Nike Ultrafly v. The North Face Vectiv Pro 2 v. Adidas Terrex Agravic Speed Ultra v. Hoka Tecton X 3

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  • Опубліковано 22 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 177

  • @FrancoisMcinnes
    @FrancoisMcinnes 2 місяці тому +5

    Too much talking. Get to the point. Overlay. Idk.

    • @runsingletrack
      @runsingletrack 2 місяці тому +17

      We should do an entire episode that's just a moment of silence..trail gear meditation

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +25

      Bro the channel is called Conversational Pace, not Race Pace 😂😂

    • @johnwardlaw6204
      @johnwardlaw6204 2 місяці тому +1

      @@ConversationalPaceit can be Race Pace if you listen at 2X speed

  • @christopherorman5769
    @christopherorman5769 2 місяці тому +25

    I have now reached almost 100 miles in my Tecton X 3s. I am not kidding when I say they are the best trail shoe I have ever run in. They are a swiss army knife, and I can only think of a few, very niche situations, where I would want to use the Kjerag or maybe some other super low stack technical shoe; even then, I would miss using the Tecton x 3s. I use other shoes on shorter/lighter runs, and almost always finish and say, "I would have had way more fun in my Tecton X 3s." Yes, there is a learning curve. Yes, you have to be mechanically sound in your running technique or the shoe will run away from you. Yes, you need to wear the right socks -- thicker Injinis do the trick for me (super thin socks didn't work for me). But, damn are they a fun, comfortable, and enjoyable shoe when you figure them out. I feel like they make me a better runner -- which might be utter bulls$%t, but there it is. If the Tecton X 3 is any indication of where the super shoe is heading, I am hyped for what is to come in the next few years. Side note, but look at all of last weeks UTMB races and the results. The Tecton x 3 reached the podium quite a bit (as did the ASU). Heck, the winner of UTMB 100 helped design the Tecton x 3.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +6

      I'm all for the shoes that bring smiles for miles! I do wish they would release a few more of those 2.5s though, as those were disguised and on the feet of quite a few Hoka athletes, which has me even more intrigued about them

    • @christopherorman5769
      @christopherorman5769 2 місяці тому +1

      @@ConversationalPace i agree. The 2.5 has a much different rocker and a different gaiter...I would love to run in it.

    • @YouTubedarek
      @YouTubedarek 2 місяці тому +1

      @@ConversationalPacemakes me wonder if we’ve entered a new era where the public releases will be the previous sponsored athletes’ gen.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      @@christopherorman5769 Oh that's interesting, I didn't know that the gaiter was different too

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      @@UA-camdarek I bet like in the road racing world, we'll see the typical 1 year delay from what are on the pros feet to what the mass market will get

  • @eric-running-to-chamonix
    @eric-running-to-chamonix 2 місяці тому +4

    I have three of these so fun to hear your impressions and comparisons.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      Thanks for watching! Do you have favorites, or do have different use cases for each of them?

    • @eric-running-to-chamonix
      @eric-running-to-chamonix 2 місяці тому +2

      @@ConversationalPaceThe Speed Ultra is still the only one that can claim to be a super shoe for the trails. The others have (pricey) features not found in other shoes, but that doesn’t make them “super” in the way we understand the term from road racing.

  • @TheMudLowery
    @TheMudLowery 2 місяці тому +1

    This was awesome. Just got the tecton x3 and this made me even more excited about them.

  • @nuffersgear7315
    @nuffersgear7315 2 місяці тому +7

    Norda just announced their super shoe at UTMB, and it's LIGHT!

    • @christopherorman5769
      @christopherorman5769 2 місяці тому

      @@nuffersgear7315 not a super shoe. It is basically the Kjerag...at best. Norda is trying though.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +2

      So excited for the 005! the weight and new materials make that shoe so intriguing

    • @christopherorman5769
      @christopherorman5769 2 місяці тому +1

      @@ConversationalPace but it's a Norda. I just cannot get over my awful experiences with the 001...though I bet it is great for a heel striker.

    • @ADyess086
      @ADyess086 2 місяці тому

      @@christopherorman5769 i absolutely loved the 001

    • @runsingletrack
      @runsingletrack 2 місяці тому +1

      S'goooooooooo!!!!!!

  • @WarriorGurl23
    @WarriorGurl23 2 місяці тому +3

    lol I love this video. I was trying to count how many times y’all said Hoka tecton x3 😂 Got me interested now!

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      What is is in the marketing world? You have to hear the name on 8 separate occasions for it to get it to stick? 🤣

  • @NotStockPhoto
    @NotStockPhoto 2 місяці тому

    Binge watching the channel now….love it. I’m in the market for new trail shoes and perfect timing

  • @berry5954
    @berry5954 2 місяці тому +3

    Trail Frankensteinshoe:
    Adidas Pro 3.
    I have glued thetongue of the Asics Novablast under the Adidas tongue
    Drilled some holes in the bottom to stand straight and stop ankle roll.
    Changed the lacing to have a solid lock
    Changed the insole, replaced with the insole of the Novalblast TR (stops sliding around(
    Will glue on silicon 3M bumpon dots on the upper mesh to create a toe bumper and protection for the top of the toes (big pebbles and small rocks hitting the upper foot hurts like a..)
    Open: a tad more tractionin front of the toes.
    I rotate my shoes every day, never run the same shoes 2 days in a row.
    I live at the base of the Alps, solid up and down, nothing flat and I have been running these shoes every single day last week..
    they are awesome, the speed ultra did sole is absolute shait compared.
    The shoe is so fast on the trails it is nuts.
    X 3, is finally arriving, needed to import them from Spain.. Very curious

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      The ultimate real life frankenshoe!!!

    • @KevinTaddonio
      @KevinTaddonio 2 місяці тому

      What kind of glue did you use for the tongue and for the dots?

    • @berry5954
      @berry5954 2 місяці тому

      @@KevinTaddonio an always flexible glue for styrofoam etc. But Shoegoo should work as well I'd guess

    • @berry5954
      @berry5954 Місяць тому

      @@KevinTaddonio Shoegoo

  • @brianogrady9883
    @brianogrady9883 2 місяці тому +1

    I feel like the ankle strength I had to build up in breaking in the Terrex Ultras made the Tecton 3 feel really stable when I took them out for runs here in the steep and rooty stuff around Chamonix. So far so awesome.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      Hah maybe that was the case for me too and had I worn the TX3 first, I wouldn't have thought it was as stable as it is

  • @tomharvey-run
    @tomharvey-run 2 місяці тому +2

    That was a fun video. Will try and resist buying more shoes as currently can’t wear them out fast enough.

  • @madsfuglsangryborg1101
    @madsfuglsangryborg1101 2 місяці тому +7

    Guys you are missing the new MetaFuji trail. It’s my favourite trail shoe ever. Event though it’s high stack it doesn’t feel unstable. Give it a go!

    • @ericperramond3463
      @ericperramond3463 2 місяці тому +3

      agree on this; while i love the X3, it did 'rawdog' my back heels (both) over the course of 60k, it could be a "between sizes" issue but I can't imagine having enough toe space if I went down a 1/2 size. The Metafuji feels like a normal road shoe but has some great foam and was shockingly stable on a long'ish effort over semi-technical trail. I was shocked how good it was.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +6

      We mentioned later on in the video that we were missing the new MetaFuji Trail. Haven't been able to secure review units yet. Definitely working on it and will do a full review as well as comparisons if we feel it deserves to be in this conversation (which it sounds like it absolutely does) 👍

    • @palmyarmyswim
      @palmyarmyswim 2 місяці тому

      How is it dealing with rocks and tree roots? I have a night race and am a little worried re the stack height.

    • @nikosbakas957
      @nikosbakas957 2 місяці тому

      @@madsfuglsangryborg1101 just adding my request on a metafuji trail review! Looks interesting and wonder how it fits among the competition. A bit pricey though.

  • @TrailrunnerTroy
    @TrailrunnerTroy 2 місяці тому

    Appreciate this format. Please consider doing more multi brand comparisons! Testing the MegaFuji, which may be the most stylish super shoe of all. No verdict yet except that the Tecton X 3 is just a much better option for the mountains in practically every respect. I would love to see a MegaFuji-FujiSpeed 3 hybrid with less cushioning in the heel plus a Finn-approved gaiter!

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      We did really enjoy this format as well, and hope to do more videos like these in the future 👍

  • @mdicello1823
    @mdicello1823 2 місяці тому +1

    Like the vid before watching cause I know what I'm getting. Was waiting for this one! I went and bought the Tecton X3 after watching the initial review and will race Grindstone in it come September. For me, it does not work in technical terrain at all, but god it feels good on smooth singletrack. Definitely got "super-shoed" on rocks, roots, etc. and was not pleasant LOL

    • @eric-running-to-chamonix
      @eric-running-to-chamonix 2 місяці тому +2

      Same here. You might try ankle taping for Grindstone. I ran it last year (Speedgoats in tropical storm) and would be afraid in the X3.

  • @Johnnyengal
    @Johnnyengal Місяць тому +1

    This was a very informative video! I would like to ask if you have tried the fujispeed 2/3? Do you have any thoughts about it?

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  Місяць тому

      Haven't tried either of those models out, but we did just get in the Metafuji Trail the other day, which should definitely be thrown into this conversation!

  • @delayewm
    @delayewm 2 місяці тому

    I'm amazed to find out that Finn is a fan of the Altra Duo. I only know one person other than myself that liked that shoe. I actual had one pair left in my closet I bought for like $40 after they were discontinued. I'm saving them for a special occasion. I never thought the Adidas would work for me, but now I'm intrigued!

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      hahaha Finn is going to take his love of the Altra Duo to the grave!!!

  • @StevenWalling
    @StevenWalling 2 місяці тому +2

    Having tried the Ultrafly, x3 and the Vectiv I can believe the stack numbers on the Vectiv. It was the least cushy option for me in a long run test and also one of the more stable. 100% agree about the fit and upper.
    The Tecton has been disappointing: it's so unstable and it's the only shoe where the Matryx upper rubbed my heels raw. Wore the Ultrafly for half of Javelina and it's fine but gets heavy over time.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      I've heard a few people mentioning the upper of the TX3 irritating heels. Perhaps they could have put a little more padding in the back, as it is only 2 pretty thin pieces of foam. You could be right about the Vectiv Pro 2 stack. I just figured it was firmer foam, but it very well could be lower to the ground too. Thanks for watching!

  • @suggg
    @suggg 2 місяці тому +1

    Superblast 2 is pretty fun so far on dry / damp rookie traction trails.... although tall, fit and bucket seat keep me on top.... shoe is light, cushioned, and fast.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      I bet that Superblast is seriously fun on mellow trails. Asics has been on such a heater these last few years with their shoes

  • @BillNanson
    @BillNanson 2 місяці тому

    Très interesting - thankyou!
    I finally got hold of a pair of the Agravic Speed Ultras for a (more) reasonable price - the new blue colourway - and they confirm for me that the height around the (outer/lateral) ankles remains problematic for Adidas trail shoes: My first pair of the Speeds, not ultras, were my normal size 44 but ran a little long. I also had to cut away a large chunk of the upper under my left ankle bone to avoid blood but the lockdown was still good with a runners' knot. My second pair of Speeds (again not ultras - they were still not available) were 43 and 1/3 size and were a better fit and I had no ankle problems with a runners' knot - but above 20km the laces bit into the top of the foot so I had re-lace without the runners' knot whilst underway... Now the new Speed Ultra, the smaller 43 and 1/3 again, runners knot - now a bloody right ankle! Shoe-upper surgery has already been necessary. So all the Agravics remain borderline problematic - and you get extra grit in the shoes. On the positives - I like how the Ultra's mid/forefoot feels on the uphill and these are the shoes with the least toe-bashing on downhill. I also find them better cushioned around the heel on stony downhills versus the non-Ultras - BUT, and it's a big but - I've gone over on my ankle twice in the first 60km with the Ultras. So far that's not happened on the non-ultras with 390 kms - the two combined. A third time will not be a coincidence!! I anyway need a day or three of enforced rest after this morning's 'roll.'
    Of your other shoes: The Nike just doesn't look like a trail shoe to me, plus I've never seen one in the wild, and the North Face is currently very expensive - but I've placed an order for the Tecton x3 - so let's see.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      I really hope Adidas fixes the upper issues in both the Speed and Speed Ultra. I also felt that the Speed was more stable than the Ultra, and I imagine that is because of the lower stack height in the Speed. Hopefully that TX3 works out for you!

  • @declanmacdougall7891
    @declanmacdougall7891 2 місяці тому

    Great video! Would love to hear your take on the new Norda 005. Looks like it could be right up there with these trail super shoes

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      Definitely going to do a full review with comparisons of the 005 as soon as we get review units for it! thumb 👍

  • @fraac
    @fraac 2 місяці тому +6

    If Vincent Bouillard of all people prefers the x2.5 to the 3, that says something

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      100%! I have heard that the 2.5 is just pretty fragile, so that could be a big contributing factor why it didn't make it to mass market. I still want to try it though 😂

  • @Warfieldrun
    @Warfieldrun 2 місяці тому

    Great video as always. How can we tell when the midsoles wear out? I have both the Speed Ultra and TNF, with a little over 200 miles on both. I feel like the Speed Ultras just got a bit firmer and TNF have started to feel a bit softer. I’m wondering if it’s the midsoles changing or just my perception of the feel changing based on where they are in my rotation. Thank you!

  • @cb4atl
    @cb4atl 2 місяці тому +5

    Dang - wish the GL: SVT would’ve been released in time to be included.

    • @christopherorman5769
      @christopherorman5769 2 місяці тому +5

      The GL:SVT use HTPU. There is no peba or super critical foam. It is basically a lower stack version of the GS:PDX as far as the materials; i.e. insole and midsole. It won't come close to the Tectom x3 in performance, imho.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      We'll definitely test them out when they're available and if it does have any qualities like these shoes, it'll definitely get mentioned in the full review 👍

    • @cb4atl
      @cb4atl 2 місяці тому

      @@christopherorman5769 not sure I agree with that but to each their own!

    • @christopherorman5769
      @christopherorman5769 2 місяці тому +3

      ​@@cb4atl I should have been more clear in my response. The GL:SVT doesn't use super critical foam in any way -- if we use Finn and Brett's definition of super shoe. One of the better things about Speedland is that they previously used a Peba insole to make up for the HTPU being rather boring. That insole is gone in the GL:SVT. I actually called Speedland to understand what they are using for the insole and they wouldn't tell me: "proprietary blend" is all they told me. When I asked how it would feel, it was "firmer" and maybe a bit more "bounce." Nevertheless, with the GL:SVT you have the same HTPU they have used in every one of their shoes with a non-PEBA insole, and then the same Carbitex plate option they have been using for the last 2+ years. In other words, it is using tech that is getting dated; I mean, HTPU is being used on mostly cheap trail shoes these days. Given the huge enormous sea that separates the GS:PDX from the Tecton x 3 (it is literally huge from a performance standpoint -- and I run in the GS:PDX regularly for shorter recovery runs), I don't see how the GL:SVT catches up.

    • @cb4atl
      @cb4atl 2 місяці тому +1

      @@christopherorman5769 I think this is all fair and thanks for responding - I would actually have to agree with you then that the SVT is not in this discussion. Its use case is just so so specific for mountain ultras with high technicality, so it makes sense that they chose HTPU over PEBA or EVA. I will say I have run about 40 miles in the Tecton X 3 and I still get really nervous going fast on technical terrain with them, they’re still tippy and not the most stable. Other than that I have to agree with you on all points!

  • @brettrunsfar
    @brettrunsfar 2 місяці тому +2

    Currently early days rotating the Speed Ultra and X3 and the Tecton just feels grab and go whereas I put more thought into feet and route with the Speed. I can’t see myself doing more than a few hours in the Speed but that may change as I adjust 🤞🏼 It’s been a while since I wore them but the Ultrafly feels lifeless in comparison to X3/Speed.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      Yeah pretty much my thoughts exactly. The TX3 just feels a lot more approachable

  • @jakeva9802
    @jakeva9802 2 місяці тому +1

    Howabou adidas soulstride ultra? I put 500 miles on the agravic 3s and loved them

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      I did run in that one and found the midsole foam to be very average feeling. Very durable for sure, but didn't quite have the exciting pop that these others in the video had

    • @jakeva9802
      @jakeva9802 2 місяці тому

      @@ConversationalPace thank you for the input.

  • @HowardWortonjb71
    @HowardWortonjb71 2 місяці тому

    This was fun. Got me thinking about Saucony and their Endorphin Edge. I loved it, then hated it and now love it again. No sign of them coming with a better version of it. It could be a contender 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿👍😸🦄

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      I heard a rumor that they Endorphin Edge 2 got canceled 😢

  • @morganflockhart942
    @morganflockhart942 2 місяці тому

    Great video guys I’ve got the Terrex and the Nike I prefer the Nike to Terrex but the Mont Blanc Carbon smashes both of them!

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      I love hearing that! What about the Mont Blanc Carbon do you like more than the Nike and Adidas?

    • @morganflockhart942
      @morganflockhart942 2 місяці тому +1

      @@ConversationalPace probably the most obvious the foot shaped toe box but I think the carbitex plate works well with the Ego max/pro midsole but mostly & sometimes overlooked in shoe reviews is it’s simply a joy to run in all smiles and disappears on your feet!

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      @@morganflockhart942 The Mont Blanc Carbon definitely does get a lot of smile mile points and points for feeling great at all paces

  • @RowOfMushyTiT
    @RowOfMushyTiT 2 місяці тому +2

    I wonder what your favourite plate design is? Short, Forked, Split, Winged, Rods?

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      haha yeah I'm curious too. I think that it will really depend on the foam type and how it's shaped as well. I think I still prefer something that's not totally rigid like a split carbon plate or the plastic rods of the terrex

    • @RowOfMushyTiT
      @RowOfMushyTiT 2 місяці тому +1

      ​@@ConversationalPace Ye, i tend to agree. I think the main issue is if the plates converge under the mid-foot leading to too much stiffness where the shoe is the narrowest.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      @@RowOfMushyTiT yeah I think that might have been the cause of the stability problems in the Saucony Endorphin Edge.

  • @airforceones25
    @airforceones25 2 місяці тому +2

    As someone who has run in 3 of these. (Nike, Adidas, Hoka) I'd easily rank them... Adidas Speed Ultra, Hoka X3 and a distant 3rd Nike (can't speak on behalf of TNF)... Adidas just are ridiculously fast. They feel tangibly different than the other 3. If I hadn't already ran in the Adidas I would have loved the Hoka X3 as it feels like shoes I generally prefer but the Speed Ultra is just perfection. I found the the Hoka to stiffer which I tend to enjoy but the Adidas somehow just blended everything perfect. I do think the Hoka has better grip and I feel more stable in the Hoka. I feel I have to be far more cautious with my foot placement in the Terrex but I dont mind because I find it so good. When it comes to the Nike I wouldn't even have it in the conversation of these other two other than the fact it has a carbon plate. I find the nike to be to soft and very unstable compared to the others. I'm a big fan of nike road shoes but their trail stuff is just pitiful to me. Only thing I can say nicely about the Nike is it's a pretty looking shoe. Sucker for white trail shoes. ha

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      I'm so glad that these companies all have very different feeling shoes and that there are isn't one that is unanimously the best!

  • @HawaiiFranke
    @HawaiiFranke 2 місяці тому +1

    Would you use any of these shoes as training shoes? Maybe not every day but every other day. I know these are very expensive shoes but if you could buy a pair with a big discount would you do it? If yes which one?

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      The Tecton X 3 would be my top choice if I had the option to get one of these for a big discount. I typically don't wear these sorts of shoes more than twice a week, as the carbon, high rebound shoes don't help me feel out the trail and my form starts to get lazy

  • @adamtyson9208
    @adamtyson9208 2 місяці тому +1

    For most of us$250 is out of our price ranges , these are Tier 1 shoes , perhaps do some Tier 2 shoes, other than that, very cool

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      I like that idea! We always do an end of the year favorites, and maybe we'll include a category for best budget race shoe

  • @kkman4053
    @kkman4053 2 місяці тому

    Would be cool to resole a supershoe like a Vaporfly with a trail outsole and see how it performs.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      Definitely a project I've wanted to pursue for a while!

  • @robking5096
    @robking5096 2 місяці тому

    Since you mentioned rocky raccoon what are the best options for that? Assuming it’s not a muddy mess

  • @theultratrailbreakdown
    @theultratrailbreakdown 2 місяці тому +2

    How big an upgrade is the X3 over the X2? Just tempted by the sale price on X2s right now. Found them for close to £100.
    Appreciate your reviews, picked up TNF altamesa 500 following your review and love them 🙌

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      Stoked you're enjoying the Altamesa! The X3 is a pretty massive upgrade with the new upper, true super foam, and more rugged outsole. The only question mark still is if it will last any longer. There's definitely a chance they last the same amount of miles, so the dollars per mile is higher, but so is the fun 😅. Hard to beat picking up the TX2 for $100 though!

  • @MrUpdated
    @MrUpdated 2 місяці тому +1

    Maybe I'm weird but I far preferred the NF Vectiv Sky over the Pro, felt far more stable and easy to run in. I had insole issues with the Pro - when they get wet the insole shifts and bunches.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      I still haven't gotten to try out the Vectiv Sky yet, but I have heard this a few times. It just seems like it's a bet less weird feeling having less stack and a less extreme rocker

    • @dieckie6190
      @dieckie6190 28 днів тому +1

      I had the same insole issues with TNF Vectiv Infinite II (I ended up super-glueing the insoles into the shoes) - and also the outsole peeled off after 2mo and ca. 200km. I lost all trust in TNF and won't buy shoes from them anymore :(

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  28 днів тому

      @@dieckie6190 dangggg 200km is far too short for something like that to be happening 😔

  • @oliruse5954
    @oliruse5954 2 місяці тому +2

    asics metafuji trail is wild

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      Can't wait to try that one out 🤞

    • @palmyarmyswim
      @palmyarmyswim 2 місяці тому

      How is it being high stacked with tree roots and rocks?

  • @mcgovski
    @mcgovski Місяць тому +1

    "its very approachable" haha had a barista in Ashland say that to me about a coffee roast....

  • @codyjung6963
    @codyjung6963 2 місяці тому

    I really feel like trail running brands were too quick to jump on the road definition of super shoes with all the super high stack and rigid plates---I just want that middle ground of Endospeed 4 or Mach X with some shallow vibram lugs: 32-36mm of nicer foam with a more flexy composite plate that adds some snap + protection. The Terrex Speed was so close, and so is Brooks Cat 3, but they're both on that more minimal end, and don't really split the difference IMO; Really hoping the Prodigio Pro next year is this. Did get a chance to try the on Catamount 4 and man, that could be the shoe with the 2-3mm of DNA flash 2 they added!

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      I totally hear you on this! I understand why these brands went the super shoe route, but I would absolutely love to see the trail version of many of these almost super trainers. Mach x and Endorphin Speed 4 are great examples! Catamount 4 is going to be exciting!

  • @Grantmi1_trailrun
    @Grantmi1_trailrun 2 місяці тому

    Thanks!

  • @Bibs123
    @Bibs123 2 місяці тому

    I watched Hella's video on the Tecton X3 and the 2.5. The 2.5 is dramatically different, less cushion and less propulsive from what I could gather, but easier to get on. Leave it to Hoka to screw up a good thing, just like they did the midsole of the last two versions of the Speedgoat.

  • @ovechkinata
    @ovechkinata 2 місяці тому +2

    Curious if you guys think that what deems running shoe as super shoe is if it has a carbon plate? I legitimately would’ve thought the Zegama 2 would’ve been chosen over the ultrafly and think by popular opinion it’s the more race ready shoe

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +3

      We were taking into account the shoes that were designed and developed with primarily racing in mind. Doesn't necessarily have to be carbon, but a plate of some sort, paired with a supercritical foam is what we've been categorizing as trail super shoes. I agree with you, there are quite a few more race scenarios where I'd go Zegama 2 over Ultrafly, but the Zegama 2 is also a year newer and I have a hunch that when Nike updates the Ultrafly, that one will leapfrog the Zegama 2

    • @ovechkinata
      @ovechkinata 2 місяці тому +1

      That’s a hot take for sure! Seeing how Nike really improves when it comes to the new versions of all their updated shoes I could very well see that happening. I was curious and meant to ask you on the TNF SVP2, do you think it’s worth choosing that over the original if you can get it on sale? Curious if you guys thought it was that great of an update since you never made a video for the V1

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      @@ovechkinata The 2 got an upper update with a slightly snugger fit and a mesh that was breathable but didn't let in quite as much debris. There are definitely a good handful of runners (TNF Pro Katie Schide included) That prefer the upper of the Vectiv Pro 1

  • @tommilam6320
    @tommilam6320 2 місяці тому

    With X3 since you don’t have as much air pushing into the heel area of the shoe due to gator sort of sealing it up, the “pressure” could be different within the shoe so water doesn’t drain as easily? I know, I’m no hydrodynamics or physics guy so could be completely speaking out of my (inset word here).

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      haha I actually love this theory! The TX3 gaiter vacuum theory is what it should probably be named. Definitely not a physicist either, but it feels plausible!

  • @joeccriscuola
    @joeccriscuola 2 місяці тому +1

    You mentioned the JFK 50, what trail shoe would you start in?

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      I've never run that section of trail and would love to scout it out before deciding. But if I were going into it blind, I would probably wear the Tecton X 3

  • @alpryor
    @alpryor Місяць тому

    Question,
    I have been in hokas for a decade (outside of marathoning) and have a technical 50k I’m targeting and deciding between a new pair of my trusty Mafate Speed 4s, or going all in on the tecton x 3.
    The course is actually 29 miles, 5,500ft gain, roughly half of it is extremely technical and can be pretty slick depending on weather, the other half you can rip on easy/moderate technicality with 3 road miles mixed in.
    I guess my question is, would I be more prone to roll my ankle and blow my race sprinting downhill in the tecton x 3?
    I’m sure they are way faster, but need to be confident in my footing.
    Thanks in advance!

  • @kevinhub57
    @kevinhub57 2 місяці тому

    I think something that would be interesting is to define what exactly constitutes a super TRAIL shoe now, and a full list of what CP considers in that list. Foams, propulsive plates, stack, weight... marketing, feel/experience? Depending on the criteria you could include any Speedland with the plate installed, Brooks Catamount 3 or Agil (supercritical foam, both with the Skyvault plate which isn't carbon but I don't believe the Adidas Energy Rods are either?), and Asics FujiSpeed 3 (foam and carbon). Then would the Craft CTM Ultra Carbon count cause carbon, but no superfoam? And the Scott shoe with Carbitex? What about Prodigio Pro with no plate but has the foam. Dynafit Alpine DNA 2 with mystery foam and peba plate? Now that this category is seemingly coalescing, it is interesting to see what shoes count and which don't.

  • @romeoiipunzalan1079
    @romeoiipunzalan1079 2 місяці тому +2

    Champex foam... yeah, sounds good ahh...

  • @palmyarmyswim
    @palmyarmyswim 2 місяці тому

    So the North face saves your legs more than the others at all paces?

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      The way the plate and shape of the shoe worked with our feet, it sure felt that way. It's a very subjective experience though and we don't have any data to back that up, but at the very least it did feel very good to run in at all paces

  • @bunterkessel
    @bunterkessel 2 місяці тому +2

    Isn't the S/LAB Ultra François d’Haene considered a trail super shoe?

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +2

      I think it would be considered a trail super shoe by most, although I have heard from multiple that the foam just doesn't deliver the energy return as the shoes in our video

    • @TrailrunnerTroy
      @TrailrunnerTroy 2 місяці тому +1

      @@ConversationalPaceraced a 100-miler in that shoe last December (Loup Garou or “Cajun Werewolf” 100 in Louisiana’s Cajun Country, lots of mud and water and about 9,000’ of total vertical with endless tree roots, spiders and more spiders). The d’Haene was flawless except except for some of the most extreme mud. Never even adjusted the shoes in 100 miles. But it is a very firm ride that only worked for me because of the very soft ground.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      @@TrailrunnerTroy Yeah the firm ride just isn't super appealing to me, but Salomon has that s/lab Ultra Glide right around the corner, which apparently has a slab of PEBA in it!

  • @mefistobartek
    @mefistobartek 2 місяці тому +1

    Heh guys, what about asics shoes? Have you ever tried fujispeed 2 or 3? I think you can call them supershoes and the’re awesome!

    • @NathanPhua
      @NathanPhua 2 місяці тому +1

      Their top of the line trail supershoe is MetaFuji now

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      Would love to review more Asics trail shoes! Their shoes have just been a bit difficult to acquire, but we're working on trying to review their new MetaFuji trail

  • @itsahardmuttlife9263
    @itsahardmuttlife9263 2 місяці тому +1

    Hey guys, of all the shoes mentioned, which shoes does the plate sit closer to the ground?

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      The Nike Ultrafly plate is closest to the ground 👍

    • @itsahardmuttlife9263
      @itsahardmuttlife9263 2 місяці тому +1

      @@ConversationalPace Thanks! Where do the plates sit in the other shoes? Last question. 😁

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      @@itsahardmuttlife9263 The Vectiv Pro 2 plate is right under the insole close to the foot, and the Adidas and Hoka are both closer to the middle of the shoe

    • @itsahardmuttlife9263
      @itsahardmuttlife9263 2 місяці тому

      @@ConversationalPace Thank you!

  • @nikosbakas957
    @nikosbakas957 2 місяці тому +1

    S/lab ultra or s/lab Genesis not in scope?

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      I've just heard more average to poor reviews about the s/lab ultra to throw it in here. Now the new s/lab ultra glide that just got announced at UTMB has me interested! Genesis doesn't have supercritical foam or any sort of propulsive plates, so we left that one out as well. It's a very comfortable shoe and feels great in the mountains, but we picked these 4 for their similar tech features 👍

    • @nikosbakas957
      @nikosbakas957 2 місяці тому

      @@ConversationalPace thanks guys!

  • @timpfluger
    @timpfluger 2 місяці тому

    Hey guys, was listening to your UTMB recap, and you spent a short bit of time talking about the shoes on some of the elites feet. I actually wondered this while I was watching...why do you think many of the Hoka athletes were wearing the Tecton 2.5s over the Tecton 3? Did you guys ever get to try those limited 2.5s? Just curious. Thanks guys!

    • @timpfluger
      @timpfluger 2 місяці тому +1

      Saw you kinda commented on this actually below. I think I remember either Jim or someone else mention the X3 is more of a shoe for the masses, but am intrigued about the 2.5.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      @@timpfluger Yeah the 2.5 is a lighter and even more responsive version of the 3. The reason it's not being sold is that it's pretty fragile, so the 3 is basically the consumer version of the 2.5

  • @ericknowles6257
    @ericknowles6257 2 місяці тому

    Sorry, trying to understand the “supershoe” definition. Why wouldn’t the current Nnormal Kjerstag or Tomir 2.0 be qualified as a super shoe (example). Love this show, hope to chase one of you at the races one day!

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      The main reasoning for why this didn't fall into the category of what is currently being considered a trail super shoe is that they don't have a high volume stack midsole and no plate of sorts. If you were to just run flat on a track or treadmill, neither the Kjerag or Tomir would offer any propulsion or efficiency benefits in a way that these other super shoes do. Whether this current trail super shoe is the end game shape for what is the fastest shoe on the trails is (in my opinion) likely still going to change quite a bit in coming years

  • @freddievanheerden9739
    @freddievanheerden9739 Місяць тому

    @ConversationalPace Asics Metafuji trail just entered the chat...

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  Місяць тому +1

      Actively testing it right now! Recording our review at the end of next week 👍

    • @freddievanheerden9739
      @freddievanheerden9739 Місяць тому

      @@ConversationalPace Nice, looking forward to it.

  • @helenagirdlestone
    @helenagirdlestone 2 місяці тому

    Hi Guys, could you look at best shoes for the ARC of Attrition UTMB UK please. It’s a coastal course in SW England.

  • @rmsrmsrmsrms
    @rmsrmsrmsrms 2 місяці тому +1

    One look at the bottom of the VJ Lightspeed and I laughed, that wasp waist is a big no thanks. I already had major pronation issues with the VJUltra (has that model been discontinued?). The old S-Lab Sense7 had a similar profile and was good for ~10miles maybe -- $200 for a fore-foot-only very short distance racer, naw dog. A comparison vid on ~marathon-length-worthy shoes could be fun: maybe vectiv sky, terrex speed trail, possibly matryx longsky2, slab genesis?

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      We've got the lonsky 2 matryx on deck for review. The lightspeed is definitely not for those who need a wider stance under the arch as it's fit is almost identical to the s-lab sense and pulsar series

    • @rmsrmsrmsrms
      @rmsrmsrmsrms 2 місяці тому +1

      @@ConversationalPace You have the LS2 already i guess. I bought true-to-size since i didn't know, but this shoe runs wwwaaayyyy long: I'd order 1/2size down or even consider a full size down. Still very runnable at TTS because of the stellar midfoot hold; not a long distance shoe, but great fun on techy trails, and I find it really strengthens my feet with its flexibility while giving excellent grip and protection.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      @@rmsrmsrmsrms Yeah I've got my regular size, which is a 10, and I agree, it's about a half size long on me. I'm still able to run in it, but if I were really relying on it in technical terrain, a 9.5 would be much more confidence inspiring

  • @TRWperformance
    @TRWperformance 2 місяці тому +1

    Hoka Mafate are amazing

  • @timfinocchio3014
    @timfinocchio3014 2 місяці тому

    Being fully transparent here I have 75 miles on the Hoka Tecton X 3 and they have already delaminated above the carbon wings. It is a design flaw without a doubt. The X 2.5 does not have the wing. I do not see this shoe being durable. I have pictures if you want them.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      yes, would love to see the pictures. Send them to brett@conversationalpace.run Thanks!

  • @timfinocchio3014
    @timfinocchio3014 2 місяці тому

    I can send you guys pictures of Hoka Tecton X 3s that have already fallen apart over the carbon wings. 150 miles on them.

  • @ianbritton7534
    @ianbritton7534 2 місяці тому +1

    What about the Salomon SLab Ultra. That has plates and is FD’s shoe.

  • @harrygoodenough
    @harrygoodenough 2 місяці тому +4

    ASICS metafuji

    • @christopherorman5769
      @christopherorman5769 2 місяці тому

      Yes. I want a review of the Metafuji badly. It checks a lot of boxes.

    • @peterm5877
      @peterm5877 2 місяці тому +1

      ​@@christopherorman5769 x 2. This seems to be the truest supershoe. Seems to be speedsky with some lugs? I think the guy who ran 3rd in occ ran with the Fuji 3. Didn't spot any meta Fuji at ccc or UTMB but might be wrong.

    • @Not_So_Common_Sense
      @Not_So_Common_Sense 2 місяці тому +2

      @@peterm5877 2024 UTMB 6th place finisher Andreu Simon Aymerich (Asics's top athlete) was wearing the Metafuji the whole race

    • @peterm5877
      @peterm5877 2 місяці тому +2

      @@Not_So_Common_Sense ah ha. Thank you. He didn't get much airtime and I missed him finish. Good to know he didn't do an ankle on the last descent.

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      Definitely working on getting the MetaFuji in for review ASAP. I agree, it seems to check all the boxes!

  • @berthein5476
    @berthein5476 2 місяці тому +3

    I must say, while i like the tecton x3, its not yet the magnum opus. Maybe the 2.5 was, but this the tec3 is an "almost there".
    My biggest issues are that Due to the lack of a full plate, you sink in way to much into both peba layers and have no rebound agent. Meaning sure its 40mm but it feels more like 20mm. It feels like the rebel v4 rather than a tecton x2. You have way more ground feel - too much honestly - and the 2 plates dont really help propel you forward.
    I really want to know if the 2.5 with its different midsole setup and 44mm works better.
    Its also the first shoe that i felt fast in but was running super slow.
    The vectiv pro 2 is a great shoe. Only thing you have to get used to is that high arch geometry of the midsole xD but its such a great shoe for cruising

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      Haha see, I felt the opposite way about the Peba and plate combo of the TX3. I'm also someone who has loved the Rebel series from NB 🤣
      Definitely would love to try out the 2.5 to see how it compares

    • @berthein5476
      @berthein5476 2 місяці тому +1

      @@ConversationalPace maybe 20 miles wasnt enough for the TX3 to go ham haha. Though the more i think about it, the only think i would change is trying to make the lower foam layer slightly more denser, to get that metarocker going again. Hope Hoka will do a tec2.5 rerun since all their athletes seem to be sticking with those over the x3.
      Will pick it back up next year, when its on sale, mostly for the completionist in me haha. for now i bought 3 more pairs of the TX2 AND THE FINAL SCOOBA DIVA PINK TX1 in my size haha. most bizzare moment seeing that one pop up in my local store:D

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому

      @@berthein5476 A denser lower layer to make for more rocker feel is an idea I could get behind! You've got quite the Tecton collection going!

  • @mtnrnnr107
    @mtnrnnr107 2 місяці тому +1

    Only one missing that I’d be so curious about your guys’ thoughts on are the Mont Blanc Carbons

    • @ConversationalPace
      @ConversationalPace  2 місяці тому +1

      We did a full review on the Mont Blanc Carbon. TLDR: Very comfortable underfoot, but not very super feeling, and the heel cup is still a bit iffy

    • @mtnrnnr107
      @mtnrnnr107 2 місяці тому

      @@ConversationalPace totally agree. Funny, from Altra the Timp 5 feels way faster. Great review btw!

  • @bacon2ator
    @bacon2ator 2 місяці тому

    Crocs erasure

  • @NateCrail
    @NateCrail 2 місяці тому +1

    first