Just a reminder of Pain vs Kurenai and Asuma. Pain wrecked the whole leaf village including Kurenai. So unless Asuma was that big a difference, pains got this
As a whole with shinra tensei Asuma doesn't make much of a difference. However he's well skilled enough that with a proper strategy he could be utilized very well. Especially in a team with Kakashi, Choji, and Choza.
We did not keep with that somewhat here but he ain’t cleaning the leaf for shit, pains stamina reserves make Itachi look like a Genin. Not saying Itachi has low reserves but, Pain’s are just that massive.
He would do fine. He just wouldn't do it like Pain. Pain is careless because he has the luxury of 6 lives and tons of Chakra. Itachi literally ALWAYS uses the least amount of moves and Chakra necessary to win his fight (which he also always does. Zero -Ls. Pain has 1 and Nagato has 1). Funny you mention it too because Pains L was literally because he invaded Konoha.
Are we forgetting that Nagato was able to sense Kabuto while Kabuto used a jutsu to hide himself from beimg sensed even though he was in edo, others couldn't sense him?!!
@@PuffPuffPass123 I don't think itachi and Sasuke had any sensory ability so to say, I think what you be. Referring to was when itachi used his susano to protect Sasuke, to which itachi said he bet on the odds that Kabuto was more likely to attack Sasuke
The only thing I had an issue with was when you got to the Naruto vs Pain scenario. Because if these battles are swappe, Ma and Pa would have intel on on Itachi’s genjutsu and would just let Naruto know to not look him in the eye. And you state “in character” when Naruto isn’t exactly a dunce. He has been on the receiving end of genjutsus before. He has seen what Itachi did to Sasuke so I’m pretty sure he will know not to look him in the eye. Imo Sage Naruto vs Itachi will be an extremely close fight. Naruto can simply close his eyes and just sense Itachi which would probably bypass itachi’s clones… snd you have to remember Naruto flung that rasen shuriken from a quite a distance so the closer he is the harder it is for Itachi to avoid it. One hit from this will kill Itachi and I probably think one or two punches from a sage mode amped Naruto will kill him too. I dont see Itachi withstanding punches from someone flinging a giant rhino that prob weight a shit load of TONS all the way up into the air. Amateurasu is probably not a good idea since pushing Naruto to that near death state might end up triggering Kurama to play a role into this. And I do not see Itachi surviving an onslaught with a 6 tailed version kyubi cloak that pain had to deal with. (Or was it 4 I cant remember) and Itachi doesn’t have no chibaku tensei to help him. You also claim the Yadamir “rips apart”… May I ask how? It’s a shield with no offensive capabilities so what exactly is Itachi going to do with his slow clunky susano. Bonk Naruto on the head with the shield? The totska blade on the other hand IS offensive but again you dont know how fast itachi can swing it so its not true to thing he’s gonna ever going to land that thing on a sage mode Naruto. Even if he’s going up against a beserk kyubi cloak Naruto it then doesn’t actually matter because kyubi cloaked Naruto that fought pain is blitzing itachi. There is no one on this planet that can sit here and tell me itachi is fast as this thing. Absolutely no.. no chance… and just remember pain did NOT win against thing thing. He was completely defensive and was forced to use chibaku tensei. He could not handle the onslaught that was dished out and that chibaku tensei just made it worse… I dont think Itachi can sit inside his susano for long periods of time. And im pretty sure that Yadamir isn’t omi directional so if he’s taking back shots then i really dont know. Susano wont be a 100% total win for Itachi and if that thing Naruto just outlast him he loses. Susano is said to take a shit ton of chakra to manifest AND maintain so good luck trying to outlast Naruto’s chakra reserve.
Literally the most spot on comment on this whole post! No way can Itachi sustain first Sage Mode Naruto and then (if it even comes to that) the 6-Tails Cloak Naruto… It’s not a ‘diss’ to Itachi, but that fight is above his (and most of other ninja) tier
@@nbogavac Your comment is so illogical it's easy to debunk. Itachi one shot Orochimaru, Itachi boxed with KCM 1 Naruto, Itachi one shot Kakashi, Itachi beat Snake Sage Kabuto. Itachi is one tapping Sage mode Naruto that couldn't defeat a weakened Pain even with a lot of help. Itachi is also packing up the 6 tails Naruto form, Itachi has better speed, better haxs, bigger arsenal of jutsus, smarter and more crafty, not nearly as exhausted as Pain was. Itachi shoots the amaterasu at 6 tails Naruto then instantly puts him under Tsukuyomi or if that doesn't work instantly gets rid of him with the blade of sealing. Naruto isn't touching Itachi in his Susanoo anyways, the yata mirror prevents that.
@@theflamingeagle572 the anime makes it look like six tails Naruto and pain were moving at much higher speeds than when kcm Naruto and itachi exchanged blows even though the implication is that kcm is faster. We know that kurama’s chakra negates Amaterasu. I agree with Naruto not having great ways around the susanno/ yata. I don’t like that the yata mirror doesn’t have any real feats but that’s a different conversation entirely. And he only “one shots” oro because of genjutsu which Naruto isn’t immune to. In fact you could argue he’s quite susceptible to it as he doesn’t know how to deal with the tsukuyomi until kcm or at least that was the first time he ran into itachi while having that knowledge.
@@theflamingeagle572 yeah I can see that but at the same time just go back and see both scenes and how they make pains legs look while he’s running away from and towards six tales Naruto. Compare that to what looks like a casual clash of fists between kcm Naruto and itachi. While what you said makes sense I think it makes just as much sense that even if kcm Naruto capable of moving faster than he did in six tails state, doesn’t mean he was moving faster than that in the exchange with itachi based on how the anime makes it look anyways. Because we know the anime has its way of implying high speed in a fight.
Wait I just realized, if orochimaru won against itachi and stole his body he would immediately regret it as he would be blind coughing up blood and constantly run out of stamina even when fighting fodder
@@aliveghost368 did orochimaru have hashirama cells before his white zetsu body? I thought he only gave them to danzo, Shin,Yamato and the 59 dead fetus’ in his lab
@KeizerSosebee I wonder that too, but why wouldn't he?, given that he has successfully implanted Hashirama's cells to Danzou, and Danzou knows that they make him stronger.
@@KeizerSosebee Orochimaru was the true underdog all along I think it was only the body that he was using at that moment that was incompatible with sage mode.
I have a question. How strong would Ishidate from Naruto movie 3 be if he was in the main story? In the movie, he's comparable to base Kakashi and can turn anything he touches into stone. He can also control stone and levitate with stones. But he got overwhelmed when Naruto's multi shadow clone jutsu literally trampled him and knocked him out. So i will say that he's weaker than sick Kimimaro, and IMO is a solid Jonin level because he keep up with Kakashi. What do you guys think?
I don’t know if you can really take anything from that Kakashi vs Itachi clone thing tbh. I think based off of how Itachi treats Kakashi in part 1 by automatically going to his most powerful technique always came off like he was trying to avoid a drawn out fight between the 2 of them. That point is further driven home once we realize why Itachi was really there. It wasn’t about naruto it was about making sure Sasuke was ok getting in and out the village without causing too much drama or blowing his cover. So he had to rid of Kakashi while making it look like he intended to kill him but without actually fighting him.
Exactly itachi knows his best bet against kakashi is to use one of his top 3 techniques, these itachi fans acts as if base itachi stomps kakashi. Clearly they are itachi fan boys based in this video
One thing I sort of disagree with is your statements of Itachi's stamina based off of his fight with Sasuke. I'm not saying Itachi has no stamina but rather you might be over estimating it. My reasoning is that the Itachi who preformed those feats was fighting with the intent to die and was likely heavily amped from from his resolve. But despite that he still has way more stamina than what most people claim and it's hard to tell how much those things actually affected him.
Think about it like this he literally out stamina’d Hebi Sasuke who’s stamina reserves are monsterous and can hold back on other akatsuki members. Assume tho that in each scenario Itachi can just push himself to that point
@@ThunderGodTG I can't deny he's obviously capable of it but rather that he would do it in almost any other situation. Sort like how a mother could lift a car to save their child but in any other situation she wouldn't or couldn't. That being said it's absurdly difficult to tell how much a difference it would make and even more so I don't think this would have made Itachi lose a battle you said he'd probably win in the video. It's more of a passing thought that I put out to see other's opinions
I will say if you're going to try Star Rail do it off this video, Dr. Ratio is awesome lorewise and Ruan Mei is broken and super fun. Her banner is not going much longer but you could probably guarantee her if you speedrun because of the large number of new player pulls. The game is genuinely fun but game responsibly if you know you have trouble with gambling/gacha elements
People forget that sage mode Naruto is a tier above Jiraiya's sage mode. The one Path of Pain was clobbering Jiraiya while Naruto one shotted the same Path with a single punch. This was the Path that was going after Tsunade and Naruto stepped in and took out.
The thumbnail teaser got me a little excited for this one. Based on the thumbnail alone, I was going to say Pain clears everything up to Sage Kabuto and Itachi only clears Kakashi. I was saving the full wall of text effort for a hypothetical Sasuke video that may or may not be coming eventually, but I'll do it for this one because it's such a fun topic. Just going to lay this out at the start, Itachi has a way tougher set of fights to deal with because Pain's caliber of opponent is consistently higher due to him generally being stronger and requiring stronger narrative forces to fight him with one exception. Hanzo vs Itachi: Pretty cut and dry, Itachi has no chance. You don't even need to go very deep on this one because Hanzo's lore implications are so crazy due to being able to wage war against Prime Hiruzen at all. Hanzo also stared down Gedo Mazo and the Soul Sealing Dragon without blinking, which is rather telling. This can succinctly be be done by direct comparison as well in that Itachi ran away from Jiraiya who barely survived a fight against Hanzo. Asuma and Kurenai vs Pain: At least Asuma dies before having his kid in this time line. But really, there was a little bit of downplay. Genjutsu was shown to be effective against the Paths of Pain in the form of Ibiki during Pain's Invasion, and Kurenai has statements regarding her as the Leaf's most adept Genjutsu user which would place her above Ibiki on that statement. Losing a Genjutsu battle against Itachi isn't exactly an anti-feat because that would happen to almost everyone in the series. Asuma was able to out do Hidan in a full brawl and has some good techniques, as well as had the respect of Kakashi and Guy. It's reasonable to say that between Asuma and Kurenai together could beat at least one Path. Sage Jiraiya vs Itachi: Pretty cut and dry, Itachi has no chance. This is probably the spiciest take that I have, but I still think base Jiraiya stomps Itachi. Itachi doesn't have defense against Swamp of the Underworld. There are arguments to be made about Gamabunta being too skilled of a boss summon for Itachi as well just on the grounds that he fought Kurama and Shukaku and won, but I don't think they matter so much here. The argument that Sage Mode takes too much time for Jiraiya to summon is nonsensical because he was able to do it against Pain, who was pretty much the strongest person on the planet at that point in time. If Jiraiya can get into Sage Mode against Pain, few people could ever stop him from doing it. Totsuka Blade has only hit targets that were not moving. The only realistic win condition for Itachi is Tsukuyomi, which seems unlikely given how knowledgeable Jiraiya is about genjutsu and not falling for combat tricks in general. If Jiraiya gets Sage Mode, genjutsu does not work on him due to his chakra constantly being disrupted by Ma and Pa. None of this analysis really matters though because we do in fact have an explicit non-ambiguous statement about this match up that people choose to ignore for whichever reason they choose. Guy vs Pain: This one wasn't in the thumbnail so I was happy to see it in the video. I like this one a lot because it goes in to Part 1 Guy scaling, which is interesting to me. One of the first statements we have about Guy is word for word "Truth is, I'm stronger than Kakashi." and it is completely accurate when he says it. Kakashi is still out of practice at that point in time, which Kakashi admits to himself after Kabuto outplays him. Guy's nickname of Blue Beast implies that he has Hirudora at this point, and that people have seen him use it. This implies that Old Hiruzen, Tsunade and Jiraiya are all above that Guy even with Hirudora considered as they were Hokage candidates and Guy was not. Hirudora was necessary for Guy's defeat of Kisame, and we know that Kisame is below Pain and Jiraiya. The conclusion that you come to in the video of "Even Hirudora probably can't beat Pain." is 100% correct. Small edit here: I wanted to add on that when Guy shows up to fight Kisame and Itachi in Part 1, Itachi says bluntly "Do not underestimate him." and we know from some later Part 2 info that Itachi has seen Guy use up to five gates and was awestruck. Figured Guy could use a little bit of respect after I put him down a bit. Sage Naruto vs Itachi: This is the match up I was most excited for and I was hoping it made up the bulk of the video and I think this is the most fair match even if I lean towards Naruto. Sage Naruto gets unrivaled levels of downplay in general. The discussion on this fell short for me. Precog doesn't get mentioned at all. Sharingan reading movement would not work on Frog Kata, which one shot Pain bodies. Naruto knows not to get hit by Tsukuyomi at this point, so it doesn't matter if it's GG if it hits. Sage Naruto throws hands with Third Raikage and wins. During Edo Itachi's encounter with KCM Naruto during the War Arc, panel by panel, Naruto blocks and dodges every single attack from Itachi and does not attempt a single attack on Itachi because he is just trying to talk to him. KCM Naruto is clearly above Itachi in raw stats at that point, even if Itachi has him dwarfed in IQ. Sage Naruto is on the same level as KCM Naruto for a multitude of reasons. I feel like this match up honestly deserves its own video after thinking on it more. Hebi Sasuke vs Pain: Pretty cut and dry, Sasuke has no chance. Direct comparison in that Deidara would fight against Itachi but not Pain, and Sasuke barely scraped the win against Deidara despite the excellent match up. Kakashi vs Itachi: This one is eating at me a bit. My gut says Kakashi gets destroyed, but Kakashi managed a few tricks against Pain, Headhunter also hits from underneath, and Kamui landing is GG. Pain is a much harder match, so I think Kakashi might be able to take this one a few times. I would need to think on it and parse more. Just a note: Kakashi and Itachi have a great deal of narrative comparisons regarding prodigiousness. Kakashi was inventing a jutsu at the age of ten, and Itachi wasn't doing that. Kakashi states several times that Itachi will become a better ninja than him during his depression. It's reasonable to conclude that Kakashi might have innate talent superior to Itachi even if I don't necessarily subscribe to that. The only return we get on Kakashi's thoughts towards Itachi is that Kakashi would willingly fight him, but we saw how that played out multiple times. Orochimaru vs Pain: We saw this one. It didn't go well for Orochimaru. Orochimaru lost to Itachi, tried again, then made a life long plan to defeat him. Orochimaru lost to Pain and said "Yeah nevermind." I'm not sure if Konan's statement on the other Akatsuki members being insignificant applies to Orochimaru because it's unclear if he was there when she said it, but it establishes the ladder pretty clearly because Orochimaru compares rather unfavorably to Akatsuki members that were there. Six Tails Naruto vs Itachi: I would need to reread or rewatch the Six Tails Naruto stuff for this. Six Tails Naruto was destroying the landscape by existing and Pain had to sit up in his chair to take him him on. I'm not sure if Six Tails Naruto can punch through Susanoo, but that just places the time crunch on Itachi to defeat Naruto before Susanoo kills him. I doubt Six Tails Naruto has the awareness to avoid Tsukuyomi that regular Naruto would. We saw Sasuke's genjutsu, even if very briefly, put down cloaked Killer Bee so it doesn't seem like a stretch to say Itachi's could work on Six Tails Naruto. I'm wondering on if Six Tails Naruto would just shrug it off though considering there isn't really much mental there to break in the first place. My gut says Six Tails, but there might be a case for Tsukuyomi GG here. Sage Kabuto vs Red Hair Nagato: White Extreme Attack is not genjutsu, this part of the video is incorrect. It is ninjutsu and senjutsu. White Extreme Attack literally cripples you with physical sound waves by rattling the bones in your body. The reason it didn't work on Itachi is because he was an infinitely regenerating zombie that can not be defeated by physical attacks. Nagato might be able to absorb White Extreme Attack, but it's so fast that I legitimately don't know if it Nagato can react to it and know to seal it at all if Sasuke and Itachi couldn't even react to it. The genjutsu utilized by Kabuto is Tayuya's Phantom Sound Chains, which is the sound based genjutsu that comes from her Demonic Flute. Phantom Sound Chains isn't on the level of Frog Song, but it's probably enough to lock up Nagato if he gets caught by it. Sage Kabuto is just different and I don't think many characters can actually beat him in that cave, but Nagato might be one of them. If you're going to be generous and say that this Nagato is Edo Nagato, or just say that White Extreme Attack doesn't instantly win the fight because Nagato absorbs it or has durability to tank it, then I think Nagato destroying the cave is a win con for him or even soul rip to ignore Kabuto's durability. Kabuto having perfect intel is a problem, but I don't think it matters if the cave gets destroyed. Kabuto doesn't have the level of attack to put down multiple summons without Muki Tensei. This is the other fair match, but it comes down more to circumstance. As usual, another day of TG putting out the best video topics in the scene and giving some good insights and taking some nuanced views on things. Still waiting on that dedicated Sasuke video!
Bro your way downplaying itachi… Hanzo vs Itachi - itachi absolutely stomped a much stronger orochimaru with a base sharingan itachi is capable of beating all 3 sannin (he is literally able to 1 shot any of them) and is faster than fucking EMS sasuke & kcm naruto as a edo tensei which nerfed all his physical stats, bro is straight blitzing Hanzo who is weaker than fucking mifune 🤦🏻 Jiraiya vs itachi - bro first off Itachi was lying when he said he would lose to jiraiya, later feats absolutely body jiraiya Itachi is faster, more haxed, genjutsu stomps jiraiya etc… Jiraiya is literally not winning this 😅 Itachi was more impressive than kcm naruto Itachi fights kcm naruto and blocks everything naruto throws at him as well as dodges bee at the same time, he also out reacted both naruto & bee who got blitzed by nagato which Itachi also blitzed so Itachi on panel blitzed a guy that blitzed kcm naruto & killer bee at the same time… afterwards Itachi goes onto outperforming EMS sasuke to the point that sasuke looked absolutely useless… the same sasuke that’s equal to tobirama and KCM 2 naruto this is just to show how badly your downplaying 🤦🏻
After I watch TG's videos, I always scroll looking for your comment. The section you wrote about Guy is really good. Same with the Sage Naruto part. The corner cutting you take with Hanzo and Sasuke seems lazy and I usually don't like scaling in the form of "this person beats this person so this person beats this person", so I'm glad you provided the extra context for the Hanzo part at least.
Hiruzen was not a field fighter during the time the Sannin were fighting, there is nothing in the entire manga to suggest that. At all. And while ABC scaling isn’t perfect, somebody that was being rivaled by Chiyo is not touching someone who surpassed Tobirama in raw talent (prime Hiruzen). All we really have on Hanzo is that he beat up 3 much weaker Sannin (Jiraiya directly confirms he’s gotten stronger even in base due to the effects of Sage training have on the body) while he had an environmental advantage (The flashback has him standing in a lake). Itachi has the sharingan and has already easily dealt with someone that employs poisons, so the poison cloud is not taking him off guard. Ocular genjutsu is an extremely exotic power to the point that said Chiyo who fought Hanzo many times stated herself that she would rather run away from the sharingan if the fight was one on one.
In Naruto vs Itachi comparison, it's not just toads and Naruto Itachi would have to fight, but also the rest of the village as well. Against all those odds Itachi loses. Pain fought the village and Naruto, not just Naruto.
@@ThunderGodTG If you put him up against Naruto fresh in that fight he obviously wins, however the whole point of video is switching Pains and Itachi's position. So in order to retain some narrative balance you have to pretend he defeated village but make him fatigued and have a component of his kit exhausted. Also keep in mind Hinata would also jump in fight just at some point in fight narratively speaking that is what happens. Now the key deciding factor is what is decided as the exhausted part of his kit that he can't use. It would either have to be Amaterasu or Susaano since those are his only methods of dealing most damage to village. Then you can setup a narrative balance not just put him fresh and ready to go, since pain wasn't fresh and ready to go when Naruto arrived.
Keep in mind during the Hanzo fight we should assume the Sannin (for which he named) were most likely not in their prime. And they were hunched over and panting while Hanzo didn’t even appear out of breath in the slightest. When Pain/Nagato killed Hanzo he was in a much weaker state. Also on Genjutsu: perfect Jins are pretty much immune to most jutsu or rather their bijuu will break them out barring Tsukuyomi. And for me on Itachi VS Jiraiya; it depends. If Jiraiya is in Sage Mode at the start f the fight o give it to him very high diff. However if not, Itachi is going to low diff him. Itachi VS Sage Mode Naruto; don’t forget during the Pain fight Naruto had clones on wait gathering nature chakra. Depending on when and if Itachi knows about those clones, I get the feeling dispelling one of those clones for a surge of Nature Chakra would most likely break. Ari to out of genjutsu. Then he would have to deal with a raging Kurama. Fortunately for Itachi, he is born to deal with Kurama more so than Pain. Still think Itachi takes this one but it won’t be as one sided as ppl think.
Itachi was able to paralyze the majority of Sugaru's insects before he killed him with Amaterasu so he might actually be able to multi-target the AnBu. Against Kakashi and Chōza Itachi would also have to face the entire rest of the village. Version 2 can freely split/morph its chakra, even forming an almost second Naruto when Orochimaru punched it, so it might just glob off any Amaterasu that gets to it continuously, and it has more chakra to shed than Itachi has Amaterasu to cast. Nagato can read the build-up of chakra before a jutsu is used (he was able to tell Itachi was able to cast Amaterasu) so he might elect to absorb the White Rage Attack before it "explodes".
I would argue with Version 2 it’s not a 1:1 cause Naruto had perfect manipulation of the Kyuubi chakra vs the tailed beast just taking over. As far as Nagato sensing I agree but that doesn’t mean he has the physical ability to react like when he just gets tagged with Amaterasu despite seeing the builsup
Even the mindless Jūbi could detach parts of its flesh to save itself from Amaterasu and Version 2 does have the ability to almost split itself. Seems reasonable enough. If he can react to it he can pull/push the path out of the way or absorb it, as jutsu typically are just as fast as their reaction ability instead of physical ability (see Danzō's Wood Release).
Yeah the Juubi is just its own entity with its own properties, even a perfect Jinchuriki like bee couldn’t pull this maneuver off, 1-9 are much closer in what we can assert than the ten tails which is just different. For Nagato it’s more so determined on where you have him but that’s up to your opinion on the stat difference.
The 8 Tails does concede that the plan was last second and that all his tails did get burned. If you actually look at the panel Bee blocks the Amaterasu but it burns him nonetheless.
One thing I wish we could get is to actually see some of these fights that would help us scale certain characters like Hanzo, Tobirama, Some of Minato war feats, Etc…
Its literally 11:20 PM in my place so I'll watch this in the morning. But heres my takes - Itachi vs Hanzo: Itachi low diffs. I think its stated somehwere that Hanzo had gone a lot weaker when he was killed because he lost his conviction or something - Pain vs Kakashi, Asuma, Kurenai, Guy: Unless Guy pulls out the 8th gate, they're going on a trip straight to the Pure Land - Pain vs Sasuke (P1): 💀 - Pain vs Naruto, Sakura, Kakashi, and Chiyo: Even if Chiyo was in her prime (who's relative to prime Hanzo), Pain should still win in a stomp or at worst for them, low diff - Itachi vs Jiraiya: if the fight took place in the same scenario in the Rain Village, i can see Jiraiya putting up a fight. But IMO Itachi still wins probably medium to high difficulty. If he gets into the Frog Song its game over because we know from the Kabuto fight that MS and EMS cannot nullify audio genjutsu - Pain vs Sasuke (Orochimaru absorbed: 💀 - Itachi vs the entire Leaf Village: Itachi medium difficulty. His biggest drawback is his stamina and he cant use MS for too long. But he's way more powerful than anyone in the village (Guy was on a mission) - Itachi (fatigued) vs sage Naruto: Probably sage Naruto high difficulty. If Itachi wasn't fatigued, I'll say that Itachi wins medium difficulty. The frog summons are non factor because of Amaterasu. And if we assume that Itachi beat Jiraiya, he's not getting caught in the Frog Song. But this Itachi is fatigued, so i think Naruto wins - Pain and Nagato vs Naruto and Bee (weird, i know): Pain and Nagato stomps. Nagato was about to low diffs both Naruto and Bee if it wasnt for Itachi. But he's not here - Pain and Sasuke vs sage Kabuto: Since their objective is to stop Edo Tensei, i think Kabuto wins medium to high difficulty. Keep in mind that Itachi carried that fight and was protecting Sasuke a couple of times. If Pain uses Chaotic Shinra Tensei to destroy the cave, it might work, but Sasuke will get caught in it unless he activates his Susanoo. But i think Kabuto still wins because neither Pain or Sasuke have any answer to stop Edo Tensei because Kabuto is immune to visual genjutsu Anyway its a long comment, I'm sleepy, and im going to watch the video in the morning. Feel free to leave thoughts on this comment
Normal sharingan genjutsu works on summons as well giving itachi a pretty solid win against basically anyone that relies heavily on one. I see him breaking hanzo's mask and murdering him with his own salamander along with the other troops lmfao. Naruto(sage) and sannin also runs into a similar issue
I think you go overboard on the Hanzo de-bunking. That looks like a big puddle on the Sannin battlefield and everything we've seen of Hanzo's moveset just doesn't work underwater. Explosive tags, fog, sickle and chain... The underwater breathing is just another feather to his bow. It's clearly an option, but he's fully confident and geared for battle on-land. The Sannin all have summons that can function underwater, so I'm not sure the databook is doing that much here. He's wet because of the rain, this looks like a dry wasteland. I love the animated art of Itachi/Hanzo/Danzo throughout the video btw! Does Ninja Tribes app give you that clean video of the art?! So cool
Super fair we were just having fun with a different interpretation to just to add some new arguments since a lot of people rinse and repeat the same stuff.
Ok ok, hear me out, kurenai is said to have the best genjutsu of everyone in the hidden leaf, this includes jiraiyah's frog song, meaning she has frog song level genjutsu, asuma just needs to get railed with rods by pain for a few moments and kurenai can one shot genjutsu the paths of pain, so there you go, thats how kurenai beats pain Trust
Danzo purposely stayed out of the Pain attack so he could take power after it was over. If Itachi attacked instead I feel he definitely would have gotten involved since he wouldn’t pass on the opportunity to get Shisui’s other eye in Itachi’s possession and to take another set of Uchiha sharingan.
Yeah someone else commented this, he can minority evade it but then Gamabunta and the other summons along with Ma & Pa can fall under, but that’s a good point I should have included.
@@ThunderGodTG That’s completely valid outside of like Maybe Ma and Pa. Only reason for saying that is Ma could sense the Village was under attack back on Mount Myoboku (Granted we don’t know if this is a Sensory feat or if a Toad was sent). But it really doesn’t matter unless people think SM Naruto’s Rasenshuriken is cracking Itachi’s Susano’o
Hey thunder god, do you think edo hashirama could beat the other edo kage? I only ask because orochimaru is surprised that he didn't break out, in the anime when talking to Sasuke. Hashirama seems to be a whole level above all other kage
Great video. However the last battle should be using Edo nagato. I missed if it was Edo or alive. Because Edo would have regen and unlimited chakra supply (like itachi had) also I feel like Edo itachi > Alive. Simply because it has better feats. So same might apply to nagato (at least in terms of chakra and stamina)
15:31 what kind of itachi WANK is this. We know oro had a small portion of his chakra sealed in sasuke so this wouldn’t even be full chakra oro, we also know he was on his death bed when he died. So this oro isn’t even full chakra and would have a body that’s rejecting him. It’s just a nerfed oro vs nerfed itachi
My attempt for the 48 dollar Venmo: Ight, so Kurenai is implied to be a decently impressive user of Genjutsu. Obviously her Genjutsu is a tier below Itachi, but she does have some level of proficiency their. Now we know all the Pains share vision. There is an interpretation that visual Genjutsu affects all the Pains. If you want to go with this line of thinking, Kurenai could tree bind all the Paths of Pain at once and Stab Tendo in the back of the head killing him instantly, and Asuma can try to axe off the rest of their heads while their binded. The Pains might not have an immediate response to an attack like this and fighting an opponent who can exploit their shared vision like this puts them at a notable disadvantage.
Wait, snakes and frogs are very capable under water. Obviously with their summons they would have won, but i just mean narratively the sannin should win. But then the minato one shot comes in and scales prime hanzo to a perfect jinchuriki han and roshi
I dont think Itachi beats Jiraya. Dark swamp handles Susano which has no mobility and the Yata Mirror can't block like head on attacks but something from below i doubt it. Tsukuyomi is the biggest issue.
Trust me even trying to explain this to jiraiya fans they literally go back to saying" I believe itachi when itachi says that part about jiraiya but not the part when itachi told kakashi that only someone of with the sharingan and kekegenki!!! Or the part when itachi says he lied to everyone around him because he trusted no one... Jiraiya literally has done nothing since the 3 sanin broke up
The fact that it is stated that Almighty Push repels everything is weird because I believe Naruto in the Kyuubi mode during his fight with him was able to force himself through it, unless that was an anime only scene, someone correct me on that if it is, but if its not, then the statement isn't very credible for saying "Everything"
How about a video on “ the akatsuki vs the ninja alliance “ All members of the akatsuki alive. nagato and itachi isn’t sick ( including orochimaru ( 3way deadlock) and obito or tobi which ever you prefer vs ninja alliance kcm1 Naruto and ems sasuke including the five kage
the ENTIRE story would need to be rewritten for Itachi vs the leaf to be good. If Itachi was an actual villain there's no way he magically had some nameless disease that literally nobody else in the shinobi world ever suffered from. He'd just take his dad 's MS and get EMS and grow stronger than madara did while he was alive because Itachi had the highest potential of any shinobi. He just got fucked by writing.
Hey man! I’ve actually come across some of your vids I’ll be honest from what I’ve seen in the community I’m one of the dudes that actually thinks the Sannin are much more impressive I’d def reccomend something like my Sannin vs The Akatsuki vid, but I am pretty adamant Itachi/Pain stand above the Sannin individually. I’ll grab your discord tho for the sake of it just cause maybe you have some arguments or scaling I’m not privy to
@@ThunderGodTG idk why my comment isn't here, I poured my heart and soul into the paragraph But can you send me your discord, plz? I just updated my username and idk if discord is different or I'm just old
Im no expert but it looks like hanzo and ibisu stand in a puddle, you can see it by the salamanders feet. I dont really think he did a kisame to the sanin and dragged em into a lake- but yeah, i have no emotion regarding this thought and may be wrong
Naruto characters can walk on deep pools of water so its shallowness is probably deceptive. But I also think Hanzo is just weaker than a lot of people think he was even in his prime and that any powerful mid tier Kage (like the 4th Raikage) would’ve been able to beat up the young sannin too
It could also be the more shallow part of the body of water like the shore of a beach as we don't see the end at it's a little vague we just thought it was really dope
Tg 😂 mayne when it comes to the sanin vs itachi you're so biased. Firstly jiraya and orochimaru's battle IQ is nowhere near in the same realms as shown in the series(orochimaru blindly and carelessly fights and underestimates his opponents). Human path pain or any other body except tendo is not above sm jiraya, clearly shown. The answer for tsukuyomi is strategy(no eye contact, that is well established in the series something orochimaru has not figured out😂)
We just didn’t read the same manga, also sitting here like I haven’t done multiple other vids saying the Sannin are insane. Disagreeing is not Bias the arguments in the video were entirely valid. Orochimaru literally has far more knowledge than Jiraya on jutsu so that’s just not true. Idk what you’re referencing with blindly or carelessly. The human path clowned Jiraya, reacted and blocked his fastest attack in Sage Mode, Beat him down in physical strength while blinded and in a smoke bomb, it’s clearly shown and stated by jiraya if he stayed there he would have died. Why is it okay to say Jiraya can pull these crazy combos but Itachi can’t eventually force eye content through clone variations or other means during the fight? Again I have no problems disagreeing but jumping on the “bias” train when you didn’t address 99% of what I said and hopping around the comments to say I’m Bias is trash af. Feel free to unsubscribe if it bothers you that much.
@@ThunderGodTG so in the manga panel you showed itachi is the one saying they would not win jiraya not kisame😆. Orochimaru knows more about jutsu from a more scientific point cuz he's always cooking something or someone in his labs. On the point of itachi and combos,jiraya is way stronger in sm and itachi in terms of strength is nowhere close to sm jiraya. Human path did not clown jiraya 😆 he blocked his attack and what shocked jiraya was that he attacked from his blindspot and he saw his attack(jiraya was shocked about the shared vision which was the problem and not physical strength). The pain bodies are way more durable that a living ninja so the physical attacks jiraya used were really powerful because of sm and itachi physically is not on par with sm jiraya . And you are biased🤣 when it comes to comparing sannin vs itachi🤣 and biased doesn't equate to I hate you and your channel😭...🤣 I love the debates😁. And why I say your biased is because when itachi says jiraya would beat kisame and himself-it can't be taken literally but orochimaru says something to itachis credit it should be taken literally(and orochimaru running from itachi on both occasions isn't a real fight same when itachi and kisame ran from jiraya😁)
My favorite part of these videos is how each video TG makes contradicts the previous video lmao. Also yeah, love the argument "we've seen paper beat the shit out of rock, and we've seen the feats of rock and how he blitzed scissor, making paper the obvious best one ever, cause feat wise paper has beat rock, who lost EASILY to paper". Snorefest, honestly just lazy
This is such a nothing comment you ain’t even critique shit you just yapped, I ain’t got a problem with dudes disagreeing but, this is literally just hot air, be better king And my opinions are allowed to change overtime if I stagnated over the course of the channel’s career I would not be doing a good job I’m constantly researching, getting new translations engaging with others, and coming up with new opinions/ coming across new info so you are spouting pure cap again I implore you to drop an actual critique instead of whatever tf you wrote, again be better
How do u guyz come to the conclusion that pain held back against jiraiya he even underestimated him because he had to bring the other 3 paths and to top that of pain also mentioned that if jiraiya knew his secrets he probably lost
Sure Itachi beat Sage Mode Nartuo, and Itachi beats the 6 tails, but does Itachi beat the whole leaf village?!? Pain cleared 3 of these fights back to back to back and was about to seal 8 Tails Nartuo. Itachi would be caughing up blood by the time Naruro even showed up.
He does yeah. He just doesn't do it in the same way. Pain is a brute force fighter. Itachi a high IQ fighter. He does the job with stealth. And I would argue he likely accomplishes the task because of it. Pain came close but ultimately he took his first of 2 Ls there. Itachi never loses because he approaches every situation according to his strengths.
@@rodrigor.2847 takes almost no Chakra to throw a shruiken. 99% of the people in the villa are absolute fodder. He rolled the strongest clan when he was much weaker. And he did it in one night. Give him a week. Pain rolled in like a raid boss at full power. And he lost. Itachi doesn't lose because he relies more on his brains than his immense power. It's really not that complex.
@@Blubackbub wtf are you talking? pain defeated everyone he faced, the only time he lost was when minato interfered. And no itachi its not beating 10000 shinobis, a hokage, kakashi and genious like shikamaru with shurikens. Like this ideia its stupid, he doesnt even have this much shruiken.
@rodrigor.2847 you are about as smart as Pain lol. We literally have him no diffing the strongest clan in the dead of night when he is younger. I already explained he wouldn't make the same entrance Pain did because he isn't stupid. Also shruikens don't disappear after you use them lol. What even. In a stealth mission you literally just pick them back up. And Pain DID lose. Cope up however you want. He lost. It happened.
I just can't see Itachi beating Sage Mode Jiraya. No way. Jiraya is a leaf ninja so he knows about the sharingan. Those black flames are not catching him either
Amaterasu is based purely on the perception of the user unless you argue Jiraya is actually a perception tier above Itachi (he’s not) he’s getting tagged
@@ThunderGodTG cs2 hebi sasuke has lower perception than itachi and he was able to dodge amaterasu for quiet a while. Don't get me wrong i still think itachi takes this, just a comment on your argument.
ITACHI dies in all fights Pain has. Hanzo waxes, Pervy Sage waxes, the leaf wins with no difficulty. Itachi lost to Habi Sasuke. That's enough to tell me that alive Itachi without infinite Charka loses to 99% of the show.
Overhyping Itachi , itachi is strong very strong but not sage mode Naruto or even jiraya ,and it’s hard to put sage mode under genjutsu because the can fight with eyes closed .
Honestly Itachi knew about the Hydra from experience meaning Akatsuki Oro already had his higher form and he was still like “Yeah im not posting that shit I got my ass kicked by a 13 year old” so it’s crazy but I think kid Itachi beats Hanzo. Also I just think Kabuto is too fast for Nagato, white rage is just his worst nightmare.
Most of these fights are one extreme or another of unbalanced fight. They're either "paper vs. scissors" where the characters are comparable in power but one has specific abilities that hard-counter the other, or they're "Ultra Instinct Goku vs. that dude with a shotgun from the opening of DBZ" power gaps.
You mentioned in the Nagato vs Kabuto fight that Nagato would have intel on sage mode users. It made me think what would happen if Nagato or Pain actually beat Naruto. How would the war arc play out? That might be a good topic for another video. Hope you’re having a great New year. 🎉
@@AidenB1010 ya nah,taka sasuke who beat sick itachi, with suigetsu jugo and karin barely "survived" 8 tails, bro got reversed jumped by killer bee and sasuke was considerably stronger than he fought itachi
@@carlotage23 - allowed or not, itachi still gave his full arsenal, he went full force so orochimaru could spawn and get rid of him. - That Sasuke's victory was also allowed by bee, remember how effective amaterasu againts naruto? After took a hit once and used the tentacle sub like he did againts sasuke, bee would use chakra cloack to protect himself and brush it aside like it's nothing. Remember, despite his attitude his battle IQ is quite high.
If the pain gets stronger when they are closer to nagato wouldn’t that mean jiraiya faught a full power version since nagato would be in that village at the time and not somewhere on the outskirts of it hiding in a tree?
Pain held back because of his attachment to Jiraiya, the location of the fight (his village), his secret and the fact that he underestimated Jiraiya (because he felt above him power scaling wise)
I actually hear this argument a lot and while I could see a case we don’t even know where in the rain village pain is so to just say he’s be a tier greater if any at all is always weird to me. Like the most it would impact is the speed at which Nagato can send chakra to the paths as there’d be a shorter distance as opposed to a stat buff.
@@ThunderGodTG Yeah I'm not sure how much of a tier increase it would be exactly, but I do think it's interesting to consider Nagato had to move fairly close to the leaf village in order to conduct his attack so I can't imagine it would be too far away
I do wonder how Pain/Nagato would have sorted out Itachi if he was the one who broke out of Edo Tensei. Pretty sure the human path can seal Itachi, assuming all-mighty pull can pull Itachi out of a Susano'o. Would love to hear TG's opinion.
@@DarthMagog But we don't know if Bansho Ten'in could pull Itachi out of his Susano'o or if it would move along with him. Even if he was pulled out, there's things he can do, like send an explosive clone ahead or just reactivate the Susano'o, even if just an arm to attack Tendou. Kakashi doesn't have a Susano'o and he survived the jutsu. Plus, I bet Tendou can't use both Bansho Ten'in and Shinra Tensei at the same time.
They each demolish each others fights up until the last where they lose each others respective battles lol. Itachi doesn’t have the stamina or destructive power to obliterate all of Konoha in basically one attack, though he could beat Sage Naruto rather easily imo. Pain and Sasuke get beat by Kabuto very badly. Not only can they not undo Edo Tensei without Izanami. But sound genjustu inside the cave is a one shot, Nagato can’t break Sasuke out and Sasuke likely can’t break Nagato out because Rinnegan users are immune to ocular justu.
Cant Naruto fight Itachi with his eyes closed? Sage Mode doesnt need his eyes open to fight here? I do believe he still loses but it would be more interesting like that.
He can to a degree but, he ain't gonna be running around eyes closed fighting someone of Pain's Caliber tbh and even then Itachi could potentially genjutsu the Sage Toads or the Big 3 Toads to fight for him as well, so it's legit just which target he wants
Can you give a reason why he can't fight with someone on pain's calibre eyes closed? Kabuto did it against EMS Sasuke and Itachi the whole fight + we know that Naruto in sage mode can sense the whole 4th shinobi war from turtle island a country away (which he obviously can't see) so this should be no issue at all. @@ThunderGodTG
@@austinwinston1231I mean. Imagine if he fought Pain with his eyes closed? We would have probably gotten wrecked much faster than he did in actuality. It would be similar with Itachi. A physically nerfed Itachi easily swapped hands with a much stronger version of Naruto with just his base sharingan.
Awesome video. These are my favorite kinds of videos from you. I can forgive the inaccuracies and circle talk because I didn't even realize this video is an hour long, it flew by. I'm going to check out the Virhtue video about Itachi vs Pain now.
For the Itachi vs 6tails Naruto fight: Itachi was shown to be weaker in raw stats vs that Hebi sasuke, he was on his deathbed. He only survived cause of hacks and the moment he pulled his last bit of power, susanoo, he dies. Pain is an Uzumaki and this had a lot of longevity. Shinra tensei not working didn't deter pain....... but the moment amaterasu doesn't work wither by dodging or raw chakra wind lol, Itachi is done! 6 tails naruto may not destroy his susano but Itachi can't last at THAT LEVEL of conflict for more than a minute when he's THAT sick.
Jiriaya stans cling to one pre retcon statement from itachi saying he and Kisame wouldn’t beat Jiriaya even with reinforcements. Which was just an excuse to get Kisame to leave. But then we see that with reinforcements Jiriaya dies to 3 paths of pain lol. All of which are weaker individually and likely collectively than Itachi or Kisame. They’re so funny
That statement is so garbage to use for or against as you’d ignore context and the rest of the series. Even if you wanted to say Jiraya > that’s not the way to do it.
@@ThunderGodTG pain's paths get more powerful if they are near Nagato and The one Naruto defeated is fatigued and need full intel so without knowing pian's full power you can't scale Jiraiya...
Great upload as usual TG, don't mind me coming in with my usual nitpick. If you give me a chance to stand up for Kakashi, I'm gonna stand up for Kakashi 35:12 In Part one, Kakashi said he can only do 3 Raikiris in one day. Then in Shippuden he could only use Kamui twice a day. Kakashi does both of these things in the Pain Arc, and also does a lightning style clone. I don't think Kakashi's reserves are as light as you suggest tbh, it seems more like he's spamming jutsu with high chakra costs. You're comparing Itachi's stamina reserves to Kakashi, when Itachi was trying to kill himself from exhaustion. I'd be more impressed with Itachi's stamina in the Sasuke fight if he didn't die from doing all that. But Itachi used fewer ninjutsu than Kakashi did. Also he only used MS 3 times, once more than Kakashi when he died. You also have to consider that Sharingan techniques are vastly more draining for non-Uchiha
I'm only thinking about the anime versions of the fights, so that could be a discrepancy It's not like this changes the outcome, Kakashi still loses to Itachi sadly
How does Kabuto put down Nagato …..the amount of win cons Nagato has is crazy, Soul removal,chibaku tensei,chakra rods,Gedo statue soul dragon,chaotic shinra tensei in this enclosed cave is a GG,the summons especially the replicating dogs . Nagato being an edo just helps him out even more he doesn’t even need Saskue’s help.Knowing the Rinnegan abilities also doesn’t matter ,he also knew itachi’s abilities and the Rinnegan’s are way more broken. Off topic ,why was Madara able to use Hashirama’s sage chakra instantly n didn’t turn into a slug or whatever his sage mode is.
Just a reminder of Pain vs Kurenai and Asuma. Pain wrecked the whole leaf village including Kurenai. So unless Asuma was that big a difference, pains got this
Kurenai was in the safe house under the great stone faces, due to her being pregnant
@@KeizerSosebeehonestly they should've still utilized her, the queen of genjutsu would've dog walked pain no dif
Did anybody question this?
I mean you have to remember their mission so i don’t think he’d bring all of them plus genjutsu does work on pain
As a whole with shinra tensei Asuma doesn't make much of a difference. However he's well skilled enough that with a proper strategy he could be utilized very well. Especially in a team with Kakashi, Choji, and Choza.
Imagine how sad it would be for Itachi if he attacked the Leaf.
We did not keep with that somewhat here but he ain’t cleaning the leaf for shit, pains stamina reserves make Itachi look like a Genin. Not saying Itachi has low reserves but, Pain’s are just that massive.
I mean I think Itachi can get rid of a lot of people silently since he doesn’t alarm anyone when going through the barrier
Agreed he’d never be as loud as pain
He would do fine. He just wouldn't do it like Pain. Pain is careless because he has the luxury of 6 lives and tons of Chakra. Itachi literally ALWAYS uses the least amount of moves and Chakra necessary to win his fight (which he also always does. Zero -Ls. Pain has 1 and Nagato has 1). Funny you mention it too because Pains L was literally because he invaded Konoha.
Got a reason why he didn't he simply couldn't
Are we forgetting that Nagato was able to sense Kabuto while Kabuto used a jutsu to hide himself from beimg sensed even though he was in edo, others couldn't sense him?!!
His and kabutos chakra are connected just like all the other edos, didn't Itachi say that he could sense him too?
oh snapp@@PuffPuffPass123
@@PuffPuffPass123nobody could tell kabutos location except nagato
@@johnchris2122 when itachi and Sasuke discovered what kabutos chakra felt like both could sense him even when hiding in the cave
@@PuffPuffPass123 I don't think itachi and Sasuke had any sensory ability so to say, I think what you be. Referring to was when itachi used his susano to protect Sasuke, to which itachi said he bet on the odds that Kabuto was more likely to attack Sasuke
The only thing I had an issue with was when you got to the Naruto vs Pain scenario. Because if these battles are swappe, Ma and Pa would have intel on on Itachi’s genjutsu and would just let Naruto know to not look him in the eye. And you state “in character” when Naruto isn’t exactly a dunce. He has been on the receiving end of genjutsus before. He has seen what Itachi did to Sasuke so I’m pretty sure he will know not to look him in the eye. Imo Sage Naruto vs Itachi will be an extremely close fight. Naruto can simply close his eyes and just sense Itachi which would probably bypass itachi’s clones… snd you have to remember Naruto flung that rasen shuriken from a quite a distance so the closer he is the harder it is for Itachi to avoid it. One hit from this will kill Itachi and I probably think one or two punches from a sage mode amped Naruto will kill him too. I dont see Itachi withstanding punches from someone flinging a giant rhino that prob weight a shit load of TONS all the way up into the air.
Amateurasu is probably not a good idea since pushing Naruto to that near death state might end up triggering Kurama to play a role into this. And I do not see Itachi surviving an onslaught with a 6 tailed version kyubi cloak that pain had to deal with. (Or was it 4 I cant remember) and Itachi doesn’t have no chibaku tensei to help him.
You also claim the Yadamir “rips apart”… May I ask how? It’s a shield with no offensive capabilities so what exactly is Itachi going to do with his slow clunky susano. Bonk Naruto on the head with the shield? The totska blade on the other hand IS offensive but again you dont know how fast itachi can swing it so its not true to thing he’s gonna ever going to land that thing on a sage mode Naruto. Even if he’s going up against a beserk kyubi cloak Naruto it then doesn’t actually matter because kyubi cloaked Naruto that fought pain is blitzing itachi. There is no one on this planet that can sit here and tell me itachi is fast as this thing. Absolutely no.. no chance… and just remember pain did NOT win against thing thing. He was completely defensive and was forced to use chibaku tensei. He could not handle the onslaught that was dished out and that chibaku tensei just made it worse…
I dont think Itachi can sit inside his susano for long periods of time. And im pretty sure that Yadamir isn’t omi directional so if he’s taking back shots then i really dont know. Susano wont be a 100% total win for Itachi and if that thing Naruto just outlast him he loses. Susano is said to take a shit ton of chakra to manifest AND maintain so good luck trying to outlast Naruto’s chakra reserve.
Literally the most spot on comment on this whole post! No way can Itachi sustain first Sage Mode Naruto and then (if it even comes to that) the 6-Tails Cloak Naruto…
It’s not a ‘diss’ to Itachi, but that fight is above his (and most of other ninja) tier
@@nbogavac Your comment is so illogical it's easy to debunk. Itachi one shot Orochimaru, Itachi boxed with KCM 1 Naruto, Itachi one shot Kakashi, Itachi beat Snake Sage Kabuto. Itachi is one tapping Sage mode Naruto that couldn't defeat a weakened Pain even with a lot of help. Itachi is also packing up the 6 tails Naruto form, Itachi has better speed, better haxs, bigger arsenal of jutsus, smarter and more crafty, not nearly as exhausted as Pain was. Itachi shoots the amaterasu at 6 tails Naruto then instantly puts him under Tsukuyomi or if that doesn't work instantly gets rid of him with the blade of sealing. Naruto isn't touching Itachi in his Susanoo anyways, the yata mirror prevents that.
@@theflamingeagle572 the anime makes it look like six tails Naruto and pain were moving at much higher speeds than when kcm Naruto and itachi exchanged blows even though the implication is that kcm is faster. We know that kurama’s chakra negates Amaterasu. I agree with Naruto not having great ways around the susanno/ yata. I don’t like that the yata mirror doesn’t have any real feats but that’s a different conversation entirely. And he only “one shots” oro because of genjutsu which Naruto isn’t immune to. In fact you could argue he’s quite susceptible to it as he doesn’t know how to deal with the tsukuyomi until kcm or at least that was the first time he ran into itachi while having that knowledge.
@@justinmathis8078 They obviously slow it down, if they kept speeding it up relative to how fast they are actually moving then you won't see anything.
@@theflamingeagle572 yeah I can see that but at the same time just go back and see both scenes and how they make pains legs look while he’s running away from and towards six tales Naruto. Compare that to what looks like a casual clash of fists between kcm Naruto and itachi. While what you said makes sense I think it makes just as much sense that even if kcm Naruto capable of moving faster than he did in six tails state, doesn’t mean he was moving faster than that in the exchange with itachi based on how the anime makes it look anyways. Because we know the anime has its way of implying high speed in a fight.
Wait I just realized, if orochimaru won against itachi and stole his body he would immediately regret it as he would be blind coughing up blood and constantly run out of stamina even when fighting fodder
Orochi had hashi cells, so maybe it wouldn't be that bad.
@@aliveghost368 did orochimaru have hashirama cells before his white zetsu body? I thought he only gave them to danzo, Shin,Yamato and the 59 dead fetus’ in his lab
@KeizerSosebee I wonder that too, but why wouldn't he?, given that he has successfully implanted Hashirama's cells to Danzou, and Danzou knows that they make him stronger.
@@didack1419 you gotta be compatible with them. There is a chance he wasn’t, kinda like he wasn’t compatible with Snake sage mode
@@KeizerSosebee Orochimaru was the true underdog all along
I think it was only the body that he was using at that moment that was incompatible with sage mode.
I have a question. How strong would Ishidate from Naruto movie 3 be if he was in the main story? In the movie, he's comparable to base Kakashi and can turn anything he touches into stone. He can also control stone and levitate with stones. But he got overwhelmed when Naruto's multi shadow clone jutsu literally trampled him and knocked him out. So i will say that he's weaker than sick Kimimaro, and IMO is a solid Jonin level because he keep up with Kakashi. What do you guys think?
They should do more movie fight scaling on the channel. Along with filler characters. That would be interesting.
One thing i like as an itachi fan. Before the versus battle starts we know itachi wins. We just like hearing how bad
bro spitting we always up
I don’t know if you can really take anything from that Kakashi vs Itachi clone thing tbh. I think based off of how Itachi treats Kakashi in part 1 by automatically going to his most powerful technique always came off like he was trying to avoid a drawn out fight between the 2 of them. That point is further driven home once we realize why Itachi was really there. It wasn’t about naruto it was about making sure Sasuke was ok getting in and out the village without causing too much drama or blowing his cover. So he had to rid of Kakashi while making it look like he intended to kill him but without actually fighting him.
Exactly itachi knows his best bet against kakashi is to use one of his top 3 techniques, these itachi fans acts as if base itachi stomps kakashi. Clearly they are itachi fan boys based in this video
One thing I sort of disagree with is your statements of Itachi's stamina based off of his fight with Sasuke. I'm not saying Itachi has no stamina but rather you might be over estimating it. My reasoning is that the Itachi who preformed those feats was fighting with the intent to die and was likely heavily amped from from his resolve. But despite that he still has way more stamina than what most people claim and it's hard to tell how much those things actually affected him.
Think about it like this he literally out stamina’d Hebi Sasuke who’s stamina reserves are monsterous and can hold back on other akatsuki members. Assume tho that in each scenario Itachi can just push himself to that point
@@ThunderGodTG I can't deny he's obviously capable of it but rather that he would do it in almost any other situation. Sort like how a mother could lift a car to save their child but in any other situation she wouldn't or couldn't. That being said it's absurdly difficult to tell how much a difference it would make and even more so I don't think this would have made Itachi lose a battle you said he'd probably win in the video. It's more of a passing thought that I put out to see other's opinions
@@ThunderGodTGnot to be contestant but what makes Hebi sasukes stamina monstrous w/o curse mark ?
I will say if you're going to try Star Rail do it off this video, Dr. Ratio is awesome lorewise and Ruan Mei is broken and super fun. Her banner is not going much longer but you could probably guarantee her if you speedrun because of the large number of new player pulls.
The game is genuinely fun but game responsibly if you know you have trouble with gambling/gacha elements
LET THEM KNOW HIT MOBILE GAME OF THE SEASON
People forget that sage mode Naruto is a tier above Jiraiya's sage mode. The one Path of Pain was clobbering Jiraiya while Naruto one shotted the same Path with a single punch. This was the Path that was going after Tsunade and Naruto stepped in and took out.
The thumbnail teaser got me a little excited for this one. Based on the thumbnail alone, I was going to say Pain clears everything up to Sage Kabuto and Itachi only clears Kakashi. I was saving the full wall of text effort for a hypothetical Sasuke video that may or may not be coming eventually, but I'll do it for this one because it's such a fun topic. Just going to lay this out at the start, Itachi has a way tougher set of fights to deal with because Pain's caliber of opponent is consistently higher due to him generally being stronger and requiring stronger narrative forces to fight him with one exception.
Hanzo vs Itachi: Pretty cut and dry, Itachi has no chance. You don't even need to go very deep on this one because Hanzo's lore implications are so crazy due to being able to wage war against Prime Hiruzen at all. Hanzo also stared down Gedo Mazo and the Soul Sealing Dragon without blinking, which is rather telling. This can succinctly be be done by direct comparison as well in that Itachi ran away from Jiraiya who barely survived a fight against Hanzo.
Asuma and Kurenai vs Pain: At least Asuma dies before having his kid in this time line. But really, there was a little bit of downplay. Genjutsu was shown to be effective against the Paths of Pain in the form of Ibiki during Pain's Invasion, and Kurenai has statements regarding her as the Leaf's most adept Genjutsu user which would place her above Ibiki on that statement. Losing a Genjutsu battle against Itachi isn't exactly an anti-feat because that would happen to almost everyone in the series. Asuma was able to out do Hidan in a full brawl and has some good techniques, as well as had the respect of Kakashi and Guy. It's reasonable to say that between Asuma and Kurenai together could beat at least one Path.
Sage Jiraiya vs Itachi: Pretty cut and dry, Itachi has no chance. This is probably the spiciest take that I have, but I still think base Jiraiya stomps Itachi. Itachi doesn't have defense against Swamp of the Underworld. There are arguments to be made about Gamabunta being too skilled of a boss summon for Itachi as well just on the grounds that he fought Kurama and Shukaku and won, but I don't think they matter so much here. The argument that Sage Mode takes too much time for Jiraiya to summon is nonsensical because he was able to do it against Pain, who was pretty much the strongest person on the planet at that point in time. If Jiraiya can get into Sage Mode against Pain, few people could ever stop him from doing it. Totsuka Blade has only hit targets that were not moving. The only realistic win condition for Itachi is Tsukuyomi, which seems unlikely given how knowledgeable Jiraiya is about genjutsu and not falling for combat tricks in general. If Jiraiya gets Sage Mode, genjutsu does not work on him due to his chakra constantly being disrupted by Ma and Pa. None of this analysis really matters though because we do in fact have an explicit non-ambiguous statement about this match up that people choose to ignore for whichever reason they choose.
Guy vs Pain: This one wasn't in the thumbnail so I was happy to see it in the video. I like this one a lot because it goes in to Part 1 Guy scaling, which is interesting to me. One of the first statements we have about Guy is word for word "Truth is, I'm stronger than Kakashi." and it is completely accurate when he says it. Kakashi is still out of practice at that point in time, which Kakashi admits to himself after Kabuto outplays him. Guy's nickname of Blue Beast implies that he has Hirudora at this point, and that people have seen him use it. This implies that Old Hiruzen, Tsunade and Jiraiya are all above that Guy even with Hirudora considered as they were Hokage candidates and Guy was not. Hirudora was necessary for Guy's defeat of Kisame, and we know that Kisame is below Pain and Jiraiya. The conclusion that you come to in the video of "Even Hirudora probably can't beat Pain." is 100% correct. Small edit here: I wanted to add on that when Guy shows up to fight Kisame and Itachi in Part 1, Itachi says bluntly "Do not underestimate him." and we know from some later Part 2 info that Itachi has seen Guy use up to five gates and was awestruck. Figured Guy could use a little bit of respect after I put him down a bit.
Sage Naruto vs Itachi: This is the match up I was most excited for and I was hoping it made up the bulk of the video and I think this is the most fair match even if I lean towards Naruto. Sage Naruto gets unrivaled levels of downplay in general. The discussion on this fell short for me. Precog doesn't get mentioned at all. Sharingan reading movement would not work on Frog Kata, which one shot Pain bodies. Naruto knows not to get hit by Tsukuyomi at this point, so it doesn't matter if it's GG if it hits. Sage Naruto throws hands with Third Raikage and wins. During Edo Itachi's encounter with KCM Naruto during the War Arc, panel by panel, Naruto blocks and dodges every single attack from Itachi and does not attempt a single attack on Itachi because he is just trying to talk to him. KCM Naruto is clearly above Itachi in raw stats at that point, even if Itachi has him dwarfed in IQ. Sage Naruto is on the same level as KCM Naruto for a multitude of reasons. I feel like this match up honestly deserves its own video after thinking on it more.
Hebi Sasuke vs Pain: Pretty cut and dry, Sasuke has no chance. Direct comparison in that Deidara would fight against Itachi but not Pain, and Sasuke barely scraped the win against Deidara despite the excellent match up.
Kakashi vs Itachi: This one is eating at me a bit. My gut says Kakashi gets destroyed, but Kakashi managed a few tricks against Pain, Headhunter also hits from underneath, and Kamui landing is GG. Pain is a much harder match, so I think Kakashi might be able to take this one a few times. I would need to think on it and parse more. Just a note: Kakashi and Itachi have a great deal of narrative comparisons regarding prodigiousness. Kakashi was inventing a jutsu at the age of ten, and Itachi wasn't doing that. Kakashi states several times that Itachi will become a better ninja than him during his depression. It's reasonable to conclude that Kakashi might have innate talent superior to Itachi even if I don't necessarily subscribe to that. The only return we get on Kakashi's thoughts towards Itachi is that Kakashi would willingly fight him, but we saw how that played out multiple times.
Orochimaru vs Pain: We saw this one. It didn't go well for Orochimaru. Orochimaru lost to Itachi, tried again, then made a life long plan to defeat him. Orochimaru lost to Pain and said "Yeah nevermind." I'm not sure if Konan's statement on the other Akatsuki members being insignificant applies to Orochimaru because it's unclear if he was there when she said it, but it establishes the ladder pretty clearly because Orochimaru compares rather unfavorably to Akatsuki members that were there.
Six Tails Naruto vs Itachi: I would need to reread or rewatch the Six Tails Naruto stuff for this. Six Tails Naruto was destroying the landscape by existing and Pain had to sit up in his chair to take him him on. I'm not sure if Six Tails Naruto can punch through Susanoo, but that just places the time crunch on Itachi to defeat Naruto before Susanoo kills him. I doubt Six Tails Naruto has the awareness to avoid Tsukuyomi that regular Naruto would. We saw Sasuke's genjutsu, even if very briefly, put down cloaked Killer Bee so it doesn't seem like a stretch to say Itachi's could work on Six Tails Naruto. I'm wondering on if Six Tails Naruto would just shrug it off though considering there isn't really much mental there to break in the first place. My gut says Six Tails, but there might be a case for Tsukuyomi GG here.
Sage Kabuto vs Red Hair Nagato: White Extreme Attack is not genjutsu, this part of the video is incorrect. It is ninjutsu and senjutsu. White Extreme Attack literally cripples you with physical sound waves by rattling the bones in your body. The reason it didn't work on Itachi is because he was an infinitely regenerating zombie that can not be defeated by physical attacks. Nagato might be able to absorb White Extreme Attack, but it's so fast that I legitimately don't know if it Nagato can react to it and know to seal it at all if Sasuke and Itachi couldn't even react to it. The genjutsu utilized by Kabuto is Tayuya's Phantom Sound Chains, which is the sound based genjutsu that comes from her Demonic Flute. Phantom Sound Chains isn't on the level of Frog Song, but it's probably enough to lock up Nagato if he gets caught by it. Sage Kabuto is just different and I don't think many characters can actually beat him in that cave, but Nagato might be one of them. If you're going to be generous and say that this Nagato is Edo Nagato, or just say that White Extreme Attack doesn't instantly win the fight because Nagato absorbs it or has durability to tank it, then I think Nagato destroying the cave is a win con for him or even soul rip to ignore Kabuto's durability. Kabuto having perfect intel is a problem, but I don't think it matters if the cave gets destroyed. Kabuto doesn't have the level of attack to put down multiple summons without Muki Tensei. This is the other fair match, but it comes down more to circumstance.
As usual, another day of TG putting out the best video topics in the scene and giving some good insights and taking some nuanced views on things. Still waiting on that dedicated Sasuke video!
Stopped reading when Yu said itachi ran from jryia .
Itachi losing to Jiraya is a hot take. Jiraya>Oroo>>>>>>>Itachi. Blind dead Itachi no diffs top form Oro. This is some grade A copium lol
Bro your way downplaying itachi…
Hanzo vs Itachi - itachi absolutely stomped a much stronger orochimaru with a base sharingan itachi is capable of beating all 3 sannin (he is literally able to 1 shot any of them) and is faster than fucking EMS sasuke & kcm naruto as a edo tensei which nerfed all his physical stats, bro is straight blitzing Hanzo who is weaker than fucking mifune 🤦🏻
Jiraiya vs itachi - bro first off Itachi was lying when he said he would lose to jiraiya, later feats absolutely body jiraiya Itachi is faster, more haxed, genjutsu stomps jiraiya etc… Jiraiya is literally not winning this 😅
Itachi was more impressive than kcm naruto Itachi fights kcm naruto and blocks everything naruto throws at him as well as dodges bee at the same time, he also out reacted both naruto & bee who got blitzed by nagato which Itachi also blitzed so Itachi on panel blitzed a guy that blitzed kcm naruto & killer bee at the same time… afterwards Itachi goes onto outperforming EMS sasuke to the point that sasuke looked absolutely useless… the same sasuke that’s equal to tobirama and KCM 2 naruto this is just to show how badly your downplaying 🤦🏻
After I watch TG's videos, I always scroll looking for your comment. The section you wrote about Guy is really good. Same with the Sage Naruto part. The corner cutting you take with Hanzo and Sasuke seems lazy and I usually don't like scaling in the form of "this person beats this person so this person beats this person", so I'm glad you provided the extra context for the Hanzo part at least.
Hiruzen was not a field fighter during the time the Sannin were fighting, there is nothing in the entire manga to suggest that. At all. And while ABC scaling isn’t perfect, somebody that was being rivaled by Chiyo is not touching someone who surpassed Tobirama in raw talent (prime Hiruzen). All we really have on Hanzo is that he beat up 3 much weaker Sannin (Jiraiya directly confirms he’s gotten stronger even in base due to the effects of Sage training have on the body) while he had an environmental advantage (The flashback has him standing in a lake).
Itachi has the sharingan and has already easily dealt with someone that employs poisons, so the poison cloud is not taking him off guard. Ocular genjutsu is an extremely exotic power to the point that said Chiyo who fought Hanzo many times stated herself that she would rather run away from the sharingan if the fight was one on one.
In Naruto vs Itachi comparison, it's not just toads and Naruto Itachi would have to fight, but also the rest of the village as well. Against all those odds Itachi loses.
Pain fought the village and Naruto, not just Naruto.
So we didn’t keep that just cause obviously Itachi can’t fight the village himself so we micro’d it down.
@@ThunderGodTG If you put him up against Naruto fresh in that fight he obviously wins, however the whole point of video is switching Pains and Itachi's position. So in order to retain some narrative balance you have to pretend he defeated village but make him fatigued and have a component of his kit exhausted. Also keep in mind Hinata would also jump in fight just at some point in fight narratively speaking that is what happens.
Now the key deciding factor is what is decided as the exhausted part of his kit that he can't use. It would either have to be Amaterasu or Susaano since those are his only methods of dealing most damage to village.
Then you can setup a narrative balance not just put him fresh and ready to go, since pain wasn't fresh and ready to go when Naruto arrived.
Keep in mind during the Hanzo fight we should assume the Sannin (for which he named) were most likely not in their prime.
And they were hunched over and panting while Hanzo didn’t even appear out of breath in the slightest.
When Pain/Nagato killed Hanzo he was in a much weaker state.
Also on Genjutsu: perfect Jins are pretty much immune to most jutsu or rather their bijuu will break them out barring Tsukuyomi. And for me on Itachi VS Jiraiya; it depends. If Jiraiya is in Sage Mode at the start f the fight o give it to him very high diff. However if not, Itachi is going to low diff him.
Itachi VS Sage Mode Naruto; don’t forget during the Pain fight Naruto had clones on wait gathering nature chakra. Depending on when and if Itachi knows about those clones, I get the feeling dispelling one of those clones for a surge of Nature Chakra would most likely break. Ari to out of genjutsu. Then he would have to deal with a raging Kurama. Fortunately for Itachi, he is born to deal with Kurama more so than Pain. Still think Itachi takes this one but it won’t be as one sided as ppl think.
Starting the New Year off with a banger Naruto vid 🎉
Itachi was able to paralyze the majority of Sugaru's insects before he killed him with Amaterasu so he might actually be able to multi-target the AnBu.
Against Kakashi and Chōza Itachi would also have to face the entire rest of the village.
Version 2 can freely split/morph its chakra, even forming an almost second Naruto when Orochimaru punched it, so it might just glob off any Amaterasu that gets to it continuously, and it has more chakra to shed than Itachi has Amaterasu to cast.
Nagato can read the build-up of chakra before a jutsu is used (he was able to tell Itachi was able to cast Amaterasu) so he might elect to absorb the White Rage Attack before it "explodes".
I would argue with Version 2 it’s not a 1:1 cause Naruto had perfect manipulation of the Kyuubi chakra vs the tailed beast just taking over.
As far as Nagato sensing I agree but that doesn’t mean he has the physical ability to react like when he just gets tagged with Amaterasu despite seeing the builsup
Even the mindless Jūbi could detach parts of its flesh to save itself from Amaterasu and Version 2 does have the ability to almost split itself. Seems reasonable enough.
If he can react to it he can pull/push the path out of the way or absorb it, as jutsu typically are just as fast as their reaction ability instead of physical ability (see Danzō's Wood Release).
Yeah the Juubi is just its own entity with its own properties, even a perfect Jinchuriki like bee couldn’t pull this maneuver off, 1-9 are much closer in what we can assert than the ten tails which is just different.
For Nagato it’s more so determined on where you have him but that’s up to your opinion on the stat difference.
B never really tried.He had to make it look convincing to "escape" from Kumo.
The 8 Tails does concede that the plan was last second and that all his tails did get burned. If you actually look at the panel Bee blocks the Amaterasu but it burns him nonetheless.
One thing I wish we could get is to actually see some of these fights that would help us scale certain characters like Hanzo, Tobirama, Some of Minato war feats, Etc…
Its literally 11:20 PM in my place so I'll watch this in the morning. But heres my takes
- Itachi vs Hanzo: Itachi low diffs. I think its stated somehwere that Hanzo had gone a lot weaker when he was killed because he lost his conviction or something
- Pain vs Kakashi, Asuma, Kurenai, Guy: Unless Guy pulls out the 8th gate, they're going on a trip straight to the Pure Land
- Pain vs Sasuke (P1): 💀
- Pain vs Naruto, Sakura, Kakashi, and Chiyo: Even if Chiyo was in her prime (who's relative to prime Hanzo), Pain should still win in a stomp or at worst for them, low diff
- Itachi vs Jiraiya: if the fight took place in the same scenario in the Rain Village, i can see Jiraiya putting up a fight. But IMO Itachi still wins probably medium to high difficulty. If he gets into the Frog Song its game over because we know from the Kabuto fight that MS and EMS cannot nullify audio genjutsu
- Pain vs Sasuke (Orochimaru absorbed: 💀
- Itachi vs the entire Leaf Village: Itachi medium difficulty. His biggest drawback is his stamina and he cant use MS for too long. But he's way more powerful than anyone in the village (Guy was on a mission)
- Itachi (fatigued) vs sage Naruto: Probably sage Naruto high difficulty. If Itachi wasn't fatigued, I'll say that Itachi wins medium difficulty. The frog summons are non factor because of Amaterasu. And if we assume that Itachi beat Jiraiya, he's not getting caught in the Frog Song. But this Itachi is fatigued, so i think Naruto wins
- Pain and Nagato vs Naruto and Bee (weird, i know): Pain and Nagato stomps. Nagato was about to low diffs both Naruto and Bee if it wasnt for Itachi. But he's not here
- Pain and Sasuke vs sage Kabuto: Since their objective is to stop Edo Tensei, i think Kabuto wins medium to high difficulty. Keep in mind that Itachi carried that fight and was protecting Sasuke a couple of times. If Pain uses Chaotic Shinra Tensei to destroy the cave, it might work, but Sasuke will get caught in it unless he activates his Susanoo. But i think Kabuto still wins because neither Pain or Sasuke have any answer to stop Edo Tensei because Kabuto is immune to visual genjutsu
Anyway its a long comment, I'm sleepy, and im going to watch the video in the morning. Feel free to leave thoughts on this comment
You Him all W takes dr
Peak video with my 2 favorite naruto creators 🔥
Wwwwwwww
Normal sharingan genjutsu works on summons as well giving itachi a pretty solid win against basically anyone that relies heavily on one. I see him breaking hanzo's mask and murdering him with his own salamander along with the other troops lmfao. Naruto(sage) and sannin also runs into a similar issue
Kurine genjutsu’s the path that does interrogations, and then Asuma goes in for the kill.
GIVE ME THAT $48!
ohhh! a nice and long video!! thanks for making my day :D
Hebi Sasuke is a bit misunderstood when it comes to how much his power increases from beginning of shippuden
I’m liking in advance because ThunderGod don’t miss!!🔥
I think you go overboard on the Hanzo de-bunking. That looks like a big puddle on the Sannin battlefield and everything we've seen of Hanzo's moveset just doesn't work underwater. Explosive tags, fog, sickle and chain... The underwater breathing is just another feather to his bow.
It's clearly an option, but he's fully confident and geared for battle on-land. The Sannin all have summons that can function underwater, so I'm not sure the databook is doing that much here. He's wet because of the rain, this looks like a dry wasteland.
I love the animated art of Itachi/Hanzo/Danzo throughout the video btw! Does Ninja Tribes app give you that clean video of the art?! So cool
Super fair we were just having fun with a different interpretation to just to add some new arguments since a lot of people rinse and repeat the same stuff.
Ok ok, hear me out, kurenai is said to have the best genjutsu of everyone in the hidden leaf, this includes jiraiyah's frog song, meaning she has frog song level genjutsu, asuma just needs to get railed with rods by pain for a few moments and kurenai can one shot genjutsu the paths of pain, so there you go, thats how kurenai beats pain
Trust
Itachi doesn’t have the stamina to last pass 2 fights. Nagato can control bodies if yu get to close. Kabuto don’t stand a chance
Danzo purposely stayed out of the Pain attack so he could take power after it was over. If Itachi attacked instead I feel he definitely would have gotten involved since he wouldn’t pass on the opportunity to get Shisui’s other eye in Itachi’s possession and to take another set of Uchiha sharingan.
My only contention is That Genjutsu GG doesn’t work against SM Naruto is because he can keep his eyes closed and fight off of sensory
Yeah someone else commented this, he can minority evade it but then Gamabunta and the other summons along with Ma & Pa can fall under, but that’s a good point I should have included.
@@ThunderGodTG That’s completely valid outside of like Maybe Ma and Pa. Only reason for saying that is Ma could sense the Village was under attack back on Mount Myoboku (Granted we don’t know if this is a Sensory feat or if a Toad was sent). But it really doesn’t matter unless people think SM Naruto’s Rasenshuriken is cracking Itachi’s Susano’o
Hey thunder god, do you think edo hashirama could beat the other edo kage? I only ask because orochimaru is surprised that he didn't break out, in the anime when talking to Sasuke. Hashirama seems to be a whole level above all other kage
Happy New Year.
You too king!
What if Itachi and Kisame swapped fights.
Easy for Itachi, more interesting forKisame.
Great video. However the last battle should be using Edo nagato. I missed if it was Edo or alive. Because Edo would have regen and unlimited chakra supply (like itachi had) also I feel like Edo itachi > Alive. Simply because it has better feats. So same might apply to nagato (at least in terms of chakra and stamina)
Yeah he’s like better in every conceivable category basically has an EMS
Omg a youtuber who doesn't think Jiraya beats Itachi? Thank you for actually reading the manga ^.^;
Always
I’ll take a jab at the $48. Asuma can blind the pains with ash and Kurenai can genjitsu similar to frog song?
W Minato video on the victims frr
When the sponsor wasn't Raid Shadow Legends. I was a little disappointed. Jaja. I got mad Stockholms.
15:31 what kind of itachi WANK is this. We know oro had a small portion of his chakra sealed in sasuke so this wouldn’t even be full chakra oro, we also know he was on his death bed when he died. So this oro isn’t even full chakra and would have a body that’s rejecting him. It’s just a nerfed oro vs nerfed itachi
My attempt for the 48 dollar Venmo:
Ight, so Kurenai is implied to be a decently impressive user of Genjutsu. Obviously her Genjutsu is a tier below Itachi, but she does have some level of proficiency their. Now we know all the Pains share vision. There is an interpretation that visual Genjutsu affects all the Pains. If you want to go with this line of thinking, Kurenai could tree bind all the Paths of Pain at once and Stab Tendo in the back of the head killing him instantly, and Asuma can try to axe off the rest of their heads while their binded. The Pains might not have an immediate response to an attack like this and fighting an opponent who can exploit their shared vision like this puts them at a notable disadvantage.
Nobody in fiction gets more benefit of doubt than Itachi lol
Word
Wait, snakes and frogs are very capable under water. Obviously with their summons they would have won, but i just mean narratively the sannin should win. But then the minato one shot comes in and scales prime hanzo to a perfect jinchuriki han and roshi
What about scenario of itachi vs Konan(with her preparing for the fight )
I dont think Itachi beats Jiraya. Dark swamp handles Susano which has no mobility and the Yata Mirror can't block like head on attacks but something from below i doubt it. Tsukuyomi is the biggest issue.
what game are you playing
Trust me even trying to explain this to jiraiya fans they literally go back to saying" I believe itachi when itachi says that part about jiraiya but not the part when itachi told kakashi that only someone of with the sharingan and kekegenki!!! Or the part when itachi says he lied to everyone around him because he trusted no one...
Jiraiya literally has done nothing since the 3 sanin broke up
I love how folks flip flop on the sannin when its convenient
Peep every vid I did I stay 100 on where the Sannin are Itachi & Pain are just them
Couldn’t you argue Kakashi was also trying to figure out Pain’s abilities vs just attacking him blindly with no other intention but to hurt him?
The fact that it is stated that Almighty Push repels everything is weird because I believe Naruto in the Kyuubi mode during his fight with him was able to force himself through it, unless that was an anime only scene, someone correct me on that if it is, but if its not, then the statement isn't very credible for saying "Everything"
ayyyy lessgo!
How about a video on “ the akatsuki vs the ninja alliance “
All members of the akatsuki alive. nagato and itachi isn’t sick ( including orochimaru ( 3way deadlock) and obito or tobi which ever you prefer vs ninja alliance kcm1 Naruto and ems sasuke including the five kage
I really enjoy these videos and the different analyses given, however I can’t help feel like Itachi is always way over scaled
I appreciate that! Where specifically? I’ll see if I can try explain more
Pein said if Jiraya knew Pein's secret Jeraya would win
Let’s not do this
@@ThunderGodTG That's what Pein said, but I don't see how Jiraya would survive Chibaku Tensei
BIG 20KKKKK
MY GOAT YESSIR
Hanzo solos the verse when underwater
the ENTIRE story would need to be rewritten for Itachi vs the leaf to be good. If Itachi was an actual villain there's no way he magically had some nameless disease that literally nobody else in the shinobi world ever suffered from. He'd just take his dad 's MS and get EMS and grow stronger than madara did while he was alive because Itachi had the highest potential of any shinobi. He just got fucked by writing.
The jiraiya downplay is insane here
If you wanna have a discussion on why sage jiraiya low diffs itachi, lemme know
Hey man! I’ve actually come across some of your vids I’ll be honest from what I’ve seen in the community I’m one of the dudes that actually thinks the Sannin are much more impressive I’d def reccomend something like my Sannin vs The Akatsuki vid, but I am pretty adamant Itachi/Pain stand above the Sannin individually. I’ll grab your discord tho for the sake of it just cause maybe you have some arguments or scaling I’m not privy to
@@ThunderGodTG idk why my comment isn't here, I poured my heart and soul into the paragraph
But can you send me your discord, plz? I just updated my username and idk if discord is different or I'm just old
You got a twitter? Hm there
@@ThunderGodTG konoha_SHAZAM
One shinra tensei and kabutos cave will be gone😀
Im no expert but it looks like hanzo and ibisu stand in a puddle, you can see it by the salamanders feet. I dont really think he did a kisame to the sanin and dragged em into a lake- but yeah, i have no emotion regarding this thought and may be wrong
Naruto characters can walk on deep pools of water so its shallowness is probably deceptive.
But I also think Hanzo is just weaker than a lot of people think he was even in his prime and that any powerful mid tier Kage (like the 4th Raikage) would’ve been able to beat up the young sannin too
It could also be the more shallow part of the body of water like the shore of a beach as we don't see the end at it's a little vague we just thought it was really dope
Don't let this distract you from the fact that Kabuto beat amaterasu with earth style.
Surpirsed it wasnt raid shadow legends ong
Tg 😂 mayne when it comes to the sanin vs itachi you're so biased.
Firstly jiraya and orochimaru's battle IQ is nowhere near in the same realms as shown in the series(orochimaru blindly and carelessly fights and underestimates his opponents).
Human path pain or any other body except tendo is not above sm jiraya, clearly shown.
The answer for tsukuyomi is strategy(no eye contact, that is well established in the series something orochimaru has not figured out😂)
We just didn’t read the same manga, also sitting here like I haven’t done multiple other vids saying the Sannin are insane. Disagreeing is not Bias the arguments in the video were entirely valid.
Orochimaru literally has far more knowledge than Jiraya on jutsu so that’s just not true. Idk what you’re referencing with blindly or carelessly.
The human path clowned Jiraya, reacted and blocked his fastest attack in Sage Mode, Beat him down in physical strength while blinded and in a smoke bomb, it’s clearly shown and stated by jiraya if he stayed there he would have died.
Why is it okay to say Jiraya can pull these crazy combos but Itachi can’t eventually force eye content through clone variations or other means during the fight?
Again I have no problems disagreeing but jumping on the “bias” train when you didn’t address 99% of what I said and hopping around the comments to say I’m Bias is trash af. Feel free to unsubscribe if it bothers you that much.
@@ThunderGodTG so in the manga panel you showed itachi is the one saying they would not win jiraya not kisame😆.
Orochimaru knows more about jutsu from a more scientific point cuz he's always cooking something or someone in his labs.
On the point of itachi and combos,jiraya is way stronger in sm and itachi in terms of strength is nowhere close to sm jiraya. Human path did not clown jiraya 😆 he blocked his attack and what shocked jiraya was that he attacked from his blindspot and he saw his attack(jiraya was shocked about the shared vision which was the problem and not physical strength).
The pain bodies are way more durable that a living ninja so the physical attacks jiraya used were really powerful because of sm and itachi physically is not on par with sm jiraya .
And you are biased🤣 when it comes to comparing sannin vs itachi🤣 and biased doesn't equate to I hate you and your channel😭...🤣 I love the debates😁.
And why I say your biased is because when itachi says jiraya would beat kisame and himself-it can't be taken literally but orochimaru says something to itachis credit it should be taken literally(and orochimaru running from itachi on both occasions isn't a real fight same when itachi and kisame ran from jiraya😁)
Before watching my thought is the ninja world would have ended let’s see how that opinion goes
Same video for Obito vs Itachi
My favorite part of these videos is how each video TG makes contradicts the previous video lmao.
Also yeah, love the argument "we've seen paper beat the shit out of rock, and we've seen the feats of rock and how he blitzed scissor, making paper the obvious best one ever, cause feat wise paper has beat rock, who lost EASILY to paper". Snorefest, honestly just lazy
This is such a nothing comment you ain’t even critique shit you just yapped, I ain’t got a problem with dudes disagreeing but, this is literally just hot air, be better king
And my opinions are allowed to change overtime if I stagnated over the course of the channel’s career I would not be doing a good job I’m constantly researching, getting new translations engaging with others, and coming up with new opinions/ coming across new info so you are spouting pure cap again I implore you to drop an actual critique instead of whatever tf you wrote, again be better
I would have loved to see Itachi vs the Leaf Village. That's the one fight I think he loses that pain cleared.
They are different fighters, regardless of who you think the winner is, they have different arsenals
Itachi would've cleared them under the cover of night while they sleep. It's not his style to challenge a village in broad daylight.
How do u guyz come to the conclusion that pain held back against jiraiya he even underestimated him because he had to bring the other 3 paths and to top that of pain also mentioned that if jiraiya knew his secrets he probably lost
Couldnt sage Naruto fight Itachi with his eyes closed like Kabuto did?
I mean Naruto didn’t have to gather any more sage jutsu due to his clones gathering for him
Jiraiya also wasn't a perfect Sage though Naruto was he would have never caught Naruto punch
Jiraya still got stronger physically, Naruto’s more notably stronger
Kisame vs Hanzo ?
Sure Itachi beat Sage Mode Nartuo, and Itachi beats the 6 tails, but does Itachi beat the whole leaf village?!? Pain cleared 3 of these fights back to back to back and was about to seal 8 Tails Nartuo. Itachi would be caughing up blood by the time Naruro even showed up.
He does yeah. He just doesn't do it in the same way. Pain is a brute force fighter. Itachi a high IQ fighter. He does the job with stealth. And I would argue he likely accomplishes the task because of it. Pain came close but ultimately he took his first of 2 Ls there. Itachi never loses because he approaches every situation according to his strengths.
@@Blubackbubitachi its not defeating 10000 shinobis man. He doesnt have chakra for that.
@@rodrigor.2847 takes almost no Chakra to throw a shruiken. 99% of the people in the villa are absolute fodder. He rolled the strongest clan when he was much weaker. And he did it in one night. Give him a week. Pain rolled in like a raid boss at full power. And he lost. Itachi doesn't lose because he relies more on his brains than his immense power. It's really not that complex.
@@Blubackbub wtf are you talking? pain defeated everyone he faced, the only time he lost was when minato interfered. And no itachi its not beating 10000 shinobis, a hokage, kakashi and genious like shikamaru with shurikens. Like this ideia its stupid, he doesnt even have this much shruiken.
@rodrigor.2847 you are about as smart as Pain lol. We literally have him no diffing the strongest clan in the dead of night when he is younger. I already explained he wouldn't make the same entrance Pain did because he isn't stupid. Also shruikens don't disappear after you use them lol. What even. In a stealth mission you literally just pick them back up. And Pain DID lose. Cope up however you want. He lost. It happened.
Hyradora >6 tails Naruto > almighty push
I just can't see Itachi beating Sage Mode Jiraya. No way. Jiraya is a leaf ninja so he knows about the sharingan. Those black flames are not catching him either
Amaterasu is based purely on the perception of the user unless you argue Jiraya is actually a perception tier above Itachi (he’s not) he’s getting tagged
@@ThunderGodTG cs2 hebi sasuke has lower perception than itachi and he was able to dodge amaterasu for quiet a while. Don't get me wrong i still think itachi takes this, just a comment on your argument.
FunFact: Nagato got nerfed in da story.
Itachi and Nagato clear each others opponents
Itachi and Nagato > Obito
Amaterasu burned fire. It could burn a dust cloud.
Amterasu has never demolished anything let's be honest
WTFFF HANZO FRAUD
ITACHI dies in all fights Pain has. Hanzo waxes, Pervy Sage waxes, the leaf wins with no difficulty. Itachi lost to Habi Sasuke. That's enough to tell me that alive Itachi without infinite Charka loses to 99% of the show.
Bro read the manga blindfolded
😂😂
If itachi really wanted to kill sasuke, the fight would have ended in 2 min
Overhyping Itachi , itachi is strong very strong but not sage mode Naruto or even jiraya ,and it’s hard to put sage mode under genjutsu because the can fight with eyes closed .
Honestly Itachi knew about the Hydra from experience meaning Akatsuki Oro already had his higher form and he was still like “Yeah im not posting that shit I got my ass kicked by a 13 year old” so it’s crazy but I think kid Itachi beats Hanzo.
Also I just think Kabuto is too fast for Nagato, white rage is just his worst nightmare.
Itachi won't attack leaf viage tho.
What if baryon mode hagoromo fought momoshiki with isshiki absorbed
Probably dies
If Momoshiki absorbed Isshiki then Hagoromo loses very badly
Hagaromo dies easily
Hagoromo stomps, that MF can create every abilitie he wants
💀💀💀
Most of these fights are one extreme or another of unbalanced fight. They're either "paper vs. scissors" where the characters are comparable in power but one has specific abilities that hard-counter the other, or they're "Ultra Instinct Goku vs. that dude with a shotgun from the opening of DBZ" power gaps.
It just kinda happened like that tbh
@@ThunderGodTG Yeah, they all make sense to be that way, it's just funny that it's how they played out.
You mentioned in the Nagato vs Kabuto fight that Nagato would have intel on sage mode users. It made me think what would happen if Nagato or Pain actually beat Naruto. How would the war arc play out? That might be a good topic for another video. Hope you’re having a great New year. 🎉
Thank you! You too!
Pain actually beat Naruto and got caught of guard by the nine tails power not by the nine tails itself and only plot saved Naruto at that point 😂
I feel if sage Naruto was put under tsukuyomi, Kurama would just take over and stomp Itachi.
Honestly, a very real possibility.
"and stomp itachi" you thini itachi couldnt handle half of the 9 tails?
@@AidenB1010 ya nah,taka sasuke who beat sick itachi, with suigetsu jugo and karin barely "survived" 8 tails, bro got reversed jumped by killer bee and sasuke was considerably stronger than he fought itachi
@@romusa10 1. That sasuke's victory was allowed by Itachi.
2. As soon as Sasuke learned Amaterasu, he one shot Bee, which Itachi already has
@@carlotage23 - allowed or not, itachi still gave his full arsenal, he went full force so orochimaru could spawn and get rid of him.
- That Sasuke's victory was also allowed by bee, remember how effective amaterasu againts naruto? After took a hit once and used the tentacle sub like he did againts sasuke, bee would use chakra cloack to protect himself and brush it aside like it's nothing. Remember, despite his attitude his battle IQ is quite high.
If the pain gets stronger when they are closer to nagato
wouldn’t that mean jiraiya faught a full power version since nagato would be in that village at the time and not somewhere on the outskirts of it hiding in a tree?
Yeah but pain was holding back
Yes but Pain had to hold back as he didn't want to reveal all his abilities or damage the rain village too much
Pain held back because of his attachment to Jiraiya, the location of the fight (his village), his secret and the fact that he underestimated Jiraiya (because he felt above him power scaling wise)
I actually hear this argument a lot and while I could see a case we don’t even know where in the rain village pain is so to just say he’s be a tier greater if any at all is always weird to me. Like the most it would impact is the speed at which Nagato can send chakra to the paths as there’d be a shorter distance as opposed to a stat buff.
@@ThunderGodTG Yeah I'm not sure how much of a tier increase it would be exactly, but I do think it's interesting to consider Nagato had to move fairly close to the leaf village in order to conduct his attack so I can't imagine it would be too far away
I do wonder how Pain/Nagato would have sorted out Itachi if he was the one who broke out of Edo Tensei. Pretty sure the human path can seal Itachi, assuming all-mighty pull can pull Itachi out of a Susano'o. Would love to hear TG's opinion.
Brilliant analogy
It's universal pull btw (bansho tennin).
Pretty sure sussanoo can move
@@kaigelling7157 fun fact - Itachi's Susano'o is the only one without legs. So his doesn't move by itself.
@@DarthMagog But we don't know if Bansho Ten'in could pull Itachi out of his Susano'o or if it would move along with him. Even if he was pulled out, there's things he can do, like send an explosive clone ahead or just reactivate the Susano'o, even if just an arm to attack Tendou. Kakashi doesn't have a Susano'o and he survived the jutsu. Plus, I bet Tendou can't use both Bansho Ten'in and Shinra Tensei at the same time.
Itachi mops the floor with sage mode jiraiya what are we talking about?
Spit king
@@ThunderGodTGyo videos are so good keep cooking
Appreciate that king ✊🏻
They each demolish each others fights up until the last where they lose each others respective battles lol.
Itachi doesn’t have the stamina or destructive power to obliterate all of Konoha in basically one attack, though he could beat Sage Naruto rather easily imo.
Pain and Sasuke get beat by Kabuto very badly. Not only can they not undo Edo Tensei without Izanami. But sound genjustu inside the cave is a one shot, Nagato can’t break Sasuke out and Sasuke likely can’t break Nagato out because Rinnegan users are immune to ocular justu.
Cant Naruto fight Itachi with his eyes closed? Sage Mode doesnt need his eyes open to fight here?
I do believe he still loses but it would be more interesting like that.
He can to a degree but, he ain't gonna be running around eyes closed fighting someone of Pain's Caliber tbh and even then Itachi could potentially genjutsu the Sage Toads or the Big 3 Toads to fight for him as well, so it's legit just which target he wants
Can you give a reason why he can't fight with someone on pain's calibre eyes closed? Kabuto did it against EMS Sasuke and Itachi the whole fight + we know that Naruto in sage mode can sense the whole 4th shinobi war from turtle island a country away (which he obviously can't see) so this should be no issue at all. @@ThunderGodTG
@@austinwinston1231I mean. Imagine if he fought Pain with his eyes closed? We would have probably gotten wrecked much faster than he did in actuality. It would be similar with Itachi. A physically nerfed Itachi easily swapped hands with a much stronger version of Naruto with just his base sharingan.
@@austinwinston1231he used snake senses more than sage mode for that
He didn't close his eyes though. He used snake lids to nullify the genjutsu. He could still see them@@austinwinston1231
Awesome video. These are my favorite kinds of videos from you. I can forgive the inaccuracies and circle talk because I didn't even realize this video is an hour long, it flew by. I'm going to check out the Virhtue video about Itachi vs Pain now.
That’s awesome, Glad you enjoyed it!
For the Itachi vs 6tails Naruto fight: Itachi was shown to be weaker in raw stats vs that Hebi sasuke, he was on his deathbed. He only survived cause of hacks and the moment he pulled his last bit of power, susanoo, he dies. Pain is an Uzumaki and this had a lot of longevity. Shinra tensei not working didn't deter pain....... but the moment amaterasu doesn't work wither by dodging or raw chakra wind lol, Itachi is done! 6 tails naruto may not destroy his susano but Itachi can't last at THAT LEVEL of conflict for more than a minute when he's THAT sick.
6:00 Ain't no way bro's argument is "he's wet" when it's raining 💀
LMAO THAT's ALSO TRUE BUT STILL
tbh i’ve never thought itachi loses to any forms of jiraya lol
He Low diffs every jiraiya, he’s a completely different caliber of shinobi to all the saanin he could 3v1 low diff honestly
Jiriaya stans cling to one pre retcon statement from itachi saying he and Kisame wouldn’t beat Jiriaya even with reinforcements. Which was just an excuse to get Kisame to leave.
But then we see that with reinforcements Jiriaya dies to 3 paths of pain lol. All of which are weaker individually and likely collectively than Itachi or Kisame. They’re so funny
@@hmmmmmm6901he would low diff them all 1vs1 for sure but 3vs1 is a different story
In the anime Kakashi *did* die 😅 he saw his dad waiting on him😂
Itachi 🤡 fans use others statement against Vs video but if it against Itachi they made fun of it.
That statement is so garbage to use for or against as you’d ignore context and the rest of the series. Even if you wanted to say Jiraya > that’s not the way to do it.
@@ThunderGodTG pain's paths get more powerful if they are near Nagato and The one Naruto defeated is fatigued and need full intel so without knowing pian's full power you can't scale Jiraiya...
Agree to disagree friend
And hebi sasuke not gonna counter Animal path's Animals....
W I Agree with every single matchup
W Vid, Congrats on 20k, appreciate you having me on here, had a great time!🎉
YO! Just discovered your videos, they’re great!!
@@___________0Z0X thank you!
Great upload as usual TG, don't mind me coming in with my usual nitpick. If you give me a chance to stand up for Kakashi, I'm gonna stand up for Kakashi
35:12 In Part one, Kakashi said he can only do 3 Raikiris in one day. Then in Shippuden he could only use Kamui twice a day. Kakashi does both of these things in the Pain Arc, and also does a lightning style clone. I don't think Kakashi's reserves are as light as you suggest tbh, it seems more like he's spamming jutsu with high chakra costs. You're comparing Itachi's stamina reserves to Kakashi, when Itachi was trying to kill himself from exhaustion. I'd be more impressed with Itachi's stamina in the Sasuke fight if he didn't die from doing all that. But Itachi used fewer ninjutsu than Kakashi did. Also he only used MS 3 times, once more than Kakashi when he died. You also have to consider that Sharingan techniques are vastly more draining for non-Uchiha
I'm only thinking about the anime versions of the fights, so that could be a discrepancy
It's not like this changes the outcome, Kakashi still loses to Itachi sadly
How does Kabuto put down Nagato …..the amount of win cons Nagato has is crazy, Soul removal,chibaku tensei,chakra rods,Gedo statue soul dragon,chaotic shinra tensei in this enclosed cave is a GG,the summons especially the replicating dogs . Nagato being an edo just helps him out even more he doesn’t even need Saskue’s help.Knowing the Rinnegan abilities also doesn’t matter ,he also knew itachi’s abilities and the Rinnegan’s are way more broken.
Off topic ,why was Madara able to use Hashirama’s sage chakra instantly n didn’t turn into a slug or whatever his sage mode is.
He had more Hashi cells, and Madara is a super prodigy god of shinobi.
@@___________0Z0X bro was busted lol