I am a gay man and I was born gay. My mother knew something was different about me dating back to young childhood. And every gay guy I know says they were born gay. It can't be helped. I know this flies in the face of you are saying, but this my experience.
Its all fine, its a known problem to get hard data with psychology in the first place, the analogy on personality study was aptly noted from a scientific standpoint. With no offense meant; Even the observing Doctor is not excluded from influencing said dataset. One would have to somehow create a double blind study (Where the observer does _not yet_ know the groups self-perceived orientation) for a "pure" result, which is tricky to set up alone. Or maybe I am overthinking this and there are better methods, who knows. That, and there are multiple factors involved, environmental, hormonal, where genetics is just one of them. I my self have been wondering if there are any differences between how the sexes are expressed, Scientists still know fairly little on this subject. There's a book related to this from the National Library of Medicine: 4) Sex Affects Behavior and Perception ( www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222297/ ) The Future of Research on Biological Sex Differences: Challenges and Opportunities ( www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222296/ )
Gay rights activists fought for the “born this way” narrative. because it came with greater social acceptance-and not only that, it is scientifically correct. A bizarre strain of thinking has sprung forth. Due to the trendiness in conceptualizing gender and sex as spectra, the concept of “sexual fluidity” claims that anyone can be gay, and that human sexuality is in actuality free-floating and whatever you want it to be.fluidity, if sexual orientation is flexible and changeable rather than rigid and fixed, doesn’t this also mean that anyone can be made to be straight? hows that not an argument for conversion therapy? More people are identifying sexuality as part of the community not out of a true sexual identity, but because it is trendy to do so, or because they believe sexuality is “fluid.” This undermines biological explanations for sexual orientation, which has been a disturbingly growing phenomenon. Within progressive circles, many otherwise ordinary, straight people have taken ownership of the word, because identifying as “queer” grants them the ability to claim sexual minority status. In my opinion, for straight men, identifying as “queer” can be a tool signaling their progressivism so that feminist women will date them. straight, female-typical women identify as part of an oppressed class because of intersectionality. Mainstream feminism, however, has encouraged an entirely new, malignant application, with groups who would otherwise be considered to have privilege clamoring for minority status so that their opinions are given more weight. Seizing one, or a handful, of the gender nonbinary identity labels allows a person to join the LGBT+ movement tangentially, without question, even when there is nothing L, G, B, or T about them. This ideological 180-degree change is presumably an attempt to widen social acceptance for people who are gay and bisexual, which I am all for. But the implications of doing so will only succeed at unraveling the very rights that gay activists struggled to obtain not too long ago.
This was a fascinating discussion. I think you're both wrong with the sports thing, though. Even a single male participating in a female event can completely undermine the fairness and legitimacy of women's sports, not to mention what it does to the morale or comfort or civil rights of participants. I agree gender non conforming males belong in sports, but gender non conforming girls have ALWAYS participated on girls sports teams. Boys teams can accept gender non conforming boys, too. That's the solution. Regarding childhood adversity and sexuality, I wonder if it's an evolved community level response to improve the reproductive chances of siblings by reducing the interest in same sex attractive populations in procreative intercourse.
I think there could be an evolutionary advantage in "allowing" an out for those who don't conform to social norms (whatever they were/are for whatever reason) if they might be valuable (better survival) to the group. One stong urge might be to eliminate "those not like us" but by defining particular social roles, genes survive that help the community survive. Agree under poor environmental circumstances with few resources not-reproducing could be beneficial to the group. On an extreme biological level ovulation stops in starvation. There is some technical stuff about altruism i've never really understood but this is how I can make some sense of our societal development and inevitable interaction with biology.
Actually objectively not true. FtM trans men absolutely dominate women’s sports. Because they are men and testosterone does much more. Forcing trans men to compete in womens sports shows how little you care about women’s safety and fairness in sports.
What a great way to look at the LGBT - the questions that follow "who are we?" Are we the type that accepts diversity? The follow up questions are ...Who gets to win this question? If as Christian we believe the Soul is the greatest battle with an eternity to follow - what do we accept? It seems through history the idea of the mass choices sometimes end with catastrophic results - wars - separation . Romans 14 :17 For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 If you serve Christ with this attitude, you will please God, and others will approve of you, too. 19 So then, let us aim for harmony in the church and try to build each other up. So the question remains "who are we?".....
There is a problem with the biblical view on homosexuality: Christianity , as any other religion , is a subjective interpretation of a possible objective god/gods, with subjective morality and rules out of their historical context. The bible is only 3000 years old, humans like us (homo sapiens) exist for 300,000 years. In none of the millions of artefacts, cave paintings, scriptures or any other testimony in the 297,000 years before the bible, a "homosexuality hating, one and only God YHWH” or "Adam and Eve" was ever mentioned. Any archaeological testimony of that version of a god is out of the short "biblical time" when people already invented that story and believed in it. This version of a "homosexuality hating, one and only God YHWH" is an invention only 4000-3000 years old. One day also this religion will disappear, like all other religions, homosexuals, heterosexuals and spiritual people then will still go on existing: ) Have a great day :)
Should sexual orientation or who an individual desires sexually be public knowledge, if so why or why not? Also should doctors require this info, why or why not?
If you're married, it is pretty much public information that must be disclosed; sexual orientation can pretty much be inferred from your marital status. Employers, insurance companies, adoption agencies, foreign embassies, tax collectors, etc. All of them rightfully have access to that information.
"I just know" is absolutely unacceptable in the same conversation as Christian law and dogma. "I just know" a whole lot of things that aren't in the Bible and they mean nothing when it comes to evaluating biblical law. There is no works cited page at the back. There is no peer reviewed journal. What "I know" is irrelevant. That poor mother of the LDS child has no real validity, and is inappropriate for this PhD to bring up.
The contradictions and hipocracy of Christianity are revolting and sickening. The "one lamb" philosophy is rediculous. Insert ANY of the Christian dislikes into the description of the lost lamb and you have to explicitly describe how you are going to "save" them. And THAT is where you must specify how they need to be saved. THAT is where you reveal that Christianity descriminates against human diversity. Christianity explicitly describes what a Christian is. There is no acceptable diversity outside of those bounds. None.
Would be great if it was somehow possible to find a solution to modify one's own preference according to will. How great would it be to be able to decide by ourselves whom we love and not let that decision be left to biological predispositions.
There is a problem with the biblical view on homosexuality: Christianity , as any other religion , is a subjective interpretation of a possible objective god/gods, with subjective morality and rules out of their historical context. The bible is only 3000 years old, humans like us (homo sapiens) exist for 300,000 years. In none of the millions of artefacts, cave paintings, scriptures or any other testimony in the 297,000 years before the bible, a "homosexuality hating, one and only God YHWH” or "Adam and Eve" was ever mentioned. Any archaeological testimony of that version of a god is out of the short "biblical time" when people already invented that story and believed in it. This version of a "homosexuality hating, one and only God YHWH" is an invention only 4000-3000 years old. One day also this religion will disappear, like all other religions, homosexuals, heterosexuals and spiritual people then will still go on existing: ) Have a great week :)
THERE ARE NOT "TWO OPTIONS, youre born that way or scientific" the science shows that childhood trauma and parental influence, peer relationships, sexual molestation are part of the general patterns of same sex attraction with a potential for tempermental elements such as "male sensitivity/creativity"(gender non conforming patterns), or in women (athleticism/competiveness). Dr. Joseph nicolosi is the EXPERT OF OUR DAY. you should recommend all of his videos.
Do you understand that gay people get hit with the shame and the demand - not a call, not an invitation, a demand - to repent pretty much right off the bat? It is not something you need to worry about.
@Daniel Tulsa, repentance only comes into play if you believe there's a magic being in the sky that is so insecure, he demands to be worshipped and obeyed or he'll torture you for eternity. It also only comes into play if you believe that this magic creature created hundreds of billions of stars and has nothing better to do than than get in a tizzy about whether or not consenting adults are touching particular genitals on one little tiny rock circling one of those billions of stars.
There is a problem with the biblical view on homosexuality: Christianity , as any other religion , is a subjective interpretation of a possible objective god/gods, with subjective morality and rules out of their historical context. The bible is only 3000 years old, humans like us (homo sapiens) exist for 300,000 years. In none of the millions of artefacts, cave paintings, scriptures or any other testimony in the 297,000 years before the bible, a "homosexuality hating, one and only God YHWH” or "Adam and Eve" was ever mentioned. Any archaeological testimony of that version of a god is out of the short "biblical time" when people already invented that story and believed in it. This version of a "homosexuality hating, one and only God YHWH" is an invention only 4000-3000 years old. One day also this religion will disappear, like all other religions, homosexuals, heterosexuals and spiritual people then will still go on existing: ) Have a great week :)
@@tavopasquali YT deleted my reply ... how sad I can't even talk openly about my life and sexuality. I'll try again: first I became asexual. Then an objectum. Then lost my gender. Then became bisexual (though still ace and objectum). I am now a erasNB bicaedsexual objectum. The cause was almost certainly trauma, though I haven't had that confirmed by professionals (am trying, though). I started as cishet.
@@tavopasquali I went to the GP a couple of years ago. I was passed to a volunteer phone counselling service, we had a few sessions but they admitted they were unequipped to deal with my issues. I was passed to a volunteer lgbt support service, I had a few sessions but they also said they were not able to discuss my sexuality as it lay outside their expertise and remit. They looked I to it for me and told me there wasn't any support group in the UK that dealt with objectums etc. I then had a mental health assessment with the NHS and they said I would be put on a waiting list for NHS therapy. I'm still on that waiting list. The GP also referred me to the NHS gender specialists, but they said their current waiting list to be seen was 5 years +, and they wanted me to have 2 years counselling before being added to the list. I did some private therapy,but it was very expensive and they aren't able to diagnose or anything, so it wasn't much use. The UK isn't good at mental health support.
@@someonesomeone25 mental health help is expensive everywhere, trust me (at least, the kind of therapy done by good professionals). Hope you can find the guidance you well deserved need 🙂. Greetings from Argentina!
“Born that way” established homosexuals as an oppressed racial minority. This gave civil rights activists a new race to help after equal rights had been achieved for blacks. Once gay marriage was legalized in the US a new oppressed racial minority had to be discovered: trans people.
The ancient people, knew first hand what it means to be a "Belly Worshipper." Over and over scripture, as far back or recent as you want to go with manuscripts, repeats the same message. Man is a spirit being housed in fallen skin. Yahweh aka Adonai, has no shadow of change. Man is told to focus on spirit and not belly. Arguments will come and go. As long as man relies on the voice of the belly to make eternal choices, he will loose everything he strives so hard to gather. The belly can not be trusted. It has a split tongue and it is in enmity with the Creator and Sustainer of all things. Eph6 - Put on the helmet of salvation. "Don't loose your head/ never forget who you are." Get the heart transplant. Its not an option, its a mandate. You have been given the power to choose life or death. Choose wisely. Tomorrow is promised to no man.
according to Doctor Joseph Nicolosi same sex attraction starts in the gender identity phase 2 years old the male learns dissasociation as a pattern from overstimulation from an emotionally or physically intrusive/inconsistent/detached or narcissistic mother and then reinforced later by an absent, hostile, critical or distant father who fails to draw the boy out of his dissasociative pattern. since the mother relationship engulfs the burgening boy he has difficulty making the shift to masculine identification and then later peer relationships can furthur complicate and reinforce this same sex wound as the boy enters puberty and sexual hunger to bond with men/peers becomes sexualized.. Shame and ungrieved grief are the work Nicololsi does with men to heal the roots of their parental wounding pattern. Learning to stay in the assertive state and not dissasociate or wildrawl are the work of healing the masculine gender wound. with that said the "patterns" are common but each individual person has their own individual wound and individual experences and path to healing. as with all things sexual its complicated and nuanced to the individual.
Biology, not society, dictates whether we are gender-typical or atypical, the extent to which we identify as the sex we were born as, and the partners we are sexually attracted to. Attraction is the most accurate representation of a person’s true sexual orientation because identity and behavior can be context-dependent. People may change the identity labels they use and who they have sex with but sexual attractions are stable over time. Sexual orientation is a pattern of desire, not of behaviour or sexual acts per se. It is not a simple act of will or a performance. We fall in love with men or women because we have gay, straight, or bisexual orientations and not because of choice. When sperm fertilizes an egg at conception, the baby will be either female or male. This biology will influence hormonal exposure in the womb, as well as the child’s resulting gender identity. At about seven weeks, if the embryo is male, the testes will begin to secrete testosterone, masculinizing the brain. If the embryo is female, this process does not occur. This exposure to testosteron has a powerful effect on the ways in which male and female brains grow before the brain has finished developing in the utero. Testosterone exposure alters the programming of neural stem cells responsible for brain growth, leading to differences between the sexes. Gay men have had a lower exposer than your average male and lesbian women have had a higher exposure a than the average woman. Neuroscientific studies have shown that the brains of lesbians are partially masculinized and gay mens partially feminized. Patterns of brain organisation appear similar between gay men and heterosexual women and between lesbian women and heterosexual men. Gay men appear, on average, more “female typical” in brain pattern responses and lesbian women are more “male typical”. Differences in brain organisation mean differences in psychology and study after study show differences in cognition between heterosexual and gay people. Gay mens brains are also structured like those of heterosexual females and lesbians structured similar to heterosexual mens.Thus gay differences are not just about who you fancy. They are reflected in our psychology and the ways we relate to others. The influence of biology runs throughout our sexual and gendered lives. Researchers across a a variety of animal models changing the amount of testosterone that an animal is exposed to changes whether they are sexually interested in same-sex or opposite-sex mates qnd also whether they would be more female typical or male typical .Gender is dictated by prenatal hormone exposure, as opposed to coercive gender norms imposed upon infants the minute they exit the womb. Gendered interests are predicted by testosterone exposure in utero. Higher levels are associated with male-typical interests and behaviours, regardless of whether the baby is male or female. These include a preference for mechanically interesting objects and systemizing occupations in adulthood. Lower levels are associated with a preference for people orientated activities and occupations. stemming from evolutionary roots. Women. who are tasked with the role of bearing children, evolved to be more sociable, empathic, and people focused, while men, as hunter-gatherers, were rewarded for strong visuopatial skills and ability to build and use tools. That's why science, technology, engerneering and mathematics fields tend to be dominated by men. Boys, are typically exposed to higher levels of testosterone in the womb, and tend to gravitate toward mechanical toys and ,mechanically interesting activities, like playing with wheeled toys, trucks and related occupations in adulthood. and being sexually attracted to women upon reaching puberty. A boy who is exposed to lower levels of is more likely to be female-typical when he is born, gravitating toward toys and activities that girls prefer, since girls are also generally exposed to lower levels of testosterone. He will also be sexually attracted to men in adulthood. Testosterone is needed to “masculinize” a prenatal brain; if that doesn’t happen, the child will grow up to desire men. The same can be said for girls who experience high levels of testosterone exposure. As shown in girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia, even if their parents give them more encouragement for playing with dolls, they will still prefer toys typical to boys because greater exposure to testosterone in utero is associated with male-typical interests. They are also more likely to be attracted to women. Rough-and-tumble play, which is behavior typically seen in little boys, is less common in gay men and more common in lesbian women, due to lesser and greater masculinization of the brain, respectively. Childhood gender nonconformity refers to sex-atypical behaviours, interests, hobbies, activity levels, and play partner preferences before the age of 12. 75% of boys demonstrating CGN will grow up to be gay or bisexual due to the prenatal environment and the extent to which hormones masculinized the developing brain. Brains that are exposed to lower levels of testosterone, conversely, are more efficient at empathizing. Girls show a preference for socially engaging activities and occupations. This difference between children regarding preferences for people versus things is detectable within the first two days of life. Baby girls preferred looking at their caregivers’ faces and baby boys preferred looking at mechanical mobiles. Babies as young as nine months old have shown gender differences in the toys they choose. Again, girls preferred playing with dolls and boys gravitated toward trucks and cars. This was before they’re able to even recognize gender as a concept, something that generally happens at around eighteen months to two years old. We also see the same behavior in our primate relatives, including vervet and rhesus monkeys. Despite lacking socialization from their caregivers or other monkeys, young female monkeys will choose dolls, and male monkeys will choose wheeled toys, similar to what is observed in human babies. No one is 100% male typical or 100% female typical, but homosexual people are generally more atypical than heterosexual people. Socialization theories, which were dominant in the 1900s, favored the idea that children were born "undifferentiated" and were socialized into gender roles and sexual orientation. This led to medical experiments in which newborn and infant boys were surgically reassigned into girls after accidents such as botched circumcisions. These males were then reared and raised as females without telling the boys, which, contrary to expectations, did not make them feminine nor attracted to men. All published cases providing sexual orientation grew up to be strongly attracted to women. All were more male typical in the interests and behaviours from a young age and most choose to identify back as male on finding out in adulthood their birth sex. The failure of these experiments demonstrate that socialization effects do not induce feminine type behavior in males, nor make them attracted to men, and that the organizational effects of hormones on the fetal brain prior to birth have permanent effects. These are indicative of 'nature', not nurture, at least with regards to male sexual orientation. Socialization shapes the extent to which our gender is expressed or suppressed, but it doesn’t dictate whether someone will be masculine or feminine, or whether she or he will be gender-conforming or gender-atypical. Whether a trait is deemed “masculine” or “feminine” is culturally defined, but whether a person gravitates toward traits that are considered masculine or feminine is driven by biology. For someone who is gender-nonconforming this is similarly influenced by biology, but the extent to which they will feel comfortable expressing their gender nonconformity (through, say, the way they dress or carry themselves) will be influenced by social factors, like parental upbringing and cultural messaging. Societal influence cannot, however, override biology. No matter how much parents or teachers or peers frown upon gender nonconformity (or gender conformity, for that matter), a person will gravitate toward the same interests and behaviors, but he or she may feel more inclined to hide that part of themselves. social influences can affect the extent to which a person’s interests and behaviors are expressed, but they cannot override the underlying preferences themselves. No matter how much freedom a child is given, most will, time and time again, pick out gender-typical toys to play with and exhibit personality traits typical of their sex. If you try to force kids to play with opposite-sex toys when they prefer toys typical to their sex, they will be bored, or alternatively, will get creative. I’ve had parents tell me their boys, upon being given dolls, will swing them around mercilessly by the hair as though they are a weapon. Girls will arrange toy trucks into a family and tuck them into bed. A girl or boy who is gender-atypical will turn away from these cues if they're truly not interested. For gender-nonconforming kids who are bombarded with societal messaging about masculinity or femininity through movies and online games, they will say, “I don’t want to watch this,” or “I don’t want to play this,” and “Where are the ones for boys?” or "where are the ones for girls?" Gender-nonconforming girls and boys don’t need the world to tell them to be nonconforming; they will already be that way, from the moment they are born.
I don't think she made any valid points. Marriage by definition is between a man and a woman. Loving someone from a different culture or race is not the same as having same sex attraction. She is very unconvincing.
ENVY VS. IDENTIFICATION with same gender is a very important issue at the root of same sex attraction. im glad you brought up this point. sexual attraction grows in mystery the more you disidentify and disengage with your gender the more mystery builds in sexual developement through puberty CONVERSELY "familiarity breeds contempt". any child needs support from parents, and community to gain comfort with their same gendered community. the abandonment and betrayal of children is a product of the degradation of our sociological degradation and personal gender roles and boundaries in the nuclear family.
I am a gay man and I was born gay. My mother knew something was different about me dating back to young childhood. And every gay guy I know says they were born gay. It can't be helped. I know this flies in the face of you are saying, but this my experience.
It's the same for all of us.We are born naturally fabulous and it is all good.These people are idiots
Its all fine, its a known problem to get hard data with psychology in the first place, the analogy on personality study was aptly noted from a scientific standpoint. With no offense meant; Even the observing Doctor is not excluded from influencing said dataset. One would have to somehow create a double blind study (Where the observer does _not yet_ know the groups self-perceived orientation) for a "pure" result, which is tricky to set up alone. Or maybe I am overthinking this and there are better methods, who knows.
That, and there are multiple factors involved, environmental, hormonal, where genetics is just one of them.
I my self have been wondering if there are any differences between how the sexes are expressed, Scientists still know fairly little on this subject.
There's a book related to this from the National Library of Medicine: 4) Sex Affects Behavior and Perception ( www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222297/ ) The Future of Research on Biological Sex Differences: Challenges and Opportunities ( www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222296/ )
Gay rights activists fought for the “born this way” narrative. because it came with greater social acceptance-and not only that, it is scientifically correct. A bizarre strain of thinking has sprung forth. Due to the trendiness in conceptualizing gender and sex as spectra, the concept of “sexual fluidity” claims that anyone can be gay, and that human sexuality is in actuality free-floating and whatever you want it to be.fluidity, if sexual orientation is flexible and changeable rather than rigid and fixed, doesn’t this also mean that anyone can be made to be straight? hows that not an argument for conversion therapy?
More people are identifying sexuality as part of the community not out of a true sexual identity, but because it is trendy to do so, or because they believe sexuality is “fluid.” This undermines biological explanations for sexual orientation, which has been a disturbingly growing phenomenon. Within progressive circles, many otherwise ordinary, straight people have taken ownership of the word, because identifying as “queer” grants them the ability to claim sexual minority status.
In my opinion, for straight men, identifying as “queer” can be a tool signaling their progressivism so that feminist women will date them. straight, female-typical women identify as part of an oppressed class because of intersectionality. Mainstream feminism, however, has encouraged an entirely new, malignant application, with groups who would otherwise be considered to have privilege clamoring for minority status so that their opinions are given more weight. Seizing one, or a handful, of the gender nonbinary identity labels allows a person to join the LGBT+ movement tangentially, without question, even when there is nothing L, G, B, or T about them. This ideological 180-degree change is presumably an attempt to widen social acceptance for people who are gay and bisexual, which I am all for. But the implications of doing so will only succeed at unraveling the very rights that gay activists struggled to obtain not too long ago.
@@kmarie7051 Very good comment!
no one is born gay. and your sexuality didn't develop until later.
Appreciated the respectful discussion, and openness to new ideas. Not typical skillsets of Christians these days. Thank you!
We (as Seventh Day Adventists, christians etc) need to learn this more then ever.
Great discussion here! Here’s another beautiful podcast with LDS parents of an intersex man. I love the dialog.
enlightening ... thank you 💌
Love this so much! Incredible conversation!
Thanks! Excellent discourse! Thank you Lysa for doing this research!
Refreshing to encounter a Christian 'Christian' these days. Good interview.
Thank you so much for this interview. It was excellent!
This was a fascinating discussion. I think you're both wrong with the sports thing, though. Even a single male participating in a female event can completely undermine the fairness and legitimacy of women's sports, not to mention what it does to the morale or comfort or civil rights of participants. I agree gender non conforming males belong in sports, but gender non conforming girls have ALWAYS participated on girls sports teams. Boys teams can accept gender non conforming boys, too. That's the solution.
Regarding childhood adversity and sexuality, I wonder if it's an evolved community level response to improve the reproductive chances of siblings by reducing the interest in same sex attractive populations in procreative intercourse.
I think there could be an evolutionary advantage in "allowing" an out for those who don't conform to social norms (whatever they were/are for whatever reason) if they might be valuable (better survival) to the group. One stong urge might be to eliminate "those not like us" but by defining particular social roles, genes survive that help the community survive. Agree under poor environmental circumstances with few resources not-reproducing could be beneficial to the group. On an extreme biological level ovulation stops in starvation. There is some technical stuff about altruism i've never really understood but this is how I can make some sense of our societal development and inevitable interaction with biology.
Why do you think females are inferior?
Actually objectively not true. FtM trans men absolutely dominate women’s sports. Because they are men and testosterone does much more. Forcing trans men to compete in womens sports shows how little you care about women’s safety and fairness in sports.
Thank you Drs. Diamond and Sprinkle! Great discussion!
What a great way to look at the LGBT - the questions that follow "who are we?" Are we the type that accepts diversity? The follow up questions are ...Who gets to win this question? If as Christian we believe the Soul is the greatest battle with an eternity to follow - what do we accept? It seems through history the idea of the mass choices sometimes end with catastrophic results - wars - separation .
Romans 14 :17 For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 If you serve Christ with this attitude, you will please God, and others will approve of you, too. 19 So then, let us aim for harmony in the church and try to build each other up.
So the question remains "who are we?".....
There is a problem with the biblical view on homosexuality:
Christianity , as any other religion , is a subjective interpretation of a possible objective god/gods, with subjective morality and rules out of their historical context.
The bible is only 3000 years old, humans like us (homo sapiens) exist for 300,000 years.
In none of the millions of artefacts, cave paintings, scriptures or any other testimony in the 297,000 years before the bible, a "homosexuality hating, one and only God YHWH” or "Adam and Eve" was ever mentioned.
Any archaeological testimony of that version of a god is out of the short "biblical time" when people already invented that story and believed in it.
This version of a "homosexuality hating, one and only God YHWH" is an invention only 4000-3000 years old.
One day also this religion will disappear, like all other religions, homosexuals, heterosexuals and spiritual people then will still go on existing: )
Have a great day :)
A great capacity to Love is a blessing! Love, Sex?, Labels? The Rules? Laws? ❤❤❤ Why be restricted?
Should sexual orientation or who an individual desires sexually be public knowledge, if so why or why not? Also should doctors require this info, why or why not?
If you're married, it is pretty much public information that must be disclosed; sexual orientation can pretty much be inferred from your marital status. Employers, insurance companies, adoption agencies, foreign embassies, tax collectors, etc. All of them rightfully have access to that information.
"I just know" is absolutely unacceptable in the same conversation as Christian law and dogma. "I just know" a whole lot of things that aren't in the Bible and they mean nothing when it comes to evaluating biblical law. There is no works cited page at the back. There is no peer reviewed journal. What "I know" is irrelevant. That poor mother of the LDS child has no real validity, and is inappropriate for this PhD to bring up.
The contradictions and hipocracy of Christianity are revolting and sickening. The "one lamb" philosophy is rediculous. Insert ANY of the Christian dislikes into the description of the lost lamb and you have to explicitly describe how you are going to "save" them. And THAT is where you must specify how they need to be saved. THAT is where you reveal that Christianity descriminates against human diversity. Christianity explicitly describes what a Christian is. There is no acceptable diversity outside of those bounds. None.
So? Yes, you are correct. Jesus was offensive and Christians who truly follow him are too! What are you really trying to say?
Really great discussion!
great interview
Would be great if it was somehow possible to find a solution to modify one's own preference according to will. How great would it be to be able to decide by ourselves whom we love and not let that decision be left to biological predispositions.
Jesus loved to death. And he still did not condone certain behaviors.
He didn't water down. He changed lives for the better.
There is a problem with the biblical view on homosexuality:
Christianity , as any other religion , is a subjective interpretation of a possible objective god/gods, with subjective morality and rules out of their historical context.
The bible is only 3000 years old, humans like us (homo sapiens) exist for 300,000 years.
In none of the millions of artefacts, cave paintings, scriptures or any other testimony in the 297,000 years before the bible, a "homosexuality hating, one and only God YHWH” or "Adam and Eve" was ever mentioned.
Any archaeological testimony of that version of a god is out of the short "biblical time" when people already invented that story and believed in it.
This version of a "homosexuality hating, one and only God YHWH" is an invention only 4000-3000 years old.
One day also this religion will disappear, like all other religions, homosexuals, heterosexuals and spiritual people then will still go on existing: )
Have a great week :)
He said nothing in regards to homosexuality, and yet you imagine that he did? It sounds like you are in the wrong to be hung up on judging others.
THERE ARE NOT "TWO OPTIONS, youre born that way or scientific" the science shows that childhood trauma and parental influence, peer relationships, sexual molestation are part of the general patterns of same sex attraction with a potential for tempermental elements such as "male sensitivity/creativity"(gender non conforming patterns), or in women (athleticism/competiveness). Dr. Joseph nicolosi is the EXPERT OF OUR DAY. you should recommend all of his videos.
At what point does repentance enter the conversation? Or do we only affirm their behavior 🤔
Do you understand that gay people get hit with the shame and the demand - not a call, not an invitation, a demand - to repent pretty much right off the bat? It is not something you need to worry about.
@Daniel Tulsa, repentance only comes into play if you believe there's a magic being in the sky that is so insecure, he demands to be worshipped and obeyed or he'll torture you for eternity. It also only comes into play if you believe that this magic creature created hundreds of billions of stars and has nothing better to do than than get in a tizzy about whether or not consenting adults are touching particular genitals on one little tiny rock circling one of those billions of stars.
There is a problem with the biblical view on homosexuality:
Christianity , as any other religion , is a subjective interpretation of a possible objective god/gods, with subjective morality and rules out of their historical context.
The bible is only 3000 years old, humans like us (homo sapiens) exist for 300,000 years.
In none of the millions of artefacts, cave paintings, scriptures or any other testimony in the 297,000 years before the bible, a "homosexuality hating, one and only God YHWH” or "Adam and Eve" was ever mentioned.
Any archaeological testimony of that version of a god is out of the short "biblical time" when people already invented that story and believed in it.
This version of a "homosexuality hating, one and only God YHWH" is an invention only 4000-3000 years old.
One day also this religion will disappear, like all other religions, homosexuals, heterosexuals and spiritual people then will still go on existing: )
Have a great week :)
My sexuality changed in my 40s. Didn't see it coming.
How did it change? If you don't mind my asking
@@tavopasquali YT deleted my reply ... how sad I can't even talk openly about my life and sexuality.
I'll try again: first I became asexual. Then an objectum. Then lost my gender. Then became bisexual (though still ace and objectum). I am now a erasNB bicaedsexual objectum. The cause was almost certainly trauma, though I haven't had that confirmed by professionals (am trying, though). I started as cishet.
@@someonesomeone25 thanks for your answer! As regards the trauma you mentioned, are you now discussing it in therapy?
@@tavopasquali I went to the GP a couple of years ago. I was passed to a volunteer phone counselling service, we had a few sessions but they admitted they were unequipped to deal with my issues. I was passed to a volunteer lgbt support service, I had a few sessions but they also said they were not able to discuss my sexuality as it lay outside their expertise and remit. They looked I to it for me and told me there wasn't any support group in the UK that dealt with objectums etc. I then had a mental health assessment with the NHS and they said I would be put on a waiting list for NHS therapy. I'm still on that waiting list. The GP also referred me to the NHS gender specialists, but they said their current waiting list to be seen was 5 years +, and they wanted me to have 2 years counselling before being added to the list. I did some private therapy,but it was very expensive and they aren't able to diagnose or anything, so it wasn't much use. The UK isn't good at mental health support.
@@someonesomeone25 mental health help is expensive everywhere, trust me (at least, the kind of therapy done by good professionals). Hope you can find the guidance you well deserved need 🙂. Greetings from Argentina!
“Born that way” established homosexuals as an oppressed racial minority. This gave civil rights activists a new race to help after equal rights had been achieved for blacks. Once gay marriage was legalized in the US a new oppressed racial minority had to be discovered: trans people.
What does sexuality have to do with race you clown?
@@waymilky442 Today any bigotry is called racism. If you don’t like Mexicans you’re a racist. What race is “Mexican”.
@@JacobStein1960 Any bigotry is not racism. Mexicans are nearly all mixed people and are racialized.
@@waymilky442 That’s how the word is used now.
@@JacobStein1960 No it's not.
Very interesting....though statistically completely non-relevant !!! Totally 😅😅😅
The ancient people, knew first hand what it means to be a "Belly Worshipper." Over and over scripture, as far back or recent as you want to go with manuscripts, repeats the same message. Man is a spirit being housed in fallen skin. Yahweh aka Adonai, has no shadow of change. Man is told to focus on spirit and not belly. Arguments will come and go. As long as man relies on the voice of the belly to make eternal choices, he will loose everything he strives so hard to gather. The belly can not be trusted. It has a split tongue and it is in enmity with the Creator and Sustainer of all things. Eph6 - Put on the helmet of salvation. "Don't loose your head/ never forget who you are." Get the heart transplant. Its not an option, its a mandate. You have been given the power to choose life or death. Choose wisely. Tomorrow is promised to no man.
according to Doctor Joseph Nicolosi same sex attraction starts in the gender identity phase 2 years old the male learns dissasociation as a pattern from overstimulation from an emotionally or physically intrusive/inconsistent/detached or narcissistic mother and then reinforced later by an absent, hostile, critical or distant father who fails to draw the boy out of his dissasociative pattern. since the mother relationship engulfs the burgening boy he has difficulty making the shift to masculine identification and then later peer relationships can furthur complicate and reinforce this same sex wound as the boy enters puberty and sexual hunger to bond with men/peers becomes sexualized.. Shame and ungrieved grief are the work Nicololsi does with men to heal the roots of their parental wounding pattern. Learning to stay in the assertive state and not dissasociate or wildrawl are the work of healing the masculine gender wound. with that said the "patterns" are common but each individual person has their own individual wound and individual experences and path to healing. as with all things sexual its complicated and nuanced to the individual.
Nicolosi is a dangerous fraud.
Biology, not society, dictates whether we are gender-typical or atypical, the extent to which we identify as the sex we were born as, and the partners we are sexually attracted to. Attraction is the most accurate representation of a person’s true sexual orientation because identity and behavior can be context-dependent. People may change the identity labels they use and who they have sex with but sexual attractions are stable over time. Sexual orientation is a pattern of desire, not of behaviour or sexual acts per se. It is not a simple act of will or a performance. We fall in love with men or women because we have gay, straight, or bisexual orientations and not because of choice.
When sperm fertilizes an egg at conception, the baby will be either female or male. This biology will influence hormonal exposure in the womb, as well as the child’s resulting gender identity. At about seven weeks, if the embryo is male, the testes will begin to secrete testosterone, masculinizing the brain. If the embryo is female, this process does not occur. This exposure to testosteron has a powerful effect on the ways in which male and female brains grow before the brain has finished developing in the utero. Testosterone exposure alters the programming of neural stem cells responsible for brain growth, leading to differences between the sexes.
Gay men have had a lower exposer than your average male and lesbian women have had a higher exposure a than the average woman. Neuroscientific studies have shown that the brains of lesbians are partially masculinized and gay mens partially feminized. Patterns of brain organisation appear similar between gay men and heterosexual women and between lesbian women and heterosexual men. Gay men appear, on average, more “female typical” in brain pattern responses and lesbian women are more “male typical”. Differences in brain organisation mean differences in psychology and study after study show differences in cognition between heterosexual and gay people. Gay mens brains are also structured like those of heterosexual females and lesbians structured similar to heterosexual mens.Thus gay differences are not just about who you fancy. They are reflected in our psychology and the ways we relate to others. The influence of biology runs throughout our sexual and gendered lives.
Researchers across a a variety of animal models changing the amount of testosterone that an animal is exposed to changes whether they are sexually interested in same-sex or opposite-sex mates qnd also whether they would be more female typical or male typical .Gender is dictated by prenatal hormone exposure, as opposed to coercive gender norms imposed upon infants the minute they exit the womb. Gendered interests are predicted by testosterone exposure in utero. Higher levels are associated with male-typical interests and behaviours, regardless of whether the baby is male or female. These include a preference for mechanically interesting objects and systemizing occupations in adulthood. Lower levels are associated with a preference for people orientated activities and occupations. stemming from evolutionary roots. Women. who are tasked with the role of bearing children, evolved to be more sociable, empathic, and people focused, while men, as hunter-gatherers, were rewarded for strong visuopatial skills and ability to build and use tools. That's why science, technology, engerneering and mathematics fields tend to be dominated by men.
Boys, are typically exposed to higher levels of testosterone in the womb, and tend to gravitate toward mechanical toys and ,mechanically interesting activities, like playing with wheeled toys, trucks and related occupations in adulthood. and being sexually attracted to women upon reaching puberty. A boy who is exposed to lower levels of is more likely to be female-typical when he is born, gravitating toward toys and activities that girls prefer, since girls are also generally exposed to lower levels of testosterone. He will also be sexually attracted to men in adulthood. Testosterone is needed to “masculinize” a prenatal brain; if that doesn’t happen, the child will grow up to desire men.
The same can be said for girls who experience high levels of testosterone exposure. As shown in girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia, even if their parents give them more encouragement for playing with dolls, they will still prefer toys typical to boys because greater exposure to testosterone in utero is associated with male-typical interests. They are also more likely to be attracted to women. Rough-and-tumble play, which is behavior typically seen in little boys, is less common in gay men and more common in lesbian women, due to lesser and greater masculinization of the brain, respectively. Childhood gender nonconformity refers to sex-atypical behaviours, interests, hobbies, activity levels, and play partner preferences before the age of 12. 75% of boys demonstrating CGN will grow up to be gay or bisexual due to the prenatal environment and the extent to which hormones masculinized the developing brain.
Brains that are exposed to lower levels of testosterone, conversely, are more efficient at empathizing. Girls show a preference for socially engaging activities and occupations. This difference between children regarding preferences for people versus things is detectable within the first two days of life. Baby girls preferred looking at their caregivers’ faces and baby boys preferred looking at mechanical mobiles. Babies as young as nine months old have shown gender differences in the toys they choose. Again, girls preferred playing with dolls and boys gravitated toward trucks and cars. This was before they’re able to even recognize gender as a concept, something that generally happens at around eighteen months to two years old. We also see the same behavior in our primate relatives, including vervet and rhesus monkeys. Despite lacking socialization from their caregivers or other monkeys, young female monkeys will choose dolls, and male monkeys will choose wheeled toys, similar to what is observed in human babies.
No one is 100% male typical or 100% female typical, but homosexual people are generally more atypical than heterosexual people.
Socialization theories, which were dominant in the 1900s, favored the idea that children were born "undifferentiated" and were socialized into gender roles and sexual orientation. This led to medical experiments in which newborn and infant boys were surgically reassigned into girls after accidents such as botched circumcisions. These males were then reared and raised as females without telling the boys, which, contrary to expectations, did not make them feminine nor attracted to men. All published cases providing sexual orientation grew up to be strongly attracted to women. All were more male typical in the interests and behaviours from a young age and most choose to identify back as male on finding out in adulthood their birth sex. The failure of these experiments demonstrate that socialization effects do not induce feminine type behavior in males, nor make them attracted to men, and that the organizational effects of hormones on the fetal brain prior to birth have permanent effects. These are indicative of 'nature', not nurture, at least with regards to male sexual orientation.
Socialization shapes the extent to which our gender is expressed or suppressed, but it doesn’t dictate whether someone will be masculine or feminine, or whether she or he will be gender-conforming or gender-atypical. Whether a trait is deemed “masculine” or “feminine” is culturally defined, but whether a person gravitates toward traits that are considered masculine or feminine is driven by biology. For someone who is gender-nonconforming this is similarly influenced by biology, but the extent to which they will feel comfortable expressing their gender nonconformity (through, say, the way they dress or carry themselves) will be influenced by social factors, like parental upbringing and cultural messaging. Societal influence cannot, however, override biology. No matter how much parents or teachers or peers frown upon gender nonconformity (or gender conformity, for that matter), a person will gravitate toward the same interests and behaviors, but he or she may feel more inclined to hide that part of themselves. social influences can affect the extent to which a person’s interests and behaviors are expressed, but they cannot override the underlying preferences themselves.
No matter how much freedom a child is given, most will, time and time again, pick out gender-typical toys to play with and exhibit personality traits typical of their sex. If you try to force kids to play with opposite-sex toys when they prefer toys typical to their sex, they will be bored, or alternatively, will get creative. I’ve had parents tell me their boys, upon being given dolls, will swing them around mercilessly by the hair as though they are a weapon. Girls will arrange toy trucks into a family and tuck them into bed. A girl or boy who is gender-atypical will turn away from these cues if they're truly not interested. For gender-nonconforming kids who are bombarded with societal messaging about masculinity or femininity through movies and online games, they will say, “I don’t want to watch this,” or “I don’t want to play this,” and “Where are the ones for boys?” or "where are the ones for girls?" Gender-nonconforming girls and boys don’t need the world to tell them to be nonconforming; they will already be that way, from the moment they are born.
I don't think she made any valid points. Marriage by definition is between a man and a woman. Loving someone from a different culture or race is not the same as having same sex attraction. She is very unconvincing.
ENVY VS. IDENTIFICATION with same gender is a very important issue at the root of same sex attraction. im glad you brought up this point. sexual attraction grows in mystery the more you disidentify and disengage with your gender the more mystery builds in sexual developement through puberty CONVERSELY "familiarity breeds contempt". any child needs support from parents, and community to gain comfort with their same gendered community. the abandonment and betrayal of children is a product of the degradation of our sociological degradation and personal gender roles and boundaries in the nuclear family.
Wow if u want to change couldn’t have been born this way