The length of the video is never an issue, love watching you guys break down everything about a shoe. What is an issue is I woke up today $275 poorer lol
@Bypassrunner13 @ConverationalPace Agree totally. I am miles away (so to speak😂) from being an ultrarunner but I find these in-depth discussions of the technical aspects of both the shoes and this genre of running to be wildly informative and entertaining. In fact I'm listening to this now as I head out on my afternoon...walk😅
Still running on the original x’s, I have 4 pairs, this shoes just works for me. Shoe has taken me up past the 100 mile distance. It’s also a plus they are still available at a good price. Good to know that the x 3 is also a banger. Thanks to all the both of you do, big fan of the content here on CP and single track.
Thanks for watching! I'm also in the minority that enjoyed the original more than the TX2. Something about the original Tecton upper hit my foot just right. Loved the fit of that one!
I love the comparison review you did with AJW and can’t wait for the super show comparison review! We need one for every class of shoe. Simplifies life for those of us who don’t have easy access to demos 🙏🏼
Was waiting for this one. Too much money, but these shoes look so good. Thanks as always to the both of you. These reviews are as good as it gets. Super excited for the trail supershoes battle!!
I feel like we are where road super shoes were in 2016-2017 when Nike first released the 4%. Only difference now is that every brand has the tech to make a shoe like this. It'll just come down to who can figure out what the right recipe is, and it's so exciting!
i purchased the agravic ultras, they are a nice shoe but the toe box is narrow which is a big issue for myself, I have always been a nike guy but The Hoka TX3's seem up my alley
@@ConversationalPace Have you had the chance to run in the right size for you in the Ultra? I think it’s a different shoe when you do because the rocker aligns different with the foot and the shoe becomes more nimble and less “boaty”.
Great work on this review, boys. I have the Tecton X 2.5 and was curious to see how the TX3 that goes to market would differ, and it looks like the midsole "wings", pull-tabs, lug design/depth, and midsole width circumference are the key differences. All in all, Hoka really knocked this one out of the park, especially through the evolution of v1-2. Added note: other than this shoe, my only other experience with a built-in gaiter was the Salomon S/Lab Sense 8 SG, which I may now be a full convert for built-in gaiters for shoes. Also, worth commending Finn for ripping a bit of the Matryx upper...that's hard to do!
Finn is an athlete! Awesome you got a 2.5! Sounds like that one was an even more extreme version of what is now the TX3, with some potential hits to durability. I feel like this TX3 is not going to get as chewed up on the trails as some have done with the 2.5
i was up at 3:30am on 8/14 watching this review. I was heartbroken at 4am when trying to buy them. Took me 24 hours to mustard the strength to write about my pain.
I'm so sorry about the misinformation on that. I was also duped, but I'm at least really glad it was only a day mistake and not something like a whole month 😵
S&%t, I guess there goes $275. I shouldn't have been surprised. Also, to Finn and Brett's question about gaiters in shoes, a few comments: (1) the Zegama 2 has a tiny gaiter; and (2) next month (from what I have heard), Speedland will release the GL:SVT, which is Avery Collins' commissioned shoe. The shoe has extremely aggressive tread, far less stack then the GS:PDX, and is meant for super technical terrain. But the kicker? It has a gaiter and it reminds me A LOT of the Tecton x 3, but with BOAs. If you Google you can see photos of the GL:SVT. I would be curious to hear how the Tecton x 3 compares to the Speedland GS:PDX when it has the carbitex plate in. Are they a similar vibe? One last comment to add -- I love Finn being humble about the Skyline 55k. For the curious: yes, he won, and by 30 minutes.
Oh wow what a review! Sounds like Hoka almost made the holy grail of ultra racing shoes, at least for current technology. I’m super curious if drainage will be an issue during the rainy season here on the wet side of the Cascades. Guess I’ll have to pick up a pair and find out 😂
Alright!! It’s now just about time for a CP mid year recap/best of by category video! Make a list of those old faves that are still competing with the newest hype and who wins {long run | speed work | technical | recovery | race day } etc. Then we see if it holds up with the end of year championship 😄
Thanks guys. On the water drainage topic. Did you check what insoles they are using here? Hoka used a lot of open cell ortholite isoles that feel nice initially but wreck your feet when wet.
That's what I initially thought as well, but when I pulled the insole out, it was a very thin perforated insole. Cheaper than an Ortholite insole, but I also argue that Ortholite isn't very necessary in a shoe like this. But back to your theory, this cheaper insole was barely even wet when i took it out since it was so flattened and couldn't hold much moisture
Another great review, gents! I am with you, Brett, on the drainage concern - wish they'd kept some of those matryx toe gaps from X2 for better drainage, but hey.... otherwise this thing is a stone-cold comfortable killer. I've nicknamed mine Swim Walmsley. Keep on keepin' on! ;)
for most of my training, my feet don't get wet, so it's not a huge concern for me. This TX3 has taken the crown (currently) for my favorite trail shoe of 2024!
@@ConversationalPace OK, used the X3 for the first 100k of Leadville 100 and while it drained better than I expected, I did have some heel grinding and blistering. So I do think it's one of those shoes that needs 40-50 miles of plate use before your feet can use it properly but DAMN Hoka has produced some magic here. ZERO debris through the gaiter, very comfortable. For those with heels issues, pre-tape and you're GOLD.
@@ericperramond3463 Thanks for the feedback! This is going to be super valuable! Curious to see how they feel now after putting a continuous 100k on them. Agreed though, I think that gaiter is awesome!
That ankle collar cut was rough 😂 To say something about the segment: Prodigio Pro, Speedland GL:SVT the ankle collars are rising and I’m here for it! Not counting stuff like the S-LAB Genesis Spine, LaSpo Cyclon Cross and Blizzard, Scarpa Kalibra G ect.😁
Thanks for the excellent review. I used the affiliate link to purchase the shoes just because you guys do an amazing job. QQ: Would you use these shoes for Javelina 100? If not, other recommendations?
Thanks so much! Javelina is an interesting race because you can nearly wear anything you want. The first time I used the Saucony Endorphin Speed 3, and the second time I used the Nike Ultrafly. Both were great choices because they had responsive foam and a smooth roll. This TX3 would be a great choice for those reasons, even though the outsole is a little overkill. The Gaiter would be nice to keep sand from getting in though!
Just did my first run in Tecton X 3. It’s a sock glued to a slab of PEBA atop a tractor tire. Most beautiful shoe I own. Zero structure in upper and I rolled my ankle repeatedly. I felt it was sapping energy as well. But I may tape my ankles and run Kodiak in them anyway because of the tractor tread. Best thing (ie tread) ever for technical terrain. Speed Ultra is a better race shoe probably but the outsole just can’t compete with this.
@@ConversationalPaceAt this point I would say no, but I’m going to try to make it work. Simon Dugué reviewed it and had a similar experience with the upper as me, but says he just pulled the laces tighter to help and plans to run TDS in it. I’m going to keep experimenting to see if I can get a better result.
Great review. I was a sceptic of the upper as it seems to have siliarities with the Zinal 2, which I love to run in, and fast, but over 15km I find my foot starts to move around so descents induce black toenails over 25km so I’m currently using the agravic speed without problems. But I’m a fan of the gaitor, in fact the Zinal 2 gaitor could be longer for me, just like this. The agravic speed ultra is still unobtanium where I live, including from the adidas app, so maybe I just have to give Hoka my money…
I think what might be limiting the upper on the Zinal 2 is the material, as it is very flimsy. The Matryx of the TX3 paired with the gaiter created near perfect lockdown for me, so that might be the winning combo you're looking for!
Length of video is never an issue! You talk about bounce and energy return and learning to run in the show could you link that to pass/stride and how you found success. Was running below a certain speed a challenge, in the context of ultras I’m definitely not running as fast as you guys!
I feel like if you watched a mile 1 vs mile 100 running form video in these shoes, it wouldn't really look any different. It was more so learning the expectation of how much the shoe was going to bounce back, which changed the anticipation of how my foot would hit the ground. It's hard to explain, but that was the part that takes the most time with this kind of foam. In regards to running at a slower speed, in other trail super shoes, it had felt awkward, but these felt surprisingly awesome at slower speeds!
@@ConversationalPace that’s interesting to hear, perhaps a bit more friendly to an enthusiastic but at best average weekend runner. Love the videos you guys put out hope you keep seeing success!
It's definitely got the width to help float across the sand well. I haven't taken them in nearly that sandy of conditions, so I can't say for sure if the built in gaiter would do the trick. Definitely seems plausible that it would be a nice shoe for it though!
Yes would be great to get initial thoughts on this vs Speed Ultra! I’m running Grindstone 50K next month and thinking about both of these and Mafate Speed 4. Thanks guys!
Hmmm In terms of pure softness, the TX3 definitely wins over the Mafate. The Mafate is still soft, but the TX3 is on a whole other level. Whether that will be as durable as the Mafate though is still being tested out. It's a sweet shoe for sure!
Yes would be great to get initial thoughts on this vs Speed Ultra! I’m running Grindstone 50K next month and thinking about both of these and Mafate Speed 4. Thanks guys!
@@ConversationalPace Awesome. Would be helpful if possible to highlight which shoes work well with slower paces / walking! Either way, will be ordering these tomorrow with your link. I'm probably looking at 15-16 min/mile average for Grindstone 50K (which includes decent amount of hiking). And sorry for noob question, but do you guys have sense for how technical Grindstone is compared to Western States, UTMB? I've done some of the Grindstone course and know the George Washington National Forest, good amount of roots and rocks, but being newer to trail running don't know where this sits in technicality vs. other courses for when you guys are doing those comparisons.
I haven't been out on the Grindstone course, but from what I have heard talking to a few athletes I have coached for it is that it is more technical than most of the west coast trail races, but is on the mellow side compared to many other east coast races
He wore a Tecton X 2.5 in white from the start to mile 55 and from miles 80-100. from 55-80 though, he was wearing a completely new shoe that didn't look anything like a Tecton and had an upper that resembled a Rocket X 2 closer 🤔
It's so loose and dusty up in the first 50 miles of the States course, that I don't think it's crazy to wear something like this with a built in gaiter. Little warmer, but probably worth it to not have to deal with those annoying little pebbles getting kicked into your shoes
Does this shoe use any type of Ortholite insole? That may cause less water drainage. Ortholite insoles are sponges and stay wet! Hiking in the shoe do you think you have more foot and shoe connection because of the integrated gaiter allowing the shoe to not try and pull off the foot? Just some thoughts. Another great and fun review guys! Thanks
That's what I initially assumed, but when I pulled the insole out, it was a very thin insole that is perforated, which wasn't holding much water at all. I do think the gaiter allowed to get great heel lock down without having to crank the laces down super tight
Looks a lot like the Salomon s/lab sense 8 SG although that one has a thin midsole. So maybe it’s a copy of the Salomon prototype shoe Francois used at UTMB 😉 . And thx for a in-depth review, will definitely try it once it’s released.
Thanks for watching! I had always wondered if the gaiters that were built into some of the ultra shoes that Francois and Kilian had used were requested by them or were more of a camouflage to hide a prototype, since the gaiter only ever made it to the sense 8 SG.
@@ConversationalPaceI think there was also some material issues, at least the Sense 8 SG was not Matryx. Pulsar SG kind of has a gaiter, but really low.
Great review a bit short could’ve stretched it to an hour 😂 how’d you feel about the price and only using it for races if I paid that price I’d want to wear all the time!
Haha I totally hear ya on this one! I'd love to wear this shoe every day, but I worry that it wouldn't feel as special on race day if I did that. Similar to not wearing a vaporfly everyday for someone training for a marathon
So did you guys like it?...but seriously, great review, wish I had some room for more shoes this year....have to wait until 2025 budget kicks in. For now I'm loving the Zegama 2 and I feel similar about how it performs as a high stack cushy trail shoe....goldilocks zone for me.
Great review. Would you recommend this as a shoe that was not only for racing, but as another shoe in the quiver for weekly milage? For instance, doing shorter races in them every so often, but then also using them say for long runs or something where the bounce and plate might decrease fatigue (or work muscles in a different way). For reference, my other shoes are the Nnormal Kjerag, Speedgoat 5, and Mafate Speed 4. Is the TX3 a worthwhile addition if racing isn't the primary reason for buying it? I'm a faster runner, if that helps
You pretty much hit the nail on the head with how I would add this shoe to my rotation. Some shorter races, workouts, and important long runs are where I would incorporate this shoe from a training standpoint 👍
@@ConversationalPace Help! I got this shoe partially based on your review, but I feel like I must be missing something. To me, it doesn't feel that fast-I feel like I'm working against the softness of the foam to keep good form and turnover. I haven't taken it on anything technical but I'm struggling to imagine doing that based on how bouncy it feels. What am I missing? Does it change a lot after the first 50 miles? Was running around 7 minutes a mile pace
@@eternalmagnetictape Have you worn a shoe this soft and bouncy before? It definitely takes a few runs for the legs to adjust to how they should react to (and with) the foam of this shoe. I had the same problem when I bought the Nike Alphafly 1 when I was training for a marathon a few years ago. First few workouts I was running slower and feeling more tired, then something clicked on the third workout and my body figured out how to run with that particular shoe and it was instantly magic
@@ConversationalPace Yeah, it's way bouncier than any shoe I have run in (bounciest would be the Mafate Speed 4). OK -yeah maybe just needs adjustment time. You should invoice Hoka for replying to all of these comments!
@@ConversationalPace Yeah, maybe one day. I got the Genesis earlier this summer and it feels pretty good even for my slow runs or hikes, but I am also weirdly attrackted to the Wildhorse 8 so that might actually be next in line
I'd definitely consider it for the foam and the gaiter to keep debris out. Don't really need that much outsole at Javelina, but it's still smooth. I still believe the best Javelina shoe is the one you are most comfortable just straight up running in for a long period of time
Have you guys had experience running in the Saucony Edge? I couldn't find a review, but wondered how this compared to the Tecton X 3. The Edge is by far my favourite 'super' trail shoe and my go to racer, so would be interesting to hear any comparison.
I have run a bit in the edge, and had a few issues with upper lockdown and stability. I found the TX3 to fit my foot better and also be softer underfoot, and when paired with the wider stance of the shoe, helped with stability quite a bit
I don't think this midsole foam is going to be very good for backpacking/fastpacking. the way it feels underfoot, with how fast it rebounds energy is tuned much more specifically for the running movement. I think the Mafate or even Speedgoat mid would be a better choice from Hoka, and far more durable as well from a hiking standpoint
Loved the review, been anxiously awaiting the release of the shoe, and glad to finally have a quality in depth review. Also on a positive note, it's nice to see Hoka release a shoe that isn't 10 shades of orange. How do you guys feel about the color way/visual aesthetics of the shoe and are there any colors ways you would be excited to se Hoka release. Now to use the link and pick me up a pair. As always, thanks CP for the quality and informative review.
Thanks for watching! I've worn so many different colors of shoes at this point that I'm basically color blind to it. With that being said, for daily training, I tend to prefer some more mellow colors, which I consider this TX3 to be. For race day, let it be LOUD! haha.
I believe he said in an interview he started getting a hot spot early on in the high country so was changing his socks extra to be on the safe side and then figured go with fresh shoes with each sock change 👍
Curious about the heel. With the Norda 001 you seemed sketched out about the heel. Watching you push on the heel of this shoe it looks like there isn’t much going on there. Do you think this heel could be sketchy or are you not worried about it??
It wasn't so much the lack of heel counter in the Norda 001 that sketched me out. It was the way the fabric was layered and especially how it was (or wasn't) finished at the top of the achilles, and that ended up bugging me the most. The fabric on the inside of the TX3 is finished off in a much cleaner way that never gave me any issues. Both worked well for me from a stability standpoint, it was just the fabric of the 001 that wasn't comfortable for me
great review. super interesting tho this shoe is way cheaper up here in canada. its 300 cad which is only 218 american. its also the same price as the agravic speed ultra in canada with both being 300. i feel like i should buy it at this weird conversion rate price
Sounds like it’s a the Swiss Army knife of race shoes. What’s the current Swiss Army knife of every day trail running shoes? I feel like it was the speedgoats and they lost that crown.
Yeah super unfortunate the Speedgoat has been stripped of that title. For me this year, the swiss army knife shoe has probably been the Adidas Terrex Agravic Speed
This looks like an awesome shoe. Tempted to try this for a flat 100 miler in October! Another question could be. Now that we’re seeing super trail shoes discounted, is the TX3 £100s better? For example, the ultraflys are now on sale for £160 and the TX2s are £130 in the UK.
Ultrafly for $160 is a pretty solid deal and a shoe that many have had a lot of positive comments about! After running in both, the TX3 just works for me for a wider variety of trail, so I'd get more use out of it. What's the race?
@@ConversationalPace it’s the centurion autumn 100. (I know, our UK race names aren’t very imaginative). The course is undulating with only 1500ft of elevation.
is grip an issue at all? The Ultrafly outsole lugs are small and a little skimpy if you need them to really bite into the ground. For a flatter 100, I'm all about the shoe that delivers the most comfort to your feet since it is so much continuous pounding
Definitely hoping to do a full test of the SVT. I have a hunch it'll be geared more towards technical terrain and lower to the ground/a bit firmer, but that's purely speculation based off of looks.
I’m a Mafate Speed 4 all day guy and want to love the X2’s but found the stability comments here interesting because the only thing I can’t figure is why the X2 seems a little unstable on technical descents…
I think a big portion of that is because of the added stiffness the carbon plates bring. It's great on more mellow terrain, but doesn't allow the shoe to move with the trail when it's more technical
Nice! How do you guys feel about it for a 28ish hr finisher at something like Run Rabbit Run? Ran my last 100 (the Bear) in Speedgoat 4s two years ago and had no issues with those and feet felt mostly good throughout, but have really been struggling to find a good shoe for a month from now. I know its awfully close to race day to grab a pair and they ain't cheep, but am tempted by the review...
I would make sure to get in some long runs on similar terrain to learn how the shoe reacts to more technical terrain, but I also understand RRR isn't the most technical, so that would have me leaning towards the TX3 for sure. I'd only do it if you still have time for a few longer training runs in them
The built it gaiter is not new to Hoka.. Salomon made shoes with this many years back. Also TNF has some prototypes out there seen on Zach Miller's feet with the same.
The mont blanc carbon is super comfortable to run in and feels great, but it doesn't feel inherently faster like the TX3 does. Montblanc Carbon has a more squared off fit in the toe box
I really really really didn’t want to like this shoe….but dang it is sooo much fun to run in so far. Agree with all the observations as well. This is the first Hoka shoe in a very long time that I think will actually work for me. Of course it has to be the most expensive 😂.
The brooks have become my everyday trainer. Super stable, protective and can rack up a lot of mileage while feeling fresh. Agravic speed is like the Nike alphafly of trail. Marathon pace and above I can cruise at about 10-15 seconds per a kilometer quicker. Caveat is I find them super instable on technical terrain. As a chronic ankle roller ive already rolled my ankle twice wearing them so strapping tape is a must. The speed gains are still well worth the pain 😂. Still waiting on the Hokas from overseas. Currently going through customs and should arrive this week😁😁. @@ConversationalPace
One thing I don’t think that was mentioned is, how does this foam set up compared to the Zegama 2 or Speedland GS model? Realize there’s different stack heights in these models plus one of them has a removable plate, but just in general terms on the bounce, how do these compare? I typically have a “bounce threshold” that my knees prefer…too much and I can’t handle it. Btw- love Speedlands foam set up for context
This TX3 has a very noticeable more bounce than both the Zegama 2 or any of the Speedland models. If you've ever worn a road super shoe like the Vaporfly, it's actually pretty close to that level of bounce, but just in a more mellow shape
Maybe I missed the point where you guys talked about this, but how's the weight? That's the one thing that immediately stood out to me when putting on the Ultrafly way back, that shoe just feels heavy. Btw, I did a hot and humid workout yesterday in a road super shoe, lost like 7lbs of water weight, and I had sweat squeezing out of the PEBA afterward. So that may indeed be a foam thing...
there was a stats graphic towards the beginning. the TX3 is 9.7oz in my size 10, which was nearly a full oz lighter than the Ultrafly! TX3 was definitely much lighter than I was expecting for how much shoe and outsole you get
@@ConversationalPace I did miss it then 😅. That's lighter than my US9 Ultrafly, so indeed quite significant. I guess the weight wasn't something you noticed, considering it didn't really come up otherwise?
I guess since it was about the same as the Agravic Speed Ultra, it didn't get brought up a ton, but you're right, it shouldn't go unnoticed how light this shoe is for how much shoe you get 👍
I remember Salomon had a shoe like that that francois wore when he last won utmb and hardrock... the all red one... i thimk that shoe was never released...
Yeah I remember that! Kilian had something similar too one of his years he won either Sierre Zinal or Zegama. It's cool to see Hoka bring a polarizing design like this to market!
I think it would be a pretty good Javelina shoe. I also personally would probably go with something lighter less rugged since it's not too necessary on the course, like the Saucony Endorphin Speed, or the Brooks Hyperion Max 2
Encore une superbe video , merci a vous , pour repondre a votre question , cette chaussure n est pas une chaussure de la western states ou de l UTMB , cette chaussure represente Jim a 100% , c est comme ca que je le vois de France , bien que cette chaussure soit un must , et bien que j ai été decu des zegama2 sur les premiers km , je dois avouer que la Nike zegama2 est pour moi la meilleure chaussure dans laquelle il m est ete donné de courir , il a fallu les faires , il a fallu incisté , mais c est payant , pour cette TX 3 , un coté de moi a envie de les essayé , mais l autre coté restera raisonnable et fidel a la zegama 2 , et j ai une question pour vous deux , si vous deviez comparer ces deux chaussures , y a t il vraiment une enorme difference ? meme si la Z2 n a pas de plaque , je la trouve quand meme tres tres confortable , super stable , au fil des km elle se bonifie et devient tres tres efficace , et l amorti ne s affaisse pas comme beaucoup de ses concurrente .
Je dirais que la plus grande différence entre le Zegama 2 et le TX3 est que le TX3 est plus léger et beaucoup plus réactif. Beaucoup plus de rebond et de sensation dynamique. Le Zegama 2 est globalement un peu plus confortable avec un matériau supérieur plus doux et une conduite plus détendue (Google Translate)
Je pense que la valeur dépendra de la mesure dans laquelle vous apprécierez la mousse plus réactive. J'imagine que sa durabilité est similaire à celle du Zegama, donc la valeur ajoutée viendra dans l'expérience, qui est assez subjective. (Google Translate)
@@ConversationalPace merci , personnellement je m en tiendrais aux zegama 2 , fidèle a Nike depuis des années 😀 , même si cette tx3 fait envie , mais je n' ais pas le niveau pour en tirer le meilleur , je la laisserait a mon gendre qui a 26 ans ......la moitié de mon âge 😅
Quelle est la chaussure la plus stable entre la tecton x3 et la zegama 2? La tecton x3 est une chaussure exigeante musculairement pour coureur d'un petit niveau ? Est ce qu'elle peut être bénéfique pour un simple coureur lambda ? Bravo pour vos vidéos très intéressante
@conversationalpace would you wear this for a course like TOR or does it not have enough technical chops to handle that type of terrain (screen / boulder fields / nasty wet roots)?
I'm not sure this shoe is burly enough for a race like TOR. I haven't personally been out there, but I feel like there are shoes that would be better suited to that multi-day pace and technical terrain
s/lab Genesis is going to feel firmer, but more competent on technical terrain being lower to the ground and more flexible. These two shoes are getting pretty different at this point, which I love seeing. I like that they don't have much overlap, and one is going to be great in some scenarios, and vice versa
@@ConversationalPace but only if you like very narrow shoes.. if you like the Speedland, the trabuco max 2/3, brooks caldera 6/7 you won’t like either of the genesis unfortunately. I really would love the s/lab in 2e or normal width..
After going through a whole myriad of paces in testing for this shoe, I feel like it would be comfortable to use across all paces at utmb. Not limited to the fast kids only which was cool to find out!
One question on the TX3 that isn't specific to the super shoe comparison. Is there any reason that the TX3 also wouldn't work as a great training shoe (other than putting wear and tear on a $275 shoe)? Brett said previously he wouldn't do a lot of training in the Speed Ultra, it sounds like it's a different story here, but other than testing the shoe to get used to the bounce, how does it does it perform as an everyday trainer?
There hasn't been enough research on the trail side of the world, but for elite road and track athletes, they are actually starting to wear carbon plated shoes much less, as the injury rates are starting to go up in weird places. There are also some findings that over time, the body can adapt to the super shoe and you actually start to lose the positive gains from the foam and plate. So I've been trying to be conscious of how many days a week I'm wearing super foam and carbon plated shoes.
There's always the possibility that the trails negates some of the risk, but I'm going to stick with where most of the research is pointing at the moment 👍
for really steep rocky terrain, I would say the TX3 survives better than the other trail super shoes, but I feel like the Mafate Speed 4 still thrives in that kind of terrain. So if the majority of your running is steep and rocky, the mafate is still probably going to be the better choice
I’m looking for a 100 mile shoe that can handle some Northeast technical terrain. I have been running in the Speedland shoes. Does this have a bit more cushion? Will this last 500 miles?
This TX3 is softer, but the jury is still out whether it is going to be durable across 500 miles of northeast technical trail. The durability of the Speedland midsole is super tough to beat
Would the drainage "issue" change your opinion on the shoe if you were using it on a course that was in and out of water (fully submerged) every 15 minutes or so? And would a modification (small drilled holes) help the drainage issue at all, or do you think it's mostly a midsole open cell problem?
I don't think I would use this shoe if the crossings were that frequent. I'd have to test that out more. I'm not sure the small holes would help, as it really felt like the water was squeezing out of the foam. It would be tough to drill holes without drilling through the plate too, but definitely an interesting idea!
@@ConversationalPace That's what I was thinking as well, appreciate the response! For a little more context, my use case is very niche, ultra distance obstacle course racing with several obstacles being in water that will be waste high or higher. Thanks again!
Absolutely love this shoe but I’m having some problems with the midsole making a squeaky noise (almost as bad as an alphafly) it’s almost like the the midsole has soaked up my sweat or something like that. I really can’t see this shoe performing well in the wet winter in the uk which is a real shame. Maybe my pair is faulty but something is going on in that huge midsole.
I wonder if the insole is rubbing up against the strobel board underneath that's causing the squeak. I've seen that most commonly. Perhaps a different insole could help? Or if the plates came loose and are rubbing against the foam, then I'd put that more in the faulty category for sure
We haven't had the opportunity to run in that one yet, but just based off of other reviews and what some friends have said, it sounds like that FDH was a bit of a miss in regards to how it compares to other shoes in that category
At 24:19 You are 100% spot on!! If you always try high cushioned you learn how to ride them and you'll get full confidence. Main issue after testing over 25 pairs in the last 12 months is onw that is overlooked constantly. The high stack shoes have flat insoles, slippery insoles/ liners. if you replace them with a soft thick insole/ liner your foot stays in place without having to lock the shoe down all the way. If your foot doesnt slide, your confidence shoots up, control shoot up. I put a Asics soft thick liner in the Adios Pro 3, et voila no problem running trails. No sliding without a stong lace lockdown is the key for me.
I felt like it was a bit more stable, but both shoes took a bit of time to get used to running in. As Finn said, there's just a bit of a learning curve to controlling the amount of bounce these shoes have, so over time (in both shoes) they started to feel more stable as we got better at running in them
I have run in quite a few road super shoes, and one spot where I never take those shoes is on steep downhills. Steeper descents is where I have found that these more responsive shoes have the longest learning curve in regards to controlling the shoe and anticipating how it will feel underfoot
running my first 100 in two months....used the tecton x 2's in my past two 100k's, what do you all suggest....the tecton x 3's or mafate's? i also have speedgoat 5's. it's and east coast race in west virginia. has a little bit of everything on it.
If you'd wear the TX2, then the TX3 should definitely be in the conversation, as you're getting a vary very similar fit and rocker feel, but with the gaiter, much more responsive foam, and a better outsole. It's a few grams heavier, but you get so much more shoe 👍
This shoe is one of the most anticipated shoe I have been waiting for but the price is insane I don’t know if I can justify the price in my brain to buy it.
I hear ya on that one. It's a very expensive pill to swallow for sure. Hopefully you're able to find it in a shop to try on, as that could potentially help provide a little clarity
Ay, ay, ay, ay X3 feels like fire I'm so in love with you Thy run like angels They keep bad at bay, bad at bay X3 are the light Scaring darkness away, yeah Frankie said it right.. Question for you guys, how is it possible for company which produced so.many turds, let the speedgoat 5 and 6 be an example of prime turds, and then they come out with the Hoka Cielo X1 and the Tecton X 3. Absolute awesome shoes. What changed at Hoka?
@@ConversationalPace As Finn said : you're the hoka whisperer. I've had consistent rains.. Running on the road, X 3 are collecting dust. So annoying. For the first time ever, I am not looking for releases of new shoes (trail shoes..) I only want to run the X 3 (cut two inside lugs at the forefoot, put a silas insole in them and now the are perfect) and my Franken Adios Pro 3. Already contemplating buying a second pair when they release new colors (I like to give my foams a week rest so they still fill new after 200k)
@@ConversationalPace a few months in and my. opinion has changed on the Cielo x1, But the Tectron X 3 is still the best trail running shoe ever made. Cant roll my ankles even if I try. It isn't the fastest out of the box but especially after a few k of undulation you become one with the shoe. I'm 20 secs per K slower than super shoes on the road at same BPM. The longer the distance, the more undulation, the lower the delta to the super shoes on the road. I figured it out: It's not the shoe, it's me. The Tectron X3 enables me to be a better runner, I am simply biomechanical better. And I think that delta is significantly larger than the bounce from pebax.
To be “worth it” for an average person they would need to last the percentage difference in cost longer than an average priced trail shoe + price of gaiter if that’s your flavor. Plenty of options to simply keep you comfortable for 100k at $150. I will pay this much for Norda or Speedland cause they are virtually indestructible. I have never had a Hoka last structurally past 300 miles. I can’t imagine they are somehow producing these in a totally different manner such that that will change, which makes it a bad value.
The shoe is cool, love the review, but there is zero chance this actually makes the masses any faster. More comfortable, maybe, but there are loads of shoes that will keep you comfortable for a 100k, and for most people, your feet will hurt no matter what after 100 miles - so what are you buying with an extra 100 bucks. The only way we as consumers can push back against these price increases is by not getting gaslit that they will somehow make you better and not buy them. These do not cost a company $100 more to make. Not anywhere near this. I’m sure they are great, but please consider the hype.
Sounds a lot like how people viewed the original Nike Vaporfly when it first hit the market for what was an obscene price compared to other racing flats
Interesting take because I think a lot of the studies on the road super shoe actually show you get more of a benefit if you are mid pack rather than front of the pack. But there’s no published data for trails or 100k/100 mile races. Im super curious to see how we look back on this time and these shoes. I’m keen as to try.
Yeah I wish there was more data on the trails for things like this. Perhaps the brands have done their own private testing and know things more conclusively that we don't, but also based off of some of the other shoes that have come out, I'd guess they haven't 🤣
@@ConversationalPace I just think it’s apples and oranges. MAYBE on a runnable course like Leadville that is measurable. MAYBE even UTMB at the top level, but again, the thrust of the marketing isn’t at pros, cause they will run in whoever they are sponsored by (or fake it). But in the midpack races at that distance are not determined by footwear so long as you aren’t forcing yourself to run in something that doesn’t fit your foot. Too many other variables, most notably that unlike road, the course itself is totally different in every event. I just don’t buy that any shoe would make a greater difference for an average trail/ultra runner than simply making sure the shoe fits. The rest is hype to justify a cost UNLESS it is about increased durability (which also affects performance as you mentioned in the video). I don’t think the Vaporfly is a good analogy. If the Tecton X3 still runs well at 600 miles, I will stand corrected. The thing is “worth” what someone is willing to pay, and that’s us, since the pros aren’t paying for their shoes.
Also, with the 4% analogy, a midpack 24 hour runner at Western States could save 4% on their finish time by simply spending 3-4 minutes less per aid station 😉. That costs zero dollars and is another huge variable that makes the road analogy kinda moot.
It is the grade where running puts your heart rate in a higher zone than you want for a long endurance event and yet you can't walk fast enough to put your heart rate where you actually want it. It's the grade which puts you smack in the middle between wanting to walk and run.
Update: sizing (at least for me)is not true to size…had to size up by a half size. Also my new pair delaminated the outsole near the big toe after 5 miles into a run…pretty sweet since these are 300 FREAKING $. Thank #hoka
Dang hopefully they replace that for you. Sounds like a defective pair. I imagine that the chance of the peba actually ripping off with the rubber goes up, since it's more brittle than standard EVA
He did, which was right were the Matryx is laminated to the plastic overlay. Not ripped all the way through, but it was victim of a rogue tree branch when it was dark out. Little worrisome, but also understand that Finn runs with the strength of 100 men out there on the trails 🤣
Just waiting for altra, or anyone with a foot shaped toe box, to come out with a low drop shoe (4-5mm) with this type of midsole and outsole. I have the TX2.5 and if those and the Altra experience wild had a baby I would never buy another shoe.
I bet it would make the upper look a lot more sleek. The upper isn't totally black though, so it wouldn't be a total match. Would need a really dark charcoal to get that stealth look
Update: I have just been informed the TX3 will be available to purchase 8/15 instead of 8/14. I jumped the gun by a day and I apologize 🤣
Had me refreshing the Hoka site every 2 minutes! Phew.
I bought a pair today! (8/14)
Biggest question is how they compare to the Terrex Speed Ultra's. Been loving that shoe!
Nice work! Already got mine and am doing a good chunk of Leadville 100 on these come Saturday...
I have secured the goods. Got the black/blue combo which looks nice 😎
Already sold out on the HOKA website in Germany cannot believe I was too late lol
The length of the video is never an issue, love watching you guys break down everything about a shoe. What is an issue is I woke up today $275 poorer lol
haha well hopefully in exchange, you end up with a sweet pair of shoes!
@@ConversationalPace I’m sure they will improve the quality of my life lol
@Bypassrunner13 @ConverationalPace Agree totally. I am miles away (so to speak😂) from being an ultrarunner but I find these in-depth discussions of the technical aspects of both the shoes and this genre of running to be wildly informative and entertaining. In fact I'm listening to this now as I head out on my afternoon...walk😅
@@MLHunt love that you found the channel and that you find our in-depth conversations interesting!
Loved the show talk!
Thanks for watching!
Still running on the original x’s, I have 4 pairs, this shoes just works for me. Shoe has taken me up past the 100 mile distance. It’s also a plus they are still available at a good price. Good to know that the x 3 is also a banger.
Thanks to all the both of you do, big fan of the content here on CP and single track.
Thanks for watching! I'm also in the minority that enjoyed the original more than the TX2. Something about the original Tecton upper hit my foot just right. Loved the fit of that one!
I had the same achy body problem with the Asics shoes. You guys nailed it, too stiff and not comfy enough on the long run for me!
I wish I could say it was something that broke in for the asics, but they broke me before I could break the shoe in 😭😂
I love the comparison review you did with AJW and can’t wait for the super show comparison review! We need one for every class of shoe. Simplifies life for those of us who don’t have easy access to demos 🙏🏼
Definitely excited to record the comparison review! Thanks for watching!
Jumping in early through the watch to say, amazing b roll footage. It really just adds to the description perfectly.
Glad you found it helpful!
Was waiting for this one. Too much money, but these shoes look so good. Thanks as always to the both of you. These reviews are as good as it gets. Super excited for the trail supershoes battle!!
I feel like we are where road super shoes were in 2016-2017 when Nike first released the 4%. Only difference now is that every brand has the tech to make a shoe like this. It'll just come down to who can figure out what the right recipe is, and it's so exciting!
Amazing review, you guys are different class. Going to be near impossible to resist this shoe. Thank you! 🙏🏻
It was a fun one to test for sure! Thanks for watching!
Such a tease: what we came here for was 'do I buy an the agravic ultra or this'
🤣 🤣 we need an entire video to review all the competitors, but for me (Brett), if I had to pick just one, I'm picking the TX3
Also North Face vectiv pro
i purchased the agravic ultras, they are a nice shoe but the toe box is narrow which is a big issue for myself, I have always been a nike guy but The Hoka TX3's seem up my alley
@@ConversationalPace Have you had the chance to run in the right size for you in the Ultra? I think it’s a different shoe when you do because the rocker aligns different with the foot and the shoe becomes more nimble and less “boaty”.
haven't gotten a smaller size yet. My 10s felt pretty good. It was Finn who really needed to get an 11 or 11.5
I didn’t make it past the video title and I’m ready to invest 🤑
hahaha sold!!!
Great work on this review, boys. I have the Tecton X 2.5 and was curious to see how the TX3 that goes to market would differ, and it looks like the midsole "wings", pull-tabs, lug design/depth, and midsole width circumference are the key differences. All in all, Hoka really knocked this one out of the park, especially through the evolution of v1-2.
Added note: other than this shoe, my only other experience with a built-in gaiter was the Salomon S/Lab Sense 8 SG, which I may now be a full convert for built-in gaiters for shoes. Also, worth commending Finn for ripping a bit of the Matryx upper...that's hard to do!
Finn is an athlete! Awesome you got a 2.5! Sounds like that one was an even more extreme version of what is now the TX3, with some potential hits to durability. I feel like this TX3 is not going to get as chewed up on the trails as some have done with the 2.5
thx for your sh’nerdyness guys ❤️👏🏻 ….„and maybe even buy two…“😂 37:43
Always Finn with the Spicy takes 🤣 🤣
The UTMB colourway looks 👌 Blue & Black
Hopefully they make that color available to the public!
i was up at 3:30am on 8/14 watching this review. I was heartbroken at 4am when trying to buy them. Took me 24 hours to mustard the strength to write about my pain.
I'm so sorry about the misinformation on that. I was also duped, but I'm at least really glad it was only a day mistake and not something like a whole month 😵
Extra validation post- just ran the Sawatch 50k today in this shoe. Techy Mtn races? Oh yes they do perform! 9-13k elevation, 7k of vert
💥💥💥
S&%t, I guess there goes $275. I shouldn't have been surprised.
Also, to Finn and Brett's question about gaiters in shoes, a few comments: (1) the Zegama 2 has a tiny gaiter; and (2) next month (from what I have heard), Speedland will release the GL:SVT, which is Avery Collins' commissioned shoe. The shoe has extremely aggressive tread, far less stack then the GS:PDX, and is meant for super technical terrain. But the kicker? It has a gaiter and it reminds me A LOT of the Tecton x 3, but with BOAs. If you Google you can see photos of the GL:SVT.
I would be curious to hear how the Tecton x 3 compares to the Speedland GS:PDX when it has the carbitex plate in. Are they a similar vibe?
One last comment to add -- I love Finn being humble about the Skyline 55k. For the curious: yes, he won, and by 30 minutes.
Btw, check out Speedlands SL:SVT regarding your gaiter question.
If you end up running 50 hours in them, that's like 5 dollars an hour, which I can justify for this kind of entertainment value 🤣
I always wear no show socks in the summer and rarely wear gaiters, so I’m not a fan of the built in gaiter. I have tan lines to consider. 😂
hahaha this TX3 is not tan line friendly at all 🤣
Great review guys! Thank you
Thanks for watching!
Oh wow what a review! Sounds like Hoka almost made the holy grail of ultra racing shoes, at least for current technology. I’m super curious if drainage will be an issue during the rainy season here on the wet side of the Cascades. Guess I’ll have to pick up a pair and find out 😂
Let us know in a few months once the rains start to hit!
Alright!! It’s now just about time for a CP mid year recap/best of by category video! Make a list of those old faves that are still competing with the newest hype and who wins {long run | speed work | technical | recovery | race day } etc. Then we see if it holds up with the end of year championship 😄
Hah! Next video being upload is a trail super shoe comparison video, so comparing some of our favorites on the year
Thanks guys. On the water drainage topic. Did you check what insoles they are using here? Hoka used a lot of open cell ortholite isoles that feel nice initially but wreck your feet when wet.
That's what I initially thought as well, but when I pulled the insole out, it was a very thin perforated insole. Cheaper than an Ortholite insole, but I also argue that Ortholite isn't very necessary in a shoe like this. But back to your theory, this cheaper insole was barely even wet when i took it out since it was so flattened and couldn't hold much moisture
Another great review, gents! I am with you, Brett, on the drainage concern - wish they'd kept some of those matryx toe gaps from X2 for better drainage, but hey.... otherwise this thing is a stone-cold comfortable killer. I've nicknamed mine Swim Walmsley. Keep on keepin' on! ;)
for most of my training, my feet don't get wet, so it's not a huge concern for me. This TX3 has taken the crown (currently) for my favorite trail shoe of 2024!
@@ConversationalPace OK, used the X3 for the first 100k of Leadville 100 and while it drained better than I expected, I did have some heel grinding and blistering. So I do think it's one of those shoes that needs 40-50 miles of plate use before your feet can use it properly but DAMN Hoka has produced some magic here. ZERO debris through the gaiter, very comfortable. For those with heels issues, pre-tape and you're GOLD.
@@ericperramond3463 Thanks for the feedback! This is going to be super valuable! Curious to see how they feel now after putting a continuous 100k on them. Agreed though, I think that gaiter is awesome!
That ankle collar cut was rough 😂 To say something about the segment:
Prodigio Pro, Speedland GL:SVT the ankle collars are rising and I’m here for it!
Not counting stuff like the S-LAB Genesis Spine, LaSpo Cyclon Cross and Blizzard, Scarpa Kalibra G ect.😁
👏 👏 CP is here for the rise of the ankle collar too!
Thanks for the excellent review. I used the affiliate link to purchase the shoes just because you guys do an amazing job. QQ: Would you use these shoes for Javelina 100? If not, other recommendations?
Thanks so much! Javelina is an interesting race because you can nearly wear anything you want. The first time I used the Saucony Endorphin Speed 3, and the second time I used the Nike Ultrafly. Both were great choices because they had responsive foam and a smooth roll. This TX3 would be a great choice for those reasons, even though the outsole is a little overkill. The Gaiter would be nice to keep sand from getting in though!
Just did my first run in Tecton X 3. It’s a sock glued to a slab of PEBA atop a tractor tire. Most beautiful shoe I own. Zero structure in upper and I rolled my ankle repeatedly. I felt it was sapping energy as well. But I may tape my ankles and run Kodiak in them anyway because of the tractor tread. Best thing (ie tread) ever for technical terrain. Speed Ultra is a better race shoe probably but the outsole just can’t compete with this.
This was the most back and forth comment I've ever read 🤣 So you do like the shoe? 😂
@@ConversationalPaceAt this point I would say no, but I’m going to try to make it work. Simon Dugué reviewed it and had a similar experience with the upper as me, but says he just pulled the laces tighter to help and plans to run TDS in it. I’m going to keep experimenting to see if I can get a better result.
@@eric-running-to-chamonix Hopefully you're able to figure it out!
Great review. I was a sceptic of the upper as it seems to have siliarities with the Zinal 2, which I love to run in, and fast, but over 15km I find my foot starts to move around so descents induce black toenails over 25km so I’m currently using the agravic speed without problems. But I’m a fan of the gaitor, in fact the Zinal 2 gaitor could be longer for me, just like this. The agravic speed ultra is still unobtanium where I live, including from the adidas app, so maybe I just have to give Hoka my money…
I think what might be limiting the upper on the Zinal 2 is the material, as it is very flimsy. The Matryx of the TX3 paired with the gaiter created near perfect lockdown for me, so that might be the winning combo you're looking for!
Love the review! Would love the shoe to be like $50 cheaper
Agreed, that would have made it a 100% no brainer purchase, instead of like a 92% no brainer purchase 🤣
I’ve just picked up the Asics Metafuji trail. Quite firm but some serious pop and surprisingly stable with 44mm stack.
I'm looking for reviews once more people buy them. I don't think asics is going to give out free ones for reviews though.
Been trying hard to get our hands on these as I'm super intrigued by them, but they are definitely a little hard to come by in the review world
Whoa tell me more
It looks like a Metaspeed sky trail! Hoping to get these in for review
Length of video is never an issue! You talk about bounce and energy return and learning to run in the show could you link that to pass/stride and how you found success. Was running below a certain speed a challenge, in the context of ultras I’m definitely not running as fast as you guys!
I feel like if you watched a mile 1 vs mile 100 running form video in these shoes, it wouldn't really look any different. It was more so learning the expectation of how much the shoe was going to bounce back, which changed the anticipation of how my foot would hit the ground. It's hard to explain, but that was the part that takes the most time with this kind of foam. In regards to running at a slower speed, in other trail super shoes, it had felt awkward, but these felt surprisingly awesome at slower speeds!
@@ConversationalPace that’s interesting to hear, perhaps a bit more friendly to an enthusiastic but at best average weekend runner. Love the videos you guys put out hope you keep seeing success!
Do you think this shoe would be a good option for the Marathon des Sables?
It's definitely got the width to help float across the sand well. I haven't taken them in nearly that sandy of conditions, so I can't say for sure if the built in gaiter would do the trick. Definitely seems plausible that it would be a nice shoe for it though!
Omg this review is a beautiful thing ❤
Appreciate it! Hope you enjoyed it!
The evo with that heel collar would be the best shoe
Yes would be great to get initial thoughts on this vs Speed Ultra! I’m running Grindstone 50K next month and thinking about both of these and Mafate Speed 4. Thanks guys!
I'd be super curious to compare the midsole feel of the old Evo SG to this new TX3. Hopefully it's as good as I remembered 😂
@@2leggedprophet i ran Grindstone 100k last year in either Cascadias or Topo Pursuits (v1). Either of those shoes would work great
Also get there early, last year hoka had Stinsons and Speedgoat to try on
Are they as cushioned as the Mafate? Or less?
It looks flippen dope
Hmmm In terms of pure softness, the TX3 definitely wins over the Mafate. The Mafate is still soft, but the TX3 is on a whole other level. Whether that will be as durable as the Mafate though is still being tested out. It's a sweet shoe for sure!
Yes would be great to get initial thoughts on this vs Speed Ultra! I’m running Grindstone 50K next month and thinking about both of these and Mafate Speed 4. Thanks guys!
Going to record a trail super shoe comparison video soon thumb 👍
@@ConversationalPace Awesome. Would be helpful if possible to highlight which shoes work well with slower paces / walking! Either way, will be ordering these tomorrow with your link. I'm probably looking at 15-16 min/mile average for Grindstone 50K (which includes decent amount of hiking). And sorry for noob question, but do you guys have sense for how technical Grindstone is compared to Western States, UTMB? I've done some of the Grindstone course and know the George Washington National Forest, good amount of roots and rocks, but being newer to trail running don't know where this sits in technicality vs. other courses for when you guys are doing those comparisons.
I haven't been out on the Grindstone course, but from what I have heard talking to a few athletes I have coached for it is that it is more technical than most of the west coast trail races, but is on the mellow side compared to many other east coast races
Excited to see a gaiterless version, pretty sure Jim wore those at Western
He wore a Tecton X 2.5 in white from the start to mile 55 and from miles 80-100. from 55-80 though, he was wearing a completely new shoe that didn't look anything like a Tecton and had an upper that resembled a Rocket X 2 closer 🤔
@@ConversationalPace interesting I would have figured that he would have been using a gaiter-less version
It's so loose and dusty up in the first 50 miles of the States course, that I don't think it's crazy to wear something like this with a built in gaiter. Little warmer, but probably worth it to not have to deal with those annoying little pebbles getting kicked into your shoes
Does this shoe use any type of Ortholite insole? That may cause less water drainage. Ortholite insoles are sponges and stay wet! Hiking in the shoe do you think you have more foot and shoe connection because of the integrated gaiter allowing the shoe to not try and pull off the foot? Just some thoughts. Another great and fun review guys! Thanks
That's what I initially assumed, but when I pulled the insole out, it was a very thin insole that is perforated, which wasn't holding much water at all. I do think the gaiter allowed to get great heel lock down without having to crank the laces down super tight
Looks a lot like the Salomon s/lab sense 8 SG although that one has a thin midsole. So maybe it’s a copy of the Salomon prototype shoe Francois used at UTMB 😉 . And thx for a in-depth review, will definitely try it once it’s released.
Thanks for watching! I had always wondered if the gaiters that were built into some of the ultra shoes that Francois and Kilian had used were requested by them or were more of a camouflage to hide a prototype, since the gaiter only ever made it to the sense 8 SG.
@@ConversationalPaceI think there was also some material issues, at least the Sense 8 SG was not Matryx. Pulsar SG kind of has a gaiter, but really low.
Great review a bit short could’ve stretched it to an hour 😂 how’d you feel about the price and only using it for races if I paid that price I’d want to wear all the time!
Haha I totally hear ya on this one! I'd love to wear this shoe every day, but I worry that it wouldn't feel as special on race day if I did that. Similar to not wearing a vaporfly everyday for someone training for a marathon
So did you guys like it?...but seriously, great review, wish I had some room for more shoes this year....have to wait until 2025 budget kicks in. For now I'm loving the Zegama 2 and I feel similar about how it performs as a high stack cushy trail shoe....goldilocks zone for me.
🤣🤣 I will say though, that Zegama 2 is still the best bang for your buck shoe of 2024 for me. Definitely a goldilocks zone type shoe
Great review. Would you recommend this as a shoe that was not only for racing, but as another shoe in the quiver for weekly milage? For instance, doing shorter races in them every so often, but then also using them say for long runs or something where the bounce and plate might decrease fatigue (or work muscles in a different way). For reference, my other shoes are the Nnormal Kjerag, Speedgoat 5, and Mafate Speed 4. Is the TX3 a worthwhile addition if racing isn't the primary reason for buying it? I'm a faster runner, if that helps
You pretty much hit the nail on the head with how I would add this shoe to my rotation. Some shorter races, workouts, and important long runs are where I would incorporate this shoe from a training standpoint 👍
@@ConversationalPace Help! I got this shoe partially based on your review, but I feel like I must be missing something. To me, it doesn't feel that fast-I feel like I'm working against the softness of the foam to keep good form and turnover. I haven't taken it on anything technical but I'm struggling to imagine doing that based on how bouncy it feels. What am I missing? Does it change a lot after the first 50 miles? Was running around 7 minutes a mile pace
@@eternalmagnetictape Have you worn a shoe this soft and bouncy before? It definitely takes a few runs for the legs to adjust to how they should react to (and with) the foam of this shoe. I had the same problem when I bought the Nike Alphafly 1 when I was training for a marathon a few years ago. First few workouts I was running slower and feeling more tired, then something clicked on the third workout and my body figured out how to run with that particular shoe and it was instantly magic
@@ConversationalPace Yeah, it's way bouncier than any shoe I have run in (bounciest would be the Mafate Speed 4). OK -yeah maybe just needs adjustment time.
You should invoice Hoka for replying to all of these comments!
@@eternalmagnetictape Hah now there's a million dollar idea!
Great review. Definitely not a shoe for my slow legs but it looks cool, I love the gaiter. And personally I don't mind the reviews being longer.
Appreciate you! I was pleasantly surprised at how fun this shoe felt even at slower paces, so don't count yourself out on this shoe quite yet 😉
@@ConversationalPace Yeah, maybe one day. I got the Genesis earlier this summer and it feels pretty good even for my slow runs or hikes, but I am also weirdly attrackted to the Wildhorse 8 so that might actually be next in line
WH8 is a fantastic shoe to do it all
Great review, thanks! Would you race Javelina in the TX3?
I'd definitely consider it for the foam and the gaiter to keep debris out. Don't really need that much outsole at Javelina, but it's still smooth. I still believe the best Javelina shoe is the one you are most comfortable just straight up running in for a long period of time
@@ConversationalPace thanks. I did the JJ 100K in the TX2 last year and loved them. TX3 it is for the 100mi this year :)
Best of luck with your training!
Have you guys had experience running in the Saucony Edge? I couldn't find a review, but wondered how this compared to the Tecton X 3. The Edge is by far my favourite 'super' trail shoe and my go to racer, so would be interesting to hear any comparison.
I have run a bit in the edge, and had a few issues with upper lockdown and stability. I found the TX3 to fit my foot better and also be softer underfoot, and when paired with the wider stance of the shoe, helped with stability quite a bit
What did you guys think for technical hiking? Could this be a high altitude backpacking/fast packing shoe. Think CDT up high or Uinta Highline.
I don't think this midsole foam is going to be very good for backpacking/fastpacking. the way it feels underfoot, with how fast it rebounds energy is tuned much more specifically for the running movement. I think the Mafate or even Speedgoat mid would be a better choice from Hoka, and far more durable as well from a hiking standpoint
Loved the review, been anxiously awaiting the release of the shoe, and glad to finally have a quality in depth review. Also on a positive note, it's nice to see Hoka release a shoe that isn't 10 shades of orange. How do you guys feel about the color way/visual aesthetics of the shoe and are there any colors ways you would be excited to se Hoka release. Now to use the link and pick me up a pair. As always, thanks CP for the quality and informative review.
Thanks for watching! I've worn so many different colors of shoes at this point that I'm basically color blind to it. With that being said, for daily training, I tend to prefer some more mellow colors, which I consider this TX3 to be. For race day, let it be LOUD! haha.
Thanks guys. Any insight on why Jim changed his shoes a few times during Western? Definitely took more time than his typical quick aid stations.
I believe he said in an interview he started getting a hot spot early on in the high country so was changing his socks extra to be on the safe side and then figured go with fresh shoes with each sock change 👍
Curious about the heel. With the Norda 001 you seemed sketched out about the heel. Watching you push on the heel of this shoe it looks like there isn’t much going on there. Do you think this heel could be sketchy or are you not worried about it??
It wasn't so much the lack of heel counter in the Norda 001 that sketched me out. It was the way the fabric was layered and especially how it was (or wasn't) finished at the top of the achilles, and that ended up bugging me the most. The fabric on the inside of the TX3 is finished off in a much cleaner way that never gave me any issues. Both worked well for me from a stability standpoint, it was just the fabric of the 001 that wasn't comfortable for me
great review. super interesting tho this shoe is way cheaper up here in canada. its 300 cad which is only 218 american. its also the same price as the agravic speed ultra in canada with both being 300. i feel like i should buy it at this weird conversion rate price
Dang, at that rate, I should just drive up to Canada and buy a few pairs, and hit up some sweet runs in the mountains when I'm at it!
Sounds like it’s a the Swiss Army knife of race shoes. What’s the current Swiss Army knife of every day trail running shoes? I feel like it was the speedgoats and they lost that crown.
Yeah super unfortunate the Speedgoat has been stripped of that title. For me this year, the swiss army knife shoe has probably been the Adidas Terrex Agravic Speed
This looks like an awesome shoe. Tempted to try this for a flat 100 miler in October!
Another question could be. Now that we’re seeing super trail shoes discounted, is the TX3 £100s better? For example, the ultraflys are now on sale for £160 and the TX2s are £130 in the UK.
Ultrafly for $160 is a pretty solid deal and a shoe that many have had a lot of positive comments about! After running in both, the TX3 just works for me for a wider variety of trail, so I'd get more use out of it. What's the race?
@@ConversationalPace it’s the centurion autumn 100. (I know, our UK race names aren’t very imaginative). The course is undulating with only 1500ft of elevation.
is grip an issue at all? The Ultrafly outsole lugs are small and a little skimpy if you need them to really bite into the ground. For a flatter 100, I'm all about the shoe that delivers the most comfort to your feet since it is so much continuous pounding
Ugh. Idk if I should get these or wait for the GL:SVT. I'm thinking Speedland will be worth the wait but I kinda want to get both now...
Definitely hoping to do a full test of the SVT. I have a hunch it'll be geared more towards technical terrain and lower to the ground/a bit firmer, but that's purely speculation based off of looks.
Since you're taking suggestions for comparison videos, I'd like to request a road-to-trail best of 😁
Great suggestion! That one would definitely have a lot of potential options for sure
I’m a Mafate Speed 4 all day guy and want to love the X2’s but found the stability comments here interesting because the only thing I can’t figure is why the X2 seems a little unstable on technical descents…
I think a big portion of that is because of the added stiffness the carbon plates bring. It's great on more mellow terrain, but doesn't allow the shoe to move with the trail when it's more technical
Ordered a pair from backcountry for 20% off. Hopefully it works for me as a race option otherwise I'll stick with my LaSpo Prodigio
20% off is about as good of discount as I've seen so far! Hope they work out for you!
@@ConversationalPace We will see! I've heard they are surprisingly wide too.
Nice! How do you guys feel about it for a 28ish hr finisher at something like Run Rabbit Run? Ran my last 100 (the Bear) in Speedgoat 4s two years ago and had no issues with those and feet felt mostly good throughout, but have really been struggling to find a good shoe for a month from now. I know its awfully close to race day to grab a pair and they ain't cheep, but am tempted by the review...
I would make sure to get in some long runs on similar terrain to learn how the shoe reacts to more technical terrain, but I also understand RRR isn't the most technical, so that would have me leaning towards the TX3 for sure. I'd only do it if you still have time for a few longer training runs in them
Definitely over on the integrated gater adoption. This shoe sounds like a game changer.
It was such a pleasant surprise for me how well it worked and how invisible it felt!
btw the new Speedland GL:SVT now has a similar gaitor!
Curious to feel that material and see how it performs!
Any chance you guy are going to review ASIC metafuji trail? A less technical trail shoe with carbon plate and ff turbo and ff blast+ iirc.
Working on getting some review units now 👍
Does this beat out TNF Vectiv Pro 2 for overall best trail super shoe?
Will do a few more runs in both, but I (Brett) am definitely leaning that way. We're going to record a full trail super shoe comparison video soon 👍
The built it gaiter is not new to Hoka.. Salomon made shoes with this many years back. Also TNF has some prototypes out there seen on Zach Miller's feet with the same.
There was also an adidas trail shoe with one, but they were all too stiff and starchy. I never got to try any Salomon ones
Hi guys , a quick question: how would you compare it to the Altra Montblanc carbon ? I had the x1 , but I'd go for the Altra.
The mont blanc carbon is super comfortable to run in and feels great, but it doesn't feel inherently faster like the TX3 does. Montblanc Carbon has a more squared off fit in the toe box
I really really really didn’t want to like this shoe….but dang it is sooo much fun to run in so far. Agree with all the observations as well. This is the first Hoka shoe in a very long time that I think will actually work for me. Of course it has to be the most expensive 😂.
Don't you just love how that works out 🤣🤣
In the last 2 months i've bought the brooks caldera 7, adidas agravic speed ultra and now the Hoka tecton x3, all thanks to your reviews😅😅
How do they all compare?? You've got a fun shoe closet right now!
The brooks have become my everyday trainer. Super stable, protective and can rack up a lot of mileage while feeling fresh. Agravic speed is like the Nike alphafly of trail. Marathon pace and above I can cruise at about 10-15 seconds per a kilometer quicker. Caveat is I find them super instable on technical terrain. As a chronic ankle roller ive already rolled my ankle twice wearing them so strapping tape is a must. The speed gains are still well worth the pain 😂. Still waiting on the Hokas from overseas. Currently going through customs and should arrive this week😁😁. @@ConversationalPace
One thing I don’t think that was mentioned is, how does this foam set up compared to the Zegama 2 or Speedland GS model? Realize there’s different stack heights in these models plus one of them has a removable plate, but just in general terms on the bounce, how do these compare? I typically have a “bounce threshold” that my knees prefer…too much and I can’t handle it. Btw- love Speedlands foam set up for context
This TX3 has a very noticeable more bounce than both the Zegama 2 or any of the Speedland models. If you've ever worn a road super shoe like the Vaporfly, it's actually pretty close to that level of bounce, but just in a more mellow shape
@@ConversationalPaceordered! This will be interesting for sure. Tried them on in the store today. Much better than I was thinking they’d be.
Yeah the step in feel was such a pleasant surprise upon first try on
Are they going to be dropping any other color ways of this shoe?
I saw some of the Hoka athletes wearing a blue color. I'm not sure if that one will be immediately available, but we'll likely find out tomorrow!
Maybe I missed the point where you guys talked about this, but how's the weight? That's the one thing that immediately stood out to me when putting on the Ultrafly way back, that shoe just feels heavy.
Btw, I did a hot and humid workout yesterday in a road super shoe, lost like 7lbs of water weight, and I had sweat squeezing out of the PEBA afterward. So that may indeed be a foam thing...
there was a stats graphic towards the beginning. the TX3 is 9.7oz in my size 10, which was nearly a full oz lighter than the Ultrafly! TX3 was definitely much lighter than I was expecting for how much shoe and outsole you get
@@ConversationalPace I did miss it then 😅. That's lighter than my US9 Ultrafly, so indeed quite significant. I guess the weight wasn't something you noticed, considering it didn't really come up otherwise?
I guess since it was about the same as the Agravic Speed Ultra, it didn't get brought up a ton, but you're right, it shouldn't go unnoticed how light this shoe is for how much shoe you get 👍
@@ConversationalPace I guess it implicitly drives home the point if it _does_ go unnoticed, though 😄
The shoe is awesome!
How is the width compared to the 1s? Those were my favorite shoe. Couldn’t wear the 2s because they were too narrow.
I would say it is at least as roomy in the forefoot to the 1s. Thinner fabric in the TX3, so it feels more pliable. Definitely more room than the 2s
I remember Salomon had a shoe like that that francois wore when he last won utmb and hardrock... the all red one... i thimk that shoe was never released...
Yeah I remember that! Kilian had something similar too one of his years he won either Sierre Zinal or Zegama. It's cool to see Hoka bring a polarizing design like this to market!
Would this be a good Javelina shoe? Or would you go with a road super shoe?
I think it would be a pretty good Javelina shoe. I also personally would probably go with something lighter less rugged since it's not too necessary on the course, like the Saucony Endorphin Speed, or the Brooks Hyperion Max 2
@@ConversationalPace haha your latest video answered that for me! I picked up the endorphin 4 today for the race. Compared to the 3 it feels faster.
Encore une superbe video , merci a vous , pour repondre a votre question , cette chaussure n est pas une chaussure de la western states ou de l UTMB , cette chaussure represente Jim a 100% , c est comme ca que je le vois de France , bien que cette chaussure soit un must , et bien que j ai été decu des zegama2 sur les premiers km , je dois avouer que la Nike zegama2 est pour moi la meilleure chaussure dans laquelle il m est ete donné de courir , il a fallu les faires , il a fallu incisté , mais c est payant , pour cette TX 3 , un coté de moi a envie de les essayé , mais l autre coté restera raisonnable et fidel a la zegama 2 , et j ai une question pour vous deux , si vous deviez comparer ces deux chaussures , y a t il vraiment une enorme difference ? meme si la Z2 n a pas de plaque , je la trouve quand meme tres tres confortable , super stable , au fil des km elle se bonifie et devient tres tres efficace , et l amorti ne s affaisse pas comme beaucoup de ses concurrente .
Je dirais que la plus grande différence entre le Zegama 2 et le TX3 est que le TX3 est plus léger et beaucoup plus réactif. Beaucoup plus de rebond et de sensation dynamique. Le Zegama 2 est globalement un peu plus confortable avec un matériau supérieur plus doux et une conduite plus détendue (Google Translate)
@@ConversationalPace est ce que ça vaut les 90 euros supplémentaires ?
Je pense que la valeur dépendra de la mesure dans laquelle vous apprécierez la mousse plus réactive. J'imagine que sa durabilité est similaire à celle du Zegama, donc la valeur ajoutée viendra dans l'expérience, qui est assez subjective. (Google Translate)
@@ConversationalPace merci , personnellement je m en tiendrais aux zegama 2 , fidèle a Nike depuis des années 😀 , même si cette tx3 fait envie , mais je n' ais pas le niveau pour en tirer le meilleur , je la laisserait a mon gendre qui a 26 ans ......la moitié de mon âge 😅
Quelle est la chaussure la plus stable entre la tecton x3 et la zegama 2? La tecton x3 est une chaussure exigeante musculairement pour coureur d'un petit niveau ? Est ce qu'elle peut être bénéfique pour un simple coureur lambda ? Bravo pour vos vidéos très intéressante
@conversationalpace would you wear this for a course like TOR or does it not have enough technical chops to handle that type of terrain (screen / boulder fields / nasty wet roots)?
I'm not sure this shoe is burly enough for a race like TOR. I haven't personally been out there, but I feel like there are shoes that would be better suited to that multi-day pace and technical terrain
This or the Salomon S/Lab Genesis?
Salomon G is narrow
@@berry5954 I don't have this issue. It's actually the only shoe whose nose my thumb doesn't bump into and cause me purple toenails.
s/lab Genesis is going to feel firmer, but more competent on technical terrain being lower to the ground and more flexible. These two shoes are getting pretty different at this point, which I love seeing. I like that they don't have much overlap, and one is going to be great in some scenarios, and vice versa
@@ConversationalPace Thanks for the reply! 🙏
@@ConversationalPace but only if you like very narrow shoes.. if you like the Speedland, the trabuco max 2/3, brooks caldera 6/7 you won’t like either of the genesis unfortunately.
I really would love the s/lab in 2e or normal width..
Would you recommend these to any ultra runner for utmb for exemple or only to those above a certain ITRA / UTMB index?
After going through a whole myriad of paces in testing for this shoe, I feel like it would be comfortable to use across all paces at utmb. Not limited to the fast kids only which was cool to find out!
In Canada, they're going to be sold for... CA$300, same price as terrex speed ultras, $40 cheaper than Vaporflys
danggg vaporfly is $40 more?? If they're the same price as the Speed Ultra, I'd pick these (just my 2 cents!)
@@ConversationalPace For clarity, you'd pick the tecton x3 over the speed ultra, right? And yes, both $300 in Canada.
Yes I would pick the TX3 👍
One question on the TX3 that isn't specific to the super shoe comparison. Is there any reason that the TX3 also wouldn't work as a great training shoe (other than putting wear and tear on a $275 shoe)? Brett said previously he wouldn't do a lot of training in the Speed Ultra, it sounds like it's a different story here, but other than testing the shoe to get used to the bounce, how does it does it perform as an everyday trainer?
There hasn't been enough research on the trail side of the world, but for elite road and track athletes, they are actually starting to wear carbon plated shoes much less, as the injury rates are starting to go up in weird places. There are also some findings that over time, the body can adapt to the super shoe and you actually start to lose the positive gains from the foam and plate. So I've been trying to be conscious of how many days a week I'm wearing super foam and carbon plated shoes.
@@ConversationalPace Ok super interesting, thanks. Sounds like worth keeping most training days on regular trainers then.
There's always the possibility that the trails negates some of the risk, but I'm going to stick with where most of the research is pointing at the moment 👍
How do they handle steep rocky technical terrain? It would be nice to upgrade from the Mafate Speed 4 but only if this is as stable
for really steep rocky terrain, I would say the TX3 survives better than the other trail super shoes, but I feel like the Mafate Speed 4 still thrives in that kind of terrain. So if the majority of your running is steep and rocky, the mafate is still probably going to be the better choice
@@ConversationalPace Thank you so much. I’m doing Tor des Geants next month and still evaluating different options.
Best of luck at Tor!!!
I’m looking for a 100 mile shoe that can handle some Northeast technical terrain. I have been running in the Speedland shoes. Does this have a bit more cushion? Will this last 500 miles?
This TX3 is softer, but the jury is still out whether it is going to be durable across 500 miles of northeast technical trail. The durability of the Speedland midsole is super tough to beat
Would the drainage "issue" change your opinion on the shoe if you were using it on a course that was in and out of water (fully submerged) every 15 minutes or so? And would a modification (small drilled holes) help the drainage issue at all, or do you think it's mostly a midsole open cell problem?
I don't think I would use this shoe if the crossings were that frequent. I'd have to test that out more. I'm not sure the small holes would help, as it really felt like the water was squeezing out of the foam. It would be tough to drill holes without drilling through the plate too, but definitely an interesting idea!
@@ConversationalPace That's what I was thinking as well, appreciate the response! For a little more context, my use case is very niche, ultra distance obstacle course racing with several obstacles being in water that will be waste high or higher. Thanks again!
Ahh I gotcha. Yeah that might be too much water for what this shoe can handle 😢
Absolutely love this shoe but I’m having some problems with the midsole making a squeaky noise (almost as bad as an alphafly) it’s almost like the the midsole has soaked up my sweat or something like that. I really can’t see this shoe performing well in the wet winter in the uk which is a real shame. Maybe my pair is faulty but something is going on in that huge midsole.
I wonder if the insole is rubbing up against the strobel board underneath that's causing the squeak. I've seen that most commonly. Perhaps a different insole could help? Or if the plates came loose and are rubbing against the foam, then I'd put that more in the faulty category for sure
sold.
Hope they work out for you!
These are so tempting, but in Norway they’re $350, which is a hard sell for me when I can get the Speed Ultra for $200
Oh man, yeah that's pretty ludicrous for pricing. Speed Ultra for $200 is definitely a better deal
What about the Salomon Slab Ultra FDH?
We haven't had the opportunity to run in that one yet, but just based off of other reviews and what some friends have said, it sounds like that FDH was a bit of a miss in regards to how it compares to other shoes in that category
At 24:19 You are 100% spot on!!
If you always try high cushioned you learn how to ride them and you'll get full confidence.
Main issue after testing over 25 pairs in the last 12 months is onw that is overlooked constantly.
The high stack shoes have flat insoles, slippery insoles/ liners.
if you replace them with a soft thick insole/ liner your foot stays in place without having to lock the shoe down all the way.
If your foot doesnt slide, your confidence shoots up, control shoot up.
I put a Asics soft thick liner in the Adios Pro 3, et voila no problem running trails.
No sliding without a stong lace lockdown is the key for me.
Do you think it’s more stable than the Agravic Speed Ultras?
I felt like it was a bit more stable, but both shoes took a bit of time to get used to running in. As Finn said, there's just a bit of a learning curve to controlling the amount of bounce these shoes have, so over time (in both shoes) they started to feel more stable as we got better at running in them
@@ConversationalPacedo you guys run in road super shoes at all? I wonder if the learning curve is a little less if you run in the road ones a bit.
I have run in quite a few road super shoes, and one spot where I never take those shoes is on steep downhills. Steeper descents is where I have found that these more responsive shoes have the longest learning curve in regards to controlling the shoe and anticipating how it will feel underfoot
running my first 100 in two months....used the tecton x 2's in my past two 100k's, what do you all suggest....the tecton x 3's or mafate's? i also have speedgoat 5's. it's and east coast race in west virginia. has a little bit of everything on it.
Hmm, if the TX3 didn't exist, would you consider using the TX2 for your 100?
100%.
If you'd wear the TX2, then the TX3 should definitely be in the conversation, as you're getting a vary very similar fit and rocker feel, but with the gaiter, much more responsive foam, and a better outsole. It's a few grams heavier, but you get so much more shoe 👍
why have I watched twice already
Good thing you only have to wait one more day for the shoes to come out 🤣
This shoe is one of the most anticipated shoe I have been waiting for but the price is insane I don’t know if I can justify the price in my brain to buy it.
I hear ya on that one. It's a very expensive pill to swallow for sure. Hopefully you're able to find it in a shop to try on, as that could potentially help provide a little clarity
Man I hope they are made in 15s… only super shoe choice right now are Nikes…
I wish I could tell you if they were! We'll find out tomorrow when it releases 👍
Ay, ay, ay, ay
X3 feels like fire
I'm so in love with you
Thy run like angels
They keep bad at bay, bad at bay
X3 are the light
Scaring darkness away, yeah
Frankie said it right..
Question for you guys, how is it possible for company which produced so.many turds, let the speedgoat 5 and 6 be an example of prime turds, and then they come out with the Hoka Cielo X1 and the Tecton X 3. Absolute awesome shoes. What changed at Hoka?
Likely just different teams. i bet Cielo and Tecton are more innovation department
@@ConversationalPace As Finn said : you're the hoka whisperer.
I've had consistent rains..
Running on the road, X 3 are collecting dust. So annoying. For the first time ever, I am not looking for releases of new shoes (trail shoes..) I only want to run the X 3 (cut two inside lugs at the forefoot, put a silas insole in them and now the are perfect) and my Franken Adios Pro 3.
Already contemplating buying a second pair when they release new colors (I like to give my foams a week rest so they still fill new after 200k)
@@ConversationalPace a few months in and my. opinion has changed on the Cielo x1, But the Tectron X 3 is still the best trail running shoe ever made.
Cant roll my ankles even if I try. It isn't the fastest out of the box but especially after a few k of undulation you become one with the shoe.
I'm 20 secs per K slower than super shoes on the road at same BPM.
The longer the distance, the more undulation, the lower the delta to the super shoes on the road.
I figured it out: It's not the shoe, it's me. The Tectron X3 enables me to be a better runner, I am simply biomechanical better.
And I think that delta is significantly larger than the bounce from pebax.
Clicked because of thumbnail.
All that effort on Canva paid off!!!
To be “worth it” for an average person they would need to last the percentage difference in cost longer than an average priced trail shoe + price of gaiter if that’s your flavor. Plenty of options to simply keep you comfortable for 100k at $150. I will pay this much for Norda or Speedland cause they are virtually indestructible. I have never had a Hoka last structurally past 300 miles. I can’t imagine they are somehow producing these in a totally different manner such that that will change, which makes it a bad value.
What if instead of it lasting longer, it got you to the finish line faster? That's the main value prop for road super shoes
The shoe is cool, love the review, but there is zero chance this actually makes the masses any faster. More comfortable, maybe, but there are loads of shoes that will keep you comfortable for a 100k, and for most people, your feet will hurt no matter what after 100 miles - so what are you buying with an extra 100 bucks. The only way we as consumers can push back against these price increases is by not getting gaslit that they will somehow make you better and not buy them. These do not cost a company $100 more to make. Not anywhere near this. I’m sure they are great, but please consider the hype.
Sounds a lot like how people viewed the original Nike Vaporfly when it first hit the market for what was an obscene price compared to other racing flats
Interesting take because I think a lot of the studies on the road super shoe actually show you get more of a benefit if you are mid pack rather than front of the pack.
But there’s no published data for trails or 100k/100 mile races.
Im super curious to see how we look back on this time and these shoes.
I’m keen as to try.
Yeah I wish there was more data on the trails for things like this. Perhaps the brands have done their own private testing and know things more conclusively that we don't, but also based off of some of the other shoes that have come out, I'd guess they haven't 🤣
@@ConversationalPace I just think it’s apples and oranges. MAYBE on a runnable course like Leadville that is measurable. MAYBE even UTMB at the top level, but again, the thrust of the marketing isn’t at pros, cause they will run in whoever they are sponsored by (or fake it). But in the midpack races at that distance are not determined by footwear so long as you aren’t forcing yourself to run in something that doesn’t fit your foot. Too many other variables, most notably that unlike road, the course itself is totally different in every event. I just don’t buy that any shoe would make a greater difference for an average trail/ultra runner than simply making sure the shoe fits. The rest is hype to justify a cost UNLESS it is about increased durability (which also affects performance as you mentioned in the video). I don’t think the Vaporfly is a good analogy. If the Tecton X3 still runs well at 600 miles, I will stand corrected. The thing is “worth” what someone is willing to pay, and that’s us, since the pros aren’t paying for their shoes.
Also, with the 4% analogy, a midpack 24 hour runner at Western States could save 4% on their finish time by simply spending 3-4 minutes less per aid station 😉. That costs zero dollars and is another huge variable that makes the road analogy kinda moot.
What is Douche grade???
It is the grade where running puts your heart rate in a higher zone than you want for a long endurance event and yet you can't walk fast enough to put your heart rate where you actually want it. It's the grade which puts you smack in the middle between wanting to walk and run.
Perfect explanation!
@@johnborton4522 Good info thanks )
Update: sizing (at least for me)is not true to size…had to size up by a half size. Also my new pair delaminated the outsole near the big toe after 5 miles into a run…pretty sweet since these are 300 FREAKING $. Thank #hoka
Dang hopefully they replace that for you. Sounds like a defective pair. I imagine that the chance of the peba actually ripping off with the rubber goes up, since it's more brittle than standard EVA
Still listed as “coming soon” on RW
RW and Hoka have done 9am PST for many of their product drops. Here's to hoping they go live in 30min!
Dang, so I was misinformed and the shoe goes live tomorrow 8/15 instead of 8/14 😢
@@ConversationalPace Ah! All good... :)
Those are actually the 2.75
That's too many fractional updates for me 😂
Why do Hoka always seem to choose really bad colourways ?
I mean, it's pretty subjective what is a good or bad colorway. I thought these were quite a bit more subdued than the last few pairs I had
@@ConversationalPace Fairs, one other observation, did Finn rip through the side of that shoe 22:45 - Ive not watched the whole vid btw
He did, which was right were the Matryx is laminated to the plastic overlay. Not ripped all the way through, but it was victim of a rogue tree branch when it was dark out. Little worrisome, but also understand that Finn runs with the strength of 100 men out there on the trails 🤣
@@ConversationalPace 😂👍
Just waiting for altra, or anyone with a foot shaped toe box, to come out with a low drop shoe (4-5mm) with this type of midsole and outsole. I have the TX2.5 and if those and the Altra experience wild had a baby I would never buy another shoe.
I think if Altra made a mont blanc carbon variant with a 4mm drop, that shoe would crush!
@@ConversationalPace now that is what I’m talking about.
These red laces look out of place. Wondering how it would look like with black laces 🤔
I bet it would make the upper look a lot more sleek. The upper isn't totally black though, so it wouldn't be a total match. Would need a really dark charcoal to get that stealth look
@@ConversationalPace Yeah, agree. There was a limited UTMB colourway that was floating around. Looked much nicer.
Yeah that blue looks sweet!