TV Motion Fixed Finally? No Judder No Stutter, TrueCut Did It!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 тра 2024
- No More Judder & Stutter: TrueCut is a firmware update away so let's get excited about this next gen solution! What Dolby Vision did for HDR, TrueCut does for motion. We interview PixelWorks to see how it works and when we'll get it == Links below:
TV's Motion Problems bit.ly/39jFJ1v
TrueCut white paper bit.ly/2SL8ZtP
TrueCut site www.pixelworks.com/en/truecut
===== Best Movie Watching TVs:
2021 Hisense U8G amzn.to/2RV2Jj3 BB bit.ly/3eL9koX
2021 LG C1 amzn.to/3xCF8UA BB bit.ly/3op4ReXO
2021 Sony A80J amzn.to/3eNPHgg BB bit.ly/3fnPyzf
2021 Samsung QN90A amzn.to/39uWOan BB: bit.ly/3yl4TJB
2021 Sony A90J Master Series amzn.to/3wkRP5W BB: bit.ly/31Cj1Pr
2020 LG CX amzn.to/2QXk9ed BB: bit.ly/3mecXpH
===== Best Large TV Value
75" Sony X950H amzn.to/2R97eqb
86" Samsung TU9000 amzn.to/3iaAOXh
===Movies with Wide Color Gamut
Inside Out amzn.to/2Rq5U1R
Aquaman amzn.to/3dRq7Fb
The Greatest Showman amzn.to/3wLiE3p
The Fifth Element 4K Remastered amzn.to/3d2f3pJ
Batman vs Superman 4K amzn.to/32NWgIY
Test Disc: Spears & Munsil 4K Benchmark amzn.to/3uPKj1e
=== HDMI 2.1 Cables:
$7 RuiPro amzn.to/3ePaD6k
$16 Zeksit Maya amzn.to/2R5YZuQ
$18 Vivify amzn.to/34jKCq2
$150 RuiPro Optical (33 feet) amzn.to/3p60cik
=== Update to RTX3090 PC Build:
Windows 10 OEM PRO bit.ly/2PNzGch
WHOkeys.com (My discount code: SF20)
GPU EVGA Hybrid RTX 3090 bit.ly/3973JWZ or bit.ly/3ccUKW8
Motherboard MSI X570 Unify amzn.to/2HePQeN or MSI B550 Unify amzn.to/2Porl27
CPU Ryzen 3900X amzn.to/3kkZhHB
Storage Samsung 980 SSD 1TB amzn.to/2PodDME
Storage SP SSD 1TB amzn.to/3ecpQwm
Storage 860 EVO 1TB amzn.to/3knhdRS
Case Lian Li O11 Air amzn.to/3m9UqJP
Fans Arctic P12, P14 amzn.to/3dTw44b
Fan filter: Silverstone amzn.to/34Iq8rK
CPU Cooler Noctua NH-CH14S amzn.to/31uYv3D
Power Supply EVGA P2 850W bit.ly/3s9z1E5 or T2 1000W bit.ly/39pLlJd
====TAGS
truecut Tv judder,tv motion problems, soap opera effect,tv stutter, truecut,truecut tv motion,tv settings motion,judder in tv,stutter in tv,help with stutter,help with judder,what is judder,24p judder,24p stutter,
========= About Affiliate Links: #CommissionsEarned All of my Amazon & Best Buy links in this video description are affiliate links which means at no extra charge to you, I will make a small commission if you click on them and make a qualifying purchase. Equipment and Materials used for this review can be purchased on Amazon via the links above. All sponsorships are fully disclosed in this video description as well as video content. We make every effort to back up our conclusions and reviews with with demonstrations that clearly show the reasoning behind our opinions.
===TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Intro
0:57 Fixing TV Judder?
3:33 Dim HDR Lowers Judder
4:30 New TVs and Bad Judder
9:23 A Fix for All TVs
15:05 HDR Analogy
19:39 Firmware Update? When - Наука та технологія
I'll believe when I see it
This is the content I sub for, no other TV reviewer/youtuber has that industry reach and contact, love it!
Sounds amazing. Can't wait to finally see it in action!
I'm pretty excited about this - here's a trailer to whet your expectations ua-cam.com/video/oBlz6AeFX9s/v-deo.html
It’s mid 2023 & we still aren’t seeing an app or firmware update for any of this
Its 2024 did any update happen
QUESTIONS: The fact is, having a "faster" form of "Response Time" creates worse "Stuttering." OLED TV sets have almost instantaneous "Response Times," which is why the OLED TV sets have by far the worse "Stuttering" problems with movies. My TV sets and monitors from a decade ago didn't have these types of "Stuttering," because the "Response Times" were not nearly as fast as TV sets are today. I have seen monitors have an "Overdrive" mode that changes the "Response Time" to make the "Response Time" faster in order to improve "Stuttering" in videogames that haver higher framerates such as 60 frames per second.
My first question is, "Why don't TV manufacturers and monitor manufacturers use the sort of 'Anti-Overdrive' mode where the response times can be made 'slower' in order to eliminate 'Stuttering' during movies with lower framerates of only 24 frames per second?"
My second question is, "Why not make it so the Menu of the TV or Monitor allows you to select the speed of the Response Time?" I saw there are some monitors that refer to multiple different speed levels for their "Overdrive" mode. And I noticed a Dell monitor makes a reference to response times of ranging from 5ms to 12ms in the specs. I don't know if you can actually select the rate of the Response Time in a menu, though. I don't want to buy that monitor to find out, because it is a VA monitor and I don't like VA monitors. I like IPS monitors.
My third question is, "If it is possible to create an 'Overdrive' mode in order to increase the Response Time of the monitor, or TV why not intentionally make it so the monitor or TV has a natively slow Response Time?" The Overdrive mode could then have the traditional settings of Low, Medium, and High, but also, something like Higher, and Highest in order to make up for the natively slow Response Time of the monitor. This would solve the problem of the Monitor or TV having "Stuttering" during movies with lower framerates and also solve the problem of having "Stuttering" during videogames with higher framerates.
On my TV I play PS5 at 60 normally, but if I put a game at 30fps, it looks like 15. Is there a solution for this? It's Android TV, is there a script or something similar to modify the system?
@@SnakeGamerPS5 The reason it "looks" like 15fps at times is because it dips below 30fps at times. For example, Final Fantasy 16 on the PS5 was very disappointing the way it tries to run at 30fps but drops as low as 22fps many times. The fact is, both 30fps and 60fps are fine - as lone as they are "steady." When they drop to a number lower than 30 or 60, it causes a problem.
Also, some people think 60fps is the best no matter what in all situation. That is simply not true. I will do some simple math so you see what I mean. Think about hardware capable of displaying 60,000 Polygons Per Second.
At 60 frames per second, the hardware capable of displaying 60,000 Polygons Per Second could display 1,000 polygons per frame. However, at 30 frames per second, the hardware capable of displaying 60,000 Polygons Per Second could display 2,000 polygons per frame. This means literally TWICE as much polygon detail per frame could be display in a game running at 30fps. So, there is NO DOUBT many developers on a console will decide to display 30fps rather than 60fps.
When a game is re-released later on during the next hardware generation, you will usually see two improvements. First, you will see a game increased from 30 fps to 60fps. This can easily be done, because the new hardware the next generation can display far more polygons. Second, you will see a game increased from a resolution of 1280x720p to 1920x1080p or even to 3840x2160p.
During the generation of the Xbox 360 and PS3, there was quite a difference in Polygon Power between the two. The Xbox 360 could display 500,000,000 Polygons Per Second, while the PS3 could display only 275,000,000 Polygons Per Second. This is why we often saw third-part games released on both consoles have reviewers say, "The Xbox 360 version runs smoothly at 60 frames per second, while the PS3 version struggles to run at 30 frames per second."
It was like this quite a bit with the EA Sports games. If you were a developer like EA, and you were released the game for both console, you said to yourself, "We are going to keep the game with an equal number of polygons per frame for both consoles. But the Xbox 360 has the ability to run the game at 60 frames per second while the PS3 version will run the game at 30 frames per second." It would not be possible to have the Xbox 360 version run at 30 frame per second while the PS3 version ran at 15 frames per second. This would cause fundamental problems. Also, if the PS3 version would have run at 60 frames per second, the only way it could happen would be if a LOT (i.e. 50%) of polygon detail was left out.
The games released exclusively for Xbox ran at 30 frames per second in many instances, though. For example, it is generally agreed that the most impressive looking game series on Xbox 360 was Gears of War. The Gears of War games ran at 30 frames per second. Being able to run at 30 frames per second is what gave Gears of War the ability to display the maximum amount of polygon detail per frame possible.
I hope this helps explain things.
This is so exciting! I've been waiting for a fix for stutter for years now. But why is it penetrating so slowly? The white paper says that rollout was planned for mid-2020. That's a long time ago and we are seeing some movement only now. Also, there is no mention of physical media... I'm afraid that once movies start streaming in TrueCut, our disc collections worth thousands will simply become absolete :(
What tv will have this no stutter/motion blur? Cause all OLEDs have terrible stutter and QLEDs and mini LEDs have motion blur
Just wow. This is insane and the future. Exactly whats needed. These guys are the real deal, no question about it. Cant come soon enough!
Thanks for this IMO totaly gamechanger. A real revolution. Thank you FOMO 👍🏻
Right, but what about black frame insertion? Regardless if you can naturally reduce judder without any compromises, you're still left with only 300p motion clarity(way too low) and 16ms motion persistence(too much motion blur). Black frame insertion is not even viable on OLED TV's because there's too much flicker....Other wise, on average they seem to offer 650p motion clarity and reduce motion blur by half which actually pretty decent.
Without it, OLED has crappy motion. OLED motion in general continues to get swept under the rug.
Hi, I have an LG C1 and I noticed when watching some TV shows, especially shows like house hunters, when they are showing inside a house, the walls will be moving back and forth like its in motion (not sure if you call this judder or stutter). Is there a way to fix this? I've tried some different setting but no luck so far. Thank you in advance if you have any suggestions.
It would be cool if cameramen could adjust more than just focus, like shutter speed and decay curves/shapes like ADSR for audio but for video frames and variable frame rates on the fly while filming and tv's could display this. One assistant could easily control all these effects simultaneously with something like a VR glove or two 6D mice while watching a real time feed on a monitor.
The truecut motion on tvs will works with any 24p movie on only with movies mastered using truecut?
Hi The Fomo how are you doing today? Could My Samsung Q90R TV possibly receive this True Cut in an Firmware Update?
I want it for my Sony A8F. cannot wait
I don’t understand; will this be imbedded metadata? Can current TVs benefit from this? Will the studio need to imbed this data then Netflix streams it much like Dolby vision? I just don’t understand.
Bumping this video up, if thats possible. I've their white paper a thorough read, and from what I understand, part of the benefit of Truecut is no loss of resolution or clarity.
Personally, in my on limited capacity to test motion, there are huge drawbacks to the use of what display maufactuerers call, "Film Mode or Cinema Mode. A feature for 24p sources, that adds frames if its being displayed on a 60hz or 120hz TV. If my visual perception and observations are right. Then those frames are reducing full screen brightness while HDR content is streamed or viewed through UHD Blurays.
On my Vizio P55 C-1, by turning off Film Mode the HDR content has a crisper look to it and detail in motion is far better maintained. If I adjust the Reduce Judder setting based on the Spears and Munsil UHD HDR benchmark disc to 5, that clarity bumps up and the overall detail releated to HDR.
The 3:2 and 5:5 pulldown particularly for HDR is a really flawed design. I hope all display manufacturers adopt TrueCut.
If TrueCut is the ultimate answer to all of these motion issues that we are experiencing, will this awaited software update only be available on new TVs coming out at the time of TrueCut release to the manufacturers, or will it be available for download on past year models? I just purchased a Hisense TV, and love the picture quality, except, of course, these blurring and artifact issues I'm experiencing. I'm contemplating the return of the TV, because watching it with all of these annoyances takes away from the viewing pleasure. In the meantime, I'l continue watching video content on my iPad. At least I don't have to be concerned about any of these issues with it.
I’ve learned to like soap opera effect because I hate bad motion . Even these super expensive oleds have mediocre motion without adding motion processing. I like how new TVs give you the option to customize ur settings and add and subtract things. Hopefully this process works I’d love better motion on TVs . Just another excuse to upgrade in a few years
@@Dad_Life13 cool! I honestly have never had any luck with Sony TVs . I probably should give them another try on my next tv.
@@curtk8130 Stutter is a real problem with the OLED's. LG has more options in representing motion (1/10 dejudder and 1/10 interpolation, 4 levels of bfi.
So you can really dial it in to look just how you want. It's interpolation is also really good.
@@paulcox2447 agreed I like the cinematic motion setting. It’s perfect for me
Motion interpolation/De-blur: '10' looks pretty amazing when gaming, since you're brute forcing a fake 120fps into a 60fps game, and with the Samsung QD-OLED S95C, there's only a 19ms input lag penalty. Not too shabby! 120 cuts motion blur down by half, increases motion clarity from 300 to 600p and gives you that life-like buttery smooth motion. ;)
Putting aside motion interpolation, OLED 'base' motion is trash. With it's high 16ms motion persistence(Too much motion blur), caked over a pathetic 300p motion clarity(which is below a standard def Tube TV) is a complete laughing stock and makes most video games unplayable, and watching movies just looks and feels artificial when stacked next to a plasma.
Sure, you CAN use OLED black frame insertion. As It bumps motion clarity up to 650p and cuts down half the motion blur which is pretty solid, but in return you get some distracting nasty flicker on whites, which ultimately makes the feature useless. AND it suffers from shadow detail crushing.
As is, OLED is a frustrating technology if you actually value motion. At this point, Plasma is miles more enjoyable to watch movies and TV on under the right lighting conditions. I can get 900p motion clarity, a much lower motion persistence and far less film judder with a Panasonic ST60 plasma and if i were lucky enough to find one in proper working condition I'd be spending less than $500 CAD for a 65" :P It would be like almost watching movies on a giant flat screen CRT TV.
Only Sony is smooth in motion no artefacts
Someone please help me out: how is this different from the decade old tech in all of my FHD TVs that has the TCON board, upon detection of 24Hz material, put the refresh rate to some multiple of 24? I have a ten year old Sony and Samsung that put the TV down to 48Hz then show each video frame twice. Works great and looks great.
your 10 years old tv is dimm and small and has low response time dumbass
@@bigben9056 Wow, who hurt you, bro? 🤣👌
My plasma doesn't have any issues with motion and looks amazing 😎
How hot does your living room get tho 😂
They really need to work on tightening up their elevator pitch, cool stuff 👍
So how do I fix this judder and stutter on my OLED S90C?
Curious: ... Would it make sense to have a " TV panel" brand that makes ONLY the display panel .. and a separate product/box that does ALL the software and hardware housing. This way, customers can buy or change the size of a TV without losing or needing to upgrade the hardware .... Alternatively... if a new feature is available, brands can offer hardware swap to a modular chassis .. rather than producing an entirely new TV with panels included? ...
I don't understand why this is not a standard way of offering viewing displays .. ( similar to how computers run a graphics card ..and display monitors**)
At this point ... perhaps people could just use a computer for all the streaming and management.. but displays or TV panels that have no hardware are rare.. Even computer monitors don't come in 83 inch sizes. ... but a raw panel could?.. **
Maybe it is because the TV hardware processing speed is insufficient or the HDMI bandwidth is insufficient, so can the computer graphics card be used to solve this problem?
forget it in firmware updates, brands will try to cashin with new models
So my new TV isn’t a lemon? I had a 52” Samsung LCD and never noticed and motion issue. I recently decided to get a 65” Hisense U8G and I’m seeing judder all over, Disney +, movies on cable like TNT and AMC. Pretty disappointing.
So how does it work though? How are they getting 24fps footage to look right on 60hz screens???
LG CX is only tv i’ve used that 24p content doesn’t judder but just to dim for bright rooms LOL like mine
Every TV I have owned since the transition to full HD has handled it fine: when the input detected 24p material, the TCON board puts the refresh rate to some multiple of 24, such as 48Hz or 72Hz. Looks perfect to me and has for a decade. I’m thoroughly confused about this stuff to be honest. I don’t understand what is new here. Any idea?
@@ryanbaker7404 24fps looks like crap in 60hz and 120hz screens (mostly in panning shots) Even with the pull down techniques you mentioned. you get a ton of judder, specially with brighter screens and HDR
@@RingRoadSessions 120hz is a clean multiple of 24fps, so doesn't need any pulldown.
@@displaytalk OLED suffers from stutter because of instantaneous response. Stutter is a different phenomenon from judder.
Great debate!! Finally a UA-cam video going straight to one of the main and most important points on a TV nowadays: Motion, Judder, Stutter, Smoothing... And touching on a very sensible point that brands don't want to talk about!!! Aside of RTings, is the only few videos, who i am seeing someone debating these essencial aspects on nowadays TV's. A LOT ( to do not say all) of TV "reviewer's", talk about everything on a TV, but i don't see them even mention anything about the Motion, Judder or Stutter!!!
From many years to today, im struggling to find a simple 43" TV with a decent Picture Quality VS a GOOD Motion!!! Every Brand actually focus on giving an 4K, 8K resolutions, Great Brightness, and simply "forgot", how horrible the Motion looks on the picture. I used to work on a TV Shop, about 15years ago, i tested and sell hundred of Plasma/LCD TV's at the beggining of this technology, and i am connected to the TV/Sound systems trough all this years, and i am noticing that the TV's are being worst and worst year after year what it matters to Motion/Judder/Stutter. A average/good 12/15y old LCD TV 720p/1080p, works a LOT better on any Motion/Judder/Stutter aspect, than any new recent TV LED/OLED/QLED (unless the TV is a TOP line model, with a huge price). Many people, like I am, doesn't use TV's to see Blu-Ray 4K/8K movies. I use my TV 99% to watch usual TV content channels through an common (1080p) STB Box - and how many channel's do we have streaming truly at 4K ? Many FEW - like 7/8 with luck, and those were precisely channels who doesn't have an awesome content, usually are Fashion, Food, Nature Picture "demo" Channels (and that's why I don't have/need a 4K STB Box)!!!! And How many 8K TV channels ??? - as far as i know, in my country - NONE!
What's it matters having an 8K TV, when the pictures images have a huge Juddering, Stuttering, and a lack of smoothness??? Many content channels on the TV, looks like are being played at 15fps's, with a lot of jumping frames, artifacts and an horrible Judder !!!
I compare my 2y old Led 4K TV, to an old 15y old Samsung 720p LCD, with the exact same content playing on both (TV channels at 1080p), and the Old 15y old TV performs 200% better in picture performance without Juddering or Stuttering, while my recent TV just performs awful on that aspect, and even with a lot of weird artifacts 😵💫 . And the problem is that the market, and the brands, year after year, doesn't make anything to improve that aspect. Looks like, that they are cutting more, and more the handling motion controls, to the point of user cant make anything, and have to watch his TV struggling with Motion, Judder, Stutter and artifacts problems, no matter what, even you paying well for your own new TV, you have no control about that.
I even Tried a 43" - a real 100HZ Sony TV, that cost me 3X the price of a common TV with the same 43". And the performance on the TV i can tell that's were quite Good due to his 100hz frequency, and his motion controls! But the problem is that i am light sensitivity, and the TV panel make my eyes hurt, and gave me a LOT of headaches, even configured with the lowest brightness possible ( due to the type of brightness screen LED's input maybe ) - so, after 4days, i have to return the TV, since i simple cant watch a program or a movie for more than 20/30mins without giving me horrible headaches and make me dizzy, to the point of having nausea's 🤢So... that's a not good experience at all!!! Isn't supposed we have a good time experiencie with our TV's?!?!?...
In other hand, just to test, I've connected my STB Box through HDMI to my PC monitor ( an AOC 1080p 144hz - not made for "TV" functions), and surprisingly the picture performance were Amazing, without flaws, Judder or Stutter!!! And that, makes me think.... "Why does a PC monitor ( that was not made for that) Works flawless playing TV channel content, and the actual TV's wont ???" 🤔🤐
With the newer OLED/QLED TV's, with even more and higher brightness/Nit's... in a near future if i would like to watch TV, i have to use Full Dark Glasses 😎😎😎 to hold on that huge amount of Brightness/Nit's, that look's like, more lasers pointed to our eyes.
Its sad, how the technology world is "evolving", but the TV's technology is backsliding... Yeah, we now have HUGE Resolution TV Panels , but misses all the rest to be good! Misses totally the natural picture motion.
Can you guys do a vid showing the diff between judder & stutter?
Any help? When Istream LOST on UA-cam (Purchased Seasons) half the time the movement judders. Like it's on slightly slow motion. Slight blur. How to fix. Or do I just return the tv?
Sony 55 Inch 4K Ultra HD TV X77L Series: LED Smart Google TV KD55X77L- 2023
It may also be the UA-cam "stream", so try it on a cheap $24 Fire or Roku Stick to see if it's any different - it could be your TVs internal app or it could be the UA-cam stream itself.
Thank you. I'll try that. @@stopthefomo
If they up sample everything to 60 or 120 fps, be ready for compression artifcats to become worse, or data rates to increase significantly.
@XSAVIER busy 60fps movie is already encoded at that frames, what he meant was realtime upsampling where TV has to sample 24fps to 60fps in realtime and that is causing motion arifacts, even with AI learning it does.
Fomo, I think a lot of us film enthusiasts would love some history on why manufacturers never made a film-focused 24Hz panel? Is it simply a brightness issue?
Apple's reference monitor operates at 24hz.
yes. it is a monitor for movie editing/producing. not for watching them.
Help I hate the judder I have tried 8 new 📺 can't. Fix cable which one should I buy I would like a high end 55in but might settle for uhd with quantum dot the only one I haven't tried is the sony a95l but I have a a80l now and it is probably the best at motion but no quantum dot and the picture just doesn't look very good
Sony A95L has the best and most flexible motion settings to eliminate stutter/judder without introducing soap opera - literally the BEST available motion setting money can buy in 2023.
@@stopthefomo thank you I am running the samsung s95c and it is doing very well but I still might upgrade I Have 6 weeks oh yeah thanks for your judder settings recommend
So whats the settings
There are a lot of image motion problems at the movie theater.
Interestingly there is no Demo to download on the pixelwork website..
It requires hardware (or a firmware upgrade) that supports the metadata that's why.
I'm a little confused. These guys say that their TrueCut technology requires most (80%) of the processing to be done at the source and then the TV can do the rest, likely via a firmware update. However, for those of us with extensive movie libraries (either on a server, or DVD/Blu-ray media) the source is what it is and so therefore TrueCut can't possibly help.This is ONLY for new TrueCut compatible media, right?
From what I undestand, yes, exactly. It has to be TrueCut mastered.
So not only do the tv manufactures all need to get on the same page, but the content makers also need to on a per content basis, so years away at best and forever to get back catalog compatibility, specific to streaming, or where we need to buy yet more discs again in whatever the new format becomes. I'm not holding my breath.
this would be fantastic. I just took back a samsung because of stutter. now I am worried any tv I buy will have it.
Any updates on this cuz nothing has come out since this
so true , I have a samsung qn90b and the stutter on movies in terrible on panning shots. ruins the movie and makes everything look like a b class production. I can't believe how bad motion is even on the top tv.
I had no issues at all with stutter, judder, or motion with my Sony x900e for 6 years...then it decided to die on me back in February. Now I have gone through 4 TVs in 3 months...the Hisense U8H, Samsung QN9DA (Same as QN90A), S95B, and now the QN90B and I can't find a TV that doesn't stutter or judder or have good motion with regular hd comcast content at 1080p...it's irritating...I'm pretty much done with Samsung tvs for normal cable tv viewing and probably exchanging for a sony x90k now...
I can be wrong, but to me it sounds too "secretive" to succeed. Dolby Vision failed at the begining and didn't got any serious attention until (once patented) they published all the technical details of their processing. Only then the industry started following it. But these guys sound like "I don't tell you, give me the money and I'll setup everything for you". That formula will never work for mass adoption.
Worked for Coca Cola and their secret ingredient lol
@@alexanderulv3886 Coca Cola didn't want to create a new standard, quite the opposite. Dolby wanted to create standard and succeeded. And now these guys want it. No manufacturer will accept a standard based on secret proprietary algorithms. You can patent the technology and the logo, and you can also license your SDK to do it or ask for royalties. But the algorithm needs to be public, otherwise it is not "a standard" by definition, because nobody will know what it does.
Next CES;
LG: It is possible to firmware update the C9-C1 with Truecut.
However, only the G2 is Trucut ready. Find a retailer here:🖕🏻
Of course
Hi FOMO, any updates on TrueCut?
Sadly, NONE
@@stopthefomo 😥
I've now been reading the comments, before,.. I wanted to watch the video. But, bedause of the comments, I get the idea that the video didn't give answers or proof of anything. And gave even more questions.. And disbeleave.. And that watchin it is a waist of time.. So I decide now to not watch it.. Bye ! And, FOMO, still thanks for bringing this up. The discussion is very good. Because motion is a problem.. And my quest is.. I only see 1080i/50.. via my cable tv.. What would be the best change the content makers would change for motion.. WOuld a change to 1080p vs 1080i make a difference withthe same 50 fps.. Or would 1080i/100 make a difference.. Or 1080p/100. On my oled..
Plasma didn't have this issue -- and it didn't have any motion smoothing SOE nonsense. I'm holding onto my plasma until another technology comes along to match it (hopefully it holds out until then). No way I'm paying 1500 plus dollars for an OLED TV that doesn't look as good as my mid-level Samsung plasma from 10 years ago.
I have a 2013 LG Plasma and the image retention is huge, that is the response time is very fast and it creates stutter specially in games with low framerates! If I take my PC and play a game at 60fps the motion stutter is gone!! So you are very wrong, Plasmas did have those issues. Problem is that you might be confusing the terminologies here. No one is saying Plasma's weren't good in terms of motion (on "individual objects"), just watch a soccer match on a Plasma, you will be able to see the ball perfectly!! So motion in individual objects within a scene are perfect on a Plasma, yes. The problem arise when moving the entire camera on games or the moving of the camera on a movie!! You get to SEE stutter, because the 60hz display is receiving lower input frames (24fps movies, 30fps consoles/Switch/PS3/4) and these TV's have no technology to counter this, and simply reproduce the same frame again, causing the judder and the lost of smoothness.
Do you watch in 4kbluray movie??
Ah I really want this! I've had some problems with motion.
I'm just thinking that I'm gonna stop collecting Blu-rays for a while. I'm just tired of all these competing formats. Right now I'm using an Xbox one S as player and it doesn't support dynamic hdr. My Samsung TV doesn't want to support Dolby Vision. And the new consoles... I was really sad that PlayStation and Xbox decided to not support Dolby Vision or HDR10+ for discs. I don't really want to buy a Blu-ray player as their pricing is incredibly stupid. Somehow even with their ridiculous prices they often miss common formats. Sony for example. You have to turn on Dolby Vision in a setting. Are they serious? Several units lead to more remotes and to few HDMI Arc ports on the TV.
So the devices are a problem. What about the discs?
* The motion thing will hopefully be improved.
* Several movies doesn't have dynamic metadata for hdr. Yes, that's a problem. Often wired hdr choices.
* Lord of the Rings and other movies had too much grain removed. Maybe a fan edit can restore those. Or let us chose somehow. I love grain.
* Audio mix is sometimes poor. Still dialogue issues in new movies. This happens in rooms with very good audio and sound treatment. It's the mix. 3D audio seems confused. Do we really need speakers in the ceiling? It's used very rarely.
Aspect ratios are a huge issue. The picture is usually cropped to work best with a 16:9 TV. Nolan movies for example. I think most TV rooms work best with a 21:9 screen unless you have a very tall room. I assume we will get TVs in that aspect ratio in a few years. Especially with micro led. A need for a wider screen than 21:9 would be very rare. So room height decides how big the 21:9 screen can be. Then it's as good as possible all the way from cinemascope 2.35:1 to original 1.33:1.
For TVs in living rooms and so on 16:9 will probably always be best. That's why I want the Blu-ray to come with it's original aspect ratio and different settings for the crop. If I want to crop a setting easily let's me do it. I know I can zoom, but you can get issues with subtitles and center zoom might not always be best.
Missing IMAX scenes are annoying. Avengers 3 and 4 for example.
So I'll sell the small collection I started. Luckily I only have around 30 Blu-rays. Bought them very cheap so I can probably sell them for the same price. Actually I will probably keep the ones that never find a home in a streaming service. Have had issues finding Sony movies, Harry Potter and Nolan.
Buying movies just sucks sometimes. Where I live we don't get any digital access with a Blu-ray purchase. We just don't have movies anywhere. That's annoying - essentially makes me only buy from iTunes even when others might be cheaper.
Well, that was a waste of time. You talked for nearly half an hour but conveyed almost no information. It wasn't even made clear what specific aspect of motion handling you're complaining about. Are we talking about telecine judder on 60Hz displays or just 24 frames per second footage in general even on sets capable of 5:5 pulldown? What is the proposed method to "fix" this without deviating from the creator's intent?
I can only speculate due to the lack of explanation, but I'm assuming the plan is, instead of letting the TV apply its own motion processing, you will apply motion processing at the source and stream that. While you'll have the advantage of being able to apply more advanced processing techniques because you don't have to do it in real-time, presumably we'll just have to settle for what you deem to be the correct way to handle 24 frames per second conversion. Some degree of stutter is inherent to 24 frames per second video, so eliminating it implies some kind of motion interpolation will be applied. The problem with motion interpolation has always been the soap opera effect and not once in this video was it explained how TrueCut plans to avoid this.
agrey just commercial speach
What about just cable tv on 50/60 hz fps
That’s just frame repeating
Does this work for gaming too? Sample and hold displays drive me crazy with all the motion blur.
So will my current 4K UHD's not work with TrueCut?
I'm sure it could be an update but the big question is that are they not going to issue the update and try to make us buy more TV's to get that option
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like I would have to buy a new tv for this to work.
Yea that’s what I got from him dancing around the question
I don't think so .
No you don't, you need just to update your HDR10+ /Dolby Vison compatible TV with a newer version of the manufacturer's firmware that adds TrueCut functionality. The movies/Tv Shows that will support this will be re-mastered by the movie companies to include TrueCut functionality.
Hi, I’ve just bought a Sony A95K 65” and I’m seeing a lot of motion blur and judder! I’ve turned smoothness to max and film mode to max and can still see it even when watching 4K movies PLEASE HELP =[
OLED TV sets have virtually instantaneous "Response Time." This actually HURTS the "Movies," because the "Movies" run at 24 frames per second. You are actually better off with a SLOWER "Response Time" if you watch "Movies" at 24 frames per second, because the "Stuttering" will not be visible and the transition from frame to frame will visually appear to be "smoother," because there will be more time between the pixels in each frame.
@@michaelzoran Hey thanks for the response! So is there any way of altering the response time on a TV? Just so I don’t notice it, Thanks 👍🏽
@@EmilianoCarlito Some Monitors have something called an "Overdrive Mode" that speeds up the Response Time in order to help reduce "Stuttering" of videogames that at higher framerates such as 60 frames per second. However, you will see that as you turn up the Overdrive Mode from Low to Medium and from Medium to High, it actually HURTS the performance of Movies by making the "Stuttering" of movies at their lower framerates of 24 frames per second FAR WORSE. You are actually better off leaving "Overdrive Mode" set to "Off" for the movies. But usually, even then there is still "Stuttering," because the "native" Response Times of the monitors is so fast.
What the manufacturers actually need to do is make it so the monitors have a much slower "Native" Response Time. This would allow the "Stuttering" problem to be solved with the movies. There could then be an "Overdrive Mode" that speeds up the Response Time significantly. But so far there are no monitors or TV sets out there with that setting or ability.
You teasing SOB :)
Why not just add Variable Framerate into tvs so they run at 24hz and make that a standard feature?
I don't understand the problem. I currently watch my 4K content through VLC or KODI or PLEX. As I understand it, those three apps (or at least KODI and PLEX) have the ability to switch the TV's refresh mode depending on the content being decoded. In essence, the app has told the tv what the frame rate of the content is. I don't understand how this is any different....unless it is like GSYNC or FreeSync where the player drives the display, which case it would beg the question, why do we need a third technology.
Interestingly enough, I went to see F9 at the movie theater yesterday. It was a sloppy mess. It stuttered so much that I believe my Af8 with all motion controls off had far less stutter. it looked better than the movie theater.
That must be a really bad theater. A good theater should have ZERO stutter in the films. It's the minimum you would expect in a film theater!
@@matheus5230 Actually, it was the higher quality theater if you can believe that. tickets were actually more expensive for the theater than others lol
@@dippin1523 You got ripped off. This is straight-up false advertizing. I have never experienced stutter in theaters, but I have dealt with everything else, like screen being too dark and murky, overly blurry in any fast movement, and bad sound making dialogue unintelligible. Hell, I've experienced the film freezing like a scratched DVD far more often than I would like.
And all of those bad experiences were in the same theater. If it wasn't so close and easy to reach, I wouldn't have watched on it so often. But I'm now determined to never watch films in that theater again.
@@matheus5230 24 frames per seconds makes it PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to not have stutter at some slow panning motions (unless you do some horrible blending and smoothing out to hide it). It's a matter of discreet arithmetic, not projection technology.
Firmware update and not new tv, there is hope for my G2. Letssss goooo.
The Motion Handling from the Sony A95K is not as good as I expected. 😢 This should be much better! 😠 Greetz from Switzerland
A90J sony SUck too , My Sony A1 (2017) is better
As newer was the TV, as worst is the motion handling. I've been struggling with that for around 3years, trying get a TV who suits me, and my main problem its always the same: Judder, Stutter, Artifacts, lack of natural motion. I've tested dozen of TV's, and mainly they are (at least) horrible on theses points.
The Brands are not focused on gave the users a flowing image. They only want to launch TV's with more Higher Resolution's, and High Contrast/Brightness Ratios. 🤷♂
How does this effect lag for gaming
It wouldn't. This is essentially meta-data in the video stream that is recognized by your TV. Gaming just wouldn't include it at all.
Oleds are too fast for 24 fps. You need some smoothing to make it look normal.
You answered exactly why the TV Industry won't, regardless of his touting TV makers, because if a $500 TV can do it as well as a $5000, what does it say about their price points.
I got lgc1 with xsx. I am a fan of this TV and I would buy it again so let me just clear the air on that. 
I’m seeing Jutter when watching movies. Or lack of smoothness at certain parts of the movie.
Most people will not pick this up or maybe you will but I definitely do my wife does not.she thinks im crazy.
I have tried changing the resolution from the Xbox I have tried changing 60 Hz versus 120 hz. I tried turning off variable refresh rate from the Xbox and still same. I have tried changing the resolutions from 1080 P to 4K to 1440.
I have tried turning off all Dolby digital and HDR and many other settings.
This TV is awesome I would buy it again for gaming I have no complaints. But I am noticing lack of smoothness when watching movies.
I have been told that this is the case for all OLED TVs and that is normal. But honestly it kind of hurts my eyes.
I’ve tried manually putting in a disk same thing. I have tried all the different settings from game mode to standard to filmmaker mode.
This is something that is hard to explain and not everybody will see what I’m seeing. I think it happens more with certain moving scenarios or fast-moving scenarios. But even when it’s not fast I see it.
This is something that I noticed doesn’t happen to CRTs or LCDs that I’ve had in the past.
Out of a 1 to 10 of this being a dealbreaker I would say it’s a one or two. Not a huge deal but I definitely notice it. 
I know I’m not being delusional. I will make a video and see if you can see what I’m seeing.
People in this group have already told me this is the case for all OLED TVs. 
I am starting to think this is just how the oleds are with movie watching
No my friend... you're not beeing delusional at all 😂 Not everyone has the same sensibility to watch the same picture, as not everyone as the same sens to heard some sounds.
Flickering, Ghosting, Judder, Stutter, etc is something, that not everyone notice, unless people with high visual sensibility. I have the same problem as you... If I am complaining about the the picture performance, usually who was at my side, doesn't notice at all what im am talking about, unless is a skilled and sensible person too.
Honestly and personally i cant stand with OLED/QLED Panels. Besides of hurting my eyes, make me headaches, and even worst: make me nausea's. I cant watch for more than 20/30mins.
@@jorgepereira9455 you're probably sensitive to the flickering I don't see the flickering but I did figure out what I was noticing and it's the motion on oleds. Hence why they have motion settings.
But yeah I have heard a lot of people being sensitive to oled's flickering I personally don't notice any flickering on oleds
it still wasn't explained....and I am therefore very skeptical of this. What are they doing "at the source"?
Basically, the movie is recorded in a high frame rate or converted to 48FPS or 60FPS container with a high shutter speed to maximize the amount of information that's in the source. From there, the software will then apply the necessary visual effects (motion blur, cinema blur, etc.) to create the perception of 24p. So even though the source may be HFR, the TrueCut software applies the conversion/filters to eliminate soap opera, jutter, etc. I was at their studio watching demos and editing in action - it was quite impressive. James Cameron was so impressed that TrueCut to remaster Avatar for HDR-3D (preserving 24p while raising brightness, clarity without adding judder)
Don't know if Fomo has been to the theatre lately but... theatre motion is not "smooth" nor have the temporal clarity of what would be a CRT back in the day. It still exhibits the inherent natural 24p motion behavior that less and less people seem to want to see but what was perfectly fine back in the day. The true challenge for modern displays is how they can retain that simple motion 1:1 AND have the ability to "finesse or smooth" it out more with their image interpolation techniques without introducing ANY artifacts. In my limited opinion, a good way of trying to accomplish this would be in a similar way that DLSS works for resolution (upscaling), in that AI deep learning would be involved in analyzing content.
Do you think the reason CRT's looked smooth was partly due to their small size? The bigger the display, the more noticeable the judder becomes. Moving objects move physically further between frames on bigger displays.
@@RichardNutman Do you mean on Oled or LCD/Led displays? Pixel response delay inherently helps an LCD have perceptible smoother sustained motion than Oleds.
@@RichardNutmanthe motion differences is due to the refreshing rate of crt's
Crt and plasma flicker at high frequency which looks much more smooth to our vision than "sample and hold"
OLED responds fast and is sample and hold. So you need dejudder to make it look similar.
Are they using motion interpolation with variable refresh rate.
That's what it sounds like it.
My personal solution is to make everything 60fps/120fps .
Imagine watching the world cup matches in 4K 120fps.
Or movies or anime in 60fps..
That will be the day!!!!!!!
I wonder why they didn't made your single solution .
@@fullhd5277 aahh
Sarcasm 😅
Then everything looks like soap opera effect. Variable refresh rate may work for high action scenes and allow static scenes to look more film like but it's a compromise. If you have a slow pan and the frame rate does not speed up to match the movement you will again see stuttering. The camera would need to be able to detect how fast the motion is to match the frame rate. It would be too much work for a cinematographer to do it themselves.
My Samsung Plasma PN51 still blows the doors off newer TV’s 8 years later.
@jzo in terms of motion it does very well. Obviously not overall picture quality, but in terms of how it handles motion, it does very well. I watch a lot of supercross, trust me.
Plasma TVs still rock..
I had a plasma once and loved the deep rich colors but i noticed slight burn in.
I have a Panny plasma in the basement and an LG C7 Oled in the living room. I definitely agree with the superior motion handling of the plasma.
I have a 51 Samsung 5800 plasma. The last great Sammy plasma. The motions and colors are great. But it's only 1080p. Never had a problem with burn in after almost a decade of use. But I want a bigger 4k tv. I'm still not ready to replace it with all the problems oled has.
I'm really disappointed that it requires mastering at the source. I actually don't care that much about movies. What I need is a soap opera effect-free fix for my juddering UA-cam videos and anime.
Do you remember your grandpa's old tube screen TV? That is the answer currently my friend...
Me: Everyone must start shooting movies at 60fps by law.
Studios: Or, we can just insert Poo emoji frames inbetween every 2nd frame. Problem solved.
Filmmakers have tried that, audiences have hated the result. Filmmakers have stopped doing that. Do you want every new movie to suck and flop?
@@kadajawi6567 let's see what's easier? Adding frames or removing frames?
They don't do it because it costs twice as much. And if done right it shouldnt look bad. Imagine people back when silent movies were shot as If everyone is sped up seeing a proper 24 fps movie.
@@id104335409 Have you read any review of The Hobbit? Any review of Gemini Man? It was basically "Please watch it in 24p, the HFR version is terrible and ruins the movie". And those movies were shot that way and especially The Hobbit had a massive budget. That should not be the issue.
It looks terrible, because it looks too realistic, thus driving up the necessary effort to make it look believable to insane levels. The Hobbit at HFR looked like a theater play, not like an epic movie.
@@kadajawi6567 we need a real life movie for comparison, not one that relies heavily on cgi.
@@id104335409 And why? Also, you mean like pretty much any movie out there? What about Gemini Man then? HFR looks like a video game, a soap opera or the news. Not like a movie. 24p is just part of what makes a movie a movie.
HELL YAH!!
Still waiting for this
Seams like the best thing is for the tv to just literally match the incoming frame rate, shouldn't be that hard.
its motion stutter not telecine judder that they're talking about
Hello🥰🥰
My plasma starting buzzing last year so i went down to best buy to look at the new oleds. The motion stutter was PAINFUL to look at. I feel like im paying 2k+ for a kick in the ass new tvs suck
This just sounds like another proprietary format where the TV makers will screw up in the way it’s supported. How does this company make money but to charge the TV makers to support their format. Wish them well, but until we can see it and be widely supported it’s vaporware.
I don't really understand this. I thought all decent TV's could support 24fps playback properly these days. Judder is inherent with 24fps because the frame rate is soo low, not because TV's aren't showing it properly. You get the same at the cinema. 24fps was picked because it was the minimum acceptable frame-rate without using too much expensive film. It is antiquated, and needs to be dropped.
TV's frame-rates were originally tied to the mains electricity frequency, but that is no longer the case, so I don't understand why TV's have to use doubling effects for 24fps either, other than cheap electronics and they can't be bothered to change the way they update their displays.
24 fps support is easy-judder is removed. It’s the fast response time of these TV’s that make them seem very choppy, or introduce stutter (different from judder). With a slow response time like older TV’s had, frames would naturally blend into each other without interpolating artifacts so no stutter (though they likely had judder). If they could slow down the response time in a ‘film maker mode’ it would solve the problem but apparently that hasn’t been possible. High frame rates would also solve the problem of stutter.
@@Keivz So you're saying the choppyness is the pixels switching to their new colour value of the next frame too quickly, without any "blur" inbetween?
@@RichardNutman exactly
Frankly, l think it's more likely they industry as in Film and Movie houses, won't or don't want this as it will threaten their pocketbook, or assume so.
They will hold back a firmware for newer 2022 tv's to make more money. Just wait and see.
I know you have to stay on subject but do you have a guy that worked for that chipset company that’s not delivering the VRR and you didn’t mention it. Fomo!
Improbably in the minority but I'm color blind I want the smoothest and strongest soap opera affect as possible what would be your suggestion for a 75"+ tv that delivers that?
Just get a Sony x950h. The 75 inch is on sale for $2000 right now. Turn motionflow on and turn smoothness all the way up.
@@dyeacegood morning, So I am partially color blind in the colors of Red and Browns and if the brown is mixed with any green I can not see them well but in sci-fi movies with SOE it allows for my eyes to detect the subtle tonal difference especially if there is an effect that was placed by CG
for me, I would look at every movie and content in SOE
to watch a classic like Rear window with Image enhancement and SOE it made the movie take a surreal effect where I could see the textures and colors so much better almost making feel like a play on stage
@@thatsamazin- thank you so much what year is that model?
Too bad I can't watch the premiere. I'll be working
So a plasma tv
What's crazy is that they had 30 fps movies back in the 60's (Oaklahoma and Around The World In 80 Days) but they dropped it due to costs or something. Imagine if every movie since had been shot at 30 fps. Problem solved.
Audiences tend to hate the result. TV news, soaps etc. have been 50 or 60 fps for decades now. Cost is not an issue. Audience acceptance is.
visual look is the issue, 30 looks like terrible video fps
i'm almost throwing away my lg cx because of this. Movies at 24fps are unwatchable to me because of the stutter
Use some interpolation ??
@@eurovisie2010 trumotion doesnt do anything imo.
@jzo but creates judder
Film at 30fps and problem solved.
Ah well, filmmakers will not do that - it's non negotiable. The good news is that if they did film in 30p (or 120p) TrueCut can make it "look 24p" so problem solved. For Gemini Man Ang Lee should have used variable frame look so that close ups looked 24p and action/panning scenes looked 120p
@@stopthefomo
I cannot stress enough how much I hate the film industry for thinking 24 fps is still a good idea in 2021. There is no such thing as video being „too smooth“. It‘s just against what most people are used to from a movie so they‘re afraid of change.
Can TrueCut also make everything look as if it were filmed in 120 fps so like a mature version of motion interpolation without artifacts?
Yuck! That's old fogie talk
I always prefer motion Interpolation for tvs.. The feeling of 60fps is very good.. I don't like 24 fps
You know what they never had to fix? Samsung Plasma TVs! They were perfect.
Just makes me wanna buy a plasma
What happened to True Cut? Nothing.. right? lol
@@BeginsWithTheEnd Interesting.. Maybe worth an update from Fomo? 😀
Plasma had such a better picture.
Peter is my favorite
This is a weird ad for a tech that can't be explained and so far has no vendor or content support. It sounds like they are basically mastering things in 60-120hz with their own motion applied to that to make it look filmic rather than "soap-opera high frame rate" and then basically just playing it back on the TV. So instead of having the TV trying to do motion interpolation in real time, they do it up front with a higher quality processing and tweak it scene by scene.
Is it a bad idea? No, but I can't see a reason why you'd need to validate TVs and do firmware updates other than to prevent users from further tweaking the picture and gaining more licensing revenue.
This also doesn't solve the issue for all of the existing content out there, this is only for new content.
No you can of course re-author already released material and produce meta data that make it look a whole lot better.
WHO IS THAT ON HDTVTest, he looks like you. Where do you live now?
I thought this was Vince Teoh as well lol.
Change to 30-60 fps backwards stubborn people!!
This cinema 24 frames a second look is disgrateful, even at the cinema, This mode only came
About to save on film stock.... Projected images tend to look pretty crap, with very poor contrast and non-existent.blacks, and very poor sharpness, I can honestly say going to the cinema is very disappointing, and then if that's not enough they play the sound ridiculously high...
No! So the solution in a nutshell is this, after an update on our tv, we change the channel to a movie, and the tv will see what settings to implement, and change settings automatically? Is that right?? Because that sounds like shit to me even if every single commenter on here thinks its "amazing". Why even customize our options after that? Why even set brightness or anything? Am I interpreting this correctly because that sounds like a disaster to me?
I will tell you something: a good tv set is a tv that displays the image as the image is!!! you didn't need to adust any crt because it display the content as the content is!!! what you are sugesting is the reason of why tvs are so bad now!!! please dont let the tvs distorce what the image is! a good tv is a tv that shows what is been sended to the tv set as it is!!! off course if you want to change color, brightness that is ok, but the tv cannot change the content to display to what the tv thinks that image should be!!!
Who IS THIS Quantum TV?
There's no lenses in his glasses...
It’s not “next gen stuff”. Plasma TVs did this 15+ years ago.