult, which formed after he bonded with Fortissax, and his sister was Priestess of the Dragon Cult, who Roundtable Knight Vyke was STRONGLY associated with, before he screwed up, and took the Frenzied Flame! OH S%#@! I JUST thought of this, maybe THAT'S why Lansexax was in Leyndell, she first pops up in the Altus Plateau, THEN in Leyndell! You know what is also in Leyndell, locked up DEEP below it, the Chamber of the Three Fingers! This is a very loose theory, BUT, maybe she was trying to find a way to CURE Vyke of the Frenzied Flame, like Fortissax tried and failed to cure Godwyn from his Deathblight! Lansexax also failed, but is STILL around Leyndell, trying to protect others from coming into contact with the Frenzied Flame, trying to keep other Tarnished far away as possible from it! Because she didn't want the same thing that happened to Vyke, to befall to anyone else! If "Miquella" is Melina, and if "Miquella" is actually Messmer (which would explain the snake thing), like I said before, Gwyndolin, had snakes too, and was born "impure" as well, IF ALL of this is true, no wonder they waited till the DLC for this, we could be talking about a being of such UNFATHOMABLE power, it NEEDED a DLC to explain! You're not crazy, it actually would explain A LOT!
I’m so soooooooo glad you liked this one so much! As always absolutely loved you’re theories you always have such interesting and amazing theories!!! The dlc is gonna incredible, I can’t wait!!!!! I hope you’ve been doing okay?
I’m with some of the other commenters I think there are too many holes in this theory for it to have grounds for belief yet, but a topic I think you would do amazing with based off of watching this video is the idea on why some empyreans seem to have 2 forms and others do not, maybe all empyreans have 2 forms one golden haired and one red haired where the golden haired one is more clever and the red haired one is more powerful one. My current working theory for the pairs: Marika and radagon Ranni and Godwen (this is so crackpot but my favorite pairing for the lore implications) Miquella and st trina Mesmer and the gloam-eyed queen (also love this one) Feel free to have this idea for a video and if you want I’ll gladly walk you through how I got to these pairings for your research :)
Well... Not to be a buzz kill... But the model used for miquella inside the cocoon, is the exact character model used for morgott when he is about to die :)
I honestly am so blown away this is the case!!! Thank you for letting me know! Makes you wonder though, why would fromsoftware re-use an asset for something so important as the dlc, if it didn’t have something important to it?
Buts there like this whole thing about a soulless demi god and the sun needing to be swallowed by an eclipse to give this demi god a soul and it's some how tied to miquella.
I believe it’s probably more likely that Mesmer was stripped from the lands between’s history books akin to the nameless king in dark souls due to something he did
@@aidenbrenneman2302 Yeah but there were statues and lore of the ostracized son throughout the DS series, there is nothing like that for Mesmer. NK was hinted at and planned ahead for, if they do the same story with Mesmer its just like a lazy retcon.
@@recordingstudiotechuntil the dlc releases you have no idea as to what may have been related to messmer. Such as the snake being considered blasphemous, we're never told why. Or the ash in Leyndell. The gloam eyed queen. An ancient defeated enemy was wiped from history. And the only remnants of her are the godskin, and her sword. A sword no person in this world would ever find if not for our character. If one of her children burn the symbol of their order, she'd probably bury that even deeper.
The way I take it, we're playing inside Marika's mind and we're basically experiencing her grief. It's a very common theme in videogames, like the Hoyoverse (Genshin Impact and Star Rail) games, the Final Fantasy franchise but more importantly the Shin Megami Tensei and Persona games. In the Shin Megami Tensei and Persona games, the theme is always about overcoming death, and these stories take place in the unconscious. There are a bunch of clues that basically tell the story of who has passed away. Tarot cards represent the archetypes within the human psyche, and those are basically represented by the demi-gods. At the core of the story, we have the triquetra, which represents life (the bonds you create), death (the death of somebody you had that bond with) and rebirth (overcoming that loss and learning to move on). Trying to overcome death, creating new life and duality. As above, so below. So, there are two scenarios, but both are tied to the same idea. There was a complication with twins during a pregnancy. Either Marika is the mother or Marika is the surviving twin. We're participating in the Sophia's journey, where you don't blindly believe everything that's being told to you and how you have to experience things yourself and come to your own conclusions. The persona mask that the Marika person has been wearing, is starting to show cracks. Basically, we're learning about the loss of one of the twins, while also trying to overcome the loss of that twin. Miquella's Haligtree is a retelling of what happened to the other twin, represented by Messmer. This story also spirals through Darian & Devin, a story based on Castor and Pollux. Another in game situation that spirals that story is Rennala's situation. Rennala is basically Lena, who had twins with Tyndareus and Zeus. In Norse mythology, that story is very similar to what happened to Rind, Rindr and Rinda, but instead it's Odin and Loki. There is also an unobtainable item in Elden Ring, called the Entwining Umbilical Cord, which might explain what happened to the twin that died. In order to move on, we sometimes need to address conflicts within ourselves in order to move on, which normally happens in the unconscious. In Persona 3, we go into the unconscious to overcome the loss of the main character's parents, by dealing with this conflict in the unconscious which they call the 25th hour (sleep). In Persona 5R, it's the story of Takuto Maruki, who creates a contract with Azathoth/Adam Kadmon to remove pain and suffering from the world, trying to make what happens in the unconscious the main reality. In Final Fantasy 10, the main character goes into the unconscious to deal with the death of his father. In Star Rail, after releasing patch 2.0., they're dealing with the death of several people in the unconscious world, called Penacony. And in Genshin Impact, the story is about two twins that were separated, where one twin is looking for the other twin but hasn't processed yet that the other twin is dead. The dead twin has been replaced with something similar to a mimic tear, to deal with the pain. In that game, you're basically on the Sophia's journey to learn how to deal with the death of the sibling. It's a fake god story, the ignorant demiurge is the main character itself.
Ooooooooo... idk if I started sayin it was messmer in the cocoon or not. But I have been sayin for a while now.... even down to the hand thing. There's a reason why in the dlc trailer they put emphasis on "golden miquellas" hands and arms, AND messmers hand and arms, for a reason... EVERYTHING that makes it on screen is on there for a reason... it's all meant to be there
Can’t agree more! Fromsoftware are bloody geniuses, they’ve done it before like in the 2019 teaser trailer, everything we need to know is right here we just don’t know it yet!
@@theemeraldgecko310My thoughts were that Miquella being Messmer is unlikely. This is because: 1. Messmer says in the trailer, “Those stripped of the grace of gold shall meet… the embrace of Messmer’s flame [death].” Messmer isn’t lying; this oath helps explain the Tarnished’s conflict with him. We also know that, to reach the Land of Shadow, Miquella divested himself “of all things golden.” So, if Messmer and Miquella are the same, this means that Miquella would want to kill himself? This motive makes little sense to me. 2. Your point about the cocoon-body’s hand may not be lore related. The cocoon-body is a reused model; it is Morgott’s after he is defeated in Leyndell. So, using this as evidence is saying the same about Messmer and Morgott. Admittedly, this is a weak rebuttal because Miyazaki tends to do stuff like this for good reason. 3. Melania is the “Blade of Miquella” because she fought his battles for him. Obviously, Messmer does not seem the defenceless type. 4. Messmer seems to have been in the Land of Shadow for a long time. This is evident by how the land is “set ablaze by Messmer’s Flame” and how Messmer sits on a throne overlooking the Land of Shadow in the promotional art. This does not align with Miquella divesting himself of his flesh; he wouldn’t need to if he was Messmer and he was already in the Land of Shadow. That was a bit of a rant. But, like I said, you’ve got some good points about Miquella not having red hair and Messmer having it. Something is awry, just not a double-identity imo.
100% get where you’re coming from! Firstly in regards to Messmer, I think yes although he says that I don’t think it’s 100% that clear cut, Messmer also I’m the same line says “mother would thoust lordship sanction in one so bereft of light?” Imo, I think yes he is devoid of grace but I think he still at least when it comes to us, he feels a need to get rid of us? We are lore wise sleeping with his mom and are by proxy his enemy, or maybe he has some sense of loyalty to his family and that’s why he needs to fight us? It’s hard to really say, we’ll have to wait till the dlc!!! Secondly, I honestly had no idea about the corpse being a re-used asset, that’s on me! Though like you said, fromsoftware hardly does anything for no reason, so I’m not throwing it out just yettttt Thirdly, I agree if Messmer is Miquella he could fight his own battles, but that would require him to embrace his true self to fight, imo makes a lot more sense to get someone to trust to be you’re sword, saves him having to destroy his golden lie. Fourthly, the shattering is said to have happened an eon ago, it is super duper confusing as the characters in game don’t seem to act like it’s been thousands of years, but it has. The point between the dlc and the shattering is possibly thousands upon thousands of years apart, imo that’s enough time for a land to be engulfed by Flamesssssss Sorry if this came off as rude in response, it wasn’t my intention, just wanted to try and explain my thoughts a bit better :)
If he's using the mimic's veil my question to you because I genuinely can't remember. When we use the veil do we ever turn into an animal or another person or just an inanimate object?
We can turn into both! We're quite limited with it, but I feel as Miquella is almost a full god, I feel he'd be able to use it fully! Kinda like we can use scarlet aeonia but nowhere near the same as Malenia!
@@theemeraldgecko310Thanks for the answer, I was definitely using it wrong in that case because I never turned myself into other than inanimate objects.
At this point miquella is even the turtle priest. Honestly the young miquella got into so much knowledge trying to bring back his brother and cure his sister from the scarlet rot that i feel such big tasks got him into finding a wat to split his body and conscious into multiple beings. But who knows until the dlc comes out 🤷🏽♂️
Hmm, it's more likely the player character is a mimic of Miquella The way radagon is a mimic of marika Rogier says "people want to trust you, I've seen it" The dung eater, would kill a stranger to look at him... strangely spills his life story and goals to you Torrent recognizes something about you. Finally Melina says something everyone assumes is obvious "One of his kind will surely seek the Elden ring , which may violate the golden order" The issue is She absolutely can Not be speaking of tarnished Bc the tarnished were brought back and given grace back to seek the Elden ring. Gideon confirms marika wants the tarnished to seek the Elden ring. So who is Melina speaking of?!? Someone who could succeed Or is it just a coincidence that demigods start to drop when your random tarnished arrives?!?? I enjoy your theory but there's too much of told of Miquellas ability to compel love. He sent his sister to fight Radahn , knowing she was completely outmatched It's possible that miquellas effort to create an alternative to the golden order in using godwyns death to create death root and living in death as well as the albinaurics This is life that does not require the red tree The halig tree is literally the shadow of the erdtree And maybe it didn't fail If Miquella was able to use the halig tree to move his soul before mogg took his child cursed body Then he could divest himself of his curse - leaving his body to grow without a soul , like godwyns
I love you’re theory of us being a mimic tear, it would add an even greater level to the cut mimic tear quest line if it gets re added in the dlc!! Maybe she is talking about us, just not about us being tarnished but rather us being a mimic tear? Amazing theories dude, sorry for the late reply!
I think Miquella, Marika, Mesmer, Melina, maybe even St. Trina, and the Gloam Eyed Queen are all either the same person or 2 or are all connected some how from something we don't know yet, I also think Marika made radagon her puppet and perhaps radagon is the one strung up in the eldin ring and not marika.
@@theemeraldgecko310 well we are supposed to find out what she was doing or did in the land of shadow but when I think about it certain things don't add up with Marika or Miquella that and we know Marika's spells have to do with covering stuff up with veils or hiding stuff in general. There is something for sure going on maybe Marika is Miquella?
What if Miquella has 2 different evolution paths present at the same time? 🪷🐍 Melina is his final form if he completes sleep 🤨 Mesmer is his final form when sleep gets corrupted by floodflame 🤔
The figure in malenia’s arena is supposed to be like a pregnant woman, not necessarily supposed to be Miquella. The cocoon is her womb. Anything is possible in ER more but I really don’t think Miquella would be gestating himself in a giant pregnant version of himself. It’s possible. But it just sounds like the least likely option.
There was never a Miquela. The was only Melania. She is forever youthfule and was forced to house scarlet rot. How else is she not dead? Her trainer the blue dancer taught her movement counters rot. So she kept her mind and body moving even in sleep to keep her mind from roting away like what happened to Rhodan. Melenia eternal youth and endless dreaming eventualy lead her to became the god of dreams St. Trina. And so, she made everyone "dream" of Mequela. Someone not burdened by rot. Somone who is everything she is not.A Radagon is Marika senario, but this time it's Mequela is Melenia. It became such a powerful dream, it compeled others to act in her or rather his favor.So strong Melenia started to see it. Talk to it. And the dream talk back. So strong the dream of Mequela became real. And so Mequela the twin of Melenia, the god of dreams the fierced empyrian was born. Mohg's dream from St. Trina was of Mequela, a young girl in the possesion of Melenia. Not his half sister, just a dreamy girl traped inside a tree. One whom he could mary and bare children with. Messmer I'd say is forcefully forgotten akin to Gwyn's 1st born. Cursed with flame or some shit
When i first saw Messmer's pic I immediately understand that it is Miquella. It's fucking obvious? But i was a little bit disappointed because I don't want to beat Miquella, he is good little buddy, no fight, only cuddle.
Mark my words, Melina is miquella, the act of divesting thyself of flesh created ranni, and Melina, a split of the faith of golden order cast him into the shadow realm, his alter ego Melina awoke at the base of the erdtree, miquellas faith was split into multiple pieces, that’s why Melina has torrent and can cast erdtree like incantations, but they also were of black knives to kill godwyn, it’s also why Melina has the clouded eye ending, her faith was shook, and ranni and Melina are basically a product of miquellas split Someone please read this and comment
Yes, yes! We must delve deeper! Only cowards would be afraid of eyes on the inside! Although tbh, 3:26 you are kinda crazy. Those hands look nothing alike, you might need an intervention.
@@theemeraldgecko310 cause to me the timeline makes more sense if Messmer was around Godwynn's time and he retaliated when Marika had him killed. Could be totally bonkers crazy but I almost feel like Godwynn could have been a women and empyrean meant to be the next vassal, or Marika's lover (which brought about the omen curse in her children) and due to the sin which that implies in either case she was cursed by the greater will. I find it odd Radagon kind of just exists out of nowhere and I wouldn't be surprised if he somehow has a tie in to Godwynn or is a personification of Marika's sin given that Mohg already exemplifies well... Incest and he was a product of it potentially. Almost seems like Godfrey was cast out as if he was impure but he had nothing to do with it. Anyways to the point I believe Messmer has a close relationship to dragons as did Godwynn, potentially his brother (or sister?) and so he brought about the first burning and revolted against Marika's order for her sins. If it happened recently it seems odd we don't know about it because there is knowledge of many other blasphemous things which the Golden Order would have will to cut ties with or hide. So if Messmer is a recent thing how is he so unknown? How did the land of shadow burn in an unsung battle after the shattering? To me it sounds a lot like the unsung battle was an unsung victory and that's why Marika is essentially just a husk and seemingly only Radagon's soul even still exists in that husk. Tldr: Mequilla/Melania being Godwynn and Messmer, or Mequilla,Messmer, and Melania reborn via the amber egg as an attempt by Radagon to fix what Marika broke when Godwynn died/or Godwynn quite literally being Messmer and Mequilla having succeeded to ressurect him both make more sense to me than Mequilla being Messmer
Maybe it has to do with the blood flame? We know that fire was the only way to fight the scarlet rot? Maybe the blood flame was what he was searching for to cure Malenia, maybe it was created for that very specific reason? What if Miquella is the formless mother?
Super good point! I mean it is Mohgs thing, so it’d make perfect sense for it to also be Miquella’s thing!!!!!!! Miquella being the formless mother is so out there, but I love it, the formless mother reached out to mohgs mind just like Miquella maybe did with unalloyed gold… only question I have is, if Miquella is the formless mother, how does mohg draw on that power from Miquella?
@@theemeraldgecko310 Formless Mother. Mother. That doesn't have a form. Mogh's Mother that can shapeshift or doesn't have a set shape. That's the literal definition of Marika.
Fire seems to be the ignition for death/ rebirth, that’s why Marika/ Radagon is so aggressive about the Giants. I wonder after Miquella gave up his body to feed the Haligtree, realized his knowledge in the Lands Between wasn’t enough and began his journey in the Land of Shadow, saw an opportunity to become one again and became Mesmer? He allowed Mogh to burn his body with blood flame so that way they can reinvent themselves. I’m just spit balling here
@@theemeraldgecko310 I always thought of Mesmer as a Demigod of Perfect Order. Because true order is chaos, it indulges in the light and the dark. Miquella openly welcomes the Misbegotten, the Albinuarics, and other scorned to his Haligtree, unlike his parents who openly reject, hide, and destroy any who oppose them. Marika and Radagon as a god is based on duality, a balance always divided. While Mesmer is a “true god” inviting the heretics as well as the most devout. A cut content twin blade we were going to receive from Miquella was the “Abundance and Decay Twinblade,” a weapon Im predicting we’ll see in dlc. Miyazaki also stated he included Mesmer sitting on a demigod’s throne to show he’s on equal playfield as the other gods, but I think that’s an understatement. Mesmer is no mere champion, or son of Marika he is a true god
I hadn’t thought of it like that, but you’re idea on what Messmer Symbolises makes a hell of a lot of sense! I guess we’re just gonna have to wait till the dlc for definite answers, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this theory of you’res turns out to be true!
I said the same about him being Mesmer. It's too obvious since his father is technically their mother too. I think Miquella took the split persona thing from Radagan Also I do think that is Miquella in the cocoon because Mohg was trying to force him into adulthood if I recall correctly but I would love to be proved wrong
@@theemeraldgecko310 Schizo or not, I'm with you here! Between Melina and Messmer, there's clearly SOMETHING happening with Miquella but it's just not clear yet what that is. I'm also leaning a bit towards Ranni maybe also having something to do with it all with the spirit face, body burning, and sealed eye. Then there's still the St Trina stuff to reconcile as well!
The only thing that is real is the Dung Eater's love for all the tarnished. He is the only one who never betrays us , lies to us, or leaves us to go to the moon. He is us and we are him.
@@theemeraldgecko310 It's the schitzo theories like this that keep the community churning out more and more thoughts that delve even deeper into the community. Throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks is actually a great way to figure out what the real truth might be by comparing what we see to the theory posed, without posing a theory, there could be no truth seeking! I love it even though I don't fully agree, gets me thinking.
maybe it's confirmation bias but I think this is a solid theory and a fresh angle. Thank you for this manic rant session. Melania is the figurehead for the home base. She's a warrior not an empyrean. This could all be in Miquellas plan but if he's to come back then he'll still need his tree to fight the erd tree. Honestly I think the Ranni plan with Godwyn was a mutual plan. You have to remember all the children were on a council at one point and then war broke out. I think Ranni, Godwyn, and Miquella wanted to overthrow the golden order in some way so they devised the night of the black knives. We know the shadow of the urdtree is where Merica originally sprouted her urdtree. If Mesmer is Miquella then it would makes sense with your theory for a new way to lock up her childrens curses. Mohg and Morgott were locked away but that wouldn't due. Instead she hides them behind a veil. Miquella could have turned into Mesmer and we are to follow him, kill him and let Miquella be reborn into the lands between? Either way if Miquella wants to create his own Urdtree then He'll need a city and military around it for when he comes back. Very Berserk tbh. It doesn't help the Griffith accusations
Thank you I’m so glad you think so it means a lot!! I’ve always been quite hesitant saying wether Godwyn was involved in his own death, but I can definitely see it happening! Hopefully this whole storyline is fully explored, I NEED answers! I need to read Berserk so bad, I haven’t got round to it yet!
@@theemeraldgecko310 it's definitely worth the read but you can also look up the world tree in berserk to see. It seems to make sense with how the erdtree was made in a sense
Im not sure if it's Mesmer in the cocoon or not, I've wondered that myself. But I don't think it's Miquella. I think the cocoon was a bait/distraction put in place by Miquella and everyone including Melenia fell for it. Dude is too smart to do something so dumb
@@theemeraldgecko310 It’s definitely the only other option I can see aside from Messmer just being another “aspect” of Miquella as you mentioned!!! Which I definitely believe is a credible theory!! This was an excellent video!
Miquella, Melina, Messmer and St. Trina are one and the same person! Miquella was real, but he tried some even more grotesque method of self-incest than Marika, then he split into 4, one of them a Benzo addict and the other 3 prefer paint thinner, making their blood extremely combustible. Maybe the formless gasoline mother is also more important than the main game suggests.
I wouldn’t be surprised, Georgey boy Martin is involved he’s mega into that incest stuff. I would really love for that to be the case, we know so little about the formless mother, it’d be a shame to not do something massive with it!!
Your theory is not that bad, considering how Miyazaki and Fromsoft are fans of Berserk. The way you’re presenting it Miquella’s would be very similar to Griffith’s storyline. But I feel like it would be a bit too similar so they likely changed it up more, especially if the character was written by grrm.
@avgfunkygamer I’d held off watching the anime due to people saying to read it instead! Definitely going to check it out! Not sure how true it is, but I’ve heard the manga is even better than the anime! That’s just what I’ve heard though!
I’m posting this when I’m still at the beginning of this video, so maybe our theories are the same, but being an empyrean, I have this funny feeling that Miquella and Malenia are twins the same way that Marika and Radagon are spouses… blonde vs red hair, never been seen in the same room together, both corrupted by an outer god… She is the Blade of Miquella literally and he is just identified both as Miquella and St. Trina.
Watching a bit more, I agree that Mesmer is probably the cocoon guy, but being written out of history, he could easily be mistaken by Malenia as Miquella as her brain is literally being rotted and Mesmer, too, is empyrean.
My buddy has the same theory to a degree. But imo this is too obvious, and also to what end? One of the clearest things we DO know about Miquella is that his motives are mysterious and obscured. So is the answer to the great mystery of who/where/what is Miquella is just going to be that he was the main bad guy on the cover of the game? I’m sorry but I don’t think they’re going to blow their load like that so easily and early. And what would that make Miquella? Marika’s evil janitor who purges everything stripped of gold? That’s the exact opposite of what we’ve learned about Miquella so far.
This one... is a bit wacky, I really hope you enjoy!!! I don't normally say this, but I personally feel this video is way better with headphones, though of course its not a requirement lmao! DONT YOU DARE GO HOLLOW FRIENDS!
ALSO MAY THE FOURTH BE WITH YOU!
The discord for the channel: discord.gg/xv8t5bFSzd
Fromsoftware Lore: ua-cam.com/play/PL0yXJ0iCx7YILcJCNgSzYEmOdMbeE2CFx.html&si=W13ip_eC82Hk_w2h
Elden Mythos: ua-cam.com/play/PL0yXJ0iCx7YL2MH_-BGeDpg53JWkLGI7S.html&si=p1qOpsUViX5-a4jZ
Fromsoftware Talky (Older content) : ua-cam.com/play/PL0yXJ0iCx7YKLUf9rJtzUjk9xY1VjOVev.html&si=KEaj8r5FqtFZBuYI
lmao it is a requirement
No offense, not being mean, just saying and talking, but yes a lot of this is farfetched. Miquella is shown in the dlc art, the hands are hands and even with that the skin, color, nails and size r dif, the cocoon changed miquella like they do, and there's tons of eyes missing. Ranni for instance. So could be her. Honestly it all screams of volcano manor honestly. I would tie it that way. The art, building designs, the colors and more. Don't know how but just looks that way to me.
Edit- I hope this didn't come off ignorantly. I mean it in no way but discussion and maybe u can even explain how I am wrong.
Emerald gecko, I was gonna edit my comment to add a compliment on you being one of the more unique theorizers and as an editor I always hate sound issues. The sound is better now, if you didnt make a change, maybe it was on my end, however I receive notifications to this video and it appears my comment is gone. LMAO. Consider the cocoon is a body being grown for Miquella after he divested himself of his body. His body may become Messmer. Pretty sure Messmer is Melina, that or Radagons father, and Marikas first born.
I was watching your vídeo and then I notice that messmer bracelet has a serpent in a 8 form eating his own tail like in miquella's ring in the hand out of the cocoon
@@Gravelord_Nittothat’s super interesting!!! I always thought it was roots, but an ouroboros would make so much more sense!
I love that i get more and more obscure elden ring theories recommended
I’m honestly so glad you enjoy them! More 100% on the way :)
Yea but this one's out there lol. Like miquella is shown in the dlc art. They r on a horse. So this is thrown out.
Edit- also miquela looks dog in the cocoon cause it did what cocoons do, change what's inside it. And honestly, prolly against miquela's will. But still fun to watch and think. Thinking outside the box like this may get ppl to realize something that is canon.
The algorithm is on to us
@@GhostWriter-Gohan I think you might be right lmaooo
im addicted to them
Miquella is Torrent
So I’ve been riding Miquella all game grabbing onto his big horns?
❤
You can google "Miquella without cocoon" and see that his proportions are not lanky. His arms come down to the hip like normal, while Messmer's come down to his knees.
Oooooo right that’s on me!
@@theemeraldgecko310 All good. We're either learning or we're dying ;)
Not a fan of this theory but I absolutely love that you are proposing new and interesting ideas. Keep doing it! you are definitely into something here.
100% appreciate this!!! Thank you so much for the positive feedback, some people can be arses with feedback, this is the perfect way to go about it! Thank you, it means the world!
Every day we stray further from the Golden Order
That we do, that we do
If you break into a cacoon halfway through it’s cycle you won’t get a catapillar
That’s a great point!!!
I wonder: With all this “Radagon is Marika, Ranni is Melina, Miquella is Melina, Miquella is Mesmer” stuff, maybe they’re all just aspects of one, just like the runes are part of the Elden Ring.
This is a super great point! Would not be surprised if this is the route they go down!
Imagine if it’s a “multiple heads of one body” situation
It would be such an oh shit moment, I can’t wait for this god damn dlc
I dont buy it. Miquella has so much iconography and themes associated with him already that are begging to be better explored, and none of it alligns with mesmer's iconography. More importantly: mesmer has a body. Miquella does not anymore. Case closed.
I think miquella will appear to us in a similar fashion to Melina in the base game: as a bodyless spirit. I think he will replace melina for us while we are in the shadow lands. This will allow players who have already lost melina in the base game to enter the dlc without missing dialogue as we would simply travel with miquella for the new content.
The body inside the cocoon looks like a burn victim, besides being long and lanky. There very well could be something here. lol “case closed”
@@teleroboticthe body looks nothing like messmer, it’s in proportion for one thing
The theory crafting and speculation is always 1,000X better than the outcome.
That’s super sweet dude thank you! Fingers crossed it’s even better than the theories! I have a sneaking feeling fromsoftware is going to once again blow us away
I actually did have rhis thought but the problem is thare are way to many holes, does miquella have 3 alrer egos? Why are there 3 butterflies? What role does melina play. The problem is there is so little known about miquella, even the lore acknowledged this.
For that there is plenty of theorys to make.
Maybe Melina isn’t Miquella in that case? The point of st Trina and Melina having similar marks, might be just the same kind of curse, like how the death mark centipede?
Can’t agree more, we NEED answers in the dlc!
@@theemeraldgecko310 I don't want to bother but now after the ziostorm video we see the hand for the dlc entrance looks like snakes. But one detail that I want to point out is that the spear looks like mohgs sacred spear. In fact it has the same material on the tip as the mohgs sacred spear AND the malikeths black blade. And we are Mesmers flame looks like destined death and blood flame.
I still have doubts but it's no longer a reach to say that messmer is miquella, but it could also be a radigon and marica situation, two half's of a whole completing each other.
@@theemeraldgecko310AND AND AND I JUST REALIZED. There is no definitive proof that ST Trina is miquella, it's theorized and it's speculated in the lore, and the miquella's lilly and st. Trina's lilly fo look similar but nothing outright state they are the same. So if we believe st Trina is NOT miquella, then this fits the theory nicely that St. Trina is Melina
I do enjoy this theory, the arms are definitely similar. I hope we get some actual answers from the DLC.
Glad I’m not going crazy lmao, Messmers hands look like an un-scared version of the cocoon hands! Me too, me too!
The only issue I’m having is what about the nascent butterflies? We see a clear distinction between the smouldering butterflies
In all of fromsoftwares trailers for their dlc’s, we never see the final boss, maybe whoever’s butterfly that is, is the final boss?
what is the ring on the cocoon hand? the ring is missing on mizmar hand, i think the person shaped with tree roots is not Miquela but something like mother and Miquela was in her womb. i think Miquela shape change because he put himself on cocoon so he will grow but first he put him self on Helge tree so he will get it grace, instead he has been kidnaped and had injected with cursed blood so he transformed to this new shape
I actually made a video about this not too long ago, it’s quite a long topic to write out, I highly recommend going to check that out :)
Interesting video! Dunno if i buy it, but it would be cool to see.
Perhaps something in your favour is names: "mesmer" sounds like its derived from "mesmerise", something miquella (and st trina) are quite good at.
The mark on Melina's eye seems to be a clawmark that seals it shut. It fades in the flames of frenzy, thus allowing her to realize her past connection to the Gloam Eyed Queen, whatever that may be. There are really so many details about eyes in ER that it's hard to say that two characters with eye stuff going on constitutes a tangible connection. You have to look at the specific nature of the eyes.
100% agree, I made the connection between st Trina and the stuff in this video, because Miquella is genuinely regarded as St Trina, just thought it added a bit more evidence considering we never seen St Trinas eyes, only that she is symbolised as having one just like Messmer :)
The best kind of video that people are hesitant to make for some reason
I’m so glad you enjoyed! I think it has to do with the reception you sometimes used to receive to these kind of videos, not so much now, but a couple years back you’d get flamed and berated for schizo theories, that sort of hate for them seems to have passed now which I’m super happy about! But I think the stigma still remains somewhat which makes people hesitant to make these type of videos!
Scarlett Rot takes memories away and Malenia disposed of her unalloyed needle when she bloomed on Radahn, which was a long time ago before we find her. She then tells us that she's been dreaming, which shows her memories are fading.
Great points! Totally agree!
Melina being Miquella makes more sense than mesmer
I talked about it at the end, but I do think both theories can play along with each other :)
@@theemeraldgecko310 fr, but Melina just has more connections than mesmer
Both dont make any sense to me. Melina cant be Miquellas spirit alter ego form St. Trina cause Miyazaki confirmed that St. Trina would appear in the DLC and if we burn Melina in the main game she dies which would make that impossible. Miyazaki also said that there would be no changes to the main story but Melina being spirit alter ego Miquella (St. Trina) it would affect the main story quite a lot. This just completely debunks this theory.
The only convincing theory to me out there about Melina is that she is/was the Gloam Eyed Queen and the DLC could finally confirm this which wouldnt affect the main story and just be additional information. It would also go hand in hand with the frenzied flame secret ending cutscene. Her being burned and bodyless is a reference to when she lost to Maliketh as the GEQ. He burned her flesh with the rune of death even leaving burn maks on her spirit self. The blade of calling is found in a secret room where she was plotting her moves as the GEQ long ago. Her leading the Godskins and going against the erdtree obviously was a cardinal sin. Marika veiled her existance as a result and this is why we never read anything about her, like Messmer.
As for why Miquella cant be Messmer its simple. We literally see Miquella at the end of the DLC trailer plus Miyazaki also confirmed that we saw Miquella on the first screenshot from Shadow of the Erdtree riding torrent. Miquella is also cursed with eternal childhood. Messmer is a new character and another child of Marika most likely responsible for the first burning of the Erdtree which is why Marika veiled his existance. They even made a CE statue for Messmer, not Miquella. Also "The Impaler" wouldnt make any sense as a title for Miquella. Hes never described as a violent figure, he "weilds love to shrive clean the hearts of men".
@@EldenLord. it's just a theory, A GAME THEORY! Thx for watching :3
Messmer is Miquella
I like this theory a lot. There is some poetry in the idea that something that is adored as something divine, pure and full of light being an illusion and underneath is something dark, impure and what people believe to be rotten (but perhaps it is not truly rotten if you have an open mind), while at the same time what people believe to be "rotten" and impure may (depending on how Messmer's character arc plays out) be divine, pure and full of light underneath. It would add an interesting duality to Miquella, having this one incredibly cruel side, the impaler that led a war so terrible that it can't be put to song, and another side - perhaps his repenting self to make up for his cruel actions after the war (whether you think that's morally possible is another question) - that tries to heal and bring about positive change.
Some points I thought about off the top of my head without checking the lore:
- The hair of St. Trina's statue (esp. the strands winding upwards) look a lot like serpents/snakes to me
- Snakes are often associated with hypnosis/ people (wrongly) believe snakes can hypnotize their prey. Hypnosis is not exactly the same as sleeping but can often lead to a similar state (or a dream-like state), esp. if you conduct a session while lying down. So perhaps this could be seen as a loose connection with St. Trina's sleep powers.
- Snakes are often associated with seduction (at least in Biblical mythology) which could mirror Miquella's power to charm, bewitch and compell people, esp. if you add the hypnosis angle to it. His knights seem to be like under a spell - or as if they have been hypnotised.
I don't necessarily think it means he is evil. It could even illustrate an interesting duality (again), with Messmer's snakes being dangerous, burning, and weapons (think of the snake-like strands of black flames in the sky during the war scenes) whereas Miquella's snake reference is metaphorical and is an indirect, interpersonal power as opposed to Messmer's snakes, with them being an embodiment of direct violence.
- Hypnosis of snakes is often associated with looking them in the eye. This could fit both the eye on St. Trina's statue and the point that Miquella's eyes are kept such a suspicious mystery (either hidden or closed). It could either be metaphorical to emphasise the hypnosis/enchantment theme on a purely symbolic level or Miquella's power of compelling people and St. Trina's sleep powers could actually be tied to their eyes.
- If you take it even further you could also draw a connection between snakes, Miquella's haligtree and the biblical story of the snake in the tree, who offered a gift of liberation to those eating its fruit of knowlege.
Now there are several layers to it. Miquella is supposed to be a genius so the fruit of knowledge could be a metaphor for the powers/magic/tools etc. he passes on to the beings following him.
If he also knows the truth about the world (and the possible lies surrounding it) then following him ("accepting his fruit of knowledge") could eventually lead to people being intellectually liberated from the lies of ER's world.
In this context the tree with the snake can be seen as a counterforce or alternative to God/Marika: if you follow the snake you reject the latter's order and aim to live by a new order of truth and self-determination (potentially - if that is Miquella's plan, that is). I think this is why the haligtree with Miquella/"the snake" is a refuge for everything/everyone that is impure in the eyes of the golden order and provides them with an alternative opportunity at life.
- In a sense you could interpret these as (very loose) Lucifer parallels. Though it does not mean that Miquella has to be bad. It could also be a subversion of the original Lucifer with him being in the "right" (as far as this is possible in ER) and God/Marika being the true oppressive force.
Him divesting himself of his flesh (a culmination of his slow but steady deviation from the golden order and him forging an alternative path) could symbolise his fall. Lucifer was also said to be fair and beautiful (though in this case it might be a deception) just like Miquella, which provides a stark contrast to Messmer's look, who seems quite demonic and devilish and the setting he is presented in within the trailer appears very hellish. In the promo art he is also shown sitting on a throne in the lands of shadows, which could be an allusion to him being the "king of hell", whereas the lands between are (supposedly) heaven.
I don't necessarily think Miquella (and/or Messmer) are a full-on Lucifer reference but perhaps some aspects of his story influenced Miquella's (and/or Messmer's) writing should he in fact be Messmer.
Sorry, perhaps all of this is super tinfoil-hatty but it came to my mind while watching the video.
That Mesmer is Miquella was my first thought as i saw the Trailer too. And since Miquella is "Mesmerising" (is it spelled like that? 😅). So i don't think this theory is not too wild to me 😅
DUDE I bloody forgot to mention it in the video, that line in the description for the Messmer statue was what started this all of, fromsoftware literally say that about Messmer mesmerising!!! I’m glad you don’t find it outlandish, I think there’s merit to this, but I understand why some might think its bat shit insane!!
I think Marika knew how wrong the Golden Order was the entire time, but even a god cannot overcome the will of the people.
I absolutely love the idea of the people rebelling against the tyranny of a monarchy, I doubt it but I hope we get something along these lines in the dlc!
this makes more sense than the melina being miquella theory imo. the plot hole for me in that is the fact that we wouldnt know otherwise who the gloam eyed queen is. and i think its obvious its melina, everything adds up for her to be her. The theory presented in this video is genius and seems like the kind of literary device that FROM soft would use in their lore. The secret of Radagon being Marika could very well be foreshadowing the truth of Miquella being Messmer. It's really quite a mess to predict the DLC isnt it.
I’m not really an over emotional guy, but this nearly brought tears to my eyes man, it’s super sweet, thank you so much! I do agree with what you’re saying, Melina is a perfect fit for the gloam eyed queen, I love Timdiggitys video, but if Melina is Miquella that means the gloam eyed queen is Miquella?
By the way just thought I’d say this in regards to Melina, she has pink hair which is quite literally a lighter shade of red…. Hey that’s all I’m gonna say.
Thanks so much for the lovely comment it means the world!
@@theemeraldgecko310 np lol :3
hmm. but the gloam eyed queen was like marika, so she may have been a god that serves an outer god, like marika serves the greater will. With malenia being cursed to hold the outer god of rot, maybe miquellas curse was even more similar that we thought. i always thought he kinda lucked out in comparison to his sisters curse. afterall, the gloam eyed queen shares her connections with sleep with miquella, not with melina
@@abereu8405 except Marika was the gloam eyed queen you silly goose
I just read the title, and FUCK I wouldn't be surprised.
Miquella is the sneakiest bugger ever, I don’t think we’ve even scratched the surface of what he is!!
Just the title with the rambling background in the thumbnail made me laugh. I haven't watched but I already know this is going to be unhinged
Did it live up to the unhinged hype lmao?
Awesome video! We are so close to hopefully getting some more answers, ty for the content!
All we can do is cross our fingers and pray the dlc has some answers lmao! Thank you so much, honestly means the world 🙏
I literally thought I was the only one who thought this
You’re not alone! Fingers crossed this helps open up people to the possibility!
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks Mesmer is Miquella. You're the first one I hear talking about this! 👌🏻
I’m honestly surprised it hasn’t been talked about before, imo it seems like the most likely option! Thank you for the kind words!
What makes you think that??
Not sure if that was meant to em or MRx, do you mind me asking what you mean gate?
@@theemeraldgecko310 It's for MrX, don't worry
My first thought with the Trailer was "Oh so he's called Mesmer? Like mesmerize? Like what you'd expect of Miquella?
So that's probably exactly not what it is, it feels too obvious. Right?
To add onto what you’re saying, fromsoftware literally say mesmerising in the Messmer statue preview video!
I watched another video that said Miquella, St.Trina and Messmer were all parallels to Griffith, Femto, and the Moonlight boy. This made me think of the elongated limbs. I dont think anyone else has mentioned the long limbs yet.
One of the best theories I've heard in a long while... ratatoskr needs to see this, he will be impressed.
Seriously dude you don’t know how much that means to me, thank you so much!!!
I didn’t seem random to release the trailer one month before the release of the DLC. Lots of room for speculation, which is all of the fun.
So Messmer represents everything that is blasphemous to the golden order but the trailer also says that he burns everyone who is stripped of the grace of gold.
So if Miquella is in fact Messmer then why would he grow the haligtree, a place where everyone stripped of the grace of gold could live? i don’t quit see why he would do something like that, the goals of messmer, miquella and melina just don’t really line up for me for them being the same person.
But you are definitely right, the person in the cocoon looks nothing like miquella although that doesnt really have to mean anything, he doesnt really look like messmer either, apart from the limbs.
But at the end of the trailer we see Miquella in the form that he is always associated with nothing really makes sense here I am so confused
Can’t agree more, this shit is so confusing, I feel as if we’re missing a vital piece of the puzzle, hopefully the dlc will hold that piece!
Maybe the person at the end isn’t Miquella….
@@theemeraldgecko310 yes your definitely right but like you said something is missing that would explain everything
@Klauspetergrandel 100% dude!
I think the erdtree itself is Miquella using mimic veil
Dude this is so crazy and I love it
Male is said to”I slept for so long”
Did st trina/miquela put her to sleep, to what end?
Maybe Miquella put her to sleep so she wouldn’t have to deal with the fact Miquella was up and going? I don’t know, that or she was just having a nappy after her fight with radahny boy
Babe come quick a new schitzo lore theory just dropped.
Miquela is actually the snake puppet at the end of the Dark Souls 3 Ashes of Ariandel DLC
Miquella is officially snake boy
Me seeing the thumbnail:
"...WHAT?!"
I hope that was a good reaction lmaoooo
@@theemeraldgecko310 Well I enjoyed the theory. Let me subscribe sorry forgot to earlier.
@@anonfinally1692 thank you I’m soooo glad you enjoyeddd
Also forgot to say there’s no need to apologise whatsoever
@@theemeraldgecko310 Well you deserve more. It was entertaining. Actually have a sort of crazy theory will you mind it I will say it here?
My first impression after the trailer was that Mesmer is Miquella and st.Trina was just an alias that miquella used to walk among people
Great point!!! Miquella is rapped up in so many lies, fingers crossed the dlc unravels them!
Also: Nice Theory! I dig it!
Thank you so much! I’m glad you enjoyed it :))))))
Ngl I’ve always had a thought that Mesmer is miquella mines just a little different
I’m super duper curious now, what differs in you’re theory?
well im not sure if you've seen vaatividya's video called the lore of elden ring is cursed but when it came out i watched it and he mentioned that there's another god named the formless mother. since mohg has the blood of the formless mother and in his boss intro he came out of miquellas cacoon, i feel like he cursed miquella with the blood of the formless mother resulting in messmer as in the trailer he has similar blood flame to mohg.@@theemeraldgecko310
I've always been curious about how life's time is divided for Marika/Radagon. Are both always alive, coming to a consensus for every decision while in the same body? Or does one gain control internally, somehow? Or one sleeps, and the other wakes?
With your theory in mind, I think "which entity was birthed" becomes the crucial question. I might argue that BOTH Radagon and Miquella weren't actually born. Rather, Marika and Messmer were the originally born entities.
Imagine the life cycle of eternal youth. You probably age baby > toddler > tween > teen. Maybe Marika or Radagon, in an attempt to ward off the outer gods influence, split Messmer into two beings. Miquella, the baby/toddler. Messmer, the tween and teen. And then, either Radagon or Marika chose Miquella and banished Messmer. Perhaps, divesting Messmer in the same way Radagon was seperated from Marika while with Rennala.
Perhaps, Radagon's story goes deeper. Maybe he was a "gift" to Marika by the Golden Order. Or - more likely - a stipulation to her godhood that allowed the golden order to have some amount of control over her at all times. Marika shattered the ER, Radagon attempted to mend it.
"O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self."
We are told by the Finger Reader crones that Marika is trapped in the Erd Tree as punishment for the shattering. But none of us trust the finger readers, two fingers, or the Golden Order on anything else. Why have we trusted that Marika was ever actually jailed in the tree? Especially since we are confronted by Radagon. Maybe the "Radagon is Marika" twist is two-fold. Maybe, he was a part of Marika and isn't anymore.
Maybe, instead of meeting the Gloam Eyed Queen, we meet Marika in the DLC.
But idk man! Excited to find out and be proven wrong on all fronts :D Thanks for sharing!
Dude I’m in love with this theory, it’s incredible!!! Amazing dude, honestly amazing!!! I would love to see Marika in the dlc would be soooo cool!
Hmm, maybe Miquella has the same or somewhat similar ability to Marika being different people at once. Melina and Messemer being his alter egos. Im thinking in the DLC these alter egos are actually "halves" of Miquella that separated to some degree. Miquella's original golden hair mirrors Marika and Messmer's red mirroring Radagon while Melina is what he uses to hide the fact that it's him. Something went awry with the transformation somewhat, probably as a side effect of Mohg taking him from the Haligtree.Miquella probably transformed into a underdeveloped Messmer in the egg as a fear-response or a defense mechanism or something and probably was in a half-dead or slumbering state during or after his kidnapping and we and Mohg mistook it as a mutation as what's in the egg looks nothing like Miquella.
Mirroring the underdeveloped Messmer, Melina seems to be underdeveloped as well, confused about her identity and shit. But what she remembers is her objective as there seems to be a tunnel vision to her as this is her sole focus instead of figuring out who she is, which I think is a product of the fracturing or half-developed state of the alter ego's mind. Or Melina was another alter-ego he created at the last minute so he could achive his goals in the Lands Between without drawing unwanted attention to himself from the Golder Order and/or the Outer Gods. Her purpose in the Lands Between is probably connected to what Miquella wants to achieve within the Lands of Shadow. I also think Miquella's exploits in the Lands of Shadow drew the attention of the Formless Mother and wanted the Messmer alter ego to be more dominant, hence directing Mogh to kidnap him from the Haligtree, with this "Mohgwyn Dynasty" farce she formulated in Mohg's head so she could get what she wants. She knew what would happen with this kind of intervention. This prompted Miquella to create Melina so that wouldn't happen again.
With all that in mind, I'm speculating Miquella was tapping into the profane and using or examining it for an end-goal he deems "good". This goes with Messmer having the blasphemous Blood flame and the snakes and how Melina is connected to death (having the same moveset with the Black Knife Assassins, connection to destined death with the Frenzied Flame ending etc.). His sleep in the egg was probably him trying to achieve whatever he was planning in the Lands of Shadow. Was it to merge the profane with the divine? Was he crafting some weird rune that uses both to be able to cure Malenia? I really can't say, but a combination of these factors is what Miquella would have gotten if he won and actually wasn't kidnapped and woke up in the Haligtree. But Mogh fucked it all up when he kidnapped Miquella. My guess is Miquella is now keeping the Messmer alter ego at bay in the Lands of Shadow as he could probably fully awaken in the egg and cause problems the Lands Between. I think we have a choice to let Messmer awaken in the Lands Between as a DLC ending, adding the "Age of Blood" once we become Elden Lord.
This was honestly such a blast to read! I’ve been noticing as of late parallels between fromsoftwares games, something you just said made me remember, wasn’t Manus split in different fragments which then became different people…
Super interesting theories thank you for sharing them!!!
Here's another schitzo topic that would neatly roll into this one. Marika is the Formless Mother.
Hear me out. There are two "Outer Gods" related to blood. There's Formless Mother and her Mogh thing and there's the Blood Star and her connection to briars of sin.
Marika we see is a bloodless corpse. If we go with the theory that Radagon is a Silver Tear similar to Asimi cut quest, we can extrapolate that he took over Marika's body, merged into her and overpowered her as she broke the Elden Ring.
The Blood Star can be contacted if you blind yourself or are blinded as punishment. There are Marika(and Radagon) Soreseal and Scarseal items that clearly are eyes. So Marika is blind and could, theoretically, have seen the Blood Star.
I theorize that Marika's only way to escape was to flee as blood. We see Mogh turn into a puddle of blood, perhaps she did the exact same thing. And when she did, she freed Mogh from his imprisonment and went on with her master plan. Mogh's servants lead us along the way. Varre killed our finger maiden, Bloody Finger Jerren got us to kill Radann.
Oh, what a twist that would be. Mogh's whole thing was looking for a mother figure and finding it in an outer god. But what if that outer god is just his own mother posing as one, channeling Blood Star's powers.
I’m actually in love with this theory, I love it so bloody much! I love the idea that Marikas is just out here trying to make up lost time with her son by posing as an omnipotent outer god lmao
This was the first thing I thought when I saw the trailor. That is Mesmars arm.
I know it’s a bit loose but I really think it might be!!
The old man in the crucible statues we see is burned.Look at his face.
Oh shit is it? I hadn’t noticed!!!
The micolash wolf howling got me. 😆
Yes!!! I have been thinking about the lanky arms!!! I did not conclude that Miq’ does not exist, but I do think that the cocoon holds Messmer!
I’m glad I’m not alone in thinking this! IMO it makes so much sense!!
Interesting theory, but I think that if Melena is Miquella and Mesmer it is possible only if each had their own personality, because Melena genuinely wants to make you an Elden Lord the whole game, except for Franzy Flame ending, yet Mesmer questions Marika's choice to lordship us, Tarnished, such devoid of grace. Or it might be a deliberate move by devs to lead us in the wrong direction with the trailer, and his phrase isn't related to the player character
Ive honestly been doing some thinking and I’m honestly not 100% on Miquella being Melina, the bit I am pretty sure on is my theory of Miquella being Messmer, I feel if everyone is Miquella it’s gonna take away from the story we have?
That’s such an interesting thought, Fromsoftware red herring?
These Theories get more outlandish as time goes on, give it a Week until Release and the entire DLC is just a matrix like fever dream from which Godwyn and Miquella will wake up from like a simulation at the end.
You know… that isn’t such a bad theory
I like the idea of Mesmer being controlled by Miquella, either possesed or transformed, (Mesmerising , his name is a play of words)
I really do as well!!! It’s not just you dude, fromsoftware literally say Mesmerising in the statue preview!!!
To play along, what if being placed in the caccoon was a means of manifesting himself out of the land of shadow?
Possibly! I mean according to Malenia he was in the cocoon originally to become a full god, so maybe!
I am all for the "accepted" lore being challenged. I have seen the same stuff rehashed so many times without being challenged, despite having little to back it up. As long as people are willing to mine the games for every small detail and compile them together into a narrative, I will watch and read them and appreciate their work, even if I don't necessarily agree. At least people are thinking about laterally about the world of Elden Ring! More crack theories straight into my veins until the DLC, please.
Can’t agree more, I think that’s why I make these type of videos, I’m a massive fan of fromsoftware and I was so sick of the same stuff being reused over and over again. Thank you for the lovely comment, means a lot to me!
More liquid crack theories on the way for you’re veins!
Marika was forced to join with her other self as all empyreans.Marika might be the formless mother because she has no body to use.
Dude you’re theories are so out there and I love it
This is so unhinged i love it
Nah formless mother is another alien meteor being like the EB and the others. But blood.
Blood thorn sorcery is from Blood Star, while bloodflame is from Formless Mother. They are not the same. Like of Asteal are EB are not the same, but use simlar visual light beans and sparkle bombs.
@@kamantariq2513 sure!! There are lots of alien meteors all attacking the planet and maybe each other. See those whirlpools on the map? Those aliens I'm also worried about. Tarnished don't swim.
i think the bewitching branch is an interesting item to look at
Can’t agree more! The reason I didn’t mention it, is because I think the bewitching branch is a small version of other unalloyed gold incantations!
The body in the cocoon is the same model as Morgott after he’s defeated.
That has no specific explanation in game as to why it happens.
I don’t think we can read to much into the body in the egg not looking like any other depiction of Miquella in game. Something about the body of a demigod being separated from the soul.
We see this with Godwyn’s corpse devolving after his assassination, and we from the DLC that Miquella has separated his own soul from the body inside that husk. 🤷♀️
I was honestly stunned when I first heard it was the same model, I felt so stupid, though saying that, I find it odd they would re-use the same asset on something so important as the entrance to the dlc, that is unless they had something in mind?
Because Morgott and Mogh are twins, just their Omen horns grew differently. This is how Mogh is supposed to look like without Omen stuff all over him.
WOW! This one was REALLY interesting! I've also heard from someone else, that it's actually MESSMER in Moghwyn Palace! Oh, "Miquella" maybe having snakes, is like Gwyndolin in Dark Souls 1! He, who was raised as a girl, due to his powers, ALSO can cast POWERFUL illusions, like the one over all of Anor Londo, making it look how it USED to! If ALL, or at least, MOST of this is true, that pretty much confirms Messmer being a Empyrean, because his power level is supposed to be INSANE in the DLC! Maybe "Miquella" took on certain aspects of Godwyn, his half-brother, who was LEADER of the Dragon Cult, which formed after he bonded with Fortissax, and his sister was Priestess of the Dragon Cult, who Roundtable Knight Vyke was STRONGLY associated with, before he screwed up, and took the Frenzied Flame! OH S%#@! I JUST thought of this, maybe THAT'S why Lansexax was in Leyndell, she first pops up in the Altus Plateau, THEN in Leyndell! You know what is also in Leyndell, locked up DEEP below it, the Chamber of the Three Fingers! This is a very loose theory, BUT, maybe she was trying to find a way to CURE Vyke of the Frenzied Flame, like Fortissax tried and failed to cure Godwyn from his Deathblight! Lansexax also failed, but is STILL around Leyndell, trying to protect others from coming into contact with the Frenzied Flame, trying to keep other Tarnished far away as possible from it! Because she didn't want the same thing that happened to Vyke, to befall to anyone else! If "Miquella" is Melina, and if "Miquella" is actually Messmer (which would explain the snake thing), like I said before, Gwyndolin, had snakes too, and was born "impure" as well, IF ALL of this is true, no wonder they waited till the DLC for this, we could be talking about a being of such UNFATHOMABLE power, it NEEDED a DLC to explain! You're not crazy, it actually would explain A LOT!
I’m so soooooooo glad you liked this one so much! As always absolutely loved you’re theories you always have such interesting and amazing theories!!!
The dlc is gonna incredible, I can’t wait!!!!!
I hope you’ve been doing okay?
I've been saying that's Messmer in the egg since the trailer came out.
Really? Shit you beat me to it man, props to you!
I’m with some of the other commenters I think there are too many holes in this theory for it to have grounds for belief yet, but a topic I think you would do amazing with based off of watching this video is the idea on why some empyreans seem to have 2 forms and others do not, maybe all empyreans have 2 forms one golden haired and one red haired where the golden haired one is more clever and the red haired one is more powerful one. My current working theory for the pairs:
Marika and radagon
Ranni and Godwen (this is so crackpot but my favorite pairing for the lore implications)
Miquella and st trina
Mesmer and the gloam-eyed queen (also love this one)
Feel free to have this idea for a video and if you want I’ll gladly walk you through how I got to these pairings for your research :)
Honestly, I love the idea. It may be crazy, but that's exactly what we need now, before DLC.
Thank you, seriously that means the absolute world to me!!
@@theemeraldgecko310 You are very welcome! I had alot of fun watching your video, cant wait for more. Im not trying to be sweet, i mean it.
@LichoLetum regardless of if you tried it was so thank you!
Well... Not to be a buzz kill... But the model used for miquella inside the cocoon, is the exact character model used for morgott when he is about to die :)
I honestly am so blown away this is the case!!! Thank you for letting me know!
Makes you wonder though, why would fromsoftware re-use an asset for something so important as the dlc, if it didn’t have something important to it?
Buts there like this whole thing about a soulless demi god and the sun needing to be swallowed by an eclipse to give this demi god a soul and it's some how tied to miquella.
There’s so many unknowns, fingers crossed we’ll get the answers we need from the dlc!
You are cooking….
Thank you so much! Was worried the theory wouldn’t be received well due to it being so wacky!
I enjoy your channel mate but you need to turn up your mic 🙏
Alright dude! It was too loud last time, so I turned it down, mb dude!
Honestly it makes more sense than "Oh yeah, there is another child of Merika, literally everyone in the lands between forgot to mention him. Oops."
Seriously, sorry homie just forgot to mention the insanely powerful snake fire Demi-god, yeah he also is like some king, sorry forgot to say bro
I believe it’s probably more likely that Mesmer was stripped from the lands between’s history books akin to the nameless king in dark souls due to something he did
@@aidenbrenneman2302 that’s honestly a great parallel, wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the route they go down!
@@aidenbrenneman2302 Yeah but there were statues and lore of the ostracized son throughout the DS series, there is nothing like that for Mesmer. NK was hinted at and planned ahead for, if they do the same story with Mesmer its just like a lazy retcon.
@@recordingstudiotechuntil the dlc releases you have no idea as to what may have been related to messmer. Such as the snake being considered blasphemous, we're never told why. Or the ash in Leyndell. The gloam eyed queen. An ancient defeated enemy was wiped from history. And the only remnants of her are the godskin, and her sword. A sword no person in this world would ever find if not for our character. If one of her children burn the symbol of their order, she'd probably bury that even deeper.
The way I take it, we're playing inside Marika's mind and we're basically experiencing her grief. It's a very common theme in videogames, like the Hoyoverse (Genshin Impact and Star Rail) games, the Final Fantasy franchise but more importantly the Shin Megami Tensei and Persona games. In the Shin Megami Tensei and Persona games, the theme is always about overcoming death, and these stories take place in the unconscious. There are a bunch of clues that basically tell the story of who has passed away. Tarot cards represent the archetypes within the human psyche, and those are basically represented by the demi-gods.
At the core of the story, we have the triquetra, which represents life (the bonds you create), death (the death of somebody you had that bond with) and rebirth (overcoming that loss and learning to move on). Trying to overcome death, creating new life and duality. As above, so below.
So, there are two scenarios, but both are tied to the same idea. There was a complication with twins during a pregnancy. Either Marika is the mother or Marika is the surviving twin. We're participating in the Sophia's journey, where you don't blindly believe everything that's being told to you and how you have to experience things yourself and come to your own conclusions. The persona mask that the Marika person has been wearing, is starting to show cracks. Basically, we're learning about the loss of one of the twins, while also trying to overcome the loss of that twin. Miquella's Haligtree is a retelling of what happened to the other twin, represented by Messmer. This story also spirals through Darian & Devin, a story based on Castor and Pollux.
Another in game situation that spirals that story is Rennala's situation. Rennala is basically Lena, who had twins with Tyndareus and Zeus. In Norse mythology, that story is very similar to what happened to Rind, Rindr and Rinda, but instead it's Odin and Loki.
There is also an unobtainable item in Elden Ring, called the Entwining Umbilical Cord, which might explain what happened to the twin that died.
In order to move on, we sometimes need to address conflicts within ourselves in order to move on, which normally happens in the unconscious.
In Persona 3, we go into the unconscious to overcome the loss of the main character's parents, by dealing with this conflict in the unconscious which they call the 25th hour (sleep). In Persona 5R, it's the story of Takuto Maruki, who creates a contract with Azathoth/Adam Kadmon to remove pain and suffering from the world, trying to make what happens in the unconscious the main reality. In Final Fantasy 10, the main character goes into the unconscious to deal with the death of his father. In Star Rail, after releasing patch 2.0., they're dealing with the death of several people in the unconscious world, called Penacony. And in Genshin Impact, the story is about two twins that were separated, where one twin is looking for the other twin but hasn't processed yet that the other twin is dead. The dead twin has been replaced with something similar to a mimic tear, to deal with the pain. In that game, you're basically on the Sophia's journey to learn how to deal with the death of the sibling.
It's a fake god story, the ignorant demiurge is the main character itself.
Ooooooooo... idk if I started sayin it was messmer in the cocoon or not. But I have been sayin for a while now.... even down to the hand thing. There's a reason why in the dlc trailer they put emphasis on "golden miquellas" hands and arms, AND messmers hand and arms, for a reason... EVERYTHING that makes it on screen is on there for a reason... it's all meant to be there
Can’t agree more! Fromsoftware are bloody geniuses, they’ve done it before like in the 2019 teaser trailer, everything we need to know is right here we just don’t know it yet!
So miquella and staint trina are alter egos to messemer the impaler. Cool theory.
Pretty much!! Thank you so much!
A bit too many holes in this one for me, chief, but I enjoy crack-pot theories like this! You do have a point with Miquella’s true appearance tho…
Thank you so much!! If you have the time, could I please ask what holes there are? Not saying their isn’t just curious :)
@@theemeraldgecko310My thoughts were that Miquella being Messmer is unlikely. This is because:
1. Messmer says in the trailer, “Those stripped of the grace of gold shall meet… the embrace of Messmer’s flame [death].” Messmer isn’t lying; this oath helps explain the Tarnished’s conflict with him. We also know that, to reach the Land of Shadow, Miquella divested himself “of all things golden.” So, if Messmer and Miquella are the same, this means that Miquella would want to kill himself? This motive makes little sense to me.
2. Your point about the cocoon-body’s hand may not be lore related. The cocoon-body is a reused model; it is Morgott’s after he is defeated in Leyndell. So, using this as evidence is saying the same about Messmer and Morgott. Admittedly, this is a weak rebuttal because Miyazaki tends to do stuff like this for good reason.
3. Melania is the “Blade of Miquella” because she fought his battles for him. Obviously, Messmer does not seem the defenceless type.
4. Messmer seems to have been in the Land of Shadow for a long time. This is evident by how the land is “set ablaze by Messmer’s Flame” and how Messmer sits on a throne overlooking the Land of Shadow in the promotional art. This does not align with Miquella divesting himself of his flesh; he wouldn’t need to if he was Messmer and he was already in the Land of Shadow.
That was a bit of a rant. But, like I said, you’ve got some good points about Miquella not having red hair and Messmer having it. Something is awry, just not a double-identity imo.
100% get where you’re coming from!
Firstly in regards to Messmer, I think yes although he says that I don’t think it’s 100% that clear cut, Messmer also I’m the same line says “mother would thoust lordship sanction in one so bereft of light?” Imo, I think yes he is devoid of grace but I think he still at least when it comes to us, he feels a need to get rid of us? We are lore wise sleeping with his mom and are by proxy his enemy, or maybe he has some sense of loyalty to his family and that’s why he needs to fight us? It’s hard to really say, we’ll have to wait till the dlc!!!
Secondly, I honestly had no idea about the corpse being a re-used asset, that’s on me! Though like you said, fromsoftware hardly does anything for no reason, so I’m not throwing it out just yettttt
Thirdly, I agree if Messmer is Miquella he could fight his own battles, but that would require him to embrace his true self to fight, imo makes a lot more sense to get someone to trust to be you’re sword, saves him having to destroy his golden lie.
Fourthly, the shattering is said to have happened an eon ago, it is super duper confusing as the characters in game don’t seem to act like it’s been thousands of years, but it has. The point between the dlc and the shattering is possibly thousands upon thousands of years apart, imo that’s enough time for a land to be engulfed by Flamesssssss
Sorry if this came off as rude in response, it wasn’t my intention, just wanted to try and explain my thoughts a bit better :)
If he's using the mimic's veil my question to you because I genuinely can't remember. When we use the veil do we ever turn into an animal or another person or just an inanimate object?
We can turn into both! We're quite limited with it, but I feel as Miquella is almost a full god, I feel he'd be able to use it fully! Kinda like we can use scarlet aeonia but nowhere near the same as Malenia!
@@theemeraldgecko310Thanks for the answer, I was definitely using it wrong in that case because I never turned myself into other than inanimate objects.
Also since I'm back from the previous video I figured I'd update you and mention no audio harshness in this one.
@@Nathan_Coley I totally get why you'd be confused, could be wrong but I think its only the mountaintop of the giants where you can turn into animals!
@@Nathan_Coley Thats honestly so great to hear thank you! Just out of curiosity did you think the music was too low?
At this point miquella is even the turtle priest.
Honestly the young miquella got into so much knowledge trying to bring back his brother and cure his sister from the scarlet rot that i feel such big tasks got him into finding a wat to split his body and conscious into multiple beings. But who knows until the dlc comes out 🤷🏽♂️
You know… turtle priest being Miquella isn’t such a bad idea….
I 100% agree! I guess we’ll just have to wait till the dlc!!!
No one's motivations make any sense without Miquella
100% agree!!
Hmm, it's more likely the player character is a mimic of Miquella
The way radagon is a mimic of marika
Rogier says "people want to trust you, I've seen it"
The dung eater, would kill a stranger to look at him... strangely spills his life story and goals to you
Torrent recognizes something about you.
Finally Melina says something everyone assumes is obvious
"One of his kind will surely seek the Elden ring , which may violate the golden order"
The issue is
She absolutely can Not be speaking of tarnished
Bc the tarnished were brought back and given grace back to seek the Elden ring.
Gideon confirms marika wants the tarnished to seek the Elden ring.
So who is Melina speaking of?!?
Someone who could succeed
Or is it just a coincidence that demigods start to drop when your random tarnished arrives?!??
I enjoy your theory but there's too much of told of Miquellas ability to compel love.
He sent his sister to fight Radahn , knowing she was completely outmatched
It's possible that miquellas effort to create an alternative to the golden order in using godwyns death to create death root and living in death as well as the albinaurics
This is life that does not require the red tree
The halig tree is literally the shadow of the erdtree
And maybe it didn't fail
If Miquella was able to use the halig tree to move his soul before mogg took his child cursed body
Then he could divest himself of his curse - leaving his body to grow without a soul , like godwyns
I love you’re theory of us being a mimic tear, it would add an even greater level to the cut mimic tear quest line if it gets re added in the dlc!!
Maybe she is talking about us, just not about us being tarnished but rather us being a mimic tear?
Amazing theories dude, sorry for the late reply!
I think Miquella, Marika, Mesmer, Melina, maybe even St. Trina, and the Gloam Eyed Queen are all either the same person or 2 or are all connected some how from something we don't know yet, I also think Marika made radagon her puppet and perhaps radagon is the one strung up in the eldin ring and not marika.
I 100% get where you’re coming from, I guess time will tell!!!
If that’s the case, maybe we’ll see Marika in the dlc?
@@theemeraldgecko310 well we are supposed to find out what she was doing or did in the land of shadow but when I think about it certain things don't add up with Marika or Miquella that and we know Marika's spells have to do with covering stuff up with veils or hiding stuff in general. There is something for sure going on maybe Marika is Miquella?
@@Ragnorok657 I don’t know if fromsoftware will go down that route, but I’m not throwing anything out just yet! I think it’d be a super cool twist!
What if Miquella has 2 different evolution paths present at the same time? 🪷🐍
Melina is his final form if he completes sleep 🤨
Mesmer is his final form when sleep gets corrupted by floodflame 🤔
Dude I love this theory it’s insane but I love it so much
The figure in malenia’s arena is supposed to be like a pregnant woman, not necessarily supposed to be Miquella. The cocoon is her womb. Anything is possible in ER more but I really don’t think Miquella would be gestating himself in a giant pregnant version of himself. It’s possible. But it just sounds like the least likely option.
There was never a Miquela. The was only Melania. She is forever youthfule and was forced to house scarlet rot. How else is she not dead?
Her trainer the blue dancer taught her movement counters rot. So she kept her mind and body moving even in sleep to keep her mind from roting away like what happened to Rhodan.
Melenia eternal youth and endless dreaming eventualy lead her to became the god of dreams St. Trina. And so, she made everyone "dream" of Mequela. Someone not burdened by rot. Somone who is everything she is not.A Radagon is Marika senario, but this time it's Mequela is Melenia. It became such a powerful dream, it compeled others to act in her or rather his favor.So strong Melenia started to see it. Talk to it. And the dream talk back. So strong the dream of Mequela became real. And so Mequela the twin of Melenia, the god of dreams the fierced empyrian was born.
Mohg's dream from St. Trina was of Mequela, a young girl in the possesion of Melenia. Not his half sister, just a dreamy girl traped inside a tree. One whom he could mary and bare children with.
Messmer I'd say is forcefully forgotten akin to Gwyn's 1st born. Cursed with flame or some shit
This has honestly gotta be one of my favourite theories OF ALL TIME, it’s incredible dude thank you so much for sharing it was a blast to read!!!!!!!
@@theemeraldgecko310 your welcome green lizard with a purple logo. XD
Feel free to expand on it if you want
@kamantariq2513 my dad made this logo for me like 7 and a half years ago lmao I love it
Honestly I’m not sure what to say, I love the theory dude!
When i first saw Messmer's pic I immediately understand that it is Miquella. It's fucking obvious? But i was a little bit disappointed because I don't want to beat Miquella, he is good little buddy, no fight, only cuddle.
It does seem obvious, to me at least! I guess we’ll have to wait till the dlc though!!
Mark my words, Melina is miquella, the act of divesting thyself of flesh created ranni, and Melina, a split of the faith of golden order cast him into the shadow realm, his alter ego Melina awoke at the base of the erdtree, miquellas faith was split into multiple pieces, that’s why Melina has torrent and can cast erdtree like incantations, but they also were of black knives to kill godwyn, it’s also why Melina has the clouded eye ending, her faith was shook, and ranni and Melina are basically a product of miquellas split
Someone please read this and comment
Oooooo I love this theory! It’s super cool! I guess we’ll have to wait till the dlc though to fully know!
Yes, yes! We must delve deeper! Only cowards would be afraid of eyes on the inside!
Although tbh, 3:26 you are kinda crazy. Those hands look nothing alike, you might need an intervention.
OUR EYES ARE YET TO OPENNNNNNNNNN
I probably am going crazy there to be fair 😂
St. Trina and Miquella were confirmed to be separate entities by Miyazaki in a recent interview.
Did he? That’s super interesting, where did he say that?
@@theemeraldgecko310 It's a Chinese interview. I believe BanditGames and Lost Protagonist have videos about it.
@@NickCombs Jesus how did I miss this? Thank you for letting me know
I feel like Mequilla is not in the cocoon and that is Messmer and they aren’t the same person
Not disproving, but I am curious what makes you think that?
@@theemeraldgecko310 cause to me the timeline makes more sense if Messmer was around Godwynn's time and he retaliated when Marika had him killed.
Could be totally bonkers crazy but I almost feel like Godwynn could have been a women and empyrean meant to be the next vassal, or Marika's lover (which brought about the omen curse in her children) and due to the sin which that implies in either case she was cursed by the greater will.
I find it odd Radagon kind of just exists out of nowhere and I wouldn't be surprised if he somehow has a tie in to Godwynn or is a personification of Marika's sin given that Mohg already exemplifies well... Incest and he was a product of it potentially. Almost seems like Godfrey was cast out as if he was impure but he had nothing to do with it.
Anyways to the point I believe Messmer has a close relationship to dragons as did Godwynn, potentially his brother (or sister?) and so he brought about the first burning and revolted against Marika's order for her sins.
If it happened recently it seems odd we don't know about it because there is knowledge of many other blasphemous things which the Golden Order would have will to cut ties with or hide. So if Messmer is a recent thing how is he so unknown? How did the land of shadow burn in an unsung battle after the shattering? To me it sounds a lot like the unsung battle was an unsung victory and that's why Marika is essentially just a husk and seemingly only Radagon's soul even still exists in that husk.
Tldr: Mequilla/Melania being Godwynn and Messmer, or Mequilla,Messmer, and Melania reborn via the amber egg as an attempt by Radagon to fix what Marika broke when Godwynn died/or Godwynn quite literally being Messmer and Mequilla having succeeded to ressurect him both make more sense to me than Mequilla being Messmer
Maybe it has to do with the blood flame? We know that fire was the only way to fight the scarlet rot? Maybe the blood flame was what he was searching for to cure Malenia, maybe it was created for that very specific reason? What if Miquella is the formless mother?
Super good point! I mean it is Mohgs thing, so it’d make perfect sense for it to also be Miquella’s thing!!!!!!! Miquella being the formless mother is so out there, but I love it, the formless mother reached out to mohgs mind just like Miquella maybe did with unalloyed gold… only question I have is, if Miquella is the formless mother, how does mohg draw on that power from Miquella?
@@theemeraldgecko310 Formless Mother. Mother. That doesn't have a form. Mogh's Mother that can shapeshift or doesn't have a set shape. That's the literal definition of Marika.
@@lockepersonal good point, I won’t lie it was past midnight when I responded to that comment was absolutely knackered, thank you for explaining!
What if Miquella and Melina tried to re-conjoin and became Messmer?
Fire seems to be the ignition for death/ rebirth, that’s why Marika/ Radagon is so aggressive about the Giants. I wonder after Miquella gave up his body to feed the Haligtree, realized his knowledge in the Lands Between wasn’t enough and began his journey in the Land of Shadow, saw an opportunity to become one again and became Mesmer? He allowed Mogh to burn his body with blood flame so that way they can reinvent themselves. I’m just spit balling here
Dude I love this theory so bloody much I can’t even describe how much, thank you so much for letting me know!
@@theemeraldgecko310 I always thought of Mesmer as a Demigod of Perfect Order. Because true order is chaos, it indulges in the light and the dark. Miquella openly welcomes the Misbegotten, the Albinuarics, and other scorned to his Haligtree, unlike his parents who openly reject, hide, and destroy any who oppose them. Marika and Radagon as a god is based on duality, a balance always divided. While Mesmer is a “true god” inviting the heretics as well as the most devout. A cut content twin blade we were going to receive from Miquella was the “Abundance and Decay Twinblade,” a weapon Im predicting we’ll see in dlc. Miyazaki also stated he included Mesmer sitting on a demigod’s throne to show he’s on equal playfield as the other gods, but I think that’s an understatement. Mesmer is no mere champion, or son of Marika he is a true god
I hadn’t thought of it like that, but you’re idea on what Messmer Symbolises makes a hell of a lot of sense! I guess we’re just gonna have to wait till the dlc for definite answers, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this theory of you’res turns out to be true!
I said the same about him being Mesmer. It's too obvious since his father is technically their mother too. I think Miquella took the split persona thing from Radagan
Also I do think that is Miquella in the cocoon because Mohg was trying to force him into adulthood if I recall correctly but I would love to be proved wrong
DUDE I THINK YOU'RE ONTO SOMETHING HOLY COW!!! I DIDNT EVEN NOTICE MIQUELLA IS THE ONLY CHILD OF RADAGON WHO IS BLOOOOOND!!!
I’m glad you liked ittttt, I genuinely think there’s some merit to this one, even if it sounds schizophrenic as shit
@@theemeraldgecko310 Schizo or not, I'm with you here! Between Melina and Messmer, there's clearly SOMETHING happening with Miquella but it's just not clear yet what that is. I'm also leaning a bit towards Ranni maybe also having something to do with it all with the spirit face, body burning, and sealed eye. Then there's still the St Trina stuff to reconcile as well!
Cheers for being here man!! I guess we’re just going have to wait till the dlc for definite proof! Thanks for the lovely comment!
@ziostorm thoughts?
Would be interesting to hear what he had to say!
Okay guys, I think were getting into the area where were hollowing. Maybe its time to take some humanity and go touch some New Moon Grass.
Dude we can’t do that, the amygdalas will get us!
@@theemeraldgecko310 Oh crap! You're right! But we need the grass!
@apolloisnotashirt but do we reallyyyyy
@@theemeraldgecko310 half moon grass is fine too
@@apolloisnotashirt only good one Fr
The only thing that is real is the Dung Eater's love for all the tarnished. He is the only one who never betrays us , lies to us, or leaves us to go to the moon. He is us and we are him.
He’s an evil bastard, but you’re right, so damn right.
I don't fully agree, however this theory has opened my eyes to the idea that the cocoon is likely Messmer! That would make so much sense anyway!
And that’s perfectly okay! It’s good to have different opinions! I’m so glad I helped open you’re eyes with that!!
@@theemeraldgecko310 It's the schitzo theories like this that keep the community churning out more and more thoughts that delve even deeper into the community. Throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks is actually a great way to figure out what the real truth might be by comparing what we see to the theory posed, without posing a theory, there could be no truth seeking! I love it even though I don't fully agree, gets me thinking.
@@theemeraldgecko310 Also you earned a sub with good content
@@WeyounSix thank you so much for the kind words, I love making videos, I’m glad you enjoyed this one!
maybe it's confirmation bias but I think this is a solid theory and a fresh angle. Thank you for this manic rant session.
Melania is the figurehead for the home base. She's a warrior not an empyrean. This could all be in Miquellas plan but if he's to come back then he'll still need his tree to fight the erd tree. Honestly I think the Ranni plan with Godwyn was a mutual plan. You have to remember all the children were on a council at one point and then war broke out. I think Ranni, Godwyn, and Miquella wanted to overthrow the golden order in some way so they devised the night of the black knives. We know the shadow of the urdtree is where Merica originally sprouted her urdtree. If Mesmer is Miquella then it would makes sense with your theory for a new way to lock up her childrens curses. Mohg and Morgott were locked away but that wouldn't due. Instead she hides them behind a veil. Miquella could have turned into Mesmer and we are to follow him, kill him and let Miquella be reborn into the lands between? Either way if Miquella wants to create his own Urdtree then He'll need a city and military around it for when he comes back. Very Berserk tbh. It doesn't help the Griffith accusations
Thank you I’m so glad you think so it means a lot!!
I’ve always been quite hesitant saying wether Godwyn was involved in his own death, but I can definitely see it happening! Hopefully this whole storyline is fully explored, I NEED answers!
I need to read Berserk so bad, I haven’t got round to it yet!
@@theemeraldgecko310 it's definitely worth the read but you can also look up the world tree in berserk to see. It seems to make sense with how the erdtree was made in a sense
@jake212 I’m going to read it! Is there places to online? Really!?! I didn’t know the world tree was in berserk!!
@@theemeraldgecko310 there's probably a few places. I need to catch up myself. I'm sure you can Google full manga and find something
@@theemeraldgecko310 Not sure if there's a way to DM you on youtube. I have a website that catalogs a bunch of sights you can go to
Im not sure if it's Mesmer in the cocoon or not, I've wondered that myself. But I don't think it's Miquella. I think the cocoon was a bait/distraction put in place by Miquella and everyone including Melenia fell for it. Dude is too smart to do something so dumb
I suppose we’ll just have to wait and see, this dlc is gonna be so bloody good
*clap* YAY! You fixed the audio!
WHOOOOO I made sure it wasn’t bugged lmao, so glad it isn’t!
I think Miquella asked to be impaled by Messmer. ;-)
You know I wasn’t thinking of going down that route, but it does fit with Miquella’s character to want to be “impaled” by his brother
@@theemeraldgecko310 It’s definitely the only other option I can see aside from Messmer just being another “aspect” of Miquella as you mentioned!!! Which I definitely believe is a credible theory!! This was an excellent video!
Thank you Yuri, you’re kind words honestly mean everything to me! Thank you so much!
Miquella, Melina, Messmer and St. Trina are one and the same person! Miquella was real, but he tried some even more grotesque method of self-incest than Marika, then he split into 4, one of them a Benzo addict and the other 3 prefer paint thinner, making their blood extremely combustible. Maybe the formless gasoline mother is also more important than the main game suggests.
I wouldn’t be surprised, Georgey boy Martin is involved he’s mega into that incest stuff. I would really love for that to be the case, we know so little about the formless mother, it’d be a shame to not do something massive with it!!
Your theory is not that bad, considering how Miyazaki and Fromsoft are fans of Berserk. The way you’re presenting it Miquella’s would be very similar to Griffith’s storyline. But I feel like it would be a bit too similar so they likely changed it up more, especially if the character was written by grrm.
I really really need to read berserk, so much stuff seems to be referencing it!
@@theemeraldgecko310 I just watched the anime so far and it’s really good imo ! I need to read it too 😅
@avgfunkygamer I’d held off watching the anime due to people saying to read it instead! Definitely going to check it out!
Not sure how true it is, but I’ve heard the manga is even better than the anime! That’s just what I’ve heard though!
Great theory!
Thank you so so much!!!
I’m posting this when I’m still at the beginning of this video, so maybe our theories are the same, but being an empyrean, I have this funny feeling that Miquella and Malenia are twins the same way that Marika and Radagon are spouses… blonde vs red hair, never been seen in the same room together, both corrupted by an outer god… She is the Blade of Miquella literally and he is just identified both as Miquella and St. Trina.
Watching a bit more, I agree that Mesmer is probably the cocoon guy, but being written out of history, he could easily be mistaken by Malenia as Miquella as her brain is literally being rotted and Mesmer, too, is empyrean.
More uses of the Law of Regression incantation.
My buddy has the same theory to a degree. But imo this is too obvious, and also to what end? One of the clearest things we DO know about Miquella is that his motives are mysterious and obscured. So is the answer to the great mystery of who/where/what is Miquella is just going to be that he was the main bad guy on the cover of the game? I’m sorry but I don’t think they’re going to blow their load like that so easily and early. And what would that make Miquella? Marika’s evil janitor who purges everything stripped of gold? That’s the exact opposite of what we’ve learned about Miquella so far.