Guy: *shows up* Kisame: He's looking strong. Itachi, can I fight him? Itachi: There's only one thing we must do when we fight him. We use our legs to the fullest potential. Kisame: What do we do? Itachi: NIGERUNDAYO!
I have a genuine question? Why do people think that guy doesn't have access to all the gates in part 1. There's nothing that implies that he doesn't. I always assumed that since part 1 he's always had access to them all.
I outline it in the vid but he just continually gets stronger, you could say it but since he’s always training it’s easier to assume he gradually masters more. Doesn’t really change much but just throw in my 2 cents
@@noahblevins9569 bruhh that's not a plot hole 😂🤦a character not using an ability is just either inconvenient or he or she clearly just not prefer not to use it. Please educate yourself on what a plot hole is
Fair points given in the video but a lot of the benefit of the doubt is given to Kakashi in my opinion. Until the War Arc Guy wins if it’s battle to death, especially since he probably already had all of the gates since part 1.
@ThunderGodTG this is true, but this also makes Guy's fights not fun to talk about. People will just "8th gate" you to death. Which is fine, but to me, if he needs to use the 8th gate, he's actually not powerful enough to beat them.
Databook stats could also be a reflection of how each specific stat lines up compared to *that character's* other stats. So Kakashi's Speed not increasing from a 4 to a 5 could still mean his speed increased dramatically, but also that the rest of his stats increased a similar amount and haven't been eclipsed.
Right the data books are basically scouting reports. I really would personally consider them as merchandise an non "canon" but that's just how I see it from a story telling/real world angle
Data book stats most definitely don’t mean that.Lees numbers from data book 1-2 debunk this theory.A better theory is they actually are power level comparisons.But only for rank like jonin,chunin,genin,kage.
Before I watch: Basically equal with an edge to Kakashi until Guy brings out the 8th gate (Kakashi admits Guy Surpassed him). Then DMS Kakashi > 8th gate guy Funny how they're both temporary upgrades that made them both gods
That's my call too. I think it's significant that by their own efforts, Guy ultimately made himself stronger than Kakashi, only being surpassed by him due to an eyeball transplant.
I don't think anyone has any idea how much Gates increases your base stats, and Guy's already better at that than Kakashi. Guy's speed alone carries, let alone his power.
Guy is implied to be physically superior to Kakashi. With sharingan guy can fight Kakashi but Kakashi is stronger. When the gates come out Guy is superior to him. That seems to be consistent. When MS is introduced. It's implied until he mastered it 5th gate is superior and once mastered 7th gate Guy is equal to MS Kakashi. 8th gate being superior to MS Kakashi and DMS is superior to 8th Gate Guy.
No it’s not ur forgetting kakashi was getting mad Amos through out the war and dual ms wouldn’t be as strong if kakashi didn’t get the last bit of chakra from obito it wouldn’t have been that strong ….I still think even with all the amps kakahi got guy is still stronger but ppl over hype it
@@symaliwilliams1155dude make his own fanfiction ? Kakashi got the chakra from Obito ; why you make Ur own scénario where he dont have it ? You know Kakashi cant have Obito DMS without Obito soul in his body ? Did you read Naruto ? Or you just mad Kakashi dms would destroy Guy 8 Gates ? I dont understand .
@@alinstoian4393Yup the war arc broke the entire world building and laws of the universe... on top of all the a-pulls... it had it's high moments, but most were very low.
Pt 1 Guy claps! Kakashi might have a single attack in Chidori that matches Guy’s speed but I don’t see it winning him the match. Also Guy can summon a turtle so insta win conditions met
Guy has always had a slight edge for most of the series for me. Kakashi gets an edge in the war, I disagree that Kakashi scales to 6th Gate Guy without Raikiri though. MS is probably equal or beyond the 7th Gate, especially including amps. And then Guy pushes ahead again with the 8th Gate. DMS Kakashi pushes ahead again later on.
Yeah I would say Kakashi only scales to gated guy regularly in the War Arc we were just make some potential inferences based on what’s shown and the statements surrounding them
Nawl base guy was fighting side by side a ms kakashi ! Not once did he enter 7gates until madara showed up and he hit him with a hidora ! Might guy beat stronger akatsuki members and out side of 8th gates and dms might guy just showed he was stronger
Nice vid guys! I truly love Kakashi and guy as a duo truly. Such a healthy rivalry. You guys did VERY well with the scaling as well. I ABSOLUTLY hate when ppl use datebook stats. They are so inaccurate in essentially EVERY anime. Truly despise them. Also, have you guys read the novels? I recommend giving em a read. We get some cool feats and in general it's just a really good read. Plus they are Canon as well due to a timeline being shown in kishimotos "scarlet and spring". And even some of them being adapted to the anime.
@@bartimusprime5652 Only when they're equal or if one person has a major setback. If a heavyweight fighter went against a lightweight, better bet that heavyweight is gonna have a better chance at winning.
@@blacksmoke6292 thats in a controlled environment. When it comes to street fighting or real warfare, intelligence wins. History tells that time and time again
It's disingenuous to imply Guy didn't have access to the gates in part 1, regardless of whether he used them. He taught Lee the gates. Maybe Guy couldn't use all the way to the 8th, but there's no world where he couldn't at least enter the Hidden Lotus (3rd+) if not beyond Lee (5th+). He was called the *Noble Blue Beast* since the Tsunade retrieval arc, and that title comes from his appearance in the 7th gate when his aura (evaporated sweat) is blue. This is confirmed when, as he goes to use the 8th gate, he says something along the lines of "Time for the Noble Blue Beast to become the Red Beast." Bare minimum 7th gate in part 1. During the the fight with obito, guy along with eight tailes were cought by madaras absorbing dragons and guy was completely drained, so it makes sense kakashi would shine more, and this part of the arc is centered around kakashi and obito, and later on with minato, why would guy even be shown, hes a side character. madara is consistent throughout the whole series in terms of strenght edo and alive, so i base kakashi and guy of how they would do against madara. Lee tore Madara in half, and Kakashi would not be able to do aything against him, guy will be able to harm him. Plus, 7th gates guy clashing with Jubidara >>> anything Kakashi does unitl dms. Minato, garaa, Kakashi are not able to do anything. Also, what scenario is this fight happening in? Since dms is literally obitos chakra/power given to kakashi for a moment to help them defeat kaguya, Kakashi won't have access to it unless obito is there and is dying. Guy wins all encounters with Kakashi in all scenarios except with obito dying fighting Kaguya. Guy has the better stats, kakashi has ninjutusu. Not to say guy can't use ninjutsu, there is only so much you can show in weekly chapter. Kakashi is a main character, and very important to the plot especially is dynamic with obito in the war arc, so the camera will be on him. Guy > Kakashi. Not up for debate or opinions.
Guy can know about all the gates and not physically be able to use them yet, it’s not that ridiculous to suggest. He knew about the Gate of Death as a child but obviously couldn’t open it then or as a teen, same applies for Lee he can only go into a certain amount of gates.
@@ThunderGodTG You completely ignored by point, guy was called the Nobel blue beast since part 1 (blue vapour from 7th gate), and when he activated his 8th, he said its time for the Nobel blue beast to become the red beast. We don't have to speculate he can know of it but not use it, kishimoto wouldn't have him say that if it weren't true. When team 7 first encountered guy, sasuke was having a melt down that lee was being taught by Guy, who is "above kakashi, is he human?" (in his own words). Lee can go 5 gates in part one, but we're gonna speculate that because we haven't seen guy use it, he can't use it. Considering that Lee could open five gates in the first part, it’s reasonable to assume that Guy, as his teacher, would have the same if not greater capabilities. Might Dai passed on the technique of the Eight Gates to Guy, and said you will make it even more special, who in turn taught it to Lee. It’s logical to assume that Guy would have had to master the technique himself in order to teach it effectively. How would guy teach the 8 gates if he hadn't known it himself and prepare Lee for the the pain/tolerance and physical ability needed to handle it? dms is situational power up (power of friendship) where obito has to be present. Kakashi won't be able to use it vs guy except for that situation. During the war arc, guy hirodored madara susano whilst getting his chakra drained from the wood dragon. Kakashi didn't do something that you could say clearly put him above guy.
Yeah I just didn't really want to respond to the whole comment point for point, I disagree with a lot here I think there's a few leaps you're making but we can just agree to disagree and keep it moving like I mention in the vid if you think Guy has all 8 Gates throughout the show there you go.
Minus 8th gate and dms ! Might guy is definitely stronger . Base might guy war arc was fighting side by side with ms kakashi against obito ! And was avoiding being attacked by obito in just h2h IN BASE! And he has beat stronger akatsuki members like kisame is definitely stronger then kakuzu People also forget might guy hit madara with a hidora as well !
Kakashi wasn’t fighting with Ms at the time and guy only reacted to some shuriken kakashi was moving faster than 6th gate guy in that fight go watch it
@@IamVybez him using kamui in their fight is him using ms ! Which he used in the beginning of the fight while base guy and kcm naruto was fighting obito with nunchucks ! So thats false
Regarding the "Always training" blurbs for Kakashi and Guy, its also worth considering that there's a difference between training with intent to improve and training ti maintain your current level.
While I do agree Kakashi would more than likely be training with intent to improve considering he got trashed by Orochimaru & Itachi with an entire group with characters on that level.
@@ThunderGodTG Good point, I suppose I was still thinking more on the "Kakashi had gotten rusty" while trying to square it with "trains every day", although I think those statements were both for different sections haha
One thing I never understand is why I’m part 1 Guy is referred to by either himself or someone else as the “Noble Blue Beast of the Leaf” implying that he has the Blue Vapor. Meaning he can open the 7th gate. But no one gives him any credibility for that. Despite not having feats (mostly cuz he’s just a minor character at the time) it’s still stated so why wouldn’t he be able to open that gate? Why would they call Him the blue beast if he could only Ever emit green aura from the 5th/6th. Can you provide some clarification/thoughts on that TG(also great vid and collab with sage)?
My fault didn’t watch far enough into it. Left comment at about 10:30. And you clarify at about 10:50 lol. Feel free to dismiss this. Japanese Kanji is wild man.
@ThunderGodTG Friend code SW-1692-5322-8327. Set one I’m picking Samus Set 2 I’m picking ZSS Do you worst buster brown In the wise words of Nick Diaz: Don’t be scared homie
I gotta say it make no sense to say that most likely guy can only open up to the 5th gate in part 1. It’s most likely he can open up to at least the 6th or 7th. we know he’s dad taught him the gates as a young adult and lee is like 13 when guy teaches him to open the first 5 in under 2 years. Guy most likely knows how to open them all or at least up to the 6th or 7th. It makes the most sense that he is able to open them all as he’s called a master of the 8inner gates and is able to teach it to someone
He could know fundamentally how to get there just not have the body for it, which would explain all his physical training. In similar case conceptually is aware how to open the 6th gate but doesn’t until the end of the war arc.
Kakashi's jutsu count is including his fight against the Seven Ninja Swordsmen and then his fight with Obito. He could have gotten healed betwixt the two fights, which makes the chakra consumption more reasonable. Guy's speed was considered inhuman by Gaara who had seen Naruto and A fight, so he could theoretically be that fast.
My general perspective is that Gai is stronger by a varying amount, but Kakashi is smarter/more strategic. So I do agree with people who think Gai has an advantage for most of the show on paper, but my gut tells me Kakashi could still find a way to win most of these matchups
@@ThunderGodTGTbh I think Guy knows that too, and that's why the rivalry in part one is kinda one-sided. It seems like Gai wants to become way stronger than Kakashi and outclass him, not just surpass him a little. And man, the 8 Gates moment hits so hard, Kakashi admits that Gai's raw power finally outclasses him
Is this also taking into account their friendship? I feel after so long Guy would know most of Kakashis tricks. Kakashi would know Guys too, but Guy is just a lot more straight forward.
@@doejhonny even if he knows kakashi it does change that kakashi is just way way smarter than guy bro in a battle of strategy Kakashi runs circles Guy being straightfoward is actually bad form cause kakashi probably has a lot of strategies against it
You guys sound like your giving kakashi the benefit of the doubt but lowballing guy every chance. Not hating I promise! love your content just what it sounds like to me
No stress bruv always welcome critique Honestly Kakashi’s just more complex to talk about Guys very straightforward just due to the nature of his arsenal. Like for example if you say 7th Gate in P1 that rips Kakashi apart until the war arc, which we stress a couple times.
bro kakashi is ahead of guy.Thats what is stated.Even shippuden kakashi before war arc would win against 6th gates guy cuz it took 6th gates guy to win against a 30% clone of kisame.War arc kakashi who got way stronger can definitely keep up with seven gates guy and defeat him cuz kamui was extremely fast.Also like the vid said kakashi has more stamina so its just fax .Dont forget that kakashi has 1000 jutsu on top of that he seemingly has more chakra in war arc and is way smarter so can trick guy easily also kakashi was fast af too and his reaction time was impressive cuz like what was stated in the vid, kakashi kamuid rasengan that kcm naruto weilded . Kakashi would win high diff cuz might guy in seventh gate has more raw strength and power
4:27 Consider that Sasuke also hasn't seen all the gates. Also consider that we don't know how much stronger Guy gets from this point to part 2. From what I know he could already be a master of all the gates, making him god tier already. But he doesn't really show his full power until Juubidara. He opens the first six gates against clone Kisame and immediately destroys him, despite the fact Kisame's water jutsu was already nullified with five gates (I think it would have been a close fight with 3-4 gates). After some time, in the war, he one-shots Kisame again with Hirudora after opening the 7th gate. It really takes double Sharingan Kakashi to get close to that. Guy with eight gates could fight the Hashirama or Madara of the Warring States Period and win (then die after that, but still). If it wasn't a timed jutsu resulting on death, he would have destroyed Juubidara on his own. If you put them vs. each other, then Kakachi wins by just kamui-ing outta there when he sees the eighth gate, but if they just want to fight a common enemy, Guy destroys anything that is not a ten tails jinchuuriki.
Kakashi dms negg diff Guy Guy Lost against a Madara rikudo not even using 30% of his full power Kakashi dms damaged a kaguya that was way above Madara rikudo prime ; who IS himself way above Guy 8 Gates by décades .
Dude at First Itachi was like "delete them" and then Guy showed up and he was like "nah let's roll" and that's from the Gary Stew of the series. And EOS Kakashis expression "is that Guy?" Says it all. The win loss records from villains is also in Guys favor.
It’s not even kakashi glazing as much as it is just straight up denying guy. They say that him being called the blue beast doesn’t necessarily relate to 7th gate and cast doubt on whether 7th gate is relevant 3-4 years later…like? He’s the blue beast just cuz??
@@NateKh-i6t part one they were glazing Kakashi. Guy at that point wasn’t a flushed out character so of course the data books didn’t have much details about him. We hardly saw his moves nor was he on screen much. So, of course, it be more difficult to compare the two, but they said by the end of part one they’re giving it to Kashi.
Had to stop when they said that Part 1 Kakashi could take 6 Gate Guy….. And to even question is Guy trains, like that’s all you see him doing. The databooks only tell you information that the author wants you to know at that time. Guys first data book entry wouldn’t include the fact that he can Open the Eighth Gate because that’s not something we need to know. Guy beats Kakashi at all points. He just Opens the Eighth Gate and wins. Granted her dies after, but it’s easy to assume that he wins with Seventh Gate and just get crippled. I see no instance of Kakashi winning other than end of War Arc, Perfect Susanoo.
I understand the disagreement on the 6th gate point that’s fair, the training part I literally clarified right then and there so let’s stop that right now. Guy can have knowledge of how to open all gates but can still physically be unable to do so which is supported by all his training, which is why it’s ambiguous.
With the training part, I was saying that even questioning if Guy trained or not seemed like a very weird thing to speculate on at all. You did go on to say that he did train, but even implying that it was up for questioning seemed like a very weird point. If that makes sense. And I agree it is ambiguous, but even giving the lowest level of assumption possible; im pretty sure Lee could open 5 gates in part 1, then to say Guy can only open 1 more than him seems like a very lowballing estimation. But even giving Guy just 6 Gates in Part 1, and then 7-8 gates come part 2, I think if it was a true fight to the death and both characters go all out Guy wins in just about ever instance. However, If Guy is wanting to survive after the fight then it would give Kakashi some more instances of victory
Base to base kakashi wins Gates 1-4 guy vs kakashi 3T sharingan kakashi wins gears 5-6 debatable and 7th i feel takes the fight mid-high diff. DMS vs 8 gates depends on if you think Guys spacial warping would allow him to hit kakashi. If so Guy wins and then dies, if not Kakashi probably barely outlasts Guy or loses then Guy dies anyway
Honestly, the feats are impressive for guy. But, as close as they are in power, Kakashi is a smarter fighter with a more impressive arsenal. Lethal Kakashi wouldn’t let guy just stand around and open gates. Guy will have to open the gates and not get tricked or caught in a non-sharingon or sharingon genjutsu, or get caught off guard by the world around shifting and clones laying around, not to mention if he hits a lightning clone.
I always think it should be noted that the only two people uninjured from when the Akatsuki first came to the leaf were Guy and Itachi, Kisame, Kakashi, Asuma, and Kurenai all got hurt. Guy is clearly > Kakashi he says it in his introduction and it’s never disputed by anyone
What do you think about a video about Shigaraki (BnHA), Sukuna, or Makima taking on the Akatsuki gauntlet one on one? Where will they individually stop? Or will at least one of them clears the Akatsuki?
the issue is, you take chidori as a general 10x boost, but the issue is, chidori works the way it works, if gai is relative to kakashi he could dodge it without much issues and chidori is an attack, you dodge it, you're good, gai got his multiplier all the time because it's a stat boost unlike chidori which is just a really fast charge in a straight line, assuming gai is even remotely close to chidori's speed he can dodge it if it's not an ambush attack but actual fight. So no it's not 10x boost to speed and power, its a 10x stronger attack, which mind you is easy to dodge as it is just kakashi running in a straight line. So there's no way kakashi actually wins against gai unless he just goes madara-mode and decides to just tank it. Also it is chakra depleting and kakashi part1 / shippuden kakashi prior to war arc is really weak in terms of stamina which gives guy even easier W. So it means simply: if they're equal in base which was pretty much the case then gai is whatever the gate he can open at this time multiplier times stronger than kakashi but maybe if kakashi hits one extremely obvious attack he may win, and well, as they know each other really well it's pretty much another advantage for gai (gai uses brute force taijutsu so its not really a help to kakashi, kakashi on the other hand uses strategy, tactics, trick etc, which will pretty surely make it easier for gai who for 99% knows most of them because they're friends/rivals for so damn long, right he isn' any sort of strategic genius like kakashi so he most likely won't take that big of advantage of every one of kakashi's trick but still, it is a big help for him (it's also the case for later matchups mind you) Also databooks are pretty lame source tbh. Just sayin, yk War arc is debatable due to his kamui's and stamina feats, gai could simply run out of steam faster than him and be easy kill due to 7th gate exhaustion this one would need some better scaling of gai's gates because the one provided is just too unspecified and depends mostly on pure speculation. I'd say its more like 60/40 in favor of kakashi from what we get here. After that it's pretty simple, kakashi gets oneshot by 8 gates, pretty easily. 8 gates vs dms is pretty debatable too in fact (outside of kakashi just going kamui till gai dies, cuz thats nodiff W for kakashi but that is just boring and if it was a lets say death battle episode, no plot involved, just who wins, he'd most likely do gai dirty and just let him die while chilling in kamui, but i want to go for "what if" so its actually more interesting) So what if dms kakashi actually fought gai without taking the easiest W in the world. Well, its mostly a W for kakashi as well due to being able to kamui dodge attacks and gai having a timer, but it gives much better chances for gai. His kamui shurikens worked on kaguya right, she's theoritically stronger than madara, right (tho in a real fight madara would probs mop the floor with her face due to difference in skill) but remember that firstly, kamui shuriken is a endurance negating jutsu, not just really strong one, secondly, well kaguya is just kaguya, she just tries to flex her powers really hard but is no fighter to say the least, thats why she lost against team 7, bro she even got jumped by sakura even, name the other naruto antagonist who would actually get bamboozled by sexy jutsu lmao. Against kaguya dms kakashi would be an S tier counter while guy being lets say D Tier but i really doubt guy would just let himself get hit by shuriken while in eight gates and kakashi surviving night guy or whatever the gai would throw at him, he almost oneshot madara, maybe not fully amped but still Kakashi would have a massive edge over gai but gai would actually have a win condition there and well, he was pretty damn fast to throw around juubidara like that with his combo. Also some scalings were made up from statements that could be 1. being there just for plot reasons 2. misunderstood Well is someone actually managed to get thru all of this you have god-like patience, thanks, have a nice day
4:57 Guy has been stronger than Kakashi all of Naruto until DMS Kakashi. Look how they performed in their fight against Kisame and Itachi, Kakashi got BODIED and Guy cane out Unharmed just like Itachi. Kisame even made nite of Guy’s abilites and wanted Guy to remember him. Even during the timeskip I believe its stated Kakashi went through rigorous training to unlock new abilities etc whereas Guy did his same training and still maintained his strength gap over kakashi. Kakashi needed a Sharingan ti jeep track of one of Guy’s student’s Neji whos implied to be on Kakashi’s lvl or stronger.
Question: Would the space bending effect of Night Guy not possibly negate DMS Kamui? I'm not sure how Kamui works on a more metaphysical level but the implication seemed to be that Night Guy warps anything between Guy and his target? Hard to say but I feel like it wouldn't be as simple as a kamui snipe.
Its stated Guy has a 51 wins 49 losses record against Kakashi, which sound like an even match... Until you realize guy never opened gates when they would fight one another. So base guy was slightly above kakashi who had sharingan and a crazy amount of jutsu.
I haven’t watched yet. I think Base Guy and Sharingan Kakashi are incredibly relative in terms of general stats however Kakashi had the edge for me due to having the superior arsenal and likely battle IQ as well, though Guy is far from dumb. I think Raikiri Kakashi’s speed rivals 6th Gate Guy, some people question this but I actually think it’s consistent. Especially considering that Sasuke was considered Gaara’s strongest opponent above Lee with the 5th Gate, with exam finals Sasuke and Weightless Lee being relative in terms of combat speed. I’d argue this sets a precedent for raikiri being above a 5th Gate amp in speed that remains consistent throughout the series. Kakashi obviously doesn’t have the same AOE attacks as Guy does with gates which is why I think some people don’t think he could scale to him, but I don’t think that’s valid they just have different strengths. Also do Hiruzen vs. The Akatsuki.
Why is guys speed equal to kakashi's at base form and also during open gates. Just some writers bull that makes no sense. Like nerf rock lee speed vs gara. Gag characters that make no sense.
Why wouldn’t guy not have access to all of the gates just from part 1, like rock lee was able to reach the 5th gate at 12, one can only assume he can open whatever gate necessary
He can know how to open all of them but not physically be able to yet which would explain why he continued training his physicality, each gate is an INSANE jump from the last
It's never mentioned that in all battles with both of them that guy never used a gate. can't believe that kakashi and keep up with even the 3rd or 4th gate.
Man any fight with the soul purpose to kill and not be killed in which guy has to open the eighth gate is a draw guy can’t win a fight to the death if the only way he wins is by suicide.
I really don't think clone Itachi is any stronger than clone Kisame. Edo Itachi and healthy Itachi might be stronger than Kisame, but Clone Itachi is extremely nerfed from loosing MS abilities.
Also important to remember that Kisame has pretty much tailed beast level amounts of chakra. Which means that Kisame clone can almost fight normally with the 40% of chakra reserves they have. While Itachi can't use MS and also has to be careful not to use other huge jutsu.
Pt 1 guy and Kakashi being basically even in their competitions would be a good argument for anbu kakashi being stronger because guy probably started closing the gap in pt 1 when Kakashi was on a decline
Congrats on 20k (belated LOL but it didn’t even register to me until today) you def deserve it! As for the matchup, well I always thought Guy had the edge on Kakashi and that their rivalry usually measures base to base (or at most the first gate vs the sharingan). He’s definitely stronger physically for most of the series but like…is Guy gonna throw nunchucks at Kamui? Is he gonna judo chop Kamui??? Lmao.
Gai could almost certainly open all of the Gates in Part 1 tbh. Lee had 5 Gates at 13 and it’s unlikely that Gai was capped at the same place that his barely teenage student was. He’d been using them since he was a child. Yamato also recognizes Afternoon Tiger, so he’s seen it before. He was in the ANBU and probably hasn’t been on a ton of missions with Gai. This suggests that he’s had it for a long time.
No that is the Kanji for Midori which was added about 100 Years ago, different countries have different takes. The actual kanji used in the panel is the Blue Kanji you listed that can be used for both. It’s a little weird they added another Kanji that can also be used for green.
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Nobody has beaten an Akatsuki duo. Not at the same time (and there's reason for this). I'm so sorry, Guy doesn't really stand a chance against Kisame and Itachi. Kisame he can fight. But he just isn't beating BOTH of them, you can "look at Itachi's feet" me until you're blue in the face, you can "he fight MADARA" me to eternity, this just doesn't change the math.
@@hakumgr8654 I think Nagato Itachi and Obito would be a problem for him. I think he could beat itachi but not Obito. Tho if he did it would be because he outsmarted Obito
@@jason15212 Yeah defo, they would be a challenge for kakashi especially edo Nagato. Yep, I agree kakashi wins against Itachi due to kakashi having higher feats than him in the war arc. With orange mask Obito it’s hella iffy due to Obito having the ability to use Izanagi on his left eye, due to spare Sharingan.
@@hakumgr8654 Even alive Nagato(pain) is a problem to deal with given kakashi’s fighting style. Obito and Itachi are more similar and easier to imagine how they would go down. I think he’d outlast Itachi by a little bit. I think Kakashi can somewhat go toe to toe with Itachi sharingan perception wise by then too. If he can get around Itachi’s Susanoo or kill him before he uses it he wins.
@@jason15212 Lol nah not alive Nagato, bro literally on his death bed. Tbh only like Deva and Asura Path of pain is strong the rest of the path of pains is pretty much fodder. He’ll prob just use a lightning or shadow clone to against the weak version of pains whilst he fight the two strongest pains. War arc Kakashi would just speed blitz the two of them, or he’ll just GG no re Kamui them.
When guy confronted itachi he specifically said knows how to counter sharigan. That in itself means he beats kakashi. And if kakashi doesnt have the sharigan he loses. So either way kakashi loses. Now if guy didnt know how to fight or nullify the sharigan then he wouldd lose to kakashi. Hes kakashi and sharigan cryptonite. Its very clear thats what guy is.
Following Anbu Kakashi which is debatable then its always Guy. Then ofc after Guy uses 8 gates it's Kakashi again E: Kaguya is not stronger than Madara :I
I feel like Anbu Kakashi was the last time Kakashi was stronger. After that Guy had the 8 Gates, even if we don’t see him use them we know he could open all 8 gates. Plus Madaras sharingan didn’t help him much with the 8th gate and he was way better with using the sharingan than Kakashi ever could be. I don’t get why TG thinks Guy couldn’t bust out 7th or 8th gate in part 1. I think when Guy is in base his stats are comparable to Kakashi, maybe higher since he never stops training. 4th gate probably makes him equal to Kakashi with sharingan. Only reason people think Kakashi is stronger is because he is constantly with the main character giving him way more screen time.
When you guy were talking about later in part one. Guy most definitely could open all gates he told Lee that when he had a flashback when Lee was opening the gates against gaara. So technically and respectfully guy was the most powerful shinobi in the series until Naruto and saskue got that six paths boost
Didn't Asuna say that Hidan is stronger than him? Or maybe he's talking about Kakuzu? It's been a while since I last read the Akatsuki Supression Mission arc
@@jason15212 They were taking about Hidan. Sauna was weaker than him, but not overwhelmingly. He was considered a threat, while the other three were mostly disregarded at the time.
I feel shows should only have databook stats if the series was meant to have them. Otherwise it just seems like the publisher companys janitor wrote some fanfiction they decided to try squeezing a few bucks out of.
One thing is that there is not a chance that Part 1 Guy only had 5th gate because Lee had 5th gate so Guy would have to have at least 6th but more than likely 7th. He got 8th some time in Shippuden or during the time skip but he definitely was above 5th in part 1.
Great video. I agree with all the points made. But I do have to question how would a fight between the two would end character-wise. In character, the two wouldn’t use any of their high level attacks against each other. Kakashi definitely isn’t pulling out the Raikiri or kamui against guy nor is guy realistically going past the 3-4 gate. Both would leave the two hospitalized regardless of fight outcome, leaving two of the strongest Shinobi in the leaf unable to go on missions for a period of time.
At this point ThunderGod would have to be paid to give a bad take, because he just doesn’t miss! Again at this point we should just start calling TG the Naruto Deadshot 🙏🏾🔥🔥
dms stomps. Kamui gg so.Also kakashi in base was relative to kcm minato so imagine his speed in dms when he got more chakra to sustai such speed for longer periods of time.Also his reaction time is very good he was able to kamui a rasengan that naruto in kcm weilded when he moved full speed when fighting obito.Yea dms kakashi wins
It's a hypothetical, it doesn't have to make narrative sense. In a fight to the death Guy will always win if he's given the chance of using the 8th gate and he's pressed on to doing it (which means that he wins close to a 100%). It doesn't mean that Guy is overall more useful as a ninja than Kakashi is though (he can use the 8th gate just once after all)
Nothing in that scene implies Madara struck back he literally was just defending, one hand is on his staff the other on his side with every frame of him is with his hands down it’s clear he’s just blocking.
Nah when Guy showed up to fight Itachi and Kisame the whole mood changed.
Period lol
Guy really is him had Itachi gassing him up to the strongest S rank criminals lmao
Facts!
Guy: *shows up*
Kisame: He's looking strong. Itachi, can I fight him?
Itachi: There's only one thing we must do when we fight him. We use our legs to the fullest potential.
Kisame: What do we do?
Itachi: NIGERUNDAYO!
@@kodoqbesar4301that was ass
I have a genuine question? Why do people think that guy doesn't have access to all the gates in part 1. There's nothing that implies that he doesn't. I always assumed that since part 1 he's always had access to them all.
theres a lot of genuinely dangerous situations facing him/his team/the leaf as a whole that would be a plot hole for him to go easy on
I outline it in the vid but he just continually gets stronger, you could say it but since he’s always training it’s easier to assume he gradually masters more. Doesn’t really change much but just throw in my 2 cents
@@viviolet7The series has enough plot holes from characters not using their abilities when they should. Adding 1 more does not change anything.
@@noahblevins9569 bruhh that's not a plot hole 😂🤦a character not using an ability is just either inconvenient or he or she clearly just not prefer not to use it. Please educate yourself on what a plot hole is
@@Cad7TB Something like Shisui not using the Izanagi to stop Danzo (he would lose the same eye either way) is a plot hole.
Fair points given in the video but a lot of the benefit of the doubt is given to Kakashi in my opinion.
Until the War Arc Guy wins if it’s battle to death, especially since he probably already had all of the gates since part 1.
I mentioned this in the vid a few times but a lot of the arguments for Guy are just what gate you think he can go into which makes it simpler
@ThunderGodTG this is true, but this also makes Guy's fights not fun to talk about. People will just "8th gate" you to death. Which is fine, but to me, if he needs to use the 8th gate, he's actually not powerful enough to beat them.
That's just how P1 do.
Yeahhhh seems like they have to give kakashi the benefit of the doubt for almost every argument
Databook stats could also be a reflection of how each specific stat lines up compared to *that character's* other stats. So Kakashi's Speed not increasing from a 4 to a 5 could still mean his speed increased dramatically, but also that the rest of his stats increased a similar amount and haven't been eclipsed.
Yeah exactly it’s all proportional to him as a fighter not some objective measurement to be taken hyper literally
Yo What data book does the scan of the raikiri being a 10 times or order of magnitude stronger comes from? Because i can't find it lol @@ThunderGodTG
Right the data books are basically scouting reports. I really would personally consider them as merchandise an non "canon" but that's just how I see it from a story telling/real world angle
Data book stats most definitely don’t mean that.Lees numbers from data book 1-2 debunk this theory.A better theory is they actually are power level comparisons.But only for rank like jonin,chunin,genin,kage.
@@Archer170 If that were true they would change based on rank changes between the time skips. But they don't. They remain linear.
Before I watch: Basically equal with an edge to Kakashi until Guy brings out the 8th gate (Kakashi admits Guy Surpassed him). Then DMS Kakashi > 8th gate guy
Funny how they're both temporary upgrades that made them both gods
COOK!
That's my call too. I think it's significant that by their own efforts, Guy ultimately made himself stronger than Kakashi, only being surpassed by him due to an eyeball transplant.
You crazy my guy.
I don't think anyone has any idea how much Gates increases your base stats, and Guy's already better at that than Kakashi. Guy's speed alone carries, let alone his power.
Although the 8th Gate is part of Gai’s standard power set and I’d say that 7th Gate Gai is stronger than MS Kakashi, but to each their own.
Guy is implied to be physically superior to Kakashi. With sharingan guy can fight Kakashi but Kakashi is stronger. When the gates come out Guy is superior to him. That seems to be consistent.
When MS is introduced. It's implied until he mastered it 5th gate is superior and once mastered 7th gate Guy is equal to MS Kakashi. 8th gate being superior to MS Kakashi and DMS is superior to 8th Gate Guy.
No it’s not ur forgetting kakashi was getting mad Amos through out the war and dual ms wouldn’t be as strong if kakashi didn’t get the last bit of chakra from obito it wouldn’t have been that strong ….I still think even with all the amps kakahi got guy is still stronger but ppl over hype it
@@symaliwilliams1155dude make his own fanfiction ? Kakashi got the chakra from Obito ; why you make Ur own scénario where he dont have it ? You know Kakashi cant have Obito DMS without Obito soul in his body ? Did you read Naruto ? Or you just mad Kakashi dms would destroy Guy 8 Gates ? I dont understand .
I think Guy 7 Gates IS above Kakashi 1 MS
Guy 7 Gates have way better feats than Kakashi 1 MS .
@@edemizi9464 MS Kakashi literally tore a hole in the truthseeking orbs and he teleported half the gedo statue
@@littyfromsouth2002 yeah with Gaara help not alone .
War Arc Kakashi was almost a gag character. Dude damn near had edo chakra.
FR
He's just HIM.
it's just part of when the show lost its very own logic and asspulls started showing up left and right
@@alinstoian4393Yup the war arc broke the entire world building and laws of the universe... on top of all the a-pulls... it had it's high moments, but most were very low.
fully agree and it was sad to see@@badass6300
I just noticed the Pokémon XD battle music in the background and it makes me appreciate you as a content creator even more lmao
We enjoy peak out here 😂
Pt 1 Guy claps! Kakashi might have a single attack in Chidori that matches Guy’s speed but I don’t see it winning him the match. Also Guy can summon a turtle so insta win conditions met
That’s what I’m sayin’ BRUH!
People be sleeping on the turtle!
Guy has always had a slight edge for most of the series for me. Kakashi gets an edge in the war, I disagree that Kakashi scales to 6th Gate Guy without Raikiri though. MS is probably equal or beyond the 7th Gate, especially including amps. And then Guy pushes ahead again with the 8th Gate.
DMS Kakashi pushes ahead again later on.
We talking with MS or base Sharingan?
Yeah I would say Kakashi only scales to gated guy regularly in the War Arc we were just make some potential inferences based on what’s shown and the statements surrounding them
@@yamamotogotbodied1606 Both
Nawl base guy was fighting side by side a ms kakashi ! Not once did he enter 7gates until madara showed up and he hit him with a hidora !
Might guy beat stronger akatsuki members and out side of 8th gates and dms might guy just showed he was stronger
MS kakashi is most definitely not beyond 7th gate. I’d say 7th gate is like a tad stronger than MS. MS just has more of a hax status to it
Nice vid guys! I truly love Kakashi and guy as a duo truly. Such a healthy rivalry.
You guys did VERY well with the scaling as well.
I ABSOLUTLY hate when ppl use datebook stats. They are so inaccurate in essentially EVERY anime. Truly despise them.
Also, have you guys read the novels? I recommend giving em a read. We get some cool feats and in general it's just a really good read.
Plus they are Canon as well due to a timeline being shown in kishimotos "scarlet and spring".
And even some of them being adapted to the anime.
We have read them and discussed them in other vids just wasn’t too relevant here, appreciate the support!
7th Gate Guy Vs Kisame happened at the beginning of the War Arc, Naruto already has KCM1.
Guy will always be high key stronger than Kakashi while Kakashi will always be hands down smarter than Guy
In fights, intelligence and tactics win 99% of the time
@@bartimusprime5652 Only when they're equal or if one person has a major setback. If a heavyweight fighter went against a lightweight, better bet that heavyweight is gonna have a better chance at winning.
@@blacksmoke6292 thats in a controlled environment. When it comes to street fighting or real warfare, intelligence wins. History tells that time and time again
Guy.... the nattie chad god
Do you think Kakashi would’ve struggled as much vs Kakuzu if he didn’t have to worry about Chouji and Ino?
No, Man was babysitting them lol.
Kakashi was protecting them, especially against False Darkness which IMO holds him back. If Kakashi was alone AND can use Kamui, Kakuzu is toast
It's disingenuous to imply Guy didn't have access to the gates in part 1, regardless of whether he used them. He taught Lee the gates. Maybe Guy couldn't use all the way to the 8th, but there's no world where he couldn't at least enter the Hidden Lotus (3rd+) if not beyond Lee (5th+).
He was called the *Noble Blue Beast* since the Tsunade retrieval arc, and that title comes from his appearance in the 7th gate when his aura (evaporated sweat) is blue. This is confirmed when, as he goes to use the 8th gate, he says something along the lines of "Time for the Noble Blue Beast to become the Red Beast." Bare minimum 7th gate in part 1.
During the the fight with obito, guy along with eight tailes were cought by madaras absorbing dragons and guy was completely drained, so it makes sense kakashi would shine more, and this part of the arc is centered around kakashi and obito, and later on with minato, why would guy even be shown, hes a side character. madara is consistent throughout the whole series in terms of strenght edo and alive, so i base kakashi and guy of how they would do against madara. Lee tore Madara in half, and Kakashi would not be able to do aything against him, guy will be able to harm him. Plus, 7th gates guy clashing with Jubidara >>> anything Kakashi does unitl dms. Minato, garaa, Kakashi are not able to do anything.
Also, what scenario is this fight happening in? Since dms is literally obitos chakra/power given to kakashi for a moment to help them defeat kaguya, Kakashi won't have access to it unless obito is there and is dying. Guy wins all encounters with Kakashi in all scenarios except with obito dying fighting Kaguya.
Guy has the better stats, kakashi has ninjutusu. Not to say guy can't use ninjutsu, there is only so much you can show in weekly chapter. Kakashi is a main character, and very important to the plot especially is dynamic with obito in the war arc, so the camera will be on him. Guy > Kakashi. Not up for debate or opinions.
Guy can know about all the gates and not physically be able to use them yet, it’s not that ridiculous to suggest. He knew about the Gate of Death as a child but obviously couldn’t open it then or as a teen, same applies for Lee he can only go into a certain amount of gates.
@@ThunderGodTG You completely ignored by point, guy was called the Nobel blue beast since part 1 (blue vapour from 7th gate), and when he activated his 8th, he said its time for the Nobel blue beast to become the red beast. We don't have to speculate he can know of it but not use it, kishimoto wouldn't have him say that if it weren't true. When team 7 first encountered guy, sasuke was having a melt down that lee was being taught by Guy, who is "above kakashi, is he human?" (in his own words). Lee can go 5 gates in part one, but we're gonna speculate that because we haven't seen guy use it, he can't use it. Considering that Lee could open five gates in the first part, it’s reasonable to assume that Guy, as his teacher, would have the same if not greater capabilities.
Might Dai passed on the technique of the Eight Gates to Guy, and said you will make it even more special, who in turn taught it to Lee. It’s logical to assume that Guy would have had to master the technique himself in order to teach it effectively. How would guy teach the 8 gates if he hadn't known it himself and prepare Lee for the the pain/tolerance and physical ability needed to handle it?
dms is situational power up (power of friendship) where obito has to be present. Kakashi won't be able to use it vs guy except for that situation.
During the war arc, guy hirodored madara susano whilst getting his chakra drained from the wood dragon. Kakashi didn't do something that you could say clearly put him above guy.
Yeah I just didn't really want to respond to the whole comment point for point, I disagree with a lot here I think there's a few leaps you're making but we can just agree to disagree and keep it moving like I mention in the vid if you think Guy has all 8 Gates throughout the show there you go.
@@ThunderGodTGfor every leap he made you made 5 for kakashi. LOL
Minus 8th gate and dms ! Might guy is definitely stronger . Base might guy war arc was fighting side by side with ms kakashi against obito ! And was avoiding being attacked by obito in just h2h IN BASE!
And he has beat stronger akatsuki members like kisame is definitely stronger then kakuzu
People also forget might guy hit madara with a hidora as well !
Kakashi wasn’t fighting with Ms at the time and guy only reacted to some shuriken kakashi was moving faster than 6th gate guy in that fight go watch it
@@IamVybez him using kamui in their fight is him using ms ! Which he used in the beginning of the fight while base guy and kcm naruto was fighting obito with nunchucks ! So thats false
@@IamVybez and no might guy reacted better then even kcm Naruto fighting Obito h2h with his nunchucks
1 leg guy stomps
bruh huh that aint happenin.
We can both agree Kakashi and Guy are the strongest Jonin in the leaf
Regarding the "Always training" blurbs for Kakashi and Guy, its also worth considering that there's a difference between training with intent to improve and training ti maintain your current level.
While I do agree Kakashi would more than likely be training with intent to improve considering he got trashed by Orochimaru & Itachi with an entire group with characters on that level.
@@ThunderGodTG Good point, I suppose I was still thinking more on the "Kakashi had gotten rusty" while trying to square it with "trains every day", although I think those statements were both for different sections haha
One thing I never understand is why I’m part 1 Guy is referred to by either himself or someone else as the “Noble Blue Beast of the Leaf” implying that he has the Blue Vapor. Meaning he can open the 7th gate. But no one gives him any credibility for that. Despite not having feats (mostly cuz he’s just a minor character at the time) it’s still stated so why wouldn’t he be able to open that gate? Why would they call
Him the blue beast if he could only
Ever emit green aura from the 5th/6th. Can you provide some clarification/thoughts on that TG(also great vid and collab with sage)?
My fault didn’t watch far enough into it. Left comment at about 10:30. And you clarify at about 10:50 lol. Feel free to dismiss this. Japanese Kanji is wild man.
😂👌🏻 no worries
@ThunderGodTG
Friend code SW-1692-5322-8327.
Set one I’m picking Samus
Set 2 I’m picking ZSS
Do you worst buster brown
In the wise words of Nick Diaz: Don’t be scared homie
I gotta say it make no sense to say that most likely guy can only open up to the 5th gate in part 1. It’s most likely he can open up to at least the 6th or 7th. we know he’s dad taught him the gates as a young adult and lee is like 13 when guy teaches him to open the first 5 in under 2 years. Guy most likely knows how to open them all or at least up to the 6th or 7th. It makes the most sense that he is able to open them all as he’s called a master of the 8inner gates and is able to teach it to someone
He could know fundamentally how to get there just not have the body for it, which would explain all his physical training. In similar case conceptually is aware how to open the 6th gate but doesn’t until the end of the war arc.
Guy and kakashi have a relationship like no other❤️💕
The bRomance is real.
Kakashi's jutsu count is including his fight against the Seven Ninja Swordsmen and then his fight with Obito. He could have gotten healed betwixt the two fights, which makes the chakra consumption more reasonable.
Guy's speed was considered inhuman by Gaara who had seen Naruto and A fight, so he could theoretically be that fast.
Obito let him win .
That has nothing to do with my point.
@@Arcadia_warlic oh yeah sorry
For Guy been that fast ; what you mean ? I dont really have Time to look all the video i already know who stronger .
Please just read the manga...
@@Arcadia_warlic looking this vidéo = read the manga ? Ok toxic kid ; what is Guy speed ? Toxic kid ?
My general perspective is that Gai is stronger by a varying amount, but Kakashi is smarter/more strategic. So I do agree with people who think Gai has an advantage for most of the show on paper, but my gut tells me Kakashi could still find a way to win most of these matchups
Yeah guy could be physically stronger with Kakashi’s arsenal wide arsenal + battle IQ giving him the edge to the pure taijutsu.
@@ThunderGodTGTbh I think Guy knows that too, and that's why the rivalry in part one is kinda one-sided. It seems like Gai wants to become way stronger than Kakashi and outclass him, not just surpass him a little. And man, the 8 Gates moment hits so hard, Kakashi admits that Gai's raw power finally outclasses him
@@takatotakasui8307Even if he knows Kakashi could beat him like how sasuke used intelligence to beat deidara and for me deidara is smarter than guy
Is this also taking into account their friendship? I feel after so long Guy would know most of Kakashis tricks. Kakashi would know Guys too, but Guy is just a lot more straight forward.
@@doejhonny even if he knows kakashi it does change that kakashi is just way way smarter than guy bro in a battle of strategy Kakashi runs circles
Guy being straightfoward is actually bad form cause kakashi probably has a lot of strategies against it
Imo it wouldn’t make sense for Guy to know anything less than all 8 gates when the story starts.
He can know of them just not be able to physically perform them yet. Just like how Lee knows about stuff with the 8th gate yet can’t do it.
@@ThunderGodTG bull
You guys sound like your giving kakashi the benefit of the doubt but lowballing guy every chance. Not hating I promise! love your content just what it sounds like to me
No stress bruv always welcome critique Honestly Kakashi’s just more complex to talk about Guys very straightforward just due to the nature of his arsenal. Like for example if you say 7th Gate in P1 that rips Kakashi apart until the war arc, which we stress a couple times.
Fans legit ignore kakashi being stated stronger
Not bro in my comments after that reveal in the Virhtue stream lmao
bro kakashi is ahead of guy.Thats what is stated.Even shippuden kakashi before war arc would win against 6th gates guy cuz it took 6th gates guy to win against a 30% clone of kisame.War arc kakashi who got way stronger can definitely keep up with seven gates guy and defeat him cuz kamui was extremely fast.Also like the vid said kakashi has more stamina so its just fax .Dont forget that kakashi has 1000 jutsu on top of that he seemingly has more chakra in war arc and is way smarter so can trick guy easily also kakashi was fast af too and his reaction time was impressive cuz like what was stated in the vid, kakashi kamuid rasengan that kcm naruto weilded . Kakashi would win high diff cuz might guy in seventh gate has more raw strength and power
4:27 Consider that Sasuke also hasn't seen all the gates. Also consider that we don't know how much stronger Guy gets from this point to part 2. From what I know he could already be a master of all the gates, making him god tier already. But he doesn't really show his full power until Juubidara.
He opens the first six gates against clone Kisame and immediately destroys him, despite the fact Kisame's water jutsu was already nullified with five gates (I think it would have been a close fight with 3-4 gates). After some time, in the war, he one-shots Kisame again with Hirudora after opening the 7th gate. It really takes double Sharingan Kakashi to get close to that. Guy with eight gates could fight the Hashirama or Madara of the Warring States Period and win (then die after that, but still). If it wasn't a timed jutsu resulting on death, he would have destroyed Juubidara on his own.
If you put them vs. each other, then Kakachi wins by just kamui-ing outta there when he sees the eighth gate, but if they just want to fight a common enemy, Guy destroys anything that is not a ten tails jinchuuriki.
Kakashi dms negg diff Guy
Guy Lost against a Madara rikudo not even using 30% of his full power
Kakashi dms damaged a kaguya that was way above Madara rikudo prime ; who IS himself way above Guy 8 Gates by décades .
Wasn’t Madara able to heal afterward?
Dude at First Itachi was like "delete them" and then Guy showed up and he was like "nah let's roll" and that's from the Gary Stew of the series.
And EOS Kakashis expression "is that Guy?" Says it all. The win loss records from villains is also in Guys favor.
Kakashi glazing is Crazy
Disagree
@@ThunderGodTG exactly.
No version of Kakashi is comparable to 7th Gate Guy.
Same goes to Six Gate ( closer tho ).
It’s not even kakashi glazing as much as it is just straight up denying guy.
They say that him being called the blue beast doesn’t necessarily relate to 7th gate and cast doubt on whether 7th gate is relevant 3-4 years later…like? He’s the blue beast just cuz??
bruh its not kakashi glazing its just fax. state the part that is kakashi glazing . state it i wanna know
@@NateKh-i6t part one they were glazing Kakashi. Guy at that point wasn’t a flushed out character so of course the data books didn’t have much details about him. We hardly saw his moves nor was he on screen much. So, of course, it be more difficult to compare the two, but they said by the end of part one they’re giving it to Kashi.
Had to stop when they said that Part 1 Kakashi could take 6 Gate Guy…..
And to even question is Guy trains, like that’s all you see him doing.
The databooks only tell you information that the author wants you to know at that time. Guys first data book entry wouldn’t include the fact that he can Open the Eighth Gate because that’s not something we need to know.
Guy beats Kakashi at all points. He just Opens the Eighth Gate and wins. Granted her dies after, but it’s easy to assume that he wins with Seventh Gate and just get crippled. I see no instance of Kakashi winning other than end of War Arc, Perfect Susanoo.
I understand the disagreement on the 6th gate point that’s fair, the training part I literally clarified right then and there so let’s stop that right now.
Guy can have knowledge of how to open all gates but can still physically be unable to do so which is supported by all his training, which is why it’s ambiguous.
With the training part, I was saying that even questioning if Guy trained or not seemed like a very weird thing to speculate on at all. You did go on to say that he did train, but even implying that it was up for questioning seemed like a very weird point. If that makes sense.
And I agree it is ambiguous, but even giving the lowest level of assumption possible; im pretty sure Lee could open 5 gates in part 1, then to say Guy can only open 1 more than him seems like a very lowballing estimation. But even giving Guy just 6 Gates in Part 1, and then 7-8 gates come part 2, I think if it was a true fight to the death and both characters go all out Guy wins in just about ever instance.
However, If Guy is wanting to survive after the fight then it would give Kakashi some more instances of victory
Base to base kakashi wins
Gates 1-4 guy vs kakashi 3T sharingan kakashi wins gears 5-6 debatable and 7th i feel takes the fight mid-high diff.
DMS vs 8 gates depends on if you think Guys spacial warping would allow him to hit kakashi. If so Guy wins and then dies, if not Kakashi probably barely outlasts Guy or loses then Guy dies anyway
dms is stomping guy. he has kamui remember and his kamui in dms in way stronger than in base so easy win for kakashi
Honestly, the feats are impressive for guy. But, as close as they are in power, Kakashi is a smarter fighter with a more impressive arsenal. Lethal Kakashi wouldn’t let guy just stand around and open gates. Guy will have to open the gates and not get tricked or caught in a non-sharingon or sharingon genjutsu, or get caught off guard by the world around shifting and clones laying around, not to mention if he hits a lightning clone.
I always think it should be noted that the only two people uninjured from when the Akatsuki first came to the leaf were Guy and Itachi,
Kisame, Kakashi, Asuma, and Kurenai all got hurt.
Guy is clearly > Kakashi he says it in his introduction and it’s never disputed by anyone
What do you think about a video about Shigaraki (BnHA), Sukuna, or Makima taking on the Akatsuki gauntlet one on one? Where will they individually stop? Or will at least one of them clears the Akatsuki?
I’ve been wanting to do Sukuna/Shigaraki for a while so I can def do tjat
the issue is, you take chidori as a general 10x boost, but the issue is, chidori works the way it works, if gai is relative to kakashi he could dodge it without much issues and chidori is an attack, you dodge it, you're good, gai got his multiplier all the time because it's a stat boost unlike chidori which is just a really fast charge in a straight line, assuming gai is even remotely close to chidori's speed he can dodge it if it's not an ambush attack but actual fight. So no it's not 10x boost to speed and power, its a 10x stronger attack, which mind you is easy to dodge as it is just kakashi running in a straight line.
So there's no way kakashi actually wins against gai unless he just goes madara-mode and decides to just tank it. Also it is chakra depleting and kakashi part1 / shippuden kakashi prior to war arc is really weak in terms of stamina which gives guy even easier W. So it means simply: if they're equal in base which was pretty much the case then gai is whatever the gate he can open at this time multiplier times stronger than kakashi but maybe if kakashi hits one extremely obvious attack he may win, and well, as they know each other really well it's pretty much another advantage for gai (gai uses brute force taijutsu so its not really a help to kakashi, kakashi on the other hand uses strategy, tactics, trick etc, which will pretty surely make it easier for gai who for 99% knows most of them because they're friends/rivals for so damn long, right he isn' any sort of strategic genius like kakashi so he most likely won't take that big of advantage of every one of kakashi's trick but still, it is a big help for him (it's also the case for later matchups mind you)
Also databooks are pretty lame source tbh. Just sayin, yk
War arc is debatable due to his kamui's and stamina feats, gai could simply run out of steam faster than him and be easy kill due to 7th gate exhaustion this one would need some better scaling of gai's gates because the one provided is just too unspecified and depends mostly on pure speculation. I'd say its more like 60/40 in favor of kakashi from what we get here. After that it's pretty simple, kakashi gets oneshot by 8 gates, pretty easily.
8 gates vs dms is pretty debatable too in fact (outside of kakashi just going kamui till gai dies, cuz thats nodiff W for kakashi but that is just boring and if it was a lets say death battle episode, no plot involved, just who wins, he'd most likely do gai dirty and just let him die while chilling in kamui, but i want to go for "what if" so its actually more interesting)
So what if dms kakashi actually fought gai without taking the easiest W in the world. Well, its mostly a W for kakashi as well due to being able to kamui dodge attacks and gai having a timer, but it gives much better chances for gai. His kamui shurikens worked on kaguya right, she's theoritically stronger than madara, right (tho in a real fight madara would probs mop the floor with her face due to difference in skill)
but remember that firstly, kamui shuriken is a endurance negating jutsu, not just really strong one, secondly, well kaguya is just kaguya, she just tries to flex her powers really hard but is no fighter to say the least, thats why she lost against team 7, bro she even got jumped by sakura even, name the other naruto antagonist who would actually get bamboozled by sexy jutsu lmao.
Against kaguya dms kakashi would be an S tier counter while guy being lets say D Tier but i really doubt guy would just let himself get hit by shuriken while in eight gates and kakashi surviving night guy or whatever the gai would throw at him, he almost oneshot madara, maybe not fully amped but still
Kakashi would have a massive edge over gai but gai would actually have a win condition there and well, he was pretty damn fast to throw around juubidara like that with his combo.
Also some scalings were made up from statements that could be 1. being there just for plot reasons 2. misunderstood
Well is someone actually managed to get thru all of this you have god-like patience, thanks, have a nice day
That is true, there’s no way guy is getting hit by the lightning blade, his speed feats are beyond kakashis by a huge margin until DMS
I knew there was a handsign where one person flicks the other off. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
4:57 Guy has been stronger than Kakashi all of Naruto until DMS Kakashi.
Look how they performed in their fight against Kisame and Itachi, Kakashi got BODIED and Guy cane out Unharmed just like Itachi. Kisame even made nite of Guy’s abilites and wanted Guy to remember him. Even during the timeskip I believe its stated Kakashi went through rigorous training to unlock new abilities etc whereas Guy did his same training and still maintained his strength gap over kakashi.
Kakashi needed a Sharingan ti jeep track of one of Guy’s student’s Neji whos implied to be on Kakashi’s lvl or stronger.
Question: Would the space bending effect of Night Guy not possibly negate DMS Kamui? I'm not sure how Kamui works on a more metaphysical level but the implication seemed to be that Night Guy warps anything between Guy and his target? Hard to say but I feel like it wouldn't be as simple as a kamui snipe.
Its stated Guy has a 51 wins 49 losses record against Kakashi, which sound like an even match... Until you realize guy never opened gates when they would fight one another. So base guy was slightly above kakashi who had sharingan and a crazy amount of jutsu.
I haven’t watched yet. I think Base
Guy and
Sharingan Kakashi are incredibly relative in terms of general stats however Kakashi had the edge for me due to having the superior arsenal and likely battle IQ as well, though Guy is far from dumb. I think Raikiri Kakashi’s speed rivals 6th Gate Guy, some people question this but I actually think it’s consistent. Especially considering that Sasuke was considered Gaara’s strongest opponent above Lee with the 5th Gate, with exam finals Sasuke and Weightless Lee being relative in terms of combat speed. I’d argue this sets a precedent for raikiri being above a 5th Gate amp in speed that remains consistent throughout the series. Kakashi obviously doesn’t have the same AOE attacks as Guy does with gates which is why I think some people don’t think he could scale to him, but I don’t think that’s valid they just have different strengths.
Also do Hiruzen vs. The Akatsuki.
I am actually scripting Hiruzen vs the akatsuki today cause of your last comment bro 😂👌🏻
@@ThunderGodTG ayyyyeeeeeeeeeee let’s go bro I swear I cooked when I thought of that
You also cooked with that exams comparison.
Hiruzen vs all Akatsuki or 1v1 ? Nagato negg diff him
Obito negg diff him .
@@edemizi9464 Obviously 1v1 lol , and I agree
from the start of naruto guy beats every version of kakashi except dms, not including boruto of course.
Why is guys speed equal to kakashi's at base form and also during open gates. Just some writers bull that makes no sense. Like nerf rock lee speed vs gara. Gag characters that make no sense.
They're equal. Kakashi's dimension hopping and shaaringan combined with his physical stats and mind can dodge a lot of guys' attacks
Why wouldn’t guy not have access to all of the gates just from part 1, like rock lee was able to reach the 5th gate at 12, one can only assume he can open whatever gate necessary
He can know how to open all of them but not physically be able to yet which would explain why he continued training his physicality, each gate is an INSANE jump from the last
@@ThunderGodTGso kakashi wank. Got it!
Pain waited for Guy to leave before he even dared to attack Konoha!
"OMFG! Guy is not there! Time to rock n' roll!"
14 mins ago? 🎉🎉❤ lets goo
It's never mentioned that in all battles with both of them that guy never used a gate. can't believe that kakashi and keep up with even the 3rd or 4th gate.
2 uploads per week, let’s make it happen🙏
Kakashi vs Tobirama?
Man any fight with the soul purpose to kill and not be killed in which guy has to open the eighth gate is a draw guy can’t win a fight to the death if the only way he wins is by suicide.
16:27 I don't think that's a question. Guy is always training.
I don’t see kakashi with susano as kakashi vs guy I see it as obito and kakashi vs guy which is no longer a 1v1
Plus hiradora is island size bro him kamiu never tranport an object that big
lol the other dude goes with kakashi every time without any good arguments
Only kid/teen Kakashi and two sharingan eye Kakashi is the only 2 Kakashi's that can beat Guy.
Guy is 10x stronger than 5 kages combined.
I really don't think clone Itachi is any stronger than clone Kisame. Edo Itachi and healthy Itachi might be stronger than Kisame, but Clone Itachi is extremely nerfed from loosing MS abilities.
Also important to remember that Kisame has pretty much tailed beast level amounts of chakra. Which means that Kisame clone can almost fight normally with the 40% of chakra reserves they have. While Itachi can't use MS and also has to be careful not to use other huge jutsu.
Gui was so strong pein had to wait until he left the village to invade tells a lot!
Pt 1 guy and Kakashi being basically even in their competitions would be a good argument for anbu kakashi being stronger because guy probably started closing the gap in pt 1 when Kakashi was on a decline
Good point!
I don’t think they were even in fights. Their matches are on a bunch of different things.
Sorry but 8th gate guy obliterates dms
Congrats on 20k (belated LOL but it didn’t even register to me until today) you def deserve it!
As for the matchup, well I always thought Guy had the edge on Kakashi and that their rivalry usually measures base to base (or at most the first gate vs the sharingan). He’s definitely stronger physically for most of the series but like…is Guy gonna throw nunchucks at Kamui? Is he gonna judo chop Kamui??? Lmao.
Thank you king✊🏻🔥
Gai could almost certainly open all of the Gates in Part 1 tbh. Lee had 5 Gates at 13 and it’s unlikely that Gai was capped at the same place that his barely teenage student was. He’d been using them since he was a child. Yamato also recognizes Afternoon Tiger, so he’s seen it before. He was in the ANBU and probably hasn’t been on a ton of missions with Gai. This suggests that he’s had it for a long time.
First
you have so many mistakes
You have ignored so much evidence it is simply ridiculous.
you are amateurs
Spit king let me know
What do you mean that green and blue have the same kanji? They don't. Blue is 青 and green is 緑. 🤨
No that is the Kanji for Midori which was added about 100 Years ago, different countries have different takes. The actual kanji used in the panel is the Blue Kanji you listed that can be used for both. It’s a little weird they added another Kanji that can also be used for green.
Guy so underrated
Karan goes to Baruch
Another BANGER from the GOAT💪
So you read all your comments bro? My guy my friend mi amigo ima have to leave you a doozie lmfao
So my boy I’m Tom aka Thomas Headen. Been an anime Fam for a minute but didn’t get crazy into it till I went to Japan on my second deployment in the marine corps. Got crazy pictures from my time in Tokyo. Real talk there was a man doing the business in the back corner or the underground store. You know what I mean absolutely hilarious to see.
Anyways. Ya boy owns a detailing a business: PrimeTime Auto Detail, LLC and I’m trying to run it up this year. Just had a son in November and he’s the first blood relative I’ve ever met. Like the only blood I have in this planet that I know of. Yes sir ya boy was adopted at birth so I’m the definition of you pick your family lol. Getting things in order trying to get out there and get know and imolementing a 10x business plan but the reason I fuk with you so hard is I imagine we are the same person in a different life yaahhh meannnn? You talk similarly to how I speak. You think the same way I think and you’re extremely articulate and studied.
I also hail from EST area specifically OH outta Akron so that’s what’s up. But you got the expansive mind that I be looking to for newer people in my life. Trying to only grow life is too short and I’m too blessed to be stress over the nonsense of small minded individuals you feel me?
Im in recovery. Had a battle with addiction and alcoholism so I’ve hit the reset button and kicked that sht outta my life and I’ve been growing since. 2 years clean and sober in 2 weeks so that’s pretty nice man.
I also am a dog at smash I’m tryin to tell you bro get on the sticks and let’s see whats really good fool ya fool lmao
That’s a little about me man definitely a lot more but this comment about to be long Asf and idk the UA-cam character count so we gotta call it here. Hit me back at some point. Or just like subscribe comment you know comments good for the UA-cam Algorithm. Hopefully we on the right wavelength like I’m thinking and you can get dusted up on the sticks some time. I sent you my code in another comment I’ll have to find but I think it’s in the same thread on this video as the other one you responded to. Peace 🤙🏽💯
Nobody has beaten an Akatsuki duo. Not at the same time (and there's reason for this). I'm so sorry, Guy doesn't really stand a chance against Kisame and Itachi. Kisame he can fight. But he just isn't beating BOTH of them, you can "look at Itachi's feet" me until you're blue in the face, you can "he fight MADARA" me to eternity, this just doesn't change the math.
So War Arc Kakashi vs Akatsuki member how far does he get ?
War Arc kakashi beats all the Akatsuki member. He also wins against orange mask Obito but loses to white mask Rinnegan Obito
@@hakumgr8654 I think Nagato Itachi and Obito would be a problem for him. I think he could beat itachi but not Obito. Tho if he did it would be because he outsmarted Obito
@@jason15212 Yeah defo, they would be a challenge for kakashi especially edo Nagato. Yep, I agree kakashi wins against Itachi due to kakashi having higher feats than him in the war arc. With orange mask Obito it’s hella iffy due to Obito having the ability to use Izanagi on his left eye, due to spare Sharingan.
@@hakumgr8654 Even alive Nagato(pain) is a problem to deal with given kakashi’s fighting style. Obito and Itachi are more similar and easier to imagine how they would go down. I think he’d outlast Itachi by a little bit. I think Kakashi can somewhat go toe to toe with Itachi sharingan perception wise by then too. If he can get around Itachi’s Susanoo or kill him before he uses it he wins.
@@jason15212 Lol nah not alive Nagato, bro literally on his death bed. Tbh only like Deva and Asura Path of pain is strong the rest of the path of pains is pretty much fodder. He’ll prob just use a lightning or shadow clone to against the weak version of pains whilst he fight the two strongest pains. War arc Kakashi would just speed blitz the two of them, or he’ll just GG no re Kamui them.
my name is deez
When guy confronted itachi he specifically said knows how to counter sharigan. That in itself means he beats kakashi. And if kakashi doesnt have the sharigan he loses. So either way kakashi loses. Now if guy didnt know how to fight or nullify the sharigan then he wouldd lose to kakashi. Hes kakashi and sharigan cryptonite. Its very clear thats what guy is.
First
Despite his tragic backstory and obvious hax, he is unable to contest guy’s strength at the highest level. ESPECIALLY on his own merits.
Following Anbu Kakashi which is debatable then its always Guy. Then ofc after Guy uses 8 gates it's Kakashi again
E: Kaguya is not stronger than Madara :I
more vids with six and perhaps swagkage plsssss
Kage yes Sux no
I feel like Anbu Kakashi was the last time Kakashi was stronger. After that Guy had the 8 Gates, even if we don’t see him use them we know he could open all 8 gates. Plus Madaras sharingan didn’t help him much with the 8th gate and he was way better with using the sharingan than Kakashi ever could be. I don’t get why TG thinks Guy couldn’t bust out 7th or 8th gate in part 1. I think when Guy is in base his stats are comparable to Kakashi, maybe higher since he never stops training. 4th gate probably makes him equal to Kakashi with sharingan. Only reason people think Kakashi is stronger is because he is constantly with the main character giving him way more screen time.
When you guy were talking about later in part one. Guy most definitely could open all gates he told Lee that when he had a flashback when Lee was opening the gates against gaara. So technically and respectfully guy was the most powerful shinobi in the series until Naruto and saskue got that six paths boost
Wish Gai and Asuma had more fights. Asuma clearly outclassed Hidan so I wonder how he would’ve faired against other Akatsuki members
Honestly, he probably dies to any other member one V1. Would be a good fight though.
Didn't Asuna say that Hidan is stronger than him? Or maybe he's talking about Kakuzu? It's been a while since I last read the Akatsuki Supression Mission arc
@@kodoqbesar4301 It’s been a while since I read/watched that episode but I would say they were more so talking about Kakuzu
@@jason15212 They were taking about Hidan. Sauna was weaker than him, but not overwhelmingly. He was considered a threat, while the other three were mostly disregarded at the time.
When they were kids/teenagers kakashi was stronger, and as adults guy is stronger the only way kakashi can beat him is with dms / 6 paths amp
I feel shows should only have databook stats if the series was meant to have them. Otherwise it just seems like the publisher companys janitor wrote some fanfiction they decided to try squeezing a few bucks out of.
One thing is that there is not a chance that Part 1 Guy only had 5th gate because Lee had 5th gate so Guy would have to have at least 6th but more than likely 7th. He got 8th some time in Shippuden or during the time skip but he definitely was above 5th in part 1.
Itatchi wasnt trying to murk Kakashi...Kisame was
Kisame did nothing ;because itachi saved Kakashi ; kisame would destroy this version of Kakashi no diff
@@edemizi9464 I don't doubt it as he was rusty & pretty sure the femboy + zabuza almost clapped em
8 gates guy. Tho dms kakashi was pretty dope
yea dms stomps eight gates guy
Always a pleasure bro 🫡
King shit ✊🏻🔥
Great video. I agree with all the points made. But I do have to question how would a fight between the two would end character-wise. In character, the two wouldn’t use any of their high level attacks against each other. Kakashi definitely isn’t pulling out the Raikiri or kamui against guy nor is guy realistically going past the 3-4 gate. Both would leave the two hospitalized regardless of fight outcome, leaving two of the strongest Shinobi in the leaf unable to go on missions for a period of time.
8th gate guy is very clearly faster than anything after him you guys crazy.
Give me some prep time ill make an argument for haku against the field
Insane name from that guy! But I look forward to watching the video! 0:57
Yeh I’m gonna go to Baruch soon to get my degree from there
At this point ThunderGod would have to be paid to give a bad take, because he just doesn’t miss! Again at this point we should just start calling TG the Naruto Deadshot 🙏🏾🔥🔥
Nah you ain’t have to gas me up like this I appreciate it fam 🙏🏻
The Naruto Deadshot lmao, I like that
@@takatotakasui8307 preciate the compliment lol
@@ThunderGodTG just had to make sure the community knows and doesn’t forget we’re in the presence of a legend! Lol 😂
boing! boing! boing!
"King? Yeah, here's your crown."
8th gate guy va dms kakashi
dms stomps. Kamui gg so.Also kakashi in base was relative to kcm minato so imagine his speed in dms when he got more chakra to sustai such speed for longer periods of time.Also his reaction time is very good he was able to kamui a rasengan that naruto in kcm weilded when he moved full speed when fighting obito.Yea dms kakashi wins
I’m rewatching this just to hate on Sage
TF DID SAGE DO LMAO
@@ThunderGodTG A running joke. He really thought it didn’t extend past his discord server tho
Great vid. Can't say i disgree with anything either
8 gates wins however Guy wouldn't use it on his best friend. It's against his Ninja code. So I'll take Kakashi in every fight. Do to Guy's ninja way
It's a hypothetical, it doesn't have to make narrative sense.
In a fight to the death Guy will always win if he's given the chance of using the 8th gate and he's pressed on to doing it (which means that he wins close to a 100%). It doesn't mean that Guy is overall more useful as a ninja than Kakashi is though (he can use the 8th gate just once after all)
Wasn't 7g gai sparring with Juubidara? Lol he outperformed SM Minato against him.
Nothing in that scene implies Madara struck back he literally was just defending, one hand is on his staff the other on his side with every frame of him is with his hands down it’s clear he’s just blocking.
guy literally runs around sleeping