Glad I found your channel! The previous shade-tree loved their RTV. 😆 I hope I don't find this issue in my 996 I'm restoring on my channel. I have a M96 2nd gen 3-chain version though. Looking forward to more content.
My little chains looked the same at 110 000 km (69 000 miles). The seem to wear out quite quickly till the rollers of the chain start carrying the load agaist the sliders. It is not a fatal problem but it obviously affects timing. The big main slides of the IMS-Cam chain were like new. When you take them out you need to take the oil pump out. Be careful with the IMS when doing that: There must be no tension at the chains at both ends when taking the pump out. And actually, I still think the M96/01 is definitely a better engine than the M96/03. Both have their "characteristics" but the early M96/01 are the most reliable ones with the double row IMSB and coolant calibration by cylinder flow holes. In the 03-engine the 6th cylinder temperature problem is evident.
did your customer had any issues or complaints with the engine? like a erratic idle or something like that? my list with things i need to check if i drop the engine keeps growing! but thats what i like @ your content, very useful things you should take notice about! keep it up!
Great stuff. I just bought a 996.1 coupe 6spd for *very* cheap knowing the cam deviation specs are out of line. I'm showing 8.4 on bank 1 on a warm engine. Car is clean other than that. Looking forward to tearing into it and seeing how bad mine are. Car runs great, but I know it would be catastrophic if I let it go.
@@comedian376 Mine is measuring 10.63 on position 1 and 0.00 on position 2 with no engine light and it runs perfectly leading me to believe its a false reading.
@@samueldummler7307 If you have a reading of 0 on bank 2 you probably have a UK/EU car, no reading on bank 2 for these. You only get a cel when it is 12º out or more.
In your opinion, aside form the 2.7 magnesium block 74 - 77, would you say the M96 will got down in Porsche history as the their worst engine ever produced?
@@TopAutomotiveInc as much of a purist I am and gawk at the idea of a LS, Audi 2.7 or even a Honda K swapp, all those engines, well except for the Audi 2.7, are known to be bullitproof reliable. Even 2.7 Audi is more reliable than the M96 and it's from the same disfunctional family.
@@christopherfaeth9903 I bought a Durametric analyzer for Porsches. It is a special cable the plugs into the OBD port and a laptop. The diagnostic software let's you do just about anything with the ECUs in the car. You can diagnose most problems and reset parameters. It let's you monitor cam deviation values in a graph while you run the car.
Did I miss you stating the milage on this engine? That would help comparing the wear you are showing on the guides and pads..👍 Awesome videos.. thank you!😎
I've had one of these still running with one ramp pad completely gone! We check the oil filter every change looking for bits as well as checking the deviation.
@@TopAutomotiveInc Oh we fixed it. 12 degrees of deviation IIRC. Crazy. I'm not a big fan of the M96 engines. I too run a Porsche shop. I was amazed it was still running!
@@9jfd1 I said cheap plastic. My friends Toyota has 400000 kilometers om it and engine never been touched, Chain tensioners are also plastic, not cheap plastic like BMW or Porsche. I love Porsches by the way, I mean i like 911.
@@desmomotodesmomoto2033 My mazda 3 also has 460 000 on it, define plastic vs cheap plastic? Is it impregnated? Structural design difference, type of resin etc. You are comparing 2 different engines with different timing chain thicknesses and hydraulic ram designs. Explain specifically why Porsche's supplier is using 'cheap' plastic. I worked at Magna for many years as a design engineer and do not understand your comment, please kindly clarify materials differences
@@desmomotodesmomoto2033 it's not the cheap plastic rather incorrect, insufficient or infrequent oil changes resulting in higher friction and/or redlining these high performance M96 engines many 911 owners push the car past its limits. By the way, I have 280,000 km on my 996 base Carrera is the plastic chain tensioner garbage in my engine? Dont think so buddy, treat it well and it goes a long way noting always risks in automotive parts failing at infant mortality. Ignoring IMS it's a decent engine design
Yet here you are? Haha We are talking about highly strung sports cars, some of these are now over a quarter of a century old. Things need to be replaced, they don't last forever. I have a Toyota as a third car, super reliable, but seriously boring because it is so held back tuning wise from the factory. Different cars for different jobs.
It's a ram type hydraulic actuator / Single acting ram type cylinder. Feel free to call Porsche of Germany and make a complaint for calling them actuator ram pads in the manual.
@@TopAutomotiveInc First off, I appreciate the video. I don't want to take away from that. I didn't even want to respond but, Porsche calls them what they are - cylinders. And they do not call them "ram pads" they call them guides. German engineers in general aren't big on slang in technical descriptions. I didn't need to but I looked on the PET and my manual to be sure and ram is not mentioned anywhere related to these, so I am not sure where you're getting the idea Porsche calls them RAM PADS. But, I'm not trying to be a jerk even with your flippant response about calling Porsche and complaining. It's just a super basic terminology thing. Nobody on the technical side ever calls them "rams" - that's all I'm saying. And even if they did it doesn't make it appropriate, it's like I said, saying cog or something. People will know what you mean but kind of raise their eyebrows at the term. That's all. I'll leave it at that. Thanks for the vids, seriously. I appreciate that it takes effort to make the time to do them.
@@ericberns9274 No one is disputing that they are not cylinders. Visit the 2 links below explaining different types of cylinders including RAM TYPE and it's not a slang word like you stated. There are many different type of cylinder designs including, double rod, telescopic doubl action, "ram", piggyback, telescopic RAM, tandem etc. So we need to get our terminology from PET ( parts catalog)? Ok, let's dig in! A hydraulic cylinder for a 997 turbo spoiler system is called a "hinge" in PET, is this proper? Oil check valve is called a "cap". These are just a few and the list goes on. Porsche training manuals from a training facility in G.A are not the same terminology as PET. Here is a link explaining the differences right from the engineers. Hydraulic cylinders with large rods and no pistons are called rams. Telescoping ram-type cylinders are comprised of a series of nested rams. Except for the smallest stage, telescoping ram stages are hollow and serve as cylinder bodies for smaller stages. passionengineering.com/products/hydraulic-cylinders/cylinder-types www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/technologies/cylinders-actuators/article/21882647/engineering-essentials-cylinders&ved=2ahUKEwjyjrKdj5vxAhUQlKwKHWrnBXcQFjAHegQIFxAF&usg=AOvVaw26E2vrXocnOga0l8c9QmHh
What in the world do gears and cogs have to do with this? lol. The guy in the video is spot on, they are a ram design! Get educated first before being a wise guy. Maybe try to learn something from the video, Instead of trying to find something wrong or something to argue about for no freaking reason at all! You have zero videos but act like you know it all lol. Stop trolling dude! Let the rest of us enjoy!
Glad I found your channel! The previous shade-tree loved their RTV. 😆 I hope I don't find this issue in my 996 I'm restoring on my channel. I have a M96 2nd gen 3-chain version though. Looking forward to more content.
My little chains looked the same at 110 000 km (69 000 miles). The seem to wear out quite quickly till the rollers of the chain start carrying the load agaist the sliders. It is not a fatal problem but it obviously affects timing. The big main slides of the IMS-Cam chain were like new. When you take them out you need to take the oil pump out. Be careful with the IMS when doing that: There must be no tension at the chains at both ends when taking the pump out.
And actually, I still think the M96/01 is definitely a better engine than the M96/03. Both have their "characteristics" but the early M96/01 are the most reliable ones with the double row IMSB and coolant calibration by cylinder flow holes. In the 03-engine the 6th cylinder temperature problem is evident.
These chain tensioners were breaking up on my 996 - ended up getting a full engine rebuild!
did your customer had any issues or complaints with the engine?
like a erratic idle or something like that?
my list with things i need to check if i drop the engine keeps growing!
but thats what i like @ your content, very useful things you should take notice about!
keep it up!
Thank you.
This issue you will not have simptoms unitil its too late.
Love the content. Keep it up!
Great stuff. I just bought a 996.1 coupe 6spd for *very* cheap knowing the cam deviation specs are out of line. I'm showing 8.4 on bank 1 on a warm engine. Car is clean other than that. Looking forward to tearing into it and seeing how bad mine are. Car runs great, but I know it would be catastrophic if I let it go.
Any check engine light? Rough running?
@@SunSandAndSea Nope. No CEL, runs great. I've actually got the engine out now with bank 1 cam cover off. Just got done doing the IMSB
@@comedian376 Mine is measuring 10.63 on position 1 and 0.00 on position 2 with no engine light and it runs perfectly leading me to believe its a false reading.
@@samueldummler7307 If you have a reading of 0 on bank 2 you probably have a UK/EU car, no reading on bank 2 for these.
You only get a cel when it is 12º out or more.
@@GuyMiddletons UK car. Thanks mate
Can the cams be pulled and pads replaced with engine in car, or must it be dropped? I've heard it both ways...
In your opinion, aside form the 2.7 magnesium block 74 - 77, would you say the M96 will got down in Porsche history as the their worst engine ever produced?
Yes
@@TopAutomotiveInc as much of a purist I am and gawk at the idea of a LS, Audi 2.7 or even a Honda K swapp, all those engines, well except for the Audi 2.7, are known to be bullitproof reliable. Even 2.7 Audi is more reliable than the M96 and it's from the same disfunctional family.
The plastic guides are worn on my 99 996. I need to change them out soon. My max cam deviation is close to 6 degrees.
How do u know? How would I check
@@christopherfaeth9903 I bought a Durametric analyzer for Porsches. It is a special cable the plugs into the OBD port and a laptop. The diagnostic software let's you do just about anything with the ECUs in the car. You can diagnose most problems and reset parameters. It let's you monitor cam deviation values in a graph while you run the car.
Did I miss you stating the milage on this engine? That would help comparing the wear you are showing on the guides and pads..👍
Awesome videos.. thank you!😎
Great Stuff....Awaiting the timing procedure video..:)
Approx cost for this job?
What is the typical mileage that the chain pads would need to be replaced, assuming engine was well cared for, 5k oil changes, etc.
Time is what kills the plastic rams not just miles. Have your cam deviations checked
Wish you had more Vdo on this project
How long do those s plastic chain guides typically last. I have a 997.1 turbo 36K miles. Thx.
Were these pads and tensioners upgraded by Porsche at any point in later engines? If so, when? Thanks
Thanks! Very informative.
I've had one of these still running with one ramp pad completely gone! We check the oil filter every change looking for bits as well as checking the deviation.
It will self destruct I would not run it at all.
@@TopAutomotiveInc Oh we fixed it. 12 degrees of deviation IIRC. Crazy. I'm not a big fan of the M96 engines. I too run a Porsche shop. I was amazed it was still running!
@@billswim lucky!
This is auto-porn for me, thanks for sharing!
How reliable is this car besides the IMS bearing?
It will reliably empty your bank accounts 👌
So how do you test the hydraulic and decide if it needs replacement?
Also....what about the 3-chain engines. Any wear guides to worry about?
Thanks
I meant the hydraulic actuator in the question above
How many miles had this car covered?
Over 60k
Like BMW they use cheap plastic in these Porsche engines.
What engine doesn't use plastic ram pads these days?
@@9jfd1 I said cheap plastic. My friends Toyota has 400000 kilometers om it and engine never been touched, Chain tensioners are also plastic, not cheap plastic like BMW or Porsche. I love Porsches by the way, I mean i like 911.
@@desmomotodesmomoto2033 My mazda 3 also has 460 000 on it, define plastic vs cheap plastic? Is it impregnated? Structural design difference, type of resin etc. You are comparing 2 different engines with different timing chain thicknesses and hydraulic ram designs. Explain specifically why Porsche's supplier is using 'cheap' plastic. I worked at Magna for many years as a design engineer and do not understand your comment, please kindly clarify materials differences
@@9jfd1 Cheap garbage plastic that does not last long in the engine, cant stand the heat nor the friction, how hard it is to understand?
@@desmomotodesmomoto2033 it's not the cheap plastic rather incorrect, insufficient or infrequent oil changes resulting in higher friction and/or redlining these high performance M96 engines many 911 owners push the car past its limits. By the way, I have 280,000 km on my 996 base Carrera is the plastic chain tensioner garbage in my engine? Dont think so buddy, treat it well and it goes a long way noting always risks in automotive parts failing at infant mortality. Ignoring IMS it's a decent engine design
CRAZY HOW PORCHE IS SO EXPENSIVE BUT ALL I EVER SEE AND HEAR ARE PROBLEMS. PURE JUNK
Yet here you are? Haha
We are talking about highly strung sports cars, some of these are now over a quarter of a century old. Things need to be replaced, they don't last forever.
I have a Toyota as a third car, super reliable, but seriously boring because it is so held back tuning wise from the factory. Different cars for different jobs.
😱😱😱
Please don't call them "rams" - they are hydraulic cylinders. It's like calling sprockets "gears" or "cogs" or something.
It's a ram type hydraulic actuator / Single acting ram type cylinder.
Feel free to call Porsche of Germany and make a complaint for calling them actuator ram pads in the manual.
@@TopAutomotiveInc First off, I appreciate the video. I don't want to take away from that. I didn't even want to respond but, Porsche calls them what they are - cylinders. And they do not call them "ram pads" they call them guides. German engineers in general aren't big on slang in technical descriptions. I didn't need to but I looked on the PET and my manual to be sure and ram is not mentioned anywhere related to these, so I am not sure where you're getting the idea Porsche calls them RAM PADS. But, I'm not trying to be a jerk even with your flippant response about calling Porsche and complaining. It's just a super basic terminology thing. Nobody on the technical side ever calls them "rams" - that's all I'm saying. And even if they did it doesn't make it appropriate, it's like I said, saying cog or something. People will know what you mean but kind of raise their eyebrows at the term. That's all. I'll leave it at that. Thanks for the vids, seriously. I appreciate that it takes effort to make the time to do them.
@@ericberns9274 No one is disputing that they are not cylinders. Visit the 2 links below explaining different types of cylinders including RAM TYPE and it's not a slang word like you stated. There are many different type of cylinder designs including, double rod, telescopic doubl action, "ram", piggyback, telescopic RAM, tandem etc.
So we need to get our terminology from PET ( parts catalog)?
Ok, let's dig in! A hydraulic cylinder for a 997 turbo spoiler system is called a "hinge" in PET, is this proper? Oil check valve is called a "cap". These are just a few and the list goes on. Porsche training manuals from a training facility in G.A are not the same terminology as PET.
Here is a link explaining the differences right from the engineers.
Hydraulic cylinders with large rods and no pistons are called rams. Telescoping ram-type cylinders are comprised of a series of nested rams. Except for the smallest stage, telescoping ram stages are hollow and serve as cylinder bodies for smaller stages.
passionengineering.com/products/hydraulic-cylinders/cylinder-types
www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/technologies/cylinders-actuators/article/21882647/engineering-essentials-cylinders&ved=2ahUKEwjyjrKdj5vxAhUQlKwKHWrnBXcQFjAHegQIFxAF&usg=AOvVaw26E2vrXocnOga0l8c9QmHh
What in the world do gears and cogs have to do with this? lol. The guy in the video is spot on, they are a ram design! Get educated first before being a wise guy. Maybe try to learn something from the video, Instead of trying to find something wrong or something to argue about for no freaking reason at all! You have zero videos but act like you know it all lol. Stop trolling dude! Let the rest of us enjoy!
@@TopAutomotiveInc Good Job man, Love the content. You know your stuff!