HOW GOOD IS MURDERS AT KARLOV MANOR IN cEDH? - cEDH SET REVIEW
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- Dylan, Cam, and Tyler discuss the best cards from the new Murders at Karlov Manor set to figure out how good they are in cEDH
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Glad Tyler's back! Missed him so much.
I found Tyler’s alt in the comments
@@friendo6257now you did 😂
Don’t forget that Trouble in France shuts off the Tivit extra turn line
With regards to the surveil lands: people underestimate how often a fetch land is being left up to play interaction, only to fetch a tapped shock at the end step. I think that any multicolor deck that wants to put things to grave should give these a look.
The reason they're not going to see play is that fetches aren't the majority of your deck.
It's got issues with being off tempo when you have it in your opening hand. You're already on a skinny amount of lands, these will not see play outside of decks on 33+ lands
Tyler pluggin his grinder at the end lmfao ☠
fully thought tyler had started producing grinders, not plugging the grindr lol
Hi, yes, i heard a group yelling for a judge. Insidious roots specifically says creature CARDS, tokens are not cards
Tokens can't leave your GY, don't see how there would be any confusion.
@@damo9961don't they? When a token dies it does touch the graveyard but it is immediately exiled after that. Otherwise blood artist would not trigger from tokens (for a creature to die it needs to go to the graveyard righr?)
Thus the token enters the GY, gets exiled and leaves GY
@pablowarcraft they don't get exiled. They dont trigger leaves the graveyard abilities. They stop existing.
111.7 A token that’s in a zone other than the battlefield ceases to exist. This is a state-based action; see rule 704 (Note that if a token changes zones, applicable triggered abilities will trigger before the token ceases to exist.)
The note at the end explains why dies triggers still happen
@@jacob510 No. The explanation is that in other zones than the battlefield, the game consider CARDS rather than other types. A creature can enter the graveyard. A creature cannot be in the graveyard, tho, only a creature card.
That's why effects like "dying" ("a creature enters the graveyard from the battlefield") can work on tokens, but "leaving the graveyard" cannot.
The end not you mention specifically means that a token WOULD trigger effects of "leaving the zone" IF said effect was considering "anything" rather than "card".
We also have had a card quite recently that consider if a permanent CARD left the battlefield, and that one is not triggered by token either despite token being absolutely able to leave the battlefield; but not filling all conditions.
'Korvold, our jund father' amazing 😂
Can I just say the goblin triggers on "each instance" of an artifact sacrificing, so the rate makes your clues one mana less to sac or breya nets two mana per use of her ability, it becomes easier for Malcom to generate more mana for the glint horn combo. It existing in godo is nuts, It's an awesome ecelerant
Voja stax?
wolf commander for elves seems silly when Jetmir enables RWG stax better
Any excuse to play bard class is good to me
@@brainundeadjetmir doesn't draw by himself while being an ender. Just have to treat the deck like a Malcolm/kediss while building with stax
@johnathangalus281 then play Rocco and tutor for whatever you need
@brainundead not wrong, just saying that voja has some advantages over jetmir.
I feel like once an episode Cam has a moment where his mind is utterly blown and it brings me back weekly. Protect this man
Stayed for commander content. Thumbs upped for the free Mac shortcut tutorial. Such value.
Cam, I got the badger mole reference! You rock!
Insidious roots will not trigger from tokens because it says creature cards specifically. Similarly to the why token don't trigger descend from caverns of ixilan. Love the content btw!
was just scrolling down here to say the same thing
yeah that makes sense, what about commanders dying?
@@joskajiri commanders that dies will trigger it if you put it into the command zone.
I'm glad to hear Prosper's name being muttered again. I feel like he's only getting better as time goes on! He's my personal favorite card, so I'm desperate for cEDH viability. 😂
Between the way Cam said "Pick Your Poison" like F.A.N.G. from Street Fighter V and a previous "Foot Dive" reference I'm convinced you guys play fighting games.
Best MTG content creators by far, love your work!
As far a gruul commander that has multiple paths to get there - have you ever considered Blanka (The Howling Abomination)? It’s a spelling slinging build that burns down opponents, can voltron really quickly, has a combo if you give it indestructible + keen sense effect + chain of plasma and a venerated rot priest out of you storm 10 with ground rift. Would love to see one you guys build this to the nth degree!! Love the content!!
"Ill have to investigate it" "woah thats huge" top tier comedy 👌🏾
In Urza Forensic Gadgeteer pretty much says play an artifact draw a card when Urza is out. Tap the clue for mana then activate it for one less. 🥜
It's one of the best cards in the deck at this point there are 4 unique combo lines this card enables + big value in general
Feel like the gadgeteer could be really great in Emry as well
It's worth noting that doorkeeper thrull also turns off the one ring protection. Relatively niche, but could have an impact in some games
Dylan wasn't thinking about the decks that want it
Stops also people from imprinting Chrome Mox!
Now I want a bonus Lightning Bolt with Madeline Khan’s “flames. On the side of my face.” 😂
Hey guys, I genuinely love watching your guys podcasts and episodes every week keep up the awesome content. But two things I just wanna say, three things rather because I forgot to put it in the krenko deck tech. Krenko is an insane new red combo commander with that goblin package, two cards trash master and Agatha's soul cauldron. (He puts a counter onto each goblin so exiling that RCE or dauthi enables all of your gobos to have that ability. And trash master with be a good four CMC because it's spot removal for your opponents artifacts hole triggering krenko every time. My own take on that) the other two things, I feel pick your poison may have been rated a little two low, green seldomly gets creature removal and I feel the rate that this provides is enough to always see value, wether it's setting players back in mana, or stacks or with flying being a more common means of commanders to have evasion depending on your meta game or play table this could be one green means kill Malcom, tivet, kraum, archon. Yes I agreed completely your opponents pick and Tyler brought up the instant argument it would be better, there are slowly becoming more ways to cast sorcery's into other peoples turns that see play. Overmaster, born upon a wind, alchemist refuge, EZ, ect.; lastly melek is so much fun and the amount to which he grows is insane a 100% grow rate per I/S is nuts. But I'm going to thoroughly enjoy the games where an endurance kills it. Keep up the awesome games guys! And keep playing to win.
I like how the treasures from storm-kiln artist will add to the gravestorm count for follow the bodies, definitely seems like it could open up some new lines for breach in izzet+ spell slinger decks
CAMERON YOU NEED TO MAKE TYLER AND DYLAN WATCH AVATAR!!! I can never believe when people haven’t watched that show
Great video guys!! You missed the best blue card and one the strongest candidates to best card in the set though: final-word phantom. I think it might see a lot play in midrange/control decks like Thrasios, Kenrith, etc. as it allows you to keep your mana up to interact or play your cards in your opponents's end steps.
This release makes me want to play Marneus again. It'll still be fringe but Trouble in Pairs, Officious Interrogation, and Mastermind Plum should improve the viability.
One card I'm surprised wasn't discussed is Final-Word Phantom. It probably won't be a staple, but since it offers the ability to win at instant speed and is a flying blocker with flash, it's worth testing imo.
I am really excited to ramp up the goblins and try them at cedh. Trouble in pairs was made for my Shalai and Hallar deck.
If somrene plays chain of vapor on doorkeeper thrull you replay it immediately as it have flash. If someone tries to remove it you can bounce it with chain of vapor and play it again even.
I have been checking your channel every day for the last week waiting for this review of the new set , finally 😂
Super excited to try out Archdruid’s charm and pick your poison in Selvala. More ways to dispose of the one ring will always be welcomed!
If you're wondering why each token made by Follow the Bodies triggers Marneus Calgar: remember that gravestorm (much like storm) copies the spell, not the effect: each copy goes on the stack and resolves individually. (This is the same reason you can't counter a Flusterstorm with normal counterspells.)
"Fetchable land speed time walk"
😂 just talk about a tapped dual surveil land there! 😂
love you guys!
Thanks for makin it fun to watch your podcast 😁
Because insidious roots specifically says creature card, tokens won't trigger it because tokens aren't considered cards
Good point!
I haven't been this excited for a set in some time. Can't wait to play it!
This one's gunna be great, looking forward to drafting it too!
Surveil lands home is Thalrog (Thalia and The Gitrog Monster). Tyler’s/Dylan’s reason of reanimation strats is number 1, but playing two lands a turn then sacrificing a land to her attack trigger means I can risk playing a tapped land that becomes the sacrifice for draw the same turn. Also, I know proxies are normal for cEDH, but I don’t run any. I still need a scrubland to go with my other two duals and the 9 fetchlands. If I run all three Abzan surveil lands, I have 9 targets for my 9 fetches, but anyone not proxying in cEDH will almost certainly run at least one of these. It’s the best tapped fetchable land they’ve printed.
I run some of the 2 colorless for 1 colored mana filters in my Rasputin deck. Prismite does it and so does gemstone array. No tapping necessary!
What do you think of “Reenact the Crime”? 1UUU instant: “Exile target nonland card in a graveyard that was put there from anywhere this turn. Copy it. You may cast the copy for free.” Seems like it could be really strong in low color blue decks, decks that mill, or just as great value, get a remora back, copy an ad naus?
You dudes are definitely never wrong! Hope I pull all these in the Prerelease!
I dont play cedh but i regularly watch ur guys vids. Good to keep up on whats going on! Thanks boys!
Someone played trouble in pairs in my
Pod while we had one rings out and rustic studies and this card was drawing as much as us. Insane card
Anzrag, The Mole God is probably a really good causal Commander. With the Fog trick, you can do stuff like Mage Slayer and Fiendlash, as well as other attack triggers.
You can also look at ways to give your opponents tokens to block.
Daryl,Hunter of Walkers/Hansk,Slayer Zealot can draw you 2 cards a turn.
Just seems like a fun card
Case of the Stashed Skeleton is *chef kiss* in Korvold.
Because the anzrag fog loop gets you infinite attacks, not just untaps, you could also play hellrider effects. Zhur-taa druid is a bad mana dork that can work as a win-con. The options are there, even if they are bad.
Forensic engineer is a better fill in for (etherium sculptor) in those reality chip/ divining top lines specifically in urza where I can tap the generated clue token for mana
Love seeing tyler back always appreciate his takes
Gadgeteer makes the clue tokens only cost 1 to activate and you don't have to tap them so you use urza to tap it for mana and use that mana to sac it
32:05 Love these new secret modified file cards
Dress Down + Due Respect is what I will hold [2] mana up for cause it's impacts the board for [1] turn which allows me to do what I want when I untap.
The trio is back! ❤❤❤
43:35 it says creature CARD on it, but if it didn't it would not trigger. Tokens don't leave the graveyard, because "leaving" the graveyard is the process of moving to another zone. Tokens cease to exist as part of a state based action per (111.7.) A token that’s in a zone other than the battlefield ceases to exist. This is a state-based action.
603.6c Leaves-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent moves from the battlefield to another zone, or when a phased-in permanent leaves the game because its owner leaves the game.
This leads me to believe that you would not have any leaves the graveyard effects even if there was a card that existed with the templating "whenever a creature leaves your graveyard" without the need for it to be a card.
I love the card 'modified file', it goes great in blue farm
Burakos/ Folk Hero is going to love Mastermind Plum.
Chulane, Teller of Tales with doorkeeper would be sick! Trying to brew Chiulane, may try heavy flash and Agatha's Soul Cauldron for some real spice
Oh man, I love "Error: Modified File", its my favorite card ever! 32:06
17:31 in terms of filtering mana, artifacts either have to lose mana (like energy refractor) or tap/sacrifice (like the original eggs from odyssey or wizard’s rockets). There are a bunch of Eggs/KCI lines that Forensic Gadgeteer enables.
Also, you can play Case of the Stashed Skeleton off of Lurrus, which is disgusting.
Forensic Gadgeteer will be sooooo good in Kinnan. It’s an extra Kinnan effect for Basalt and makes Grim Monolith work
The thrull is a two mana flying star piece that can trigger tymna. Maybe there's some sort of home in low color tymna stax?
Hear me out, Livio/Tymna stax? Livio let's you pick up stax pieces your own stax pieces and is a two mana tymna attacker. It's not great by any means but it's interesting
Mastermind plum could also work in ob nix/ prosper tome bound. Getting more benefits from treasures
18:08 “whoa” 😂😂😂
Inspiring statuary isn’t actually a bad shout as it works around null rod effects as a use for those rocks as you can improvise out the expensive creatures
Honestly a great set, haven't been excited for a set for a long time now, but been following this one for a while now.
Tyler's Forensic Gadgeteer lore needs to be made into a Short asap
I think Cam was thinking of Lay of the Land! One Green to grab a Basic.
The serviel lands as they are fetchable I honestly would like to test to see if they would be deece with only a single one in my deck. So if I got nothing to use my mana for or nothing was worth countering I could fetch instead a surveil land and it would be just an extra little dip in value. But won't play any more than 1 in a deck. Too many and it would affect my mana base too negatively.
In regards to Insidious Roots, tokens aren't cards so they won't count as creature cards leaving the graveyard. I got schooled on this when building a Tormod, the Desecrator thinking i could sac a 2/2 zombie token to make a 2/2 zombie token to combo off with Mirkwood Bats.
the completely unhinged escalation on the surveil lands is possibly some of my favourite content
Cam: “this is like, the most modes they’ve ever put on a card.”
Sublime Epiphany: “am I a joke to you?”
Melek was my....3rd? ever commander in casual, but I needed to take it apart because it was too solitaire for the playgroup. I REALLY now want to see what his reformed version does in cEDH 👀
Are those the Berserk deluxe editions by Dark horse in the background? If so you guys earned extra cool points and a thumbs up.
in Anzrag aswell there’s the free green commander free instant in the Deflecting Swat cycle
Anzrag work perfectly with Hellrider, you can do the infinite combats through fog and put in a hasty hellrider to deal the lethal damage.
Insidious Roots doesn't trigger when tokens leave graveyard because it says "creature card", if it said "creature", then it would trigger.
I love the conspiracy theory behind Mastermind Plum
Shouts out to Cam bringing up ATLA
Tokens will not trigger insidious roots as they are not creature cards. They need to be an actual card in order to trigger the enchantment.
Good point to add as well!
Wouldn't trouble in pairs kind of stop the time sieve line from tivet?
I love these guys energy
Imagine that you Zur out the case of the Stashed Skeleton and then if you have a sac outlet it’s just a demonic Tutor 😂
Man, I can't believe Orcish Bowmasters didn't get mentioned in the Delney conversation. It was the first thing I thought of when I saw it.
Also Malcolm, and bringing new fresh air to Malcolm Tymna. Pretty good 4 treasures and 2 draws.
I know very little about cEDH but would Tivit want Follow the Bodies? More artifacts to sac to time sieve and if you use treasures from Tivit to cast it add the to the gravestorm counter doesn't it? Just a thought that made sense in my mind. Great video!
Tivit’s card quality is so damn high I can’t see it happening
Regarding Insidious Roots: Tokens aren't considered cards when they leave the battlefield, so they won't trigger the second line of Insidious Roots.
The one thing about the thrall is, he also stops a One Ring ETB
49:15 Cameron i love you so much for witching ATLA 💖 that is literally the best show ever made, tell Dylen and Tyler to fucking watch it pleaseee!
Delney, streetwise lookout is great in tymna Dargo. You have a lot of good creature in that deck that abuses the second line of text with the etb
S/o to Tyler wearing a Peach Fest shirt! Need more jam band rep in the cEDH scene
There's a few scarecrow that does filter 1 for 1 generic to any color
That Marneus “rule change” isn’t new, as a long-time Tivit player it’s been around and is why I’ve heavily considered running Marneus in the 99. Also, Follow the Bodies will be crazy good in Tivit
Cam picked up on prosper, but ya’ll forgot malcolm vial smasher for mastermind plum. Should be pretty decent there.
34:42 Yisan? Tyler knows what's up.
For insidious roots rulings, yes tokens do hit the GY but there are 2 wording formats 1 for "permanents" and 1 for "cards". Tokens are not cards in this case but they do temporarily hit the GY. Descend keyword from Ixalan set highlights this.
Highlight of my week right here
Idk if it goes anywhere else, but Ellivere DEFINITELY wants the thrull. Sure the gotcha flash thing is a bit weird and not always great but dropping it wnd of turn cycle then getting a role on it to beat face with is great.
I think follow the bodies wont see a lot of play in this meta because of dockside, however, I think it could be good a few things. Maybe Malcolm/Kediss // Malcolm/* because it’s easy to get the gravestorm up while also benefiting from mass artifacts
Insidious roots says "creature cards" and that's why tokens don't trigger it
Irresistible prey is one mana cantrip that forces Anzrag to be blocked, I think possible uses for the card are with cheap indestructible or must block effects. I think it is fairly likely in cEDH that at least one opponent has a board of utility creatures with less than 4 total power so just having a must block effect would often give one extra attack and possible combat value effects. Overall it still seems too weak for competitive.
I'm absolutely sweating over the idea of casting Anzrag in my casual Xenagos deck. I love my disaster mole so much
Wouldn't Forensic Gadgeteer enable some card draw combos with Hully B. If you can produce colorless you can crack those clues for the card draw.
Yeah it’s also the outlet once you’re infinite with hullbreak but hullbreak decks typically have the outlet in the command zone like tevesh, thras or urza
36:15 Dig and Pollen are perfect together bc Dig is all of pollens cmc
Btw, in the Musical of Clue, *SPOILERS*
The character that is portrayed as being Professor Plum is not actually Professor Plum, instead a character who has taken his place. Additionally, since the musical works similarly to the game, if you get the professor plum ending, you find out that real professor plum has taken over the piano player's position and is the real murderer.
Obscuring Haze is the fog you want for 'mole god'. Costs no mana and is 1 sided damage prevention.
isidious roots reads creature cards, tokens are not considered cards but they are considered permanents or it would work that way
17:19 The cards Tyler was thinking about is real, but it has to be sacrificed. Guild Globe is one of them.
I feel like the skeleton case would be good in Korvold as well because it gives you 2 sacrifice triggers
43:48 tokens will not trigger Insidious Roots because the text of the card specifies creature CARDS leaving the graveyard. As tokens are not cards, no relevant actions happen and insidious roots does not trigger.