Sex, Gender, and the Anthropology of Trans* Identities: Dr. Abigail Favale
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Abigail and I talk about all things related to gender, postmodern feminism, and the ontology of trans* identities. We discuss the meaning of sex and gender, the relationship between body and soul, the possibility of an intersex condition of the brain, whether brains are male and female, intersex conditions, gender stereotypes, and how all of this relates to the anthropological understanding of trans* experiences.
Dr. Favale is dean of the College of Humanities and Associate Professor of English at George Fox University. She graduated from George Fox University with a philosophy degree in 2005, and went on to complete her doctorate at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland, where her dissertation was granted the Samuel Rutherford Prize for the most distinguished thesis in English literature.
Dr. Favale is an active writer in multiple genres. Her literary criticism has appeared in various academic journals and essay collections. In 2017, she was awarded the J.F. Powers Prize for Short Fiction. A lifelong Christian, Favale entered the Catholic Church in 2014, and her memoir about this transition, Into the Deep, is forthcoming from Cascade Books.
Dr. Favale’s first book, Irigaray, Incarnation and Contemporary Women’s Fiction(Bloomsbury 2013), examines religious themes in the work of contemporary women novelists. This book was awarded the 2014 Feminist and Women's Studies Association Book Prize.
Abigail has also written short fiction for several literary journals, such as The Potomac Review, Talking River Review, zaum and Melusine. In 2013, Abigail was a regular online contributor on gender-related issues for The Atlantic Monthly; her essays have also appeared in First Things, PopMatters and Geez Magazine.
#abigailfavale #georgefox #gender #transgender #anthropology #ontologyoftrans #prestonsprinkle
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How is someone with a PhD in English Literature qualified to discuss physical anthropology?
Abigail has a bachelor's degree in philosophy from George Fox University, as well as a master's degree in Women, Writing and Gender and a Ph.D. in English Literature from the University of St. Andrews in Scotland.
Hey, Preston
This is the 3rd video I have experienced this where your whole intro has no sound and then once your guest is on the sound is fine. For this particular video, no sound for 2:39. This is an awesome interview!!
Agreed
I'm Exvangelical and transgender. I enjoy your channel because I think you are the best of the tradition I left behind. I was more disappointed with this video though. I think you both have hearts of compassion for people like me, and I appreciate that. But still, when Abigail made her theological points, it felt like she was using theology to dismiss me and people like me. It felt like, "I have no framework from which to understand you, therefore I can't accept you." I kept waiting for the pastoral side to come in but I felt like it never came. I tried living socially as a man and I was MISERABLE. So all I hear in a video like this is that Christianity, Roman Catholicism in this case, has nothing for me, sorry. Nothing about this conversation felt life-giving.
Was theology used to dismiss you or to articulate a point or something else?
@@chad6252 It's been seven months since I left the comment. I'd have to go back and rewatch. Even still, I don't quite follow the question. Are you asking me to clarify which theological points specifically?
@@ryanthomasjones Yes, what points?
@@chad6252 My initial comment was more that she was approaching people like me from a theological perspective exclusively and not a pastoral perspective. And the reason why that felt so jarring is that Preston is generally so sensitive to the pastoral issues around LGBTQ issues in his other videos.
I guess what I was trying to say is that this video felt to me like, "Sorry, truth is truth, so suck it up, buttercup." Meanwhile, a high percentage of us (myself included) are pushed to attempt suicide before finally breaking with those conservative traditions that once meant so much to us.
@@ryanthomasjones they are influenced strongly by TERF ideology without being what is regularly called TERFs. Religion normally doesn't have such strong bioessentialism in it. If I were there, I first had asked them on what they would nail "being male" or "being female" not on species level like they did where such arbitrary and not particularly explainable phrases like "reproduction capacity" may work fairly but on a random individual with mixed sex characteristics where they don't work at all.
This is a great video. For too long I’ve been unsatisfied with the way in which Christians have arrived to conclusions about gender (mostly dissatisfied with fundamentalist hermeneutics), Dr. Favale is a refreshing voice that is versed in contemporary canon and is committed to thinking through the issue with philosophical coherence.
Trans people are awesome
From a trans perspective, the distinction between gender and sex isn't that difficult. When you're born, a doctor examines your genitals and determines whether they are unambiguously male or female. Based on that assignment, your gender is assumed to correspond to your genital sex. From that point on, you are raised and socialized as either a boy or a girl, consistent with your male or female genitals. Over time, however, trans people realize that their personal sense of gender identity differs from the gender they were assigned at birth. It may be challenging for them to put this difference into words, but they have no doubt it is real.
Please have this guest on again. In fact, a training would be so helpful. Thank you to both of you.
Take a concept, build up a myth around it, teach the myth as true and literally correspondent to reality, create a special language about the myth that only the privileged have access to, call the myth knowledge, treat those who master the myth and the language as knowledgeable and then call everyone else uneducated, exclude or maybe punish the dissidents… well on the way to building a religion.
I am trans. I think this was a great conversation.
I grew up evangelical pentecostal. When I was little I got conversion therapy for acting like a girl and being confundused.
Personally I don't remember being confused. I remember not caring until torture started, and thinking. I can't stop being what I am not, and I was getting all this therapy for being a girl. So there ya go. Strangers gendered me she all the time so idk. Eventually my parents shaved me head and made me dress stupid to stop that.
It wasn't even what I played with. I played with my brothers toys. It was my aura. How I played. How I talked. How I looked. Just naturally.
I transitioned to fit in society using my natural personality.
I don't personally think I am female. No ontological claim. I know what I am and what I can't do. Hence the distress. No baby for me.
However, I transition to womanhood.
Some types of trans are different. Like the non binary gender queer.
I think I can still be a Christian and I think the church could do better.
@Steve M People stay in abusive relationships or tolerate abuse for a variety of reasons. Often we just don't realize it might be different. Or we believe we deserve it.
@Steve M Yeah unfortunately I hear transphobia both from God don't make mistakes types and science is xx or xy types. I find that both types aren't super informed about the situation from. Even their own perspective
Well said. Thanks for this.
@@jeng3609 thank you
There's a lot more ways to grow your Spirituality than the old, rigid Christianity. There's even more ways to expand Christianity than the ways its been taught to us.
Can you share the name of Dr. Favale's essay that you allude to @11:35?
Starts with no sound, just scroll ahead 60 seconds and your good.
I am male-to-female transexual. I was raised religious, but I am not at this time. My question is, if there is a soul separate from the body, then could it be that one's soul is in conflict with one's body? e.g. a sense that one's body should have been the opposite sex? It seems that if we acknowledge the existence of a separate soul, then we should also acknowledge the possibility of this conflict. It seems to me that if God exists, and we are made in God's image, then God intended for trans people to exist.
Agree. But some religious people see gender dysphoria or every other possible deep inner will to transition as "personal predisposition towards a sin", not as part of your personality, and the transition act, may it be physically or socially or both, as "the sin itself" you had to resist whatever it takes, same as with homosexuality. Sometimes they even say it were not induced by God`s own will but by "the Devil" to take God outside, ridiculous.
This was an incredible conversation between two very smart, empathetic people. I appreciated the close understanding of words, and agree so much with what she was saying... As in my church we have spent 46 weeks on the power of the spoken word. That being said, the whole time listning i was wondering the direction the conversation was going... whats the end game. I feel as though in the end - two people just conversing - and/or mental exercise ... Respect the ideas of the christian ideology - of the importance of "gender" and "body" and the importance of the combination of both. I also really appreciate the challenge with the labels and words we are trying not only to represent but somehow unified definitions....
I wonder if the goal of her study is "truth" for its own sake... i find it more a philosophical experiment on the same as - Prove a soul.... this has been presented on the importance of the Body "jesus came in one - died in one - raised in one" well the scripture also says God knew you before you were born.... did he see you as a child (body) - adult (body) - and old (body)?
As i continue my walk in my faith the one challenge i face the most is this idea that we (the church) cant learn anything more... there is no scripture speaking to this... or old scripture, suggest, demands, etc - so thats the only way it can be... Is it not possible that God has created a "trans" person with an understanding that can not be defined by man? Isnt that "miracle" or those blessed with the gift of "prophesy" ? Is it not possible God is moving in us in a new time to open us up to love?
As a final thought on this whole subject - What is the goal? What is there to be lost for those against transition? TO BE "RIGHT"....? for whos sake?
Mr. Preston, from you I’m under the impression that Catholics have a great sense of the nature of a human being. May I ask why this is? What gives Catholics in particular this sensibility?
I think it's very simple. You are born male or female (based on the genitals which is how we identify people since the beginning of time) but when you say you're opposite of your genitals THAT is how you FEEL. So there's fact, and then there's 'feeling'. (I wish I could be more precise in what I'm saying-somebody rephrase it for me)
Thats why it is best to leave it to the scientists to explain. Once the medical community takes the reign back on this issue and does thorough research and begins publishing papers on the issue, then I think things will go back to the way they were culturally.
I understand what you are saying though, but the problem is too many people who shouldn't be weighing in flooding the conversations. For example, social media influencers and tik tok people are not experts and most of them aren't even college educated. So why is anyone listening to an influencer or a person in a tik tok video for medical, legal and psychological advice??? It's just not smart and irrational.
I will say I did notice an increase in transitioning and the increase in plastic surgery that occurred over the last 5 years. The plastic surgery/med spa treatment industries are the primary businesses that stands to gain the most financially from this including the prescription drug business who sell hormones.
The plastic surgery and med spa treatments trends (ie nose jobs, buccal fat removal, fillers, lip fillers, breast jobs, botox, restaylne, jaw reshaping, liposuction, bbls, tummy tucks, body reshaping, etc) that took over in the past 5 years is one of the most bizarre trends I have ever witnessed.
10 years ago plastic surgeons didn't really operate on 20 year or 30 yr olds or would they give them botox or fillers. Those cosmetic procedures were really for men and women in the 50s when there were signs of aging. Or for people who had facial deformities (ie cleft palate) or accident and burn victims.
Now 20 yr olds and younger who are perfectly healthy are going in for cosmetic work and getting it done like they going into the nail salon or for a hair appt. Cosmetic work isn't reversible as it is a medical procedure and invasive (including botox and fillers). Now you are seeing all these social media videos complaining about how cosmetic surgery ruined people's looka; botched nose jobs and boob jobs; facial and lip fillers that can't be removed and are causing sagging and loose skin; botox that is migrating and bbls that are killing people.
1.7 of the population is intersex (while only 1.2 are trans). Thats not including the amount of people w non XX/XY chromosomes. An XY male may not have testosterone receptors and come out with a vagina. They are producing testosterone and they are male by brain and blood but they have a vagina. They won't get a period they don't have ovaries they have testicals internally. It's more complicated than that bro. Reducing it down to just what's in your pants is as far as Baboons get. We are not baboons. We have the ability to look beyond that. Trans people show for dimorphisms in the brain and I hate to break it to yyou but I can rip my vagina inside out if I wanted to but it wont change who I am and if you get cancer of the d*ck and it's cut off you are still you. But trans people have the BRAIN neuron size of the sex they claim. Whats the biggest sex organ on the human body? Whats the source of identity? What determines mind body connection? The Mind. This isn't like in the case of delusions where there is a misfire happening in an otherwise typical brain. When I have a delusion that a robot is after me my brain doesn't change shape. It's just misfiring. A physical dimporphism of the most crucial part of our body is how I determine sex. Not what's in your pants and not what your blood is.
The issue is ontological, unless you discuss the metaphysical issues you're not being "raw."
No sound.
It seems to me that on no level. Are you willing to say that these people are who they say they are and whom they believe that they truly are. I know that both of you have spoken to a trans person before and you have witnessed the pain that they live in each and every day, and you have realized that all they are looking for is an escape from that pain from that discomfort in escape from that pain.. but after listening to the both of you, I think they would find no soft spot to come to rest on.
I never learned any of that.
What's the point of socially transitioning maybe being acceptable if the what you suffer from is body dysphoria? I was a femme man for years...in appearance, but I'm an alpha type A personality. The body dysphoria never stopped, though.
you can be LGBT and Christian 👬
It's really not that complicated because it's like if you're born blind you have a gift to see in the world through your own eyes. I was born with the sense that I was a little boy and as I grew older I learned I was a girl and but I had the inner sense and we also learned what homosexuality was in the encyclopedia so we were reading about what the world thought we were way back in like even at 7 8 7 so it's not crazy for us we see the world different than y'all and you can't see what a gay person sees I can't see what a straight person sees that you just have to talk to one another and that's the whole point that God is trying to say in Jesus is trying to say you have to lay down your pride and talk and tell your truth and that takes honesty and integrity the Mormons do a good job at it John Delin or Mormon stories they're deconstructing their faith as well over this.
It takes a village ..
~29:30… beautiful.