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Our Bible consultants discuss our most controversial moment
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- Опубліковано 15 сер 2024
- Only a handful of seconds, this moment caused more controversy than any moment in The Chosen. Would Jesus need to prepare a sermon? Isn’t he God? What does being God and man look like? Our three Bible consultants (Dr. Doug Huffman, Rabbi Jason Sobel, and Bishop Robert Barron) chat with Dallas about all of it, including the verses regarding our choice, in this first excerpt from our Bible roundtables.
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I hope Bishop Barron is given some more times to comment on the show with less interruption in the future. Bringing him in was a tremendous move guys. Independently of whether you're a protestant or a catholic, and leaving aside whatever theological disagreements we have, learning from him is a great gift.
Exactly! I don't even agree with Bishop Barron on everything but people need to expose themselves to him without him being continually interrupted and he wasn't being pedantic.
I'm just going to leave one thing here, as I do generally agree... The council of Trent claiming that protestants are anathema still stings, as it has never been removed or properly changed.
Catholics believe that Protestants are anathema. While modern catholics may not express this, some of their core beliefs teach this.
Dallas asks for opinions regularly, then interrupts and tells us the obvious which is what is shown in the series. I wish he could sit back a little more and stop plugging his point of view then pretending that he's polling scholars for their input.
I am not Catholic but men please he has a lot to offer and I just wish he would be allowed to process his thoughts without interruptions
Yes!!! Thank you! They missed big time, we enjoy our Bishop Barron every day.
This is why the Church is needed. 2000 years of study and commentary to learn from and not just our own interpretation. Their inquiries about Jesus have already been studied, thought out, prayed about, and written about. Pride always tells us that our thoughts and revelations are the first of its kind and that our interpretation makes the most sense. Humility learns from the wise.
Precisely why I'm so happy we have the Church. The Saints have pondered these things nearly endlessly, to such beautiful understandings and conclusions, and they're right there for us to draw on!
Exactly, this whole argument was settled by the third ecumenical council.
Jesus walking about like that, as if looking for inspiration for his parable, is incredibly off-base.
This idea that Christ acted not upon himself, but only by the Holy Spirit or as some divine marionette, is a ginormous heresy.
The Word was incarnate and made flesh. However that flesh is part of his divine nature as well!
It's why we believe his divine body and blood is sufficient for salvation and is present in every Eucharist!
He acted as God on this earth having one essence with God and being God in the flesh. Jesus working in conjunction with the will of his father was always an illustration of their perfect love and harmony. Not as a subject obeying the master. For Jesus is in complete union with God the Father as well.
I took great offense to them suggesting that Jesus was not acting upon his own authority, but could only perform his works through the aid of the Holy Spirit.
Agreed Delilah
@@DaBearsManiac2 Kind of makes me sympathize with Bishop Barron more than I usually do, realizing these are the kinds of heterodox goons he's speaking to.
Google Pope Paul's audience hall it's designed to look like a serpents head 😳🤔
I don't know if folks fully appreciate these talks. A Catholic, A Jewish believer, and Protestants talking about Jesus in depth is truly extraordinary.
It's incredible. John 17 oneness?
There are many Jesus' in Jesus time. He didn't even exist. What is your source? Your bible that is full of myth?
I love these talks, and is 1 main reason why I appreciate the show so much. Much thanks 🙏 Halleluyah!!!
It truly is... one of the things that struck me as so special, Dallas' and the other creators of the show, their desire to get this as right as they can. Peacefully... respectfully... so impressive.
@@krioni86sa A scoffer seeks wisdom in vain, but knowledge is easy for a man of understanding. Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge. The wisdom of the prudent is to discern his way, but the folly of fools is deceiving. Fools mock at the guilt offering, but the upright enjoy acceptance. Provers 14:6-9
Bishop Barron's humility shines as he is interrupted more than once after Dallas explicitly asks Bishop for his Theological perspective. I would appreciate hearing the whole discussion.
To be fair, they're all doing a bit of interrupting!
There's a cut at 7:21. He probably said his piece and it's on the DVDs.
They're all piggybacking off of one another. It's less interrupting, more of a puzzle they're participating in putting together and a train they're following to get to the same picture and the same destination.
@@JustWriter Well said! I don't see it as interrupting either - it's not like some political program where the talking heads are all trying to score points from their own team. They're sharing perspectives and listening to each other. It's like having an intense conversation with friends - one says something, and it makes you think of an insight you didn't know you had before and you want to share it.
Absolutely! A true man of God -Bishop Barron
As I don't take this series, well done and anointed as it is, as the Gospel, I don't have any conflict with how the writers portray things unknown, i.e. things not in scripture. This show has consistently made me, and probably literal millions of others, think more deeply about Jesus and the Word of God. That's a WIN.
So well put Alicia! Agreed!
Not really. I've already had conversations with people who thought the Chosen was accurately depicting things as in the Gospel and taking it as truth. In a largely Biblical illiterate culture, fictionalizing sacred history is deceptive and contributes to confusion, esp as viewers are not directed to follow up with the facts with careful resources or index the scenes to the Bible anywhere in the show.
@@leeabe3932 The show has been very clear about this with written disclaimers and stated in many of their online videos. This show is sparking an interest in many people to further seek after and learn about God.
@@richardcallaway4093 thank you
THATS KEY 🗝️ THINK DEEPLY 🤔.....AND DEFINITELY "OUTSIDE THE BOX"
I do genuinely wish we got more uninterrupted input from Bishop Barron. I get a lot of what he says requires explanation for most people, but he comes from an incredibly intense and intelligent background and his input here seemed to be the one most talked over or cut short.
Totally agree!!!
It was very frustrating to watch because Bishop Barron was hardly able to complete a sentence.
well, he can get a lil wordy sometimes, you know? 😅
@@mnm2156 I find that reassuring, it means he actually knows what he's talking about beyond the surface level of a layman's understanding, and that's exactly what the team at the Chosen (and any Christian media company) needs. You want a scene that has more than just pretty clothes and good writing, you want historical accuracy and theological depth that shows us some really powerful things - and some "Easter eggs" for people that know to look for them.
The catholic? Why? That guy prays to Mary and asks a dead "saint" to help him find his lost keys.
I'm so impressed by the Rabbi who knows & understands more about Jesus' incarnation than most Christians!! Bishop Barron is the best of the Catholic prelates you could have on these panels! Good for you The Chosen Team.. you're getting it right! 🙏
Rabbi Sobel is a Messianic Jew.
@@kekort2 I've not heard of that before... such a wealth of knowledge and lived experience he brings to the discussion.
Thank you so much for bringing Bishop Barron into the bible consultants team. 🙏
Yes, but Do let him speak!
Dallas!!!!! Thank you for bringing Bishop Barron for the round table.... AMAZING!!!!
Will you at some point have a Person of the Orthodox Faith as well, to join in some of these decussions??
We love Bishop Barron - fans from the Philippines. Thank you Dallas for having him as guest
It’s wonderful to see Bishop Barron participating!
It’s great to see Bishop Barron being invited ! There is so much to learn from him . His podcasts with Jordan Peterson are pure gold .
PLEASE DO A WHOLE PODCAST WITH BISHOP ROBERT BARRON!
Bishop Baron..far out smarts everyon here..so above in wisdom and intellect.
He is very wise indeed and I love hearing him. But each bring a unique special viewpoint to the table, including Dallas bringing us The Chosen. Focusing on who’s better takes away from their individual gifts and the overall message.
@@txaggie99 definitely true..thanks to Dallas all this was possible anyway.
i find it irritating to cut off the Bishop
@@remsaga very irritating. I thought they cut him off alot. And he wasnt able to interject as much he wanted to.
I disagree. The bishop believes non biblical things, and the roman catholic church hold tradition above the Bible.
So nice to see the consultants discussing these together. Bishop Barron explains complex things so well. It’s always humbling to realise that these issues are also not new, and the church has been discussing these in the past 2000 years.
I have loved how this entire project unites all Christians across the globe. Jesus is the Christ and I know what you are doing is helping God's children know him and Come Unto Him.
BishopBarron was very attentive to the other participants. I wish they would have been as respectful to him. They dominated the discussion discussion. He could I think he would be a great consultant for the show.
I noticed there were edits around what the Bishop said.
I would agree 💯. I wish they had let him finish, not edit him out, and pay attention to his wisdom. I also wish Dallas would feel confident in his work enough to lay it out there and be ready to take constructive criticism. Unfortunately it seems like he's trying to be affirmed every step of the way, and while I empathize with that and understand that, it takes a lot of the air out of the room and it takes away from the very reason why you brought these intelligent minds in to consult. If you're asking for a consultant, you should listen to what they have to say and it should be an even dialogue not one dominated by the one who's asking for advice
Bishop Barron is confused about whether individuals can go to hell. Expert?
@@jimdallariva7208, where is that discussed in the video?
@@brucebarber4104 Bishop Barrron said that directly to Ben Shapiro when they both appeared together on Dave Rubin's YT show called The Rubin Reporr. It's very popular.
One scene, can not take away the love that this entire show has freely bought to so many people around the globe. The joy of finding Jesus all over again or re-igniting the love we already have for him. I don't know about you, but I cry, every scene where Jesus talks to anyone (btw, Roumie, hands down best Jesus actor of all time, the kindness in his facial expressions and mannerisms really pulls on the heartstrings). That to me, is what i believe the show is about and what is intended by it. Lots of peace, love and blessings to you all ❤🙏🌏
I love watching this. I have been starting to attend church after nearly a year of excuses to not. The chosen has helped to put a fire in me to read scripture and pursue God more. There is scripture in The Chosen that finally makes sense to me. I have watched many Christian films about the life of Jesus, and the scripture was still confusing, and I had a hard time connecting with Jesus. This is the first time I can identify with scripture and I feel that I am being granted clarity. I can see better now how Jesus is the son of God and human at the same time. Thank you Chosen for helping me come back to the Lord, and develop a better relationship with him.
WOW! Absolutely enjoyed watching the commentaries. The Chosen is a BLESSING to so many! One disappointment that I have watching the commentaries, is that Bishop Barron who many have watched both Catholics and non Catholics, is interrupted and is not allowed to finish giving his thoughts on the topic. Bishop Barron is a Spirit lead man, who is scholarly, a theologian, a philosopher and is a Christian apologetic... and he speaks multiple languages as well. Bishop Barron offers such a rich depth to the conversation, please respect his time when he is speaking and allow him to finish without interruptions. Thank you.
Bishop Barron is speaking a foreign language (for example, explain hypostasis) to so many believers, yet he is speaking what the Church has taught for almost 2,000 years.
The fact that this is controversial shows the void in much of the modern church's theology. This was a valuable discussion to bring it to light.
Well done Bishop Barron ❤️ Glory to God!
This discussion is superb! It clarifies the dual nature within Jesus of Nazareth. The theological minds Dallas pulls together previously and now including Bishop Barron authenticates the script of The Chosen as it presents the Sermon on the Mount. An aside to Dallas, may we have more of these deep dives with these knowledgeable theologians Blessings on this work.
.
When this man, Jonathan Roumie, portrays Jesus in "The Chosen," he is the only man who played the part as I so much wanted. As a human "man." A man who lived, laughed and loved. All other actors were so serious, so stiff (if that is the proper word). Jonathan is everything I would imagine Jesus Christ to be like. Thank you Jonathan Roumie!
You need be careful with that ideology. We are not too look at actors as representatives of Christ but instead need to look at his Church.
@@kanecena9272 I so understand what you are saying. However, sometimes I feel Christ may choose those he wishes to have get his messages out.
@@nancywizner5132 Remember when Paul was in Athens and he preached the gospel did he compromise with the world? If you had to choose to swim in a pool that is clear and a pool that is even a little dirty, you would most likely choose the pool that is clear. So likewise we should treat God's word.
@@kanecena9272 Then we should also not listen to a priest? They preach the word of the Lord. I do believe Christ Himself chose Peter as the first Pope. All apostles preached His word (at the request of Christ). He chose them. So sorry, I have to disagree with you on your reply.
@@nancywizner5132 no we shouldn't a catholic priest preaches what the Catholic church says and not what the apostles preach which they preached the gospel. Yes of course the Lord chooses his servants. My metaphor of the swimming pools was referring to should we watch the chosen or not.
The wisdom of Bishop Baron!
I thought the same. Although, it was not competition he kicked them all like a bowling ball.
I am Catholic, but thought all of them had valuable insights.
I want to hear more of what Bishop Baron was going to say.
I agree!🙂🙏🏽
I DONT...HE DOES NOT REPRESENT THE TRUE CATHOLIC CHURCH...HE IS A WOLF
@Chris Gomez Well, the key Orthodox and Coptic churches were founded at around the same time as the Catholic Church. Antiquity is not the only thing that matters. It does make the protestant churches look silly and manmade, but we should be clear that it's not true that "all other forms of Christianity is founded in the yr 1500 or later" [sic]
@Chris Gomez What? No, several churches in Greece were founded in the mid first century. Most broke communion with the bishop of Rome in 1054, but they were still founded at the same time as the church in Rome. The Catholic Church of the 1st century included many regional churches, from Rome to Lyons, Jerusalem to Alexandria. Some of those churches wound up breaking off and forming their own loose affiliation; others maintained allegiance to the established Church hierarchy.
"Orthodox" isn't one thing, it's a name for a group of regional churches that broke communion with the Catholic Church over the same issues at around the same time. It wasn't "founded," because it's not an institution. It's just a loose (and fracturing) grouping of institutions, many of which have their origin in the Apostles in the 1st century, but some of which were founded much later.
This is still different from protestant denominations, which not only broke from Rome very late, but were also founded very late, not as valid bishoprics but as essentially Bible appreciation societies.
@@ToxicallyMasculinelol Nothing says bible appreciation like taking out the Deuterocanon thereof because they weren't written in Hebrew, even though they were in the Septuagint, which was the Bible during the time of Jesus - he and his apostles quoted from the Deuterocanon.
I love how this show is bringing people together in ecumenical communication. We need to come together and learn about God from one another.
As a former youth pastor, I take great comfort in the possibility that Jesus prepared for the sermon on the Mount. It’s beautiful
Way to go Bishop Baron ❤️🙏🏻
I really appreciate how Dallas isn’t afraid to collaborate and essentially humbles himself by identifying as a learner. Yet, he makes decisive choices! Even if this movie were made by say the Cardinals and Pope of the Catholic Church, there would still be disagreement! And Dallas is collaborating with many religions to make a realistic and profoundly moving film experience. Bravo 👏
Good to see Bishop Barron in the discussion group. He’s such a smart theologian.
Thank you Bishop Barron for being part of this miraculous series , as a Catholic i prayed the catholic view be portrayed gracefully and there u are sitting with these Godly men with different views but one objective. The message of God thru his son Jesus Christ.
Agreed!
Will the entire sit-down be made available for viewing? I would love to hear more of Bishop Barron's comments about the show.
I know I felt the Bishop was cut off a few times I would like to hear his explanations.
I would love to see the whole conversation too. Thank you, it's an incredible life transforming series that you guys have created. From the bottom of my heart. Thank you.❤️
can we????
Still waiting
I appreciate the way that “ The Chosen” brings the Bible to life. Dallas brings the human aspect to the Bible! Can you just imagine how many people are relating to the interpretation of these people? Grasping to the tangible? Being able to draw back on different episodes to find some clarity to confusing issues? Thank you. This is a perfect interpretation to help beginners and those who are more advanced in their walk with Jesus!
The Jesus in the show is not the Jesus from the Bible.
@@Triple_Aces everyone understand that but he does bring a tangible view that a new Christian can relate to, thus helps one on their journey! How wonderful is that!
I've been listening to Robert Barron for years! He's great!
Again Bishop Robert Barron ,the Gentleman.
This is a tremendous opportunity for everyone to understand that context is important. To hear these men who have studied scripture in depth is a revelation.
For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. John 12:49
And what about Mark 13,11 ...do not worry beforehand about what to say; no, say whatever is given to you when the time comes, because it is not you who will be speaking; it is the Holy Spirit... this kind of clame must have come from his experience...
I love the way this series has brought all people from different denominations to come together to discuss and speak about gospel in a very respected way...Thank u God
One of my favorite Christological quotes, I forgot where I heard it, is that you don't want to come up with a view of Jesus that turns him into Superman disguised as Clark Kent. Meaning that you don't want to have him be all divine, all the time, but occasionally holding back. Such a view, I think, diminishes the real pain and full range of human emotion that Jesus experienced. Not to mention it interferes with various models of the atonement that require Jesus to be really human in order to elevate humanity.
Bishop Barron's citation of Augustine of Jesus being in the form of God and being in the form of a slave gets to it. There are moments in the Gospels where he is seen as full of divine majesty, power, and knowledge; and some parts where he acts like a regular guy (minus sin).
I am so happy to see Bishop Robert Barron on this roundtable of consultants. He's a brilliant, devout, traditional Catholic with a total heart for evangelization, which The Chosen seems anointed to do: spread the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus! Bishop Barron is a great complement to this group of learned representatives of their beliefs. Truly, Dallas, thank you!
I agree with you, but those models of the atonement are really dubious. I would say you run into an equal number of problems when you come up with a view of God that places arbitrary limits on his salvatory abilities. So any model that _requires_ anything of God is suspicious. It seems a lot more plausible to me that God could have saved us in an infinite number of ways, but he chose the mode of sacrifice because it was most pleasing to him and it taught the greatest possible lesson to humanity.
Honestly, I don't think he prepared for his sermons, but I do believe He is both truly man and truly God.
Your assessment is more accurate than those who wasted their time with books. I'm for study but not at the expense of twisting scripture to say something that is not there. The gospels gave an honest report of Jesus life and actions. Where the scriptures are silent, we should be silent and where the scriptures are loud we should be loud. A writing attributed to Peter from the first century states, we were careful not to add or take away from Jesus life. Perhaps we would do well to oblige in the same respect to avoid error.
And what about Mark 13,11 ...do not worry beforehand about what to say; no, say whatever is given to you when the time comes, because it is not you who will be speaking; it is the Holy Spirit... this kind of clame must have come from his experience...
@@pklemets "wasted their time with books"? what on earth are you talking about. how does not reading books somehow make you less prone to error? if we were silent in every case where the scriptures are silent, we would have nothing to say about huge gaps in the narrative. moreover, scripture is only one of the two modes of the Word of God. as Paul very clearly says, "So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter." (2 Thessalonians 2:15) the authors of the Gospels only bothered to include the most important details, as it was very expensive to write and reproduce these texts. the writers of the epistles did not write them expecting them to be compiled into scripture. there WAS NO scripture for decades after the resurrection. the Church had to create its canon, based on divine inspiration. it knew it had the authority to do this because Jesus promised them the holy spirit would guide them in their preaching. they were preaching orally for decades before they wrote any of this down. and they didn't just stop preaching orally after they started writing. they always knew that the Word of God was oral tradition, and they simply committed some of it to writing so it would be preserved more accurately over the ages and transmitted over greater distances. they certainly did not expect that modern people would go around saying that ONLY the writing matters, and that all of their oral teachings should be disregarded.
Bishop Baron is the only one who got interrupted every time he spoke.
Usually it was just because he was using big words and they didn't understand and wanted to make sure they knew what he was talking about. eg: hypostatic union Theologians will theologe :P
@@David-_-_- then wait for him finish and ask, its polite!
That’s because he’s Catholic.
When the Catholic makes the most sense in the room, the Protestants get antsy.
let the Bishop speak!!!!
So happy to see Bishop Barron on the team. I listen to his Sunday homily every week and he always has great insight into Scripture. Blessings to you all!
Let BIshop Barron speak more! He kept getting interrupted!
I want more Bishop's Insights
Bishop Barron has an incredibly powerful intellect!
So cool to see Bishop Barron a part of this.
I agree! I hope they release the entire discussion soon. I could listen to Bishop Barron all day.
Thank you Bishop Barron for everything you do, God be praised now and forever. May we all do our very best to be the people God called us to be. Thank you Dallas Jenkins for the running with the passion and mission that Our Lord has given to you. May the devil stay far from you. May Mother Mary intercede for you and crush the head of the serpent.
AHHH I could listen to knowledgeable Biblical scholars all day! Love the video!!!
I personally believe Jesus knew exactly who touched his cloak. Kind of like when you ask a child, "Did you just kick Jimmy?" You know they did it. You just saw them do it. But you are testing their character.
Similar to how God asked Adam and Eve where they were. God is all-knowing, but yet He still asked them.
Or it could simply be he didn’t know because God hadn’t told him yet.
Remember Jesus said he does not know when he will return, that only his Father knew that.
@@youngknowledgeseeker God didn’t need to tell him nothing. He is God in flesh form. Who was one of the three men who sat and ate with Abraham? It was the Lord Jesus Christ. I’m saying this to show that Jesus was and is and will be forever. Adam and Eve saw Jesus Christ when they saw God, so did Abraham, and Moses. Jesus is God
@@crimsonstreams I highly doubt that sir. And that is from reading the Bible. I’m pretty sure that is all just tradition. He is Gods son not God.
We know Jesus doesn’t know things. He says himself he doesn’t know when he will return and that only his Father does know.
@@gracecrosina9068 Believe me I understand how sensitive and charged this topic is for many people. I was raised traditional Christian. Of course I’ve read John 1 and studied it. I believed every traditional belief. That the Trinity was real. That Jesus was God. That you have an immortal spirit. That God burns people in a fire forever where they can’t die and just burn for eternity, all of their “nerves”, if they’re judged bad. I believed all of it.
But the day I actually started taking God seriously (not saying you or anyone doesn’t) and actually read my Bible all of that changed. We are fed many lies from tradition and we eat them up unknowingly and even love them.
Jesus being God is one of them. He is the one and only God’s *son*. He is the God of Israel’s Messiah. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob’s promised King. He is YHWH’s/Jehovah’s miraculously born human son.
You can only learn this if you seek with an open mind, read and study. It’s not even hard or hidden. It’s just we are bombarded, since birth, with false ideas we deeply grow to believe are true. So that even statements like “Why do you call me good? Only one ☝️ is good, that is the Father” can just go in one of our ears and out the other. Or statements like “This is eternal life, that they may know you (Father) the *only* true God, AND (that they may know) Jesus Christ whom you (the only true God) sent”….
Best wishes, may God give us and open our minds up to all truths, including me.
Edit: But if you were looking for me to reply to that actual scripture, John 1 simply means something like Jesus is an accurate representation of God. The word “word” was a word packed with meaning for the ancient reader whether Jewish or Greek. Notice that John 1, among other things, is most certainly a reference to Genesis 1 where God spoke creation into existence. (We have to ask ourselves questions like do we really think that Jesus was sentences before he was born?) The word of God in Genesis was an expression of Gods mind/will/intent, and carried out his will, and was intimately associated with him, finding the origin of its very existence in God. In his speech in Genesis 1 came the existence or appearance of life and light. It was even his mode of interaction with the world in later writings . To the Greeks the “word” was akin to Gods reason/logic/plan for the world, the thing that gave it its continued existence and meaning for its existence.
So yes the word “was” God (in the Greek language it was written in it could actually be “was like God”, but I don’t make a big issue of that, John still conveys the same message either way), but not literally. John was saying that the word of God can be found in the person of Jesus, that the God of the universe is expressing himself and working in Jesus. When you hear Jesus words, and see his actions in his ministry, you are seeing Gods words and actions.
This is why I immediately accepted and was completely comfortable with the concept of Jesus preparing for his sermon: mainly because I saw the significance of Jesus choosing Matthew to “help” him. Matthew had not too long ago expressed how he felt outside of the “circle.” This could be a healing quality time with Matthew. A deeper and impactful connection with Matthew is being made, which would have somehow had to have happened back then (biblical times) in some way.
This also enables Matthew to use his mind for good because for so long, he used his mind to participate in the severe oppression of the Jewish people. He admitted to Mary that he was a bad person. I can imagine that through these inclusive and accepting interactions with Jesus, he would begin to see himself as a good person, which could be part of the beginning of transformation and seeing himself as God sees him!
And we know that ultimately Matthew uses his brilliant mind for God’s Kingdom.
This is a great example of how there’s multi-dimensions and divine depth in what Jesus does - even if it doesn’t make sense.
Well done The Chosen writing team!! 👏🏾
This is what I’ve been waiting for. Bishop Barron on a round table discussion about The Chosen together with the others. Thank you. Hoping there are more of these please.
@Harry Waddington: What are you talking about? The Catholic Church teaches Jesus is the only way.
I’m waiting for Bishop Barron...ah, there he is! About half way through.
Dallas I personally love your show and how you disclose your process of execution and your research with the audience! I can only imagine the pressure you all must go through! Thank you❣️ My observation on this topic is that maybe a better choice would’ve been Jesus preparing for this wonderful sermon on his knees, trusting in the guidance of the Father. I’m not an expert but in Luke 12:11, Matthew 10:19, Mark 13:11 it is mentioned to the apostles not to worry about what they need to say but rather God will give them what to say! Our pastor shared with us that he would prepare the sermons beforehand and God told him not to prepare a written sermon but rather ask Him that morning in prayer, what word in scripture he needs to present to us that day and it’s ALWAY wonderful! Thank you Dallas!😊
Finally somebody said it. Too bad u r not catholic🤗 I never prepare sermons but it comes in prayer... if i (very poor siner) do like that u can imagine how He did it...
BISHOP BARRON!! YAY!!
Perhaps I’m bias because I’m catholic but It saddens me that I barely get to hear what the Bishop Barren has to say most about this matter. I pray that one day we’ll be able to hear more or allow the Bishop to speak more
I love Bishop Barron so much. I have followed Word on Fire for quite some time and really enjoy his Sunday insights on the Scripture readings. I’m so glad he participated in this important discussion as I really love The Chosen so much. Wonderful conversation by all.
One thing many forget... A form of teaching others when we already know the answer is to ask questions to those learning in order to lead them to understanding.
Of course JESUS knew everything!🥰
We see Jesus knowing men's thoughts and knowing other facts in the world supernaturally. We also know he lived an authentic human life with all that attendant meaning. How those two seemingly contradictory positions can meld into a cohesive whole is a mystery that I doubt we mere mortals can fully grasp. We can know, however, that Jesus took no unfair advantage nor used his Godhood selfishly at any time. We must remember he voluntarily set aside his divine prerogative when called for and used it when needed. I have no issue with how Dallas has portrayed his humanity by showing him studying for his talk. But personally, I don't think that was necessary. How his two natures coexisted during his incarnation is a beautiful mystery we'll get to ask him about when we see him.
It's possible that Jesus the Incarnate Human did not know everything automatically. It could easily be like on "Touched by an Angel." The Angels have supernatural knowledge when God wants them to, other times they discover everything just like a human. Frequently the show said, "You'll have what you need when you need it." We can't really know how the Incarnation worked until we ask Him in Heaven and even then, we may not understand it fully.
I love love love Jesus... he is fully God and fully man and perfect and yet he walked in his humanity so he would know what we were going through. He fully felt it... Such a love that he had for us that he would lay it all down ❤️❤️❤️ we will never know the price HE truly paid
Amen!!!
Good morning! Perfectly said.. 🌻
Each of season 1 had a discussion like this. More of this as extras please.
I Love Bishop Barren!! I'm not Catholic; I have learned so much from this brother in Christ. How were you able to snag him for this conversation? How long were you able to converse with him? I really want to meet him some day!
I agree Bishop Barron is excellent! His many UA-cam and Word on Fire Institute videos have helped me tremendously.
Me, toi, us, too!! (My husband and me!!)
Catholics aren't Christians... There's a world of difference between how each person from each congregation sees how salvation works.
Imagine having google at your finger tips and still thinking that Catholics aren't Christians. 5 minutes of studying church history will show you that the Catholic Church IS the church Jesus established on earth. Every other Christian denomination was born from breaking communion with and disobeying the one true church.
@@klutziekat7709, thank you!
Love Bishop Barron 👏🏻
So grateful that these men of faith from different churches within The Church of Christ can sit down and work at coming to a unity of the faith. All who seek God would do well to do so.
A question: Why, when we hear such phrases as we do in this conversation, "Christ asks His Father to take the cup from Him."; "Only the Father knows my time. I don't even know my time."; "He is the Son of God."...why do some of us hold on so tenaciously to the idea that They are the same being, rather than a perfect Son condescending to come to Earth and offer salvation to all mankind, in humble submission to His Merciful Father's will? The utter beauty of their magnificent synergy; their oneness is such a powerful portrayal of how we must give up our wills to The Father and The Son, that we may be one in them.
Thank you to all involved in bringing The Chosen to the world and helping us all see Christ and His disciples in such a real and touchable light. God bless us all as we continue striving to reach that unity of the faith. Praise be to God and The Lamb.
Because the Holy Trinity is One God, the Three Distinct Persons of God are One in Being (consubstantial). These formulations were worked out in the Ecumenical Councils of the One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church. While there are particular churches under the umbrella of the One Church founded by Jesus Christ the separated Protestant churches are without valid & licit bishops, and for this reason they cannot have the essential priesthood of Jesus Christ in their churches and so they are without the fullness of faith which includes the Sacraments.
It's amazing that bishop Barron is present. The catholic church is the only church founded by Jesus Christ himself. Therefore we should reach out to the authority of the catholic church to make our faith/life/goals concrete and fruitful.
The reason why I'm saying this is because bishop Barron is literally giving these men a lecture.
I think there is a crucial part missing from the discussion. Jesus states many times, that He spoke as He heard from the Father. I don’t believe He needed to rehearse, He wholly submitted Himself to the Father and He heard and taught what He heard from the Father (John 12:49-50).
Did he needed to learn to speak and how to behave in his culture, or when he was a baby he knew everything (as he is God) and just acted like he was a weak baby that make baby stuff and doesn't know anything?
I don’t see what you’re getting at here, It says the message was from the father, doesn’t mean Jesus couldn’t rehearse the message his father gave to him prior to preaching it to the masses.
I’m not saying I agree with the Chosen’s presentation of that moment, but the verse you brought is a non-sequitur
@@emmanuelcasado Did you know how to speak, talk, walk etc as a baby and then as a child? Didn't you have to be able to learn? Still you are fully human, right? Why would He be any different than the rest of us, if He had to live as a human being fully? Otherwise, His sacrifice would have being impossible.
@@dennyfromcharlestonsc3325 therefore, is He was a fully human then is very likely that He had to prepare his speech because he had a human brain and is what humans do when they need to speak in front of an audience.
Dallas insists on justifying this major error and none of these "experts" want to criticize him for introducing a reckless speculation that directly questions the Divinity of Jesus as the Word made flesh.. As you mentioned the scripture John 12:49-50 Jesus says every thing he said was directly from the Father. Once Jesus was baptized in the Spirit He moved and spoke under the power.
The Council of Chalcedon in 451 clearly defined the two natures of Christ.
I didn't think anything could beat the Chosen series. But these roundtables, ESPECIALLY just PONDERING it with experts, is quite fascinating. I LOVE the Chosen. Dallas is a genius. I love all the experts he brings on. It's like one big bible study!
I love the process you go through Dallas to make this as accurate as possible when developing the character of Jesus. As a Catholic I so appreciate your efforts. Especially great is casting Jonathan portraying The character Jesus. Such an amazing work of spiritual art and history. Thank you!!!
more bishop Barron!
It’s great to see that we could have a modern conversation about the hypostatic union caused by a show about Christ.
Barron hit it in the head. Great conversation. This is why this show works! Dallas is a Fisher of men!
Fully man , physically He tired, He hungered, He felt pain. but His mind was fully able to think divinely, He was also fully God. The word of God not an unsure confused human.
When my daughter was 10-12 years old she asked me a question, one beyond her years. As l was looking for an answer she said "You don't know, do you?" Rotten kids! 😄😄
"Yes l do know. I could give you a college level answer but it would be full of words you don't know yet. I'm going to have to think about how l can answer in words you will understand. "
A half hour later while cooking dinner l found my answer and called her to the kitchen.
So when The Chosen portrays Jesus thinking and asking Matthew for assistance l think of it in this way. He KNOWS what He wants to say but how best to say it in a manner we can comprehend?
Very good connection. Thank you Bumblebee Bob!
Exactly this!!! Jesus is trying to condense cosmic, God-level ideas into something that mortal sinners can digest. And the gap between me and my kids is way smaller than the gap between God and me, so it takes even more "translation."
Wow! I love that. :)
Very good way to put it!
Nice. also, I have to wonder if He asks something of me, that it is for my sake, my good, and that of his Kingdom, and not for his sake (except for His willing good for us).
I wish you had allowed more of Bishop Barron's contributions to uninterrupted/uncut. It seems from the framing of this video that he was trying to say something that was ultimately edited into oblivion, to the point that we don't even get to know what he really wanted to communicate. I understand that the makers of The Chosen may disagree with the Catholic perspective -- but if you're going to claim we're seeing a roundtable about something controversial, it would have been better to actually see the controversy: allowed to see a full conversation in which genuinely different opinions were heard (not just cut and edited to sound as if differences of opinion here aren't really significant/grounded in good reason). Not potentially cut out anything that isn't affirming of the creative choice that was made by the show.
(Which, maybe the Bishop wasn't even going to critique that, and personally I think there's a perfectly good argument that can be made for the way The Chosen presented things. But I also think there's a perfectly good argument *against* the way The Chosen presented things, and it sounded as if Bishop Barron might be trying to articulate that -- but his comments were cut/edited so severely that we didn't get to benefit from it.)
So true...he was so interrupted but i think he has the most intelligent opinions here.
First, God bless Dallas Jenkins. Second, I am extremely happy to see Bishop Barron finally being invited to participate in this project. In the last 30 years no one has contributed to evangelical pursuits and knowledge in the Catholic Church than Bishop Barron. His Word on Fire Bible is truly amazing, and his series on how to pray the rosary bring me to tears. If conversations like this are in the dvd set for season 2, then what a fine Christmas gift this would make. Finally, God bless Dallas Jenkins.
The truth is not a fact or a statement. The truth is the Person: Jesus Christ. No one can know the truth except by knowing the Person of Jesus.
It is thanks to His grace that we no longer need to perish under the weight of the truth.
Amen 🙏🏻
I wish we could have heard more from Bishop Barron, can we see the full interview?
Likewise here.
I see we are a real fan club over here❣️ Love the good Bishop too. I was so thrilled to see him on the panel I wanted to do a headstand for sheer joy😇
Hope we get to see more of this brilliant and classy man of GOD 🙏✝️❤️
I find more insight, value and truth about Jesus in Bishop Barron's talks than all of the episodes of The Chosen. I'm afraid that people will take more liberties in "interpreting" the life of Jesus through media representation than that stated in the Bible. I prefer to rely on true scholars and biblical experts than movie producers wanting to tell a good story. If this did nothing else, it opened the eyes of people looking for more answers not entertainment.
Agreed!
@@michaeljanssen2504, I agree with your assessment. Of course, Bishop Barron is an Apostolic successor, so that may have something to do with the first sentence of your comment. God Bless.
I think the thing is that people imply that if he prepared you are saying he was t anointed. One does not remove the other. He prepared and Holy Spirit showed up and filled and guided those words as he spoke them!
It's really awesome to see experts to discuss about this scene and also seeing Bishop Barron makes me smile. Thank you!
Bringing Bishop Barron on as the Catholic consultant was brilliant
FYI, there is misquote on subtitle where Bishop Barron clearly said from the Gospel of St. Luke, the correct reference should be Luke 2:52 instead of John 14:12, thanks for being more Prudent :) God is Great
I hope one day I'll have the opportunity to ask Jesus about this in person and get a real answer. While these guys are making good points, I'm still not convinced He really needed to prepare/rehearse for the sermon. I don't think He prepared/rehearsed anything when He spoke/taught plainly to the 12, or even when using parables with people.
U are right on
So very true.God needs no prep.
@@emmakeyser1459 But Jesus is also fully man. We know he felt fear (Luke 22:42-44), but God does not fear.
God incarnated a part of himself as man to be man. He is still fully God, as He is God. But He is also fully man with all that the flesh entails. He did not commit sin, as it is not in God's nature to sin at all, but I feel like everything that makes man a man without sin was what Jesus was. Adam before the fall as it were.
It almost seemed like the discussion was referencing scriptures to justify what had already been decided. But there is scripture elsewhere, Matthew 10:19 which is “But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say." The parallel passage in Luke states it as "So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves", that is, don't prepare a sermon. :) To be fair, they have a hard task making the film and they do pray about it and don't take anything lightly. See? It made you ask a question of yourself and got you thinking about something you may not have considered. I think that is always good.
You don't need to wait. He already answered this directly from his mouth in the Scriptures.
They are so close and dancing all around it. Jesus' ministry and teaching was guided purely by the Holy Spirit after his baptism. He wasn't fretting over how to say things. In John 12:49 Jesus himself states that he did not speak on his own authority, but the Father who sent him commanded him what to say, and how to speak. Verse 50, I speak exactly what the Father has told me to say. Also, he spoke as one who had authority, not merely practiced like the scribes, and the people marveled at his teaching (Matt 7:28-29, Mark 1:22). Again, in Luke 21:14-15 when preparing the hearers for coming trials he said not to prepare beforehand how to answer, for he would give them words and wisdom when the time came. These are just off the top of my head. I'm sure if one were to spend the time there are many other passages, some coming directly from the mouth of Jesus himself to settle this. The producers seemed to get it right when Jesus was being questioned as a boy. Not sure why they went a different direction here.
Suddenly everyone in the comment section are Perfect Theologians😂😂😂 AND, if y'all in the comment section think that Jesus was not fully man and fully God then y'all have to really study about your Faith even more. Also, Dallas, Thankyou for what you and the team has been doing through the Chosen. And Thank you for these Discussions with the leaders of Catholics, and Protestants! 🔥✝️🔥
Amen! Great comment! Completely agree ;) 😂😂
Just like a square circle, the Paradox of being fully man and fully God does not exist. The studying is done and still don’t see a Godman mentioned anywhere in scriptures. But one clearly man and the one true God which every man including Jesus submits to.
@@doldier You need to study scripture again. Jesus said “Before Abraham was, I am.”. This speaks to His eternality. He forgave sin, which something on God could do. We walked on water and controls the seas, which is something only God could do (Job 9:8). The list goes on and on.
@@doldier I used to think God was beholden to the laws of logic too but then i realised that God created these laws of logic to reflect one part of his divine character. God is all powerful (omnipotent) which means he has unlimited potential to do an unlimited amount of things. Meaning, even though we cannot understand it, God can indeed create a square circle and we have to sit here baffled by how he done it and why we can never fully grasp it. Please brother, don’t put God in a box and say he can or cannot do certain things simply because we as humans cannot reason them out.
@@doldier “still don’t see a Godman mentioned in scripture”
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
John 1:1 RSV-CI
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.”
John 1:14 RSV-CI
The word was God therefore the Word =God
The word became flesh
Therefore God became flesh
Two natures. Therefore Godman mentioned in scripture.
I don’t know why people struggle so much with this. It seems perfectly understandable to me.
I was asking the same question 🤷🏻♀️
Maybe you're God
Read John 12:48-50, then you will understand why its controversial.
48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”
He already knows what to say. He doesn't need to prepare for anything, which makes this scene misleading.
Another verse that proves Christ knowing all things:
John 16:30 Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; by this we believe that You came from God.”
@@lampsaltlight Read John 12:48-50, then you will understand why its controversial.
48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”
He already knows what to say. He doesn't need to prepare for anything, which makes this scene misleading.
Another verse that proves Christ knowing all things:
John 16:30 Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; by this we believe that You came from God.”
@@asaphhere Then maybe God said...write a sermon and said no more...we don't know the exact timing of God's direction with Jesus...Maybe...God gave Jesus that sermon right before He walked out to preach it...If God didn't want Jesus to search for anything in the human part of Him...I don't think Jesus would of been sent out into the dessert to be tempted.... there would of been no need... I think God has us in mind when he did it all.... it's that simple...it's that mysterious...it's that incredible.
This is one of THE most important, significant and interesting talks I've ever listened about christology - thank you so much!!
Das ist eines der wichtigsten und interessantesten Gespräche über Christologie, die ich je angehört habe!
Great discussion and a fantastic scene in the series with Jesus discussing the sermon with Matthew.
I love these roundtables. Rabbi Jason Sobel, Bishop Robert Barron, and Dr. Doug Huffman provide the rich, historical-contextual insight to the show and add so much to a believer's understanding of Christ both explicit in and transcendent of the show. Thank you for these roundtables. I hope you will share more roundtables about Season Two. The Lord bless you and everyone here in the Lord's service.
I do not profess the same religions as any of these individuals. I am so grateful that many voices are being considered with how the events of this series are decided. It’s good to see differing opinions trying to understand each other in order to edify others and not to make one superior over another.
The 1st principle in philosophy is the law of non-contradiction. Truth cannot contradict itself and is always superior to falsity.
Such an interesting conversation! I would love to be a butterfly on the wall and listen to this stuff for an hour.
Wooo hooooo Bishop Barron!! 🤗🥳😃😁👍👏
Awesome! Dallas Jenkins invited Bishop Barron to be a consultant.
Reading these comments, I can understand Dallas's trepidation.
There is no way to bring Jesus and the apostles to life without somebody getting their panties in a twist.
These portrayals have brought many, many people to the Bible. That, alone, is reason enough to be thankful for it.
The fact that he has been so careful and thoughtful in these portrayals, and that he has sought opinions from respected clergy says a lot as well.
Personally, I think this project is blessed and will bring many to Christ.
And by the way, every pastor, priest, or other clergy that gives sermons, interprets the Bible. They are no more perfect than Dallas. He is just giving us the gospels in movie form......and doing a really good job of it.
God bless you all. Just relax and trust in Christ.
No one mentioned that he's the living Word of God (John 1:1-14) or that he taught in the temple when he was twelve (Luke 2:41-52)? There's evidence for both sides, so I'm really, really surprised these weren't even mentioned, especially when a) they're so well known, and b) they're included in episodes of the show.
Very good
And what about Mk 13,11 ...do not worry beforehand about what to say; no, say whatever is given to you when the time comes, because it is not you who will be speaking; it is the Holy Spirit... this kind of clame must have come from his experience...
Whilst I appreciate what the creators were trying to show in this scene, I think if Jesus told us not to worry about what to say or how to say it: "At that time you will be given what to say" (Matthew 10:19) I think it's likely He followed His own advice. I know He's the God of Wisdom and was filled with the Spirit the whole time with no breaks.
Another important detail - He IS the Word. So that's another big reason why this particular scene didn't quite work for me as well.
There´s nothing in the NT that says Jesus prepared his sermons, but also nothing that says He didn´t. So you may well be right that the Word was never at a loss for words. Seems kinda strange I admit. But just to comment on the text you quoted; He doesn´t say they should never prepare what to say, He says "When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour." so He´s not saying we shouldn´t prepare our sermons but that if we are brought before a trial we should not prepare our defence but rely on the Spirit in that moment to give us wisdom.
I think a pastor that does not prepare his sermons is doing something wrong.
Also according to Matthew the Sermon on the Mount was spontaneous. It wasn't something they handed out little fliers for like in the show; the people all gathered to be healed, and there he opened his mouth and spoke. He received his sayings from the Father; he said I have not spoken of myself, as the Father commanded me so I speak. So it wasn't just something he formulated out of his own mind on the fly, or came up with.
@@BillyGorst yes! preparation signals doubt in what God the Father was telling him. it signals doubt in himself. This is radical, but there’s no doubt in faith. I believe Jesus knew what His Father wanted him to speak and he spoke it as led by the Holy Spirit. i don’t know and we don’t know that he prepared it. it is going outside the bounds of scripture. whenever i am preparing how to impart Gods truth, it’s always because i am relying on myself alone and haven’t been led by God. i am not trusting God to give me the words. it i think it’s best to know God’s Word through His Word vs. through a movie or tv series which can get you to forget or doubt God’s Word. but yet, i see how this series can draw someone closer to God. so, i don’t reject what is being done through this series.
@@emlih1898 100%. And I know Spirit-filled preachers today who never plan what they're going to say, they just start speaking and let the Holy Spirit lead them. So obviously Jesus, as the most Spirit-filled man in history, was able to speak as the Spirit gave him the best words right then and there. That's what I think, anyway.
Very interesting point, OP!
I really need to see the unedited version of this. It seems like a lot of cool discussion went on and so many cuts. I’m glad Father Barron came on board. He speaks in “theologian” and yet understandably so.
Very little, if any, edits.
I interpretted the scene in the show as more of Jesus modeling, mentoring and teaching Matthew than struggling as to what to say.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
The incarnate Word of God I don't think would need to rehearse.
I still love the show. 😊
Good point. But you need to take more scriptures and put them together to be able to have a deeper understanding of it and that is why its not as simple as it seems. You will need a theologian studies to understand it deeply from every aspect.
I like your point tho. It’s a good one.
Nice to see Bishop Barron as part of this project. I am no longer in the Catholic Church (haven't been for decades), but I have always respected Bishop Barron, even if we disagree theologically on any particular issue.
Nice discussion topic as well
Got to admit, this is the one scene that bugged me. But I got it. But I got a believe that the words flowed from Jesus like a river. He didn’t have to think.
Why do you have to believe that? I'm not accusing, just curious
What a great, diverse, Christ honoring conversation. I'm glad this was in my recommended.