Helaena hyping up Daemon, the man who got her child killed while berating Aemond about his death. It just didn’t make sense. They both die, why did she approach it like that? Felt the hand of the writer sm in that scene
as a woman, my problem with the ending of alicent's arc this season is the fact that her "liberation" from the patriarchy is framed around the complete abandonment of her moral, her conscience, her duty and her love for her children. only after she is humbled, humiliated by having rhaenyra throwing everything back in her face and admitting that everything rhaenyra did is right, does she achieve freedom. meanwhile, we're shown that rhaenyra, now embracing her responsibilities as a ruler, is caged in. young rhaenyra and alicent are set up as 2 extremes, one is free without any care for responsibility, the other subscribes to patriarchal values and prioritizes duty to the detriment of her own happiness. ideally, you should strive to fall somewhere in-between those 2 extremes. but the show, whether intentional or not, is saying that the path to freedom from the patriarchy is doing what young rhaenyra did. is this the progressive message of the show? seems like a pretty dangerous brand of feminism to me.
I liked that the show gave us Daemon's journey of having to confront his ego and choosing to decrease its power over him in favor of trying to help preserve Westeros in the long run. I would have preferred they used his journey to delve even deeper into lore/magic and the role of the Old Gods in influencing current and future events. In general, I always want to see more of the magical elements (including dragons) and how smallfolk are affected by/react to the machinations of the nobility. For example, it was interesting seeing Aegon experience the result of his prior choices (physical suffering, loss of power, etc) however, that needs to be balanced with more scenes of those affected BY his choices (the continuing effects on the woman he sexually assaulted and the families of the ratcatchers, etc)
Glad I wasn't alone in thinking it was a huge let down - this whole season was too slow paced and really left us at end of season 2 with not enough - now we have to wait 2 years for season 3! Seems like they should be giving us more when we are waiting so long between seasons!
People who get high on theorising which characters will end up in a relationship. Relation shippers. It's this TV subculture that has ruined storytelling on TV@@wKFaded
It wasn’t good. If they landed it, it would’ve left some goodwill and made up for a lot of issues from this season. But they didn’t land it and imo some characters (Alicent) are just…ruined.
As a person who really liked rhaenicent in the first season, they ruined it. I hated both scenes because they forced it and sacrificed their characters core values to do it. Alicent’s main motivation first season was to protect her kids, to have her sacrifice her kids. She basically is a villain, history was right. She primed them their entire lives for war and then she left them when she couldn’t handle it anymore.
Totally agree good episode terrible Finale. I was also shouting No at the TV. 2 years who knows how we will all feel about waiting and having the same thing all over again.
The first 4 episodes where better than last 4 by quite abit. I still enjoyed as whole just glad to have a good show to watch in my favorite universe a song of ice and fire. I really think the 2 episode cut and writer strike influenced the later parts of the season. I have faith in them for season 3.
Alicent and Rhaenyra scene is the worst aspect of the season. This woman stood in front of her son to potentially take dragon fire. This mother would never sacrifice her kids! She is as horrible as Stannis now.
Variety’s finale review put it best in the end… Variety wrote: “We know more death is coming, a certainty that colors every interaction and scene to stomach-twisting effect. What’s the rush to see it arrive?” and that’s where I’m at too… we all know how this story ends given how GOT starts… selfishly I want to spend as much time with these characters and dragons as possible so for me all the character work and buildup and story groundwork that’s being laid I just love. Also I think of the hypocrisy of some of the criticisms coming from people who bitched and complained about the last two seasons of GOT being filled with action but not enough character and story build up… it’s like the shows can’t win… damn if they do and if they don’t
Sadly boring sums up this whole season and desperately needed more episodes, If D&D has served this season up the fandom would be going nuts but these showrunners and the fandom just give them a free pass
It does feel a bit sexist how the show is portraying the women. I totally get the whole patriarchy angle but they swung the pendulum too far and it makes me just miss the woman in GOT
@@LunarHexagon They make women magical angels, virgin mary archetypes all of them. Even Alys Rivers and Mysaria. It is as if women cant be ambitious and ruthless in their pursuit to get power, ironically it is a deeply patriarchal myth. They should study real queens like queen elizabeth or katherine the great instead. The conflict between Alicent and Rhaenyra should be similar to the hate between queen Mary and Elizabeth. George bases his characters on historical characters and not wishy washy modern ideology. Cersei was in the end much more complex than Alicent, and more importantly: consistent. Alicent takes the prize for worst mother of all time for first influencing his son to hate Rhaenyra, then forces him to claim the throne, and then makes him feel useless, leading to him beeing burned and last of all accepting to sacrifice him to join team Rhaenyra. Alicent should go tell Rhaenyra to take her head and spare Aegon since she was the one who forced Aegon to usurp Rhaenyra.
Lot of complaints from season 2, but biggest complain is they just overdone Alicent. In the books alicent don't have much to do during war & to compensate it they just so much of pointless stuff for alicent. I mean otto plot was over after he was removed from hand of the king by Aegon & showrunner just do right thing by disappearing him and creates a sense of mystery around his absense instead of adding pointless stuff around him. But for alicent they just done exact opposite like useless river scene, fucking cole or her two (no reason) meeting with rhenrya. Tbh alicent is really a dumb useless character now. She done wrong parenting of Aegon, forced him to challenge rhenrya, made him king & also responsible for his injuries and now she is gifting his head to rhenrya and making all his childrens life in danger so that she and her daughter can live freely.
Helaena hyping up Daemon, the man who got her child killed while berating Aemond about his death. It just didn’t make sense. They both die, why did she approach it like that? Felt the hand of the writer sm in that scene
They couldn't show the girl at least claiming the dragon. She ran through the entire episode. Stupid cliff hangers. 😢
as a woman, my problem with the ending of alicent's arc this season is the fact that her "liberation" from the patriarchy is framed around the complete abandonment of her moral, her conscience, her duty and her love for her children. only after she is humbled, humiliated by having rhaenyra throwing everything back in her face and admitting that everything rhaenyra did is right, does she achieve freedom. meanwhile, we're shown that rhaenyra, now embracing her responsibilities as a ruler, is caged in. young rhaenyra and alicent are set up as 2 extremes, one is free without any care for responsibility, the other subscribes to patriarchal values and prioritizes duty to the detriment of her own happiness. ideally, you should strive to fall somewhere in-between those 2 extremes. but the show, whether intentional or not, is saying that the path to freedom from the patriarchy is doing what young rhaenyra did. is this the progressive message of the show? seems like a pretty dangerous brand of feminism to me.
amazing comment. Thanks for this!
I liked that the show gave us Daemon's journey of having to confront his ego and choosing to decrease its power over him in favor of trying to help preserve Westeros in the long run. I would have preferred they used his journey to delve even deeper into lore/magic and the role of the Old Gods in influencing current and future events. In general, I always want to see more of the magical elements (including dragons) and how smallfolk are affected by/react to the machinations of the nobility. For example, it was interesting seeing Aegon experience the result of his prior choices (physical suffering, loss of power, etc) however, that needs to be balanced with more scenes of those affected BY his choices (the continuing effects on the woman he sexually assaulted and the families of the ratcatchers, etc)
you nailed everything.
its so bizarre comparing the likes of book and this show because they are nothing alike
Glad I wasn't alone in thinking it was a huge let down - this whole season was too slow paced and really left us at end of season 2 with not enough - now we have to wait 2 years for season 3! Seems like they should be giving us more when we are waiting so long between seasons!
Cole scene was the best for me.
42:17 D&D did a really good job at explaining where the show went wrong with the Alicent and Rhaenyra dynamic.
what do they know
When you ruin your main characters to please shippers sigh
Shippers?
People who get high on theorising which characters will end up in a relationship. Relation shippers. It's this TV subculture that has ruined storytelling on TV@@wKFaded
It wasn’t good. If they landed it, it would’ve left some goodwill and made up for a lot of issues from this season. But they didn’t land it and imo some characters (Alicent) are just…ruined.
Lol I agree with Dan the show needs a character like Bronn to say what do you mean you saw it in a dream are you fucking nuts!
As a person who really liked rhaenicent in the first season, they ruined it. I hated both scenes because they forced it and sacrificed their characters core values to do it. Alicent’s main motivation first season was to protect her kids, to have her sacrifice her kids. She basically is a villain, history was right. She primed them their entire lives for war and then she left them when she couldn’t handle it anymore.
Totally agree good episode terrible Finale. I was also shouting No at the TV. 2 years who knows how we will all feel about waiting and having the same thing all over again.
One of the weirdest scenes was showing the dragon riders get their amour on. I was shouting here we go! Then nothing what a waste of a scene.
The first 4 episodes where better than last 4 by quite abit. I still enjoyed as whole just glad to have a good show to watch in my favorite universe a song of ice and fire. I really think the 2 episode cut and writer strike influenced the later parts of the season. I have faith in them for season 3.
Alicent and Rhaenyra scene is the worst aspect of the season. This woman stood in front of her son to potentially take dragon fire. This mother would never sacrifice her kids! She is as horrible as Stannis now.
This whole season they could delete
Variety’s finale review put it best in the end…
Variety wrote: “We know more death is coming, a certainty that colors every interaction and scene to stomach-twisting effect. What’s the rush to see it arrive?”
and that’s where I’m at too… we all know how this story ends given how GOT starts… selfishly I want to spend as much time with these characters and dragons as possible so for me all the character work and buildup and story groundwork that’s being laid I just love.
Also I think of the hypocrisy of some of the criticisms coming from people who bitched and complained about the last two seasons of GOT being filled with action but not enough character and story build up… it’s like the shows can’t win… damn if they do and if they don’t
Sadly boring sums up this whole season and desperately needed more episodes, If D&D has served this season up the fandom would be going nuts but these showrunners and the fandom just give them a free pass
For all the talk about GOT and the female characters writing the females in GOT are much better written
It does feel a bit sexist how the show is portraying the women. I totally get the whole patriarchy angle but they swung the pendulum too far and it makes me just miss the woman in GOT
Explain? What do you mean?
@@LunarHexagon just as Dan explained it
@@jeffbachman2949 didn’t answer my question, at all, but ok.
@@LunarHexagon They make women magical angels, virgin mary archetypes all of them. Even Alys Rivers and Mysaria. It is as if women cant be ambitious and ruthless in their pursuit to get power, ironically it is a deeply patriarchal myth. They should study real queens like queen elizabeth or katherine the great instead. The conflict between Alicent and Rhaenyra should be similar to the hate between queen Mary and Elizabeth. George bases his characters on historical characters and not wishy washy modern ideology. Cersei was in the end much more complex than Alicent, and more importantly: consistent. Alicent takes the prize for worst mother of all time for first influencing his son to hate Rhaenyra, then forces him to claim the throne, and then makes him feel useless, leading to him beeing burned and last of all accepting to sacrifice him to join team Rhaenyra. Alicent should go tell Rhaenyra to take her head and spare Aegon since she was the one who forced Aegon to usurp Rhaenyra.
Yes the female characters of GOT were also much more ambitious
Lot of complaints from season 2, but biggest complain is they just overdone Alicent. In the books alicent don't have much to do during war & to compensate it they just so much of pointless stuff for alicent.
I mean otto plot was over after he was removed from hand of the king by Aegon & showrunner just do right thing by disappearing him and creates a sense of mystery around his absense instead of adding pointless stuff around him.
But for alicent they just done exact opposite like useless river scene, fucking cole or her two (no reason) meeting with rhenrya. Tbh alicent is really a dumb useless character now. She done wrong parenting of Aegon, forced him to challenge rhenrya, made him king & also responsible for his injuries and now she is gifting his head to rhenrya and making all his childrens life in danger so that she and her daughter can live freely.
Ryan Condal and his "writters" are a fraud!!!
Idc i would of preferred a copy and paste scenes from the book, than this mediocrity they gave us. ☠️☠️
So boring.
GOT did visions much better they were much more ambiguous and not so heavy handed
Waste of time!