I used to change my oil after every drive, now I tow an oil barrel and keep a bunch of filters in the back seat and change it every 25 miles on the side of the road just to be sure.
I really like the way the interviewer leads the speakers to keep the topic on tack AND reduces it to simple terms. Not all Porsche owners are engineers….
Here's my engineer 2 cents. The engine oil should be changed soon after adding any tank full of 'detergent or catalyst' cleaner simply because the product (could) potentially dilute and significantly compromise the lube oil.
That’s the rub. A lot of sellers, especially dealers don’t want to run the risk of letting someone take inventory, crack it open, snoop around, and put it back together. Why would you, especially if people are still clamoring to buy? They’ll just tell them no and sell to the person waiting in line. And if the car does come back with scoring (which I personally think most have to some degree) the dealer will at a minimum have to play dumb with the next buyer, or be honest and take a significant hit on their profit. I’ve also heard some shops don’t want to do it because it takes up valuable time and a lot of times it’s not bringing them any repeat business. A lot of these cars are bought long distance so the buyer coordinates the PPI with borescope, and either buys or doesn’t buy the car, but it’s not coming back to the shop.
There are places that will do this, and some that perhaps won't. However, the buyer is paying the shop for the time (and possibly an oil change), so if they're capable of pulling the sump and scoping the bore, then hopefully the shop will accept the money to do so. If the shop doesn't want to scope the bore for whatever reason, and if the buyer decides to forgo a bore scope, then the buyer needs to know they're rolling the dice. We recommend making sure the shop will pull the sump and scope the bores before taking the car there. If the seller has a recent oil analysis, that would clearly show if bore scoring is happening and is the ideal scenario. We'd recommend anybody who is planning to sell to do an oil analysis and have on hand for potential buyers.
@@PorscheClubofAmerica I agree 100%, I’ve just noticed on the forums a lot of buyers 1) are having a hard time getting the dealer to permit the sump plate to be dropped and 2) are having a hard time finding shops to do a bore scope from the sump. For what it’s worth, you can do it yourself with a $40 bore scope camera from Amazon and videos from Jake Raby. It is a dice roll though because it’s after the purchase.
Things I have learned to do: 1. Warm up engine to 190 deg oil temp before going over 4000 rpm. 2. Don’t take a lot of short hop trips without a longer drive here and there, get the oil temp up past 200 degrees to evaporate fuel in the oil. The old “Italian tune up” as much as you can manage. 3. Use better oil. I use Liqui-Moly which is premium full synthetic and has good amounts of the right additives. 4. Additives leach/ burn / evaporate out of the oil so change it once a year regardless of whether you reach prescribed oil change mileage interval and of course always change the filter too. It’s more the additives going away and contaminants building up, than the actual break down of the oil which demands oil changes
If you are running Liqui-Moly oils, you will still want to use their MoS2 or Ceratec additive to boost the moly levels which is needed to help protect the cylinder bores.
I use liquid moly the black additive in all my cars and trucks including old flat tappet cam small blocks . My Twin turbo f150 has 400,000 on the unopened enging and turbos of course oil gets changed every 5000 using quality filters and synthetic oil. I add molyslip or liquid moly to each oil change to my cars and trucks .Looking for a Porsche with bad engine to swap gm 4.8 or 5.3 and turbo charge next project
My Lexus is DFI and EFI at the same time and it has 200, 000+ miles in 6.5 years of ownership with no issues. My 997.2 C2S while reasonably reliable, has had its share of issues, water pump, High pressure fuel pump x2, high oil consumption, soot in the exhaust.
Assuming the 911 is only driven in warm temps - Why not use 5w 50 regardless if you have bore scoring or not, especially since it’s more protective than 0w40/5w40?
I always think I want a P-Car, but all I hear about is all the nightmare design issues with them.... my M104 Mercedes SL with iron block sound good too!
Although we recommend Driven oils, I know they can be hard to get in the UK. Millers 5w40 Nano would be another good choice to help protect against cylinder bore scoring for owners in the UK.
@@lnengineeringllc That's exactly what I have just put in my motor on the most recent service. Great to hear a further endorsement of Millers NT oil 😎👍🏻
I would think it is a good idea to install a oil pan warmer and engine block warmer? Here engine block warmers is pretty much standard equipment on all cars and they recommend to use it even in summer when colder then +15c or so to reduce wear and fuel consumption.
Yes, great series, but I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to tell me how common this issue is. I don't need hard statistics, just a general comment, maybe something like "the majority of these engines will be trouble-free, but ..... " or "almost all of these engines will eventually have some degree of scoring," or whatever the case It's a question that's never answered.
If you guys can come up with some sort of "Enthusiast" Scheduled Maintenance schedule for Bore Scoring, that would be nice. Maybe in an excel format OR PDF. also maybe a list the top 5 Oils for oil changes pending on severity of Bore Score. something more direct. But this is a good start. pleas keep it going.
For street cars, oil changes every 6 months or 5,000 miles. Driven DT40 or DI40, Liqui-Moly LM2040 w/ Ceratec, or Millers 5w40 Nano would all be good choices that will give you the added friction modifiers (moly) to help protect the cylinder walls. I personally run a bottle of Driven Injector Defender every other tank of fuel, but bare minimum you need to run a bottle of fuel additive containing PEA (polyetheramine) every 2-3k miles along with use of a Top Tier Fuel.
@@MasterOfNone88 For what it's worth, I've run Red Line 'High Performance' 5w40 in my 981 Cayman S (3.4L 9A1 engine) and the used oil analysis from Blackstone has shown the following Molybdenum levels (ppm) from the past four oil changes: 422, 534, 560, 474. Each oil service was performed on the one-year mark and each batch of oil had been in service for ~2,000 miles.
I'm the original owner of a 2002 996 C2 and this problem has cropped up on my car at just 72,000 miles. It is very sad and distressing because I am not located in the US and do not have access to LN or other builders. My only option is the Porsche dealer, so I am getting ready to take out a mortgage on my home to repair my beloved old friend =/
Don't be scared, they're great cars. The problem we're covering in this series can be thought of as premature bore scoring. This can happen to other Porsches not highlighted in this video, but the M96/M97 seems to be affected the most by the problem. This series is meant to help people become knowledgable about how best to maintain their M9X-engined Porsche and minimize the chance of bore scoring. Do the things Charles and Lake recommend in this video, and you are giving yourself the best chance to avoid the issue.
This will reduce the amount of iron for sure, but not to zero. It's important to cut the filter open so that you can evaluate the amount of ferrous debris. Would not be a bad idea to take photos so you can reference the photo at the next oil change.
This is honestly the most valuable video. Knowing your car is on it's way doesn't really do much of anything, but if you can slow it down that is what helps the most. And from another engine builder that interviewed many bore-scored owners and found that idling to warm the car up as a very common denominator among them. As far as fuels go: that was surprising. How do you find out what the "Top Tier" fuels are?
I run 2 stroke oil in the fuel at 200:1. This directly deposits oil on the cylinder walls. Probably not the best for the emissions system, but I’d rather deal with that than bore scoring. My concerns were initially related to EGR, but with ratio being lean and modern ash-less 2 stroke oil I’m less worried.
As a first time owner, I’ve used a product called Motorkote in the past with really great results. Project farm also did a video on it a few years ago. It basically leaves a very thin film on all surfaces. Project farm drained the oil out of a small engine, and it ran completely dry for a full 60 minutes, and it still didn’t blow up. I’m wondering if this would be a good long term solution for this issue, just adding some Motorkote into the oil every oil change
thanks for the information, but this is total insanity. theres probably only 1% of the owners of these cars following all these tips. im not arguing against doing these, but the fact we have to do all this stuff to look after our engines is a real shame.. im tempted to just get a 996 turbo or something and forget half this list and just enjoy the car. also tail pipe sooty a symptom? every car ive ever owned has had sooty tail pipes.. new Porsches from factory can burn lots of oil.. these symptoms are pretty common for a normal functioning car.
I noticed in this video series it only really mentions 98 - 2008 model porsches. I have a 2011 Cayman S, is it immune to the issue or is it just unlikely?
Do they talk about the scenario where you have stick piston ring and how to avoid it and if you have what to do as an example an engine flush…this could apply if less say you bought a used car without realizing it has cylinders scoring….
Great stuff men, my 2007 911/991.1 seems fine, get it checked by Porsche once a year., 70000 miles at the moment. I use the petrol additive at least twice a year, and dont idle as much these days. My UK petrol is 99 octane i assume this is ok? My question however is this! I've been told the 3.6 Carrera is a stronger block than the 3.8 S engine, is that true?? I also have two Subaru's by the way.. Just subscribed! pk 👍
Why not add oil stabilizer on every oil change to protect the cylinders and maybe use restore the oil additive every 50k or so as a protective measure and fuel additives and cleaners.
it would be nice to share why m1 engine (cayman mk2) is less likely have bore scoring issues. is it coating on cylinder block? or closed deck design or more oil pumping actuator or motor itself has been proven from ground up (design and execution to prevent bore scoring issue). By the way, I happens to found even 991 911 engine has a bore scoring issue as well.
Water pump on bank 1, water takes to long to get to bank 2, water around 10-15 degrees hotter then actually shown on gauge, people not even realizing their engine is cooking since 997, 987 do not even show proper temps. These are the main reasons for bore scoring. How to prevent it? Get a 996 or lower, since these are precisely showing water temps and drive accordingly to what the gauge is showing. And turn your AC on so the fans in front of the radiators are running no matter what.
The coolant temperature gauge on later cars doesn't report the true temperature either. By the time the gauge shows the engine is getting hot, it's actually much worse. Regularly removing the bumper cover to clean the radiators out and installing a low temperature is highly recommended on all models.
I live in Wisconsin and I put mine away in my climate controlled garage with brand new 5w40 redline oil... From time to time I start it when in storage, I even remove the fuel pump fuse if it spent too much time parked, before starting it. Anyways, my question is: How do I avoid having the car idling if I cannot drive it during winter? Is it better not to start it at all until spring? Thanks! great video!!
The worst part of idling is the heavy rich condition from the fuel system during warm up. On top of that the oil isn't circulating as well so the cylinder walls are getting a double wammy. Best thing in cold climates is to not start the engine and not let it idle til warm up. If you start the engine in cold climate you should immediately drive it and get a full heat cycle. Of course, keep rpms below 4k until oil warms up completely. This get oil moving through the engine quicker while also reducing the duration of the rich condition of the fuel system
The #1 solution is to “not buy a Porsche from 1999 to 2012. Buy either a classic air cooled 911 or a Honda Civic. $35K for a 911 engine rebuild is insane!! I really dodged a bullet w a potential 997.1 or 997.2 purchase. Yes even gen 2 scores. Stay away.
As someone who has always stuck to Mobile 1for my regular oil changes (once a year/about 3500 miles), should I be looking at alternatives? Just at the beginning of this video, so apologies if you answer it. Just wondering if I should get away from Mobile 1 in my 997.1 s. Great series by the way!!
We recommend Driven DT40 for 97-08 Boxster, Cayman, and 911 models. If you are in the UK, Millers Nano 5w40 would be suitable alternative to DT40. Last option would be to use the A40 approved Liqui-Moly LM2040 along with their Ceratec or MoS2 additive.
Very informative video - learned a lot. It also makes me shake my head and wonder why I put up with such issues with this brand, and why Porsche’s always seem to have such issues. BMW not much better, and in some cases worse. And with all the well to do suburbanites with Macans filling them at the local grocery store gas station how many of those are going to develop issues?
It's not isolated just to Porsche. Like you mentioned, BMW also have had similar issues as has Mercedes and other vehicle manufacturers. For sure we know fuel is a huge contributing factor as are the oils being used and longer drain intervals recommended by auto makers.
I hear you about sun zero temperature, how about -13F as this is what we have here in Quebec, Canada. What do you recommend ? Idle for 1 minutes and take off gently until engine is at full operating temperature ?
Charles and LN Engineering are in Chicago, so he lives the conditions you are talking about. He mentioned that if you need to give the car 20-30 seconds to get the fluids going before driving off, that's fine. For the cars health, ideally you'd want to drive off immediately, but that's just not possible to safely do in some places.
@@PorscheClubofAmerica thanks. Trust me montreal is much colder than chicago ;-) for reference What is the coldest month in Chicago? January January tends to be the coldest month, but also the snowiest month of the year. The temperatures reach between 26 °F and 36°F (-3 - 2 °C), with an average high of 31 °F (-1 °C) Compare this to Montreal The cold season lasts for 3.3 months, from December 4 to March 12. The coldest month of the year in Montréal is January, with an average low of 10°F We will never hit above 10F
@@brennersydney If you are not seeing below freezing cold starts, there are no special precautions to take. Just start the engine and start driving the car normally, taking care to keep the RPMs down and avoid wide open throttle until the engine coolant is fully up to temperature.
Ethanol free fuels such as REC 90 typically are formulated with the same additive levels as Top Tier Fuels, however occasional use of a fuel additive with polyetheramine still would not be a bad idea as a preventative measure.
The key here is gently and quickly. As was said in the video, start the car, drive off immediately, and no full-throttle, full-rpm until the engine is warmed up. I.e., drive it gently. If you start the car and let it sit to warm up, it will stay in cold start mode longer, dumping more fuel into the combustion chamber, washing lubrication off the bores. And the pistons, which still need to expand to their hot tolerances, move around in the bore longer as the engine slowly comes up to temp. This scenario is what contributes to bore scoring.
What they mean is to let the engine warm up not by sitting and idling at cold start (cause that’s when the engine runs rich and injects more fuel), and to instead warm it up by driving off right away and keeping it under 3K rpms until you see the engine temp hit around 200F. Then, you can rev it higher.
Sorry, still confused about driving off “immediately.” I’ve always thought that on my 991.1 it was better to wait until revs come down from ~1,100 rpm upon ignition on to ~700 rpms 30 -40 seconds later. Then I drive off but keep revs to
the best way to prevent bore scoring is to not buy an engine that will develop bore scoring.. no mater what you do. as the car reaches 100k miles it is gauranteed to have it.
I owned a 2001 996 911 for many years and drove it to to 125k miles. The guy who purchased it from me did a ppi and it had no signs of scoring. The car also burned no oil between changes. It is possible to prevent it from occurring if you take the proper precautions. The trick is getting an engine that has no scoring from the start because once it starts there's no way to stop it from progressing.
108,000 miles and just had clean borescope injection. Goons redlining cold engines and short shifting under load will score bores so you should probably buy that pushrod Chevy instead
When you see an increase in iron, aluminum, and silicon together, that's often the indicator of cylinder bore scoring. In this case, it's possible a cam cover or sump plate was re-sealed. It's common to see silicon leech into the oil from the sealant and will cause an increase in silicon levels alone.
I'm planning to soon buy my first 996.2 or 997.1.....but man id be lying if i did not say say that the Bore Scoring scares me. ..I think I would like to have maybe $6 -$9k aside incase i have to re-sleeve some bores. I'm already going to have about $1.5k aside for the IMS bearing retrofit.
Next question on 911 engines. On which side of the piston (upper or lower surface) do you see the most wear for the left side (cylinders 1, 2, 3) and right side (clyinders 4, 5, 6)?
as always very good. I was wondering how the "moly"oils are in roller cam engines& iron sleves etc, like the gm ecoteck lnf turbo 2.0 engines. will it help or not.
Moly does indeed help with friction and wear reduction and most engines can benefit from a fully formulated oil with moly. The only time you don't want to use an oil with moly is when the engine has been rebuilt as moly can interfere with break-in.
@@lnengineeringllc good,I wasent sure if the moly was compatable with turbos&needel bearings & rollers. and apparently it is much finer than the moly lube used for flat tapper breakin that can/does clog oil filters
Moly has been around for a long time. Why would Porsche severely limit its use in their A40 approved additive pack if it is known that it protects the engine? Are there other friction modifiers that they do allow in their add pack that they think makes up for it? What is the logic in not allowing it in their add pack if it’s so beneficial? And if C40 is better than A40 regardless of DI or Port Injection, why wouldn’t they recommended their older cars use C40?
Most engine oils don't have high levels of moly in them. It is up to boutique companies like Driven to develop oils that aren't constrained by API standards or manufacturer requirements.
@@charlesnavarro586 Thanks, I guess that was my question- why would Porsche restrict the use of Moly in its A40 spec if it is known that it is good for its engines unless there are other friction modifiers that do the same or better job? It’s not like Moly is expensive or new and it’s been around for a long time. A40 seem very stringent per below. So a boutique oil beats this? - A40 testing procedure: This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through: - 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving, - 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving, - 40 cold starts, - 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack, - 3.5 hours of “running-in” program Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter will be taken into account to grant the approval or not: - torque curve (internal friction), - oxidation of the oil, - Piston cleanliness and ring sticking, - Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 μm. - Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible. - Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method.
@@carreralicious First, oils with the A40 standard do not have to go through the testing process. As long as the oil manufacturer uses the approved recipe, there is no testing requirement. Any modifications to the recipe disqualifies any oil from carrying the A40 standard. Likewise, you won't find any mass produced oils with high levels of moly as the "off the shelf" additive packages offered by Lubrizol and Afton, just to name a few, do not have this. Lastly, the A40 test sequence doesn't address the Al-Si cylinder system. It's hard to argue with the dozens of used oil analysis reports shared by owners on the forums who have since switched from an A40 oil to Driven DT40 (or DI40) which show a vast improvement in wear levels and viscosity retention. I hope this helps clear things up.
Liquid moly is what my cars get and frequent oil changes . Non of my cars or trucks use oil or have had timing chain problems my daily drivers 400000km on them and never been apart .Also warm up the engine before reving them some owners rev there engines cold to impress the crowds very hard on engines .
If I understand this correctly you're recommending a non approved Porsche motor oil that has a higher level of moly! I understand the rational; however this begs a question: If I follow this recommendation on a brand new Porsche and use non approved Porsche oil and have bore scoring before my new car warranty expires, will Porsche honor the warranty? Will Porsche say you're not using Porsche approved oil; therefore, the engine repair will not be covered? Inquiring minds would like to know!
If the vehicle is under warranty, we still recommend using a factory approved oil, however you should shorten the oil change interval to no more than 6 months or 5,000 miles. That's the best thing you can do while not having to worry about having any warranty issues.
@@lnengineeringllc Thanks for the response.! For reasons I do not understand Porsche and other vehicle manufactures have extended their recommended oil change intervals to 10,000 miles or one year. Personally, I've disagreed with the recommendations from day one. For my cars I change oil every 5000 miles and sometimes sooner depending on how hard I run a car and seasonal condition. Oil filters and oil are very, very cheap compared to the cost of a smoked motor. Your suggestions on how to warm up the motor is excellent as it mitigates many problems. Great series on bore scoring and if I every need an R&R your company is at the top of my list. Cheers
Driven DT40 or DI40 have high levels of Moly. Millers Nano 5w40 also has elevated levels of Moly and is a great choice for those in Europe that might not have access to Driven products.
@@lnengineeringllc i think we do not have this kind of oil in Philippines we only have Motul, Mobile, and other known brand like shell or others. Any chance you can guide me to a concentrate moly oil addetives so will just buy that then add to our every year of oil fill.
Another question please: what's your take on shops claiming 10w60 oils? I hear mostly 5 or 10w40, but some professionals claims to go even higher. I know Moly in the oil is more important than ZDDP, but then should we consider for exemple que Liqui Moly 10w60 + Ceratec? Thanks!
@@sylvainniset7249 A 10w60 is likely going to be too thick. A properly formulated 5w40 should be more than sufficient, however a 5w50 would be acceptable for hotter climates as there have been oils with that viscosity on the Porsche approved list in the past.
Top Tier fuels have better additive packages and overall are much, much better quality than those that meet the Lowest Additive Concentration (LAC). Go here to read more: www.toptiergas.com/ The site also has a Top Tier station finder.
Hi thanks for the very informative video, one thing I live in the U.K (so not the best weather, but not super cold either!) and own and love my 987.1s. (3.4l) I clean the injectors by adding "Redex" ( not sure of its P.E.A. content?) & I use Mobil 1 0w40. The cars done 80k miles and no signs yet of bore score, but not properly tested? So if I wanted to make sure I am doing my best to prevent this, what would u advise? Do I need the Driven DT40 and maybe a change of fuel additive and if so what would you recommend please? Thankyou guys so much I am scared of this ever happening, but really want to keep the car.
A quick google search shows that Redex does not use polyetheramine (PEA). An employee at the PCA National Office did an oil analysis after 5,000 miles using Mobil1 0w40 and Driven DT40 5w40 in his 2007 base Cayman (this oil sample is used a few times in this series), and the Mobil1 had much less moly in it than the Driven DT40. If you want PEA in your fuel additive, Driven Injector Defender has it. But there are surely other options in the UK that have PEA, perhaps a google search will turn some up. We recommend getting an oil analysis to determine the health of your engine. Speediagnostix is one company that has tons of experience with these engines.
If you cannot get access to Driven DT40, Millers 5w40 Nano would be a good alternative. If you check the MSDS for the fuel additive, it should list whether or not the additive has polyetheramine (PEA).
Great content....... can I just implement all the suggestions before I ever have the problem? Is there any downside to what you recommend other than sacrificing a little Fuel Economy and maybe some incremental cost?
Probably could. You could definitely run top tier, add injector cleaner, reduce oil change intervals to 5K miles, and do proper warm ups. I’d probably save the thicker oil until after you have verified scoring. Do used oil analysis and when the readings trend in the wrong direction scope it. If you confirm scoring then switch to the high temp high viscosity oil. Just my $0.02.
The thing seems to be that the problems/scoring starts showing up as the models age. The 997.2 were “safe” until a few years ago and now we’re starting to see some here and there. Although the mode of action is different. Not to be a fear mongerer, but only the future will tell. I do agree with you tho, if it’s possible, just go for the 9A1 engine.
@@K1dPhresh1 the 991.2 is far superior to the 997.1 and better than the 997.2. I’ve had a 997.1 and 997.2 C4S with manual. The only thing better in the 997 is the exhaust note. That’s it. My 991.2 has PDCC, SPASM and RAS. The 997 didn’t have any of that
@@robertsole9970 it should be, it’s the newer car. The engines are definitely better. Far less issues. Other than the rare bore scoring, I’ve heard the main thing to worry about is the HPFPs in the 9A1s.
I used to change my oil after every drive, now I tow an oil barrel and keep a bunch of filters in the back seat and change it every 25 miles on the side of the road just to be sure.
With the proper amount of zinc!
Only every 25 miles? You sound like a maverick with that amount of risk taking.
That is almost what the service handbook for my KTM 500 dirtbike wants me to do for real ...
I really like the way the interviewer leads the speakers to keep the topic on tack AND reduces it to simple terms. Not all Porsche owners are engineers….
Thank you for your comment. It certainly is our intention to break these topics down into terms all can learn.
Here's my engineer 2 cents. The engine oil should be changed soon after adding any tank full of 'detergent or catalyst' cleaner simply because the product (could) potentially dilute and significantly compromise the lube oil.
Explain??
Finally a video that wasn’t depressing as shit! Thank you for all of the tips
Thanks for watching!
What PPI place is going to do a bore scope through the sump, and what seller would allow it?
That’s the rub. A lot of sellers, especially dealers don’t want to run the risk of letting someone take inventory, crack it open, snoop around, and put it back together. Why would you, especially if people are still clamoring to buy? They’ll just tell them no and sell to the person waiting in line. And if the car does come back with scoring (which I personally think most have to some degree) the dealer will at a minimum have to play dumb with the next buyer, or be honest and take a significant hit on their profit. I’ve also heard some shops don’t want to do it because it takes up valuable time and a lot of times it’s not bringing them any repeat business. A lot of these cars are bought long distance so the buyer coordinates the PPI with borescope, and either buys or doesn’t buy the car, but it’s not coming back to the shop.
There are places that will do this, and some that perhaps won't. However, the buyer is paying the shop for the time (and possibly an oil change), so if they're capable of pulling the sump and scoping the bore, then hopefully the shop will accept the money to do so. If the shop doesn't want to scope the bore for whatever reason, and if the buyer decides to forgo a bore scope, then the buyer needs to know they're rolling the dice. We recommend making sure the shop will pull the sump and scope the bores before taking the car there. If the seller has a recent oil analysis, that would clearly show if bore scoring is happening and is the ideal scenario. We'd recommend anybody who is planning to sell to do an oil analysis and have on hand for potential buyers.
@@PorscheClubofAmerica I agree 100%, I’ve just noticed on the forums a lot of buyers 1) are having a hard time getting the dealer to permit the sump plate to be dropped and 2) are having a hard time finding shops to do a bore scope from the sump. For what it’s worth, you can do it yourself with a $40 bore scope camera from Amazon and videos from Jake Raby. It is a dice roll though because it’s after the purchase.
I got it done - and the seller paid for the bore scope
Things I have learned to do:
1. Warm up engine to 190 deg oil temp before going over 4000 rpm.
2. Don’t take a lot of short hop trips without a longer drive here and there, get the oil temp up past 200 degrees to evaporate fuel in the oil. The old “Italian tune up” as much as you can manage.
3. Use better oil. I use Liqui-Moly which is premium full synthetic and has good amounts of the right additives.
4. Additives leach/ burn / evaporate out of the oil so change it once a year regardless of whether you reach prescribed oil change mileage interval and of course always change the filter too. It’s more the additives going away and contaminants building up, than the actual break down of the oil which demands oil changes
Thanks for sharing!
I do all of the same except I keep it under 3000 rpm’s. Well, and use Driven oils versus Liquid Moly.
If you are running Liqui-Moly oils, you will still want to use their MoS2 or Ceratec additive to boost the moly levels which is needed to help protect the cylinder bores.
In resume good gas, good oil, good maintenance, perfect
I use liquid moly the black additive in all my cars and trucks including old flat tappet cam small blocks . My Twin turbo f150 has 400,000 on the unopened enging and turbos of course oil gets changed every 5000 using quality filters and synthetic oil. I add molyslip or liquid moly to each oil change to my cars and trucks .Looking for a Porsche with bad engine to swap gm 4.8 or 5.3 and turbo charge next project
My Lexus is DFI and EFI at the same time and it has 200, 000+ miles in 6.5 years of ownership with no issues. My 997.2 C2S while reasonably reliable, has had its share of issues, water pump, High pressure fuel pump x2, high oil consumption, soot in the exhaust.
Damn this series is amazing, I've learned so much.
Assuming the 911 is only driven in warm temps - Why not use 5w 50 regardless if you have bore scoring or not, especially since it’s more protective than 0w40/5w40?
Then you f..k up the variable timing gear and all internal seals
Add high quality 2 stroke oil at 40:1 ratio to your petrol.
Great videos. I’d really enjoy some videos focussed on the latest engines (9a2 etc) and what we should be doing to look after them.
Thanks for the idea!
Excellent content. Glad I own an iron block Toyota and don't have to worry about any of this.
I always think I want a P-Car, but all I hear about is all the nightmare design issues with them.... my M104 Mercedes SL with iron block sound good too!
Fabulous content - thanks 👍🏻
U.K. 🇬🇧 997.1 owners say thanks 😊👍🏻
Thanks for watching and be sure to share with others in UK!
Although we recommend Driven oils, I know they can be hard to get in the UK. Millers 5w40 Nano would be another good choice to help protect against cylinder bore scoring for owners in the UK.
@@lnengineeringllc
That's exactly what I have just put in my motor on the most recent service. Great to hear a further endorsement of Millers NT oil 😎👍🏻
So…. are Mark and Lake allowed in the same room at the same time? 🤔
Love their enthusiasm and “noob-level” explanations.
Great series!
Glad you are enjoying it Mike.
I would think it is a good idea to install a oil pan warmer and engine block warmer? Here engine block warmers is pretty much standard equipment on all cars and they recommend to use it even in summer when colder then +15c or so to reduce wear and fuel consumption.
Yes, great series, but I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to tell me how common this issue is. I don't need hard statistics, just a general comment, maybe something like "the majority of these engines will be trouble-free, but ..... " or "almost all of these engines will eventually have some degree of scoring," or whatever the case It's a question that's never answered.
I don't own a porsche (yet), was concerned about this issue. I learned a ton about engines from these videos. Thanks!
Glad to help
what is top gear fuel, I stay in South Africa, thanks very informative. My Cayman has got 38000km, bought in 2006 new, must I start worrying?
If you guys can come up with some sort of "Enthusiast" Scheduled Maintenance schedule for Bore Scoring, that would be nice.
Maybe in an excel format OR PDF.
also maybe a list the top 5 Oils for oil changes pending on severity of Bore Score. something more direct.
But this is a good start. pleas keep it going.
Great idea!
For street cars, oil changes every 6 months or 5,000 miles. Driven DT40 or DI40, Liqui-Moly LM2040 w/ Ceratec, or Millers 5w40 Nano would all be good choices that will give you the added friction modifiers (moly) to help protect the cylinder walls.
I personally run a bottle of Driven Injector Defender every other tank of fuel, but bare minimum you need to run a bottle of fuel additive containing PEA (polyetheramine) every 2-3k miles along with use of a Top Tier Fuel.
@@lnengineeringllc oh Snap. Well yeah. This is what I had in mind. LOL. Thanks a lot. Looking to get a 996.2 or 997.1 soon.
@@MasterOfNone88 For what it's worth, I've run Red Line 'High Performance' 5w40 in my 981 Cayman S (3.4L 9A1 engine) and the used oil analysis from Blackstone has shown the following Molybdenum levels (ppm) from the past four oil changes: 422, 534, 560, 474. Each oil service was performed on the one-year mark and each batch of oil had been in service for ~2,000 miles.
@@faust451 Thank you !! yes something like this helps.
Why only bank 2 cyl 5-6 are the ones to go if regular fuel is the cause for scoring and not all of them?
I'm the original owner of a 2002 996 C2 and this problem has cropped up on my car at just 72,000 miles. It is very sad and distressing because I am not located in the US and do not have access to LN or other builders. My only option is the Porsche dealer, so I am getting ready to take out a mortgage on my home to repair my beloved old friend =/
Hartech?
Very interesting series... now I am scared of the M96 cars, should I be... is bore scoring inevitable on all M96's ?
Don't be scared, they're great cars. The problem we're covering in this series can be thought of as premature bore scoring. This can happen to other Porsches not highlighted in this video, but the M96/M97 seems to be affected the most by the problem. This series is meant to help people become knowledgable about how best to maintain their M9X-engined Porsche and minimize the chance of bore scoring. Do the things Charles and Lake recommend in this video, and you are giving yourself the best chance to avoid the issue.
What about adding a small amount of 2 cycle oil to the fuel? Very light mix like 640:1. Wouldn’t that help lube the cylinders on cold start?
Yes, or lucas fuel conditioner.
@@Aceman597I have been doing that so far this winter for the 987.1S along with stabil 360 and I think it runs better and smokes less.
If you use magnets on your filter and drain plug, does this practice cause no iron showing up in oil sample?
This will reduce the amount of iron for sure, but not to zero. It's important to cut the filter open so that you can evaluate the amount of ferrous debris. Would not be a bad idea to take photos so you can reference the photo at the next oil change.
This is honestly the most valuable video. Knowing your car is on it's way doesn't really do much of anything, but if you can slow it down that is what helps the most.
And from another engine builder that interviewed many bore-scored owners and found that idling to warm the car up as a very common denominator among them.
As far as fuels go: that was surprising. How do you find out what the "Top Tier" fuels are?
Glad you learned from this! This website is where you can go, and they also have a Top Tier station finder: www.toptiergas.com/
I run 2 stroke oil in the fuel at 200:1. This directly deposits oil on the cylinder walls.
Probably not the best for the emissions system, but I’d rather deal with that than bore scoring.
My concerns were initially related to EGR, but with ratio being lean and modern ash-less 2 stroke oil I’m less worried.
As a first time owner, I’ve used a product called Motorkote in the past with really great results. Project farm also did a video on it a few years ago. It basically leaves a very thin film on all surfaces. Project farm drained the oil out of a small engine, and it ran completely dry for a full 60 minutes, and it still didn’t blow up. I’m wondering if this would be a good long term solution for this issue, just adding some Motorkote into the oil every oil change
thanks for the information, but this is total insanity. theres probably only 1% of the owners of these cars following all these tips. im not arguing against doing these, but the fact we have to do all this stuff to look after our engines is a real shame.. im tempted to just get a 996 turbo or something and forget half this list and just enjoy the car.
also tail pipe sooty a symptom? every car ive ever owned has had sooty tail pipes.. new Porsches from factory can burn lots of oil.. these symptoms are pretty common for a normal functioning car.
Fear sells and it’s keeps prices down. Stop worrying, the most usual result will be, you drive this car 250k km without issues.
What are your thoughts on Marvel’s Mystery oil as an additive for the 997 (.1 or .2)
Great video but l think l will go and buy a Porsche.2 instead less hassle. I won’t to keep my dream car a dream 😂👊🏽
I noticed in this video series it only really mentions 98 - 2008 model porsches. I have a 2011 Cayman S, is it immune to the issue or is it just unlikely?
Do they talk about the scenario where you have stick piston ring and how to avoid it and if you have what to do as an example an engine flush…this could apply if less say you bought a used car without realizing it has cylinders scoring….
Great stuff men, my 2007 911/991.1 seems fine, get it checked by Porsche once a year., 70000 miles at the moment.
I use the petrol additive at least twice a year, and dont idle as much these days.
My UK petrol is 99 octane i assume this is ok?
My question however is this!
I've been told the 3.6 Carrera is a stronger block than the 3.8 S engine, is that true??
I also have two Subaru's by the way..
Just subscribed!
pk 👍
Combustion chamber cleaner is important for GDI engines.
Oooo do not idle car. Damn i learned alot iv'e been idling till warm for years
Why not add oil stabilizer on every oil change to protect the cylinders and maybe use restore the oil additive every 50k or so as a protective measure and fuel additives and cleaners.
Would a moly oil be recommended for other types of engines? Is it useful for iron block for sleeved cylinders?
it would be nice to share why m1 engine (cayman mk2) is less likely have bore scoring issues. is it coating on cylinder block? or closed deck design or more oil pumping actuator or motor itself has been proven from ground up (design and execution to prevent bore scoring issue). By the way, I happens to found even 991 911 engine has a bore scoring issue as well.
Lucas fuel cleaner lubricates and cleans. Maybe another option. Berrymans may clean up faster but could be harsh.
Again a great and extremely informative video, I am learning so much thanks to you.
Glad to hear it!
what if you start your engine in -25C weather? start driving or warm it up for a minute?
What would you guys recommend for a 06 porsche cayenne turbo? Love the content!
Water pump on bank 1, water takes to long to get to bank 2, water around 10-15 degrees hotter then actually shown on gauge, people not even realizing their engine is cooking since 997, 987 do not even show proper temps. These are the main reasons for bore scoring. How to prevent it? Get a 996 or lower, since these are precisely showing water temps and drive accordingly to what the gauge is showing. And turn your AC on so the fans in front of the radiators are running no matter what.
The coolant temperature gauge on later cars doesn't report the true temperature either. By the time the gauge shows the engine is getting hot, it's actually much worse. Regularly removing the bumper cover to clean the radiators out and installing a low temperature is highly recommended on all models.
@@lnengineeringllc By later cars you mean 2002
I live in Wisconsin and I put mine away in my climate controlled garage with brand new 5w40 redline oil... From time to time I start it when in storage, I even remove the fuel pump fuse if it spent too much time parked, before starting it. Anyways, my question is: How do I avoid having the car idling if I cannot drive it during winter? Is it better not to start it at all until spring?
Thanks! great video!!
The worst part of idling is the heavy rich condition from the fuel system during warm up. On top of that the oil isn't circulating as well so the cylinder walls are getting a double wammy.
Best thing in cold climates is to not start the engine and not let it idle til warm up. If you start the engine in cold climate you should immediately drive it and get a full heat cycle. Of course, keep rpms below 4k until oil warms up completely. This get oil moving through the engine quicker while also reducing the duration of the rich condition of the fuel system
What is the standard test for under-functioning fuel injectors on a Porsche?
The #1 solution is to “not buy a Porsche from 1999 to 2012. Buy either a classic air cooled 911 or a Honda Civic. $35K for a 911 engine rebuild is insane!! I really dodged a bullet w a potential 997.1 or 997.2 purchase. Yes even gen 2 scores. Stay away.
What qualifies as "top teer" premium fuel? Chevron, Exxon, BP, Shell....?
www.toptiergas.com
As someone who has always stuck to Mobile 1for my regular oil changes (once a year/about 3500 miles), should I be looking at alternatives? Just at the beginning of this video, so apologies if you answer it. Just wondering if I should get away from Mobile 1 in my 997.1 s. Great series by the way!!
We recommend Driven DT40 for 97-08 Boxster, Cayman, and 911 models. If you are in the UK, Millers Nano 5w40 would be suitable alternative to DT40. Last option would be to use the A40 approved Liqui-Moly LM2040 along with their Ceratec or MoS2 additive.
Very informative video - learned a lot. It also makes me shake my head and wonder why I put up with such issues with this brand, and why Porsche’s always seem to have such issues. BMW not much better, and in some cases worse. And with all the well to do suburbanites with Macans filling them at the local grocery store gas station how many of those are going to develop issues?
It's not isolated just to Porsche. Like you mentioned, BMW also have had similar issues as has Mercedes and other vehicle manufacturers. For sure we know fuel is a huge contributing factor as are the oils being used and longer drain intervals recommended by auto makers.
Top tier advice 👍
Thanks for watching!
I hear you about sun zero temperature, how about -13F as this is what we have here in Quebec, Canada. What do you recommend ? Idle for 1 minutes and take off gently until engine is at full operating temperature ?
Charles and LN Engineering are in Chicago, so he lives the conditions you are talking about. He mentioned that if you need to give the car 20-30 seconds to get the fluids going before driving off, that's fine. For the cars health, ideally you'd want to drive off immediately, but that's just not possible to safely do in some places.
@@PorscheClubofAmerica thanks. Trust me montreal is much colder than chicago ;-) for reference What is the coldest month in Chicago?
January
January tends to be the coldest month, but also the snowiest month of the year. The temperatures reach between 26 °F and 36°F (-3 - 2 °C), with an average high of 31 °F (-1 °C)
Compare this to Montreal
The cold season lasts for 3.3 months, from December 4 to March 12. The coldest month of the year in Montréal is January, with an average low of 10°F
We will never hit above 10F
I would recommend against idling the engine any longer than it takes for the engine to come off initial high idle.
@@lnengineeringllc exactly what I do which is in deep winter exactly that 45s to 60s
@@brennersydney If you are not seeing below freezing cold starts, there are no special precautions to take. Just start the engine and start driving the car normally, taking care to keep the RPMs down and avoid wide open throttle until the engine coolant is fully up to temperature.
Did I hear them recommend a non Porsche spec oil?
Question related to the Top Tier premium vs LAC premium discussion: What about ethanol-free vs ethanol added fuels?
Ethanol free fuels such as REC 90 typically are formulated with the same additive levels as Top Tier Fuels, however occasional use of a fuel additive with polyetheramine still would not be a bad idea as a preventative measure.
How about other brands of car, that are using direct injectors, are having signs of higher bore wear at the area opposite of the injectors?.
Although not an issue with Porsche engines, there are discussions that injector angle can and does affect direct injected engines.
It's really is confusing when They say, cold start let the engine warm up gradually, then says you don't want to idle the car at cold starts.
I was thinking the same thing. It would seem the most gentle way to warm up the engine would be to idle it until warm. But they say it's the worst.
The key here is gently and quickly. As was said in the video, start the car, drive off immediately, and no full-throttle, full-rpm until the engine is warmed up. I.e., drive it gently. If you start the car and let it sit to warm up, it will stay in cold start mode longer, dumping more fuel into the combustion chamber, washing lubrication off the bores. And the pistons, which still need to expand to their hot tolerances, move around in the bore longer as the engine slowly comes up to temp. This scenario is what contributes to bore scoring.
What they mean is to let the engine warm up not by sitting and idling at cold start (cause that’s when the engine runs rich and injects more fuel), and to instead warm it up by driving off right away and keeping it under 3K rpms until you see the engine temp hit around 200F. Then, you can rev it higher.
Thanks for the simple terms...quickly and gently makes sense. I'm not in cold climate but good practices are good practices.
Sorry, still confused about driving off “immediately.” I’ve always thought that on my 991.1 it was better to wait until revs come down from ~1,100 rpm upon ignition on to ~700 rpms 30 -40 seconds later. Then I drive off but keep revs to
Really good video. Thank you.
Who the heck would tear apart the engine for a pre inspection?
They use a bore scope from the bottom to check the bottom of the cylinder bores for scoring. I think I saw a real solution in a science fiction movie.
the best way to prevent bore scoring is to not buy an engine that will develop bore scoring.. no mater what you do. as the car reaches 100k miles it is gauranteed to have it.
I'm out😢 I wanted to always buy a Porsche but.. I just cannot knowing it's going to happen no matter what
Buy one with a bad engine cheap and ls swap it
I owned a 2001 996 911 for many years and drove it to to 125k miles. The guy who purchased it from me did a ppi and it had no signs of scoring. The car also burned no oil between changes. It is possible to prevent it from occurring if you take the proper precautions. The trick is getting an engine that has no scoring from the start because once it starts there's no way to stop it from progressing.
108,000 miles and just had clean borescope injection. Goons redlining cold engines and short shifting under load will score bores so you should probably buy that pushrod Chevy instead
@@nicholasking4676You'd be trading a used engine for a used engine.
Did you mention, which stations sell top tier premium vs stations that sell non top tier, how do we know which is which ?
Check out www.toptiergas.com
Great series - looking forward to #4.
Coming soon!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! Beyond informative and easy to understand. You've saved many owners a costly rebuild.
Glad you found it helpful.
1:47 why is it you see 13 for Silicon when using the Driven DT40 that LN claims to be better due to the high moly content when compared to Mobil 1?
When you see an increase in iron, aluminum, and silicon together, that's often the indicator of cylinder bore scoring. In this case, it's possible a cam cover or sump plate was re-sealed. It's common to see silicon leech into the oil from the sealant and will cause an increase in silicon levels alone.
@@lnengineeringllc Silicon and silicone are two different chemicals.
Wow! These videos are so good!
Glad you like them!
I'm planning to soon buy my first 996.2 or 997.1.....but man id be lying if i did not say say that the Bore Scoring scares me. ..I think I would like to have maybe $6 -$9k aside incase i have to re-sleeve some bores. I'm already going to have about $1.5k aside for the IMS bearing retrofit.
We hope this series helps you get the "right" 996.2 or 997.1. Good luck with your hunt.
No IMS issues after 2005....and after that go with non 'S' Boxster or Cayman motors 2006 and fwd cuz these don't 'score'.....
Next question on 911 engines. On which side of the piston (upper or lower surface) do you see the most wear for the left side (cylinders 1, 2, 3) and right side (clyinders 4, 5, 6)?
Cylinders 4 through 6 (Bank 2) most always score first. We rarely see scoring on bank 1.
@@lnengineeringllc Meaning what part of the piston? Not which piston(s).
as always very good. I was wondering how the "moly"oils are in roller cam engines& iron sleves etc, like the gm ecoteck lnf turbo 2.0 engines. will it help or not.
Moly does indeed help with friction and wear reduction and most engines can benefit from a fully formulated oil with moly. The only time you don't want to use an oil with moly is when the engine has been rebuilt as moly can interfere with break-in.
@@lnengineeringllc good,I wasent sure if the moly was compatable with turbos&needel bearings & rollers. and apparently it is much finer than the moly lube used for flat tapper breakin that can/does clog oil filters
Moly has been around for a long time. Why would Porsche severely limit its use in their A40 approved additive pack if it is known that it protects the engine? Are there other friction modifiers that they do allow in their add pack that they think makes up for it? What is the logic in not allowing it in their add pack if it’s so beneficial?
And if C40 is better than A40 regardless of DI or Port Injection, why wouldn’t they recommended their older cars use C40?
Most engine oils don't have high levels of moly in them. It is up to boutique companies like Driven to develop oils that aren't constrained by API standards or manufacturer requirements.
@@charlesnavarro586 Thanks, I guess that was my question- why would Porsche restrict the use of Moly in its A40 spec if it is known that it is good for its engines unless there are other friction modifiers that do the same or better job? It’s not like Moly is expensive or new and it’s been around for a long time. A40 seem very stringent per below. So a boutique oil beats this? - A40 testing procedure: This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through: - 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving, - 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving, - 40 cold starts, - 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack, - 3.5 hours of “running-in” program Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter will be taken into account to grant the approval or not: - torque curve (internal friction), - oxidation of the oil, - Piston cleanliness and ring sticking, - Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 μm. - Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible. - Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method.
@@carreralicious First, oils with the A40 standard do not have to go through the testing process. As long as the oil manufacturer uses the approved recipe, there is no testing requirement. Any modifications to the recipe disqualifies any oil from carrying the A40 standard. Likewise, you won't find any mass produced oils with high levels of moly as the "off the shelf" additive packages offered by Lubrizol and Afton, just to name a few, do not have this. Lastly, the A40 test sequence doesn't address the Al-Si cylinder system. It's hard to argue with the dozens of used oil analysis reports shared by owners on the forums who have since switched from an A40 oil to Driven DT40 (or DI40) which show a vast improvement in wear levels and viscosity retention. I hope this helps clear things up.
Liquid moly is what my cars get and frequent oil changes . Non of my cars or trucks use oil or have had timing chain problems my daily drivers 400000km on them and never been apart .Also warm up the engine before reving them some owners rev there engines cold to impress the crowds very hard on engines .
If I understand this correctly you're recommending a non approved Porsche motor oil that has a higher level of moly! I understand the rational; however this begs a question: If I follow this recommendation on a brand new Porsche and use non approved Porsche oil and have bore scoring before my new car warranty expires, will Porsche honor the warranty? Will Porsche say you're not using Porsche approved oil; therefore, the engine repair will not be covered? Inquiring minds would like to know!
Good question. We'll attempt to get an answer for you.
@@PorscheClubofAmerica thanks for the response!
If the vehicle is under warranty, we still recommend using a factory approved oil, however you should shorten the oil change interval to no more than 6 months or 5,000 miles. That's the best thing you can do while not having to worry about having any warranty issues.
@@lnengineeringllc Thanks for the response.! For reasons I do not understand Porsche and other vehicle manufactures have extended their recommended oil change intervals to 10,000 miles or one year. Personally, I've disagreed with the recommendations from day one. For my cars I change oil every 5000 miles and sometimes sooner depending on how hard I run a car and seasonal condition. Oil filters and oil are very, very cheap compared to the cost of a smoked motor. Your suggestions on how to warm up the motor is excellent as it mitigates many problems. Great series on bore scoring and if I every need an R&R your company is at the top of my list. Cheers
What oil that have a moly in it?
Driven DT40 or DI40 have high levels of Moly. Millers Nano 5w40 also has elevated levels of Moly and is a great choice for those in Europe that might not have access to Driven products.
@@lnengineeringllc i think we do not have this kind of oil in Philippines we only have Motul, Mobile, and other known brand like shell or others. Any chance you can guide me to a concentrate moly oil addetives so will just buy that then add to our every year of oil fill.
@@briantoh7781 LiquiMoly Ceratec additive is full of Moly.
Iron ductile sleeves?
Very informative.Looking forward to segment #4.
Thanks for watching!
Most A40 oils that have API SP also have at least 70 ppm of molybdenum now.
Whats a few good examples Chris?
@@spyder_man PP Euro 5W-40 and new Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 both have that amount roughly.
Thanks Chris, my M97 has only ever had Mobil1 0-40, for 15 years now.
Appreciate your knowledge.
@@spyder_man It used to have less moly until last year. It’s a fine oil though. Not much can cover for design defects.
Is there a european alternative to the Driven oil they recommend? A brand we can easily find that includes Molly in it?
I think Millers oil is recommended.
Millers 5w40 Nano would be a good alternative or Liqui-Moly with their MoS2 or Ceratec additive.
@@lnengineeringllc Awesome, thanks for the answer!!
Another question please: what's your take on shops claiming 10w60 oils? I hear mostly 5 or 10w40, but some professionals claims to go even higher. I know Moly in the oil is more important than ZDDP, but then should we consider for exemple que Liqui Moly 10w60 + Ceratec? Thanks!
@@sylvainniset7249 A 10w60 is likely going to be too thick. A properly formulated 5w40 should be more than sufficient, however a 5w50 would be acceptable for hotter climates as there have been oils with that viscosity on the Porsche approved list in the past.
By “top tier” fuel what do you mean?
Top Tier fuels have better additive packages and overall are much, much better quality than those that meet the Lowest Additive Concentration (LAC). Go here to read more: www.toptiergas.com/ The site also has a Top Tier station finder.
@@PorscheClubofAmericaNothing in Northern Virginia
Good video very informative
Glad you liked it
Hi thanks for the very informative video, one thing I live in the U.K (so not the best weather, but not super cold either!) and own and love my 987.1s. (3.4l) I clean the injectors by adding "Redex" ( not sure of its P.E.A. content?) & I use Mobil 1 0w40. The cars done 80k miles and no signs yet of bore score, but not properly tested?
So if I wanted to make sure I am doing my best to prevent this, what would u advise? Do I need the Driven DT40 and maybe a change of fuel additive and if so what would you recommend please? Thankyou guys so much I am scared of this ever happening, but really want to keep the car.
A quick google search shows that Redex does not use polyetheramine (PEA). An employee at the PCA National Office did an oil analysis after 5,000 miles using Mobil1 0w40 and Driven DT40 5w40 in his 2007 base Cayman (this oil sample is used a few times in this series), and the Mobil1 had much less moly in it than the Driven DT40. If you want PEA in your fuel additive, Driven Injector Defender has it. But there are surely other options in the UK that have PEA, perhaps a google search will turn some up. We recommend getting an oil analysis to determine the health of your engine. Speediagnostix is one company that has tons of experience with these engines.
If you cannot get access to Driven DT40, Millers 5w40 Nano would be a good alternative. If you check the MSDS for the fuel additive, it should list whether or not the additive has polyetheramine (PEA).
Great content....... can I just implement all the suggestions before I ever have the problem? Is there any downside to what you recommend other than sacrificing a little Fuel Economy and maybe some incremental cost?
Probably could. You could definitely run top tier, add injector cleaner, reduce oil change intervals to 5K miles, and do proper warm ups. I’d probably save the thicker oil until after you have verified scoring. Do used oil analysis and when the readings trend in the wrong direction scope it. If you confirm scoring then switch to the high temp high viscosity oil. Just my $0.02.
@K1dPhresh1 summed it up well.
Honestly just get a 997.2.
They score too 😟
@@frederickcook87 not as much though. Glad in have a 991.2 now. So far they seem very stout
The thing seems to be that the problems/scoring starts showing up as the models age. The 997.2 were “safe” until a few years ago and now we’re starting to see some here and there. Although the mode of action is different. Not to be a fear mongerer, but only the future will tell. I do agree with you tho, if it’s possible, just go for the 9A1 engine.
@@K1dPhresh1 the 991.2 is far superior to the 997.1 and better than the 997.2. I’ve had a 997.1 and 997.2 C4S with manual. The only thing better in the 997 is the exhaust note. That’s it. My 991.2 has PDCC, SPASM and RAS. The 997 didn’t have any of that
@@robertsole9970 it should be, it’s the newer car. The engines are definitely better. Far less issues. Other than the rare bore scoring, I’ve heard the main thing to worry about is the HPFPs in the 9A1s.