Honestly, I just got sad for the state of human relations today by watching this. This guy promotes wanting to have the conversation because so few people nowadays do it, then proceeds to not say anything.
Hi Chase, Maybe I missed something but I don't understand how you have come to the conclusion that barefoot shoes are also bad. Steven brilliantly dismantled any argument blaming barefoot shoes as a cause to the issues you have expressed. The cause is clearly poor form and many years of not properly using the muscles in your feet. The shoes simply reveal the issues that are already present. If someone who drove an automatic car for many years switched to a stick shift and then had an accident, would you blame the car or would you blame the drivers lack of experience? You wouldn't say that stick shifts cause accidents. In the same way the shoe is not causing the problems and therefore it's not the shoe that's bad. The foot health is bad. If there was something else in this conversation that I'm missing here please let me know
I wish all CEOs would know their sh*it like Steven. Yes, he talks a lot, constantly bordering on being annoying. But his talks aren‘t empty. There are few people on this planet being as knowledgable and passionate about barefoot running is this guy. He‘s a walking compendium always having an answer that‘s more than just personal opinion. Thanks for doing this talk and posting it.
Steven is highly analytical. He cares 100% about the detail of the details. The shoe players care about money. Steven wants truth based on all the science and experience he can find. Thanks for mentioning he cares. I started with 5 fingers in 2008 after years of beaches and hiking with no foot covering. I am 68.😊
Steve fights back against your point that the industry’s answer seems to be “just spend more time in barefoot shoes and eventually you’ll be ok and adapt” by saying he and Vivo have never said that. Then on multiple occasions he says things like “take it slow, run 20 seconds and see how sore you are. If you’re sore run less time. As you progress and lose soreness run longer. Take it slow and don’t over do it” aka just spend more time in barefoot shoes and eventually you’ll adapt.
Vivo are far superior ❤ Xero designs sucks , the CEO is very knowledgeable about bare foot lifestyle but as he said , his head is in his bum , and so does his company.
@@Teramonor I love the Xero shoes. I'd try the Vivo if they brought the price down to reasonable levels. Still, the best barefoot shoe is the Vibram Five Finger but I can't wear them at work.
@@cristi724Exactly! The Xero guy won't let him finish a sentence! I just purchased some Xero shoes and an taking a Gait Happens course on foot strengthening, and they certainly stress the transition phase. Yay, he just made him stop interrupting!
Through this video I learn to appreciate Xero better as a company. I love how his CEO is willing to speak to anyone openly about his products. I think everybody here would love to see that same openness from other companies.
Videos like this are exactly why I support Xero shoes. It is clear to me the leaders of this company, and its employees, are passionate about changing how we walk and run to better our health. Sure, I had some quality issues with a pair of my Xero shoes, but they were kind enough to help me and eventually sent me a new pair.
Vivo are far superior ❤ Xero designs sucks , the CEO is very knowledgeable about bare foot lifestyle but as he said , his head is in his bum , and so does his company.
Vivo are far superior ❤ Xero designs sucks , the CEO is very knowledgeable about bare foot lifestyle but as he said , his head is in his bum , and so does his company.
@@Teramonorit's bizarre you keep posting the same verbatim comment over and over in reponse to comments. I really like all the Vivo barefoot shoes I have owned. My only gripe is the cost to be honest. I have a few Xero shoes and they are also great. But to be honest I don't like the way they look as much but the price is better which means I can afford them more than Vivo. Your comment seems like a weird fanboy comment and not objective at all. Especially since you parrot the same comment over and over.
I had knee replacement 4 years ago. I had some serious issues develop with my foot afterwards and had real troubles with every shoe and boot I wore afterwards. I lost my ability to hike more than a mile without real pain and circulation problems. I made the switch to barefoot shoes and the troubles I had began to quickly subside and since I am able backpack and hike 15 plus miles with no problems. Anecdotal? Maybe, but I'm here to say barefoot shoes restored my ability to backpack miles.
@watch-Dominion-2018 Xero, interestingly enough. I first tried the Prio but it was the Oswego that won me over. Those have the perfect fit for me with a wider toe box area similar to how Keen make theirs. They have discontinued the Oswego, unfortunately.
I'm doing PT to rehab a proximal hamstring tendinopathy. PT has insisted barefoot shoes when running. Within 1 month of running in then I know have medial knee pain, calf and achilles pain that has made me have to quite running completely it's so severe. Barefoot running may be for me someday but clearly it didn't solve all my problems. I started running at one mike and then gradually worked up to 5 miles over the month wearing new balance minimus which I've worn walking (not running) for over 5 years so while running in minimal support is new for me - walking in them for up to 7 miles a day is not. I'm super bummed now bc in addition to rehabbing my tendon now I'm sore frankly all over.
@karenk9404 sorry your recovery isn't going well. I went through 9 weeks of PT and pushed really hard. I got straight back to hiking again after surgery and pushed hard with it as well. My goal was to be able to backpack long distances as soon as possible. I tried every shoe from trail runners to boots and found them to be crippling and too hard to hike in. I came across the barefoot shoes after some reading and gave them a shot. Somehow, they made all the difference. I have been able to step up to zero drop trail runners at this point but still wear my barefoot on a regular basis.
@@dominoediggs4790i couldn’t agree with you more! This xero guy knows his stuff, can’t deny that, but man, painful to listen to!! Talks so much and so fast. Super annoying. His knowledge seems incredible, his delivery is brutal.
It's not very refreshing to hear a monologue... I agree with the calmly on the host's part, it's hard to keep so calm when you are constantly being interrupted, your points are quickly dismissed and the subjects you bring up skillfully changed
This is a fascinating conversation, between the CEO of my favorite sandals, and the guy who helped me strengthen my lower body for he trail running that I love do to in those sandals. Thank you both! Also, I'd like to learn more from Steve about the weird hip-swinging, effortless hill climbing.
Roughly 2yrs ago I entered the barefoot world. By using Chase's suggestions (ie movement/exercises/balance/gradual changes, humble explanations), my transition to literally walking barefoot and wearing barefoot shoes was smooth and enjoyable. Awesome video... thanks again Chase 😊🌅
This is how actual learning happens. Now we need all governmental bodies and learning institutions to adopt this style of discourse over contentious issues. Well done, man. Cheers to you both!
I just got into barefoot shoes. 69 years old and loving that I can fix my feet! I just donated three bags of “regular”;shoes that I refuse to wear ever again! So, I like this guy Steven…and I am now looking at his brand…
So cool to see you guys discuss this issue! I’ve been a “barefoot” footwear user for many years in a very active lifestyle, and my experiences run parallel to your own. Adopting minimalist footwear is a project that requires a long term game plan, wearing these types of footwear without paying close attention to your body mechanics and health throughout the whole process is a mistake I see a lot of people make. There is just simply such a dramatic difference in the way I walk with barefoot shoes, that changing back to regular shoes requires almost a whole different way of walking.
@@BrianaLynn7 baby steps! This guy @ChaseMountains has the best information I’ve seen in many years. From my own experience: First get yourself a pair of barefoot shoes you wanna try out (personally I recommend Vivobarefoot or Luna Sandals) and just wear them around the house for a couple of hours on the weekend without doing anything too strenuous (don’t go running). Just walking around your house (hardwood especially) you will begin to notice you have to bring your foot down to hit the ground at a different point than you are used too. This change is the transition from heel foot striking and “slapping” the ground with our feet like we normally do, to landing near the mid foot and rolling through the outside (anterior) portion of the footpad into the footpad. If you walk on hard cement with barefoot shoes you will very quickly notice the pain that comes with slapping the ground, and for that reason I highly recommend wearing barefoot shoes for low-energy activities and for short periods of time until the muscles in your feet and calves have developed enough for you to start more athletic adventures. I wore them at work for 2 months before I felt ready to wear them around town for a whole day of sightseeing. During that time I worked a retail floor job and was on my feet the whole day, the first few weeks my feet were sore when I got home but that eventually went away. Since it’s summer, I very highly recommend Luna Sandals for hiking and every day wear. They are a very barefoot shoe, and designed with modern materials after a running shoes style that have been used in South America for many generations. Could write more, just let me know if you have more questions!
@@aidandodge466Does all this information apply if you've spent enough years walking barefoot (without shoes) that regular shoes always hurt (I've never owned a pair of 'barefoot' shoes)?
@@Icemario87 good question! If you’ve already been walking barefoot (outside too?) for many years you are already well ahead in your foot-health journey. There should be no need to transition back to anything like a Hoka or Altra (lots of cushion), but if you are looking for a bit more “underfoot protection” for hiking/running outdoors than I would say you are perfectly positioned to go straight to a barefoot shoe with 10mm or less of sole thickness (this includes outsole + insole). Luna Sandals has several models in this thickness and I highly recommend any of them. My favorite models come with the Performance Straps which can tuen the sandal from a casual piece into a performance piece of footwear in a couple of seconds. I’ve hiked outdoors with a 10-14mm sole Luna sandal (daypack weight = 15LBS) for many hundreds of days and felt like a true forest elf. A 10mm outdoor barefoot sandal/shoe is the ultimate “endgame” for someone pursuing optimal foot health I feel. Just remember to find a good skin moisturizer as the more time actually barefoot or wearing sandals will dry out the bottom of your feet and they can crack painfully after about 6 months. Don’t forget to pamper yourself every once in awhile!
@@aidandodge466 Well I'm a city boy and a city slicker so when I say "a lot of time barefoot" i probably mean something like not wearing shoes indoors or while driving and maybe even kicking them off under the table during long meetings. So like, more than 12 hours a day outside of a footbinding.
As a person who has run in barefoot footwear or barefoot since 2009, I have been successful (except when I wore a brand that rhymes with Merrell on a treadmill) despite not knowing that I should do so gradually. Please do not follow my lead on that. Steven Sashen is a smart, knowledgeable speaker on the topic making this video informative and enjoyable. Thank you, Chase, for allowing yourself to be vulnerable and producing the video.
Man, I'm a brand new barefoot guy (just been walking in my new Xeros) and this video was huge for me. Thanks for putting it together, y'all we're both great communicors and respectful
How to Lie Using Statistics is an excellent book that I highly recommend everyone read! Don’t be duped by stats. Also, thank you to BOTH of you for making the video and doing the adult thing and actually having a conversation (what a concept!) about your disagreements. This was so informative and I learned a lot. As a newish hiker looking for the right shoes for me, I really appreciate the knowledge that was brought to the table on this one. THANK YOU 🙏
Thankyou for this! It’s crazy seeing a ceo actually take time to not only speak with their consumers but state in a factual and non-provocative way their argument.
Oh my I was thinking the same thing. Then I thought..there's no way this dude has a wife! You have to communicate to have a relationship and this dude doesn't seem to know how to shut it and listen
@@dominoediggs4790 Yes, Steve is very passionate about this and can really border on irritating. He does have a tendency to talk over and interrupt. I will say I had a chance once to speak to him personally and he was much more relaxed, he was curious about me and let me talk about myself and my experience and there was almost a shyness about him. I think he and his wife get along just fine.
@@umbertosmith7014 I guess his shoes are crap for you. I've gotten my self out of foot and hip pain transitioning first to sandles, then to hiking shoes, then to everyday shoes and now even Xero slippers. I've never felt better.
I wear flat wide shoes and I'm good. I wear regular sneakers, my back hurts and my feet can't move. Awful! It's not brain surgery. It makes perfect sense! I'm a size 6.5, women's, regular ( I don't have a wide foot). Very active. The flat, wide toe box shoes changed my life.
Same here. My feet, knees, and hips were wrecked. Barefoot shoes changed everything, I can even walk around barefoot without pain. And my feet look ripped now lol 😂
Love when you SPOKE UP to him and said youve spoken a lot now let me finish! Good job! I enjoyed hearing both of you. Contemplating buying the xero prios but the reviews say they tear apart fast... 😮
Super insightful conversation and was a joy to watch-love Steven’s conversation speed and energy! I know most people find this annoying, but it’s refreshing to hear someone who doesn’t sound like he’s mentally stuck at parking lot speeds!
He’s right through. The main critique was basically click baity and attributing general misunderstanding with false advertising. It’s not up to the corporations to teach people that to be strong you have to train and not simply wear minimal shoes. Barefoot shoes are simply meant to get out of the way. Being barefoot would be ideal but it’s not possible in many modern situations. The shoes aren’t here to make you stronger they are here to not smash your toes and kill your feedback in situations where you need to wear a shoe.
@@richardemerson8075 It played out like "play the previous video, pause it and I dump my thoughts and will interrupt you after 2 seconds of starting talking". I am not saying he is wrong or right, but that's not how you drive a conversation.
I love that this man wanted to join in conversation. If you know your subject, experts can disagree but one should not be afraid to engage. It's how we advance.
Just wanted to say I appreciated this as someone just trying to get into barefoot shoes. I also appreciated you standing up for yourself when he kept cutting you short, great conversation either way.
From this conversation, I have learned several things: 1. That the transition to the type of Barefoot footwear can really be a task not as simple as it may seem. 2. That most of everything that is said and talked about this type of footwear is not supported by scientific studies, so you have to be very cautious about everything you see and read about the subject. 3. That the experience that is worth for one in the transition to Barefoot does not have to be valid for others. 4. That I am not alone in the problems that I am having in the transition to Barefoot and that surely many other people are having problems similar to mine. 5. That the brain has to be given time so that it also assimilates the change that you are printing in your body, that is, it is not only a physical issue, but also a neurological issue. 6. That the CEO of Xero is a person with great knowledge of this subject and that he is passionate about the subject unlike what probably happens with the CEOs of other brands especially of non-Barefoot brands, where the push that moves them is probably a more economical than therapeutic issue. 7. That Xero’s CEO seems to be a really very close person. I wonder what it will be like to work with him in his company on a day-to-day basis. De esta conversación, he aprendido varias cosas: 1. Que la transición a el tipo de calzado Barefoot realmente puede ser una tarea no tan simple como puede parecer. 2. Que la mayoría de todo lo que se dice y se habla de este tipo de calzado no está respaldado por estudios científicos con lo cual hay que ser muy precavido con todo lo que uno de ve y lee sobre el tema. 3. Que la experiencia que vale para uno en la transición a Barefoot no tiene porque valer para otros. 4. Que no estoy solo en los problemas que estoy teniendo yo en la transición a Barefoot y que seguramente otra mucha gente está teniendo problemas similares a los míos. 5. Que al cerebro hay que darle tiempo para que él también vaya asimilando el cambio que estás imprimiendo en tu cuerpo, o sea que no es solo una cuestión física, sino también neurológica. 6. Que el CEO de Xero es una persona con grandes conocimientos de esta temática y que le apasiona el tema al contrario que lo que probablemente suceda con los CEO de otras marcas sobre todo de marcas no Barefoot, donde probablemente el empuje que les mueva sea una cuestión más económica que terapéutica. 7. Que el Ceo de Xero parece ser una persona realmente muy cercana. Me pregunto cómo será trabajar con él en su empresa en el día a día.
Small point of contention. Did mankind evolve to run around on industrial surfaces? Or perhaps have our feet been trying to for the last several hundred years. All that impact can't be that good for the somewhat vulnerable structure of our feet. Any thoughts, rants, death threats from the interweb?
As a person with genetic flat feet I appreciated this information personally ❤ loved the business, legal, and neurological insight. TRULY helpful in navigating a very frustrating “social” debate that feels important to my health and life capabilities. Thank you both
Thank you so much for this video. I am brand new to barefoot/minimalist shoes and I learned so much. Xero has a convert in me. I appreciate that this CEO took the time to share this information with us.
In hopes that this reaches the Xero shoes team, I chose Vivo over Xero because I wanted my trail runners to have the potential to be an everyday shoe as well. Right now, I just can't get behind the design/colors of Xero shoes. Hope this feedback helps!
Respect to both Steven and Chase for doing this video! Hope to see more of this in the future. What’s your experience on the xeroshoes with your recent hike, Chase?
As a climber and xc skier (two sports with narrow, specialized footwear), the discussion about how wearing healthy footwear the rest of the time being what really matters was really encouraging. I tried barefoot running when it was popular in the early 2010s, but got injured. I didn’t transition well and it turns out that I wasn’t really wearing the right shoes. The Merrell barefoots definitely weren’t wide enough in my toe box. Thanks for this realization too. My current struggle is transitioning slowly enough, since my mainstream footwear is really uncomfortable now and hurts my hips.
Oddly, I never thought of XC ski boots as uncomfortable, especially compared to a downhill ski boot. I will admit that there are strange torques applied to the foot in most types of skiing. I am pretty conservative in my running shoe choices, but I tend more towards less cushion.
*I had the same experience with pointing toes and pulling at the ground. I discovered if I land more flat-footed and use my quads to push myself forward that my tibialis stopped hurting and my ability to jog longer increased dramatically.* Later I learned that some Japanese guy already discovered this technique.
I switched to Whitin barefoot shoes 4 years ago for everyday use and their trail runner for hikes. No painful transition and it has helped my foot and back pain immensely. I’ve been itching to try the Xero Alpines for this winter and moneys tight but after this conversation I’m sold on trying out Steven’s shoes due to this great conversation.
I refuse to pay the prices Xero and the other “elite” barefoot shoes are charging, I’ve been completely happy with the Whitins I’ve gotten. I LOVE their canvas shoes for casual. So comfortable and great “recovery shoes” after wearing heavy work boots all week. They have lasted really well, too. $35 for almost 3 years of wear is awesome!
It was great to hear from Steven and inside the top level of the industry, especially the challenges to all the strawman arguments that are used. Finally, some truth, vs click bait. The statement that that "Big Shoe" won't produce barefoot shoes because it would mean admitting they were wrong, really hits hard. Of course that, and the marketing sabotage aimed at the companies making barefoot shoes, makes total sense. Shoes are not a religion, they're a tool.....that's been turned into a religion. I started racing XC in '75 just a few years into the "Run like 'Pre (Steve Prefontaine)" movement that was sweeping the nation, via Nike, Runners World Magazine, and Bill Bowerman's invented shoes, which had been picked up by Nike and sold as the "Waffle Trainer." I raced through 2 years of college, and continued on doing club racing in the Half, and did 1 Marathon. In '97 I permanently injured my left knee while training for a race, and was unable to run after that. In July 2012 I purchased my first pair of Vibram FiveFingers (Bikila model), at the age of 49. Ran 7.5mi on the trails of the local 1,200' peak, that day. No pain, incredible experience, and I was back to running again!! I ran 27mi that week, on a combination of trails and road/sidewalks. NOT how to transition into barefoot running...but I'm competitive with myself, and just get after it. I'm 59 and still running in them. My daughter joined me in 2012, in 8th grade, and we still run together. She ran and raced in the FiveFingers and other barefoot shoes in XC, varsity, all 4 years in high school, and was the only member of the teams who was never injured. She also raced varsity track all 4 years, and raced all distances from the 100m to 3200m, including the 4x100m relay as the anchor. Very fast girl. I used the FF's to spool my training and be able to do annual rim-2-rim runs in the Grand Canyon, and have done 10 in 8yrs, as XC runs (no poles, no walking the ups). I've also run 4 rim-2-rivers, racing down the S. Kaibab in attempts to get to Black Bridge in an hour (fastest time for me was repeatedly, 1:15min). I do other "big" runs in Sequoia Nat'l Park, and Kings Canyon Nat'l Park, which are 4hrs drive away. Was just there running last weekend, in the July snowpack! ua-cam.com/video/DGeg0p2rRU0/v-deo.html I'm currently wrapping up the recovery of having Open Wedge, High Tibial Osteotomy surgeries to straighten my life-long bowed legs. Surgeries were in late Jan '23 and late Mar '23. I ran for the first time at 90 days after the 1st surgery, which is unheard of. It's now July '23, and I'm already back to normal, long distance, trail running, and am probably a year ahead of the predicted healing schedule. My Ortho doesn't understand it, and has never seen anyone heal so fast. Yet here I am, turning 60 in less than a month, still running in FiveFingers, and currently training for another R2R run (I run them. I don't walk the ups or use poles) in the Grand Canyon on my birthday. It'll be my 11th, since 2015, plus 4 Rim2Rivers since 2020. All in FiveFingers.
That’s awesome! I’m healing from a tibial plateau fracture. Walking around in minimal shoes and doing mini trampoline work to prepare for running with my show dogs again. I’m only 4 months since injury and started small pre-running exercises at PT this week. My therapist is amazed at my progress!
@@Doktracy Excellent job turning that injury around. I've seen X-rays of those, and WOW!! I'm a firm believer in early weight bearing, and stressing the bone (appropriated to circumstances) for stronger bone structure healing. I also ate in a way to really promote bone growth. I closed out last year with the R2R as a marathon distance, on my 60th, mid-Aug. '23. I pushed the training harder, and 3 weeks later, raced a trail half with 2,800-something feet of vert, and placed 3rd overall. I kept the training ramped up, and returned to the Grand Canyon on Oct. 7th, to run another R2R, as a marathon distance, and as a speed run. I wasn't done racing, so the first weekend in Nov., I raced another trail half, in the same area as the previous one. 2,500-something feet of vert. and placed 1st overall. First week of Dec. '23, I had the plates removed from the HTO sights, and was back trail running a half, on Jan. 1st. I returned to downhill/alpine skiing to celebrate 1yr post-op on the first surgery, and skied 8 days in 8 weeks, to reach the 1yr post-op anniversary on my 2nd leg.
This was extremely helpful and educational. I greatly appreciate both Chase and Steven for their focus on discovering the truth about biomechanics in general and for their willingness to civilly discuss and debate the finer points of this sub-topic. Thank you!
Interesting chat. Glad you shared this. It's not easy to get called out on. I've been using barefoot shoes for almost 2 years now and collected way too many. I wear them daily and stand hours a day on hard surfaces. It took me 4-6 months to relearn how to walk when transitioning and I'm still learning something new. I still treat them as a way to train my walking gait. I still wear trail runners on most backpacking trips but hope the 'training' with barefoot shoes keeps my gait the same to prevent injury. These days, daily ankle, hip, and shoulder mobility exercises has been great. Interesting he brought up Feldenkrais. I watch some Taro Iwamoto UA-cam videos for pain treatment.
Chase, you’re a champ for putting up with all the interruptions! Great conversation though. Learned a lot.
Рік тому+1
MAN, you're such a humble dude and I really admire your way of arguing for your point at the same time as you are eager to learn by listening. That's why you know so much, and I bet you don't have a lot of enemies. Cred to you for being a sport and such a good guy!
I wore barefoot shoes for a year and developed significant pain in both feet. Stuck it out for some time thinking my feet just needed to adapt before I had to give it up. For me zero drop, anatomical toe box, and a midsole work best and I’ve found topo athletic checks all these boxes.
I don't think you can transition and NOT do foot and ankle strengthening work. I have flat feet and transitioned to zero drop shoes ( I have tolos, 2 xero, and vivo pairs) currently and before that I bought a cheap $30 noname pair off Amazon to try it out. I bought exercise programs to do with the transition. My feet got bigger and wider at the toes but also narrower at midsole. Ive had no problems at all with foot pain or ankle pain. Only issue I run into is knee discomfort when wearing my workboots for work.
@@SutekhDaSteemroller that’s great for you. As far as I’m aware those aren’t the issues I was having. More power to those who vivo and related footwear works for them. I’m not one of them and my comment was to let others know if this isn’t working for them no need to force the issue.
This is pretty amazing, this was great to watch! I’m new to barefoot shoes and I have so much respect that the CEO Xero shoes came on here and broke this stuff down. Also props to the channel creator for talking with him and trying to hold his weight in a conversation with a very passionate person.
this was honestly so great to hear. Really good info for him to talk about how to acclimate and reawaken your nervous system to start realizing HOW to run barefoot again. This is actually what I've struggle with recently, feeling like Im going into old foot posture issues even though my foot now is much stronger than before i started (9 months ago)
I read Born to Run when it first came out, and it got me into running out of a mostly sedentary lifestyle. I started with a forefoot strike (on the couch-to-5k plan), and shortly after finishing a couple 5k's, I switched from running shoes to fivefingers - they became the only shoe I've used for runs and workouts. I even completed a handful of spartan sprints in them. The only "regret" that I've had about them is they make the footlock on a rope climb very painful. 🤷
Thank you, gentlemen. I loved every minute. I would really like for barefoot/minimalist discussions to include the necessity of toe socks. While many people run without socks, most do not. I believe many enthusiasts are cramming their toes into an elastic sock, negating the possibility of toe spread. My journey away from clunkers has been a blast! Three years ago, I was experiencing ever-increasing pain and injury after runs. Initially, I “upgraded”my gym shoes to Asics Kayano but the frequency and severity of pain and injury escalated. In search of relief, I then purchased Mizuno Wave Sky, then Hoka One One Clifton, but each model left me with a new level of pain and injury. I ran in each pair of shoes until they were ready for replacement, so each pair was given a fair shake. Next, I tried increasing my time between runs; no improvement. Then, I decreased my distance and intensity; no improvement. While running in my Hokas one day and contemplating my impending On Cloud Stratus purchase, I began to read Born to Run. After reading McDougall’s book, I decided to pivot toward barefoot. However, I was already in great pain from two torn menisci, and arthritic ankles, knees, hips, and spine. I first began with zero drop Altra Rivirea. Within days, my heel braking was eliminated and injury-related pain began to subside. After a few hundred miles, I reduced stack by switching Altra Escalantés. As my running distance, frequency, and intensity increased, pain levels reduced and injuries eventually became nonexistent. After graduating to Altra Racers a few months ago, I had exhausted my options for reducing stack within the Altra brand. Recently, I’ve purchased Xero Zellen road shoes and Luna Oso sandals. I’ve been walking in them for weeks now. After my half marathon this weekend, I’ll retire my Escalanté Racers and begin running exclusively in Zellens. I’ve been gradually going through the same process with trail running and will soon be retiring my Altra Lone Peaks in favor of Xero Mesa Trails. Who knows what the future holds for this 53 year old, but I’ll certainly not be wearing clunkers ever again. Thanks again, gentlemen. This was an outstanding interview.
@@emmanarotzky6565, many running socks are, yes. Balega is not too bad, but many others are very compressive. The switch to a wide toe box shoe allows for natural toe splay. Nearly every traditional sock will discourage splay to some degree. Additionally, toe socks greatly reduce the occurrence of corns and blisters between toes.
Up until recently, I was a caregiver for a company that provided services for elderly and disabled people, as well as others temporarily incapacitated because of surgery. I was shocked and concerned by the heavy, stiff, constricting shoes prescribed for my clients who had a history of falling. I have no medical training, just hands on experience working with all kinds of people with mobility issues. One client, who I showered and helped with his exercises, etc. had developed what I called a frozen ankle. It had almost no movement. He went to PT but almost nothing was done about his ankle. Like a lot of elderly people who fall, he had fallen more than once and it was usually while pivoting to one side. I think that immobile ankle was my client's primary problem. I used to massage his feet and ankles after his shower and before our exercise session. It was almost impossible for him to do the toe lifts or heel lifts in our routine with those clunky stiff shoes, nevermind foot circles. And sadly, sometime after I stopped being his caregiver, he fell in the bathroom, hit his head and died. I am now on the other end of things. I had a heart attack 5 years ago, followed by a quadruple bypass that resulted in nerve damage, because I was improperly positioned on the operating table. I have severe SI pain and pain in my hip joints that makes it almost impossible for me to walk more than 5 minutes. And as I have become so sedentary, especially during the pandemic lockdowns, my weight has climbed and my overall health is awful. So I am determined to change. I am interested in these barefoot shoes as maybe a means of teaching my body to walk better. I walk barefoot in the house all the time. I feel a lot less pain walking indoors. I wouldn't walk barefoot outside where I live, though, because there ARE needles on the closest paved trail, sorry to say, as well as dog poop and broken glass. I also have Type 2 diabetes and am scared of any foot wounds. I would love to learn more about how to prepare to wear these barefoot shoes, and how to learn from and adjust to my body's feedback. Can you suggest where to begin? I will take a look at your other videos, in the meantime. And I just wanted to share that I have observed that shoes that are supposed to help the elderly really seem barbaric and counterproductive to me. BTW - I ran cross country in high school, played basketball and ran for pleasure in college, did yoga for maybe 20 years, rode my bike to work and back which was 20 miles round trip. Then I worked as a reporter for about 30 years and didn't have a life Now I am 69 and in terrible shape and it's incredibly depressing. I want the next 10 or more years of my life to be incredible and I need a fit body in order to complete a very active bucket list.
Hey, just wanted to let you know I appreciated what you shared. I'm sorry about that gentleman you were helping falling. Sigh. Regarding you, just use them for a little bit each day, for a week or so. Then increase the time a little bit more each week or two. It's a workout for your feet, so you gotta go about it like working out basically. Don't do too much too fast or you'll be too sore. I wasn't obese, but I always had problems with my feet. I will never go back to regular shoes. Wide toe box and zero drop is where it's at. Love you and wish you all the very best!
Just want to add my appreciation of what you wrote here 😞 And, you keep going, slowly slowly and especially don't forget to REST = the time when your brain reconfigures, a very important part of learning new skills including new movement patterns. I like the saying "The pause is as important as the note" And when you find yourself in a state of deep relaxation - stay there! For as long as you can. It's in that deep relaxation that the nervous system reconfigures.
Neat. I’ve drawn my own conclusions after lifting heavy and running in vibrams vs slightly more built up footwear - don’t go too hard too fast! Sometimes a thicker protective sole is the way to go. Tools in the toolbox
He says that his company don't make those kinds of blanket claims, but on his site, "If your feet don’t feel as good at the end of the day as they did in the beginning, you haven’t tried the Z-Trail EV." ... Do i misunderstand or isn't this the kind of blanket over zealous marketing that Chase was trying to push back against?
Yeah...I came out of this video with a worse opinion of barefoot shoes, just by the attitude of that CEO. When you come to a "discussion" video not willing to listen, and completely dismissing the other person's points...that's a Red flag.
Super informative video, really made me curious to try Xeros now. I've been wearing barefoot shoes for 11ish years now, really made a change in my posture and gait, gained a lot of foot strength and stability, and my toes are visibly more spread now in their relaxed state, so much so that I've just had to donate a couple pairs of old (also barefoot!) shoes that are no longer wide enough. I was sooo happy to hear about the neurological differences in adapting to different movement, as I am also aware that neurodivergent people, especially autistic folks, can often have poor proprioception and/or not register pain normally - thus making the transition more difficult. I can also add my N=1 memory of first sprinting in a Vibram to catch a bus... The first 4 footfalls hurt, so by the time the 5th landed I just switched my stride and started landing on the balls of my feet. It felt wonderful and liberating, and I've hated running all my life, yes, even back as a kid! So yeah, definitely we're all different and hike our own hikes and walk our own walks but for me, personally, and many of my friends and family, barefoot shoes have been an invaluable tool to regain foot health and strength.
Thank you for having an intellectual conversation about both sides of the barefoot shoe argument. I have huge respect for you and Steven after listening to your respectful discussion. This is SO MUCH BETTER than a s&$#-show shouting match. I’ve been running for forty years and have come to my own terms with barefoot shows, using them for specific purposes (including walking and strength training). BTW, we will be having the same argument/conclusion over the problems with “super shoes” coming soon. Thanks again Chase, this was excellent!
Thank you for this talk. And I appreciate you standing your ground on not being entirely talked over. I want to be able to believe in this system as I am considering progressing into minimalist or, I guess, anatomical footwear, but I can’t trust opinions forced onto people from the barefoot side of the argument just as I can’t from the opposite
I feel the Barefoot Shoe Industry should be more forthright in promoting "proper form" over the promotion of their shoes. the marketing of these shoes could better inform the general public that there is a requirement to ease in to such shoes AND that other strength training and form change may very well be required. I've been in barefoot shoes since the first 5Fingers. I've been better for it.... but I was barefoot all the time prior to purchasing. Steven is a salesman..... I should know.... I was one for over a decade. You're a good teacher Chase. Keep it up. Thanks for sitting through this guys 1hr sales pitch. You were so gracious! It's a lesson in humility and respect. I'm so impressed. I would have not been able to endure his incessant interruptions for so long. ~JB
I wear only xero shoes! I was so excited to see you two having this conversation. Love you Chase I've been following you for awhile. Your easy to understand. As always more really good information.
This is a great conversation and very much appreciated. I've had 2 diagnosis for foot pain that I've experienced since the age of 7. Now in my 40s I have orthotics which support my arches and the pain has reduced but my feet are so weak and I can barely stand on tip-toes and it's really painful to sit back on my heels with feet flat underneath. I'm tempted to try barefoot shoes but I'm nervous so it's important to have access to these informative, honest videos. Thanks Chase and Steven.
I wore my Xeros for almost a year and at first I liked them quite a bit. Then I tried some brisk walking on sidewalks and developed knee pain. The only other footwear I had handy were some Teva sandals. I wore those and the pain stopped. Also I felt like the Xeros were not that well constructed.
Love that you both are so open to hearing each other out and have an open conversation. Still am pro zeros as an ultra runner and even own a pair of their new born to run zelans, but I still have some days where my feet are fatigued and I switch it up with other styles of shoes
“I don’t have the research to prove it, but we’re undeniably better”. Unfortunately, the same reasons he says you can’t use “data” to criticize barefoot shoes are the same reasons he praises them. Also, for the record have both xero and vivobarefoot shoes. Agree with Chase that they aren’t everyone. And even if the industry isn’t continuing to explicitly make the claims they use to, if most people have the same understanding then most likely those claims are implied.
Yes but saying “Our shoes our undeniably better than Nike” is COMPLETELY different than making unsupported claims that the shoes improve your biological function. Like he said, you can’t hold barefoot shoe makers to a different standard than the rest of the industry. Every manufacturer says their shoe is the best.
Fantastic interview. Great to hear the discourse - when the dialogue stops (not just around barefoot) we start to get serious problems. I'm a barefoot hiker, every day-er, and moving in to incorporating into running. I have Vivos, Xeros and (you may not have heard of these) - wildsole sandals - based and made in the UK. New company and they are seriously on it with their sandals. I follow you Chase, and have subscribed to your Elements course, I get a lot out of your incorporating breathwork, movement, strength, flexibility, gear etc., and your phys training background... So it's great to hear the conversation with Steven who seriously knows his stuff around physiology, neurology / proprioception, etc., and puts the real misinformation culprits in the spotlight. Really got a lot out of this from both of you.
Great conversation, respect to you guys for this. It is increasingly rare to see that people can discuss with class certain things on which they have a different opinion.
I have been using Vibram shoe for roughly a month. All the pain I still have is from football, volleyball and the old mushy shoe. The pain is reducing slowly and it lasts only during the beginning of my sections, after 10 minutes running all is gone. I have finished a race 2 weeks ago with a 5 fingers shoe and my time was 4:00min/km in a 12km distance race. During this month I have tried to use the shoe whenever I can and I still haven't gotten any injuries because of the shoe. Before this shoe, I tried barefoot running but the gravel was too much for me. I like trail running.
I wonder what Steve would think of Anvil Rose thought of then xero brand as a whole. Barefoot shoes may be good. But a poorly/cheaply constructed shoe seems seems like a bad investment. I say this as a person who as also noticed the lack of quality within every xero shoe I have... At least compared to brands like vivo or even lems! BEARFOOT shoes has a few models that I think absolutely blow xero out of the water.
I've been walking in zero drop wide toe box for over 10 years, but not barefoot (Altra's have too much cushioning for that). All my foot problems went away and my forefoot is definitely a totally different shape now. And I never even wore high heels much. Now I'm just trying to figure out if minimal cushion is good for hiking boots... It's too bad nobody makes zero drop wide toe box with some cushioning but not excessive amounts so we could ease in.
Very enlightening. We need more folk having balanced open sensible discussions like this in ALL arenas. The world would I think be a better place if so. Thanks!
I liked the introduction to rather have a conversation than firing off in a reaction Video. But what followed was more like a monologue than a dialogue with the clear intent to put the brand into a better light and not talking about the actual message chase told in the original video.
Chase, you’re an excellent listener and this allowed the message to come through. Great overview on barefoot shoes in general and on the I industry. I appreciate the CEO’s willingness to speak openly.
It was basically: Chase: "I like your shoes but you don't have to be so cocky and sure of yourself, some people do have negative experiences and those experiences are legitimate" Steve: "lol that's cuz those people are stupid and I am very smart and talented"
Great conversation! I respect you for having it! I liked your video about the industry and now subscribed after watching this! I wear Xero shoes and love them but am also cautious about ‘buying in’ completely to anything.
Steven just keeps talking. He has a lot of knowledge, however, it may benefit him to actually listen. I think that Chase makes very important points about the need for strengthening and readying your feet for such a change. I don’t think Stephen disagrees, but he rudely dominated the conversation with facts presented in a way that were somewhat condescending and in an “I’m right and you’re wrong” manner. My takeaway is to watch Chase’s videos about strengthening and prepping my feet, and then look for barefoot shoes from any retailer other than Xero.
Ok so, 37:45 … I have some thoughts. This happens in every industry. The company’s may not be saying that directly, but may times there is a passive implication in ALL fitness related things that “_____
Hey Chase, Good episode, and another leap forward in the search for truth. Firstly, I love Steven's passion for ultimately, what I feel is truthful; and I do LOVE my xero shoes, they seem to work well with my foot shape. But!, although Xero shoes and vivo may be some of the largest sellers and industry leaders, they are not the entire industry, which ultimately includes smaller manufacturers, "knock offs", sorta minimalist styles, retailers and influencers. Arguing the semantics of wordings, whilst important in a more larger conversation unfortunately for him, missed the point. As a consumer the information on transitioning to a "barefoot" shoe, isn't as simple, it requires, for most anyway, a learning (or unlearning, re-learning) curve to get to the joy. To your point, without this direction, the journey is wrought with pain, injury and discomfort. "Lies"?...semantics that served a purpose, hype?...I believe there is much benefit and passion and a need for change in the shoe industry in general and it is doubtful there is a "one shoe serves all solution" but discussions like this and the mechanics of movement certainly are a "step" in the right direction. Thanks for "dropping this vid" Ps...while not Lies, it's not the whole picture either www.xeroshoes.eu/wistia-hp-playlist-fragment/
Thank you! Xero is trying to unhelpfuly narrow the idea of 'industry' and 'lies'. The big three aren't the whole industry and lies in this case don't have to be explicit untruths, it's more imply or overstating a case and not taking steps to address misinformation. Xero might be trying to correct misinformation but the industry and large does not seem to be.
Loved the conversation, guys. It was an important lesson in nuance, and a wonderfully educational piece! WAY too few likes for the amount of views this has gotten. Also, I own two pairs of Xeroshoes which I wear at work and can say that my posture, calf, foot, and ankle strength has definitely improved. I feel much more planted and powerful when I need to run. I average 25-30,000 steps a day and I'm mostly walking on thin carpet and resilient flooring. I'm definitely keeping tabs on how my feet feel, but so far, no issues at all. Love them!
xero shoes are actually way too narrow and have a rounded toebox that pushes your big toe inwards. They cut corners during manufacturing and their stuff is overpriced. And let's not get into the predatory marketing methods they use, like the 5000 mile warranty not being an actual warranty and them paying affiliates for fake reviews and gaslighting you when you complain.
I was looking into Xero shoes exactly because of them being narrow, which would fit my narrow feet better, but I read that 5000 miles warranty and thought it was so absurd....and now watching this CEO talk, I kind of get how that came to be 💀 I was almost willing to buy Xero, not anymore
Learning so much from this conversation. Thank you. Learning currently and researching before I buy a pair of more minimal shoes at 56. My feet are being a challenge and I am finding your exercises and knowledge have been so helpful. I am on my feet running around on a hard surface in a building for over 8 years ; it’s taking a toll! ❤
Great conversation! Thank you both. Would Steve consider the Altra Lone Peaks as beneficial as the Xero shoes? I wear the Xero shoes but hike/backpack in the Lone Peaks.
This is not much of a conversation, as Steven (Xero shoes) said he wanted to have. He talks almost the entire time without offering Chase much opportunity to speak, and when Chase does try to input, Steven cuts him off after about 30 seconds. Perhaps there are good points, but I'm quite frustrated and dissapointed by Steven right now, watching him blatantly dominate the "conversation", which sadly gets in the way of trusting him and what he has to say.
Stephen had a lot to say and he is clearly well informed and it was worth while listening to him. And given how much he and Chase agreed on, I am not sure Chase missed on on so many opportunities to rebut the things Stephen was saying..
That's because! Chase didn't have any to say! He had no exclamation for anything he said! Because like Steven said! He will just ask for proof and that other person won't have any! Chase didn't have any proof to back up anything he said! Simple as that! Hence why he said nothing!
@@amblincork He can be super knowledgeable and have a lot to teach and still dominate a conversation. And I mean, we all do mistakes here and there, so it doesn't mean he is not a cool guy, but I do agree that he was dominating that conversation and there was at least a moment were Chase had to stop Steven from stopping him xd.
I’ve been in Xero’s for maybe 5 or 6 years now. Transitioned very gradually, and had Xero problems. 😂 Now I have ARCHES! I’ve always had flat feet until making the switch.
@@emmanarotzky6565 I wore them for running, but started at half an hour, walking for 5 minutes, running for 30 seconds, and gradually increased the running times. I can now run 7-10 miles in xeros, and never had any foot problems. The other thing I did was wear Chacos after running. So I stressed my feet for the exercise, then put them in an orthodic shaped footbed to recover. Eventually I didn't need the Chacos afterwards, between 6 months to maybe a year? Now I'm in barefoot shoes unless I'm doing a sport that requires specialized footwear, like motorcycling or snowboarding. Transitioning gradually means the amount of time spent barefoot, take it easy and be patient. When I got my first pair I couldn't even wear them for a full day, just walking around. Calf muscles get tired REAL fast! But now I have arches, stronger feet and legs, and I can articulate my toes 🙂 Just doing what comes naturally walking around without thick soles 👍
@ChaseMountains Good content, although I found it a bit difficult to watch to the end (yet I did). All I will say regarding that is your patience, grace, and listening skills are admirable! ;-)
Spot on! "All I will say regarding that is your patience, grace, and listening skills are admirable! ;-)" The 'conversation' was definitely weighed to 1 side as far as the discussion. It was hard to watch to the end, but I did as well!
Before even watching, I respect this man for reaching out to have a conversation, and both men for agreeing to do this. Excellent! We all need to have more conversations especially about things we disagree on.
As an owner of 16 pairs of Xero shoes, have several friends change to zeros for their workout and daily use to zeros, this was an awesome video. Bravo. Steven is such an entrepreneur and has such enthusiasm. Chase, awesome job holding on and staying with it.
I have been wearing barefoot shoes since the Five Fingers first came out. I remember my first run with them and how free I felt. I then spent the next 3 weeks walking down stairs backwards as my calves took a hammering!😂. I think Case’s final point about manufacturers being more open about these are but a part solution to freer movement is a good one. Since I made the change I no longer get shin splints, hip pain and shoulder pain. But I do not put this solely down to the shoes. Keep the content coming and I really enjoyed this video.
35:14 the amount of times he interrupted you and didn't let you make any point. I hope the rest of the interview goes better cause I was really getting tired of it.
I got plantar issues from running "correctly" in barefoot shoes some years back (doing some very conservative distances and phasing the practice in gradually, btw). Roughly zero percent of serious competitive professional distance runners wear minimal shoes, and this technology has been out for a number of years now. I still wear minimal shoes, but only for walking short distances and doing balance challenges. I'm personally sticking with the Killian Jornets, Courtney Dauwalters, and Eliud Kipchoges of the world on this one. You can spend an hour saying "and we can get to this later" about these issues all you want, but the most well funded pro runners are all in highly padded footwear. I just watched some recent footage on the Kenyan elite team, and there are not exceptions to this. They all have more padded shoes than the average dude running around the park does. Kipchoge also "overpronates". Don't listen to the talk machine, listen to your body and the people who do it for a living.
It was a really good conversation, watched it all at 1.5x speed, haha! Steven seems really knowledgeable, I just started following his YT channel too. My main personal issue with switching to barefoot shoes, as a hiker, is that there can't seem to be any way their grip could compare to your classic Vibram Megagrip / Salomon Contagrip outsoles. And because I've developed acrophobia during some years when I didn't have the time to go hiking, I really start to panic on steeper slopes or narrower paths as soon as I feel the grip is anything less than extremely good (Vibram or Contagrip level). On the other hand, my knees definitely are starting to hurt and produce weird noises ever since I started using these traditional hiking boots. Back in the day I used to go up the mountains in All Stars Converse shoes (I know, really bad idea), which resemble a barefoot shoe in many ways - minimalist sole, zero drop etc. And I do feel I used to be a lot less of a heel striker back then than I am now, after some years of hiking in Salomon and Salewa and stuff like this. Lately I did go for the Merrell Long Sky 2 (based on one of your videos btw!) and I do enjoy them a lot, the Vibram Megragrip sole is fantastic (although I guess it doesn't do any brain stimulation like a barefoot sole would do) but their upper seems to wear out really fast, which was to be expected when compared to something like a Salewa leather boot. So I would say I am still lacking an ideal shoe to do hiking in, which would probably mean wide fit (although I don't have too wide feet, fortunately, and I can put my fingers amongst my toes without any pain), zero drop, not too heavy but still durable and with an outsole that is still flexible and receives a bit of ground information, but not so much that it has to sacrifice the grip on more technical or steep terrain.
I'm confused, all studies show that barefoot users have much more serious injuries compared to standard shoes. it makes sense too, they had to walk back every single health claim they previously stated.
Really good talk, and respect to Steven, I see Xero in a very positive way knowing someone like him is behind the brand, so knowledgable, personable and open
TLDR. Barefoot shoes are good, but also they’re bad.
Honestly, I just got sad for the state of human relations today by watching this. This guy promotes wanting to have the conversation because so few people nowadays do it, then proceeds to not say anything.
@z0uLess or maybe people don't know how to hear conversations
@@burgermind802 thank you for demonstrating my point
Like everything.
Hi Chase,
Maybe I missed something but I don't understand how you have come to the conclusion that barefoot shoes are also bad.
Steven brilliantly dismantled any argument blaming barefoot shoes as a cause to the issues you have expressed. The cause is clearly poor form and many years of not properly using the muscles in your feet. The shoes simply reveal the issues that are already present.
If someone who drove an automatic car for many years switched to a stick shift and then had an accident, would you blame the car or would you blame the drivers lack of experience?
You wouldn't say that stick shifts cause accidents.
In the same way the shoe is not causing the problems and therefore it's not the shoe that's bad. The foot health is bad.
If there was something else in this conversation that I'm missing here please let me know
I wish all CEOs would know their sh*it like Steven. Yes, he talks a lot, constantly bordering on being annoying. But his talks aren‘t empty. There are few people on this planet being as knowledgable and passionate about barefoot running is this guy. He‘s a walking compendium always having an answer that‘s more than just personal opinion.
Thanks for doing this talk and posting it.
Steven is highly analytical. He cares 100% about the detail of the details. The shoe players care about money. Steven wants truth based on all the science and experience he can find. Thanks for mentioning he cares. I started with 5 fingers in 2008 after years of beaches and hiking with no foot covering. I am 68.😊
😂😂😂
So intelligent and so understanding I wish he kept talking lol
And so passionate knows he’s stuff
Steve fights back against your point that the industry’s answer seems to be “just spend more time in barefoot shoes and eventually you’ll be ok and adapt” by saying he and Vivo have never said that. Then on multiple occasions he says things like “take it slow, run 20 seconds and see how sore you are. If you’re sore run less time. As you progress and lose soreness run longer. Take it slow and don’t over do it” aka just spend more time in barefoot shoes and eventually you’ll adapt.
I love the willingness on both sides to actually have a conversation. What a revelation! Thank you both for doing it.
Vivo are far superior ❤
Xero designs sucks , the CEO is very knowledgeable about bare foot lifestyle but as he said , his head is in his bum , and so does his company.
@shannonpeacock307 Imagine if the rulers of government behaved like this...maybe we could have peace?
@@Teramonor I love the Xero shoes. I'd try the Vivo if they brought the price down to reasonable levels. Still, the best barefoot shoe is the Vibram Five Finger but I can't wear them at work.
I wouldn't call this a conversation, more like a monologue.
@@cristi724Exactly! The Xero guy won't let him finish a sentence! I just purchased some Xero shoes and an taking a Gait Happens course on foot strengthening, and they certainly stress the transition phase. Yay, he just made him stop interrupting!
Through this video I learn to appreciate Xero better as a company. I love how his CEO is willing to speak to anyone openly about his products. I think everybody here would love to see that same openness from other companies.
Videos like this are exactly why I support Xero shoes. It is clear to me the leaders of this company, and its employees, are passionate about changing how we walk and run to better our health. Sure, I had some quality issues with a pair of my Xero shoes, but they were kind enough to help me and eventually sent me a new pair.
Vivo are far superior ❤
Xero designs sucks , the CEO is very knowledgeable about bare foot lifestyle but as he said , his head is in his bum , and so does his company.
Openness or forcefulness?
@@TeramonorEvidence? I think your head might be in vivid bum!
This video sold me on the xero brand
If all CEOs did this, the world will be a much better place
Pfizer?
How so
Vivo are far superior ❤
Xero designs sucks , the CEO is very knowledgeable about bare foot lifestyle but as he said , his head is in his bum , and so does his company.
I agree. Having a conversation about your own product is holding a mirror up to your whole self. You get a objective perspective!
@@Teramonorit's bizarre you keep posting the same verbatim comment over and over in reponse to comments. I really like all the Vivo barefoot shoes I have owned. My only gripe is the cost to be honest. I have a few Xero shoes and they are also great. But to be honest I don't like the way they look as much but the price is better which means I can afford them more than Vivo. Your comment seems like a weird fanboy comment and not objective at all. Especially since you parrot the same comment over and over.
I had knee replacement 4 years ago. I had some serious issues develop with my foot afterwards and had real troubles with every shoe and boot I wore afterwards. I lost my ability to hike more than a mile without real pain and circulation problems. I made the switch to barefoot shoes and the troubles I had began to quickly subside and since I am able backpack and hike 15 plus miles with no problems. Anecdotal? Maybe, but I'm here to say barefoot shoes restored my ability to backpack miles.
what shoes exactly?
@watch-Dominion-2018 Xero, interestingly enough. I first tried the Prio but it was the Oswego that won me over. Those have the perfect fit for me with a wider toe box area similar to how Keen make theirs. They have discontinued the Oswego, unfortunately.
@@skunksdoinglaundry what's the exact shoe model ?
I'm doing PT to rehab a proximal hamstring tendinopathy. PT has insisted barefoot shoes when running. Within 1 month of running in then I know have medial knee pain, calf and achilles pain that has made me have to quite running completely it's so severe. Barefoot running may be for me someday but clearly it didn't solve all my problems. I started running at one mike and then gradually worked up to 5 miles over the month wearing new balance minimus which I've worn walking (not running) for over 5 years so while running in minimal support is new for me - walking in them for up to 7 miles a day is not. I'm super bummed now bc in addition to rehabbing my tendon now I'm sore frankly all
over.
@karenk9404 sorry your recovery isn't going well. I went through 9 weeks of PT and pushed really hard. I got straight back to hiking again after surgery and pushed hard with it as well. My goal was to be able to backpack long distances as soon as possible. I tried every shoe from trail runners to boots and found them to be crippling and too hard to hike in. I came across the barefoot shoes after some reading and gave them a shot. Somehow, they made all the difference. I have been able to step up to zero drop trail runners at this point but still wear my barefoot on a regular basis.
How refreshing!! Two people actually getting together and intelligently and calmly discussing a topic! Cheers to these two men!
Two people conversing ? 10 min in and I only hear and see 1 dude being disrespectful hogging the 'conversation'.
Edit: 18 min in
@@dominoediggs4790i couldn’t agree with you more! This xero guy knows his stuff, can’t deny that, but man, painful to listen to!! Talks so much and so fast. Super annoying. His knowledge seems incredible, his delivery is brutal.
It's not very refreshing to hear a monologue... I agree with the calmly on the host's part, it's hard to keep so calm when you are constantly being interrupted, your points are quickly dismissed and the subjects you bring up skillfully changed
This is a fascinating conversation, between the CEO of my favorite sandals, and the guy who helped me strengthen my lower body for he trail running that I love do to in those sandals. Thank you both! Also, I'd like to learn more from Steve about the weird hip-swinging, effortless hill climbing.
In that case check out the video that I posted last week!
which sandals do you have by them?? :)
Steven Shahen is the man. Love that he did this and had a full hour unedited convo with you.
Roughly 2yrs ago I entered the barefoot world. By using Chase's suggestions (ie movement/exercises/balance/gradual changes, humble explanations), my transition to literally walking barefoot and wearing barefoot shoes was smooth and enjoyable. Awesome video... thanks again Chase 😊🌅
This is how actual learning happens. Now we need all governmental bodies and learning institutions to adopt this style of discourse over contentious issues. Well done, man. Cheers to you both!
I just got into barefoot shoes. 69 years old and loving that I can fix my feet! I just donated three bags of “regular”;shoes that I refuse to wear ever again!
So, I like this guy Steven…and I am now looking at his brand…
So cool to see you guys discuss this issue! I’ve been a “barefoot” footwear user for many years in a very active lifestyle, and my experiences run parallel to your own. Adopting minimalist footwear is a project that requires a long term game plan, wearing these types of footwear without paying close attention to your body mechanics and health throughout the whole process is a mistake I see a lot of people make. There is just simply such a dramatic difference in the way I walk with barefoot shoes, that changing back to regular shoes requires almost a whole different way of walking.
How do you safely make the switch? is there a good reliable source to look at for information about it?
@@BrianaLynn7 baby steps! This guy @ChaseMountains has the best information I’ve seen in many years.
From my own experience:
First get yourself a pair of barefoot shoes you wanna try out (personally I recommend Vivobarefoot or Luna Sandals) and just wear them around the house for a couple of hours on the weekend without doing anything too strenuous (don’t go running). Just walking around your house (hardwood especially) you will begin to notice you have to bring your foot down to hit the ground at a different point than you are used too. This change is the transition from heel foot striking and “slapping” the ground with our feet like we normally do, to landing near the mid foot and rolling through the outside (anterior) portion of the footpad into the footpad. If you walk on hard cement with barefoot shoes you will very quickly notice the pain that comes with slapping the ground, and for that reason I highly recommend wearing barefoot shoes for low-energy activities and for short periods of time until the muscles in your feet and calves have developed enough for you to start more athletic adventures. I wore them at work for 2 months before I felt ready to wear them around town for a whole day of sightseeing. During that time I worked a retail floor job and was on my feet the whole day, the first few weeks my feet were sore when I got home but that eventually went away.
Since it’s summer, I very highly recommend Luna Sandals for hiking and every day wear. They are a very barefoot shoe, and designed with modern materials after a running shoes style that have been used in South America for many generations. Could write more, just let me know if you have more questions!
@@aidandodge466Does all this information apply if you've spent enough years walking barefoot (without shoes) that regular shoes always hurt (I've never owned a pair of 'barefoot' shoes)?
@@Icemario87 good question! If you’ve already been walking barefoot (outside too?) for many years you are already well ahead in your foot-health journey. There should be no need to transition back to anything like a Hoka or Altra (lots of cushion), but if you are looking for a bit more “underfoot protection” for hiking/running outdoors than I would say you are perfectly positioned to go straight to a barefoot shoe with 10mm or less of sole thickness (this includes outsole + insole). Luna Sandals has several models in this thickness and I highly recommend any of them. My favorite models come with the Performance Straps which can tuen the sandal from a casual piece into a performance piece of footwear in a couple of seconds. I’ve hiked outdoors with a 10-14mm sole Luna sandal (daypack weight = 15LBS) for many hundreds of days and felt like a true forest elf. A 10mm outdoor barefoot sandal/shoe is the ultimate “endgame” for someone pursuing optimal foot health I feel. Just remember to find a good skin moisturizer as the more time actually barefoot or wearing sandals will dry out the bottom of your feet and they can crack painfully after about 6 months. Don’t forget to pamper yourself every once in awhile!
@@aidandodge466 Well I'm a city boy and a city slicker so when I say "a lot of time barefoot" i probably mean something like not wearing shoes indoors or while driving and maybe even kicking them off under the table during long meetings. So like, more than 12 hours a day outside of a footbinding.
Excellent. I love it when two rational people actually have a meaningful adult discussion to hash out perceived differences!
The frequency that he asks you to pause shows how dense the info in the original video was, great job!
As a person who has run in barefoot footwear or barefoot since 2009, I have been successful (except when I wore a brand that rhymes with Merrell on a treadmill) despite not knowing that I should do so gradually. Please do not follow my lead on that. Steven Sashen is a smart, knowledgeable speaker on the topic making this video informative and enjoyable. Thank you, Chase, for allowing yourself to be vulnerable and producing the video.
Man, I'm a brand new barefoot guy (just been walking in my new Xeros) and this video was huge for me. Thanks for putting it together, y'all we're both great communicors and respectful
A conversation that I never knew I’d be so fascinated by. Well done, lads! A great open dialogue that was very eye-opening.
How to Lie Using Statistics is an excellent book that I highly recommend everyone read! Don’t be duped by stats. Also, thank you to BOTH of you for making the video and doing the adult thing and actually having a conversation (what a concept!) about your disagreements. This was so informative and I learned a lot. As a newish hiker looking for the right shoes for me, I really appreciate the knowledge that was brought to the table on this one. THANK YOU 🙏
Thankyou for this! It’s crazy seeing a ceo actually take time to not only speak with their consumers but state in a factual and non-provocative way their argument.
Really helpful video. I hope Steven’s wife talks as much as he does and/or is very confident. This was 25% conversation and 75% lecture.
Oh my I was thinking the same thing. Then I thought..there's no way this dude has a wife! You have to communicate to have a relationship and this dude doesn't seem to know how to shut it and listen
His shoes are crap, but he's sincere about people learning "barefoot" form.
Why are they crap@@umbertosmith7014
@@dominoediggs4790 Yes, Steve is very passionate about this and can really border on irritating. He does have a tendency to talk over and interrupt. I will say I had a chance once to speak to him personally and he was much more relaxed, he was curious about me and let me talk about myself and my experience and there was almost a shyness about him. I think he and his wife get along just fine.
@@umbertosmith7014 I guess his shoes are crap for you. I've gotten my self out of foot and hip pain transitioning first to sandles, then to hiking shoes, then to everyday shoes and now even Xero slippers. I've never felt better.
I wear flat wide shoes and I'm good. I wear regular sneakers, my back hurts and my feet can't move. Awful! It's not brain surgery. It makes perfect sense! I'm a size 6.5, women's, regular ( I don't have a wide foot). Very active. The flat, wide toe box shoes changed my life.
Same here. My feet, knees, and hips were wrecked. Barefoot shoes changed everything, I can even walk around barefoot without pain. And my feet look ripped now lol 😂
Yeah. My toes were always squished. Horrible. I have barefoot shoes. My back doesn't hurt anymore and my feet feel great.
Love when you SPOKE UP to him and said youve spoken a lot now let me finish! Good job! I enjoyed hearing both of you. Contemplating buying the xero prios but the reviews say they tear apart fast... 😮
Can't wait to get to that part
If you haven't yet, get them. I'm in love with my prios after wearing them for 3 months.
Super insightful conversation and was a joy to watch-love Steven’s conversation speed and energy!
I know most people find this annoying, but it’s refreshing to hear someone who doesn’t sound like he’s mentally stuck at parking lot speeds!
Dude had so much more patience with Steven interrupting him than I ever could have. Props
That was the format they agreed to do though: play the previous video, pause it and talk about the stuff in it.
Also Steven is very obviously extremely knowledgeable. No one gets mad at a professor for correcting a student. That's literally what this is.
@@Ashton_Speaks his whole livelihood is on the line. Hes even got his shoes in the background trying to make a sale. Thats the priority for him.
He’s right through. The main critique was basically click baity and attributing general misunderstanding with false advertising. It’s not up to the corporations to teach people that to be strong you have to train and not simply wear minimal shoes. Barefoot shoes are simply meant to get out of the way. Being barefoot would be ideal but it’s not possible in many modern situations.
The shoes aren’t here to make you stronger they are here to not smash your toes and kill your feedback in situations where you need to wear a shoe.
@@richardemerson8075 It played out like "play the previous video, pause it and I dump my thoughts and will interrupt you after 2 seconds of starting talking". I am not saying he is wrong or right, but that's not how you drive a conversation.
I love that this man wanted to join in conversation. If you know your subject, experts can disagree but one should not be afraid to engage. It's how we advance.
Just wanted to say I appreciated this as someone just trying to get into barefoot shoes.
I also appreciated you standing up for yourself when he kept cutting you short, great conversation either way.
From this conversation, I have learned several things:
1. That the transition to the type of Barefoot footwear can really be a task not as simple as it may seem.
2. That most of everything that is said and talked about this type of footwear is not supported by scientific studies, so you have to be very cautious about everything you see and read about the subject.
3. That the experience that is worth for one in the transition to Barefoot does not have to be valid for others.
4. That I am not alone in the problems that I am having in the transition to Barefoot and that surely many other people are having problems similar to mine.
5. That the brain has to be given time so that it also assimilates the change that you are printing in your body, that is, it is not only a physical issue, but also a neurological issue.
6. That the CEO of Xero is a person with great knowledge of this subject and that he is passionate about the subject unlike what probably happens with the CEOs of other brands especially of non-Barefoot brands, where the push that moves them is probably a more economical than therapeutic issue.
7. That Xero’s CEO seems to be a really very close person. I wonder what it will be like to work with him in his company on a day-to-day basis.
De esta conversación, he aprendido varias cosas:
1. Que la transición a el tipo de calzado Barefoot realmente puede ser una tarea no tan simple como puede parecer.
2. Que la mayoría de todo lo que se dice y se habla de este tipo de calzado no está respaldado por estudios científicos con lo cual hay que ser muy precavido con todo lo que uno de ve y lee sobre el tema.
3. Que la experiencia que vale para uno en la transición a Barefoot no tiene porque valer para otros.
4. Que no estoy solo en los problemas que estoy teniendo yo en la transición a Barefoot y que seguramente otra mucha gente está teniendo problemas similares a los míos.
5. Que al cerebro hay que darle tiempo para que él también vaya asimilando el cambio que estás imprimiendo en tu cuerpo, o sea que no es solo una cuestión física, sino también neurológica.
6. Que el CEO de Xero es una persona con grandes conocimientos de esta temática y que le apasiona el tema al contrario que lo que probablemente suceda con los CEO de otras marcas sobre todo de marcas no Barefoot, donde probablemente el empuje que les mueva sea una cuestión más económica que terapéutica.
7. Que el Ceo de Xero parece ser una persona realmente muy cercana. Me pregunto cómo será trabajar con él en su empresa en el día a día.
Thank you I didn’t have the attention to watch this fully 😂
Small point of contention. Did mankind evolve to run around on industrial surfaces? Or perhaps have our feet been trying to for the last several hundred years.
All that impact can't be that good for the somewhat vulnerable structure of our feet.
Any thoughts, rants, death threats from the interweb?
As a person with genetic flat feet I appreciated this information personally ❤ loved the business, legal, and neurological insight. TRULY helpful in navigating a very frustrating “social” debate that feels important to my health and life capabilities. Thank you both
im flat footed as well its not genetic. It was the baby shoes
Thank you so much for this video. I am brand new to barefoot/minimalist shoes and I learned so much. Xero has a convert in me. I appreciate that this CEO took the time to share this information with us.
In hopes that this reaches the Xero shoes team, I chose Vivo over Xero because I wanted my trail runners to have the potential to be an everyday shoe as well. Right now, I just can't get behind the design/colors of Xero shoes. Hope this feedback helps!
Yea I’m not a huge fan of the brights colors but I do believe just about every Xero shoe has a white or blackout version.
Do Xero have an equivalent to Revivo? That's where I get majority of my shoes from. Barely worn and much less ££.
Yes, I am the same… Xero look like Walmart shoes. Hope they can improve the look eventually.
Same I’m not a fan of the color combos. They look like wrestling shoes & im looking for an everyday shoe too but in good colors
Vivobarefoot is a far superior shoe than Xero.
Respect to both Steven and Chase for doing this video! Hope to see more of this in the future. What’s your experience on the xeroshoes with your recent hike, Chase?
So far so good, seems to be wearing through on the rubber a bit too fast. Certainly more affordable than vivo
Do you track your distance (e.g. on Strava)? He mentioned a guarantee of a certain number of miles, didn't he?
@@ChaseMountains I recommend FiveFingers, Freet, or Topo Athletic. MUCH better than Xero.
As a climber and xc skier (two sports with narrow, specialized footwear), the discussion about how wearing healthy footwear the rest of the time being what really matters was really encouraging.
I tried barefoot running when it was popular in the early 2010s, but got injured. I didn’t transition well and it turns out that I wasn’t really wearing the right shoes. The Merrell barefoots definitely weren’t wide enough in my toe box. Thanks for this realization too.
My current struggle is transitioning slowly enough, since my mainstream footwear is really uncomfortable now and hurts my hips.
Oddly, I never thought of XC ski boots as uncomfortable, especially compared to a downhill ski boot. I will admit that there are strange torques applied to the foot in most types of skiing.
I am pretty conservative in my running shoe choices, but I tend more towards less cushion.
*I had the same experience with pointing toes and pulling at the ground. I discovered if I land more flat-footed and use my quads to push myself forward that my tibialis stopped hurting and my ability to jog longer increased dramatically.*
Later I learned that some Japanese guy already discovered this technique.
I switched to Whitin barefoot shoes 4 years ago for everyday use and their trail runner for hikes. No painful transition and it has helped my foot and back pain immensely. I’ve been itching to try the Xero Alpines for this winter and moneys tight but after this conversation I’m sold on trying out Steven’s shoes due to this great conversation.
I refuse to pay the prices Xero and the other “elite” barefoot shoes are charging, I’ve been completely happy with the Whitins I’ve gotten. I LOVE their canvas shoes for casual. So comfortable and great “recovery shoes” after wearing heavy work boots all week. They have lasted really well, too. $35 for almost 3 years of wear is awesome!
I agree.
It was great to hear from Steven and inside the top level of the industry, especially the challenges to all the strawman arguments that are used. Finally, some truth, vs click bait. The statement that that "Big Shoe" won't produce barefoot shoes because it would mean admitting they were wrong, really hits hard. Of course that, and the marketing sabotage aimed at the companies making barefoot shoes, makes total sense. Shoes are not a religion, they're a tool.....that's been turned into a religion.
I started racing XC in '75 just a few years into the "Run like 'Pre (Steve Prefontaine)" movement that was sweeping the nation, via Nike, Runners World Magazine, and Bill Bowerman's invented shoes, which had been picked up by Nike and sold as the "Waffle Trainer." I raced through 2 years of college, and continued on doing club racing in the Half, and did 1 Marathon. In '97 I permanently injured my left knee while training for a race, and was unable to run after that. In July 2012 I purchased my first pair of Vibram FiveFingers (Bikila model), at the age of 49. Ran 7.5mi on the trails of the local 1,200' peak, that day. No pain, incredible experience, and I was back to running again!! I ran 27mi that week, on a combination of trails and road/sidewalks. NOT how to transition into barefoot running...but I'm competitive with myself, and just get after it. I'm 59 and still running in them. My daughter joined me in 2012, in 8th grade, and we still run together. She ran and raced in the FiveFingers and other barefoot shoes in XC, varsity, all 4 years in high school, and was the only member of the teams who was never injured. She also raced varsity track all 4 years, and raced all distances from the 100m to 3200m, including the 4x100m relay as the anchor. Very fast girl.
I used the FF's to spool my training and be able to do annual rim-2-rim runs in the Grand Canyon, and have done 10 in 8yrs, as XC runs (no poles, no walking the ups). I've also run 4 rim-2-rivers, racing down the S. Kaibab in attempts to get to Black Bridge in an hour (fastest time for me was repeatedly, 1:15min). I do other "big" runs in Sequoia Nat'l Park, and Kings Canyon Nat'l Park, which are 4hrs drive away. Was just there running last weekend, in the July snowpack! ua-cam.com/video/DGeg0p2rRU0/v-deo.html
I'm currently wrapping up the recovery of having Open Wedge, High Tibial Osteotomy surgeries to straighten my life-long bowed legs. Surgeries were in late Jan '23 and late Mar '23. I ran for the first time at 90 days after the 1st surgery, which is unheard of. It's now July '23, and I'm already back to normal, long distance, trail running, and am probably a year ahead of the predicted healing schedule. My Ortho doesn't understand it, and has never seen anyone heal so fast. Yet here I am, turning 60 in less than a month, still running in FiveFingers, and currently training for another R2R run (I run them. I don't walk the ups or use poles) in the Grand Canyon on my birthday. It'll be my 11th, since 2015, plus 4 Rim2Rivers since 2020. All in FiveFingers.
That’s awesome! I’m healing from a tibial plateau fracture. Walking around in minimal shoes and doing mini trampoline work to prepare for running with my show dogs again. I’m only 4 months since injury and started small pre-running exercises at PT this week. My therapist is amazed at my progress!
@@Doktracy Excellent job turning that injury around. I've seen X-rays of those, and WOW!! I'm a firm believer in early weight bearing, and stressing the bone (appropriated to circumstances) for stronger bone structure healing. I also ate in a way to really promote bone growth.
I closed out last year with the R2R as a marathon distance, on my 60th, mid-Aug. '23. I pushed the training harder, and 3 weeks later, raced a trail half with 2,800-something feet of vert, and placed 3rd overall. I kept the training ramped up, and returned to the Grand Canyon on Oct. 7th, to run another R2R, as a marathon distance, and as a speed run. I wasn't done racing, so the first weekend in Nov., I raced another trail half, in the same area as the previous one. 2,500-something feet of vert. and placed 1st overall.
First week of Dec. '23, I had the plates removed from the HTO sights, and was back trail running a half, on Jan. 1st. I returned to downhill/alpine skiing to celebrate 1yr post-op on the first surgery, and skied 8 days in 8 weeks, to reach the 1yr post-op anniversary on my 2nd leg.
This was extremely helpful and educational. I greatly appreciate both Chase and Steven for their focus on discovering the truth about biomechanics in general and for their willingness to civilly discuss and debate the finer points of this sub-topic. Thank you!
Interesting chat. Glad you shared this. It's not easy to get called out on. I've been using barefoot shoes for almost 2 years now and collected way too many. I wear them daily and stand hours a day on hard surfaces. It took me 4-6 months to relearn how to walk when transitioning and I'm still learning something new. I still treat them as a way to train my walking gait. I still wear trail runners on most backpacking trips but hope the 'training' with barefoot shoes keeps my gait the same to prevent injury. These days, daily ankle, hip, and shoulder mobility exercises has been great. Interesting he brought up Feldenkrais. I watch some Taro Iwamoto UA-cam videos for pain treatment.
Chase, you’re a champ for putting up with all the interruptions! Great conversation though. Learned a lot.
MAN, you're such a humble dude and I really admire your way of arguing for your point at the same time as you are eager to learn by listening. That's why you know so much, and I bet you don't have a lot of enemies. Cred to you for being a sport and such a good guy!
I wore barefoot shoes for a year and developed significant pain in both feet. Stuck it out for some time thinking my feet just needed to adapt before I had to give it up. For me zero drop, anatomical toe box, and a midsole work best and I’ve found topo athletic checks all these boxes.
Same for me - Altra tick those boxes too. I want to try Topo too
@@RXP91yep Altra is my choice too. Got some heel pain in my left foot but tbh I think it's because I'm overweight, I don't blame the shoes.
I don't think you can transition and NOT do foot and ankle strengthening work. I have flat feet and transitioned to zero drop shoes ( I have tolos, 2 xero, and vivo pairs) currently and before that I bought a cheap $30 noname pair off Amazon to try it out. I bought exercise programs to do with the transition. My feet got bigger and wider at the toes but also narrower at midsole. Ive had no problems at all with foot pain or ankle pain. Only issue I run into is knee discomfort when wearing my workboots for work.
@@SutekhDaSteemroller that’s great for you. As far as I’m aware those aren’t the issues I was having. More power to those who vivo and related footwear works for them. I’m not one of them and my comment was to let others know if this isn’t working for them no need to force the issue.
check out Lem’s - most comfortable shoe I ever wore
This is pretty amazing, this was great to watch! I’m new to barefoot shoes and I have so much respect that the CEO Xero shoes came on here and broke this stuff down. Also props to the channel creator for talking with him and trying to hold his weight in a conversation with a very passionate person.
this was honestly so great to hear. Really good info for him to talk about how to acclimate and reawaken your nervous system to start realizing HOW to run barefoot again. This is actually what I've struggle with recently, feeling like Im going into old foot posture issues even though my foot now is much stronger than before i started (9 months ago)
I read Born to Run when it first came out, and it got me into running out of a mostly sedentary lifestyle. I started with a forefoot strike (on the couch-to-5k plan), and shortly after finishing a couple 5k's, I switched from running shoes to fivefingers - they became the only shoe I've used for runs and workouts. I even completed a handful of spartan sprints in them. The only "regret" that I've had about them is they make the footlock on a rope climb very painful. 🤷
Thank you, gentlemen. I loved every minute.
I would really like for barefoot/minimalist discussions to include the necessity of toe socks. While many people run without socks, most do not. I believe many enthusiasts are cramming their toes into an elastic sock, negating the possibility of toe spread.
My journey away from clunkers has been a blast! Three years ago, I was experiencing ever-increasing pain and injury after runs. Initially, I “upgraded”my gym shoes to Asics Kayano but the frequency and severity of pain and injury escalated. In search of relief, I then purchased Mizuno Wave Sky, then Hoka One One Clifton, but each model left me with a new level of pain and injury. I ran in each pair of shoes until they were ready for replacement, so each pair was given a fair shake. Next, I tried increasing my time between runs; no improvement. Then, I decreased my distance and intensity; no improvement. While running in my Hokas one day and contemplating my impending On Cloud Stratus purchase, I began to read Born to Run.
After reading McDougall’s book, I decided to pivot toward barefoot. However, I was already in great pain from two torn menisci, and arthritic ankles, knees, hips, and spine. I first began with zero drop Altra Rivirea. Within days, my heel braking was eliminated and injury-related pain began to subside. After a few hundred miles, I reduced stack by switching Altra Escalantés. As my running distance, frequency, and intensity increased, pain levels reduced and injuries eventually became nonexistent. After graduating to Altra Racers a few months ago, I had exhausted my options for reducing stack within the Altra brand.
Recently, I’ve purchased Xero Zellen road shoes and Luna Oso sandals. I’ve been walking in them for weeks now. After my half marathon this weekend, I’ll retire my Escalanté Racers and begin running exclusively in Zellens.
I’ve been gradually going through the same process with trail running and will soon be retiring my Altra Lone Peaks in favor of Xero Mesa Trails.
Who knows what the future holds for this 53 year old, but I’ll certainly not be wearing clunkers ever again.
Thanks again, gentlemen. This was an outstanding interview.
Are socks really that strong that your toe muscles can’t stretch the sock to the sides?
@@emmanarotzky6565, many running socks are, yes. Balega is not too bad, but many others are very compressive. The switch to a wide toe box shoe allows for natural toe splay. Nearly every traditional sock will discourage splay to some degree. Additionally, toe socks greatly reduce the occurrence of corns and blisters between toes.
Up until recently, I was a caregiver for a company that provided services for elderly and disabled people, as well as others temporarily incapacitated because of surgery. I was shocked and concerned by the heavy, stiff, constricting shoes prescribed for my clients who had a history of falling. I have no medical training, just hands on experience working with all kinds of people with mobility issues.
One client, who I showered and helped with his exercises, etc. had developed what I called a frozen ankle. It had almost no movement. He went to PT but almost nothing was done about his ankle. Like a lot of elderly people who fall, he had fallen more than once and it was usually while pivoting to one side. I think that immobile ankle was my client's primary problem.
I used to massage his feet and ankles after his shower and before our exercise session. It was almost impossible for him to do the toe lifts or heel lifts in our routine with those clunky stiff shoes, nevermind foot circles. And sadly, sometime after I stopped being his caregiver, he fell in the bathroom, hit his head and died.
I am now on the other end of things. I had a heart attack 5 years ago, followed by a quadruple bypass that resulted in nerve damage, because I was improperly positioned on the operating table. I have severe SI pain and pain in my hip joints that makes it almost impossible for me to walk more than 5 minutes. And as I have become so sedentary, especially during the pandemic lockdowns, my weight has climbed and my overall health is awful. So I am determined to change.
I am interested in these barefoot shoes as maybe a means of teaching my body to walk better. I walk barefoot in the house all the time. I feel a lot less pain walking indoors. I wouldn't walk barefoot outside where I live, though, because there ARE needles on the closest paved trail, sorry to say, as well as dog poop and broken glass. I also have Type 2 diabetes and am scared of any foot wounds.
I would love to learn more about how to prepare to wear these barefoot shoes, and how to learn from and adjust to my body's feedback. Can you suggest where to begin? I will take a look at your other videos, in the meantime.
And I just wanted to share that I have observed that shoes that are supposed to help the elderly really seem barbaric and counterproductive to me.
BTW - I ran cross country in high school, played basketball and ran for pleasure in college, did yoga for maybe 20 years, rode my bike to work and back which was 20 miles round trip. Then I worked as a reporter for about 30 years and didn't have a life Now I am 69 and in terrible shape and it's incredibly depressing. I want the next 10 or more years of my life to be incredible and I need a fit body in order to complete a very active bucket list.
Hey, just wanted to let you know I appreciated what you shared. I'm sorry about that gentleman you were helping falling. Sigh. Regarding you, just use them for a little bit each day, for a week or so. Then increase the time a little bit more each week or two. It's a workout for your feet, so you gotta go about it like working out basically. Don't do too much too fast or you'll be too sore. I wasn't obese, but I always had problems with my feet. I will never go back to regular shoes. Wide toe box and zero drop is where it's at. Love you and wish you all the very best!
You can do it!!
Just want to add my appreciation of what you wrote here 😞 And, you keep going, slowly slowly and especially don't forget to REST = the time when your brain reconfigures, a very important part of learning new skills including new movement patterns. I like the saying "The pause is as important as the note" And when you find yourself in a state of deep relaxation - stay there! For as long as you can. It's in that deep relaxation that the nervous system reconfigures.
Neat. I’ve drawn my own conclusions after lifting heavy and running in vibrams vs slightly more built up footwear - don’t go too hard too fast! Sometimes a thicker protective sole is the way to go. Tools in the toolbox
He says that his company don't make those kinds of blanket claims, but on his site, "If your feet don’t feel as good at the end of the day as they did in the beginning, you haven’t tried the Z-Trail EV."
... Do i misunderstand or isn't this the kind of blanket over zealous marketing that Chase was trying to push back against?
Yeah...I came out of this video with a worse opinion of barefoot shoes, just by the attitude of that CEO. When you come to a "discussion" video not willing to listen, and completely dismissing the other person's points...that's a Red flag.
Yup. Steve sounds like a marketing tool and bullshit artist. Bully tactics.
Super informative video, really made me curious to try Xeros now. I've been wearing barefoot shoes for 11ish years now, really made a change in my posture and gait, gained a lot of foot strength and stability, and my toes are visibly more spread now in their relaxed state, so much so that I've just had to donate a couple pairs of old (also barefoot!) shoes that are no longer wide enough. I was sooo happy to hear about the neurological differences in adapting to different movement, as I am also aware that neurodivergent people, especially autistic folks, can often have poor proprioception and/or not register pain normally - thus making the transition more difficult. I can also add my N=1 memory of first sprinting in a Vibram to catch a bus... The first 4 footfalls hurt, so by the time the 5th landed I just switched my stride and started landing on the balls of my feet. It felt wonderful and liberating, and I've hated running all my life, yes, even back as a kid! So yeah, definitely we're all different and hike our own hikes and walk our own walks but for me, personally, and many of my friends and family, barefoot shoes have been an invaluable tool to regain foot health and strength.
Thank you for having an intellectual conversation about both sides of the barefoot shoe argument. I have huge respect for you and Steven after listening to your respectful discussion. This is SO MUCH BETTER than a s&$#-show shouting match. I’ve been running for forty years and have come to my own terms with barefoot shows, using them for specific purposes (including walking and strength training). BTW, we will be having the same argument/conclusion over the problems with “super shoes” coming soon. Thanks again Chase, this was excellent!
You're a good sport for doing this. Not easy. Well done.
Thank you both for having this conversation, I benefited from listening to the both of you discussing a topic with respect for one another.
Thank you for this talk. And I appreciate you standing your ground on not being entirely talked over. I want to be able to believe in this system as I am considering progressing into minimalist or, I guess, anatomical footwear, but I can’t trust opinions forced onto people from the barefoot side of the argument just as I can’t from the opposite
I feel the Barefoot Shoe Industry should be more forthright in promoting "proper form" over the promotion of their shoes. the marketing of these shoes could better inform the general public that there is a requirement to ease in to such shoes AND that other strength training and form change may very well be required. I've been in barefoot shoes since the first 5Fingers. I've been better for it.... but I was barefoot all the time prior to purchasing. Steven is a salesman..... I should know.... I was one for over a decade. You're a good teacher Chase. Keep it up. Thanks for sitting through this guys 1hr sales pitch. You were so gracious! It's a lesson in humility and respect. I'm so impressed. I would have not been able to endure his incessant interruptions for so long. ~JB
I wear only xero shoes! I was so excited to see you two having this conversation. Love you Chase I've been following you for awhile. Your easy to understand.
As always more really good information.
Me too!
This is a great conversation and very much appreciated. I've had 2 diagnosis for foot pain that I've experienced since the age of 7. Now in my 40s I have orthotics which support my arches and the pain has reduced but my feet are so weak and I can barely stand on tip-toes and it's really painful to sit back on my heels with feet flat underneath. I'm tempted to try barefoot shoes but I'm nervous so it's important to have access to these informative, honest videos. Thanks Chase and Steven.
It’s never too late to start with even something as little as seated feet exercises!
I wore my Xeros for almost a year and at first I liked them quite a bit. Then I tried some brisk walking on sidewalks and developed knee pain. The only other footwear I had handy were some Teva sandals. I wore those and the pain stopped. Also I felt like the Xeros were not that well constructed.
Love that you both are so open to hearing each other out and have an open conversation. Still am pro zeros as an ultra runner and even own a pair of their new born to run zelans, but I still have some days where my feet are fatigued and I switch it up with other styles of shoes
Same me🔝🦾👏
“I don’t have the research to prove it, but we’re undeniably better”. Unfortunately, the same reasons he says you can’t use “data” to criticize barefoot shoes are the same reasons he praises them. Also, for the record have both xero and vivobarefoot shoes. Agree with Chase that they aren’t everyone. And even if the industry isn’t continuing to explicitly make the claims they use to, if most people have the same understanding then most likely those claims are implied.
The burden of proof is on whoever advocates for cushioned shoes, etc. The natural state until the 1970s was no cushion, etc.
Yes but saying “Our shoes our undeniably better than Nike” is COMPLETELY different than making unsupported claims that the shoes improve your biological function. Like he said, you can’t hold barefoot shoe makers to a different standard than the rest of the industry. Every manufacturer says their shoe is the best.
What a great interview, you both earned a subscription from me,
you’re both saying things, and asking questions that I’ve asked.
Great conversation
Thank you for posting it, Chase!
I am curious to know if you counted how many times you have been interrupted in total 😅
Fantastic interview. Great to hear the discourse - when the dialogue stops (not just around barefoot) we start to get serious problems. I'm a barefoot hiker, every day-er, and moving in to incorporating into running. I have Vivos, Xeros and (you may not have heard of these) - wildsole sandals - based and made in the UK. New company and they are seriously on it with their sandals. I follow you Chase, and have subscribed to your Elements course, I get a lot out of your incorporating breathwork, movement, strength, flexibility, gear etc., and your phys training background... So it's great to hear the conversation with Steven who seriously knows his stuff around physiology, neurology / proprioception, etc., and puts the real misinformation culprits in the spotlight. Really got a lot out of this from both of you.
for the stats. very interesting conversation. would have been nice to hear a little more from Chase without interruption!
Great conversation, respect to you guys for this. It is increasingly rare to see that people can discuss with class certain things on which they have a different opinion.
Yes, Part 2 would be good...let Chase talk!
I have been using Vibram shoe for roughly a month. All the pain I still have is from football, volleyball and the old mushy shoe. The pain is reducing slowly and it lasts only during the beginning of my sections, after 10 minutes running all is gone. I have finished a race 2 weeks ago with a 5 fingers shoe and my time was 4:00min/km in a 12km distance race.
During this month I have tried to use the shoe whenever I can and I still haven't gotten any injuries because of the shoe.
Before this shoe, I tried barefoot running but the gravel was too much for me. I like trail running.
I wonder what Steve would think of Anvil Rose thought of then xero brand as a whole. Barefoot shoes may be good. But a poorly/cheaply constructed shoe seems seems like a bad investment. I say this as a person who as also noticed the lack of quality within every xero shoe I have... At least compared to brands like vivo or even lems! BEARFOOT shoes has a few models that I think absolutely blow xero out of the water.
I've been walking in zero drop wide toe box for over 10 years, but not barefoot (Altra's have too much cushioning for that). All my foot problems went away and my forefoot is definitely a totally different shape now. And I never even wore high heels much. Now I'm just trying to figure out if minimal cushion is good for hiking boots... It's too bad nobody makes zero drop wide toe box with some cushioning but not excessive amounts so we could ease in.
You exercised lots of patience Chase !
Very enlightening. We need more folk having balanced open sensible discussions like this in ALL arenas. The world would I think be a better place if so. Thanks!
I liked the introduction to rather have a conversation than firing off in a reaction Video. But what followed was more like a monologue than a dialogue with the clear intent to put the brand into a better light and not talking about the actual message chase told in the original video.
Yea this dude is super annoying
Yup, the actual original message was dismissed as a "straw man argument" and that's it 🙄
Chase, you’re an excellent listener and this allowed the message to come through. Great overview on barefoot shoes in general and on the I industry. I appreciate the CEO’s willingness to speak openly.
so what was your point in this video Chase? seemed that you had no points that Steven conceded on
It was basically:
Chase: "I like your shoes but you don't have to be so cocky and sure of yourself, some people do have negative experiences and those experiences are legitimate"
Steve: "lol that's cuz those people are stupid and I am very smart and talented"
so basically nothing of substance then@@Jhollowed25
Great conversation! I respect you for having it! I liked your video about the industry and now subscribed after watching this! I wear Xero shoes and love them but am also cautious about ‘buying in’ completely to anything.
Steven just keeps talking. He has a lot of knowledge, however, it may benefit him to actually listen. I think that Chase makes very important points about the need for strengthening and readying your feet for such a change. I don’t think Stephen disagrees, but he rudely dominated the conversation with facts presented in a way that were somewhat condescending and in an “I’m right and you’re wrong” manner.
My takeaway is to watch Chase’s videos about strengthening and prepping my feet, and then look for barefoot shoes from any retailer other than Xero.
Hi, Steven has a massive amount of passion for his shoes. That probably comes across as OTT. Regards Glenn
Ok so, 37:45 … I have some thoughts. This happens in every industry. The company’s may not be saying that directly, but may times there is a passive implication in ALL fitness related things that “_____
Hey Chase,
Good episode, and another leap forward in the search for truth. Firstly, I love Steven's passion for ultimately, what I feel is truthful; and I do LOVE my xero shoes, they seem to work well with my foot shape. But!, although Xero shoes and vivo may be some of the largest sellers and industry leaders, they are not the entire industry, which ultimately includes smaller manufacturers, "knock offs", sorta minimalist styles, retailers and influencers. Arguing the semantics of wordings, whilst important in a more larger conversation unfortunately for him, missed the point. As a consumer the information on transitioning to a "barefoot" shoe, isn't as simple, it requires, for most anyway, a learning (or unlearning, re-learning) curve to get to the joy. To your point, without this direction, the journey is wrought with pain, injury and discomfort. "Lies"?...semantics that served a purpose, hype?...I believe there is much benefit and passion and a need for change in the shoe industry in general and it is doubtful there is a "one shoe serves all solution" but discussions like this and the mechanics of movement certainly are a "step" in the right direction. Thanks for "dropping this vid"
Ps...while not Lies, it's not the whole picture either
www.xeroshoes.eu/wistia-hp-playlist-fragment/
Thank you! Xero is trying to unhelpfuly narrow the idea of 'industry' and 'lies'. The big three aren't the whole industry and lies in this case don't have to be explicit untruths, it's more imply or overstating a case and not taking steps to address misinformation. Xero might be trying to correct misinformation but the industry and large does not seem to be.
One of the ads I got during this video was a Xero ad with Steven in the same exact spot 😂
rumor has it he never leaves that shoe cave.
Loved the conversation, guys. It was an important lesson in nuance, and a wonderfully educational piece! WAY too few likes for the amount of views this has gotten.
Also, I own two pairs of Xeroshoes which I wear at work and can say that my posture, calf, foot, and ankle strength has definitely improved. I feel much more planted and powerful when I need to run. I average 25-30,000 steps a day and I'm mostly walking on thin carpet and resilient flooring. I'm definitely keeping tabs on how my feet feel, but so far, no issues at all. Love them!
xero shoes are actually way too narrow and have a rounded toebox that pushes your big toe inwards. They cut corners during manufacturing and their stuff is overpriced. And let's not get into the predatory marketing methods they use, like the 5000 mile warranty not being an actual warranty and them paying affiliates for fake reviews and gaslighting you when you complain.
I was looking into Xero shoes exactly because of them being narrow, which would fit my narrow feet better, but I read that 5000 miles warranty and thought it was so absurd....and now watching this CEO talk, I kind of get how that came to be 💀
I was almost willing to buy Xero, not anymore
I love it. No true Scotsman
When you’re making stuff up it’s so hard to be right
Learning so much from this conversation. Thank you. Learning currently and researching before I buy a pair of more minimal shoes at 56. My feet are being a challenge and I am finding your exercises and knowledge have been so helpful. I am on my feet running around on a hard surface in a building for over 8 years ; it’s taking a toll! ❤
Thank you for sharing. I was very close to try Xero and now I'm pretty confident I'll go somewhere else for a new barefoot.
Xero are the best. Especially for people with a longer second and third toe compared to the big toe. I don’t wear anything else and have tried many
Great conversation! Thank you both. Would Steve consider the Altra Lone Peaks as beneficial as the Xero shoes? I wear the Xero shoes but hike/backpack in the Lone Peaks.
This is not much of a conversation, as Steven (Xero shoes) said he wanted to have. He talks almost the entire time without offering Chase much opportunity to speak, and when Chase does try to input, Steven cuts him off after about 30 seconds. Perhaps there are good points, but I'm quite frustrated and dissapointed by Steven right now, watching him blatantly dominate the "conversation", which sadly gets in the way of trusting him and what he has to say.
100% agree
Stephen had a lot to say and he is clearly well informed and it was worth while listening to him. And given how much he and Chase agreed on, I am not sure Chase missed on on so many opportunities to rebut the things Stephen was saying..
That's because! Chase didn't have any to say! He had no exclamation for anything he said! Because like Steven said! He will just ask for proof and that other person won't have any! Chase didn't have any proof to back up anything he said! Simple as that! Hence why he said nothing!
@@amblincork He can be super knowledgeable and have a lot to teach and still dominate a conversation. And I mean, we all do mistakes here and there, so it doesn't mean he is not a cool guy, but I do agree that he was dominating that conversation and there was at least a moment were Chase had to stop Steven from stopping him xd.
Thank you two for coming together and sharing!
I’ve been in Xero’s for maybe 5 or 6 years now. Transitioned very gradually, and had Xero problems. 😂
Now I have ARCHES!
I’ve always had flat feet until making the switch.
Did you do specific exercises too, or was just wearing the barefoot shoes enough to build an arch?
@@emmanarotzky6565
I wore them for running, but started at half an hour, walking for 5 minutes, running for 30 seconds, and gradually increased the running times. I can now run 7-10 miles in xeros, and never had any foot problems.
The other thing I did was wear Chacos after running. So I stressed my feet for the exercise, then put them in an orthodic shaped footbed to recover. Eventually I didn't need the Chacos afterwards, between 6 months to maybe a year?
Now I'm in barefoot shoes unless I'm doing a sport that requires specialized footwear, like motorcycling or snowboarding.
Transitioning gradually means the amount of time spent barefoot, take it easy and be patient.
When I got my first pair I couldn't even wear them for a full day, just walking around. Calf muscles get tired REAL fast!
But now I have arches, stronger feet and legs, and I can articulate my toes 🙂
Just doing what comes naturally walking around without thick soles 👍
Very nice of Steve as a CEO to have an open thorough dialogue & discussion to clarify most of the myths & questions about the barefoot shoe industry.
What's the name of the model of the shoe that Steven has grabbed a few times during the video?
@ChaseMountains Good content, although I found it a bit difficult to watch to the end (yet I did). All I will say regarding that is your patience, grace, and listening skills are admirable! ;-)
Spot on! "All I will say regarding that is your patience, grace, and listening skills are admirable! ;-)" The 'conversation' was definitely weighed to 1 side as far as the discussion. It was hard to watch to the end, but I did as well!
Before even watching, I respect this man for reaching out to have a conversation, and both men for agreeing to do this. Excellent! We all need to have more conversations especially about things we disagree on.
It makes sense why this guy was able to build such a strong brand. Clearly a smart business leader who saw the opportunity to go against the grain
As an owner of 16 pairs of Xero shoes, have several friends change to zeros for their workout and daily use to zeros, this was an awesome video. Bravo. Steven is such an entrepreneur and has such enthusiasm. Chase, awesome job holding on and staying with it.
I have been wearing barefoot shoes since the Five Fingers first came out. I remember my first run with them and how free I felt. I then spent the next 3 weeks walking down stairs backwards as my calves took a hammering!😂. I think Case’s final point about manufacturers being more open about these are but a part solution to freer movement is a good one. Since I made the change I no longer get shin splints, hip pain and shoulder pain. But I do not put this solely down to the shoes. Keep the content coming and I really enjoyed this video.
35:14 the amount of times he interrupted you and didn't let you make any point. I hope the rest of the interview goes better cause I was really getting tired of it.
I got plantar issues from running "correctly" in barefoot shoes some years back (doing some very conservative distances and phasing the practice in gradually, btw). Roughly zero percent of serious competitive professional distance runners wear minimal shoes, and this technology has been out for a number of years now. I still wear minimal shoes, but only for walking short distances and doing balance challenges. I'm personally sticking with the Killian Jornets, Courtney Dauwalters, and Eliud Kipchoges of the world on this one. You can spend an hour saying "and we can get to this later" about these issues all you want, but the most well funded pro runners are all in highly padded footwear. I just watched some recent footage on the Kenyan elite team, and there are not exceptions to this. They all have more padded shoes than the average dude running around the park does. Kipchoge also "overpronates". Don't listen to the talk machine, listen to your body and the people who do it for a living.
It was a really good conversation, watched it all at 1.5x speed, haha! Steven seems really knowledgeable, I just started following his YT channel too.
My main personal issue with switching to barefoot shoes, as a hiker, is that there can't seem to be any way their grip could compare to your classic Vibram Megagrip / Salomon Contagrip outsoles. And because I've developed acrophobia during some years when I didn't have the time to go hiking, I really start to panic on steeper slopes or narrower paths as soon as I feel the grip is anything less than extremely good (Vibram or Contagrip level).
On the other hand, my knees definitely are starting to hurt and produce weird noises ever since I started using these traditional hiking boots. Back in the day I used to go up the mountains in All Stars Converse shoes (I know, really bad idea), which resemble a barefoot shoe in many ways - minimalist sole, zero drop etc. And I do feel I used to be a lot less of a heel striker back then than I am now, after some years of hiking in Salomon and Salewa and stuff like this.
Lately I did go for the Merrell Long Sky 2 (based on one of your videos btw!) and I do enjoy them a lot, the Vibram Megragrip sole is fantastic (although I guess it doesn't do any brain stimulation like a barefoot sole would do) but their upper seems to wear out really fast, which was to be expected when compared to something like a Salewa leather boot. So I would say I am still lacking an ideal shoe to do hiking in, which would probably mean wide fit (although I don't have too wide feet, fortunately, and I can put my fingers amongst my toes without any pain), zero drop, not too heavy but still durable and with an outsole that is still flexible and receives a bit of ground information, but not so much that it has to sacrifice the grip on more technical or steep terrain.
I'm confused, all studies show that barefoot users have much more serious injuries compared to standard shoes. it makes sense too, they had to walk back every single health claim they previously stated.
Really good talk, and respect to Steven, I see Xero in a very positive way knowing someone like him is behind the brand, so knowledgable, personable and open
is there a wide shoe that's good for asphalt and natural surfaces?