That was the problem. He was using a chainring setup designed for multiple gears with ramps to shift. If he'd used a singlespeed chainring and cassette gear and chain it wouldn't have slung the chain.
Hugo chen most single speed chain rings have a “narrow-wide” design on the teeth, its superior in keeping the chain on. Chain rings from a 3 x setup have narrow teeth that allow any amount of lateral force to shift it
Some day you will make a great dad as well. You know what not to do. My Dad wasn't perfect. That being said his Dad was an abusive drunk so he was better than that. I'm trying to be better than mine.
This was fun to watch. I am 57 and have wanted to build a gokart since I was 8 years old. A couple of years ago I bought a 6.5HP motor, but still haven't got to building it yet. I am thinking I will be in my 60's when I finally rip it up in a gokart. Fortunately I am still a kid at heart. Cheers
Jip here´s another sucker that is gonna be very tired tommorow at work ...i have to see them all in one go now .. Grtzz from the Netherlands Johny geerts
Dear "This Old Tony", Firstly, I hope this gets through to you. Secondly, I want to say thank you so much for the time and information you've put into your videos. I am an "import" living in SE Asia where I have no chance to learn this kind of material, but your videos have been teaching me how to become a better machinist. I truly mean it, you have helped me learn what would be impossible otherwise because I have no opportunity to go to school where I live. Anyway, I want to help with what I can. I am a scooter mechanic by trade (of 6 years or so) and I work with small engines every day, so I am very familiar with...well, small engines. Since I can't do much to contribute monetarily to your channel, I wanted to help you with some information that I believe might help. 1) Those bicycle gears and chain are not going to hold up. Ignoring all the complex maths (yes, Brit speak), even a mild electric assist mountain bike (1/2 - 3/4 horsepower) can snap regular bike chains and cassettes, so a 2 1/2 horsepower motor would be way too much for them to handle as you've seen. So I'd forget using bicycle parts altogether, although I know you've fabbed stuff already. Sorry but, just my suggestion. It's not the play in the clutch (motorcycle pinion gears have lots of side to side play), but just that the chain and gears themselves are too weak. However, there is a very cheap and durable solution, check out "Pitbike" gears and chains for a range of very cheap but strong (enough) gears for your drivetrain. Even the smallest 420 pitch chain, pinion and wheel gear are enough for 6 - 8 horsepower applications (about 4 times more than your motor at max power/torque). Cheap import chains are just fine and will take all the power of the mild tune chainsaw motor you can throw at it. Of course the gears will need to be machined to fit the axle/output shaft etc, but I suspect that will be no problem for you. 2) That small motor likely is going to burn itself up very quickly because it probably uses a plastic camshaft and possibly followers. Not much you can do about that, but just thought I'd make that heads up addition. 3) When you install the engine to the final gear, scooters use what we call a "cush drive", essentially rubber inserts that the dogs of the spur gear uses (sorry, hard to describe) to absorb the shock of stop and go throttling. Look up motorcycle cush drive and you'll get an idea, very easy to fab up a drive unit, even for me with a welder and basic hand tools. Interestingly, just the addition of these rubber drives it greatly not only extends the life of the chain, but the engine as well (as the engine interal parts don't receive that jolt from on and off power). So for the drive, I would recommend some kind of damper. Anyway that's just a few observations and tips I can offer. Okay, hope this reaches you as your help has been invaluable to me and I want to contribute what little I can from around the world Thank you much from SE Asia Mini Motor Man
Just found your channel by accident. ..I'm hooked. Your ability to use the bender you have, your welding skills, and lathe skills. ABSOLUTELY AWESOME. Thank you for sharing with us.
You are a great Dad. When I was a kid my Dad made me a bike from spare parts,It had a big tire on the back and a little tire on the front. I was cool, that was 55 years ago and I think of it all the time. I really like your little go cart. Big thumbs up!!!! M.K.S.
Here I thought I was a good fabricator, you my friend are an amazing fabricator! FYI- I put a chainsaw on a skateboard when I was 13 years old. It was an old McCollugh and I used a Hoover round rubber vacuum cleaner belt and cut a groove on the rear skateboard wheel chucked up on a drill press. Yeah, the belt slipped on the clutch sprocket but once you got going it was fun, scary, and loud!! Thank you for your channel. It’s therapy watching you work when I don’t have the time too!
I am a manufacturing engineering student at Cal Poly Pomona, and took courses on milling, turning, casting and welding. I learned a lot from your UA-cam. Channel especially on tune bending. Your cart is coming out nice I am enjoying all your projects and tutorials. Excited for the final product.
remember that most steering geometry info is for vehicles with suspension and relatively soft tires, that is the chassis moves relative to the steering pivot and the tire flexes significantly so the caster and camber are set to help cancel out the negative effects of that movement. Also the dynamic effects are going to be different from the static effect.(eg. what feels heavy stopped may be just right in actual cornering) Toe in is used to remove the slop in the connection linkage during forward motion[when the ground is pushing the wheels back], more in-toe dampens, removing wandering and twitchy tendencies, too much causes tire wear and a sluggish response.
I know this is now a historical video, but I've been so impressed with part 2. A proper cut and shut, too. Respect. Reminds me of the simple wooden 'pram' go cart that my granddad made for me, which had lots of iterations. Sort of Toyota's 'kaizen', but we just fixed lot of breaks. My go cart was gravity powered but had a rear brake and was a lot of fun and very solid, but simple steering. This video reminded of it, which I've not thought about for ages. Cool work, TOT.
YOU DO GOOD WORK, EVERYONE LEARNS AS THEY GO!!! YOU ARE LUCKY TO HAVE A LATHE & A TIG WELDER!!! I am slowly accumulating tools & want nothing more then my own garage/shop!!! As a child, I had a go-cart & it had twin engine stands & twin sprockets! WISH I STILL HAD IT!!!
Rob M I've seen other people on UA-cam run the chain straight to the drive gear and they seem to work fine? They use a chainsaw engine and I'm honestly really confused why it didn't work for him?
chain tension is the biggest culprit , especially on #25 chain or TF8 bike chain .. Tf8 also requires perfect alignment , since a lot of those rear gears are meant to discharge the chain during gear changes on a bicycle. You pretty much need to start with the chain piano wire tight , and let the natural chain stretch happen to get it " just right"
Silent, old chainsaws were 125cc like a kart engine and can work at 6:1 reduction, but a new chainsaw with tiny 49 - 50cc engine needs about 15 - 20:1 reduction with a jackshaft setup to increase the reduction...
Rob M man, if you told me seven years ago that I'd be this excited for some old tony on UA-cam, I don't know how I would have taken it. Come to think of it I'm pretty sure some further time travel paradoxes would need addressing.
Hey Tony I have a little experience with mini quads and pocket bikes and I don't think you have a cvt. They take up a lot more space. It looks just like a ~3 :1 chain/sprocket reduction. One end is connected directly to clutch bell of a typical centrifugal clutch. I've been thinking about a small engine gokart for a few years now. Really enjoying these videos. I need to get a bender like that.
that is a very strange and interesting frame design. my simply go kart was just 1/4 inch steel tubing bent into a square with a box at one end to hold up the engine. there was a piece of a sheet metal welded inside the square for the seat and for stability. basically it had no "sides" like yours does (it had a fiberglass shell that sat on the frame). i recomment welding in a piece of sheet metal for the floor of your go kart because it will protect your kids legs the best, and mounting the seat will be easy. i also recomment putting a kill switch grounded to the chasis under the seat that your kids can easily reach. i had to hit my kill switch a few times very quickly when the engine had issues or when i broke a chain or unseated a tire
This is much more of a space frame design like you'd see in a kit car (albeit with square tube instead of round). I believe he mentioned wanting to go for a space frame in part 1. Gives great strength for weight. Upvoted and commented because of the kill switch. 100% good idea. I can only assume he'll be putting a sheet floor in there already, but the kill switch could be easy to overlook.
before i knew anything about electrics in cars or go karts, i used to think the kill switch was magic because it only had one lead running out to it haha. i wasn't familiar with the term "space frame" until i read your comment. i've known about the usefullness of trusses and triangles, but now i have a word for it
wow that is one sweet frame that you built ! Your kids will be spoiled and it should last a long time as well !Haave you thought about adoption ? I'm potty trained and I really want to learn more when it comes to the lathe andd mill ! I a a good learner and know how to sweep !
That yoke; you can call it a King-pin bracket. If anyone is interested in making sich a go-kart it's to good to dive in these principles as well: Ackermann, dive and squat of the suspension, chamber, caster, king-pin inclination (as in the video). Its looking like a cool video Tony, very inspiring! And very enjoyable to watch!
your frame design would be a lot stiffer if you made it like a truss, and made sure that all sections of it are triangular shaped. The triangle force each member to be in compression or tension. You could easily modify what you have my adding some more diagonal pieces to make 'triangles' along the length of the frame
When i made my first chainsaw bike, and was young and not so expirienced. I also tried bicycle chain, and figured out 10sec later that it wasnt gonna work. I then switched to bike chain and had no problems.
That long output shaft on the CVT looks like its going to be quite hard on its bearings. I recommend shortening it or maybe supporting it somehow. With such a small sprocket on it, that shaft is going to see quite highish forces and get alot of leverage.
I thought this might be a problem, but I also thought the run-out on that sprocket was significant. Feedback via the chain could really be a hassle down the road, I think.
Tony, that is turning out beautifully, I really like watching this as I started a go kart project just before high school about 6 years ago, I had a lot of trouble and it took me so long that every time I came back to work on it I would be irritated with my past design! 😁 I'm really enjoying this series, your boy is going to have a phenomenal time with that! Good luck with the rest of it!
The front "U" shape bendy thing is called a STEERING KNUCKLE. It contains the KING PIN you made that connects to the axle that pivots the steering wheels so the cart can avoid the mean mean trees. Love your show. Laffing my head off every episode. :-)
This was the second video of Tony's I ever saw, loved it then, love it now.. Thanks random UA-cam algorithm for suggesting this again.. 😁 Happy new year ToT.. 👍🍻🎇🎆
You do realize that the first "Go Karts" used chainsaw engines. The engine of choice was the McCollough because of its high rpm and 6 hp. At least that's the one I had. Poulan wasn't even in the running, Homelite was the second choice.
Great job Tony! Growing up I always wanted a GoCart. You did an amazing job. The only thing I would have wanted on mine different. Is I would want more power... lol 250 - 300 cc. That opens up a ton of engineering challenges. For the kids this is perfect. Again great job!!
Tony, I think your caster and camber angles are far too aggressive. A normal road car has around 3 degrees of caster and .5 degrees of negative camber. With king-pin steering, the camber should be set so the scrub radius of the tire is minimized; the kingpin centerline should continue to the centerline of the tire, so the tire doesn't scrub when turning. This can be accomplished through a combination of kingpin inclination and positive camber at the tire, or increased kingpin inclination and zero camber. I wouldn't add a bunch of caster or camber, 6 degrees of caster is probably good, you want the steering to be light enough.
The caster angle is definitely aggressive, but the camber is essentially zero - it has nothing to do with the angle of the kingpin, but the angle of the tire, which in this case looks perfectly vertical to my calibrated eyeball. What he called caster was actually the steering axis angle, which does nothing but change the scrub radius.
Don't forget that unlike a road car the kart has no rear differential, only a solid axle. This would make it difficult to steer properly so you need a good level of caster to lift the rear inside tyre off the ground and allow it to slip around the turn. Caster tuning range (on a kart) is 8 - 20 degrees, with 20 giving more lift, but heavier steering. I would start at 10 degrees for children to be able to turn the steering wheel.
robertas grigas I knew it was just too great of a deal to be true.! interesting how the manufacturer used some deliberate designing to further create the illusion of a cvt tucked into that cool cover. I wonder why there isnt a cvt set up being produced for these motors. it would be great on a motored bicycle instead of the cheesy hand clutch arrangement that is the weak link in those ebay kits.
Hey Tony, nice build. On the camber angle when you welded on the wheel spindles, and placed them parallel to the ground, didn't you essentially negate the camber angle you'd just installed onto the bracket? If you when you think about it, when you adjust your camber on the car, the wheels move with it. I think the spindles should be perpendicular to the brackets they are welded onto. Just a thought
Looking really good now Tony ! If you reverse the steering yoke sub-assemblies (e.g. at 07:22) it gives more space for the steering arm to articulate. So the yoke has a stub axle welded to it and the vertical tube is welded back to the main frame, usually on a short outrigger tube. If you are chopping them off the frame anyway, then you may want to swap them around so they work the other way. Don't forget the Ackerman geometry and point the steering arms inwards slightly to point to the centre of the rear axle (as seen in plan view), not just straight back. Also , I'm sure they are just place holders but stiffen up the engine mounting rails A LOT as they will get pulled down strongly by the chain load and throw the chain. Finally don't put the fuel tank directly under the child's hair. Good work . . . eagerly awaiting part 3
Chain problem is because you put the idler pulley on the wrong side! You have it pushing against the power transmission side of the chain (section moving upward).. the engine power simply shoves your idler back loosening the chain. Instead lose the idler completely, tighten the chain by moving the motor (like on any racing kart).. or remount that idler to push on the other downward moving section of chain. Also, keep it simple, use a larger axle gear and a much smaller engine gear .. you probably want around 6:1 or 7:1 ratio for a motor like that. Most racing 2 stroke karts use a clutch gear that is the smallest which can possibly be used (9 tooth #35 or 10-11 tooth 219 chain). Yes, 20 deg caster is way too much on king pins ... for a kid kart and low speeds, I'd go for a very low caster nothing larger than 12deg and maybe much less (5-8 deg) .. will make it easier for your kid to turn the steering wheel.
All very good points. Question about the idler. I don't see that it's on the wrong side. I may have missed something. I'm glad an expert said something. It helps tremendously. Oh, btw, I think it's throwing the chain because the motor is wobbling around. When I saw the first video I didn't like that mount. It's for holding the chain bar. Never meant to hold the motor. I see other points on the motor that might be better to anchor it from.
man i want a metal lathe so bad even a wood lathe would be awesome so many projects i want to accomplish btw im a new sub just found your channel this morning. Your funny.btwnot thatthis is relevant but i build and make illusions for Professional Magicians.
Very cool build! A good Tig weld is like art work that I could stare at for hours. Looking forward to installment #3 of: "As The Go Kart Builds". Take care!
I enjoy this sort of thing with my daughters... no father for me growing up... didn't miss it... just didn't have it. I still made my own projects and learned from experience instead. It gave me independence... =D
Lookin' good Tony. Don't forget to apply the Ackerman principle in episode 3. This whole steering linkage geometry thing makes me think back and laugh at myself as a kid. First go kart I built, ignorant of such things, just snow plowed in the gravel instead of actually turning. A hard learned life lesson at a tender age, and was a real head scratcher of a disappointment. Thanks for the memory Tony. LOL
Beautiful work. You seem to have no Real plan but very capable of changing ideas at any time. It looks good enough your grandkids will even be able to enjoy it !!!
I haven't read all the comments which probably has hit on the chain problem by now but in case not the bicycle sprockets are the problem if you think of it they are designed to jump the gears so to speak. Great video work.
The theory of steering geometry For a neutral setting the centre line if the "kingpin" should intersect the centre of the contact area of the tyre this allows the tyre to rotate about its centre altering the "kpi" king pin inclination shifting the intersection point outside the tyre contact centre point or positive position will create over steer moving it to the negative will give understeer. Normally everyday cars have negative and sports cars have positive which is why sports cars and not so good drivers end up spinning out so much I love the work you do and the way you present your videos ... long may you rock....
I'm building a few chainsaw/mini Moto go karts this year, that engine kit you got was a sweet deal. Wheels and steering components is what I was looking for so thanks for showing all the bits and bobs. ATB Darren
Necro post, but great series. For future reference, 15 degrees of caster (the amount the kingpin leans back toward the rear wheels) is a nice generic setting that gives a nice amount of self centring without too much steering weight or steering lift. You'll want the king pin to hit the ground a little ahead of the front wheel's contact patch, if you extended the king pins to the ground. For king pin inclination, a specific angle isn't important. What IS important is to try to get the king pin to virtually extend and hit the ground roughly in the middle of the tire tread. This will help give the kart a nice neutral steering feel.
The youth center i went to as a kid created two Go Karts from lawn mower engines. I helped build the second one, but I was 13, so I didn't get to do some of "fun" stuff like welding. :D They were a lot of fun to drive.
I recently threw away an old chainsaw. Afterward, I thought "maybe I should have saved it to try to make a motorized bike." Now I think I made the right decision, so thank you :)
Hey This Old Tony, the kart is looking awesome! I thought I'd mention the 20deg castor angles help with the lack of differential on the rear axel, as they force the weight distribution to lift the inside rear wheel. you may want to be careful reducing the angle too much as rear axel traction could reduce control authority... also don't forget about ackerman angles on the control arms, my karts kept eating tires without them ;) Keep up the good work, I love your channel!
Loving it! But good heavens you have to support that engine's output. The overhang is colossal on that thang. I think the cast alu CVT case will twist/break immediately once the chain is on and you hit go. Shortening the output so the leverages aren't such hell might be a neater solution. Everything you've done yourself is class. Of course it's the one bit that's off the shelf which has sucky design! Keep being awesome!
I'm 2 minutes and 20 seconds into the video and I had to stop right here and say,Bawahahah hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha!! Great move on the new engine! I have been watching and enjoying the build. Your welding skills are spot on! I have been doing this stuff for 54 years now. I'm 59 years old and yes I built my first kart when I was 5 years old with my grandmother's wooden ironing board and my grandfather's rototiller, along with a few other things, bench grinder!
Very nice. Good job. Your kids will be very happy. I was thinking through your chainsaw engine dilemma (being a mechanical sort) when you came up with an elegant solution. Perfect timing in your video and very good production. So, A+ overall. Rock on dude.
Bicycle gears have ramps designed to help in shifting. On a high RPM setup they will throw the chain everytime.
That was the problem. He was using a chainring setup designed for multiple gears with ramps to shift. If he'd used a singlespeed chainring and cassette gear and chain it wouldn't have slung the chain.
Well good info guys. We all live and learn!
So bicycle chain is ok as long as you a single sprocket set up??
@@samus40glock if the sprocket is designed for single speed, probably.
Hugo chen most single speed chain rings have a “narrow-wide” design on the teeth, its superior in keeping the chain on. Chain rings from a 3 x setup have narrow teeth that allow any amount of lateral force to shift it
Your kid is damn lucky, I wish my father put a fraction of this effort into anything when I was growing up. You're a great dad
Thats Kind of Sad but I feel you
Same
Some day you will make a great dad as well. You know what not to do. My Dad wasn't perfect. That being said his Dad was an abusive drunk so he was better than that. I'm trying to be better than mine.
@@Parents_of_Twins i actually can't have kids so I'll settle for being the world's best uncle, but thank you for your kind words!
Same
This was fun to watch. I am 57 and have wanted to build a gokart since I was 8 years old.
A couple of years ago I bought a 6.5HP motor, but still haven't got to building it yet.
I am thinking I will be in my 60's when I finally rip it up in a gokart. Fortunately I am still a kid at heart.
Cheers
Video 1: *chainsaw go cart*
Video 2: *“chainsaw” go cart*
Video 3: *go cart*
Jip here´s another sucker that is gonna be very tired tommorow at work ...i have to see them all in one go now ..
Grtzz from the Netherlands
Johny geerts
I find it really useful that you leave in the mistakes and rethinking. Great project.
Dear "This Old Tony",
Firstly, I hope this gets through to you.
Secondly, I want to say thank you so much for the time and information you've put into your videos. I am an "import" living in SE Asia where I have no chance to learn this kind of material, but your videos have been teaching me how to become a better machinist. I truly mean it, you have helped me learn what would be impossible otherwise because I have no opportunity to go to school where I live.
Anyway, I want to help with what I can. I am a scooter mechanic by trade (of 6 years or so) and I work with small engines every day, so I am very familiar with...well, small engines. Since I can't do much to contribute monetarily to your channel, I wanted to help you with some information that I believe might help.
1) Those bicycle gears and chain are not going to hold up. Ignoring all the complex maths (yes, Brit speak), even a mild electric assist mountain bike (1/2 - 3/4 horsepower) can snap regular bike chains and cassettes, so a 2 1/2 horsepower motor would be way too much for them to handle as you've seen. So I'd forget using bicycle parts altogether, although I know you've fabbed stuff already. Sorry but, just my suggestion. It's not the play in the clutch (motorcycle pinion gears have lots of side to side play), but just that the chain and gears themselves are too weak.
However, there is a very cheap and durable solution, check out "Pitbike" gears and chains for a range of very cheap but strong (enough) gears for your drivetrain. Even the smallest 420 pitch chain, pinion and wheel gear are enough for 6 - 8 horsepower applications (about 4 times more than your motor at max power/torque). Cheap import chains are just fine and will take all the power of the mild tune chainsaw motor you can throw at it. Of course the gears will need to be machined to fit the axle/output shaft etc, but I suspect that will be no problem for you.
2) That small motor likely is going to burn itself up very quickly because it probably uses a plastic camshaft and possibly followers. Not much you can do about that, but just thought I'd make that heads up addition.
3) When you install the engine to the final gear, scooters use what we call a "cush drive", essentially rubber inserts that the dogs of the spur gear uses (sorry, hard to describe) to absorb the shock of stop and go throttling. Look up motorcycle cush drive and you'll get an idea, very easy to fab up a drive unit, even for me with a welder and basic hand tools. Interestingly, just the addition of these rubber drives it greatly not only extends the life of the chain, but the engine as well (as the engine interal parts don't receive that jolt from on and off power). So for the drive, I would recommend some kind of damper.
Anyway that's just a few observations and tips I can offer.
Okay, hope this reaches you as your help has been invaluable to me and I want to contribute what little I can from around the world
Thank you much from SE Asia
Mini Motor Man
Just found your channel by accident. ..I'm hooked. Your ability to use the bender you have, your welding skills, and lathe skills. ABSOLUTELY AWESOME. Thank you for sharing with us.
Looking good. Your son is lucky to have a father like you.
Your helper has nice hands
You are a great Dad. When I was a kid my Dad made me a bike from spare parts,It had a big tire on the back and a little tire on the front. I was cool, that was 55 years ago and I think of it all the time. I really like your little go cart. Big thumbs up!!!! M.K.S.
Here I thought I was a good fabricator, you my friend are an amazing fabricator! FYI- I put a chainsaw on a skateboard when I was 13 years old. It was an old McCollugh and I used a Hoover round rubber vacuum cleaner belt and cut a groove on the rear skateboard wheel chucked up on a drill press. Yeah, the belt slipped on the clutch sprocket but once you got going it was fun, scary, and loud!! Thank you for your channel. It’s therapy watching you work when I don’t have the time too!
I am a manufacturing engineering student at Cal Poly Pomona, and took courses on milling, turning, casting and welding.
I learned a lot from your UA-cam. Channel especially on tune bending. Your cart is coming out nice I am enjoying all your projects and tutorials. Excited for the final product.
remember that most steering geometry info is for vehicles with suspension and relatively soft tires, that is the chassis moves relative to the steering pivot and the tire flexes significantly so the caster and camber are set to help cancel out the negative effects of that movement. Also the dynamic effects are going to be different from the static effect.(eg. what feels heavy stopped may be just right in actual cornering)
Toe in is used to remove the slop in the connection linkage during forward motion[when the ground is pushing the wheels back], more in-toe dampens, removing wandering and twitchy tendencies, too much causes tire wear and a sluggish response.
10° of camber, 20° of castor?! Jesus Christ, it’s like a Harley chopper and a Japanese VIP car all in one
I know this is now a historical video, but I've been so impressed with part 2. A proper cut and shut, too. Respect. Reminds me of the simple wooden 'pram' go cart that my granddad made for me, which had lots of iterations. Sort of Toyota's 'kaizen', but we just fixed lot of breaks. My go cart was gravity powered but had a rear brake and was a lot of fun and very solid, but simple steering. This video reminded of it, which I've not thought about for ages. Cool work, TOT.
13:38 Keep it! Your kids will appreciate the "posh" Mercedes Benz steering geometry!!
YOU DO GOOD WORK, EVERYONE LEARNS AS THEY GO!!! YOU ARE LUCKY TO HAVE A LATHE & A TIG WELDER!!! I am slowly accumulating tools & want nothing more then my own garage/shop!!! As a child, I had a go-cart & it had twin engine stands & twin sprockets! WISH I STILL HAD IT!!!
I don't know what you do for a living but based on how you "play" I'm going to bet that you are damned good at it.
You could have made a strait axle for the front make it like a model T the also use strait axle in circle dirt track racing Sprint Cars
7:31 is someone peeking through that bottom left hole, or am I losing it?
ProjectoDeMayhem creepy!!!!!
Yeeeaaaap that was definitely an eye peeking for half a sec 😳
Impatient kid
It's his cat
the comment i was looking for
disappointed you gave up on the chainsaw engine..
same.. just order #35 chain and sprockets , and run the gear reducer.
Rob M I've seen other people on UA-cam run the chain straight to the drive gear and they seem to work fine? They use a chainsaw engine and I'm honestly really confused why it didn't work for him?
chain tension is the biggest culprit , especially on #25 chain or TF8 bike chain .. Tf8 also requires perfect alignment , since a lot of those rear gears are meant to discharge the chain during gear changes on a bicycle. You pretty much need to start with the chain piano wire tight , and let the natural chain stretch happen to get it " just right"
Silent, old chainsaws were 125cc like a kart engine and can work at 6:1 reduction, but a new chainsaw with tiny 49 - 50cc engine needs about 15 - 20:1 reduction with a jackshaft setup to increase the reduction...
Juniper, just needs the proper amount of gear reduction... it positively works then...
I'm 44yrs old and I do know a lot.... but I wish I knew half as much as you... you're the man :)
Yes been waiting forever for part 2!!!!!!
same here, this is the peak excitement in my life at 36 yrs old.
Haha
Rob M man, if you told me seven years ago that I'd be this excited for some old tony on UA-cam, I don't know how I would have taken it. Come to think of it I'm pretty sure some further time travel paradoxes would need addressing.
Same here too!
Hey Tony I have a little experience with mini quads and pocket bikes and I don't think you have a cvt. They take up a lot more space. It looks just like a ~3 :1 chain/sprocket reduction. One end is connected directly to clutch bell of a typical centrifugal clutch. I've been thinking about a small engine gokart for a few years now. Really enjoying these videos. I need to get a bender like that.
that is a very strange and interesting frame design. my simply go kart was just 1/4 inch steel tubing bent into a square with a box at one end to hold up the engine. there was a piece of a sheet metal welded inside the square for the seat and for stability. basically it had no "sides" like yours does (it had a fiberglass shell that sat on the frame). i recomment welding in a piece of sheet metal for the floor of your go kart because it will protect your kids legs the best, and mounting the seat will be easy. i also recomment putting a kill switch grounded to the chasis under the seat that your kids can easily reach. i had to hit my kill switch a few times very quickly when the engine had issues or when i broke a chain or unseated a tire
This is much more of a space frame design like you'd see in a kit car (albeit with square tube instead of round). I believe he mentioned wanting to go for a space frame in part 1. Gives great strength for weight.
Upvoted and commented because of the kill switch. 100% good idea. I can only assume he'll be putting a sheet floor in there already, but the kill switch could be easy to overlook.
before i knew anything about electrics in cars or go karts, i used to think the kill switch was magic because it only had one lead running out to it haha.
i wasn't familiar with the term "space frame" until i read your comment. i've known about the usefullness of trusses and triangles, but now i have a word for it
wow that is one sweet frame that you built ! Your kids will be spoiled and it should last a long time as well !Haave you thought about adoption ? I'm potty trained and I really want to learn more when it comes to the lathe andd mill ! I a a good learner and know how to sweep !
cody cheney can you say: Det er ikke så mye som skjer i Trondheim?
I can't say that I can ! What can I do for ya ?
cody cheney 0
hvorfor snakker du norsk? her på nett?
@@isak338 Det er ikke så mye som skjer i Trondheim
THAT THING WILL FLY ! those engines have way more power than they sound to have .. Fun times ahead for the kids ! Thumbs up Tony ..
All those neat little welds make me want to go and buy a bottle of argon....
That yoke; you can call it a King-pin bracket. If anyone is interested in making sich a go-kart it's to good to dive in these principles as well: Ackermann, dive and squat of the suspension, chamber, caster, king-pin inclination (as in the video). Its looking like a cool video Tony, very inspiring! And very enjoyable to watch!
whatever i was just doing, stopped.
ok i lied i wasnt doing anything...
Tony Fleetwood well you stopped not doing anything
Tony Fleetwood Monday-Friday, 8:00.
Uploaded lies this is no chainsaw engine
@@tommycox63 yes
your frame design would be a lot stiffer if you made it like a truss, and made sure that all sections of it are triangular shaped. The triangle force each member to be in compression or tension. You could easily modify what you have my adding some more diagonal pieces to make 'triangles' along the length of the frame
9:47 Trust me! I’m an engineer!! With epic skills and epic gear.
I can explain the world to U, all I need IS your chair!
When i made my first chainsaw bike, and was young and not so expirienced. I also tried bicycle chain, and figured out 10sec later that it wasnt gonna work. I then switched to bike chain and had no problems.
yep, I was gonna suggest using a proper motorcycle chain
Not sure why all that trouble and expense. The chainsaw already has a perfectly good chain... AND it's strong enough and designed to suit the RPMs.
@@johncoops6897 well think about it if his kids fell in the wrong direction they can lose a arm
@@noob_master_6913- think about it, it's called a joke.
@@johncoops6897 you see that's the funny thing,I did know that,and I was jus sayin😂
Chainsaw engines were used in the early days until dedicated engines were built. “Nothing new under the sun.”
That long output shaft on the CVT looks like its going to be quite hard on its bearings. I recommend shortening it or maybe supporting it somehow. With such a small sprocket on it, that shaft is going to see quite highish forces and get alot of leverage.
I thought this might be a problem, but I also thought the run-out on that sprocket was significant. Feedback via the chain could really be a hassle down the road, I think.
Moraren It could use a pillow block bearing in the middle to help with side loading issues that may arise.
the single most aggressive alighnment ive ever heard of i love it
As expected, this video hits all the right spots.
Your A very clever and talented guy. My grandfather had A go cart shop in the 60's . I have his entire inventory . REALLY cool stuff .
The cat at 7:35 looking through the hole in the welding table! lol
Bro, you had some really sharp eyes 2 years ago
What a fun project. Every dad should own a machine shop!
This looks super lightweight, Colin Chapman would be very proud of you.
Your meticulous and deliberate work is top notch.... wow! Great welds and engineering!
Tony, that is turning out beautifully, I really like watching this as I started a go kart project just before high school about 6 years ago, I had a lot of trouble and it took me so long that every time I came back to work on it I would be irritated with my past design! 😁
I'm really enjoying this series, your boy is going to have a phenomenal time with that!
Good luck with the rest of it!
The front "U" shape bendy thing is called a STEERING KNUCKLE. It contains the KING PIN you made that connects to the axle that pivots the steering wheels so the cart can avoid the mean mean trees. Love your show. Laffing my head off every episode. :-)
This was the second video of Tony's I ever saw, loved it then, love it now..
Thanks random UA-cam algorithm for suggesting this again.. 😁
Happy new year ToT.. 👍🍻🎇🎆
You are very interesting to watch. I like that you either use your mistakes or fix them. We need more people like us.
You do realize that the first "Go Karts" used chainsaw engines. The engine of choice was the McCollough because of its high rpm and 6 hp. At least that's the one I had. Poulan wasn't even in the running, Homelite was the second choice.
Lots of the oldest go karts and chainsaws used Tecumseh 2 strokes
Great job Tony! Growing up I always wanted a GoCart. You did an amazing job. The only thing I would have wanted on mine different. Is I would want more power... lol
250 - 300 cc. That opens up a ton of engineering challenges. For the kids this is perfect. Again great job!!
Tony, I think your caster and camber angles are far too aggressive. A normal road car has around 3 degrees of caster and .5 degrees of negative camber. With king-pin steering, the camber should be set so the scrub radius of the tire is minimized; the kingpin centerline should continue to the centerline of the tire, so the tire doesn't scrub when turning. This can be accomplished through a combination of kingpin inclination and positive camber at the tire, or increased kingpin inclination and zero camber. I wouldn't add a bunch of caster or camber, 6 degrees of caster is probably good, you want the steering to be light enough.
The caster angle is definitely aggressive, but the camber is essentially zero - it has nothing to do with the angle of the kingpin, but the angle of the tire, which in this case looks perfectly vertical to my calibrated eyeball. What he called caster was actually the steering axis angle, which does nothing but change the scrub radius.
Don't forget that unlike a road car the kart has no rear differential, only a solid axle. This would make it difficult to steer properly so you need a good level of caster to lift the rear inside tyre off the ground and allow it to slip around the turn. Caster tuning range (on a kart) is 8 - 20 degrees, with 20 giving more lift, but heavier steering. I would start at 10 degrees for children to be able to turn the steering wheel.
Yep, they sound really aggressive when compared with car, but it will be a whole order lighter.
I'm still watching the commercial that UA-cam is making me watch before this video, and this is still the highlight of my day.
Have you tried using a derailer? the spring loaded tensioning effect might fix it.
man the engineering and thought that went into this is absolutely stunning absolutely massive respect!
there is no cvt it's just a chain drive reduction box, MAKE SURE TO GREASE IT UP OR IT WILL BREAK
robertas grigas I knew it was just too great of a deal to be true.! interesting how the manufacturer used some deliberate designing to further create the illusion of a cvt tucked into that cool cover. I wonder why there isnt a cvt set up being produced for these motors. it would be great on a motored bicycle instead of the cheesy hand clutch arrangement that is the weak link in those ebay kits.
Always a pleasure to watch you work. That shop is heaven. cant wait for part 3
Hey Tony, nice build. On the camber angle when you welded on the wheel spindles, and placed them parallel to the ground, didn't you essentially negate the camber angle you'd just installed onto the bracket? If you when you think about it, when you adjust your camber on the car, the wheels move with it. I think the spindles should be perpendicular to the brackets they are welded onto. Just a thought
Looking really good now Tony !
If you reverse the steering yoke sub-assemblies (e.g. at 07:22) it gives more space for the steering arm to articulate. So the yoke has a stub axle welded to it and the vertical tube is welded back to the main frame, usually on a short outrigger tube. If you are chopping them off the frame anyway, then you may want to swap them around so they work the other way.
Don't forget the Ackerman geometry and point the steering arms inwards slightly to point to the centre of the rear axle (as seen in plan view), not just straight back.
Also , I'm sure they are just place holders but stiffen up the engine mounting rails A LOT as they will get pulled down strongly by the chain load and throw the chain.
Finally don't put the fuel tank directly under the child's hair.
Good work . . . eagerly awaiting part 3
Chain problem is because you put the idler pulley on the wrong side! You have it pushing against the power transmission side of the chain (section moving upward).. the engine power simply shoves your idler back loosening the chain. Instead lose the idler completely, tighten the chain by moving the motor (like on any racing kart).. or remount that idler to push on the other downward moving section of chain. Also, keep it simple, use a larger axle gear and a much smaller engine gear .. you probably want around 6:1 or 7:1 ratio for a motor like that. Most racing 2 stroke karts use a clutch gear that is the smallest which can possibly be used (9 tooth #35 or 10-11 tooth 219 chain).
Yes, 20 deg caster is way too much on king pins ... for a kid kart and low speeds, I'd go for a very low caster nothing larger than 12deg and maybe much less (5-8 deg) .. will make it easier for your kid to turn the steering wheel.
All very good points. Question about the idler. I don't see that it's on the wrong side. I may have missed something. I'm glad an expert said something. It helps tremendously. Oh, btw, I think it's throwing the chain because the motor is wobbling around. When I saw the first video I didn't like that mount. It's for holding the chain bar. Never meant to hold the motor. I see other points on the motor that might be better to anchor it from.
The music is inspiring! It inspires me to become a serial killer.
ha!
your welds are so freakin good. plz teach me senpai. (make a welding vid! ) =)
I've built many of these, and this one is every bit as good. I'm sure you know about the "ackerman angle" for the steering. Its important. Great job.
man i want a metal lathe so bad even a wood lathe would be awesome so many projects i want to accomplish btw im a new sub just found your channel this morning. Your funny.btwnot thatthis is relevant but i build and make illusions for Professional Magicians.
The size of that brake gives the whole cart a safety factor of 100. No children are dying on Tony's watch
Are you planning on telling the wife after its finished and asking forgiveness instead of permission?
Its always easier to ask forgiveness.
Forgiveness nookie is always far easier than permission nookie...
I really like that you put no music, makes it very easy to listen to
Anyone remember Make It Extreme's video yesterday?
Ceazar Carr yep!
Yea
Bro you replied to my other comment too :)
of course.
Very cool build! A good Tig weld is like art work that I could stare at for hours. Looking forward to installment #3 of: "As The Go Kart Builds". Take care!
"Thanks for watching"??? Thanks for building, filming, editing... No thank you!
I enjoy this sort of thing with my daughters... no father for me growing up... didn't miss it... just didn't have it.
I still made my own projects and learned from experience instead. It gave me independence... =D
very nice craftsmanship!!! deff can't wait to see the final cart!!
Lookin' good Tony. Don't forget to apply the Ackerman principle in episode 3.
This whole steering linkage geometry thing makes me think back and laugh at myself as a kid. First go kart I built, ignorant of such things, just snow plowed in the gravel instead of actually turning. A hard learned life lesson at a tender age, and was a real head scratcher of a disappointment. Thanks for the memory Tony. LOL
Love the quality of your videos and the problem solving as you go. Unique. Honest. Humorous.
Nice to see I'm not the only one who gets half way through a projects and realizes that I need to change things around.
I love the way you put your videos together it's kind of a Class Clown intelligent teacher going on which I enjoyed a lot thanks for the content
Thanks for debunking my child fantasy of attaching a chainsaw to a go-cart. This really saved me years of regret.
Beautiful work. You seem to have no Real plan but very capable of changing ideas at any time. It looks good enough your grandkids will even be able to enjoy it !!!
I haven't read all the comments which probably has hit on the chain problem by now but in case not the bicycle sprockets are the problem if you think of it they are designed to jump the gears so to speak. Great video work.
wish i would of had a Dad like you, thanks for showing, awesome!
The theory of steering geometry For a neutral setting the centre line if the "kingpin" should intersect the centre of the contact area of the tyre this allows the tyre to rotate about its centre altering the "kpi" king pin inclination shifting the intersection point outside the tyre contact centre point or positive position will create over steer moving it to the negative will give understeer. Normally everyday cars have negative and sports cars have positive which is why sports cars and not so good drivers end up spinning out so much
I love the work you do and the way you present your videos ... long may you rock....
CVT was the only other option I could think of after seeing the snapped chains. It is awesome you found a whole unit on the cheap.
Hi Tony, love your craftsmanship - respect!
I'm building a few chainsaw/mini Moto go karts this year, that engine kit you got was a sweet deal.
Wheels and steering components is what I was looking for so thanks for showing all the bits and bobs.
ATB
Darren
That frame looks freakin AWESOME !!
I had a smile on my face the entire time I watched this! Well done TOT!
Really digging the 8kbps royalty free music!
The most anticipated video on the entirety of the interwebs
loving the series. thought the recess for the delrin was genius I would have just made washers. awesome work
your machinist skills are awesome great quality of steel work keep up the great work👍
This brings back a lot of memories. Up thumb.
Great project. My 1965 Honda 50 had a 50CC 4 stroke engine. It went well.
Necro post, but great series.
For future reference, 15 degrees of caster (the amount the kingpin leans back toward the rear wheels) is a nice generic setting that gives a nice amount of self centring without too much steering weight or steering lift. You'll want the king pin to hit the ground a little ahead of the front wheel's contact patch, if you extended the king pins to the ground.
For king pin inclination, a specific angle isn't important. What IS important is to try to get the king pin to virtually extend and hit the ground roughly in the middle of the tire tread. This will help give the kart a nice neutral steering feel.
The youth center i went to as a kid created two Go Karts from lawn mower engines. I helped build the second one, but I was 13, so I didn't get to do some of "fun" stuff like welding. :D
They were a lot of fun to drive.
That's a damn nice go kart! I wouldn't mind having one like it.
I thought this would never get here. Every day I've been checking to see if you uploaded part 2!
Keep up this great work. Your past instructors are proud of you.
This is getting really interesting.
Whatever the final results, you have totally earned the S.D. (super-dad) T-shirt.
Hope that your kid really appreciates all the work you are doing for him! 😎
You are a very skilled and talented man. Your videos are delightful.
Just subscribed after seeing this video. Man "Cars and Camera" boys would love you, your frame is a masterpiece.
I recently threw away an old chainsaw. Afterward, I thought "maybe I should have saved it to try to make a motorized bike." Now I think I made the right decision, so thank you :)
Thank you for sharing with the rest of us dimwits! Your process is truly inspiring, have a blast with your kids when it's go go!
Hey This Old Tony, the kart is looking awesome! I thought I'd mention the 20deg castor angles help with the lack of differential on the rear axel, as they force the weight distribution to lift the inside rear wheel. you may want to be careful reducing the angle too much as rear axel traction could reduce control authority... also don't forget about ackerman angles on the control arms, my karts kept eating tires without them ;) Keep up the good work, I love your channel!
Loving it! But good heavens you have to support that engine's output. The overhang is colossal on that thang. I think the cast alu CVT case will twist/break immediately once the chain is on and you hit go. Shortening the output so the leverages aren't such hell might be a neater solution.
Everything you've done yourself is class. Of course it's the one bit that's off the shelf which has sucky design! Keep being awesome!
I'm 2 minutes and 20 seconds into the video and I had to stop right here and say,Bawahahah hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha!! Great move on the new engine! I have been watching and enjoying the build. Your welding skills are spot on! I have been doing this stuff for 54 years now. I'm 59 years old and yes I built my first kart when I was 5 years old with my grandmother's wooden ironing board and my grandfather's rototiller, along with a few other things, bench grinder!
Very nice. Good job. Your kids will be very happy. I was thinking through your chainsaw engine dilemma (being a mechanical sort) when you came up with an elegant solution. Perfect timing in your video and very good production. So, A+ overall. Rock on dude.