I need help the characters lost bug happened to me. I lost all my wespons and armor i have grinded hard for 😢I have 6000 hours in the game and need answers. Please help me spread this to the right people gamertag GoodinNumbers55
bruh i did grasp of avrice 2900 times for the godroll eyasluna i never got it so gave upbecuase in the 2 years it came out i have now crafted a somewhat good enough version of a 140 hc
Anytime I hear anyone say we need to adjust crafted weapons, I just think of Cammy’s video about it. Nothing should ever be done to bring back more rng until there are means of curbing that rng
I agree. I'd rather not have to farm months and months for a single gun for every gun. I'm still trying to get an envious assassin target lock circular logic to this day. Crafted weapons are a good way to mediate the horrible rng and I personally don't have an issue with them. I'd rather spend more time using the god roll I crafted than farming the god roll. The rng in this game can feel way too unforgiving
I see posts about how crafting in its current state is unhealthy for the game and can't help but feeling like dumping hours into iron banner or trials to only focus pure dogshit rolls is far worse than whatever grievances they may have with that system. Grinding for perfect weapon rolls from raids was potentially torturous in the past, and grinding for perfect dungeon rolls still is. It's worse yet when the activity is made to be tedious and not very fun.
@@Energumenus Bungie then proceeds to increase the amount of engrams needed for focusing. Crafting is definitely not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. They all forget about the pain of rng on every single gun. Especially when raids still are not farmable outside of the weekly raid. I'd much rather spend more time using the gun I crafted than farming for a roll I might not even get for a year
@@Energumenus I understand you completely. I reset Iron banner 4 times to get a roll which in the end I did not get. Such a waste of time, is incredible. Thanks god we have craftable. I would only agree on the Enchansed perk, I would give 1 perk only enchanced to adept weapons so to keep them in line but give the a purpose and remove it from the normal legendary.
@@Lightstation_Lol they would do that, more player engagement time(grinding your ass off) statistically means a higher likelihood of making an in-store purchase after all.
Personally, red borders & crafting actually got me into raiding because it guarantees that the limited time I invest will be rewarded in some way. Sure I could get the god-roll on my first chest without the need to craft it (In which case I would just use until I have the pattern so it's a win-win) but doing 1 raid a week to get the pattern feels like I'm actually working towards something and not just hoping it happens. It rewards constant/weekly raiding over endless grinding. As a bonus, once I'm finished with my weekly raid, I can focus on other things like story missions, vanguard/crucible or dungeons. I would also add that having a good world drop/seasonal activity drop once in a while doesn't hurt and motivates people to run certain activity in hopes of getting a good roll.
Exactly, I actually really like how it is lmao And the hype for getting a godroll, yeah it's not as much, idk about you guys but I get INSANELY hyped when I get red borders So the hype isn't gone it just shifted lmao
100% agree. Crafting got me to reinvest in the endgame. There's still an element of RNG (red border drops) but also that feeling of steady progression. Crafting makes me feel like my time and effort are being rewarded.
Yeah I agree on the time part, I remember it took me 6 hours to do VOG and all I got in the end was a crap stat helmet and awful weapons, waste of 6 hours of my life.
You can have that without the way crafting system killed the rest of the game (including adept weapons from raids). Everything you drop in the raid is crap, even the red border is just some "garbage" with the red border you want. We don't even level the weapons anymore. No more "wow, nice drop" and more like "damn, finally a red border Bungo, damn". And as Nomad said, as soon as people get their red borders, they stop doing the activity and now I need to look for another group instead of forcing the former to still go to the raid. The genre of the game (looter shooter) just diluted. They should at least remove the enhanced perks to keep the crafting as a RNG failsafe rather than the best thing around and only broken non-crafted weapons can put some fight.
I feel you on the “get the god roll on first try, but still do raid for red border progress” point. I got my Reconstruction Recombination Heritage in my first chest after Atraaks-1, and have been satisfied with it, and frankly, very proud of it (came with Smallbore Accurized and Handling, I was STOKED, especially considering the Spacewalk and Taniks was coming up) But by that same merit, I still want to get back into the Crypt, because I’m excited about getting a good roll crafted on a different weapon (namely Commemoration and Bequest), and learning how to do the mechanics better so I can do it more efficiently and effectively (I want that flawless shader SO BADLY)
Crafting is the best thing to ever happen in Destiny. I, in general, cannot get behind anyone wanting to reduce its effectiveness in the game. A lot of people look at crafting as a way to curb RNG, but does anyone remember when Joe Blackburn described it as the ultimate weapons experience? Being able to customize weapons to the exact specification that players want and being able to track how long they have had it? I think this is lost on people. I like crafted weapons having enhanced perks, but I do think that the gold border should have been granted by slotting the Enhanced Intrinsic only as that is the equivalent to a masterwork. The perks being enhanced is just a little extra on top. To solve the complaints of RNG apologists, just give the ability for random drops to be enhanced if they /do/ manage to get the god roll before the pattern is unlocked. In my opinion, adept weapons should have been phased out with weapon crafting as it is a very "Weapons 2.0" style system. Instead, Master raids could have granted cosmetics and mementos that would grant what would have been the adept shader for a weapon. Adept mods can also be phased out or rolled into the normal mod space with whatever balance is needed. Especially in PvE, the Spec mods are the only ones that typically matter. RE: Master raids, the reason why nobody plays them is because...they are not great. Especially with the new difficulty changes that make it impossible to become at-level. A lot of punishment for basically nothing. They are a slog, even more so than last year thanks to the changes. They are just not fun to play. RE: Deepsight resonance, I think Bungie could innovate and find additional ways of granting patterns. Instead of drops being the only way to get pattern progress, why not have other ways that grant progress or even have some vendor system to grant the pattern entirely after meeting certain objectives? People can still use their Deepsight Harmonizers to get patterns quicker, but the experience can be more than what we have now. And yes, I do hope that dungeon weapons also become craftable at some point. The RNG in this game sucks and grinding boss encounters for hours while getting potentially nothing to show for it is a massive waste of time, and people are tired of that. Whether that be due to burnout or because there are better games worth spending time on.
@@LtNoodle I think a lot of what I say will fall on deaf ears. People have been playing this game a lot longer than I have (I started August 2020) and have an idea of what they want. For most, that is chasing RNG and nostalgia. Does not matter if that means they waste more time in the game getting drops or that it is against their own best interest. They want the dopamine rush. The more interesting thing about all of this is that people who want RNG are still free to grind for their drops, even now. Nobody does that though...because they know it is waste of time. They want the game changed to that /everyone/ else has to also grind RNG drops. Seems rather selfish to me.
You and I are pretty much in agreement here, and I’m not someone who started when you did. I’ve been around since D1 beta. I’m one of those who sees it as an RNG mitigator (mainly because it is; it’s obviously good at that), but I also see it as an end game reward too. If I get it, I use it when I want and where I want. It’s great. I don’t know if adepts are worthy of being phased out, because they have their own interesting benefits and twists, but I get where you’re coming from. They’re a much older weapon classification, so they’re more prone to stagnation or normalization. Even D1 had them in some capacity. However, I think they have more long term discussions and plans going on. Earlier this year, I remember some weapon devs in podcast interviews talking about ways they could innovate on nightfall and Trials adepts, and they’ve already rolled out their plan on raid adepts for Root and Crota. I don’t think they’re done with them yet. However, I have doubts about dungeon guns becoming craftable. They’ve been basically using them for the sake of experimentation and versatility since Duality came out. Duality gave us our first 3 round burst linear (Stormchaser); Spire gave us our first 120 RPM legendary scout (Long Arm) and first sidearm with Desperado (Liminal Vigil); Ghosts gave us our first wave frame with Kill Clip (New Pacific Epitaph) and our first rapid fire glaive (Greasy Luck).
IMO, an "ideal" solution would be making crafting something you can do to any weapon, modifying random drops by changing perk selection after an investment of resources and/or experience. Sort of like vanilla destiny perk leveling but your weapon doesn't start out useless - you just get the ability to change a variety of perks with gameplay investment. Enhanced perks could be craftable on "anything," but pinnacle-tier drops would have a higher chance of dropping already enhanced with better perk pools.
Having an enhancement core (to get enhanced perks, once per core) that would drop from end game content would be the best solution for that problem imo.
Before crafting launched I imagined it working like a knockout system for perks. Each random drop you get unlocks those perks in the crafting menu. If you get the roll you want before all the perks you can stop.
Love you Nomad but your first point feels like conflating personal experience with community norms; my friends and I still raid every week as a social activity, whether we've got all of the loot or not, and maybe we aren't in the majority but raiders in general aren't the majority, so I'm not sure red borders are really hurting raid participation. Generally I don't disagree with your video but again these are points that apply to the all-the-time Destiny player, craftable weapons have been an inarguable boon for people who dip in and out and do want god rolls but honestly don't want to grind the game every day.
Hey that's fair, good on you and your friends for continuing to play. Me personally I'm seeing the lower concurrent player counts and the fact that my friends list has completely dried up to come to my conclusions. Of course everyone's got a different reality they live. I did say in the video that raid participation is likely a factor of other things, but red borders are not helping things
@@AscendantNomad Fairly casual but longtime player here (handful of titles, pre-Steam, couple thousand hours, occasional raid and dungeon, occasional GM). Red border chase increases the chances of me raiding; the thing keeping me from it is lack of regular groups/real life responsibilities. For content creators and hardcore players who can go grind it out with dedicated groups it's obviously different, but I don't have a single crafted raid weapon and it irks me. I like the crafting system; it's kept me more engaged in the seasonal stuff for sure, because I know there are chase weapons I'll be able to make my preferred version of.
The only problem with crafting is that Bungie has seemed to build the game around it. Meaning other forms of content/chasing has become sparse because red boarders are the only real goal outside of a title. Besides that… crafting isn’t a problem. Mindless grinding for RNG sometimes for YEARS to get a god role for a weapon in a video game is quite literally a mental illness… and I’m will for people to try and challenge that stance. Specifically in the raid example if I have time I’ll do it with all 3 characters every week and then once I have all the armor once a week red boarders and maybe finish up some challenges and it takes about the whole season to 100% ref boarders and title without grinding the raid to death. That seems like fair, worthwhile and health amount of play for an activity. I could go on a say I don’t play the dungeon any more than anything else to chase RNG and so on and so forth. Truth be told… most of your video caveats is that the game has all sorts of problems and basically crafting makes it feel amplified. Which is the truth… outside of mini boss or boss DPS (and there’s been times it’s not even true then) weapons don’t even matter.
Enhanced perks is the Pandora's box here. The current system of "triumphs = drop rate boost" is VERY good solution for RNG exotics. For playlist drops, multi perk columns needs to be GUARANTEED upon X number of vendor resets. That should also apply to adepts from GMs and Trials.
I've got a group of friends who play, about four of us consistently enough to try for aspirational content like GMs, and enough who play only casually from time to time that we can usually raid once a week or two. We mostly do VoG since that was the raid we trained the casual players on. VoG doesn't have crafted weapons, but by the time we got most of the group Mythoclast with catalyst (we did a handful of the drop rate increase challenges so this only took us ~10 runs or so), most of us were pretty done with VoG, the level of RNG required to find the exact perfect rolls of our favorite weapons was not equal to the grind. Considering this was without red borders, with a mix of both casuals and more grind-oriented players, I really don't think the issue is red borders at all. Conversely, the promise of red borders actually gets people in my group to log on more for raids like Kings Fall. Taken together I can't help but feel like raid red borders makes people more likely to raid in the first place, they are rewards that feel tangible enough to actually get people playing the game in the first place. I know my group's experience isn't the same as everyone's, but when I hear that people have every red border for every weapon for every raid, I can't help but feel like they are treating the game as a day job more than they should. Obviously there are people who kind of have to, this channel included, but I don't think that should be the focus for the devs making these game systems.
The biggest mistake was giving craftable weapons enhanced perks. I’ve gotten legit god roll weapons before I completed their patterns, then I dismantled that god roll for an even better version of the same weapon with enhanced perks.
I think their biggest issue was making the normal rolls useless. Enhance perks don't make the base perks useless. What makes normal weapons uses is that they don't contribute to anything if they don't have a red border. The better solution would be that you still gain levels for that weapon even if it's not crafted. That would encourage me to still use a good role that I get instead of being upset that it doesn't have a red border. Crafting was supposed to alleviate RNG eventually. Not make it irrelevant.
As one of the many people that don’t have many opportunities to raid, (my raids are very…. Very few and far between) I do appreciate the crafting system. I do recognize that there is an overall problem with the crafting system in relation to all of the points you have made. If there was someway to keep them around to where you can make them have average to above average roles so you can take them into raids and dungeons and get the BiS stuff there. I do agree with your point that comp PvP, trials, GM and raids should keep the enhanced perks. But as for someone like me as I’m sure like many others don’t get to taste raid or lighthouse gear all that much keeping the patterns to 5 I think is plenty fair. Those weapons can have the enhanced perks and they can just add the cherry on top to the gun so that way they don’t seem so overwhelming that you “have” to grind for them or you feel forced to in order to have a competitive edge. The ability to have adept mods and enhanced perks to make your chosen weapon 100% perfect should be “The” chase and having those things at the end or during trials and the raids and GMs seems like a good cherry to chase to get people to participate in those activities.
Exactly what I have been saying! Enhanced perks are the issue entirely. You could get the 1/1000 drop perfect roll, but it doesn’t matter because enhanced perks make it obsolete.
I'd replace Enhanced Perks with the option to add additional perk selections on the weapons. They wouldn't outclass the RNG drops merely because they're crafted, but they'd keep them desirable to have more versatility on your favorite frame. To encourage more Raid Completions, they ought to offer Ascendant Shards and Alloy and Enhancement Prisms. Add Mementos for each raid, the potential for particular weapon skins from Master Level Raids.
I think the simple solution is the master raid adept system, but apply it to not just adept but craftables in general. It puts the focus back on random rolls, but you can still level the weapon and use enhanced perks. And you can still use the crafting table to change the barrel and mag as you level it. Completely removes the red border grind, and if they give ALL adept weapons, the master raid treatment adept weapons will be worth chasing again. Just my 2 cents.
I just miss my pinnacle weapons. I know that they became too ubiquitous, but boy-o-boy do I miss my recluse, mountaintop, breakneck, 21% delirium, and python. These were great weapons that probably should have been the standard for something to grind for, not just sunset out of usability. I'll definitely still pull one out of collections every once and awhile just to have some fun
The reason I enjoy crafted weapons is simply that I am a casual player. I never enjoyed a heavy grind for a single gun, and most of my day is taken up by work. Knowing that the guns waiting in Destiny for me are simply ones I need to level up. That is the reason I love using crafted weapons.
I love the craftable weapons. I’m a PVP main though and only play PVE to get the weapons to use against other players. My main concern though is the PVP sucks and I don’t wanna play for that reason lol. Came back to play Trials a few times and everyone is just putting supers on the objective to win games so I laughed at how bad it was and went back to better PVP FPS games.
@@Ace_Gunner just cycle between Destiny Cod Halo and Apex. Until something new comes out but I really enjoyed that finals beta and waiting to see how XDefiant plays out. Would play Destiny only but yeah games not fit right now.
@@scottparrott5674Halo Infinite is really solid right now, it's ironic that 343 actually made Halo Infinite a better game by listening to their community and implementing what the players wanted while at the same time bungie effed Destiny up by not listening to the players.
@@FrogOf4Chan Infinite is a lot better but it’s no surprise. They fired all the management and put the guy who saved the MCC in charge. Just a bit too late is all. He should’ve been in charge from the get go and everything Halo related from here on out I’m excited for if he’s running the show for sure.
@@scottparrott5674 Hell yeah! I bought MCC and have been loving replaying all my old Halo games. I'm glad Infinite is on a good track and look forward to seeing more and more good things come from Halo Infinite.
I wish crafted weapons were modeled after the quest for nechrochasm. Garunteed steady pattern progress (preferably from every drop), random extra progress (red borders), a small chance to instantly get what you want (a random roll godroll) Enhanced perks were a mistake imo, but its a Pandora's box situation, and I think all weapons should be raid adept weapon style enhanceble to even the playing field between random rolls and crafted weapons, this makes the 5/5 godroll random drop meaningful again. With these changes I think it would be possible to make every weapon craftable as long as the patterns needed is adjusted to keep the grind in the game without leaving players grinding for eternity (seriously bungie im tired of getting 2/5 bottom dollars, 7 gambit resets of engrams, all with the potential to roll with 3 perks per column, should be more than enough to get atleast a 4/5)
Having a set number of raids to do in order to get the weapon I am chasing makes me more motivated to do a raid rather than endlessly and hopelessly chasing a gun that may never drop.
I still wish you could choose to steal a perk instead of power with infusion instead of crafting. There's been so many times that I've been one perk short of a roll I wanted, and then the next drop has that one perk and nothing else
Loot is not why you play games. Or at least it should not be. Fun and community is why you should play games. The very idea that you want to chase loot, or that you like the grind... That is not your idea. That is an insidious "inception" of an idea by the team of psychologists game studios hire to manipulate you - often called the "investment team." Stop centering LOOT in your thinking and commentary about gaming. Instead center FUN. Center COMMUNITY. I know some of you want to fight me about this - you genuinely believe the loot chase is why you play. I want to remind you of some of the greatest games of all time: HALO (1, 2, 3, Reach) Space Invaders Pac Man Super Mario Brothers People still play all of those - even at their respective highest levels of challenge. It is NOT about the loot. What is loot for in games? So you can curbstomp content you used to "fear."
I spent literal years looking for a specific nation of beasts. I have 96 last wish clears. Still had not gotten it. Then, I was able to craft it. Their old system was terrible imo and I like the crafting system.
Bungie will do all of this and then next season STREAMERS will make videos about why they dont like it now ... like LITERALLY they asked for crafting to balance on rng ..and now look
Yeah, sorry, I love your videos, but this just reads like an "elitist" who got mad about a casual killing them too many times in PvP with an enhanced perks crafted weapon. How many people actually get to experience top end content on a regular basis? Your idea basically shuts all but the most toxic 5% of the community out of the very best weapons in the game. The crafting system was literally intended (in part, along with reducing RNG fatigue) to avoid that from happening and so far, it's done a pretty dang good job of it. In a perfect game, sure, a tiered system might not be a bad idea, but this is Destiny. I think your starting point here is inherently flawed. TBH, I think crafting should be expanded to things like Trials. Get a flawed 7 win card? Turn it in for a red boarder of that weekends weapon. Then folks won't have the intense FOMO that the current reward system breeds. You won't have an adept, but you'd have a crafted version that at least is comparable.
Honestly.... I love crafting. I hate grinding, I'm playing D2 for the gameplay, not as a looter shooter. I'm raiding for fun. Grinding completely turns me off of playing. So craftables? Yeah they got me back into playing again and made me have the most fun I've had with the game. But I agree, enhanced perks should be random only. I personally don't care that much about them, and it'll make the looter shooter players happy so... where's the harm? And I personally am kinda meh on a higher focus on weapons? I love the current ability heavy sandbox, I love making builds that can clear a room and kill a boss without using a weapon, but I can see why a renewed focus on weapons could be beneficial too.
for the point of raid weapons I disagree in the fact that I get the Adepts over the craftables for RoN and CE. Despite me having every single raid weapon craftable from RoN and CE I refuse to craft them since the Adepts are always better
Very weak video with even weaker points. There should be guaranteed ways to get the exact weapons that you're grinding for. Bungie should be respecting your play time. RNG may be a reason to play an activity more, but that does NOT mean it's an argument in favor of RNG. You still have to play the content, quite a bit, to get the red boarders that you need. It's a solid solution between guaranteed loot and RNG.
To be frankly - only crafting keeps me still playing this game. To unlock all red borders from the raid you need a lot of time. And I think that it is enough for a one-time activity. RNG sucks, still dont get Vex after 50 completions.
Maybe if Bungie didn’t gatekeep god rolls I would agree. The amount of time and effort I’ve put into farming certain guns looking for specific roles that they know we want is absurd. I’m talking 2000 drops on certain guns without even the combination of the 2 perks that I want together but a bunch of combos of perks nobody would ever use
The problem is the game and the activities themselves. Used to love destiny, until i couldnt buy annual dlc and season, and finally noticed how lackluster most activities are. They're amazing for the first few days but lack any staying power and quickly get old.
The mere idea that there are people who wish for an "optimized" version of the hell that used to be "getting a godroll" is boggling. It's further boggling that people will die on that hill for the sake of comparison to the effort it takes to get said weapons, and yet, their only complaint is that it "decentivizes play for good weapon rolls". Yet if it weren't here, people would complain about how RNG dictates their lives and is a cruel force of nature. People, please just stop. Accept it. Move on. It's not that deep. Play the game, shoot the guns, and let it be what it is.
I burn to 50 engrams today to not get one roll of a gun from crucible in which I have a reset the rank four times which means I have multiple perks. 3 per column. I still didn’t get the gun I wanted. Imma craft every goddamn thing.
This makes me realize over the last couple seasons, I've dismantled 99% of everything I've acquired, to the point of dismantling without even looking at the perks. I know my catalog is full of weapons to be crafted whenever I feel like it so any drops that don't offer something spicy or unique is an insta trash. Sucks not having the connection to the loot rush this game used to have.
You‘d be doing the same even if there wasn’t any crafting. That’s just what you do in a looter shooter if you been playing for a while. You only keep the 5/5‘s.
@@SwoleakhulTheBlind Exactly, There's only so many ways to make the fairly mundane, non-exotic, guns of Destiny actually stand out and... well a fair few archetypes have already peaked. I highly doubt we'll see a breach loading GL that's better than Forbearance any time soon for example.
never doubt the power creep, two dmg perks in both columns and forbearance moves to the vault. magine chain reaction and rampage or something@@S3Cs4uN8
You know, the tiers proposed in this video could correspond to weapon qualities: Common (white) world drops, Uncommon (green) seasonal and core playlist weapons, Rare (blue) dungeons, raids, competitive and trials, and Legendary (Purple) adepts. That would add some functionality to an item system that exists and that players haven't interacted with for years.
Make every gun craftable at base. But my RNG chase would be perks/perk combos that can be slotted into every gun. Want raid perks on a world drop that feels perfect? Grind that raid for the perks and then slot them in. Some new fire perk drops in S23 but you love your Piece of Mind? Go nuts. But also I'd love a wipe mechanic to go with it. You never lose the gun but you would have to regrind perks or find new ones. I don't know where enhanced perks live in this but I suppose you'd have to spend a decent amount of crafting mats for enhancing.
I have alot of guns unlocked to be crafted but I place a higher value on my blessed/grinded rng guns especially for PvP. But it's nice alternative for those with less time, don't want to grind and deal with too much rng, and for newer players. But as a veteran player loot in general is kinda boring especially the seasonal guns that are basically there to be handed out, another lot just to add to the collection. The games been out so long even with the sunsetting most stuff are similar or reissued with different perks for better or worse. Just the excitement of chasing loot is kinda missing. For the longevity of Destiny, if it has that, will Bungie make changes? Or is this it?
I recently took a hard look at my vault and realized I use so few crafted weapons. I have them all and maybe 1/4 of them are “fun” or “useful” to use. I agree something needs to change. Like you, I don’t know what that would be.
Realistically, we need more ways of curbing the RNG from drops in general, or some method of helping you out with RNG, if youre going for your perfect roll, theres a lot of factors at play. I actually do like the way that they handled the adept enhanceable weapons from root of nightmares, where you can change barrel, mag, and masterwork, but your two main perks are set in stone. Even then though, getting perfect rolls is very much up to RNG, back in season of arrivals I was looking for an overflow + rampage False Promises, and it straight up took me like 100+ engram focuses to get it. Or looking for the god roll Memory Interdict for several months and finally getting the impulse + chain reaction roll only for it to not have prox nades. Having ways to curb RNG in your favor if you get unlucky would be extremely nice, and without that for random drops, crafting feels like the objectively superior option even disregarding enhanced perks. Ultimately in terms of game design, I think it really comes down to the return on player time and effort investment. I personally don't care to do Master raids because the Adept weapons are only marginally better than the regular raid weapons, and are uncraftable meaning you have to contend with getting your god roll. Why should I spend multiple hours and way more effort to clear Kings Fall on master with challenges for adept weapons, when I could take an hour or so to blast through normal mode for red borders to entirely avoid the RNG on the adepts? Why should I do legend difficulty seasonal activities when the drops they give aren't really any better than the normal ones? People were so excited for being able to spend cores and glimmer to level weapons because leveling weapons is a time investment that people will spend resources to bypass. Bypassing excessive time and effort investment is part of the reason why crafting is a problem, and alleviating the strains on that kind of investment by offering more generous or lenient returns on your time investment would likely do wonders for helping out non crafted weapons
Honestly I always hated the rng grind to the point where I just used whatever fell on the ground and was fun. Crafting made me somewhat care whats on it, but at the end of the day I just use what I find fun. I enjoy the current state of crafting because it feels more like my gun.
If it were up to me, I would go all-in in weapon crafting. The franchise is dying and the player base is done grinding at this point. And to be brutally honest, almost every weapon in the past 3 years has been a reskin of another weapon already in the game. My solution is this ; make everything craftable, from scratch. You choose the weapon archetype, then a weapon model corresponding for the archetype with a specific foundry, each foundry having slightly different base stats (each foundry having a different feel and soul). Then you get the choice between a few sights and sounds. Even the energy type. Then there's already a massive perk pool for each weapon type, just let the players go wild and combine whatever the want. Just look how people like buildcrafting, I'm sure they would love it.
I just finished watching your video and I think you made a fundamental flaw in your logic. You said that already having your weapons makes the game less replayable. Then it means the content is perhaps worse than you thought and were only addicted to loot. Players should engage with the content because it's fun, not because they're addicted.
I see this sentiment a lot but even though crafting has some issues it’s leagues better than what we had before for most loot. I never want to go back to a time where I have to “earn” the roll I’m chasing by spending hundreds of hours in an activity I don’t find fun.
And the thing is I have gotten those rolls on a lot of loot currently existing in the game. Like of all the crucible weapons I’ve turned in hundreds potentially thousands of engrams and have gotten very little to show for it
Gotta be honest, I completely disagree and I think this is one of the dumbest discussions in the community. for Context: I'm a vet of this game, my favorite handcannons in Trials are my GR Adept Exalted Truth and crafted Kept Confidence, my favorite PVE weapons rn are my GR Adept Burden of Guilt and crafted Insidious. >Adept/Enhanced mathematically do not make a SIGNIFICANT difference except in outliers. >Everyone hated rng, now everyone hates crafting...lol >Whats the point? Idk man, what's the 'point in playing at all. >"people want to Raid less": such a tiny % of D2 players are willing to to engage with the endgame because it's "too hard" that crafted raid loot is miles away from being the problem.
>"some crafted weapons are pointless" (this season LMG)-meaningless assertion given that we're always one sandbox change away from a forgotten archetype taking over. People weren't going sicko mode in Trials with 120s 6 months ago.
>Why are some weapons craftable and others not: You answered that yourself with the Raid thing. It makes raids less appealing to vets with all the loot, sure, but if NOTHING was rng then Destiny would genuinely have 0 chase.
>I sort of agree with your conclusion...except it returns me to my biggest gripe with most d2 players: they're f***ing chicken***t p****s about anything hard that doesn't give instant gratification.
I like the idea of tiered red borders with the highest tier "unlocking" the ability to craft with enhanced perks. The obvious downside is, in effect, the best weapons in the game will be reserved for the best players. Not sure how that can be mitigated. On Eleatic Principle, I did not like it at first but it ended up making me love rapid-fire frame LMGs. I like it with Heating Up + Golden Tricorn. Pairs nicely with Getaway Artist on my Warlock.
Videos like this where the message is that crafted weapons hurt the game are incredibly disappointing to see. Crafted weapons are not a problem and do not hurt the game. There is no problem with having a deterministic pathway to getting an item that you want. In fact, there should be more of them. The problem and issue is entirely the way they were implemented. Enhanced perks need to go, as they defeat the whole purpose of the crafting system by making them de facto better than other weapons. Frontloading the grind with red borders and then having the 5/5 being free from that point on was also an incredible mistake. The pursuit of a god roll can be preserved in a world with crafted weapons. Crafting a gun is a safety net for the guy that has 1000 looted runs without the thing they want, so that if they don't hit the 0.1% odds of getting the roll they want they can still get there one day. But if they do hit the odds, then they don't need to craft it. There are systems like this in dozens of other games that actually do it correctly, but Bungie just had to be quirky about it and has thoroughly ruined the concept for a community that doesn't know better. Videos that drive the message that crafting is bad don't help.
I did, and you ultimately agree with what I wrote. So why start the video with a timestamp calling crafted weapons the problem if you don't believe it?
Nah bro, rng hunting is such bullshit. I've spent way too much time to get a specific roll just to never get it. Crafted weapons highlight why rng rolls are so inferior
I spent 20 hours of nonstop farming only to get a 2/5 cold comfort. I've had much worse in dungeons previous. Crafting is just better. Enhanced perks are the problem.
@@oxsila I spent the entirety of this years festival of the lost trying to get a Horror story with demolitionist and headstone but never got it. If enhanced perks on craftables are a problem then give them multiple perks like how you can get guns with multiple perks from core playlists after resetting your ranks.
I personally think enhanced perks should just straight up be deleted from the game and crafting should stay. But non crafted versions of weapons of guns you can craft, those should allow multiple perks like you mentioned. That way, people who don't craft don't feel like their time is wasted coz someone has just crafted a god roll whilst they farm.@@mikufollower8564
When everything’s enhanced, nothing is. Crafting is a good way to alleviate rng in endgame activities so you can get that roll you want with a grind. The problem is once you’ve got everything from an activity crafted, there’s no point in going for those items anymore. Enhanced perks are also a problem, they make regular items worse than their crafted counterparts.
Heyo, hobbyist game dev/designer here. It’s been years since I’ve touched destiny, but I’d like to share some of my perspective on one aspect of this video. If you’d like to know why it feels like crafted weapons don’t know what “tier” they belong too in the hierarchy, it is (my belief) in large part due to the game no longer having “tiers” of loot anymore at all. They may technically exist as commons, rares, and legendaries, but when shadowkeep released and “end game is the game” became a reality, everyone was set to max level. This in turn converts any need for commons and rares, into to solely be scrap fodder for lvling your legendaries. This means only two types of weapons matter to the player Legendaries and exotics. But when everyone rocks a legendary weapon, then the legendary tier becomes the average floor and the exotic gun becomes the exciting ceiling. All of this too say crafted weapons can’t fall into a tier between them because Bungie doesn’t want something craftable to be better than exotics, but now that means that crafted weapons can only sit with the floor, the now average legendaries. And how do we all feel as players when something is average? Well it isn’t that exciting is it? There’s probably far more to it than this in Destiny’s case but I wanted to share a small shred of my opinion on this particular part of your video. Great vid btw
If we had the option to essentially "cannibalize" perks from other weapons we are not using at all that are not already crafted into a gun that is just a frame i.e. a 540 and put in High Impact Reserves and Headseeker for the last two perk slots, like a Grasp of Malok I had D1 that I took everywhere and only switched it out when I needed longer ranges. Other than that, it was far more bloodthirsty than the Hive from it's namesake. It would still require us to go hunting down guns in some way, but of course there would be rules like only pulse rife perks can be put into other pulse rifles for instance.
Crafting was really the final nail in the coffin for farming. Armour doesnt really need replacing once you have good sets and now I run almost exclusively crafted weapons or exotics as I dont need to spend hours to potentially get a better weapon. Instead I'm playing other games more (which isnt necessarily a bad thing) but as you mention Raiding with your clan can plummet after everyone gets their red borders. I havent even done a dungeon in a while aside from getting a solo flawless. I would love an amazing Wilderflight, the Spire GL. It does more damage than a normal GL and can get Auto Loading with Frenzy which is great for Izanagi swap combos. However after already spending probably 5+ hours of farming the chicken and getting a 3-4 out of 5 roll I was tired of the dry streaks of not even getting a wilderflight for a couple runs. So I could farm for a weapon that would be way better or you could just use a random ALH grenade launcher you found or craft an explosive personality with it. Crafting in my mind would supplement RNG but not eliminate it. My ideas are crafting would let us reroll a single column on a gun as much as we want with a cost associated, probably just glimmer. This lets us turn a natural drop 4/5 into a 5/5 without making it too free as you need the 4/5 to drop first. Another idea is just let us change the Barrel, Magazine and Masterwork columns and have the 2 perks locked so you need to get a weapon to drop with those 2 perks then you finish it off for the stats you like, more range, handling, reload, etc...
Crafting should be adding more acquired weapon rows to acquired weapons or change one perk to another acquired perk like The Division. The crafting system is flawed and ruins the looter part of the game
Meh... Rng bad people complain. Craftable weapons people complain. Too many weapons, complains, not enough weapons, complains, Bungie can't win. And it's honestly because they are stretching the game into a paper thin experience because they want more money for little effort. Destiny 2 is just pretty much done, no matter what they do.
i always felt like there too many achetypes of gun. Rapid-fire, Precision, adaptive, etc. I always go for what flinch more and what reload faster. That said, i don't care for crafted weapons anymore... way less, i should say. I crafted nothing from the last year. Also, I'm a solo player, i don't PvP, i don't raid. And the world drops are ridiculously rare.
I haven't really heard anyone say this before but I think crafting should work more like how adept enhancing works. You can change 1 or maybe 2 of the perks on any weapon you have the pattern for but you can't fully craft one from scratch. So you still need to grind for your 3/5 or 4/5 but you can still use it as a 5/5 with enhanced perks. Then adept is just a layer on top of that with adept mods and maybe better base stats or smth.
To this day it hurts my brain trying to wrap my head around the fact that Bungie absolutely refuses to fix the abysmal RNG rates, in a looter shooter of all games. While I appreciate the crafting system, it's a band-aid in the wound that is the awful RNG.
GOOD GOD YOUR BACKGROUND IS WHITE. Genuinely had to close my eyes when your facecam was on. Plz fix. Interesting video tho! When my eyes weren’t melting out of my skull.
I’m pretty sure I would have stopped playing Destiny 2 if crafting hadn’t been incorporated into the game. I want agency in my weapons. As a stark reminder of how crappy RNG-only weapons feel: I just focused 60 Iron Banner engrams for Pressurized Precision, hoping to roll a Moving Target & Hi-Impact Reserves. Did. Not. Get. Even. One with that roll. Nevermind the barrel, mag, and masterwork.
The only issue I'd have with Adepts being the only thing with enhanced perks is they also have enhanced stats elsewhere. The top players already dominate PvP and this would just widen that gap, especially with SBMM being near useless due to low player population.
Great video, I think you hit a lot of good points. Weapons grinds are essential for destiny. How long did one grind for the God roll black armory hand cannon, that 4/5 Igenous. Crafted weapons have their place, but what kept most going back for hours in the armory, just as in trials, is the chance that "the one" will eventually drop!
While I do agree that crafting is in a weird spot in the game, I disagree with a lot of the points made in this video. So I'll go over my thoughts for each chapter and do my best to be open minded and provide examples. Chapter 2: Red borders becoming the godroll is the whole point. Instead of waiting for the 5/5 godroll that potentially will never drop, you're now pursuing a series of drops that can be systematically guaranteed. Additionally, I doubt that red border drops are significantly harming a raid's population for 2 reasons: You finish all your patterns by the time you're starting to get bored with the raid. And having 2 guaranteed red border drops per week has incentivized many players to clear the raid more consistently. Chapter 3: Adept weapons are still valuable in the current meta, and this is largely due to adept mods (Adept Big Ones for PvE and adept stat mods for PvP). The increase to all stats upon masterworking is another mechanic that makes adept weapons strong. Also, world drop weapons are now unique enough to be desirable over crafted weapons (Irukandji, Combined Action, Nox Pernnial). Chapter 4: Crafted weapons having varying power isn't a bad thing and it's not even the crafted element that causes that gap in performance. If crafting were not in the game, Eramite would still be significantly better than Elatic Principle. Also, all seasonal weapons being craftable has less to do with introducing players to crafting and more to do with preserving seasonal weapons. With crafting we can now acquire any weapon from the Witch Queen seasons even though the content and it's drops have been removed from the game. Chapter 5: The important difference between Mercurial Overreach and Beloved is the element. The weapon element is crucial to making MOST builds in PvE and SOME builds in PvP. Chapter 6: Maybe this video was made right before S23 launched because the claim that weapons aren't central to the Destiny 2 experience no longer holds up. Over the past year, we've seen Bungie add massive damage increases to all sorts of weapons (exotic reworks, hand cannon damage buff, sniper rifle damage buff). Bungie has also been encouraging gunplay by re-working exotics to buff weapon damage (Skullfort, Foetracer, Battle Harmony), nerfing ability uptime and effectiveness (Throwing Hammer, Starfire Protocol, Devour), and adding new archetypes (257 RPM HC, 100 RPM Sidearm).
Conceptually, I tend to agree. But in practice, I think the people concerned about the ridiculous levels of RNG to get what you want are right. It seems like a hybrid of craft and RNG would be a compromise, and it could open up to all weapons: Let's say you get a fresh roll on Bottom Dollar, it has Explosive Payload, but the rest is trash. Get a second Bottom Dollar, even worse, so what you could then do is reroll your first Bottom Dollar, but use your second as a "Focused Lock", allowing you to keep that Explosive Payload, but random reroll everything else. Your reroll just happened to end up 3/5 of a godroll, but you want that 5/5, so you collect 3 more Bottom Dollars to lock those 3 perks, and reroll the other two unlocked perks. There would naturally be glimmer costs and junk (probably spoils for Raid weapons as well), but the most important part is using bad rolls for currency. Is this involved? Yes. But I think it would be better for engagement for any part of the game, especially playlist specific guns, and likewise it would provide a level of bad roll protection while you shoot for that 5/5. Still needs RNG, requires engagement in the game for specific drops, but better respects the players investment, as they get to focus on what they want. Plus, we no longer have a weird divide between craftable and non-craftable. (And I thank making a way for including switchable perks in 3rd and 4th columns would be included as well)
While I agree that crafting went a little too far, I kinda don't trust Bungie to just go back to random drops and have things be alright. Look at the number of people who went specifically for a demo+headstone Horror Story for the ENTIRETY of Festival of the Lost and never got it. Not even looking for a perfect god-roll, just looking for column 3 and 4 to be correct - and still didn't get it. In my opinion, that should never happen. If we want to go back to just pure RNG, we need ways to focus that RNG. I think that's why we got weapon crafting. Just giving people a way to get EXACTLY want they want is the simplest solution, so they went with it, even though it ended up having some pretty big drawbacks. One of which is enhanced perks. While I don't think most enhanced perks are bad, some enhanced perks are SO GOOD that it makes any gun that can't get an enhanced version of that perk dead in the water. For example, subsistence on shotguns only gives 1 round back on a kill, but ENHANCED subsistence gives 2 rounds back. The enhanced version of that perk on non auto-rifles and smg's is literally TWICE as good! I think if we were to get crafting 2.0, I think it should be more similar to Darktide's system. Have it apply to ALL weapons, but only have it let you modify an existing roll slightly, rather than crafting a weapon from scratch. That way there is still an incentive to hunt down a pretty good random roll, with say maybe 4/5 of the things having rolled right, and then you can use the crafting system to perfect it into the exact beast you want it to be.
As much as I like crafted weapons I do agree that they were a mistake. Not having a crafting-esque system in and of itself, but the way that it was implemented. No Destiny weapon should have been fully craftable imo. How do you then have a crafting system without crafting? The same way that The Division and Diablo 3 did it. I'll explain. We'll use Eyasluna as an example. No, it's not craftable. Doesn't matter. You run Grasp 3 times(once per character) and get 2 Eyasluna and both of them dropped with 1 craft charge(you can only do the following once per weapon). The first roll is a 3 out of 5 for what you were looking for. The other one? That's a 2 out of 5 with the rest being throwaway perks, but what's this? That 2 out of 5 has the missing Perk and Masterwork that you were looking for on your other one. You take them to the crafting table and pull up the 3 out of 5 on it. You get what looks like the pulldown menu for infusion, but instead it has all currently owned rolls for Eyasluna. You inspect the 2 out of 5 Eyasluna in that menu and when you scroll over the perks you get a prompt to transfer perk, for a price of course. You hold the button on the perk you want and a text box pops up, "Warning. This action will dismantle this weapon from your inventory! Do you still wish to continue?" Turns out that you do, so you continue. You get one more text box, " Transfer successful! Do you wish to transfer Masterwork as well?" Yes, you do. You do it and now you have your 5 out of 5 roll that you've been wanting. You cannot transfer perks from other weapons or weapon types because the weapon perk pools have to match up for this to be possible. The Masterwork can be transferred as well because they're all the same across the game. I think that THIS is how crafting in Destiny SHOULD have worked, but what do I know? I'm not a dev. As for Enhanced Perks. I say we make them the base level perks and get rid of the "Enhanced" title. We then do something else with Adepts to make them more meaningful.
Enhanced Perks are the only legitimate example of Bungie "overdelivering" on something to a detrimental degree. If Enhanced Perks didn't exist on craftables, then they would be equal in value to a lucky 5/5 godroll, and there would still be value in the weekly loot chase. Even better still, if only Raid Adepts or other such Adept weapons could get the Enhanced traits, that would have made them VERY desirable for weekly grinding. Bungie really shot themselves in the foot with Enhanced Perks from Day 1 of Witch Queen.
Why can't we accept the fact that gaming in general is growing stale, and no matter what any studio does to attract players, it'll be pointless as the attention span we now possess will never warrant spending a lot of time in a game, because it will get boring. Thus, the value proposition is key! Does the developer value the time you put in the game? Crafted weapons is Bungie's response to that question, and the answer is yes. They're not asking for you to raid ad nauseum because the EXPERIENCE is fun (it is, but only when you are with cool people)... they're asking you to raid to get loot. The loot pool is (1) new armor, (2) the exotic and (3) red border weapons. Then you take those weapons, craft them, and then play PvP and Gambit and master the builds you can with the rewards you've received. That is an amazing value proposition, and shows you that Bungie values your time (as you mention, Nomad, at 4:17 in this video) Enough said...all this talk about how crafting weapons ruined the chase aren't true....because no one liked the original chase!! It was boring. It's boring now to spend 40-50 hours a week in a single game. Today's gamers like variety. Today's gamers like value. Today's gamers don't think content creators should do anything other than build crafting or showing us hidden things they find in games or explaining lore or being a master assassin in PvP. So, my advice to the CCs out there...do that.
13:32 a KNOCKOUT SYSTEM would’ve been better RNG protection on rolls you’ve already received but in some cases you’ll still have the ability to get a god roll before. Adept weapons should’ve all just had Alacrity(or perks that I call survival perks, ie eye of the storm etc) on top of the two other random perks. I think it should be a more narrow or smaller rng pool of perks like only 6 variants then the og legendary has like 12 variants max. At 12 you can finally craft any version of the weapon. Once crafted to get an adept you should have to reach a certain level with said crafted weapon. Finally after level reached you get randomized bounties for these weapons that upon completion you get one of these 6 variants to drop. This gives us 18 total variations of one weapon, now with 4 perks two random 1 faction perk and 1 survival.
Farming for Godrolls was a reality back in 2013-2015. Crafting your Godroll is a dream in 2022-2024. A perfect world where both co-exist is a far-sight that may never be. I don't mind RNG when it isn't around 20 attempts (especially for something that requires other people like raids and certain dungeons), though I would rather have the ability to make weapons I know I would love to use. And I don't want to wait for weeks to gather my dying fireteam or risk LFG when 7/10 of those groups are very... questionable. When I'm the last one left in a dead team and no one else wants to play a raid/dungeon/activity, it'll only be me still hunting for a farmable/craftable weapon that may or may not matter at all. My biggest issue is that some weapons with aesthetics and certain perks are not craftable but still need that farming. I know that if weapons like Cold Comfort were craftable, very few (not everyone) would ever use other weapons again. I just wish older weapons like the Europa weapons had this treatment since I love using those more than Crota weapons. However, Crota weapons have the perks and the craftability. And while I agree the aesthetics are cool, not everyone wants guns with chitin or plates added to them. We can't change the aesthetics because that would make spotting weapons harder in pvp (if that's still a complaint these days), so that leaves us with sticking with random rolls and craftables being as exclusive as they are now. I'll change that opinion if anyone has a good reason otherwise. This game has lost the ability to properly balance their weapons and armors, and to wish for something better would be as improbable as wishing for world peace. Not impossible, but not probable either. All we can do is ride the waves and wait. Because in the end, Bungie won't listen anymore.
For a long time I've felt like loot is the absolute wrong focus for this game. Why do people play Destiny? It's not for the story (lol). It's not for the grind and the "aspirational content". It's not for the balanced hardcore uber-competitive esports whatever. Other games do all this way better. It's the gameplay mechanics - the shooting, the atmosphere, the space magic. Outside of exotics, the loot is all the same. Blah blah god roll blah blah blah. All that stuff is psychological (unless you're the very tip-top of the skill pyramid I suppose). What they need to focus on is gameplay. Think of how many games over the decades that people played over and over and over... just for the fun of it. Your clan stopped raiding once everybody got all the patterns. That shows that the fun of playing the game isn't how fun it is to play the game. It shows that it was only about the loot, which, at the end of the day, is just another game of "make number go bigger". It's Space Magic Cookie Clicker and the gameplay is a means to an end. As for PVP... I've been saying for years that the crucible needs a mode where everybody starts with the exact same loadout and build. Halo style. Nobody can bitch about something if everybody spawns with one.
I mean I haven’t played in 3 weeks. It’s weird, but I need this break. D2 is still my fav game of all time but….. I just can’t bring myself to play. I’m not having fun, I don’t have anything worth chasing to me. I’m having 10x more fun playing other games till I’m ready to come back. This video, right here, is a big reason as to why my break continues.
I would have agreed it had legit challenge on release, but it's dummy easy now. Shuro chi bug for heavies, or just pay glim to level it up. Raid and season patters are a free 1/week. Season pass gives the pattern-ifiers. And once you get your pattern? Never go back to the activity again. I can just change the 4th column if I want something new. And fk adepts. Spending 1500 spoils for a fraction of a % better mod.
Bungie Not Long After FTP Goes Live: Were sunsetting certain things because its all players use from season/season, expansion/expansion Bungie Upon Release of Crafted Weapons: Here's crap you'll end up using from season/season, expansion/expansion because hey, you can craft it and tweak it as we decide to nerf/buff certain perks; the only time you'll get something new is when it has different perks that your current gear
Was the old way better: Absolutely not - that would be hard stop playing the game for me. I was barely playing for enjoyment before craftables. It's why I'm around more. Should endgame weapons be objectively superior: If this was an MMO RPG and all we had to worry about is stats, yes. I do beleive that they should edge out their normal compatriots in all cases. Rather than eliminating enhanced rolls, however, they should, by default, function slightly better than what you can craft. Every perk on a pinnacle weapon should just be better than an enhanced by default (even if that means nerfing the current enhanced to compensate.) This stops taking away from the persuit in crafting to go for the enhanced perks while keeping Adepts on top. Make all perks on Adepts just better. Period. But just for Adepts. The rest is fine. Would the shift to Weapons First Gameplay kill the fun of D2? Yes. Hand's down. While the gunfeel of this game is amazing, it's not the sole draw of this game for the majority of people, if it was there woulden't be such an uproar everytime a favorited ability based exotic got nerfed. I feel this is an imagined problem people who prefer gunplay generated for the sake of their own argument. Weapons are a problem because weapon designs have bloated. I hate to say it but Sunsetting was the correct decision even if it was vastly unopopular. Think MMORPGs - Item levels are sunsetting in essence because as levels increase, 'better' gear comes around. This cycles out systems and allows for reinvention of items and perks and ages out problem stats, perks, weapons and items reliably enough to keep the game healthy. Because we're not doing it here, weapons continue to get less and less worthwhile as the breath of them bloats out. Keep a standard set of baseline, lower performance weapons that never expire that cover decently roles, then create cycling weapons that can be persued each year for a year. Once we cycle out the problematic weapons in our systems, we can reintroduce them in a method that encourages more gunplay, or more synergistic play, depending on the demands. I'd prefer weapons that are focused more towards the tasks they're doing (PvP weapons for PvP, Raid Weapons for Raiding, Gambit, etc.) Right now there's just too much cross usage cases and that too is killing our weapon variety health.
I am not really against legendary crafted weapons, but i am COMPLETELY against exotic weapon crafting. It takes away from them being special. Especially if it took awhile for a drop. (Still hoping to put shaders on exotic weapons, is been almost a decade now) Legendary crafting is not so much of a nuisance, if world drops happened more often especially from those with a multitude of perks. Chasing that 5 out of 5 would feel more rewarding. Instead of amassing a plethora of engrams for focusing.
I prefer crafting. Idk why we need Enhanced Perks, but I really like that once I have a pattern, I HAVE it. I'm a filthy hoarder. You've probably forgotten some perk combinations exist on certain frames, but I have them all. Crafted weapons will always be in my collections though, so I don't need to hold on to anything that can be crafted. Also, deterministic paths towards loot is much more satisfying than RNG to me. I hate wanting a specific role for a build, and never getting it because the numbers hate me.
Man im not one to comment before watching a vid ..bur as soon as someone talks about crafting weapons ans it being"bad" for the game i dont even bother ...leaving it up to rng to decide who gets the perfect god roll and whi doesnt is silly to me .....a broken gun is a broken gun ... reguardless if u got it rng or u crafted it ...
My ideal crafting system is every weapon being slightly adjustable at the crafting table. Every column has 3 random craftable options. Say a 4/5 Spare Rations drops, with it's mag perk being Light Mag. You can take it to the crafting table and see the two other mag perks. Turns out it doesn't, but that's fine. You can farm for another drop, and this one is a 0/5. Absolute trash, but you take it to the table and would you look at that! Every slot has the exact perks you wanted! Sure, it's a little expensive now that you have to change every perk slot, but hey you no longer have to farm for Spare Rations. Giving every gun 3 random craftable choices in each slot would enable you to still craft your perfect gun while still allowing RNG to exist. I know this would help elevate issues with weapons that aren't craftable currently. I do think there is a place for crafted weapons as we have it now, but I think those should be reserved for super early game drops. I like that a new player has a quest line to give them decent weapons from the beginning, something that can grow with them as they move through the game. However I think that with this new system, they'll get weapons that will replace those beginner weapons and slowly creep them up to what Bungie deems late-gane weapons.
Feel like "crafting" would have been better if we had more of a "merging" system. Not talking about the full on breaking, 2x EE sword and all that. But feel like if you got one weapon with the trait you want in column 1 and the same weapon with the trait you want in column 2. After doing a few things, you can move the trait from one of the weapons to the other for the cost of one of the weapons and currency/materials. No need for "enhanced traits" or bonuses. Just allow someone to do a handful of strikes. Get 2 Positive Outlooks (good void auto rifle honestly). One with Destabilizing Rounds in column two, and Ambitious Assassin in column on. Smash them together and make a really good roll for any new players void build. Hell, I still one that I've been using on my voidlock, since for the last 2 seasons anti-barrier auto rifle has been a thing.
Imo, crafting should live just been grinding random rolls of a gun you want then combining them into 1 gun, keeping mag, mw and perks you want to keep. So many times, I’m literally 1 stupid perk or a reload mw away from a 5/5. But with current crafting, I’m personally ok with it. Does save time, but honestly my grind for the patterns has gone down. Some guns just aren’t worth crafting or trials and the GMs have the guns I want. Personally the dungeons have been the most annoying thing in the game to farm 5/5 guns, but at least trials keeps that replayability for me. I wouldn’t really mind if they reworked crafting and removing enhanced perks, but I guess we’ll see Bungie ends up doing in the future
You cant fix Destiny 2 its too far gone..its an arcade shooter always was and always will be. It will quite possibly limp on until D3. If and thats if we ever get the game... As for higher difficulty level apologies but thats just ludacris GM NF are already at 1840...so your plan is to artificially inflate content further locking the larger community out from decent seasonal weapons. The game is now a hamster wheel and its not going to change Thats not a fix thats a death note 🤦
I've been a strong believer of every gun being made craftable ever since D1. I've been hunting for an Osmosis/Demo Judgement for years now and after aprox 400 runs of prophecy I still haven't gotten the gun with those two perks together. I've given the time commitment I just copium grind Prophecy at this point because it's now sunk-cost fallacy. Having the gun be craftable would have meant I could have done something more fun in the same amount of time.
The more people do "not destiny", the more having "good enough" guns for PVP becomes valuable. Dust Rock Blues was an unobtainable gun for me simply due to the hours i put in never dropping a decent roll, and it felt bad to die in a shotgun duel simply because he had a gun with a farther oneshot distance. This game needs a balancing patch so bad, because things like imperial decree outclasses astral horizon, so there's no incentive to grind for astral adept. Should there be crafted trials weapons? I'm thinking crafted raid weapons may be a mistake, but when i work a 9-5 making this game a part time job starts to feel tedious. Somewhere D2 lost the "Fun" for doing "chores" to get weapon drops. Am i wrong for feeling like the sense of wonder is gone, and just wanting the grind to end? Warframe i can spend 15 hours on the weekend grinding stuff and feel like i'm making progress, because my weapons get stronger, i get new warframes and weapons, and things i can sell later. I do that in Destiny, and i get maybe 1 or two guns that are half decent? TBH, i think that weapon crafting should have been "Reforging" our existing weapons, to eliminate some RNG (which i hear you can do on Raid Adepts, but i've not taken the time to learn anything about that system, i've not done master raids outside of VoG). Instead, we got a massive timesink that was not enjoyable to play, and that seems to be the pattern, time sink after time sink. And i no longer know if i want to stay on this train, not after buying expansions on two platforms for multiple years, and still seeing the grind.
I honestly hate the crafting system. I find mindlessly grinding pve for red borders to be far more excruciating than RNG ever was. Out of all the craftable weapons, I’ve bothered to make about 3 that are actually useful/fun for me, and I barely use them. My vault is permanently at 499 guns, and I have so many godrolls/goodrolls at this point that I’ve never even used once that it’s absolutely ridiculous. I’ve given up hunting for weapons altogether, and I’ve just been using whatever the hell sounds fun at the given moment. It’s made me enjoy the game a lot more.
I still think Crafting launched 1/4 baked. I still think Crafting guns should be about extracting perks off of random rolls of a given gun then leveling up the perks to be enhanced via kills while equipped. Or something like that anyway I'm not a dev, but the whole concept behind current crafting to me is intrinsically flawed.
I think that enhanced perks should've been exclusive to random rolls rather than crafted weapons. I see crafting working best as a way to get *almost* what you want, but if you want to min max you gotta grind RNG. That's just my opinion though, so it's objectively correct.
I haven't even crafted a handful of weapons. I can get close to a God role weapon and be happy with it. If I get a crafted weapon cool, it's not a big deal for me personally!!
There are way too many underlining issues with the game to fix this particular issue in isolation. For instance, another fact of the matter is, no matter how strong or powerful crafted weapons come in, I'm more than likely equipping an Exotic and building around it instead of the complimentary weapons. And if I need a workhorse weapon, an Exotic Primary is doing 40% more damage to a red bar than a Legendary. I think we're too deep into crafted weapons to reverse a lot of the features it introduced. The game just needs to be better designed around it. 1. Every crafted weapon should require 100 of the same weapon to break down to craft. Red borders are boosters that add 10 to that progress bar. 2. More weapons should be craftable, but their lootpools need to be heavily reduced to 4 perks by 4 perks. That way, each weapon has a narrow lane it operates at, but it's unique. This is so Bungie can create more loot that may overlap archetypes, but doesn't have any of the same overlapping perk tables. 3. Adept weapons need to be fully craftable, just a higher investment to achieve (point number 1 helps this out a lot). 4. Deepsight Harmonizers need to be earnable from several end game activities, adding further incentives to playing those end game activities even if you have all of the loot from said activity. Drop rates can be fairly low, and the activities that carry it can rotate week to week. 5. There should be no need to level up crafted weapons before using it. You should be able to choose whatever perks you want as soon as you craft it. This will allow us to unlock crafted weapons, but also clear out vault space for the weapons we use all the time, and craft a weapon for an activity if it's outside our usual loot on hand. The only additional investment should be Enhanced Perks. That way, there's a reason to keeping certain ones auto-crafted, if it happens to be one of our favorites.
I remember being LL 400 (it was called Light Level once, and it didn't make a great impact gamewise, since the hardcap was 395) and wearing full raid-armor(with glows) going into the tower. It meant something because max level was only obtainable through raids and trails. And before that not being able to reach max level was what got me into raiding. If enhanced perks were limited to master raids we'd get back that feeling. There is nothing like this in the game at the moment. Crafted weapons are not the problem but they might be part of the solution. Maybe this is the only way to get some prestige back to this game. As Nomad said, we need tiers before we get into something else. Great video, but where's the CAT!
The pain point that crafting was supposed to fix (rng hell) had a much simpler solution that I had been advocating for a long time; give us more damn loot per activity. Destiny 2 is an unusually stingy game compared to its contemporaries. Crafting itself would also get an overhaul; retain full crafting as we have it now for exotics, and "reduced" crafting for everything else, and add armor to the mix. Instead of fabricating weapons or armor ex nihilo, it lets you modify what you already have, allowing you to allocate armor stats as you please, restricted by the BST of the piece in question, or swapping out 1 barrel/mag, 1 perk, or your masterwork on your weapons. This way you still have a reason to chase good rolls, because it gives you a better floor for your crafting.
When you got that perfect roll and barely anyone else in the game had it, it made you feel special. It made it meaningful and valuable. If you've seen Across the Spider-Verse, Miles says you can have your cake and eat it if you bring two cakes. That only works in fiction. You can't. I am not telling you that you can't. This desolate cruel world is. It's vanilla destiny 2 with static rolls, but with extra steps. The chase and the rarity kept you coming back to grind for it because it reflected real life with consequences and meaning. Life's not fair, but then again this game isn't your life.
This is what happens when players want to turn Destiny2 into every other game. It's not an MMORPG and was never intended to be. It's a story driven game with PvP i.e. Crucible and Gambit mixed in. Bungie constantly trying to make it easier for newer players is fine, but how many resources are being wasted taking away from what made Destiny great. Turning it into just another MMO instead of improving the core parts of the game is a much bigger issue. What have been the 2 biggest complaints? No new PvP maps and the story has been mediocre at best. Bungie needs to get back to basics and stop trying to be all things to everyone.
Probably one of the core issues is that Bungie may not know how valuable or powerful some perks are until they are let to run free once they drop. Some look good numerically but are underused because of contrivances like Golden Tricorn, and some seem pretty average like Frenzy but its simplicity and high uptime make it very potent, which would make perk pools hard to tier as you mentioned, in turn handing over powerful weapons for free and making some endgame weapons aggressively mediocre. On another note, I wouldn't be mad if the current raid weapon system was swapped: Adept versions being fully craftable and customizable once unlocked, and regular weapons being mostly RNG dependent, then requiring investment to cut the rough edges on magazine and barrel once you drop your favorite perks
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bruh i did grasp of avrice 2900 times for the godroll eyasluna i never got it so gave upbecuase in the 2 years it came out i have now crafted a somewhat good enough version of a 140 hc
I love my Eliatic Principle 😢
Anytime I hear anyone say we need to adjust crafted weapons, I just think of Cammy’s video about it. Nothing should ever be done to bring back more rng until there are means of curbing that rng
I agree. I'd rather not have to farm months and months for a single gun for every gun. I'm still trying to get an envious assassin target lock circular logic to this day. Crafted weapons are a good way to mediate the horrible rng and I personally don't have an issue with them.
I'd rather spend more time using the god roll I crafted than farming the god roll. The rng in this game can feel way too unforgiving
I see posts about how crafting in its current state is unhealthy for the game and can't help but feeling like dumping hours into iron banner or trials to only focus pure dogshit rolls is far worse than whatever grievances they may have with that system. Grinding for perfect weapon rolls from raids was potentially torturous in the past, and grinding for perfect dungeon rolls still is. It's worse yet when the activity is made to be tedious and not very fun.
@@Energumenus Bungie then proceeds to increase the amount of engrams needed for focusing.
Crafting is definitely not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. They all forget about the pain of rng on every single gun. Especially when raids still are not farmable outside of the weekly raid. I'd much rather spend more time using the gun I crafted than farming for a roll I might not even get for a year
@@Energumenus I understand you completely. I reset Iron banner 4 times to get a roll which in the end I did not get. Such a waste of time, is incredible. Thanks god we have craftable. I would only agree on the Enchansed perk, I would give 1 perk only enchanced to adept weapons so to keep them in line but give the a purpose and remove it from the normal legendary.
@@Lightstation_Lol they would do that, more player engagement time(grinding your ass off) statistically means a higher likelihood of making an in-store purchase after all.
Personally, red borders & crafting actually got me into raiding because it guarantees that the limited time I invest will be rewarded in some way. Sure I could get the god-roll on my first chest without the need to craft it (In which case I would just use until I have the pattern so it's a win-win) but doing 1 raid a week to get the pattern feels like I'm actually working towards something and not just hoping it happens.
It rewards constant/weekly raiding over endless grinding. As a bonus, once I'm finished with my weekly raid, I can focus on other things like story missions, vanguard/crucible or dungeons.
I would also add that having a good world drop/seasonal activity drop once in a while doesn't hurt and motivates people to run certain activity in hopes of getting a good roll.
Exactly, I actually really like how it is lmao
And the hype for getting a godroll, yeah it's not as much, idk about you guys but I get INSANELY hyped when I get red borders
So the hype isn't gone it just shifted lmao
100% agree. Crafting got me to reinvest in the endgame. There's still an element of RNG (red border drops) but also that feeling of steady progression. Crafting makes me feel like my time and effort are being rewarded.
Yeah I agree on the time part, I remember it took me 6 hours to do VOG and all I got in the end was a crap stat helmet and awful weapons, waste of 6 hours of my life.
You can have that without the way crafting system killed the rest of the game (including adept weapons from raids).
Everything you drop in the raid is crap, even the red border is just some "garbage" with the red border you want. We don't even level the weapons anymore. No more "wow, nice drop" and more like "damn, finally a red border Bungo, damn".
And as Nomad said, as soon as people get their red borders, they stop doing the activity and now I need to look for another group instead of forcing the former to still go to the raid.
The genre of the game (looter shooter) just diluted. They should at least remove the enhanced perks to keep the crafting as a RNG failsafe rather than the best thing around and only broken non-crafted weapons can put some fight.
I feel you on the “get the god roll on first try, but still do raid for red border progress” point. I got my Reconstruction Recombination Heritage in my first chest after Atraaks-1, and have been satisfied with it, and frankly, very proud of it (came with Smallbore Accurized and Handling, I was STOKED, especially considering the Spacewalk and Taniks was coming up)
But by that same merit, I still want to get back into the Crypt, because I’m excited about getting a good roll crafted on a different weapon (namely Commemoration and Bequest), and learning how to do the mechanics better so I can do it more efficiently and effectively (I want that flawless shader SO BADLY)
Crafting is the best thing to ever happen in Destiny. I, in general, cannot get behind anyone wanting to reduce its effectiveness in the game.
A lot of people look at crafting as a way to curb RNG, but does anyone remember when Joe Blackburn described it as the ultimate weapons experience? Being able to customize weapons to the exact specification that players want and being able to track how long they have had it? I think this is lost on people.
I like crafted weapons having enhanced perks, but I do think that the gold border should have been granted by slotting the Enhanced Intrinsic only as that is the equivalent to a masterwork. The perks being enhanced is just a little extra on top. To solve the complaints of RNG apologists, just give the ability for random drops to be enhanced if they /do/ manage to get the god roll before the pattern is unlocked.
In my opinion, adept weapons should have been phased out with weapon crafting as it is a very "Weapons 2.0" style system. Instead, Master raids could have granted cosmetics and mementos that would grant what would have been the adept shader for a weapon. Adept mods can also be phased out or rolled into the normal mod space with whatever balance is needed. Especially in PvE, the Spec mods are the only ones that typically matter.
RE: Master raids, the reason why nobody plays them is because...they are not great. Especially with the new difficulty changes that make it impossible to become at-level. A lot of punishment for basically nothing. They are a slog, even more so than last year thanks to the changes. They are just not fun to play.
RE: Deepsight resonance, I think Bungie could innovate and find additional ways of granting patterns. Instead of drops being the only way to get pattern progress, why not have other ways that grant progress or even have some vendor system to grant the pattern entirely after meeting certain objectives? People can still use their Deepsight Harmonizers to get patterns quicker, but the experience can be more than what we have now.
And yes, I do hope that dungeon weapons also become craftable at some point. The RNG in this game sucks and grinding boss encounters for hours while getting potentially nothing to show for it is a massive waste of time, and people are tired of that. Whether that be due to burnout or because there are better games worth spending time on.
A little louder so people in the back can hear you.
@@LtNoodle I think a lot of what I say will fall on deaf ears. People have been playing this game a lot longer than I have (I started August 2020) and have an idea of what they want. For most, that is chasing RNG and nostalgia. Does not matter if that means they waste more time in the game getting drops or that it is against their own best interest. They want the dopamine rush.
The more interesting thing about all of this is that people who want RNG are still free to grind for their drops, even now. Nobody does that though...because they know it is waste of time. They want the game changed to that /everyone/ else has to also grind RNG drops. Seems rather selfish to me.
You and I are pretty much in agreement here, and I’m not someone who started when you did. I’ve been around since D1 beta.
I’m one of those who sees it as an RNG mitigator (mainly because it is; it’s obviously good at that), but I also see it as an end game reward too. If I get it, I use it when I want and where I want. It’s great.
I don’t know if adepts are worthy of being phased out, because they have their own interesting benefits and twists, but I get where you’re coming from. They’re a much older weapon classification, so they’re more prone to stagnation or normalization. Even D1 had them in some capacity. However, I think they have more long term discussions and plans going on. Earlier this year, I remember some weapon devs in podcast interviews talking about ways they could innovate on nightfall and Trials adepts, and they’ve already rolled out their plan on raid adepts for Root and Crota. I don’t think they’re done with them yet.
However, I have doubts about dungeon guns becoming craftable. They’ve been basically using them for the sake of experimentation and versatility since Duality came out. Duality gave us our first 3 round burst linear (Stormchaser); Spire gave us our first 120 RPM legendary scout (Long Arm) and first sidearm with Desperado (Liminal Vigil); Ghosts gave us our first wave frame with Kill Clip (New Pacific Epitaph) and our first rapid fire glaive (Greasy Luck).
IMO, an "ideal" solution would be making crafting something you can do to any weapon, modifying random drops by changing perk selection after an investment of resources and/or experience.
Sort of like vanilla destiny perk leveling but your weapon doesn't start out useless - you just get the ability to change a variety of perks with gameplay investment.
Enhanced perks could be craftable on "anything," but pinnacle-tier drops would have a higher chance of dropping already enhanced with better perk pools.
Maybe craftable weapons should just unusable frames that drop with no perks until you invest in them? A bit like the Lament or the Rev Zero quests?
Having an enhancement core (to get enhanced perks, once per core) that would drop from end game content would be the best solution for that problem imo.
That sounds great on paper until a month or so later went power creep would completely end all weapon grind desire way more than it is right now
Before crafting launched I imagined it working like a knockout system for perks. Each random drop you get unlocks those perks in the crafting menu. If you get the roll you want before all the perks you can stop.
It should have been like this. It still keeps the energy of getting a godroll, but it does still give a greater chance compared to random rng
This makes so much more sense to me than the 5 patterns, an actual feeling of progression instead of hoping for the 5th pattern
Love you Nomad but your first point feels like conflating personal experience with community norms; my friends and I still raid every week as a social activity, whether we've got all of the loot or not, and maybe we aren't in the majority but raiders in general aren't the majority, so I'm not sure red borders are really hurting raid participation. Generally I don't disagree with your video but again these are points that apply to the all-the-time Destiny player, craftable weapons have been an inarguable boon for people who dip in and out and do want god rolls but honestly don't want to grind the game every day.
Hey that's fair, good on you and your friends for continuing to play. Me personally I'm seeing the lower concurrent player counts and the fact that my friends list has completely dried up to come to my conclusions. Of course everyone's got a different reality they live.
I did say in the video that raid participation is likely a factor of other things, but red borders are not helping things
@@AscendantNomad Fairly casual but longtime player here (handful of titles, pre-Steam, couple thousand hours, occasional raid and dungeon, occasional GM). Red border chase increases the chances of me raiding; the thing keeping me from it is lack of regular groups/real life responsibilities. For content creators and hardcore players who can go grind it out with dedicated groups it's obviously different, but I don't have a single crafted raid weapon and it irks me.
I like the crafting system; it's kept me more engaged in the seasonal stuff for sure, because I know there are chase weapons I'll be able to make my preferred version of.
The only problem with crafting is that Bungie has seemed to build the game around it. Meaning other forms of content/chasing has become sparse because red boarders are the only real goal outside of a title.
Besides that… crafting isn’t a problem. Mindless grinding for RNG sometimes for YEARS to get a god role for a weapon in a video game is quite literally a mental illness… and I’m will for people to try and challenge that stance.
Specifically in the raid example if I have time I’ll do it with all 3 characters every week and then once I have all the armor once a week red boarders and maybe finish up some challenges and it takes about the whole season to 100% ref boarders and title without grinding the raid to death. That seems like fair, worthwhile and health amount of play for an activity.
I could go on a say I don’t play the dungeon any more than anything else to chase RNG and so on and so forth.
Truth be told… most of your video caveats is that the game has all sorts of problems and basically crafting makes it feel amplified. Which is the truth… outside of mini boss or boss DPS (and there’s been times it’s not even true then) weapons don’t even matter.
Enhanced perks is the Pandora's box here. The current system of "triumphs = drop rate boost" is VERY good solution for RNG exotics. For playlist drops, multi perk columns needs to be GUARANTEED upon X number of vendor resets. That should also apply to adepts from GMs and Trials.
I've got a group of friends who play, about four of us consistently enough to try for aspirational content like GMs, and enough who play only casually from time to time that we can usually raid once a week or two. We mostly do VoG since that was the raid we trained the casual players on. VoG doesn't have crafted weapons, but by the time we got most of the group Mythoclast with catalyst (we did a handful of the drop rate increase challenges so this only took us ~10 runs or so), most of us were pretty done with VoG, the level of RNG required to find the exact perfect rolls of our favorite weapons was not equal to the grind. Considering this was without red borders, with a mix of both casuals and more grind-oriented players, I really don't think the issue is red borders at all. Conversely, the promise of red borders actually gets people in my group to log on more for raids like Kings Fall. Taken together I can't help but feel like raid red borders makes people more likely to raid in the first place, they are rewards that feel tangible enough to actually get people playing the game in the first place. I know my group's experience isn't the same as everyone's, but when I hear that people have every red border for every weapon for every raid, I can't help but feel like they are treating the game as a day job more than they should. Obviously there are people who kind of have to, this channel included, but I don't think that should be the focus for the devs making these game systems.
The biggest mistake was giving craftable weapons enhanced perks. I’ve gotten legit god roll weapons before I completed their patterns, then I dismantled that god roll for an even better version of the same weapon with enhanced perks.
I think their biggest issue was making the normal rolls useless. Enhance perks don't make the base perks useless. What makes normal weapons uses is that they don't contribute to anything if they don't have a red border. The better solution would be that you still gain levels for that weapon even if it's not crafted. That would encourage me to still use a good role that I get instead of being upset that it doesn't have a red border. Crafting was supposed to alleviate RNG eventually. Not make it irrelevant.
As one of the many people that don’t have many opportunities to raid, (my raids are very…. Very few and far between) I do appreciate the crafting system. I do recognize that there is an overall problem with the crafting system in relation to all of the points you have made. If there was someway to keep them around to where you can make them have average to above average roles so you can take them into raids and dungeons and get the BiS stuff there. I do agree with your point that comp PvP, trials, GM and raids should keep the enhanced perks. But as for someone like me as I’m sure like many others don’t get to taste raid or lighthouse gear all that much keeping the patterns to 5 I think is plenty fair. Those weapons can have the enhanced perks and they can just add the cherry on top to the gun so that way they don’t seem so overwhelming that you “have” to grind for them or you feel forced to in order to have a competitive edge. The ability to have adept mods and enhanced perks to make your chosen weapon 100% perfect should be “The” chase and having those things at the end or during trials and the raids and GMs seems like a good cherry to chase to get people to participate in those activities.
Exactly what I have been saying! Enhanced perks are the issue entirely. You could get the 1/1000 drop perfect roll, but it doesn’t matter because enhanced perks make it obsolete.
I'd replace Enhanced Perks with the option to add additional perk selections on the weapons. They wouldn't outclass the RNG drops merely because they're crafted, but they'd keep them desirable to have more versatility on your favorite frame.
To encourage more Raid Completions, they ought to offer Ascendant Shards and Alloy and Enhancement Prisms. Add Mementos for each raid, the potential for particular weapon skins from Master Level Raids.
I think the simple solution is the master raid adept system, but apply it to not just adept but craftables in general.
It puts the focus back on random rolls, but you can still level the weapon and use enhanced perks. And you can still use the crafting table to change the barrel and mag as you level it.
Completely removes the red border grind, and if they give ALL adept weapons, the master raid treatment adept weapons will be worth chasing again.
Just my 2 cents.
I disagree. Adding enhanced perks to craftables and adebts still wint be enough. Add enhancing to every single legendary weapon in the game.
@justsomedude1593 I actually agree. I think this should ultimately be a system ALL weapons adopt going forward.
I just miss my pinnacle weapons. I know that they became too ubiquitous, but boy-o-boy do I miss my recluse, mountaintop, breakneck, 21% delirium, and python. These were great weapons that probably should have been the standard for something to grind for, not just sunset out of usability. I'll definitely still pull one out of collections every once and awhile just to have some fun
The reason I enjoy crafted weapons is simply that I am a casual player. I never enjoyed a heavy grind for a single gun, and most of my day is taken up by work. Knowing that the guns waiting in Destiny for me are simply ones I need to level up. That is the reason I love using crafted weapons.
I love the craftable weapons. I’m a PVP main though and only play PVE to get the weapons to use against other players. My main concern though is the PVP sucks and I don’t wanna play for that reason lol. Came back to play Trials a few times and everyone is just putting supers on the objective to win games so I laughed at how bad it was and went back to better PVP FPS games.
What PvP fps games are you playing? I’ve been on a search for games to replace destiny with and haven’t been able to find a good PvP game.
@@Ace_Gunner just cycle between Destiny Cod Halo and Apex. Until something new comes out but I really enjoyed that finals beta and waiting to see how XDefiant plays out. Would play Destiny only but yeah games not fit right now.
@@scottparrott5674Halo Infinite is really solid right now, it's ironic that 343 actually made Halo Infinite a better game by listening to their community and implementing what the players wanted while at the same time bungie effed Destiny up by not listening to the players.
@@FrogOf4Chan Infinite is a lot better but it’s no surprise. They fired all the management and put the guy who saved the MCC in charge. Just a bit too late is all. He should’ve been in charge from the get go and everything Halo related from here on out I’m excited for if he’s running the show for sure.
@@scottparrott5674 Hell yeah! I bought MCC and have been loving replaying all my old Halo games.
I'm glad Infinite is on a good track and look forward to seeing more and more good things come from Halo Infinite.
I wish crafted weapons were modeled after the quest for nechrochasm.
Garunteed steady pattern progress (preferably from every drop), random extra progress (red borders), a small chance to instantly get what you want (a random roll godroll)
Enhanced perks were a mistake imo, but its a Pandora's box situation, and I think all weapons should be raid adept weapon style enhanceble to even the playing field between random rolls and crafted weapons, this makes the 5/5 godroll random drop meaningful again.
With these changes I think it would be possible to make every weapon craftable as long as the patterns needed is adjusted to keep the grind in the game without leaving players grinding for eternity (seriously bungie im tired of getting 2/5 bottom dollars, 7 gambit resets of engrams, all with the potential to roll with 3 perks per column, should be more than enough to get atleast a 4/5)
Having a set number of raids to do in order to get the weapon I am chasing makes me more motivated to do a raid rather than endlessly and hopelessly chasing a gun that may never drop.
I still wish you could choose to steal a perk instead of power with infusion instead of crafting. There's been so many times that I've been one perk short of a roll I wanted, and then the next drop has that one perk and nothing else
Loot is not why you play games.
Or at least it should not be.
Fun and community is why you should play games.
The very idea that you want to chase loot, or that you like the grind...
That is not your idea. That is an insidious "inception" of an idea by the team of psychologists game studios hire to manipulate you - often called the "investment team."
Stop centering LOOT in your thinking and commentary about gaming.
Instead center FUN. Center COMMUNITY.
I know some of you want to fight me about this - you genuinely believe the loot chase is why you play.
I want to remind you of some of the greatest games of all time:
HALO (1, 2, 3, Reach)
Space Invaders
Pac Man
Super Mario Brothers
People still play all of those - even at their respective highest levels of challenge.
It is NOT about the loot.
What is loot for in games?
So you can curbstomp content you used to "fear."
I spent literal years looking for a specific nation of beasts. I have 96 last wish clears. Still had not gotten it. Then, I was able to craft it. Their old system was terrible imo and I like the crafting system.
Bungie will do all of this and then next season STREAMERS will make videos about why they dont like it now ... like LITERALLY they asked for crafting to balance on rng ..and now look
Don't think there was any doom and gloom here, just some realistic thoughts on the currrent situation. Well thought out IMO
Yeah, sorry, I love your videos, but this just reads like an "elitist" who got mad about a casual killing them too many times in PvP with an enhanced perks crafted weapon. How many people actually get to experience top end content on a regular basis? Your idea basically shuts all but the most toxic 5% of the community out of the very best weapons in the game. The crafting system was literally intended (in part, along with reducing RNG fatigue) to avoid that from happening and so far, it's done a pretty dang good job of it. In a perfect game, sure, a tiered system might not be a bad idea, but this is Destiny. I think your starting point here is inherently flawed. TBH, I think crafting should be expanded to things like Trials. Get a flawed 7 win card? Turn it in for a red boarder of that weekends weapon. Then folks won't have the intense FOMO that the current reward system breeds. You won't have an adept, but you'd have a crafted version that at least is comparable.
Honestly....
I love crafting.
I hate grinding, I'm playing D2 for the gameplay, not as a looter shooter.
I'm raiding for fun. Grinding completely turns me off of playing.
So craftables? Yeah they got me back into playing again and made me have the most fun I've had with the game.
But I agree, enhanced perks should be random only. I personally don't care that much about them, and it'll make the looter shooter players happy so... where's the harm?
And I personally am kinda meh on a higher focus on weapons?
I love the current ability heavy sandbox, I love making builds that can clear a room and kill a boss without using a weapon, but I can see why a renewed focus on weapons could be beneficial too.
for the point of raid weapons I disagree in the fact that I get the Adepts over the craftables for RoN and CE. Despite me having every single raid weapon craftable from RoN and CE I refuse to craft them since the Adepts are always better
Very weak video with even weaker points. There should be guaranteed ways to get the exact weapons that you're grinding for. Bungie should be respecting your play time. RNG may be a reason to play an activity more, but that does NOT mean it's an argument in favor of RNG. You still have to play the content, quite a bit, to get the red boarders that you need. It's a solid solution between guaranteed loot and RNG.
To be frankly - only crafting keeps me still playing this game. To unlock all red borders from the raid you need a lot of time. And I think that it is enough for a one-time activity. RNG sucks, still dont get Vex after 50 completions.
Maybe if Bungie didn’t gatekeep god rolls I would agree. The amount of time and effort I’ve put into farming certain guns looking for specific roles that they know we want is absurd. I’m talking 2000 drops on certain guns without even the combination of the 2 perks that I want together but a bunch of combos of perks nobody would ever use
The problem is the game and the activities themselves. Used to love destiny, until i couldnt buy annual dlc and season, and finally noticed how lackluster most activities are. They're amazing for the first few days but lack any staying power and quickly get old.
The mere idea that there are people who wish for an "optimized" version of the hell that used to be "getting a godroll" is boggling. It's further boggling that people will die on that hill for the sake of comparison to the effort it takes to get said weapons, and yet, their only complaint is that it "decentivizes play for good weapon rolls". Yet if it weren't here, people would complain about how RNG dictates their lives and is a cruel force of nature. People, please just stop. Accept it. Move on. It's not that deep. Play the game, shoot the guns, and let it be what it is.
No they dont man shut up. Crafted weapons are just fine. Noone wants to have to spin the RNG wheel 1000 times until MAYBE you get something good
I burn to 50 engrams today to not get one roll of a gun from crucible in which I have a reset the rank four times which means I have multiple perks. 3 per column. I still didn’t get the gun I wanted. Imma craft every goddamn thing.
This makes me realize over the last couple seasons, I've dismantled 99% of everything I've acquired, to the point of dismantling without even looking at the perks. I know my catalog is full of weapons to be crafted whenever I feel like it so any drops that don't offer something spicy or unique is an insta trash. Sucks not having the connection to the loot rush this game used to have.
Honestly that just sounds like what the game was before crafting to me, I'd still end up sharding 99% of the drops I got because they were god awful.
You‘d be doing the same even if there wasn’t any crafting. That’s just what you do in a looter shooter if you been playing for a while. You only keep the 5/5‘s.
@@SwoleakhulTheBlind Exactly, There's only so many ways to make the fairly mundane, non-exotic, guns of Destiny actually stand out and... well a fair few archetypes have already peaked. I highly doubt we'll see a breach loading GL that's better than Forbearance any time soon for example.
never doubt the power creep, two dmg perks in both columns and forbearance moves to the vault. magine chain reaction and rampage or something@@S3Cs4uN8
You know, the tiers proposed in this video could correspond to weapon qualities: Common (white) world drops, Uncommon (green) seasonal and core playlist weapons, Rare (blue) dungeons, raids, competitive and trials, and Legendary (Purple) adepts. That would add some functionality to an item system that exists and that players haven't interacted with for years.
Make every gun craftable at base. But my RNG chase would be perks/perk combos that can be slotted into every gun. Want raid perks on a world drop that feels perfect? Grind that raid for the perks and then slot them in. Some new fire perk drops in S23 but you love your Piece of Mind? Go nuts. But also I'd love a wipe mechanic to go with it. You never lose the gun but you would have to regrind perks or find new ones. I don't know where enhanced perks live in this but I suppose you'd have to spend a decent amount of crafting mats for enhancing.
So, whenever raid drops were pure RNG, once you got all the drops you didn't stop playing the raid?
I have alot of guns unlocked to be crafted but I place a higher value on my blessed/grinded rng guns especially for PvP.
But it's nice alternative for those with less time, don't want to grind and deal with too much rng, and for newer players.
But as a veteran player loot in general is kinda boring especially the seasonal guns that are basically there to be handed out, another lot just to add to the collection.
The games been out so long even with the sunsetting most stuff are similar or reissued with different perks for better or worse.
Just the excitement of chasing loot is kinda missing.
For the longevity of Destiny, if it has that, will Bungie make changes? Or is this it?
I recently took a hard look at my vault and realized I use so few crafted weapons. I have them all and maybe 1/4 of them are “fun” or “useful” to use. I agree something needs to change. Like you, I don’t know what that would be.
Realistically, we need more ways of curbing the RNG from drops in general, or some method of helping you out with RNG, if youre going for your perfect roll, theres a lot of factors at play. I actually do like the way that they handled the adept enhanceable weapons from root of nightmares, where you can change barrel, mag, and masterwork, but your two main perks are set in stone. Even then though, getting perfect rolls is very much up to RNG, back in season of arrivals I was looking for an overflow + rampage False Promises, and it straight up took me like 100+ engram focuses to get it. Or looking for the god roll Memory Interdict for several months and finally getting the impulse + chain reaction roll only for it to not have prox nades. Having ways to curb RNG in your favor if you get unlucky would be extremely nice, and without that for random drops, crafting feels like the objectively superior option even disregarding enhanced perks.
Ultimately in terms of game design, I think it really comes down to the return on player time and effort investment. I personally don't care to do Master raids because the Adept weapons are only marginally better than the regular raid weapons, and are uncraftable meaning you have to contend with getting your god roll. Why should I spend multiple hours and way more effort to clear Kings Fall on master with challenges for adept weapons, when I could take an hour or so to blast through normal mode for red borders to entirely avoid the RNG on the adepts? Why should I do legend difficulty seasonal activities when the drops they give aren't really any better than the normal ones? People were so excited for being able to spend cores and glimmer to level weapons because leveling weapons is a time investment that people will spend resources to bypass. Bypassing excessive time and effort investment is part of the reason why crafting is a problem, and alleviating the strains on that kind of investment by offering more generous or lenient returns on your time investment would likely do wonders for helping out non crafted weapons
Honestly I always hated the rng grind to the point where I just used whatever fell on the ground and was fun. Crafting made me somewhat care whats on it, but at the end of the day I just use what I find fun. I enjoy the current state of crafting because it feels more like my gun.
If it were up to me, I would go all-in in weapon crafting. The franchise is dying and the player base is done grinding at this point. And to be brutally honest, almost every weapon in the past 3 years has been a reskin of another weapon already in the game. My solution is this ; make everything craftable, from scratch. You choose the weapon archetype, then a weapon model corresponding for the archetype with a specific foundry, each foundry having slightly different base stats (each foundry having a different feel and soul). Then you get the choice between a few sights and sounds. Even the energy type. Then there's already a massive perk pool for each weapon type, just let the players go wild and combine whatever the want. Just look how people like buildcrafting, I'm sure they would love it.
I just finished watching your video and I think you made a fundamental flaw in your logic. You said that already having your weapons makes the game less replayable. Then it means the content is perhaps worse than you thought and were only addicted to loot. Players should engage with the content because it's fun, not because they're addicted.
People are done doing that raid for borders and I barely stepped my feet into the newest reprised raid.
That joke at 4:53 made me laugh out loud , might be a joke but its exactly how it feels
nah.
crafted weapons aren’t a problem.
I see this sentiment a lot but even though crafting has some issues it’s leagues better than what we had before for most loot.
I never want to go back to a time where I have to “earn” the roll I’m chasing by spending hundreds of hours in an activity I don’t find fun.
And the thing is I have gotten those rolls on a lot of loot currently existing in the game. Like of all the crucible weapons I’ve turned in hundreds potentially thousands of engrams and have gotten very little to show for it
I really want wish Ender to be craftable. I want it to be meta wish Ender is love wish Ender is life
I just think it needs a catalyst something two spice it up
Gotta be honest, I completely disagree and I think this is one of the dumbest discussions in the community. for Context: I'm a vet of this game, my favorite handcannons in Trials are my GR Adept Exalted Truth and crafted Kept Confidence, my favorite PVE weapons rn are my GR Adept Burden of Guilt and crafted Insidious.
>Adept/Enhanced mathematically do not make a SIGNIFICANT difference except in outliers.
>Everyone hated rng, now everyone hates crafting...lol
>Whats the point? Idk man, what's the 'point in playing at all.
>"people want to Raid less": such a tiny % of D2 players are willing to to engage with the endgame because it's "too hard" that crafted raid loot is miles away from being the problem.
>"some crafted weapons are pointless" (this season LMG)-meaningless assertion given that we're always one sandbox change away from a forgotten archetype taking over. People weren't going sicko mode in Trials with 120s 6 months ago.
>Why are some weapons craftable and others not: You answered that yourself with the Raid thing. It makes raids less appealing to vets with all the loot, sure, but if NOTHING was rng then Destiny would genuinely have 0 chase.
>I sort of agree with your conclusion...except it returns me to my biggest gripe with most d2 players: they're f***ing chicken***t p****s about anything hard that doesn't give instant gratification.
I like the idea of tiered red borders with the highest tier "unlocking" the ability to craft with enhanced perks. The obvious downside is, in effect, the best weapons in the game will be reserved for the best players. Not sure how that can be mitigated.
On Eleatic Principle, I did not like it at first but it ended up making me love rapid-fire frame LMGs. I like it with Heating Up + Golden Tricorn. Pairs nicely with Getaway Artist on my Warlock.
Videos like this where the message is that crafted weapons hurt the game are incredibly disappointing to see. Crafted weapons are not a problem and do not hurt the game. There is no problem with having a deterministic pathway to getting an item that you want. In fact, there should be more of them. The problem and issue is entirely the way they were implemented. Enhanced perks need to go, as they defeat the whole purpose of the crafting system by making them de facto better than other weapons. Frontloading the grind with red borders and then having the 5/5 being free from that point on was also an incredible mistake. The pursuit of a god roll can be preserved in a world with crafted weapons. Crafting a gun is a safety net for the guy that has 1000 looted runs without the thing they want, so that if they don't hit the 0.1% odds of getting the roll they want they can still get there one day. But if they do hit the odds, then they don't need to craft it. There are systems like this in dozens of other games that actually do it correctly, but Bungie just had to be quirky about it and has thoroughly ruined the concept for a community that doesn't know better. Videos that drive the message that crafting is bad don't help.
You didn't watch the video to the end did you
I did, and you ultimately agree with what I wrote. So why start the video with a timestamp calling crafted weapons the problem if you don't believe it?
"It hurt the game" no it didn't
Nah bro, rng hunting is such bullshit. I've spent way too much time to get a specific roll just to never get it. Crafted weapons highlight why rng rolls are so inferior
I spent 20 hours of nonstop farming only to get a 2/5 cold comfort. I've had much worse in dungeons previous. Crafting is just better. Enhanced perks are the problem.
@@oxsila I spent the entirety of this years festival of the lost trying to get a Horror story with demolitionist and headstone but never got it. If enhanced perks on craftables are a problem then give them multiple perks like how you can get guns with multiple perks from core playlists after resetting your ranks.
I personally think enhanced perks should just straight up be deleted from the game and crafting should stay. But non crafted versions of weapons of guns you can craft, those should allow multiple perks like you mentioned. That way, people who don't craft don't feel like their time is wasted coz someone has just crafted a god roll whilst they farm.@@mikufollower8564
When everything’s enhanced, nothing is.
Crafting is a good way to alleviate rng in endgame activities so you can get that roll you want with a grind. The problem is once you’ve got everything from an activity crafted, there’s no point in going for those items anymore.
Enhanced perks are also a problem, they make regular items worse than their crafted counterparts.
Heyo, hobbyist game dev/designer here. It’s been years since I’ve touched destiny, but I’d like to share some of my perspective on one aspect of this video.
If you’d like to know why it feels like crafted weapons don’t know what “tier” they belong too in the hierarchy, it is (my belief) in large part due to the game no longer having “tiers” of loot anymore at all. They may technically exist as commons, rares, and legendaries, but when shadowkeep released and “end game is the game” became a reality, everyone was set to max level. This in turn converts any need for commons and rares, into to solely be scrap fodder for lvling your legendaries. This means only two types of weapons matter to the player
Legendaries and exotics.
But when everyone rocks a legendary weapon, then the legendary tier becomes the average floor and the exotic gun becomes the exciting ceiling.
All of this too say crafted weapons can’t fall into a tier between them because Bungie doesn’t want something craftable to be better than exotics, but now that means that crafted weapons can only sit with the floor, the now average legendaries.
And how do we all feel as players when something is average? Well it isn’t that exciting is it? There’s probably far more to it than this in Destiny’s case but I wanted to share a small shred of my opinion on this particular part of your video. Great vid btw
If we had the option to essentially "cannibalize" perks from other weapons we are not using at all that are not already crafted into a gun that is just a frame i.e. a 540 and put in High Impact Reserves and Headseeker for the last two perk slots, like a Grasp of Malok I had D1 that I took everywhere and only switched it out when I needed longer ranges.
Other than that, it was far more bloodthirsty than the Hive from it's namesake. It would still require us to go hunting down guns in some way, but of course there would be rules like only pulse rife perks can be put into other pulse rifles for instance.
Crafting was really the final nail in the coffin for farming. Armour doesnt really need replacing once you have good sets and now I run almost exclusively crafted weapons or exotics as I dont need to spend hours to potentially get a better weapon. Instead I'm playing other games more (which isnt necessarily a bad thing) but as you mention Raiding with your clan can plummet after everyone gets their red borders. I havent even done a dungeon in a while aside from getting a solo flawless.
I would love an amazing Wilderflight, the Spire GL. It does more damage than a normal GL and can get Auto Loading with Frenzy which is great for Izanagi swap combos. However after already spending probably 5+ hours of farming the chicken and getting a 3-4 out of 5 roll I was tired of the dry streaks of not even getting a wilderflight for a couple runs. So I could farm for a weapon that would be way better or you could just use a random ALH grenade launcher you found or craft an explosive personality with it.
Crafting in my mind would supplement RNG but not eliminate it. My ideas are crafting would let us reroll a single column on a gun as much as we want with a cost associated, probably just glimmer. This lets us turn a natural drop 4/5 into a 5/5 without making it too free as you need the 4/5 to drop first. Another idea is just let us change the Barrel, Magazine and Masterwork columns and have the 2 perks locked so you need to get a weapon to drop with those 2 perks then you finish it off for the stats you like, more range, handling, reload, etc...
Crafting should be adding more acquired weapon rows to acquired weapons or change one perk to another acquired perk like The Division. The crafting system is flawed and ruins the looter part of the game
Meh... Rng bad people complain. Craftable weapons people complain. Too many weapons, complains, not enough weapons, complains, Bungie can't win. And it's honestly because they are stretching the game into a paper thin experience because they want more money for little effort. Destiny 2 is just pretty much done, no matter what they do.
i always felt like there too many achetypes of gun. Rapid-fire, Precision, adaptive, etc.
I always go for what flinch more and what reload faster.
That said, i don't care for crafted weapons anymore... way less, i should say.
I crafted nothing from the last year.
Also, I'm a solo player, i don't PvP, i don't raid. And the world drops are ridiculously rare.
I haven't really heard anyone say this before but I think crafting should work more like how adept enhancing works. You can change 1 or maybe 2 of the perks on any weapon you have the pattern for but you can't fully craft one from scratch. So you still need to grind for your 3/5 or 4/5 but you can still use it as a 5/5 with enhanced perks. Then adept is just a layer on top of that with adept mods and maybe better base stats or smth.
To this day it hurts my brain trying to wrap my head around the fact that Bungie absolutely refuses to fix the abysmal RNG rates, in a looter shooter of all games.
While I appreciate the crafting system, it's a band-aid in the wound that is the awful RNG.
GOOD GOD YOUR BACKGROUND IS WHITE. Genuinely had to close my eyes when your facecam was on. Plz fix.
Interesting video tho! When my eyes weren’t melting out of my skull.
I’m pretty sure I would have stopped playing Destiny 2 if crafting hadn’t been incorporated into the game. I want agency in my weapons. As a stark reminder of how crappy RNG-only weapons feel: I just focused 60 Iron Banner engrams for Pressurized Precision, hoping to roll a Moving Target & Hi-Impact Reserves. Did. Not. Get. Even. One with that roll. Nevermind the barrel, mag, and masterwork.
The only issue I'd have with Adepts being the only thing with enhanced perks is they also have enhanced stats elsewhere. The top players already dominate PvP and this would just widen that gap, especially with SBMM being near useless due to low player population.
Great video, I think you hit a lot of good points. Weapons grinds are essential for destiny. How long did one grind for the God roll black armory hand cannon, that 4/5 Igenous. Crafted weapons have their place, but what kept most going back for hours in the armory, just as in trials, is the chance that "the one" will eventually drop!
While I do agree that crafting is in a weird spot in the game, I disagree with a lot of the points made in this video. So I'll go over my thoughts for each chapter and do my best to be open minded and provide examples.
Chapter 2: Red borders becoming the godroll is the whole point. Instead of waiting for the 5/5 godroll that potentially will never drop, you're now pursuing a series of drops that can be systematically guaranteed. Additionally, I doubt that red border drops are significantly harming a raid's population for 2 reasons: You finish all your patterns by the time you're starting to get bored with the raid. And having 2 guaranteed red border drops per week has incentivized many players to clear the raid more consistently.
Chapter 3: Adept weapons are still valuable in the current meta, and this is largely due to adept mods (Adept Big Ones for PvE and adept stat mods for PvP). The increase to all stats upon masterworking is another mechanic that makes adept weapons strong. Also, world drop weapons are now unique enough to be desirable over crafted weapons (Irukandji, Combined Action, Nox Pernnial).
Chapter 4: Crafted weapons having varying power isn't a bad thing and it's not even the crafted element that causes that gap in performance. If crafting were not in the game, Eramite would still be significantly better than Elatic Principle. Also, all seasonal weapons being craftable has less to do with introducing players to crafting and more to do with preserving seasonal weapons. With crafting we can now acquire any weapon from the Witch Queen seasons even though the content and it's drops have been removed from the game.
Chapter 5: The important difference between Mercurial Overreach and Beloved is the element. The weapon element is crucial to making MOST builds in PvE and SOME builds in PvP.
Chapter 6: Maybe this video was made right before S23 launched because the claim that weapons aren't central to the Destiny 2 experience no longer holds up. Over the past year, we've seen Bungie add massive damage increases to all sorts of weapons (exotic reworks, hand cannon damage buff, sniper rifle damage buff). Bungie has also been encouraging gunplay by re-working exotics to buff weapon damage (Skullfort, Foetracer, Battle Harmony), nerfing ability uptime and effectiveness (Throwing Hammer, Starfire Protocol, Devour), and adding new archetypes (257 RPM HC, 100 RPM Sidearm).
Conceptually, I tend to agree.
But in practice, I think the people concerned about the ridiculous levels of RNG to get what you want are right.
It seems like a hybrid of craft and RNG would be a compromise, and it could open up to all weapons:
Let's say you get a fresh roll on Bottom Dollar, it has Explosive Payload, but the rest is trash.
Get a second Bottom Dollar, even worse, so what you could then do is reroll your first Bottom Dollar, but use your second as a "Focused Lock", allowing you to keep that Explosive Payload, but random reroll everything else.
Your reroll just happened to end up 3/5 of a godroll, but you want that 5/5, so you collect 3 more Bottom Dollars to lock those 3 perks, and reroll the other two unlocked perks.
There would naturally be glimmer costs and junk (probably spoils for Raid weapons as well), but the most important part is using bad rolls for currency.
Is this involved? Yes.
But I think it would be better for engagement for any part of the game, especially playlist specific guns, and likewise it would provide a level of bad roll protection while you shoot for that 5/5.
Still needs RNG, requires engagement in the game for specific drops, but better respects the players investment, as they get to focus on what they want.
Plus, we no longer have a weird divide between craftable and non-craftable. (And I thank making a way for including switchable perks in 3rd and 4th columns would be included as well)
While I agree that crafting went a little too far, I kinda don't trust Bungie to just go back to random drops and have things be alright. Look at the number of people who went specifically for a demo+headstone Horror Story for the ENTIRETY of Festival of the Lost and never got it. Not even looking for a perfect god-roll, just looking for column 3 and 4 to be correct - and still didn't get it. In my opinion, that should never happen.
If we want to go back to just pure RNG, we need ways to focus that RNG. I think that's why we got weapon crafting. Just giving people a way to get EXACTLY want they want is the simplest solution, so they went with it, even though it ended up having some pretty big drawbacks.
One of which is enhanced perks. While I don't think most enhanced perks are bad, some enhanced perks are SO GOOD that it makes any gun that can't get an enhanced version of that perk dead in the water. For example, subsistence on shotguns only gives 1 round back on a kill, but ENHANCED subsistence gives 2 rounds back. The enhanced version of that perk on non auto-rifles and smg's is literally TWICE as good!
I think if we were to get crafting 2.0, I think it should be more similar to Darktide's system. Have it apply to ALL weapons, but only have it let you modify an existing roll slightly, rather than crafting a weapon from scratch. That way there is still an incentive to hunt down a pretty good random roll, with say maybe 4/5 of the things having rolled right, and then you can use the crafting system to perfect it into the exact beast you want it to be.
As much as I like crafted weapons I do agree that they were a mistake. Not having a crafting-esque system in and of itself, but the way that it was implemented. No Destiny weapon should have been fully craftable imo. How do you then have a crafting system without crafting? The same way that The Division and Diablo 3 did it. I'll explain.
We'll use Eyasluna as an example. No, it's not craftable. Doesn't matter.
You run Grasp 3 times(once per character) and get 2 Eyasluna and both of them dropped with 1 craft charge(you can only do the following once per weapon). The first roll is a 3 out of 5 for what you were looking for. The other one? That's a 2 out of 5 with the rest being throwaway perks, but what's this? That 2 out of 5 has the missing Perk and Masterwork that you were looking for on your other one. You take them to the crafting table and pull up the 3 out of 5 on it. You get what looks like the pulldown menu for infusion, but instead it has all currently owned rolls for Eyasluna. You inspect the 2 out of 5 Eyasluna in that menu and when you scroll over the perks you get a prompt to transfer perk, for a price of course. You hold the button on the perk you want and a text box pops up, "Warning. This action will dismantle this weapon from your inventory! Do you still wish to continue?" Turns out that you do, so you continue. You get one more text box, " Transfer successful! Do you wish to transfer Masterwork as well?" Yes, you do. You do it and now you have your 5 out of 5 roll that you've been wanting.
You cannot transfer perks from other weapons or weapon types because the weapon perk pools have to match up for this to be possible. The Masterwork can be transferred as well because they're all the same across the game.
I think that THIS is how crafting in Destiny SHOULD have worked, but what do I know? I'm not a dev.
As for Enhanced Perks. I say we make them the base level perks and get rid of the "Enhanced" title. We then do something else with Adepts to make them more meaningful.
Enhanced Perks are the only legitimate example of Bungie "overdelivering" on something to a detrimental degree.
If Enhanced Perks didn't exist on craftables, then they would be equal in value to a lucky 5/5 godroll, and there would still be value in the weekly loot chase.
Even better still, if only Raid Adepts or other such Adept weapons could get the Enhanced traits, that would have made them VERY desirable for weekly grinding.
Bungie really shot themselves in the foot with Enhanced Perks from Day 1 of Witch Queen.
Why can't we accept the fact that gaming in general is growing stale, and no matter what any studio does to attract players, it'll be pointless as the attention span we now possess will never warrant spending a lot of time in a game, because it will get boring.
Thus, the value proposition is key!
Does the developer value the time you put in the game?
Crafted weapons is Bungie's response to that question, and the answer is yes.
They're not asking for you to raid ad nauseum because the EXPERIENCE is fun (it is, but only when you are with cool people)... they're asking you to raid to get loot. The loot pool is (1) new armor, (2) the exotic and (3) red border weapons.
Then you take those weapons, craft them, and then play PvP and Gambit and master the builds you can with the rewards you've received.
That is an amazing value proposition, and shows you that Bungie values your time (as you mention, Nomad, at 4:17 in this video)
Enough said...all this talk about how crafting weapons ruined the chase aren't true....because no one liked the original chase!!
It was boring. It's boring now to spend 40-50 hours a week in a single game.
Today's gamers like variety. Today's gamers like value.
Today's gamers don't think content creators should do anything other than build crafting or showing us hidden things they find in games or explaining lore or being a master assassin in PvP.
So, my advice to the CCs out there...do that.
13:32 a KNOCKOUT SYSTEM would’ve been better RNG protection on rolls you’ve already received but in some cases you’ll still have the ability to get a god roll before.
Adept weapons should’ve all just had Alacrity(or perks that I call survival perks, ie eye of the storm etc) on top of the two other random perks. I think it should be a more narrow or smaller rng pool of perks like only 6 variants then the og legendary has like 12 variants max. At 12 you can finally craft any version of the weapon. Once crafted to get an adept you should have to reach a certain level with said crafted weapon.
Finally after level reached you get randomized bounties for these weapons that upon completion you get one of these 6 variants to drop. This gives us 18 total variations of one weapon, now with 4 perks two random 1 faction perk and 1 survival.
Farming for Godrolls was a reality back in 2013-2015.
Crafting your Godroll is a dream in 2022-2024.
A perfect world where both co-exist is a far-sight that may never be.
I don't mind RNG when it isn't around 20 attempts (especially for something that requires other people like raids and certain dungeons), though I would rather have the ability to make weapons I know I would love to use.
And I don't want to wait for weeks to gather my dying fireteam or risk LFG when 7/10 of those groups are very... questionable.
When I'm the last one left in a dead team and no one else wants to play a raid/dungeon/activity, it'll only be me still hunting for a farmable/craftable weapon that may or may not matter at all.
My biggest issue is that some weapons with aesthetics and certain perks are not craftable but still need that farming.
I know that if weapons like Cold Comfort were craftable, very few (not everyone) would ever use other weapons again.
I just wish older weapons like the Europa weapons had this treatment since I love using those more than Crota weapons.
However, Crota weapons have the perks and the craftability. And while I agree the aesthetics are cool, not everyone wants guns with chitin or plates added to them.
We can't change the aesthetics because that would make spotting weapons harder in pvp (if that's still a complaint these days), so that leaves us with sticking with random rolls and craftables being as exclusive as they are now.
I'll change that opinion if anyone has a good reason otherwise.
This game has lost the ability to properly balance their weapons and armors, and to wish for something better would be as improbable as wishing for world peace. Not impossible, but not probable either.
All we can do is ride the waves and wait.
Because in the end, Bungie won't listen anymore.
For a long time I've felt like loot is the absolute wrong focus for this game. Why do people play Destiny? It's not for the story (lol). It's not for the grind and the "aspirational content". It's not for the balanced hardcore uber-competitive esports whatever. Other games do all this way better. It's the gameplay mechanics - the shooting, the atmosphere, the space magic. Outside of exotics, the loot is all the same. Blah blah god roll blah blah blah. All that stuff is psychological (unless you're the very tip-top of the skill pyramid I suppose).
What they need to focus on is gameplay. Think of how many games over the decades that people played over and over and over... just for the fun of it. Your clan stopped raiding once everybody got all the patterns. That shows that the fun of playing the game isn't how fun it is to play the game. It shows that it was only about the loot, which, at the end of the day, is just another game of "make number go bigger". It's Space Magic Cookie Clicker and the gameplay is a means to an end.
As for PVP... I've been saying for years that the crucible needs a mode where everybody starts with the exact same loadout and build. Halo style. Nobody can bitch about something if everybody spawns with one.
I mean I haven’t played in 3 weeks. It’s weird, but I need this break. D2 is still my fav game of all time but….. I just can’t bring myself to play. I’m not having fun, I don’t have anything worth chasing to me. I’m having 10x more fun playing other games till I’m ready to come back. This video, right here, is a big reason as to why my break continues.
I would have agreed it had legit challenge on release, but it's dummy easy now. Shuro chi bug for heavies, or just pay glim to level it up. Raid and season patters are a free 1/week. Season pass gives the pattern-ifiers.
And once you get your pattern? Never go back to the activity again. I can just change the 4th column if I want something new.
And fk adepts. Spending 1500 spoils for a fraction of a % better mod.
Bungie Not Long After FTP Goes Live: Were sunsetting certain things because its all players use from season/season, expansion/expansion
Bungie Upon Release of Crafted Weapons: Here's crap you'll end up using from season/season, expansion/expansion because hey, you can craft it and tweak it as we decide to nerf/buff certain perks; the only time you'll get something new is when it has different perks that your current gear
Was the old way better: Absolutely not - that would be hard stop playing the game for me. I was barely playing for enjoyment before craftables. It's why I'm around more.
Should endgame weapons be objectively superior:
If this was an MMO RPG and all we had to worry about is stats, yes. I do beleive that they should edge out their normal compatriots in all cases. Rather than eliminating enhanced rolls, however, they should, by default, function slightly better than what you can craft. Every perk on a pinnacle weapon should just be better than an enhanced by default (even if that means nerfing the current enhanced to compensate.)
This stops taking away from the persuit in crafting to go for the enhanced perks while keeping Adepts on top. Make all perks on Adepts just better. Period. But just for Adepts. The rest is fine.
Would the shift to Weapons First Gameplay kill the fun of D2? Yes. Hand's down.
While the gunfeel of this game is amazing, it's not the sole draw of this game for the majority of people, if it was there woulden't be such an uproar everytime a favorited ability based exotic got nerfed. I feel this is an imagined problem people who prefer gunplay generated for the sake of their own argument.
Weapons are a problem because weapon designs have bloated. I hate to say it but Sunsetting was the correct decision even if it was vastly unopopular. Think MMORPGs - Item levels are sunsetting in essence because as levels increase, 'better' gear comes around. This cycles out systems and allows for reinvention of items and perks and ages out problem stats, perks, weapons and items reliably enough to keep the game healthy.
Because we're not doing it here, weapons continue to get less and less worthwhile as the breath of them bloats out.
Keep a standard set of baseline, lower performance weapons that never expire that cover decently roles, then create cycling weapons that can be persued each year for a year.
Once we cycle out the problematic weapons in our systems, we can reintroduce them in a method that encourages more gunplay, or more synergistic play, depending on the demands. I'd prefer weapons that are focused more towards the tasks they're doing (PvP weapons for PvP, Raid Weapons for Raiding, Gambit, etc.) Right now there's just too much cross usage cases and that too is killing our weapon variety health.
I am not really against legendary crafted weapons, but i am COMPLETELY against exotic weapon crafting. It takes away from them being special. Especially if it took awhile for a drop. (Still hoping to put shaders on exotic weapons, is been almost a decade now)
Legendary crafting is not so much of a nuisance, if world drops happened more often especially from those with a multitude of perks. Chasing that 5 out of 5 would feel more rewarding. Instead of amassing a plethora of engrams for focusing.
I prefer crafting. Idk why we need Enhanced Perks, but I really like that once I have a pattern, I HAVE it. I'm a filthy hoarder. You've probably forgotten some perk combinations exist on certain frames, but I have them all. Crafted weapons will always be in my collections though, so I don't need to hold on to anything that can be crafted.
Also, deterministic paths towards loot is much more satisfying than RNG to me. I hate wanting a specific role for a build, and never getting it because the numbers hate me.
Man im not one to comment before watching a vid ..bur as soon as someone talks about crafting weapons ans it being"bad" for the game i dont even bother ...leaving it up to rng to decide who gets the perfect god roll and whi doesnt is silly to me .....a broken gun is a broken gun ... reguardless if u got it rng or u crafted it ...
My ideal crafting system is every weapon being slightly adjustable at the crafting table. Every column has 3 random craftable options. Say a 4/5 Spare Rations drops, with it's mag perk being Light Mag. You can take it to the crafting table and see the two other mag perks. Turns out it doesn't, but that's fine. You can farm for another drop, and this one is a 0/5. Absolute trash, but you take it to the table and would you look at that! Every slot has the exact perks you wanted! Sure, it's a little expensive now that you have to change every perk slot, but hey you no longer have to farm for Spare Rations. Giving every gun 3 random craftable choices in each slot would enable you to still craft your perfect gun while still allowing RNG to exist. I know this would help elevate issues with weapons that aren't craftable currently. I do think there is a place for crafted weapons as we have it now, but I think those should be reserved for super early game drops. I like that a new player has a quest line to give them decent weapons from the beginning, something that can grow with them as they move through the game. However I think that with this new system, they'll get weapons that will replace those beginner weapons and slowly creep them up to what Bungie deems late-gane weapons.
Feel like "crafting" would have been better if we had more of a "merging" system.
Not talking about the full on breaking, 2x EE sword and all that.
But feel like if you got one weapon with the trait you want in column 1 and the same weapon with the trait you want in column 2. After doing a few things, you can move the trait from one of the weapons to the other for the cost of one of the weapons and currency/materials.
No need for "enhanced traits" or bonuses.
Just allow someone to do a handful of strikes. Get 2 Positive Outlooks (good void auto rifle honestly). One with Destabilizing Rounds in column two, and Ambitious Assassin in column on. Smash them together and make a really good roll for any new players void build.
Hell, I still one that I've been using on my voidlock, since for the last 2 seasons anti-barrier auto rifle has been a thing.
Imo, crafting should live just been grinding random rolls of a gun you want then combining them into 1 gun, keeping mag, mw and perks you want to keep. So many times, I’m literally 1 stupid perk or a reload mw away from a 5/5. But with current crafting, I’m personally ok with it. Does save time, but honestly my grind for the patterns has gone down. Some guns just aren’t worth crafting or trials and the GMs have the guns I want. Personally the dungeons have been the most annoying thing in the game to farm 5/5 guns, but at least trials keeps that replayability for me. I wouldn’t really mind if they reworked crafting and removing enhanced perks, but I guess we’ll see Bungie ends up doing in the future
You cant fix Destiny 2 its too far gone..its an arcade shooter always was and always will be.
It will quite possibly limp on until D3.
If and thats if we ever get the game...
As for higher difficulty level apologies but thats just ludacris GM NF are already at 1840...so your plan is to artificially inflate content further locking the larger community out from decent seasonal weapons.
The game is now a hamster wheel and its not going to change
Thats not a fix thats a death note 🤦
I've been a strong believer of every gun being made craftable ever since D1. I've been hunting for an Osmosis/Demo Judgement for years now and after aprox 400 runs of prophecy I still haven't gotten the gun with those two perks together. I've given the time commitment I just copium grind Prophecy at this point because it's now sunk-cost fallacy. Having the gun be craftable would have meant I could have done something more fun in the same amount of time.
The more people do "not destiny", the more having "good enough" guns for PVP becomes valuable. Dust Rock Blues was an unobtainable gun for me simply due to the hours i put in never dropping a decent roll, and it felt bad to die in a shotgun duel simply because he had a gun with a farther oneshot distance.
This game needs a balancing patch so bad, because things like imperial decree outclasses astral horizon, so there's no incentive to grind for astral adept. Should there be crafted trials weapons? I'm thinking crafted raid weapons may be a mistake, but when i work a 9-5 making this game a part time job starts to feel tedious. Somewhere D2 lost the "Fun" for doing "chores" to get weapon drops. Am i wrong for feeling like the sense of wonder is gone, and just wanting the grind to end?
Warframe i can spend 15 hours on the weekend grinding stuff and feel like i'm making progress, because my weapons get stronger, i get new warframes and weapons, and things i can sell later. I do that in Destiny, and i get maybe 1 or two guns that are half decent?
TBH, i think that weapon crafting should have been "Reforging" our existing weapons, to eliminate some RNG (which i hear you can do on Raid Adepts, but i've not taken the time to learn anything about that system, i've not done master raids outside of VoG). Instead, we got a massive timesink that was not enjoyable to play, and that seems to be the pattern, time sink after time sink. And i no longer know if i want to stay on this train, not after buying expansions on two platforms for multiple years, and still seeing the grind.
I honestly hate the crafting system. I find mindlessly grinding pve for red borders to be far more excruciating than RNG ever was. Out of all the craftable weapons, I’ve bothered to make about 3 that are actually useful/fun for me, and I barely use them. My vault is permanently at 499 guns, and I have so many godrolls/goodrolls at this point that I’ve never even used once that it’s absolutely ridiculous. I’ve given up hunting for weapons altogether, and I’ve just been using whatever the hell sounds fun at the given moment. It’s made me enjoy the game a lot more.
I still think Crafting launched 1/4 baked. I still think Crafting guns should be about extracting perks off of random rolls of a given gun then leveling up the perks to be enhanced via kills while equipped. Or something like that anyway I'm not a dev, but the whole concept behind current crafting to me is intrinsically flawed.
I think that enhanced perks should've been exclusive to random rolls rather than crafted weapons. I see crafting working best as a way to get *almost* what you want, but if you want to min max you gotta grind RNG. That's just my opinion though, so it's objectively correct.
I haven't even crafted a handful of weapons. I can get close to a God role weapon and be happy with it. If I get a crafted weapon cool, it's not a big deal for me personally!!
There are way too many underlining issues with the game to fix this particular issue in isolation. For instance, another fact of the matter is, no matter how strong or powerful crafted weapons come in, I'm more than likely equipping an Exotic and building around it instead of the complimentary weapons. And if I need a workhorse weapon, an Exotic Primary is doing 40% more damage to a red bar than a Legendary.
I think we're too deep into crafted weapons to reverse a lot of the features it introduced. The game just needs to be better designed around it.
1. Every crafted weapon should require 100 of the same weapon to break down to craft. Red borders are boosters that add 10 to that progress bar.
2. More weapons should be craftable, but their lootpools need to be heavily reduced to 4 perks by 4 perks. That way, each weapon has a narrow lane it operates at, but it's unique. This is so Bungie can create more loot that may overlap archetypes, but doesn't have any of the same overlapping perk tables.
3. Adept weapons need to be fully craftable, just a higher investment to achieve (point number 1 helps this out a lot).
4. Deepsight Harmonizers need to be earnable from several end game activities, adding further incentives to playing those end game activities even if you have all of the loot from said activity. Drop rates can be fairly low, and the activities that carry it can rotate week to week.
5. There should be no need to level up crafted weapons before using it. You should be able to choose whatever perks you want as soon as you craft it. This will allow us to unlock crafted weapons, but also clear out vault space for the weapons we use all the time, and craft a weapon for an activity if it's outside our usual loot on hand. The only additional investment should be Enhanced Perks. That way, there's a reason to keeping certain ones auto-crafted, if it happens to be one of our favorites.
I remember being LL 400 (it was called Light Level once, and it didn't make a great impact gamewise, since the hardcap was 395) and wearing full raid-armor(with glows) going into the tower. It meant something because max level was only obtainable through raids and trails. And before that not being able to reach max level was what got me into raiding.
If enhanced perks were limited to master raids we'd get back that feeling. There is nothing like this in the game at the moment.
Crafted weapons are not the problem but they might be part of the solution. Maybe this is the only way to get some prestige back to this game.
As Nomad said, we need tiers before we get into something else. Great video, but where's the CAT!
The pain point that crafting was supposed to fix (rng hell) had a much simpler solution that I had been advocating for a long time; give us more damn loot per activity. Destiny 2 is an unusually stingy game compared to its contemporaries. Crafting itself would also get an overhaul; retain full crafting as we have it now for exotics, and "reduced" crafting for everything else, and add armor to the mix. Instead of fabricating weapons or armor ex nihilo, it lets you modify what you already have, allowing you to allocate armor stats as you please, restricted by the BST of the piece in question, or swapping out 1 barrel/mag, 1 perk, or your masterwork on your weapons. This way you still have a reason to chase good rolls, because it gives you a better floor for your crafting.
When you got that perfect roll and barely anyone else in the game had it, it made you feel special. It made it meaningful and valuable. If you've seen Across the Spider-Verse, Miles says you can have your cake and eat it if you bring two cakes. That only works in fiction. You can't. I am not telling you that you can't. This desolate cruel world is. It's vanilla destiny 2 with static rolls, but with extra steps. The chase and the rarity kept you coming back to grind for it because it reflected real life with consequences and meaning. Life's not fair, but then again this game isn't your life.
This is what happens when players want to turn Destiny2 into every other game. It's not an MMORPG and was never intended to be. It's a story driven game with PvP i.e. Crucible and Gambit mixed in. Bungie constantly trying to make it easier for newer players is fine, but how many resources are being wasted taking away from what made Destiny great. Turning it into just another MMO instead of improving the core parts of the game is a much bigger issue. What have been the 2 biggest complaints? No new PvP maps and the story has been mediocre at best. Bungie needs to get back to basics and stop trying to be all things to everyone.
I think it’s good for people that don’t have time to grind for a good role. I know in D1 it took me forever to get a perfect 1000 yard stare.
Probably one of the core issues is that Bungie may not know how valuable or powerful some perks are until they are let to run free once they drop. Some look good numerically but are underused because of contrivances like Golden Tricorn, and some seem pretty average like Frenzy but its simplicity and high uptime make it very potent, which would make perk pools hard to tier as you mentioned, in turn handing over powerful weapons for free and making some endgame weapons aggressively mediocre.
On another note, I wouldn't be mad if the current raid weapon system was swapped: Adept versions being fully craftable and customizable once unlocked, and regular weapons being mostly RNG dependent, then requiring investment to cut the rough edges on magazine and barrel once you drop your favorite perks