Unidentified: Flat Tops John Doe
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED.
In September 2004, remains of a man are found in a tent in the Colorado wilderness. Although foul play is not suspected, there are still questions that need answers, including, "Who was Flat Tops John Doe?".
Sources:
www.namus.gov/...
apps.colorado....
reallifeishorro...
www.doenetwork....
www.websleuths...
www.websleuths...
/ who_was_the_flat_tops_...
www.news.com.a...
Apologies if I have mispronounced anything.
Dark Curiosities is a series exploring solved and unsolved crimes, mysterious happenings and truly nightmarish events.
Music credit:
Cause of Death OST - Hard Time
CO.AG Music - Father Marcus
CO.AG Music - Abandoned
All images belong to their respective owners.
Follow Dark Curiosities on Twitter: @ADarkCuriosity #DarkCuriosities
Please keep comments respectful. Any offensive or hateful comments will be removed. Users who consistently post remarks of this nature will be blocked.
25 to 65 years old, heck of a spread.
With all the repair being done to his teeth I would think 65 is more likely the age than 27. I am 63 and just recent years I have had a lot of repairs on my teeth, when I was young there was no need for that!
@@rockstarofredondo-plus thin reading glasses skews older
I don’t know why they even give such a wide span. This guy was obviously on the older end of the spectrum.
The man was late 30s-early 40s: strong enough to hike with disease and still smoke, old enough for vision/dental wear & tear, young enough to dream he’d be discovered and returned safely home
that and a dour inch span?? that body must have been pretty brutal
They should do isotope tests on his molars to figure out what kind of water he drank and where he grew up
If they did Isotopic testing on my teeth it would come back as location: Dr. Pepper manufacturing plant. Lol
@@MommiDonni1 😄
Stop being intelligent LOLA
@@MommiDonni1 lol
Kinda like they did with St. Louis Jane Doe? That's a very intriguing notion.
No name creek. That’s a sad coincidence
It IS a sad coincidence.
If it was a coincidence at all. If the prevailing theory is that he went there to die, it's entirely possible he chose that specific lake for that exact, ironic reason.
heartbreaking
I hope someday someone realizes who he is and claims him. What a sad thing to die alone and no one even realizes who you are.
We all die alone. Except the handful of people that have someone with them at the time of death. No matter how much family you have, or how many people love you... WE ALL DIE ALONE.
@@stratkiller2531 Uhh....no we don't. Totally untrue.
@@stratkiller2531- Dying surrounded by family and friends and dying as a John Doe are totally two different things ya fatalistic fool.
@@stratkiller2531 people who get murdered dont die alone...
@@stratkiller2531 , Very true. It's a journey all our own. Hopefully it will be a good one!!
Ex military sounds promising. Taught to carry large loads and deal with pain whilst doing so.
I love meerkats. ☺️👍🐾
That would explain the arthritis and a possibly the dental work. He could have been a Vietnam Veteran and have not had access to a toothbrush.
MY immediate thought, he had a terminal condition( cancer, GSD ALS, etc.) and went there to die in peace. Or was trying to do something he enjoyed one last time and succumbed to the condition in the process. He states something about taking his ashes gliding; it makes me think that he was an adventurous outdoorsman type. The empty bottle of Tylenol could mean he was in a great deal of pain. The progression of the disease could have caused the skeletal degeneration that the ME thought was arthritis.
Very good theory👌
An empty bottle of Tylenol seems like he overdosed and this was possibly a slow suicide living in the cold mountains within a tent...
Overdose of Tylenol would put you into terminal liver failure
Glycogen Storage Disease is NOT terminal LMFAOO
Tylenol, for pain? If so, his condition was fairly new (i.e., he was not experienced at dealing with whatever pain he was in). I get chronic migraines since the third grade, as well as chronic joint pain, and trust me...the LEAST potent painkiller on the OTC market is acetaminophen (Tylenol). Either that, or like I did back in 2007, he had a history of gastrointestinal ulcers and couldn't take aspirin or ibuprofen anymore. But none of those three are going to help a chronic condition much, if at all. And as @martha salter said, an OD on Tylenol is an incredibly non-enjoyable way to go (or so my doctors tell me). I'm not at all saying I think you're wrong or that it's a bad theory or anything, just that if he chose Tylenol to help cope with pain, he was still always going to be in a world of pain. And in fact, maybe that was the point. If he didn't know what too much acetaminophen does, and he was in a world of pain (especially if he'd been on something before it and was suddenly removed from it for whatever reason), he could've been desperate to find a way to cope.
The face reminds me of a man I used to work with in the 90s. His name was Michael, he went to college in Illinois, he was ex-military, and he lived in St Petersburg, Florida, in the 90s. He was kind of a loner. He would have probably been in his early forties back in the 90s. Chances are this is not him, but who knows? I can't remember his last name, and I don't know how to track him down.
@@Emiliapocalypse yea if he was reported missing
He knew he was dying. This is how he chose to live the end of his life.
It’s hard to imagine a person being dead in a tent for 5 years before anybody comes across their body. This spot must be ultra secluded. No Name Creek might’ve been a clue . . .
i've been to this area before. it's super easy to not only get lost but to never be found. the mountainous area makes it difficult for people to track you. park rangers advise you stay on the marked paths for a VERY good reason- even taking a few steps off of it can result in you getting lost. not really sure what happened here but it doesn't surprise me that it took a few years to find this guy. what does surprise me is why no animals have scavenged his remains. it makes me think he possibly died in the winter and he almost fully rotted away by the spring thaw. if he was completely zipped inside his sleeping bag that's just more evidence for this, tbh
@@rey273frankly I think being inside a zipped sleeping bag, then clothes, then a zipped tent might have made him more protected from scavengers.
I grew up near there and yes, it is remote and difficult terrain.
Autopsy said he had been dead for 5 years but the tent was pitched for a single winter..?
A man with arthritis supposedly hauling camping gear around..?
Games that require two players..?
There was someone else there....
Hydrogenblonde I stopped the video and came to the comments after hearing he could of been dead for 5yrs but the tent being up for less than 2yrs which made no sense to me either but it would also make no sense jus to believe someone was with him due to the fact that he basically written his will down in a book as if he was alone. He writes as if he was hoping someone would find him
@@26CPowell Is it possible "Lib" was the one with him?
Not "for a single winter". She said "for at least a single winter". "At least" implies a minimum, not a maximum.
Silkendrum how did they figure out the tent? How can you tell how long a tent has been up for?
kryer981 if lib was with him then why would he write it down if he was him and could verbally tell him his plans. And why wouldn’t this “lib” come out to say this? It doesn’t make sense at all. All this time and still no Lib.
I just want to point out the gold work would indicate that he had this done before the 90's they really stopped gold work in the 80's. It was much cheaper and more dentists used it in the 70's and prior.
TheDoePatrol I was offered gold dental work this year. It’s still being used.
@@scott72able Did you accept it?
I had gold work put in earlier this year.
I have gold in my teeth from five years ago.
“Many dentists don’t use gold anymore because it’s out of fashion and there are better materials” apparently meant “hey, anyone who has ever gotten gold on their teeth, please come out of the woodwork and tell me your life story!”
Hmm curious. Few Points:
1. I'm from Perth, WA, but no one I know smokes Camel cigarettes, I don't even think supermarkets sell them. You might be able to get em at a specialist tobacco shop, but they'd be expensive and hard to find. Perhaps they were more popular decades ago, but I asked my parents and they said still in the 90s they were uncommon.
2. All our souvenir shops sell t-shirts and key chains, not sleeping bags with 'Perth, Australia' on them. Never seen a sleeping bag souvenir, nor do I think that, as a Perth resident, you'd be seen wearing something with your home town on it, unless it was ironic, and I doubt this chap meant it in that way.
3. I also don't know of anyone being called Lib for short here (if it's Elizabeth, you'd call her Beth if she's older, or Liz or Lizzie if she's young). You'd think he would have included an address or full name for his friend too, if he wanted his body to get back to her, but he may have forgotten.
I suspect he's not from Perth but may have travelled here and picked up the sleeping bag, perhaps he wanted to walk the Bibbulmun Track (fairly famous track leading south from Perth to Albany). Possibly, he could have picked up the bag at some kind of bushwalking event in Perth, as I doubt any places would sell that off the shelf. Or he could have got it from an op shop or a friend. Poor bastard, hopefully they'll take his DNA and it'l come up a match.
Actually Lib, Libby is quite a common short form for Elizabeth. Though probably not in Australia. More common in the UK but rather old-fashioned now.
Agree. I’m from Perth too, never heard the nickname Lib before; not a common name here in Australia. The idea of the bag coming from an op shot is brilliant.
Libby Kennedy from the TV show Neighbours, is short for Elizabeth.
I work in a grocery store and we well Camel cigarettes, both the regular and Crush kinds. They are very popular. Not sure where you got the info that they are expensive and hard to find. I live in Illinois and every store I go into sells them. They are a bit on the pricey side, but so are most cigarettes these days.
@@Cheryltwin2012 I was talking about Perth supermarkets, I know we dont sell Camel at Woolies here. Reread my comment, I think you accidentally misread it.
"Third choice take them up in a glider (I promise not to get sick on you.)" He's referring to a third way of disposing of his ashes, and joking about it.
"be...er...my...s are going." could be "be where my ashes are going."
He must have gotten sick on Lib while up in a glider in the past.
I got the impression he was talking about what to do with his ashes
This hit home because my father in law likes camping on his own. We're never at ease until he comes home. We do know where he's going, the location that is, but we always worry
It's a little weird that he had all that stuff, even an empty bottle of medication, but no identification.
Unless his body was found earlier and robed of every thing..
@@rkradz8576 Obviously not EVERYTHING.
Perhaps he intentionally didn’t want to be identified, duh
@@maddieb.4282That may be the case but it makes one wonder why he was found with a notebook that addressed someone named "Lib" with the following statements:
"I should write in case my situation here doesn't improve. This may be the end of my journey." "Would like for you to claim the body . . . services or memorial. Cremation."
Maybe it wasn't HIS notebook but if were someone else's, why did he have it? Either way, it's still strange.
Poor bloke, this one really strikes a chord with me :(
My mum's nickname is Lib/Libby and as given the possible connections to Australia, did they ever get this case aired over here? I'd never heard of it prior to this as an Aussie, which makes me quite sad, as if that connection is true his family could have no idea.
"If my situation doesn't improve". "If I don't get saved." Was he lost in the woods, or too disabled to make it out on his own, and hoping to be rescued ? I remember a case a few years ago of a woman who had wandered off a trail. She pitched her tent and waited to be found, but by the time she was, she was dead. Very sad.
I remember that case. Very tragic.
What was her name? I want to read about it now.
@@humanbean8590 I forgot her name but I believe they are speaking about a lady that was hiking the Appalachian Trail. She stepped off trail to potty and couldn’t find the trail again. Missing Persons Mysteries did a vid on her.
@@humanbean8590 Gerry Largay
@@humanbean8590 for what I heard from missing enigma she was inexperienced and wanted to complete the trail while her hiking buddy had some personal matters that sprung up during the hike. But yeah she got and later died despite being so close to the trail
He had more than enough money for most of his life, given the extensive dental work, which is expensive in the U.S., even with insurance -- perhaps those familiar with USAA military insurance can say if dentistry would be cheaper for a serviceman. The boots and other gear were also on the expensive side...he was no transient. He was probably older, which means his wife/sister/etc. would have been older as well. The name "Libby" or "Libs" would fit an older woman (a Baby Boomer nickname). He also seems to have been well-prepared for the journey. He could have been a Vietnam vet.
The man is theorised to be Australian. Dentistry is not too expensive here or in many countries, in fact it was free for me when I last had a check up. The assumption of his financial status leads nowhere.
@@matthewlaurence3121he did spell “favor” or “flavor” instead of spelling it with a U. Would Australians not spell it the British way?
@@matthewlaurence3121who is theorizing that he’s Australian? What proof would there be for that? Just curious
@@maddieb.4282 You are correct there. Unless he went to school in the early 1900s, when Australian boards of education switched to older Latinate spelling, omitting the u in such words, before reverting back to the common British standard.
I have mostly forgotten all about this, so will need to rewatch the video and I think a different one about him.
Will reply when I have done so, a bit later.
I found a larger copy of the notebook pages and worked on deciphering them. I’ve already reported, to the detective on this case, what I was able to make out. It seems that he was struck by lightning (which injured his foot or feet) and was waiting to be rescued. He also mentioned the Latin Grammy’s, that he was planning on attending. I sent the detective an email (after speaking with him on the phone), that told everything I could make out. I never heard anything back. I strongly feel that his name (or nickname) was Tiger DeJesus, by the drawings he made. May he RIP.
When I say I am afraid of dying alone, I mean to live alone until the day I die while nobody cares.
Really sad..,to die alone, in pain and not be missed or found for all this time is just awful...searching for Lib should be put in papers in various states with this info,..15 years isn’t too late for her to have passed on too, and could help solve this mystery.
You are o be applauded for doing such a sterling job with all these well researched and presented mysteries, but your lovely Scots accent is such music to my ears after so many robotic voice overs most of the time of late, so huge thanks and keep up the good work. Thankyou. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👍
This story reminded me of another story I once heard about a man named Thomas Hall, he committed suicide while camping in the woods by starving himself to death. It took like 58 days and he kept s diary about how he felt until the day he died. Maybe the subject of a future video?!
Innovative Styles Customization Thanks for that tip, never heard of the guy but I find those types of stories just fascinating!
It says "I promise not to get sick on you THIS TIME." Which means whoever this Libby woman is she had gone gliding with this man before
If Doe Network is on the case, seems a good bet that they have DNA for him. The text in the notebook breaks my heart a bit, whether it's to a person named Lib, or his journal itself (talking to himself or to whoever happens to find it). Writing down what you must know could well be your final words must be a difficult task.
I wonder if there have been any attempts to publicize his handwriting. I don't know if it's distinct, but someone who knew him may recognize it. (The images of that notebook that I've been able to find are tiny.) If he did write "favor" or "flavor" like that, without the "u", then he's almost certainly American. But I think "saved" makes more sense in context.
Although most Australians would write "flavour" and "favour" (and get a squiggly red line under it in the UA-cam comments which default to American spelling) there are some of us who use American spelling. I am wondering if this man had more than one nationality. The fact that he hasn't been identified by his dental work (or anything else) suggests that the dental work was done in another country. [There's another thought. Typically dental work can be linked to a region.]
I would have thought that it would be possible both to extract and sequence DNA and also to do an isotope analysis, which would help to pin down his origins. If he were so badly decayed that the DNA couldn't be extracted then I don't think anyone can state with confidence that his death was natural. It may be possible to rule out some causes, e.g. shooting, but that still leaves a lot of possibilities.
He looks like my boss. But he is still around in the office each day.
It's a great idea to list the things he was carrying. Every single detail. No matter how big or small could be recognized and this man be identified. Thank you for the great videos
I live in San Juan county CO, a guy named Skip Conrad went missing from here around that time, though I'm not sure of the date. He had maybe a chronic illness and pain very similar to what you describe, and some people think maybe he walked off, he's never been found. I don't know if you can research that, but the similarities are intriguing. Skip was very mobile and adept at mountaineering, a local legend if you will.
He does look eerily similar to the sketch in this video but dates don't match up. charleyproject.org/case/skip-conrad
Rob Thanks for the link!
Wow! He does look like him.
Wow, they do have a lot of similarities!
It says he's been missing since 2006 and this guy was found in 2004.
I am probably the millionth person to say so but this woman’s voice, annunciation, diction, accent, cadence, etc. is all amazing ! Great Video. Thanks for the upload and God Bless Flat Top John Doe. 🌹
Wow. If he wanted to be alone he sure managed that. Sad to die like that and not be found for so long tho. I hope Lib or someone who knew them sees this. Excellent and very important vid DC. Thankyou😩🤘💕
Unless someone else was with him & brought him there, a car sitting at a trail head would cause concern especially if after a few days no one came back. Maybe they should look & see if any cars were towed away.
These stories are no heartbreaking.
No one should die alone and forgotten.
I do not see any mention of the possibility of altitude sickness here.
He goes up in the mountains. His lungs begin to fill. His head messes up,
and he dies.
Leave instructions about claiming body, but carry no ID?
I think he may have assumed he'd be found sooner than he was and that someone would be sure to recognize him from news reports.
Most of us have items on us that would identify us. For example, this guy (presumably) drew his cash from somewhere, but he didn't have a key card or a credit card or a bank book? No driver's licence? No random library cards or video ezy card or blood donor card? No receipts?
The lack of ID certainly hints (to my mind) at the idea of some form of foul play, even if the person who removed the ID didn't actually kill him.
@@resourcedragon Maybe he was a criminal. So he didn't want to carry ID. He made his untraceable cash from criminal activity.
@@alexhidell8022 If he was a criminal wouldn't his DNA be in the database? And if he was planning on dying/ knew he was going to die, why would it matter if they identify him or not?
@@GM-jo6hp It still matters if he is identified because he is a human being and no one deserves to be forgotten.
The ‘Perth, Australia’ bag is interesting to me. I grew up in Perth and most often tourist souvenirs are marked ‘Perth, Western Australia’. It makes me think the bag was perhaps a promo type thing.
His handwriting is very similar to my grandmothers, who was born in Victoria, Australia in the 1930’s. Perhaps a man who grew up in Victoria, Australia, went to school there where he learned his penmanship and set off for adventure, working his was across the world doing manual labour work, who decided to die on his own terms?
There looks to be a “b” and a “y” next to the Lib. Also an empty bottle of Tylenol might suggest suicide. Either way hopefully his identity will soon be discovered and he can finally be laid to rest.
the tylenol might also suggest that he took them regularly for his back pain, and when he run out of them the pain became worse....he couldnt move, hunt or take care of himself in the wild and then died of starvation
did the forest service or any of the surrounding law enforcement agencies, have any abandoned vehicles, within the time frame that this person may have trekked back in there? And did they track down the registered owners?
If watching the missing 411 videos and following David Palides has shown me anything its that there is no database of people lost in national forests. If a vehicle had been abandoned I dont even know if it would have been noted. Its just so weird that they dont keep track because its been hundreds of people lost in national forests..
Odd how DNA can be extracted from centuries old mummies and fossils yet there's no DNA for this poor soul who seemingly died alone. Weird.
So...all of those things were found but no identification? He was clearly an adult. I always carry identification.
As someone who worked a convenience store that sold tobacco and alcohol you’d be surprised at the amount of people that don’t carry it
If they have bones,teeth etc. With marrow they can get some DNA or RNA. They should be able to identify the man now. Question is; who's going to pay? That's what is probably going on.
Sad, but true.
There are charities that specialize in finding identities of Does.
Lib is also short for Libby, which is also often used as a contraction of Olivia here in New Zealand. I imagine it would be the same in Aussie as well.
I was doing a bit of research on ‘gliders’. I knew what they were and could name them by sight but knew little of their use and purpose among aircrafts (particularly rescue types). As far as I can tell they serve no purpose in recovery and rescue operations and are for leisure. It’s strange to me in the opening of his writings he writes about his dire situation and potential for rescue and then a few lines later is writing about an aircraft -only one that seemingly has no relevance to his rescue.
Anyway on a side note according to Wikipedia:
“In North America the term 'sailplane' is widely used to describe this type of aircraft. In other parts of the English-speaking world, the word 'glider' is more common.”
So the fact that he refers to it as a glider and not sailplane could give credence to the idea that he is from outside of the states. Personally though, I’m born and raised American and if you pointed at a glider and asked me what do you call that I’d say a glider. I’ve never heard the word sailplane used but maybe I’m in the minority. Maybe a sailplane enthusiast can correct me about its uses or whether in their opinion it’s more commonly known as a sailplane or glider in the states.
Hon. Narcish McTattletale Very good point! I’m from the states and I’ve always heard and used the term ‘glider’ but I know nothing of Airplanes so perhaps the insider or knowledgeable term is ‘Sailplane’.
Thanks. There is something about ‘gliders’, be it the actual planes or just the choice of word, that makes me feel that outside of forensics; this could be the key to solving the case. I wonder if authorities went around to airports or emailing glider enthusiast communities with John Doe’s composite sketch and available details about him to see if anyone recognizes him.
I also wonder about food and water sources local to the area of his campsite. The facts of the case- such as the empty bottle of Tylenol - lead me to believe he was up there a decent period of time. How was he eating? Was there a ready supply of game, fish or edible plants for him to survive on? Otherwise, has anyone gone over the area with a metal detector or ground radar? He likely brought a supply of canned food with him, consumed it, and then buried its leftovers and containers to avoid scrounging wildlife from approaching his site. It may be possible to locate and exhume his trash pit -possibly providing more evidence surrounding the case or his identity.
Finally, I am suspicious that someone may have discovered and pilfered the campsite before it was officially investigated. I just can’t believe that someone who evidently has available resources, was familiar with the outdoors, and who was seemingly prudent in his planning would also go out into the wild to settle long term without a firearm or fishing equipment. Not only for protection but as a means of nourishment. I’d consider myself an outdoorsman but not at all a firearms enthusiast, yet still I would never venture to live off the land without at least a little .22 small game or ranch rifle. I believe they were stolen by way of malice or opportunism. Thoroughly searching the area and ground or using a metal detector could locate spent shells or snagged lures which would help confirm that he was in possession of a firearm or fishing equipment at one point.
Two possible identities jump out as long shots but worthy of consideration: 1. *Bradford Bishop* (missing since 76’, 60-70s at time of death, military man, an avid outdoorsman and amateur pilot) or 2. *Robert William Fisher* (missing since 2001, in early 40’s at time of death, last reported heading north of AZ in general direction of CO, suffered from back pain, also a military man and avid outdoorsman).
@@StufiBuy You make perfect sense to me. Living in the states all my life, I have never heard the term sail plane. I would have used the term glider. I also think the site was pilfered. No gun or fishing gear ??? How would he have fed himself ??
Hooray! I love when you post new content, you're my favorite channel 💚
"Lib" is downunder and/or British slang for Elizabeth.
Liz is the abbreviation not Lib and I have never heard Lib used for a woman called Elizabeth.
@@chuckh5999 Lib or Libby is a shortened version of Elizabeth.
No disrespect intended by this question, but how would they determine that he had no difficulties hauling the camping gear to that location??? In my opinion, it sounds more like speculation or assumption.
Evie Hammond I think they are referring to the fact they are assuming his severe degenerative spinal condition would have made it quite difficult to travel long distances while carrying the weight of all his equipment.
Many forensics tests available today. Skeptical on the tent issue but everything else suggests games were momentos and Lib was a woman in his past. A man wrought with regrets....
Possible military experience could hold the key. DNA can be extracted from bone! Another good show. Thank you.
Yes, I think there's too much being read in to the fact he had 'multiple player' games. Your suggestion of the game being a memento makes sense.
Wow. I grew up in Glenwood springs and have never heard of this particular case. Thank you. Keep going, love the content of your channel
To me it seems that he might have been a hermit/homeless guy that lived in the woods. So many people here in the states live just like this sadly. It really makes you think about the blessings of your own life and the people who love you. Many people are sleeping tonight knowing they don't even have a person who even knows their name. Prey for the unfortunate unloved! #everylifematters
#AllLivesMatter
US citizens are homeless by choice. The large majority, 95-99%, know exactly what the first step is to them getting help. It’s their decision whether they take it or not.
Every drug addict knows programs and sober houses in their areas they can take advantage of. Every homeless person knows of shelters which will provide free temporary living, bathing facilities, clothing, food and job placement. *Nearly every homeless American knows that help is available, they know where it is located and know how to get it if they actually want it.* Name a state in the US that does not provide these services for those who actually want it and make an effort.
Don’t turn this into a ‘haves vs have nots’ issue. None of the evidence points to social status having anything to do with this case. We have no reason to believe financial dilemmas pushed him up onto that mountain.
@@StufiBuy Very well said !!
@@StufiBuyyou’re literally unbalanced and have less than zero compassion. I hope I never meet you
My friend has severe arthritis and in the cold, or on hard ground, gets locked up and can’t move for hours. Perhaps he wanted to prove to himself his independence and did this hiking trip, but proved to much for him and he got stuck in his tent. The pain pills are all gone, meaning he must’ve took them all, either for the pain, or perhaps even suicide?
It would help if they narrow down the age range which a good anthropologist could do. I encourage everyone to share this on their social media, all it takes is for one person to say maybe that is....and make a call. He deserves his name!
Somebody call in Dr. Bass!
Lib is short for Libby and unfortunately this has happened many times with down and out people finding a hiding spot and simply dying RIP my friend
New Subscriber here, very much enjoy your style of presentation. I’ve always loved mysteries and always wanted to solve, or help solve a missing persons cases as it would provide me satisfaction and the family closure as well.
I don’t have anything earth shattering to add but a couple of items caught my attention:
When I listen closely it’s stated around the .39 second mark the tent was collapsed when found and the poor soul had been dead for about five years.
Later it states the tent was ‘up’ for
at least a year, or at least one winter.
I think if the word ‘pitched’ were used it would resolve the issue as it could have been ‘pitched’ since the guy put it up, and just happened
to collapse from the weight of the snow the first winter.
With regards to the multi player video game, I think perhaps maybe the ‘4 in 1’ game meant there were four different games to play, as
opposed to being a multi player game.
With regards to the pocket battleship game I think some of those allowed a single user to play against the machine if another
player were not available.
Camel cigarettes non filter definitely old school military or blue collar, but extensive and expensive dental work could negate that theory.
That’s all I’ve noticed so far, not attempting to contradict any of the existing theories whatsoever.
Military should have records of his dental work, as an active duty soldier’s medical needs are taken care of as its part of keeping said soldier/sailor/marine or airman, combat ready. If he was a veteran the VA should have some kind d of records on him. Part of it makes me wonder if he almost did t intend to be found. I thought the “Dead for 5 years, tent setup for 1” was pretty weird but I’m assuming it was a mistake. Otherwise they’d be saying his corpse had been staged. Being a veteran myself I find it heartbreaking that one of my brothers potentially fought and bled for his country and then died alone and in remembered. How did he get to said Nat’l Park as well? No abandoned vehicle history from that area? Sad, maybe one day they’ll identify him.
I had never heard of this case until I saw your video. Thanks for sharing and bringing attention to his case. Hope it is solved one day soon.
Heartbreaking,it's so sad.
The binoculars and magnifying glass leads me think he was a bird watcher, or botanist. Notes sound kind of like he had cancer. Burial plans.
I agree about the Battleship, and to me it's probably the most interesting part of the case. It's possible to play long distance battleship (you have one game, your opponent has another game.) But that requires cellphone use which is typically pretty spotty in any National Forest even now. I can't imagine what it was like then. All this means that at least at some point, John Doe probably had a traveling companion.
I'm really enjoying this channel. Presenting known facts as facts, speculation as speculation and BS as BS. There's a few of these cases I want to read more about, thanks for sparking my interest and thanks for the good work!
How is his DNA "unavailable?"
After years DNA is unavailable I think.
It may not have been released to the public if specimens were obtained.
1) Addressing his notebook by the name "Lib" makes no sense since his text specifically is directed to a person who would deal with his body. The notebook could not, for example, arrange for cremation. 2) Carrying an electronic device that requires batteries implies he did not intend to stay in the wilderness for very long. 3) Similarly, if he smoked a lot, he would probably need to return to civilization once his supply of Camels ran out, to deal with his tobacco addiction. Unless...he planned to stay there until he died, which he knew was coming soon.
Sounds like standard backpack gear to me. But, that's a lot of cash for being from America, definitely wouldn't carry it with you unless you thought you needed it. His picture should be circulated through the hiking community. I know they have special spots for missing hikers. Most ppl come here to hike the PCT or CDT or something huge, so it's possible he may have done those, ppl might remember him. It could have been something as simple as drinking the wrong water, maybe he just used his filter and didn't boil it.
1999 was pretty crazy, everyone was so sure the world was going to end, so there is that. But, America would have seen it coming because of time zones, so I doubt many ppl ran to hide in the mountains but it is possible. It could have been Y2k
They found a hairbrush but couldn't determine what color his hair had been? So the brunch was spotlessly clean? Not even a fragment of a hair for evaluation?
its supremely sad that he hasnt been identified, but i dont think there was a crime here. i don't see a person with advanced arthritis and degenerative discs walking far into the forest with 20+ packs of smokes expecting to come back out. not to mention it seems the only medication he brought was tylenol - i cant walk down the street with a migraine on that. i hope hes at peace, and someone remembers him in life
Love hearing new stories, thank you!
He´s been dead for at least five years and the tent had been there for at least one winter? Thats a scary thought. Someone brought him up there dead and put him n the tent after he had been dead for four years.... Hmmmm
Yes, I found this point pretty strange too ...
maybe they meant that the provision and equipment would last for about one winter.....but after he died ( maybe in that first winter ) the body just stayed their undiscovered and decomposed for the next four years?
I find it odd that he was prepared as if he was going on a solo journey and yet he brought multiplayer games as if someone were accompanying him for at least part of the journey?
Old games... and one that requires heavy batteries.
So he died 5 years before he was found yet they think the tent was set up the winter before he was found? I feel like I missed something
They estimated it had been up for "at LEAST one winter". Other, more knowlegeable people, thought he had pretty good gear, so I would assume his tent was tip-top, too, which would make it difficult to say how long it'd been there, but definitely at least for a year.
This is so Eerie...thanks for presenting evidence photos in the videos omg
That accent.... ♡ .intresting content too. Although ive never heard of the name Elizabeth having the name shortened to Lib ,Lizzie yes Liz etc. Here in Aus we usually add a y or a ie to a name only a small thought on this all .
A longer version is Libby, from Elizabeth. Nowhere near as common as Lizzie in the U.S.
I truly enjoy your videos. Looking forward to seeing more. 💚🖤💚🖤
A pocket battleship game to pass the time.
How did I ever survive those primitive times?
How do u know he didn’t have trouble hauling the equipment? Who knows if this was intended destination? By the sounds of it, it prob wasn’t he just couldn’t go any further
Fingerprints on pen or notebook?
As a sufferer of oesteoarthritis, I wonder why he didn't have more bottles of Tylanol or even something strongein his possession.. Unless his OA was of an early onset, say in his 20's, I would be surprised if the man wasn't at least 50 YOA with the degeneration he had. I feel great pity towards this unidentified man and as an Australian I am wondering that with the passage of time, if the paper and ink could be analysed to determine if these were likely to have been manufactured here as opposed to the US. I would have offed myself once the Tylanol ran out I'm afraid, but maybe by that time he didn't have the energy or the spirit to go on any more. Very sad that nobody seems to be looking for this person and maybe "Lib" herself has passed on as well. Very disappointing that they were unable to get DNA. LASTLY I wonder how many people walked past that tent in the time he was lying there dead. As the cash was still there and no-one reported anything I imagine nobody bothered to look. As I said before, very sad. I hope you are resting in peace wherever you are now Sir!
I think the clue that could solve this case is at 2:14 the Tylenol bottle.when the poisonings happened they changed the pills to caplets and the numbers on the bottles tell were the bottle was delivered to if they are not from Colorado then he must of bought them from a different state maybe were he was from! Just a thought!!!!
I'm the online sleuther who realized "flavor" was "saved"
He was taking painkillers that's how he was able to haul his tent ⛺️
I have never found Tylenol to have any ability to kill pain. Not even Tylenol 3.
That diary sounds like these sad journals from Skyrim.
Like your respectful narration and video btw.
Between 27 and 65, that sure narrows it down.
how sad that his last words and wishes could not be properly read and carried out
He definitely was closer to 65 than 27 years of age. Sad, he suffered much in life with sever arthritis.
This guy sounds too prepared for his camping adventure to have committed suicide? Why go through so much trouble packing all that stuff if you know you are gonna off yourself anyways? I think he went camping alone then suffered a fall causing more injury to his already bad back, that incapacitated him, no movement meant just waiting to be found or death. He was talking about being found in his note book. He was probably old and knew his back was wearing out and did the camping as a bucket list thing before his back completely gave out and unfortunately did not end well for him.
They are currently comparing DNA with some of the possible identities including Mark Allen Husk. Keeping this case in my thoughts ❤️
I'm glad they're testing the poor dude's DNA. When they don't I always feel like they're just being cheap and uncaring.
fantastic video! this was so fascinating. I really hope they eventually Identify him.
You have a lovely voice and perfect for this narration and of like stories. You are like the female counterpart to Criminally Listed.
Could this be Gary Mathias?
I can't believe he was found with all of those possessions and they couldn't find a single finger print.
Thank you for sharing this. You never know; someone may recognize him. He had to be somewhere before he ended up there.
I wonder if they've done x-ray photos of the notebook pages. It might decipher more. I'm sure they've probably thought of that though.
Interestingly, if you look at the spot where he was found on google maps, at the end of the turnoff road where he was found, it looks like there’s an old possibly rusted out vehicle (truck maybe?) abandoned there. Wonder if that’s what it actually is and if it’s his
I have a curious theory, not that I am sticking to it too hard. It seems maybe this guy wanted to die in peace, in nature. With the bottle of tylenol, maybe he took his own life, or maybe he used it for his pain, though, if he had a condition that severe, I would suspect he would be on some powerful painkillers, of an opioid variety most likeky. Maybe he had a history in the area. If he had multiplayer games, maybe he went with somebody.
I'm thinking he went with someone on the idea that the person could help him to set up a camp, pitch the tent, haul the gear, do the camp chores, and then maybe the person could leave him to die where he wanted to and left, keeping their silence.
You made me think of how I chuck all the meds I may need in one bottle if I'm going away. Perhaps he did the same and the Tyl. bottle could hold the most.
I was wondering if someone went camping and then found the body of the guy and being respectful brought it inside the tent and then thought better of involving himself in the death of someone so never said anything but figured people would notice the tent still there after awhile... That would explain how the guy was there years more then the tent...
But so sad too. I hope someone who knows anything hears about the guy and can help identify him.
I wonder if "Lib" is really short for Libby.
What? The tent was one year old he was found in?? Yet he was dead 5, years?
Well done! Did you research this yourself?
I really enjoy your videos.
It's so sad that he died alone and in pain and no one looked for him. It's so strange that his body could have stayed there for 5 years, did no one notice the tent for 5 years? Also how was the tent there for at least one winter but his body had been there for 5? This whole case is so strange.
He's probably a victim of life. After my separation, not a soul would have known or even cared, except for all the money I was sending, whether I lived or died. Seriously, some of these men feel very disposable. Very sad end for him. Rip.
I'm sorry. :( That sounds very sad.
If he's had that much dental work done and had that much arthritis, he's definitely 47 to 65 years old.
at 1:47 she says he was believed to be dead for 5 years but the tent was only up for 1 year? So someone put a 4 year old dead body in a tent and it was discovered a year later? This is confusing. Someone help?
This is the most intriguing doe on the entire channel. Dead for years and years, but no one discovered the tent...