its not even tht bad, it's biggest issue is clarity with the shapes and colors, a lot of them bleed into each other and it makes it hard to see, but it's something easily fixable
@@katliente they were rude for no reason it truly makes no sense, they could of explained what they didn't like about the design rather than instantly shutting the conversation down by saying D tier
true critic would be to explain why it feels like there are two tails when in reality is only one, they could have said that the tails should have been placed more horizontally to the model and on the botton so that it doesn't feel so out of place, and talk about the colors, that although cute on the model, they superimpose due to being light pastel colors, pink and cream don't match too well together here because they fade in with the skin tone, but maybe the orange on the wings does, maybe adding that orange to the clothes instead of cream could work, and the wings instead of orange, gold... I think I am overthinking the model...
One of them uses a premade vtuber lol not even an actual model so worsee! (no offense for premade vtubers, i am one myself) Im just saying as they are talking like they even be having their own stuff but they dont even. At least Mao has her own model, her own unique model and its so cute!
What do you mean "It's like"? This stuff are way too common and so are cliques which one would be disappointed to find out are real outside of high school and the occasional pencil pusher office job
I just saw this floating around Twitter and shared my thoughts there already. They never properly explained why the design was D Tier or what could have even been improved to make it better. It was just dickish mean girl behavior. Not a design critique in the slightest… Hopefully Mão Mão won’t let this situation get to them.
They did say too much stuff going on. That's legit critique, the model is way too busy. Tho had they added specifics of what to remove or change to make it better may not have come across as humiliating.
@@Utrilus Simply stating they had "too much" stuff isn't a critique - that's a personal opinion. Same with calling it D Tier. There's nothing constructive about it to qualify as a critique. Critiquing involves stating specifically what you think it's wrong with it. What counts as too much? What elements could make it appear more seamless or visually appealing? It also involves acknowledging the strong points of something and what shouldn't be changed for the sake of balance. If there's no proper feedback, it's not a proper critique.
@@CozyCabbit Critique is on a spectrum. Something simple as the face is off is valid too. So saying the image is too busy is valid as well. It's more in the line of a general audience level of critique rather than a professional character designer.
As someone who uses a premade model, I respect those who make their own models/design their own models. Trashing someone just because /you/ don't like their design is peak bully behavior.
I agree with you, I also use a premade model at the moment while working to design my own its not easy not just to design but to find the right artist to bring your vision to life.
I thought it was absolutely adorable too and it seemed real 80's moe in design choice. I just think it may have been overloaded with accessories which is not the end of the world for a model and probably took so much effort to make. I'm surprised that's the one that was bullied.
I would like to add that Mao was not the only one who got negative feedback. Myself and some other vtubers got negative feedback about their designs. I posted the clip on Mao's post and I was shocked that I got so much positivity about my cosmic lolita design. It was honestly a shame that they could not think of something positive. We did not want them to stop streaming, we just wanted them to understand that what they said was awful.
awwh im so sorry this happened to you ;-; i definitely figured that if they said this about one vtuber, there's no way other vtubers didn't also experience the same bullying from them :(
It looks like the "2nd Tail" (The one to the left) isnt actually a 2nd tail. it looks like its the pattern to rig the tail into its desired shape (The actual tail on the right) as it isnt connected to the body whatsoever. Its easy to tell this person is somewhat new to templating and it breaks my heart to know they were treated so harshly. 💔
If that tail is removed, and all of the pointy bits on the real tail are colored in the same pink color (instead of alternating between gold and pink) I think it would fix almost everything with the model. Perhaps both socks could be put on properly as well, though that isn't as much of a problem.
Its frustrating "bully critique" is the new "norm". And its a lot of famous UA-camrs that encourage it (with lots of people calling them out, of course). We need to stop normalizing this crap.
Super weird because the “bullying critique” died out in the art community YEARS ago How the heck is it turning up now in the vtuber sphere. Just childish and immature bullies finding ways to make fun of others under the guise of “critique” so that they can make fun of unsuspecting people, just gross
A simple design can be good, but it means you didn't try to do something interesting. At least having one stand out feature that makes it distinguishable is good. And besides one of them is still using a premade so there is even less of a authority to bash the design of someone else.
@@yoskinny Drow/Dark elves are a fantasy race, they look like a generic version of that kind of fantasy race, thus the person is criticizing them for bashing someone else without much of an interesting design. Only person thinking about race here is you.
The "I didn't intend" excuse is in hope that people will give them the benefit of the doubt or leniency in what they did. It becomes "they didn't mean to, don't be mean for a mistake" rather than what they actually did or the impact.
I will say I don't think the "you can't critique if-" is at all a valid stance with informal/non-professional feedback anyone with the gift of sight can tell when something doesn't look right to them, whether it's clashing colors, hyper clutter, wonky proportions, or whatever else these two were just unnecessarily petty over something that didn't meet their standards
true! I would just argue that the point of a critique is to receive constructive criticism that could lead to future improvements -- while some people without art background can distinguish WHY something is visually "unappealing" (for lack of a better term) to them, they may not have the tact and ability to convey HOW to make necessary changes to improve it, which is the main point of a critique!
Usually the main point is that you have the vocabulary and literacy to understand what makes it "look off" to you personally. People who don't end up getting flustered and then vomit hate out instead because they can't give a good reason or don't even know why something looks off to them. You don't have to be an artist to critique, but you need at least some knowledge in the space to actually put things into words that are useful. Critiques are supposed to be useful and if you can't add that then you probably shouldn't comment on it.
@@whoahanant no need to repeat what's already been said, the CC elaborated and even I originally listed some things people naturally pick up on with minimal knowledge
Honestly, the model Mao Mao has is not that bad at all. There's a lot going on, but that image with the tail and its rig doesn't really show the model in the most flattering way. It's so easy to think it's two tails. Mao Mao's model is also super recognizable with how unique it is.
Trust me i thought they had 2 tails as well but because those "critiquers" looked at it so quickly i couldnt see what was going on. The tail on the left is just to show a straight version of their actual tail on the right. It was just a graphical design layout issue.
When I used to critique other people's writings I would do the cake method. Start with generally positive, critique, positive, critique, and so on until you typically have more positives than negatives. Finish with what you would change and why, bring up what others besides yourself may like (trends/niche/etc) then finally end on the topping, the best of what you liked.
omg i know this stream, i submitted my vtuber on here too though i was lucky enough for them to say they actually liked my design and even gave me S+ tier. (you can actually see me in the video, i’m the second design in the top row of the unranked section, the blue nekomata.) when the vod was still up and i watched it, i can vouch that when they were talking about other designs, i did think they were being kinda harsh and making fun of the designs they didn’t like. they definitely could’ve been nicer about it, this seemed like a roast session more than actual critique!
9:02 I agree with all your takes except this last one. I have been drawing since I was little. I once drew a piece that I was very proud of. I showed it around to the people I knew and I got a lot of praise for it. I showed my little sibling, who gave me a scathing review. I told them. "Who are you to say if this drawing is good or not. You don't even draw." ....their reply was. "I might not draw. But I do have eyes." ....that opened my eyes. Everyone can have an opinion and see if something looks good (in their eyes) or not. A food reviewer doesn't have to be an A tier chef. However, what these ladies were doing was not a "critique". What they were doing was bullying.
If anyone here saw the video about a model scout rating different people, that scout is absolutely how you should rate anyone by their looks. He is extremely straightforward but you can tell that everyone who walked in there and got rated, whether they were "rejected" or "accepted" (they were asking if the scout would put the people on a high fashion show), walked out of there a little bit more confident with themselves.
I love how you're fully wrong about the 2 tails and it being 1 tail. that's a design problem! like you were saying about the silhouette. the language of the model is too complicated for some of us and things could be move, removed or swapped/changed. that confusion is TOTALLY a good constructive criticism. those 2 other vtubers were SO wrong to just out right look at it and be like, naw daw that's wack D tier
i would've said "There is a lot of stuff going on, but if she likes it then i'm happy for her, she deserves to have her character look like what she wanted." I may not like it, but i won't be rude to the person who created it an loves their character
the critique they got wasnt that bad imo. not helpful. i was totally expecting a more scathing shit show on that design feedback. but its defo not nice
This reminds me of the whole Dreamneko situation awhile back when another artist and his girlfriend publicly shamed and started saying ableist insults towards her and her work. Edit: They immediately got backlash for it by the streamer and art community. Unfortunately, one of my favorite artists joined in on the insults in their twitch chat, so that sucked for me.
just a small note, nothing serious, but in terms of stuff like murder, intent 100% matters, because if you accidentally shoot someone, thats manslaughter which is bad but is not murder
2:02 Oh my goodness I was listening instead of watching and they were absolutely right it is too much, it does look like there are five designs combined into one. And even though they were kind of rude about it, which is an appropriate, she did send her model in on a tier list ranking system. I want to see how they rated other models that were sent in, because if they speak this way about everyone and that's their show then really she should have known and expected. It's like entering a roast and getting upset when you get roasted.
My philosophy when it comes to critiquing is to always point out something that works well within the piece/design, and then point out what isn’t working with solutions to make it work. Which is how a critique should be done, honestly. Not only is it helpful to know what does work, it’s also helpful to know how to fix the parts that don’t work as well!
I am a critiquer but yea I'd throw it in D tier as well. It's too much going on & the design makes no sense. However I'd still explain to her why I threw it in there
I'm confused why people are all calling it a "critique" stream. It looks like their post on Twitter said it was a "Judgement" stream and "they apologize in advance if they sound mean." That sounds like a roast stream.
OMG MY COMMENT! Surprised to see you commenting on a lot of the recent drama in the Vtuber scene. It's been very spicy recently on the twitter front, and I'll willing to always pass your current news if you want it. If I had to critique the design in question, it would probably be color saturation for me, since it kind of muddles together with a lot of high saturation colors. So I think some color palette adjustment would take it a long way. Like your critique thread example, it's easy to actually point out things you might not like and still encourage them. I only view myself as a hobby artist though, and this very well just might be better for some people to avoid this without much art or design experience. Character design is really hard at the end of the day and not all vtubers are even created with that in mind. I understand that this new 'trend' stemmed from the SmolLola/Lolaphin drama, but if people wanted to review designs just based on how much they like them we have Smash/Pass streams for that. Even then it's very easy to categorize those in a unique way like Mommy/Big Sister/Girl Next Door/Friend/Little Sister etc so that we're not doing weird bullying for content.
I don't think the hateful responses are helpful either. They obviously know they messed up, but nothing they do will change that. They should admit that what they did was wrong, and that it was actually their thoughts at the moment, instead of trying to make it sound like they didn't mean it. Owning up to their mistakes, and learning from them, is far better than running away from the problem. The ones being angry should instead focus on supporting each other, and doing proper critiques, instead of spreading hate.
@@Subzearothese people don’t care. Cant imagine how not liking a design makes you a bully when literally these people were shouting racism and harassing these two over a design. Aint it ironic
the way they went about it was really poor, but her model is way to busy makes it look worse than it is. she just needs to scale it back a bit, but that's just my opinion, i personally would have a hard time watching her as the model is borderline an overload of just stuff.
From looking at the design it looks like someone needs to be removed or at least some stuff needs to be smaller. I think the wings (even more so six of them) and tail just clash too much, but that might be my bias that says having both a tail and wings is a cardinal sin of character design.
I'm tired of people using "critique" as a false way so they can bully others for the fun of it ... A critique is "a detailed analysis and assessment of something", not being a nasty person.
It was a tier list stream. What exactly detailed analysts have you ever seen of a tier list stream? Furthermore you don’t need to give such a detailed analysis to critique anything. You don’t have to be a chef to know when rice is over cooked. I swear indie vtubers prove time and time and time again that can’t go a day without nothing burger drama.
Least they apologised, that's something. Critiquing without constructive criticism isn't really critiquing, most of the time, it's being a jerk. If you're genuine with it, it helps to critique your own works and get better.
Honestly, the "critique" was horrible, but the design has way too much going on, and I agree with them. I don't understand what I'm honestly supposed to focus on in the design in general.
You missed out on something very similar that happened 6-7 months ago. There was this Vtuber who was doing a smash or pass stream with some other vtuber friends. The Vtuber hosting the collab was not the problem but it was one of her friends, a cow vtuber(sorry, cannot remember the name) who caused the drama. This one design came up and the cow started calling that vtuber's design a prissy b*tch and other things. The vtuber who was humiliated called out them and the person who was hosting the collab on twitter. The host apologized because she didn't expect that to happen and that she should have shutdown the collab when it happened. However, the cow doubled down on her shit behavior and after getting even more backlash, she did made an apology post but it was made with A.I. Then she gave more bullsh*t excuses on why she didn't give a proper apology written in her own words. Before I ended up blocking that account because I was tired of seeing it pop up on my feed, they announced that they would be going on hiatus due to mental health reasons or how I like to call it, going into hiding and hope everyone forgets in a few months.
i remember this!! the cow vtuber youre talking abt is @/Cowbellchaosvt, had to dig around and apparently they are still making disses at the vtuber that was the victim as of April of this year. such bitchy behavior.
Ok but why is no one talking about the fact it took Mao Mao two weeks to say anything? Didn't the SmolLola stuff happen in that time? Something's fishy.
Why are you looking for a reason to say Mao Mao is suspicious? Are you that conspiracy-brained? Receipts have been provided, and there's a thing called "working up the courage to speak".
@@StygianIkazuchi it's also pretty common for people to get rage baited into providing followers and art. Hell, SmolLola did it successfully 3 times before anyone said anything.
They didn't even mention what the "lore" was. If they took a second to actually THINK, Mao being a Cat God would show that the design is actually really brilliant? The design reminds me of Biblically Accurate Angels and it fits well with the theme, but not a lot of people would understand that if these two don't actually SAY what the lore even is...
There is definitely a way to say that there are issues with the design without being mean about it. At no point did they give any constructive criticism to help improve this person's model or having anything nice to say at all. I've gone to art school where critiquing is the norm, and the way those two went about critiquing Mao's work would absolutely not fly. Sure there are things that can be fixed due to parts of the designs competing with each other in terms of color and certain elements, but being nice goes a long way.
Like, if you cant cririque, why bother calling your stream a "critique stream", just say that you will roast people's designs or something like that, in this case people would know what they are signing for
They didn't call it a critique stream. It was a judgement stream, but because one person said she didn't receive critique everyone assumed it was supposed to be a critique stream.
@@nyxvillanueva661 even so, didnt need to act that way, Im not saying that they shouldve praised the design or anything, but normally say why they dont like it and why they put it in D tier. They acted like children who cant control theie urge to be rude
@@WaffelWuffel even still, if someone can't handle being laughed at for 20 seconds, do they really have a shot on the Internet that's full of people that will mock you over less? Be honest. They were a bit harsh, yeah, but it's not like they said the person was a bad vtuber.
Same idea with Mao's design - Silhouette is important, it has to be concise and comprehensible and needed to immediately recognize what the character represents. If she's representing herself as a cat person with wings, she needs to rearrange some elements and if necessary, remove some elements becoz the more elements u put in ur design, the more confusing the identity of ur character gets and there's just too much to read in it. 1) Her wings could be softer or in the same shade from her major color palette so make a sense of belonging to her overall design 2) the headdress could be designed smaller or exaggerate the ears (make it bigger) to have proper contrast 3) im getting the wrong side of 'gap moe' here, too much cuteness on the dress and the tail have super sharp elements along the outline - one thing is balance, balance the frills, where u put the ribbons are, also a better color value becoz the designs on the dress all blends in into one singular design - i cant see much of the details properly 4) also the tail shape, it looks more of a squirrel than a cat's 5) when designing, its better to make with a dynamic pose, where u can show the personality of ur model to better understand how ure going to prep and rig them after
intent does matter with the scenario you gave no you wouldn’t be a murderer you would be a killer there is a difference, but I will say that is only in cases of the legal situation 99.9% of the time. Hey Siri the real world as long as you’re not doing, crimes intent, doesn’t matter
I would like to point out the word "Biases" in Seira's apology. Bias: "Prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair." Let that sink in. She didn't like it from the moment she saw it because she was biased towards that design. A common rule of thumb when giving *specifically* design critiques is to *not* be biased, and the whole reason is because, as she even admitted, clouds clear judgement. You should not critique designs when you have a bias towards certain ones. If you are going to give constructive criticism you should put that sort of attitude to the side or not do it at all. Especially when you know and actively acknowledge you are biased. Edit: Biased no longer looks like a word to me. Edit 2: I would like to point to ToastyBees comment in my replies because they actually said what i wanted to say with the last bit of my comment!
Bias is inherent to human thought. It is the inescapable result of lived experiences. If you have only ever had bad interactions with a certain type of person, you may have a natural bias against that type of person even if you recognize intellectually they are not all the same. The best thing you can do is recognize your biases and scale your judgement accordingly. All that being said there is a right and wrong way to critique a stranger, and they did it the wrong way.
Growing content creators gotta learn real quick that they can no longer be super critical of things like other content creators or indie games. You've got power now whether you know it or not, be careful!
whilst i do have to agree, there is a lot going on in the model and it can be hard to tell whats what and what goes where, it is not a D tier model. the colors work very well together and compliment each other well. i especially love the kitty paw glove thingys (i have no idea what to call them /lh). i feel the outfit is the thing that could stay the same. alongside the hair. the outfit on its own is not overwhelming and works well with the model. however as for the ehad accesories i feel those could be taken down a tone, as its hard to see what it is to be exact. as well as the two tails (correct me if one isnt a tail) i feel doesnt make much sense and crowdes the back of the model. overall what could be improved is simply just knowing what to keep, and what to remove. sort of like a funnel system. you pick 5 things that could be removed, and then keep 2 things you love. then you get rid of the rest. that on its own could help open up the model a lot more. overall its a very well designed model but its just too crowded i think. i would put it probably in C Tier as there are a lot of features that work very well together. ^^
I definitely agree that they were rude about it, but I also agree with their placement. I don't like what later comments implied: that they owe'd apologies to everyone they placed in D-tier. Some designs are just bad, and I think its disengenuious to want to force people to lie about something like that when it was stated that there was a tier list from the beggginning. They should have given actual critique, mind you, not just an "ew no D tier" response, for sure. But I also think that a lot of Vtubers just throw their designs into these tier list streams hoping to catch some extra eyes on them without knowing the personality or vibe of the actual streamer themselves and it can often lead to situations like this, where a more callous personality type rubs someone with a "we must all hold hands" mindset the wrong way. Again, not saying these vtubers were not nasty, they were, but just adding that in this saturated community people shjould learn that putting yourself up for something like a tier list can always lead to you being judged as below average or bad, and that is something you have to be aware of and okay with if you submit to these streams.
I don’t particularly find the critique valuable beyond “don’t stick 5 designs together” which true that’s a very busy model which makes it visually unappealing to me. Could have done better actually describing that. Also way to many people being reviewed at once to critique all at once. On the other hand, if some people talking shit about something you submitted humiliates you to the point you quit streaming. You weren’t going to cut it as a content creator. Medium to big content creators even the faceless ones have people shitting on them on the daily.
tbh its not a final thing but people who put "no toxic behavior" or stuff in their bio tend to be toxic in some way, just in my experience it's a bit of a red flag not an end all but a warning sign.
I'm sure you could phrase that more respectful or at least give helpful advice to make the design more readable. Only pointing out the negative isn't constructive criticism. You can't grow from that.I would tell them to maybe focus on one characteristic of their character, I don't know what animal or creature it's based off but maybe she could get rid of either the wings or the tail(s?) or reposition the tail so that the silhouette is more clear. I personally think it would still look great without the wings and the tail, it looks like a pink bear character, the outfit is really cute and the paws give the character an interesting little quirk. The shown clip of the stream seems more like something you'd do with your friends in private, not something you'd do publicly, online on a live stream in front of hundreds (no idea how big they are) of viewers.
They didn't critique, they just said "this is bad" that is not critique it's just being obnoxious and mean about designs you personally don't like. The closest thing to critique that poor person got was "there's too much going on" and they barely even said that and explained nothing about how to improve that or what they would do differently. Also I think a vtuber model needs to be critiqued on how it looks in action not just design, cause a busy model can look amazing when animated and that is the purpose of them. The irony of the two least creative designs I've seen in vtubing in a long ass time saying that is "critique" when all they said was that they thought it was bad and didn't even explain why, just like y'all...... Really??? Got some nerve talking about other peoples designs like that when their designs are about as generic "sexy anime girl" as you can get. Mão Mão has a personality showing in their design past extremely generic "sexy" themes. If the only personality your design has is "sexy" then you have missed the mark and shouldn't be trying to advise anyone of what they can do better for their designs.
I remember watching a similar scenario like this, involving a dragoness vtuber submitting her design in a Smash or Pass. One of the judges on the panel went "Pass" and lambasted the design for not having specific features and told her to "fuck off". The judge got blasted for that.
Most people don’t know how extreme the vtuber fans seem to be and people forget that not everyone knows and come from different content creation backgrounds were things that are OK aren’t in V tubing I’ve even seen people get in trouble for asking normal things in art commissions, but then get blasted online from Vtuber art commissions creators sadly even though these are perfectly normal and other art forms to ask I miss the days when Vtubing was all about making friends and having fun that all changed when the corpus attacked changing the Vtuber culture in the En inside forever destroying the once peaceful culture of kindness, acceptance, and friendship
idk, they don't look all that similar to me, beyond both being dolphin/cats and wearing similar outfits. vtubing is an inherently referential industry. everyone takes queues from each other. lots of vtubers sound extremely similar, especially in the loli scene. i think it's just that Lily is really popular right now, and has a lot of intensely parasocial fans. i think the way lily herself handled it was correct. normal market forces will handle inferior imitations, and lily herself loses nothing from someone sounding or looking like her, unless they're indistinguishable. but her fans went from calling out similarities to being jerks real quick, just like always happens when people feel justified to be *ssholes on the internet, and the bandwagon rolls on. character isn't defined by how you treat people you like, but by how you treat people you don't like. being an a-hole in defense of someone you like doesn't make it justified. it just makes you an a-hole doing a good deed.
This was a nice repeat of what happened to another VTuber a few months ago. Lots of people should not be critiquing others honestly because they don’t know what an art critique is.😢
The only thing she could take out of it was: too cluttered/way too much going on on the model, which I gotta agree, it rlly overstimulates my brain looking at but other than that it's absolutely adorable and I love the overall vibe and cutesy style her model has got going for it. _I normally see very mature sexy lookin models so these ones are a nice alternative._
Constructive criticism is the way to go and you should at least motivate why the design isn't good in a friendly manner and what to improve. These VTubers who did the bashing had quite generic models.
Honestly love the first picture of the model, the second one seems a bit packed full and I'm not quite sure where to look at but that can be something that could be pretty easily "fixed" (dont really like that word in the context but couldnt think of a different one) and one thing to say aswell a still image of a Model always seems different to the actually moving model I dont know hiw her tail for example moves so I wouldnt be able to say if maxbe it flows really well with the whole model. But overall I think the model is really cute, I love the wings and the paws they are my favourite.
while the model is indeed way too busy and could use some tweaks to the design placing it into the d-tier without a reason or critique is extremely harsh. though personally on my critique i will say that the hoodie's color scheme and the wings and tail work extremely well together however my only take away from this would be possibly the tail and how it's positioned when showing in the face forward 2d style and that it's hard to tell if its one or two tails and personally the design is a bit to busy and hard to focus on one thing without being distracted by the other elements in this design most i can say is either making the tail smaller or positioning it in a way where people viewing it in a head on perspective can tell it's actually one tail and not two. It is also the persons own choice how many elements they want in there design how each element works is how easily it can be dissected by a viewer a busy model also doesn't necessairly mean it's a bad model just the creator wanted there model to be different from the other models and the design is just way to busy cause there viewers can not focus on one exact element.
After seeing my comment on Twitter pop up here I just wanted to say using pre made models is absolutely valid, it just felt ironic given that they are "critiquing designs" with no experience or skill to back it up!
i totally get your sentiment! i had to add a segment in here too to clarify that i also believe it's totally valid to use premade models! there's so many pretty and affordable premades out there :)
These ladies just tore someone down, they did not critique or offer any positive points or guidance. It was not critiquing it was an attempt to grill people. Another person I watch, Squiiji, does more positive vtubing critiques where she points out good, and parts that she believes could be altered- and she draws on the references to show her alteration ideas for improvement. It can be done well!
Why I think those people would behave that way cause ‘oh they can just tune it out since it’s not a ‘real’ critique and they could just not care about it since other people think that we are in the wrong, but we’ll keep doing it cause people can just tune us out’. When in reality people are not the same and what they both need is just a wake up call that not everyone is as ‘woke’ as them and learn to be considerate.
They have balls to say shit like "too much going on" when their model look like x10 weird nsfw art slapped together with 0 vision on what model they want besides "hot lady"
OOF premade models are saving my LIFE for wanting to go back to streaming. I dont think its necessarily wrong for someone with a premade model to do critiques or "rate your model" type streams. But you need to understand that when you're doing that YOUR words have impact on the person you are critiquing. And i dont think they either were aware of that, or they just didnt care. The fact that they didnt even go through WHY they thought it was D tier except going "omg its WAY too much". Disgusting. Nasty pick me girl fuckin behavior. People ask for critiques to better their creations or what ever is being Critiqued. I personally liked the design of her model. I think its a really cute idea. It is how ever super busy and i think some aspects could be toned down, or taken out all together. But i loved the bloody rilakuma type claws going on and the pastels. The idea is very cute and i hope mao pins how she wants her model to look and gets it done cause id love to see it fully finished
i've never understood things like.. rate my charas/avatars/vtubers. like i understand some people might want some positive critique and criticism but i think it gives too much room for people to just be assholes and bullies about things. idk what's about to be said but rating people's sonas on a scale is just mean (and immediately going D TIER) like... what. (this is a common thing on app i wish were regulated cos it could've been fun for vtuber outreaching called Reality app or something where it's basically Vtuber Lite in the sense that it already tracks ur 'model' but it's a gacha system avatar dress up app that has live capabilities (that are very unregulated and most of it is NSFW despite the fact that it allows such a young audience threshold) and it was common for people to invite others in their lives to rate their avatars/models) also? telling the other to 'read the post' like... HONIES. the 'cringe' uwu talk is SO COMMON PLACE in vtuber culture like? stop acting like ur above people having a uwu - sona so many people do that?! who were the losers rating this shit again? i wanna block them so i never have to see them LOL OH THE MEAN GIRL QUIT? i mean nothing of value was lost imo. u get on live and act like an ass u deserve some kind of repercussions. if u can't handle the critique that it makes u quit, maybe think about ur actions before u put it on the internet forever.
the apology ticks me the wrong way, coz ure supposed to properly address to the person you're apologizing to but her wording are all addressing to those who watches the issue - it's like putting on a front face just for everyone to see that she's 'really' sorry - which is not a good approach if u r truly sincere with ur apologies
No that's cab she's just pretending she ain't sorry so she know what she did wrong and she know exactly what she did 🤦🏾♂️ and I know exactly what she was doing she was just trying to get everything all over with
Btw Seira is using a pre-made model you can get off of booth pm a JP website with vtuber/3d modeling resources, so the fact that the person giving critiques didn't even design their own model but uses a premade is just...yikes
3 minutes into the video, but already the "critiquers" are the ones in the wrong. there is such a big difference between genuine criticism and just straight up shitting on someones model. i personally thing the design is adorable, though just a bit over cluttered for a model, because vtubers are sonas that others may and will draw, so keeping it simplified is always a better option, HOWEVER, you can't just say you're going to critique the design just to then immediately throw it into a D-tier (which i also think is super dumb, why would you do that if not just to further humiliate the creators of the models...) and tell them to get it off the screen because of how "bad" it is?? that's just straight up a fucked up thing to do. that is someones persona, they SEE THEMSELVES as that character you just completely dissed just because you think its not good...
To say that people who use pre-made models or assets have no standing to discuss character design is silly, not everyone who does character design can 3D model. There is a lot, especially on the character design front, that can go into modifying a pre-made model. When you are limited by combining pre-made assets that can force people to use some clever character design tricks to achieve what they want without the ability to 3D model. Additionally, most people will have a design beforehand and find assets that can be altered to match it, rather than just picking an asset and running with it as their design. These two women were needlessly catty and not offering critique of any merit or value, but we should be careful not to overgeneralize in our reactions in turn.
personally for me I find the design overly complicated but I would never be so disrespectful about it
yes, it's one thing to have a personal opinion which we all have! and it's another to be super mean about it :(
its not even tht bad, it's biggest issue is clarity with the shapes and colors, a lot of them bleed into each other and it makes it hard to see, but it's something easily fixable
@@vamosfreddi I agree with this!
@@katliente they were rude for no reason it truly makes no sense, they could of explained what they didn't like about the design rather than instantly shutting the conversation down by saying D tier
true critic would be to explain why it feels like there are two tails when in reality is only one, they could have said that the tails should have been placed more horizontally to the model and on the botton so that it doesn't feel so out of place, and talk about the colors, that although cute on the model, they superimpose due to being light pastel colors, pink and cream don't match too well together here because they fade in with the skin tone, but maybe the orange on the wings does, maybe adding that orange to the clothes instead of cream could work, and the wings instead of orange, gold... I think I am overthinking the model...
They got a lot of nerve talking like that when their models look like alt outfits of each other. That's not critique, it's just bullying.
i know one is a model from booth so idk what their credentials are
NAH THAT WAS MY FIRST THOUGHT TOO WHEN I SAW THEM
One of them uses a premade vtuber lol not even an actual model so worsee! (no offense for premade vtubers, i am one myself) Im just saying as they are talking like they even be having their own stuff but they dont even. At least Mao has her own model, her own unique model and its so cute!
@@zakuraroseVTit is an “actual” model, it just means they didn’t put effort into working with an artist to design it themselves.
@@md-fi7zt This. I thought it's a well known Indie or a mama or Indieshojo (lol). But nope, just two nobodies.
My god, it's like high school in the vtuber sphere.
What do you mean "It's like"? This stuff are way too common and so are cliques which one would be disappointed to find out are real outside of high school and the occasional pencil pusher office job
**Looks at Nijisanji EN** You're right.
AHEM AHEM... **niji en**
There is a motive why, when a vTuber cease to stream for any reason, they call it "graduation" ^^
I just saw this floating around Twitter and shared my thoughts there already. They never properly explained why the design was D Tier or what could have even been improved to make it better. It was just dickish mean girl behavior. Not a design critique in the slightest… Hopefully Mão Mão won’t let this situation get to them.
They did say too much stuff going on. That's legit critique, the model is way too busy.
Tho had they added specifics of what to remove or change to make it better may not have come across as humiliating.
@@Utrilus Simply stating they had "too much" stuff isn't a critique - that's a personal opinion. Same with calling it D Tier. There's nothing constructive about it to qualify as a critique.
Critiquing involves stating specifically what you think it's wrong with it. What counts as too much? What elements could make it appear more seamless or visually appealing? It also involves acknowledging the strong points of something and what shouldn't be changed for the sake of balance. If there's no proper feedback, it's not a proper critique.
@@CozyCabbit Critique is on a spectrum. Something simple as the face is off is valid too.
So saying the image is too busy is valid as well. It's more in the line of a general audience level of critique rather than a professional character designer.
Ur exactly right
As someone who uses a premade model, I respect those who make their own models/design their own models. Trashing someone just because /you/ don't like their design is peak bully behavior.
I agree with you, I also use a premade model at the moment while working to design my own its not easy not just to design but to find the right artist to bring your vision to life.
A tier-list isn't a form of constructive criticism
that design was very cute it just needs refining, they're nuts
Plus! Even if there was a design that wasn’t so good, it never deserves this kind of horrible commentary
This is just bullying, NOT critique
I thought it was absolutely adorable too and it seemed real 80's moe in design choice. I just think it may have been overloaded with accessories which is not the end of the world for a model and probably took so much effort to make. I'm surprised that's the one that was bullied.
I would like to add that Mao was not the only one who got negative feedback. Myself and some other vtubers got negative feedback about their designs. I posted the clip on Mao's post and I was shocked that I got so much positivity about my cosmic lolita design. It was honestly a shame that they could not think of something positive.
We did not want them to stop streaming, we just wanted them to understand that what they said was awful.
awwh im so sorry this happened to you ;-; i definitely figured that if they said this about one vtuber, there's no way other vtubers didn't also experience the same bullying from them :(
"... too much going on" said the dark elf with horns and bunny ears
It looks like the "2nd Tail" (The one to the left) isnt actually a 2nd tail. it looks like its the pattern to rig the tail into its desired shape (The actual tail on the right) as it isnt connected to the body whatsoever. Its easy to tell this person is somewhat new to templating and it breaks my heart to know they were treated so harshly. 💔
If that tail is removed, and all of the pointy bits on the real tail are colored in the same pink color (instead of alternating between gold and pink) I think it would fix almost everything with the model.
Perhaps both socks could be put on properly as well, though that isn't as much of a problem.
@@larsisaksen The sock thing is fine imo. Theres a certain fashion style they were going with.
I had the same thought! Perhaps they just grabbed that reference sheet and forgot that the other asset is still there : (
yes!! i didn't realize that until someone in my chat told me xD
Its frustrating "bully critique" is the new "norm". And its a lot of famous UA-camrs that encourage it (with lots of people calling them out, of course). We need to stop normalizing this crap.
Bully critique already exist since Internet became common thing 20 years ago. It's entering the Vtuber sphere now.
Super weird because the “bullying critique” died out in the art community YEARS ago
How the heck is it turning up now in the vtuber sphere. Just childish and immature bullies finding ways to make fun of others under the guise of “critique” so that they can make fun of unsuspecting people, just gross
Wait, dark skinned white haired elf number 512 and 885 really have the nerve to bash and critique other people's designs? The comedy writes itself.
ngl dark skin white haired elves go hard but they dont have the best/most creative designs ever i agree
A simple design can be good, but it means you didn't try to do something interesting. At least having one stand out feature that makes it distinguishable is good. And besides one of them is still using a premade so there is even less of a authority to bash the design of someone else.
More importantly, she had no creative say in the model shes using
Of course, Someone like you would point out her skin color out of everything. It's as if there's even a decent number of dark-skin vtubers.
@@yoskinny Drow/Dark elves are a fantasy race, they look like a generic version of that kind of fantasy race, thus the person is criticizing them for bashing someone else without much of an interesting design.
Only person thinking about race here is you.
The "I didn't intend" excuse is in hope that people will give them the benefit of the doubt or leniency in what they did. It becomes "they didn't mean to, don't be mean for a mistake" rather than what they actually did or the impact.
I will say I don't think the "you can't critique if-" is at all a valid stance with informal/non-professional feedback
anyone with the gift of sight can tell when something doesn't look right to them, whether it's clashing colors, hyper clutter, wonky proportions, or whatever else
these two were just unnecessarily petty over something that didn't meet their standards
true! I would just argue that the point of a critique is to receive constructive criticism that could lead to future improvements -- while some people without art background can distinguish WHY something is visually "unappealing" (for lack of a better term) to them, they may not have the tact and ability to convey HOW to make necessary changes to improve it, which is the main point of a critique!
Usually the main point is that you have the vocabulary and literacy to understand what makes it "look off" to you personally. People who don't end up getting flustered and then vomit hate out instead because they can't give a good reason or don't even know why something looks off to them.
You don't have to be an artist to critique, but you need at least some knowledge in the space to actually put things into words that are useful. Critiques are supposed to be useful and if you can't add that then you probably shouldn't comment on it.
@@whoahanant no need to repeat what's already been said, the CC elaborated and even I originally listed some things people naturally pick up on with minimal knowledge
Didn’t we already go through a recent VTuber controversy when a cow VTuber made fun of other models?
Yea and that cow got shat on by Twitter
Honestly, the model Mao Mao has is not that bad at all. There's a lot going on, but that image with the tail and its rig doesn't really show the model in the most flattering way. It's so easy to think it's two tails. Mao Mao's model is also super recognizable with how unique it is.
They jumped on a trend with no thoughts behind it.
The way everyone whipped out those receipts like it was nothing was funny
Trust me i thought they had 2 tails as well but because those "critiquers" looked at it so quickly i couldnt see what was going on. The tail on the left is just to show a straight version of their actual tail on the right. It was just a graphical design layout issue.
When I used to critique other people's writings I would do the cake method. Start with generally positive, critique, positive, critique, and so on until you typically have more positives than negatives. Finish with what you would change and why, bring up what others besides yourself may like (trends/niche/etc) then finally end on the topping, the best of what you liked.
im a huge fan of the cake method!
this is like the downside vers of Hell's Kitchen criticism
at least with ramsay, he tells contestants to improve
omg i know this stream, i submitted my vtuber on here too though i was lucky enough for them to say they actually liked my design and even gave me S+ tier. (you can actually see me in the video, i’m the second design in the top row of the unranked section, the blue nekomata.) when the vod was still up and i watched it, i can vouch that when they were talking about other designs, i did think they were being kinda harsh and making fun of the designs they didn’t like. they definitely could’ve been nicer about it, this seemed like a roast session more than actual critique!
The apology they made was SO MESSY. and the fact that there were so much ranked on d tier 💀 and the ones on d tier weren’t even that bad??
The immaturity is d-tier.
9:02 I agree with all your takes except this last one. I have been drawing since I was little. I once drew a piece that I was very proud of. I showed it around to the people I knew and I got a lot of praise for it. I showed my little sibling, who gave me a scathing review. I told them. "Who are you to say if this drawing is good or not. You don't even draw." ....their reply was. "I might not draw. But I do have eyes." ....that opened my eyes. Everyone can have an opinion and see if something looks good (in their eyes) or not. A food reviewer doesn't have to be an A tier chef. However, what these ladies were doing was not a "critique". What they were doing was bullying.
If anyone here saw the video about a model scout rating different people, that scout is absolutely how you should rate anyone by their looks.
He is extremely straightforward but you can tell that everyone who walked in there and got rated, whether they were "rejected" or "accepted" (they were asking if the scout would put the people on a high fashion show), walked out of there a little bit more confident with themselves.
I love how you're fully wrong about the 2 tails and it being 1 tail. that's a design problem! like you were saying about the silhouette. the language of the model is too complicated for some of us and things could be move, removed or swapped/changed. that confusion is TOTALLY a good constructive criticism. those 2 other vtubers were SO wrong to just out right look at it and be like, naw daw that's wack D tier
Murder without intent is “manslaughter”.
Yeah it’s hard to take it seriously when the crux of her argument is using an example that only works if there’s intent.
-Premade models
-A.I art transitions
Yeah the art department was not present during these streams lmao
i would've said "There is a lot of stuff going on, but if she likes it then i'm happy for her, she deserves to have her character look like what she wanted." I may not like it, but i won't be rude to the person who created it an loves their character
the critique they got wasnt that bad imo. not helpful. i was totally expecting a more scathing shit show on that design feedback. but its defo not nice
This reminds me of the whole Dreamneko situation awhile back when another artist and his girlfriend publicly shamed and started saying ableist insults towards her and her work.
Edit: They immediately got backlash for it by the streamer and art community. Unfortunately, one of my favorite artists joined in on the insults in their twitch chat, so that sucked for me.
Clouts a powerful drug
Ok but like, aren't the only people who were called slurs Sei and Yuki?
The front root/prefix to the whole concept of "criti~que/criti'quing" is literally critical. That doesn't mean to be disrespectful.
just a small note, nothing serious, but in terms of stuff like murder, intent 100% matters, because if you accidentally shoot someone, thats manslaughter which is bad but is not murder
2:02 Oh my goodness I was listening instead of watching and they were absolutely right it is too much, it does look like there are five designs combined into one. And even though they were kind of rude about it, which is an appropriate, she did send her model in on a tier list ranking system. I want to see how they rated other models that were sent in, because if they speak this way about everyone and that's their show then really she should have known and expected. It's like entering a roast and getting upset when you get roasted.
My philosophy when it comes to critiquing is to always point out something that works well within the piece/design, and then point out what isn’t working with solutions to make it work. Which is how a critique should be done, honestly. Not only is it helpful to know what does work, it’s also helpful to know how to fix the parts that don’t work as well!
I am a critiquer but yea I'd throw it in D tier as well. It's too much going on & the design makes no sense. However I'd still explain to her why I threw it in there
I'm confused why people are all calling it a "critique" stream. It looks like their post on Twitter said it was a "Judgement" stream and "they apologize in advance if they sound mean." That sounds like a roast stream.
OMG MY COMMENT! Surprised to see you commenting on a lot of the recent drama in the Vtuber scene. It's been very spicy recently on the twitter front, and I'll willing to always pass your current news if you want it.
If I had to critique the design in question, it would probably be color saturation for me, since it kind of muddles together with a lot of high saturation colors. So I think some color palette adjustment would take it a long way. Like your critique thread example, it's easy to actually point out things you might not like and still encourage them. I only view myself as a hobby artist though, and this very well just might be better for some people to avoid this without much art or design experience. Character design is really hard at the end of the day and not all vtubers are even created with that in mind.
I understand that this new 'trend' stemmed from the SmolLola/Lolaphin drama, but if people wanted to review designs just based on how much they like them we have Smash/Pass streams for that. Even then it's very easy to categorize those in a unique way like Mommy/Big Sister/Girl Next Door/Friend/Little Sister etc so that we're not doing weird bullying for content.
I don't think the hateful responses are helpful either. They obviously know they messed up, but nothing they do will change that.
They should admit that what they did was wrong, and that it was actually their thoughts at the moment, instead of trying to make it sound like they didn't mean it.
Owning up to their mistakes, and learning from them, is far better than running away from the problem.
The ones being angry should instead focus on supporting each other, and doing proper critiques, instead of spreading hate.
Let’s appreciate Twitter ratio hard on these bullies considering twitter is backwards logic on that site.
Bullies? It was a < 1min clip of them poorly critiquing someone in a not so polite way. Don't encourage cancel pig behaviour.
@@Subzearothese people don’t care. Cant imagine how not liking a design makes you a bully when literally these people were shouting racism and harassing these two over a design. Aint it ironic
@@ca678.4 Yeah 💯
the way they went about it was really poor, but her model is way to busy makes it look worse than it is. she just needs to scale it back a bit, but that's just my opinion, i personally would have a hard time watching her as the model is borderline an overload of just stuff.
From looking at the design it looks like someone needs to be removed or at least some stuff needs to be smaller. I think the wings (even more so six of them) and tail just clash too much, but that might be my bias that says having both a tail and wings is a cardinal sin of character design.
I'm tired of people using "critique" as a false way so they can bully others for the fun of it ...
A critique is "a detailed analysis and assessment of something", not being a nasty person.
It was a tier list stream. What exactly detailed analysts have you ever seen of a tier list stream? Furthermore you don’t need to give such a detailed analysis to critique anything. You don’t have to be a chef to know when rice is over cooked. I swear indie vtubers prove time and time and time again that can’t go a day without nothing burger drama.
Least they apologised, that's something. Critiquing without constructive criticism isn't really critiquing, most of the time, it's being a jerk. If you're genuine with it, it helps to critique your own works and get better.
Honestly, the "critique" was horrible, but the design has way too much going on, and I agree with them.
I don't understand what I'm honestly supposed to focus on in the design in general.
You missed out on something very similar that happened 6-7 months ago. There was this Vtuber who was doing a smash or pass stream with some other vtuber friends. The Vtuber hosting the collab was not the problem but it was one of her friends, a cow vtuber(sorry, cannot remember the name) who caused the drama. This one design came up and the cow started calling that vtuber's design a prissy b*tch and other things. The vtuber who was humiliated called out them and the person who was hosting the collab on twitter. The host apologized because she didn't expect that to happen and that she should have shutdown the collab when it happened. However, the cow doubled down on her shit behavior and after getting even more backlash, she did made an apology post but it was made with A.I. Then she gave more bullsh*t excuses on why she didn't give a proper apology written in her own words. Before I ended up blocking that account because I was tired of seeing it pop up on my feed, they announced that they would be going on hiatus due to mental health reasons or how I like to call it, going into hiding and hope everyone forgets in a few months.
i remember this!! the cow vtuber youre talking abt is @/Cowbellchaosvt, had to dig around and apparently they are still making disses at the vtuber that was the victim as of April of this year. such bitchy behavior.
Hard to forget something like this. Calls someone something only to turn out to be worse than they called others, how typical.
So the cow vtuber was projecting it seems
Ok but why is no one talking about the fact it took Mao Mao two weeks to say anything? Didn't the SmolLola stuff happen in that time? Something's fishy.
Why are you looking for a reason to say Mao Mao is suspicious? Are you that conspiracy-brained? Receipts have been provided, and there's a thing called "working up the courage to speak".
@@StygianIkazuchi it's also pretty common for people to get rage baited into providing followers and art. Hell, SmolLola did it successfully 3 times before anyone said anything.
They didn't even mention what the "lore" was. If they took a second to actually THINK, Mao being a Cat God would show that the design is actually really brilliant? The design reminds me of Biblically Accurate Angels and it fits well with the theme, but not a lot of people would understand that if these two don't actually SAY what the lore even is...
Which angel? Ophanim? Seraphim? Malahim? There’s about a dozen and a half angels with different designs.
On the post Mao introduced herself as an "Nya Nya uWu Zodiac Kitty" lol
I take they just did it for the trend and expouser.
They shouldn't be critiquing when they have F tier models lol
it’s so interesting seeing fleshtubers talk abt vtuber drama
one day imma make a vtuber model i stg xD
There is definitely a way to say that there are issues with the design without being mean about it. At no point did they give any constructive criticism to help improve this person's model or having anything nice to say at all. I've gone to art school where critiquing is the norm, and the way those two went about critiquing Mao's work would absolutely not fly.
Sure there are things that can be fixed due to parts of the designs competing with each other in terms of color and certain elements, but being nice goes a long way.
Like, if you cant cririque, why bother calling your stream a "critique stream", just say that you will roast people's designs or something like that, in this case people would know what they are signing for
They didn't call it a critique stream. It was a judgement stream, but because one person said she didn't receive critique everyone assumed it was supposed to be a critique stream.
@@nyxvillanueva661 even so, didnt need to act that way, Im not saying that they shouldve praised the design or anything, but normally say why they dont like it and why they put it in D tier. They acted like children who cant control theie urge to be rude
@@WaffelWuffel even still, if someone can't handle being laughed at for 20 seconds, do they really have a shot on the Internet that's full of people that will mock you over less? Be honest. They were a bit harsh, yeah, but it's not like they said the person was a bad vtuber.
Hey Nyx have some empathy
@@nyxvillanueva661 mfs when other people don't want to be humiliated by people they feell ike they can trust:
Same idea with Mao's design - Silhouette is important, it has to be concise and comprehensible and needed to immediately recognize what the character represents. If she's representing herself as a cat person with wings, she needs to rearrange some elements and if necessary, remove some elements becoz the more elements u put in ur design, the more confusing the identity of ur character gets and there's just too much to read in it.
1) Her wings could be softer or in the same shade from her major color palette so make a sense of belonging to her overall design
2) the headdress could be designed smaller or exaggerate the ears (make it bigger) to have proper contrast
3) im getting the wrong side of 'gap moe' here, too much cuteness on the dress and the tail have super sharp elements along the outline - one thing is balance, balance the frills, where u put the ribbons are, also a better color value becoz the designs on the dress all blends in into one singular design - i cant see much of the details properly
4) also the tail shape, it looks more of a squirrel than a cat's
5) when designing, its better to make with a dynamic pose, where u can show the personality of ur model to better understand how ure going to prep and rig them after
intent does matter with the scenario you gave no you wouldn’t be a murderer you would be a killer there is a difference, but I will say that is only in cases of the legal situation 99.9% of the time. Hey Siri the real world as long as you’re not doing, crimes intent, doesn’t matter
I would like to point out the word "Biases" in Seira's apology.
Bias:
"Prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair."
Let that sink in. She didn't like it from the moment she saw it because she was biased towards that design. A common rule of thumb when giving *specifically* design critiques is to *not* be biased, and the whole reason is because, as she even admitted, clouds clear judgement.
You should not critique designs when you have a bias towards certain ones. If you are going to give constructive criticism you should put that sort of attitude to the side or not do it at all. Especially when you know and actively acknowledge you are biased.
Edit: Biased no longer looks like a word to me.
Edit 2: I would like to point to ToastyBees comment in my replies because they actually said what i wanted to say with the last bit of my comment!
Bias is inherent to human thought. It is the inescapable result of lived experiences. If you have only ever had bad interactions with a certain type of person, you may have a natural bias against that type of person even if you recognize intellectually they are not all the same. The best thing you can do is recognize your biases and scale your judgement accordingly.
All that being said there is a right and wrong way to critique a stranger, and they did it the wrong way.
@@OrbObserver Exactly! This is what i was wanting to hint at with my comment towards the end but i've never been one to word things correctly.
Bias is inescapable but we do have methods to minimize it on our opinions, unbiased might not be possible but minimized bias is.
@@AtelierGod Yes! Like i told Toasty this is what i was trying to hint at at the end of my comment. Thy!
I think the reason why people say intent, is because “it wasn’t out of pure malice”, which I think is a good thing to say if you actually mean it.
Growing content creators gotta learn real quick that they can no longer be super critical of things like other content creators or indie games. You've got power now whether you know it or not, be careful!
"Critique? never heard of it" - Those two doofus' probably
I hate those non apology apologies. I'm sorry you were offended. No idiot, your words were offensive. It's not their fault they were offended.
whilst i do have to agree, there is a lot going on in the model and it can be hard to tell whats what and what goes where, it is not a D tier model. the colors work very well together and compliment each other well. i especially love the kitty paw glove thingys (i have no idea what to call them /lh). i feel the outfit is the thing that could stay the same. alongside the hair. the outfit on its own is not overwhelming and works well with the model. however as for the ehad accesories i feel those could be taken down a tone, as its hard to see what it is to be exact. as well as the two tails (correct me if one isnt a tail) i feel doesnt make much sense and crowdes the back of the model. overall what could be improved is simply just knowing what to keep, and what to remove. sort of like a funnel system. you pick 5 things that could be removed, and then keep 2 things you love. then you get rid of the rest. that on its own could help open up the model a lot more.
overall its a very well designed model but its just too crowded i think. i would put it probably in C Tier as there are a lot of features that work very well together. ^^
There’s got to be an archived version of this stream somewhere.
I personally don't disagree with the D tier verdict, but they definitely were rude as hell about it.
I definitely agree that they were rude about it, but I also agree with their placement. I don't like what later comments implied: that they owe'd apologies to everyone they placed in D-tier. Some designs are just bad, and I think its disengenuious to want to force people to lie about something like that when it was stated that there was a tier list from the beggginning. They should have given actual critique, mind you, not just an "ew no D tier" response, for sure. But I also think that a lot of Vtubers just throw their designs into these tier list streams hoping to catch some extra eyes on them without knowing the personality or vibe of the actual streamer themselves and it can often lead to situations like this, where a more callous personality type rubs someone with a "we must all hold hands" mindset the wrong way.
Again, not saying these vtubers were not nasty, they were, but just adding that in this saturated community people shjould learn that putting yourself up for something like a tier list can always lead to you being judged as below average or bad, and that is something you have to be aware of and okay with if you submit to these streams.
I love this design not everyones cup of tea but no need to be mean
I don’t particularly find the critique valuable beyond “don’t stick 5 designs together” which true that’s a very busy model which makes it visually unappealing to me. Could have done better actually describing that. Also way to many people being reviewed at once to critique all at once.
On the other hand, if some people talking shit about something you submitted humiliates you to the point you quit streaming. You weren’t going to cut it as a content creator. Medium to big content creators even the faceless ones have people shitting on them on the daily.
tbh its not a final thing but people who put "no toxic behavior" or stuff in their bio tend to be toxic in some way, just in my experience it's a bit of a red flag not an end all but a warning sign.
I dont know if anyone has already said it or you covered it but
the first commenter that you read, Sylvie, went through the same thing like a year ago
I'm sure you could phrase that more respectful or at least give helpful advice to make the design more readable. Only pointing out the negative isn't constructive criticism. You can't grow from that.I would tell them to maybe focus on one characteristic of their character, I don't know what animal or creature it's based off but maybe she could get rid of either the wings or the tail(s?) or reposition the tail so that the silhouette is more clear. I personally think it would still look great without the wings and the tail, it looks like a pink bear character, the outfit is really cute and the paws give the character an interesting little quirk. The shown clip of the stream seems more like something you'd do with your friends in private, not something you'd do publicly, online on a live stream in front of hundreds (no idea how big they are) of viewers.
They didn't critique, they just said "this is bad" that is not critique it's just being obnoxious and mean about designs you personally don't like. The closest thing to critique that poor person got was "there's too much going on" and they barely even said that and explained nothing about how to improve that or what they would do differently.
Also I think a vtuber model needs to be critiqued on how it looks in action not just design, cause a busy model can look amazing when animated and that is the purpose of them.
The irony of the two least creative designs I've seen in vtubing in a long ass time saying that is "critique" when all they said was that they thought it was bad and didn't even explain why, just like y'all...... Really??? Got some nerve talking about other peoples designs like that when their designs are about as generic "sexy anime girl" as you can get. Mão Mão has a personality showing in their design past extremely generic "sexy" themes. If the only personality your design has is "sexy" then you have missed the mark and shouldn't be trying to advise anyone of what they can do better for their designs.
My Vtuber model is my fursona. You dont like it? I didnt make it for you :) that's the attitude you need to have
I remember watching a similar scenario like this, involving a dragoness vtuber submitting her design in a Smash or Pass. One of the judges on the panel went "Pass" and lambasted the design for not having specific features and told her to "fuck off". The judge got blasted for that.
Barely said anything about it. Wasn’t that bad. This is overblown.
Most people don’t know how extreme the vtuber fans seem to be and people forget that not everyone knows and come from different content creation backgrounds were things that are OK aren’t in V tubing I’ve even seen people get in trouble for asking normal things in art commissions, but then get blasted online from Vtuber art commissions creators sadly even though these are perfectly normal and other art forms to ask I miss the days when Vtubing was all about making friends and having fun that all changed when the corpus attacked changing the Vtuber culture in the En inside forever destroying the once peaceful culture of kindness, acceptance, and friendship
idk, they don't look all that similar to me, beyond both being dolphin/cats and wearing similar outfits. vtubing is an inherently referential industry. everyone takes queues from each other. lots of vtubers sound extremely similar, especially in the loli scene. i think it's just that Lily is really popular right now, and has a lot of intensely parasocial fans.
i think the way lily herself handled it was correct. normal market forces will handle inferior imitations, and lily herself loses nothing from someone sounding or looking like her, unless they're indistinguishable. but her fans went from calling out similarities to being jerks real quick, just like always happens when people feel justified to be *ssholes on the internet, and the bandwagon rolls on.
character isn't defined by how you treat people you like, but by how you treat people you don't like. being an a-hole in defense of someone you like doesn't make it justified. it just makes you an a-hole doing a good deed.
The day I become a V-tuber, I'm gonna do a simping tier list. Ain't NO ONE skipping love and cheers for their models.
Kat saw the 28k views and the amount of fans that are heavily engaged and interact with this and said let’s pivot 😂 which I applaud 🎉
This was a nice repeat of what happened to another VTuber a few months ago. Lots of people should not be critiquing others honestly because they don’t know what an art critique is.😢
The only thing she could take out of it was: too cluttered/way too much going on on the model, which I gotta agree, it rlly overstimulates my brain looking at but other than that it's absolutely adorable and I love the overall vibe and cutesy style her model has got going for it. _I normally see very mature sexy lookin models so these ones are a nice alternative._
Constructive criticism is the way to go and you should at least motivate why the design isn't good in a friendly manner and what to improve.
These VTubers who did the bashing had quite generic models.
Honestly love the first picture of the model, the second one seems a bit packed full and I'm not quite sure where to look at but that can be something that could be pretty easily "fixed" (dont really like that word in the context but couldnt think of a different one) and one thing to say aswell a still image of a Model always seems different to the actually moving model I dont know hiw her tail for example moves so I wouldnt be able to say if maxbe it flows really well with the whole model. But overall I think the model is really cute, I love the wings and the paws they are my favourite.
while the model is indeed way too busy and could use some tweaks to the design placing it into the d-tier without a reason or critique is extremely harsh.
though personally on my critique i will say that the hoodie's color scheme and the wings and tail work extremely well together however my only take away from this would be possibly the tail and how it's positioned when showing in the face forward 2d style and that it's hard to tell if its one or two tails and personally the design is a bit to busy and hard to focus on one thing without being distracted by the other elements in this design most i can say is either making the tail smaller or positioning it in a way where people viewing it in a head on perspective can tell it's actually one tail and not two. It is also the persons own choice how many elements they want in there design how each element works is how easily it can be dissected by a viewer a busy model also doesn't necessairly mean it's a bad model just the creator wanted there model to be different from the other models and the design is just way to busy cause there viewers can not focus on one exact element.
Not gonna lie, when I first saw the title I thought the one who stopped streaming was the one they critiqued.
Ngl they kinda right, thats A LOT for one character, however not them being unnecessarily bitchy was a big no
After seeing my comment on Twitter pop up here I just wanted to say using pre made models is absolutely valid, it just felt ironic given that they are "critiquing designs" with no experience or skill to back it up!
i totally get your sentiment! i had to add a segment in here too to clarify that i also believe it's totally valid to use premade models! there's so many pretty and affordable premades out there :)
These ladies just tore someone down, they did not critique or offer any positive points or guidance. It was not critiquing it was an attempt to grill people. Another person I watch, Squiiji, does more positive vtubing critiques where she points out good, and parts that she believes could be altered- and she draws on the references to show her alteration ideas for improvement. It can be done well!
I love the model! Sure it's busy, but that can be cleaned up. Lots of models have toggles to turn of big elements during streams
Why I think those people would behave that way cause ‘oh they can just tune it out since it’s not a ‘real’ critique and they could just not care about it since other people think that we are in the wrong, but we’ll keep doing it cause people can just tune us out’. When in reality people are not the same and what they both need is just a wake up call that not everyone is as ‘woke’ as them and learn to be considerate.
They have balls to say shit like "too much going on" when their model look like x10 weird nsfw art slapped together with 0 vision on what model they want besides "hot lady"
OOF premade models are saving my LIFE for wanting to go back to streaming. I dont think its necessarily wrong for someone with a premade model to do critiques or "rate your model" type streams. But you need to understand that when you're doing that YOUR words have impact on the person you are critiquing. And i dont think they either were aware of that, or they just didnt care.
The fact that they didnt even go through WHY they thought it was D tier except going "omg its WAY too much". Disgusting. Nasty pick me girl fuckin behavior.
People ask for critiques to better their creations or what ever is being Critiqued. I personally liked the design of her model. I think its a really cute idea. It is how ever super busy and i think some aspects could be toned down, or taken out all together. But i loved the bloody rilakuma type claws going on and the pastels. The idea is very cute and i hope mao pins how she wants her model to look and gets it done cause id love to see it fully finished
i've never understood things like.. rate my charas/avatars/vtubers. like i understand some people might want some positive critique and criticism but i think it gives too much room for people to just be assholes and bullies about things. idk what's about to be said but rating people's sonas on a scale is just mean (and immediately going D TIER) like... what.
(this is a common thing on app i wish were regulated cos it could've been fun for vtuber outreaching called Reality app or something where it's basically Vtuber Lite in the sense that it already tracks ur 'model' but it's a gacha system avatar dress up app that has live capabilities (that are very unregulated and most of it is NSFW despite the fact that it allows such a young audience threshold) and it was common for people to invite others in their lives to rate their avatars/models)
also? telling the other to 'read the post' like... HONIES. the 'cringe' uwu talk is SO COMMON PLACE in vtuber culture like? stop acting like ur above people having a uwu - sona so many people do that?! who were the losers rating this shit again? i wanna block them so i never have to see them LOL
OH THE MEAN GIRL QUIT? i mean nothing of value was lost imo. u get on live and act like an ass u deserve some kind of repercussions. if u can't handle the critique that it makes u quit, maybe think about ur actions before u put it on the internet forever.
the apology ticks me the wrong way, coz ure supposed to properly address to the person you're apologizing to but her wording are all addressing to those who watches the issue - it's like putting on a front face just for everyone to see that she's 'really' sorry - which is not a good approach if u r truly sincere with ur apologies
No that's cab she's just pretending she ain't sorry so she know what she did wrong and she know exactly what she did 🤦🏾♂️ and I know exactly what she was doing she was just trying to get everything all over with
Btw Seira is using a pre-made model you can get off of booth pm a JP website with vtuber/3d modeling resources, so the fact that the person giving critiques didn't even design their own model but uses a premade is just...yikes
3 minutes into the video, but already the "critiquers" are the ones in the wrong. there is such a big difference between genuine criticism and just straight up shitting on someones model. i personally thing the design is adorable, though just a bit over cluttered for a model, because vtubers are sonas that others may and will draw, so keeping it simplified is always a better option, HOWEVER, you can't just say you're going to critique the design just to then immediately throw it into a D-tier (which i also think is super dumb, why would you do that if not just to further humiliate the creators of the models...) and tell them to get it off the screen because of how "bad" it is?? that's just straight up a fucked up thing to do. that is someones persona, they SEE THEMSELVES as that character you just completely dissed just because you think its not good...
There are good things gs to say about the design. Like those floating 6 wings are clever. I like the giant hands w claws too.
what meaningful design critique could they possibly offer, having such basic models themselves? 😭
"You can critique and not be a dick" Well said!
To say that people who use pre-made models or assets have no standing to discuss character design is silly, not everyone who does character design can 3D model. There is a lot, especially on the character design front, that can go into modifying a pre-made model. When you are limited by combining pre-made assets that can force people to use some clever character design tricks to achieve what they want without the ability to 3D model. Additionally, most people will have a design beforehand and find assets that can be altered to match it, rather than just picking an asset and running with it as their design.
These two women were needlessly catty and not offering critique of any merit or value, but we should be careful not to overgeneralize in our reactions in turn.
Good on you for standing up for that artist i agree with you. I feel bad for that Vtuber i hope they don't give up forever i hope they come back.