My Relief Society Presidency Nightmare - Lori Young | Ep. 1892
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- In a gripping and vulnerable interview, Lori takes us on her journey of being raised in a picture-perfect Mormon household, only to find herself betrayed by the misogynistic teachings and practices of the Church. As a feminist trapped in a patriarchal system, she recounts the jarring experience of going through the temple for the first time, feeling like she had entered a cult. Despite her discomfort, she persevered for decades, until the cognitive dissonance and oppression of women triggered debilitating panic attacks and a mental health crisis. Lori's courageous story is a testament to the strength it takes to break free from indoctrination, find one's authentic self, and embrace true peace and equality outside the confines of orthodoxy. Her raw honesty about the harmful effects of Mormonism on women's mental health and her path to healing and purpose will resonate deeply with anyone who has struggled to reconcile their beliefs with their lived experience.
If you are feeling suic*dal, please seek help. Call 988 (US)
www.samhsa.gov/find-help/988
Episode Show Notes: www.mormonstories.org/portfol...
00:00:00 Intro
00:02:35 Lori’s intentions for telling her story
00:04:35 The beginning of her Mormon Story
00:10:55 Learning about polygamy in seminary
00:16:10 Going through the temple for the first time
00:19:18 The True Order of Prayer
00:25:15 She diverted from the normal woman path
00:28:00 The Family Proclamation
00:33:00 She was in the ward relief society presidency
00:38:40 Focus on modesty
00:45:50 New policy of not wearing capris and getting fired
00:53:25 Lori began questioning God and experiencing panic attacks
00:57:25 She began questioning further
01:00:00 The inequality of women
01:06:00 Experiencing panic attacks for three years straight
01:09:40 She was never told about anxiety or panic attacks until three years later
01:15:14 Microaggressions around women in the church
01:22:40 She ended up going to a mental hospital
01:26:15 She called the suicide hotline
01:32:04 Finding true peace away from the temple
01:35:00 The church has designed it for women to be trapped
01:42:00 Yoga - savasana
01:44:00 Statement from Sister Dennis
01:49:20 Key points of healing, growth, development in rebuilding
01:52:26 Seeking out new connections after leaving, real friends
02:02:10 Family Promise, housing for families
02:05:40 Challenges of rebuilding
02:08:50 Taking away the stigma of getting help
02:10:25 The joys of rebuilding
02:10:45 One of the great gifts of leaving the church
___________________
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My patriarchal blessing said I would have sons and daughters who chose me to be their Mother. When I was 35 I was unmarried and was diagnosed with Uterine cancer which resulted in a hysterectomy. I was devastated, felt it was my fault and that my children would have to go someone else who wouldn’t love them the way I could. It led to a severe depression, suicidal ideation and drug addiction. I’m ok now, have left the church and know it wasn’t my fault but it was a dark time in my life.
I’m so sorry this happened. I’m glad you found your way out. Sending love and healing! ❤
I converted to the LDS as early 30s... Single and no children...the other women kept emphasized that we were to only date and marry in the church, so could get sealed in the Temple. My devoted Catholic mother kept saying look for a good man... I should have listened to Mom!! So, Im now early 60s, still single, no children.. I had a total hysterectomy. Now, I struggle with LDS faith finding information different then what I was taught and I was like Damm... I've had plenty of nice friends, etc...but, I was frustrated as my patriarchal blessing also spoke about my husband and children!!
I am happy you survived your uterine cancer and the cult of Mormonism❤ Wishing peace and joy my dear woman.
As someone with crohn's disease, PCOS, and countless other medical issues, I will probably never have kids in this life, and it's hard when I see family members have kids.
So sorry to hear your story. I too was told I'd have kids in my blessing. After many surgeries, procedures, endometriosis, ruptured ovarian cysts etc, I've been rendered infertile. I've been excommunicated from the church many many years ago.....although it put me into a huge depression and suicidal, so glad they made that decision for me as I'm happier without the church and I don't believe it at all and never did. Was raised in the church but always questioned it.
I've never connected to one of the Mormon stories so much as this one. Thanks, Lori, for sharing. 19 years ago, I had 4 little kids; I was doing ALL the things I was supposed to do. I had a calling in the YW, I did my visiting teaching, I prayed with my kids, we read the scriptures, and I had never been so depressed. No matter what I did, it was never enough. My husband wasn't active and had no interest in the church. My priesthood leader said that I could go ahead and take temple prep classes. I did, but when I was done, they said I couldn't go unless my husband went with me. I was devastated. That was the beginning of the end for me. Finally, one day, I came home from church, left the kids with my husband, and went to my room. I cried like I had never cried before. I told God I wasn't going back, and almost immediately, I felt this peace come over me. I never went back. The next Sunday, I spend the morning snuggling with my kids and watching a Disney movie. It was the best day!
Just want to let you know you aren't missing anything by not going through the Temple. It's a total waste. I sure wish I had back all the hours I spent on Temple stuff.
Why on earth would they say that? They should have just said the underwear and the unmet expectations cause marital friction in mixed faith homes
@@eclipse-sh1qmZ3mOtcua💯
Bbbbb
I recently left the church and mental health has improved significantly. Thank you for this mormon story. It validated so many of my feelings.
Welcome to the other side! Sending love.💜
Same. My mental health is improving since I left the church.
I just joined, so my MH has greatly improved..
Praise the Lord!!! So thankful to hear that!!!
May you continue to heal! When I left decades ago there were not as many leaving. It is so refreshing that people are figuring it out and feeling themselves.
When I was about 17 I dated a Mormon guy. He took me to his church, and after the service we were segregated into young ladies and “priesthood“ meetings. I had to sit there and endure young women and teenagers singing about obedience to their husbands, discussing how they can’t have shorts above the knee at their annual summer camp, and overall that whole thing song sing fake high baby voice they all seemed to have. Coupled with that wide-eyed, vacant far away look? It was crazy. I broke up with that guy the same day.
😂😂😂😂😂. Good for you.
That must have been an eye opening experience.
Completely dodged a bullet there.
Hopefully it opened his eyes a little. Flirt to convert has a fatal flaw: THE CHURCH
That's dumb.
I just attended a BYUI alumni networking event. A lot of the older men approached my fiancè to ask him what he studied, etc. My fiancè didn't graduate college. He became an industrial electrician through trade schools. I wasn't asked once what I do for a living or anything. This has happened so many times to me in Mormonism. No one has ever asked what I do and I'm getting a master's degree in 3 months.
Congratulations on getting you masters!
What will your masters be in?
@@denisekeeran9883 Social work!
Congratulations!
Congratulations!
I went to middle/high school with Lori! Thank you so much for sharing your story. You are amazing! I left the church in high school and was put in the psych ward several times. I’m finally not ashamed to talk about it and wish my experience was more about nurturing my mental health and not as a form of punishment for leaving the church as a child. I am so thankful you are speaking openly about this because there is still a huge stigma around psychiatric care. Sending love to you and your family ❤
Thank you so much! I’m sorry for what you went through leaving the church. Sending love and joy! ❤
Yeah coz it’s expensive. Maybe the real problem was the sugary punch and junk food at Church events made you fat and ugly and the MIA boys teased you. Boys will be boys.
I have never commented on this podcast before. Thank you for having Lori Young on your show. As a anxiety/panic disorder sufferer; her story resonated with me so much. Some of things I had blocked out came to the for front and I now know why. Thanks John and Marge. Plus thanks Lori for sharing her story.
Thank you! Here’s to joy and healing! ❤
Excited to hear from the much rare female side of Mormon leadership- obey, pay & pray/prey.
It was such a wakeup call to me when I realized my whole life the church told me I needed to get to the temple and make promises to god. Then you get there and the final promise you make is you'll give everything to the church. Its a sickening cycle.
Dear Lori, I just want to say that I relate SO deeply to everything you said. I had a nearly identical experience except as a YSA (all the callings, stake calling, etc.). The only time I felt suicidal was during the last couple years before I left the church. Mormonism IS the illness. Leaving IS the cure. It saved my life. Love you so much and sending you all the joy in the world.
Thank you! Sending that joy and love right back! So glad we found our way out! ❤
❤❤
Massachusetts here. This episode gets an A+ from me. I left that mess many years ago when depression would increase at attending Sunday services. Nope, don't need THAT.
lol.... have u been to a baptist church?
SAME
This is so true most Mormon’s think u should go to college to get married and meet your husband.
👍
@@anniebesselievre5950, it’s jokingly referred to as “getting your MRS degree” 😆
I’m 52 and had no idea I had generalized anxiety and social anxiety until five years ago. I’m so grateful for the female therapist who helped me. I’d always thought those feelings were a challenge the Lord gave me to learn and grown from in this life. It was a huge relief to learn that tons of other people had the same feelings and to learn better strategies to handle difficult situations in my life.
Non Morman from Australia here. Great discussion and another amazing eye opener to just how much damage is done to women to keep them in line. Can you imagine Lori's story if she would have gone to see Jodi Hildebrandt rather than a non-Morman professional.
Would have been Jodi's go-to "diagnosis" I'm sure...."you'll be better after you leave your husband; he's addicted to porn".
I think Lori's too smart to fall for Jodi H! Thank you, Lori.
I was a 5 time Young Woman President and very devoted convert for decades. When I discovered that my leadership had knowingly lied to me about EVERYTHING I was completely devastated 💔 I can't have those decades back sadly but I am so grateful to have taken my adult children and grandchildren out of this horrific church whose foundation was based on lies
When I was growing up my mom was the main breadwinner as a doctor and my dad was a stay at home dad from when I was maybe 12 to after I left home. He also was the one who did most of the cooking and took us to extra curricular activities despite having a law degree. I genuinely think that disruption of gender roles was extremely powerful for me growing up and made me and my sister way more comfortable with rejecting patriarchy and the things that are just sort of accepted for you to do or be like as a woman. It also made it easier for me to stand up for myself when gender roles are forced onto me because I can think “my parents never even required this of me when I was their dependent, and I never even had them model this for me so why the f should I do this now?”
awesome..
My last calling 2 yrs ago was Stk RS Pres 2nd counselor. It was a major reason I opened up to researching the financial fraud in the news, and the slide down the rabbit hole was fast and furious!
Thank you so much for sharing Lori. I left Mormonism at 15 (26 now), but if I hadn't I can see what would have been my future in your life story - an independent, feminist woman trying to fit into a religion that mandates conformity to patriarchal structures. Your story has made me happier than ever that people like you are speaking out about their difficult experiences to show others the real, raw effects of the Mormon religion - your bravery is very, very clear to everyone who watched today. It's stories and people like you that got me out of that religion when I did, and I feel all the luckier for it.
I'm also going to steal your idea of internalizing my own meaning to life, and not worrying about making other people happy at my own expense - Mormonism left me with a lot of people pleaser tendencies that I'm still fighting to this day 😅. I'm working on it though! Thanks again for sharing!!!
I called my Releif Society President at one of the lowest points of my life. I was seeking counsel for all l was going through. I told her l was feeling suicidal She said,l cant help you. I dont know anything about suicide. But did she know anything about compassion or understanding?😊
Thank you so much! I'm so delighted to hear about women who see through the patriarchy bullshit and get out young. 💪 Sending joy and love!
The Sedona Method teaches to feel wanting approval until it goes away. If you resist wanting approval it persists. This helped me so much. I thought it was wrong to want anyone but God's approval, but when I acknowledged I wanted people's approval I actually found myself less obsessed with trying to deny that I wanted people's approval. Very freeing.
West Jordan Mom of x4 who can relate to the panic attacks & hospital stay, and left LDS forever.😅
Sending love and healing! ❤
Longtime Nevermo subscriber. Lori is just so relatable. What a lovely person.❤
How kind of you to say. Thank you! ❤
@lorijanes-young6253 You're welcome!! As I listened to your story, I thought, "Wow, she's really figuring it all out at such an early age." Unfortunately, your intellectual curiosity and intolerance for injustice just didn't work inside that bubble. I'm grateful for you and your journey.
This is one of my favorite episodes. So glad Lori found a non-LDS therapist and got help. More like this needed!
Thank you so much!💜
I disagree with her description of the temple ceremony . It was something that spoke to the devastated LDS pioneers who had been terrorized onto the trek across the United States territory. She apparently didn't stick with it, because the ceremony has changed dramatically. Perhaps it was a ceremony that would be more appropriate for the pioneer time period. It has changed to help us in our time period.
@@KemAtkinson I stuck with it for 20 years and ended up suicidal and in the psych ward. I think I gave it too much time, but thanks for sharing your judgmental opinion. Leaving the church is hands down the best decision I have ever made, If you love the temple, great, but stop judging people who don’t.
@@KemAtkinsonAre you not aware of all the people who have spoken out about how disturbing the temple ceremony is?
This is the interview I didn't know I needed. I was thinking the other day that I never want to tell my mom (I'm in my late 40's and she's in her early 70's) that I'm ambivalent about my belief in God because I'm scared she'd literally have a heart attack. 😢 But I feel the weight of all my secret agnosticism.
Maybe she resp. her soul is waiting for you telling. Because it's the truth. What an effort it is to protect our nearest people from the truth and keep us from really being who we are! Maybe she needs this attack of LIVE!
I was never encouraged to get a college education. I was completely focused on getting married, having children and keeping a home. Later when my marriage was falling apart I went back to school while juggling all my other responsibilities. So glad to see the church is doing better and at least encouraging women to get an education. I am 68 yrs old . I had the same experience in the temple with the vale over my face. I was 17 when I married. I remember I kept asking what is wrong with me that I had to cover my face. Glad to see they don’t do that anymore either. I no longer trust the men or the priesthood in the church.
Nevermo here, 3 generations atheist in fact, but THIS is why I watch Mormon stories podcast! Amazing women overcoming systems of high control and oppression. Makes the state of the world feel a little less bleak listening to women overcoming these circumstances.
I came out of a different cult. But i know now the Bible is true. " while we were His enemies, Christ died for us" "God is Love" . Dear sister, Receive His Love, His blood on the cross cleaned you from all sin, and you can break your family cycle too.
@@artladi1453 ew, no thanks. Didn’t ask
Wow. I relate so much to Lori’s story - 8 days in a mental health ward. Panic & Anxiety & even getting diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis. Plus the luck of having a supportive loving husband and starting to find true peace.
I just unfortunately hit the brakes on church at an older age.
Lori was a joy & inspiration to watch & listen too.
I’m 67 and was always super active with 4 kids in 5 years. Divorced twice! Stake Young Women’s Pres. Seminary teacher etc. Turns out that I too had the same situation as Lori.. I was diagnosed with major depression and GAD and suicidal ideation.
My mom died 6 months ago without telling her of my trauma in Church. Like Lori I couldn’t tell her.
Long story short.,, I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis at aged 50 😮. I’m now in assisted living for help with osteoporosis, mental illness, and M.S. .
I fortunately, had 2 years of a break in COVID years to begin studying the church history and doctrine. I went down the rabbit hole. I finally, saw TRUTH. Through reading 33 books watching Mormon Discussions, Mormon Stories, etc. I gave myself a BREAK!
Please, ladies, give yourself some time out too. ❤
I never heard anyone talk about panic attacks the way I experience them and the way yall validate them means so much to me. Thank yall so much
I'm so happy this resonated with you. 💓
My “friends” from church dropped me (i was chuned) , it was so bad that even when I saw them in public they wouldn’t talk to me. You are right, your church friends aren’t your friends. They didn’t even care to know why I left the church
they were never ur friends... just bc you belonged to the same church dn make someone ur friend.. friendship word is used loosely .. and in theory... all over the world in every religion... choose ur FRIENDS wisely.. ppl u do activities with are ur colleagues, sisters, acquaintances etc.. ur FRIEND is different..
They especially don't want to know why you left the church. On some level every member realizes they are vulnerable to information that could cause a crack in their belief foundation. It doesn't mean they didn't love you, or that they don't miss you. But you are now kryptonite to them.
Lori I find it appropriate and heart breaking that you had to be your own hero. Thank you for sharing your story. You do it in such a way that smashes stigma. You made me feel less alone today ❤️
Thank you for your kind words! There are so many of us with similar experiences. ❤
I volunteered to be in the Nursery. My baby ended up in the hospital. I called the RSP to tell her l couldnt be there because l would be in the hospital with my baby & she would have to find someone to take my pl😂ace in the nursery. I was told that She got up in front of all the Releif Society & told them,"Kathy Nelson was supposed to be in the Nursery. She isn't here today. When you volunteer to be in the nursery dont put it off onto someone else. It really hurt me that she couldn't have enough compassion to even mention that my baby was in the hospital 😢
@@kathymunsee6468 That's terrible that she did that to you. Mentioning your name and trying to publicly shame you when your MOST IMPORTANT task was to be with your baby!
And you probably never had the opportunity to let people who heard that know what the truth was. I'm really sorry that happened to you, and I hope you've found a better place to spend your Sundays.
There are far too many abusive individuals who are chosen as leadership in the church. And all of the men's positions have absolutely no checks or balances on their power. When a leader commits abuse there's no one trustworthy the victim can turn to for relief. The abuser just stays in power.
Fantastic interview. On a side note, I wish Margi had been my mom. I would be a completely different person today. What a great lady ❤
"The world is full of beautiful, wonderful people." Yes! I always thought I loved people as an evangelical. But it wasn't until I left that I could really celebrate the uniqueness and diversity without trying to "save" or change them.
In 1978, I told my bishop I was depressed and wanted to go to counseling. His response: "If you were obeying the commandments, you would have no need for therapy."
My dad died by suicide a year prior.
I am so sorry to hear about your father. I remember when I began to struggle with mental health, and then physical health, my mom kept telling me to just have faith, pray and read the scriptures, and I would be healed.
It is very irresponsible for church leadership to give counsel on mental health issues. I hope you are able to get some help and relief from your depression.
I am so sorry to hear this.
I am so sorry that’s horrid and happens too much!!!
I’m so sorry you had to deal with that effing idiot.
I am terribly sorry that that happened to you .
I appreciate that she's talking about panic attacks. About 2 years ago I had intense anxiety and panic brought on by stress. (I've been helped by therapy, meds, exercise since then.) I remember when I was having the anxiety and panic I'd sometimes feel ashamed of it, like it was a weakness, like I was a freak, etc. Hearing people talk about their experiences is reassuring. It's a reminder that when we experience these things, it's not something to be ashamed of. Many people go through it. We deserve compassion and proper help.
Fabulous, life-changing, inspiring episode! One of my all-time favorites. Even though I grew up in an orthodox, pioneer-stock Mormon household, I was blessed with a feminist mother who had a life and activities outside the church as well as inside, who traveled, learned languages, sought continuing education, and taught her sons to not only value women but to learn how to take care of ourselves so that we were independent without depending on strict, oppressive gender rules. I will be forever thankful for her example.
This was such a great show! I joined the church at 15, the only member in my family and was so love bombed and fell into such indoctrination! Served as RS president several times etc. and finally ended up leaving after watching LDS Decisions and seeing what I was never taught. So much power was taken away, and now feeling so empowered!
Jew and jewish studies grad student here--i think "formerly religious Jew(s)" would be a good way to phrase it instead of exjew! We are an ethnoreligion (and ethnicity and a culture in addition to a religion) so you're correct that exJew would not be a good term to use. Thanks John!
Thanks for this! My kids are Bosnian Muslim ☪️ ... I will be using ethnoreligious as much as I can in the future!
Anybody seeking help from Dr. Jon would be fortunate to have him on their side. He's obviously deeply empathetic and has such an incredible personality.❤
I am a secular Jew. My great childhood friends were a family of Mormons. My mother… a great reader told me the story of Joseph Smith..the story that bigomy began because Joseph Smith wanted to ensure that the wives whose husbands died along the trail were cared for.
I can remember going to Susquehanna Pa to see and tidy up the grave of Joseph Smith’s son.
It was all a lovely fairytale. They had one daughter who questioned the church. She ended up committing suicide. It was a fully angry gesture aimed at her family…but they believed it was a mistaken hit and run. What a wasted choice. The thing that struck me was how these quite brilliant people put steel traps around their thinking.
Help us understand John, for how many years were able to swallow this stuff lock, stock and barrel. You were devastated when you were excommunicated… can you say what that was about.
Just a reminder given the comments about disability & employment here that physically disabled people also work - my husband is a quadriplegic and has a Ph.D. and is a college professor, all of which he got after his injury. :)
absolutely...!!!
My father was a quadriplegic the last 17 years of his life. He got his bachelor's and master's degrees in Psychology as a quadriplegic then went to work for the Department of Rehabilitation in California as a counselor.
I am a regular listener of Mormon Stories but first time commenting…. This is my favourite podcast so far. What an inspiring woman- her story telling is so beautiful, so many incredible points made. And the way she ended it talking about finding joy in simply getting to experience life- something that the rest of us take for granted most Sundays. I’m in awe!
Thank you for your beautiful comment. I'm so glad my interview resonated with you.💜
She really tells her story so well, she keeps you engaged. Amazing story!
Thank you so much!💜
Semi active male, married LDS here. Thanks for sharing your story. I have GAD, Bipolar and Depression. I’ve been suicidal and admitted to a hospital psychiatric ward for 3 days. Therapy wasn’t helpful for me. LDS therapist told me that I just needed to read my scriptures and pray and a non-LDS therapist told me I needed to find the “real Jesus.” Neither was helpful. What’s helped has been a a caring psychiatric provider and years of helpful medication. I go to church when I want and stay home when I feel like. I still can’t convince my Bishop that my anxiety disorder isn’t Satan! Oh, and I’m not afraid to say no at church as well. m
One of the struggles I have is how completely different things are from one bishop to the next.
We both have GAD and stay home from church as needed. Your bishop thinks your anxiety is from Satan. Mine, upon learning my lack of calling was hurting me, made me the program coordinator who types of the Sacrament program and weekly announcements so I'm still connected and serving in a meaningful role whether I can attend or not.
We both struggle. I am not magically more deserving of better treatment. I just have a better human serving as my bishop.
@@tinkeramma thanks for your comments. It’s nice to know that I’m not the only one. I actually like my bishop, but he can be a little odd at times. I’m sure he thinks the same thing about me! LOL! For example, he once asked me to buy some food for the Ward Picnic and he would pay me back. I asked him if I could get a discount on my tithing instead? I thought it was pretty funny, but he just didn’t know how to take that. I’m glad you got a calling that works for you. I have a very difficult time with callings. The last one I had was the Executive Secretary to the previous Bishop. Not sure why he needed me as he was former military officer and had every thing very organized. If was a good calling for me because, like you, I felt connected, yet didn’t have the anxiety of really having to do anything. I learned a lot about the inner workings of the Church in that calling. It was very interesting.
NO therapist should be bringing religion into things
@@llamamama2910 After that experience, I wholeheartedly agree. She initially offered “Christian based”counseling to me, which I thought would be harmless. I was wrong.
I hope you are doing better, and now that you are appreciated and needed and your contribution doesn’t have to be perfect. Day by day is great
Never been LDS here, just want to say thank you Lori gor for sharing her story. And the care she gives to all women.
Love seeing Lori on here! I had the privilege of working with her years ago and I too was the working mom where my husband stayed home. Her great example helped me to see that it was ok and actually a good thing. Glad to see she is doing so well.
Thank you so much for commenting! I hope you and your family are doing well! ❤
I was married at 18 and was not a Mormon.
You didn't belong in the temple. How dare you .
I asked all my family members if they could think of a single time where a woman was mentioned in the bible or the Book of Mormon for doing something that wasn't related to their relationship to a man. Mother to a man, daughter to a man, sister to a man, witness of a man etcetera. Nothing. Literally no one could think of an example. That's how little worth the Abrahamic religions give women.
An angel appeared to the wife of Manoah. He had to be told by his wife, that she was going to have a son (Samson) who would save Israel
@@jacobmcneal3011 So she was important because she gave birth to a male ruler.
The widow of Zarephath, the widow of Nain, the Samarian woman at the well. I am grateful that these women’s stories were included in the Scriptures. It is clear to me that you have a chip on your shoulder. I served as an Elders Quorum President a couple of years ago. I requested the possibility of have 2 sisters as my counselors, I value their perspectives and viewpoints.
@@jacobmcneal3011 What are their names?
The Bechdel test is ancient
I just got my name removed from the the church and when I interviewed with my bishop I was gaslight about the information i learned here alot and he threaten me with eternal repercussions for my decision. I was mislead from the start so my decision wasnt valid when I didn't have all the information. The good the bad and the ugly. Thanks for this
I did that in 2019. I will tell you, my mother’s soul rushed through my body while being in the mountains. I never went to the temple. Our loved ones are with us all the time. They never leave us. They just want us to wake up and know they are here.
Why did you allow an interview with your bishop if you were leaving? You didn’t need to. I’m sorry he was horrible!
After the 911 attack happened, a returned missionary spoke, he said the attack happened because New York was evil. After sacrament meeting, I left and walked home, fuming!
I’ve never been Mormon, but I was raised in a patriarchal church, the Church of Christ. I think a higher percentage of Mormon men want to give women the priesthood because of the responsibility and work. And Mormon women don’t want any more work than they are already doing. It’s not like the men are going to help with the women’s duties in return.
Oh I am looking forward to this interview. We need to hear more from women in 'leadership' roles who have left.
Made me frustrated again with the healthcare system - high cost, little or no help for years. And being correctly diagnosed sounds like being lucky. So glad Lori finally received help.The "system" is extremely frustrating.
Guys hands down best episode, but most triggering for me, Lori, thank you so much, your vulnerability in telling your story is beyond a gift to others like me that have experienced the Mormon upbringing.
Just a different angle and from personal experience as a SA victim/survivor, I was re-traumatised over and over because of the deeply intrusive bishop interviews, going for my temple recommend, calling interviews. To be stuck in a room alone with a man was terrifying, and the questions are beyond inappropriate.
I’ll be medicated for the rest of my life help with the day to day unfortunately. It was a soul destroying experience.
And like you Lori, getting my endowments was the beginning of the end for me, if my mother didn’t take me and my children in when I decided to leave, I wouldn’t have survived it, everyone else turned on me. It was brutal, but to stay would have had cost me my life, the mental load was too much.
Once again guys, thank you, thank you, thank you. You are helping to undo life long brainwashing and in such an understanding, empathetic and loving manner.
I call my self a bottom heaven hanger as a petty insult to the church, I’ll be there with my wine and cheese having a great time, it never quiet gets the laugh I’m after from my LDS members.
I am so happy my interview resonated with you. Here's to joy and healing!💙
Thank you for Saying, “ A lot of our viewers are not Mormon.” The small things being said, helps to understand so much more. Thank You Lori. 🤗
Thanks for this episode! I love to hear women voices. Growing up in the church I “knew”the church had the path to happiness. If somebody was not happy, it’s because they were not trying hard enough or doing enough. I am now 40+, and I am finally getting help for depression I have had my entire life. Being in the church only made my depression worse because I was never enough. Thank you for helping normalize the mental issues and getting help!
Amen, Amen, Amen! I have had more peace in my life since leaving the church than ever before! Once I realized it’s MY life and I have choices, it’s been AMAZING!! Thank you for sharing your experiences.
This is one of the most brilliant women I have heard you interview.
Thank you for being so vulnerable and open and authentic.
Of my favorite writers, Leo Buscaglia said he believes that if we meet 'God,' 'he' will have only ONE question for us:
"Why didn't YOU become YOU?"
This idea really stuck with me when i first read it in college!
Since then, I've thought about how people like Lori are invaluable in this world, not as her 'Mormon conditioned Lori,' but as her authentic self, 'Lori,'
... the 'Lori' the Mormon church was hell bent on snuffing out. Think of what that means?!
Think of the loss to this world of the individual that Lori is!! Think of what all of the other 'Lori' individuals had to offer this planet! And the church labels that individual as 'worthless,' if not altered and controlled under their power!!! They literally call it 'UNWORTHY!'
Apart from submitting myself to obedience to Mormonism, accepting their Identity, i am 'unworthy': 'No value!'
'WORTHLESS!'
Actually the opposite is true!! Lori is of infinite value and worth on this planet as HERSELF, apart from obedience to Mormonism or other mind controlling entity! That's the whole basis of the foundational belief underpinning democracy!! EACH INDIVIDUAL MATTERS!
Stamp out the individual and clone everyone under 'one truth' is the goal for this, and any group that wants the control, the POWER, ultimately... The MONEY.
We don't like to tie all this to money, and i don't think that's the only motivation behind it, but $250 billion should speak for itself. LOUDLY.
Meanwhile, if we don't become our authentic, individual self ('why didn't you become YOU?'), it's a loss to this world that is unimaginably tragic!
Women like Lori show the way that we can't even see, or know exists sometimes. We can't become our authentic selves if we don't know it exists and is being silenced! The church hands us our identity and our facade, our image, and we think that image is 'ME.'
Living in Utah, I've become so aware of the facade, the image, and what it looks like, and I'm heartbroken as i interact with these women and wonder who they really are, and i hurt for them that they don't know their own Identity! They are usually trying to control people around them as if they are 'in the know' and others (like Lori's husband's grandma) are lost.
I'm thinking, 'you don't even know YOU, and you're trying to tell me how to be me??'
You've sworn 'obedience to leaders' as your identity that makes you safe, gives you a ticket to a celestial heaven in the NEXT life, with your family, but only if your family is sworn obedience to those same leaders! Clones!
And in THIS life, in THIS world, YOU are absent! Your thoughts are in the NEXT life, and fighting to get you and your family there through obedience to Mormon leaders! It's the unimaginable tragedy!
You were born to be HERE! Robbing this planet of YOU is a CRIME!
I believe THIS world literally cannot be whole without YOU.
That is why your story is so powerful and important!!! Thank you for telling it. 🫶🏻
Thank you so much for sharing your beautiful insight. Living an authentic life is where true peace is found. ❤
So thankful I left 20 years ago!
Thank you for addressing the questioning that constantly happens when something bad happens and you think "is this God punishing us?" Or "is this because I left the church?"
I'm a never mormon but as a cradle Catholic, your story could be mine. I'm in the midst of it now but hearing stories like yours is so validating. Thank you for sharing your story, Lori.
I used to have anxiety attacks and would go to the ER quite a few times as she did and they said no it wasn’t a heart attack it’s a panic or anxiety attack.
For quite a few years I would have the same dream or better yet a nightmare and it was never even thought of during waking hours. I would wake up in a sweat and in a total panic feeling that I had done “something” unknown but Because of it I had let everyone down. It was very real to me. I now realize what it all meant.
The church has really done a lot of damage to me and too many other women. I watch these videos and almost have an attack because I get so angry and feel so betrayed, mislead and basically lied to my whole life until age 45. Watching and listening to these are helping because it’s bringing things to the surface and I’m realizing that the church damaged me in so many ways and things I didn’t even realize. I was so ignorant to the world outside the church and how it worked. At least now so understood why I was the way I was.
My self esteem is still recovering and it’s a long process for me. I know that I’m a good person and live a good life so if God doesn’t accept me for who I am now when I’m truly me then that’s on him. Is he even real I have no idea. I don’t even think about it really. We’re made to feel so much less than the men and it takes a toll on you over time. This is all so damaging and so very wrong that they do this to us as women.
Sorry to be all over the place but I keep thinking of things relating to this topic.
I felt so trapped how would I possibly leave, God would no longer love me, what would happen to my family? All of my friends were Mormon and would probably not want to associate with me anymore, and that fear was fulfilled all but a couple of friends. So I’d lose everything I’d known my whole life. But I wasn’t happy and This went on for years until that day of teaching RS. That was my time of realization that I didn’t not want to any longer be a part of the church. What a relief, a huge weight lifted. I have kept 2 friends in my city who I still am friends with but the rest are gone. All activities and social events gone. So I had to start over, it’s been hard but so happy to be free. I’m starting to feel peace in my life.
Welcome to the other side! Sending love and healing.💜
@@lorijanes-young6253 It’s a journey in itself right? The best to you too. How long has it been for you? Been since 2010 for me.
@@shirleyelderkin6919 2014
I have experienced every one of these! I'll never forget the day one of our "less active" young women came to church in pants and the young women's president told her she wasn't welcome unless she changed into a dress.
Unbelievable, you finally get someone to come to church, and because they aren’t wearing the “right” article of clothing, you send them home. Wow. You’d think compassion and comfort would be more important than a dress to a so called church of Jesus Christ.
Crazy...poor girl likely never returned!
What if they keep various dresses and skirt and blouse there? Then what do you do?
I am 79 years old. I haven't owned a dress for 30 years. I was invited to a Mormon service to hear a friend of my granddaughter give a testimony. We liked her and wanted to support her. I wore dressy slacks and a blazer. NOW I understand all the "looks" I got.
They should be welcomed regardless of what they are wearing. The church made an announcement over 6 years ago as it is a problem with a worldwide church. In Utah we wore dress pants the year it was announced it was winter and very cold. I have not heard anything about it since. I do not believe it would be a problem, especially during the winter.
Never mormon here and can't comprehend what Lori and many others of you have gone through, but I am struggling with depression and anxiety atm, so it's so so so good to see and hear the joy in Lori!! It tells me I too can get through this and be joyful once again. ❤
I'm sorry you're dealing with anxiety and depression. I see you. Sending you healing and joy!💜
Excited to hear from the Relief Society!
Before I left the church, I was having so much anxiety. I called it “my Mormon induced anxiety “. My husband and 4 children had stopped going with me due to not believing. I also taught a primary class, which I loved and it kept me in for a time. Eventually, I felt like I was lying to those sweet kiddos and couldn’t do it anymore. I started asking my 4 kids why they didn’t believe and what their experiences were. They helped lead me out. Since then, about 5 years ago, I have come to learn the true history of the church. I am so much happier and have such open relationships with my kids. No more anxiety either. Leaving the church seems to be the cure. Thank you for this refreshing story!
That is what happened to me, I could not lie to those kids. Asked to be released just a week ago.
I had the same experience with undiagnosed panic attacks and multiple ER visits. I only realized it was a mental health issue when a kind doctor read me my chart notes and asked me how I handled stress. It finally clicked that I never dealt with stress, and addressing my anxiety finally solved it.
I am commenting on the mental health aspect as I am a nevermormom. I too was at a very critical point in my life when I woke up one day and told my husband I just couldn’t do it anymore. I was admitted to a psych hospital for 8 days. As scary as this was not having ANY idea what to expect because my thoughts were just like this woman’s were. I encourage anyone who feels like we did to get admitted because it’s life changing. The therapy is intense but it truly life changing. Mental health is not something to be ashamed of. You can and deserve to get help. I admire anyone who chooses to speak their truth about mental health because it helps others to have hope.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm so happy you sought the help you needed. Sending love and healing. 💜
She’s such a strong, beautiful, passionate, and joyful woman! Amazing interview!
Thank you for your kind words! ❤
If you attend a BYU school they quite frequently will encourage a women to go into “home making or education” majors vs if you go to seek out being a doctor or any IT or anything not in the traditional Mormon mom mindset.
I tried numerous times to get answers and guidance for my majors and was always “encouraged” to apply for other classes or degrees to better support my future family.
It's a lot of fun to see them laugh together at the absurdities of life. I love Marge's reactions and the shared anger is liberating.
When I finally told my truth, my panic attacks almost immediately went from daily to every other month and became much less violent.
I never would have dreamed it would change my life so significantly and how much hope and joy there is to be found in saying "No more!" and stepping into my authenticity.
No denim? Ew. I hate when leaders would get hung up on such stupid things like that. I worked with a young women's president that would not allow any of the girls or us advisors to wear denim or flip-flops and I thought to myself you are totally missing the mark, they are here aren't they? Who gives a crap what they're wearing?!
I hope she is thankful she got a non-Mormon therapist. It could have ruined her life to have the church recommend Jodi Hildebrandt as her therapist. Wow. Think about that.
OMG
choose ur therapist wisely... however, relgion is not the issue bc the license is from the state... ethics , rules, boundaries
This is a great episode! I love that she found yoga. I had anxiety and depression for years and yoga saved me. I left the church in 2022 and am still trying to adjust and find my place amongst family and friends that are still all in. My teenage daughter has really struggled as she hasn’t had anyone her age to talk with about all these changes in our lives. All of her friends are still active and she feels lost. She has become an atheist. Are there meet up groups for teens? Thanks for a great episode!
You've taken the first and most important step: becoming genuine. As you become real those things that aren't real will become readily apparent. Now life becomes like the proverbial garage sale:
1) get rid of what you don't want,
2) sort out what can be given to charity,
3) what is worth keeping--and why.
I have generalized anxiety and panic disorder too. Very challenging. Many years ago, I was also in a Stake Relief Society Presidency. I left the Church over 20 years ago.
Wow this brought back so much trauma. I was Stake Primary President and for some reason the Stake Relief Society President kept coming for me, at a stake relief society activity they came hard at me for making some type of error with a ridiculous juvenile game we were playing I turned on my heels left got into my car and had an epileptic seizure whilst driving and writing my car off with my poor daughter witnessing all this. Note - the last seizure I had had was during my teens during exam time. The stress had got so bad.
I am so sorry this happened to you. Sending healing and love ❤
Oh my gosh. Nylons and denim. I had the same thing told in my ward. So everytime I wore denim I would sit next to the women that said it and I didn't own nylons. So I had a ball. I didn't realize how nuanced I was until I left.
Great episode. I absolutely experienced the "going crazy" experience towards the end of my membership. The Mormon church is an extremely confusing and demanding church with mixed messages galore. It was a ramp up for me, and after some ten years of trying to make it all work, I had to take a break--I just had to. My stepping away was the beginning of much needed healing. I'm so glad I'm out.
Thank you this was great but so hard to hear. So many women have died in captivity. My Mom was one, breaks my heart as an adult. Yes I STILL feel guilty at times about not practicing this faith. Brainwashing is such a reality. Cradle to the grave.
I’m so sorry! ❤
leaving the mormon church realy helped me love my children. realizing that they don't need to be like me. understanding the importance of living them nomatter what. they have grown up to be great people I'm glad that I decided to just love them.
I totally relate to this! ❤
I can relate to this as well!💓
Thank you for sharing. Your story echos mine. I can relate 100%. I had to leave church/religion behind for my mental health too.
“Ease human suffering and experience joy.” Thank you for sharing that as a purpose Lori Young, it resonated very much with me, but I have never been able to formulate it that way. What I have been saying might be a bit of the same, though: You will find the meaning of life where your longing, desires and joy meets the need of the world.
About women not wanting the priesthood:
I am a never Mormon, so my thoughts are only from some very short meetings with missionaries as a child (and reading their totally ridiculous cartoons where everyone burned in hell) and podcasts like Mormon stories podcast. So take this as a totally outsider woman's perspective, a woman who has seriously thought of studying to be a priest in a christian church, have studied to be a lay pastor and have done the service of leading the church on Sundays, preaching etc: The way the LDS practice priesthood, I would never in my life would have wanted such a role. I find there is something fundamentally wrong in how this kind of spiritual leadership is thought of and practiced in the LDS faith.
I have commented before about how I have found the whole set up with titles to be strange, like it is a scam where people are led to believe they have a much more important role than they have: In other churches a Bishop is either the leader of a large group of congregations and their personell, or it is the same as the pope, with 8 people sharing the whole world as their responsibility between them. In the LDS church it is a man who is more like a lay pastor or an iman, having no education, no training and doing this duty while at the same time having another occupation. He is also seen as having a kind of leadership no professional in other churches is having. When bishops in the LDS church tell about people calling them because a couple is quarreling or they have problems with their kids etc, it is like their congregation is looking for a mother, not a church leader. It is not at all how the churches I know about function, and I find it very un-healty.
So maybe the women are not saying no because they do not want the responsibility or power. Maybe they find it a role that is some way feels wrong?
Im only a few minutes in and I can already tell this is gonna be a great interview. Love the long form interviews and can’t wait for the Relief Society panel.
I appreciate so much when you explain things for the non Mormons which I am. I’ve been a fan of Mormon Stories since I discovered this channel, love Margies’ humanistic, empathic insights and Johns’ interviewing style, beautiful!! And by the way I totally think that Mormonism is a cult. From an agnostic woman from Mexico City.
Oh I ADORE her!! Thank you Lori for sharing your story, this was eye opening in many ways and so incredibly validating. Thank you for your courage and eloquence 💜 John and Margie, thank you for giving her a platform to share!
Thank you so much! ❤
This really is a beautiful episode I was in hospital last year it saved my life and I met some of the best people in their both staff and patients
The first time I went to the Temple was when i left for my mission (1985) i was at the MTC in Chile and after going to the Temple all the missionaries have to go to a class and continue our training. I don't remember the content of the class at all, cause my mind was telling me "what are you doing here?, don't you realize this is wrong, is a cult, wake up, get out of here, do you realized the weirdness you just went through in that session? " it was a fight inside mind. I ended up staying, but i never forgot that moment.
I had severe panic attacks from the time I was 20 until I was 53... I am now 59... And free but no religion accepts my path to freedom and I honestly don't care what anyone thinks. I have a belly button and that automatically connects me to my creator.. No human is more important than any other. Nice to see others finding freedom
I totally identify with Lori in having been released from a calling when I was confused with how a situation was handled . I knew how much I was prayerfully putting in effort to be my best in the role. I could not escape the belief that the branch president’s wife had played a role( despite so-called confidentiality of his role), the unfairness and how this was at odds with God deciding callings.
"Church friends are not your friends" very true in my experience
Really thoughtful, life embracing story. I am very glad I was present to hear Lori. It was also such an important cautionary tale. Life is so precious and so short. Don't let someone else run your life. Find your joy.
Almost didn't watch this Mormon story because I thought it wouldn't be interesting. I was wrong. Fascinating and thought provoking discussion.
I'm so happy you enjoyed it!💙
My experience leaving Mormonism mirrors many of your experiences. I'm having flashbacks listening to this. There is hope, we both got out even when we couldn't see a way out. Our determination, courage , tinacity, and creativity lead us to a healthier, better place.
Wonderful episode, and I’m so proud of you for recognizing you needed help and acting on it. So much of this resonated with me, becoming Relief society president in my mid 40s put more cracks in my shelf than anything else!
Thank you so much!💜
Thank you for mentioning how women are trapped by encouraging early breeding. I feel so sorry for women who want to get out but are saddled with children that they may not have had if they had woken up earlier.
I remember the Great Panty Hose Controversy of 2005 being commented upon by my temple-recommend-carrying friend, so it made it at least to Boise. She pretty much ignored it.
Agreed Maven, one of the top ten, we feminists are cheering. She is awesome, I love her story, her courage and choices.
Thank you so much!💜
Big note! John said “HOUSELESS” not “homeless”. The people that live in tents consider that their home. ❤😮
I'm the same, only one of six to leave and my family is very orthodox. I relate so much!
It’s very tough to be the only one! Bravo for having the courage to leave. ❤
I'd love to hear more about how Lori (or anyone) has navigated leaving a high demand religion in regard to their parents being in a fragile, anxious state. I mean, being afraid that your parents will have a breakdown if they find out that their adult child has left the church.
@@victoriaoliver9958 It's been hard. I have worked very hard to maintain a close relationship with my mom, but to this day she has never asked about why I was hospitalized or why I left. My entire family just pretends like it never happened. As a result, they don't truly know me. It still makes me sad.
I remember those exact feelings when I went to the temple the first (and only) time. I actually instinctively started to stand and my mother in law sitting beside me grabbed my hand and patted it saying I’ll be fine. I remember telling myself, this is crazy and I will try to be here physically but I am mentally NOT committing. It was so freaky. I tried to talk to my husband that night and he said it was just nerves. He said let’s go again tomorrow by ourselves. Strangely my “temple recommend” could not be found the next morning. It had been in the pocket of a sweater and went through the washing machine. We tried to get another one while we were there (we lived in Texas and there wasn’t a temple there then) but we’re not able to. After that I made excuses until I accumulated enough reasons that this was not for me. 7 years later I could no longer deal with what I saw as hypocrisy and belittling. And divorced both the church and my husband. I have 3 daughters and all of them left the church as well.
2:06:50 - "is god punishing me now?"
Despite being raised in the mormon church, I've never really considered myself a believer. I feel I 'left' when I was a teenager.
However, 4 years ago when I received a call from an ER doctor, calling to tell me our daughter had been killed in a car crash, one of my FIRST thoughts was "What did I do so wrong that caused me to deserve this?"
Nearly 30 years of not attending and not believing in the mormon faith, and I still found myself guilt-ridden and looking to blame myself for something so clearly out of my control. The tentacles of mormon doctrine run deep. I hope Lori (and others) can continue to find her way out of the shame and guilt that relegion seems to forever hold us accountable for.
The modesty story is a good example of not how I can't live up to church standards but how I can't lower myself to church standards.
Omg! This was so good!!!!! The comment find your community and church friends are NOT friends .... I can attest they are not! I've found my community and I'm so glad to be out of Evangelicalism.
Same ❤
Incredible interview. Thank you for telling your story, Lori. The impact of your story will ease the suffering of so so many people. I can only speak for myself, but I got so much out of this episode and it’s inspired me to seek more peace and joy in my life.
Thank you so much! Here's to seeking joy!💗
I feel bad for what Lori has been through. But it bothers me to hear her say that because her husband's grandma never became a member, it's church doctrine that she'll be punished, won't go to Heaven, will never see her family again, and will never get another chance to accept the gospel. None of that is doctrine. The church teaches that after the resurrection, everybody (with a very few exceptions) will go to one of three kingdoms. They are ALL kingdoms of Heaven. They don't teach that family members will never be able to see each other again. And it isn't doctrine that if somebody rejects the gospel, they'll be punished. Or that they'll never have another opportunity to accept it. You hear church members say that sometimes, but it isn't doctrine. Only the Lord determines whether or not somebody's "had their chance."
I was thinking the same thing. Mormon stories can be interesting but I wish they’d be mute factual. There’s always a negative spin on discussions. John is definitely here to make the LDS church look as negative as possible. It makes me lose respect for Mormon Stories.
@@kimberlythomas4373 You can always chose not to listen.
There is much false information and doctrine spread through this podcast. Of course everyone has their own experiences and perspectives, but much of what is said is not doctrinal, accurate, or true. The doctrine of the Christ of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is incomprehensibly merciful and loving, and many people misunderstand that. The adversary has done a stellar job at muddying the waters of the pure, beautiful and TRUE doctrine. I went through years of doubt, disdain and disgust with the Church … and then I had some pretty miraculous experiences that taught me what the gospel truly is about, and I haven’t looked back since regaining my testimony.
@@blittlefield3864 And many of us have found true joy and peace by leaving. To each their own. If you don’t like the content being shared, I do wonder why you’re listening.
@@blittlefield3864 Are you trying to convince us or just yourself? Are you sure you know what your doctrine is-maybe Joseph’s hat made a mistake, while translating…🪄🎩