The Dancing Plague: When Medieval Peasants Danced Themselves To Death | After Dark
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- Опубліковано 11 тра 2024
- When people think of Medieval diseases, hysterical dancing is not usually what first comes to mind. Yet in 14th and 15th century Germany, dozens of ordinary people claimed to be infected by the ‘dancing plague’. What was this mysterious phenomenon? What caused it? And was it even a real disease?
Strap in as Dr. Anthony Delaney and Dr. Maddy Pelling speak to Dr. Eleanor Janega, co-host of Gone Medieval, to discover why these people just couldn’t stop dancing.
00:00 Introduction
2:10 What was a Medieval Dancing Plague?
3:26 The St Johns Dancing Plague
12:18 The St Vitus Dancing Plague
19:47 Dancing Plagues as Medieval Therapy
21:13 How did Medieval Doctors Treat Dancing Plague?
28:30 Who Did Dancing Plagues Mainly Affect?
33:46 What Caused Dancing Plague?
37:31 Outro
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Am I the only person that could listen to Dr. Eleanor all day long? 😃👌🏾
No! You're _certainly_ not alone 😀
Definitely not the only one.
Nooooope
Guilty
I have the biggest crush on her ❤❤❤
One of the best history jokes of all time is that the moral of the pied piper isn't 'don't trust strangers', it's 'always pay freelancers'.
“The Tarantella” is still danced at Italian weddings, at least here in New England among Italian Americans. My understanding is that this traces back to the dancing plagues
It's an traditional dance that's still done .But it lost it's gruesome origins.
The tarantella at the Carnival in Venice is a source of many legends . , With hundreds of people at the end of the festival. all dancing the tarantella in costume .The legend goes, that among the many people who were(still are ) dressed like the grim reaper, there's one 'real grim reaper '.And with every Venetian Tarantella ,the dance went on until someone died, and the grim reaper had it's reward.
But anyway, I didn't know American Italians still follow this tradition .
Anyone who's been under inordinate amounts of stress over a very long period of time can relate.
Omg the constant pacing and inconsolable tangents
This reminds me of a story I read about a group of medeival German kids who skipped church to dance around a maypole and couldn't stop until they ultimately vanished in front of a horrified crowd of adults.
Greetings from Aachen! I've lived here for a few years now and writing Urban Fantasy/Regional History/Regional Tales novels for a hobby I had taken a good dive into local history but not heard about the St John's yet. Now I'm quite hyped to go find more info and write something... THANK YOU!
The Italian dance is called the "tarantella" which derives from "tarantula" that was given that name for the abundancy of the said arachnids near Taranto, Sicily.
Except that the tarantulas venom is not terribly toxic. They're hairy and scary , sure but . . .
@@murrayscott9546 that part is obviously bogus lol
June brings out the ticks. Potential for an infection of sorts come that time of year. Also covers the people most associated because they would have been daily exposed to potential tick bites.
I only tried acid once. I walked around non stop for 12 hours and had to just move. Another potential influence?
But don't those infections take a few months to really take on form in the brain?
@@phoebeel not necessarily. Things like inability to digest meats begin rather quickly. There’s also the potential of an unknown that no longer exists
I was born and raised in Aachen, and this is the first time I've heard of this.
EDIT Big ups Dr. Eleanor, your pronounciation of my hometown was very good!
Same here, I lived in Utrecht and was never taught about this happening in some 🇳🇱Dutch cities during the many years I had History classes.✌🏻
Disordered nerves ? In distress ? Cumulative ergot poisoning from moldy rye ? Food handling practice was very different back when,and a wet harvest season could yield some very unpleasant consequences.
In mountainous areas of German speaking communities,lack of iodine lead to goitre being very common,and I am not certain of the consequences of that. There are paintings of women in particular.
Winter diet would be anything but balanced in terms of modern foodstuffs.
@@paulmanson253 what??
Thanks for a brilliant, eloquent chat! Very refreshing
Ever been to a Southern Pentacostal campground meeting?
Surprised there was no mention of Sydenham chorea, a syndrome of involuntary movements, which follows a Streptococcal infection. Most commonly occurs in children, girls more than boys and is self-limited. This was previously called St. Vitus Dance. Wonder if this might have played a role in the children's dancing plague that was mentioned in passing.
The symptom of the chorea might be self limiting, but as someone who practices in a country with very high rates of rheumatic heart disease, the complications particularly on the mitral valve, are lifelong and debilitating. Treatable, but unnecessarily contributing to morbidity.
I remember hearing about Ergot (famous from the derivative LSD) which could have got whole settlements "tripping". Would seem like a good suspect to me! Also, I remember back at the end of the 1980s and early 1990s, a thing in the UK called Rave, this might be linked, I think, to the St Vitus Dance phenomenon, where people would thrash about to music, often staying up for days/nights on end (courtesy of Ecstasy & other drugs) and feeling like crap afterwards, having to drag themselves back to work. (Obviously I had nothing to do with any of this scandalous behaviour). DO you think there could be any comparisons? 🤔😅🤣
Ergot got into the food by eating bread where the Rye was contaminated by a fungus which caused muscle spasms, hallucinations , vomiting and also caused the extremities to get gangrene , "eaten up by the holy fire that blackened like charcoal ". It all sounds horrible and I'd much rather attend a rave😅
In Brazil we have celebrations in June for Saint John which include jumping over campfires. Love the overlap
This is such a welcome addition to the regular videos. I was already listening to the podcasts but seeing the team interacting in video adds another layer to it.
Do you plan to do the same for your other podcasts (i.e. The Ancients, Not Just The Tudors, etc...) ?
yes i was wondering the same thing- sometimes we tend to be so eurocentric. Other cultures like Haiti, Sundance .....
One of my favorite topics in all of history!!!! This made my whole day.
Observation: none of these people, least of all the peasants, heard music in a regular way that we do now. Thus simply hearing music may have created a group desire to dance much like it does today. The physical characteristics may have simply been outlier cases that were not associated with the dancing itself.
So glad we’re not prone to mass hysteria nowadays! Kidding.
This supports Marshall McLuhan’s idea that the age of electronic mass media is turning our societies back into a Mediaeval style village on a global scale: the global village. He pointed out that not only is the electronically connected world becoming a village, but we the villagers will revert to Mediaeval behaviours- for better and for worse.
I’ve read a number descriptions of the dancing plagues, but this is the only one that begins, “First of all, they’re great.”
my first thought with the jumping over obstacles makes me feel like its fly agaric/mescaline consumption - or something similar? Just like the "flying reindeer"
I adore this podcast so much! Anthony and Maddy are a combination made for greatness. I also love the podcast’s theme song. After diligent detective work I finally found the composer, it’s called (appropriately 😂)“Land Of Rebels” by Ernica Sciandrone.
Love the team of Drs Pelling and Delaney
@@c0ronariu5 So good!
Rye mold?
I remember a documentary from many many years ago about South American tribal traditions (I don't remember the country, but the Amazon? ) where the young boys were exposed to poison from ants(?) And the cure was to dance. 🤔
Informative and thrilled watching video about dancing plague in medieval periods...what a wonderful time selection of introducing in Valentines 💝 day .thank you (history Hit )channel for sharing
This is FANTASTIC.
Dr Eleanor Janega is always entertaining.
Considering the history of the witch trials & inquisition, it's kind of refreshing that the afflicted were treated with compassionate concern & not condemned.
I guess you can't kill the whole village or more than one village
Sounds like a good rave
Why do we have more information on the 1518 dancing plague than on earlier ones? Mass media. Printing presses did not exist in the 14th century, but by the 16th century, they did.
a strange thought, I'm crap at History but....do you think the legend of the piper and its variations could have come about as a sort of reaction to the Children's Crusades ? ( if I'm gonna be shot down, please do it gently)
No, you’re not wrong! I believe some historians have speculated that the children of Hamelin were part of children’s crusade. I don’t know how much evidence there is, but it’s definitely a theory, so you’re on point with that guess
I thought the same thing, but there is some evidence that instead, the piper of Hamelin was an epidemic that killed the children (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7018287/#:~:text=A%20historical%20basis%20is%20proposed,with%20them%20in%20the%20mountains.) if you want to read the abstract. 😊
The only thing that makes me think it couldn't have just been mass hysteria is that many of the people affected by the dancing plagues were reported to have distended abdomens - that isn't something someone can just trick themselves into having.
There was probably a mix of people who were actually being impacted by some sort of pathogen or contaminant, and other people who were simply swept up in it (like modern-day hypochondriacs who often believe they're suffering from whatever diseases are in pop culture at the time). That would solve the issue of not all of the symptoms being explained by poisoning or disease, since some of the people effected likely were not actually sick at all and were just experiencing it as purely psychosomatic.
I think the argument that it occurring along trade routes means it was a social phenomenon alone is a pretty flawed one; trade routes are also the quickest and easiest way that disease and contaminated food spreads too. Likewise, the argument that because it didn't affect everyone, it couldn't have been a poison/pathogen is a bit absurd. As we've all seen recently with Covid, not everyone is impacted to the same level of severity, or by the same symptoms, when it comes to diseases (especially with novel pathogens). That argument seems to come purely from a lack of understanding of epidemiology and novel pathogens.
Personally, I believe an autoimmune condition like Sydenham's chorea was likely at play. Sydenham's chorea occurs a few weeks to months after a streptococcus infection and occurs more in girls than boys (as is the case for most autoimmune conditions). It fits a *lot* of the described symptoms of the dancing plagues, particularly the lack of any physical injuries (such as the gangrenous damage seen with ergot poisoning), the cessation of symptoms when sleeping, and the spontaneous recovery. That said, it is typically only seen in children aged 5 - 15, and rarely occurs in adults, though recurrence up to 10 years after the first episode has been recorded. It's entirely plausible that a different, likely novel, pathogen from the time period was able to cause this kind of autoimmune response in a larger range of age groups than we see today. It having an autoimmune component also would also be aligned with dancing mania being stress induced, as stress is often the cause of onset for many autoimmune diseases.
As with many historical events, it's plausible that more than one explanation is correct simultaneously, as well.
Alternatively could the dancing not cause the abdomen to become distended? Doing it all day, probably without consuming food or liquid, is going to have a deleterious effect on the body and these people were almost certainly malnourished before being struck by this 'mania'. We know that malnutrition causes the abdomen to distend and even if this was not as bad as we've seen in famine hit areas of the world recently dancing all day is going to make this protuberance increasingly uncomfortable. The same might go for the joints which could explain the bandages.
I like your interpretation more because there's a sophistication there and you've clearly put some thought into it. However I suspect that my rather prosaic one is more likely. But then I would. 🙂
We should be careful not to oversimplify things the other way, too. The participants were right in discussing social and psychological factors, however, they omitted other circumstances, such as the total upheaval of society due to famines, war and the reformation happening in Germany at the time. It is entirely possible that this strange behaviour resulted due to some or all these factors.
@@erzsebetkovacs2527 Would the upheaval of society & reformation not count as social and psychological factors?
@@kevinjohnbetts I'm not sure if dancing all day would cause distension of the abdomen. Severe malnutrition certainly can in children (Kwashiorkor), but that's typically not the case with adults. That the distension was noted as specific to the people of the dancing plagues, suggests to me that it wasn't common in the general population, since it was considered at the time to be worth making particular note of, so I'm not sure that general famine would be an explanation.
The sufferers of the dancing plagues (who didn't die) absolutely had to have been consuming fluids, at the very least, over the duration of the so-called dancing. The human body on average can only survive for about 3 days without water, and that's not accounting for doing rigorous physical activity simultaneously. This time period was likely much shorter for medieval peasants who were starting from a place of poor nutrition and limited access to clean water, too. I wouldn't be awfully surprised if the people who did die had died from dehydration.
So, my short answer is, good point, I dunno!
@@biosparkles9442 It's a historical oddity. What we know is quite fragmentary and leaves a lot for our imagination to fill in. Were these people dancing all day? What kind of dancing was it? If they were travelling to cities like Utrecht where did they stay? Did they dance all the way there _and_ all the way back? You're right about malnutrition, at least in the way I was thinking about it, but if people were consuming high fibre vegetables in large quantities due to grain and/or meat shortages that would lead to abdominal distension. However I've not read accompanying reports of excessive belching or flatulence which would surely have drawn comments. Nevertheless I'm still inclined to blame that phenomena on poor diet *if* it was as common as the documents suggest. Yet I'm sceptical about so much of the evidence that drawing any conclusions is almost impossible. It is fun to speculate though. 🙂
didn't know the did this in Utrecht the place im from greetings from 🇳🇱❤️
Autism? When she said the tight bands helped made me think of Temple Grandin. Or ergot poisoning since it's around feast days
Autism is not deadly by itself. It may be stimming I guess.
A surprising number of towns in Germany (and elsewhere?) have patron saints who are connected to the place not because they lived there or even passed through, but because someone stole their bones or other relics and brought them to that place. 😢
20:46 my favorite takeaway!
I went to a few raves like that in the early 90’s 😳😂
How interesting! Thanks so much. Love History Hit! I do wish some Academics (I would have to be in that category) would get over not having eaten at the cool table in high school...It's gonna be OK.
I’m Alsatian my ancestors were involved in this
Fladulation was a big thing, pain/pleasure for some, others for fame or religious reasons.
The dancing plagues all sound like another circus and add a bit of moshing pit.
We see in Indonesia people hype themselves up to then pierce their faces. It all sounds very similar.
Had a shit day, let loose, let out some frustration, meet new people and feel a sense belonging whilst a good mosh. Perfect
Take a drink every time someone says "interesting." 💀
Is it possible that the exorcisms helped because of power of suggestion calming their anxieties?
Really fascinating! I think I'll go dancing.
How did afflicted people sleep? Seems they would need to if the plague lasted beyond a few days, as indicated.
More content like this, please.
Magic Mushrooms particularly the blue meanys
You can dance if you want to, plague dance .
Bring your hat!
Ergot poisoning ?
Would the ghost dance movement be considered to have some elements in common with these dancing plagues?
Wooo love Eleanor!
It sounds a bit like the medieval version of psychogenic fugue, which has been my favorite psychiatric diagnosis since the day I learned about it. I guess they changed the name to Dissociative Fugue, but I like the older name better.
Danse Macabre!
In regards to the pide piper story, rats in medieval stories were also frequently a euphemism for non-christians. I wonder if this phenomenon is the source of the folk tale about the devils red dancing shoes.
I think it was referred to as Tarantella in some regions
A dancing plague. Hmmm, Disco? Also, I was humming "I'm a Dancing Fool" (by Frank Zappa) all through this one.
I wonder if ergotism could also been a part of the dancing frenzy? There are 40 some medically important chemicals found in an ergot, one of which is LSD.
The discussion is a lot off on the knowledge of ergots. They do infect rye, but wheat, barley, triticale and less often oats. The last outbreak in the 1950’s in France was in wheat. Also, the concentration of these chemicals in each strain of ergots can vary. Besides LSD, another chemical causes abortions, etc. pharmaceutical companies have paid farmers to produce infected crops with ergots as the chemicals are varied and easily extracted.
Bagpipes? Donna Summer and Abba songs running through my mind with this one about the dancing plague. Lol
Dancing Queen just took on a whole new significance
I'd be the guy with the bagpipes.. 🎶⭐👍
We had a mass hysteria event in Ireland 1985 "moving statues"
Really interesting
Oh. That explains why so many people are acting out right now….
Yep. Mass lunacy!
Is this the origin of "St John Vitus Disease" or "Dance" that used to describe spasticity?
Is that where the tarentella dance comes from?
Yes
It’s puzzled by the jokey tone of this episode. If the dancing plague was serious enough that people literally killed themselves it suggests something more than boredom or a desire to see the world! It’s pretty condescending to the past to dismiss these episodes so blithely.
Sounds like the Mardi Gras of the middle ages, where you just cant take your hum drum life anymore and just go ape s**t crazy for a cew days.🎉🎉
This sounds to me like the medieval equivalent of going out to the club...
I was thinking ergot poisoning but if they had that they wouldn't be dancing. Mass hysteria?
The early sightings of restless leg syndrome
Just like the event in Ck3
Sooo some ppl was just vibing and leaving home? Hahahahahahaha ok
German farmers grew rye that can have mould and other things from rodents, has this been examined?
Ergot. Just an LSD trip.
I thought rave parties were a modern thing
Is social media and the flicking through reels, stories and tiktoks not just a modern day version of a plague?
I guess it was one of the few ways the people could 'revolt ' within their rigid society without it being seen as political. A kind of active -passive aggressive way to free themselves from church rule /6 days working 10n hours a day, etc.
Medieval people didn't work as much on average. Spring and autumn was hard (sowing and harvest) but the rest was way easier than nowadays. Industrialisation introduced those 10-12 hour days
@@phoebeel This one of these strange ideas I've seem popping up lately. First of all, Small farmer in the European in medieval times had both animal & agriculture animal care never stops . As many farmers were also serves they had an obligation to work the land of their master besides their own lot.
Besides, agricultural is is not just about 'sowing and harvest ' and siting on your ass chilling with netfix in the winter.
constant maintenance , preparing ,etc combined with just keeping a house hold going .Ergo :. Chopping wood,fetching water, solving 101 different problems. Women dying at child birth. More then 50 % of Children dying .And if there was yet another war, off you went. Or some army passed by and you were looted.
There was Church telling you what to think and feel. When you were old (40 plus) you depended on the charity of family too keep you alive. every illness or accident could end your ability to work, etc. We can't even imagine the level of worries ,fear, suffering and constant work just to survive.
So my point is, these hysterical outburst were ways to escape this life.To let go complexity once in a while without consequences.
There’s something rather Pythonesque going on here!
Underrated comment mate...
What the heck is a "CON-ta-gion"?
It gave me a twitch every time she said it.
Cue up The B.G. 's
Moldy rye ? LSD !
Everybody do the plague dance now.
Could be prion disease symptoms. 🤗
But in fact, Puritans are just jerks...best quote ever!!
The first rave kids
I love how everyone so confused of how people could be in mass hysteria and such stupidity that something like the dancing play could happen... Yet, we live in an era where Trump made a cult for 4 years and cryptocurrency skyrocketed.
Trump populism is telling of a society under stress. He just happens to be the right influential sociopath in the right place at the right time
The same era in which DEI Hollywood committed financial seppuku and Bud Light rejected all accountability to it's unacceptably fratty customers... NO ONE is immune Jordan. This stupid mass hysteria is mass. We are all in this mass together.
4 years? They are still around and a huge threat to democracy.
❤️❤️❤️
Medieval version of big fish, little fish, cardboard box! Nchrr nchrr nchrr!
Only Germans could be cursed by a saint.
So basically they were first hippies?
I think that The Bogomils had these ideas way back in the 10th century.
I think that The Bogomils had these ideas way back in the 10th century.
Warning - people may choose to be offended by things that happened hundreds of years ago
What?
Nobody going to suggest drug use?
Shrooms...
There is Germany leaders aside Olafscholz ya.
Demon Posession seems like a plausible cause
Lol. it's likely mold
@arcticwulf5796 It's possible, in the brain that can cause all sorts of things to happen.
You were persuaded otherwise rather quickly! 👀
Sounds like an early version of MAGA
May I just say... He's got the problem.😂
St vitas, the saint of vitamins.
It sounds like it was a bunch of lazy people who didn't want to work.
So, like a rave but with meth.
What's with the thumbnail? Looks an awful lot like crappy AI.
St Vitus dance in the Netherlands
It's called the Vitus dance.