We Need To Talk About Crafted Weapons.
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
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Let's talk about crafted weapons and how they need a serious adjustment moving forward for Destiny 2.
PATREON: / ascendantnomad
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TWITTER: / ascendantnomad
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Crafted Weapons Are A Problem
2:23 - Red Borders Are The New God Rolls
3:58 - A Confused Philosophy
6:03 - The Inequity of Purpose
9:00 - How Many?
10:13 - The Solution - Ігри
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I need help the characters lost bug happened to me. I lost all my wespons and armor i have grinded hard for 😢I have 6000 hours in the game and need answers. Please help me spread this to the right people gamertag GoodinNumbers55
bruh i did grasp of avrice 2900 times for the godroll eyasluna i never got it so gave upbecuase in the 2 years it came out i have now crafted a somewhat good enough version of a 140 hc
I love my Eliatic Principle 😢
Anytime I hear anyone say we need to adjust crafted weapons, I just think of Cammy’s video about it. Nothing should ever be done to bring back more rng until there are means of curbing that rng
I agree. I'd rather not have to farm months and months for a single gun for every gun. I'm still trying to get an envious assassin target lock circular logic to this day. Crafted weapons are a good way to mediate the horrible rng and I personally don't have an issue with them.
I'd rather spend more time using the god roll I crafted than farming the god roll. The rng in this game can feel way too unforgiving
I see posts about how crafting in its current state is unhealthy for the game and can't help but feeling like dumping hours into iron banner or trials to only focus pure dogshit rolls is far worse than whatever grievances they may have with that system. Grinding for perfect weapon rolls from raids was potentially torturous in the past, and grinding for perfect dungeon rolls still is. It's worse yet when the activity is made to be tedious and not very fun.
@@Energumenus Bungie then proceeds to increase the amount of engrams needed for focusing.
Crafting is definitely not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. They all forget about the pain of rng on every single gun. Especially when raids still are not farmable outside of the weekly raid. I'd much rather spend more time using the gun I crafted than farming for a roll I might not even get for a year
@@Energumenus I understand you completely. I reset Iron banner 4 times to get a roll which in the end I did not get. Such a waste of time, is incredible. Thanks god we have craftable. I would only agree on the Enchansed perk, I would give 1 perk only enchanced to adept weapons so to keep them in line but give the a purpose and remove it from the normal legendary.
@@Lightstation_Lol they would do that, more player engagement time(grinding your ass off) statistically means a higher likelihood of making an in-store purchase after all.
Personally, red borders & crafting actually got me into raiding because it guarantees that the limited time I invest will be rewarded in some way. Sure I could get the god-roll on my first chest without the need to craft it (In which case I would just use until I have the pattern so it's a win-win) but doing 1 raid a week to get the pattern feels like I'm actually working towards something and not just hoping it happens.
It rewards constant/weekly raiding over endless grinding. As a bonus, once I'm finished with my weekly raid, I can focus on other things like story missions, vanguard/crucible or dungeons.
I would also add that having a good world drop/seasonal activity drop once in a while doesn't hurt and motivates people to run certain activity in hopes of getting a good roll.
Exactly, I actually really like how it is lmao
And the hype for getting a godroll, yeah it's not as much, idk about you guys but I get INSANELY hyped when I get red borders
So the hype isn't gone it just shifted lmao
100% agree. Crafting got me to reinvest in the endgame. There's still an element of RNG (red border drops) but also that feeling of steady progression. Crafting makes me feel like my time and effort are being rewarded.
Yeah I agree on the time part, I remember it took me 6 hours to do VOG and all I got in the end was a crap stat helmet and awful weapons, waste of 6 hours of my life.
You can have that without the way crafting system killed the rest of the game (including adept weapons from raids).
Everything you drop in the raid is crap, even the red border is just some "garbage" with the red border you want. We don't even level the weapons anymore. No more "wow, nice drop" and more like "damn, finally a red border Bungo, damn".
And as Nomad said, as soon as people get their red borders, they stop doing the activity and now I need to look for another group instead of forcing the former to still go to the raid.
The genre of the game (looter shooter) just diluted. They should at least remove the enhanced perks to keep the crafting as a RNG failsafe rather than the best thing around and only broken non-crafted weapons can put some fight.
I feel you on the “get the god roll on first try, but still do raid for red border progress” point. I got my Reconstruction Recombination Heritage in my first chest after Atraaks-1, and have been satisfied with it, and frankly, very proud of it (came with Smallbore Accurized and Handling, I was STOKED, especially considering the Spacewalk and Taniks was coming up)
But by that same merit, I still want to get back into the Crypt, because I’m excited about getting a good roll crafted on a different weapon (namely Commemoration and Bequest), and learning how to do the mechanics better so I can do it more efficiently and effectively (I want that flawless shader SO BADLY)
Before crafting launched I imagined it working like a knockout system for perks. Each random drop you get unlocks those perks in the crafting menu. If you get the roll you want before all the perks you can stop.
It should have been like this. It still keeps the energy of getting a godroll, but it does still give a greater chance compared to random rng
This makes so much more sense to me than the 5 patterns, an actual feeling of progression instead of hoping for the 5th pattern
IMO, an "ideal" solution would be making crafting something you can do to any weapon, modifying random drops by changing perk selection after an investment of resources and/or experience.
Sort of like vanilla destiny perk leveling but your weapon doesn't start out useless - you just get the ability to change a variety of perks with gameplay investment.
Enhanced perks could be craftable on "anything," but pinnacle-tier drops would have a higher chance of dropping already enhanced with better perk pools.
Maybe craftable weapons should just unusable frames that drop with no perks until you invest in them? A bit like the Lament or the Rev Zero quests?
Having an enhancement core (to get enhanced perks, once per core) that would drop from end game content would be the best solution for that problem imo.
That sounds great on paper until a month or so later went power creep would completely end all weapon grind desire way more than it is right now
Crafting is the best thing to ever happen in Destiny. I, in general, cannot get behind anyone wanting to reduce its effectiveness in the game.
A lot of people look at crafting as a way to curb RNG, but does anyone remember when Joe Blackburn described it as the ultimate weapons experience? Being able to customize weapons to the exact specification that players want and being able to track how long they have had it? I think this is lost on people.
I like crafted weapons having enhanced perks, but I do think that the gold border should have been granted by slotting the Enhanced Intrinsic only as that is the equivalent to a masterwork. The perks being enhanced is just a little extra on top. To solve the complaints of RNG apologists, just give the ability for random drops to be enhanced if they /do/ manage to get the god roll before the pattern is unlocked.
In my opinion, adept weapons should have been phased out with weapon crafting as it is a very "Weapons 2.0" style system. Instead, Master raids could have granted cosmetics and mementos that would grant what would have been the adept shader for a weapon. Adept mods can also be phased out or rolled into the normal mod space with whatever balance is needed. Especially in PvE, the Spec mods are the only ones that typically matter.
RE: Master raids, the reason why nobody plays them is because...they are not great. Especially with the new difficulty changes that make it impossible to become at-level. A lot of punishment for basically nothing. They are a slog, even more so than last year thanks to the changes. They are just not fun to play.
RE: Deepsight resonance, I think Bungie could innovate and find additional ways of granting patterns. Instead of drops being the only way to get pattern progress, why not have other ways that grant progress or even have some vendor system to grant the pattern entirely after meeting certain objectives? People can still use their Deepsight Harmonizers to get patterns quicker, but the experience can be more than what we have now.
And yes, I do hope that dungeon weapons also become craftable at some point. The RNG in this game sucks and grinding boss encounters for hours while getting potentially nothing to show for it is a massive waste of time, and people are tired of that. Whether that be due to burnout or because there are better games worth spending time on.
A little louder so people in the back can hear you.
@@LtNoodle I think a lot of what I say will fall on deaf ears. People have been playing this game a lot longer than I have (I started August 2020) and have an idea of what they want. For most, that is chasing RNG and nostalgia. Does not matter if that means they waste more time in the game getting drops or that it is against their own best interest. They want the dopamine rush.
The more interesting thing about all of this is that people who want RNG are still free to grind for their drops, even now. Nobody does that though...because they know it is waste of time. They want the game changed to that /everyone/ else has to also grind RNG drops. Seems rather selfish to me.
You and I are pretty much in agreement here, and I’m not someone who started when you did. I’ve been around since D1 beta.
I’m one of those who sees it as an RNG mitigator (mainly because it is; it’s obviously good at that), but I also see it as an end game reward too. If I get it, I use it when I want and where I want. It’s great.
I don’t know if adepts are worthy of being phased out, because they have their own interesting benefits and twists, but I get where you’re coming from. They’re a much older weapon classification, so they’re more prone to stagnation or normalization. Even D1 had them in some capacity. However, I think they have more long term discussions and plans going on. Earlier this year, I remember some weapon devs in podcast interviews talking about ways they could innovate on nightfall and Trials adepts, and they’ve already rolled out their plan on raid adepts for Root and Crota. I don’t think they’re done with them yet.
However, I have doubts about dungeon guns becoming craftable. They’ve been basically using them for the sake of experimentation and versatility since Duality came out. Duality gave us our first 3 round burst linear (Stormchaser); Spire gave us our first 120 RPM legendary scout (Long Arm) and first sidearm with Desperado (Liminal Vigil); Ghosts gave us our first wave frame with Kill Clip (New Pacific Epitaph) and our first rapid fire glaive (Greasy Luck).
Enhanced perks is the Pandora's box here. The current system of "triumphs = drop rate boost" is VERY good solution for RNG exotics. For playlist drops, multi perk columns needs to be GUARANTEED upon X number of vendor resets. That should also apply to adepts from GMs and Trials.
I think the simple solution is the master raid adept system, but apply it to not just adept but craftables in general.
It puts the focus back on random rolls, but you can still level the weapon and use enhanced perks. And you can still use the crafting table to change the barrel and mag as you level it.
Completely removes the red border grind, and if they give ALL adept weapons, the master raid treatment adept weapons will be worth chasing again.
Just my 2 cents.
I disagree. Adding enhanced perks to craftables and adebts still wint be enough. Add enhancing to every single legendary weapon in the game.
@justsomedude1593 I actually agree. I think this should ultimately be a system ALL weapons adopt going forward.
The reason I enjoy crafted weapons is simply that I am a casual player. I never enjoyed a heavy grind for a single gun, and most of my day is taken up by work. Knowing that the guns waiting in Destiny for me are simply ones I need to level up. That is the reason I love using crafted weapons.
I've got a group of friends who play, about four of us consistently enough to try for aspirational content like GMs, and enough who play only casually from time to time that we can usually raid once a week or two. We mostly do VoG since that was the raid we trained the casual players on. VoG doesn't have crafted weapons, but by the time we got most of the group Mythoclast with catalyst (we did a handful of the drop rate increase challenges so this only took us ~10 runs or so), most of us were pretty done with VoG, the level of RNG required to find the exact perfect rolls of our favorite weapons was not equal to the grind. Considering this was without red borders, with a mix of both casuals and more grind-oriented players, I really don't think the issue is red borders at all. Conversely, the promise of red borders actually gets people in my group to log on more for raids like Kings Fall. Taken together I can't help but feel like raid red borders makes people more likely to raid in the first place, they are rewards that feel tangible enough to actually get people playing the game in the first place. I know my group's experience isn't the same as everyone's, but when I hear that people have every red border for every weapon for every raid, I can't help but feel like they are treating the game as a day job more than they should. Obviously there are people who kind of have to, this channel included, but I don't think that should be the focus for the devs making these game systems.
The only problem with crafting is that Bungie has seemed to build the game around it. Meaning other forms of content/chasing has become sparse because red boarders are the only real goal outside of a title.
Besides that… crafting isn’t a problem. Mindless grinding for RNG sometimes for YEARS to get a god role for a weapon in a video game is quite literally a mental illness… and I’m will for people to try and challenge that stance.
Specifically in the raid example if I have time I’ll do it with all 3 characters every week and then once I have all the armor once a week red boarders and maybe finish up some challenges and it takes about the whole season to 100% ref boarders and title without grinding the raid to death. That seems like fair, worthwhile and health amount of play for an activity.
I could go on a say I don’t play the dungeon any more than anything else to chase RNG and so on and so forth.
Truth be told… most of your video caveats is that the game has all sorts of problems and basically crafting makes it feel amplified. Which is the truth… outside of mini boss or boss DPS (and there’s been times it’s not even true then) weapons don’t even matter.
Exactly what I have been saying! Enhanced perks are the issue entirely. You could get the 1/1000 drop perfect roll, but it doesn’t matter because enhanced perks make it obsolete.
As one of the many people that don’t have many opportunities to raid, (my raids are very…. Very few and far between) I do appreciate the crafting system. I do recognize that there is an overall problem with the crafting system in relation to all of the points you have made. If there was someway to keep them around to where you can make them have average to above average roles so you can take them into raids and dungeons and get the BiS stuff there. I do agree with your point that comp PvP, trials, GM and raids should keep the enhanced perks. But as for someone like me as I’m sure like many others don’t get to taste raid or lighthouse gear all that much keeping the patterns to 5 I think is plenty fair. Those weapons can have the enhanced perks and they can just add the cherry on top to the gun so that way they don’t seem so overwhelming that you “have” to grind for them or you feel forced to in order to have a competitive edge. The ability to have adept mods and enhanced perks to make your chosen weapon 100% perfect should be “The” chase and having those things at the end or during trials and the raids and GMs seems like a good cherry to chase to get people to participate in those activities.
Having a set number of raids to do in order to get the weapon I am chasing makes me more motivated to do a raid rather than endlessly and hopelessly chasing a gun that may never drop.
I just miss my pinnacle weapons. I know that they became too ubiquitous, but boy-o-boy do I miss my recluse, mountaintop, breakneck, 21% delirium, and python. These were great weapons that probably should have been the standard for something to grind for, not just sunset out of usability. I'll definitely still pull one out of collections every once and awhile just to have some fun
This makes me realize over the last couple seasons, I've dismantled 99% of everything I've acquired, to the point of dismantling without even looking at the perks. I know my catalog is full of weapons to be crafted whenever I feel like it so any drops that don't offer something spicy or unique is an insta trash. Sucks not having the connection to the loot rush this game used to have.
Honestly that just sounds like what the game was before crafting to me, I'd still end up sharding 99% of the drops I got because they were god awful.
You‘d be doing the same even if there wasn’t any crafting. That’s just what you do in a looter shooter if you been playing for a while. You only keep the 5/5‘s.
@@SwoleakhulTheBlind Exactly, There's only so many ways to make the fairly mundane, non-exotic, guns of Destiny actually stand out and... well a fair few archetypes have already peaked. I highly doubt we'll see a breach loading GL that's better than Forbearance any time soon for example.
never doubt the power creep, two dmg perks in both columns and forbearance moves to the vault. magine chain reaction and rampage or something@@S3Cs4uN8
You know, the tiers proposed in this video could correspond to weapon qualities: Common (white) world drops, Uncommon (green) seasonal and core playlist weapons, Rare (blue) dungeons, raids, competitive and trials, and Legendary (Purple) adepts. That would add some functionality to an item system that exists and that players haven't interacted with for years.
I still wish you could choose to steal a perk instead of power with infusion instead of crafting. There's been so many times that I've been one perk short of a roll I wanted, and then the next drop has that one perk and nothing else
Ascendant! I absolutely love your videos, and I have a music question: What's the song you used during the War Thunder ad? You've used it for segments in your videos, and I absolutely love it!
I recently took a hard look at my vault and realized I use so few crafted weapons. I have them all and maybe 1/4 of them are “fun” or “useful” to use. I agree something needs to change. Like you, I don’t know what that would be.
To be frankly - only crafting keeps me still playing this game. To unlock all red borders from the raid you need a lot of time. And I think that it is enough for a one-time activity. RNG sucks, still dont get Vex after 50 completions.
Realistically, we need more ways of curbing the RNG from drops in general, or some method of helping you out with RNG, if youre going for your perfect roll, theres a lot of factors at play. I actually do like the way that they handled the adept enhanceable weapons from root of nightmares, where you can change barrel, mag, and masterwork, but your two main perks are set in stone. Even then though, getting perfect rolls is very much up to RNG, back in season of arrivals I was looking for an overflow + rampage False Promises, and it straight up took me like 100+ engram focuses to get it. Or looking for the god roll Memory Interdict for several months and finally getting the impulse + chain reaction roll only for it to not have prox nades. Having ways to curb RNG in your favor if you get unlucky would be extremely nice, and without that for random drops, crafting feels like the objectively superior option even disregarding enhanced perks.
Ultimately in terms of game design, I think it really comes down to the return on player time and effort investment. I personally don't care to do Master raids because the Adept weapons are only marginally better than the regular raid weapons, and are uncraftable meaning you have to contend with getting your god roll. Why should I spend multiple hours and way more effort to clear Kings Fall on master with challenges for adept weapons, when I could take an hour or so to blast through normal mode for red borders to entirely avoid the RNG on the adepts? Why should I do legend difficulty seasonal activities when the drops they give aren't really any better than the normal ones? People were so excited for being able to spend cores and glimmer to level weapons because leveling weapons is a time investment that people will spend resources to bypass. Bypassing excessive time and effort investment is part of the reason why crafting is a problem, and alleviating the strains on that kind of investment by offering more generous or lenient returns on your time investment would likely do wonders for helping out non crafted weapons
People are done doing that raid for borders and I barely stepped my feet into the newest reprised raid.
Don't think there was any doom and gloom here, just some realistic thoughts on the currrent situation. Well thought out IMO
Honestly I always hated the rng grind to the point where I just used whatever fell on the ground and was fun. Crafting made me somewhat care whats on it, but at the end of the day I just use what I find fun. I enjoy the current state of crafting because it feels more like my gun.
Make every gun craftable at base. But my RNG chase would be perks/perk combos that can be slotted into every gun. Want raid perks on a world drop that feels perfect? Grind that raid for the perks and then slot them in. Some new fire perk drops in S23 but you love your Piece of Mind? Go nuts. But also I'd love a wipe mechanic to go with it. You never lose the gun but you would have to regrind perks or find new ones. I don't know where enhanced perks live in this but I suppose you'd have to spend a decent amount of crafting mats for enhancing.
I burn to 50 engrams today to not get one roll of a gun from crucible in which I have a reset the rank four times which means I have multiple perks. 3 per column. I still didn’t get the gun I wanted. Imma craft every goddamn thing.
ultimately if the rarity of red borders from raids was slightly increased i think it would be a great improvement. No matter how fun a raid or activity is, it will eventually become boring to go back in week after week in search of the best loot, and craftable weapons provide a measurable goal to attain, however easy that goal may be.
I like the idea of tiered red borders with the highest tier "unlocking" the ability to craft with enhanced perks. The obvious downside is, in effect, the best weapons in the game will be reserved for the best players. Not sure how that can be mitigated.
On Eleatic Principle, I did not like it at first but it ended up making me love rapid-fire frame LMGs. I like it with Heating Up + Golden Tricorn. Pairs nicely with Getaway Artist on my Warlock.
Maybe if Bungie didn’t gatekeep god rolls I would agree. The amount of time and effort I’ve put into farming certain guns looking for specific roles that they know we want is absurd. I’m talking 2000 drops on certain guns without even the combination of the 2 perks that I want together but a bunch of combos of perks nobody would ever use
That joke at 4:53 made me laugh out loud , might be a joke but its exactly how it feels
If we had the option to essentially "cannibalize" perks from other weapons we are not using at all that are not already crafted into a gun that is just a frame i.e. a 540 and put in High Impact Reserves and Headseeker for the last two perk slots, like a Grasp of Malok I had D1 that I took everywhere and only switched it out when I needed longer ranges.
Other than that, it was far more bloodthirsty than the Hive from it's namesake. It would still require us to go hunting down guns in some way, but of course there would be rules like only pulse rife perks can be put into other pulse rifles for instance.
Make armor drop with set bonuses (that are actually changes the way we play) across all playlists. Adds something to chase besides weapons. Make master modes and end game activities drop artifice armor (raids and trials). Armor update. Adept mods need to be buffed to differentiate them from crafted gear.
The only issue I'd have with Adepts being the only thing with enhanced perks is they also have enhanced stats elsewhere. The top players already dominate PvP and this would just widen that gap, especially with SBMM being near useless due to low player population.
for the point of raid weapons I disagree in the fact that I get the Adepts over the craftables for RoN and CE. Despite me having every single raid weapon craftable from RoN and CE I refuse to craft them since the Adepts are always better
Hi, just a quick question from someone who's never done a master raid before: at 5:53, when Acasia's Dejection comes up on screen, what does the red logo next to "level up purchase" box mean? I was under the impression that adepts can't be crafted, so i'm just slightly confused as to what the presence of that square is. Also, what's the 4 red triangles around the 4th column perk represent? Thanks in advance to anyone who answers!
It means it was upgraded to work like a crafted weapon.
Starting with Root of Nightmares Bungie made it so that you can spend mats to upgrade a Adept raid weapon to a pseudo-crafted weapon. You can change the 1st and 2nd rows but not the 3rd and 4th, and the Masterwork is locked as well. But it means you can fine tune the Adept and make the perks Enhanced.
Getting an adept lets you upgrade it to have enhanced perks through multiple stages. The first unlock costs 12 spoils + 3 cores, and lets you start leveling the Adept as if it were crafted. At level 11 you can upgrade again, which costs 15k + 3 prisms + 1 alloy. At level 17 you can apply the tier 3 enhancement for the same cost.
Once the weapon is at tier 3 enhancement, you can take it back to the relic table to reshape with enhanced perks in the final two columns along with your choices of barrel/mag, but you cannot ever change the masterwork. Enhancing the perks at the table for the final time does not come with additional costs after the initial upgrades.
Aside from he problems mentioned here, the one I have with crafting is that managing loot is an utter mess now. I’m close to going crafted only but then all my drops become worthless. Auto shards.
My ideal crafting system is every weapon being slightly adjustable at the crafting table. Every column has 3 random craftable options. Say a 4/5 Spare Rations drops, with it's mag perk being Light Mag. You can take it to the crafting table and see the two other mag perks. Turns out it doesn't, but that's fine. You can farm for another drop, and this one is a 0/5. Absolute trash, but you take it to the table and would you look at that! Every slot has the exact perks you wanted! Sure, it's a little expensive now that you have to change every perk slot, but hey you no longer have to farm for Spare Rations. Giving every gun 3 random craftable choices in each slot would enable you to still craft your perfect gun while still allowing RNG to exist. I know this would help elevate issues with weapons that aren't craftable currently. I do think there is a place for crafted weapons as we have it now, but I think those should be reserved for super early game drops. I like that a new player has a quest line to give them decent weapons from the beginning, something that can grow with them as they move through the game. However I think that with this new system, they'll get weapons that will replace those beginner weapons and slowly creep them up to what Bungie deems late-gane weapons.
Crafting was really the final nail in the coffin for farming. Armour doesnt really need replacing once you have good sets and now I run almost exclusively crafted weapons or exotics as I dont need to spend hours to potentially get a better weapon. Instead I'm playing other games more (which isnt necessarily a bad thing) but as you mention Raiding with your clan can plummet after everyone gets their red borders. I havent even done a dungeon in a while aside from getting a solo flawless.
I would love an amazing Wilderflight, the Spire GL. It does more damage than a normal GL and can get Auto Loading with Frenzy which is great for Izanagi swap combos. However after already spending probably 5+ hours of farming the chicken and getting a 3-4 out of 5 roll I was tired of the dry streaks of not even getting a wilderflight for a couple runs. So I could farm for a weapon that would be way better or you could just use a random ALH grenade launcher you found or craft an explosive personality with it.
Crafting in my mind would supplement RNG but not eliminate it. My ideas are crafting would let us reroll a single column on a gun as much as we want with a cost associated, probably just glimmer. This lets us turn a natural drop 4/5 into a 5/5 without making it too free as you need the 4/5 to drop first. Another idea is just let us change the Barrel, Magazine and Masterwork columns and have the 2 perks locked so you need to get a weapon to drop with those 2 perks then you finish it off for the stats you like, more range, handling, reload, etc...
Heyo, hobbyist game dev/designer here. It’s been years since I’ve touched destiny, but I’d like to share some of my perspective on one aspect of this video.
If you’d like to know why it feels like crafted weapons don’t know what “tier” they belong too in the hierarchy, it is (my belief) in large part due to the game no longer having “tiers” of loot anymore at all. They may technically exist as commons, rares, and legendaries, but when shadowkeep released and “end game is the game” became a reality, everyone was set to max level. This in turn converts any need for commons and rares, into to solely be scrap fodder for lvling your legendaries. This means only two types of weapons matter to the player
Legendaries and exotics.
But when everyone rocks a legendary weapon, then the legendary tier becomes the average floor and the exotic gun becomes the exciting ceiling.
All of this too say crafted weapons can’t fall into a tier between them because Bungie doesn’t want something craftable to be better than exotics, but now that means that crafted weapons can only sit with the floor, the now average legendaries.
And how do we all feel as players when something is average? Well it isn’t that exciting is it? There’s probably far more to it than this in Destiny’s case but I wanted to share a small shred of my opinion on this particular part of your video. Great vid btw
I'd replace Enhanced Perks with the option to add additional perk selections on the weapons. They wouldn't outclass the RNG drops merely because they're crafted, but they'd keep them desirable to have more versatility on your favorite frame.
To encourage more Raid Completions, they ought to offer Ascendant Shards and Alloy and Enhancement Prisms. Add Mementos for each raid, the potential for particular weapon skins from Master Level Raids.
I love the craftable weapons. I’m a PVP main though and only play PVE to get the weapons to use against other players. My main concern though is the PVP sucks and I don’t wanna play for that reason lol. Came back to play Trials a few times and everyone is just putting supers on the objective to win games so I laughed at how bad it was and went back to better PVP FPS games.
What PvP fps games are you playing? I’ve been on a search for games to replace destiny with and haven’t been able to find a good PvP game.
@@Ace_Gunner just cycle between Destiny Cod Halo and Apex. Until something new comes out but I really enjoyed that finals beta and waiting to see how XDefiant plays out. Would play Destiny only but yeah games not fit right now.
@@scottparrott5674Halo Infinite is really solid right now, it's ironic that 343 actually made Halo Infinite a better game by listening to their community and implementing what the players wanted while at the same time bungie effed Destiny up by not listening to the players.
@@FrogOf4Chan Infinite is a lot better but it’s no surprise. They fired all the management and put the guy who saved the MCC in charge. Just a bit too late is all. He should’ve been in charge from the get go and everything Halo related from here on out I’m excited for if he’s running the show for sure.
@@scottparrott5674 Hell yeah! I bought MCC and have been loving replaying all my old Halo games.
I'm glad Infinite is on a good track and look forward to seeing more and more good things come from Halo Infinite.
Probably one of the core issues is that Bungie may not know how valuable or powerful some perks are until they are let to run free once they drop. Some look good numerically but are underused because of contrivances like Golden Tricorn, and some seem pretty average like Frenzy but its simplicity and high uptime make it very potent, which would make perk pools hard to tier as you mentioned, in turn handing over powerful weapons for free and making some endgame weapons aggressively mediocre.
On another note, I wouldn't be mad if the current raid weapon system was swapped: Adept versions being fully craftable and customizable once unlocked, and regular weapons being mostly RNG dependent, then requiring investment to cut the rough edges on magazine and barrel once you drop your favorite perks
They should've gave enhanced perks to rng drops instead of crafted weapons, that way, you can still benefit from doing an activity by gradually getting a pattern for that perfect roll you want, while simultaneously are rolling for a chance at a god tier rare drop with enhanced perks on it.
I haven't really heard anyone say this before but I think crafting should work more like how adept enhancing works. You can change 1 or maybe 2 of the perks on any weapon you have the pattern for but you can't fully craft one from scratch. So you still need to grind for your 3/5 or 4/5 but you can still use it as a 5/5 with enhanced perks. Then adept is just a layer on top of that with adept mods and maybe better base stats or smth.
I think being able to enhance almost any weapon drop will help alleviate these issues, which they said they are doing at some point (you wouldn't be able to change barrels/mags like raid adepts). I also think it's worth knowing that the original purpose of adepts was simply to be trophies, but players didn't see it that way. I would like to see something additional to enhanced raid adepts that make it a clear winner vs. crafted, but I'm not sure what that'd be. Good video :)
The idea of adepts being trophies is dumb and in my opinion adepts should be equal or slightly better then enhanced crafted weapons.
I enjoyed the RNGesus drops and the Black Armory forges, Menagerie, & wrathvorn hunt version of "Crafting". As for RNG drops you can't properly farm without having 'Prosperity (X)' on your ghost. Much like the drifter we should have the chance to augment our ghosts with such drop mods. Slot 1 for core stats. slot 2 for mag size, AE, or TA. Slot three for expanded perks in column 3 or 4. Slot 4 for prosperity or specific Masterwork.
Just an example of functions currently in games but repurposed with where they are added and applied.
Great video, I think you hit a lot of good points. Weapons grinds are essential for destiny. How long did one grind for the God roll black armory hand cannon, that 4/5 Igenous. Crafted weapons have their place, but what kept most going back for hours in the armory, just as in trials, is the chance that "the one" will eventually drop!
Couldn't agree more. As always love the video!
hope you’re having a good day, ascendant nomad
i go for all the red borders i can just to collect the patterns (except for raids because, well…. raids).
there are so few crafted guns i actually use, but i do like the deterministic outcome of time investment to get nice things.
weapon crafting is VERY respectful of my time.
I wish crafted weapons were modeled after the quest for nechrochasm.
Garunteed steady pattern progress (preferably from every drop), random extra progress (red borders), a small chance to instantly get what you want (a random roll godroll)
Enhanced perks were a mistake imo, but its a Pandora's box situation, and I think all weapons should be raid adept weapon style enhanceble to even the playing field between random rolls and crafted weapons, this makes the 5/5 godroll random drop meaningful again.
With these changes I think it would be possible to make every weapon craftable as long as the patterns needed is adjusted to keep the grind in the game without leaving players grinding for eternity (seriously bungie im tired of getting 2/5 bottom dollars, 7 gambit resets of engrams, all with the potential to roll with 3 perks per column, should be more than enough to get atleast a 4/5)
world drop and ritual weapons should be the only craftable weapons, because world drops are insanely rare, and rituals have insane amounts of perk options. i would love having the choices of 12 perks per column!
I remember being LL 400 (it was called Light Level once, and it didn't make a great impact gamewise, since the hardcap was 395) and wearing full raid-armor(with glows) going into the tower. It meant something because max level was only obtainable through raids and trails. And before that not being able to reach max level was what got me into raiding.
If enhanced perks were limited to master raids we'd get back that feeling. There is nothing like this in the game at the moment.
Crafted weapons are not the problem but they might be part of the solution. Maybe this is the only way to get some prestige back to this game.
As Nomad said, we need tiers before we get into something else. Great video, but where's the CAT!
I've been a strong believer of every gun being made craftable ever since D1. I've been hunting for an Osmosis/Demo Judgement for years now and after aprox 400 runs of prophecy I still haven't gotten the gun with those two perks together. I've given the time commitment I just copium grind Prophecy at this point because it's now sunk-cost fallacy. Having the gun be craftable would have meant I could have done something more fun in the same amount of time.
I think low tier weapons should be craftable since they mass produced by foundries. For high ends instead of crafting I would just drop a reroll item at the end of Grandmasters, Dungeons, Raids and Trials. It could reroll the whole weapon or it could also reroll the entire column you select. It brings back RNG, extends the life of the those activities. I'd put a guarantee drop chance for the first completion of a end game activity for the week. But really depends on the rarity and where you want place the source for such a powerful item. It would also make guns with multiple perks in a single column more valuable since it's another chance for that perk you want. That's how I would have done it.
im still missing a LARGE majority of red boarder weapons, as my clan doesnt raid that much.
and i feel a decent selection of non craftable weapons is still locked behind skill levels i can never reach(trials).
the only thing i would add is making enhanced perks drop by doing master content?
probably a bad thought to have but what if there was a limit to what weapons an individual can craft from each character but all characters have the potential to drop as craftable patterns? Like, for example, if you get a submission, you've got more chances of now also being able to craft a forbearance, but if you craft a forbearance, you lose out on the ability to have a cataclysmic. But if you dismantle your forbearance red border, you retain the possibility of getting the cataclysmic? This way you only need one pattern but it is harder to get because now your own choice and commitment to a weapon is at play but also if you ever feel like you regret crafting a submission, you dismantle it and go back into the raid. This way the adept also becomes relevant again but you can't enhance raid adepts anymore even though that's only been done for two raids so far.
What if it was flipped, you can't get enhanced perks on a craft able gun, but still get the perks you want. And random drops can get enhanced perks
I have weapons that I can craft but normally don’t due to lack of material or have other guns that I like which aren’t craftable. I can craft a ikelos smg but haven’t done it bc I have an attachment to the last one I focused at Rasputin after he sacrificed himself and it’s basically a God roll. I think of it as a parting gift from on of my favorite characters R.I.P Red❤️💔
Your idea for crafted weapons is pretty awesome actually!
I have alot of guns unlocked to be crafted but I place a higher value on my blessed/grinded rng guns especially for PvP.
But it's nice alternative for those with less time, don't want to grind and deal with too much rng, and for newer players.
But as a veteran player loot in general is kinda boring especially the seasonal guns that are basically there to be handed out, another lot just to add to the collection.
The games been out so long even with the sunsetting most stuff are similar or reissued with different perks for better or worse.
Just the excitement of chasing loot is kinda missing.
For the longevity of Destiny, if it has that, will Bungie make changes? Or is this it?
My issue with craftables is that they were meant to be bad luck protection, but now random rolls are bad luck protection...
The only issue I have with the crafting weapon experience is that it doesn't push me to do master content but beyond that I still enjoy the raids enough to do them even after I have the loot I want from them. I already have a crafted forbernce but I love vow so I'm still running legs for the hell of it. Same with root and so on but I don't see a need to do all the stuff for seals bc I'm just not that worried about the vanity side of titles and stuff
13:32 a KNOCKOUT SYSTEM would’ve been better RNG protection on rolls you’ve already received but in some cases you’ll still have the ability to get a god roll before.
Adept weapons should’ve all just had Alacrity(or perks that I call survival perks, ie eye of the storm etc) on top of the two other random perks. I think it should be a more narrow or smaller rng pool of perks like only 6 variants then the og legendary has like 12 variants max. At 12 you can finally craft any version of the weapon. Once crafted to get an adept you should have to reach a certain level with said crafted weapon.
Finally after level reached you get randomized bounties for these weapons that upon completion you get one of these 6 variants to drop. This gives us 18 total variations of one weapon, now with 4 perks two random 1 faction perk and 1 survival.
As someone that consistently never has fucking spoils I still value getting a god roll as half of the time they’re the only versions of the guns I’ll get since i don’t have the mats to get the red borders.
I think we have to remember that crafting is still a reasonably new system in the grand scheme of destiny 2's life or well whats left of it. There was an interview at some point in which an employee said the goal was to have all weapons be enhanceable which I personally think is a good shout. It will give reason to pursue things like Rose or world drops and even means you can skip the whole red border grind if you get a gun you like. I think it would be beneficial if we majorly reduce the materials needed to enhance a random role (i.e like you enhance an adept raid weapon) and slightly increase the materials or grind needed for patterns. Is this annoying? yes. Does it return dome excitement to rng rolls? Somewhat. It's not necessarily a solution for destiny 2's weapon problem in general (as in weapons not feeling the same or obsolete) but that problem has been here since destiny 1 and will be here forever.
I was just having this discussion and your video is now a valuable resource to reference people to if it ever comes up again.
If we could mix weapons (i.e. guns first) and abilities better, then i might be okay with crafting changes? Abilities (for me, obviously lmao) are pretty core to my personal style of gameplay. Weapon crafting was a lovely bonus to go hand in hand with things.
Id like to be able to still use my abilities effectively with my guns, and not have to pick between one or the other. Part of the magic of Destiny is still the mix of space magic with great weapons.
I see this sentiment a lot but even though crafting has some issues it’s leagues better than what we had before for most loot.
I never want to go back to a time where I have to “earn” the roll I’m chasing by spending hundreds of hours in an activity I don’t find fun.
And the thing is I have gotten those rolls on a lot of loot currently existing in the game. Like of all the crucible weapons I’ve turned in hundreds potentially thousands of engrams and have gotten very little to show for it
Here is how you keep the grind if that's what we want. No enhanced perks on crafted weapons. You can only add enhanced perks to weapons that drop after getting enough kills on them.
140 craftables?! So that's where my vault space is going.
Farming for Godrolls was a reality back in 2013-2015.
Crafting your Godroll is a dream in 2022-2024.
A perfect world where both co-exist is a far-sight that may never be.
I don't mind RNG when it isn't around 20 attempts (especially for something that requires other people like raids and certain dungeons), though I would rather have the ability to make weapons I know I would love to use.
And I don't want to wait for weeks to gather my dying fireteam or risk LFG when 7/10 of those groups are very... questionable.
When I'm the last one left in a dead team and no one else wants to play a raid/dungeon/activity, it'll only be me still hunting for a farmable/craftable weapon that may or may not matter at all.
My biggest issue is that some weapons with aesthetics and certain perks are not craftable but still need that farming.
I know that if weapons like Cold Comfort were craftable, very few (not everyone) would ever use other weapons again.
I just wish older weapons like the Europa weapons had this treatment since I love using those more than Crota weapons.
However, Crota weapons have the perks and the craftability. And while I agree the aesthetics are cool, not everyone wants guns with chitin or plates added to them.
We can't change the aesthetics because that would make spotting weapons harder in pvp (if that's still a complaint these days), so that leaves us with sticking with random rolls and craftables being as exclusive as they are now.
I'll change that opinion if anyone has a good reason otherwise.
This game has lost the ability to properly balance their weapons and armors, and to wish for something better would be as improbable as wishing for world peace. Not impossible, but not probable either.
All we can do is ride the waves and wait.
Because in the end, Bungie won't listen anymore.
You make fair points throughout your video, and I have my own solution to this. Adept weapons should have enhanced perks along with access to adept mods, unlike normal crafted weapons, if adept weapons had enhanced perks along with their mods then adepts would be more worth getting over normal crafted weapons in the current sandbox.
Conceptually, I tend to agree.
But in practice, I think the people concerned about the ridiculous levels of RNG to get what you want are right.
It seems like a hybrid of craft and RNG would be a compromise, and it could open up to all weapons:
Let's say you get a fresh roll on Bottom Dollar, it has Explosive Payload, but the rest is trash.
Get a second Bottom Dollar, even worse, so what you could then do is reroll your first Bottom Dollar, but use your second as a "Focused Lock", allowing you to keep that Explosive Payload, but random reroll everything else.
Your reroll just happened to end up 3/5 of a godroll, but you want that 5/5, so you collect 3 more Bottom Dollars to lock those 3 perks, and reroll the other two unlocked perks.
There would naturally be glimmer costs and junk (probably spoils for Raid weapons as well), but the most important part is using bad rolls for currency.
Is this involved? Yes.
But I think it would be better for engagement for any part of the game, especially playlist specific guns, and likewise it would provide a level of bad roll protection while you shoot for that 5/5.
Still needs RNG, requires engagement in the game for specific drops, but better respects the players investment, as they get to focus on what they want.
Plus, we no longer have a weird divide between craftable and non-craftable. (And I thank making a way for including switchable perks in 3rd and 4th columns would be included as well)
Feel like "crafting" would have been better if we had more of a "merging" system.
Not talking about the full on breaking, 2x EE sword and all that.
But feel like if you got one weapon with the trait you want in column 1 and the same weapon with the trait you want in column 2. After doing a few things, you can move the trait from one of the weapons to the other for the cost of one of the weapons and currency/materials.
No need for "enhanced traits" or bonuses.
Just allow someone to do a handful of strikes. Get 2 Positive Outlooks (good void auto rifle honestly). One with Destabilizing Rounds in column two, and Ambitious Assassin in column on. Smash them together and make a really good roll for any new players void build.
Hell, I still one that I've been using on my voidlock, since for the last 2 seasons anti-barrier auto rifle has been a thing.
I’ve gotten multiple 4/5 and 5/5 weapons but deleted them because I’ve said, verbatim “I can craft it later”
I'd like it if after you get a certain amount of drops of a weapon (not through focusing but rather activity completions) you get the pattern. After this you can put any of the major perks on the weapon then have to grind out the minor perks, master work, barrel, mag. Id like this for anything below the content tiers of Raids, Dungeons, GMs, and Trials. When you get to those end game activities it should be the same story but have a drastically higher threshold of drops. Enhanced perks would be removed because to me they're a very arbitrary advantage. Adepts would need to be active hell to craft, requiring a significant time commitment and resource commitment for the advantages they give, but this of course means they need to be stat monsters and unique along with intrinsic minor/major/boss spec in PVE. The non-adepts should be used to test out if its worth going balls to the wall for an adept. At the end of the day I personally enjoy d2 for the FPS mechanics so making guns the focus again isn't really an issue for me.
I'd love to make a joke about the war thunder sponsorship as a 6 year veteran of that game but ironically I think its in a better spot than d2 is right now. Im in the damn hangar as I write this comment lmao.
The last minute or so had me cracking up Nomad, you're awesome
In other games, I've found that encounter design goes a very long way toward forcing me to use certain weapons. Large, wide open arenas with tanky baddies need long-ranged options like snipers or rail guns. Cramped quarters with weaker baddies need decisive, close range shredders like shotties. Medium spaces with cover need ARs to stun lock enemies that would otherwise run and hide. I don't see many clear design philosophies when it comes to D2 maps. The main focus seems to be artwork.
So, whenever raid drops were pure RNG, once you got all the drops you didn't stop playing the raid?
I'd have loved it if it was no enhanced perk but the ability to add more perks in every Colom the further you level up the weapon.
The problem with weapons needing to be the focus of the gameplay in order to drive the grind for loot, is: weapons in Destiny largely feel same-y and uninspired anyway. Regardless of what gun you're using, it always feels like you're using one of only a handful preset archetypes with with a slightly different stat roll. The loot of Destiny often doesn't change the way you play the game in any substantial way; it's all about objectively better stats, and little-to-no uniqueness or variety of approach.
Either weapons need to be **actually** interesting and vastly unique from one another, or new abilities, augments, fragments, aspects, and the like need to be loot drops.
It doesn’t help that there’s barely any actual “new” weapons coming out. Mostly everything is just reskins and it all feels the same just with a slightly different model. And when something new does find its niche and becomes good, it gets promptly gutted(Glaives) and we have to return to the usual builds.
personally, I feel that a better crafting solution would have been something along the lines of Diablo 4s imprinting system. In D4, if you really need a specific legendary perk for a build, you can replace an items perk with a slightly worse version of the perk you actually want. Crafting in Destiny could have been a way for a player to get the godroll they want at the cost of it being slightly worse than the real one. This approach would have incentivized both getting the crafted versions and still have that reason to chase the rng drop
I agree what youre saying to a certain point.
Raid guns are already the best guns in the game, atleast one of the best. Ofc sometimes there is a gun like funnelweb that is just a world drop.
Enhanced i can agree on that maybe this can be better for adept weapons. But even so i think playing for all the red borders in a raid is already time consuming.
Maybe link the guaranteed red border in the raid to playing the wole raid instead of only the final boss?
Even though its 5 runs for 1 weapon. Remove maybe the extra redborde chest in a raid?
So its around 5 weeks for 1 weapon. Which is imo pretty long specially if you want more.
But you have to know 60-70% of the playerbase is not raiding cause of lack of friends or skill. Which means they can never have those good weapons even though they maybe playing the same amount of time and payed the same amount of money.
So linking everything to trials and raids and nightfalls, will also give a big dropoff in more casual players.
Also im playing for instance only 1 character. I play raids every week. But having to farm once a week, for a weapon roll, is just not fun. If you want to change raid weapons to not crafteable, they should be farmeable. Eventually you want to pkay with the guns aswell. Not only farm them.
I’m fine with crafted weapons. I think they give me a way to get the gun I want. If it doesn’t work as well as I thought, I can make adjustments. And there are still rng drops from trials and dungeons. I think it respects my time invested more than rng and I appreciate that. I only get to play 2 nights a week so I have to decide do I want to raid to try for this gun/redboarder or do I play crucible(what I really want to do). I know people that are still raiding 3 or four nights a week and they have everything from the raid. I don’t think redboarders really hurt replayability at all. I don’t think the addition of redboarders keeps people out. I would it draws more people in to get those guns because you know eventually you’ll be able to make the one you really want.
It's crazy they nerfed eager edge then made it's enhanced version, the unnerfed version (mostly, you can't double eager anymore)
I got an other half with swordmasters guard, eager edge and vorpal weapon as my 2nd drop from the chest in xurs treasure hoard. I never took it off, used it everywhere. When the dates update dropped, I crafted the other half immediately because I had red border other half's in my vault back when it was rng, and I saved them Incase my favorite heavy became craftable. The very day they released a craftable other half, they killed my RNG other half. The one I got lucky enough to get, I don't use anymore.
can't put the genie back in the bottle, but they really should have limited red borders to like seasonal weapons or something other than raid weapons. there's just too many of them and now they're expected to accompany every new raid.
I spent literal years looking for a specific nation of beasts. I have 96 last wish clears. Still had not gotten it. Then, I was able to craft it. Their old system was terrible imo and I like the crafting system.
As a literal game dev, I can say with 80% certainty that "Destiny" has at least 2 vowels in the word.
I prefer crafting. Idk why we need Enhanced Perks, but I really like that once I have a pattern, I HAVE it. I'm a filthy hoarder. You've probably forgotten some perk combinations exist on certain frames, but I have them all. Crafted weapons will always be in my collections though, so I don't need to hold on to anything that can be crafted.
Also, deterministic paths towards loot is much more satisfying than RNG to me. I hate wanting a specific role for a build, and never getting it because the numbers hate me.
I'll share a different pov and you did briefly talk about it in your solution segment, and recently fallout spoke about it in one of his recent videos.
The majority of population unfortunately are casuals. Whether they're long time casual or new, those craftable weapons are there for the casuals that used their exotic token on different weapons and missed previous seasons and or don't have raid weapons crafted. While to us veterans they're trash even with enhanced perks. To a new or newer player, it's enough to clear the content or they simply don't have anything better. I personally experienced this on a sherpa crota the other day. The guy didn't have a decent sword-legend of acrius- fusion. Basically anything for crota damage. He used sleeper because that was his best dps weapon he owned.
I do agree about your tier list and and adepts should be the most rewarding and only ones with enhanced perks. Then you run into 90% of people complaining about not having friends-clan to help them through gms-raids or go flawless. Those are the people that fund the majority of d2 unfortunately.
The issue imo comes from barrels, mag, and masterwork. They should just revamp that system and get rid of them, stop bloating perk pool, make it so you have your 2 regular perk slots and combine the barrel and mag stats into single perks and just make like 7 or 8 choices that can roll. Convert from 5/5 to 3/3, and just let players apply their own masterwork. There's no reason for masterwork to be rng tbh.
few things,
-Didn't find the video to be negative was quite well thought out constructive feedback.
-We already removed enhanced armor perks cus it nullified the rest of the loot, idk why we are goin through these growing pains again.
Probably just remove enhanced perks, and leave craftables to solve their initial intent of curbing RNG
-The suggested new tiers are cool, but unfortunately we would probably need to go through a new sunsetting which at this rate would probably frustrate more folks than it's worth.
-The suggested system does get a lil sketchy with enhanced perks on only adepts as it could be seen as rich get richer situation for trials loot, but otherwise making them "good not great" is fine
reminds me of that mouse utopia experiment
When they first announced crafting I said it should have been you get gun and you can pull a perk off of it and build your god roll. This would have been the better system and I dont know why bungie gave us the convoluted system we got
I actually don’t think I beef too much with the crafting system. In truth I think only about 8 weapons out of 140 are best in slot. And I find myself hunting for a lot of non-craftable weapons for unique purposes. I think the main issue is a lack of uniqueness. Weapons feel very similar, and have very similar shooting experiences. What if there was more diverse options with different uses that way there was more reason to use certain weapons
I think it was an issue to make end game loot craftable. It should have been only for world loot drops that have no direct acquisition method.
Of you think about it, a crafted weapon is just a static roll with extra steps