Which is shitty take Joel hasn't been portrayed as soft - maybe old and slow at times but soft nah . That one added with tommy maybe but that's his brother
I’ve seen videos still calling him soft because a man would never open up to a child like he did with Ellie when he told her she is what “healed” him. When the red pill, anti woke videos have rotted your brain beyond repair.
@@mustermas Nah, Joel is super soft compared to the first game. The video game Joel had tender moments with Ellie, but he was serious, stoic, and quick to violence from beginning to end. This Joel behaved much more like a modern dramatized TV character.
The HBO series didn't focus much on action which was the gameplay in the videogame as this is why some foolishly thought joel was soft but I'm sure after watching episodes 8&9 those people are thinking alittle differently about ole joel being "soft" lol
i agree...i just saw them as some regular dudes with guns who survived this far and only there to watch the perimeter in case others showed up, not some seasoned marksmen and skilled combatants.
In an alternate universe if Joel doesn't go Joel Wick in the hospital Korey would've been ranting about tv Joel being softer than video game Joel. He was going to complain about something no matter what
Marlene has no connection to Ellie. She gave her away to FEDRA for them to raise and Ellie almost became a FEDRA officer. Ellie wouldn’t be a second thought to Marlene if she wasn’t immune.
When Ellie talked about seeing it through, she was envisioning herself being alive afterwards. If she specifically agreed to die and Joel intervened, I might disagree with Joel's choice, but as it stands I'm cool with it. Plus, I always remember that scene in the second game where Marlene ask the doctor if he'd still be willing to do the surgery if it was his daughter on the table and he refused to answer. Doctor was full of shit and a hypocrite.
@@The_Cold_Slither She makes plans for a life with Joel when it's all over. She never thought she was going to die to make a cure. The second game tries to gaslight you into thinking that's what she thought, but she never treats it as a sacrifice in the first game, or the show.
@Blerdrotic then they should have asked her beforehand instead of trying be shady and dressing it up as for the greater good. In that moment, the fireflies were no better than the average raider, who kills one person in order to help themselves and others.
Yeah, not only did the actress for Ellie's Mother bear a striking resemblance to Ellie in terms of appearance and personality (along with giving a great performance) but that actress is Ashley Johnson, who voiced and motion performed the original Ellie in the The Last of Us games. So having the original Ellie give birth to the new Ellie in the show has a lot of symbolic weight and meaning to it as well.
She use to be a child actress and actually was in the first Avengers film during the battle in New York.She was the one who got saved by Captain America in the restaurant then thanked him at the end when they were showing all the people's reactions about the Avengers
To be fair she kinda had her hands full with a rebellion....and you could look at it that she was keeping her safe by sending her to FEDRA. Though yeah a grey area. She did care about her deeply.
@@rwwilson21she never said she raised her, just that she was there when Ellie was born. and she was best friends with her mom, so Marlene still felt connected to Ellie emotionally.
@@beccazach I'm talking about this video and what the guy said in it. not to mention in the game, Marlene said she raised Ellie, when actually she didn't.
It's weird to me that Joel is considered selfish for 'dooming' humanity by killing a doctor(of dubious medical degree) and saving Ellie, but not the Fireflies for unneccessairly exposing Ellie to extreme risk by forcing her to trek across the entire country who could easily died dozens of times before they reached the hospital, just because they refused to hand her over to FEDRA who could actually made and distributed a vaccine to everyone. How were the Fireflies supposed to create a vaccine in that dank extremly unsterile hospital without dozens of labtechs or even functioning power, let alone distributed it to everyone when on foot and getting to the other side of the country where most of the survivors are? Yes FEDRA were fascists authoritarian thugs, but what alternative was there that had a chance of helping the most people?
THANK YOU!!!!! Like people Marlene put her whole plan in the hands of an IF Ellie would even make it here alive!!!! The Fireflies weren't even where they were supposed to be in the first place! So if Joel and Ellie hadn't found the map/clues, went back to Tommy... THEN WHAT? He still doomed humanity? Lol
I agree. The world has been effed up for 20 years. His decision was not selfish. ONE doctor thinking of a cure? I’d be doubtful if it were a few doctors. Humanity has devolved so much a ‘cure’ is not going to instantly take it back to 2003.
I totally get the wrong of sacrificing the fate of humanity for one girl and normally I would have smh....but after all they went through since losing his own daughter I was not mad at all and especially the way they took her and shunned him away under threat of death...I was like fk them all..get her back Joel!!!
@@darealmccoi9780 And in the game, I think they mentioned something about Ellie would have been the 11th or 12th attempt at finding a cure for the cordyceps virus. I don't even blame Joel for snatching her up out of there. Especially after the bond they formed after taking the trip together.
Joel didn't take Ellie's choice of self-sacrifice away because Ellie's choice wasn't based on self-sacrifice. She said to him that after it's done, we'll go or do whatever you want. Does that sound like someone even considering that the procedure will kill her? Morally grey as far as the world is concerned on Joel's part? Sure. Wrong in terms of what Ellie wanted? No.
I haven’t seen the episode but if it’s anything like the game Ellie would’ve wanted to die regardless because of what happened between her and her girlfriend, he absolutely took her choice away. He just assumed he knew what she wanted, hell not even that, he just didn’t want her to die
@Jake Tylenol Even so, and I know this is almost 1 to 1 with the game itself, if Marlene was so confident in that assumption, she'd have no problem waiting for her to wake up and let her choose. Again, you can argue a selfish aspect on Joel's part, but his side of it at least doesn't make that sacrificial choice FOR Ellie.
The Fireflies are the ones who took away her choice in the matter. But based on everything we know about her wishes, Joel took away her opportunity to be part of a cure. And it's totally valid for her to be suspicious and resent Joel for that. Esp because Joel's choice was partly selfishly motivated by his desire for Ellie to replace his his daughter
@@joshuahermanson341 that’s not what you’re arguing, or at least that’s not my argument. You can say that and it be fair, but at the end of the day, Ellie would’ve just agreed with her regardless, and Joel took that sacrifice away from her, on top of killing a whole hospital of people just so he wouldn’t be alone. At least those who were going to cut up this girl were doing so out of desperation and actually wanted to help the world, even if it was fucked up. Ellie had no say in the matter, but the fireflies were right, their choice was what Ellie wanted anyway
Ellie was willing to see the situation no matter what (based on her limited medical knowledge) Unfortunately no one asked her so it’s question that will forever not have a answer. Though this whole long emotional journey she proven that she is capable & mature enough to make tough choices. Both Marlene & Joel took that important choice away. I understand Joel’s action he was protecting her (I’ll probably do similar) By Joel lying to Ellie just continues what Marlene did which was take away Ellie’s personal agency. Ellie deserve the choice & truth.
Yeah, not only did the actress for Ellie's Mother bear a striking resemblance to Ellie in terms of appearance and personality (along with giving a great performance) but that actress is Ashley Johnson, who voiced and motion performed the original Ellie in the The Last of Us games. So having the original Ellie give birth to the new Ellie in the show has a lot of symbolic weight and meaning to it as well.
@@TheTonytone77 how ??? In Episode 2 he killed like 3 clickers, & in episode 4 he killed that group in Seattle. Also in Episode 1 the first shot we see of Joel 20 years after the infection is him throwing a child in fire 😭 not to mention he was selling drugs to the soldiers
@@ethanndenero9417 episode 2 he almost died killing one clicker.. Tess helped with the second one... What else did he do before episode 9 but get stabbed by one dude and cry most the season untill the finale
What Korey and Oz seem to forget, ESPECIALLY Korey, about Joel’s “softness” is that Joel and Ellie crossed the country over the course of a year. They’ve been through a ton of trauma trying to help each other survive infected, the environment, and fellow survivors who were trying to kill them. Of course it makes sense that they would form a relationship, that they would bond and that Joel would do absolutely everything in his power to protect her. He’s portrayed as much more human in the show rather than the game because we aren’t in control of him. His thoughts, emotions, and actions have to make sense as to why he is the way he is during the more quiet moments. It’s not him being “soft and jovial” it’s him being a human being.
Except they barely encountered any infected. Nor harsh environments/climates. Nor many other malicious fellow survivors other than a couple. They didn’t go through much of anything at all really.
@@ez6888 I agree, however, don’t forget that there is A LOT of growth between the characters we don’t get to see during the seasonal skips in game and in the series. We only experience what the characters go through during one-two days of that particular story beat, not the entire year itself.
Ellie thought she was going to help create a cure and live her life with Joel as her dad. She didn’t know she was going to die. To Joel, Ellie is a second chance to make things right especially since he blames himself for Sarah and Tess’s deaths
That’s a good point, she didn’t know she’d die. That being said I think we all (including joel) know she’d sacrifice herself even if she knew that’s what it would cost. Imagine choosing not to sacrifice yourself to save the world & living with that guilt the rest of your life?
@@bigpictureguys8415 We DON’T know if Ellie would give her life and it’s wrong to assume either way. She said she didn’t want to go all that way for it to be for nothing and she continued to make plans for the rest of her life. A “cure” in their world is useless where doctors are murdered in shipping containers. How viable would this alleged cure even be? Instead of doing blood work and tests the Fire Flies great plan was to kill Ellie by removing her brain. Even if a cure is made who is going to distribute it? How are they going to test it? And what good is a cure if you can still be ripped apart and people can’t be turned back to human? They didn’t even have enough electricity for the surgery but they’re supposed to make a viable cure? No guilt in saying no.
We're really complaining about a video game adaptation that so far has been very accurate to its source being "unrealistic" and too much like a video game, alright man, sure. I don't understand what alternative Korey had for that hospital scene, but he would also have to come up a whole new ending and story/theme for Part 2 as well because Joel's actions is literally the main foundation for them both.
Breh they are reviewers. That’s their job to complain. Keep in mind they’ve seen hundreds of movies and tv shows. So they seen every possible inconvenience and plotpoints imagined.
Everyone upset with Joel decision to not tell her the truth but Marlene didn’t tell her the truth neither about her having to die. Ellie only 14 and at that point she became Joel daughter and at least wanted to have some type of life no matter if it was an apocalypse 🤷🏾♂️
only ones upset are those who didn't play the game. The fact that the game ended in such a controversial way its one of the reasons it's so well remembered
@Legacysquid 062 untrue. She said she thinks she would have wanted that. But that's as an adult and after scrutinizing it over years. We'll never know what she would have done in the moment. And that's the point.
@@legacysquid0625 I think the show made it clear she would’ve chosen to sacrifice herself. It wouldn’t be a complicated moral quandary moment if she wanted to be saved
Funny detail, Laura Bailey didn't just voice Abby. She did actually voice one of the nurses in the first video game, along with a number of the incidental characters.
I loved how they played that scene where Joel kills everyone. A lesser show would’ve played it as an badass action beat, but they played it like a tragedy. Pretty brilliant
Korey is why people make bad video adaptations. How is it unbelievable that Joel would murk those dudes at the end? They nerfed the ending TO make it believable. Bad take.
It was unrealistic as hell. That being said I gave it a pass without much thought (noticed it tho) considering it’s obviously what was going to happen for the story to progress
@@jobnieloliva5358 that or he just watches so much stuff its hard to recall names...I have the same issue when I'm watching 4 or 5 things at the same time
Spoiler** It was good he did it because no one knew it would even work. I don't know if there was more evidence in the game but little justification for taking her brain was shown here. Plus if they had that theory, other ways could be found. So, right on Joel.
I agree...I mean she didn't even want to sit with them and have a hard talk about what is expected. It was just...we got her, we need to kill her, now get the fk out or we'll kill you too......I was like nahh...it's not going down like that.
I agree, because you could (or at least I could) see his face shift after Marlene mentioned how little the doctor actually knew. I think, and this is just my opinion, that he was conflicted about it, but leaning towards going along with it for a split second before she told him that. After he found out how little they were going on, he wasn't about to have Ellie's life taken away. They weren't going to kill her for practically a shot in the dark. I'd be thinking the same thing after finding that out and how she became immune in the first place. They definitely could have gotten another immune person. The fate of the world didn't rest on her shoulders alone. I'd save my daughter. I would have told her the truth, though.
Joel took out the hospital easy b/c Marlene's soldiers got killed on the journey. She says that. The Ellie/Riley episode showed us that FEDRA/Fireflies recruits are just people, not experts, these ppl in the hospital were just bare bones, amateurs. That's why the camera focuses on the dead bodies & the gravity of the inhumanity Joel has committed for selfish gain. It's very poetic, Joel losing his soul, stalking through a hospital killing civilians and I honestly thought Korey would have caught that detail. PS. After 9 episodes, it's Marlene dude. Make notes!
I was leaning against Joel at first but Angry Joe Show made a great point. The Fireflies are not good people and would’ve just used the cure as a power play instead of giving it to all of humanity indiscriminately. So with that, I’m #TeamJoel
In the game there's a missable cassette tape where Marlene vents about her decision by 'apologizing' to Anna. It serves a similar purpose as the starting scene in the episode. It IS missable though.
They missed Ellie mesmerized by the image of a deer when Joel is calling her name. They spent 1/2 a million on a bloater suit and didn't use it under the bridge, which would bring to Joel trying to save Ellie from drowning. They missed the symbolism of Joel running from people carrying Ellie like he did with Sarah running from infected. And they also missed Joel touching his watch at the ending dialogue.
I’m glad they pulled back on the amount of Super Infected. Personally, I think big action sequences would have distracted from the television version of the narrative. We only had so much time to spend with these characters and the story needed to take precedence over outrageous set pieces.
I think the problem is that since they didn't have to deal with the infected directly very often in the show, Joel going into Rambo mode made him feel OP and unrealistic. If we had seen Joel's aptitude for violence against the infected more frequently throughout the season it would have made more sense.
nah, it was shown and referred to enough to know he was a no-nonsense bad mf. Reminded me of Rick Grimes early on vs after some time and loss, he no longer played any hesitation games.
@@wilcee238 the fucck are u talking about....u move on .....joel was a biitch for 75% of the season...snapping one dudes neck and getting stabbed in the same time isnt badass dumb ass.....ellie killed more ppl in episode 8 then joel did doesnt that actually make him bad ass
I’m confused on how Joel seemed obsessed with Ellie. In watching the show, Joel progressively began to see Ellie as his surrogate child. They’ve spent months together on this journey so of course naturally he’s going to become fond of her and upon finding out what The Fireflies have to do to her… he’s going to protect her. It wasn’t obsession. It was a natural progression of love. He started out not caring for this girl and seeing her as cargo. But, through the months, and all of the losses, he now sees her as more.
Thank you. Not to mention, given the Fireflies overall behavior, I highly doubt they were gonna go around handing a cure out for free. If anything, it feels like they'd use it as a way to tip the power scale.
If that was true then there's no gray morality involved, just a mad scientist propped up by a military group experimenting on a little girl. From a meta standpoint the cure has to have a better chance of working than not otherwise the story is failing at its prime objective.
They literally beat it into your head that there’s no cure and have framed the fireflies as terrorists. Even with that, what Joel did is objectively “bad”. With the info he has and how he knows Ellie would be ok with it, he massacres the hospital. This is why he lies to her after the fact. He knows Ellie would give her life for just a chance to give a cure so people like Riley, Tess, Sam, would have hope and a chance to live. With that said. I’d do the same thing Joel did. That’s the whole point.
I would have done the same as Joel. As a father, there's no limits when you are put in that position. Yes, as a father, you always think selfishly when it comes to your kids. He saw Ellie as his daughter by this time. And OFC, he knows what he did was wrong, so he feels guilty and decides to hide the truth from her. Just a terrible predicament.
That is the real thing. Everyone doesn't not tell Ellie the truth and let her decide. Choices are made for her. Even if they told her the truth and said she had to sacrifice her life would they tell her they don't even know if it will work?
Come on now Korey, it's based off a video game. Are you really surprised Joel went straight rage mode? Now if they didn't do it, ppl would be complaining about how it wasn't like it was in the video game. You just can't win.
Re: Joel's dramatic personality shift in the opening scene. I assumed that was him overcompensating because he sensed that Ellie was off. He was trying to re-spark the fun, carefree girl he knew before her encounter with David. And he doesn't fully know what went down in the restaurant so he's doing typical dad stuff to try and win her back.
The question should be “would the procedure actually work?” I find it hard to believe that it would have. I’m sure there would have had to be tons of experiments. Even pre apocalypse scientists couldn’t find cures or vaccines after only having one specimen. So basically Ellie would have died for nothing. I agree with Joel saving her, however I don’t agree with him lying to her. I have not played the game.
Even if someone were to give it the benefit of the doubt and assume that the procedure would have worked, that doesn't even take into account the other variables. How did they plan on mass producing this vaccine, did they even have the available resources to take on such a task, the level of effectiveness, and you just know there would be anti-vaxxers. I don't blame Joel for saving her, but like you I think the main issue is that neither side cared enough to tell Ellie the truth. She should have at least been a part of the conversation, kid or not. That was what pissed me off about Marlene toward the end-she asks Joel what he thinks Ellie would do, but if she was so confident in knowing what Ellie would have done, why didn't she just be honest with her?
I agree with what a critic said several years ago. If Ellie would have sacrificed herself, there's absolutely no way that the government wouldn't use this cure to their own personal advantage and screwing over the Common Man. Oh sure, the rich, soldiers, and cops would get this, but everybody else would basically have it held over their heads.
what good is holding a cure over other people’s heads? yeah, sure, they can’t get infected, but the infected rip people apart regardless of infection status
@@dirkdelacroix5949 that's just the corrupt way the world works. A thing like that has monetary gain and the government in The Last of Us is already pretty corrupt as is.
The show didn’t bring more video game mannerisms to it,…..the game brought more real life mannerism to it,…that’s why it translated so good in the show because it was based on real life to begin with.
I totally agree and i also want to add they focused more on the characters and the story itself other than the gameplay and it makes sense because.....it's a tv series which don't have to have alot of action specifically for gameplay
I think if we look at the story as a whole, there’s a pattern that gets repeated. That pattern asks the question of what are we willing to do to just survive? And is just surviving enough if you lose your humanity? That was the point of Bill and Frank’s story. It showed something better. For many they’re willing to do anything and everything to survive. And at the end of the day it’s the innocent like Ellie that suffer and pay the price so others may live better. Looking at the world, if you think about it, it’s not the fungus that's causing all the issues. It’s the people and how they’re being absolutely terrible to one another. In the QZs FEDRA rules with an iron fist and instead of trying to better the world, they want to maintain the status quo. They want to claw back to the old world instead of building a new one. All along the journey, are people in trouble because they’re under siege by the infected? No. They’re in trouble because they’re too busy being shitty to each other instead of cooperating and dealing with the issues at hand, fascist FEDRA, revenge seeking resistance, pedo cannibal preachers. Yes the fungus brought down the old world, but people have built or found safe havens and are surviving. The fungus is a concern, but its no an imminent threat. The QZs fall because of people, not the fungus. If people came together and cooperated, they could thrive even if the fungus is still around. In a lot of ways people don’t need a cure. They just need to stop hurting each other and being selfish pricks. The fireflies say they want to get the cure to save the world, but really, IMHO, getting the cure is them procuring power. They could wield that cure like weapon deciding who lives and who dies. Suddenly people will look to them for protection, and they become like the preacher gathering a flock. Sacrificing Ellie is people willing to sell out the future to further their station in the present. What if Ellie has children and those children are immune? If that were the case, humanity would slowly acquire immunity as Ellie’s genes spread though the population generation after generation. But people are too short sighted. They couldn’t even wait a day to explore alternatives to sacrificing a child, and they didn’t even have the balls to face her and ask. They want things now and they don’t care what they have to sacrifice in order to get it. So IMHO, Joel did the right thing. He refused to sell out the future just so his present could be better. There’s an old Greek Proverb “A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit.” Well in this case the Fireflies, and most people in this world, didn’t want to grow a chestnut tree. They wanted to take the chestnuts and roast them so they could put them into their muffins.
playing the game I thought this episode was pretty weak. I did enjoy watching the beginning of Ellie's birth. I thought that was cool. However, when it came down to the climax of joel's desperate desire to find ellie before she's killed and struggle against a mini army to get to her wasn't convincing and didn't seem high-staked. He just mowed through everyone and went back to the town almost effortlessly. I didn't feel the weight of it. Actually, there was more weight in the start of the episode than at the end of it. Lastly, why even give joel panic attacks if it will never impact during his most stressful moments? As I suspected they only gave joel panic attacks to humanize as a cheap way to make him more grounded as a person. If your going to deviate from the game storyline and create character flaws or vulnerabilities have it play out through the whole story and not leave out because it's inconvenient. Like korey said best-adapted video game story but not perfect but still worth watching.
Can we all agree how weak the hospital siege was for what it could have been? Joel was far too impenetrable - I wanted to see a little bit of a struggle, and the sequence seems as though it wasn’t so congruent with his abilities in the previous episodes. It’s understandable that he’s in a state of desperation to save Ellie, but he’s not the terminator. Joel was an immense threat in the video game, but the TV show has already established different rules for him. On top of that, I feel like it wasn’t filmed or edited in a way that was as impactful as it could have been- This may just be me? All the character moments around this sequence were great though. Could have been a bit longer?
They could’ve have at least included the subway scene from the game that went more of that emotional bond Ellie and Joel have. The Firefly introduction felt more realistic in the game than in the show too. The hospital scene felt really rushed from shooting a few Firefly soldiers then bam you are in the Pediatric Surgery room with the doctor. The transition felt way too fast.
nah, we can't all agree on that. I get that it seemed a little too easy, but I'm accepting the idea that they were caught off guard and just some a-holes with guns scattered around the place to just to watch the perimeter and not skilled shooters or fighters. I enjoyed the quick and decisive no nonsense taking them out.
@@rbz1 I agree. After what Marlene told Joel, it was obvious that they were basically "winging it." Also, a bunch of the fireflies had been taken out by infected at the original meeting place, so it makes sense that there weren't that many people on watch. They'd be spread thin and may have lost some of their best fighters. So, I think it was pretty believable, all things considered.
I think it was kinda stupid for the Fireflies to kill Ellie, the only living evidence of a way to create immunity. And for all they knew, there was NO WAY to replicate said immunity in a fully grown adult. With there crappy labs and weak guess at how Ellie might have become immune, the worse thing they could do is kill her on a theory. Also Marlene didn’t know or raise Ellie, she just turned her over to a military school. While she was clearly broken hearted about killing her friend, she also turned her friend’s daughter over to the ‘enemy’ to raise. Does not seem like she was very attached to Ellie and would have continued to ignore her if not for the accidentally discovered immunity suddenly making her important.
I love that they gave us some backstory. Ellie just told Joel she would follow him anywhere after helping the fireflies. She said something before about giving her blood. That girl was expecting to walk outta there. She wasn't planning on dying. That's why she was put under and strapped to that damn table so fast.
Gotta disagree, I loved watching Joel go ham on these people. Its like he is trying to make up for not being able to save Sara, and it was one of my favorite scenes next to the giraffe scene
Why are people calling Joel soft? That makes 0 sense. Just because he is open to someone he traveled with for a year doesn't make a man soft. wtf. If 2 Marines went through some tours together and one opened up to the other. Would that make him soft?
its good that ellie becoming immune is ambigious. was it because her mom was bitten before she was born or was she like that from the beginning. its better that way than explicitly saying that it is the reason why
Joel was in real Army. He may be older but he had actual training before the world ended. The firefly cats maybe learned tactics from a field manual...
I took it less as Joel switching and becoming a "cool dad" but rather him sensing Ellie's descent into depression and guilt and trying really hard to keep her from falling beyond the point of no return.
They did set up that Joel is a Iraq War Veteran, and these guys were civilians, with maybe the ones assigned to escort him out one of the few combat trained people among these nurses and scientist. That line about Joel missing shooting himself reminds me of the only good line from the movie "The Predator', where one of the crew is asked why he is assigned to the group, and he says something like "The commanding officer was an asshole, so I shot him", only to reveal later that he had a scar on his head, as HE was the commanding officer he tried to kill.
For me the backstory of how Ellie becomes immune is great for character/plot but to me it was more about us understanding how immunity works in this world.
I think we see Joel clear the hospital as Joel recalls it, not as it went down, hence it's cold clear and goal-oriented. I don't think they could do it any other way without it becoming a Superman story or a long drawn-out battle. Though in fairness I would have loved the catharsis of a good battle rather than the almost anti-climactic end we got. Emotional satisfaction over cerebral satisfaction.
Like Marlene knows how Ellie became immune, she could easily recreate those circumstances no? Like she obviously doesn't care about the individual, she's willing to kill Ellie. She knows Joel isn't going to let her do it. Just grab another pregnant lady and have her bit while she's in labor. She'd probably have dozens of volunteers. And she wouldn't even have to kill the pregnant woman if she thinks she's going to find a cure. She could just promise to cure the woman after.
The point isn’t rather or not we agree, but rather we understand why he did it. It’s impossible to ask a parent to make that choice, and it’s not Ellie’s right to make that choice either, she’s just 14. Plus, I don’t think Joel, who’s seen the worst in humanity, thinks it’s worth sacrificing someone as pure as Ellie for it. Humanity is terrible, they don’t deserve a cure, at this cost.
besides I didn't see any real indication of certain success with the operation or if they would not abuse the cure for their own advantage if it did succeed.
The type of infected that chased down Ellie's mom was a Stalker, between a Runner & a Clicker. They are the ones that do stealth and hunt you down. The same type that attacked Ellie and Riley at the mall.
Abby came flying through that corner on the one scene. She dipped down that hallway. Can't wait to see how that plays out in season 2. She was probably having a conversation with the guy and he said "I'll cover you." So she can get away.
I thought it was good but a bit rushed and a med student back then (now doctor) friend bought up an old complaint that I forgot about , that the fireflies "vaccine" plan didn't make much sense and they didn't fix or address it in this. It's easy for me to suspend my disbelief for something like that but I thought how much they were making an effort in changing the lore of how the Cordyceps worked that they would attempt to tweak it to have it make some sense. Still a full price
Why didn’t anyone tell Joel he was dooming humanity? I’d have told him that immediately. Right when he stated his disapproval, but before things got violent. That if the decision was made to not go through with this, it wouldn’t be cordyceps that killed the human race. It would be that decision. In the game, this has to happen because of that needs of that medium. But, as a series, a little more emphatic communication might’ve had more positive results.
No one is split about about damn thing Korey! Plenty of people have questioned why the Fireflies didn't attempted nonlethal procedures on Ellie like a brain biopsy or taking spinal fluid to get what they needed; ergo why the general consensus is Joel was write and the Fireflies were wrong. The writers ultimately failed to make a black and white situation have more shades of grey than they probably wanted and why it was the weakest episode of the season for me personally.
I agree with Joe, Ellie was emotionally strained. Furthermore, because children are underdeveloped, they do not understand their feelings (most adults do not either), so it is up to us, the adults, to make the right decisions for their betterment. Kids are incapable of making medical decisions with lifelong consequences.
Throughout this series they do hint that Joel is more savage than what was being shown…with that being said, I loved the ending. If anything it paid homage to the “gameplay” aspect of the video game. Also, if you think Joel was “soft” and complain about how he was in the ending….idk what to tell ya lol
The extra flashback is cool but adds a bit of a plot problem. It made sense when the immunity was a mystery that they had to get Ellie to that surgeon. But there's now no reason the fireflies needed such a risky, longshot plan. Much easier to try and recreate the conditions at the site.
Joel unintentionally made the right decision. Not because of character arcs or choices, but because those doctors were about to make a terrible irreversible mistake. Their plan to make a vaccine and how they intended to do it was loose at best and completely untested. There was no way of knowing their idea was actually going to work. How might some patients take it? Would it kill some people? Would it just straight up infect new people with cordyceps? Would some people's bodies just reject it? In the episode they say Ellie emits neurotransmitters that tell cordyceps she's one of them, but cultivating brain cells and shoving them into people may not have the intended effect. BUT keeping ellie ALIVE (afterall shes their one and only subject) running tests on ellie to find out exactly what those chemical transmitters and and THEN figuring out how to replicate the transmitters themselves all while keeping your one and only test subject alive to keep all options on that table is way smarter. The reality is the doctors were risking everything based on a hunch that cultivating ellie's cells in her brain and injecting them into people would be enough. They were going to kill their "one chance" so quickly out of blind hope and desperation
Korey is not buying it but when I watched it I was like hmm those fireflies surely fall like flies ... but then these are not military people, they might act tough but they were given weapons and play soldiers in this post apocalyptia ...
How is it unrealistic? It's far from "Call of Duty". If you watch it again, he never does anything unrealistic. He only kills a handful of people usually one on one and many caught by surprise. It's not as if he's all Rambo hip firing machine guns in the wide open.
I totally agree about Joel gunning through the fire flies I thought it was just me. As much as I love the game I thought they would have grounded that sequence more. They have done a great job of the series up to that point of not making feel so video gamey. That part and Marlene part where she had Joel dead to rights at the end I couldn't really buy and should have been adapted better. Still love the episode and season overall
My boys and I, talking about this episode, I told them I would kill my way through a hospital to get to them. I'm not gambling either of their lives on someone's hasty maybe cure.
I never played the game. I haven't seen many people complain that Joel is soft so much as softer than the game, which to me just meant more nuanced and multi-dimensional. That being said, Joel beat a Fedra officer to a pulp in ep1 for Ellie (who he didn't even know), and of course he had a goal in mind to reach his brother, but that was violent and that's just to say I never thought Joel seemed soft, nor that his finale transition was at all by surprise. I wish it could have been 10-12eps, but the complaint is purely is because I want more and for it to pace more slowly, but ultimately this is a 9/10 series to me.
We didn't need to know how Ellie became immune? 🤔 I haven't played the games, but for a show focused on the character's immunity that seems to be a pretty important topic to get into.
I thought the episode was good but maybe the least under some other episodes like last weeks or ep 3 for example. I think this one needed to be just a little longer but not too much. Looking forward to the next few seasons when they come. Pedro and Bella deserve recognition for this season.🙏
Yes it is a video game adaptation, but very much like Until Dawn - it was a story based video game. Not quite as many quick time events as Until Dawn but it was very much story first/game second. Yah there was some parts where aim mattered, etc. but it was not game first, story second like Mortal Kombat, etc. Resident Evil really had a chance to do something great, but it never really materialized. The original Resident Evil was decent (with Jovovich) but still had so much room for improvement. Had they made a series out of the latest movie instead, it could've been just as good. Resident Evil IMO was much more terrifying in the fact that we created the virus. It's never clearly identified in the Last of Us (at least the original) and it's possible humans led to it (flour/grain is all that's mentioned) but it wasn't purposely done as it was in RE.
Joel is definitely in the wrong, but I get why he did it. Honestly, I blame the Fireflies though. They ambushed them and prepped her for surgery without the 2 of them going on. If they sat down and talked it out, I'm sure Ellie would've gone through with it. If she protested then I can see everything playing the same way. They knew who Joel was and took a risk not letting walking away knowing he was against it.
the moral greyness this show's ending had is like the moral greyness The Watchmen had, where both sides are wrong and both sides are right. All we can hope for is that anything that happens after the event is for the better.
Korey keeps talking about how so many people were talking about Joel being soft, but the only person I ever heard complain about that was him
Nar a few reviewers were saying the same thing up until episode 8
Which is shitty take Joel hasn't been portrayed as soft - maybe old and slow at times but soft nah . That one added with tommy maybe but that's his brother
I’ve seen videos still calling him soft because a man would never open up to a child like he did with Ellie when he told her she is what “healed” him.
When the red pill, anti woke videos have rotted your brain beyond repair.
@@mustermas Nah, Joel is super soft compared to the first game. The video game Joel had tender moments with Ellie, but he was serious, stoic, and quick to violence from beginning to end. This Joel behaved much more like a modern dramatized TV character.
True, but it was never “soft” it was just vulnerable, and more humane. If he was ruthless from episode 1 it wouldn’t have worked.
Joel heard that “he’s soft” talk from Korey and took it personally😂😂
He killed several people before this last episode but somehow he “soft”… WHAT
The HBO series didn't focus much on action which was the gameplay in the videogame as this is why some foolishly thought joel was soft but I'm sure after watching episodes 8&9 those people are thinking alittle differently about ole joel being "soft" lol
Im fine with the Hospital scene. Korey acting like the Fireflies are a bunch of Ex-Military commandos or something LOL...
They’re in a zombie type apocalypse and fighting FEDRA. They should be more on point.
@desmondwhite6785 ok that’s fair.
i agree...i just saw them as some regular dudes with guns who survived this far and only there to watch the perimeter in case others showed up, not some seasoned marksmen and skilled combatants.
In an alternate universe if Joel doesn't go Joel Wick in the hospital Korey would've been ranting about tv Joel being softer than video game Joel. He was going to complain about something no matter what
Exactly
he was soft as shiit for 75% of the season....there where barely any infected...this was made for women to watch
@@TheTonytone77 I mean.. apparently you would know right?
@@yawdaorb only women like u would no for sure...
@@TheTonytone77 that's some troll comment
Marlene has no connection to Ellie. She gave her away to FEDRA for them to raise and Ellie almost became a FEDRA officer. Ellie wouldn’t be a second thought to Marlene if she wasn’t immune.
When Ellie talked about seeing it through, she was envisioning herself being alive afterwards. If she specifically agreed to die and Joel intervened, I might disagree with Joel's choice, but as it stands I'm cool with it.
Plus, I always remember that scene in the second game where Marlene ask the doctor if he'd still be willing to do the surgery if it was his daughter on the table and he refused to answer. Doctor was full of shit and a hypocrite.
I think you're thinking like Joel. Does any of her demeanor after that sound like she wasn't willing to die for her purpose?
@@The_Cold_Slither She makes plans for a life with Joel when it's all over. She never thought she was going to die to make a cure. The second game tries to gaslight you into thinking that's what she thought, but she never treats it as a sacrifice in the first game, or the show.
@Blerdrotic then they should have asked her beforehand instead of trying be shady and dressing it up as for the greater good.
In that moment, the fireflies were no better than the average raider, who kills one person in order to help themselves and others.
@tonyj9743 Actually they should’ve put Joel down before he woke up, or not told him they wanted to cut Elle’s brain out of her head.
@@wilcee238 agreed. They tried to be halfway crooks and paid the price.
Yeah, not only did the actress for Ellie's Mother bear a striking resemblance to Ellie in terms of appearance and personality (along with giving a great performance) but that actress is Ashley Johnson, who voiced and motion performed the original Ellie in the The Last of Us games. So having the original Ellie give birth to the new Ellie in the show has a lot of symbolic weight and meaning to it as well.
I thought I was the only one with that observation great minds think alike.
She use to be a child actress and actually was in the first Avengers film during the battle in New York.She was the one who got saved by Captain America in the restaurant then thanked him at the end when they were showing all the people's reactions about the Avengers
@@keldorthebluemack Wow, did not know that. Thanks for that fun fact.
Marlene didn't raise Ellie. She dumbed Ellie into FEDRA school than never talk to Ellie again until Ellie got bit when she she was 14.
To be fair she kinda had her hands full with a rebellion....and you could look at it that she was keeping her safe by sending her to FEDRA. Though yeah a grey area. She did care about her deeply.
@@nayden5834 She may have, but saying she raised Ellie is complete bullshit!!
To the point, Ellie didn't have any connection to her by the time we first see them together and Ellie is being held, prisoner.
@@rwwilson21she never said she raised her, just that she was there when Ellie was born. and she was best friends with her mom, so Marlene still felt connected to Ellie emotionally.
@@beccazach I'm talking about this video and what the guy said in it. not to mention in the game, Marlene said she raised Ellie, when actually she didn't.
It's weird to me that Joel is considered selfish for 'dooming' humanity by killing a doctor(of dubious medical degree) and saving Ellie, but not the Fireflies for unneccessairly exposing Ellie to extreme risk by forcing her to trek across the entire country who could easily died dozens of times before they reached the hospital, just because they refused to hand her over to FEDRA who could actually made and distributed a vaccine to everyone. How were the Fireflies supposed to create a vaccine in that dank extremly unsterile hospital without dozens of labtechs or even functioning power, let alone distributed it to everyone when on foot and getting to the other side of the country where most of the survivors are?
Yes FEDRA were fascists authoritarian thugs, but what alternative was there that had a chance of helping the most people?
THANK YOU!!!!! Like people Marlene put her whole plan in the hands of an IF Ellie would even make it here alive!!!! The Fireflies weren't even where they were supposed to be in the first place! So if Joel and Ellie hadn't found the map/clues, went back to Tommy... THEN WHAT? He still doomed humanity? Lol
I agree. The world has been effed up for 20 years. His decision was not selfish. ONE doctor thinking of a cure? I’d be doubtful if it were a few doctors. Humanity has devolved so much a ‘cure’ is not going to instantly take it back to 2003.
I totally get the wrong of sacrificing the fate of humanity for one girl and normally I would have smh....but after all they went through since losing his own daughter I was not mad at all and especially the way they took her and shunned him away under threat of death...I was like fk them all..get her back Joel!!!
Exactly, also you can't lie to Joel or even ask about the trip? I don't believe the Fireflies would succeed.
@@darealmccoi9780 And in the game, I think they mentioned something about Ellie would have been the 11th or 12th attempt at finding a cure for the cordyceps virus. I don't even blame Joel for snatching her up out of there. Especially after the bond they formed after taking the trip together.
Joel didn't take Ellie's choice of self-sacrifice away because Ellie's choice wasn't based on self-sacrifice. She said to him that after it's done, we'll go or do whatever you want. Does that sound like someone even considering that the procedure will kill her? Morally grey as far as the world is concerned on Joel's part? Sure. Wrong in terms of what Ellie wanted? No.
I haven’t seen the episode but if it’s anything like the game Ellie would’ve wanted to die regardless because of what happened between her and her girlfriend, he absolutely took her choice away.
He just assumed he knew what she wanted, hell not even that, he just didn’t want her to die
@Jake Tylenol Even so, and I know this is almost 1 to 1 with the game itself, if Marlene was so confident in that assumption, she'd have no problem waiting for her to wake up and let her choose. Again, you can argue a selfish aspect on Joel's part, but his side of it at least doesn't make that sacrificial choice FOR Ellie.
The Fireflies are the ones who took away her choice in the matter. But based on everything we know about her wishes, Joel took away her opportunity to be part of a cure. And it's totally valid for her to be suspicious and resent Joel for that. Esp because Joel's choice was partly selfishly motivated by his desire for Ellie to replace his his daughter
@@joshuahermanson341 that’s not what you’re arguing, or at least that’s not my argument. You can say that and it be fair, but at the end of the day, Ellie would’ve just agreed with her regardless, and Joel took that sacrifice away from her, on top of killing a whole hospital of people just so he wouldn’t be alone.
At least those who were going to cut up this girl were doing so out of desperation and actually wanted to help the world, even if it was fucked up.
Ellie had no say in the matter, but the fireflies were right, their choice was what Ellie wanted anyway
Ellie was willing to see the situation no matter what (based on her limited medical knowledge) Unfortunately no one asked her so it’s question that will forever not have a answer.
Though this whole long emotional journey she proven that she is capable & mature enough to make tough choices.
Both Marlene & Joel took that important choice away.
I understand Joel’s action he was protecting her (I’ll probably do similar)
By Joel lying to Ellie just continues what Marlene did
which was take away Ellie’s personal agency.
Ellie deserve the choice & truth.
The mother and daughter looked so much alike, nobody should complain about Ellie's casting anymore.
They do not look alike 😂😂
Yes. Kinda since Ellie voice actor has aged
Yeah, not only did the actress for Ellie's Mother bear a striking resemblance to Ellie in terms of appearance and personality (along with giving a great performance) but that actress is Ashley Johnson, who voiced and motion performed the original Ellie in the The Last of Us games. So having the original Ellie give birth to the new Ellie in the show has a lot of symbolic weight and meaning to it as well.
They look nothing like each other
@@ajiththomas2465 She also voiced Gretchen in the Disney cartoon "Recess". Whenever I hear her voice in anything, I hear that character.
Every time Korey called Marlene "Mary Ann", I kept saying "his name is Lee goddammit!"
😂😂😂😂
How can Korey not like the hospital scene ? What were the writers supposed to do ? It’s literally what happened in the game 😂 they always nitpick
he didnt like it becuase joel was a biitch for 75% of the seaon then turns in to superman makes lil sense
@@TheTonytone77 how ??? In Episode 2 he killed like 3 clickers, & in episode 4 he killed that group in Seattle. Also in Episode 1 the first shot we see of Joel 20 years after the infection is him throwing a child in fire 😭 not to mention he was selling drugs to the soldiers
@@ethanndenero9417 episode 2 he almost died killing one clicker.. Tess helped with the second one... What else did he do before episode 9 but get stabbed by one dude and cry most the season untill the finale
@TheTonyTone77 Joel snapped a guys neck in Episode 7, and killed 3 men in Episode 8 (torturing one) Change your tampon and quit crying.
It could've been shot better and leaned more into Joel's strategic side.
What Korey and Oz seem to forget, ESPECIALLY Korey, about Joel’s “softness” is that Joel and Ellie crossed the country over the course of a year. They’ve been through a ton of trauma trying to help each other survive infected, the environment, and fellow survivors who were trying to kill them. Of course it makes sense that they would form a relationship, that they would bond and that Joel would do absolutely everything in his power to protect her. He’s portrayed as much more human in the show rather than the game because we aren’t in control of him. His thoughts, emotions, and actions have to make sense as to why he is the way he is during the more quiet moments. It’s not him being “soft and jovial” it’s him being a human being.
If you hadn’t played the game, maybe this show wouldn’t make you remember that either.
Anyone calling Joel soft, I would love to see them handle a real apocalypse 😂😂😂
THIS!!!!!!! This comment is everything! They’ve spent a year together!
Except they barely encountered any infected. Nor harsh environments/climates. Nor many other malicious fellow survivors other than a couple. They didn’t go through much of anything at all really.
@@ez6888 I agree, however, don’t forget that there is A LOT of growth between the characters we don’t get to see during the seasonal skips in game and in the series. We only experience what the characters go through during one-two days of that particular story beat, not the entire year itself.
damn i feel bad for everyone who watched this and doesn’t know what happens in the 2nd game cause korey straight up spoils it without warning lol
lol "i don't want to spoil too much, but Abby is the daughter of this doctor." hahaha that had me going for a while.
Why would he give that away 😂
Bro. Big spoiler right there. I feel bad for ppl who don’t know lol her identity thinking who the Fuxk is this girl was huge In the game 😂
@@rachelm.3173 I could see him struggling, like doubting, "oh boy, this is probably not something I should say..." but then he did hahaha
Marlene her name was Marlene 🤦🏾♂️🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂😂
Ellie thought she was going to help create a cure and live her life with Joel as her dad. She didn’t know she was going to die. To Joel, Ellie is a second chance to make things right especially since he blames himself for Sarah and Tess’s deaths
That’s a good point, she didn’t know she’d die. That being said I think we all (including joel) know she’d sacrifice herself even if she knew that’s what it would cost.
Imagine choosing not to sacrifice yourself to save the world & living with that guilt the rest of your life?
@@bigpictureguys8415 We DON’T know if Ellie would give her life and it’s wrong to assume either way. She said she didn’t want to go all that way for it to be for nothing and she continued to make plans for the rest of her life.
A “cure” in their world is useless where doctors are murdered in shipping containers. How viable would this alleged cure even be? Instead of doing blood work and tests the Fire Flies great plan was to kill Ellie by removing her brain. Even if a cure is made who is going to distribute it? How are they going to test it? And what good is a cure if you can still be ripped apart and people can’t be turned back to human? They didn’t even have enough electricity for the surgery but they’re supposed to make a viable cure? No guilt in saying no.
We're really complaining about a video game adaptation that so far has been very accurate to its source being "unrealistic" and too much like a video game, alright man, sure.
I don't understand what alternative Korey had for that hospital scene, but he would also have to come up a whole new ending and story/theme for Part 2 as well because Joel's actions is literally the main foundation for them both.
I can always expect for Corey to find something to complain about 😂
He’s not as bad as Martin
Breh they are reviewers. That’s their job to complain. Keep in mind they’ve seen hundreds of movies and tv shows. So they seen every possible inconvenience and plotpoints imagined.
Lol bro can’t cope that most television and film isn’t perfect and a guy whose job to review hundreds of this stuff may have something to critique
@@S.E.J omg, you read my mind. I can’t cope. Life is over because I was called out by a random person on UA-cam 😒
@@Alwaysbelieve619 thanks for that basic explanation of what a reviewers job title is Captain obvious! Who would have thought of that?
Mary Ann? 🤣
Anna: "Take her, her name's Ellie. Find someone to give her a home. Then bake me a coconut cream pie."
You called him soft multiple times before but when Joel is finally killing people like he does in the game now you can’t believe it?
Yeah his critiques are inconsistent and make zero sense
Yeah you can’t go from one extreme to the next. Kind of have to earn whatever character you are trying to portray, they never earned it
Everyone upset with Joel decision to not tell her the truth but Marlene didn’t tell her the truth neither about her having to die. Ellie only 14 and at that point she became Joel daughter and at least wanted to have some type of life no matter if it was an apocalypse 🤷🏾♂️
only ones upset are those who didn't play the game. The fact that the game ended in such a controversial way its one of the reasons it's so well remembered
Still doesn't mean what Joel was okay.
Ellie wanted to sacrifice herself , she says so in the second game
@Legacysquid 062 untrue. She said she thinks she would have wanted that. But that's as an adult and after scrutinizing it over years. We'll never know what she would have done in the moment. And that's the point.
@@legacysquid0625 I think the show made it clear she would’ve chosen to sacrifice herself. It wouldn’t be a complicated moral quandary moment if she wanted to be saved
Funny detail, Laura Bailey didn't just voice Abby. She did actually voice one of the nurses in the first video game, along with a number of the incidental characters.
Yeah. Troy Baker does a bunch of incidental characters as well. It's range
I loved how they played that scene where Joel kills everyone. A lesser show would’ve played it as an badass action beat, but they played it like a tragedy. Pretty brilliant
Korey is why people make bad video adaptations. How is it unbelievable that Joel would murk those dudes at the end? They nerfed the ending TO make it believable. Bad take.
It was unrealistic as hell. That being said I gave it a pass without much thought (noticed it tho) considering it’s obviously what was going to happen for the story to progress
Him calling Marlene “Marianne” really took me out
You can tell when he hasn’t watched what he’s commenting about cause he always gets character names wrong.
When he gets names wrong multiple times and then has a wack take like the hospital scene, I tune out
@@jobnieloliva5358 that or he just watches so much stuff its hard to recall names...I have the same issue when I'm watching 4 or 5 things at the same time
Right? I was like who is Mary Ann???
@Christopher B. Braxton breh who cares. My god you guys complain so much.
Spoiler**
It was good he did it because no one knew it would even work. I don't know if there was more evidence in the game but little justification for taking her brain was shown here. Plus if they had that theory, other ways could be found.
So, right on Joel.
I agree...I mean she didn't even want to sit with them and have a hard talk about what is expected. It was just...we got her, we need to kill her, now get the fk out or we'll kill you too......I was like nahh...it's not going down like that.
I agree, because you could (or at least I could) see his face shift after Marlene mentioned how little the doctor actually knew. I think, and this is just my opinion, that he was conflicted about it, but leaning towards going along with it for a split second before she told him that. After he found out how little they were going on, he wasn't about to have Ellie's life taken away. They weren't going to kill her for practically a shot in the dark. I'd be thinking the same thing after finding that out and how she became immune in the first place. They definitely could have gotten another immune person. The fate of the world didn't rest on her shoulders alone. I'd save my daughter. I would have told her the truth, though.
So Cory is upset that a show based on a video game has parts that feel like a video game? 😂
Joel took out the hospital easy b/c Marlene's soldiers got killed on the journey. She says that. The Ellie/Riley episode showed us that FEDRA/Fireflies recruits are just people, not experts, these ppl in the hospital were just bare bones, amateurs. That's why the camera focuses on the dead bodies & the gravity of the inhumanity Joel has committed for selfish gain.
It's very poetic, Joel losing his soul, stalking through a hospital killing civilians and I honestly thought Korey would have caught that detail.
PS. After 9 episodes, it's Marlene dude. Make notes!
I was leaning against Joel at first but Angry Joe Show made a great point. The Fireflies are not good people and would’ve just used the cure as a power play instead of giving it to all of humanity indiscriminately. So with that, I’m #TeamJoel
So Fedra is better then?
So Fedra is better then?
@@timothyturner87 Humans suck. Some know they’re evil, others are just as evil and pretend they’re good 🤷🏾♂️
In the game there's a missable cassette tape where Marlene vents about her decision by 'apologizing' to Anna. It serves a similar purpose as the starting scene in the episode. It IS missable though.
They missed Ellie mesmerized by the image of a deer when Joel is calling her name. They spent 1/2 a million on a bloater suit and didn't use it under the bridge, which would bring to Joel trying to save Ellie from drowning. They missed the symbolism of Joel running from people carrying Ellie like he did with Sarah running from infected. And they also missed Joel touching his watch at the ending dialogue.
I’m glad they pulled back on the amount of Super Infected. Personally, I think big action sequences would have distracted from the television version of the narrative. We only had so much time to spend with these characters and the story needed to take precedence over outrageous set pieces.
Facts.
@@CosmicSpaceBaby I agree
I think the problem is that since they didn't have to deal with the infected directly very often in the show, Joel going into Rambo mode made him feel OP and unrealistic. If we had seen Joel's aptitude for violence against the infected more frequently throughout the season it would have made more sense.
We literally saw Joel drop 3 armed men (and torture one of them) just last episode. He also snapped a guys neck the episode before that. Moving on.
nah, it was shown and referred to enough to know he was a no-nonsense bad mf. Reminded me of Rick Grimes early on vs after some time and loss, he no longer played any hesitation games.
@@wilcee238 the fucck are u talking about....u move on .....joel was a biitch for 75% of the season...snapping one dudes neck and getting stabbed in the same time isnt badass dumb ass.....ellie killed more ppl in episode 8 then joel did doesnt that actually make him bad ass
Huh? Joel has been getting busy. I was not surprised by what he did. It made sense to me.
I’m confused on how Joel seemed obsessed with Ellie. In watching the show, Joel progressively began to see Ellie as his surrogate child. They’ve spent months together on this journey so of course naturally he’s going to become fond of her and upon finding out what The Fireflies have to do to her… he’s going to protect her. It wasn’t obsession. It was a natural progression of love. He started out not caring for this girl and seeing her as cargo. But, through the months, and all of the losses, he now sees her as more.
I wish the show touched more on the fact that the chances of the cure working or even being made was less then 1%
Remember in the second episode the Indonesian scientist said there isn't a cure.
Thank you. Not to mention, given the Fireflies overall behavior, I highly doubt they were gonna go around handing a cure out for free. If anything, it feels like they'd use it as a way to tip the power scale.
If that was true then there's no gray morality involved, just a mad scientist propped up by a military group experimenting on a little girl. From a meta standpoint the cure has to have a better chance of working than not otherwise the story is failing at its prime objective.
If they did, Joel's choice wouldn't have been made to seem more ambiguous and conflicting
They literally beat it into your head that there’s no cure and have framed the fireflies as terrorists.
Even with that, what Joel did is objectively “bad”. With the info he has and how he knows Ellie would be ok with it, he massacres the hospital. This is why he lies to her after the fact. He knows Ellie would give her life for just a chance to give a cure so people like Riley, Tess, Sam, would have hope and a chance to live.
With that said. I’d do the same thing Joel did. That’s the whole point.
I would have done the same as Joel. As a father, there's no limits when you are put in that position. Yes, as a father, you always think selfishly when it comes to your kids. He saw Ellie as his daughter by this time.
And OFC, he knows what he did was wrong, so he feels guilty and decides to hide the truth from her.
Just a terrible predicament.
Hell yeah bro that’s some real shit.
That is the real thing. Everyone doesn't not tell Ellie the truth and let her decide. Choices are made for her. Even if they told her the truth and said she had to sacrifice her life would they tell her they don't even know if it will work?
Come on now Korey, it's based off a video game. Are you really surprised Joel went straight rage mode? Now if they didn't do it, ppl would be complaining about how it wasn't like it was in the video game. You just can't win.
Re: Joel's dramatic personality shift in the opening scene. I assumed that was him overcompensating because he sensed that Ellie was off. He was trying to re-spark the fun, carefree girl he knew before her encounter with David. And he doesn't fully know what went down in the restaurant so he's doing typical dad stuff to try and win her back.
You should have learned by now, that whenever Korey says he doesn't mean to give away spoilers... he goes directly into spoilers.
Korey kept calling Marlene, Marianne and i was like who the hell is that.
The question should be “would the procedure actually work?” I find it hard to believe that it would have. I’m sure there would have had to be tons of experiments. Even pre apocalypse scientists couldn’t find cures or vaccines after only having one specimen. So basically Ellie would have died for nothing. I agree with Joel saving her, however I don’t agree with him lying to her. I have not played the game.
Even if someone were to give it the benefit of the doubt and assume that the procedure would have worked, that doesn't even take into account the other variables. How did they plan on mass producing this vaccine, did they even have the available resources to take on such a task, the level of effectiveness, and you just know there would be anti-vaxxers. I don't blame Joel for saving her, but like you I think the main issue is that neither side cared enough to tell Ellie the truth. She should have at least been a part of the conversation, kid or not. That was what pissed me off about Marlene toward the end-she asks Joel what he thinks Ellie would do, but if she was so confident in knowing what Ellie would have done, why didn't she just be honest with her?
@@DawnIgnited I agree 100%.
What Joel did in this episode was simply excellent, good man🎉🎉🎉
Every time he said “Mary Ann” I was forced to scream MARLENE at my TV 🙃
I agree with what a critic said several years ago.
If Ellie would have sacrificed herself, there's absolutely no way that the government wouldn't use this cure to their own personal advantage and screwing over the Common Man.
Oh sure, the rich, soldiers, and cops would get this, but everybody else would basically have it held over their heads.
what good is holding a cure over other people’s heads? yeah, sure, they can’t get infected, but the infected rip people apart regardless of infection status
@desdar100 except the Fireflies weren’t the government.
@@dirkdelacroix5949 that's just the corrupt way the world works.
A thing like that has monetary gain and the government in The Last of Us is already pretty corrupt as is.
The show didn’t bring more video game mannerisms to it,…..the game brought more real life mannerism to it,…that’s why it translated so good in the show because it was based on real life to begin with.
I totally agree and i also want to add they focused more on the characters and the story itself other than the gameplay and it makes sense because.....it's a tv series which don't have to have alot of action specifically for gameplay
I think if we look at the story as a whole, there’s a pattern that gets repeated. That pattern asks the question of what are we willing to do to just survive? And is just surviving enough if you lose your humanity? That was the point of Bill and Frank’s story. It showed something better. For many they’re willing to do anything and everything to survive. And at the end of the day it’s the innocent like Ellie that suffer and pay the price so others may live better.
Looking at the world, if you think about it, it’s not the fungus that's causing all the issues. It’s the people and how they’re being absolutely terrible to one another. In the QZs FEDRA rules with an iron fist and instead of trying to better the world, they want to maintain the status quo. They want to claw back to the old world instead of building a new one. All along the journey, are people in trouble because they’re under siege by the infected? No. They’re in trouble because they’re too busy being shitty to each other instead of cooperating and dealing with the issues at hand, fascist FEDRA, revenge seeking resistance, pedo cannibal preachers.
Yes the fungus brought down the old world, but people have built or found safe havens and are surviving. The fungus is a concern, but its no an imminent threat. The QZs fall because of people, not the fungus. If people came together and cooperated, they could thrive even if the fungus is still around. In a lot of ways people don’t need a cure. They just need to stop hurting each other and being selfish pricks.
The fireflies say they want to get the cure to save the world, but really, IMHO, getting the cure is them procuring power. They could wield that cure like weapon deciding who lives and who dies. Suddenly people will look to them for protection, and they become like the preacher gathering a flock.
Sacrificing Ellie is people willing to sell out the future to further their station in the present. What if Ellie has children and those children are immune? If that were the case, humanity would slowly acquire immunity as Ellie’s genes spread though the population generation after generation. But people are too short sighted. They couldn’t even wait a day to explore alternatives to sacrificing a child, and they didn’t even have the balls to face her and ask. They want things now and they don’t care what they have to sacrifice in order to get it.
So IMHO, Joel did the right thing. He refused to sell out the future just so his present could be better.
There’s an old Greek Proverb “A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit.”
Well in this case the Fireflies, and most people in this world, didn’t want to grow a chestnut tree. They wanted to take the chestnuts and roast them so they could put them into their muffins.
playing the game I thought this episode was pretty weak. I did enjoy watching the beginning of Ellie's birth. I thought that was cool. However, when it came down to the climax of joel's desperate desire to find ellie before she's killed and struggle against a mini army to get to her wasn't convincing and didn't seem high-staked. He just mowed through everyone and went back to the town almost effortlessly. I didn't feel the weight of it. Actually, there was more weight in the start of the episode than at the end of it. Lastly, why even give joel panic attacks if it will never impact during his most stressful moments? As I suspected they only gave joel panic attacks to humanize as a cheap way to make him more grounded as a person. If your going to deviate from the game storyline and create character flaws or vulnerabilities have it play out through the whole story and not leave out because it's inconvenient. Like korey said best-adapted video game story but not perfect but still worth watching.
Can we all agree how weak the hospital siege was for what it could have been?
Joel was far too impenetrable - I wanted to see a little bit of a struggle, and the sequence seems as though it wasn’t so congruent with his abilities in the previous episodes.
It’s understandable that he’s in a state of desperation to save Ellie, but he’s not the terminator. Joel was an immense threat in the video game, but the TV show has already established different rules for him.
On top of that, I feel like it wasn’t filmed or edited in a way that was as impactful as it could have been- This may just be me?
All the character moments around this sequence were great though. Could have been a bit longer?
They could’ve have at least included the subway scene from the game that went more of that emotional bond Ellie and Joel have. The Firefly introduction felt more realistic in the game than in the show too. The hospital scene felt really rushed from shooting a few Firefly soldiers then bam you are in the Pediatric Surgery room with the doctor. The transition felt way too fast.
nah, we can't all agree on that. I get that it seemed a little too easy, but I'm accepting the idea that they were caught off guard and just some a-holes with guns scattered around the place to just to watch the perimeter and not skilled shooters or fighters. I enjoyed the quick and decisive no nonsense taking them out.
@@rbz1 I agree. After what Marlene told Joel, it was obvious that they were basically "winging it." Also, a bunch of the fireflies had been taken out by infected at the original meeting place, so it makes sense that there weren't that many people on watch. They'd be spread thin and may have lost some of their best fighters. So, I think it was pretty believable, all things considered.
I think it was kinda stupid for the Fireflies to kill Ellie, the only living evidence of a way to create immunity. And for all they knew, there was NO WAY to replicate said immunity in a fully grown adult. With there crappy labs and weak guess at how Ellie might have become immune, the worse thing they could do is kill her on a theory.
Also Marlene didn’t know or raise Ellie, she just turned her over to a military school. While she was clearly broken hearted about killing her friend, she also turned her friend’s daughter over to the ‘enemy’ to raise. Does not seem like she was very attached to Ellie and would have continued to ignore her if not for the accidentally discovered immunity suddenly making her important.
"I don't want to spoil too much about the second game..." Holy effing Hell man?!
"I'll teach ya how to dougie." Oz killed me with that line, man. XD
I love that they gave us some backstory.
Ellie just told Joel she would follow him anywhere after helping the fireflies. She said something before about giving her blood. That girl was expecting to walk outta there. She wasn't planning on dying. That's why she was put under and strapped to that damn table so fast.
Ellie's mom in the show is Ellie's voice actor in the game? Sounds like her.
Gotta disagree, I loved watching Joel go ham on these people. Its like he is trying to make up for not being able to save Sara, and it was one of my favorite scenes next to the giraffe scene
People forgetting that Joel is a military combat vet. He had a bumper sticker on his truck pre apocalypse.
that’s actually tommy, and tommy’s truck
Come on Korey, we live in America, one dude going nuts and mowing down droves of people happens weekly here
Why are people calling Joel soft? That makes 0 sense. Just because he is open to someone he traveled with for a year doesn't make a man soft. wtf. If 2 Marines went through some tours together and one opened up to the other. Would that make him soft?
its good that ellie becoming immune is ambigious. was it because her mom was bitten before she was born or was she like that from the beginning. its better that way than explicitly saying that it is the reason why
Korey when reviewing Resident Evil “ It’s nothing like the game! 😭😭😭”
Korey reviewing The Last Of Us “ man this just feels too much like a video game”
Joel was in real Army. He may be older but he had actual training before the world ended. The firefly cats maybe learned tactics from a field manual...
I took it less as Joel switching and becoming a "cool dad" but rather him sensing Ellie's descent into depression and guilt and trying really hard to keep her from falling beyond the point of no return.
They did set up that Joel is a Iraq War Veteran, and these guys were civilians, with maybe the ones assigned to escort him out one of the few combat trained people among these nurses and scientist.
That line about Joel missing shooting himself reminds me of the only good line from the movie "The Predator', where one of the crew is asked why he is assigned to the group, and he says something like "The commanding officer was an asshole, so I shot him", only to reveal later that he had a scar on his head, as HE was the commanding officer he tried to kill.
There were no good lines from “The Predator”.
For me the backstory of how Ellie becomes immune is great for character/plot but to me it was more about us understanding how immunity works in this world.
I think we see Joel clear the hospital as Joel recalls it, not as it went down, hence it's cold clear and goal-oriented. I don't think they could do it any other way without it becoming a Superman story or a long drawn-out battle. Though in fairness I would have loved the catharsis of a good battle rather than the almost anti-climactic end we got. Emotional satisfaction over cerebral satisfaction.
Mans got YOU on the mind, calling Marlene Marianne 💀😅
How was Joel ever soft tho? Off rip he stabbed a paralyzed guy begging for his mother.
Like Marlene knows how Ellie became immune, she could easily recreate those circumstances no? Like she obviously doesn't care about the individual, she's willing to kill Ellie. She knows Joel isn't going to let her do it. Just grab another pregnant lady and have her bit while she's in labor. She'd probably have dozens of volunteers. And she wouldn't even have to kill the pregnant woman if she thinks she's going to find a cure. She could just promise to cure the woman after.
The point isn’t rather or not we agree, but rather we understand why he did it. It’s impossible to ask a parent to make that choice, and it’s not Ellie’s right to make that choice either, she’s just 14. Plus, I don’t think Joel, who’s seen the worst in humanity, thinks it’s worth sacrificing someone as pure as Ellie for it. Humanity is terrible, they don’t deserve a cure, at this cost.
besides I didn't see any real indication of certain success with the operation or if they would not abuse the cure for their own advantage if it did succeed.
The type of infected that chased down Ellie's mom was a Stalker, between a Runner & a Clicker. They are the ones that do stealth and hunt you down. The same type that attacked Ellie and Riley at the mall.
Abby came flying through that corner on the one scene. She dipped down that hallway. Can't wait to see how that plays out in season 2. She was probably having a conversation with the guy and he said "I'll cover you." So she can get away.
I thought it was good but a bit rushed and a med student back then (now doctor) friend bought up an old complaint that I forgot about , that the fireflies "vaccine" plan didn't make much sense and they didn't fix or address it in this.
It's easy for me to suspend my disbelief for something like that but I thought how much they were making an effort in changing the lore of how the Cordyceps worked that they would attempt to tweak it to have it make some sense.
Still a full price
The Dr.Joel kills is Abby's father, Abby kills Joel in part 2 of the game. Then Ellie hunts down Abby twice, letting her live both times, the end.
Why didn’t anyone tell Joel he was dooming humanity? I’d have told him that immediately. Right when he stated his disapproval, but before things got violent. That if the decision was made to not go through with this, it wouldn’t be cordyceps that killed the human race. It would be that decision. In the game, this has to happen because of that needs of that medium. But, as a series, a little more emphatic communication might’ve had more positive results.
Here's cool movie facts.
Ashley Johnson played in the 1990 film Lionheart with Jean Claude Van Damme.
No one is split about about damn thing Korey! Plenty of people have questioned why the Fireflies didn't attempted nonlethal procedures on Ellie like a brain biopsy or taking spinal fluid to get what they needed; ergo why the general consensus is Joel was write and the Fireflies were wrong. The writers ultimately failed to make a black and white situation have more shades of grey than they probably wanted and why it was the weakest episode of the season for me personally.
The whole season was building to this: Joel seemed softer throughout so that the audience would be shocked when Joel mercs the Fireflies.
I agree with Joe, Ellie was emotionally strained. Furthermore, because children are underdeveloped, they do not understand their feelings (most adults do not either), so it is up to us, the adults, to make the right decisions for their betterment. Kids are incapable of making medical decisions with lifelong consequences.
Throughout this series they do hint that Joel is more savage than what was being shown…with that being said, I loved the ending. If anything it paid homage to the “gameplay” aspect of the video game. Also, if you think Joel was “soft” and complain about how he was in the ending….idk what to tell ya lol
YES!!...how are folks forgetting those references of "who he used to be"
That scene was boss asf.
The extra flashback is cool but adds a bit of a plot problem. It made sense when the immunity was a mystery that they had to get Ellie to that surgeon. But there's now no reason the fireflies needed such a risky, longshot plan. Much easier to try and recreate the conditions at the site.
Joel unintentionally made the right decision. Not because of character arcs or choices, but because those doctors were about to make a terrible irreversible mistake. Their plan to make a vaccine and how they intended to do it was loose at best and completely untested. There was no way of knowing their idea was actually going to work. How might some patients take it? Would it kill some people? Would it just straight up infect new people with cordyceps? Would some people's bodies just reject it? In the episode they say Ellie emits neurotransmitters that tell cordyceps she's one of them, but cultivating brain cells and shoving them into people may not have the intended effect. BUT keeping ellie ALIVE (afterall shes their one and only subject) running tests on ellie to find out exactly what those chemical transmitters and and THEN figuring out how to replicate the transmitters themselves all while keeping your one and only test subject alive to keep all options on that table is way smarter. The reality is the doctors were risking everything based on a hunch that cultivating ellie's cells in her brain and injecting them into people would be enough. They were going to kill their "one chance" so quickly out of blind hope and desperation
Nooooo Kory dont tell them that! Its a huge plot point
Korey is not buying it but when I watched it I was like hmm those fireflies surely fall like flies ... but then these are not military people, they might act tough but they were given weapons and play soldiers in this post apocalyptia ...
I think the lack of Zombies was to highlight the fact that humans are the true monsters to be afraid of.
How is it unrealistic? It's far from "Call of Duty". If you watch it again, he never does anything unrealistic. He only kills a handful of people usually one on one and many caught by surprise. It's not as if he's all Rambo hip firing machine guns in the wide open.
EXACTLY!!
I totally agree about Joel gunning through the fire flies I thought it was just me. As much as I love the game I thought they would have grounded that sequence more. They have done a great job of the series up to that point of not making feel so video gamey. That part and Marlene part where she had Joel dead to rights at the end I couldn't really buy and should have been adapted better. Still love the episode and season overall
Lmao he kept saying Marianne he thought he was still watching You
Man I wanted to hear THE Martin Thomas’s opinion on this show😢
My boys and I, talking about this episode, I told them I would kill my way through a hospital to get to them. I'm not gambling either of their lives on someone's hasty maybe cure.
I never played the game.
I haven't seen many people complain that Joel is soft so much as softer than the game, which to me just meant more nuanced and multi-dimensional.
That being said, Joel beat a Fedra officer to a pulp in ep1 for Ellie (who he didn't even know), and of course he had a goal in mind to reach his brother, but that was violent and that's just to say I never thought Joel seemed soft, nor that his finale transition was at all by surprise.
I wish it could have been 10-12eps, but the complaint is purely is because I want more and for it to pace more slowly, but ultimately this is a 9/10 series to me.
Marlene knew what Joel was capable of and decided to piss him off.
He had mandalorian armor on 😂😂
We didn't need to know how Ellie became immune? 🤔 I haven't played the games, but for a show focused on the character's immunity that seems to be a pretty important topic to get into.
I thought the episode was good but maybe the least under some other episodes like last weeks or ep 3 for example. I think this one needed to be just a little longer but not too much. Looking forward to the next few seasons when they come. Pedro and Bella deserve recognition for this season.🙏
Yeah episode 3 was amazing, just didn’t need to watch 2 bearded men kiss for so long lol
@@SunnyLovetts well 2 men kissing was not the problem if that's what you are saying. The finale just needed to be longer.
I agree the last episode needed to be longer it felt rushed it needed to at least be an hour long or an hour and 30 minutes.
@@SerialChiller12101 I think an hour would've been fine. Hour and half was too long leave that for the first episode.
Yes it is a video game adaptation, but very much like Until Dawn - it was a story based video game. Not quite as many quick time events as Until Dawn but it was very much story first/game second. Yah there was some parts where aim mattered, etc. but it was not game first, story second like Mortal Kombat, etc.
Resident Evil really had a chance to do something great, but it never really materialized. The original Resident Evil was decent (with Jovovich) but still had so much room for improvement. Had they made a series out of the latest movie instead, it could've been just as good. Resident Evil IMO was much more terrifying in the fact that we created the virus. It's never clearly identified in the Last of Us (at least the original) and it's possible humans led to it (flour/grain is all that's mentioned) but it wasn't purposely done as it was in RE.
If I hear Korey say Mary Ann one more time...
Who is Mary Anne, Korey? 🤣
Joel is definitely in the wrong, but I get why he did it. Honestly, I blame the Fireflies though. They ambushed them and prepped her for surgery without the 2 of them going on. If they sat down and talked it out, I'm sure Ellie would've gone through with it. If she protested then I can see everything playing the same way. They knew who Joel was and took a risk not letting walking away knowing he was against it.
the moral greyness this show's ending had is like the moral greyness The Watchmen had, where both sides are wrong and both sides are right. All we can hope for is that anything that happens after the event is for the better.