These should be standard data points for selling EVs! This is real world stuff that's more important than battery size, real world charging speed is the real road trip data.
Love this too. Maybe after collecting a little more data, throw a google sheet in the description so people can quickly, and easily see and compare results (including handshake for fun … why not) Thanks for all you do!
@@KyleConnert keeps it more consistent. Id like the ring of on "E" challenge. That has more variability though. Maybe the next set of videos haha(when E light comes on)
I just completed my new Porsche questionnaire after buying my new Taycan 4 CT. When asked why I chose this vehicle, my answer was Out of Spec You Tube! Thank you guys, quality factual information.
@@vickykennel7414 EPA ratings for the Taycan versions are just CRAP, dude! EPA claims "only 230 miles" for the Taycan base version, but in reality the number is at nearly 300 miles! What about this, you clown???? The Porsche Taycans aren't made for "having the best range of all EVs", they are made for soulfully driving in the REAL WORLD. And this "from 10% to 10% SoC with only 15 minutes of DC fast charging"-test shows me enough about the REAL WORLD capabilities of this EV! Teslas just can't keep up with the Porsche Taycan when it comes to DC fast charging/roadtripping miles... in the REAL WORLD! The EV Cannonball record with a Taycan shows it even more clearer. The "pink Elon fantasy Tesla PR blah blah world" is just the world for idiots like you, dude! 🤣🤣😂😂
I effortlessly went from VA Beach to Summerville SC with an 18 min charge in between. We arrived at 8% SoT and barely had enough time to use the restroom and grab a quick bite to eat. That's why I opted for the 22 RWD Taycan, it's a cruising beast. An older couple charging their ID4 was shocked that I was leaving before then but arrived after. The map with the blue range outline was spot on, I love the visual feature. It's comfortable and basically drives itself on long trips with active lane keep and adaptive cruise control.
Have you had issues with fast-charging your Taycan? I hear all these horror stories about CCS chargers in the US, and I'm curious, since I've only owned a Tesla. Kyle, as we saw, had some mild issues with connectivity, but nothing really problematic.
@@coredumperror Zero issues with the Taycan but a few questionable reliability issues with Electrify America, it's getting better though. I've never been stuck on a long distance drive but the potential was there if multiple charges are down. Like many EV drivers 99% of my charging is done at home.
Cool video Kyle I just charged my 2022 EV6 at an EA 150 kWh charger and pulled 173 kWh went from 18% to 80% in 18 minutes. I will be doing my own 15 minute charge challenge later this spring, again fun video to watch,thanks.
I was just thinking about doing the same, I may run it too. I have an EV6 longe range and have achieved 9-80% in just under 19 min, max at 234 kw. It would be hard to beat that Tesla but it could quite get close.
Spreadsheet suggestion: add a "Notes" column, where you'd put weather/wind info, and/or any other caveates. Also, have a column that links to the video! :)
Very important. I’m currently on a cross country road trip from Cleveland, Ohio to Las Vegas in my etron GT and there was a stretch between Kansas City, MO and Colorado Springs that just destroyed my efficiency due to a really bad (20-30 mph) crosswind the whole way. It was sunny and perfect temp but that wind surprised me. Had to stop to charge more frequently than I originally planned. I usually get around 3.0-3.2 miles per kWh on the highway with good weather conditions but it dropped to 2.5-2.6 on that stretch.
When I fill up my car I usually wait till about 10% left before going to the gas station so it seems like a good number for comparing to a gas vehicle too. For road trips I'd want to stop every 2-3 hours regardless of what's fueling the car so this length of test could be comparable to many more cars as well.
The most useful video I watched on UA-cam in quite a while. I'm looking forward to seeing that spreadsheet fill up. Thanks for all you do for the EV community Kyle.
I'm confused. When you charged the Model Y you sat in the car with HVAC running because you said that would best reflect a person on a road trip. But now you have the Taycan completely off while charging. Why the inconsistency?
@@TotallyJoel I have to disagree. If someone sees the result of the 10% challenge was 148 miles. What are they going to think? Likely, that on a 100% charge you could go 1,480 miles... If you say the result of the 15 minute charge challenge is 148 miles, it just makes more sense.
Given some of the recent charging tests by Bjørn, the Model S plaid would probably crush it given the huge charging boost at low SoC and the insane efficiency of the motors. Curious to see EQS 450+ as well, but the max charging rate of 200kW-ish might be a limiting factor. I also feel the charging initiation time should be in the spreadsheet and contribute to final score. Charging for 15 minutes means nothing if I have to fiddle with handshakes, apps, registration, etc., with the exception being faulty chargers.
I think this test is one of the most important, if not THE most important test for people wading into the EV tech. I would like to see you slow down and explain why it's important, how it applies to common people rather than EV geeks, and how this information should be key when comparing cars to purchase. It's so good a test,if you can't convey the why of it and the usefulness of it to the ordinary new users of EVs someone else will take the lead and do it on another channel. Maybe have your wife interact with you when you dish out this great information. 👍👍👍
I have a Taycan GTS. I don't really care about a 15 minute test because it's not realistic, and it should also be presumed that with the dearth of chargers you will have to wait a while in many instances (especially here in Southern California). It has never been the case that when I charge from 10% to 85% that it takes less than 45 minutes, and it's not much faster with the 350 kWh chargers. All of the hype about the speed of charging a Taycan or any other EV is just that, hype that doesn't come from real world ownership.
@@waltermyersiii I'm a 2020 Turbo driver, and I've put 28,000 miles on the car, including road trips up and down the west coast and across the US. I routinely get 5-80% in 22 minutes, and usually charge on longer road trips for about 15 minutes. Are you preconditioning for charge by setting the destination? Since the most recent update to the 2022 software, I'm finding that I'm almost always getting 265 kW+ when I plug in with less than about 40% SoC, but only if I've set the charger as a destination in the Tayacan's nav.
@@coyotegeek I have the updated software. I'm presuming you only get that at 350 kW chargers? There are very few here in the Irvine area. Only one within 10 miles. I noticed he's using EVGo whidh isn't free instead of the free EA. Is that because they have more chargers at 350 kW and deliver near what the Taycan will take? At the EA 150 kW chargers here, it has never been less than 40-45 minutes to get from 5-80%.
@@waltermyersiii You need a 350 kW charger to get the Tacans best charge speed. I don't think EVGo has more 350 kW chargers, in fact I think they have far fewer than EA. The reality is that EA builds 350 kW principally for what they call 'corridor charging,' which means along major interstate routes. Most of the suburban/city chargers have historically been 150 kW, though I've seen that change a bit lately here in the DC area.
Can vouch this is an amazing roadtrip car. Drive at 75mph instead of 80 and you extend the range and minimize the stops quite well. I also found the sweet spot of charging at 17 minutes which is close to 80% and the charging speed dropping below 125kw. One tip to preserve battery, don’t put the car into range mode right after a DCFC. I believe the manual says to wait 20 min before doing so to allow airflow into the radiators/cooling system.
I agree. I also charged for about 18min. Never longer. That is enough to go to about 80%. 18min is also about the time we need to go to the restroom, get some drinks, stretch legs, update gps. So we aren't really waiting for the car. I had an (older) model X before. Then I had to typically charge for 35min. Then I really had to wait.
This is a great new test format! The 10% 15 minute challenge is a very effective way to compare EVs... The Taycan looks amazing in so many ways! The Porsche has to compensate for it's mediocre charging network vs Tesla, and it gives you a reason to consider it! But they really do Pay Wall the super high performance versions. The 4S looks like the best bang for the buck ( About 10.6 Quarter @ 130MPH) IMHO, but the Cross Turismo is tempting, too.
"... the Porsche has to compensate for its mediocre charging network vs. Tesla...." Well, this isn't actually Porsches "fault", I would say... Also Porsche doesn't have an "own charging network". For example, here in Germany at superfast EnBW or Ionity DC fast charging stations, a Porsche Taycan will always be ahead and much faster charging than any Tesla can do at a "Tesla own" Supercharger. By the way, Tesla / Supercharger is the only carmaker-exclusive charging network in the industry so far. As a term, "Porsche has to compensate for its charging network", it's just totally wrong. Greetings from Germany
"..., but the Cross Turismo is tempting, too". Again, this is quite wrong, because the Cross Turismo is just the "station wagon" version of the Taycan and has nothing to do with "different battery specs or different engine power". Because these things are all the same for all three different (Taycan, Sport Turismo, Cross Turismo) Taycan body versions.
Great video and great idea for this series of videos. Makes a lot of sense to do this style because it approximates what we all do when road tripping EVs. One question I have is are you going to use the same exact charger with each test loop? I think EA and EVGo can be so variable with availability/usability/max speed. You are seeing optimal charge speeds with this test but having seen other non-Tesla EV videos I think the ideal experience is not always seen. Derated chargers can totally change the experience of road tripping and results of this test.
I said it last time too. I really like this test since many of my trips in my PHEV I plug in on little chargers if they are cheap or free and generally my washroom and snack breaks average about 12 minutes. 15 seems very reasonable for wait times. I wish chargers were as consistent as your testing protocols. I might actually consider an EV if 350kw chargers were plentiful and actually worked.
Love this test! I just recently bought a model Y and I'm happy with it. But I was thinking about what was important in an EV I was realizing that the ability to fast charge and get you to the next way point seemed even more important than range and you are confirming my idea. Range is nice but I don't need 300 miles for a daily commute and even on a road trip 300 miles may only be good for the first stretch of the trip. So the ability to charge fast is really what makes an EV a viable option. Plug in hybrids are also a good idea but I think they need to be closer to 100 miles range on electric.
The problem with a long-electric-range PHEV is that all that battery weight (and expense) is dead weight once you switch over to gas. That means worse MPG on road trips, with little to no benefit around town, since most folks don't drive anywhere near 100 miles in a typical day. There are some people who have the perfect use pattern for such a vehicle, but probably not enough for it to be economical to produce.
I would think that the Electrify America stations will toss a monkey wrench in to it. Arriving with 10% at the EA station does not leave many options for a different one if the chargers are down.
Other people have probably suggested this but I’m thinking an additional stat at the completion of the 10% test could be total average speed. So for the Taycan would be 140 miles decided by speed (80) equals 1 3/4 hrs. Add 15 minutes of charging for total time, 2 hours for 140 miles. Total average speed is 70 mph. It helps compare the travel time to ICE cars with bottomless fuel tanks and owners who don’t need rest breaks. Just sayin.
I feel like a prude, lowest I’ve ever gone in my Rivian was ~18%. I really take the, “keep the battery between 20-80%” religiously for long-term life of the battery.
Not only that, but range anxiety will keep most people like myself from letting a BEV go below 20% on a long road trip due to the unrelaible public-charging infrastructure. I'm not pulling into a public-charging station at 2% or 5% when I can't count on there being working chargers there, and where the next-nearest charging station might be well outside my range.
I also think it's a good idea to do this on the ID.4, Pulsar and Mach E. These are cars that are within most budgets. Bolt and Leaf is just for fun times. But it's not a good idea.
This is my favorite test too! Awesome criteria👍 I'm looking forward to some of the more mainstream models like Ioniq 5. Also of course your dad's model 3. I think tracking the handshake time is critical because Tesla still nails that and would have been charging almost 3 mins longer when you came back to plug in.
Anna has a CCS dependent road-tripper. That's the fly in the ointment. Maybe there should be a formula where you subtract charging time based on the amount of time it takes to start charging at a CCS charger, LOL. A Tesla would be several minutes ahead in charging time when the communication finally is finished with a CCS charger. For example, 3 minutes to communicate, then only 12 minutes allowed for charging.
I love the fact that you do this test and I love that Porsche did so well. Having said that, the even better new initiative you have started is reporting the status of charging stations. Unfortunately, I am not a Twitter member. Could you please provide a status of that at least every six months on You Tube so we can avoid the bad guys, go to the good guys and see the rate of improvement. Along with that it would be great if you could discuss the Non-Tesla charger rollout. Thanks
Yeah, I don't do Twitter or Instagram. I wish that Kyle would post more on "conventional" venues like FB. Instagram is a teanie venue, and Twitter is for weirdos or people obsessed with pop culture as far as I can see.
13:45 the support strap on the charging cable is places exactly where it would keep the lowest point of the cable from touching the ground (and wearing thru).
I enjoy this new test & appreciate all the work you put into your videos Kyle. I've used the CCS adapter once on my MX & even not expecting much, using an EA charger was clunky & slow. It's just hard to not include the handshake, try again, & restart the app as part of a "real-world" test though. Maybe you could include the amount of time spent actually getting the charge to initiate in the table as well. I get you're showing the best possible scenario but practically 25-30% of your 15 minute charge on public infrastructure just initiating the charge. Your dad's recent trip to Florida highlights how unlikely it is that you're going to get full charging speeds or fast handshakes from EA. I think Taycan is the most beautiful EV currently available though overpriced. But in the real world, it's going to take way more time getting the charge done more often than not. Someday I assume other chargers will figure it out or Superchargers will just totally take over charging infrastructure. But for the foreseeable future, it's way more reliable to stick with Tesla & know I can get 100 miles almost every time without fuss at a Supercharger!
Of course we want the old leaf! I am betting that it will take you 45 min or less to run the whole test, 15 min of charging followed by 30 min of driving (no more than 40 miles at 80 mph)... Here is a suggestion, if possible, at the end of a 10% challenge video let us know the next car you plan to test so we can put in our bets... my bet on the Leaf considering the condition of the battery is actually 35 miles at 80 mph after a 15 min charge.
Shouldn't you start the 15 minute counter at plug in? If everyone is handicapped because of EA having a slow start, that should be considered in the test.
I agree. The timer should start when you plug in. The handshake time should count because that is part of charging, and the time you will have to spend on a road trip
The only thing fairer I could consider would be "include all the charging prep-work in the 15 minutes" (fiddling with app, handshake, grabbing adapters, etc), but ... damn, that gets fiddlly/grey. That would require relevant cards for everyone/thing so it's not the cell phone's fault.... If Plug&Charge is slower, is it on you to know that and use a card instead, or ... ... ... Seems not-tractable, so I think your current approach is good 'nuf.
I really like your challenge. There are two ways to excel at this challenge though, charge rate or efficiency. As you get more cars, it will be useful if you included some way to determine at least one of those two, so that we can figure out why the Porsche beat the pants off of the Model Y. Was it mostly the average charge rate, or was it the efficiency at the speedy 80mph. The trucks are really going to pay for their brick shape at this speed. Something like total kWh added during the charge, or miles/kWh average for the test would be nice to include for comparison. Maybe these numbers aren't globally available for all cars. I tend to think that Porsche was likely better on both accounts on your test.
If you're counting actual time at charger, one should start the time as soon as you get out at the charger. As a Tesla owner, time it starts to charge at Supercharger vs other chargers can be several minutes upto 10 when you have to move to a unit that actually works. V3 SC in 10 minutes can do a lot of charge especially at low SOC. Just saying.
I'm REALLY curious how the new I6 is going to compare to this - just slightly lower top charging speed, but maybe its efficiency will get it to compare with the Tycan.
In the spreadsheet you added, can you please add which type of charger you went with, and a link to each of their own video (probably with timestamps on the handshake part). Thank You
Impressive! However, you're still at a huge disadvantage with charging stations, so this is the best case scenario and rare in 2023. There isn't even 50kW charging in some places in the US.
Yup time should start imo from when he exits the car regardless of what car at what charger using what app. 15mins from leaving the seat to stopping the charge and leaving the station period. But he knows this would favor the company that begins with a T ends with a A and has esl in the middle. 👍🏻
I will say the higher speed limit may make the larger SUV/truck vehicles with larger frontal area seem worse than they are for other areas of the country where 80 is not reasonable or legal when you're comparing to smaller cars.
You should try to factor in the percentage benefit against vehicle cost. It's all very well having something faster than another but then at a hugely prohibitive cost for most, that's unattainable but interesting to play with.
Really like this test but feel like referencing the 15 minutes of charging time in the name would be helpful. Have you thought about referencing both the 10% start and 15m charging time, something like the 10/15 challenge or 10%/15m challenge?
This is a great test for road trips, I guess a test for just driving around town would be boring, but for 95% of the time that is what most of us do with our cars. Unless you have a job that keeps you on the road (and they don't give you a company car) road trips are infrequent.
If you use the same charging location and app then including the handshake/setup time would be fair as it would be the same across all CCS cars. We can argue individual location or network issues, vs Tesla in terms of how much benefit do they really have, but it would at least recognise there is a benefit. Wouldn't change the 1st place result of the Taycan (which given it's a 2wd low slung sports car vs a 4wd crossover at half the price really should win), but the deficit is not as much as shown in the real world.
The new bigger battery Taycan may use 10% less per mile, and charges a lot faster for a flatter curve. Could well achieve 15 minute near 300 kW average, say 70 kWh added. The air drag coefficient is down from 0.25 to 0.22 so that ought to translate to 10% lower highway consumption, or better, and then the motors and wiring and cells are probably a good bit more efficient as well. Ov er 200 miles next?
Great new test Kyle!! Yep, I learned from you to roll in at 1-3% ... but I think this is a very fair test for us roadtrippers. The Tacan is very impressive ... just way too expensive.
Rolling in at 1-3% SoC is not realistic for most people; range anxiety is a very real thing when you cannot count on public-charging stations to work reliably, if at all.
Love these videos. Basically shows how good an EV would be at a cannonball. I bet the Ioniq 6 long range RWD with the small wheels will be able to beat this. Maybe beat everything. Would be interesting to see.
This works out to be 70 mph made good including stops, AAA surveys report an ICE average of 62 mph made good including stops. The miles made good test should also be included in measuring performance because it can be compared to ICE travel as well as other EVs. It can also be accurately obtained from the 10%-15 minute test. The hand shake must be included on both ends of the test however particularly when comparing against Teslas.
its great that it charges so fast in 15 mins but how often will you find a charger that is reliable? Model y charges slower but I know it will always work.
@@kellyheath8547 you haven't seen some of the stupid things Toyota does. Charing is limited if the ambient temperature is low. Not battery temp. Ambient. Also if you charge more than two 0-80% DCFC in 24 hours it restricts the charging to less than 15kw. I've had it go down to 1kw on a dcfc at 50%SoC. If you turn on climate controls while charging, it won't ask for more power, it will reduce what goes into the battery. I could go on...
53 kwh for 140 miles is .379 kwh per mile. My S85D does 80 mph at .330 kwh per mile. The model S may not be as fast charging at DC fast charging stations, but it is still 15% more efficient per mile traveled.
There was another great video where the ?chief engineer? with EVGo was talking with TEV (YT video came out yesterday, I believe) He was discussing all the protocols the charger has to support and covered a little bit on plug and change. Main focus of the video is what all happens when you plug a CCS connector into a vehicle
i would like to see this test for the leaf and bolt. Though you might want a do a test using a 30minute charging session for those two cars in addition to the 15minutes you're currently doing.
Charge time should include the time to get charging started. If you spend a minute getting it starting to charge, that is a minute that should be removed from the 15 minute charge time.
Love the idea for this test since it’s meant to make an apples-to-apples comparison of miles per minute recovered by the car when stopping to charge during a road trip. However, the one thing that your test does not account for is the App hand shake and connection time before the car can actually start the charging. Even if that time is roughly just over 1 minute, that is 1 minute of waiting that is not needed in certain cars paired with a certain DC fast charger. This can easily amount to 10% + additional miles and potentially much more for the car that didn’t have to do the handshake while waiting for the car that did need to handshake. It might be good to at least keep track of the time needed for this initiation for each car you test and include this in your spreadsheet. People ultimately have to wait for both initiation and charging time. Further, wait time for initiation is more annoying than charging since you can’t walk away and do your business during that time. Thanks.
Kyle, I like this test format, and it would be interesting to do this test with your old Leaf. Thanks for letting us know this car has 21" wheels. It would be great if you would also show the tire make and model and exact size.
I think the taycan has a good highway efficiency due to it's good coefficient of drag when compared to others. By this reasoning, the ioniq 6 should be good on highways too
Great video and test but would it be better and totally comparable for other areas that have 70mph limit, to do it at 70mph? Or even do a repeat test for each car at 80 and 70?
I think this spec of Taycan is actually a pretty good deal. Porsche deserves a lot of credit for coming out with such a worthy EV so early.
I’m liking these 10% challenge videos
Thanks! I think it’s a great way to combine charging speeds and vehicle efficiency into one test.
@@KyleConner agree. It’s the way I road trip so nice to compare cars this way
These should be standard data points for selling EVs! This is real world stuff that's more important than battery size, real world charging speed is the real road trip data.
Love this too. Maybe after collecting a little more data, throw a google sheet in the description so people can quickly, and easily see and compare results (including handshake for fun … why not)
Thanks for all you do!
These have immediately become my favorite tests. Can't wait to see the Ioniq 6 take on this challenge.
Although I think "15 minute challenge" makes more sense but I'm not the expert lol
10% I think sounds more… dangerous… to the general EV viewer - ultimately it could have been called either but I went with 10%
Makes sense
@@KyleConnert keeps it more consistent. Id like the ring of on "E" challenge. That has more variability though. Maybe the next set of videos haha(when E light comes on)
I hope he does the rwd with SE rims.
I just completed my new Porsche questionnaire after buying my new Taycan 4 CT. When asked why I chose this vehicle, my answer was Out of Spec You Tube! Thank you guys, quality factual information.
@@vickykennel7414 $102k new, not $150k... Range is well over 250 miles.
@@vickykennel7414 EPA ratings for the Taycan versions are just CRAP, dude! EPA claims "only 230 miles" for the Taycan base version, but in reality the number is at nearly 300 miles! What about this, you clown????
The Porsche Taycans aren't made for "having the best range of all EVs", they are made for soulfully driving in the REAL WORLD.
And this "from 10% to 10% SoC with only 15 minutes of DC fast charging"-test shows me enough about the REAL WORLD capabilities of this EV!
Teslas just can't keep up with the Porsche Taycan when it comes to DC fast charging/roadtripping miles... in the REAL WORLD!
The EV Cannonball record with a Taycan shows it even more clearer.
The "pink Elon fantasy Tesla PR blah blah world" is just the world for idiots like you, dude! 🤣🤣😂😂
I effortlessly went from VA Beach to Summerville SC with an 18 min charge in between. We arrived at 8% SoT and barely had enough time to use the restroom and grab a quick bite to eat. That's why I opted for the 22 RWD Taycan, it's a cruising beast. An older couple charging their ID4 was shocked that I was leaving before then but arrived after. The map with the blue range outline was spot on, I love the visual feature. It's comfortable and basically drives itself on long trips with active lane keep and adaptive cruise control.
Have you had issues with fast-charging your Taycan? I hear all these horror stories about CCS chargers in the US, and I'm curious, since I've only owned a Tesla. Kyle, as we saw, had some mild issues with connectivity, but nothing really problematic.
@@coredumperror Zero issues with the Taycan but a few questionable reliability issues with Electrify America, it's getting better though. I've never been stuck on a long distance drive but the potential was there if multiple charges are down. Like many EV drivers 99% of my charging is done at home.
I think you meant to write "arrived after but left before"...
10%/15 minutes challenge is a fantastic idea for a test! 👍
Cool video Kyle I just charged my 2022 EV6 at an EA 150 kWh charger and pulled 173 kWh went from 18% to 80% in 18 minutes. I will be doing my own 15 minute charge challenge later this spring, again fun video to watch,thanks.
I was just thinking about doing the same, I may run it too. I have an EV6 longe range and have achieved 9-80% in just under 19 min, max at 234 kw. It would be hard to beat that Tesla but it could quite get close.
Spreadsheet suggestion: add a "Notes" column, where you'd put weather/wind info, and/or any other caveates.
Also, have a column that links to the video! :)
Very important. I’m currently on a cross country road trip from Cleveland, Ohio to Las Vegas in my etron GT and there was a stretch between Kansas City, MO and Colorado Springs that just destroyed my efficiency due to a really bad (20-30 mph) crosswind the whole way. It was sunny and perfect temp but that wind surprised me. Had to stop to charge more frequently than I originally planned. I usually get around 3.0-3.2 miles per kWh on the highway with good weather conditions but it dropped to 2.5-2.6 on that stretch.
When I fill up my car I usually wait till about 10% left before going to the gas station so it seems like a good number for comparing to a gas vehicle too. For road trips I'd want to stop every 2-3 hours regardless of what's fueling the car so this length of test could be comparable to many more cars as well.
Nice test! The Taycan has extra consumption but charges faster too... very good!
I think this is great road tripping channel, love it. Lets see how Ioniq 5 does, not so efficient on highway, but another charging rock star!
The most useful video I watched on UA-cam in quite a while. I'm looking forward to seeing that spreadsheet fill up. Thanks for all you do for the EV community Kyle.
Leaf 10% challenge: "We made it to the other side of the parking lot! Annnddddddd now we're heading back to the charger."
🤣 my life in a nutshell
I'm confused. When you charged the Model Y you sat in the car with HVAC running because you said that would best reflect a person on a road trip. But now you have the Taycan completely off while charging. Why the inconsistency?
Gotta make the CCS cars look better than Tesla to justify the CCS charging infrastructure
At 10:23 Kyle says the climate is running in the background
@@ObserverDingue correct, but he had it off for part of this test…
Hope to see ioniq 5 & 6 in these tests. This test helps see what to expect on long trips.
It should really be called the "15-minute charge challenge".
What about 15 from 10?
Different state of charges have Different results.
Maybe 15 minute charge from 10 percent challenge, but thats a long title. So this is the best one.
@@TotallyJoel I have to disagree. If someone sees the result of the 10% challenge was 148 miles. What are they going to think? Likely, that on a 100% charge you could go 1,480 miles... If you say the result of the 15 minute charge challenge is 148 miles, it just makes more sense.
Perhaps the 15-2-10 challenge - 15 min charging, 2 people, end at 10% SOC
Given some of the recent charging tests by Bjørn, the Model S plaid would probably crush it given the huge charging boost at low SoC and the insane efficiency of the motors.
Curious to see EQS 450+ as well, but the max charging rate of 200kW-ish might be a limiting factor.
I also feel the charging initiation time should be in the spreadsheet and contribute to final score. Charging for 15 minutes means nothing if I have to fiddle with handshakes, apps, registration, etc., with the exception being faulty chargers.
I think this test is one of the most important, if not THE most important test for people wading into the EV tech. I would like to see you slow down and explain why it's important, how it applies to common people rather than EV geeks, and how this information should be key when comparing cars to purchase. It's so good a test,if you can't convey the why of it and the usefulness of it to the ordinary new users of EVs someone else will take the lead and do it on another channel. Maybe have your wife interact with you when you dish out this great information. 👍👍👍
I have a Taycan GTS. I don't really care about a 15 minute test because it's not realistic, and it should also be presumed that with the dearth of chargers you will have to wait a while in many instances (especially here in Southern California). It has never been the case that when I charge from 10% to 85% that it takes less than 45 minutes, and it's not much faster with the 350 kWh chargers. All of the hype about the speed of charging a Taycan or any other EV is just that, hype that doesn't come from real world ownership.
It is a good test for road trip people. Pretty irrelevant to the rest of car buyers.
@@waltermyersiii I'm a 2020 Turbo driver, and I've put 28,000 miles on the car, including road trips up and down the west coast and across the US. I routinely get 5-80% in 22 minutes, and usually charge on longer road trips for about 15 minutes. Are you preconditioning for charge by setting the destination? Since the most recent update to the 2022 software, I'm finding that I'm almost always getting 265 kW+ when I plug in with less than about 40% SoC, but only if I've set the charger as a destination in the Tayacan's nav.
@@coyotegeek I have the updated software. I'm presuming you only get that at 350 kW chargers? There are very few here in the Irvine area. Only one within 10 miles. I noticed he's using EVGo whidh isn't free instead of the free EA. Is that because they have more chargers at 350 kW and deliver near what the Taycan will take? At the EA 150 kW chargers here, it has never been less than 40-45 minutes to get from 5-80%.
@@waltermyersiii You need a 350 kW charger to get the Tacans best charge speed. I don't think EVGo has more 350 kW chargers, in fact I think they have far fewer than EA. The reality is that EA builds 350 kW principally for what they call 'corridor charging,' which means along major interstate routes. Most of the suburban/city chargers have historically been 150 kW, though I've seen that change a bit lately here in the DC area.
Can vouch this is an amazing roadtrip car. Drive at 75mph instead of 80 and you extend the range and minimize the stops quite well. I also found the sweet spot of charging at 17 minutes which is close to 80% and the charging speed dropping below 125kw.
One tip to preserve battery, don’t put the car into range mode right after a DCFC. I believe the manual says to wait 20 min before doing so to allow airflow into the radiators/cooling system.
I agree. I also charged for about 18min. Never longer. That is enough to go to about 80%. 18min is also about the time we need to go to the restroom, get some drinks, stretch legs, update gps. So we aren't really waiting for the car.
I had an (older) model X before. Then I had to typically charge for 35min. Then I really had to wait.
The issue with MAC address authentication is randomization. I’m surprised more automakers aren’t randomizing the MAC addresses
This is a great new test format! The 10% 15 minute challenge is a very effective way to compare EVs...
The Taycan looks amazing in so many ways! The Porsche has to compensate for it's mediocre charging network vs Tesla, and it gives you a reason to consider it! But they really do Pay Wall the super high performance versions. The 4S looks like the best bang for the buck ( About 10.6 Quarter @ 130MPH) IMHO, but the Cross Turismo is tempting, too.
"... the Porsche has to compensate for its mediocre charging network vs. Tesla...."
Well, this isn't actually Porsches "fault", I would say...
Also Porsche doesn't have an "own charging network".
For example, here in Germany at superfast EnBW or Ionity DC fast charging stations, a Porsche Taycan will always be ahead and much faster charging than any Tesla can do at a "Tesla own" Supercharger.
By the way, Tesla / Supercharger is the only carmaker-exclusive charging network in the industry so far.
As a term, "Porsche has to compensate for its charging network", it's just totally wrong.
Greetings from Germany
"..., but the Cross Turismo is tempting, too".
Again, this is quite wrong, because the Cross Turismo is just the "station wagon" version of the Taycan and has nothing to do with "different battery specs or different engine power". Because these things are all the same for all three different (Taycan, Sport Turismo, Cross Turismo) Taycan body versions.
Great video and great idea for this series of videos. Makes a lot of sense to do this style because it approximates what we all do when road tripping EVs. One question I have is are you going to use the same exact charger with each test loop? I think EA and EVGo can be so variable with availability/usability/max speed. You are seeing optimal charge speeds with this test but having seen other non-Tesla EV videos I think the ideal experience is not always seen. Derated chargers can totally change the experience of road tripping and results of this test.
I said it last time too. I really like this test since many of my trips in my PHEV I plug in on little chargers if they are cheap or free and generally my washroom and snack breaks average about 12 minutes. 15 seems very reasonable for wait times.
I wish chargers were as consistent as your testing protocols. I might actually consider an EV if 350kw chargers were plentiful and actually worked.
Love this test! I just recently bought a model Y and I'm happy with it. But I was thinking about what was important in an EV I was realizing that the ability to fast charge and get you to the next way point seemed even more important than range and you are confirming my idea. Range is nice but I don't need 300 miles for a daily commute and even on a road trip 300 miles may only be good for the first stretch of the trip. So the ability to charge fast is really what makes an EV a viable option. Plug in hybrids are also a good idea but I think they need to be closer to 100 miles range on electric.
The problem with a long-electric-range PHEV is that all that battery weight (and expense) is dead weight once you switch over to gas. That means worse MPG on road trips, with little to no benefit around town, since most folks don't drive anywhere near 100 miles in a typical day. There are some people who have the perfect use pattern for such a vehicle, but probably not enough for it to be economical to produce.
Damn you can tell that Kyle is stoked to be driving the Taycan. A real treat for a car guy, much less an EV enthusiast. Super cool!!
I would think that the Electrify America stations will toss a monkey wrench in to it. Arriving with 10% at the EA station does not leave many options for a different one if the chargers are down.
In summary, EVs that charge fast are better at road-tripping.
In theory. In reality a good charging network weighs more for road tripping.
No car is better than the status of the network.
Other people have probably suggested this but I’m thinking an additional stat at the completion of the 10% test could be total average speed.
So for the Taycan would be 140 miles decided by speed (80) equals 1 3/4 hrs. Add 15 minutes of charging for total time, 2 hours for 140 miles.
Total average speed is 70 mph.
It helps compare the travel time to ICE cars with bottomless fuel tanks and owners who don’t need rest breaks.
Just sayin.
I agree with this philosophy. I sometimes drive 400 miles without stopping in my ICEV.
I feel like a prude, lowest I’ve ever gone in my Rivian was ~18%. I really take the, “keep the battery between 20-80%” religiously for long-term life of the battery.
Not only that, but range anxiety will keep most people like myself from letting a BEV go below 20% on a long road trip due to the unrelaible public-charging infrastructure. I'm not pulling into a public-charging station at 2% or 5% when I can't count on there being working chargers there, and where the next-nearest charging station might be well outside my range.
Love the colour of this Taycan porsche
2 hours as well which is just about right for taking a natural rest break. 15 min charge, 2 hr drive sounds perfect
Super impressive!! Also please do a big range of EVs, I would love to see the Bolt, Leaf, ID4 etc.
I wonder if the etron gt would have the same charging curve as well as battery degradation. Especially since the cars are pretty much the same.
I also think it's a good idea to do this on the ID.4, Pulsar and Mach E. These are cars that are within most budgets. Bolt and Leaf is just for fun times. But it's not a good idea.
This is my favorite test too! Awesome criteria👍 I'm looking forward to some of the more mainstream models like Ioniq 5. Also of course your dad's model 3. I think tracking the handshake time is critical because Tesla still nails that and would have been charging almost 3 mins longer when you came back to plug in.
Anna has a CCS dependent road-tripper. That's the fly in the ointment.
Maybe there should be a formula where you subtract charging time based on the amount of time it takes to start charging at a CCS charger, LOL. A Tesla would be several minutes ahead in charging time when the communication finally is finished with a CCS charger. For example, 3 minutes to communicate, then only 12 minutes allowed for charging.
I love the fact that you do this test and I love that Porsche did so well. Having said that, the even better new initiative you have started is reporting the status of charging stations. Unfortunately, I am not a Twitter member. Could you please provide a status of that at least every six months on You Tube so we can avoid the bad guys, go to the good guys and see the rate of improvement. Along with that it would be great if you could discuss the Non-Tesla charger rollout. Thanks
Yeah, I don't do Twitter or Instagram. I wish that Kyle would post more on "conventional" venues like FB. Instagram is a teanie venue, and Twitter is for weirdos or people obsessed with pop culture as far as I can see.
Really enjoyed this test. Love the looks of the Taycan.
I love this test. You should add a column to the spreadsheet for KWh added.
That car is just gorgeous!
13:45 the support strap on the charging cable is places exactly where it would keep the lowest point of the cable from touching the ground (and wearing thru).
Great content. I really want to see season two of the Vegas challenge. Can we bring that show back?
Dude! That car at 21:24 that ran that red! It was red for a while and he took that one! Lucky the other traffic barely began to move.
One second after red seems to be the new yellow light smh
I enjoy this new test & appreciate all the work you put into your videos Kyle. I've used the CCS adapter once on my MX & even not expecting much, using an EA charger was clunky & slow. It's just hard to not include the handshake, try again, & restart the app as part of a "real-world" test though. Maybe you could include the amount of time spent actually getting the charge to initiate in the table as well.
I get you're showing the best possible scenario but practically 25-30% of your 15 minute charge on public infrastructure just initiating the charge. Your dad's recent trip to Florida highlights how unlikely it is that you're going to get full charging speeds or fast handshakes from EA. I think Taycan is the most beautiful EV currently available though overpriced. But in the real world, it's going to take way more time getting the charge done more often than not. Someday I assume other chargers will figure it out or Superchargers will just totally take over charging infrastructure. But for the foreseeable future, it's way more reliable to stick with Tesla & know I can get 100 miles almost every time without fuss at a Supercharger!
3:54 wow check out how laggy the interface is in that car then look at teslas cars interface. Night and day.
This test is so awesome. It’s best for real world. Great idea out of spec team! Keep these coming.
Of course we want the old leaf! I am betting that it will take you 45 min or less to run the whole test, 15 min of charging followed by 30 min of driving (no more than 40 miles at 80 mph)... Here is a suggestion, if possible, at the end of a 10% challenge video let us know the next car you plan to test so we can put in our bets... my bet on the Leaf considering the condition of the battery is actually 35 miles at 80 mph after a 15 min charge.
Kyle you sell the Taycan really well , i wish i had Taycan money 😢
Shouldn't you start the 15 minute counter at plug in? If everyone is handicapped because of EA having a slow start, that should be considered in the test.
Absolutely. The total time to get your charge is what matters to the user.
I disagree. Hopefully, that will get sorted. We want to test the cars more than the chargers
I agree. The timer should start when you plug in. The handshake time should count because that is part of charging, and the time you will have to spend on a road trip
@@Canucker4Life but then what happens when EA gets their shit together. Kyle just has to redo all these tests?
How about split times? Sure, 15 minutes to charge but also whatever time it takes to initiate.
The only thing fairer I could consider would be "include all the charging prep-work in the 15 minutes" (fiddling with app, handshake, grabbing adapters, etc), but ... damn, that gets fiddlly/grey. That would require relevant cards for everyone/thing so it's not the cell phone's fault.... If Plug&Charge is slower, is it on you to know that and use a card instead, or ... ... ...
Seems not-tractable, so I think your current approach is good 'nuf.
I wanna see the model 3 lfp so badly lol
I really like your challenge. There are two ways to excel at this challenge though, charge rate or efficiency. As you get more cars, it will be useful if you included some way to determine at least one of those two, so that we can figure out why the Porsche beat the pants off of the Model Y. Was it mostly the average charge rate, or was it the efficiency at the speedy 80mph. The trucks are really going to pay for their brick shape at this speed. Something like total kWh added during the charge, or miles/kWh average for the test would be nice to include for comparison. Maybe these numbers aren't globally available for all cars. I tend to think that Porsche was likely better on both accounts on your test.
Nobody does testing procedures better than Kyle.
If you're counting actual time at charger, one should start the time as soon as you get out at the charger. As a Tesla owner, time it starts to charge at Supercharger vs other chargers can be several minutes upto 10 when you have to move to a unit that actually works. V3 SC in 10 minutes can do a lot of charge especially at low SOC. Just saying.
Wow, I just realized that I was not that far from you when you were running this test. Great video bud! Keep them coming.
Didnt you said with tesla y, that 15 min of charging will include charge negotiation also? If so you overcharged Tycan for over 40 seconds? :)
I'm REALLY curious how the new I6 is going to compare to this - just slightly lower top charging speed, but maybe its efficiency will get it to compare with the Tycan.
Still my dream car. Incredible design and looks 😍
We need more data in the result spreadsheet like End charge SOC, total KW delivered to car, weather,.........
In the spreadsheet you added, can you please add which type of charger you went with, and a link to each of their own video (probably with timestamps on the handshake part). Thank You
Good review Kyle. Be interested to see how the 2025 electric Cayman will do!
Impressive!
However, you're still at a huge disadvantage with charging stations, so this is the best case scenario and rare in 2023. There isn't even 50kW charging in some places in the US.
you should count the handshake time cuz thats a major issue on electric cars lol
Yup time should start imo from when he exits the car regardless of what car at what charger using what app. 15mins from leaving the seat to stopping the charge and leaving the station period.
But he knows this would favor the company that begins with a T ends with a A and has esl in the middle. 👍🏻
I will say the higher speed limit may make the larger SUV/truck vehicles with larger frontal area seem worse than they are for other areas of the country where 80 is not reasonable or legal when you're comparing to smaller cars.
Nice work! Glad you chose 10% for sot. That is until people get more confident
I'm waiting for the GV60 10% challenge... Love this car
Please do more of these! So much closer to real life and love seeing these videos. Nice job!!!!!
You should try to factor in the percentage benefit against vehicle cost. It's all very well having something faster than another but then at a hugely prohibitive cost for most, that's unattainable but interesting to play with.
Really like this test but feel like referencing the 15 minutes of charging time in the name would be helpful. Have you thought about referencing both the 10% start and 15m charging time, something like the 10/15 challenge or 10%/15m challenge?
This is a great test for road trips, I guess a test for just driving around town would be boring, but for 95% of the time that is what most of us do with our cars. Unless you have a job that keeps you on the road (and they don't give you a company car) road trips are infrequent.
I’m liking the 10 percent challenge. Look forward to when you get to comparing the ‘economy’ cars like the Bolt EUV & the Leaf.
If you use the same charging location and app then including the handshake/setup time would be fair as it would be the same across all CCS cars.
We can argue individual location or network issues, vs Tesla in terms of how much benefit do they really have, but it would at least recognise there is a benefit.
Wouldn't change the 1st place result of the Taycan (which given it's a 2wd low slung sports car vs a 4wd crossover at half the price really should win), but the deficit is not as much as shown in the real world.
The new bigger battery Taycan may use 10% less per mile, and charges a lot faster for a flatter curve. Could well achieve 15 minute near 300 kW average, say 70 kWh added. The air drag coefficient is down from 0.25 to 0.22 so that ought to translate to 10% lower highway consumption, or better, and then the motors and wiring and cells are probably a good bit more efficient as well.
Ov er 200 miles next?
Great new test Kyle!! Yep, I learned from you to roll in at 1-3% ... but I think this is a very fair test for us roadtrippers. The Tacan is very impressive ... just way too expensive.
Rolling in at 1-3% SoC is not realistic for most people; range anxiety is a very real thing when you cannot count on public-charging stations to work reliably, if at all.
Yeah, Kyle, this is a great test. Hope you test all the EV's you can!
Love these videos. Basically shows how good an EV would be at a cannonball. I bet the Ioniq 6 long range RWD with the small wheels will be able to beat this. Maybe beat everything. Would be interesting to see.
17 inch wheels?
@@samusaran7317 It comes with 18's usually, and 20's for the upper trim but those significantly hurt the range.
@@Snerdles I'm aware.
the Macan Electric will come out next year with > 100 kWh battery pack, and the Taycan will surely upgrade then to a similar-sized battery.
This works out to be 70 mph made good including stops, AAA surveys report an ICE average of 62 mph made good including stops. The miles made good test should also be included in measuring performance because it can be compared to ICE travel as well as other EVs. It can also be accurately obtained from the 10%-15 minute test. The hand shake must be included on both ends of the test however particularly when comparing against Teslas.
its great that it charges so fast in 15 mins but how often will you find a charger that is reliable? Model y charges slower but I know it will always work.
Should do Bolt and Nero to set the lower bound.
leaf
My bz4x would probably set the lowest bar.
@@TodDetre leaf charge slow to protect the battery. Maybe a spark ev could "win" ( with golf scoring)
@@kellyheath8547 you haven't seen some of the stupid things Toyota does. Charing is limited if the ambient temperature is low. Not battery temp. Ambient. Also if you charge more than two 0-80% DCFC in 24 hours it restricts the charging to less than 15kw. I've had it go down to 1kw on a dcfc at 50%SoC. If you turn on climate controls while charging, it won't ask for more power, it will reduce what goes into the battery. I could go on...
take a drink everytime a version of the word RIP is said.
Can't wait to see your real world range chart! Thanks for you tech ethics!
53 kwh for 140 miles is .379 kwh per mile. My S85D does 80 mph at .330 kwh per mile. The model S may not be as fast charging at DC fast charging stations, but it is still 15% more efficient per mile traveled.
Porsche Taycan, charging, ripping, smilling
Guys, I think Kyle secretly likes the Taycan.
I think he likes his girlfriend, it’s her car…
There was another great video where the ?chief engineer? with EVGo was talking with TEV (YT video came out yesterday, I believe) He was discussing all the protocols the charger has to support and covered a little bit on plug and change. Main focus of the video is what all happens when you plug a CCS connector into a vehicle
i would like to see this test for the leaf and bolt. Though you might want a do a test using a 30minute charging session for those two cars in addition to the 15minutes you're currently doing.
Nah, keep it 15 minutes just to show how pathetically slow they charge.
Great test. Please do add temp at start, mid and end of the trip. Outside temp is hugely influential to range.
Charge time should include the time to get charging started. If you spend a minute getting it starting to charge, that is a minute that should be removed from the 15 minute charge time.
Love the idea for this test since it’s meant to make an apples-to-apples comparison of miles per minute recovered by the car when stopping to charge during a road trip. However, the one thing that your test does not account for is the App hand shake and connection time before the car can actually start the charging. Even if that time is roughly just over 1 minute, that is 1 minute of waiting that is not needed in certain cars paired with a certain DC fast charger. This can easily amount to 10% + additional miles and potentially much more for the car that didn’t have to do the handshake while waiting for the car that did need to handshake. It might be good to at least keep track of the time needed for this initiation for each car you test and include this in your spreadsheet. People ultimately have to wait for both initiation and charging time. Further, wait time for initiation is more annoying than charging since you can’t walk away and do your business during that time. Thanks.
Meant to say apples-to-apples comparison of miles recovered in 15 min when stopping during a road trip.
Kyle, I like this test format, and it would be interesting to do this test with your old Leaf. Thanks for letting us know this car has 21" wheels. It would be great if you would also show the tire make and model and exact size.
Great test. Thank you! Please, add to the spreadsheet weather conditions during the test.
It would also be good to have a stat for cost per mile for each of these vehicles.
like Kris Rifa does
I think the taycan has a good highway efficiency due to it's good coefficient of drag when compared to others. By this reasoning, the ioniq 6 should be good on highways too
Lots is hype but not sure it deserves it!
Great video and test but would it be better and totally comparable for other areas that have 70mph limit, to do it at 70mph? Or even do a repeat test for each car at 80 and 70?
The lake keep and adaptive cruise display appears exactly the same as that in Lincoln’s.
So what was the total mileage at the end?
Given the Vegas 'race', i'd love to see the Ioniq 5
What was the EV rental company you mentioned? Arrow something?
only problem is reliability of non-tesla chargers for road trips. Hope EA will fix everything soon