My Story from Evangelicalism to Ancient Christianity
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Kyle King @barrelagedfaith shares his story from modern evangelical Protestantism to his discovery of ancient Christianity from 2005 to 2008 (and beyond). 🗻 Explore more about Orthodoxy & Ancient Christianity through the imaginative worlds of C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkien, & the Church Fathers here: www.barrelaged... 🙏 Support Barrel Aged Faith: www.barrelaged... (*Only $5 a Month for Exclusive Articles, Courses, & Books!)
C.S. Lewis & Tolkien Related Books I recommend:
📘Further Up & Further In: Orthodox Conversations w/ C.S. Lewis on Scripture & Theology by Dr. Edith Humphrey amzn.to/3WMIrYa
📗Tolkien Dogmatics by Austin Freeman: amzn.to/3xzxHCd
📕Dr. Holly Ordway's "Tolkien's Faith: A Spiritual Biography" amzn.to/3v45yBZ
📙 Dr. Peter Kreeft's "Symbol or Substance?: A Dialogue on the Eucharist with C. S. Lewis, Billy Graham and J. R. R. Tolkien" amzn.to/3ttR6m4
📘 Dr. Peter Kreeft's "The Philosophy of Tolkien: The Worldview Behind The Lord of the Rings" amzn.to/3RPBVgk
📗Christina Hale's "Deeper Heaven: A Reader's Guide to C. S. Lewis's Ransom Trilogy" amzn.to/3GNFJZh
📚Chronicles of Narnia Box Set for your home library: amzn.to/4aoAnRV
📙Fr. Michael Ward's "Narnia Code" amzn.to/3GQyhg6
📕 Narnia Vision of the Atonement" amzn.to/3RM0YBa
Recommended Books:
📙Fr. Andrew Damick's "Lord of Spirits: The Lord of Spirits: An Orthodox Christian Framework for the Unseen World and Spiritual amzn.to/4at8Fne
📕 Fr. Andrew Damick's "Bearing God: The Life and Works of St. Ignatius of Antioch the God-Bearer" amzn.to/3yXS1xI
Your approach is refreshing. Love this Kyle!
There’s a CS Lewis quote about what it takes to actually start moving forward when you’ve realized you’re on the wrong path, that deeply connected to my movement towards Orthodoxy. Two wrongs don’t make a right, 1,000+ wrongs still don’t make a right. Returning to the start matters.
I entered the Orthodox Church at St. Joseph's in Wheaton, IL, across the street from Wheaten College, Pascha 2004. I'm a married Orthodox Christian hermit living in a remote part of the Ozarks in extreme Southern Missouri today, praying and working to bring the Orthodox Church to our neighbors here.
Fr. John Matusiak of blessed memory was the first Recor priest at St. Joseph's and brought more than a thousand souls into the Church during his ministry.
wow! Great story
@barrelagedfaith Fr. John was the champion for puttthe Orthodox Church directly across the RR tracks from Wheaton College.
I'm a frmr Catholic Apologist for the RC Rockford IL diocese.
It blows my mind how Protestant people, especially academics who know a ton, can stay Protestant after being immersed in the fathers. It is so obvious which “Church” they were a part of and what they believed and practiced, and it is very little like Protestantism (whether historic or contemporary).
Your first experience with the fathers is familiar to me. I first researched Orthodox through philosophy and theology, then history, then I remember one night reading some homilies and commentaries and it just hit me.
I had this feeling that I never got since I first started reading the Bible at 16. I had this profound sense of "I'm not familiar with this at all, but it seems other worldly, holy, and wise." I went through Bible college and never got that experience again until that one night at about 28 years old reading homilies and commentaries. Seeing their love and relationship with Christ, the simplicity of language but depth of meaning, everything I found in Scripture, you could've tricked me that it *was* scripture. "Tricked" is a funny word because obviously the writings of the fathers are very loved and revered.
But that was the thing ultimately that did it for me with Orthodox, that I felt like I was exposed to writings and people that matched the spirit that I experienced in Scripture, which I never found anywhere else. ☦️
"Six kids and one on the way"!
Wooooow! That is AWESOME!!!
I think a lot of us had a very similar journey. I remember when I was studying orthodoxy in the 90s there was a man named Jaroslav Pelikan, arguably one of the greatest church, historians in the history of man. He ended up converting to orthodoxy, which struck me as odd back then that a man of his knowledge would do that. However, after doing my own research into the early church, I realized that the question of what is the church is lost in our present day culture. Church has become so relative and secular and the worship is geared toward entertainment and feeding your emotions rather than a genuine encounter with the living God.
Also, worship requires a sacrifice. Where's the sacrifice?!?
What church are you referring to?
Awesome video. I’m going through a similar journey myself. Out of curiosity is there anyway you could do a video on the differences between Holy Orthodoxy and Catholicism on remarriage and divorce? Odd subject I know but it’s been a big deal for me coming from a Southern Baptist background and then into Anglican Catholic and now finally Greek Orthodoxy. Great video btw and love the channel!
Ancient Faith Dr Jeannie was talking about this today!
ua-cam.com/users/livesI3_okdwYyE?si=-GOVnaWQKV8wnp2b
I've written and partially filmed some of this privately about 10 months ago but yet to release it. Ubi Petras has done the most work on this online at the popular level: ua-cam.com/video/TGFTryFhsLo/v-deo.htmlsi=Q3P3aNg1TcdgBOoI
He also has quick summary here: ubipetrusibiecclesia.com/2020/01/05/church-fathers-and-patristic-era-writers-on-the-topic-of-divorce-and-remarriage-a-florilegium/
@@barrelagedfaiththis was helpful thank you! I appreciate this kind of thing because it helps me get a better understanding on everything.
Thank you for making this. God Bless ☦️
Bring it brother. Love from your Catholic brother!
Almost 2 decades ago, Ancient Future Worship by Robert Webber planted seeds for my eventual journey to Orthodoxy. I wish it hadn’t taken so long, but thank God me and my family are coming into the Church now.
Your viewers may appreciate the new, short book "Journey to Reality" by Zachary Porcu. Porcu does a great job guiding people from Protestantism/modernity to the Ancient Orthodox Faith without getting too far into the theological/philosophical weeds.
Great stream!
So looking forward to your interview with Patitsas !
Great video! Fasting is foundational for our spiritual lives. Iron sharpens Iron!
Read Fr Peter Gilchrists books! From Evangelical Protestant to EO priest! The “Evangelical Orthodox Church “ my hubby came in through them in Santa Cruz mountains late 80s…was a EO deacon for 30 years..
Luckily Calvin freaked me out so I avoided him much
RC Sproul oh yes I did listen to him!
I was big into EWTN when I was RC 2006-2014
@@orthodoxboomergrandma3561
I agree regarding Calvin. I started out fairly low church Methodist. Realized something was missing. Read about the reformers. Luther impressed me. Calvin’s theology however made God out to be a monster. I quickly realized that Protestantism couldn’t be true. But something about Rome seemed off as well. I could never buy into the papal supremacy claims. And that to go to heaven, you had to be in communion with one specific bishop. Orthodoxy was the only option.
@@countryboyred amen!
I really appreciate the Apostolic Church focus for this video. I'm still not (100%) sure which Apostolic Church is the True Church, but I know the True Church definitely isn't one of the non-Apostolic "churches."
Actually, I consider the four Apostolic Churches to be the True Church, they're just in disunion. They'll reunite someday. Some of them even in our lifetime, Insha'Allah. ☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻
But that doesn't really do much to help me decide. 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
I think we can narrow it down a bit further. The orientals broke off fairly early on because they didn’t accept the council of Chalcedon. To me that makes it pretty obvious they are in schism (no hate towards them though, I hold them in high esteem). Really the only two that were hard for me to discern was Rome or Orthodoxy. And between those two, it really comes down to the papacy. If you believe in all the papal claims, Rome is the only option. After years of personal study, I could not reconcile Rome’s claims with the history of the early church. In the end, Orthodoxy appears to be the most cohesive continuation of the early church.
@@countryboyred same here I had a similar process to orthodoxy
I chose Catholicism some of my friends chose Orthodoxy. We sometimes go to Church together. Both have their particular set of advantages. Whatever you do commit to one or the other get baptized do confessions, processions etc etc. It will grow your faith. I think the times will be much more pressing very soon. So if you hear the call follow it.
My biggest sticking point is currently Mary and how much Orthodoxy magnifies her. I am sold on the early church fathers and the liturgy, but I just struggle with making the leaps they make with Mary.
That is the biggest hurdle, but once you understand what the Church is really doing with its teaching and prayer in this area (and the communion of Saints), it is a very healing “dropping of the other shoe” of the full implications of the Incarnation. I speak as a former Evangelical of 40 years, now Orthodox coming up on two decades in a couple more years. No regrets!
Mary was the biggest hurdle for me as well. To be completely honest, I still think some of it is over the top. The only way I can make sense of it is that she is the Mother of God. Even an honest Protestant can admit that. She bore God in her womb. For that reason alone she deserves our respect. And if you believe the saints are alive in heaven and praying for us, then it makes sense Mary is up there too. Since she is Jesus’ mother and is so close to Him, it makes sense she is the greatest of all the saints, and her prayers are most effective.
@@MrBaggins94 yes, I totally understand respect and veneration. I liken it to when I was in the military we had pictures of heroic Marines that were highly decorated in our halls such as Chesty Puller, John Basilone, etc. We learned about them in boot camp and to respect their memory. So the veneration of saints makes sense to me. But we would never say I joined the Marine Corps to serve Chesty Puller or John Basilone, we join to serve our country. In a similar way, I became a Christian to worship Jesus, I have no problem respecting saints, but I worship Jesus alone. I particularly have trouble with lines it certain hymns to Mary such as “we magnify thee” and “save us”. Just some thoughts, sorry for the long comment.
Imagine: God came as a man, God the creator of the everything, God the Word, God the Principle, the Life - became man, in a womb of a young woman (mid teenage obedient yong lady), then raised, bathed, everything that a baby does, at age 30 when according to His own approved laws He became fully aged ("adult" citizen) and revealed His real self, he still listened to His human mother with obedience; God who created life was given life in a womb of a young woman, who He obeyed with love even up to the Cross.
You don't have to imagine, it's all real.
We know God only dwells in pure. How pure should she have been to be His mother?
It's just all logical conclusion after knowing everything Christ teaches
@@MrBaggins94catholic dogmas are an innovation
Perhaps Lewis would have been a part of one of the Continuing Anglican churches.
I doubt it. He was more high church Anglo-Catholic than that, and Penal Sub theory did not sit well with him (as I recall from Mere Christianity).
@@lornadoone8887
Hmmm…most of the prominent Continuing Anglican churches ( the ones that arose in the 1970s in reaction to women’s ordination) that I’m aware of are high church/Anglo-Catholic 🤔
@@doubtingthomas9117The ones I’m aware of around here that have broken away (more recently) from the liberal mainstream Episcopal Church and come under Kenyan bishops are indistinguishable theologically from most other Evangelicals who accept infant baptism and have a more traditional liturgy. The local high church Anglo-Catholic parish I visited a few times (in the early 80s) and to which Wheaton College Webber students used to go for their “bells & smells” is still in communion with the mainstream Episcopal Church and flies the Rainbow flag on their website.
@@lornadoone8887 gotcha. Do y’all have any parishes of the Anglican Catholic Church nearby?
Not sure if it's just me. Other videos on UA-cam I'm watching all the way through no problem. This one ever minute or so I have to refresh the video and move to the time stamp I was last at to continue. Super annoying. Any idea why?
You went to Taylor University? Are you still in that area of the Midwest? I am in Indiana! Hello brother!
Well after you are done chasing your tale then there is the church Christ started the ONE HOLY APOSTOLIC CATHOLIC CHURCH .
Pretty much the only hurdle for me is Mary being sinless all her life by her own will.
What’s strange is that their only document supporting this is the Proto Evangelium, which they admit is fictional, but they treat so much of it as it is not. How do we know which parts are and aren’t fiction?
Are there any other historical documents talking about this older than the Infancy Gospel? Because if there are, I’m all ears.
Dont worry, very many go through that aswell, it will pass though
Read about christology and you may not even need this evidence or that about Mary. Once you have an understanding of Christ with our limited understanding of course, most of the questions about Mary will be easy.
@@abrahamtesfu5461 Are you referring to Mary being the New Eve? If that's the case then yes I believe it; I just don't think she had to be sinless her whole life to be the New Eve.
Or the belief that she lived in the Most Holy Place. The idea that Jews would allow a young girl to live for years in the Most Holy Place, where only the high priest was allowed once per year, is simply not believable.
@@amandarobertson2157 if you understand the nature of Jesus and the pure lamb, he need to be born from a sinless human being that being Mary. How his blood on the cross would be to pay all our debt, please read books and mostly pray. I apologize my English is not good enough
It’s sad to see the latent scars of protestantism that has led you to break away from Christ’s Rock. It’s ultimately selfishness, brother. You are, as you know, called and commanded to lead the Orthodox back to Communion with Rome or leave, as you said during your church planting.
Protestantism broke off from Apostolic Tradition and has gone haywire. And Holy Orthodoxy takes Apostolic Tradition much more seriously than Rome. Between the two, Roman Catholicism is the one infected with Protestantism, particularly today when massive change can occur from one Pope to the next. On a personal note, the battle between pride and humility as well as selfishness and love is a daily fight in the arena that we must all face. If anything, Orthodoxy equips me to die to myself more than Roman Catholicism and Protestantism both of which have largely lost the ascetical life, which is essential in developing humility. So pray for me.
Why do you think the Orthodox Church preserves apostolic tradition more than the Byzantine Catholic Church?
It has not added the heresies of the “Filioque”, Papal Supremacy and Infallibility, Purgatory, Indulgences and those abuses that sparked the Protestant Reformation. I have spent most of my Orthodox life in parishes founded by Byzantine Rite Catholics who emigrated to the USA and returned to Holy Orthodoxy (the faith of their ancestors) when their pastoral needs were refused by the Roman hierarchy in this land. The bio of St. Alexis Toth of Wilkes-Barre is instructive about the different approach of these two traditions (Latin vs. EO). It is the preference of the Orthodox Church that parish Priests in the world (vs. a monastery) be married with families, for example. The best way to appreciate the difference would be to spend some time in each kind of parish.
Read the history behind Uniate churches. It’s pretty ugly. It was an attempt by Rome to coerce the Orthodox back into communion. A lot of it was by threats and violence. Uniate churches didn’t exist pre-schism.
Rome.
The Spirit moves within every denominational polity of the Lord's people, drawing them to be close to Him. He provides a home for all of us.
But beware any group that claims it is the one true way.
The Lord Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. Our trust is in Him. Not a particular historical/cultural tradition.
Does the holy spirit move within? Islam?
Narrow is the gate…
@@KillerofGods He draws all people, as Jesus said: "When I am lifted up, I will draw all people to myself."
It doesn't matter a person's cultural origins. What matters is where a person puts their faith, in the Lord Jesus.
When faith is where it needs to be, and a person is born of the Spirit in Christ and joined to his family, then the Holy Spirit begins his renovation project.
@@stephenbailey9969 Okay, and if you follow Islam you think Jesus is a great prophet.
@@KillerofGods Not about what you think or what you do. It's about who he is. Christ is power that comes in an experiential way. When he comes in power, there is no doubt. Two sources for you: Nabeel Qureishi's "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus" and Craig S. Keener's "Miracles Today".
No mention of the scriptures
Ok
You expected "I James 2'd my way for too long, then Romans 14'd it, eventually ending with John 6. So now I'm Orthodox"...?
It's a story of his life and journey dude lol
So what you mean is "no personal interpretation of scripture" because he actually talks about the importance of scripture in the video...
You don’t think this man reads his bible?
I suggest you read the church fathers, also. You realize very quickly how versed they are in scripture. Scripture has never been the issue. It’s one’s interpretation of said scriptures that gets called into question.
It blows my mind how Protestant people, especially academics who know a ton, can stay Protestant after being immersed in the fathers. It is so obvious which “Church” they were a part of and what they believed and practiced, and it is very little like Protestantism (whether historic or contemporary).
I think the natural reaction especially for someone who is truly a die hard Protestant is a tendency to read the Church Fathers through the lens of Protestantism. Picking out specific quotes from people like Augustine or Jerome that sound a bit Protestant and then trying to rationalize saying “see, they agree with me!” But the more you read, it becomes painfully obvious and inescapable- these men were not Protestants in any way, shape, or form. At that point you either have the humility to admit that you were wrong your entire life and become Catholic or Orthodox, or just kind of brush it off and remain Protestant. Switching faith traditions can be really difficult. It took me years of reading church history and reading the lives of the saints before I finally gave in and had to admit to myself that Protestantism was bunk.
Just like politics people always pick their teams.
I don't think I will ever "pick" a religious denomination of man.
I don't think I can ever reconcile things enough to have a team.
How do you decide between the Sabbath or the first day?
How do you decide between celebrating passover and Easter?
Etc....
Almost 2 decades ago, Ancient Future Worship by Robert Webber planted seeds for my eventual journey to Orthodoxy. I wish it hadn’t taken so long, but thank God me and my family are coming into the Church now.
I wasn't sure who would even know of Robert Webber's work in this video, but the church fathers conference at Wheaton was organized/inspired by him. Glad to hear he also inspired you!
You went to Taylor University? Are you still in that area of the Midwest? I am in Indiana! Hello brother!