HOW GOOD IS OUTLAWS OF THUNDER JUNCTION IN cEDH? - cEDH SET REVIEW
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- Опубліковано 11 кві 2024
- Dylan and Cam discuss the cards from the new Outlaws Of Thunder Junction set that will potentially make waves in cEDH
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Quick correction you can't cast a spree card without paying at least one additional cost. i.e. final showdown cannot be cast for just one W mana and do nothing.
Came to the comments to write this hah
Yep, and this makes it kinda annoying in Bolas's Citadel decks.
Which makes me wonder how this works with Cascade/Discover/Escape
And, no matter how many modes you select, it can be stopped by a Mental Misstep 😆
@@Thelastpraetoryou can still pay additional costs after they are cast for free. It’s functionally modal kicker.
I do think it's really cool that that Aven Interrupter can act as a white counterspell. It gets around uncounterable and makes their counter be at sorcery speed...seems good.
Really looking forward to trying Interrupter in Tayam.
Same with Vraska Joins Up actually, looks really solid as well!
*Edit*
Honestly I think it's more playable as a stax piece shutting down food chain, and u cant tell me making led cost 3 exiled and 2 mana to get 1 still allows led to work? I feel like it'll be better then most blue counters and then stax out opponents underworld and food chain
@@zakcm555I mean you can get there with lotus petal instead of LED, it’s just harder, more cards needed. It does shut down bunch of things that can be cast from exile graveyard etc
Aven Interruptor does end up shutting down Breach lines. It makes LED (Or Petal) cost 2 and then also makes the Brain Freeze cost 4. It makes the loop go from being +1 mana to being -3 mana at best.
Molten Duplication copying The One Ring doesn’t give the protection.
It’s also good in Magda, because the copy is an Artifact Dwarf.
Aven Interupter if you exile a counter spell (being an instant), it will only be castable as a sorcery so will never be able to counter something while being plotted.
My b pocket had a comment
wasnt it also a direct cyclonic counter? it being an alternative casting cost -> cant cast for overload
The Goldwaker card turns your tressure into assassin's which are outlaws, which means he gives them vigilance and haste. Which means you can make all the treasures, go to combat and attack with them and then use them for mana in your post combat main phase.
The Inalla discord is actually very interested in Lively Dirge. It's 5 mana plus 1 more black to put a win on the stack with Spellseeker
The spree mechanic also helps have a low curve for ad naus decks, maybe thats a thing idk
I'll say I think you're right on Vihaan maybe not being CEDH and maybe being more high power tier, but theres some potential there for sure.
Him making the treasures into creatures with not just haste, but also vigilance, sets up a real "have your cake and eat it too" situation with hitting people in combat and sacking them to make more treasures and/or trigger aristocrat effects (i.e. mayhem devil). Not having to dig for a sack outlet to combo here seems pretty good.
1:03:05 if i understand raktos correctly you only need to evoke the creature and you will already triger the first ability without using the sack outlet
Same. I already built this deck and am hyped for it. Evoke as an ability is something I’ve been trying to abuse.
Came here to say this!
The decklist mentioned sounds a lot like what I brewed up. What’s fun is the new miner card goes infinite with phyrexian altar since rakdos commits crimes with his ability. And you can have that guy in the grave so the combo is difficult to interact with since rakdos has the indestructible ability
Aven interupter also stops a lot of underworld breach lines making the free spells cast from graveyard cost 2 colorless extra. Its quite a nice stax piece
39:53 Quick note that I believe molten duplication on one ring will not give you the ring's etb protection since you did not cast the one ring
One thing that is good to point regarding the Haste clause on Vihaan is that treasures that entered that turn wont be able to attack, but since the makes them into assassins, they are outlaws and gain the haste, making it possible to make the infinite treasures and attack in the same turn
One thing about interrupter is that its a mono white hard counter to counter magic. Flash in Interuppter to exile someones counterspell and now they can only cast their counterspell at sorcery speed, so its basically just gone forever.
A really fun thing to think about with the aven interrupter is protecting your own win cons and getting to cast them for free at a later turn.
For example if you ad naus and someone's going to counter it. You can flash us in to exile it and then you get to cast it for free on a later turn
For rakdos the muscle you don't need to use him to sacrifice the evoke cards to get the trigger, it's just whenever you sacrifice so evoke on its own will do the job
Tayam player here, time to dunk on the evaluation (with love)
Vraska Joins Up does not go in Tayam. One-time counter generation for your dudes is already available with abzan ascendancy, and people aren't even 100% on that, even though it has way more synergy with the deck (Soul Cauldron, making dudes with vigilance counters when you sac stuff, etc.) Also, past a certain point Tayam actively does not want to draw cards unless things have gone horribly wrong, so the back half of the card isn't really great either.
There are some weird builds of Tayam playing Auratog, and MAYBE they'll look at it because you can re-use it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's mostly worse than other available options, so you would only really be interested for redundancy
Do you maybe have a list/primer for one of those auratog builds? I love that card to death and am looking at any excuse to play it in a more competitive setting.
@@JacobBos1988 I do not, it's not a particularly popular option for Tayam, but luckily it would also be a pretty small package in a more standard Tayam list. Just find room for auratog, thaumatog, Vraska joins up, and abzan ascendancy. Auratog is honestly optional (I blanked on thaumatog's name, it's the real star) but if you want it, it'll work. The only "trick" involved outside of the obvious is that you can sacrifice nature's chosen to make use of its once-per-turn activations multiple times, great with cradle and your big mana dorks
Totally agree, it's just not something Tayam really needed, the deck ends up being so grindy that dealing combat damage isn't a strength, and the one time counters really don't do anything to enable you're game plan, plus there's just way better options for things to give your stuff counters that actually help you, Rishkar being a great example by making your creatures all into mana dorks...
Surprised there was no mention of Tinybones. I think the card is gonna do some great things
Card is kind’ve a stinker. It’ll have its moments, but it’s a pretty do-nothing card, or a really slow-bad coin flip removal spell.
@@juggernautstark1 I've been testing Tinybones in the 99 since the day he was revealed and I think I am okay with the times he's just an above-average Tymna attacker, above-average blocker, and cheap body I sacrifice for benefit because the times where I get to cast a Ranger-Captain, Dockside, Study, Petal or Remora really makes up for it
I recently tested him and he can snowball for sure, I wouldn't say ragavan levels of power but definitely above average, pair it up with copious amounts of removal and get the freebie stuff in, also is a one drop with certain level of evasion while attacking
So initially I had similar feeling about Lively Dirge, but the more I think about it I believe it may be Black's version of Invasion of Ikoria. For 4B, you essential search your library or graveyard for a creature mana cost 4 or less and put it into play, upside if you get 2 creatures back. I'm going to try it out in my Gitrog deck, as it can also be a tutor for Dakmor.
K'rrik and Rowan definitely look at Lively Dirge.
Isn't it more like Beseech the Mirror?
To add to the twiddle debate, cards like cerulean wisps to me are both cantrips and twiddles. They're like overlapping circles. A card is a twiddle if it taps or untaps something, and it's a cantrip of it's cheap and replaces itself. So some cards do both so they are both
32:20 Colossal Skyturtle also deals with Abolisher on a combo turn. I've seen it being ran in RogThrasios
Guys, please look up the pronunciation of avarice. It’s Av-Ah-Ris (like the first syllable in Rhystic Study).
39:51 Moulton duplication also is an insane Magda card for adding new combo lines making your dwarves into artifacts
Archmage's Newt would be pretty sweet in a Narset Enlightened Exile deck. Commander saddles it and prowess makes it easier to saddle with your other creatures and get through with the newt.
I have to disagree that Aven Interrupter is worse than blue countermagic. The fact that it's creature based interaction means that there is very little to stop it on the stack. Force, pact, and mana drain are gonna be the only things to stop it most of the time, which makes it really good at stuffing wincons.
On the high noon: note that it has an activated ability and therefore it can be played in a deck with zirda as a companion.
On the aven interupter: since plotted cards can only be played at sorcery speed it is a full counterspell for other counterspells. Also it can Stop spells that cannot be counterd. I also think that hitting an adnaus would feel realy good since now your other Opponents need to find more interaction and will not use it on you.
Molten duplication does not give you the protection if you copy the one ring because you did not cast the token of the one ring.
I would love to see a podcast discussing the ramifications of MTGO hosting cedh tournaments and lobbies
missing cards like sacrifice and all of fallout would be a huge difference, as well as the chess clock being an obstacle for many loops. i hope they make this episode too, still, as there’s a lot of nuance to these differences they could discuss
I don't suppose you guys could put links and time stamps for each card. I know it's a lot of work, but it's hard to go back and find a card after youve passed it without it
such a good video that im now on my sixth rewatch trying to consume all your information. All while learning something new everytime.
14:36 if you are using Interrupter to shut down Thoracle combo you target the tainted pact or consultation insted, having to play them at sorcery speed prevents any reset attempts
Spree is great for Casual EDH (and modal spells in general) because you want your slots to be ready for a wide variety of strategies. In cEDH the meta is more tightly focused so playing the best specific options are often the better choice.
You’re right. You can’t afford to have options most of the time. You just need whatever is best and most efficient
Stella also has another infinite with the act of treason from WOE, which makes a wicked role attached to a creature! Since only one role can be on a creature at a time, as you repeatedly copy the card, you'll keep making and saccing wicked roles, each of which will drain each opponent for 1 when they die! It's not a great main strategy, but if an opponent has something out to stop you from drawing additional cards (like Bowmaster, or Sheoldred??), it's a way of winning!!
I tried googling this...I tried looking up the cards ...I wasted so much time
Had a long day of work and was very happy to see the new vodcast video can’t wait for the next
Aven Interrupter reads weirdly because there's no 'speed' text on mtg cards, it's similar 'activate only as a sorcery' or 'cast any time you can cast an instant'
It's likely just shortened for older players since it's already ingrained to be slowly cast on our main phases when we have priority on our turns.
Cool thing about Molten Duplication is that you can perform the DCM combo with it on your post combat main phase and with Mayhem Devil out you will kill the table because the tokens sac at the end step.
Archmages newt i could see getting played in kalamax because it forces the tap with him, and recasting an instant for free that will get copied is insane value
I've been waiting for this!! appreciate you guys so much!
The editing is getting better every pod. Always a pleasure dudes
For Stella Lee, Twisted Fealty was a big wincon in that deck, because it untaps the commander, and you create a role aura token on it, which every time it falls off, it pings 1 damage to each opponent.
A strong point of rakdos, the muscle is that he works as an outlet for the forsaken miner/phyrexian arena combo. He also allows dualcaster/molten duplication to win outside of combat.
Really gonna love Vraska joins up in my high power Yoshimaru/Reyhan deck
I feel like you guys need a Tayam guy, like me, on an episode. I have been running Tayam as my main cEDH deck for a few years now. You guys make a lot of good points but you admit you guys dont know Tayam very well and it always makes me chuckle lol Love you guys.
Sweet video guys!
I could see using lively dirge in my Korvold deck. Gives me a reason to jam Dockside without endgame.. pay 5 for dirge to entomb Temur Sabertooth and reanimate both for the win? Pipedream I know but I believe! 😂
For Kaervek, if you run Tor Wauki the Younger as a spell slinger/storm it lets you cast all your tutors, rituals, and card draw for basically free since the commander gives you the life back and let's you keep looping the crime committing
One thing I like to add to bovine intervention is that alot of Turbo Rocco lists run Abrade and/or Get Lost as a way to kill Rector and also be a removal spell and it's just a better abrade
Kind of surprised the new Tinybones wasn't mentioned. It's far from a staple, but I think it has legs in most Tymna decks. Deathtouch is pseudo evasion and the trigger is pseudo card advantage. It's like very poor man's Ragavan.
42:16 I do want to point out that while this *is* true, since you have to copy the trigger on the stack, that means the opposing Dockside will make that many more treasure for themselves (unless you use them all beforehand)
Stella Lee also combos with Jolt and Infuse. As well as life loss with Twisted Fealty. Meaning there are 6 one card combos.
Also follow up question about yalls opinion on plot as a mechanic. Bc it sounds really good to be to be able to throw a win con into plot which means on a later turn you can force out counter spells with cards on hand and still be able to have a now "free" win con you hit after baiting out oppents counter spells. Like just a strategy this sounds like it should be able work
It's probably Niche, or High Power.... But I'm really excited for Kambal, Profiteering Mayor: One generic, one white, one black legendary creature - Human Advisor - 2/4 - Rare
Whenever one or more tokens enter the battlefield under your opponents' control, for each of them, create a tapped token that's a copy of it. This ability triggers only once each turn.
Whenever one or more tokens enter the battlefield under your control, each opponent loses one life and you gain one life. Smothering Tithes, Docksides, Lothos, etali? Seems like it has a ton of potential, but maybe not quite cedh. Thoughts?
Entering tapped and only once per turns limits it quite a bit. In orzhov decks its probably decent, but if you are running 4 colors its probably going to be tough to find a slot for it
Molten Duplication also copies a dwarf as an artifact dwarf, funny because it's good in Etali and Magda then. Card is just sick
I’m a big fan of molten duplication funny that you brought up how you won’t play it in Magda I think I might try it since a lot of Magda lists are playing dualcaster combo plus molten can turn a dwarf info a artifact for clock of omens or turn sharpshooter into an artifact so it can tap and untap for lethal Magda’s win cons all over the place in 2024 my favourite and most clean is the kci,twin shot and elixir of immortality since you don’t need untapped treasures or to get or run maskwood I still run it in my deck as a backup wincon just incase my elixir gets binned somehow but new Magda auto include for sure another win con even tho it’s not instant speed still good ❤
44:37 If they print a Black/Blue/Red Drannith, the Mishra BRO Commander becomes even more of a cEDH contender. You can cast Memory Vessel + Grixis Drannith, and then every turn sac the Warform token to infinitely lock everyone else out of the game so you can win
I think it could be worth keeping an eye out for what creatures turn out to be Outlaws for the Gold Wacker. Vigilance and haste are abilities that can improve some creatures. Think about how often a creature would be better if it had haste and vigilance does stuff like let you chip away at life totals with Dauthi Voidwalker while still holding up the ability.
Importent for rackdos the muscle: if you evok an ingot chewer you will draw the cards regardless if you sac it to rackdos or not. The trigger on rakdos is not bount to his ability to protect it self. There for someting like gravecrawler phyrexian altar wins the game since you exile each opponents library.
And hey rakdos is commiting crimes so the new crime dude (when crime-> pay b to bring it back) works too
Kinda suprised to see no mention of the new Saroru the Infiltrator. I've seen lost of people trying to make a dimir eggs deck with him.
vraska joins up with bloodpod seems good letting your tymna draw more and creatures connect more
24:52 Gatherer page of Clone says that "If Clone somehow enters the battlefield at the same time as another creature, Clone can't become a copy of that creature. You may choose only a creature that's already on the battlefield."
so the clone and dockside play is a no
Note with rakdos the exile effect is not limited to once per turn.
Pitiless carnage would go great in chaterfang, especially if you already have pitiles plunderer, just instant dump your board to draw that many, and you can sac the squirrels and the treasures too
"High noon? As opposed to low midnight?"
Got you, Cam. Always love the content guys! New set seems legit
Marchesa is going to be amazing as the new grixis commander for grixis good stuff. I've already been plastering her and she is easily a threat once she is out just like ob or kinnan
24:29 for lively dirge we also have to consider utility of the second mode. Return a countered thassa’s oracle without targeting it? Being able to bring it with a grand abolisher? I’m just coping but I think this card could have sleeper potential
Tinybones is cracked imo, it can snowball the game if left unchecked paired up with removal which only enables you and if you can keep hitting opponents consistently with it you can steal stuff like crypt, sol ring,remora, etc. It works like a backup Ragavan, I've also been working on it on a deck that Dylan looked into a while ago, which is called Covenant(Tymna/Jeska) and suits the theme of the deck
What do you guys think of the new Marchesa? Low CMC Grixis value engine that also fuels Breach seems potentially decent
Hey Dylan, where can I buy that shirt? 👀
Not sure if yall are misunderstanding Rakdos, but his sac ability is not tied to his passive first ability. You can sac through whatever avenue you see fit and he still counts. Not for nothing, Tymna Dargo pilots have been trying him out, and my personal experience has been very good. He can easily take you from a non deterministic storm to a game ending combo within the first 2-3 turns of the game.
Plot saying "cast it as a sorcery" is just like an ability saying "Activate only as a sorcery."
It's just sorcery for sorcery speed.
I had high hopes for the SaddleCaster Mage...but not realizing that Saddle was sorcery speed...yea. It's rough to be sorcery speed else you could saddle once you know it's not blocked.
My mind wanted to play this in modern with evoke elementals
In the process of casting a spell you have to choose modes before paying costs since sometimes modes require additional costs. It's a but of pedantry but might help you find loopholes to outplay opponents
Are you guys participating in the games at the Cloud City Tournament? My buddy and I are big fans - we'd love to get a game in if we can!
40:40 Heat shimmer can copy stuff you don't control, so I don't think duplication removes it from the format
Could archmage's newt be decent in krarkashima? The sakashima can saddle and a free spell to get it back to your hand seems ok
Interupter also turna instant spells into sorceries which is actually useful. So even if they wanted to play the instant on the next players turn, they cant. They have to wait until their turn again.
It also makes it so that the card that gets hit by Interrupter can't be cast at all as long as there's a Drannith Magistrate out
Im a little surprised that marchesa, dealer of death wasn't mentioned. Is the rate of one mana too bad?
Excited to try out high noon in winota
I think Esper and Bant decks might like to try the Aven because of the making breach a lot harder on top of being a “counter spell” that’s super hard to counter.
Don't know where exactly to go with this and love watching the videos but I have basically been out of magic since 2019. I really enjoy you all's content and all but cEDH seem kinda daunting to get into any recommendations for how to get in ?
Step between worlds is similar to Memory Jar which, as far as I'm aware, sees no play despite being easier to abuse.
I COMPLETELY FORGOT. River song got a huge upgrade, in the form of Tomb Trawler. Cheapest cost for that effect on the cheapest body its been printed on
damn molten duplication seems hella good. can see play with OG maga, phyrexian portal, dockside and in more casual games (Mishra, Eminent One)
The jitte untapping a land so that someone can pay for a spell pierce would also make a hilarious storry
Fun fact it’s very specifically not kicker. You must pay one of the spree costs as spree reads “choose one or more”
Aven Interrupter with blink just gives mono white a free goddamn counterspell, and that is so damned powerful, jesus christ.
I liked this video very much, good job guys but and the best green cards in CEDH?
Bit surprised Satoru, the Infiltrator didnt come up. Really really strong blue black commander that can win the game off of like 6 different infinites within blue and black and allows you to play around 20 free cantrips to just turbo through the deck
I think if Insatiable Avarice was an instant it would be SO much better. it then becomes imperial seal that could also just hose the Thoracle player. The flexibility in them (like the commands) is really good, but flexabikity matters less at sorcery speeds
No tinybones? I was excited to hear what you guys thought about that one
Loot says play so you can also do Lands right?
I could be wrong but final showdown first ability says until end of turn so anything cast after is still affected
You can also run kindred charge in etali
Harvester of Misery could prolly have a home in Yuriko. Another way to deal with Abolisher that also domes people for 5 seems real good.
Any thoughts on Magebane Lizard? Seems to be very narrow and pod dependent
One thing that has probably been pointed out about Rakdos, you don’t have to sacrifice creatures to him to get the exile effect, there’s no need to sacrifice the evoke creatures to him since they sacrifice themselves
Building this in temur with 13th doctor and the 2 cmc mana dork companion
Commandeer changes controllers of spells, and it's printed on the crime sheet alongside multiple counterspells, so yeah.
Maybe I missed it but I’m shocked they didn’t talk about Marchesa, Dealer of Death. It’s going to be another Grixis control deck.
Is Pitiless Carnage good enough for Gitrog because It just say pernament, you can sac a few lands to double draw. 3 lands equal 6 cards. Plotting it allows you to wait until gitrog hits the table
Archmage's Newt is pretty good with Kess, you already intend to fill your GY with things like tutors, having an extra copy of Kess that can be crewed by Kess to give you 2x spells out of grave a turn seems hepful
Should cantrips that untap be called cantaps or untrips?
servant of the stinger goes perfect for my current cEDH Alesha deck (I know 2016 ass commander)
I don't know of anybody already said this, but the saddle snapcaster thingy can see play on Talion