Amazing to me that this only has 905 views. If this discussion was mainstream and understood by the masses, that would be a miracle. May His will be done.
24:14 Jonathan asks Richard what he thinks binds people together in his secular perspective. Richard's answer is exactly why secularism cannot last for very long; being bound by sports and rotary clubs cannot compare to being bound by something like believing you are made in the image of God.
Sports and rotary clubs do not rally around women and children when their father dies of a heart attack at age 42. The secular world has no answers for what the church community provides but is not praised for enough which is a real support network for the trials and tribulations of real life.
@@mthoodstyleI see them as llower symbolic representations of the church. If the Church is the king, sports teams and the rotary club are principalities. But they point upwards to the Church.
22:25 in his question he asks can somebody participate and enjoy the body (distributed cognition) of a religious body even if that person doesn’t believe. I for the first time seen a clear picture of what Jonathan has been saying by what he says here 8:50 (The hairs on my head doesn’t recognize it’s participating in the basketball game but it is and enjoys it’s reward. Even if unknowingly.
Appreciated Jonathan's critique of Kierkegaard's leap of faith interpretation (of the binding of Isaac originally). Rather the way to understand it is (in addition to sacririce of the firstborn being common practice at the time) if you give up the best of yourself to that which is higher you'l actually get it back because that's how it participates in the whole. However I do wish he could have picked up further on Dr. Mandrell's response that theere's a certain pleasure and joy in helping others, because Christianity too often comes off as a purely delayed gratification system rather than helping people understand that not just joy but the greatest joy can be found in chrarity, works of charity, agape and eros in a reciprocally opening process, including in the moment of service itself.
I think Dr. Maundrell could have had the respect to push back against Mr. Pageau on the things that he disagreed with instead of simply saying "at last we agree on something!" almost 37 minutes into the talk. He looked like he didn't want to be there.
29:00 Group consciousness is not possible without a moral system. A moral system is not possible without moral principles. Moral principles cannot exist without religious principles. Religious principles cannot exist without a religion. Religion and secular political ideologies are moral systems. Religions last significantly longer than secular political ideologies. The most high status religion is of course Judaism. We know this because Christianity and Islam are derived from Judaism. For gentiles who want to worship the Abrahamic God, there is only Christianity and Islam. Christianity cannot be the national religion for Americabecause that would be unAmerican. We know this would be unAmerican because of all the trouble the Founding Fathers took to separate - or even quarantine - the church from their state. The American Revolution was a rejection of monarchy and Christianity. This was confirmed in the French Revolution and reconfirmed in the Russian Revolution. Christianity has been failing for half a millennium. It began to fail during the Wars of the Reformation. Being the religion chosen to support the divine right of kings, it failed to prevent the fall of the Roman Empire and certainly failed to prevent the regicides of Charles I, Louis XVI and Nicholas II. The First Amendment is based on quran.com/2/256. No other holy book other than the Koran even mentions freedom of belief, and we know Jews and Christians did not enjoy freedom of belief when they took their religion seriously. There is a White House Koran and it belonged to Thomas Jefferson who drafted the Virginia State of Religious Freedom which later became the First Amendment. If the problem with America is that it does not have an official religion, it can be easily solved by getting itself one that is in harmony with the First Amendment. Otherwise, its unoffical religion is the pursuit of happiness at the expense of everyone else and each other. As for Europeans, their unofficial religion is to obey the orders of an atheist and nihilist Uncle Sam bent on starting WW3. Is Uncle Sam like a transgender woman drinking i the last chance saloon before going out on a killing spree to commit suicide by cop?
God bless Jonathan for trying to pull us back from the brink.
Amazing to me that this only has 905 views. If this discussion was mainstream and understood by the masses, that would be a miracle. May His will be done.
24:14 Jonathan asks Richard what he thinks binds people together in his secular perspective.
Richard's answer is exactly why secularism cannot last for very long; being bound by sports and rotary clubs cannot compare to being bound by something like believing you are made in the image of God.
His answer is correct, but only on a lower level. It doesn’t scale above all things. He needs something above the King. What does the King submit to?
Sports and rotary clubs do not rally around women and children when their father dies of a heart attack at age 42. The secular world has no answers for what the church community provides but is not praised for enough which is a real support network for the trials and tribulations of real life.
@@mthoodstyle Exactly
@@mthoodstyleI see them as llower symbolic representations of the church. If the Church is the king, sports teams and the rotary club are principalities. But they point upwards to the Church.
Thank you for uploading this. Be advised the video description needs to be corrected
22:25 in his question he asks can somebody participate and enjoy the body (distributed cognition) of a religious body even if that person doesn’t believe. I for the first time seen a clear picture of what Jonathan has been saying by what he says here 8:50 (The hairs on my head doesn’t recognize it’s participating in the basketball game but it is and enjoys it’s reward. Even if unknowingly.
yep, just like a person in the body of Christ, and like a neuron firing without knowing exactly where the connection will lead.
Thank you All concerned for uploading the T Bay conversations
Appreciated Jonathan's critique of Kierkegaard's leap of faith interpretation (of the binding of Isaac originally). Rather the way to understand it is (in addition to sacririce of the firstborn being common practice at the time) if you give up the best of yourself to that which is higher you'l actually get it back because that's how it participates in the whole.
However I do wish he could have picked up further on Dr. Mandrell's response that theere's a certain pleasure and joy in helping others, because Christianity too often comes off as a purely delayed gratification system rather than helping people understand that not just joy but the greatest joy can be found in chrarity, works of charity, agape and eros in a reciprocally opening process, including in the moment of service itself.
I think Dr. Maundrell could have had the respect to push back against Mr. Pageau on the things that he disagreed with instead of simply saying "at last we agree on something!" almost 37 minutes into the talk. He looked like he didn't want to be there.
Wonderful discussion.
24:00 The moral principles!
28:00 Consciousness - group identity
35:00 Heidegger may have officially been a Catholic, but he was really an atheist and nihilist.
At 14:56 perhaps Olympics is a usable example -
And that’s all under the _______
Perpetuators, Presenters, Participants, Protectors.
•
Worley people - Event executives,
Advertisers, audience ticket sellers athletes, security guards and structures etc 😊
or aka “a religion and a place and participators, presneter etc 🤭
27:00 Beating up immigrants as the group objective
+
First?
29:00 Group consciousness is not possible without a moral system. A moral system is not possible without moral principles. Moral principles cannot exist without religious principles. Religious principles cannot exist without a religion. Religion and secular political ideologies are moral systems. Religions last significantly longer than secular political ideologies. The most high status religion is of course Judaism. We know this because Christianity and Islam are derived from Judaism. For gentiles who want to worship the Abrahamic God, there is only Christianity and Islam. Christianity cannot be the national religion for Americabecause that would be unAmerican. We know this would be unAmerican because of all the trouble the Founding Fathers took to separate - or even quarantine - the church from their state.
The American Revolution was a rejection of monarchy and Christianity. This was confirmed in the French Revolution and reconfirmed in the Russian Revolution.
Christianity has been failing for half a millennium. It began to fail during the Wars of the Reformation. Being the religion chosen to support the divine right of kings, it failed to prevent the fall of the Roman Empire and certainly failed to prevent the regicides of Charles I, Louis XVI and Nicholas II.
The First Amendment is based on quran.com/2/256. No other holy book other than the Koran even mentions freedom of belief, and we know Jews and Christians did not enjoy freedom of belief when they took their religion seriously.
There is a White House Koran and it belonged to Thomas Jefferson who drafted the Virginia State of Religious Freedom which later became the First Amendment.
If the problem with America is that it does not have an official religion, it can be easily solved by getting itself one that is in harmony with the First Amendment.
Otherwise, its unoffical religion is the pursuit of happiness at the expense of everyone else and each other.
As for Europeans, their unofficial religion is to obey the orders of an atheist and nihilist Uncle Sam bent on starting WW3. Is Uncle Sam like a transgender woman drinking i the last chance saloon before going out on a killing spree to commit suicide by cop?