Who is the strongest Souls character?
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2022
- Ashen One vs Tarnished vs Sekiro (Wolf) - Who wins?
Out of all the Souls (and associated) games, which player character is the strongest?
Wanna see Gael suplex Vendrick? Godwyn yeet Allant? Of course you do: • Who is the strongest S...
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![Chosen Undead vs Good Hunter - Who wins? [Part 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YeT8hLvF0d0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Chosen Undead vs Good Hunter - Who wins? [Part 1]](/img/tr.png)
In regards to the topic of Destined Death / The Rune of Death in Elden Ring, please see this video on the subject! ua-cam.com/video/dOAA0x_4_Kg/v-deo.html
could you just use the charcters at there endgame
well the tarnished vs the chosen undead
well i think since the tarnished has destined death which can permenate kill( killed for good) and the rune of death
exploded on his face and was only knockout with bruise or wounds nothing
i meant to say the tarnished wins
well for me i think the elden beast/greaterwill was weaken when queen marika shatter the elden ring/elden beast which weaken it and the only reason the elden beast fights the tarnished, because its want to claim its great runes you collected and return to its prime
Isn't the good hunter technically "immortal" too? I know he can be "killed" (taken out of the dream by Gehrman and them) but even if the good hunter gets killed they return to the dream and If they are taken out of the dream and killed, the dream just restarts (ng+) so could wolf take away the good hunters "immortality"? With the mortal blade?
I don't think so. The fight would just last eternity.
The good hunter effectively cannot die permanently at all, while the others can.
@@SnorlaxBear Isn't the good hunter technically "immortal" too? I know he can be "killed" (taken out of the dream by Gehrman and them) but even if the good hunter gets killed they return to the dream and If they are taken out of the dream and killed, the dream just restarts (ng+) so could wolf take away the good hunters "immortality"? With the mortal blade?
I don't think so. The fight would just last eternity.
The good hunter effectively cannot die permanently at all, while the others can.
tbh strayed from armored core for answer clowns on all of em
he's like 100x faster than these bozos and carries comically sized guns
plus, kojima radiation will turn them into piles of sludge
no spells in any souls game have the range or velocity to hit a NEXT
Sekiro defeated Mist noble
Tarnished killed Soldier of Godrick
Chosen undead soloed Pinwheel
now its really hard to decide
@Moyai Drip well the ashen one killed the deacons of the deep
Bearer of the Curse withstood a full power Prowling Magus AND the Congregation. Strong and politically savvy
@@Lucy2Juicy Not to mention that time it squashed a vanguard of Royal Rats. Dethroning not one but multiple beings with royal blood.
@Moyai Drip i DIE more to crystal sage than abyss watchers and a lot of other bosses.
@@capperbuns bruh😂😭😂😭 how
Tarnished beats Soldier of Godrick. No one else has, thus they are by far the most powerful.
Chosen undead beats pinwheel so they are relative
Pinwheel has thrice the brains of anyone else
@@sypher3492 yeah but wolf takes on mist noble and the hunter kills the stand in for the player (the living failures) so they’re both pretty high contenders
@@ASmartNameForMe for sure
God damn it i commented this but you said it first
Patches > all. He's immortal and literally title drops the game in his Ringed City Dialogue. Can't beat that.
my headcanon is that he got isekaid after dying in armored core and now everytime he dies he ends Up in another universe
This is the real answer
To be fair, he's not the player character. But yes, Patches always finds a way to win. Kill him, and he'll just return in another universe, maybe as a spider.
@@ranbojd1070 As someone who plays PAtches in the games, his constant being pulled into places (like the painting and Manus), yup, he's a isekai bro. 😆
Patches has a giant Robot in Armored core
He solos every Non Armored core protag
Imagine one of them fights the Tarnished for a while, the Tarnished has been bombarding them with Rivers of Blood spam, tons of magic, and getting on Torrent when needed. They've tried everything and the Tarnished just keeps pressing them. And then the Tarnished literally summons a clone of itself with more health and infinite mp. Or it summons 3 fucking wolves that take tons of hits to die. Or a powerful knight that gives you cancer. Or another powerful knight that teleports.
The Tarnished is so OP gameplay wise that the developers made by far the hardest bosses in the series and you can still just utterly clean them if you use every advantage you have
This is an actual point many people in the comments section aren't considering the bosses in elden ring are some the toughest bosses to date and also according "souls veterans" unfair and unfun fights because of the sheer ammount of resources, weapons and spirit summons you can use to level the playing field.The Tarnished is truly OP because they are a culmanation of everything fromsoft has allowed players to do in the past with major enhacements to the player characters abilities.
ain’t gone lie tarnished can use watever harry potter magic he want Wolf still goin crazy on him sekiro a different beast.
It would be hilarious to see an interaction between the MC's battle. Like, all of them dress in badass outfits while tarnished only wears a white mask and a loincloth. Then stabbing himself with two curved swords
@@swagiro824 mf forgets about RoB & Moonveil
This video's about lore not weapons
Wolf didn’t collapse when he unsheathed the mortal blade, he died.
Generally speaking, you will collapse when you die
@@SilverMont same energy as "people die when they are killed" also i think Varre was tearing of your finger nail, and there's a big arguement against fast and slow pain. A suddenly broken bone might not hurt, because of the burst of adrenaline and shock, where as if someone slowly twisted your leg before it broke it's gonna hurt like hell.
It's hard to determine their exact levels of "pain tolerance" - that was just something that stood out to me, I remember our character having a tantrum when Varre did his thing, whereas Wolf is extremely stoic.
@@SilverMont Wolf gets a 7 foot spear jammed inside his chest, does a ugh, and gets back up
Since Wolf has Kuros blood he basically did just collapse.
My brain says the Foul Tarnished but my heart says the One-armed Wolf. He became my favorite main character the moment he took the tear from the Divine Dragon so gently.
I wouldn’t call that gentle when someone stab me all the way in the eye with a katana.
Shura Wolf is very OP
game play wise wolf would destroy all them, since he could go toe to toe with malania without having to cheese or back off. Also he has far more mobility and probably runs faster than torrent from just looking at the two.
@@yourmomlol9654 if you wanna get technical, it wasn’t a katana
The tarnished could easily win against every from soft guys except for armoured core.
His immortality has no penalty nor negative effects. Like the chosen undead and the bearer of the curse.
The ashen one has some pretty loose hollowfication as well. But still can be hollowed.
They could kill each other til all the three drak souls heroes turned hollow and thats it. While the tarnished could just go back to life without any ramifications.
Though that said this is why i love ds2. Game play wise it ain't the best ds. But in terms endearing characters they have lucatiel and shannalot and even the bearer of the curse himself. He's just a guy who fought all this monsterousity not because of a prophecy or duty.
But for himself just so he could go back home. Plus most npc in ds2 aren't manipulative cunts. Most of them are therr to offer companionship to the bearer of the curse. And just like him they also came to drangiliec to go back home or find a love one. Even the powerful entities like vendrick and aldia in ds2 are not even trying to manipulate you. They even question you and ask for your opinion.
Those who literally tell you what to do were clearly the villains. Like nashandra when you first meet her she orders you to kill vendrick.
Consider also that the tarnished hasn't truly completed their journey yet. Until we see some DLC we truly have no idea of the strength that the tarnished can accumulate.
Elden ring is the easiest game to one shot bosses on.
@@capperbuns ong tho
@@capperbuns That's the nature of an open world game that lets you go build crazy. You can find some really wacky shit to do. Especially when you can choose what order to fight things, also the fact it's an RPG you can level up and upgrade your gear in. Sekiro on the other hand, you can't one shot bosses due to the way the game was designed and the combat within. Other Soulsbourne games do require more work to achieve the same or similar levels of cheese you can do in ER.
The Tarnished has galaxy level scaling so he or she should already stat stomp everyone
@@capperbuns that’s because he can buff himself to hell and Elden Ring isn’t in a world where everything is already fucked up. You do get to fight some enemies in their prime or enemies that got stronger by embracing certain outer gods. You even fight an avatar of an outer god and a manifestation of that outer god. Sekiro characters are the weakest when it comes to actual feats. I also don’t see anyone beating Godfrey so casually like the tarnished does. As he says if the tarnished used everything he could use. It’s not even a fair fight, max level characters in the other games are strong but let’s be honest. Previous souls games had some dookie bosses that you only needed a sword and shield to clear the game. It’s not a bad option in elden ring but ER has so many different builds that people can make tailored to how they want to play the game.
Marika is said to have slain the Giant's One Eyed God herself, which probably means she defeated the strongest version of it and then sealed it in the last Fire Giant.
The giant eye we see on the fire giant is their God
@@jemarcoballard6911 not exactly.
The giant eye in the fire giant is just as much a god as the scarlet rot that's inside Malenia. That is to say it's only the power of the god that shows through their chosen scion. Not the god itself.
@@rod4309 You could argue that the scarlet rot once had its own scion akin to that of the Elden beast as well. We learn about it through the scorpion stinger dagger. Defeated and sealed away by none other than Malenias later master.
While we don’t always see a Scion/avatar of the outer gods, I think it’s safe to say they could harness one if they chose. Or perhaps they can only manifest when they are the one in charge of the Elden ring.
It probably depends on how invested they are in the lands between, too. Then again, maybe Malenia's master went to the one place not corrupted by capitalism.... Space! And fought the rot god there.
Probably not though.
If we are talking speed feats, the hunter can literally dodge bullets and wolf can casually block them with his sword.
Edit: Before anyone wants to leave another reply about how all Dark Souls characters are lighting timers or whatever, no. Dark Souls characters can’t actually move at the speed of lighting. When a character dodges a lighting spear, they’re not dodging a projectile moving at the speed of lightning, they are dodging a projectile moving at the speed of a thrown spear. Same with lighting arrows. Still an impressive feat, but not as impressive as dodging a lighting strike (or blocking bullets with a sword). Even when avoiding something like the honed bolt incantation, the character isn’t actually dodging the lightning strike; the character is reacting to the cast and moving out of the way before the lighting starts to strike. Similarly when Sekiro redirects lighting from an enemies attack, he’s not reacting to an attack moving at the speed of lighting, he’s reacting to a standard attack which has been imbued with lighting.
Also to address anyone thinking something like, “The Tarnished can _catch_ lighting in their hand to use it as a projectile during certain dragon cult incantations.” Remember that something being able to get lighting to strike it, doesn’t mean that said thing is actually moving at the speed of lighting and catching it. If that were true things like stationary lighting rods would be considered lightning timers
But can they dodge waterfowl dance tho
The answer is no, GOD HIMSELF wouldn't be able to.
@@Joetheknight406 wolf can definitely parry it
@@Joetheknight406 wolf would literally deflect waterfowl with ease.
T'was a joke guys. Learn to take it
@@Joetheknight406 fair point, apologies mate
Bearer of the curse is so OP that they hold themselves back by limiting their i-frames through a stat and drinking the estus flask slower
Not to mention that when they parry someone they completely shatter their opponents will, making them comically fall to the floor in defeat
I do still enjoy that animation. They slapped the attack away so hard the attacker is like ah man time for a rest
Lmao
That parry is pretty sick...Bearer of the curse also has the most Hp...
Lmao this is the best comment I’ve seen so far
Jokes aside.
Speaking from a lore view, Bearer of the curse definitely wins in durability amongst all the Fromsoftware protagonists.
If we consider each character in their prime, then we have to consider Aldia's ending where Bearer is literally immortal, unkillable, and is immune to hollowing.
Considering that we're talking about them at the heights of their power, I find it a bit unfair to Wolf that you didn't mention his Shura form, in which he both the Red Mortal Blade and the Black Mortal Blade, along with MASSIVELY increased physical prowess, considering how much stronger the Sculptor became as a failed Shura.
Shura Wolf probably isn’t immortal anymore, though. It’s highly likely that in his frenzied state he murdered literally everything in Ashina, including Kuro.
Generally speaking, I'm going by how the characters are right before the end, like when they fight the final boss. Because otherwise the Hunter might be a slug and just get stepped on immediately haha
@@SilverMont that's terrible logic if you're going based on their strongest form
@@SilverMont also the hunter kills various eldritch gods interdimensional beings the one reborn, kos's unborn child, and amygdala. Memories being a valid dimension in the Bloodborne universe
@@SilverMont in the Shura ending he has both blades that can kill immortals. What's the difference between the wolf's slashes and a boss in elden rings slashes? You're going based on gameplay but that doesn't hold up in every case for example god of war where simple revenants pose a challenge to kratos even though he can lift a platform that holds an entire reality on it. I love your videos but you have to look at the intricacies rather than gameplay. gameplay is completely different than the lore
Marika did fight. She was the one to take down the last Fire Giant. In my opinion, Elden Ring characters are some of the strongest in the series. Radahn could stop the movement of the *stars,* and Malenia was about as strong as him. Maliketh could just disintegrate anyone with a single slash in his prime, It's ridiculous
Placidusax could also twist time. In fact, his lost scales have some of this power as well. He did lose a lot of power so he's clearly not in his prime when we fight him, but he can still do some crazy stuff.
Malenia was as strong* not "about as"
White mask varre actually breaks your finger
Radahn wins against Malenia, if both are going all out.
@@asta8153 we don't know exactly because both were holding back
Wolf can deflect and actually counter lightning, which in the case of elden ring is parry-able by carian retaliation, so because we never see 'magic' in Sekiro, I don't think we can completely discount his ability to counter magic. I also don't know about the tarnished being able to catch Wolf even on Torrent, because of Wolf's potential of vertical movement in his grapple hook.
Also, if we're assuming that these different protagonists are all at an end-game state, why does it matter that their maiden gets killed, as they're already leveled up enough anyway?
I believe Genichiro’s (but not Isshin’s) use of lightening is magic. While we don’t know much about Tomoe, or her special heretical arts, but Genichiro seems to summon the lightening using their art, and uses it to attack you. This differs from Isshin, because he is just so badass that he times the lightening strike in time to redirect it to you. Let’s ask not forget that Wolf learns how to counter lightening by reading a simple legend on the wall. Wolf also deals with Shichimen Warriors and Headless, which use supernatural abilities such as projections of energy (underwater headless) using the souls of the dead as projectiles (shichimen warriors) and teleportation (both.) Wolf also dealt with the Demon of Hatred, which is another supernatural opponent that can manipulate, and create fire. He can deal with all of these using certain prosthetic upgrades, or items he’s gathered in his journey. I’m not entirely sure Genichiro uses magic, but I think the aberration type enemies pretty plainly use magic in some shape or form.
@@BobOnACob123 i mean genichiro litteraly had a lighning strike hit his sword so ima say he summons it
Well Tarnished does canonically lose Melina via Fire Giant fire and she even said she leaves the power to turn runes to strength with you and you can still level after she's gone.
i mean wolf went up against magic before and has no counter for it. he cant parry the lady butterfly's illusion kunai nor can he block it. I have little reason to believe that the same logic doesnt apply to magic from the other games.
@@BenjerminGaye But he can parry the lazers from the shichimen warriors (or however you write it)
Sekiro is the only one who could fight any of the bosses toe to toe simply based on gameplay. Where all the others rely on I frames or hitting and backing off, he can take anything but grab attacks frontward. Also take into account his mobility (runs as fast as torrent) and prosthetic (better than malanias) he would dominate.
Have you fought bosses with AOEs or grabs in Sekiro? He needs to hit and back off a lot too.
@@c0n33r Umbrella parries AoE attacks, and Mist Raven punishes grabs
@@c0n33r Most bosses have like two grab attacks and unlike ds or er you never need to dodge regular attacks if you parry all of them. If you are sub par with your parries or get guard broken you might want to back off but watch someone who has mastered the combat and they won't even take chip damage. All other games in the series requires reliance on I frames.
Yeah that’s why I like Sekiro, you have to actually play aggressively to get anywhere, not overly aggressive but just the right amount that you aren’t jumping and dodging every 2 seconds.
Very solid argument no joke, but +10 mimic tear would like a word
Okay, hard stop at around 10:30. I can not in ANY capacity, believe Gwyn to be on par with the Elden Beast due to what the lore describes in Elden Ring. It's been more than slightly hinted that the Elden Beast is on par with the ENTIRE FIRST FLAME. Since, it can be inferred that all of the golden order, the ring, etcetera, is this worlds First Flame, and the beast is responsible for that. FIghting the Elden Beast is on par with fighting the whole first flame. Also keep in mind that Radahn, was able to CONQUER AND HOLD ALL OF THE STARS, METEORS, AND POTENTIAL PLANETS IN THE OBSERVABLE UNIVERSE AND HOLD THEM IN PLACE, EVERYONE SEEMS TO FORGET THIS. And granted, we do not fight him in his prime, hell, I hope in some way we can cause god that would be epic. But, the Elden Beast as we see them, is made of the observable universe and stars, if we're to examine this, it could be inferred that bitch is launching STARS AND SPACE MATTER AT US AND IS USING THE FULL POWER OF A GOD NEARLY ON PAR WITH GWYN TO BEAT US TO DEATH WITH. I am sorry, but in no way, shape, or form is Gwyn more powerful than the Elden Beast. I can give him COMBAT experience and martial prowess, that I can give and accept. But raw unfiltered POWER goes to the Elden Beast, hands DOWN NO CONTEST.
EXACTLY. Which is why everyone is seriously underestimating the dark souls characters. THE FIRST FLAME IS ON PAR WITH ELDEN RING. The fire 🔥 in dark souls is the creator of that reality. It’s what begins and ends everything. The shadows of the flame begets the dark as well…and all things that come from that. Gwyn, when he had the full power of the first flame, was able to create a whole new world out of the dead and formless void that existed. The flame and those who are it’s conduit are essentially the God of that universe. It’s the same thing.
And who knows which ‘creator’ and associated creation is stronger. What if dark souls universe is literally LARGER than the elden ring one. Like imagine the erd tree is just one of the many trees in ash lake (but nobody in elden ring can even see that or know this) and yet the chosen undead is like a 5th dimensional creature that can pass through them like it’s nothing. What if dark souls is the outer world and the elden beast is simply a creature from ash lake like the hydra that the chosen undead could kill wayyyyy easier. This would make the first flame no longer on par but potentially infinitely stronger as it’s the God to the multiverse which the god of elden ring came from
In that case ^ To the tarnished and their world the elden beast is a god but to the creatures in dark souls it’s just another miniboss xD
i think you mean greater will is on par with first flame.
@@mikaelaincase2157 bruh😑
@@chongliyang4044 Not really.
In this comparison. The First Flame would best represent The Elden Ring.
Therefore Elden Beast is the First Flame, both of which became hugely significant entities that heavily influenced the growth their respective worlds.
The Greater Will would instead be a whole tier above The Elden Beast and First Flame.
Gael styles on all of them imo. Bro has the soul of *everything to ever exist* besides the ashen one's.
An interesting counter I feel you missed is that wolf can grapple gyoubu’s horse to stun him, so we have evidence of horse combat not working too well against him. Kinda fun to think about… but then again gyoubu’s horse can’t double jump so he could pull the horse to the ground or grapple up there with him lmao
Mid air deathblow would like a word
The double jump is also a very effective dodge
Torrent looks much more nimble but also lighter than the massive and armored stallion that Gyobu rode. It would be interesting to see in practice.
Isn't the good hunter technically "immortal" too? I know he can be "killed" (taken out of the dream by Gehrman and them) but even if the good hunter gets killed they return to the dream and If they are taken out of the dream and killed, the dream just restarts (ng+) so could wolf take away the good hunters "immortality"? With the mortal blade?
I don't think so. The fight would just last eternity.
The good hunter effectively cannot die permanently at all, while the others can.
By the time you find Gwyn in DS1 he's a shell of his former self after using himself to kindle the flame, it makes no sense to assume that he would be stronger than Marika/Elden Beast/Radagon, they are 3 entities in one and you fight two of them, the physical form of a god and a famed warrior granted more power by that same god, it makes no sense to assume that only one of them is powerful.
Remember that Gwyn was only as powerful as he was in the ancient times because he got one lord soul from the first flame, which he split and gave away long before he sacrificed himself to the flame and we fought him in a far weaker state.
You focus on where they get their strength to a weird degree, like if we're talking about fighting ability then it shouldn't be relevant unless everyone gets random breaks to go farm enemies and level up.
Lets also not forget that the Tarnished killed all of the demigods, including a general so powerful that he could hold the stars in the sky through sheer willpower, an immortal serpent that absorbed the power of countless powerful warriors, 2 monstrous rulers who were each granted power by a god, the best swordsman in the series who ascends to godhood in the middle of the fight, and even a great warrior serving directly under a god wielding the power to kill anything, including other gods. The only things really all that comparable to that are The Chosen Undead fighting Nito, the only Lord to not destroy himself before the fight, and Manus, and The Ashen One fighting the Soul of Cinder and Slave Knight Gael.
The Tarnished has more tools and way better feats than anyone else.
Hoarah Loux slams prime Gwyn
@@annoyingdog6128 nah id say they are on par. Being able to stomp the ground is nothing compared to lightning, especially considering lightning is what Godfrey/Loux is most weak too.
And, afaik, Nito was heavily weakened due to Pinwheel, as well as the First Flame having nearly gone out when the Soul of Cinder, its manifestation, defends it
to be honest, that is what is so captivating about Gwyn, despite being a hollow shell that saw him even forgetting to use spells, he still has moves to contend despite this and even kill the chosen undead multiple times that has wielded the souls of the lords of lordran and like many of the things the chosen undead fought, and in a way, makes you think more that a hollowed gwyn can kill radagon and also the elden beast is not radagon and marika, they are very different, only marika and radagon are two in one body, like hulk and bruce banner. Meanwhile Elden Beast is one of there god as there more.
@@tc-channelhobby4051 radagon takes 3 parries gwyn takes 1
Also immortality is a thing in Elden Ring because the rune of death was removed from the ring to create the golden order. So the mortal blade could not kill the tarnished because death simply did but exist in the lands between.
You still die I think just return to the tree but with the rune of death unsealed then it's permanent don't know if that's what happens but that's what I got from Vati vids
The Rune of Death = Destined Death = God Slaying Black Flame. By itself, it doesn't govern life and death, I am fairly certain. It's just the only thing that was capable of slaying demi-gods, so Marika hid it away after taking it from the Gloam Eyed Queen.
Don't ask me why we're able to kill demi-gods such as Radahn without it, haha. That's just one of those lore:gameplay inconsistencies.
@@SilverMont there is nothing in when ring that says the rune of death was hidden from the gloam eyed queen.. infact also e theorist believe Marika Is the gloam eyed queen. Next there NOTHING that put the gods slaying black flame and destined death together.
@@SilverMont and how are you certain? The lack of true death in Elden ring is DIRECTLY LINKED IN-GAME to the absence of destined death (the rune of death and destined death are the EXACT same thing. A RUNE.)
@@Erick-ue6fh alright so following your logic, dying after beating maliketh means you can no longer respawn since you unleashed death back on the lands between including yourself. if the resurrection power of the tarnished was based on the lack of destined death then you would have one single try to beat gideon, godfrey and the elden beast and then your run is over since your character is dead
Wolf have a big advantage with Loaded Umbrella for tanking stuff like magic, it seems to take everything the game can throw at it without taking damage
Ambush shard!
I will save you some time and tell you its John Darksouls, protagonist of the hit series Dark Souls.
He's actually tied with the titular Sheldon J. Ring of elden ring fame but either character counts.
Have you ever seen tarnished and chosen undead in the same room? Exactly, they're the same person which means they have double the power. Math moment
same room?
*male undead moaning sound*
I've never seen anyone of them in the same room lol. Maybe it's just one person?
When scaling the protagonists of each game against the foes they've defeated, I really think the Tarnished wins. Godfrey conquered most of the Lands Between and was known for his strength and power. From my understanding, this is why he was cast aside in favor of Radagon. Godfrey was such a beast that he defeated all his opponents and his warrior skills were no longer needed. There was literally nobody left to fight. And the Tarnished beat that guy in a fight. Also, (spoilers) since Radagon is Marika, doesn't that count as fighting her in a way? I suppose since we don't know how the transformation\conjoining thing works, I can't say for certain. Regardless, I would say Godfrey is on par with Gwyn, and if not, Radagon/Marika certainly is.
A free for all with Godfrey, Radagon, and Gwyn would be badass.
and not forget that the tanished kills malenia and radahn, they 2 are almost god of the war, and u just go and destroy it, he defeat the elden beast in a 1v1, a fucking beast that come from the space, kill the first old elden ring that is a fucking dragon, the tanished is just so far of the table of power compared with the other souls game
The elden beast is also a manifestation of the greater will and far more powerful than any mortal in the lands between, this is even supported by Gideon Ofnir.
The hunter has literally killed eldritch gods
Yeah the hunter from Bloodborne kills multiple extra dimensional gods
If we're talking about protagonists, I would say the tarnished. Characters in general? I would say the soul of cinder considering ds2 makes it clear that the age of fire would never end meaning that the soul of cinder gets infinitely stronger with passing time and flame linking.
The bearer of the curse is the Strongest undead with the unhollowing ending
Also if you think about it the soul of cinder gets weaker of time as the souls degrade and the world turns to ash
@@Asterion_Mol0c the souls do get weaker, however, there will always be one that may defeat the soul of cinder. The soul of cinder can never truly perish, though. With the one defeating the soul of cinder linking the flame, they eventually become the soul of cinder themselves but twice as strong as they were before.
@@sworammu1082 by the time of Gael it might just be smouldering ash
@@Asterion_Mol0c how would that be the case if there's still flame in his time? As long as the first flame exists, there will always be fire, and as the soul of cinder is an avatar of the first flame, the soul of cinder should still exist.
the great ones in bloodborne can literally manipulate time and space, so the hunter becoming the new moon presence literally makes them an all powerfull eldritch god. even if the hunter chooses to submit to the moon presence and become the new host of the dream, they'd still be super aggressive and fast. The tarnished comes close in second in my opinion.
That same Moon Presence got killed by a normal human. Bloodborne is dead last here. The Chosen Undead, Bearer Of The Curse, Unkindled, and Tarnished can all kill Gods and in a lot of ways are themselves Gods.
@@TheStraightestWhitest
Demon Souls MC who can consume the souls of... Well... All souls: "That's fine. I'll put my Demon Brand and Soul Brand away."
Fun Fact: Demons in this game are not like Dark Souls' Demons. They are just people or vessels who house powerful souls. Soul Brand and Demon Brand make a distinction between a human or creature with many souls Vs a manifestation of souls.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 the arch demons are crazy they are abstracts in nature and slayer of demons just kills them and consumes their souls
@@sypher3492
When you think about it... Demon's Souls is the better world to live in, compared to the others. As long as people don't drown into madness or evil. Then Arch Demons can manifest into a Light Tendency.
Just don't be chosen by the Nexus to one day, face the Great One.
Unlike the other worlds which are screwed in a predestined fate or face forces beyond normal capability that it would be ironic to ask a God for power in order to slay other Gods who CHOSE to intervene.
The Great One in Demon's Souls is more of a cause and an effect situation. And any Soul can master Soul Arts. Unlike the other games where it's dependant on the Era for Miracles, Insight from Eldritch Abominations/events, or whichever God is in control.
And unlike Sorceries in the other games, all Spells are Soul Arts but not all Soul Arts are Spells, despite the lies from the Church etc.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 yea true also the great one you are referring to is called old one not great one and yea the arch demons are literally embodiments of people’s thoughts and beliefs in demon souls
All mc’s square off standing opposite to one another:
Chosen undead - “do you guys have this?” *brings out moonlight greatsword*
Bearer of the Curse - “Yeah actually I got one.” *brings out moonlight greatsword*
Ashen One - “Is that even real?”
BotC - “Yeah totally… why wouldn’t it be?”
CU - “Now that you mention it, it doesn’t look very… magicy”
AO - “Yeah like… does it even fire any moon beams or somethi-“
BotC - “Yeah yeah alright. I bet you don’t even have one.
AO - “Oh sorry hang on…” *rummages through things. Brings out Moonlight greatsword*
“Here’s mine. See look.”
*begins slinging moon lasers everywhere*
CU & BotC - “Hey! Stop! Calm down! What the hell are you doing stop!”
*barrage of lasers ceases*
AO - “Sorry it’s just so cool y’know. Can’t help myself”
*Hunter walks up to group*
BotC - “Don’t tell me you have one too…”
CU - “Ha that wouldn’t even make any se-“
*Hunter brings out moonlight greatsword as the other mc’s stare in confusion*
Hunter - “I have a gun too. Actually I have a few guns. Do you guys have those?”
*mc’s look awkwardly at each other in silence*
Tarnished - “Hey guys I’ve got two!”
*Holding up two Moonlight greatswords above his head*
*All mc’s stare at Tarnished before they including Tarnished all look to their side to see Wolf*
Wolf - “look uuh I think I’m just gonna sit this one out guys you have fun and all.”
*grapple hooks away”
BotC “No fair he gets a grapple hook?”
Tarnished (still holding swords up) - “I have a horse!”
CU, BotC, AO, Hunter - “Shut up!”
* Credits ensue before random kings field guy shows up late to the party*
Kings Field Guy - “Hey guys I’ve got one t-“
End
Tarnished then pulls out the moonlight katana and spams them all
« I have a horse! »
I mean so did ludwig and it didn’t really help him
@@whozurdaddyva gets death blowed after killing everyone else. Wolf just got the whole arsenal
🤓
C4-621:
I think the Gwyn comparison is a little flawed while Radagon(who was definitely an acomplished champion and mastered both faith and intelligence based magic) may fall short of him, Godfrey is a much better comparison IMO. Compared to Gwyn he's much more "just a dude", yet he absolutely demolished everyone Marika pointed him towards. Horah Loux, King of Grapplers is easily on the same tier of martial prowess as Gwyn. And when you beat him, he's much much closer to his true power than Gwyn. Also, he's cooler.
That’s the most important part, right? Gwyn’s a sad old man. Horoah Loux, WAAARRRRIIOORRR, is a prime WWE champion who’s there to test your mettle and rip your goddamn head off if you don’t have what it takes. He’s definitely cooler.
Facts except he would be even more beyond gwyn since he didnt seem to rely on any magic to bring down similar foes that gwyn had fought or subjugated
Everyone always seems to forget that it was Marika herself he killed the Fell God of the giants.
She's clearly a warrior too, and having killed a whole nother god puts her above Gwyn imo.
Gwyn is just way too powerful for us to realize, remember that we essentially fight the burnt ashes of an eggshell and he still has more health and damage than a majority of bosses. He just is way too strong for us to realize.
Ancient dragons were stronger than him though and thats why its so bullshit to me, they are just beyond the realm of fairness. It took EVERY FUCKING GOD AND STRONG PERSON WORKING TOGETHER TO BEAT THEM, AND THEY DIDN'T EVEN DO IT COMPLETELY. THEY HAD MULTIPLE GODS AND NEW TECHNIQUES EVEN A FUCKING TRAITOR AND THEY COULDN'T KILL ALL THE DRAGONS.
This video's pretty awesome I never thought I'd see something like this. Good job!
Note that Wolf lore-wise is plainly immortal, he can't die at all. Obviously they couldn't put that in actual gameplay without trivializing the whole game, but Dragon's Blood makes you immortal and you cannot be killed by anything but a Mortal Blade.
True, but he can't regenerate.
When Genichiro cut his arm, he lost it for good and he needs a prostetic arm after that.
Spirit bell wolf can kinda of counter it with divine confetti. Also wolf’s grappling hook makes it dangerous for the tarnished to run away on horse.
good to hear from you Silver Mont
Man i know its not related to the topic but not having watched your stuff in years your intro felt very nostalgic to hear. Definitly am back as a sub.
This was an awesome video. Thank you for making it. 🤩😍👍👍
Thanks for watching!
Plate armour can not be penetrated after all (katanas can not cut trough plate armour). It`s the best armour to have on you before the invetion of guns
They can penetrate the gaps, still using a sword against plate armor is aways an disavantege
Plate armor can absolutely be penetrated, tho a Katana or Sword in general us a bad choice for it. It was also invented after guns, to stop you from getting shot. Gun tech just eventually outpaced it.
@@calvinwarlick8533 I am preety sure plate armour was invented before guns
@@PhanthomKnight9 why would you think that?
@@calvinwarlick8533 they both showed up in the 12th century in the forms we know of today - full plate and single shot hand cannons. Armor with plates covering the vitals is much older though.
To be fair tho, the flame in ds3 has shown the capability of storing souls in it evident by the fact that the 4 lords rise up again and have their souls within them, it's debatable if they are in thier prime or not or whether it restores the souls fully but we now that it restores at least half of the soul's original power evident by the fact that aldrich is still considered as power as he was before linking the flame if not even more powerful now.
I think evereyone should not be underestimated considering the feats everyone did in their games and honestly i think in an all out fight everyone could really beat everyone but i think if we would put everyone of them against each other for like a hundered times i think the tarnished would win the most rounds just because of the giant arsenal at his disposal.
Wolf can parry things that aren't even parriable. Are you sure the Tarnished's arsenal is a real problem?
@@danielantony1882 im pretty sure tho i havent played sekiro i dont think he can parry stuff like lightning bolts, blackflamme or magic for example
@@dennisdoner5804 You'd be surprised. He might be able to parry Comet Azure for example: ua-cam.com/video/x5YpKMXdPJ8/v-deo.html&ab_channel=%EC%98%B9%EB%B0%9C%EC%9D%B4ONGBAL
@@dennisdoner5804 he is immortal, he can reverse lightning to the caster, fire kinda fucks him I guess
@@dennisdoner5804 He very much can reverse lightning. It's one of his special skills.
great video i would prolly choose the the tarnished since you literally conquer demi gods , gods and ancient dragonlords i think its pretty extraordinary
Due to the nature of the game, many of the bosses demonstrate very similar abilities - whether or not they are referred to as gods isn't too important. After all, if your (mostly) human character ended up killing all these gods, what's that make them? Gwyndolin is effectively a god, and yet he's rather frail. Sword Saint Isshin isn't a god, but he would probably go bananas and solo Gwyn's four demi-god'ish knights at the same time
@@SilverMont have you considered that since a lot of these are based on mythology they work like, well, a myth rather than science? Applying math to myth doesn't really work it's more about just them being like how Heracles despite lifting the sky (conceptual infinite universe to Greeks) he still gets finished by Hydra Poison and shot an arrow at the sun somehow. Or even Sun Wukong jumping to the edge of the universe despite the same story he's from saying that the universe is vast and without end beyond our comprehension.
The point isn't that the characters are just some dude it's that they beat Gods.
I say sekiro has the biggest advantage over all of them due to his ability to learn attacks by looking at them and his tool kit, even without it he has a mortal blade and the ability to deflect anything including magic and reverse the lighting unto whoever he chooses, His speed is unmatched now yes tarnished has a horse but sekiro has a grapple hook that launches him great distances and high speeds. Now Sekiros tools are a different ball game due to the ability to upgrade them, they also give him the ability to dish certain status effects and damage, And dont forget about that umbrella that negate ANY kind of damage, And dont forget about the mist feathers that give him the ability to avoid ANY type of damage and counter attack, Plus he does have his items that can give him a major advantage to any kind of enemy. his candies that give him different effects, his weapon enchanting items, his status effect negating items (and gourds) ,Lady butterfly used soul summons and sekiros snap seeds got rid of them in a snap so the tarnished soul summons are basically useless, plus he has his ninja tactics (im looking at you ball of ash ;)), Sekiro also posses the mortal blade that can sever immortality and remember in the souls series you are undead and immortal ( except for bloodborne I think), I wont get too deep into but the more you look into and dissect it, Sekiro is just the clear winner and outclasses every souls player character. ( Yea Sekiro can swim but that doesn't mean he cant be electrocuted)
A note for your statements on Marika and the Elden Beast not fighting: Marika single handedly killed the god of the Fire Giants. Edit: "This is mentioned in the description of the One-Eyed Shield, where it states "Once worshipped by the giants, this evil deity is believed to have been slain by Queen Marika." It doesn't state exactly that she killed the fell god on her own, but it is most likely the case that she did if she even bothered to show up to fight." Godfrey himself is probably more formidable though as he lead the charge to slay pretty much all of the foes that stood between Marika and total dominion of the lands between.
There is also reason to assume Marika shattering the Elden Ring weakened the Elden Beast (since it is literally the Elden Ring).
Of course, its only speculation, but I imagine the only reason it even wakes up is because the Tarnished brings enough runes back to the Elden Ring.
Did she kill the fell god(fire giant god)? When we fight the fire giant his phase 2 transition is him sacrificing his leg to summon the fell god.
I thought it was Godfrey that killed the fire giants.
@@wind_traveler he did, the guy was just saying that Marika killed the god of the fire giants(the fell god)
According to the One Eyed Shields item description "Once worshipped by the giants, this evil deity is believed to have been slain by Queen Marika."
I am partial to believe that it is true that she fought the Fell-God, but failed to recognize that if any fire giant were to survive, so too would their god.
@@Chyguy no I don't think that's it, she beat him but didn't kill him. She probably knew that all fire giants are basically vessels for the fell god, but left one alive so it could protect the fire. She also wiped any history of the giants, there's a reason it's called "fire giant" and not "the fire giant" or "protector of the fire".
Very entertaining video 👌
Guessing ahead of time...the tarnished is pretty OP due to all their game breaking magical abilities, and the hunter has become a lovecraftian god, but Sekiro could likely beat them all due to his inhuman speed and ability to counter almost everything from bullets to curses. Theres also the fact he can die two or three times.
Storywise wolf can die as much as he wants, I guess the only real limit would be if EVERYONE in the world got sick with dragonrot
@@valytheking3863 inb4 he kill the other protags by dying a lot and give them dragonrot.
@@shira_yone huh, you're creative
@@valytheking3863all the characters can do that story wise
@@shira_yoneThe Tarnished uses scarlet rot
You could argue that snap seeds might get rid of spirit summons tbh and wolf can deflect some magic attacks loaded spear also pulls loose armor something to consider
Wolf has a lot of counters to the tarnished, scarlet rot? Contact medicine, projectiles, fire and spells? People always forget about shields, yes the tarnished can also jump and use katanas! He can try if he wants the moment he jumps its over and even you gotta agree that wolf is a better sword fighter, summons! If only someone knew some kind of ninjutsu or something that could control enemies like puppets, stealth is underrated and wolf can just revive in the spot.
I doubt the medicine would work on scarlet rot tbh it’s incurable even by miquella I don’t think the umbrella can deflect or block star magic but fire definitely
@@joyless95 Umbrella deflect literally all magic and physical attacks in the game.
Plus Sekiro only need Mortal Blade
Ah yes scarlet rot is not cure able… Who’s gonna tell him about the fact that there is legit a consumable in game that cures it
@@tactician9730 lore wise it’s not
Um explain Millicent then
Demon Souls: Soul Brand and Demon Brand are very interesting since the concepts of Demons is not like Angels and Demons. It's an amalgam of powerful souls housed inside one vassal... Thus, the MC of Demon's Souls could be a trump card against the DS1/2/3 MC.
Dark Souls Series: It's the same MC in a different time at a different place. The "right to be kindled" is not a constant right so the MC could have lost it then regained it. That's probably the same reason as to why Self Leveling was forgotten by the MC after so many deaths and incarnations. Even the world has grown weaker for Miracles during DS3.
Bloodborne: Extra dimensional things... ... ... Interesting but it has the Lich problem. If the Hunter's true body is killed, then without the help of greater Eldritch Gods. The Hunter dies. However, by the end of the true story. The Hunter becomes an Eldritch God, whatever that will manifest into.
Elden Ring: Without the Greater Will or other Outer Gods. The Tarnish is just a mortal with no real power to defend against other Outer Gods or encounters from the other games. Even the Elden Ring will not work without the Greater Will if it's reforged again.
As for who is the strongest MC?... ... ... That would the MC from Demon's Souls.
The only reason is because how each games gives their MC immortality (lore wise).
In Demon's Souls, you are either tied eternally to the Nexus or you incarnate from the strength of souls collected. And maybe one day, you can replace the Great One. The down side is. If enough people believe in something, then that something will manifest in the physical world. Which usually devours the souls of those who brought it into the physical world. Not to mention that you do have a Soul Form.
For the Dark Souls series... The MC is only immortal because of Gwyn's mistake to disrupt the cycle. And at the final end of time when his mistake force awakens the previous ones who successfully linked the fire. Beyond those two factors, the MC is just a mortal. Unlike the Four Great Souls who exist in true singularity.
For Elden Ring... ... ... Hire another Outer God after dumping the Greater Will. Otherwise, you won't last one era of cosmic time. lol
I disagree about elden ring. To me, it's clear that the elden ring is an independant source of power, seeing how you can go against the greater will's, well, will, by burning the tree, mending runes, or burn everything using the power of the exact opposite of the greater will, all without the ring loosing it's power or you getting deleted from existence.
That's the reason it's vassal, the elden beast, exist: the greater will is too far, someone gotta do it for him. The elden beast and the elden ring are also well separated, seeing how the beast use it as a weapon as marika is hosting it (now as a sword).
I ultimately do not see your point of some mc being just mortals. All of those games are about a mortal defeating gods, the source of their immortality may be different degrees of fancy, but it all works fundamentally the same. I don't see an edge, unless you use the player remplacing the Great One. But I don't think we'll be seeing the same dude then...
@@thegk-verse4216
By mending the Great Rune. You've forsaken the Greater Will. You've lost your immortality as it was given by it. No matter the ending, you defied a true God but you won't live long enough to face its true soul.
As for the other MCs... Lore Wise... Their immortality is not the same. Not even close. Demon's Souls has the Nexus and the power of souls. Dark Souls has the Dark Sign because Gwyn broke the cycle on purpose, and you are not of the Four Great Souls. And Bloodborne has the Eldritch Gods with their dimensions to house your true soul/body. (Excluding Sekiro since I know nothing of its lore.)
The Tarnish is but a mortal without the gift of Grace or of another Outer God. Destined Death will find you again... But that amount of time is too long for the Tarnish.
But to reforge the Elden Ring? Although it predates the Golden Tree, you will sacrifice your ability to level up if you intend to reforge it at full potential. Or at least, the Tarnish will be the only one who can level up. Since the Runes will no longer fall upon the world.
Unlike the other MCs where their worlds can be strengthens independently, to a degree. No need for Runes or Echos. Only Souls. Despite some things being forgotten in time.
And as for Demon's Souls with it's endings. The Great One is merely a vessel of souls. Just like the MC. It's not impossible that one would become the next Great One. Given how the lore explains the Demons and Soul Arts.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 the tarnished could inherit the frenzied flame couldn’t they?
@@skinless5136
Yes... But the Tarnish would only be a vessel. Not a true Lord of the Frenzy Flame with Free Will. And the Tarnish is not an Empyrean; thus, cannot become a true God.
Bruh that was a super fun video you my friend have earned a new sub 👍
Btw tarnished have a lot of spells, weapon, potions, equipment, etc they have a big advantage
Lore wise...
Demon Souls MC has true Immortality in the form of Souls and the Nexus. As well as Soul Arts which is every Spell and not every Soul Art is shown to the player. They can also consume souls and derive power from it.
Dark Souls 1/2/3 MC is the same but without Soul Arts and the Nexus. But their Immortal Soul (after consuming the Four Great Souls) and their Dark Sign. Along with 3 games worth of items... Is a force to devour Gods.
The Good Hunter is a multidimensional threat by the end of the game after the true ending, where they become an Eldritch God. However, killing their true soul/true body will put an end to their cosmic interventions.
The Tarnish depends on the endings but they inevitably lose the Greater Will. Given each ending, they might also lose the Elden Ring itself + locking out most Outer Gods, become the vessel of the Frenzy Flame (guaranteed), or keep the Elden Ring (the Queen) as the Elden Lord. However, you are still a mortal because the Greater Will left and Destined Death is reunited with the Elden Ring. Granted, because you're not an Elysium. You'll have to find another way to become a true God.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 wow that's really cool you gave me a really good and short in-depth explanation 👍 plus I like the ranking so if you put it in lore the slayer of demons is the strongest mc 🤔 fun fact I have played all souls games apart from sekiro which am hyped to start playing tomorrow
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 and I really thought that the tarnished is the strongest because of the vast amount of spells and weapons and the feats to kill outer gods and become an outer god of the frenzy ourselves
@@hadialkhalifa5688
For the Frenzy Flames... You don't become an Outer God. "It" incarnates from you as you are its vessel... The Frenzy Flame is its own Outer God.
And since you didn't put back Destined Death in the Elden Ring for this ending. You only destroyed all but Destined Death. Leaving nothing but ash and Melena left. (Among other characters who survived the Frenzy Flame.)
The Elden Ring is now completely destroyed. Only Destined Death remains. Unlike Rani's ending, where the completed Elden Ring is atomized (given to) upon the cosmos.
The Tarnished kinda does have a tool for every occasion, huh? Makes them a great all-rounder
"I went to check out the reaction of Wolf when he gets his arm cut off, and all he says is: Tis but a scratch!"
It was not a significant wound
Honestly I wanna see more of this discussion because I personally want to see people fight to the death on who they think is the strongest
Interesting video, well presented, cheers 🎶✌
The elden beast is described as being the living embodiment of the concept of order in the remembrance i think, but that would make the tarnished like 5th dimensional
5th dimensional would mean you're above time. Being the concept of order doesn't necessarily make you above it.
This was an interesting kind of video, and gameplay wise, I would say that the Tarnished is by far the best off. However story wise, based on what I know, the Hunter, the Ashen One, and the Tarnished are the strongest as they have all fought gods. At least in some aspect.
In the lore, the characters from Elden Ring have got to be the strongest beings that FromSoft has come up with. As a result, the Tarnished, as Elden Lord, having overcome these beings and literally killed god, is the strongest without a doubt.
If we assume That the characters have beaten the game, then the tarnished/their consort can dictate the physical laws of the world they hold influence over, by manipulating the Elden Ring.
Not to mention, the Rune of death, and Black Flame, both of which are stated to be able to kill gods. The Godskin's are named aptly, and wear the skin of gods, Maliketh killed the Gloam Eyed Queen, who is hinted at being an outer god as well, using the black blade.
Even a fragment of the rune of death is enough to kill a soul and a body (albeit, in two different beings at the same time) at once.
Also, as for war time leadership, Godfrey, Radagon, Maliketh, and the Tarnished's ancestors (under Godfrey) all fought in several wars. It's hinted at, but never explicitly stated that Marika also participated when she was but an Empyrean, but let Godfrey do the fighting after.
Finally, The black blade is supposed to kill permanently, if I understand the lore correctly. Death was removed from the lands between, and the Tarnished is resurrected by the grace given by the Greater will (indirectly). It's not unreasonable to assume that the same state happens when the Elden Ring is repaired, considering that demigods were supposed to be immortal barring the Rune of death as well: This MIGHT transfer to The Elden Lord, but might only remain for Marika or Ranni, depending on the ending.
Flame of Frenzy is a bit odd, It'd replace Marika with the Tarnished directly, instead of making the Tarnished Elden Lord, Meaning that the Tarnished is essentially a direct vessel to an outer god.
Theoretically, only the rune of death can kill that tarnished, possibly the Mortal Blade, never played Sekiro.
And if you are the elden lord you can imprison death again since You're basically the only authority. since Marika is stone.
dark souls characters Will just consume your soul after killing you unless you are Undead
The tarnished can only use the elden ring to manipulate it's world. It's like the chosen undead or unkindled manipulating the fire, little difference here. It's not really *theirs.*
It's also important to notice that the only immortality there is in er is to potentially ressucitate later. As you can see, you can kill the demi-gods and take their great rune, rune that is intrinsic to their life as ranni had to kill her body to discard it.
Destined death only really kills them because it also kills the soul. Can't resurrect with that.
Don’t want to overstate it but in regards to the mortal blade. It’s likely that it would be equivalent to at least a shard of destined death. It was shown to kill beings bestowed with immortality by the divine dragon. It was also the only weapon to even be able to wound the divine dragon. It’s quite mystical in nature and I’d imagine it to be able to kill anything with bestowed immortality, essentially up to the level of vessel of a god and the various tarnished. Probably couldn’t kill a god itself but not even the Elden beast is a god so we don’t know who powerful Elden ring gods are.
In lore there is no other option besides Ashen One or the Tarnished. Both have Star level might which dwarfs everyone else.
Correct me if im wrong but isnt the hunter a literal cosmic being with the true ending? Nit saying that they would be beat the other characters, but they most certainly wouldn’t beat him bc of infight right?
@@aitchwhy7793 has no feats as this being, is an INFANT in said ending, and there are no lore pieces that give an idea of how strong they could be.
So yes, but it doesn’t change anything.
@@MrLimboRL Ah okay more of the thought that other soulsborne protagonists wouldnt even be avle to notice or know of their existence
@@MrLimboRL
The Good Hunter has an item that's literally a white dwarf star though.
@@davidnewhart2533 Factually wrong. Call From Beyond is a Phantasm, just like the Shell and Augur of Ebrietas. CFB itself is just basically a slug, yet allows the summoning of miniaturized exploding stars, which do hit hard but aren’t really star level.
Even if you were correct though, Radahn’s feat is still monumentally greater.
Hmm just the thought about the Tarnished. Wouldn't the Tarnished have access to destined Death to use against the Chosen Undead and Bearer of the curse?
Yes technically, since the tarnished can take two things from maliketh which both do destined death, tarnished can take a black knife from a boss and tarnished can summon tiche
The hunter never truly « dies »
When the hunter dies, they awaken back at the nearest lander as if it was a bad dream
Therefore, it would be reasonable to assume that the hunter is immune to the tarnished’s death rune
@@godricktheminecrafted3113 that’s what every character does
@@skinless5136 no but the hunter is actually a part of a dream
Have you been to the main hub of bloodborne?
@@godricktheminecrafted3113 litterally every character just doesn't stay dead, that's kinda their gimmick in their world, like how Smough and Ornstein are a duo fight, and Pointiff Sullyvahn can conjure a doppelganger; the slayer of demons, the chosen undead, bearer of the curse, the hunter, the ashen one, wolf, and tarnished all just get back up for another round (like, this is canonically something they all do.)
Wolf being able to insta-kill enemies after taking out their posture is pretty insane.
Sekrios tools are limited but they all serve a unique purpose. Like his raven mist let's him avoid any attack and reposition easily. His axe does big damage and staggers. He has ranged attacks although they aren't so great, better for interrupting and knocking out of the air. His spear is pretty good. And for any thrust weapon, which are very common and popular, he can mikiri counter. I haven't played any other souls game so I'm just giving points for sekiro so u can make a decision
Before watching I’m gonna say it’s the Tarnished by a long shot. The feats we pull off in Elden Ring are on a much larger scale than anything in FromSoftware’s other games. Bosses like Radahn who brought space itself to a halt, Malenia who basically nuked an entire continent and then became an actual goddess, Maliketh who wields Death, Astel, Fortissax, Placidusax, Godfrey, and of course Radagon and the Elden Beast, are on a completely different level then what we see in Dark Souls or Sekiro. Maybe this video will show me something different
I think you raise some fair points!
Radahn never brought space to a halt
Not sure where people got that now lol. He brought meteorites and astels to a halt.
@@SilverMont and even by going and saying that wolf is the only one who can take others immortal it falls in short against the tarnished because considering he is max level he will have the black blade which literally contains the concept of death which mortalised the entire lands between and technically the elden ring is a combination of concepts that rules the lands between like death and order which again all are going to be in the tarnished and to add one the durability and immunity goes straight to the tarnished since through the journey he encounters the scarlet rot and managed to tank it by simply healing and the rot is a god consuming matter which kills anything it touches even the greater will a literal outer god can't neutralise it and I'll say the closest character lore wise to the tarnished is the Hunter considering that he killed the old ones which are an extra dimension aleins who lives beyond time and space and has star level power like the daughter of the cosmos who in lore throws stars at the hunter
@@pintobean6702 he held back the stars and holding astel and his species back too, tarnished has killed all the demi gods and elden beast
@@coreygordon4612 not quite sure why you brought up the tarnished when i was referring to radahn lol but it doesn't quite make my point invalid.
People for some reason wank radahn and say all kinds of things raging from him controlling the universe to now bending space itself.
In reality he holds back astels and meteors. He does NOT hold back literal stars. The game specifically points it out as astel's being the stars. In phase 2 of his fight when he dies an astel was originally supposed to come down and crash.
I pretty heavily disagree about the Tarnished being manipulated by Ranni, considering that she is completely open about her intentions and actions from the very start.She never urges you to go after her once you give her the Fingerslayer Blade, but leaves the path open in case you do want to follow her. I also somewhat disagree on Shabriri's ending as well, since he is not very... subtle, about his intentions.
On the matter of strength though, the Tarnished is obviously the strongest out of the bunch. Not only do they have the most ridiculous spells, but a lot of the foes they fought were actually at the peak of their power (Malenia, Godfrey, Maliketh, Rykard etc) unlike the Dark Souls protags who nearly always end up fighting weakened and dilapidated versions of their foes way past their prime. The only issue that the Tarnished would have is speed (outside of ashes of war), which is an area that the Hunter and Wolf are both vastly superior in (especially Wolf, who can parry sky to ground lightning as well as attacks that happen simultaneously). The Tarnished also has Maliketh's Black Blade, which should have the ability to permanently kill everyone here
Bearer of the curse is different, they just aren't fair. Tarnished doesn't win against somebody who just goes into the memory of somebody and kills them before grace finds them. He can just hide away in memories forever, and nothing can catch him and then he can jump out and assasinate the tarnished. Its just not a fair fight for tarnished against bearer of the curse.
@@duckyduckington9736 The bearer of the curse can't just randomly hop in every memory, there is some level of limitation considering that you don't just abuse this to stomp people.
And you don't really "kill" anyone in their memories, the Last Giant is still there despite the fact that you kill him in his memory
You said that we don’t know if the site of grace work if marika is dead, but in the flame of frenzy ending the entire erdtree is burnt down and we can still use it
Good to see some of the OG souls creators still around
You forgot the weapons of the black knives and Maliketh's blade. Which I think can kill immortals too with the whole Destined Death and Night of the Black Knives. And technically the Black Flames of the God skins since they were taken away by the rune of death being taken too. So Tarnished has 3 ways to kill immortals beings by lore perspective
Yep. Maliketh's blade = mortal blade.
Godfrey even has a unique immunity to destined death.
Which I don't quite understand. Seems strange. need some input here.
@@nouhorni3229 he's probably immune to holy damage. Maliketh's sword deals holy damage for some reason.
@@nouhorni3229 ranni screwed with it so she could escape the two fingers control
@@nouhorni3229 Um, first of all, no.
Destined death isn't mortal blade.
Destined death is made to kill *gods* ,not all gods are inmortal.
Gods in Elden Ring don't revive like Sekiro's inmortal enemies. And Sekiro is the only true inmortal one and he still can die from the mortal blade with the mortal blade.
God =/= inmortal, therefore destined death =/= mortal blade.
Destined death only kills Gods, not inmortal beings, gods in Elden Ring aren't inmortal at all. Just look at Marika.
There aren't many inmortal beings in Elden Ring, the only three are Rykard (serpent), Ranni (doll form) and the Tarnished (respawn). No god in Elden Ring is inmortal nor stated to be, therefore none of the things you mentioned are about inmortality whatsoever.
If the Elden Beasts power was directly connected to the Greater Will...Id argue it was weakened. I envision the Wheel from Pillars of Eternity, similar to the Erdtree. And if the Erdtree is where souls return to be reborn anew (after replacing the crucible) it's highly likely the cycle of life and death going through the Erdtree as a catalyst allowed the siphoning of inherent power from the souls in the cycle. That would make a solid argument on why the Greater Will was so against it's removal.
OH MY GOD SILVER MONT I HAVENT SEEN YOU IN YEARS
Them subtitles go hard: “seemingly granted to them by Queen America”
Hell yeah
One thing of note, is that Wolf, the Tarnished, the Hunter, the Ashen one and Bearer of the Curse (provided they complete the DLC) have infinite immortality, the Chosen Undead can hollow and die, same for the Ashen one (if they become the lord of hollows) and Bearer of the Curse (base game only) giving the Hunter, Wolf and Tarnished a clear advantage.
Others have mentioned how the Tarnished wields the rune of death, which could probably take out the Hunter who could be focused down while a spirit deals with Wolf.
Wold has the Mortal Blade, that actually severs immortality
@@gannielukks1811 I didn’t mention that as it was covered in the video, along with how it would probably only work on the Hunter and Tarnished.
Wolf has a SIGNIFICANT mobility advantage. He can parry almost any physical attack, any lightning, fire, and necrotic effects. Generally, his umbrella is an answer to most magic spam. Not to mention being effectively immortal.
Don't forget about Mist Raven
In a way, all of them are immortal
Bloody Crow Of Cainhurst, fight and see why! Hope he’s considered because, goddamn, he’s SUCH a bastard, love him
If there was a... "top 5 annoying invaders/hostile NPCs" style list, he'd definitely make it
If they try spam magic on wolf he also has magic counters such as the feathers that counter any type of damage as long as it connects and if they try to spam summons he can puppet mindslave them all for a free new ally
The chosen undead would have the poise advantage against the others and he would traid hit with his enemies, and if he is wearing a FULLY UPGRADED Armorset with high poise you would have to rely on ranged or magical weapons and skills.
I’d honestly make a case for the Hunter. The sheer speed and dps along with what is honestly a really good toolset (hunter tools, guns and varied weapon movesets). The tarnished has a lot more tools, but whether they are actually better I’m not entirely sure about. The hunter’s speed would have no issue singling out the player from the summon for instance. Bloodborne also has it’s own version of bloodhound step in the form of the old hunter bone for even more speed and s. As for shields, one would need insane stability and stamina to withstand all the attacks a hunter can put out for one singular stamina bar. Sekiro would have a lot of options against the hunter by virtue of being even faster and the easy parry, but I’m not sure how sekiro would deal with the hunter tools. Keep in mine things like phantom butterflies can’t be truely blocked, so what about arcane conjurings? I’m not really saying much about the actual dark souls games because they’re all like the tarnished with less tools or less speed or both. Another thing I don’t think you mentioned is bloodborne’s blood gem system. At endgame, bloodborne weapons with perfect gems from chalices can make a dagger hit for close to or even over 1000 AR. As for the gods of bloodborne being lesser than the outer gods of ER, I don’t think so. The gods of bloodborne that you encounter all rule their own entire separate state of existance. The dead mind of a god has cursed the entire hunter lineage and it’s unborn son is about as strong if not stronger than Melania.
A maxed out fingerprint with any shield buff doesn’t take any stamina damage so hunter would get fucked by greatshield
Not to mention how many gods and demigods the tarnished kills while the only great one the hunter kills is the moon presence
@@spoon8035 you forgot about rom, ebriatas, mergo, orphan of kos, arguably living failiures. The amygdalas are not great ones but they’re not exactly mere beasts either. As for the demigods, they may be the strongest of the lands between, but they all carry a mere shard of the elden ring and their godhood is diluted
@@Herr_Gamer rom is not a great one she was simply granted eyes by kos orphan of kos is well an orphan of kos merely a child and surely no great one ebreitas is a great one but by no means a strong one she is able to coexist with regular humans and is essentially just a glorified messenger
@@spoon8035 even if I take all you said at face value, you can’t say much more for elden ring’s bosses. Godrick is a weakling with extra arms. Radahn has literal brainrot. Rennala is just a sorcoress. Morgott isn’t even granted grace. Mohg is in many ways a revamped martyr logarius. You get the picture. As for orphan, he is a great one. He is the only example of a great one born without a surrogate mother. You say merely a child, but he still ranks among the top in many people’s lists of hardest fromsoft bosses. Ebriatas was left behind but not necessarily for weakness. It could just as well be compassion. Great ones are known to be compassionate and grant favours to humans in need. As for rom, she may not be a true great one but she certainly ascended far above the state of a human and managed to hold down the veil protecting yahrnam from the true horrors ravaging it
@@Herr_Gamer Radahn is a valiant general who despite being afflicted with scarlet rot and being severely weakened and being just a demi-god still manages to hold back the stars, mohg has the power of the formless mother who is a outer god, godfrey is a warrior who was literally so strong he was banished because he had no one left to kill, malenia was the most powerful swordstress ever and literally becomes a goddess in her second phase, fire giant has the power of the fell god sealed inside him. malekith has the rune of death which literally kills your soul and body something the tarnished also gains access to, radagon is a champion who if going by the fact that radagon and marika are one in the same has shattered the elden ring and also defeated the fell god, and the god devouring serpent was an immortal being who became incredibly powerful from devouring rykard, his great rune, and a bunch of recusants
What is a cool detail is that the soul of cinder uses the alternative backstep of the darkwood grainring from Dark Souls 1.
I'm gonna go with either dark souls 3, or elden ring personally. Maybe even our good hunter if we take becoming an old one as achieving true godhood?
I feel like in the end, it would end up being wolf vs the tarnished. They both have weapons that can kill immortal beings: the tarnished has the rune of death, with can obliterate the body AND soul of anyone, and wolf has the immortal blade, with does realistically the same thing as the rune of death: severing a being’s immortality.
I think it would honestly come down to who is able to get a hit off with their immortality-severing weapon first. If wolf is able to use stealth, then he easily wins; sneaking up on the tarnished and killing him before the tarnished knows what hit it.
Now in a honorable fight, it could go either way. If they decide to just start hitting each other without their OP god-killing swords, wolf may win. He has been able to deflect even the most aggressive and long combos of attacks without any trouble, and if the tarnished uses their quickest attack(waterfowl dance)wolf could probably deflect without any trouble, stagger the tarnished, and use the immortal blade. If the tarnished uses magic however, wolf may not be so lucky. That is, if his lighting-reversal attack works on all magic, and if it doesn’t, the tarnished easily wins; bombarding wolf with so many spells that he staggers and is hit with the black blade.
If they just want to get this over with and decide to spam their god-killing blades of death, I think the tarnished would just barely win, here’s why:
Both the mortal blade and the black blade have ranged attacks, so they both would probably be used(I’m also assuming the mortal blades ranged attack goes through armor).
In a fight like this, with ranged weapon arts being spammed, the tarnished probably would win, and this comes down to one thing: dodge rolls.
Both wolf and the tarnished are extremely mobile, wolf with his grapple and the tarnished with torrent(though if it does come down to mobility, wolf would win because he is zipping through the air). Everything seems pretty even right? Both wolf and the tarnished are very mobile and have weapons that will permanently kill an immortal, along with them both being immortal so a regular battle wouldn’t work. Well that tarnished has one thing wolf doesn’t: more experience dodging.
Through sekiro, wolf spends almost the whole game deflecting and parrying, only dodging in certain fights. In the exact opposite, with the tarnished dodge almost the whole game. And this is what it comes down to. The weapon arts of the black blade can’t be partied or deflected or parried, making wolfs skills useless. It can be dodged however, which give the tarnished the advantage.
The tarnished wins against wolf. The tarnished is simply better at dodging.
TLDR;
It comes down to wolf vs the tarnished as they are the only one who can permanently kill immortals, the tarnished with the rune of death and wolf with the mortal blade. Both are immortal, so traditional fighting won’t work, and both are extremely mobile, but the tarnished wins. The death blades can’t be partied or deflected, making wolf’s skill set almost useless. It can be dodged tho, and the tarnished is better at dodging so they win.
TLDR the TLDR;
The tarnished and wolf fight. They use Immortality severing weapons. The tarnished wins because they can dodge the attacks better than wolf can.
Sorry about how long this was, I kinda spaced out writes much more than needed
İ hate reading long texts but you wrote this beautifly.may the gods bless ur hands
Only in open field and only assuming the spells or whatever are not interrupted by having a shuriken thrown in the tarnishes face. Considering his agility and much faster reflexes i'd say wolf would body any other. The umbrella would most likely block any magic and really wolf could outrun any of them anyways because gameplaywise he is as fast a torrent.
@@rustedaxe2018 I don't think, personally, the Umbrella would stop Destined Death nor Madness. Not counting Fia's Mist or Mist in general. It would come down to vertically and horizontally dodges. Wolf seems to have an upper hand in this buuuuut... it's skills that matter. In a 1v1, a wel rounded Tarnished with a good arsenal could counter most of his opponents. The only thing here is timing, and not exactly parrying or blocking.
How the fuck do you think the Tarnished is better at dodging? His dodges are a lot slower and clunkier, while Sekiro can dodge longer and faster than the Tarnished. The only thing that makes Tarnished dodges useful is the purely gameplay aspect of i-frames.
@@AManChoosesASlaveObeys But timing comes down to parrying or blocking. Also wolf has to deal with terror, which is at least equivalent to madness or death mist. Neither are hard to dodge in elden ring and add wolf's mobility and those would be trivial to him. In pure physical combat wolf would easily best the tarnished and if you add spells he has plenty of tools to counter them, be it prosthetic, skills, mobility, or stealth. Just cant see him losing.
Sekiro can actually have an advantage with spirrit summons because if he has all of his skills he can kill one of the summons and get some hp and all his posture back plus if he has bestowal he could hop behind the spirit and "bestowal" his blade.
yeah but tarnished has rivers of blood
@@thetoyodacar2264 and mimic year +10
@@thestormkage rip💀
@@thetoyodacar2264 "L1 L1 L1 L1 L1 L1"
@@hehe-haha Bleed builds through block as well. poor match up for sekiro.
One thing you talked about is the different healing items the tarnished and other heroes had. But may I introduce you a little item called
*_"Numbing Mist"_*
A tool employed by the Bloodborne hunter.
Unlike the lloyds talisman/hunter charm in Dark Souls which is restricted JUST to Estus Flasks, this item prevents ALL sources of healing. (It can even be used to negate Vicar Amelias healing prayer)
This means that ALL sources of HP restoration are off the table when confronted with the Hunter.
The Hunter may not have a wide variety of magic either but what explosive power they do have is downright nuclear in volatility. Like the dreaded Bone Ashe'd Cannon, or A Call Beyond, a massive star explosion which continues to scale up to 99 Arcane for MASSIVE damage and is damn near unavoidable with its wide Area of Effect. (If you fought Micolash head to head, you know what its like getting one shot by this skill)
Also the sheer amount of healing can offset what ever armor and HP difference, being able to carry nearly twenty+ vials and rally in addition, and if it comes down to it, they have the choir bell for emergency which also **negates ALL negative status effects.**
Theres also the lead elixer which can deflect physical attacks and basically grant them nigh unlimited poise.
The Loch Shield can be used to defend against non physical attacks.
The Shaman Bone Blade can be used on Spirit Summons to turn them against their summoner
"How do you know that??" I hear you ask. Because when you fight commander Niall in Castle Sol, you can use the Bewitching Branch on HIS Spirit summons for the SAME effect.
If we assume the Tarnished is using his most powerful equipment, including the Mimic Tear(which considering he only gets one oppurtunity to summon is a given) and the Black Blade which can inflict destined death, it stands that the Mimic Tear will also have the Black Blade. Resulting in a literal "Et Tu, Brute" betrayal.
Yeah I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to give it to the Hunter on this one. He just has so many highly specific kryptonite level counters to the rest of the roster.
On that same note though, other characters have pretty hard counters to the Hunter - like TWOP, and if we're assuming the bone blade would work on spirit summons, then we have to apply the same logic to TWOP. Or things like Karmic Justice which is a pretty big counter to R1 spam. As is Wolf's ability to deflect. I could only realistically see the Hunter beating the DaS3 character because that one is almost like a more varied but less intense version of the Hunter, without any specific counters, I can think of
@@SilverMont The Hunter with the lead elixir has more poise, practically if they hit him it's as if they hit the wall, they would be exposed to a charged attack, they could hit him with magical attacks, however The Hunter despite having reduced mobility can move with quick steps and we all know that The can dodge any attack.
Wolf couldn't even do anything to him in that state, even if he used the wako sugar it wouldn't work either since The Hunter would have infinite balance in that state for 30 seconds, but I only see The Hunter beat him like that, because Wolf is a better fighter than him and all the others. other protagonists.
Well you know, most spells tarnished has can be dodged just by running, the ones where tarnished jumps in air can be instant deathblowed. Burn doesn't do much or any damage agains wolf and if we are going by terror rules than as long as wolf perfect deflects, no status effects will be built and all damage type will be negated. Im not sure how sabimaru works. Besides burn the lifesteal weapons are the ones which wolf can't completely deflect.
All that aside, wolf comes out on top gameplay wise because unlimited stamina and grapple. Like seriously throw whatever you have at wolf and he will outrun it and everyone else can only cast so much spells. Spirit ashes, he can just stealth deathblow them. He is just way more free.
If ashen was able to kill the one who survived the gods of the whole old world, absorbing the dark soul, huge (once) the immortal dragon struck by the abyss, who is still so strong that no one in his right mind could stop him, killed the incarnation of all the lords of the ashes and in fact experienced the end of the fading world, can he be considered the strongest character soulsborne? Who knows.
Of course he can't, Elden noobs have such fanatism over ER that they don't even know who the Ashen One is and still talk about it.
These new players ER brought in are. honestly pretty garbage.
@@WeebSlayer27 least gatekeeping ds3 player
@@thederper5836 If you want to call spitting facts gatekeeping then so be it.
You couldn't even trap Melina since she literally teleports to the tarnished every time they sit at grace so it solidifies their win moreso
2:58
They way I look at the soul of cinder is this:
The soul of cinder is not the combined strength of everyone who has linked the fire, but rather it gains the abilities of everybody who has at one point linked the fire. So it gains their moveset and abilities rather than their pure strength
The Tarnished absolutely shitstomps the other protags, beat Maliketh who wields a true platonic concept (outerversal + irrelevant speed), beat Placidusax who exists in a realm that transcends time (immeasurable speed + 5D existence lowball), altered the principles of life and death which is a duality of true platonic concepts (outerversal), beat Rennala who created a pocket universe, scales above the likes of Ranni who banished the greater will who governs the concept of order, Ranni also created a moon large enough to potentially contain a galaxy, scales above Radahn who held back the stars (plural, implying every star in the entire fuckin universe) and that isn’t even all 💀
If we are going by end game logic, then the Ashen one would have amazing variety of weapons, and some variety of spells, pyromancy and incantations. And dark-eater midir, soul of cinder, slave knight Gael, Aldrich, nameless king all of which could be considered god level.
I would say that across the board the ds3 bosses are weaker than the elden ring ones. Placidusax>Midir, godfrey>gwyn, and radahn>nameless king or gael
@@jeffreyfarris9268 Gael is the most powerful person in fromsoft history. He has the combined strength of not just the lords of cinder, but everyone who has ever existed (besides the ashen one). It is literally just him and you at the end of the world.
Yes but when you put them vs each other who would actually win
@@jeffreyfarris9268 Ashen One, because they kill the strongest opponents
@@Trolhg manus >> gael
gael only drink the the pgymies blood in ringed city and dark souls was still too much for him to handle and eventually corrupted him. while manus is so strong that he reaches out through time and space to reacquire his pendant which we got in The Duke's Archives
Lore and feat wise I’m pretty sure it’s either the hunter or the tarnished. They’re both able to deal with beings that can like control concepts, and affect the stars.
Gameplay wise wolf for sure.
Exactly I don’t get theses comments mentioning how wolf can block bullets when the hunter and the tarnished can legit take hits from meteors,stars and comets
About using Torrent to get away from opponents: Wolf does have shurikens that travel at the same speed as a bullet and can hit multiple times, he can also use the grappling hook to pull himself towards them which depending on what you believe, can stagger Torrent. It's surprisingly easy to get knocked off him from a few of my experiences. All Wolf would need to do is spam a few of those to knock the Tarnished off.
As for the armor and Wolf's inability to get through it with his katana, I'd like to believe that what the Lazulite shuriken says is true and it doesn't slow down even after hitting an enemy, which might imply an ability to pierce heavy armor (gameplay mechanics prevent it from piercing Armored Warrior I suppose?) and even then, the phantom kunai cannot be blocked which is basically piercing armor. Also it might be just them reusing the animation, but he can stab through the armor as seen by his deathblow on AW. Against something like Tragoth armor it might not mean much, but still.
Spells can also kinda be negated in the form of the mist raven feathers and umbrella shield, but to what degree is debatable.
The Tarnished has a much more varied kill record and is much more impressive though. Lore wise, Maliketh is one of the most powerful entities in The Lands Between, and all of the Gods and Demigods slain give them much more reason to be feared I'd imagine. Not that any of the soulsborne characters care, they'll chase him on all the same.
Damn I'm bored.
Hey silver I don't know if you'll actually see this comment or not, I used to look at your videos back during dark souls 2, I'm glad to see that you're still going and doing well keep up the fantastic work my friend.
Thanks!
I think Bearer of the Curse with the 3 crowns wins this. he's essentially immortal
Not close... (DS1 2 and 3 are the same characters for me).
Demon's Souls MC would be the true Immortal Singularity because of the Soul, Soul Arts, "Demons", Great One, and the Nexus.
Literally just take the crown off of his head lol
From a lore perspective, the strength of undead is tied to the first flame. By ds3 souls have been burned and burned so many times the ashen one is barely able to add anything by burning themself
Not really, the title of lord of cinder is extremely old and is clearly a mark of strenght. And seeing how the fire is still picky in 3 even when dying, it means that the fire had standards throughout the whole dark souls timeline.
Conclusion, it's just the fire that is getting tired.
@@thegk-verse4216
On the flip side... Nito and Manus are growing in numbers. While Izalith is dead and Gwyn will soon follow.
It's kind of odd that Nito and his subjects are not affected nor care too much about the entire events in Dark Souls 1/2/3. Besides being skeleton monsters for PvE.
The Grave Lords should return at full.
I never really thought there was too much in the "Lord of Cinder" title - I just felt like it was what Gwyn was reduced to. He was the Lord of Sunlight, then he became the Lord of Cinder, at the end. His title hollowed, no pun intended.
I think the tarnished actually displays a great deal of will in their ending specifically the elden lord default ending which is currently until disputed by FS the Canon ending they just make an era of their own. And also the ranni ending at no point in that story is the tarnished being manipulated physically or mentally you can back out at any time and abandon ranni and her story the only endings that yhe tarnished have no control over is the frenzied flame and the dung eater ending
To be honest, the armor argument I can understand but it gets weird. The armored man on the bridge is just completely invulnerable to damage, but no soulsborne player armor is immune to any amount. Even lingering fire on floors. Also, deflection and a death blow for wolf would allow him to stab through the gaps in any armors.
Just my argument, but the movesets of everything else is too simple to hit the wolf or do damage to him with his umbrellas being immune to everything. Not to mention, even unblockable blade from that one faith weapon could be jumped over, as for torrent, I feel as though wolf would be able to grapple onto it just as he had gyobu’s horse.
Idk, might add something later. But just my thoughts that wolf is the goat.
Tarnished is a bit too powerful With too many abilities and Raw power. I mean lore wise the spells and incantations are region ending. Nothing from the previous games come close to the sheer scale of the powers in elden ring.
The only problem is (Lore wise) the Tarnish is no longer immortal if they chose to forsake the Greater Will. The Greater Will is the source of the Tarnish's immortality and Golden Order based spells.
Kind of like DS3 where Miracles have lost its power.
However... Unlike the Tarnish... The Chosen Undead is also the True Monarch and the Ashen One... Since time is convoluted and incarnations after incarnations has changed the nature of things. With some things lost and old things returning.
Thus... The Dark Souls Main Character is the oldest of all other MCs. Not even the Tarnish can live forever.
Technically, the guidance of grace came from Marika - obviously, much of her power probably stems from the Greater Will, but just wanted to point that out. As by the end of the game the Tarnished has no need of the "guidance" anymore, having achieved their (and Marika's?) goal, so it's very possible the grace leaves their eyes once more
The Elden beast holds up the logic of the world. As it is the embodiment of order. So I would put the tarnished way higher than the rest.
Also destined death can destroy immortality
surprised you didnt bring up the tarnished gaining the ability to use "true death" weapons like the black knife or black blade, the rune of death ect
The whole DD situation is really bizarre in Elden Ring - I didn't bring it up as I figured I'd end up talking about it for 5-10 minutes haha. But in a nutshell, I don't know if it'd work on the other immortals, similar to the mortal blade from Sekiro.
We know Destined Death is a "god-slaying black flame" but there's never really mention on whether or not it would work on those with the golden grace (which is seemingly given by Marika) It's also weird how it doesn't play into the blacksmith at all, considering his whole goal is to make a weapon that can slay a god
Wolf has the umbrella to block spells, which does cost spirit emblems to he’s somewhat limited, but the tarnished would probably run out of FP and cerulean flasks faster than wolf could just simply hold out the umbrella before his posture breaks 20+ times
If we ignore the absurd argument of needing maidens/fire keepers then the answer is quite simple. The fact that Gwyn at his very peak using the full soul became the God of Sunlight, was able to completely eradicate an everlasting race of dragons, and conquer the world puts him in the same category of feats as Marika/Radagon. Gwyn feared only one thing in his prime and that was the power of humanity and the Dark Soul. He squashed every instance of the abyss, imprisoned the pygmies, and squashed every sign of humans gaining power by cursing then with the darksign in order to hold back the sheer strength of the Dark Soul. Eventually Slave Knight Gael managed to end the life of basically every living thing even those who are cursed with immortality or everlasting beings in order to get the most complete Dark Soul which dwarfed that of Manus that even prime Gwyn feared. Gael was the closest to the prime Gods of Dark Souls if not stronger as he also held almost the full weight of the soul of all Humanity within himself. The only weakness of Gael was his madness. The Ashen One ended a being that could've gone to the lands between and absolutely destroyed all the demigods with ease as none have the ability to absorb souls. This makes the Ashen One objectively the strongest being in all Fromsoft games. (not even counting that he defeated Midir and The Soul of Cinder both of which are strong enough to be powerhouses in the lands between)
Fun fact. Placidusax exists in a timeless realm and the tarnished was able to move in it.
Well, if we were to go by the literal description of “strongest” by how much you can lift, pull, carry, etc. 99 strength dual power stance smelter clubs bearer wins. Their literally carrying two wrought iron clubs (each bigger then themselves) around and killing you with them. He also wins in healthiness with nearly 4K hp.
The strongest in post game power will probably be an tie between an hypothetical fully grown moon presence hunter and tarnished’s bed of chaos 2.0. Since their both aspects of outer gods.
Max level wise, although demon slayer has scraper - bearer’s got santier and ways of breaking gear too, plus ice rapier, lingering flame, 200 crystal soul spears, climax, and crit gauntlets to kill demon before he gets too close. Ds1 backstab strat can be negated by bearer, and has more hp and hp recovery abilities to out trade them. Just have to watch out for tranquil walk of death, as well as, an hypothetical giant dad fight (which bearer will inevitably loose to).
Ds3 will probably get bodied by poise and climax, best chance is repeating great bow glitch
Hunter best bet is to stay long range or have a fast trade hp return weapon With hit and run tactics. Possibly fish for parries. Sekiro pretty much the same but much more aggressive. Scraps of life and wrath of gods types of attacks will probably be the best way to fight them.
And for bearers son, tarnished will probably have the fairest fight against his father. As long as he doesn’t get immediately climaxed or gets clapped by power stanching ice rapier and chaos blade/ mundane dark buffed warped sword or smelters - tarnished should eventually win with proper set up.
Side note - I doubt scarlet rot or other Haxxy outer god abilities will work on bearer due to the true crown, which should work as essentially an better version of miquela’s needle. Fire spells especially (And destined death for being an undead rather then tarnished) due to bearer being able to be +100% fire proof. And his electric attacks should do more damage due to them getting stronger if an opponent is even slightly wet.
I wonder if Sekiros snap seeds could remove the spirit summons from the tarnished. On the wiki it says that Lady Butterfly summons spirits which suggests that they could destroy spirit ashes but the snap seed item description says that "It is used to break the effect of an enemy's ability to use illusion techniques.". It could just be the wiki that has a incorrect description of the technique but in my opinion they would probably be effective on spirit ashes based on the similarities of them to the effected enemies in sekiro
Gameplay wise wolf is so much faster he also learns and his reaction time is so insane.
Torrent is neged because Wolf killed a man on a horse already, so what if it can double jump? Every boss in Sekiro is faster than any other boss in DS, BB, or Elden Ring (Every human boss I mean), Sekiro kills immortals all the time and can neg DS, BB, and ER immortality with the Mortal Blade, the others can not (I Think,) Sekiro has more versatility, Battle IQ, ranged Tools, Speed, and arguably Strength since he can deflect attacks from literal failed reincarnations of a demon God of War and a Saint of the Sword that would destroy any other MC because of his fast movements. Wolf beats them, ranged attacks? Umbrella. can't get to the enemy? Kunai. Shield? Axe. Can't deflect an attack? Mist Raven Feather. Too many Hax, too much speed, too many tools. Sekiro slaps no matter how many rinky dink spells you slap at it. BB is a closer second.
The other games also have all of this, you can't say they have less ranged attacks, tools and power when there are literally a lot of sourceries, miracles, summons and items. Surely sekiro has more speed and maybe, even if it's not proven, more battle iq, however if we talk about strength, in the other games you fight literal gods, creatures from space and other monstruosities, i wouldnt say Sekiro will loss, but you can't be so sure it will win. Radahn, elden beast, malenia, mohg, rykard, astel, maliketh, gael, artorias, midir, manus, aldritch (and his fucking bullshit arrows), they all are extremely strong 'cause they can use enormous weapons and enchantements like toys and be at the same time very fast (not as the wolf however). I mean, surely sekiro can beat all of them as the other main characters of the souls series, but if we have to compare the bosses, in the souls games there are too much powerful moves and tricks, because in sekiro most of the attacks are physical whereas in the souls games we see space magic and other absurd thing (and i'm not talking about bloodborne where, forse example, we have moon presence which can lead you to 1 hp with a shout)
@@lucaprisciano5146 Though, Sekiro has one thing most other bosses do not, the simple art of deflection (which it has been shown he can deflect even non physical and more magical attacks because of Owl (Father) and the umbrella, to Sekiro all it takes is for the spirits to attack and with a few deflects (depending on the posture which is known for how easy it is to posture break in ER) he can take them out in a few swings, shuriken can destroy most animals in Sekiro in one or two hits even with the base Shuriken, which handles the wolves and other animal based ones, Sekiro's tool set and speed are too vast for the slow, barely moving, enemies, magic, and attacks of ER, Bloodborne is a close second because of how speedy the Hunter is and the rally system which really breaks the fight, but if Sekiro can deflect attacks like One Mind from Isshin then he would have no issue with the barrage and the eventual posture break, the combat is refined in Sekiro for a reason, because he is by far the most powerful even if the biggest enemy he faces is a failed demon transformation, I still believe he would outspeed if not outpower Elden Beast, Malenia especially because her waterfowl feels specifically made for Sekiro's combat, it reminds me of the water passage attack that Sekiro can do. All in all I really think that because of the Shinobi training he would be smart enough to dodge and run from what he cannot deflect such as gravity magic like he usually does with terror magic. Though of course this is really just am opinion of mine and all of your evidence really does hold up well. I still think wolf high-extreme diffs ER and Bloodborne, Moon Presence gives you time to heal after taking you down to one, even if he doesn't, Wolf has 3 resurrections max and 10 healing gourds max. Wolf understands the art of battle canonically way better than most classes (trained since a child by Owl and Butterfly) Its hinted and not stated that most of the classes in ER happen over a normal lifetime, then they are brought back, plus ER and BB cannot resurrect without Malenia or the Hunters Dream, Kuro could die and Wolf would still have his resurrection due to the blood still being alive in him.
@@ElysiumFields306 I understand your points and they are really fair, i indeed think wolf can beat the bosses of the other souls games, but every character of fromsoftware can do that in the end, because obv all of them are immortal so they can learn bosses till they beat em. In the first message i was comparing the bosses from sekiro and the bosses from the other games, in this topic i think it's pretto obvious who is stronger, because as I said the bosses from er, bb and maybe ds3 are gods while in sekiro most bosses are extremely talented or cursed warriors. I hardly think Isshin can deflect radahn meteorites (and we haven't seen miquella yet, who is described as the strongest empyrean). I am currently playing sekiro, so i don't know everything yet, but I think the bosses aren't immortal right? Not as Wolf
I'd like to add two things here. There's only one character who ever had a pause button and that's Wolf. Wolf can stop time to switch out his gear at any moment. Tarnished and Bearer have an insane amount of gadgets, so they win in terms of raw power, but they take time in the menus to swap them out. That leaves them open, while Wolf can just pause existence itself, pull out a cup of rice, and unpause to enjoy a healthy snack mid-fight. That is the most overpowered thing I have ever heard of. The second factor is drip. Wolf's spear can pop badly-fitting armor off like the lid of a jar, which wouldn't be a problem if characters wore complete, well secured armor sets regularly. However, that is not what an experienced player would do, and we would expect the characters to be experienced by the time they reach endgame scaling. That's when you put on the Sorcerer's Yoga Pants to make your butt look nice, pair it with the ugliest mask you can find, and maybe find that one breastplate that makes you look morbidly obese while you're at it. It looks amazing, but you know nobody's got the body type to match, so it wouldn't fit very well. That's why Micolash would win this fight, hands down.
Pause button needs an item description to explain the lore
@@SilverMont I'm feeling creative, so here we go.
Pause Button: An esoteric technique known only to those possessed by beings beyond comprehension. In a state of total concentration, place your faith in the unknown, and watch as time grinds to a halt. Equipment and talent, through incomprehensible means, will change to best fit the matter at hand. Abandon your focus to resume battle.
"Ah, child, do you hear our prayers? Grant us rice, grant us rice!" - Average happy ending enjoyer
You can learn this at the start of the game, when Miyazaki puts on a dress and throws a letter at you with "Git Gud" written on it in Japanese.
I may be wrong, but I see Lady butterfly's illusions much like Spirit summons meaning that all wolf needs in order to counter the Tarnished summons is a snap seed
The tarnished can’t even die to anything if they have the black blade because nothing can die if dying isn’t a thing so the tarnished could just revive endlessly and the mortal blade probably would lose its ability to kill anything as death is only in the black blade