Sam Harris on Jordan Peterson | Doug Wilson
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- Опубліковано 19 січ 2022
- In this episode of Doug Reacts, Pastor Doug Wilson responds to Sam Harris's comments about Jordan Peterson and the role of religion.
Check out Doug's full treatment of Sam Harris in "Refuting the New Atheists" here:
canonpress.com/products/refut...
Doug Reacts is a series of apologetics reaction videos brought to you by Canon Press.
Check out Doug's full treatment of Sam Harris in "Refuting the New Atheists" here:
canonpress.com/products/refuting-the-new-atheists/
Atheists can perfectly find a goal to live for in their children, job, enjoying nature,... To believe in God and heaven is not necessary for that at all. I'm agnostic and I find happiness and love and purpose in all such things. It's your lack of imagination or empathy to understand that it's perfectly possible, I think. Another advantage: I'm free of religious dogma in trying to live according my purpose
Are You kiddin'‽ -as soon as he man's up to the Real CHRISTian Worldview and We who represent it!
It made no sense and completely mischaracterized Harris’ arguments.
Let’s get the three of them together.. Harris, Peterson and Wildon
@Canon Press You've grown on me. I'm not fond of your sarcasm, but generally I'm in favor of your POV with scripture, and am starting to like you as a brother in Christ, and loved like family. I might be nobody, but know that you are winning people in biblical favor and success is sweet.
How about: without Christ, what reason is there in righteous works? Selfishness is destructive, obviously, but why argue for self satisfaction if that's the case. Self satisfaction IS selfish by POV and purpose...
So the whole argument falls apart at the start. There are no longer grounds to stand on, in which to argue from... (Sighs) It's hard now, arguing about if truth exists or not.
Arguing the color of the sky...(it's the frequency of light reflected off of atmosphere that is commonly known as the color "sky blue" and the name reflects that fact.) The real tragedy is even When we humans find the truth, we don't adhere to it, but rather search out contradiction...like starving animals. Sin is sweet to the unsaved, like drugs. They get hooked. They attempt to justify what they do, but continue to uncontrollably. Anyone who has witnessed bad drug addiction knows exactly what I'm talking about. All this stuff is a similar attempt to justify what they do. Sin addiction.
Scary stuff.
"You must make your choice: either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon; or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
-C.S. Lewis
To this point, one must take Luke 24 as true or take it as false. Really, trying to present it as myth, fails. Luke forestalls that by having Jesus eat a piece of fish. Nothing is more basic to a living being than the act of eating, Interestingly, John make the same point in having Jesus invite the disciples join him for breakfast by eating fish on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. The Risen Christ is as concrete an entity as the disciples themselves. Not an abstraction, or even as mystical like a communion wafer.
So he could have been a mad man?
@@damon5894 Yes, but what does that make of the 11 apostles and the last 2000 years?
Evolution could 'program' certain people across time to pitch a specific set of social rules to help with social cohesion. In the same way we 'feel' love which motivates us to do certain things that are in our evolutionary advantage.
lmao he does not need to intent shit. who are you to tell how im supposed to think ?jesus died dude. get over it.
So when will Mr. Wilson have a long talk of his own with Mr. Peterson? That would be one discussion I'd would certainly tune in for.
Here ya go bud...it's your lucky day ua-cam.com/video/jey_CzIOfYE/v-deo.html
@@peterholland5517 - HUH? I said Mr. Wilson and Mr. Peterson. What you posted is with Harris. Pay attention please.
Jordan Peterson could not handle either Doug Wilson, John McArthur, Anthony Rogers, etc. He’s more comfortable speaking with Catholics and Christian scientists as opposed to the deep philosophical and theological luminaries of our day.
@@krisjones4051 if you see as one person having to "handle" another person (specifically in relation to Jordan Peterson and Doug Wilson) you think of it all in the wrong way. You act like JP would be in battle with DW, which is certainly not the way JP sees a healthy discussion.
@@dulion7697 They would have a debate dude. Have you not watched Mohammed Hijab and Jordan Peterson?
I love how people think they can just 'take Jesus' thoughts' and adopt them but ignore the fact that he is either The Messiah or a madman. He can't be both and must be one or the other. He can't be just a 'good teacher'
Bingo... The social engineers want to proclaim Jesus was just a man and Christianity is social engineering 🙄
C.S. Lewis made this point clearly many years ago Harris knows this. Sam Harris is either ignorant, stupid or most likely Blind but he can’t be all three. Folly so clear to see for those that have eyes to see and ears to hear.
@@lentner3 he's just too invested in his identity as an atheist to ever engage with religion honestly. More than understanding arguments, or gathering information, his problem is pride
@@victorborbalima His pride will not serve him well on his death bed. "Pride comes before the fall".
As a “teacher” he says few things different from other great rabbis. The Muslims give him the honor of being a prophet, which is more than being a teacher. Then against they refused to acknowledge his death on the cross, as if God’s prophets did not die. They see that if he has truly died, descended to the dead, and then has indeed risen having preached to the just souls, and ascended into heaven before them, then he is truly the son of God.
I would love to lsiten to one of those long talks between Peterson and Wilson. Please make that happen
yes!!
Jordan is still smoothing his rough edges in the world of spirituality, with his wife's guidance. It would be too daunting for him, but nonetheless entertaining to watch him try to keep his head above water.
I read this in Vader’s voice even though it’s hard to imagine him saying please.
"It's not _my_ atheism" Wow. If that's not a religious position, I just don't know what is...
Atheism doesn’t determine how you should act. All it does is say that you don’t believe in God. You can still believe in human rights, love for your neighbor, empathy, without believing in God.
Why can’t “particles bouncing around” care about each other? We see that it’s better to live in societies that show empathy towards one another and are kind so that would be a desirable way to live ones life.
@@blackdynamite3288 There are only 2 types of atheists. Harris, is the harmless, polite type, with God living rent free, in his head, i.e. a pretender. Then there is the REAL atheist, who is not.
@@eltonron1558 I’m not really understanding what you’re trying to say
@@blackdynamite3288 I'm saying, that a real atheist, is dangerous, and self centered, with no reguard for facts, opinion, life, laws, or property. Harris, has ethics, which a real atheist can't have. He is a polite harmless pretender. Real atheists act on their atheism, as what is moral, is a matter of personal opinion at any given time.
@@eltonron1558 Just because atheists don’t believe in objective morality or an inherent purpose of life doesn’t mean they can’t be “moral”
That’s like saying that if God didn’t exist, you would suddenly start murdering, raping and eating children. Well of course you wouldn’t do this because you’re a human being with empathy, who values the life of other human beings. This innate sense doesn’t go away just because you don’t believe in God. Atheists can absolutely have ethics (subjective ones)
14:17
“Harris is a Christian-atheist. Stalin was an atheist-atheist.
Stalin didn’t believe there was a god, and he acted like there was no god. Harris believes there is no god, and wants to act as though there is one.”
Truly brilliant commentary and insight. Glad I came across your channel today. I’ll definitely be back for more.
It must be almost 15 years since Harris' first debate with Craig Lane, and he still hasn't learned anything. His world view is today equally contradictory and ultimately void of meaning. The good news, as far as I'm concerned, is that 15 years ago I was a hardcore atheist and now I'm a Christian.
That's awesome .Im glad you know Jesus Christ .
Amen 🙏
And how have you faired in the minefield of confusion, deceit, and denominations, that is Christianity, as we know it?
Noticed any non scriptural traditions, that are mainstream? Know what Jesus means, in Matthew 4:4?
@@eltonron1558 Minefield of confusion that is Christianity? There's no confusion in Christianity if you study it properly.
@@vaderetro264 So, why are there so many denominations, and doctrines? Then there's English versions of the bible. They're different.
The KJV is the mainstream, the RSV, is a better rendition, as the transcribers had access to the original manuscript copies the KJV, didn't. Then there are all the new ones. When you said, "properly", I burst out laughing. Most professing, don't even know what the gospel is. They think it's about Christ, while, it's actually according to Christ.
Mark 1:14-15
It would be cool if Sam had a "Road to Damascus" experience.
Never thought I'd see Uncle Doug watching a Lex Fridman podcast 🤣
Someone taught him how to use the internetz & now he's stuck in an eternal rabbit hole of dismantling peoples shallow arguments against Christianity & terrible rationalisations for material humanistic atheism, but I repeat myself...
Great stuff as always.
& I love that you don't ever have to "attack" or take too seriously any of these ideas, just point out the obvious ridiculousness of them.
All of Christ, for all of life.
Nothing more, nothing less 👌🏻
"Clearly a prophet, it speaks truth"
That cracks me up every time
I love these reaction episodes. They are very educational. Would love to hear you and Peterson in conversation or debate, with pointed questions about the First Things.
Thank you for these Pastor Doug! Enjoy listening to your thoughts!
The bit about the "mountain dew" had me howling! Bravo Mr. Wilson.
Clearly a prophet! Lol!
This guy starts off calling people apes?!
Yes, please Lord allow Wilson and Peterson to have a building discussion on the reality of Jesus!
I would love if Doug would look into Paul Vanderklay and maybe even have an interview. He's a reformed pastor from California and he's been putting a spot light on this topic for years now.
Thanks Doug. Always good to see presuppositional apologetics at work
So Harris says that Stalin wasn't "his kind of atheist". So why couldn't any Christian, or any other religious person, say the same thing about their beliefs?
No, Stalin was a man who had sold his soul to the devil, so to speak, in return for absolute power, a power that proved hollow when he was either poisoned and/or left to die in his own filth by his lackeys.
They can and they do, all the time.
"By what standard?" Solid tattoo material right there.
It's always very comforting for me to watch these videos. I like Doug because he is so damn reasonable whilst at the same time very intellectually honest. I feel like people like Sam Harris are not honest about their own inner contradictions and hypocrisies, which fundamentally undermines their reason. They are being reasonable under unreasonable mental attitudes. I don't think they really know how dire the situation of their proposed truth is when one truly accepts the tenants of it and tries to live it out. They are hanging by a very thin thread and they don't know it. Anyway, God bless.
Very well said. Life is so much better with eyes to see and ears to hear, and you expressed it very well. God bless you Maurice.
I’m not a fan of swearing because Gods word is not a fan of swearing.
Colossians 3:8 ESV
But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.
“There is only cursing, lying and murder, stealing and adultery; they break all bounds, and bloodshed follows bloodshed.”
Hosea 4:2 NIV
James 1:26 NKJV
“If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless.”
I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.
Matt 13:36-37
I know I know. The legalistic, old fashioned Bible thumping believer… Giving religion a bad name.
No, its the cultural fake Christianity that denys the holiness of God, winks at the sin that God hates and excuses the wickedness that Jesus died to set you free of that is destroying this country.
We need a few more Bible followers and a few less Bible apologizers.
Pick a side. Either go Gods way, all the way, or jump over onto sam harris’s side.
Don’t straddle the fence, and bless God out of one side of your mouth and curse out of the other side of your mouth.
Man will wink at you but God has said in his word that it is not acceptable. Now who’s acceptance are you living for Mr Maurice.
I love you. God bless.
@@G1stGBless Damn, you okay there man?
Doug is very intellectually DISHONEST actually.
Claims like “atheists can’t care about racism if there is. I god” are absurd and the height of intellectual dishonesty.
@@DM-dk7js Well if there is no God or any kind of objective morality then you can't actually say that racism is bad. The reasoning would basically be "It's bad because I don't like it." and that's basically how "christian" atheists reason. They want Christian morality without any strings attached.
Sam Harris wrote a book about the absurd notion of free will. Now if we have no free will and we are just chemicals fizzing, why would anything written in this book be of any benefit to us or him for that matter? His utopia is everyone meditating into oblivion. Highly rational and intellectual reasoning right there.
"judicious use of psychedelics"
Your not understanding a position, does not invalidate it.
What is this utter bullshit that the religious routinely talk about "chemicals fizzing". Its bafflingly moronic.
Doug, I love how you pick fights. May the Lord continue to bless you and keep you, my brother.
I enjoy Doug Wilson. Would love to see him and Sam discuss several of these topics.
Thank you I really enjoyed the video
Informative and fun to watch. Thank you good sir.
Sam Harris is a meme tier sophist
Thank you Mr. Jones for the deconstruction videos. You really help me to understand these issues in a philosophical way. Your teaching has strengthened my faith.
None of what he said in this video made any sense lol.
This is what Shapiro argued to Harris - you're borrowing from my paradigm to bolster your arguments.
Yes, the religious do like to claim that everything good that people do is thanks to their fairytales.
@hooligan9794 your handle is all I need to read. 😂
philosophy is great to stretch the walls of the mind, a philosophic mind than only thinks in philosophy has no walls at all to stretch.
Thks for ur insight
Could you please link your source videos? :)
Just further proof that the world has absolutely nothing to offer anyone.
Excellent Video.
You the man Mr. Wilson, keep up the good work
Such comforting words- thanks, Pastor Doug!
Let the games begin... I'ma pop corn for this feature 🍿
Lol!
Harris, Weinstein Bros, and Peterson haven't done this generation of young men any justice, or maybe they are a perfect fit for the modern Beta.
When did this conversation between Lex and Harris occur? Harris was on Lex’s podcast in May 2021, but I don’t see anything more recent. Is that the episode Doug’s watching here?
15:12 - 15:24: I love this. I'm going to attribute all these seemingly good things to my own world view and pretend it has no down sides. Spoken like a true ideologue
The more Harris talks about Christianity the more firm I stand in my Faith.
I’d love to see Doug and Jordan on some sort of podcast, but the real blessing would be Doug on Joe Rogans podcast. The masses need the Gospel!!!
I have thought that as well. Either Wilson or James White or Jeff Durbin. I do believe Rogan would struggle mightily to give any solution d response to the pre-supp apologetics.
no please. keep your delusions to yourself.
I might not agree with everything Douglas Wilson says but he's a smart guy
he is culturally christian, but he THINKS hes an atheist.
like a fish thats so accustomed to water that it has forgotten that it is swimming, and now believes that it is flying.
Dr. Bahnsen would be proud of this use of presuppositionalism!
Considering petersons stance on if he’s Christian his only answer is “what is christian.” I’ve never seen him to take what he brings up as the “Leap of Faith,” even after all the “trials” he’s gone through lately. Harris is pretentious though.
I really appreciate that you point out that his self-identity does not change his nature. Claiming atheism does not make your morality atheistic, it's just Christianity with God stripped out. As an aside, I've been enjoying your inputs in the series on raising boys lately!
‘Christians should want to pursue the truth’ 😂 lovely stuff
Which begs the question. Why are so many, Sunday keepers?
yet they persue fairytales.
Well said MR. Wilson
I am sure his answer to "according to whom" would be something along the lines of "according to each person individually, each pursuing his own goals". From there, the game theory of it would suggest (thinking of it as akin to a repeated prisoner's dilemma foir simplicity's sake) that, for our own benefit, we will adopt "cooperative" strategies in which we remain loyal to the other prisoner. I suppose that even lions live successfully in prides, cooperating as needed, without any seeming express belief in the "why" of why they cooperate, and with each cooperative lion deciding to do so solely for its own good and not for the good of its fellow lions. Yet those same lions will sometimes attack and kill one another, also individually on its own terms and for its own ends.
That's what we might call a weak basis for ethics. You behave ethically as long as it remains in your best interest to do so. Of course, this is exactly what an unethical person would do, so in what sense is this ethics?
In any case, there's no way to hold, in the absence of a watching God, that it is always in everyone's best interest to behave ethically. There are far too many counter examples.
Anything that's going to be a strong basis for ethics must get people to bite the bullet and sacrifice their best interests. On that score, Christianity beats Atheism as if the latter didn't even show up for the game.
Starbucks: What? Scriptures on our cups?! Brilliant!
The more I listen Douglas Wilson the more that I agree with him
Was this interview of K Peterson before or after his recorded breakdown referring to Jesus?
If Harris really believes his own world view why is he so intent on convincing others?
If Christians really believe their own worldview why are they so intent on convincing others?
@@bepisboy291Harris's world view is void of meaning so in that world view it does not make sense to convince others. In Christianity it is a tenet of the world view to convince others because we want them saved from thier own damnation.
@@bluemm2852 Perhaps Harris wants better lives for both himself and the people around him, which is why he speaks against a belief system that he believes is false and harmful. Life needs no inherent meaning for you to apply meaning to it. Even the existence of God gives life no inherent meaning.
@@bepisboy291 Why would Harris want better lives for the people around him? Does that further his genetic line? How many kids does he have? Is he an evolutionary success? Why would he even bother caring if he's just a self aware chemical accident?
@@Cinnamonbuns13 Why wouldn't he? Is it everybody's goal to be an evolutionary success no matter what the cost? Why is being a self-aware accident less significant to you than being in the eternal zoo of some egomaniacal cosmic being? Why would YOU care less about self-aware beings just because this cosmic being didn't actually create them and doesn't exist? Ask yourself that.
This should prove to be an interesting interaction
Please please please reach out to JBP, Doug i would love to hear yall discuss eternity
Sam wants the fruit without the tree. I think Doug's daughter Rachel said that in another context.
Very well said! Thank you Sir.
Dougs course in logic. "if I'm right, we can know it, if you are right, we can't know it....therefore I is the winner! Me do good logic"
Can you steelman that?
Cheers! :)
And I was taught by theologians growing up that only by God's grace we may have salvation. So if you have faith, you can give up effort and see what happens as you receive God's grace. That is what meditation is, removing effort and observing what compels your action which is what many would call a spirit, not the part of you that feels in control of your thoughts, mediation is simply reconnecting with our spirit. Let go and let God, even with your faith and you might discover a deeper connection to your God. Not all but many Christians have an insecure attachment to God they are unwilling to face, if you have faith why do you need to tell yourself or others you believe? Believe in God's grace and let go of your need to believe and connect to yourself deeper, we are born of the Holy Spirit so the deeper the connection to our spirit the closer you will feel to God.
Christians call it grace and as nonbeliever I don't disagree. My efforts have been minimal to get me to where I am compared to all the actions that lead up to it and the luck I had to meet great people and people who gave me a chance and the people who had patients for me. I dont need a God to want to build that. To be friendly with my neighbors, to not be a pain and take advantage of those who provide service, to pass on advice to the next generations.
If you pay enough attention, if you follow the golden rule -> your life improves. If you fake it, the lies will get you caught or you will have the stress of wanting to keep your facade. That is reason enough to be a "good" person. When you provide more for others, one you feel good and worthy of love and second you build trust and people will want to be your ally. That is life on easy mode. We are fundamentally social beings, once we get over the thought that we need to have a purpose, it become evident what is valuable. And if you think we all then just will become indulgent, if you observe yourself closely, you see that you become sick and miserable eating sugar, playing video games, and watching porn all day.
I do want to say I think its a good thing to have faith, I just dont think the lack of it means that all will turn to chaos, self indulgence, and nihilism. One because its always there and we has always been close but as times get worse, guess what, people rise to the occasion and people will follow those who rise. Without chaos and lack of direction, there cannot be order and purpose. With too much order, people become complacent and/or tyrants rise. With too much purpose we become super fixated and miss what happens on the periphery or stop looking for what out there. Its a cycle and life goes on. You dont need a god to want to protect from tyrants or chaos and just because life goes on doesnt mean its not worth protecting. And if every person doesnt find those values from within, guess what not every believer has those values either. Cowards and brutes are amoung the religious and non religious.
Rant over, I read a ton of comments that didnt understand what Sam Harris is saying (including the commentor) so felt compelled to give more perspective. You dont have to agree with me and Im sure there are some arguments against what I said. That is fine, I just hope to share some thoughts to get people thinking and understanding one another. Reading the comments felt like an echo chamber, so be careful. Im not a fan of reaction videos because it creates a dynamic of someone thinking for you and defending something that on your own, you would question and start thinking for yourself - and I mean that in that your beliefs would strengthen or decline when you start thinking for yourself. And I think that should be a healthy part of a person journey through beliefs.
Lex Fridman is a very unique individual
Can someone please help me understand why you think pastor Wilson’s argument at 7.00 is a strong one? It’s the “by what standard” bit which he returns to quite often. Even if God does not exist, shouldn’t I be able to subjectively define what the best possible life is for me (like family, love, health, roof over my head, fulfilling experiences, etc)? If that’s more or less the basic definition for most people, and we share a society where we all pursue it, why is that not enough of a standard against which to evaluate whatever my present situation is?
The context was what Sam Harris wants for a world full of billions of people. Or perhaps more accurately, what he should want for billions of people. Subjective definitions don't fly in that context.
@@nathanjames7030 precisely. He has no basis for moral indignation or prescription. He can live out his logically inconsistent worldview but his proselytysing is meaningless and logically absurd
Lol “13th monkey “. Love it
Unskippable adds?
You should have a discussion with father deacon Ananias or Jay dyer or Fr. Josiah Trenham
Hello Mr. Wilson, I met you at an ACCS conference and have really appreciated you teaching and videos. I do have a question though about the Mountain Dew analogy. Why not take the analogy seriously. Perhaps that is what Harris believes truth is. To hold his position (devils advocate) he may say yes there is no metaphysical truth. There is no difference between thought and chemical reaction. It seems in the video you simply made fun of this and didn’t take it seriously. Lewis answers it somewhat in Abolition, that there are laws of logic/nature that clearly exist outside of the physical human mind. Would like to hear you dig into this proposition more than just erode his position. Would you answer with truth beginning in scripture or with natural law?
Wise old man . I'd like to more like him when I grow older
“The more the universe seems comprehensible, the more it also seems pointless.”
-Steven Weinberg
*By what standard.* Amen.
When you pull out the main teaching of Christ, to forgive everyone, society falls apart because then you don't teach but only punish and stay fearful. "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love."
"Good video": David Bartlett on Doug Wilson on Jordan Peterson on Sam Harris.
I have a couple of questions.
Does he have children? It wasn’t until I experienced this miracle that that I had the power literally drape over me.
And how does he explain medical miracles? I’ve seen that too.
the 20th century wars is riveting
I got through 7 minutes of this. There are some atheists I don't mind listening to. But the arrogance and condescension of Harris are unbearable.
It's like I'm in a room telling Sam it's dark in the room and he's telling me that's impossible but he's never willing to come into the room because I must be crazy.
The problem is that you assume from the get go there is an absolute truth, and that's your authority, which is no better than the pop bottle. On the other hand, I can quite easily say there is a fizzling pop and that it is a truth, or that the statement is true. It does not deny some absolute truth, nor does it give any credence to it. It is completely unrelated.
The same goes for meaning. There is no need for some absolute meaning of everything for there to be meaning relatively to you. The whole world does not need to come to an end for you to have meaning in your own life. Plenty of people find meaning in what they intend to do, actually all people, and some others find meaning in more abstract ideas. Believing the world will end does not give more meaning. If anything, it takes away from it, because all things then become meaningless in the long run. You look at the short term and don't build anything, just waiting for the end coming soon. You would not even care about doing this video, because apologetics are meaningless. There is a reason the first Christians didn't do any and in fact refused to do it for a few hundred years. They started doing it when they actually stopped believing in that meaning. So just as Harris claims to be an atheist and really is a theist, you claim to be a Christian while you don't believe in the Christian end. So you find your meaning in other places.
It's even worst on the morality front. You say that principle, the golden rule, without a God, people can cheat. Well they can also cheat if there is a God quite clearly. So now you are in your own contradiction, you have a God that allows people to cheat, and those that claim there is one cheat just as much if not more so. They just add a layer to it. Now perhaps you think that there is punishment for cheaters based on that same rule, that's possible, but then you are faced with a God that does not follow his own rule, because if he punishes people based on what they did, then he is not treating them the way he would want them to treat him. So that does not work either.
Basically what you are saying is that if there is no authority, you can know nothing, won't be able to make decision or act justly. Now I would just counter that you can know things through your senses, make decisions based on your reason, and act justly if you want it. And all this is quite compatible with Christianity, and it used to be held as the truth. If anything, it's what Jesus was teaching, not to believe in books and authors. That's what the Pharisees were doing.
If there is no God, why do Atheists waste time and effort talking about a God who doesn't exist?
All the while giving the Tooth Fairy a pass ...
And this is why I am a fan of Doug Wilson. And a bigger fan of Jesus Christ.
@13:30 is a fantastic response and so on point. Also, looking at Europe now, it's a hellscape.
All of Europe is a hellscape…? Have you been to European counties recently (or ever)?
You should read more about Stalin. He was a seminarian and his ideas were heavily influenced by a religious sensibility. He got in trouble with the party after Lenin died for his euology which sounded like an Orthodox sermon. He was also key in the decision to mummify Lenin and place him on a Christian style catafalque. Arguably more of a Christian atheist than Harris. Trotsky was an atheist atheist I think… Stephen Kotkin’s book on Stalin goes deeply into this
Wilson with Lex would also be interesting
Great points, especially Harris acting like a Christian Atheist, while Stalin simply acted like an "atheist" atheist (which Sam, for some unexplained reason, from some unexplained authority, cannot accept).
But Mr. Wilson, the Mountain Dew doeth speak forth prophecy! From the Code Red, from the Live Wire, and from the Baja Blast.
Sham Erris
For idealists don't know that they are stealing a car with no engine. When you dispense of faith, you dispense of the greater part of being. You can try and keep all the ideas but they have no power.
I'm a pretty rational, well-educated average person, like Harris, and I've more than once benefited from a concrescence of dismaying and wholly unexpected deliverance from death and grave misfortune... a few times in my years. Miracles one might say. So, I feel no compulsion whatsoever to stop praying and to critically scrutinize and investigate the validity or lack thereof to the significance of the variables which led to the saving graces. None. In Harris land, it's that I and my loved ones have been the recpients of tremendous good fortune as a result of the big bang so that we might as well keep eating and belching. In Christ, I and my loved ones have been saved so that we can continue living and praising God during these latter years. There are no rational explanations for these miracles. Two. Maybe three miracles. One is enough. What Harris misses is that none is also enough. It's (a little but not exactly) as if Harris wants people to believe that if one goes fishing and never catches anything then one should conclude that fish are not real and all those creatures in the market and being hauled in by others must be something else.
I guess another miracle you experienced is not being born in the part of the world where there are no christians. What a convenient miracle. What a vapid comment.
Interestingly enough Harris on The Big Think intimated that the concept of self is really illusory despite our feelings or sense of self. It should be noted he was being consistent with his naturalism at that point.
Now considering, go through his comments with that in mind. it really is a trip.
Dear Doug, Excellent exercise of close reading of Harris's discourse and pointing out the internal self-contradictions. Since Harris is on the popular (kindergarten level) promotion of materialism, it is particularly important to do so since he has a large influence. I like your humorous and intelligent style. I also agree with your criticism of Peterson which embraces some of his christian tradition but not really embracing it, yet. He is kind of the lost prodigal son slowly slouching his way home but is not yet there and hopefully before his dead bed.
As one who has taught kindergarten and middle school, I would put Harris at sophomore level at least. Not middle school. And definitely not kindergarten.
Cheers! :)
Ch
A man says to God "I know how to create life from nothing now I don't need you!"
God says "Show me how you do it"
Man says "First I gather a pile of dirt--"
God interrupts "Make your own dirt"
It's hard to square rationality supplemented by love and compassion but Sam's argument for this is not to be ignored either. I'm summarizing but its something to the degree of: living a life of love WOULD BE the "best possible life", love, compassion, giving, spending quality time with those you care for most - *IS the most compelling force/feeling/pleasure for humans* , if that's the case, the rational road leads us to the place where most of this takes place. But I guess you can level it further and say perhaps you've been pre-conditioned for "love" to have this affect on you in this way because of a christian upbringing. Perhaps people born into rationalism could render intimate relationships useless in the future without the christian roots, who knows.
I've been diving deep into Sam Harris the last year and have taken a lot of positive takeaways from his way of thinking, but in the same respect I've been spooked by the exact points you brought to light in this video. I'm 26 and I don't know whos wrong or whos right but the videomaker clearly is very sharp and can spar intellectually with the likes of Sam and JP so this is a very interesting watch. I hope he can address whether he thinks a moral compass with love at the forefront of the "postiive" end of the spectrum can be fundamentally sown into us humans without christian/religious roots. Animals feel love don't they? A lioness certainly cares for her cubs and her family, so I'm not fully convinced we'd be void of love without religion, but it's a big question.
This format is a good way to point out the errors of these arrogant atheists...piece by piece...
When did stories become scientific?
We don’t need a god to have a standard. We can have our own standards. We can share other’s standards. We can make new standards together.
All these things are still possible without a god.
Every single one of Doug’s arguments boils down to “but I have a real need to believe in god so that I feel like I have meaning” even while he thinks he’s speaking some sort of objective truth about reality.
His arguments are nothing but “without god, I wouldn’t like this world, so therefore god is true” over and over. That’s not a demonstration of the truth of your argument. It’s just what you wish.
yeah, after watching hundreds of hours of apologists, searching for something meaningful, I can confirm this is what it boils down to.
This guy is great
JBP & Sam had a debate in Vancouver in which Peterson made exactly the point Pastor Wilson makes here repeatedly, and Harris simply ignored it. The FACT that a scientistic materialism has no room for the “why” of the universe but only the “how” seems completely lost on him. That FACT that such philosophy LEADS TO the attributes he seems to think self evidently “bad” seems to really anger him.
respond to the new Rogan and Peterson!!
Wow!!.. This is the first time Im seeing the anti-christ spirit in play and its in full display in Mr Harris.. Any spirit that denies that Jesus is the Son of God is the anti Christ Spirit
What helped for me, to put faithfulness towards Christ over self actualization, was the fine point that it's true. It changes everything.
" 'A question I would like you to answer on one of your broadcast talks if you could: with reference to what you have said about some artists destroying man, what should I do? I want to destroy too.'
This student had touched the heart of the modern predicament. The desire of many young people - whether Mods and Rockers or university rebels - to destroy is the way they state their nihilism. At the bottom there is the valid question: if all of life is meaningless, and ultimately absurd, why bother to march straight forward, why stand in the queue as though life as a whole make sense?
The difficulty for society in handling them is that they are right, if everything is ultimately absurd, and their nihilistic conclusions are more honest than the romantic and semantic answers given by their elders...
'I would say to you tonight, that if we live in this intrinsically impersonal world, dress it up if you will with the word pantheism, either in the Eastern thought or in the new theology or if I speak of it in secular terms, if this is what I am, and all men are, with their aspirations, if this is all they are, unfulfillable products of chance, a sterile sport, then come beside me, because I wish to destroy too. If indeed these ideas are your ideas, you should stand beside such a man to destroy. If I am an artist I should wish to destroy. I should say with Karel Appel, "I do not paint, I hit". I should say with John Cage, "It is only chance"; with a resultant noise and a devilish din...
'This person who wrote this note understands something...but I would ask him also to be honest in considering the other possibility, that all this is not so, but rather that we started with a personal beginning and therefore there is intrinsic meaning to personality, my personality and other men's personality, in this universe. this is the distinction between the two positions. The things we have considered are not only theoretical things - they are things that cut down into the warp and woof of the understanding of life. We would say indeed to the man who will destroy a romantic concept which has no base, destroy it indeed. Demand a realistic answer. Here we stand face to face with the real issue of the new theology and the whole new thought.'
This is the crux of the matter; either an intrinsically personal 'what is', in the sense of a creation by the personal God, or John Cages devilish din!"
Francis Schaeffer, The God Who is There
Page 89
I like when people say they're a hundred percent atheist
I find it fascinating that both Harris and Wilson are determinists. So even though one is an atheist and the other a calvinist, either way both of their beliefs are determined outside of themselves. Doesn't that make any debate pointless? To me it does.