As a live2d rigger, the bangs aren’t the biggest problem, you can still rig them, albeit with more effort and less hair movement. I’d say a bigger problem would be how the eyes are separated, the lack of back / back side hair, and the lack of separation from left to right parts. The artist clearly tried but probably had no experience in drawing live2d models. For any aspiring live2d artist who wants to avoid this, I suggest learning the basics of Live2d VTuber rigging by rigging a simple model as it can help you imagine what would need separating.
Even with tutorials you can still get it wrong. It's just gonna happen, and is part of the learning process. I forgot to separate the whites/shadows/eyebrows once and you'd think it's not an issue but the software *literally* needs to compute every. little. object, or you'll end up looking very crosseyed lol. Mari Yume, Kira Omori, and Chupuko were my references and are pretty good at explaining the process of cutting the model up and why. Hair can clip into other things, bone-breaking physics, and overall stiffness, especially in expressions is a pretty common pitfall, so learning those kinds of defining features is very important. ((My older model had a huge chunk of hair like this one and because I didn't have a lot of layers my hair ended up looking straw-like -or maybe grass blade like lol- and was *too* flat. Though my rigger still did an awesome job despite that! I wish I could still commission them but they went on hiatus a while back)).
Can agree. You only need to separate the middle bangs, side bangs, and back if you're going really basic. You can do like what she said, but she was exaggerating that EVERY STRAND needed to be separated. Most of the time it's chunks of hair separated, not individual strands (I've never seen models with each INDIVIDUAL STRAND separated.) Everything else was pretty atrocious though lol
This is so sad. It really looks like the artist didn't understand the assignment, because the art is so good. Maybe she can get the artist to work with a rigger to cut apart enough of the layers to fix it. The artist clearly just does not understand.
I'm an artist and live2d rigger! The artist did their best and I wouldn't consider this to be drama. A good rigger would have contacted the artist via the vtuber and talked them through separation (if they are unable to complete separation themselves for an additional fee) ^^ Many artists struggle with splitting, as a rigger, I expect the art to not be split 100% correctly. Part of the pricing for my rigging is to split any other pieces that I need. I hope the artist will be given the chance to learn and not be harassed by needless twitter "drama" :c
yes! i do think though, that you shouldn't "sell" a service you aren't sure you can fully execute to a reasonable degree :o or at least refund the vtuber for it ;-;
@@katliente That is the issue. They said Yeah I can do it, and couldn't do it. The sad thing is when they made each asset, they likely did make many layers while making them. But they combined them all into one layer like you would do when your finalizing a more static picture.
I'm an artist and learning rigging...there are so many tutorials on UA-cam for both splitting your art and rigging. I can see how an artist with little understanding of live2D might not know to split all the little strands, but splitting left and right, splitting the mouth... I've seen that in tutorials done in detail. There's not really an excuse not to know. It's fine to not really know how to do things properly if you're just learning it for yourself but when you're charging someone for it, you have a responsibility to deliver what you said you're doing to deliver, and to do it properly.
Managed to draw a working vtuber model on my first try by following youtube tutorials. I personally think the artist should be able to revise the art by redrawing the separated layers
Hey, what Canvas Size did u use for drawing the Model? I know a Video would probably mention that but i someday wanna try doing a Vtuber myself and I'm very curious rn!
@@HORRORSPINPAPYRUS I personally used 5120 x 6827 with 300 resolution. I just made it big to prevent the quality from dropping when model is zoomed, though. Anyway, good luck on making your vtuber model!
The artists did not know how to make a VTUBER model is the TLDR, they did not make everything as a separate layer they made a model that would be for someone doing flat 2d stuff. They made most things as one layer that should have been a separate layer. Basically the model now costs 2 times what she thought it would cost cause she needs and artists to cut up the model.
The golden rule to Live2D rigging is "if it moves independently, it needs to be a separate layer". What's pretty clear here is that this is riggable, but it wouldn't be a very good result because it would have limited motion. This is why the most expensive models, the rigs are done by the same artist (or the artist works exclusively with one rigger.) While it's possible to rig anything, the rigger would also need to be an artist and pretty much "redraw" the entire image to have it properly cut for Live2D. What tends to be a problem is that artists aren't told that that they want a "Live2D rig ready" file. This means that every part of the eye, every strand of hair, and every highlight and shadow must be on separate layers.
Your breakdown on part separation etc. was really good! TECHNICALLY this model is still riggable but like you and others said in the comments, the result wouldn't be fluid at all :( For that price I'd have expected a decent separation on bangs and such. It wouldn't be that difficult either to separate parts afterwards, just kinda tedious. But I guess it's easier to simply ghost and run with the money 😅 Btw, I really like your videos, thank you for your hard work! ❤
agree. My model is similar, even pupils are one layer just means I dont have that cute white light bounce. However the mouths... yeah that's not gonna work :( The eyes and hair problem can be fixed, but the mouth... that's tough!
As a rigger myself I don't find much issue with the hair, it will be limited in movement sure but there is no need to go strand by strand unless you WANT to go strand by strand. Less strands is easier to draw - more simple to rig while more strands are harder (separation) and more time consuming for rigging. Both methods are fine, it's just different when it comes to artists/riggers. Now the MOUTH. oh honey they did not look that up. it's not unriggable but it WILL look goofy as hell. bottom teeth are not required for many models with an anime style, but if you want to look like Amelia Watson or even like more detailed models i.e. Artgun's models then for that style it is required. Overall this model is 4/5 out of 10 when it comes to rigging. It's not unriggable in the face but I haven't seen the rest of the body layers. I wouldn't have minded separating the layers w artist's permission HOWEVER, since the commissioner has requested a refund, unless previously stated there are no refunds, the client is entitled to a full or partial refund from the artist. Don't know how this will be resolved but hoping for the best for both.
If your asking for a strand by strand model that alone would run you a pretty penny alone as on the low end it take almost 2 days to complete the way she was saying. The mouth and then Iris/Pupil's would have to be completely scarped and remade from the ground up sadly. I personally try to talk people out of bottom teeth because rigging them never looks as good as they think it will and i've had people get really mad about it after its done after I tried warning them.
Even for a lower-end model, this is not acceptable just because of the mouth they did. You don't rig vtuber mouths like that. The right thing to do here would have been to apologize and then put in the work to fix you mistake.
@@katliente Yeah you would think the original artists would hear the issue, and should still have the Original creation files and be able to go back and more easily separate the layers. But I suspect the OG artists might have deleted the working file after sending off what they had made. Why offer free art instead of just saying OH im sorry let me take that and create layers. If they had the original work file it should have been easier for them to do that. Now she has to hire another artists to chop it up that might not do a good job.
i drew and rigged my own model, what bothers me is that while the art is good, they couldve watched literally any 10-20min video on how to make layers for a vtuber model to make it functional. its a cruddy situation to be in, but PAINFULLY preventable on the artists side i feel
It was heartbreaking seeing this story on Twitter. DruillaKuma invested in a Live2D VTuber model art service only to be left with something that wasn't properly prepared for rigging. I do not know Druilla, but as a Live2D rigger, I offered help to separate this model properly for free and I am happy to say that it is now fully separated and usable. Though the art was beautiful, seeing the model art separation (or lack thereof) was frustrating. This situation highlights an important issue: those offering VTuber art services must fully understand the technical requirements for proper model separation. When this isn't done correctly, it prevents the Live2D art from being used for its intended purpose-to be rigged and brought to life. As a result, the VTuber is left with a model they can neither enjoy nor use. I wouldn't be surprised if this tainted their excitement of using this model art. I hope the artist will consider practicing more and gaining experience before offering such services again.
this happen to me where no one would rig my model or even wanted to touch my model with 3 years of streaming using this broken model because of how poorly it was cut to be able to rig it without costing me almost 2k to fix it telling me to just buy a new model. BUT you can find a artist who cuts models by cutting everything needed to be rigged and basically painting them to match your model so they're more seamless when rigged together which I did with my other model that can cost 150 to 200 dollars or more depending on how complex or bad the pre-cut model was made. if the model wasn't cut at all will cost 300-500 dollars at best. she can get someone to cut the model so it can be ready to rig a lot of people DON'T tell you this because they want to market themselves and don't want people to know of the cheaper options that they have to choose from. most riggers who do art as well can offer this option or any artist that can match the art style sometimes provides this service as well.
As someone who has done rigging and drawn vtubers, I would say the bangs r manageable and both that and the eyelashes could be chopped easily. However, this model would b super basic with the eyes, the model definitely would not be able to turn, she has no area for behind the head so when she turns she's gonna b bald, and agree with the head shape. The model's movement is already hindered by the incomplete head. The shading and line work is not separated, which again limits the models movements, and worse so would make the mouth and eyes look very odd when she turns. The worst offender is most definitely that mouth, The really only needed to draw the lips, teeth, and mouth back. The tongue would help with dimensions, tho not necessary. Edit: makes me think of a model a friend wanted me to rig but the most the artist did separation-wise was separate the shading, highlight, colors, and line work. I did my best to chop up the model, but the definition of unriggable was legit without redrawing it.
Thank you so much for making this vid talking about the situation I think you explained it very well :3 I’ve had many people make the point the model and be SALVAGED, but the problem comes down to when paying a premium price you expect the product to be done correctly and well. You Shouldn’t have to pay another person to fix their mistakes. I hope artists can learn to do research before taking on commission work so they can do it correctly. I was a bit nervous to talk about it and didn’t know if I was scammed until the lack of communication and complete ghosting. My best advice to anyone else is make sure the model mama you commission has a good portfolio of the specific kind of piece you are looking for, and for artist take the time to learn your skills before charging, and have your price be reflected on your skills and knowledge. I was very new to the community at the beginning so I didn’t know what to look out for, and when there were red flags. I hope if anything people can learn from my situation
As someone who has been rigging professionally for four years I actually dont think this separation is that bad. The mouth is not to standard BUT you can animate a mouth in live2d to switch between the vowels. I know a few vtubers who have this, notably Currypaws. My biggest concern is the hair in the back not allowing for much X rotation. The ears will also not be very expressive. I think the most important takeaway is that the artist needed to be in contact with a rigger to note their preferences for animating the model. Most riggers would turn away this model for not suiting their rigging style.
If I were that artist, I would fix it for free (instead of promising free art). As an artist, the reputation is on the line and doing it properly, learning from mistakes and becoming better would be totally worth it. Yes this is speaking from experience as an artist.
My first model I drew and rigged myself, and it turned out decent enough. It wasn't great, but it was still usable. (I updated her once I improved more and now wish to use her, but don't have the time.) I think the artist should have practiced rigging a vtuber model before deciding to try drawing one for commission, as, if they're anything like me, this would help them see what layers need to be separated and how they need to be separated.
Problem is easily fixable by cutting and pasting parts in different layers, but riggers know better than to mess with artist's files which honestly, respect. Artist didn't do research (shame) and left the client helpless when all it would cost is cutting and pasting parts and re-send the file.
It seems like knowing that you have to separate the mouth is very basic knowledge so it kinda feels like this person only did pngtubers before and tried going into vtubers thinking that knowledge was enough. Lots of people are saying that by watching a few beginners tutorials for vtubers you can understand what you have to do so it seems that this person overestimated themselves & they didn't deliver. It could've been fixed easily with a bit of time or simply compensated in a different way to make up for it but the artist just decided to not do either????? That seems pretty disingenuous to me tbh? If there's a problem on their part they should communicate about it & maybe it wouldn't have become public. But idk we don't have their communications so we don't really know more than what the vtuber tells us so maybe there's more.
I’ve rigged a few models and can split some layers myself, but it’s a lot of extra work (lashes, brows, bangs, eye parts, etc.), but the mouth was completely unusable and it looked like the model was missing a hair base behind the head (to fill any gaps made by hair animation).
The mouth "separations" gave me cold sweats. That's the biggest offender. The artist probably never made for Vtubers, for SURE. The hair is fine-ish. The middle of the bangs is okay, no need to cut EVERY SINGLE strand, but the side pieces need to be in separate tho. The eyes follow the same process. This makes me onder about the rest of the body...
I wouldn't call this 'scam' but rather just a mistake, artist probably has never draw a vtuber model and has no idea how they should be layered. That's why I always ask my clients who they plan to make rig the model arts I draw, so I can contact said artist and ask how they'd want the model to be layered (I know 3 riggers personnally and none of them layer their model the same, because they just do it differently from one another).
It’s really a shame there wasn’t communication from the artist. From my experience, a lot of v-artists and riggers are super friendly and supportive of people trying to learn. I don’t know anything about this specific situation that wasn’t in this video, but I do know that it’s always better to communicate with people than to do whatever this sad, pathetic spiral was. When you take commissions, you have the burden to communicate properly with your client. If it loses you clientele to tell the truth about your skill level, well that’s better than reaching this point. Taking someone’s money when you don’t know what you’re doing is always a bad idea.
The hair and eyelashes can be separated. Just copy, cut and paste into new layers inside Adobe Photoshop. The first problems is the eye white dots... the model will look a bit dull if they are not moving separately from the pupil. This can not be fixed without some more advanced Photoshop skills as you will need to draw upon the pupil to cover the white dots with the color of the pupil. Same with the mouth, I think the mouth is the biggest issue. The artist clearly did not look into how a Live2D model are made. The customer would have to commission a new artist here just to make a working mouth for the model 🥲if only the first artist had made some free art for the customer it would have made up for some of the grievances. The model is really cute, I hope it got fixed for rigging.
no I am so sorry if some one paid me that amount of money for a model I would made sure it was rigged and working.. then again maybe doing a half assed art piece is some thing some peoples would do but artist should make sure there art works correctly in the program it was made for...
Hi, Live2D model artist and Rigger here! Not every strand of the bangs should be a separate layer. that just creates too much work for the rigger to do. At most the bangs could be split into 3 parts, but they're also completely fine as just one whole thing. The highlights and lowlights should also *not* be on a separate layer. That's just too many layers to work with. The model featured here is mostly fine, just the left/right needs to be separated, the eyelashes separated in parts, and a "back of head" added... this is ofc only from what I can tell though. there might be more that needs to be done. The riggers could have also offered to separate the layers themselves for a small fee too instead of just saying no outright.. like srs 10 bucks at most it's very little work. ... the mouth rigging is atrocious though, there's no saving that.
I have fully drawn and rigged a vtuber model last year for free as a practice to see how it all goes into works. There is plenty of videos out there about vtuber artists and riggers explaining how to correctly layer and separate layers which is how I was able to successfully layer the model and have no issues while rigging it. Of course I have seen plenty of mistakes after the model was done when I looked back onto it a few months later but that is natural of course and it allows me to know what to fix next time I make a new model. I am just saying the sources to properly learn how to layer+ separate art for a model are out there for free and very helpful, so it’s unprofessional of them to not have done the proper research. Even an artist like myself had done the art and full rigging for free for my customer because I knew it was my first time, so things were bound to be scuffed. And it was a learning opportunity for myself, I did not want to rip off someone by charging a ridiculous amount for it. I have not had the time due to college to make models since then but vtuber model making is something I’m looking into to do after college again, even planning on making my own model for future purposes
You COULD work with the front bangs like that, the movement just won’t look good. But the side bangs… oh god the side bangs… and the eyes… and the mouth…
What I think happened is the artist came from PNG making, and tried to make a vtuber using png skills. They over priced especially if it’s the first vtuber they are making
Personally as an artist and rigger, I think it’s crazy that instead of just contacting the artists and telling them the issue and how to fix it, all this happened. If you wanted the vtuber model, just tell them what needs to be fixed or go to another artist to have them fix it if you don’t know yourself. Don’t post it on Twitter to have them get harassed, obviously. I don’t think it’s really super reasonable to ask for a refund for several hundred dollars, especially after the model is completed. Just ask the riggers what’s wrong and bring it back to the artist. It’s that simple
as someone who made my model, the layers are not quite right but the model would be easily usable with a tiny bit more separation on the part of the artist, they got very close to getting it right qwq
I appreciate hearing the advice about how to do the layering. I've been working on my own vtuber so I can learn how to rig and while I made layers, I didn't separate them quite to the extent of the explanation though I'm glad I did separate some of it correctly with the hair, arms, etc cuz I did try to do research. I'm sadly over half done so my first rig will more than likely have problems cuz I'm too lazy to fix it right now or recolor what I have done, but definitely great notes for me to update/fix it in the future ^_^
They split it up like I do when making an animation meme on Alight motion for example, so I didn’t see the problem till you talked about actually rigging it because that totally out of my realm lol.
As an animator and experience with extremely complicated TV RIGs. This is correct. most of this goes for tv rigs too except the mouths and eyes depending on the show could be less or more complicated. The More limited the assets are the harder it is to rig and harder to animate.
I'm basically good at ibispaint, i can edit the bangs so they are separated! And also make the head bigger and stuff If someone has a problem with that i might open commissions to fix their stuff
While you're correct that the artist should separate certain layers especially the left and right should be it's own layer, you don't really have to separate EVERYTHING as you've mentioned. the side bangs can be a layer of it's own without needing to separate each strand, it'll take more effort for the rigger to make it look good after that but it won't make it 'impossible' to rig. That being said, this art done is very lacking in terms of it's layer separations and certain other elements (like back hair and side hair that's on the head itself definitely still needs to be drawn) and it does look like unless it's returned to the artist to be separated/do some extra drawings that it's not able to be rigged as is. In any case, you can still make a model look pretty good with the rigging even if you don't separate every strand of hair, you just have to be smart on how to separate them.
I’ve never rigged models but i have made animations as well as tweeting and when i first started out i made this mistake and didn’t seperate the left and right eyelashes and I suffered when animating. Once this artist learns how to separate correctly I think they’ll be able to make really nice models
I don’t draw vtubers but I do tweeting animation and your 100% correct! We can get away with a bit more in animation but if I want a more complex animation you have to separate everything. The mouth and eyes are probably the worst because you can’t rig blinking or talking correctly.
As a rigger as well, even though this was 5 months ago. Me and my friend were surprised people still turned it down cause SO MANY OF THESE THINGS are SUCH EASY FIXES. L and R? Easy fix, it can be done in Live2D itself too! The main problem is the mouth, literally it. This is not even close to an unriggable model. An unriggable model is like missing back parts, A body all still put together (not separated.), etc etc. For the price, I would usually expect more separation (even over separation is better!). But its not absolutely the end of the world.
I once made a VTuber model for very cheap (30 dollars). The art was great! The problem came with the separation. Since it was my first model I priced it very cheap so people could buy. What I didn’t know was how terribly I separated the eyes and hair. I didn’t know it was wrong and the guy never asked to be refunded so it was left at that. It’s been over a year and I still feel terrible.. but I have worked on a rather simpler model and it actually works! One day I’ll fix that guys model.
So basically, the artist took on a job they don't know exactly how to do which ended up with the client getting a useless model and is going to cost more money to fix it. So uh, I'm guessing they got greedy and didn't bother to do any research
live2d rigger here i was like how bad can it be and kept going oh. OH OH DEAR. btw you don't need to separate every strand it causes too much work so chunks works best and you notice that most models aren't separated by strand but by chunk
It sounds like it should take months to years to create a model, and if you dont understand it first, learn then advertise that you can offer this service, they should be given an apology or a refund
as someone who tried live2d etc. etc. the bangs may be the problem if you really want a flowy movement, they can be stiff but still move if thats the look you desire. tho, i think one of the biggest problems is the nonexistent separation of left to right, which i learned by my own mistakes lol. And the mouth is really something.. as you said, it would be okay for a pngtuber, as their character jumps from one image to another, but the mouth wouldnt work as good for a vtuber model where all the movement is supposed to be flowy.
other than the mouth and the right and left thing this is mostly how I would split a model if I were to rig it after my free trial of L2D ends because I don't want to pay for it. I have used the completely free version before to make okay looking models for personal use so if its like a really budget level rigger it is definitely savable. The issue is the relatively large price for the ammount of splitting that was done and the fact that the riggers they are going to are clearly experienced people without the layer limits of free L2D
Hi Katliente!! I just wanted to add quickly, you can totally be someone's *first* client for a vtuber model and have it work out, as long as you're cautious and potentially have a relationship with said artist previously! I was the first model my Model Mama did, but I had an excellent relationship and experience with her previous to her dipping her toes in - I knew she'd make sure she did everything the correct way and I honestly couldn't be happier with the result. It's not to say everyone would be as lucky, but it's totally possible if you're careful, to potentially be someone's first model, have it turn out amazingly well and help someone out in their career too in the process ❤
It's not easy (lol) but with the proper time and patience, you'll get it in no time! It's nice to see people bringing it up, as it is not always so simple. And if your question is, "should I separate-" YES. The answer is yes lol. The more details, the more unique and prettier it will be, trust me! You can do it ❤ But yes, also, guys, PLEASE put examples of your work! Especially recent ones, cause you might have improved, and your most recent should be at the forefront. I see a lot of people that do comms forget this and its a bit sad since they get commissioned less despite the improvement (also sharing it on platforms like this has worked pretty well, I've seen. Even if its just a video capture from your phone ^^)
Depending on the price and complexity you are going for, it does not need to be split as much as you are describing. A lot of my personal models have had larger chunks of hairs just be one layer, and as long as you know how to work the mesh it will look fine. and if they aren't paying for premium and not expecting you know, high hiiiigh end rigging it would be fine. The mouth is definitely wrong though. I could be a good way to show how you want the mouth to move, but you'd still need the mouth layers separated.
As someone who made the art and rigged a live2d vtuber The first one i've made wasn't made for live2d rig (it wasn't cut properly) and rigging this will result in a stiff movement
As a live2d rigger, this physically hurt me lmao Honestly it’s not completely impossible to rig but it would be very difficult, time consuming, and turn out very bad😭 though the mouth may not be possible at all
While I have no experience I'd like to put forward the notion of getting clients that want simple aspects, things like the little dog in the tea cup as an example, plenty of things to worry about and such but also much less going on making it ideally easier to accomplish, may not get many clients but I've seen plenty of vtubers that have a little cutie avatar they use from time to time so the market is there :)
the vtuber could have the model manually cut up into layers but then they'd be out even more money which isn't fair. i dont think this amount of drama was needed but it should be said that no one should be charging almost $700 for live2d when they still are learning how to do it. i paid $120 for my model by an artist who had only completed 2 other models before mine and was still learning and building a portfolio. i got such a cheap price because the artist knew there may be mistakes and she wasn't experienced so charging more would be potentially scamming me if there were major issues. my model had zero issues during the rigging process and is absolutely stunning.
As a rigger and artist this is somthing that is esily solveable with more sepration/ post editing. this isnt un rigable but will take some time to seperate.
Question: I heard you say in your video that you need to separate the hair highlights too, but I’m trying to figure out why. I don’t understand why you would need to do that, doesn’t the hair highlights move with the hair?
Sometimes if you use a clipping layer you can make the hair look more dynamic, so like keeping the highlight in place no matter how the head moves to replicate real lighting
I love my rigger, my model was done correctly she just wanted some of her details cut more so she could make them all move on their own 😂 they was her preference though. We got it all figured out
I think the artist tried but didnt fully know what to do. I think this could be fixed like they could try drawing again or separating things but idk what programs they use because sometimes separating things is really easy and sometimes its nearly not possible
It kinda reminds me how one person gave me a model that was consisting of 15 layers and. Just to understand how much of was it unrigable, it was a furry model and it didnt have anything else behind mouth. Its practically was just a mouth line. I of course declined Tbh some stuff could be easily separated even without artist with bangs its more harder of course. Still i dont respect that much. Mouth yes indeed isnt drawn right
I mean the layers are even weird for just a normal PS picture in my opinion. There's no folders or grouping. Looks like someone who might have drawn in traditional methods that just learned the basics of PS but never learned proper practice.
as some one that checked how to do a live2d model it is easy to mistake how to split parts I made 7 models to learn it and it is easy to understand if you ever use a 3d modeling software cause it is easier to rig if parts that moves is split. and I downloaded a psd file of a vtuber model and checked how they layered and it was a half body and showed me the way to split it fast.
I’m working on getting a commission vtuber of my furry oc ect ect, but each I do it on Twitter, I get flood gated of “artists” that would want to do a commission art of the vtube idea that I want , but there portfolio is full of art thefts or poor quality
In the context of rigging using live2d, It's riggable, it can still be tracked, and it will move with same procedure like the emotes. But it will not have that 3d effect or "alive" looking. At to extent, some parts can be adjust with a heavy mesh and manually move parts that should be separated or extended but that would be too time consuming and tiring for a rigger. I think the artist had already some parts done alright but he or she just needs more practice and experimentations in both slicing the parts and rigging before accepting any clients. OR if you are unsure of your slicing, I guess it's a good practice to rig them to yourself first. Vtuber Artists would not bother to rig, if they are confident with their illustration and slicing.
Hot take... Person: Buys something that is normally 3k+ for 650$ Also person: I feel scammed... It did not turn out how I wanted! I understand that the artist should not have been selling if they did not understand how models work. At the same time, the vtuber should have known as well. A red flag should have gone off regarding that price tag. Unless that artist has been shown doing work like that for THAT low, this is not a scam to me.
Being in the entertainment industry to do videography one of things you have to do if you are jumping into a profession as a new artist, film maker, etc that as no portfolio behind them of the actual medium you're working with you'll have to start off gaining clients and doing jobs in a professional atmosphere for free to gain client trust. When I started out, one of things I had to do to build a portfolio with a client I was working with for the first time is offer all the first projects completely free with no charge. That way the client doesn't' feel miffed if something goes wrong do to inexperience and lack of wallet. The best thing is you establish a networking contact with a client and then any second or third job afterwords needs to be paid. This is the biggest thing that must be taken into account when your portfolio is empty. In my case when I started working filming bands doing live performances and I didn't have much experience in an uncontrolled setting. All I had is personal pet projects i'd done on my own in my own home. But this wasn't good enough as a portfolio because it didn't display the genre or atmosphere for filming and editing I would be doing. Thus since my portfolio was empty for this type of work and I didn't have any clients to back up my name since they weren't well known, I had to start doing jobs for free. I was forced to rebuild my portfolio.
this model isn't a complete loss, it can still be salvaged, it will take a lot of work to unmerge the neccesary parts but it's way better than starting from scratch
omg?? thats... wow.. its really not that hard to use google tbh idk why the artist would sell commissions before watching even just 1 tutorial video...
artist being inexperienced is not the issue cuz everything comes with learning and practice however artist should refund the money preferably exact amount the client paid and not ghost them this client might not expose them publicly but they will not suggest this artist to their friends privately and will suggest not to commission them instead which will hurt this artist so u can forgive and be understanding of artist's inexperience but still know that they did wrong by ghosting their client and to those saying "oh they r struggling artist and we should support them blah blah!" no. a person was scammed from their money which is not ok
I am so overly cautious about breaking up models I draw that MULTIPLE RIGGERS have told me I can chill and collapse some of them XD I don't get how you can do this bad at breaking up a model unless you did no research at ALL for it
I remember when I was scammed out of my first VTuber model :'3 Ahhhh those were the days.... Now the artist rebranded and is on VGen scamming more people! WAHOO!!♥
Honestly the model isn't completely unfixable. With a bit of work it can be adjusted. i don't know why the artist would offer free art instead of spending that time to fix the model
Actuallt, at least some left/right can just be separated via rig or just be separated by the rigger before rig Lately I've been getting bored of teaching beginner artists how to make their layers so I just correct them myself, I also add some extra layers for a certain rigging trick too so most artist doesn't know how to anyway ~w~ I've seen worse models and I think fixing this one to be riggable is not that much work as far as I saw in your video But then sometimes I sent it back to the vtuber/artist so that they can see how I did it
As a live2d rigger, the bangs aren’t the biggest problem, you can still rig them, albeit with more effort and less hair movement. I’d say a bigger problem would be how the eyes are separated, the lack of back / back side hair, and the lack of separation from left to right parts. The artist clearly tried but probably had no experience in drawing live2d models. For any aspiring live2d artist who wants to avoid this, I suggest learning the basics of Live2d VTuber rigging by rigging a simple model as it can help you imagine what would need separating.
It goes deep to the pupils -_-
Even with tutorials you can still get it wrong. It's just gonna happen, and is part of the learning process. I forgot to separate the whites/shadows/eyebrows once and you'd think it's not an issue but the software *literally* needs to compute every. little. object, or you'll end up looking very crosseyed lol. Mari Yume, Kira Omori, and Chupuko were my references and are pretty good at explaining the process of cutting the model up and why. Hair can clip into other things, bone-breaking physics, and overall stiffness, especially in expressions is a pretty common pitfall, so learning those kinds of defining features is very important. ((My older model had a huge chunk of hair like this one and because I didn't have a lot of layers my hair ended up looking straw-like -or maybe grass blade like lol- and was *too* flat. Though my rigger still did an awesome job despite that! I wish I could still commission them but they went on hiatus a while back)).
i think doing tweening could help, it has helped me think of things in a more 3d way.
Fr like bangs is the most easy part to rigg lol, i'm not a l2d artist but i like to tween/animation my art and the step Its similiar
Can agree. You only need to separate the middle bangs, side bangs, and back if you're going really basic. You can do like what she said, but she was exaggerating that EVERY STRAND needed to be separated. Most of the time it's chunks of hair separated, not individual strands (I've never seen models with each INDIVIDUAL STRAND separated.) Everything else was pretty atrocious though lol
"how could a model be unriggable?"
oh.
OH.
OH NO
SAMEE BROO I was so confused when I clicked the video but then I was in SHOCK
This is so sad. It really looks like the artist didn't understand the assignment, because the art is so good. Maybe she can get the artist to work with a rigger to cut apart enough of the layers to fix it. The artist clearly just does not understand.
I'm an artist and live2d rigger! The artist did their best and I wouldn't consider this to be drama. A good rigger would have contacted the artist via the vtuber and talked them through separation (if they are unable to complete separation themselves for an additional fee) ^^
Many artists struggle with splitting, as a rigger, I expect the art to not be split 100% correctly. Part of the pricing for my rigging is to split any other pieces that I need.
I hope the artist will be given the chance to learn and not be harassed by needless twitter "drama" :c
yes! i do think though, that you shouldn't "sell" a service you aren't sure you can fully execute to a reasonable degree :o or at least refund the vtuber for it ;-;
The drama is that the artists offered some free art as compensation for the mix up and has not delivered.
@@katliente That is the issue. They said Yeah I can do it, and couldn't do it. The sad thing is when they made each asset, they likely did make many layers while making them. But they combined them all into one layer like you would do when your finalizing a more static picture.
I do think that the issue was that they didn’t refund them or anything
I'm an artist and learning rigging...there are so many tutorials on UA-cam for both splitting your art and rigging. I can see how an artist with little understanding of live2D might not know to split all the little strands, but splitting left and right, splitting the mouth... I've seen that in tutorials done in detail. There's not really an excuse not to know. It's fine to not really know how to do things properly if you're just learning it for yourself but when you're charging someone for it, you have a responsibility to deliver what you said you're doing to deliver, and to do it properly.
Drama was like the first minute and then rest is a guide on how 3D models are drawn
LOL i have to explain it to those who don't know xD
☝🤓 it's 2.5D or Live2D, not 3D
it's not 3d, 3 dimensions give something volume rigging is 2d
@@katlienteyou’re my best friend ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
people saying it’s not 3d like it matters
Managed to draw a working vtuber model on my first try by following youtube tutorials. I personally think the artist should be able to revise the art by redrawing the separated layers
Hey, what Canvas Size did u use for drawing the Model?
I know a Video would probably mention that but i someday wanna try doing a Vtuber myself and I'm very curious rn!
@@HORRORSPINPAPYRUS I personally used 5120 x 6827 with 300 resolution. I just made it big to prevent the quality from dropping when model is zoomed, though. Anyway, good luck on making your vtuber model!
I have done alot of vtuber models, and i can agree. The bangs shall be seperat so they can move around when the model is going to turn left and right.
The artists did not know how to make a VTUBER model is the TLDR, they did not make everything as a separate layer they made a model that would be for someone doing flat 2d stuff. They made most things as one layer that should have been a separate layer. Basically the model now costs 2 times what she thought it would cost cause she needs and artists to cut up the model.
As someone who rigged a model a long time ago, seeing the mouth layers made me physically recoil
The golden rule to Live2D rigging is "if it moves independently, it needs to be a separate layer". What's pretty clear here is that this is riggable, but it wouldn't be a very good result because it would have limited motion. This is why the most expensive models, the rigs are done by the same artist (or the artist works exclusively with one rigger.) While it's possible to rig anything, the rigger would also need to be an artist and pretty much "redraw" the entire image to have it properly cut for Live2D.
What tends to be a problem is that artists aren't told that that they want a "Live2D rig ready" file. This means that every part of the eye, every strand of hair, and every highlight and shadow must be on separate layers.
Your breakdown on part separation etc. was really good! TECHNICALLY this model is still riggable but like you and others said in the comments, the result wouldn't be fluid at all :( For that price I'd have expected a decent separation on bangs and such.
It wouldn't be that difficult either to separate parts afterwards, just kinda tedious. But I guess it's easier to simply ghost and run with the money 😅
Btw, I really like your videos, thank you for your hard work! ❤
agree. My model is similar, even pupils are one layer just means I dont have that cute white light bounce. However the mouths... yeah that's not gonna work :( The eyes and hair problem can be fixed, but the mouth... that's tough!
The tediousness of Re Layering the model is what basically adds another few hundred dollars to the model.
As a rigger myself I don't find much issue with the hair, it will be limited in movement sure but there is no need to go strand by strand unless you WANT to go strand by strand. Less strands is easier to draw - more simple to rig
while more strands are harder (separation) and more time consuming for rigging.
Both methods are fine, it's just different when it comes to artists/riggers.
Now the MOUTH. oh honey they did not look that up. it's not unriggable but it WILL look goofy as hell. bottom teeth are not required for many models with an anime style, but if you want to look like Amelia Watson or even like more detailed models i.e. Artgun's models then for that style it is required.
Overall this model is 4/5 out of 10 when it comes to rigging. It's not unriggable in the face but I haven't seen the rest of the body layers. I wouldn't have minded separating the layers w artist's permission
HOWEVER, since the commissioner has requested a refund, unless previously stated there are no refunds, the client is entitled to a full or partial refund from the artist. Don't know how this will be resolved but hoping for the best for both.
If your asking for a strand by strand model that alone would run you a pretty penny alone as on the low end it take almost 2 days to complete the way she was saying. The mouth and then Iris/Pupil's would have to be completely scarped and remade from the ground up sadly. I personally try to talk people out of bottom teeth because rigging them never looks as good as they think it will and i've had people get really mad about it after its done after I tried warning them.
Even for a lower-end model, this is not acceptable just because of the mouth they did. You don't rig vtuber mouths like that. The right thing to do here would have been to apologize and then put in the work to fix you mistake.
i agree! I want to call it an honest mistake, but them not rectifying the art problems is the issue imo :o
@@katliente Yeah you would think the original artists would hear the issue, and should still have the Original creation files and be able to go back and more easily separate the layers. But I suspect the OG artists might have deleted the working file after sending off what they had made. Why offer free art instead of just saying OH im sorry let me take that and create layers. If they had the original work file it should have been easier for them to do that. Now she has to hire another artists to chop it up that might not do a good job.
i drew and rigged my own model, what bothers me is that while the art is good, they couldve watched literally any 10-20min video on how to make layers for a vtuber model to make it functional. its a cruddy situation to be in, but PAINFULLY preventable on the artists side i feel
This is really sad because it’s clear that the artist did their best and worked really hard on the piece.
It was heartbreaking seeing this story on Twitter. DruillaKuma invested in a Live2D VTuber model art service only to be left with something that wasn't properly prepared for rigging. I do not know Druilla, but as a Live2D rigger, I offered help to separate this model properly for free and I am happy to say that it is now fully separated and usable. Though the art was beautiful, seeing the model art separation (or lack thereof) was frustrating. This situation highlights an important issue: those offering VTuber art services must fully understand the technical requirements for proper model separation. When this isn't done correctly, it prevents the Live2D art from being used for its intended purpose-to be rigged and brought to life. As a result, the VTuber is left with a model they can neither enjoy nor use. I wouldn't be surprised if this tainted their excitement of using this model art. I hope the artist will consider practicing more and gaining experience before offering such services again.
this happen to me where no one would rig my model or even wanted to touch my model with 3 years of streaming using this broken model because of how poorly it was cut to be able to rig it without costing me almost 2k to fix it telling me to just buy a new model.
BUT you can find a artist who cuts models by cutting everything needed to be rigged and basically painting them to match your model so they're more seamless when rigged together which I did with my other model that can cost 150 to 200 dollars or more depending on how complex or bad the pre-cut model was made. if the model wasn't cut at all will cost 300-500 dollars at best. she can get someone to cut the model so it can be ready to rig a lot of people DON'T tell you this because they want to market themselves and don't want people to know of the cheaper options that they have to choose from. most riggers who do art as well can offer this option or any artist that can match the art style sometimes provides this service as well.
As someone who has done rigging and drawn vtubers, I would say the bangs r manageable and both that and the eyelashes could be chopped easily. However, this model would b super basic with the eyes, the model definitely would not be able to turn, she has no area for behind the head so when she turns she's gonna b bald, and agree with the head shape. The model's movement is already hindered by the incomplete head. The shading and line work is not separated, which again limits the models movements, and worse so would make the mouth and eyes look very odd when she turns. The worst offender is most definitely that mouth, The really only needed to draw the lips, teeth, and mouth back. The tongue would help with dimensions, tho not necessary.
Edit: makes me think of a model a friend wanted me to rig but the most the artist did separation-wise was separate the shading, highlight, colors, and line work. I did my best to chop up the model, but the definition of unriggable was legit without redrawing it.
Thank you so much for making this vid talking about the situation I think you explained it very well :3 I’ve had many people make the point the model and be SALVAGED, but the problem comes down to when paying a premium price you expect the product to be done correctly and well. You Shouldn’t have to pay another person to fix their mistakes. I hope artists can learn to do research before taking on commission work so they can do it correctly. I was a bit nervous to talk about it and didn’t know if I was scammed until the lack of communication and complete ghosting. My best advice to anyone else is make sure the model mama you commission has a good portfolio of the specific kind of piece you are looking for, and for artist take the time to learn your skills before charging, and have your price be reflected on your skills and knowledge. I was very new to the community at the beginning so I didn’t know what to look out for, and when there were red flags. I hope if anything people can learn from my situation
As someone who has been rigging professionally for four years I actually dont think this separation is that bad. The mouth is not to standard BUT you can animate a mouth in live2d to switch between the vowels. I know a few vtubers who have this, notably Currypaws. My biggest concern is the hair in the back not allowing for much X rotation. The ears will also not be very expressive.
I think the most important takeaway is that the artist needed to be in contact with a rigger to note their preferences for animating the model. Most riggers would turn away this model for not suiting their rigging style.
If I were that artist, I would fix it for free (instead of promising free art). As an artist, the reputation is on the line and doing it properly, learning from mistakes and becoming better would be totally worth it. Yes this is speaking from experience as an artist.
Even if the artist was a beginner vtuber maker why didn’t that person get a refund ? That’s inexcusable
My first model I drew and rigged myself, and it turned out decent enough. It wasn't great, but it was still usable. (I updated her once I improved more and now wish to use her, but don't have the time.)
I think the artist should have practiced rigging a vtuber model before deciding to try drawing one for commission, as, if they're anything like me, this would help them see what layers need to be separated and how they need to be separated.
Problem is easily fixable by cutting and pasting parts in different layers, but riggers know better than to mess with artist's files which honestly, respect. Artist didn't do research (shame) and left the client helpless when all it would cost is cutting and pasting parts and re-send the file.
i love how it start with drama but the rest end up becaming guide on how to draw live 2D
5:28 there cat meowing in the background
It's sad because it looks beautiful, the artist should have done more research before taking on the project
It seems like knowing that you have to separate the mouth is very basic knowledge so it kinda feels like this person only did pngtubers before and tried going into vtubers thinking that knowledge was enough. Lots of people are saying that by watching a few beginners tutorials for vtubers you can understand what you have to do so it seems that this person overestimated themselves & they didn't deliver. It could've been fixed easily with a bit of time or simply compensated in a different way to make up for it but the artist just decided to not do either????? That seems pretty disingenuous to me tbh? If there's a problem on their part they should communicate about it & maybe it wouldn't have become public. But idk we don't have their communications so we don't really know more than what the vtuber tells us so maybe there's more.
I’ve rigged a few models and can split some layers myself, but it’s a lot of extra work (lashes, brows, bangs, eye parts, etc.), but the mouth was completely unusable and it looked like the model was missing a hair base behind the head (to fill any gaps made by hair animation).
The mouth "separations" gave me cold sweats. That's the biggest offender. The artist probably never made for Vtubers, for SURE. The hair is fine-ish. The middle of the bangs is okay, no need to cut EVERY SINGLE strand, but the side pieces need to be in separate tho. The eyes follow the same process. This makes me onder about the rest of the body...
I wouldn't call this 'scam' but rather just a mistake, artist probably has never draw a vtuber model and has no idea how they should be layered. That's why I always ask my clients who they plan to make rig the model arts I draw, so I can contact said artist and ask how they'd want the model to be layered (I know 3 riggers personnally and none of them layer their model the same, because they just do it differently from one another).
It’s really a shame there wasn’t communication from the artist. From my experience, a lot of v-artists and riggers are super friendly and supportive of people trying to learn. I don’t know anything about this specific situation that wasn’t in this video, but I do know that it’s always better to communicate with people than to do whatever this sad, pathetic spiral was.
When you take commissions, you have the burden to communicate properly with your client. If it loses you clientele to tell the truth about your skill level, well that’s better than reaching this point. Taking someone’s money when you don’t know what you’re doing is always a bad idea.
The hair and eyelashes can be separated. Just copy, cut and paste into new layers inside Adobe Photoshop. The first problems is the eye white dots... the model will look a bit dull if they are not moving separately from the pupil. This can not be fixed without some more advanced Photoshop skills as you will need to draw upon the pupil to cover the white dots with the color of the pupil. Same with the mouth, I think the mouth is the biggest issue. The artist clearly did not look into how a Live2D model are made. The customer would have to commission a new artist here just to make a working mouth for the model 🥲if only the first artist had made some free art for the customer it would have made up for some of the grievances. The model is really cute, I hope it got fixed for rigging.
no I am so sorry if some one paid me that amount of money for a model I would made sure it was rigged and working.. then again maybe doing a half assed art piece is some thing some peoples would do but artist should make sure there art works correctly in the program it was made for...
We are never out of vtuber drama.
Hi, Live2D model artist and Rigger here! Not every strand of the bangs should be a separate layer. that just creates too much work for the rigger to do. At most the bangs could be split into 3 parts, but they're also completely fine as just one whole thing. The highlights and lowlights should also *not* be on a separate layer. That's just too many layers to work with.
The model featured here is mostly fine, just the left/right needs to be separated, the eyelashes separated in parts, and a "back of head" added... this is ofc only from what I can tell though. there might be more that needs to be done.
The riggers could have also offered to separate the layers themselves for a small fee too instead of just saying no outright.. like srs 10 bucks at most it's very little work.
... the mouth rigging is atrocious though, there's no saving that.
I have fully drawn and rigged a vtuber model last year for free as a practice to see how it all goes into works. There is plenty of videos out there about vtuber artists and riggers explaining how to correctly layer and separate layers which is how I was able to successfully layer the model and have no issues while rigging it. Of course I have seen plenty of mistakes after the model was done when I looked back onto it a few months later but that is natural of course and it allows me to know what to fix next time I make a new model. I am just saying the sources to properly learn how to layer+ separate art for a model are out there for free and very helpful, so it’s unprofessional of them to not have done the proper research.
Even an artist like myself had done the art and full rigging for free for my customer because I knew it was my first time, so things were bound to be scuffed. And it was a learning opportunity for myself, I did not want to rip off someone by charging a ridiculous amount for it.
I have not had the time due to college to make models since then but vtuber model making is something I’m looking into to do after college again, even planning on making my own model for future purposes
Clicked for drama, stayed for the tecnical explanatoin of how vtuber models are made
You COULD work with the front bangs like that, the movement just won’t look good. But the side bangs… oh god the side bangs… and the eyes… and the mouth…
Her Cat In Back Ground Meowing
That's good to know I'm trying to go png first, vtubers sound like a mountain of work
What I think happened is the artist came from PNG making, and tried to make a vtuber using png skills. They over priced especially if it’s the first vtuber they are making
This is extremely fixable as long she still have the RAW backup files before they merge those layers together.
Personally as an artist and rigger, I think it’s crazy that instead of just contacting the artists and telling them the issue and how to fix it, all this happened. If you wanted the vtuber model, just tell them what needs to be fixed or go to another artist to have them fix it if you don’t know yourself. Don’t post it on Twitter to have them get harassed, obviously. I don’t think it’s really super reasonable to ask for a refund for several hundred dollars, especially after the model is completed. Just ask the riggers what’s wrong and bring it back to the artist. It’s that simple
as someone who made my model, the layers are not quite right but the model would be easily usable with a tiny bit more separation on the part of the artist, they got very close to getting it right qwq
I appreciate hearing the advice about how to do the layering. I've been working on my own vtuber so I can learn how to rig and while I made layers, I didn't separate them quite to the extent of the explanation though I'm glad I did separate some of it correctly with the hair, arms, etc cuz I did try to do research. I'm sadly over half done so my first rig will more than likely have problems cuz I'm too lazy to fix it right now or recolor what I have done, but definitely great notes for me to update/fix it in the future ^_^
I love how clear and detailed your videos are! Very helpful
They split it up like I do when making an animation meme on Alight motion for example, so I didn’t see the problem till you talked about actually rigging it because that totally out of my realm lol.
As an animator and experience with extremely complicated TV RIGs. This is correct. most of this goes for tv rigs too except the mouths and eyes depending on the show could be less or more complicated. The More limited the assets are the harder it is to rig and harder to animate.
I'm basically good at ibispaint, i can edit the bangs so they are separated! And also make the head bigger and stuff If someone has a problem with that i might open commissions to fix their stuff
While you're correct that the artist should separate certain layers especially the left and right should be it's own layer, you don't really have to separate EVERYTHING as you've mentioned. the side bangs can be a layer of it's own without needing to separate each strand, it'll take more effort for the rigger to make it look good after that but it won't make it 'impossible' to rig. That being said, this art done is very lacking in terms of it's layer separations and certain other elements (like back hair and side hair that's on the head itself definitely still needs to be drawn) and it does look like unless it's returned to the artist to be separated/do some extra drawings that it's not able to be rigged as is.
In any case, you can still make a model look pretty good with the rigging even if you don't separate every strand of hair, you just have to be smart on how to separate them.
I’ve never rigged models but i have made animations as well as tweeting and when i first started out i made this mistake and didn’t seperate the left and right eyelashes and I suffered when animating. Once this artist learns how to separate correctly I think they’ll be able to make really nice models
There’s no way I just got an ad of you talking about a twitch overlay thing before the video started, that’s insane 😭
and I wanna say that you can still rig this model cause of the major parts being separate. but it will be simple and not worth 500 dolars.
I don’t draw vtubers but I do tweeting animation and your 100% correct! We can get away with a bit more in animation but if I want a more complex animation you have to separate everything. The mouth and eyes are probably the worst because you can’t rig blinking or talking correctly.
As a rigger as well, even though this was 5 months ago. Me and my friend were surprised people still turned it down cause SO MANY OF THESE THINGS are SUCH EASY FIXES. L and R? Easy fix, it can be done in Live2D itself too! The main problem is the mouth, literally it. This is not even close to an unriggable model.
An unriggable model is like missing back parts, A body all still put together (not separated.), etc etc. For the price, I would usually expect more separation (even over separation is better!). But its not absolutely the end of the world.
I once made a VTuber model for very cheap (30 dollars). The art was great! The problem came with the separation. Since it was my first model I priced it very cheap so people could buy. What I didn’t know was how terribly I separated the eyes and hair. I didn’t know it was wrong and the guy never asked to be refunded so it was left at that. It’s been over a year and I still feel terrible.. but I have worked on a rather simpler model and it actually works! One day I’ll fix that guys model.
So basically, the artist took on a job they don't know exactly how to do which ended up with the client getting a useless model and is going to cost more money to fix it. So uh, I'm guessing they got greedy and didn't bother to do any research
live2d rigger here i was like how bad can it be and kept going oh. OH OH DEAR. btw you don't need to separate every strand it causes too much work so chunks works best and you notice that most models aren't separated by strand but by chunk
It sounds like it should take months to years to create a model, and if you dont understand it first, learn then advertise that you can offer this service, they should be given an apology or a refund
as someone who tried live2d etc. etc. the bangs may be the problem if you really want a flowy movement, they can be stiff but still move if thats the look you desire. tho, i think one of the biggest problems is the nonexistent separation of left to right, which i learned by my own mistakes lol. And the mouth is really something.. as you said, it would be okay for a pngtuber, as their character jumps from one image to another, but the mouth wouldnt work as good for a vtuber model where all the movement is supposed to be flowy.
Actually you don't need to separate them that much, you can see Kureiji Ollie model. She looks fine even if her bang is not separate.
other than the mouth and the right and left thing this is mostly how I would split a model if I were to rig it after my free trial of L2D ends because I don't want to pay for it. I have used the completely free version before to make okay looking models for personal use so if its like a really budget level rigger it is definitely savable. The issue is the relatively large price for the ammount of splitting that was done and the fact that the riggers they are going to are clearly experienced people without the layer limits of free L2D
Shout out to @Ryce_EN who drew a model and learned how to rig it from scratch in the span of four months.
As someone who watches Dru a lot this was heartbreaking to hear!
agreed
Hi Katliente!! I just wanted to add quickly, you can totally be someone's *first* client for a vtuber model and have it work out, as long as you're cautious and potentially have a relationship with said artist previously!
I was the first model my Model Mama did, but I had an excellent relationship and experience with her previous to her dipping her toes in - I knew she'd make sure she did everything the correct way and I honestly couldn't be happier with the result. It's not to say everyone would be as lucky, but it's totally possible if you're careful, to potentially be someone's first model, have it turn out amazingly well and help someone out in their career too in the process ❤
It's not easy (lol) but with the proper time and patience, you'll get it in no time! It's nice to see people bringing it up, as it is not always so simple. And if your question is, "should I separate-" YES. The answer is yes lol. The more details, the more unique and prettier it will be, trust me! You can do it ❤
But yes, also, guys, PLEASE put examples of your work! Especially recent ones, cause you might have improved, and your most recent should be at the forefront. I see a lot of people that do comms forget this and its a bit sad since they get commissioned less despite the improvement (also sharing it on platforms like this has worked pretty well, I've seen. Even if its just a video capture from your phone ^^)
Depending on the price and complexity you are going for, it does not need to be split as much as you are describing. A lot of my personal models have had larger chunks of hairs just be one layer, and as long as you know how to work the mesh it will look fine. and if they aren't paying for premium and not expecting you know, high hiiiigh end rigging it would be fine. The mouth is definitely wrong though. I could be a good way to show how you want the mouth to move, but you'd still need the mouth layers separated.
As someone who made the art and rigged a live2d vtuber
The first one i've made wasn't made for live2d rig (it wasn't cut properly) and rigging this will result in a stiff movement
omg Im actually a dru fan, since like late 2022-early 2023 and never thought she woukd get talked about on your channel lol
As a live2d rigger, this physically hurt me lmao
Honestly it’s not completely impossible to rig but it would be very difficult, time consuming, and turn out very bad😭 though the mouth may not be possible at all
While I have no experience I'd like to put forward the notion of getting clients that want simple aspects, things like the little dog in the tea cup as an example, plenty of things to worry about and such but also much less going on making it ideally easier to accomplish, may not get many clients but I've seen plenty of vtubers that have a little cutie avatar they use from time to time so the market is there :)
honestly this is very easy to fix, you just cut the parts in an art program and stuff then it can be rigged
the vtuber could have the model manually cut up into layers but then they'd be out even more money which isn't fair. i dont think this amount of drama was needed but it should be said that no one should be charging almost $700 for live2d when they still are learning how to do it. i paid $120 for my model by an artist who had only completed 2 other models before mine and was still learning and building a portfolio. i got such a cheap price because the artist knew there may be mistakes and she wasn't experienced so charging more would be potentially scamming me if there were major issues. my model had zero issues during the rigging process and is absolutely stunning.
As a rigger and artist this is somthing that is esily solveable with more sepration/ post editing. this isnt un rigable but will take some time to seperate.
Question: I heard you say in your video that you need to separate the hair highlights too, but I’m trying to figure out why. I don’t understand why you would need to do that, doesn’t the hair highlights move with the hair?
Sometimes if you use a clipping layer you can make the hair look more dynamic, so like keeping the highlight in place no matter how the head moves to replicate real lighting
@@kedamono8616 ohhh I see thank you!!
I love my rigger, my model was done correctly she just wanted some of her details cut more so she could make them all move on their own 😂 they was her preference though. We got it all figured out
Am… am I losing it, or was there a cat meowing in the background?? 5:27
There was
Or maybe we're both losing it 😭
I occasionally hear a cat meowing in her background 😭 I keep thinking it's my own cats meowing for me to open the door
I heard it to!
I think the artist tried but didnt fully know what to do. I think this could be fixed like they could try drawing again or separating things but idk what programs they use because sometimes separating things is really easy and sometimes its nearly not possible
It kinda reminds me how one person gave me a model that was consisting of 15 layers and. Just to understand how much of was it unrigable, it was a furry model and it didnt have anything else behind mouth. Its practically was just a mouth line. I of course declined
Tbh some stuff could be easily separated even without artist with bangs its more harder of course. Still i dont respect that much. Mouth yes indeed isnt drawn right
I mean the layers are even weird for just a normal PS picture in my opinion. There's no folders or grouping. Looks like someone who might have drawn in traditional methods that just learned the basics of PS but never learned proper practice.
Who remembers those flash talking heads that follow the mouse looking up and down? Is the same principle!
as some one that checked how to do a live2d model it is easy to mistake how to split parts I made 7 models to learn it and it is easy to understand if you ever use a 3d modeling software cause it is easier to rig if parts that moves is split. and I downloaded a psd file of a vtuber model and checked how they layered and it was a half body and showed me the way to split it fast.
I’m working on getting a commission vtuber of my furry oc ect ect, but each I do it on Twitter, I get flood gated of “artists” that would want to do a commission art of the vtube idea that I want , but there portfolio is full of art thefts or poor quality
In the context of rigging using live2d, It's riggable, it can still be tracked, and it will move with same procedure like the emotes. But it will not have that 3d effect or "alive" looking. At to extent, some parts can be adjust with a heavy mesh and manually move parts that should be separated or extended but that would be too time consuming and tiring for a rigger. I think the artist had already some parts done alright but he or she just needs more practice and experimentations in both slicing the parts and rigging before accepting any clients. OR if you are unsure of your slicing, I guess it's a good practice to rig them to yourself first. Vtuber Artists would not bother to rig, if they are confident with their illustration and slicing.
Hot take...
Person: Buys something that is normally 3k+ for 650$
Also person: I feel scammed... It did not turn out how I wanted!
I understand that the artist should not have been selling if they did not understand how models work.
At the same time, the vtuber should have known as well. A red flag should have gone off regarding that price tag.
Unless that artist has been shown doing work like that for THAT low, this is not a scam to me.
Being in the entertainment industry to do videography one of things you have to do if you are jumping into a profession as a new artist, film maker, etc that as no portfolio behind them of the actual medium you're working with you'll have to start off gaining clients and doing jobs in a professional atmosphere for free to gain client trust. When I started out, one of things I had to do to build a portfolio with a client I was working with for the first time is offer all the first projects completely free with no charge. That way the client doesn't' feel miffed if something goes wrong do to inexperience and lack of wallet. The best thing is you establish a networking contact with a client and then any second or third job afterwords needs to be paid. This is the biggest thing that must be taken into account when your portfolio is empty. In my case when I started working filming bands doing live performances and I didn't have much experience in an uncontrolled setting. All I had is personal pet projects i'd done on my own in my own home. But this wasn't good enough as a portfolio because it didn't display the genre or atmosphere for filming and editing I would be doing. Thus since my portfolio was empty for this type of work and I didn't have any clients to back up my name since they weren't well known, I had to start doing jobs for free. I was forced to rebuild my portfolio.
Girl, you don't need to separate every little highlight and little dot on the model, that depends on the level of detail you want and are paying for
this model isn't a complete loss, it can still be salvaged, it will take a lot of work to unmerge the neccesary parts but it's way better than starting from scratch
omg?? thats... wow.. its really not that hard to use google tbh idk why the artist would sell commissions before watching even just 1 tutorial video...
artist being inexperienced is not the issue cuz everything comes with learning and practice
however artist should refund the money preferably exact amount the client paid and not ghost them
this client might not expose them publicly but they will not suggest this artist to their friends privately and will suggest not to commission them instead which will hurt this artist
so u can forgive and be understanding of artist's inexperience but still know that they did wrong by ghosting their client
and to those saying "oh they r struggling artist and we should support them blah blah!" no. a person was scammed from their money which is not ok
I am so overly cautious about breaking up models I draw that MULTIPLE RIGGERS have told me I can chill and collapse some of them XD I don't get how you can do this bad at breaking up a model unless you did no research at ALL for it
I remember when I was scammed out of my first VTuber model :'3 Ahhhh those were the days....
Now the artist rebranded and is on VGen scamming more people! WAHOO!!♥
I wanna say that you are top tier second monitor content while I edit :D
wish Spine could be used for the making of these characters
5:24 cat meow
Honestly the model isn't completely unfixable. With a bit of work it can be adjusted. i don't know why the artist would offer free art instead of spending that time to fix the model
ngl i did the mouth thing too, when i did my first ever art+rigging
Actuallt, at least some left/right can just be separated via rig or just be separated by the rigger before rig
Lately I've been getting bored of teaching beginner artists how to make their layers so I just correct them myself, I also add some extra layers for a certain rigging trick too so most artist doesn't know how to anyway ~w~
I've seen worse models and I think fixing this one to be riggable is not that much work as far as I saw in your video
But then sometimes I sent it back to the vtuber/artist so that they can see how I did it
am glad I didn't try to make a vtuber sheesh that's a lot of work