HOW GOOD IS OUTLAWS OF THUNDER JUNCTION IN cEDH? - cEDH SET REVIEW
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- Опубліковано 26 лис 2024
- Dylan and Cam discuss the cards from the new Outlaws Of Thunder Junction set that will potentially make waves in cEDH
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Quick correction you can't cast a spree card without paying at least one additional cost. i.e. final showdown cannot be cast for just one W mana and do nothing.
Came to the comments to write this hah
Yep, and this makes it kinda annoying in Bolas's Citadel decks.
Which makes me wonder how this works with Cascade/Discover/Escape
And, no matter how many modes you select, it can be stopped by a Mental Misstep 😆
@@Thelastpraetoryou can still pay additional costs after they are cast for free. It’s functionally modal kicker.
I do think it's really cool that that Aven Interrupter can act as a white counterspell. It gets around uncounterable and makes their counter be at sorcery speed...seems good.
Really looking forward to trying Interrupter in Tayam.
Same with Vraska Joins Up actually, looks really solid as well!
*Edit*
Honestly I think it's more playable as a stax piece shutting down food chain, and u cant tell me making led cost 3 exiled and 2 mana to get 1 still allows led to work? I feel like it'll be better then most blue counters and then stax out opponents underworld and food chain
@@zakcm555I mean you can get there with lotus petal instead of LED, it’s just harder, more cards needed. It does shut down bunch of things that can be cast from exile graveyard etc
Aven Interruptor does end up shutting down Breach lines. It makes LED (Or Petal) cost 2 and then also makes the Brain Freeze cost 4. It makes the loop go from being +1 mana to being -3 mana at best.
Aven Interupter if you exile a counter spell (being an instant), it will only be castable as a sorcery so will never be able to counter something while being plotted.
My b pocket had a comment
wasnt it also a direct cyclonic counter? it being an alternative casting cost -> cant cast for overload
Molten Duplication copying The One Ring doesn’t give the protection.
It’s also good in Magda, because the copy is an Artifact Dwarf.
The Goldwaker card turns your tressure into assassin's which are outlaws, which means he gives them vigilance and haste. Which means you can make all the treasures, go to combat and attack with them and then use them for mana in your post combat main phase.
The Inalla discord is actually very interested in Lively Dirge. It's 5 mana plus 1 more black to put a win on the stack with Spellseeker
1:03:05 if i understand raktos correctly you only need to evoke the creature and you will already triger the first ability without using the sack outlet
Same. I already built this deck and am hyped for it. Evoke as an ability is something I’ve been trying to abuse.
Came here to say this!
The decklist mentioned sounds a lot like what I brewed up. What’s fun is the new miner card goes infinite with phyrexian altar since rakdos commits crimes with his ability. And you can have that guy in the grave so the combo is difficult to interact with since rakdos has the indestructible ability
I'll say I think you're right on Vihaan maybe not being CEDH and maybe being more high power tier, but theres some potential there for sure.
Him making the treasures into creatures with not just haste, but also vigilance, sets up a real "have your cake and eat it too" situation with hitting people in combat and sacking them to make more treasures and/or trigger aristocrat effects (i.e. mayhem devil). Not having to dig for a sack outlet to combo here seems pretty good.
The spree mechanic also helps have a low curve for ad naus decks, maybe thats a thing idk
One thing that is good to point regarding the Haste clause on Vihaan is that treasures that entered that turn wont be able to attack, but since the makes them into assassins, they are outlaws and gain the haste, making it possible to make the infinite treasures and attack in the same turn
A really fun thing to think about with the aven interrupter is protecting your own win cons and getting to cast them for free at a later turn.
For example if you ad naus and someone's going to counter it. You can flash us in to exile it and then you get to cast it for free on a later turn
So initially I had similar feeling about Lively Dirge, but the more I think about it I believe it may be Black's version of Invasion of Ikoria. For 4B, you essential search your library or graveyard for a creature mana cost 4 or less and put it into play, upside if you get 2 creatures back. I'm going to try it out in my Gitrog deck, as it can also be a tutor for Dakmor.
K'rrik and Rowan definitely look at Lively Dirge.
Isn't it more like Beseech the Mirror?
39:53 Quick note that I believe molten duplication on one ring will not give you the ring's etb protection since you did not cast the one ring
For rakdos the muscle you don't need to use him to sacrifice the evoke cards to get the trigger, it's just whenever you sacrifice so evoke on its own will do the job
One thing about interrupter is that its a mono white hard counter to counter magic. Flash in Interuppter to exile someones counterspell and now they can only cast their counterspell at sorcery speed, so its basically just gone forever.
Tayam player here, time to dunk on the evaluation (with love)
Vraska Joins Up does not go in Tayam. One-time counter generation for your dudes is already available with abzan ascendancy, and people aren't even 100% on that, even though it has way more synergy with the deck (Soul Cauldron, making dudes with vigilance counters when you sac stuff, etc.) Also, past a certain point Tayam actively does not want to draw cards unless things have gone horribly wrong, so the back half of the card isn't really great either.
There are some weird builds of Tayam playing Auratog, and MAYBE they'll look at it because you can re-use it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's mostly worse than other available options, so you would only really be interested for redundancy
Do you maybe have a list/primer for one of those auratog builds? I love that card to death and am looking at any excuse to play it in a more competitive setting.
@@JacobBos1988 I do not, it's not a particularly popular option for Tayam, but luckily it would also be a pretty small package in a more standard Tayam list. Just find room for auratog, thaumatog, Vraska joins up, and abzan ascendancy. Auratog is honestly optional (I blanked on thaumatog's name, it's the real star) but if you want it, it'll work. The only "trick" involved outside of the obvious is that you can sacrifice nature's chosen to make use of its once-per-turn activations multiple times, great with cradle and your big mana dorks
Totally agree, it's just not something Tayam really needed, the deck ends up being so grindy that dealing combat damage isn't a strength, and the one time counters really don't do anything to enable you're game plan, plus there's just way better options for things to give your stuff counters that actually help you, Rishkar being a great example by making your creatures all into mana dorks...
Surprised there was no mention of Tinybones. I think the card is gonna do some great things
Card is kind’ve a stinker. It’ll have its moments, but it’s a pretty do-nothing card, or a really slow-bad coin flip removal spell.
@@juggernautstark1 I've been testing Tinybones in the 99 since the day he was revealed and I think I am okay with the times he's just an above-average Tymna attacker, above-average blocker, and cheap body I sacrifice for benefit because the times where I get to cast a Ranger-Captain, Dockside, Study, Petal or Remora really makes up for it
I recently tested him and he can snowball for sure, I wouldn't say ragavan levels of power but definitely above average, pair it up with copious amounts of removal and get the freebie stuff in, also is a one drop with certain level of evasion while attacking
To add to the twiddle debate, cards like cerulean wisps to me are both cantrips and twiddles. They're like overlapping circles. A card is a twiddle if it taps or untaps something, and it's a cantrip of it's cheap and replaces itself. So some cards do both so they are both
Aven interupter also stops a lot of underworld breach lines making the free spells cast from graveyard cost 2 colorless extra. Its quite a nice stax piece
14:36 if you are using Interrupter to shut down Thoracle combo you target the tainted pact or consultation insted, having to play them at sorcery speed prevents any reset attempts
32:20 Colossal Skyturtle also deals with Abolisher on a combo turn. I've seen it being ran in RogThrasios
39:51 Moulton duplication also is an insane Magda card for adding new combo lines making your dwarves into artifacts
Spree is great for Casual EDH (and modal spells in general) because you want your slots to be ready for a wide variety of strategies. In cEDH the meta is more tightly focused so playing the best specific options are often the better choice.
You’re right. You can’t afford to have options most of the time. You just need whatever is best and most efficient
On the high noon: note that it has an activated ability and therefore it can be played in a deck with zirda as a companion.
On the aven interupter: since plotted cards can only be played at sorcery speed it is a full counterspell for other counterspells. Also it can Stop spells that cannot be counterd. I also think that hitting an adnaus would feel realy good since now your other Opponents need to find more interaction and will not use it on you.
Molten duplication does not give you the protection if you copy the one ring because you did not cast the token of the one ring.
Aven Interrupter reads weirdly because there's no 'speed' text on mtg cards, it's similar 'activate only as a sorcery' or 'cast any time you can cast an instant'
It's likely just shortened for older players since it's already ingrained to be slowly cast on our main phases when we have priority on our turns.
Archmage's Newt would be pretty sweet in a Narset Enlightened Exile deck. Commander saddles it and prowess makes it easier to saddle with your other creatures and get through with the newt.
I have to disagree that Aven Interrupter is worse than blue countermagic. The fact that it's creature based interaction means that there is very little to stop it on the stack. Force, pact, and mana drain are gonna be the only things to stop it most of the time, which makes it really good at stuffing wincons.
I don't suppose you guys could put links and time stamps for each card. I know it's a lot of work, but it's hard to go back and find a card after youve passed it without it
I would love to see a podcast discussing the ramifications of MTGO hosting cedh tournaments and lobbies
missing cards like sacrifice and all of fallout would be a huge difference, as well as the chess clock being an obstacle for many loops. i hope they make this episode too, still, as there’s a lot of nuance to these differences they could discuss
Guys, please look up the pronunciation of avarice. It’s Av-Ah-Ris (like the first syllable in Rhystic Study).
I feel like you guys need a Tayam guy, like me, on an episode. I have been running Tayam as my main cEDH deck for a few years now. You guys make a lot of good points but you admit you guys dont know Tayam very well and it always makes me chuckle lol Love you guys.
Stella also has another infinite with the act of treason from WOE, which makes a wicked role attached to a creature! Since only one role can be on a creature at a time, as you repeatedly copy the card, you'll keep making and saccing wicked roles, each of which will drain each opponent for 1 when they die! It's not a great main strategy, but if an opponent has something out to stop you from drawing additional cards (like Bowmaster, or Sheoldred??), it's a way of winning!!
I tried googling this...I tried looking up the cards ...I wasted so much time
For Stella Lee, Twisted Fealty was a big wincon in that deck, because it untaps the commander, and you create a role aura token on it, which every time it falls off, it pings 1 damage to each opponent.
It's probably Niche, or High Power.... But I'm really excited for Kambal, Profiteering Mayor: One generic, one white, one black legendary creature - Human Advisor - 2/4 - Rare
Whenever one or more tokens enter the battlefield under your opponents' control, for each of them, create a tapped token that's a copy of it. This ability triggers only once each turn.
Whenever one or more tokens enter the battlefield under your control, each opponent loses one life and you gain one life. Smothering Tithes, Docksides, Lothos, etali? Seems like it has a ton of potential, but maybe not quite cedh. Thoughts?
Entering tapped and only once per turns limits it quite a bit. In orzhov decks its probably decent, but if you are running 4 colors its probably going to be tough to find a slot for it
24:52 Gatherer page of Clone says that "If Clone somehow enters the battlefield at the same time as another creature, Clone can't become a copy of that creature. You may choose only a creature that's already on the battlefield."
so the clone and dockside play is a no
Archmages newt i could see getting played in kalamax because it forces the tap with him, and recasting an instant for free that will get copied is insane value
such a good video that im now on my sixth rewatch trying to consume all your information. All while learning something new everytime.
Kinda suprised to see no mention of the new Saroru the Infiltrator. I've seen lost of people trying to make a dimir eggs deck with him.
Love coming across these later and seeing you be right about high noon and Stella Lee. This one y’all nailed
Molten Duplication also copies a dwarf as an artifact dwarf, funny because it's good in Etali and Magda then. Card is just sick
A strong point of rakdos, the muscle is that he works as an outlet for the forsaken miner/phyrexian arena combo. He also allows dualcaster/molten duplication to win outside of combat.
"High noon? As opposed to low midnight?"
Got you, Cam. Always love the content guys! New set seems legit
Interupter also turna instant spells into sorceries which is actually useful. So even if they wanted to play the instant on the next players turn, they cant. They have to wait until their turn again.
It also makes it so that the card that gets hit by Interrupter can't be cast at all as long as there's a Drannith Magistrate out
Marchesa, Dealer of Death anyone?? Seems like it does grixis how grixis wants to be done no?? Card advantage, fuels underworld breech?
Cool thing about Molten Duplication is that you can perform the DCM combo with it on your post combat main phase and with Mayhem Devil out you will kill the table because the tokens sac at the end step.
The editing is getting better every pod. Always a pleasure dudes
The jitte untapping a land so that someone can pay for a spell pierce would also make a hilarious storry
42:16 I do want to point out that while this *is* true, since you have to copy the trigger on the stack, that means the opposing Dockside will make that many more treasure for themselves (unless you use them all beforehand)
One thing that has probably been pointed out about Rakdos, you don’t have to sacrifice creatures to him to get the exile effect, there’s no need to sacrifice the evoke creatures to him since they sacrifice themselves
For Kaervek, if you run Tor Wauki the Younger as a spell slinger/storm it lets you cast all your tutors, rituals, and card draw for basically free since the commander gives you the life back and let's you keep looping the crime committing
Didn't mention the new Satoru? That card's really frickin good in Yuriko.
Agreed. Also may be able to do a UB Anje-Style deck with 0 cost creatures (12? In dimir).
Not sure if yall are misunderstanding Rakdos, but his sac ability is not tied to his passive first ability. You can sac through whatever avenue you see fit and he still counts. Not for nothing, Tymna Dargo pilots have been trying him out, and my personal experience has been very good. He can easily take you from a non deterministic storm to a game ending combo within the first 2-3 turns of the game.
Kind of surprised the new Tinybones wasn't mentioned. It's far from a staple, but I think it has legs in most Tymna decks. Deathtouch is pseudo evasion and the trigger is pseudo card advantage. It's like very poor man's Ragavan.
One thing I like to add to bovine intervention is that alot of Turbo Rocco lists run Abrade and/or Get Lost as a way to kill Rector and also be a removal spell and it's just a better abrade
Importent for rackdos the muscle: if you evok an ingot chewer you will draw the cards regardless if you sac it to rackdos or not. The trigger on rakdos is not bount to his ability to protect it self. There for someting like gravecrawler phyrexian altar wins the game since you exile each opponents library.
And hey rakdos is commiting crimes so the new crime dude (when crime-> pay b to bring it back) works too
Had a long day of work and was very happy to see the new vodcast video can’t wait for the next
44:37 If they print a Black/Blue/Red Drannith, the Mishra BRO Commander becomes even more of a cEDH contender. You can cast Memory Vessel + Grixis Drannith, and then every turn sac the Warform token to infinitely lock everyone else out of the game so you can win
Marchesa is going to be amazing as the new grixis commander for grixis good stuff. I've already been plastering her and she is easily a threat once she is out just like ob or kinnan
40:40 Heat shimmer can copy stuff you don't control, so I don't think duplication removes it from the format
Fun fact it’s very specifically not kicker. You must pay one of the spree costs as spree reads “choose one or more”
I think something really cool that you guys didn't mention is Magda in other non-Magda decks. Like... imagine magda in Niv-Mizzet? You're already playing a control ish gameplan, if you target something on your turn and then interact(counterspells!) with 2 other players on their turns that's 3 treasures in that turn cycle? And once you have Niv-Mizzet out that's getting you a treasure every turn basically when you ping? Anything else Izzet+ for all the counterspells, Mardu probably loves this because that colour combo has a sizeable amount of interaction and it goes fast, really the possibility to be like 2 mana smothering tithe making you 4 treasures every turn cycle is what's getting me higher on this card.
EDIT: Oh god in Ob Nixilis??? The possibilities are endless...
Plot saying "cast it as a sorcery" is just like an ability saying "Activate only as a sorcery."
It's just sorcery for sorcery speed.
Pitiless carnage would go great in chaterfang, especially if you already have pitiles plunderer, just instant dump your board to draw that many, and you can sac the squirrels and the treasures too
For rakdos, his exile ability just requires a sacrifice, you dont need the sacrifice to be from him. This means evoke creatures trigger the card advantage from their own sacrifice triggers and he works with other sac outlets like ashnods altar.
It's funny, I remember a pro Magic player talking about Tarmogoyf back in 2009, and he said that if it cost 2G instead of 1G it would have almost seen zero competitive play beyond standard. Casting cost is 90% of evaluating a card.
Also follow up question about yalls opinion on plot as a mechanic. Bc it sounds really good to be to be able to throw a win con into plot which means on a later turn you can force out counter spells with cards on hand and still be able to have a now "free" win con you hit after baiting out oppents counter spells. Like just a strategy this sounds like it should be able work
Tinybones is cracked imo, it can snowball the game if left unchecked paired up with removal which only enables you and if you can keep hitting opponents consistently with it you can steal stuff like crypt, sol ring,remora, etc. It works like a backup Ragavan, I've also been working on it on a deck that Dylan looked into a while ago, which is called Covenant(Tymna/Jeska) and suits the theme of the deck
In the process of casting a spell you have to choose modes before paying costs since sometimes modes require additional costs. It's a but of pedantry but might help you find loopholes to outplay opponents
I think it could be worth keeping an eye out for what creatures turn out to be Outlaws for the Gold Wacker. Vigilance and haste are abilities that can improve some creatures. Think about how often a creature would be better if it had haste and vigilance does stuff like let you chip away at life totals with Dauthi Voidwalker while still holding up the ability.
What do you guys think of the new Marchesa? Low CMC Grixis value engine that also fuels Breach seems potentially decent
Really gonna love Vraska joins up in my high power Yoshimaru/Reyhan deck
Stella Lee also combos with Jolt and Infuse. As well as life loss with Twisted Fealty. Meaning there are 6 one card combos.
White seems to be getting a lot of great support in each set. Everytime a standard set rolls around, white gets some new really good stacks piece which is pretty wild
Love to see that green cards are never good enough to really be considered. Also love seeing that gruul doesnt really geta gruul card that works well in a 99, but rather they just get new ways to have gruul dockside outlets
I COMPLETELY FORGOT. River song got a huge upgrade, in the form of Tomb Trawler. Cheapest cost for that effect on the cheapest body its been printed on
Hey Dylan, where can I buy that shirt? 👀
Aven Interrupter with blink just gives mono white a free goddamn counterspell, and that is so damned powerful, jesus christ.
Bit surprised Satoru, the Infiltrator didnt come up. Really really strong blue black commander that can win the game off of like 6 different infinites within blue and black and allows you to play around 20 free cantrips to just turbo through the deck
Honestly, I did the same with Wheel of Misfortune, I took a ruler and scratched everything that Wheel of Fortune did not have. Gave that away once I finally bought my wheel of fortune
Sweet video guys!
I could see using lively dirge in my Korvold deck. Gives me a reason to jam Dockside without endgame.. pay 5 for dirge to entomb Temur Sabertooth and reanimate both for the win? Pipedream I know but I believe! 😂
Maybe I missed it but I’m shocked they didn’t talk about Marchesa, Dealer of Death. It’s going to be another Grixis control deck.
I think Esper and Bant decks might like to try the Aven because of the making breach a lot harder on top of being a “counter spell” that’s super hard to counter.
I’m a big fan of molten duplication funny that you brought up how you won’t play it in Magda I think I might try it since a lot of Magda lists are playing dualcaster combo plus molten can turn a dwarf info a artifact for clock of omens or turn sharpshooter into an artifact so it can tap and untap for lethal Magda’s win cons all over the place in 2024 my favourite and most clean is the kci,twin shot and elixir of immortality since you don’t need untapped treasures or to get or run maskwood I still run it in my deck as a backup wincon just incase my elixir gets binned somehow but new Magda auto include for sure another win con even tho it’s not instant speed still good ❤
I think if Insatiable Avarice was an instant it would be SO much better. it then becomes imperial seal that could also just hose the Thoracle player. The flexibility in them (like the commands) is really good, but flexabikity matters less at sorcery speeds
23:35 You need so little work to make lively dirge a wincon. The only “concern” is that the only 4mv 2 creature combo im familiar with, that is in at least black, is that pioneer amalia + wildgrowth walker(and i dont see anyone running walker so I doubt it would be included in lists just for this card). It also works as the one card for a one card commander combo if that other combo piece is a 4mv or less creature(it works as a 5mv spellseeker in inalla). This card, given some time for the community to find the best homes, should push near three, if not fully over that line(the line being ‘3’, a few decks may like it). Im a believer.
I know a Kodama tymna player who sees this as a way to tutor up a value piece & recur a previously destroyed hate piece with one spell under their own rule of law(or vice versa). This is probably affecting my judgement, but it’s scary to imagine them with even more redundancy for their dauntless dismantler or other swinging bodies. (Its scary that theyre less scared to attack type vibe)
Its a less color intensive way for sisay to get to climb up the chain, or grabs displacer kitten for teferi combos. But I definitely think 5c decks are too hungry for slots for Livey dirge to make the cut. (Edit: @ 50:00 lmao yeah)
There’s gotta be more decks in black that have a 4mv or less creature that combos w/ their commander, right?
Harvester of Misery could prolly have a home in Yuriko. Another way to deal with Abolisher that also domes people for 5 seems real good.
I've been waiting for this!! appreciate you guys so much!
Step between worlds is similar to Memory Jar which, as far as I'm aware, sees no play despite being easier to abuse.
Final showdown is cool, because Choose a creature is different than Target creature. It gets around your own creatures that have shroud and protection. Choose is a player based action like when a player sacrifices a creature. Great one sided board wipe in boros stax, boros stax is getting all kind of help this set 😄
Note with rakdos the exile effect is not limited to once per turn.
Honestly I'd rather play buried alive rather than lively dirge in reanimator/graveyard cedh decks. You can grab 3 combo pieces straight to the bin rather than just one. Even then its hard to justify the cost of the card compared to just using entomb.
"Molten Dub li cat ion" killed me. Holy shit lmao
You would not want to copy an opponent's dockside etb most of the time since you'll get the treasures, then they'll feed their dockside. That said, you can copy etali, though I don't know how spree functions if you hit it with etali (probably doesn't do anything)
Are you guys participating in the games at the Cloud City Tournament? My buddy and I are big fans - we'd love to get a game in if we can!
You don’t get protection from copying a One ring with molten duplication, it works with metamorph because it is being cast from your hand
Unmarked grave also is a sorcery
People still plays heat shimmer because it can target opponents' creatures in case you have none and dualcaster mage in hand
24:29 for lively dirge we also have to consider utility of the second mode. Return a countered thassa’s oracle without targeting it? Being able to bring it with a grand abolisher? I’m just coping but I think this card could have sleeper potential
Rakdos doesn't have to grab stuff from your opponents' libraries, even - you can just pull cards from your library if you want.
Molten duplication is gonna be soo good in Zada.
I had high hopes for the SaddleCaster Mage...but not realizing that Saddle was sorcery speed...yea. It's rough to be sorcery speed else you could saddle once you know it's not blocked.
My mind wanted to play this in modern with evoke elementals
Commandeer changes controllers of spells, and it's printed on the crime sheet alongside multiple counterspells, so yeah.
vraska joins up with bloodpod seems good letting your tymna draw more and creatures connect more