What D&D Alignment is Spiderman (Tobey Maguire)
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- Опубліковано 10 гру 2021
- In celebration of Spiderman: No Way Home we take a look at Toby Maguire's Spiderman from the original Same Raimi trilogy! Next week we're taking a look at all of the villains!~
Writer: Stuart, CinemafreakX
Editor: Xthedarkone
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#dnd #spiderman #NoWayHome - Ігри
I'm a little sad we at least didn't get a ding for JJJ for when he refused to sell out Peter when Goblin was threatening his life. Massive Lawful Good
I always had massive respect for JJJ when he did that
When a man's life is on the line, the true content of his character will be revealed.
I would say lawful good leaning towards neutral good I would say chaotic good but those two aren’t near each other
I always tear up when I hear stan lee say that one person can make a difference
Interesting how much he moved on the alignment wheel throughout it. Started as True Neutral, then was almost Chaotic Evil, uncle Ben died, got Neutralized again, then Neutral Good, almost Lawful even, Venom took over so Chaotic Neutral, and finally settled on Chaotic Good.
What a wild ride.
And that's a wild ride with which I totally disagree. That's the nice thing about D&D alignments. You can interpret actions in different ways. For example, allowing the guy who ultimately murders Uncle Ben to run past him with the stolen money wasn't Chaotic Evil. It was Chaotic Neutral. Peter was right in that it wasn't his problem. That kind of thing happens quite a bit, like the author of this was trying to skew the results to get them to move around quite a bit. The worst was the symbiote. By doubling the results, it skewed much further. It should've had actually less of an effect on overall movement because it wasn't entirely Peter doing the acting. Peter's alignment shouldn't have shifted hardly at all under the influence of the symbiote. Without that extra effect, he'd have been a pretty solid Neutral Good, right where he should've been. The idea that Peter is Chaotic Good. I just don't buy it at all.
@@Michael-cf9cj Lettign him run past might be neutral but rubbing it in to the victim is evil
@@frankwest5388 I'm not sure making a snide comment is evil and it certainly isn't evil enough to move the bar.
@@Michael-cf9cj yeah it isn’t enough to move it.
But imagine if the person making the video saw it like that.
Would be kinda funny
@@frankwest5388 The entire MCU would be evil because they're all making snide comments. Well, maybe not all of them. Vision, for example, although I didn't watch Wandavision.
That moment in Spidey 1, where the Goblin attacks the Bugle, is super interesting. At this point, Peter isn't even part of the Bugle, he's independent and Jonah knows that. He's also JUST left the room. And there the Goblin is demanding the photographer. What is Jonah's reaction? To say he doesn't know the photographer and all the photos are sent through the mail. He never wavers, even in the face of certain death by the Goblin's hands and refuses to say otherwise. It's a Nat 20 scene for Jonah, and probably one of the best written scenes the character has ever had.
13:38 I didn't remember this scene but I paused this video, went back to watch, and *wow* that was powerful in several ways - Peter owning up to his inaction, as well as preferring Aunt May know the truth instead of lying to herself as being responsible. Nat 20 scene for me.
I can’t wait to see the nat 20 meme scene
...which one!?
@@King_Nex I think he’s referring to the dance
Personally I can’t wait for him to align sandman
@@jackmack4181 He does not align sandman
I totally agree with your take on Miles Morales, while I love the character and Into The Spider-verse is a goddamn Masterpiece, He journey is far more boring then Peters. Its just due to Peter being a very flawed hero who makes a lot of mistakes and in Toby's version even does selfish egotistical things despite being a relatively heroic person. It's real.
So If Peter had donned the Symbiote at any other time, would it turning itself and Peter evil not have been a thing? Cause from what I understand it latched onto the feelings of anger and revenge that he was feeling at the time while hunting down Sandman, and thus imprinted those emotions on its self and fed it back to the host so it could feed off of it more. So if Peter had it in a more positive time in his life, would it have amplified those positive emotions instead? Idk just theory crafting
Well, it is a "Symbiote" so probably yes? It might still have made him a bit less heroic if it could since it would want his survival to be all but garantied but could also have gone in a more defensive manner rather than the more offensive if it was fed from his more positive emotions (Since it wouldn't want him to stop saving people since he obviously gets happy about helping others to some exstend)
Yeah I'm pretty sure, like in the comics
In the comics, most Klyntar/Symbionts search for noble warriors to bond with and help the universe.
However, some of them are corrupted by evil hosts. Venom's first host was a genocidal war criminal who killed an entire planet, essentially making Venom addicted to anger and hatred.
It's kinda tragic, like taking a newborn baby and teaching it to be a monster.
So if the movie followed this lore, Venom was always going to try making Peter evil, but it could be taught to be better with enought time (recent Venom is a lot more heroic).
@@heitoras4823 The Venom Symbiote (in the comics) also had bonded to Deadpool before it bonded to Peter (chronologically anyway. That lore bit might've gotten added after the Symbiote made its debut).
In hindsight, that also corrupted the symbiote. Not only by evil from its first host, but by Deadpool's insanity as well.
Donned*
Honestly, I feel like these movies Capture the Comic Book spider man the best. He'd a nerd that gets picked on. He gets bitten and gets full of himself. His actions lead to the death of his uncle and hits him hard. Follows strongly with the Philosophy of 'With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility'. And of course, how hectic it is to balance two lives, and that 'With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility' also comes with a massive burden. To do what's right, even if it hurts yourself, your relationships, your school life, your jobs. As shown with MJ, where even after she learned he is spider man and accepted him for it, there was still conflict with him having to go out and save the city, and missing out on subtle things going on back at home.
What makes Spider Man so great, and why I love all 3 of these movies, is that 'With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility' is a massive burden. That no one can Handle. And yet Spider Man, if his own free will, stands up and does it. No one else in the MC Universe does this. They handle Threats, sure, but you don't see Thor stopping a Mugging, or Iron Man, or Black Widow, or that guy with the Bow. Spider Man, is the only one that actually Patrols his city, Stops ALL Crimes, big and small, and the only one to actually understand the Morals, and Responsibility of having his powers. And these 3 movies give a great snapshot of that.
----
And to prove how great of a Hero Spider Man is, he is the ONLY Hero, where the Literal MC God, The One Above All, came down to visit, and talk. And it's a fucking great Comic, and great Moment.
I feel like if the symbiote suit amplifies emotions and makes people act on impulses they would usually ignore, it should have been half steps, not double.
Interesting take, but I would have halved the alignment shifts from the symbiote, not doubled. Because even though the decisions are Peter's, it's the symbiotes influence that is making him more aggressive than he would be otherwise.
5:30 even if only for bit, it's pretty surprising Spiderman came this close to chaotic evil alignment.
word it was surprising
Seeing him on the table makes me really want a Kenpachi Zaraki episode, even though we all know what he lands on
Yup chaotic neutral
"You need to get down now, I have to rampage."
Is there a chance you will cover the "Murder Drones" pilot? (Day 6)
Ah, Spiderman, a classical villain. I mean, we all know he is just a MENACE TO THE CITY RIGHT?!
I heard he is the one responsible for chemtrails too!
10:07 "He looses his pizza job with Admiral Zhao..." XD
The Sam Raimi spider trilogy is fantastic on a lot of fronts.
Norman Osborne is amazingly portrayed and infinitely memorable. His death is... It sticks with ya...
Harry Osborne's arc throughout the three movies is respectfully tragic
Doc Oc is probably the highlight of the series, and is pretty much the template for making future versions of the character (he's the reason why the PS4 Spider-Man version of Doc Oc was also amazing).
Sandman is actually an interesting character, I like how they made him into a more redeemable villain.
Venom is the most notorious part of the series, and while not my favorite, he still presents a good threat
Of course, for the best Spider-Man film of all time, look no further than the masterpiece known as Into the Spiderverse
Also, I think this deserves a sequel as this version of Peter REALLY got his shit together and is by far the purest of the three Spider Men in No Way Home.
Silly Stuart, the best way to prevent your players from bullying you is to just bully them first.
I have a video that discribes what I'm about to say better, but the scene where peter tells aunt may about how uncle ben was killed and it being his fault is a moment I like to call, "a human moment". It's the moment where the story begins to be more than just what you see. In rpgs, it's the moment where it's no long a game, but a moment that will stick with you forever because of the intense feelings you felt in that moment. Ever cried or scream in excitement? That's human moments that makes ttrpgs so worth playing.
Had a blast watching this. I’m excited for next week for the baddies and Andrew Garfield. Great job Stuart and X!
Since Peter was under the influence of the symbiote I would've personally made every action only move Peter's alignment half as much as it normally would instead of double
ye
But it amplifies emotions. So any actions, has double the motives behind it, not half. If the Symbiote was Sentient and it's own creature, and thus was pulling and controlling Peter to do these things, instead of Peter on his own, I would agree with you.
But the Symbiote doesn't control Spiderman. It makes his emotions higher than normal, but Peter still 100% had full control. All the way up till when he tried to forcefully rip the suit off, and even then, it was just the suit trying to cling to him, and didn't control his limbs to make him stop.
Peter Parker, at that time, of his own free will, was running off those higher emotions, and let himself get lost into those emotions, without care of anyone else. He 100% could have chosen not to, but he chose to do it.
So I 100% agreed to Doubling the dings.
Agreed. Cursed/evil items that manipulate or compel the user don't change alignment unless the user elects to continue enjoying the power of the item despite its effects. Peter ultimately rejected the symbiote because he knew it was evil.
@@Jirodyne I agree with Jacked. While it does amplify emotions, the idea that Peter had control isn't entirely accurate. It's like being hyped up on drugs without realizing it. You do things you would normally never do and act in ways from which your normal self would recoil. I'm not suggesting everything Peter did under the influence of the symbiote is outside the norm. Fighting Sandman and killing him as revenge for the death of Uncle Ben. No problem. Acting like a total douche towards Mary Jane? Completely unrealistic that Peter would do that. But all of it was done when he wasn't fully in control of his emotions and thus the actions should have a reduced impact on his alignment. He should end up firmly in the Neutral Good camp by the end of the movie.
You know, Scar from Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood would be a very interesting one to do.
He looks cool but Winry doesn’t like him very much.
After watching the accumulation of all the different spider men. I would gather that Spider-Man is essentially a Neutral good character to his core. He will do what he thinks is right no matter what, even if the law is against him.
21:36 The editors are straight up fighting Stuart over whether or not this scene is a masterpiece, and that’s hilarious to me. 😂
But I gotta side with Stuart here. It’s a hilarious masterpiece. 👌
Jameson gets Lawful Neutral for explaining the legal distinction between slander and libel.
Peter’s Symbol changing to b&w after retaliating against his friend was a great touch 👏
Peter kissing Gwen was honestly chaotic stupid.
sure was!!
I hope you do a D&D alignment about J. Jonah Jameson one day, because, let's be real - J.K. Simmons is a Nat 20 actor.
I've been waiting for this one
100% agree with ya dude. Toby is best Spider-man.
Spider man is dat guy.
Let's get an xthedarkone alignment vid.
"Uncle ben what happended?" "SQUID GA-"
4:50 this is probably the one scene in a mainstream movie that actually crushes me just because it's so fucking sad
*hugs* your a good DM stuart
I know it’s been a year, and I know that there’s probably comments about this ON the Miles video, but I’m just gonna comment this here:
In Ultimate Comics: Spider-Man in 2011, the beginning of Miles’ comic career after his debut in Ultimate Fallout #4, Miles is bitten by the spider, then after dealing with his powers for a while, witnesses the Ultimate Peter Parker’s death. He chooses to become Spider-Man out of guilt for not helping.
So in the original source material, the guilt Miles feels for not helping to prevent Peter’s death is the trigger for becoming Spider-Man.
"Genetically Engineered" Spider in this version
Also, Peter put Eddie into the Situation that got him into the Symbiote to turn him into Venom
Peter made his own Enemy there, *Neutral Evil*
Good job
SO EXCITED
JJ not selling out Peter as the photographer would have been a nice action to glance at. Otherwise good video. My stance on the different actors is Toby is a good nerd character but lacks the wit and humor of Spiderman, Andrew had good wit and humor but I never believed that he was a nerd. Tom I think is a good balance of both and because they know the MCU is stable both Marvel and Sony are taking their time with his characterization more then the original Trilogy or Amazing Spiderman movies got to.
been saving this, toby migiures spider man holds a special place in my heart as the most complete and beautiful of the spider mans... though the adorable new mcu spider man is very high up there on my list as well. that death scene still hurts to remember.
12:06 Happy Gilmore reference. 👌
These movies are so hard for me to rewatch just because of how fucking rude literally everyone is to Peter
17:53 When Joaquin Phoenix's Joker kisses a stranger you say it's Chaotic/Evil but when Peter does something very similar, but with his fiancée looking on, you say it's just Chaotic/Neutral. It seems to me that there is a lack of consistency here. In my opinion, in both cases it is Chaotic/Neutral because in both they give in to their impulses without really wanting to hurt anyone, they are just selfish in that moment.
What about Bully Maguire?
lol I never caught that slander vs liable scene..😂
The tray catch at 2:50 should have been a Nat 20 scene because he completely got it with SEVERAL layers of advantage as he actually caught all the items without special effects...just lots of takes.
You're forgetting one thing about Miles. 90% of his stories have PETER PARKER DIE. Miles got his powers BEFORE that happened and hated himself afterwords because he could have used his powers to help Peter, which might have averted Peter's death.
So nostalgic.
YEEEES, my favorite Spiderman!
17:45 yes I agree with this.
Just a good video for once and I thought of Toby Maguire's Spiderman to be more on Neutral Good.
18:00 i would argue is netrual good or chaotic good he is not doing to be a sleezy or to be a dick but to make gwen happy and the crowd
So, a Chaotic Good canon Spider-Man who was a teen comic icon for a long-long time and did dabble in other alignments via thoughts and actions still prioritized his moral compass over everything else, no matter how mad, to do the right thing? So... he's a Chaotic Good hero who kept being Chaotic Good.
I am pleasantly surprised seeing how this channel often blurs the lines between chaos as evil/amoral/anti-moral and lawful as good/moral/morally absolute.
7:30 Are you sure that one's not chaotic-good? It was an altruistic good summeriten move, but it was also kind of wreackless, and he's defying police orders.
I literally just did his alignment as I watched the Raimi trilogy. lol.
I had to do a double take when you said "Admiral Zhao" at 10:08. Then I did some research. Yep, it's the same actor. Who'da thunk it?
I agree that they tried to make Miles a bit too perfect wich makes no sense for a Spider-Man and really for Marvel heroes in general.
I admit that I was more of a DC kid so my knowledge of Marvel Comics is a bit lacking but while Superman is my favorite hero because he is a paragon, someone who can see and hear all the ugliness of humanity in the hemisphere he is in but still chooses to do the right thing every time.
But Marvel heroes have always been more nuanced, you have heroes that need a dose of humility (Thor) or have problem abusing alcohol (Tony Stark, the OG Carol Danvers) or even more heavy substances.
Peter started when he was 16 so his flaws were his immaturity and many of his problems are of his own making from the tragic (Uncle Ben) to the sadly funny (a time he invited a girl to a date that went badly, because he tried to show off he ended up don't having money to the ride back home).
Miles and the movie version of Captain Marvel feel to me that they lack thise flaws that make Marvel heroes feel so human.
Spider-Gwen does this a lot better with her own backstory.
He literally just gained monk levels out of nowhere.
Personally, I know a lot of kids in my home town who have been bad since middle school and never changed, so the general take of "They're neutral because they're young" doesn't sit right with me. Maybe a child child I can see being viewed as neutral no matter what, but a lot of teenagers stay as shitty people for years to come and never change or vice versa where they are good people and don't change either. It's definitely not 100% or even a majority, but it happens more often than anyone would like to admit.
this is a good point for sure. i just haven't really come across a kid (at least in most fictional works yet) that start evil or good. Dio Brando and Kuzco are RARE examples
@@TheLoadingCrew uninteresting for alignment though he is, Jim Lake from Trollhunters: Tales of Arcadia is a good example of a good aligned teen from the bery start
@@TheLoadingCrew I suppose that makes sense. Fictional kids probably follow more of the majority rather than the minority of it, right?
liked and here is a comment for algarithom
This one is the Only real spiderman for me. Just because of Nostalgia in the Movies.
Stepping out of the way would be… lawful evil? I don’t think that’s chaotic evil as he had time and motive to be evil.
I'll back you up in the take "Miles is Boring Comparatively". Dude was bland in comics and shows for *ages*. Spiderverse succeeded in improving him a bit, but that was a pretty low bar to begin with.
I would *absolutely* download a car.
4:17 It's still pretty funny to me ngl
I remember never really liking MJ in the movies lol to me, she was jumping into serious relationships engagements too ,i thought these movies took place in a very very short time i was like , shes really getting married that quick XD
That's a kid I had no idea what he meant by bike messenger.. lol
Also, its not really fair to blame Peter for that. He had no way of knowing that guy was gonna kill his uncle nor does Aunt May know that he's Spiderman and would have ANY means of taking on an armed robber.
no, but since he *specifically* let the guy go as revenge and not like...panic i guess, it's kinda evil. he did it to be a dick
@@TheLoadingCrew True but the guy was trying to rip him off. And even if it was kind of a dick move-he had no reasonable way of knowing that he was going to kill Uncle Ben (or technically spook Flint into accidentally killing Ben-which makes it even less Peter's fault than he thought).
i give the intro to this video a nat 20.
Ooo how about Count Olaf from either the movie or the Netflix series
Corridor Digitals take on bad Spider Men is worth a watch or two.
You should do an alignment video on Catra from She-Ra and the Princesses of Power
I haven’t caught up with season three yet.
I agree. Miles is boring compared to Peter. Even from his introduction it felt like a Great Value Spider-Man was being forced upon us when there was nothing wrong with the original product.
Also, wouldn't it make sense to give Peter half movement for the symbiote since it amplifies his emotions and actions? Most of the things he does as symbiote Peter are not things he'd normally do. It seems like you have it backwards giving him double movement on the alignment chart for it.
16:34 did peter's webs just make a rubber band sound?
I would have pinned Spiderman as Neutral Good, he's a guy that does what is right irrelevant of what other people say, but always looks out for everyone if he can, although considering the symbiote interference I can see why he balanced out as Chaotic Good by the end of the trilogy.
I figured him to be lawful good myself.
@@whitelasagna6786 Honestly any of the Good alignments can work for spidey, if the public and police are against him, Chaotic, if he's universally loved and doesn't waver in his devotion to protecting people, Lawful, somewhere in between? Neutral. He probably leans Lawful most of the time, but the Bugle often breeds some contempt in the people so that balances things toward Neutral.
You should do an alignment for dexter.
How is Jameson not a general Natural 20 casting here?
4:50 I vehemently disagree. I'd ding this as chaotic good, or at worst chaotic neutral, actually: The robber, at this point, has done nothing morally wrong if you'd ask me, given his choice of target. Robbing a robber isn't evil, and wage theft is still theft.
He should do Conan the barbarian (NOT THE 2018 REMAKES) i am very curious where he'd end up i'd put money on chaotic good
Do one for Mr Aziz
His alignment is Stupid-Stupid.
Whoa! Why are the performance rolls that low for the dancing? Shouldn't that be 18, 20 respectfully?
you're right. I totally made a mistake there. I will correct this in future videos
J.J.J. alightment video when?
I don't know if this has been answered before, but how are the numbers determined for the rolls/stats? Is it random? An actual dice roll? A poll on which numbers from 1-20?
the dice rolls are fun nonsense for me and the other editors. we put whatever the hell we want there most of the time
I still say that a huge boon to Miles Morales would be to just stop using the name Spider-Man. Go and take up the Tarantula moniker or make a whole new persona. Using the name Spider-Man just invites unfavorable comparisons for the sake of riding coat tails.
Also Toby is the GOAT.
ultimate spider man used kid-arachnid
@@dragolorian4526 I mean that's fine, I guess? What you really want to shoot for is something that has the same type of punch to it that the name "Batman Beyond" has. Same idea of a legacy character, but with notable differences such as a totally different personality, a different but memorable name, and possibly a new setting.
@@spartanhawk7637 in-character stuff is also important, as miles takes on the spider man title to respect Peter
@@dragolorian4526 Oh absolutely, I'm just saying they stuck WAY too close to a Peter-like personality when they made Miles. Might try giving him...I dunno, darker streaks are a bit played out, maybe make him EVEN MORE of a bleeding heart hero or something.
It's actually spelled Tobey, not Toby. JSYK.
Wait, Xthedarkone, as in Yugioh GX abridged, Xthedarkone???
yes
I’m sorry sir but I have to disagree with the ignoring the mugging thing. Not even calling the cops or making some kind of scene and just leaving random person to get possibly beaten to death has to be some kind of evil right?
I'm curious. Do Norman Osborn and the Green Goblin have seperate alignments? Or are they treated as a single entity?
Maybe count the Goblin juice like the Symbiote in Film 3; not a full split personality, but rather letting your more selfish/vengeful/etc. inner desires take control.
@@endarkculi I don't think I can do that. I see this Norman Osborn and Green Goblin as a Jekyll and Hyde. A good but conflicted man gives into temptation, subjects himself to a chemical experiment, and is slowly consumed by the pure evil he creates within himself. But that's just my take.
5:20 uuh what? He iced that guy, cold-blooded. Was the movie George Lucas'ed over the years?
so … please talk about the totally not mark thing since he just did a review of these movies and toei screwed him over we need all the help we can get
I recorded this 3 months ago...most of this stuff is already finished sadly...
i’m glad you know about it and thanks for caring
Spider-Man*. Respect the hyphen.
comment trap success :)
L take in regards to Miles, but good video nonetheless.
Bruh Miles ain’t boring, just different.
You do not have a legal duty help anyone in the us hell it is Supreme Court ruling that the police don't even have a duty to step into danger to help ppl
Miles Morales is boring marysue spiderman. Stronger, faster, electric powers as well. He is just boring.