Bought my Taycan at a depreciated price and I am happy and like other Taycan owners - we don’t care about depreciation if you’re keeping the car for 5 to 10 years. Great video! 🙌🏾
I have been the driver of a tacan 4S with 93kWh battery. I be had it since new and have just hit 66.000 miles I agree and understand all you have said but actually the car is far more versatile and practical then you would assume. It is a very comfortable drive with 4 large adults having plenty of room. In fact the back seats go flat and I can fit a large mountain e-bike in the back. It’s a great opportunity to grab an absolute bargain. It is bigger than the Marc EQC to mention just one. So at this price. The fact that the car is incredible (3 1/2 years on it still makes me smile every day. Charging was a little challenging in the first 2 years but now the network of ultra fast charging, it is more continent than a petrol or diesel. Happy to let you know more if you want. A great family car and luxury performance car all in one.
Thanks for the input - what about the recalls and maint issues with the battery, brakes, and steering - what has been your experience? I want one so bad but am concerned about the reliability and quality of build (ie recalls etc).
Such depreciation is not unusual. My SL63 was sold at £143K new in 2013, then sold at just over £80K only a year later. I bought it at £40K when it was 6 years old, with 25K miles on the clock. I guess the depreciation on the Taycan is discussed much more than other cars, just because of the big numbers they were sold in.
@@timrothwell33 some ice porsches increase in value, the macmaster said he made on one and lost a small amount on others, buton the taycan has lost 80k in a little over 2 years, he said he owes the finance company more than the car is worth, so he cant sell it or trade it in as he would have no money to put down on another ice porsche, reckons its the biggest mistake he ever made
Porsches, at least ICE powered ones, don't typically go into negative equity halfway through the payment plan. Cars typically come with a steep initial depreciation curve that smoothes out over time; something which hasn't been happening for EVs as much, esp. here in the UK, for all the reasons mentioned in the video.
@@debeeriz- the MacMaster videos can’t be trusted - everything he says is to grow his click-bait channel! Without his Taycan, he wouldn’t be able to make a living off UA-cam. ‘Biggest mistake’ 🤔🤣more likely, his most valuable purchase !
@@SDK2006b did you watch his trip around the continent with geoff, he said if the uk had the european charging network he could change his mind about the car
I am not in the market for a Taycan (ever) and no matter the list price new or the depreciation, you cannot deny it is just a beautiful car - a work of art.
Unexpectedly fantastic video, really in depth and holistic review of the market & trends in recent history. Best video on UA-cam I've seen on this topic.
I have now had my Taycan 4S for 3,5 years. Have loved every second driving it. Only issue has been the heater. I dont care shit about depreciation as I will keep it at least for 4,5 years more. It's the 2nd best car I have had since 1978 when I got my driving license (E92 M3 best). No extra costs apart from extending the warranty. Charge mostly at home, where I pay 9cnt per kWh. My credit card monthly bill used to be around 600 eur because of gas, now it's 100 eur. And it's one of the most beautiful cars out there. On top its fantastic to drive on countryside roads or in the mountains.
It's just the hype curve in action. The shine is off EV's. The danger is that people overreact on the downside. The Taycan is a good car and I'd love to have one. For full disclosure, I have a Tesla Model 3 LR and a Mustang GT 6 speed. Both are great.
not the shine though far more entries coming in, Tesla had the market for themselves for such a long time and now from legacy and of course china and especially Kia/Hyundai really making an impact and prices tstarting to come down, 18K for the Fiat Panda for example. The market its maturing now isn;t it and we can debate when sales of EV's reach the topping point. Look at UK and likely Labour will win and the 2030 target returns, thats only 5 years away really.
considering EVs are still in their toddler age compared to ICEs (disregarding early EVs that were not mass marketable), they have broken into the market in huge way and if you look at all relevant national markets, be it in the US, the EU and asian markets including China, it's clear that EVs market share will only increase and probably be the majority of new cars within the next 25 years, worldwide. While it is sub 10% in the US, whose people just love their oversized gas guzzlers, EV sales in China already have a 33% market share for light duty vehicles. Technology will move the goal post further, of course not on Elon Musk's projected time frame, but still. Batteries will be lighter, smaller, more capacity, charging infrastructre will improve and with that the last bastion of ICE cars, their range and perceived independence (due to gas station distribution and quick refilling), will fall. I dont think that's a hot take.
@@maxmeier532 nope it is not there is a threshold at which ICE becomes uneconomic and that is shorter than most think. Ie. I no longer buy petrol, 10% don;t in the UK and that will only grow as people see the benefits and buy second hand EV's once they trust it. With electric prices in UK possible set to decline as In the UK we elect a govt promoting green energy etc then the future is with us.
I can tell you why. The other day I had to help a friend who got stranded in a Taycan 4s, which showed 270 km range but still refused to move. It wouldn’t open the charge ports, nada. It’s 30k km. I can only imagine what happens down the road. And, yeah, he’s got warranty and now for the second time the car has been collected by a tow truck and two weeks in there’s no result. They say they need to change modules, update software, etc., but, honestly, they have no idea what’s wrong.
I've never understood why electric cars insist on basic functions like door handles and PARTICULARLY the charge port door being electrically actuated. What's the ONE THING you'd want to not need power? Imagine if you needed to supply fuel to the fuel fuller cap to get it to open!
@@p11v To be honest leaving aside the specific charge port issue - the design and execution of modern car electrical and electronics systems, software and coding, makes fault finding and rectification - difficult and expensive.
Thank you for this report. It is a top class summary of what has happened and what is happening. The most standard car journalists dont have a clue or dont bother/have the capacity to dig deep and analyze and connect the dots. Please keep us updating. I have subscribed. Good job. Thanks
Congratulations Martin. This is a fantastically researched and produced video. Just one comment regarding depreciation of EVs. The EV Z Mandate is putting considerable pressure on some manufacturers because of the need to ensure (this year but rising every year through to 2030) that the BEV proportion of their overall sales hits 22%. The penalty for not doing so is potentially a fine of £15,000 per car. Consequently there are a number of manufacturers are either discounting new EVs by huge amounts and/or offering extremely tempting finance deals. Manufacturers are also putting their dealers under pressure to help achieve their EV Z Mandate target by tying the availability of their in-demand desirable models. Dealers can be awash with stock that they have been “obliged” to take so have offer customer deals. For the first time Porsche dealers are having to play this game which has had the affect on used car values. The Taycan, being a high price saloon is an extreme example of how the market has really depressed used values and not as is often the case because it is intrinsically a poor vehicle, just a bit unfashionable.
well - this also tells us that nobody wants EVs really. They are a scam, pushed into the market by politicians, who entirely misunderstood Chinese-origin regulations for a rising market share - in China. Don't get me wrong - I am entirely for green energy generation - but the political push for BEVs is insanely wrong. We'd be much better off investing the EV related subsidies into additional solar & wind energy generation.
Agreed about the quality of this video, I’ve watched most of Martin’s videos about the i3 and bought one recently. His delivery and thoroughness is very helpful. I also find reading comments like your useful too 👍
I’ve got a 2020 Taycan Turbo S and I absolutely love it in every way. Gets attention everywhere I go and 95% of cars cant touch me. Prices are still in 6 figures for Turbo s
I was in the market for a new car in 2019 and decided to buy a hybrid plug-in. The electric range is about 30 miles which is enough for my daily commute and my gasoline mileage is about 55 miles/gallon. I filled my 10-gallon gas tank about once per month or once per two months. If I live in a city with good public transit, then I won't own a car. The car insurance in California this year has gone up 20% at least. If I do go for an electric car, it will be most likely to be a Tesla. I rented an electric car recently driving from Los Angeles to San Jose, a normal 6 hours' drive turning into 12 hours' drive since I had to stop by twice to charge and it's not compatible with Tesla's super chargers. That's a surprise for me.
Beginning of the year here in the USA, they added a used EV tax credit that EV's under 25K (pretax/VAT for eu heads) qualify for. You get a cool $4k back which means used Teslas are flooding the market to qualify. BTW amazing content my dude. Production value is really good.
I’m old enough to remember the hype around German convertibles/coupes where things like the BMW Z3 and Merc SLK had big waiting lists and people were buying them over list price. The same thing with early premium EV’s, there was way more demand than supply. These things always unwind and as you say things like Covid have skewed this further, but it’s inevitable supply catches up and prices drop substantially. Of course, all the EV-haters jump on this and say I told you so and it’s the end of the world, but it’s just business as usual.
Great video, thanks Martin. Beautiful cars. A Porsche Taycan owner that I met at the car wash loved it but said the real world mileage range was poor. So anyone going for a Taycan mark 1 in the used market will have to be comfortable with the fact they are going to get a substandard real world mileage range.
True. Based on what I gave experienced with them, you can expect between 200 and 250 miles of real-world range with the big battery, depending on the conditions and exact vehicle specification. So usable (with the fact charging), but definitely behind what Tesla achieved with the latest Model S. The latest Taycan facelift appears to be much better though.
The problem is that people expect cars to hold their value longer so they can sell them after 2 or 3 years to buy another car or an updated model. More and more people behave as if everything is disposable, due to lease and subscription models. People don't buy to own anymore. If you buy the new Taycan brand new from the dealer, you should get the extended warranty to cover you for at least 5 years. Just own the car for at least 5 years! Why throw it away after 2-3 years? Also, as far as I know, you can keep adding extended warranties after the initial 5 years (the car will need to pass inspection first). So you could potentially own a maxed-out Taycan, worry-free, for up to 8 years! After you pay off your car in, say, 4 years, you can enjoy owning an amazing car with very low monthly costs for the next 4 years! Keep in mind that EVs need very little maintenance, and the extended warranty covers anything that breaks.
fun fact 2020 taycan 4s msrp about 105k new, now most 65-70k 2020 panamera 4s msrp about 106k new, now most 70-75k that is, the depreciation is in the same ballpark
you just contradicted yourself, you said Taycan is in the ballpark of 65-70, and then after said panamera is in the ballpark 70-75. So clearly different ballparks.
@@blob2092 being anal for no good reason, I see. there is a range of used prices asked. I didn't calculated an average of all used cars on the market. Same ballpark means have overlapping price ranges. Around 70k in this specific case. Not like the panamera has 50-70% used residual value, and the taycan 25-30% like media want us to believe.
@@PEACEOUTXX1 dear simple mind, your claim is the actual BS. Unless, you make a comprehensive analysis of all used Pan/Tay nationwide for sale and all versions, and actual selling price. As a matter of fact, you can find a number of them at 70-75k same year and mileage, and same most common "4S" version. And all people, but you, will buy those offered at lower price, for same model and conditions
@@USUG0 well my mom is actually getting out of a 2023 panamera 4 e hybrid into a 2025 taycan 4s.. so we'll see how bad it depreciates. I love the taycan but I think it def doesn't hold value as well.
Anyway when you buy a car 99.99% of them are going to depreciate , every single mile is costing you money you will never get back . If you are worried about that then the car you bought is above your means , if not then you don’t care .
I enjoyed the video, there’s lots of thoughtful insight in it, thank you. Tesla is a common sight on the roads and I’m happy to see them. However, when I see a Taycan it’s an EVENT. My Summary: Buy the Porsche with your heart. - Find the best spec and price for you and make sure you have a long warranty!
@@f.kieranfinney457 200 is plenty, even if I don’t trust a dealer. How many times have you really travelled > 200 miles without a break? Charges fast and great on a road trip.
@@ObiePaddles I’m sure it’s more like 240. But I do stop around 270-300 obviously to fill my tank. But I don’t hang out. Our issue is lack of charge stations where we travel. Big detours, dodgy locations and SLOW chargers.
@@ObiePaddles I happen to think a car should work the way you want. We shouldn’t have to make big adjustments. I’d love a Taycan Sport Turismo. I could just about afford a used one. But unfortunately they don’t work the way I need them to. 230 claimed range is just not enough. And of course there’s the uncertainty of how long the battery will last and cost to replace.
In Northern Ireland 1 - 2 year old Vauxhall Mokka electric cars are around half price than that of new ones. Huge depreciation, and there are many such examples in other makes.
I didn’t want to name any names, but the entire Stellantis group is an example of how not to retail EVs. They were far too compromised for far too much money from the get go and I was told by multiple people it was easy to negotiate the price down. Hence you can’t really look at the current value compared to the MSRP. The group seems to have learned from their mistakes though. For example, Vauxhall reshuffled the trim levels of electric Corsas and Mokkas to bring them closer to the ICE counterparts. Citroen launched the very well received e-C3 focused on value for money, etc.
Great video. Macan EV is not offered as AWD standard now that the base trim level has been released. Initial launch was all AWD trims, but the Macan EV is standard RWD. At the time this video was made, his information was accurate.
Thanks for your clear explanation on Taycan depreciation. I agree that the Macan EV looks a very promising car and one I am considering when my existing lease expires in 2 years.
Here in ice cold Norway with long winters lot of people have learned the hard way that the battery in EV`s need to be heated to over +0c to be able to charge. That leads to that your car will not charge when it is cold and using a 16A home charger because ALL the electricity goes to only heat the battery. And even with 32A circuit home charger it only charges at half speed wasting half of the effect just to keep the battery warm.
Huh? I live in Sweden and we had long periods of around -20°C last winter. I had absolutely no problem at all charging my EV at home, while parked outside all night.
this weekend Tesla announced a new benefit for the Model Y. 6000,- euro discount on a pre-configured model Y. that makes the model Y now around 39000 euro, new....
Thanks for your video and the open mind. Small correction: The first Gen. Taycan only supports 270kW on a 350kW charger. The 2. Gen now is up to 320kW which is crazy 😄
The first time I saw one was in France, on a motorway, doing 60mph in the slow lane. I can only imagine there were no charging stations nearby and they were driving under range anxiety. I love the Taycan, especially the Turismo version, but it’s unsuitable for the intended purpose.
I drive 60-65 most of the time, what’s wrong with that? Chilled driving is much more relaxing and enjoyable. If I’m in a nice car, why do I want to make the journey quicker?
@@RealElectech en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoroutes_of_France. They're not to be confused with autoroute trolls, those live in the woods near the stopping places.
The past couple of years have been a steep learning curve for me as somebody who likes to buy outright and change relatively frequently, not a very good idea financially at the best of times. Your analysis makes total sense of why we are where we are, it seems obvious now, got carried away at the time. I wasn't in the Taycan league, but in 2021 buying a new EV (VW ID.3) was actually cheaper than getting a nearly new one and they actually went up in value making trading in for another new car a few months later (Cupra Born) a surreal experience. It couldn't last and even though I didn't lose much on the Cupra selling it back to the dealer just before things went south, the Tesla I bought new just after the price cuts a year ago has depreciated 30% and the Mini Electric I got 2 years ago 50%. Need to keep them for a while yet and go PCP next time I think.
Good video Martin, thanks. There is one more thing you need to add though. It's the change in car companies' incentives. They are changing at fast pace in favour of ICE. Companies are sneaky and started to cut promos for EVs and add some for ICE seeing that by changing a consumer perception they may later tell the green governments "you can't stop ICE by xxxx because people don't want them". Look for a report from Carsmile, a big car rental/leasing company in Central Europe who highlighted this strategy recently.
Very informative, structured and interesting video. Applies equally in other EU markets. Taycan is on my short list. Still in my second I3 but it is perhaps the best daily next to the 718 Spyder.
Short answer "Because it was stupidly expensive in the first place!" Look, I overpaid for my humble Kia e-Niro back in 2019 as compared to equivalent sized ICE cars at the time. The price gap has closed a bit but EVs are more expensive than they should be given that battery prices have plummeted since 2019. Having said that I have saved over €10,000 during 106,000 km on fuel and another €1,500 on servicing (oil changes are such a big chunk of new/nearly new servicing costs)...And brakes? By this time an ICE car would have needed both front and back pads and discs...average cost in the UK I've Googles is over £500 (I live in France so have lost touch a bit with costs over there). As new car prices converge between EVs and ICE the transition to EVs will accelerate quicker than a Taycan. 😊
Dealers can't give EV's away in the UK & used prices have collapsed. Many people are reluctant to own a 2 or 3 year old battery. Brand new, EV's are beyond the reach of most & the charging infrastructure is still poor. It would probably take a day to drive from London to the Lake District. However, they make great little about town, run arounds. I expect the Labour government to force ICE cars off the roads within a few years & then I would have to consider an EV. I would expect a scrappage scheme of at least £10,000 & the national grid to collapse as we all plug our devices in.
@@kyang162 Just checked on the used car websites here in France where I live. The e-Niro is typically fetching €3K to €5k more than the equivalent Niro hybrid of same age and km. Expensive insurance? This seems to be a UK/USA thing, why you pay a premium for an EV which has fewer parts than an ICE?...I really don't know. I asked about this when I got the car in 2019 as my insurance hardly went up at all when I got the car. I went from a 10 year old Prius to a brand new EV. Right now I am paying €43 a month, it has gone up with inflation since 2019.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 Parts are difficult to get and any repair becomes super expensive. They are also heavier and does more damage in accidents.
@@kyang162 Where have you heard that? Heaviest cars on the roads here in Europe are Range Rovers, Mercs, BMWs etc. All ICE cars. So much negative nonsense in the media about EVs. I know what I know from experience and you just can't argue with that.
It's really easy to understand. Buying a Taycan and EVs in general is like buying an iPhone. One year later, there's a new iPhone out, with better battery, faster charging, brighter screen, more responsive, etc..and this applies to the Taycan, people were paying $25-$30k over MSRP in 2020, flash forward to 2025 model and it's got improved range, charging, better screen, more responsive, better suspension, interface, etc...this is why I am still sticking with my 991.2 Turbo S, it's an analog car.
@@bigdougscommentary5719 ICE is superior technology, you are just revealing the tendency of EV fanatics to cling to ideological bullshit rather than practical reality. The ICE can be worked on by a local mechanic and can run quite happily for hundreds of thousands of miles with minimal loss in performance or range, in any weather condition. EV batteries are completely disposable (ironic considering their "climate change" marketing) and EV buyers like @hieuluu2 treat them like disposable gadgets, like phones. EV demand is generally driven by government subsidies and taxes, rather than real market forces, which is never good either. I expect the EV fad to die in the next 10 years, there are already better technologies around.
One trend that you see amongst all vehicles, the more overpriced they are when new, the faster they depreciate. EVs are a different animal altogether, though. Governments are pushing manufacturers to produce EVs when consumers are not ready for adoption. Instead, customer demand should always drive production. The Apple strategy of ‘telling the consumer what they want, because they don’t actually know what they want’ doesn’t work in every industry. Then factor in the impracticality of driving an EV. Range, charging times, charging costs, finding charging stations while away from home, etc.
The high depreciation does not appear to be being fed through to the 2nd hand forecourts in UK. If it ever is fed through then I will be interested. This also applies to virtually every used ev IMHO
All German luxury cars sold above 100k new depreciate more than 25% first year (yeah ok except the 911s), some do hit 40% from sticker 1st year. But rare are the poor ones purchasing them at sticker price (at least in western Europe), that is explaining the spectacular 1st year value loss. It shall be compared to actual paid price, which can only be estimated as this kind of data is unfortunately never public.
The biggest problem with used high end EVs is going to be when they are out of manufacturer's warranty not so much for the battery but all the other very complex and expensive parts that could fail. Also new sales of EVs like the Macan are going to get hit when tax incentives get reduced over the next few years.
I fiercely plan on buying a used Taycan Sport Turismo in about 3 years (the facelift) but hopefully for about 50k i think it's the closest i might EVER get to drive and own a Porsche we'll see
Wait til the Chinese EV's ( even with increased tariffs ) come in and eat everybody's lunch. Then the real depreciation will begin. Scary times ahead in the next 5 years.
Scary times or exciting times, depending on how you look at it. The auto industry has been absolutely stagnant for decades, with just incremental improvements between model generations. Electrification and new technology is finally shaking things up. And more competition in the market is always a good thing for the customer.
Cars are just too expensive for most people to make a gamble on quality and especially if there are no dealers around. There are loads of people that bought some off brand car to find out that the brand left the European market and you can't get parts anymore, landewind is a good example. It is fine to buy a bike or a phone from some weird brand, for a car you want to have the guarantee that at least parts stay available.
Their is one thing you don't seem aware of. These cars are not very popular but their is massive capacity and as such Porsche use these as bargaining chips to get a slot for more popular cars like the RS3. Simply put, it not uncommon to be offered a build slot on a rs3 in exchange for buying 5 or 6 Porsche EV you don't want so "they can get to know you" Needless to say, these go straight into used car inventory driving down prices
Great job explaining the broader market drivers that apply to EVs. I think another factor you didn’t touch is the rapid technical innovation (better range and faster charging) that more and more new models are offering.
The technology is definitely evolving and competition is driving down prices - especially at the entry level. However, even the first generation Taycan is still one of the fastest charging EVs out there and unless you go for the smallest battery, the range is just about average, so not sure how much of an impact that has. I am sure Porsche would have made some in-depth customer surveys but will want to keep the results secret.
Bought a Toyota Aygo 8k 5 years ago, it's still worth 8k. Replacing the car battery lead acid battery costs 2k on a Tycan £60 Aygo by the way its viewed as a consumable it's outside of the warranty by Porsche. Look i know what your going to say an Aygo isn't a Porche and yes I know I agree, and I've loved my Porsches but as we know Porsche engineering is no where near the quality of Toyota its why older porches need a lot a lot of love, the Boxster I had wasn't to bad to fix admittedly build quality was ok ish but no where up with Toyota levels so it went wrong quite a lot but my independent porsche specialist did a great job. Taycan yeah ... well ummmm. ... like all electric cars ... oh dear ... no independents ... ooohhh .,, yeahh that isn't great prepare yourself for financial ruination should you wish to get a repair done, hence second hand is more of a challenge to sell.
I bought my M3 RWD at the wrong time, but i also got a good price for my part exchange vehicle, i had always intended keeping my car for quite a few years so the depreciation is not such a big issue for me as you identified although it was pretty annoying that Tesla did the price cuts in the way they did.
Another fantastic video - informative, succinct and insightful. Really loving your channel. Thank you. Maybe you could do a video on the UK ZEV mandate- I know a lot of people trying to determine when is the right time to make the jump to EV and an awareness of ZEV mandate could help them make an informed decision.
Heard of one Taycan that hit some road debris. Seemed ok immediately afterward but then few days later wouldn't charge at all. Turned out the battery pack was damaged and the car was written off. Bill for new battery was £50k or so according to the story i read. So no thank you . Ouch
@@angleseyandy9110 It takes 10 seconds to plug a car in. In the UK, we spend 597 hours driving on average per year. That means a car is parked up for 8,163 hours a year. So why can’t it be plugged in for some of that time if it’s not doing anything anyways? 8,000 hours of charging time is enough to get approximately 64,000 miles of range. That’s over 8 times the average annual mileage. All using the slowest charging method possible. 🤷♂️
I wanted to drive one back when they were launched. Because of the slow rollout, the dealer never had any to demo. Eventually once the supply chain issues were solved, the very high defect rates of the Taycan batteries caused me to take the Porsche off the list. Plus, while I may be able to stomach the absurd prices and option costs of a 911, I have no tolerance for that kind of nonsense with a Taycan or Macan. A 911 is an heirloom item that you dream about and keep forever, while an SUV or EV aren't.
The target audience is business owners, who buy through salary sacrifice, sell at the end of the lease, and save the exact amount in depreciation, meaning they drive a brand-new Porsche for three years for free.
Martin, this is exactly what many people need, advice on used cars flavoured with technical and performance related considerations. I’m 65 now and recently bought a pristine 2019 i3S for circa £15k. Apart from two occasions, when I bought a brand new fully loaded 7 series V8 and a convertible 3 series, I bought all my cars after at least 50% of the depreciation had been knocked off the price. My policy has been to lessen the purchase costs by embracing depreciation. Lastly, I’d pay a subscription to watch explanatory videos on long term i3 ownership tips, tricks and maintenance advice. I think many people would. I’d also pay handsomely for real-time assistance using FaceTime. Going to send this to my daughter as I’d previously recommended she bought an Etron (wagon) as the one-sided worry about range makes it brilliant value right now and she, like many, don’t go on regular road trips, so 180 real-world miles is perfectly adequate. Thanks for taking so time and trouble over this video. Cheers Geoff
The problem with the first electric cars, is that they were like the first pentium computers. Touted as the most advance things. But in reality by next year, it’s out of date 😊and it’s replaced by something that’s faster better more efficient and cheaper. Difference with ice cars is that ice cars get more expensive every year but electric cars get cheaper which gives secondhand prices much more pressure
The model is designed to make profit on brand new PCP or sell. After a few years resell and gain something from there. Great deal for VW bad for the user. It is only for people with quite a lot of money to burn. The issue the gap between that people and the next layer. That is why its depreciation is massive. Not to mention battery pack replacement
I’m just giving you factual information do with it what you will…… there are 2013 and 2014 Tesla model S vehicles running around with 250 K for miles that have about 10% degradation … this is factual 👍 plenty of battery life left all good
EV can never have the resale value as ICE cars. With time battery life goes down and battery replacement is more than half the value of the car. So with EVs don’t talk about resale value and hence depreciation.
My view is buy the last generation ICE Macan. Like high end watches, they will increase in value when production stops. The average EV owner will be thinking of going back to ICE but the used car market will be the only option. Hence demand increases but no chance of additional supply.
The Porsche Taycan drives beautifully but it was inefficient and was far too expensive. Now that the 2024 Taycan is out with its much longer range and better efficiency. It means that the old MK1 is even further out of date.
It's a Porsche, of course it's unjustifiably expensive. That's not a bug, that's a feature. People who buy them, buy them because they are unreasonably expensive for what you get. They are glorified Volkswagen/ Audi. The Taycan is basically identical to the respective Audi. People who buy Porsche, buy Rolex for the same reason.
My 2021 4S gives me 480 km range in the summer. I really dont need anything more than that. It's expensive to buy yes, but to run it costs many times less as its ICE counterparts like an BMW M3 or 911.
Your boss isn't Richard is he? The problem for the Taycan as well now will be the Model 3 Performance finally coming and, of course, the brilliant Ioniq 5 N at £60k and £65k!
The bottom line is if you lease a car and you can afford the repayments the depreciation is completely irrelevant its the finance company's problem not yours.
The lease price is affected by the rate of depreciation -+- the finance company looks at expected depreciation and maintenance costs as well as interest rates as the primary determinants of lease rates.
When depreciation rates are average, in financial aspects it's usually always more efficient to buy and own the car, then resell it after a few years. I dont know how it is specifically for the Taycan. But obviously leasing offering companies are not stupid. They calculate leasing rates to be above what the comparable depreciation is, because they want to sell the car after it's returned.
The Porsche Taycan is too expensive and too small for what it is, it's a fine EV, but 100k EVs are selling like hotcakes, hence, why you see Tesla, Lucid, and others cutting pricing and/or offering crazy lease deals, we still need more Level 3 chargers
There is two types of Porsche buyers: for the first group, 200k is not a lot of money. They make money like that in 6 to 24 months. For the second group, they finance the car to look like they belong in the first group.
I went to visit Porsche when the TAYCAN came out. I assumed it would be the same size as the Panamera. I was wrong. I couldn’t even get into the TAYCAN. These things are not fit for big men or tall men. I am much happier with my Cadillac LYRIQ all-wheel-drive 500 hp.
@@peterhammer6915 Tesla sells more cars every year without advertising. They are the safest cars on the planet. Fast, effortless acceleration, handle well and you can get groceries in them. I'm in my late 50's and have driven a lot of cars. I can also afford anything I want. Tesla is making a solid car and I love mine. They are reinventing automotive manufacturing. You need to get use to Tesla's being around. Cheapest solution always wins.
EVs are now truly mainstream - they depreciate like everything else does! This is the least big shock ever, was just the oddity of EVs getting popular in covid where normal car economics went crazy. Really clear and open video. Thanks.
To be honest I don't get it why most EVs don't appreciate much quicker. The old crap with questionable battery status after 5 years should be next to worthless.
the sensible buyer goes for used ones under warranty, which deletes all worries about battery. that's more or less a must for anyone who buys an EV, new or used. It's just too expensive to fix.
You did a better, more factual explanation than Carwow did on the same topic. I do think a better comparison would have been to compare the Taycan with an ICE luxury performance car like the Panamera. A lot of the narrative is about EV depreciation. The real story seems to be much more that buying European luxury cars are a bad financial decision.
Thanks! This was my original idea but there are not enough Panameras (which is the most comparable car to the Taycan) on the market. Porsche also seems to have completely revamped the entire trim / drivetrain lineup for the Panamera making it even more difficult to estimate the real depreciation.
It’s a Porsche shaped battery car. It’s not a 911 EV, doesn’t handle like a Porsche with an engine and is worth the same as a Model 3, Enyaq iv etc etc
you are wrong on every count. It handles exactly like a Porsche and its faster out of the corners than a 911. You have to break more coming in but that's only fun. A model 3 performance is worth about half of the price of a Taycan.
@@LysanderLH Have you driven one on track? It's incredibly good. I compare to my earlier cars like E92 M3 or F80 M3. On the same track I have also driven several 911:s. Yes, a base, S or GTS does handle better because of weight but the difference isn't that big.
@@peterhammer6915 I haven’t tracked a Taycan and while I doubt it’s rubbish, I would always choose a 911 or even a Boxter for that matter over a Taycan. VAG are suffering the slings and arrows of the new world of EVs and until batteries lose weight and physical size, for us spirited drivers, they’ll be fast and heavy cars. My diesel manual Peugeot Rifter is much more easily balanced and corners better and faster on roads than my Model 3, which makes it a more interesting drive.
@@LysanderLH I always wanted a 911 but failed every time because it only has 2+2 seats. A Boxer doesn't have even that. I believe you on the Peugeot vs Tesla. The Model 3 is astonishing bad on curves. The perf has great acceleration but when you have to turn the steering wheel, things get ugly. I consider myself as a spirited driver, have owned many BMW M:s in the past. The Taycan is the 2nd most fun car on curvy roads after my E92 M3. I owned 14 BMW:s before I switched to Taycan.
I really wonder what happens in the UK in a couple of years when the ZEV mandate really bites. I assume Porsche can fold in under the VW group and they will launch a mickey mouse ID less than 3 (e.g. less than 50KWh, full stripped of any options, etc) like the Dacia EV or the Citroen C3e. Also Porsche has also removed its best selling ICE car (original Macan)
@@johndinsdale1707 really? You wonder what will happen? People will continue to buy cars. But they will be second had ice cars. Yes there will still be a few wanting to pretend they're in a status symbol EV but those numbers dwindle as they finally realise their folly or are unable to recoup anything on their EV.
The Taycan was a victim of its own success when launched. Nothing wrong with the car. It’s was just overpriced to start with and now market values are more realistic for a mass produced sports car. Great car for anyone buying it second hand.
Porsche being Porsche... they were too greedy. Their rich buyers were falling over themselves to buy a Taycan, pumping up the asking price. Then Porsche didn't move the technology forward. Charging infrastructure is NOT the problem. Limited range from its massive battery. Means that everyone else caught Porsche and overtook them. Look at the Hyundai N series, already as fast as Porsche yet half the money.
There are important issues that also need to be raised. Firstly, EVs are very far from being ecological. Let's not forget the embodied CO2 which penalises EVs over ICEs for at least 60,000 miles. Secondly, no EVs can be described as light. This saps their real life range and recharging (away from home) is way more expensive than it should be. The current range of EVs is also reliant on 1990s spec computer batteries. Thirdly, battery life is the known unknown. These are portable computer batteries. None last for more than 5 years. Perhaps a video on battery replacement costs would be useful. Just how much is a battery change on a Porsche. Battery material sourcing and recycling are also in the dieselgate category of dark arts. Many folks like myself prefer to have an old car for occasional use (but certainly not a Mom truck), a bicycle for everyday journeys under 30 miles (and to keep fit) or to use public transport. Why even bother wasting money on an EV?
@@NapoleonDynamyte and oversupply due to the huge number of 3yr old fleet supply hitting the market. They'll be paying you to take them in the next 5 years.
Still can't find a Taycan under $50k, most at $70k. Depreciation yes, but they were absurdly overpriced to begin with.
Thats no true. Lots of Taycans around £45K mark. Also depends if you want the 4S model with 4 wheel driver or less powerful 2 wheel drive
@@bekindandmerciful5145 £45K = $58k USD
@@bekindandmerciful5145I think you guys are talking different currencies on different continents.
In the US there are around 60K right now. Probably 50Ks next year.
@@sog1272maybe a 2020 rwd😂
Bought my Taycan at a depreciated price and I am happy and like other Taycan owners - we don’t care about depreciation if you’re keeping the car for 5 to 10 years. Great video! 🙌🏾
Definitely seems like the right way to do it.
5 years with a Taycan? That will mean at least 10 months of total Porsche Service time in the best case.
@@pt08880 are you an owner?
@@pt08880nonsense. I’ve owned mine for 18 months and it’s only spent 5 hours in service for its 20k mile service.
@pt08880 Nah, a lot less moving parts than an ICE car.
I have been the driver of a tacan 4S with 93kWh battery. I be had it since new and have just hit 66.000 miles I agree and understand all you have said but actually the car is far more versatile and practical then you would assume. It is a very comfortable drive with 4 large adults having plenty of room. In fact the back seats go flat and I can fit a large mountain e-bike in the back. It’s a great opportunity to grab an absolute bargain. It is bigger than the Marc EQC to mention just one. So at this price. The fact that the car is incredible (3 1/2 years on it still makes me smile every day. Charging was a little challenging in the first 2 years but now the network of ultra fast charging, it is more continent than a petrol or diesel. Happy to let you know more if you want. A great family car and luxury performance car all in one.
I got also one. I love it. But have a problem with 12V batteries. 🪫. Did you had some issues? Thanks
Thanks for the input - what about the recalls and maint issues with the battery, brakes, and steering - what has been your experience? I want one so bad but am concerned about the reliability and quality of build (ie recalls etc).
I would also like to hear more about issues/recalls you have had in the 3,5 years of owning it. Do you have the sport or turismo version?
Such depreciation is not unusual. My SL63 was sold at £143K new in 2013, then sold at just over £80K only a year later. I bought it at £40K when it was 6 years old, with 25K miles on the clock.
I guess the depreciation on the Taycan is discussed much more than other cars, just because of the big numbers they were sold in.
.......and because it's an EV so gets way more focus than if it had been an ICE Porsche
@@timrothwell33 some ice porsches increase in value, the macmaster said he made on one and lost a small amount on others, buton the taycan has lost 80k in a little over 2 years, he said he owes the finance company more than the car is worth, so he cant sell it or trade it in as he would have no money to put down on another ice porsche, reckons its the biggest mistake he ever made
Porsches, at least ICE powered ones, don't typically go into negative equity halfway through the payment plan. Cars typically come with a steep initial depreciation curve that smoothes out over time; something which hasn't been happening for EVs as much, esp. here in the UK, for all the reasons mentioned in the video.
@@debeeriz- the MacMaster videos can’t be trusted - everything he says is to grow his click-bait channel!
Without his Taycan, he wouldn’t be able to make a living off UA-cam. ‘Biggest mistake’ 🤔🤣more likely, his most valuable purchase !
@@SDK2006b did you watch his trip around the continent with geoff, he said if the uk had the european charging network he could change his mind about the car
I am not in the market for a Taycan (ever) and no matter the list price new or the depreciation, you cannot deny it is just a beautiful car - a work of art.
I bought a used (CPO) Taycan Cross Turismo for the same reasons you mention. I didn’t want a SUV. Great value for money.
Unexpectedly fantastic video, really in depth and holistic review of the market & trends in recent history. Best video on UA-cam I've seen on this topic.
I have now had my Taycan 4S for 3,5 years. Have loved every second driving it. Only issue has been the heater. I dont care shit about depreciation as I will keep it at least for 4,5 years more. It's the 2nd best car I have had since 1978 when I got my driving license (E92 M3 best).
No extra costs apart from extending the warranty. Charge mostly at home, where I pay 9cnt per kWh. My credit card monthly bill used to be around 600 eur because of gas, now it's 100 eur.
And it's one of the most beautiful cars out there. On top its fantastic to drive on countryside roads or in the mountains.
It's just the hype curve in action. The shine is off EV's. The danger is that people overreact on the downside. The Taycan is a good car and I'd love to have one. For full disclosure, I have a Tesla Model 3 LR and a Mustang GT 6 speed. Both are great.
Valid
the question is who wouldn't love to have a Taycan? they probably handle like a dream
not the shine though far more entries coming in, Tesla had the market for themselves for such a long time and now from legacy and of course china and especially Kia/Hyundai really making an impact and prices tstarting to come down, 18K for the Fiat Panda for example. The market its maturing now isn;t it and we can debate when sales of EV's reach the topping point. Look at UK and likely Labour will win and the 2030 target returns, thats only 5 years away really.
considering EVs are still in their toddler age compared to ICEs (disregarding early EVs that were not mass marketable), they have broken into the market in huge way and if you look at all relevant national markets, be it in the US, the EU and asian markets including China, it's clear that EVs market share will only increase and probably be the majority of new cars within the next 25 years, worldwide. While it is sub 10% in the US, whose people just love their oversized gas guzzlers, EV sales in China already have a 33% market share for light duty vehicles. Technology will move the goal post further, of course not on Elon Musk's projected time frame, but still. Batteries will be lighter, smaller, more capacity, charging infrastructre will improve and with that the last bastion of ICE cars, their range and perceived independence (due to gas station distribution and quick refilling), will fall. I dont think that's a hot take.
@@maxmeier532 nope it is not there is a threshold at which ICE becomes uneconomic and that is shorter than most think. Ie. I no longer buy petrol, 10% don;t in the UK and that will only grow as people see the benefits and buy second hand EV's once they trust it. With electric prices in UK possible set to decline as In the UK we elect a govt promoting green energy etc then the future is with us.
I can tell you why. The other day I had to help a friend who got stranded in a Taycan 4s, which showed 270 km range but still refused to move. It wouldn’t open the charge ports, nada. It’s 30k km. I can only imagine what happens down the road. And, yeah, he’s got warranty and now for the second time the car has been collected by a tow truck and two weeks in there’s no result. They say they need to change modules, update software, etc., but, honestly, they have no idea what’s wrong.
I've never understood why electric cars insist on basic functions like door handles and PARTICULARLY the charge port door being electrically actuated.
What's the ONE THING you'd want to not need power?
Imagine if you needed to supply fuel to the fuel fuller cap to get it to open!
Aux issues
@@p11v To be honest leaving aside the specific charge port issue - the design and execution of modern car electrical and electronics systems, software and coding, makes fault finding and rectification - difficult and expensive.
Ja, this never ever happened with any combusting engine car :-))). Only with BMWs we possesed three times in the last 15 years...
@@C.I... I know teslas have a latch that open the charge port from inside. No power needed in case of an emergency.
Thank you for this report. It is a top class summary of what has happened and what is happening. The most standard car journalists dont have a clue or dont bother/have the capacity to dig deep and analyze and connect the dots. Please keep us updating. I have subscribed. Good job. Thanks
Thanks for the kind words!
Congratulations Martin. This is a fantastically researched and produced video. Just one comment regarding depreciation of EVs. The EV Z Mandate is putting considerable pressure on some manufacturers because of the need to ensure (this year but rising every year through to 2030) that the BEV proportion of their overall sales hits 22%. The penalty for not doing so is potentially a fine of £15,000 per car. Consequently there are a number of manufacturers are either discounting new EVs by huge amounts and/or offering extremely tempting finance deals. Manufacturers are also putting their dealers under pressure to help achieve their EV Z Mandate target by tying the availability of their in-demand desirable models. Dealers can be awash with stock that they have been “obliged” to take so have offer customer deals. For the first time Porsche dealers are having to play this game which has had the affect on used car values. The Taycan, being a high price saloon is an extreme example of how the market has really depressed used values and not as is often the case because it is intrinsically a poor vehicle, just a bit unfashionable.
well - this also tells us that nobody wants EVs really. They are a scam, pushed into the market by politicians, who entirely misunderstood Chinese-origin regulations for a rising market share - in China. Don't get me wrong - I am entirely for green energy generation - but the political push for BEVs is insanely wrong. We'd be much better off investing the EV related subsidies into additional solar & wind energy generation.
Agreed about the quality of this video, I’ve watched most of Martin’s videos about the i3 and bought one recently. His delivery and thoroughness is very helpful. I also find reading comments like your useful too 👍
I’ve got a 2020 Taycan Turbo S and I absolutely love it in every way. Gets attention everywhere I go and 95% of cars cant touch me. Prices are still in 6 figures for Turbo s
Turbo S is the dream. Enjoy it!
@@MartinKarel thank you so much.
Model 3 Performance can keep up
How often do you speed excessively?
More like 99.9% cars can't touch you.
I was in the market for a new car in 2019 and decided to buy a hybrid plug-in. The electric range is about 30 miles which is enough for my daily commute and my gasoline mileage is about 55 miles/gallon. I filled my 10-gallon gas tank about once per month or once per two months. If I live in a city with good public transit, then I won't own a car. The car insurance in California this year has gone up 20% at least. If I do go for an electric car, it will be most likely to be a Tesla. I rented an electric car recently driving from Los Angeles to San Jose, a normal 6 hours' drive turning into 12 hours' drive since I had to stop by twice to charge and it's not compatible with Tesla's super chargers. That's a surprise for me.
Beginning of the year here in the USA, they added a used EV tax credit that EV's under 25K (pretax/VAT for eu heads) qualify for. You get a cool $4k back which means used Teslas are flooding the market to qualify. BTW amazing content my dude. Production value is really good.
I’m old enough to remember the hype around German convertibles/coupes where things like the BMW Z3 and Merc SLK had big waiting lists and people were buying them over list price. The same thing with early premium EV’s, there was way more demand than supply.
These things always unwind and as you say things like Covid have skewed this further, but it’s inevitable supply catches up and prices drop substantially. Of course, all the EV-haters jump on this and say I told you so and it’s the end of the world, but it’s just business as usual.
A 24 minute video which did not even answered the question in the title. I expected price examples for TAYCAN not a history lesson.
Great video, thanks Martin. Beautiful cars. A Porsche Taycan owner that I met at the car wash loved it but said the real world mileage range was poor. So anyone going for a Taycan mark 1 in the used market will have to be comfortable with the fact they are going to get a substandard real world mileage range.
True. Based on what I gave experienced with them, you can expect between 200 and 250 miles of real-world range with the big battery, depending on the conditions and exact vehicle specification.
So usable (with the fact charging), but definitely behind what Tesla achieved with the latest Model S.
The latest Taycan facelift appears to be much better though.
Great detailed vid - Ques - if you were in the market for one - which year is the best value yet still keeping the maint costs in mind. Thanks!
Flagship luxury models have always dropped like rocks in value
The problem is that people expect cars to hold their value longer so they can sell them after 2 or 3 years to buy another car or an updated model. More and more people behave as if everything is disposable, due to lease and subscription models. People don't buy to own anymore.
If you buy the new Taycan brand new from the dealer, you should get the extended warranty to cover you for at least 5 years. Just own the car for at least 5 years! Why throw it away after 2-3 years?
Also, as far as I know, you can keep adding extended warranties after the initial 5 years (the car will need to pass inspection first). So you could potentially own a maxed-out Taycan, worry-free, for up to 8 years!
After you pay off your car in, say, 4 years, you can enjoy owning an amazing car with very low monthly costs for the next 4 years! Keep in mind that EVs need very little maintenance, and the extended warranty covers anything that breaks.
Why should you pay 150.000+ for a Brand New taycan when you can get a used one with 10.000 miles on it for 70.000?
fun fact
2020 taycan 4s msrp about 105k new, now most 65-70k
2020 panamera 4s msrp about 106k new, now most 70-75k
that is, the depreciation is in the same ballpark
you just contradicted yourself, you said Taycan is in the ballpark of 65-70, and then after said panamera is in the ballpark 70-75. So clearly different ballparks.
@@blob2092 being anal for no good reason, I see.
there is a range of used prices asked. I didn't calculated an average of all used cars on the market. Same ballpark means have overlapping price ranges. Around 70k in this specific case. Not like the panamera has 50-70% used residual value, and the taycan 25-30% like media want us to believe.
More panameras are in the 100k range then a taycan. Just checked autolist. This is pretty BS.
@@PEACEOUTXX1 dear simple mind, your claim is the actual BS. Unless, you make a comprehensive analysis of all used Pan/Tay nationwide for sale and all versions, and actual selling price. As a matter of fact, you can find a number of them at 70-75k same year and mileage, and same most common "4S" version. And all people, but you, will buy those offered at lower price, for same model and conditions
@@USUG0 well my mom is actually getting out of a 2023 panamera 4 e hybrid into a 2025 taycan 4s.. so we'll see how bad it depreciates. I love the taycan but I think it def doesn't hold value as well.
Anyway when you buy a car 99.99% of them are going to depreciate , every single mile is costing you money you will never get back . If you are worried about that then the car you bought is above your means , if not then you don’t care .
I enjoyed the video, there’s lots of thoughtful insight in it, thank you.
Tesla is a common sight on the roads and I’m happy to see them.
However, when I see a Taycan it’s an EVENT.
My Summary: Buy the Porsche with your heart. - Find the best spec and price for you and make sure you have a long warranty!
Taycan would be an absolute bargain. I’d love the cross Turismo
The range is terrible. My dealer said real world just over 200 miles for early models.
@@f.kieranfinney457 200 is plenty, even if I don’t trust a dealer.
How many times have you really travelled > 200 miles without a break?
Charges fast and great on a road trip.
@@ObiePaddles I’m sure it’s more like 240. But I do stop around 270-300 obviously to fill my tank. But I don’t hang out.
Our issue is lack of charge stations where we travel. Big detours, dodgy locations and SLOW chargers.
@@f.kieranfinney457 each to their own.
@@ObiePaddles I happen to think a car should work the way you want. We shouldn’t have to make big adjustments.
I’d love a Taycan Sport Turismo. I could just about afford a used one. But unfortunately they don’t work the way I need them to. 230 claimed range is just not enough. And of course there’s the uncertainty of how long the battery will last and cost to replace.
In Northern Ireland 1 - 2 year old Vauxhall Mokka electric cars are around half price than that of new ones. Huge depreciation, and there are many such examples in other makes.
I didn’t want to name any names, but the entire Stellantis group is an example of how not to retail EVs.
They were far too compromised for far too much money from the get go and I was told by multiple people it was easy to negotiate the price down.
Hence you can’t really look at the current value compared to the MSRP.
The group seems to have learned from their mistakes though. For example, Vauxhall reshuffled the trim levels of electric Corsas and Mokkas to bring them closer to the ICE counterparts. Citroen launched the very well received e-C3 focused on value for money, etc.
@@MartinKarel So that's why the MSRP prices were reduced so sharply. Many thanks Martin.
Just bought new Mokka-e in Croatia for 19k euro cash. 12 thousand euro discount from Opel Dealer
@@rcajavus8141 Congratulations. That sounds like an excellent deal. Hope you are pleased with the Mokka. Happy motoring 🚙
Great video. Macan EV is not offered as AWD standard now that the base trim level has been released. Initial launch was all AWD trims, but the Macan EV is standard RWD. At the time this video was made, his information was accurate.
Taycan in Canada is still holding value relatively well which is annoying. Would love to exchange my Macan GTS which I love for a Taycan Cross Turismo
Thanks for your clear explanation on Taycan depreciation. I agree that the Macan EV looks a very promising car and one I am considering when my existing lease expires in 2 years.
This is a REALLY excellent video. Vrry informative. Thank you very much.
Here in ice cold Norway with long winters lot of people have learned the hard way that the battery in EV`s need to be heated to over +0c to be able to charge. That leads to that your car will not charge when it is cold and using a 16A home charger because ALL the electricity goes to only heat the battery. And even with 32A circuit home charger it only charges at half speed wasting half of the effect just to keep the battery warm.
Huh? I live in Sweden and we had long periods of around -20°C last winter. I had absolutely no problem at all charging my EV at home, while parked outside all night.
this weekend Tesla announced a new benefit for the Model Y. 6000,- euro discount on a pre-configured model Y. that makes the model Y now around 39000 euro, new....
Thanks for your video and the open mind. Small correction: The first Gen. Taycan only supports 270kW on a 350kW charger. The 2. Gen now is up to 320kW which is crazy 😄
The first time I saw one was in France, on a motorway, doing 60mph in the slow lane. I can only imagine there were no charging stations nearby and they were driving under range anxiety.
I love the Taycan, especially the Turismo version, but it’s unsuitable for the intended purpose.
I drive 60-65 most of the time, what’s wrong with that? Chilled driving is much more relaxing and enjoyable. If I’m in a nice car, why do I want to make the journey quicker?
The new model goes over 300 miles on a charge, and that's a conservative estimate. There's no range anxiety issue.
Not in France, driving an electric car is a dream there. You spend more on autoroute tolls than electricity!
@@martyndavies1482 we don't know what an autoroute toll is
@@RealElectech en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoroutes_of_France. They're not to be confused with autoroute trolls, those live in the woods near the stopping places.
The past couple of years have been a steep learning curve for me as somebody who likes to buy outright and change relatively frequently, not a very good idea financially at the best of times. Your analysis makes total sense of why we are where we are, it seems obvious now, got carried away at the time.
I wasn't in the Taycan league, but in 2021 buying a new EV (VW ID.3) was actually cheaper than getting a nearly new one and they actually went up in value making trading in for another new car a few months later (Cupra Born) a surreal experience.
It couldn't last and even though I didn't lose much on the Cupra selling it back to the dealer just before things went south, the Tesla I bought new just after the price cuts a year ago has depreciated 30% and the Mini Electric I got 2 years ago 50%. Need to keep them for a while yet and go PCP next time I think.
Do you think the Macan EV will suffer similar heavy depreciation as the Taycan?
My guess is yes
Feel free to extend this supposition to ALL EV's...
Good video Martin, thanks. There is one more thing you need to add though. It's the change in car companies' incentives. They are changing at fast pace in favour of ICE. Companies are sneaky and started to cut promos for EVs and add some for ICE seeing that by changing a consumer perception they may later tell the green governments "you can't stop ICE by xxxx because people don't want them". Look for a report from Carsmile, a big car rental/leasing company in Central Europe who highlighted this strategy recently.
Very informative, structured and interesting video. Applies equally in other EU markets. Taycan is on my short list. Still in my second I3 but it is perhaps the best daily next to the 718 Spyder.
Short answer "Because it was stupidly expensive in the first place!" Look, I overpaid for my humble Kia e-Niro back in 2019 as compared to equivalent sized ICE cars at the time. The price gap has closed a bit but EVs are more expensive than they should be given that battery prices have plummeted since 2019. Having said that I have saved over €10,000 during 106,000 km on fuel and another €1,500 on servicing (oil changes are such a big chunk of new/nearly new servicing costs)...And brakes? By this time an ICE car would have needed both front and back pads and discs...average cost in the UK I've Googles is over £500 (I live in France so have lost touch a bit with costs over there). As new car prices converge between EVs and ICE the transition to EVs will accelerate quicker than a Taycan. 😊
Dealers can't give EV's away in the UK & used prices have collapsed. Many people are reluctant to own a 2 or 3 year old battery. Brand new, EV's are beyond the reach of most & the charging infrastructure is still poor. It would probably take a day to drive from London to the Lake District. However, they make great little about town, run arounds. I expect the Labour government to force ICE cars off the roads within a few years & then I would have to consider an EV. I would expect a scrappage scheme of at least £10,000 & the national grid to collapse as we all plug our devices in.
How much have you lost in depreciation, more expensive insurance and convenience? Sorry, my time is way more valuable than peanuts.
@@kyang162 Just checked on the used car websites here in France where I live. The e-Niro is typically fetching €3K to €5k more than the equivalent Niro hybrid of same age and km. Expensive insurance? This seems to be a UK/USA thing, why you pay a premium for an EV which has fewer parts than an ICE?...I really don't know. I asked about this when I got the car in 2019 as my insurance hardly went up at all when I got the car. I went from a 10 year old Prius to a brand new EV. Right now I am paying €43 a month, it has gone up with inflation since 2019.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 Parts are difficult to get and any repair becomes super expensive. They are also heavier and does more damage in accidents.
@@kyang162 Where have you heard that? Heaviest cars on the roads here in Europe are Range Rovers, Mercs, BMWs etc. All ICE cars. So much negative nonsense in the media about EVs. I know what I know from experience and you just can't argue with that.
It's really easy to understand. Buying a Taycan and EVs in general is like buying an iPhone. One year later, there's a new iPhone out, with better battery, faster charging, brighter screen, more responsive, etc..and this applies to the Taycan, people were paying $25-$30k over MSRP in 2020, flash forward to 2025 model and it's got improved range, charging, better screen, more responsive, better suspension, interface, etc...this is why I am still sticking with my 991.2 Turbo S, it's an analog car.
Stupid logic
So you have an old, obsolete vehicle. No different from every other ICE vehicle. No different from someone driving a vintage Mustang or GTO.
@@bigdougscommentary5719 ICE is superior technology, you are just revealing the tendency of EV fanatics to cling to ideological bullshit rather than practical reality. The ICE can be worked on by a local mechanic and can run quite happily for hundreds of thousands of miles with minimal loss in performance or range, in any weather condition. EV batteries are completely disposable (ironic considering their "climate change" marketing) and EV buyers like @hieuluu2 treat them like disposable gadgets, like phones. EV demand is generally driven by government subsidies and taxes, rather than real market forces, which is never good either. I expect the EV fad to die in the next 10 years, there are already better technologies around.
Fantastic video, please keep it up!
One trend that you see amongst all vehicles, the more overpriced they are when new, the faster they depreciate. EVs are a different animal altogether, though. Governments are pushing manufacturers to produce EVs when consumers are not ready for adoption. Instead, customer demand should always drive production. The Apple strategy of ‘telling the consumer what they want, because they don’t actually know what they want’ doesn’t work in every industry. Then factor in the impracticality of driving an EV. Range, charging times, charging costs, finding charging stations while away from home, etc.
The high depreciation does not appear to be being fed through to the 2nd hand forecourts in UK.
If it ever is fed through then I will be interested.
This also applies to virtually every used ev IMHO
Really excellent video covering many of the real factors affecting Porsche EVs.
All German luxury cars sold above 100k new depreciate more than 25% first year (yeah ok except the 911s), some do hit 40% from sticker 1st year. But rare are the poor ones purchasing them at sticker price (at least in western Europe), that is explaining the spectacular 1st year value loss. It shall be compared to actual paid price, which can only be estimated as this kind of data is unfortunately never public.
Interesting analysis - keep up the good work 😊
The biggest problem with used high end EVs is going to be when they are out of manufacturer's warranty not so much for the battery but all the other very complex and expensive parts that could fail. Also new sales of EVs like the Macan are going to get hit when tax incentives get reduced over the next few years.
I fiercely plan on buying a used Taycan Sport Turismo in about 3 years (the facelift) but hopefully for about 50k
i think it's the closest i might EVER get to drive and own a Porsche
we'll see
Sport Turismo is also my favourite. £50k budget in 3 years time definitely sounds realistic, even for a nice example.
Great video 👍
thanks for your view on this topic
Wait til the Chinese EV's ( even with increased tariffs ) come in and eat everybody's lunch. Then the real depreciation will begin. Scary times ahead in the next 5 years.
Or nice times for people trying to acquire these cars
@@Beastw1ck Yes !
In Chinese will be unsellable on the used market.
Everyone who wants one will buy a new one.
Scary times or exciting times, depending on how you look at it.
The auto industry has been absolutely stagnant for decades, with just incremental improvements between model generations.
Electrification and new technology is finally shaking things up. And more competition in the market is always a good thing for the customer.
Cars are just too expensive for most people to make a gamble on quality and especially if there are no dealers around.
There are loads of people that bought some off brand car to find out that the brand left the European market and you can't get parts anymore, landewind is a good example.
It is fine to buy a bike or a phone from some weird brand, for a car you want to have the guarantee that at least parts stay available.
Their is one thing you don't seem aware of. These cars are not very popular but their is massive capacity and as such Porsche use these as bargaining chips to get a slot for more popular cars like the RS3. Simply put, it not uncommon to be offered a build slot on a rs3 in exchange for buying 5 or 6 Porsche EV you don't want so "they can get to know you" Needless to say, these go straight into used car inventory driving down prices
Great job explaining the broader market drivers that apply to EVs. I think another factor you didn’t touch is the rapid technical innovation (better range and faster charging) that more and more new models are offering.
The technology is definitely evolving and competition is driving down prices - especially at the entry level.
However, even the first generation Taycan is still one of the fastest charging EVs out there and unless you go for the smallest battery, the range is just about average, so not sure how much of an impact that has. I am sure Porsche would have made some in-depth customer surveys but will want to keep the results secret.
Maybe I can afford a used Taycan, I would hate to pay Porsche service and parts prices as well as the insurance costs.
Bought a Toyota Aygo 8k 5 years ago, it's still worth 8k. Replacing the car battery lead acid battery costs 2k on a Tycan £60 Aygo by the way its viewed as a consumable it's outside of the warranty by Porsche. Look i know what your going to say an Aygo isn't a Porche and yes I know I agree, and I've loved my Porsches but as we know Porsche engineering is no where near the quality of Toyota its why older porches need a lot a lot of love, the Boxster I had wasn't to bad to fix admittedly build quality was ok ish but no where up with Toyota levels so it went wrong quite a lot but my independent porsche specialist did a great job. Taycan yeah ... well ummmm. ... like all electric cars ... oh dear ... no independents ... ooohhh .,, yeahh that isn't great prepare yourself for financial ruination should you wish to get a repair done, hence second hand is more of a challenge to sell.
I bought my M3 RWD at the wrong time, but i also got a good price for my part exchange vehicle, i had always intended keeping my car for quite a few years so the depreciation is not such a big issue for me as you identified although it was pretty annoying that Tesla did the price cuts in the way they did.
Another fantastic video - informative, succinct and insightful. Really loving your channel. Thank you. Maybe you could do a video on the UK ZEV mandate- I know a lot of people trying to determine when is the right time to make the jump to EV and an awareness of ZEV mandate could help them make an informed decision.
Very well presented video
Heard of one Taycan that hit some road debris. Seemed ok immediately afterward but then few days later wouldn't charge at all. Turned out the battery pack was damaged and the car was written off. Bill for new battery was £50k or so according to the story i read. So no thank you . Ouch
The closest fast charger near me in northeast UK is 30 miles away and it costs 79p pkw so it costs £70 to go 240 miles.
And how far away is the closest slow charger / a 3-pin socket?
@@MartinKarelAnd if you want to use a 3 pin socket how much range would you get in a 5 minute charge (ie the same time as a typical petrol fill-up?)
@@angleseyandy9110 It takes 10 seconds to plug a car in.
In the UK, we spend 597 hours driving on average per year.
That means a car is parked up for 8,163 hours a year. So why can’t it be plugged in for some of that time if it’s not doing anything anyways?
8,000 hours of charging time is enough to get approximately 64,000 miles of range. That’s over 8 times the average annual mileage. All using the slowest charging method possible. 🤷♂️
@@MartinKarel oh dear.
It’s the ridiculous price tag these cars had when they were new. Everyone did know this would no be a sustainable price level.
I would love to buy a heavily depreciated Taycan ... but they don't exist. :(
Just another clickbait video.
78k for taycan turbo s with 8k kilometers on it here
@@madlad847 link?
@@2eels probably not in your country
I wanted to drive one back when they were launched. Because of the slow rollout, the dealer never had any to demo. Eventually once the supply chain issues were solved, the very high defect rates of the Taycan batteries caused me to take the Porsche off the list. Plus, while I may be able to stomach the absurd prices and option costs of a 911, I have no tolerance for that kind of nonsense with a Taycan or Macan. A 911 is an heirloom item that you dream about and keep forever, while an SUV or EV aren't.
I know tens of Taycan owners and not a single person have had a battery problem. Heater yes, battery no.
The target audience is business owners, who buy through salary sacrifice, sell at the end of the lease, and save the exact amount in depreciation, meaning they drive a brand-new Porsche for three years for free.
Martin, this is exactly what many people need, advice on used cars flavoured with technical and performance related considerations. I’m 65 now and recently bought a pristine 2019 i3S for circa £15k. Apart from two occasions, when I bought a brand new fully loaded 7 series V8 and a convertible 3 series, I bought all my cars after at least 50% of the depreciation had been knocked off the price. My policy has been to lessen the purchase costs by embracing depreciation. Lastly, I’d pay a subscription to watch explanatory videos on long term i3 ownership tips, tricks and maintenance advice. I think many people would. I’d also pay handsomely for real-time assistance using FaceTime. Going to send this to my daughter as I’d previously recommended she bought an Etron (wagon) as the one-sided worry about range makes it brilliant value right now and she, like many, don’t go on regular road trips, so 180 real-world miles is perfectly adequate. Thanks for taking so time and trouble over this video. Cheers Geoff
The problem with the first electric cars, is that they were like the first pentium computers. Touted as the most advance things. But in reality by next year, it’s out of date 😊and it’s replaced by something that’s faster better more efficient and cheaper.
Difference with ice cars is that ice cars get more expensive every year but electric cars get cheaper which gives secondhand prices much more pressure
And therein lies the problem.
There is already a product which is faster, better, more efficient and cheaper.
It's called a petrol engine.
@@angleseyandy9110 petrol is not faster, nor more efficient.
@@DonLee1980 🤣
@@angleseyandy9110 yeah, can I have some of what you're smoking too?
Good video. Based on data and well presented.
The model is designed to make profit on brand new PCP or sell. After a few years resell and gain something from there. Great deal for VW bad for the user. It is only for people with quite a lot of money to burn. The issue the gap between that people and the next layer. That is why its depreciation is massive. Not to mention battery pack replacement
I’m just giving you factual information do with it what you will…… there are 2013 and 2014 Tesla model S vehicles running around with 250 K for miles that have about 10% degradation … this is factual 👍 plenty of battery life left
all good
How's the rest of the car?😅
EV can never have the resale value as ICE cars. With time battery life goes down and battery replacement is more than half the value of the car. So with EVs don’t talk about resale value and hence depreciation.
Every luxury car depreciates like a rock.
My view is buy the last generation ICE Macan. Like high end watches, they will increase in value when production stops. The average EV owner will be thinking of going back to ICE but the used car market will be the only option. Hence demand increases but no chance of additional supply.
I wonder what happened in early 2022 to massively increase gas prices around the world, especially in Europe 🤔
The reason the Depreciation is so great is because it's not worth the initial price, its hardly worth half the price you pay. Wake up.
Keep dropping
I couldn't finish the video due to the infuriating "click" sound effect. Otherwise I was enjoying it.
The Porsche Taycan drives beautifully but it was inefficient and was far too expensive. Now that the 2024 Taycan is out with its much longer range and better efficiency. It means that the old MK1 is even further out of date.
It's a Porsche, of course it's unjustifiably expensive. That's not a bug, that's a feature. People who buy them, buy them because they are unreasonably expensive for what you get. They are glorified Volkswagen/ Audi. The Taycan is basically identical to the respective Audi. People who buy Porsche, buy Rolex for the same reason.
My 2021 4S gives me 480 km range in the summer. I really dont need anything more than that. It's expensive to buy yes, but to run it costs many times less as its ICE counterparts like an BMW M3 or 911.
Your boss isn't Richard is he?
The problem for the Taycan as well now will be the Model 3 Performance finally coming and, of course, the brilliant Ioniq 5 N at £60k and £65k!
I thought M3P was already out months ago
Good analysis
The bottom line is if you lease a car and you can afford the repayments the depreciation is completely irrelevant its the finance company's problem not yours.
The lease price is affected by the rate of depreciation -+- the finance company looks at expected depreciation and maintenance costs as well as interest rates as the primary determinants of lease rates.
When depreciation rates are average, in financial aspects it's usually always more efficient to buy and own the car, then resell it after a few years. I dont know how it is specifically for the Taycan. But obviously leasing offering companies are not stupid. They calculate leasing rates to be above what the comparable depreciation is, because they want to sell the car after it's returned.
The Porsche Taycan is too expensive and too small for what it is, it's a fine EV, but 100k EVs are selling like hotcakes, hence, why you see Tesla, Lucid, and others cutting pricing and/or offering crazy lease deals, we still need more Level 3 chargers
The reason it depreciates is, it's overpriced to begin with. 200k for this crap wtf?
There is two types of Porsche buyers: for the first group, 200k is not a lot of money. They make money like that in 6 to 24 months. For the second group, they finance the car to look like they belong in the first group.
I went to visit Porsche when the TAYCAN came out. I assumed it would be the same size as the Panamera. I was wrong. I couldn’t even get into the TAYCAN. These things are not fit for big men or tall men. I am much happier with my Cadillac LYRIQ all-wheel-drive 500 hp.
Keep telling yourself a Caddy is better than a Porsche 😂
Only 500....
@@neil5242 They are both crap cars. Why anyone would consider buying a non-Tesla EV is beyond me.
@@donm2255 why would anyone consider to buy a Tesla. It's beyond me. Worst CAR I have ever driven.
@@peterhammer6915 Tesla sells more cars every year without advertising. They are the safest cars on the planet. Fast, effortless acceleration, handle well and you can get groceries in them. I'm in my late 50's and have driven a lot of cars. I can also afford anything I want. Tesla is making a solid car and I love mine. They are reinventing automotive manufacturing. You need to get use to Tesla's being around. Cheapest solution always wins.
All high-end luxury EV’s drop off a cliff 2022 lucid air GT 145KMSRP 2 years later under 10,000 miles 67K….. same goes for EQS and I7
Yep. And it’s also a very similar story for the ICE equivalents. S class, 7 series, Panamera, etc.
EVs are now truly mainstream - they depreciate like everything else does! This is the least big shock ever, was just the oddity of EVs getting popular in covid where normal car economics went crazy.
Really clear and open video. Thanks.
Great video
To be honest I don't get it why most EVs don't appreciate much quicker.
The old crap with questionable battery status after 5 years should be next to worthless.
the sensible buyer goes for used ones under warranty, which deletes all worries about battery. that's more or less a must for anyone who buys an EV, new or used. It's just too expensive to fix.
There is a reason why even Porsche dealers don't want to touch a used Taycan: extremely poor reliability and excessively high repair bills.
Easy. Because of tax reasons a lot were leased as company cars and those leases have expired leading to a glut on the market
You did a better, more factual explanation than Carwow did on the same topic. I do think a better comparison would have been to compare the Taycan with an ICE luxury performance car like the Panamera. A lot of the narrative is about EV depreciation. The real story seems to be much more that buying European luxury cars are a bad financial decision.
Thanks!
This was my original idea but there are not enough Panameras (which is the most comparable car to the Taycan) on the market.
Porsche also seems to have completely revamped the entire trim / drivetrain lineup for the Panamera making it even more difficult to estimate the real depreciation.
It’s a Porsche shaped battery car. It’s not a 911 EV, doesn’t handle like a Porsche with an engine and is worth the same as a Model 3, Enyaq iv etc etc
you are wrong on every count. It handles exactly like a Porsche and its faster out of the corners than a 911. You have to break more coming in but that's only fun. A model 3 performance is worth about half of the price of a Taycan.
@@peterhammer6915 Handles exactly like itself but not a mid or rear engined Porsche… because physics. What is the PWR of a Taycan?
@@LysanderLH Have you driven one on track? It's incredibly good. I compare to my earlier cars like E92 M3 or F80 M3. On the same track I have also driven several 911:s. Yes, a base, S or GTS does handle better because of weight but the difference isn't that big.
@@peterhammer6915 I haven’t tracked a Taycan and while I doubt it’s rubbish, I would always choose a 911 or even a Boxter for that matter over a Taycan. VAG are suffering the slings and arrows of the new world of EVs and until batteries lose weight and physical size, for us spirited drivers, they’ll be fast and heavy cars. My diesel manual Peugeot Rifter is much more easily balanced and corners better and faster on roads than my Model 3, which makes it a more interesting drive.
@@LysanderLH I always wanted a 911 but failed every time because it only has 2+2 seats. A Boxer doesn't have even that.
I believe you on the Peugeot vs Tesla. The Model 3 is astonishing bad on curves. The perf has great acceleration but when you have to turn the steering wheel, things get ugly.
I consider myself as a spirited driver, have owned many BMW M:s in the past. The Taycan is the 2nd most fun car on curvy roads after my E92 M3. I owned 14 BMW:s before I switched to Taycan.
I really wonder what happens in the UK in a couple of years when the ZEV mandate really bites. I assume Porsche can fold in under the VW group and they will launch a mickey mouse ID less than 3 (e.g. less than 50KWh, full stripped of any options, etc) like the Dacia EV or the Citroen C3e. Also Porsche has also removed its best selling ICE car (original Macan)
@@johndinsdale1707 really? You wonder what will happen?
People will continue to buy cars.
But they will be second had ice cars.
Yes there will still be a few wanting to pretend they're in a status symbol EV but those numbers dwindle as they finally realise their folly or are unable to recoup anything on their EV.
There doesn't seem to be a market for used Taycans.
I paid $15k for my ludicrous mode tesla with free lifetime supercharging. Once Porsche reaches this level I'm ALL IN
I know bruh! I bought my gold bars at $7/pound. N
@@bassandtrebleclef LMAO
The Taycan was a victim of its own success when launched. Nothing wrong with the car. It’s was just overpriced to start with and now market values are more realistic for a mass produced sports car. Great car for anyone buying it second hand.
People who can buy a Porsche did NOT cut back during the pandemic.
Porsche being Porsche... they were too greedy. Their rich buyers were falling over themselves to buy a Taycan, pumping up the asking price. Then Porsche didn't move the technology forward. Charging infrastructure is NOT the problem. Limited range from its massive battery. Means that everyone else caught Porsche and overtook them. Look at the Hyundai N series, already as fast as Porsche yet half the money.
Not to mention Chinese competition massively undercutting expensive western EVs. And the dead hand of Governments interfering in the markets.
There are important issues that also need to be raised.
Firstly, EVs are very far from being ecological. Let's not forget the embodied CO2 which penalises EVs over ICEs for at least 60,000 miles.
Secondly, no EVs can be described as light. This saps their real life range and recharging (away from home) is way more expensive than it should be. The current range of EVs is also reliant on 1990s spec computer batteries.
Thirdly, battery life is the known unknown. These are portable computer batteries. None last for more than 5 years. Perhaps a video on battery replacement costs would be useful. Just how much is a battery change on a Porsche.
Battery material sourcing and recycling are also in the dieselgate category of dark arts.
Many folks like myself prefer to have an old car for occasional use (but certainly not a Mom truck), a bicycle for everyday journeys under 30 miles (and to keep fit) or to use public transport. Why even bother wasting money on an EV?
Used prices of EV’s are low because of low demand.
@@NapoleonDynamyte and oversupply due to the huge number of 3yr old fleet supply hitting the market.
They'll be paying you to take them in the next 5 years.