Paul, what up? If you’re still thinking about Spider-Verse, I would love to see the villains of this movie get some analysis as well (mostly just Kingpin and Prowler, really).
Yeah Kingpin is all muscle with almost no fat that's the twist with his character you think he's fat but you punch him and find out oh shit he's actually like Andre the Giant.
@@reifuTD Yep. His only fat spots are around his midsection, covering massive abs, and around his neck to cover a muscular no-neck typical hulking look. He's about 10% body fat at most, typically very lean but given the sheer amount of muscle that typically makes 10% impossible that makes him look like a fat guy. Kingpin can easily lift his own body weight over his head or even grab a motorcycle and toss it at you. The fact that the comics say he's not a metahuman with that impossible build makes people think he's just a ball of fat. Then again, the comics (DC as opposed to Marvel) also say Batman isn't metahuman... despite him being something no real human can be. An old comic book shop owner I used to talk to said that comics giving normal humans "upper limits" beyond what is realistic is to give us real people hope... well, mainly kids and teens who read them.
Hey man... *Peter* died. Mile's Peter. Because he decided not to take action. You were looking in the wrong place for when his Uncle Ben moment happens.
It is a good point for an uncle Ben, but it has the same issues. He did what Peter said, he listened, and did what he could. The other Peters did something which caused their Uncle Ben, which you could say happened when he unmasked and made his uncle question himself. It wasn't a wrong act to do what he did, but it wasn't the perfect act, like a lot of the other spiders. Arguably the spider-woman would also fall into that, because she accidentally killed her 'uncle Ben' because he was rampaging.
@@TheLoadingCrew "Miles didn't have this problem at all" ... he literally lost his Uncle, who was his absolute favorite person and role model at the start of the movie, and that comes with all the guilt of (A) not having figured out he was the villain, (B) leading Prowler back to the house caused the confrontation where he died, (C) from his point of view, Aaron was directly killed FOR not killing him, which again happened because he revealed himself. From Miles' point of view, his loss is severe and all his fault, as Aaron died in his arms, very similar to the various Spider-uncles. AAAND as Moon Blaze pointed out, he felt responsible for Peter A as well.
@@demonac I suppose but his hands are still effectively clean. the big difference in my eyes is that: 1) Aaron is a super villain murderer. he deserves to die. being likeable only matters to an audience. Either he goes down or more people die 2) Miles only makes these mistakes due to lack of experience and not any moral or personal failures on his part. Miles did nothing wrong, which is why I found it kinda boring in comparison. don't get me wrong Aarons reveal to Miles was still one of the best parts of the movie but my complaint is how the tough decisions of the movie were kinda made for him
"Miles was a shy kid who was trying to break out of his shell-" No??? He wasn't? He was very popular at his old school and tries to use that same charm to win friends at his new school. He was comfortable in his old environment because it was easy for him, but it wasn't challenging him or giving him the tools he needed to be the best he could be - and give the most he could give. This *exactly* mirrors his journey as Spider-Man. He was an exceptionally talented and smart kid with no direction or ambition. Then these two big things (three if you count puberty lol) that force him to navigate entirely new situations. His arc wasn't at all about finding self-confidence. It was about learning to use the gifts he was given to do the right thing, even if it's difficult or scary or not very fun, because it's not always going to be your choice. Peter and his father tell him the exact same thing: You have enormous potential, which is why I expected so much from you, but I understand that you're not ready. Or... what's another way to put this... maybe something like "With great power, comes great responsibility."
Yeah, Gerard Way's Peni Parker is pretty much the exact opposite of Into the Spider-Verse's Peni Parker in just about every way, from what I understand.
@@henryp9671 Sadly I haven't had the chance to read it myself, but I want to. This was back when I was playing Heroclix so I was doing research and hoping we'd get her in the game lol
Miles Morales has always been a separate character from standard Spiderman, you can see the other spider-people as counterparts to the Peter who died, he assumedly had a story revolving around sacrifice and responsibility. Its a bit meta, and I understand your take, but partially because of backlash at the thought of a black spider-man when he was conceived, Miles has always been a separate character with his own moral themes. These themes, like living up to Peter's legacy but also coming into his own identity, are great as a story and as a response to meta criticism of Miles's existence. Sorry for rambling, but I love this movie, I also love your content! Keep it up/
To add to your point the same is true of all the other Spider-people not named derivatives of Peter Parker. Gwen’s theme in the comics revolves around identity and sacrifice with her whole story more revolving around what characters know her identity Miguel’s mostly revolves around scientific integrity Brian Braddock’s revolves around authority and accountability and Jessica Drew’s revolves mostly around freedom of choice just to give a few examples. Yes many if not all get the great power great responsibility line fed to them at some point but that’s almost any character who interacts with Peter and it rarely interacts with their stories thematically
The final battle between Miles and Kingpin isn't the conclusion to Miles' character arc, which was indeed when he let Peter B go. The fight's not really about Miles after that point. I think the fight's actually the conclusion to Kingpin's arc, and a pretty satisfying-if-a-bit-simple one?
I don't think that's quite accurate, I agree that the fight is the conclusion of Kingpin's arc, but I think the conclusion of Miles' arc is his apotheosis scene where he dons the graffiti suit. I think the scene where Miles sends Peter B. back home is the conclusion of Peter's arc, because it's not just Miles letting Peter go, it's Peter having faith in people when the situation is beyond his control. It's Peter finally learning that, yes, he might make mistakes, but it'll be okay as long as keeps trying to do better.
If anything that scene is for Jefferson, who’s arc in the movie is accepting his son as Spider-Man. The assumption is that Jefferson will support Miles no matter what, but it’s a struggle when those clash with his ideas of a prosperous or safe life and him accepting Miles in the collider is the conclusion to that.
Miles’ Uncle Ben is his universe’s Peter Parker. He felt like his inaction (and in his eyes, cowardice), cost his city and universe their Spider-Man. Least that’s how I saw it.
I think Miles does in fact deal "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility." just from a different thematic angle. Taking on responsibility requires a degree of courage when you'd rather be coasting through life in what is familiar, comfortable and safe. As consequence of struggling with answering the call of his duty, Aaron dies (through a somewhat indirect sequence of events, much like Uncle Ben, even though Aaron has the dual role of "crook" and "tragic loss"), Peter B. dies, and all of New York is in serious jeopardy at worst, or one of his fellow Spider-Folk have to sacrifice themselves at best. As for Kingpin...y'know, I heard that he wasn't that strong a villain from reviews before I watched in theaters, but me personally? I got it. He is a dark mirror of Miles. He is the love for family Miles has, twisted and deformed (that extends to his character design, the tall hunchedback, comically wide shoulders). He wants his family and comfort back, damn the responsibility and consequences.
“Kingpin is an old fat guy.” Uh, Kingpin is all muscle. Everyone keeps underestimating him as just a fat guy until they realize that is also what Power Lifters look like.
I think you missed a major point, all the other spiders were the FIRST spiders in their universe. Miles was trying to fill the legacy of the Peter who died for him. For Miles it seems that it was never a case of I have power what do I do now? It's a case of can I fill these shoes, can I be Spiderman?
My one nit pick about the video is that... Kingpin isn't fat. In almost no iterations of his character is he fat. He IS large, but it is stated many times across several comic book iterations and cartoons that almost all of his bulk is muscle. Given this knowledge I can believe that this Kingpin is a match for Miles' strength, if not just straight up stronger than him. It is only Miles' shock ability being a wild card that gave Miles the win. Now, did I expect any outcome except Miles saving the day? No. But that would be true even if Ultimate Green Goblin made a surprise come back at the end of the movie. Its just where the story was going to go.
Your observation that miles is kind of borring or has a very strange take on the power and responsibility isn't as out of left field as you might think. In the comics he is almost the exect opsesit of Peter. He takes so much responsibility on himself and is generally a good if bland kid and very trusting. That he's kind of borring. He's a good friend a good son and unlike Peter is more of a team player Peter....Peter is a mess, just a giant mess. Dispite his famous saying he takes very little responsibility. Oh sure he saves the world ever other work but gives little to no consideration to the none super hero part of his life. Gewn is a good balancing act between the two. Amusingly most people feel that movie miles is an improvement on comic
In every universe, The First Spidermans story is heavy in sacrifice. And miles being completely divergent is important for what and who miles represents
What interesting is that if you listen to the musical themes, the spider-men (exluding miles) all have the same musical cues when we meat them (they also have an unique theme, but it played like once and that it). So basically a theme that represent the normal spiderman. Miles is different since he doesnt start off as spiderman. He has two musical identities that are contently played. First is Hip hop music. he ether humming along or listening to it a decent amount of the movie, and does it when he in a tense situation sometimes (when music in universe, it called Diegetic music). The interesting thing is, the Hip hop only plays when he trying to be in what he already knew. the second is an out of universe that pop up that define miles journey to become spiderman (so something new and unknown). what make this realy cleaver is when he master his powers, it a Hip hop song that playing, but also the spiderman and his personal journey theme. It basicly a mix of what he knows, what he doesn't know, and what that unkown is. so he had more then just being spiderman. he didn't have to lose what originally define him. And I think because of that, the other spidermen that think they can't have a life outside of their hero persona, start to question that ideal. Which when we look at Peter B, you see that necessary since he has become jaded, and Gwen is quickly approaching that as well. I dont know if MIles being unaffected is good thing or a bad thing, but it most defiantly what the producer wanted, at least to some degree.
Miles’s story was less “with great power comes great responsibility” and more “with great responsibility you better shape up the power required to perform said responsibility”
I think one theme that seems to be missed is that, "With great power comes great responsibility," applies to more than just protecting others. Miles' whole arc is about learning to be more than he thinks he is and pushing himself to be confident in who he is and his ability. In that same vein, he teaches the other spider-people a valuable moral. Peter B. learns that it takes takes more guts to face the everyday mundane problems and personal fears than it does tackling bad guys. It is not the first or last time he has to learn this because those fears repeat themselves. Gwen learns that she needs to forgive herself for Peter's death, move on from her solo only act, and take on strong relationships and friends. Spiderham learns to stick up for himself even if no one takes him seriously. Noir learns to look outside of himself and his guilt to see the color and mystery of the actual world. Penni learned to pick herself up and move forward on her own two feet without the legacy of her father to protect her. The real theme twist is that "responsibility" also means responsibility to yourself. Taking care of who you are and how you feel is just as important as taking care of others. If you hold no great responsibility to yourself, who is going to wield that great power?
Miles doesn’t feel like a spiderman because that’s the point. If his whole story was about him discovering who he was, then if he discovered that he was one of a match set, then that would be unsatisfying.
I believe that I understand your view point on how you view Miles story or arc as not being about sacrifice and responsibility because they don't follow the main Spider-man theme; however the general ideals that inspire part a, a superhero and part b, a spider-person. In my opinion the original even of Uncle Ben dying and Peter discovering that it was a robber that he could have stopped but didn't ultimately led him to understand "with great power comes responsibility", then through out his life he sacrifices so others don't have to experience such pain, not when he can do something about it. Miles learns this lesson as a result of Peter Parker's death. You had noted that he couldn't have done anything mostly because of his fledgling powers, and you are right if we are looking at only the facts of the event in which miles did not yet have the know how to help, but this disregards emotional impact. The comics did a better version of illustrating this by giving Miles his powers and having him neglect to learn them, so when the original Spider-man, Peter Parker died Miles feels responsible because he had the power but chose not to use it, that maybe he could have done something if he just tried. I feel the writers tried to do this with the death of Peter Parker in the movie, even though Miles couldn't do anything, in actuality, he feels responsible because he had power(s) but had to run because he did not have skill. This moment instills within him the duty to sacrifice to protect others, simply by the fact he seeks to be able. The other spiders work from the point that they are able therfore they should help, but Miles works from the point that he wishes to be able so that he can help, so nothing like the events that befell the original Peter Parker will not happen again if he is able. As fore the sacrifice, the other spiders have been doing this for a while, they have mastery of their powers and they have had a longer time to sacrifice for others. We simply can't see this because the end of the movie was simply the beginning of Miles's story and in the future he will have to deal with the trials and tribulations the other spiders have faced. That might just be my sewed point of view from my comic knowledge, but I believe the way the writers chose to marge the origin and multi-verse stories showed both aspects pretty well given the difficulty of doing what they were doing.
I just want to comment on the fact that the Peter who died didn’t only die because he was under rubble, and Kingpin is not just a fat old man who got lucky. In the beginning of the movie, it is hinted that the ordeal with the super-collider had been happening for a while due to the string of recent earthquakes happening over the span of a few weeks, and Spiderman had coincidentally also been fighting villains for a while. He even comments during his fight against The Green Goblin about how tired he is, implying he has been fighting against them for some time. My personal theory is this was King Pin’s plan, teaming up with villains to make Peter overwork himself and use his self-sacrificing nature so that it becomes his ultimate undoing, and i think this is ultimately what the movie is about. This is foreshadowing for almost everybody’s actual arc in the movie. For Peter, it teaches him that though he does have responsibilities, it doesn’t mean he has to sacrifice the happiness of a family for it. He definitely needs to be careful, but his happy commitment to his wife and opportunity to have kids does not have to be exclusive from being Spiderman. The main thing he learns is that with the right amount of work, both can be done successfully without giving so much. Gwen learns that though her friend was put in danger and her brash decisions had unintended consequences, she learns to take a load off of her shoulder by allowing herself the luxury of friends to hang out with. Even Spider-Noir learns that though he has to deal with the moral ambiguity of his actions, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a kid deep inside him that wishes to have fun with things that fascinate him like a Rubix cube. This, however, is not Mile’s arc. His personal arc is backwards because he teaches the others his view while they balance it out with theirs. In the beginning, Miles has too much fun, and he dodges his responsibilities of being a dedicated student because he wants the life he had before, where he didn’t have to apply himself so harshly and actually maintained friends easily. Though he is awkward and has trouble with the new lifestyle, it is his decision to give up on attempting to strive in the new environment that begins his arc. As he meets and learns from the new Spidermen, we see when he gets his powers that he runs from this new and sudden responsibility. The Spidermen later push him too hard and he avoids the job he has as a new Spiderman, and his reluctancy to fight his uncle was put off so much that he did end up paying for it when Kingpin killed Uncle Aaron. It is only later where he realizes that though things will be hard and though he can’t do as much as everybody else, he has to do it despite the situation being at its hardest. Everybody else is instead learning from Miles. He is a fun-loving kid, and their friendship opens new revelations in every other Spiderman. Peter learns his happiness relies on a family, Gwen learns she needs friends to enjoy herself, and even Spider-Noir learns he has a kid’s fascination deep down. These all conflict with their previous dilemma of sacrificing their happiness for their jobs. And this goes full circle to the blonde Peter Parker. He has the perfect balance, but begins jumping into the pitfalls of our later Peter when he works himself to death (get it?) and he teaches Miles to do what he was doing because that is the guidance he currently needs as a kid. But both from Miles and the memory of Peter, the rest learn the inverse lesson. And this is the perfect example to people in this age. Adults shouldn’t overwork themselves and fall into the inescapable depths of depression and burnout, and kids who are faced with some of the hardest times of their life in the transition of middle school to high school need to work for the happiness of making friends and balancing work instead of giving up on the opportunity to achieve these things. This explanation may be a little convoluted, but I hope I was able to get my point across for anybody who read it all the way to the end! Thank you so much if you read all the way down, and I hope you have a great day!
I disagree; self-confidence is a BIG theme in the Spiderman comics. There are several times when Spiderman ends up a lot like Peter B and is almost quits as Spiderman. Some of the most iconic moments in the comics has that. So, no, it totally fits, it's just a different twist in a familiar theme... which is kinda the point of the movie. They are all different twists of the same arc.
so, peni is interesting. she's only really seen in 2 independent chapters that both directly tie into her getting involved with the comic spider-verse events. other than that, she's only in a few panels in the actual crossover storylines. so there's not a whole lot to go off of. I will say she is way more "kawaii anime girl" in the movie than in the comics. in short, her dad died while piloting the sp//dr mech when she was 9 and she was informed that she was the only persona able to pilot the mech due to being the daughter of the pilot. she accepts, and allows the radioactive spider that forms the second half of the mech's CPU to bite her, creating the telepathic link. in short, she basically works for the government. her comic world is seemingly a bit more drab than you might think from the movie. she is based on evangellion after all. she also does have to deal with her own universe's version of venom. VEN#m
@@TheLoadingCrew I think that if Miles hadn't revealed himself and just fought his uncle more seriously throughout, Prowler wouldn't have faltered and been shot by Kingpin. Because Miles was afraid and indecisive he got pinned and that lead to his uncle dying. And even if you argue this, his uncle still died in front of him and he's a kid, that's going to have an effect.
I'm pretty sure Miles' arc is "With Great Power, comes Great Expectations" Miles must live up to the expectations of Peter Parker's Spider-Man and the other Spider People.
One could argue or at least, something I noticed, the idea of the 'with great power comes greater responsibility,' the term is taken from Miles himself who as you mentioned at the end, really didn't apply to him, but it does apply in a way to his Uncle. Erin did have the power and his responsibilities though not necessarily shown to us could be more in line with his family, but the difference is that he chose to use his power strictly for himself, becoming a criminal in the process. When he discovers Miles is the Spiderman he's been hunting all along, just like the other spidermen in the series, he's given a hard choice regarding his power and what that means to him. Sacrifice his family, which he's always cared for, or give up his ways and change to be something better in the moment. He chose the later, and died for it--his choice however, or at least I feel like in combination with his father's advice is what ultimately sparks Mile's road to growth as a character. Its interesting because its a contrast in story dichotomy vs the other spidermen, the typical Peter's uncle dying sparking his need grow is flipped where its the uncle now with the power seeing what his actions are doing tohis family and then dies due to said choices in a way showing Miles the lesson through literally who he was Prowler. Hopefully tha tmakes sense but, I thought it was a cool 2 cents to share.
I get what you're saying about how ITSV averts the "Great Power/Great Responsibility" Aesop, but that lesson was one that needed to be learned by Peter, not necessarily Miles. Miles journey is more along the lines of "Great Power/Great Expectations". Miles spends the first half of the movie rejecting expectations placed on him by others. Because he's an intelligent child, he's expected to excel at Visions Academy and go into a career that utilizes that intelligence. Miles isn't interested in that. He instead wants to form and foster social bonds with others and practice his street art, because those are what he uses to define who he is. When he becomes Spider-Man, he is expected to save the entire space-time continuum from a cataclysmic event as if he were Peter Parker. While he doesn't fully reject that expectation, he only half-heartedly accepts it because he reasonably finds that expectation overwhelming. But in his final moments with Aaron and his heart to heart with Jefferson, he comes to understand that (1) expectations aren't necessarily a bad thing, they can actually serve as a reminder of what you are capable of; and (2) raw ability is not enough to meet those expectations, you have to be motivated and willing to put in the work to meet expectations.
9:41 when you realize that if he had been slightly worse at running away it actually would’ve worked out well for him. The Prowler would have let him run away if he’d seen his face and in the apartment scene later he could have called out to miles to try and work things out. Aron likely would have chosen to help defeat kingpin when he’s given the information.
0:29 Oop, Miles’ mask has nose holes, he’s practically saying “Lookie here COVID-19, I’m comprising my own immune system, come and get me, you won’t” responsible my ass, does he even know how this thing spreads? Seriously tho, wear a mask if you ever leave your property
I think the thing about the Spider-Man responsibility thing is only half-true. It's true responsibility is an integral part in the Spider-Man story to an extent but that's always been a truly Peter Parker experience. Peter's journey with responsibility has always been linked with his decision to not stop the robber who ended up killing Ben. Miles' loss had nothing to do with that, but it had everything to do with his comfort zone and being willing to push himself to be the best he can be. Power-wise Miles can be by far the strongest Spider-Man because his innate abilities are more versatile while his strength is on par with the others and this is also reflected with his school life. It's not like he moved so he can still see his friends but he just didn't have that confidence to see how far his intelligence could take him. Aaron Davis was the only person that pushed Miles in a way that he still felt a part of something. With the school Miles had to separate himself from everything and with his powers without the spiderfam he felt like they were a "curse". Aaron however was able to nurture Miles' creativity with him and was with Miles through all of it. That's why it took both losing his uncle and his Father's speech to know that he'll never be alone and that he can be great for himself. Miles is a different hero, just the same name.
Why does every Spiderman fan demand that different Spider characters only learn the same lesson over and over and over again? Spidey can’t learn any other lesson without being called watered down or ‘not a true Spiderman film.’
Can’t blame you on the hot takes. Personally, I love the world building and the setup for future villain encounters across the Spiderverse. It’s hard to put all of this together and keep it in a concise movie with character arcs and dynamic A-plot points, not hard to see where it hurts a bit. I loved the reference to the “one last time” just bc it’s almost annoying how much Spider-Man has been redone in comics/movies.
@@duckawesome2012 Nah, I'd say generally Chaotic Good while also being an asshole. Despite being a prick who is more focused on his own creature comforts, he does tend to at least try to do things that don't tend to bring disaster to those around him. It's just the universe exists seemingly to make sure he suffers.
@@willofthewinds3222 I would say Neutral Good leaning towards Chaotic Neutral, he really doesn't care about law or chaos, he doesn't have a strict moral code, but his actions aren't exactly chaotic.
I really wished that Peni had her own comic series. I hope she shows up in the second movie, along with all the others. Hopefully she gets her own series soon.
I think as of into the Spiderverse, it's made clear why Miles's story isn't a classic spider man one. Yeah he is a spiderman, but he's not a Peter Parker. Everyone thinks they know what he ought to be doing, and plenty are willing to try and lecture him on what is supposedly the right thing to do. He's initially very desperate to fit in as a spiderman, but by the end of Into, he realizes he's not obligated to follow anyone else's instructions.
People have addressed that Kingpin is mostly muscle, but I haven't seen mention of the fact that he's super hero strong. He can punch hard enough to dent concrete, is trained in multiple forms of armed and unarmed combat and has fought Captain America in the past. Given that Miles is going primarily off of instinct for a good portion of this fight, it's realistic that he could have died had plot armor not been a factor. Kingpin is freakin' scary.
I think Miles' responsibility moment comes from accepting that his capabilities are part of him no matter what sho he can either do what's right or end up like uncle Aaron. Miles' uncle and dad represent the same two paths Peter had to choose from when he decided between using his powers for his own gain (wrestling) everyone else be damned or becoming spiderman, and just like Peter a lesson was taught through the death of a beloved relative. True it wasn't Miles' choice killing his uncle like it was Peter's, but it foreshadows what Miles could become if he decides for selfishness over selflessness.
To the end: It is a good thing. Miles isn’t Peter. He was never supposed to be. He’s not a replacement Spider-man, he’s an additional Spider-man. His struggles aren’t supposed to be the same. Jesus, the Zuko video wasn’t wrong, man, your nitpicking skills are adequate at best.
considering they kill their peter parker to get him...yeah, i'd say he's a replacement. And yeah, he's kinda gifted everything from the previous one. Every spiderman (at least in this film) except for miles has blood on their hands and made personal choices for them to be this way. It's a broken pattern. Miles is the only one to keep everything and lose nothing (except for an uncle who doomed himself by being a murderer). My nitpicking skills are fine, thank you
Honestly, I agree with Mile's character arch not being very good as a spiderman, for the same points you pointed out. The core feature of Spiderman, is Morals, and living a Duel Life because of those morals. Peter Parker, in the beginning, was a High-schooler, and had some friends. So a lot of the issues around his life, was juggling School, hanging out with his friends and interacting with them, AND saving the city, going on patrol, doing secret work on his spider tech, learning the city and so on, AND do it all with out giving away his secret. Take the new spiderman for example, where both MJ and his best friend learns about his identity, and cause of that anytime he needs to bail, they can cover for him. Same with Miles as well, he also has a friend now that can cover for him in the spiderverse movies. Original Peter Parker tho, doesn't have that. His secret I believe is never found out except with MJ way waaaay later on. So originally, he has to juggle all these things, and his morals about it. He can't just leave high school, he needs education to learn and grow. He can't just abandon his friends, that's not fair or nice to them. But he also can't give up being a superhero, as he has great power, and with that come great responsibility. Miles tho, doesn't have any of that. Miles isn't learning Tech, nor that smart, instead his focus is more on Art, something you don't need school for. He could drop out at any time without worry once he's saved the city enough that stores donate food to live off of each day. His roommate/friend also already knows his secret, will be covering for him, and won't abandon him for having to go save people. He also has no reason to NOT be a superhero because of the reasons listed above. Heck, being a Marvel Universe, he could just go live with Tony Stark and be a hero full time with all the tech, training, and resources he could ever need at Avenger's Tower. So for Miles, there is literally no conflict about Morals, about living a Duel Life, or about responsibility. Instead, I think it would have been better if Mile's Father, the cop, was the one killed, and Miles knows his Uncle is the Prowler, but his uncle doesn't know about him. Even take it once step farther, have his mother already dead or killed with the father, so he was FORCED, being a child, to go to his uncle to be his ward as well. THAT would have been a much more interesting moral dilemma for Miles. He loves his uncle, but knows his uncle is a Super Criminal. He also can't reveal who he is, as there will be conflict, and can't turn him in as that will put miles in a Foster Home and maybe away from the city and his friends and aunt may. So he has to juggle that life at home, and anytime he runs into his uncle committing crimes. He also needs to balance his lifestyle, cause his uncle could find out the truth and would demand answers if he was say out all night or day when he shouldn't be. THAT would be a hell of an arch to see for Miles, and would fit the Spiderman's persona Dilemma better.
counterpoint to Miles not being accountable for his great ability; he doesn't want to be. He tries to escape the school he earned his way into, his great ability got him in, but he wants out. Perhaps it's not exactly what you mean, but learning to accept his power as spiderman helps him realize that his ability for school is also something he should accept. basically, he learns how to accept himself through learning how to accept his new powers. and the fight with Kingpin is not about if he can win or not, it's showing that he has accepted and learned how to be not only spiderman, but himself.
You know who I want to see next? Gru, from the Despicable Me series. It'd be great to "celebrate" the new Minions movie coming out soon. Or, if not that, GLaDOS from the Portal series. Please.
Couldn't the fact that miles was crumbling when pressure is applied to anything school, spiderman and so forth fearing failure and letting people down a form of sharking responsibility
Hey, do you ever plan on making a video on Ash from pokemon? Not all of him, giving how he have more movies than most characters in the MCU, plus the anime, but just to explain why he is the representation of chaotic good in your alingment chart, not that I disagree, I would just like to hear your argument
It's a both timers. Miles already has the understanding of sacrifice. That's why he Dawned the mantle of Spider-Man and took up the responsibility. He just lack the confidence to do.
Only nitpick I have with this video is that you don't understand the threat of Kingpin. He is basically borderline superhuman as well. Edit He causes the concrete to shatter in the scene he kills Spider-Man so he has his characteristic kinda super strength at least.
Peter Porker, the Spectacle Spider-Ham is basically a toon pig in his universe. He eats non-sentiant pork (pigs are omnivores, and will resort to cannibalism if no other source of food is available). And, did I mention he is a toon? Toons tend to be more chaotic by nature. Oh, and Peter Porker doesn't have an Uncle Ben at all. He was a toon spider turned into a pig after being bit by a temporary radioactive Aunt May Porker, mad scientist who somehow believes that the spider who lived in her basement is now her nephew and a pig like herself.
I’d actually be interested to see a “What alignment is” on Michael Bay’s version of Optimus Prime. For a paragon of freedom and justice, he does some distinctly non-lawful good things. For example: climax of the third movie: He kills Megatron in cold blood, immediately after Megatron SAVED HIS LIFE and OFFERED A TRUCE. Definitely chaotic neutral.
Although now my head is imploding because of the question of whether following a code that “every living being deserves freedom” makes you lawful or chaotic
I would suggest that starting Miles and Gwen off as Neutral would make more sense, and D&D editions give children True Neutral moralities as default. Mainly because children don't have the experience, or adult perspective leading to true maturity, to fully form a firm alignment yet. True, there can be tendencies, but for core rule D&D it's be children/adolescence classified as True Neutral.
Oh, and this wasn't a reflection of the quality of your content. Just me picking at it because I enjoyed it so much! Keep making your content. It's great :)
tbh the scene when they discover doc ock really does work like a dnd session. They to stealth in, then peter tries persuasion, then they just take the pc and run. Edit: same with infiltrating fisk disguised as waiters
Honestly your nitpicks of this movie and Miles character arc make some spicy points. Buttt... since this is just a "Miles Introduction Story", I am soo ready for a sequel and how we can see Miles grow from here. He has become his own Spiderman but tha is not the end of his story. In the comics aswell him and Gwen develop from friends into a full blown relationship and it is actually fairly well written. Exploring how 2 spider people being together works in practice and how a strong friendship and trust leads to a healthy relationship which is... actually hard to find sometimes in Comics. Anyways old video but great one. Keep it up.
I appreciate your opinion on the movie, I love your alignment videos the production and entertainment value are way over 9k, & I wouldn't mind hearing more of your Tabletop mini stories
I've always been of the mind that yes, Miles Morales is a different Spiderman. in most versions he's trained by Peter Parker without the multiverse insanity that this movie has. He aspires to live up to a legacy he feels short of, even though he's fully capable of living up to, and possibly surpassing the legacy of the original Spiderman.
My personal hot take is that all the powers have literally nothing to do with spiders. Spiders already have cool abilities like breathing underwater trapping oxygen on their legs or surviving impacts that could kill common people because of a different breathing apparatus. I like that they're looking at new powers to fresh up the characters but it just doesn't feel like spiderman. It feels like some other generic superhero with a somewhat spiderman-esq backstory. Also not wearing a mask is chaotic evil.
Spider-Man is about accountability all the other spider people learned they had to be accountable to the needs of others based on the consequences of their selfish actions. Miles is already accountable for the people around him. he learns self accountability by embracing himself and making sure he has the motivation and self drive to be the spiderperson the city needs for the long haul. He teaches this to the other spider people, mainly Peter b. B focuses solely on his uncles dying words “with great power comes great response” and sacrifices everything including his friends, family and self worth. He lives in a mess and gets dragged into a rut. Spiderverse is a reflection on no matter how important your work is you need to be accountability for your own wellbeing and happiness because when you work yourself to the bone your work suffers. With great responsibility comes the need for the need for self gratification.
A bit of an odd one, but could you maybe do one of these for the siblings, maybe also for the cat, from the movie The Cat with a Hat? I just like that movie a lot, and it's kinda interesting, considering the Mentor, the cat, is a truly chaotic character.
Debunking your "Miles universe is implied to be ours" thing, he doesn't know what Comic-Con is, which while you could argue he's just never heard of, that's very hard to believe
I wouldn't mind episodes on either of the two live action Spidermen we have who's stories are finished. Then maybe if this is still going when Disney retires our current Spiderman you could do him aswell.
I always seen Miles character arc has being overwhelmed by great expectations from everyone. I don't explain myself well so I would recommend watching Everything Great About Spider-Man Into Spiderverse.
0:30 He was not in a pandemic at the time, he went to a Spider-Man related event and that is the reason he's wearing it, but yes, if they were in a pandemic, and that mask was FDA approved, he would have been responsible, I don't understand why you ask
suggestion for the next one what alignment would ratchet and clank be through out the ps2 era of games (rac 1-size matters i wouldn't count secrect agent clank due to it being a spin off game but if need be it would have to be after up your arsenal in plot line)
Man, the "Peter B. Parker is/should be Toby's Spidey" thing bothers me so much. Spiderverse is kind of a celebration of Spider-Man's source material, the comic books. Peter B. is from from the 616 universe (which is the main comic continuity), and all of the other spider people have their own comic books. I don't know, it sounds nitpicky, but I feel like bringing film versions of Spidey kinda ruins it. He's more than the movies.
Also I think you only dislike Miles' journey because you're trying to see it through the lenses of the classic Peter Parker story, but Miles isn't Peter. The thing about "anyone can be Spider-Man" wouldn't work as well if the movie implied you must go through one specific arc. Kingpin is also more than just "an old fat guy", he's a giant and a powerhourse. Even if you're not familiar with the character, they clearly tried to show that with his design. Damaged Peter or not, what he did was scary.
Also, the previous film Spider-Man thingy (although only with previous villains) is done anyway with No Way Home, so in a very reductive sense you have comic Spider-Men and film Spider-Men mergings.
Miles' uncle died because Miles chose to use his powers to stop Kingpin which led prowler to sacrifice himself for Miles which he likely wouldn't have done for anyone else
I gotta disagree with with what you said about Gwen and Peter B at the end the reason Gwen feels guilty is (implied) to be that of the same reason as the comics and that is the fact when Gwen got her powers Peter felt left behind for lack of better phrasing so in an attempt to be like her he developed the lizard serum but he lost himself Gwen believing that the lizard killed peter killed the lizard killing peter (bit contrived but its comics) and as such blames herself for peters death and as such distances herself from people justifying it by saying she protecting them when in reality she was trying to protect herself and the reason Peter B and MJ divorced is because peter didn't feel ready for kids while MJ was ready this created tension and with the already built up tension of being Spiderman and having to bury aunt may puts to much strain on their relationship and they divorce and judging by MJ's reaction at the end of the movie she it
I feel you but the way I saw this movie it’s not Spider-Man this isn’t miles movie it’s the intro to the spider verse and everyone in it could hold their own movie/shorts series
For those wondering what new Spider-heroes should show up in Spider-verse 2, I’m gonna let you know that Spider-Cat, Spider-Knight, and Spider-Pirate are all real versions of Peter.
1: ITS *"SPIDER-MAN"* THERES A HYPHEN FFS 2: i'd update the title to say 'every *main* spider-man' for the sake of having a *bit* more accuracy but thats less vital
There's some moments of Lawful Neutral as well - character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her. Order and organization are paramount to her. She may believe in personal order and live by a code or standard, or she may believe in order for all and favor a strong, organized government.
Peter B Parker is the spider man from the main comic universe, 616. The ideal spider man and miles are from the main parallel universe which is comic canon. I don’t know why they add the confusion of adding the B to make this unclear but with a little research you can clearly see they B Parker is just the original comic spider man but after many many years of time and development.
Special thank you to our editor Paul for doing this video! Everyone say "Hi Paul!!"
Hi Paul, I have a suggestion for an future alignment video: Iron man
Paul, what up? If you’re still thinking about Spider-Verse, I would love to see the villains of this movie get some analysis as well (mostly just Kingpin and Prowler, really).
Hi Paul! You have the same name as my dad!
Couldja tell yer boss to do a Katsuki Bakugou video?
If he says no, slap him.
Danke!
Hi Paul, how are you?
Hi Paul!
"Kingpin is just an old fat guy."
Kingpin from Netflix's Daredevil: *"When I was a boy"*
Yeah Kingpin is all muscle with almost no fat that's the twist with his character you think he's fat but you punch him and find out oh shit he's actually like Andre the Giant.
@@reifuTD Yep. His only fat spots are around his midsection, covering massive abs, and around his neck to cover a muscular no-neck typical hulking look. He's about 10% body fat at most, typically very lean but given the sheer amount of muscle that typically makes 10% impossible that makes him look like a fat guy. Kingpin can easily lift his own body weight over his head or even grab a motorcycle and toss it at you. The fact that the comics say he's not a metahuman with that impossible build makes people think he's just a ball of fat. Then again, the comics (DC as opposed to Marvel) also say Batman isn't metahuman... despite him being something no real human can be. An old comic book shop owner I used to talk to said that comics giving normal humans "upper limits" beyond what is realistic is to give us real people hope... well, mainly kids and teens who read them.
Hey man... *Peter* died. Mile's Peter. Because he decided not to take action. You were looking in the wrong place for when his Uncle Ben moment happens.
oooh! interesting point
It is a good point for an uncle Ben, but it has the same issues. He did what Peter said, he listened, and did what he could. The other Peters did something which caused their Uncle Ben, which you could say happened when he unmasked and made his uncle question himself. It wasn't a wrong act to do what he did, but it wasn't the perfect act, like a lot of the other spiders. Arguably the spider-woman would also fall into that, because she accidentally killed her 'uncle Ben' because he was rampaging.
TheLoadingCrew also here’s another thing kingpin is mostly muscle
@@TheLoadingCrew "Miles didn't have this problem at all" ... he literally lost his Uncle, who was his absolute favorite person and role model at the start of the movie, and that comes with all the guilt of (A) not having figured out he was the villain, (B) leading Prowler back to the house caused the confrontation where he died, (C) from his point of view, Aaron was directly killed FOR not killing him, which again happened because he revealed himself. From Miles' point of view, his loss is severe and all his fault, as Aaron died in his arms, very similar to the various Spider-uncles. AAAND as Moon Blaze pointed out, he felt responsible for Peter A as well.
@@demonac I suppose but his hands are still effectively clean. the big difference in my eyes is that:
1) Aaron is a super villain murderer. he deserves to die. being likeable only matters to an audience. Either he goes down or more people die
2) Miles only makes these mistakes due to lack of experience and not any moral or personal failures on his part. Miles did nothing wrong, which is why I found it kinda boring in comparison.
don't get me wrong Aarons reveal to Miles was still one of the best parts of the movie but my complaint is how the tough decisions of the movie were kinda made for him
"Miles was a shy kid who was trying to break out of his shell-" No??? He wasn't? He was very popular at his old school and tries to use that same charm to win friends at his new school. He was comfortable in his old environment because it was easy for him, but it wasn't challenging him or giving him the tools he needed to be the best he could be - and give the most he could give. This *exactly* mirrors his journey as Spider-Man. He was an exceptionally talented and smart kid with no direction or ambition. Then these two big things (three if you count puberty lol) that force him to navigate entirely new situations. His arc wasn't at all about finding self-confidence. It was about learning to use the gifts he was given to do the right thing, even if it's difficult or scary or not very fun, because it's not always going to be your choice. Peter and his father tell him the exact same thing: You have enormous potential, which is why I expected so much from you, but I understand that you're not ready. Or... what's another way to put this... maybe something like "With great power, comes great responsibility."
Yes
The interesting thing about Peni is in the comics, she was actually based on Neon Genesis Evengelion in the comics
Yeah, Gerard Way's Peni Parker is pretty much the exact opposite of Into the Spider-Verse's Peni Parker in just about every way, from what I understand.
Oh boy, another character with PTSDepression, huh?
@@AspenTitan She's more serious and closed off than depressed.
Blue Angel Well that just sounds mindlessly depressing I kind of wanna read it
@@henryp9671 Sadly I haven't had the chance to read it myself, but I want to. This was back when I was playing Heroclix so I was doing research and hoping we'd get her in the game lol
Miles Morales has always been a separate character from standard Spiderman, you can see the other spider-people as counterparts to the Peter who died, he assumedly had a story revolving around sacrifice and responsibility. Its a bit meta, and I understand your take, but partially because of backlash at the thought of a black spider-man when he was conceived, Miles has always been a separate character with his own moral themes. These themes, like living up to Peter's legacy but also coming into his own identity, are great as a story and as a response to meta criticism of Miles's existence.
Sorry for rambling, but I love this movie, I also love your content! Keep it up/
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Nat 20 ramble
To add to your point the same is true of all the other Spider-people not named derivatives of Peter Parker. Gwen’s theme in the comics revolves around identity and sacrifice with her whole story more revolving around what characters know her identity Miguel’s mostly revolves around scientific integrity Brian Braddock’s revolves around authority and accountability and Jessica Drew’s revolves mostly around freedom of choice just to give a few examples. Yes many if not all get the great power great responsibility line fed to them at some point but that’s almost any character who interacts with Peter and it rarely interacts with their stories thematically
@@kristophersurma6459 You could perhaps say their morals are miles apart, hmm? I'll leave now.
The final battle between Miles and Kingpin isn't the conclusion to Miles' character arc, which was indeed when he let Peter B go. The fight's not really about Miles after that point.
I think the fight's actually the conclusion to Kingpin's arc, and a pretty satisfying-if-a-bit-simple one?
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I don't think that's quite accurate, I agree that the fight is the conclusion of Kingpin's arc, but I think the conclusion of Miles' arc is his apotheosis scene where he dons the graffiti suit. I think the scene where Miles sends Peter B. back home is the conclusion of Peter's arc, because it's not just Miles letting Peter go, it's Peter having faith in people when the situation is beyond his control. It's Peter finally learning that, yes, he might make mistakes, but it'll be okay as long as keeps trying to do better.
If anything that scene is for Jefferson, who’s arc in the movie is accepting his son as Spider-Man. The assumption is that Jefferson will support Miles no matter what, but it’s a struggle when those clash with his ideas of a prosperous or safe life and him accepting Miles in the collider is the conclusion to that.
Another point that Peter B isn’t the Sam Raimi Peter, he has mechanical web shooters, Raimi Peter could make webs naturally somehow?
derp....yup
Miles’ Uncle Ben is his universe’s Peter Parker. He felt like his inaction (and in his eyes, cowardice), cost his city and universe their Spider-Man.
Least that’s how I saw it.
I think Miles does in fact deal "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility." just from a different thematic angle. Taking on responsibility requires a degree of courage when you'd rather be coasting through life in what is familiar, comfortable and safe. As consequence of struggling with answering the call of his duty, Aaron dies (through a somewhat indirect sequence of events, much like Uncle Ben, even though Aaron has the dual role of "crook" and "tragic loss"), Peter B. dies, and all of New York is in serious jeopardy at worst, or one of his fellow Spider-Folk have to sacrifice themselves at best.
As for Kingpin...y'know, I heard that he wasn't that strong a villain from reviews before I watched in theaters, but me personally? I got it. He is a dark mirror of Miles. He is the love for family Miles has, twisted and deformed (that extends to his character design, the tall hunchedback, comically wide shoulders). He wants his family and comfort back, damn the responsibility and consequences.
3 years latw but you are based my friend.
“Kingpin is an old fat guy.”
Uh, Kingpin is all muscle. Everyone keeps underestimating him as just a fat guy until they realize that is also what Power Lifters look like.
I think you missed a major point, all the other spiders were the FIRST spiders in their universe. Miles was trying to fill the legacy of the Peter who died for him. For Miles it seems that it was never a case of I have power what do I do now? It's a case of can I fill these shoes, can I be Spiderman?
My one nit pick about the video is that... Kingpin isn't fat. In almost no iterations of his character is he fat. He IS large, but it is stated many times across several comic book iterations and cartoons that almost all of his bulk is muscle. Given this knowledge I can believe that this Kingpin is a match for Miles' strength, if not just straight up stronger than him. It is only Miles' shock ability being a wild card that gave Miles the win. Now, did I expect any outcome except Miles saving the day? No. But that would be true even if Ultimate Green Goblin made a surprise come back at the end of the movie. Its just where the story was going to go.
Your observation that miles is kind of borring or has a very strange take on the power and responsibility isn't as out of left field as you might think.
In the comics he is almost the exect opsesit of Peter. He takes so much responsibility on himself and is generally a good if bland kid and very trusting. That he's kind of borring. He's a good friend a good son and unlike Peter is more of a team player
Peter....Peter is a mess, just a giant mess. Dispite his famous saying he takes very little responsibility. Oh sure he saves the world ever other work but gives little to no consideration to the none super hero part of his life.
Gewn is a good balancing act between the two.
Amusingly most people feel that movie miles is an improvement on comic
Wear a mask! Just not like Miles. He has nose holes which does nothing to keep others safe when he sneezes.
In every universe, The First Spidermans story is heavy in sacrifice. And miles being completely divergent is important for what and who miles represents
Slight nit pick, Kingpin has so much muscle that it just wraps around him as a solid mass.
98% pure muscle as he himself said in the 90s show.
Hate to say it but you're wrong....Feminism (for that matter any activism) without being preachy isn't neutral good, its effing priceless!
You forgot 2099
DAMMIT! I TOTALLY DID!
@Luke Lay but he doesn’t do much.
@@zEr-ne5ri the video says every spider-man from into the spiderverse its still clickbait.
nooooooooooo!!! click bait by technicality! my ultimate weakness
@@TheLoadingCrew and the 60's Spider-man
"Spider-Man is one of the greatest hero's ever devloped"
Yes
What interesting is that if you listen to the musical themes, the spider-men (exluding miles) all have the same musical cues when we meat them (they also have an unique theme, but it played like once and that it). So basically a theme that represent the normal spiderman. Miles is different since he doesnt start off as spiderman. He has two musical identities that are contently played. First is Hip hop music. he ether humming along or listening to it a decent amount of the movie, and does it when he in a tense situation sometimes (when music in universe, it called Diegetic music). The interesting thing is, the Hip hop only plays when he trying to be in what he already knew. the second is an out of universe that pop up that define miles journey to become spiderman (so something new and unknown). what make this realy cleaver is when he master his powers, it a Hip hop song that playing, but also the spiderman and his personal journey theme. It basicly a mix of what he knows, what he doesn't know, and what that unkown is. so he had more then just being spiderman. he didn't have to lose what originally define him. And I think because of that, the other spidermen that think they can't have a life outside of their hero persona, start to question that ideal. Which when we look at Peter B, you see that necessary since he has become jaded, and Gwen is quickly approaching that as well. I dont know if MIles being unaffected is good thing or a bad thing, but it most defiantly what the producer wanted, at least to some degree.
Miles’s story was less “with great power comes great responsibility” and more “with great responsibility you better shape up the power required to perform said responsibility”
I think one theme that seems to be missed is that, "With great power comes great responsibility," applies to more than just protecting others.
Miles' whole arc is about learning to be more than he thinks he is and pushing himself to be confident in who he is and his ability. In that same vein, he teaches the other spider-people a valuable moral.
Peter B. learns that it takes takes more guts to face the everyday mundane problems and personal fears than it does tackling bad guys. It is not the first or last time he has to learn this because those fears repeat themselves.
Gwen learns that she needs to forgive herself for Peter's death, move on from her solo only act, and take on strong relationships and friends.
Spiderham learns to stick up for himself even if no one takes him seriously.
Noir learns to look outside of himself and his guilt to see the color and mystery of the actual world.
Penni learned to pick herself up and move forward on her own two feet without the legacy of her father to protect her.
The real theme twist is that "responsibility" also means responsibility to yourself. Taking care of who you are and how you feel is just as important as taking care of others. If you hold no great responsibility to yourself, who is going to wield that great power?
Miles doesn’t feel like a spiderman because that’s the point. If his whole story was about him discovering who he was, then if he discovered that he was one of a match set, then that would be unsatisfying.
I believe that I understand your view point on how you view Miles story or arc as not being about sacrifice and responsibility because they don't follow the main Spider-man theme; however the general ideals that inspire part a, a superhero and part b, a spider-person. In my opinion the original even of Uncle Ben dying and Peter discovering that it was a robber that he could have stopped but didn't ultimately led him to understand "with great power comes responsibility", then through out his life he sacrifices so others don't have to experience such pain, not when he can do something about it. Miles learns this lesson as a result of Peter Parker's death. You had noted that he couldn't have done anything mostly because of his fledgling powers, and you are right if we are looking at only the facts of the event in which miles did not yet have the know how to help, but this disregards emotional impact. The comics did a better version of illustrating this by giving Miles his powers and having him neglect to learn them, so when the original Spider-man, Peter Parker died Miles feels responsible because he had the power but chose not to use it, that maybe he could have done something if he just tried. I feel the writers tried to do this with the death of Peter Parker in the movie, even though Miles couldn't do anything, in actuality, he feels responsible because he had power(s) but had to run because he did not have skill. This moment instills within him the duty to sacrifice to protect others, simply by the fact he seeks to be able. The other spiders work from the point that they are able therfore they should help, but Miles works from the point that he wishes to be able so that he can help, so nothing like the events that befell the original Peter Parker will not happen again if he is able. As fore the sacrifice, the other spiders have been doing this for a while, they have mastery of their powers and they have had a longer time to sacrifice for others. We simply can't see this because the end of the movie was simply the beginning of Miles's story and in the future he will have to deal with the trials and tribulations the other spiders have faced. That might just be my sewed point of view from my comic knowledge, but I believe the way the writers chose to marge the origin and multi-verse stories showed both aspects pretty well given the difficulty of doing what they were doing.
I just want to comment on the fact that the Peter who died didn’t only die because he was under rubble, and Kingpin is not just a fat old man who got lucky. In the beginning of the movie, it is hinted that the ordeal with the super-collider had been happening for a while due to the string of recent earthquakes happening over the span of a few weeks, and Spiderman had coincidentally also been fighting villains for a while. He even comments during his fight against The Green Goblin about how tired he is, implying he has been fighting against them for some time. My personal theory is this was King Pin’s plan, teaming up with villains to make Peter overwork himself and use his self-sacrificing nature so that it becomes his ultimate undoing, and i think this is ultimately what the movie is about. This is foreshadowing for almost everybody’s actual arc in the movie. For Peter, it teaches him that though he does have responsibilities, it doesn’t mean he has to sacrifice the happiness of a family for it. He definitely needs to be careful, but his happy commitment to his wife and opportunity to have kids does not have to be exclusive from being Spiderman. The main thing he learns is that with the right amount of work, both can be done successfully without giving so much. Gwen learns that though her friend was put in danger and her brash decisions had unintended consequences, she learns to take a load off of her shoulder by allowing herself the luxury of friends to hang out with. Even Spider-Noir learns that though he has to deal with the moral ambiguity of his actions, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a kid deep inside him that wishes to have fun with things that fascinate him like a Rubix cube. This, however, is not Mile’s arc. His personal arc is backwards because he teaches the others his view while they balance it out with theirs. In the beginning, Miles has too much fun, and he dodges his responsibilities of being a dedicated student because he wants the life he had before, where he didn’t have to apply himself so harshly and actually maintained friends easily. Though he is awkward and has trouble with the new lifestyle, it is his decision to give up on attempting to strive in the new environment that begins his arc. As he meets and learns from the new Spidermen, we see when he gets his powers that he runs from this new and sudden responsibility. The Spidermen later push him too hard and he avoids the job he has as a new Spiderman, and his reluctancy to fight his uncle was put off so much that he did end up paying for it when Kingpin killed Uncle Aaron. It is only later where he realizes that though things will be hard and though he can’t do as much as everybody else, he has to do it despite the situation being at its hardest. Everybody else is instead learning from Miles. He is a fun-loving kid, and their friendship opens new revelations in every other Spiderman. Peter learns his happiness relies on a family, Gwen learns she needs friends to enjoy herself, and even Spider-Noir learns he has a kid’s fascination deep down. These all conflict with their previous dilemma of sacrificing their happiness for their jobs. And this goes full circle to the blonde Peter Parker. He has the perfect balance, but begins jumping into the pitfalls of our later Peter when he works himself to death (get it?) and he teaches Miles to do what he was doing because that is the guidance he currently needs as a kid. But both from Miles and the memory of Peter, the rest learn the inverse lesson. And this is the perfect example to people in this age. Adults shouldn’t overwork themselves and fall into the inescapable depths of depression and burnout, and kids who are faced with some of the hardest times of their life in the transition of middle school to high school need to work for the happiness of making friends and balancing work instead of giving up on the opportunity to achieve these things. This explanation may be a little convoluted, but I hope I was able to get my point across for anybody who read it all the way to the end! Thank you so much if you read all the way down, and I hope you have a great day!
I think you nailed it!
Bruh, you foing kingpin dirty, like seriously kingpin is low key terrifying, power of influence and basically super strength.
I disagree; self-confidence is a BIG theme in the Spiderman comics. There are several times when Spiderman ends up a lot like Peter B and is almost quits as Spiderman. Some of the most iconic moments in the comics has that. So, no, it totally fits, it's just a different twist in a familiar theme... which is kinda the point of the movie. They are all different twists of the same arc.
so, peni is interesting. she's only really seen in 2 independent chapters that both directly tie into her getting involved with the comic spider-verse events. other than that, she's only in a few panels in the actual crossover storylines. so there's not a whole lot to go off of. I will say she is way more "kawaii anime girl" in the movie than in the comics. in short, her dad died while piloting the sp//dr mech when she was 9 and she was informed that she was the only persona able to pilot the mech due to being the daughter of the pilot. she accepts, and allows the radioactive spider that forms the second half of the mech's CPU to bite her, creating the telepathic link. in short, she basically works for the government. her comic world is seemingly a bit more drab than you might think from the movie. she is based on evangellion after all. she also does have to deal with her own universe's version of venom. VEN#m
16:30 "Miles didn't have this problem at all"
Did you forget that kingpin SHOT his uncle, right in front of him.
no. I saw that. i'm saying he didn't sacrifice anything. his uncle died because of his own actions
@@TheLoadingCrew I think that if Miles hadn't revealed himself and just fought his uncle more seriously throughout, Prowler wouldn't have faltered and been shot by Kingpin. Because Miles was afraid and indecisive he got pinned and that lead to his uncle dying. And even if you argue this, his uncle still died in front of him and he's a kid, that's going to have an effect.
I'm pretty sure Miles' arc is "With Great Power, comes Great Expectations" Miles must live up to the expectations of Peter Parker's Spider-Man and the other Spider People.
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One could argue or at least, something I noticed, the idea of the 'with great power comes greater responsibility,' the term is taken from Miles himself who as you mentioned at the end, really didn't apply to him, but it does apply in a way to his Uncle. Erin did have the power and his responsibilities though not necessarily shown to us could be more in line with his family, but the difference is that he chose to use his power strictly for himself, becoming a criminal in the process. When he discovers Miles is the Spiderman he's been hunting all along, just like the other spidermen in the series, he's given a hard choice regarding his power and what that means to him. Sacrifice his family, which he's always cared for, or give up his ways and change to be something better in the moment.
He chose the later, and died for it--his choice however, or at least I feel like in combination with his father's advice is what ultimately sparks Mile's road to growth as a character. Its interesting because its a contrast in story dichotomy vs the other spidermen, the typical Peter's uncle dying sparking his need grow is flipped where its the uncle now with the power seeing what his actions are doing tohis family and then dies due to said choices in a way showing Miles the lesson through literally who he was Prowler. Hopefully tha tmakes sense but, I thought it was a cool 2 cents to share.
I get what you're saying about how ITSV averts the "Great Power/Great Responsibility" Aesop, but that lesson was one that needed to be learned by Peter, not necessarily Miles. Miles journey is more along the lines of "Great Power/Great Expectations". Miles spends the first half of the movie rejecting expectations placed on him by others. Because he's an intelligent child, he's expected to excel at Visions Academy and go into a career that utilizes that intelligence. Miles isn't interested in that. He instead wants to form and foster social bonds with others and practice his street art, because those are what he uses to define who he is. When he becomes Spider-Man, he is expected to save the entire space-time continuum from a cataclysmic event as if he were Peter Parker. While he doesn't fully reject that expectation, he only half-heartedly accepts it because he reasonably finds that expectation overwhelming. But in his final moments with Aaron and his heart to heart with Jefferson, he comes to understand that (1) expectations aren't necessarily a bad thing, they can actually serve as a reminder of what you are capable of; and (2) raw ability is not enough to meet those expectations, you have to be motivated and willing to put in the work to meet expectations.
9:41 when you realize that if he had been slightly worse at running away it actually would’ve worked out well for him. The Prowler would have let him run away if he’d seen his face and in the apartment scene later he could have called out to miles to try and work things out. Aron likely would have chosen to help defeat kingpin when he’s given the information.
0:29
Oop, Miles’ mask has nose holes, he’s practically saying “Lookie here COVID-19, I’m comprising my own immune system, come and get me, you won’t” responsible my ass, does he even know how this thing spreads? Seriously tho, wear a mask if you ever leave your property
You want a mask over your eyes? Even actual masks don't have that.
Cant wait for the follow-up when Across the Spider-Verse comes out on Blue-Ray
I think the thing about the Spider-Man responsibility thing is only half-true. It's true responsibility is an integral part in the Spider-Man story to an extent but that's always been a truly Peter Parker experience. Peter's journey with responsibility has always been linked with his decision to not stop the robber who ended up killing Ben. Miles' loss had nothing to do with that, but it had everything to do with his comfort zone and being willing to push himself to be the best he can be. Power-wise Miles can be by far the strongest Spider-Man because his innate abilities are more versatile while his strength is on par with the others and this is also reflected with his school life. It's not like he moved so he can still see his friends but he just didn't have that confidence to see how far his intelligence could take him. Aaron Davis was the only person that pushed Miles in a way that he still felt a part of something. With the school Miles had to separate himself from everything and with his powers without the spiderfam he felt like they were a "curse". Aaron however was able to nurture Miles' creativity with him and was with Miles through all of it. That's why it took both losing his uncle and his Father's speech to know that he'll never be alone and that he can be great for himself. Miles is a different hero, just the same name.
Why does every Spiderman fan demand that different Spider characters only learn the same lesson over and over and over again? Spidey can’t learn any other lesson without being called watered down or ‘not a true Spiderman film.’
Okay but is no one going to talk about the absolute perfect voice cast of this movie? My personal favorite is Nick Cage as Spider Noir.
Maximum Spider!
Love your channel
Crawler Assault!
Can’t blame you on the hot takes. Personally, I love the world building and the setup for future villain encounters across the Spiderverse. It’s hard to put all of this together and keep it in a concise movie with character arcs and dynamic A-plot points, not hard to see where it hurts a bit. I loved the reference to the “one last time” just bc it’s almost annoying how much Spider-Man has been redone in comics/movies.
What DND alignment is Kazuma from Konosuba
YES! Chaotic Neutral most likely
@@duckawesome2012 Nah, I'd say generally Chaotic Good while also being an asshole. Despite being a prick who is more focused on his own creature comforts, he does tend to at least try to do things that don't tend to bring disaster to those around him. It's just the universe exists seemingly to make sure he suffers.
@@willofthewinds3222 I would say Neutral Good leaning towards Chaotic Neutral, he really doesn't care about law or chaos, he doesn't have a strict moral code, but his actions aren't exactly chaotic.
Chaotic Evil for sure
If we’re using the 5x5, then it’s Rebel Moral
Something fun i love is the costumes seen in the background in a scene they are all the costumes from Spiderman PS4 that are obtainable
I really wished that Peni had her own comic series. I hope she shows up in the second movie, along with all the others. Hopefully she gets her own series soon.
I think as of into the Spiderverse, it's made clear why Miles's story isn't a classic spider man one. Yeah he is a spiderman, but he's not a Peter Parker. Everyone thinks they know what he ought to be doing, and plenty are willing to try and lecture him on what is supposedly the right thing to do. He's initially very desperate to fit in as a spiderman, but by the end of Into, he realizes he's not obligated to follow anyone else's instructions.
People have addressed that Kingpin is mostly muscle, but I haven't seen mention of the fact that he's super hero strong. He can punch hard enough to dent concrete, is trained in multiple forms of armed and unarmed combat and has fought Captain America in the past. Given that Miles is going primarily off of instinct for a good portion of this fight, it's realistic that he could have died had plot armor not been a factor.
Kingpin is freakin' scary.
Never thought I would see the day in which a spider-man does more chaotic neutral acts than Deadpool.
I think Miles' responsibility moment comes from accepting that his capabilities are part of him no matter what sho he can either do what's right or end up like uncle Aaron. Miles' uncle and dad represent the same two paths Peter had to choose from when he decided between using his powers for his own gain (wrestling) everyone else be damned or becoming spiderman, and just like Peter a lesson was taught through the death of a beloved relative. True it wasn't Miles' choice killing his uncle like it was Peter's, but it foreshadows what Miles could become if he decides for selfishness over selflessness.
To the end: It is a good thing. Miles isn’t Peter. He was never supposed to be.
He’s not a replacement Spider-man, he’s an additional Spider-man. His struggles aren’t supposed to be the same.
Jesus, the Zuko video wasn’t wrong, man, your nitpicking skills are adequate at best.
considering they kill their peter parker to get him...yeah, i'd say he's a replacement. And yeah, he's kinda gifted everything from the previous one. Every spiderman (at least in this film) except for miles has blood on their hands and made personal choices for them to be this way. It's a broken pattern. Miles is the only one to keep everything and lose nothing (except for an uncle who doomed himself by being a murderer). My nitpicking skills are fine, thank you
Honestly, I agree with Mile's character arch not being very good as a spiderman, for the same points you pointed out.
The core feature of Spiderman, is Morals, and living a Duel Life because of those morals.
Peter Parker, in the beginning, was a High-schooler, and had some friends. So a lot of the issues around his life, was juggling School, hanging out with his friends and interacting with them, AND saving the city, going on patrol, doing secret work on his spider tech, learning the city and so on, AND do it all with out giving away his secret. Take the new spiderman for example, where both MJ and his best friend learns about his identity, and cause of that anytime he needs to bail, they can cover for him. Same with Miles as well, he also has a friend now that can cover for him in the spiderverse movies. Original Peter Parker tho, doesn't have that. His secret I believe is never found out except with MJ way waaaay later on.
So originally, he has to juggle all these things, and his morals about it. He can't just leave high school, he needs education to learn and grow. He can't just abandon his friends, that's not fair or nice to them. But he also can't give up being a superhero, as he has great power, and with that come great responsibility.
Miles tho, doesn't have any of that. Miles isn't learning Tech, nor that smart, instead his focus is more on Art, something you don't need school for. He could drop out at any time without worry once he's saved the city enough that stores donate food to live off of each day. His roommate/friend also already knows his secret, will be covering for him, and won't abandon him for having to go save people. He also has no reason to NOT be a superhero because of the reasons listed above.
Heck, being a Marvel Universe, he could just go live with Tony Stark and be a hero full time with all the tech, training, and resources he could ever need at Avenger's Tower.
So for Miles, there is literally no conflict about Morals, about living a Duel Life, or about responsibility.
Instead, I think it would have been better if Mile's Father, the cop, was the one killed, and Miles knows his Uncle is the Prowler, but his uncle doesn't know about him. Even take it once step farther, have his mother already dead or killed with the father, so he was FORCED, being a child, to go to his uncle to be his ward as well. THAT would have been a much more interesting moral dilemma for Miles.
He loves his uncle, but knows his uncle is a Super Criminal. He also can't reveal who he is, as there will be conflict, and can't turn him in as that will put miles in a Foster Home and maybe away from the city and his friends and aunt may. So he has to juggle that life at home, and anytime he runs into his uncle committing crimes. He also needs to balance his lifestyle, cause his uncle could find out the truth and would demand answers if he was say out all night or day when he shouldn't be.
THAT would be a hell of an arch to see for Miles, and would fit the Spiderman's persona Dilemma better.
counterpoint to Miles not being accountable for his great ability; he doesn't want to be. He tries to escape the school he earned his way into, his great ability got him in, but he wants out. Perhaps it's not exactly what you mean, but learning to accept his power as spiderman helps him realize that his ability for school is also something he should accept.
basically, he learns how to accept himself through learning how to accept his new powers.
and the fight with Kingpin is not about if he can win or not, it's showing that he has accepted and learned how to be not only spiderman, but himself.
3:54 "saving people hunting things" me is that a supernatural reference
You know who I want to see next? Gru, from the Despicable Me series. It'd be great to "celebrate" the new Minions movie coming out soon. Or, if not that, GLaDOS from the Portal series. Please.
Couldn't the fact that miles was crumbling when pressure is applied to anything school, spiderman and so forth fearing failure and letting people down a form of sharking responsibility
One thing kind of interesting, when Peter reexamines his personal biases, the initial figure looks a lot like the Traditional, Otto doc ock.
“I wear a mask to protect those I love.” - Batman
Hey, do you ever plan on making a video on Ash from pokemon? Not all of him, giving how he have more movies than most characters in the MCU, plus the anime, but just to explain why he is the representation of chaotic good in your alingment chart, not that I disagree, I would just like to hear your argument
I really want to see you redoing this after across the spiderverse
It's a both timers. Miles already has the understanding of sacrifice. That's why he Dawned the mantle of Spider-Man and took up the responsibility. He just lack the confidence to do.
Only nitpick I have with this video is that you don't understand the threat of Kingpin. He is basically borderline superhuman as well.
Edit
He causes the concrete to shatter in the scene he kills Spider-Man so he has his characteristic kinda super strength at least.
I'm pretty sure Kingpin is just wearing an overlarge suit
Peter Porker, the Spectacle Spider-Ham is basically a toon pig in his universe. He eats non-sentiant pork (pigs are omnivores, and will resort to cannibalism if no other source of food is available). And, did I mention he is a toon? Toons tend to be more chaotic by nature.
Oh, and Peter Porker doesn't have an Uncle Ben at all. He was a toon spider turned into a pig after being bit by a temporary radioactive Aunt May Porker, mad scientist who somehow believes that the spider who lived in her basement is now her nephew and a pig like herself.
I’d actually be interested to see a “What alignment is” on Michael Bay’s version of Optimus Prime. For a paragon of freedom and justice, he does some distinctly non-lawful good things.
For example: climax of the third movie: He kills Megatron in cold blood, immediately after Megatron SAVED HIS LIFE and OFFERED A TRUCE. Definitely chaotic neutral.
Although now my head is imploding because of the question of whether following a code that “every living being deserves freedom” makes you lawful or chaotic
I would suggest that starting Miles and Gwen off as Neutral would make more sense, and D&D editions give children True Neutral moralities as default. Mainly because children don't have the experience, or adult perspective leading to true maturity, to fully form a firm alignment yet. True, there can be tendencies, but for core rule D&D it's be children/adolescence classified as True Neutral.
Oh, and this wasn't a reflection of the quality of your content. Just me picking at it because I enjoyed it so much!
Keep making your content. It's great :)
tbh the scene when they discover doc ock really does work like a dnd session. They to stealth in, then peter tries persuasion, then they just take the pc and run.
Edit: same with infiltrating fisk disguised as waiters
Honestly your nitpicks of this movie and Miles character arc make some spicy points. Buttt... since this is just a "Miles Introduction Story", I am soo ready for a sequel and how we can see Miles grow from here. He has become his own Spiderman but tha is not the end of his story.
In the comics aswell him and Gwen develop from friends into a full blown relationship and it is actually fairly well written. Exploring how 2 spider people being together works in practice and how a strong friendship and trust leads to a healthy relationship which is... actually hard to find sometimes in Comics.
Anyways old video but great one. Keep it up.
Great episode! Suggestion for the next one: What D&D alignment is Sesshomaru from Inuyasha. Keep up the fantastic work.
I appreciate your opinion on the movie, I love your alignment videos the production and entertainment value are way over 9k, & I wouldn't mind hearing more of your Tabletop mini stories
King pin isn’t fat he only looks like that but it’s actually muscle 💪🏻
When you already use a different VPN but you watch the sponsorship bit anyway to keep watch time up.
just clicking the link helps
What a subtle intro
I call myself a people person lol
I've always been of the mind that yes, Miles Morales is a different Spiderman. in most versions he's trained by Peter Parker without the multiverse insanity that this movie has. He aspires to live up to a legacy he feels short of, even though he's fully capable of living up to, and possibly surpassing the legacy of the original Spiderman.
My personal hot take is that all the powers have literally nothing to do with spiders. Spiders already have cool abilities like breathing underwater trapping oxygen on their legs or surviving impacts that could kill common people because of a different breathing apparatus. I like that they're looking at new powers to fresh up the characters but it just doesn't feel like spiderman. It feels like some other generic superhero with a somewhat spiderman-esq backstory. Also not wearing a mask is chaotic evil.
Spider-Man is about accountability all the other spider people learned they had to be accountable to the needs of others based on the consequences of their selfish actions. Miles is already accountable for the people around him. he learns self accountability by embracing himself and making sure he has the motivation and self drive to be the spiderperson the city needs for the long haul. He teaches this to the other spider people, mainly Peter b. B focuses solely on his uncles dying words “with great power comes great response” and sacrifices everything including his friends, family and self worth. He lives in a mess and gets dragged into a rut. Spiderverse is a reflection on no matter how important your work is you need to be accountability for your own wellbeing and happiness because when you work yourself to the bone your work suffers. With great responsibility comes the need for the need for self gratification.
I like that kingpin is a giant square
A bit of an odd one, but could you maybe do one of these for the siblings, maybe also for the cat, from the movie The Cat with a Hat?
I just like that movie a lot, and it's kinda interesting, considering the Mentor, the cat, is a truly chaotic character.
Debunking your "Miles universe is implied to be ours" thing, he doesn't know what Comic-Con is, which while you could argue he's just never heard of, that's very hard to believe
that's actually a really good point
The kingpin is not fat, that is literally all muscle
I wouldn't mind episodes on either of the two live action Spidermen we have who's stories are finished. Then maybe if this is still going when Disney retires our current Spiderman you could do him aswell.
WHATS UP DANGER!?
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do "what Alignment is Catra from She-Ra and the princesses of power?"
I always seen Miles character arc has being overwhelmed by great expectations from everyone. I don't explain myself well so I would recommend watching Everything Great About Spider-Man Into Spiderverse.
0:30
He was not in a pandemic at the time, he went to a Spider-Man related event and that is the reason he's wearing it, but yes, if they were in a pandemic, and that mask was FDA approved, he would have been responsible, I don't understand why you ask
Anybody else wanna see miles pull out that toon force hammer and smack someone silly with it?
Aren't all vigilantes either neutral good or chaotic good since it's going behind the law for the sake of good
suggestion for the next one what alignment would ratchet and clank be through out the ps2 era
of games (rac 1-size matters i wouldn't count secrect agent clank due to it being a spin off game but if need be it would have to be after up your arsenal in plot line)
Just ran across this channel today and I will be digging through your videos.
This is great and I appreciate your work.
@TheLoadingCrew watch wisecrack's breakdown of the film and miles’ arc. might change your perspective a bit
Man, the "Peter B. Parker is/should be Toby's Spidey" thing bothers me so much.
Spiderverse is kind of a celebration of Spider-Man's source material, the comic books. Peter B. is from from the 616 universe (which is the main comic continuity), and all of the other spider people have their own comic books.
I don't know, it sounds nitpicky, but I feel like bringing film versions of Spidey kinda ruins it. He's more than the movies.
Also I think you only dislike Miles' journey because you're trying to see it through the lenses of the classic Peter Parker story, but Miles isn't Peter. The thing about "anyone can be Spider-Man" wouldn't work as well if the movie implied you must go through one specific arc.
Kingpin is also more than just "an old fat guy", he's a giant and a powerhourse. Even if you're not familiar with the character, they clearly tried to show that with his design. Damaged Peter or not, what he did was scary.
Also, the previous film Spider-Man thingy (although only with previous villains) is done anyway with No Way Home, so in a very reductive sense you have comic Spider-Men and film Spider-Men mergings.
Miles' uncle died because Miles chose to use his powers to stop Kingpin which led prowler to sacrifice himself for Miles which he likely wouldn't have done for anyone else
8:52 I know that this teacher is right in this case, but you don't necessarily have to know what's right to know what's wrong
Just so you know, Kingpin isn't fat. That's pure muscle.
I gotta disagree with with what you said about Gwen and Peter B at the end the reason Gwen feels guilty is (implied) to be that of the same reason as the comics and that is the fact when Gwen got her powers Peter felt left behind for lack of better phrasing so in an attempt to be like her he developed the lizard serum but he lost himself Gwen believing that the lizard killed peter killed the lizard killing peter (bit contrived but its comics) and as such blames herself for peters death and as such distances herself from people justifying it by saying she protecting them when in reality she was trying to protect herself and the reason Peter B and MJ divorced is because peter didn't feel ready for kids while MJ was ready this created tension and with the already built up tension of being Spiderman and having to bury aunt may puts to much strain on their relationship and they divorce and judging by MJ's reaction at the end of the movie she it
I feel you but the way I saw this movie it’s not Spider-Man this isn’t miles movie it’s the intro to the spider verse and everyone in it could hold their own movie/shorts series
Miles is not shy
For those wondering what new Spider-heroes should show up in Spider-verse 2, I’m gonna let you know that Spider-Cat, Spider-Knight, and Spider-Pirate are all real versions of Peter.
1: ITS *"SPIDER-MAN"* THERES A HYPHEN FFS
2: i'd update the title to say 'every *main* spider-man' for the sake of having a *bit* more accuracy but thats less vital
There's some moments of Lawful Neutral as well - character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her. Order and organization are paramount to her. She may believe in personal order and live by a code or standard, or she may believe in order for all and favor a strong, organized government.
Peter B Parker is the spider man from the main comic universe, 616. The ideal spider man and miles are from the main parallel universe which is comic canon. I don’t know why they add the confusion of adding the B to make this unclear but with a little research you can clearly see they B Parker is just the original comic spider man but after many many years of time and development.
yeah. but the original spiderman wasn't jewish...at least I don't think....wait...was mary jane jewish?
I don’t wear a mask because I want to speed up the chances of humanity ending along with myself.