Oberheim Matrix 6000 MONSTER SYNTH - what SIX Oberheim Matrix 1000 sound like
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- Опубліковано 26 кві 2022
- Six Oberheim Matrix 1000 receiving on the same midi channel, slightly detuned and individually spread in panorama = Matrix 6K, an incrediibly wide and rich sounding monster synth with 36 voices and 72 oscillators.
Thanks to B. van Vugt for lending me his rackload full of Matrix 1000s !
Stacking synths really sounds like an orchestra it’s so cool!
Wonderful! Just plain magic. Like my Yamaha TX816 being able to act as 8 detuned DX7. It sounds so huge!
Don't leave out the 16 note polyphony per TX module.
Changing batteries on them is a chore.
Have matching DMP-11 mixers for mine.
KX88 also
To be honest, I prefer the sound of one unit with a little bit of reverb.
The six units together sound like the supersaw all the time.
Thanks for sharing this.
Maybe a midi device to better stagger the notes that you could finetune in pitch and timing? Seems doable. Lots of ways to go about it. I feel like his recording lost a bit with ailiasing or something.
Huh?? Check your ears dude.
I agree, the classic Matrix character gets lost in the layering to me.
That’s awesome Thanks! And here I’ve been recently considering a decadent plan of getting a second matrix 1000 to make a polychained stereo version........and then I come across this😳- well done 👍
Love it. I love custom racks.great video!
Wow! That's a massive sound. Well done!
Nice demos, man! You deserve the honor of being named a King. My Matrix 1000 sounds quite good too, only with one good Reverb and some Chorus LOL
The Matrix 1000 is so underrated… What a synth
ASTONISHING! Thanks!
Gorgeous. Rich symphonic sound. Kneel and kiss the ring of The Synth King!
The best synth sounds I ever heard was in the 80's by a looney toons engineer that had a dank studio in his garage. He played several sounds that mesmerized me. It was an Oberheim Matrix 1000 (stock sounds) MIDI layered with a Yamaha TX802 through a Lexicon Reverb.
So that's where all the mint condition M1ks are !
Wow incredible !!
I'm listening on headphones. Sounds incredible!!!
Damn, and here I am just saving up for one. 😂
Sounds huge panned with 6 running.
outstanding! even on small iphone speakers they sound enchantingly beautiful!
Awesome 👏
Well, you got me beat! I've done three at once... I think you tried what I did with panning them around a little too. What I found I liked more was using them like a JV-xxxx and setting them to different presets to form a new stacked sound.
Sounds awesome!! I have 3 of these units plus an OBXa, M6R, OBSX and Xpander. Going to hold on to the M1000's now. I have a similar setup with 5 Behringer Deepmind 12's. I have one keyboard and 4 rack mounted 12's for 60 voices 120 DCO oscillators. Stacked it sounds incredible. I should do a video on that. Love all your videos!! Cheers!!
With a video about 5 Deepmind 12 you would enter the Behringer hall of fame. Must sound insanely fat! Thanks a lot for watching my videos. More to come soon.
@@Bernd_Bruening Yes, it's actually mounted into a recessed wall in my basement studio. Two rows of Deepminds side by side with the keyboard in front. It looks very intimidating when it is all lit up. Also programmed with all GeoSynth's banks. I'm still impressed with the sound you get out of these 1000's! Take care! I'll keep watching...Cheers!
i would love to hear those dm12s together
Just moved then to my other studio with a recessed wall built just for them. I do a video soon!
I hope Tom Oberheim has seen this, because WE WANT THIS! This needs to be the next official Obie synth!
That would indeed be a great synth
Speaking of official Oberheim synths, you've probably already seen it, but in case you haven't...check out the Ob-X8. Someday I'd love to own one...
@@Johntylermusic I‘ve played the OB-X8 at Superbooth in Berlin. Actually I’m beta testing the UB-Xa. Check out the demo videos on my channel.
@@Bernd_Bruening Awesome! I would love an OB-X8 obviously...but at that price I'm settling for two Matrix 1000's for now. Any thoughts on how the UB-Xa is turning out versus the OB-X8? Can't wait for the UB-Xa as long as the price isn't too crazy!
And wow...just listened to your demo videos: it sounds like the UB-Xa is turning out incredible!
Lovely!
Thus is nuts!!!
Sure seems like we now have the definitive answer to "What's a better rackmount for classic Oberheim synth sound than the Matrix 1000?" ..... the answer is "six of them!"
Nice video, thanks.
Oh god I want one now.
Mesmerizing soundtrack
The cascade mode is indeed the 'hidden secret' of the M1000. Imho, this multiple M1000 combination is - besides a CS80 - possibly the best sounding analog one can buy. Like 25 years ago, I replaced my M12 with a similar set. Although the M1000 has less matrix modulation capability than the M12, imo a multiple M1000 setup sounds way more interesting than a single M12. I also use the Alpes Machines hardware Matrix-Ctrlr that alows you to control up to 4 Matrixes independently! (V1.20 Tauntek for fast response)
Oh my... that's... delightful
3D Matrix 6k!
Great work Sir.
good video
I have a pair of these and what I love about them is that unlike most synths, when you run 2 (or more) in overflow mode, they do NOT do the normal thing (where the first unit plays the first six notes, then subsequent notes go to the second unit). Instead it alternates incoming notes between the units, so the 1st, 3rd, 5th, etc. notes play the first unit while the 2nd, 4th, etc. play the second - so if you detune them and hard pan them, it's a bit of any adventure, especially if you play (say) 3-note chords over and over because for each chord, two of the notes will come out one side and one the other side the first time you play the chord, then it flips every other time you play the chord - VERY cool! Only bummer is that one of my units has that weird issue where the power supply makes a hum (an acoustic hum, it's not in the signal coming out of the output, you can just hear it acoustically) - wish I knew how to fix that.
The best fix from power transformer noise it’s to get white face version they are newer and I never heard noise one.
With the black face there was some fix I believe you have to replace the transformer I’m don’t remember now for sure but it’s online.
@natura808 I'm doing this right now with one of the Matrix 1000, replacing the stock power supply with a switching psu.
@@Bernd_Bruening any chance you might be willing to share where you got the switching PS from?
@@scottloiselle248 gearspace.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1006972-oberheim-matrix-1000-psu-fix-guide.html
My 1 x m1000 sounds awesome but this was superb!
Love it! Have you also tried them in cascade mode? Half the oscillators but more polyphony.
I didn’t test them in cascade mode! The goal was to create a huge sound, polyphony was not that important.
nice !!!
When YAMAHA called their rack-monster TX 816 (8x16) back in the days, I call your one Matrix-6000.
Awesome! Obviously it won't sound exactly the same, but I'm very curious to hear the same patches also through a nice chorus or two.
Indeed this wouldn’t sound the same. The M6K has got this widespread lush sound comparable to the Matrix 12 or OB-Xa.
What about phasing issues later on during the mix ?
@@Variable1000 They are detuned it's not the same exact sound on each matrix 1K
we need 6 big sky reverbs :D
Mm, It was Amazing!
This should be the mascot synth of Matrixsynth :)
Bro this sounds absolutely i n s a n e
Very nice. I seem to remember the 1000s put out a fair bit of heat any thoughts on putting a space between each unit (in a bigger case) to allow them to breath? Also I think I can hear a little note pinching? what does it sound like if you ploy chain 2 then pan them as if its 3 12 voice units?
You’re right, a bit of space between the units would certainly be better. I didn’t test different pan settings. The video was basically a one shot session and taking out the best scenes (in terms of playing).
@@Bernd_Bruening thanks for the reply, it would be interesting to hear 3x 12 note (2 units poly chained) spread over stereo, when you talk about "playing" on thing that kinda bugged me back in the day when I had a Juno (6 note) was the note pinching...I tend to like to use a sustain pedal and any long release times would result in hearing the release portion of the sound suddenly cut off when new notes were voiced.
Great video, I have a question I also have the black face model. Actually this my 2nd one, but I always seem to get the black face model that have the awful transformer hum. Did you run into this issue by chance
gearspace.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1006972-oberheim-matrix-1000-psu-fix-guide.html
The six voice limitation causes an somewhat abrupt cut of the envelope's release. I would try a composite of different patches to create something truly unique with some planning it can yield impressive results, add subtle vibrato with reverb and delay and prepare to be amazed.
wow!
Sounds awesome. As having six of these might be slightly impractical for some people, I’m wondering if a similar sound could be achieved with some chorus, delay, and algorithmic reverb?
Probably not the same
Thanks for sharing.
And what about a single Matrix-1000 with a good chorus ? 🤷♂
Will certainly sound very good, but different.
WOW! 🙂
This is absolutely crazy, though I'm not sure that more than a couple adds much before getting a bit muddy when playing all the same patch. Layering to create evolving sounds is really powerful though. The Matrix 6/6r sound a little better IMHO, especially when in unison mode. The M1000 sounds a little "boxy" played as unison. The combo of the 6+6R works well as a stereo six voice or 12 voice poly. The price of Matrix 1000s has really gone up I discovered, I sold mine recently though as I have a Matrix 6 and 6R and it didn't bring much more to the mix.
These were available for THE LONGEST TIME, day in, day out for approx $300 (on the west coast of the US anyway)… I had always passed on buying one during most of those years because they use DCOs and I was more interested in Oberheim's VCO based polysynths. Around 2013 I changed my mind and bought a Matrix 1K for $300… good thing, I'm seeing these selling now for $900 - $1,100
Unfortunately they are getting more and more expensive.
@@Bernd_Bruening - I'm embarrassed (yet willing to confess) that I've been gravely mistaken up 'til now how Oberheim's early implementation of 'poly-chain' works with the Matrix 1K.
I've known that one could chain 2-6 units together for expanded polyphony from the time these were released towards the end of the 80s… but here's where my misconception was… I thought it operated in a 'spill-over' type fashion where the additional unit(s) wouldn't be triggered to play anything until the polyphony of the 1st unit in the chain had been exceeded. It never occurred to me that 'voice assignment' would operate in a 'round-robin' fashion distributed across all units in the chain. This of course would allow you pan the output of each unit at your mixer… not as precise as panning each voice as in OB-X/Xa / OB8… but it achieves essentially the same result (as you demonstrated so well in this vid). If I had known this, I likely would have snatched up 6 of these over time as I found them when they were $300… because the result is fantastic.
@@Robert44444444 the panning per voice as used in the OB-X/Xa and OB8 is a unique feature and contributes massively to the incredibly wide and rich sound of these synth. One of the reasons why I love my OB-Xa so much. Thanks for watching my videos!
@@Bernd_Bruening - thank you for making & sharing your videos!… you have good taste in synths :-) FWIW… I have several Oberheims: OB-Xa, OB8, Xpander, Matrix 1000, and DSI OB-6. Except for the Xpander, the rest will likely go if the 'new' OBX to be announced in early June (I believe) is everything it might be… the devil is in the details ;-)
@@Bernd_Bruening I have my Prophet 10 Rev 4 (reissue) modded to do this with its 10 voices individually pan-able, same principle as the OB-8 (which I also have one of). I agree it adds a lot to the character of the synth!
Of course the 6000 sounds bigger and better, a single unit is pretty much mono, so even stacking two of them plus panning them L/R will sound bigger. Not sure if you need 6 of them, but two of them are certainly something to lust for. I was able to create samples of a pair of 1000's. Those pads sound amazing! Unfortunately prices for the Matrix-1000 will increase even more after this video :(
Holy shit!
I used to have two of them. Panned them and detuned one and of course i regret selling them. I have made a very nice video.
The goodnesses of a analog DCO.
kicking myself for not buying a stack of them 15 years ago when they were still cheap ;) ..got the one. This take on unison sounds positively orchestral.
ooooooh :) Nice.
Sounds amazing :-) I have a "M2000" and i´ve noticed a small difference in sound (playing the same preset) one is a bit more dull sounding - is this normal ?
Did you do the auto calibration?
@@Bernd_Bruening yes, did the auto calibration. btw. i am using a stereoping matrix controller and the polychainer. But the difference in sound is there.
@@holmmusic Here is another M2000+SP Programmer+SP Polychainer...
Check out if both units have the same signal level whith volume pots at max...(may be one runs 'hotter' than the other, but you are compensating the difference on the mixer's input gain)
Is it the overall tone...? Check the behavior of the voices of the 'dull sounding' one after 'init & cal'... Use, specially, patches with filter fm or great amounts of resonance. Put voice mode in 'rotate', so, playing the same note, you can notice any voice difference...
One of my Matrix had voice 1 with the 'open filter' issue... hard to notice with 95% of the patches... I had to send it twice to the tech to solve completely the problem...
Good luck...!
PS.- hey..! I forgot to mention: Midi out 2 of the Polychainer doesn't send pitch-bend data...!
Gregor fixed it on firmware 1.1 update...
@@kaiwetronic Hi - thanx for all the good suggestion :-) I have been very carefull when checking the difference - same input level, changing audio cables. I will have to do some more research.
@@kaiwetronic thanx for a lot of good tips. i will check out :-)
Is there MIDI overflow on these too?
You should make a Kontakt sample library out of this.
OMG 😮😮
If you grow 36 fingers you can polychain these with the RK006 (and it will also convert channel pressure into poly aftertouch for them) 😊
What’s the Rk006?
@@reginaldbowls7180 it’s a multi use midi/gate hub which also allows you to polychain multiple midi devices to each other
gimme three of those, three sound fat enough for each of us :-D
OR you could take a single Matrix 1000 and multitrack record it six times....
That would indeed be more accessible, but surely a different performance experience.
I have a similar setup. Agreed with what you say, but quickly changing parameters or presets is in that case no option, unfortunately.
The best way is to mix 2 matrix 1000 with the same presets in stereo. Maybe you could try the other 4 with other presets that fit. Unfortunately I only own one that I bought for a ridiculous 200$ in 1990
Aren’t you worried about heat buildup? They have fans at the back I hope.
36 voices 72 oscillators 108 envelops 😳😳😳
I had previously read that the Oberheim (DCO) Matrix line could support up to 6 engines grouped together over MIDI for either 36-note polyphony or 6-part multitimbral functionality. (It would stand to reason why the 1000 has only one output and is only monotimbral.) My comment is from 8 May, 2023, and this is the first instance I’ve come upon of it being done.
Do you think you’ll build one of your own, Synth King?
You're right, the manual describes in detail how multiple units can be stacked for more polyphony. In my video the six Matrix 1000 are set to the same midi channel. For multitimbrality however there is no stacking needed, just address the units on different midi channels.
Thank you, King.
Wouldn´t it be possible to thicken the sound of a Matrix 1000 with multiple Delays/Modulations
Basically yes, but probably with a slightly different result
My Matrix 1k has quite a bit of rumble from the fan. Is this thing super noisy? :) I don't mean the audio signal, I mean the mechanical noise.
The M1000 does not have a fan. The hum in your unit is due to the internal transformer... a very common issue on these units, but a simple fix for any tech.
@@SacSynths_Jack_Z thanks
How do you trigger them? Midi Thru or using more interfaces with various outputs?
It’s described in the manual. Midi out/thru
@@Bernd_Bruening I know how it works. My question was how you made it in this video. If you used the normal thru option it’s quite obvious that you get this sound because of very slight delays between each unit.
@@Italo_Brutalo when chaining six unit via midi out/thru the delay is probably one minor aspect. The most important aspect in my opinion are the slight differences in envelopes, tuning and panorama position.
Looks like you still have the old firmware, I highly suggest the latest upgrade.
They all have the Tauntek firmware.
When your phat is as phat as phat can be.
Ha ha, nice.
god like
How is each one panned? 3 hard left and 3 hard right?
8 +16 / 9 +15 /10 +14 o clock
Holy fatness Batman!
looking for 5 friends to go on a heist-movie type of adventure
I have 1/6th of that and that sounds great this thing sounds LUSH like rain forest
What is that patch set by the way?
These are programm changes. All sounds you hear are factory preset sounds, no editing, no fx or compression
@@Bernd_Bruening Thanks for that my M1000 has different patches to these, someone must have put custom sounds in mine
imagine the hum coming out that case
Indeed it’s quite a lot.
@@Bernd_Bruening 6x matrix vs 6x tx81z which would win haha. Great sound though the 6000, bravo :)
it's based on a synth-on-a-chip Curtis chip, the CEM3396. Funny thing is that the Sequential Prophet 08 and REV2 also are based on the same chips but renamed to PA397. Behringer (or Cool-Audio) cloned this chip too and named it V3397. Think Behringer is using that chip in the UB-Xa as wel....
i thought the SCI stuff was the CEM3397
they are ... but they are almost the same but the CEM3397 has external signal (noise/sub/wavetable) input but the biggest change is that it's now surfacemount . The CEM3397 was made for Tom Oberheim for his Marion Systems MSR-2 and later Dave Smith bought thousands of Tom since he did not use them anymore and relabeled them PA397 @@0e0
cheers. the big question is does the DSI sound like the Marion (always wanted one of those)??? I would love a side by side comparison. I have a Matrix 6 and Matrix 1000 here..maybe i'll sort out the Prophet 08 or the Rev 2 and finally answer that question. @@TheTerracide
like would the support circuitry make a huge difference in the the sound of a synth on a chip...hmmm@@TheTerracide
@@0e0 well there are always differences i am sure because the signal paths are not the same. But what i can say is that the REV2 is one of best synths ever created, the modulation options are close to infinite and the option for voice modeling (search YT) with the gathed sequencer makes it a synth i will never sell. I would probably sell my OB6 before I'll sell the REV2.
The Matrix-1000 sounds thin by itself. My Matrix-6 sounded better for unknown reasons. Stacking six with the same patch detuned could easily be achieved with effects. The real opportunity here would be to layer different patches. Just sayin'. I do appreciate your demo, it is rich sounding.
That's bizarre, considering they are the same chip (just smaller package on the 1000) making the sounds.
I never figured it out. Only explanation was higher quality components in the Matrix 6. I should have opened them up and compared signal paths and power supplies.
@@Observe-n-Learn Make sure to calibrate both synths before any tests. My M1000 sounded weird when I bought it, but after calibration it sounds excellent. Fun fact actually it has two (wide body) voice chips from Matrix 6 (via dapters) - no difference in between the voices of narrow and wide body version after the calibration.
@@DonSolaris I think I ran the cal option on it, this was so long ago. My Matrix 6 and 6R
sounded better. I think squeezing down the PS and trying to get it to fit in that 1U may have led to some component compromises. The wide and skinny dip sizes shouldn't matter if the dies were the same. My 1u rack was not a white face model and suffered from the common transformer hum. I should have kept the M6 keyboard , but sold them all. Maybe a patch to patch comparison would have clued me in, I'm usually not so picky, DCO, VCO, digital, who cares if it sounds good. Almost bought your synth BTW, but I kinda have a $2k limit on the eggs in my basket. It makes me nervous owning something expensive, ever since my Memorymoog was stolen. Thanks for chiming in, great to hear from a rock star.
@@theprogrammerrolandmc3039 Cool, now go play your VST plugin while we enjoy our Matrix synths. You happy, we happy, everyone's happy.
Really Nice. But Cherry Audio GX-80 patch Symphonic GX Strings sounds even better, I'm not kidding.
As if one weren't fat enough! drooling here ..........
Only the SynthKing could do something like this.
…now I must hear three Kawai K3m!
My friend and I are probably going to stack a few Roland MKS80s. There must be a reason why Hans Zimmer has more than a dozen of them.
This must be what Heaven sounds like.
Sounds like chorus
Then you need to tell me which chorus that is. Honestly, I don’t think any chorus can do that.
@@Bernd_Bruening any chorus, wich can clone and detuned 5 and more copies )) ... the effect is also similar to room reverb
@@Bernd_Bruening "I don’t think any chorus can do that." >>>> Can do what? Copy signal with other panorama and pitch shift / pitch mod ??? ... Most choruses can do it ) ... some of them can clone over 30 copies with different pan and pitch
You mean a pitch shifter. A room reverb is a completely different story.
@@Bernd_Bruening reverb usually has a diffusion block... it's time-shifted repeats of the signal... the chorus also repeats the signal but with modulations, making it fatter... your layering with synths also thickens the sound by repeating similar signals many times... these are all related processes with a similar psychoacoustic effect that can be achieved with different implementations. Very often, instead of a near reverb, just a chorus is used, since psychoacoustically they are very similar) (i mean very close reverb, even closer and smaller than room - when using such a reverb, they also often make the sound fatter and denser, as well as when using a chorus) ... and yes, you are right.. for the same purpose you can use many layering with pitch shifter detune ... all this will have its own different shade, but in general it is very similar psychoacoustic fx - multiple sound compaction with small differences
hai li 6 Matrix 1000 e me ne fai sentire sempre uno solo? Che senso ha? Non ho capito. Fammene sentire 6. Non 1. Bahh
Listen once again. Each time it says „now you hear only one Matrix 1000“ it’s in fact a single unit playing. The rest of the time all six units are playing.
You don't need 6 M1000's, just 1 M1000 with a TC June 60 chorus pedal...or any Roland SDE
the single matrix examples sounded better
Just use a chorus
Blasphemy! The Matrix6000 must only be controlled by an Oberheim XK Controller!!!
I wish I had one
Strange effect 1 vs 6, the clarity and bass is strongly effected with 6.
Amazing!
If I had 6 they would each be sent to a different speaker and each would have a different patch. Even if ever so slightly different. Don’t get me wrong stacking all 6 like this sounds amazing. I’d do that too but again output to separate speakers. I think this would be one of the most gorgeous surround sound experiences you could have.