How well do you all know the zombies? Share your scores below! *Also thanks to the comments that pointed out that technically the test 11 setup for the right side is actually slightly longer if you count the total block distance between the bars. It is actually 10.24m versus 10.07m. Without spoiling anything, I think the result still stands due to the left corner test before moving to the edge. *Also apparently in test 13, I said cobblestone when I meant to say concrete. Tests 13 and 14 were done with concrete! I had cobblestone on the brain as I was building in tandem for next weeks video and that uses a lot of cobblestone :) Thanks eagle eyed viewers!!
Test 11: Left in total is 6.24 + 5 (4 down, side 1) = 11.24. Right in total is 7.07 + 3 (2 down, side 1) = 10.07 Right side path is shorter by 1.17 (^.^)
I got 6 and I've been playing since the beginning in the good old days. Ouch. Love all your vids. Might have a few non Cheese base ideas for you cause I have a lot of experience. Your rock dude!
Check out CautiousPancake as well. He also tends to focus on game mechanic stuff, and he makes some pretty interesting bases as well. They're pretty similar, though Pseudo Posse injects more humor I'd say. Both very informative and helpful 7DTD resources.
I enjoy the content more than jawoodle, anyway! but cautious pancake is also a great youtuber. but...yeah, going into the core basics of a principle to explain and test it FULLY is really important. we need that foundational understanding in order to build from it successfully, and not get confused by things down the line.
@@pseudoposse I'm doing a "spencer mansion" build on console, and I'm thinking of incorporating it into a horde base, this video helped greatly! I'll be sure to include this video in my pinned comments when I do start.
I've played for thousands of hours over both ps4 and then pc. Thousands. You have dropped details that have opened up some nuances to me that i had not thought of before. I feel like i have a masters in 7 days to die but you're over here teaching doctoral stuff. Well done. Im sure the time needed isn't worth the effort, but i would find it fascinating to see the details of how the ai worked throughout the betas, especially right before they made the change to structural engineer zombies.
Fantastic video! I have a recommendation for another technical but short video. Environmental effects and fall damage. Can zombies drown or swim fine? What can be done with water? Do zombies take fall damage? How high does a fall need to be for them to die? Does blocks falling on them hurt them? Etc etc
I'll see what I can do! But I can give you some quick answers. Zombies don't drown, and pretty much behave as they do on land with pathing. If there is an underwater path, they will follow that as they do on land rather than swim even if swimming is a shortcut. Zombies do take fall damage but the damage is capped so they cannot be killed by one fall. And I don't think falling blocks do much to zombies, certainly if they take damage, it isn't enough to be useful. But I get the point! I do have a fun video I am working on now that will come out in ~2 weeks that looks into a certain mechanic for some hilarious cheese :)
I got 6/14, and i missed the bonus point 😂 Honestly, i expected to do worse. But i do feel like a couple of those were trick questions. Id need to watch again to know which ones. Thanks for making this stuff!! Your editing and ideas are masterful.
Q6 options were wrongly set up: What actually happens is a mix of option a and c - as seen in the video. Also, notice that the range of jumps that are tried and the exact choice of pathes by enemies depend on the ability of the enemies (read: on attributes in their xml definition, among them "JumpMaxDistance" and the "AIPathCostScale"). Also notice that the times were the pathing was deterministic - as it started out in A17 - are gone. Pathing options for the enemies get randomized - at least since A19 - which is clearly visible in Q7. Q9 was unexpected for me. I expected a certain randomization. BUT it could be that randomization only happens on certain decisions and/or when multiple enemies are present at the same time. Q10 also unexpected. But could be explained using the simple path length rule IF the stairs are actually calculated as ramps, but the cubes are calculated as 1m vertical + 1m horizontal. Q11 was wrongly set up: The path on the left side is actually 8.2 m long versus the path on the right side being 7.07m. You forgot to factor in the horizontal two meters at the bottom of the stairs on the left. For the final run: The distance from the back left point to the entry of the stair on the right is actually > 6.6 m, while the distance to the entrance of the ladders on the left side > 4m, thus changing the overall length of the left path to be greater than that of the right path (which you got wrong in the first place). Don't be too sad about slip errors of that kind - i am a master of slip errors and and can assure you: We will all survive that. The good thing about that result is: Q11 actually ensures the - simple - path length priority rule. But keep in mind that there are "AIPathCostScale" attriutes in the xml definitions, which i expect to refer to some different aspects of pathes (vertical versus horizontal or linear versus rotation or block versus door or anything like that). Q12 is similar to Q11 and Q10: Applying the model of stairs == ramps (thus counting 1.4 m), the whole case fits neatly into the simple path length model. Q13 has a wrong stipulation from the start: Cobblestone has 1500 HP, not 5000. Then you WRITE about "cobblestone", but you SPEAK about "concrete". That are two levels of confusion at the formulation of the problem at hand. Since we do not know what kind of blocks you are ACTUALLY using to set up your obstacles, and the two possible versions differing drastically, we can not even give a crude estimate. After completion of test 13, the questions remains: Were that 5000 or just 1500 HP on the left side (well: actually accounting for 10'000 resp. 3'000, since the zombie would have to remove two blocks to get through...)? Thus, is the threshold 5:1 or 2:1? And is the implemented comperator ">" or ">="? None of those questions got answered so far. Q14 was again unexpected. Thus, summa summarum, i learned something new even after having more than 12'000 hours in this game. And Q13/14 was especially interesting since it shows that when having doorways linked to the zombie entrance, it is still possible to force the zombies to other pathes just by adding enough layers of doors. Well done.
Yes I am aware of the cost scale of ai decision making as I've done a bunch of modding in the past :) For Test11, if you want to get *super* technical, it is actually 10.24 vs 10.07 if you count the distance up to the bars. Which yes, my mistake. However, I think the result still holds as when I stood in the back left corner, they still wanted to run right. At that point, the distance was definitely longer on the right. It wasn't until I was on the very edge that they went left. Yeah I knew the overall ground distance was longer in Test12 which is why I spawned off center in subsequent attempts. There were points (not sure how many made it in to video) in which the distance was shorter from to ladder from stairs, yet they still opted to go to stairs until it was super close. For Test 13, if I said cobblestone, that was an accident. I was doing a cobblestone build for the next video at the same time and had cobblestone on the brain. It was all concrete for that test.
Test 11 has an issue - the stairs + ladders may be shorter, but the path to them is longer, so the path from start point to player is shorter on the stairs side.
Yeah, I tried to make it as close as possible by constraining the zombie path with bars so that the horizontal block length was the same for each route. But if I added an extra block between stairs and ladder, then that path would have had an "extra" block.
@pseudoposse same comment. I'd move the stairs off center by 1 block to make the path 2 blocks longer total. May not be perfect depending on how devs compute corners.
Thanks for this! I got 10 (no bonus). I wonder if there's any difference between ramps and stairs. That was a lot of work and I appreciate every bit of it! Cheers!
Excellent video EK. I won't share my score, as I am embarrassed of it given the number of hours I have in this game. Suffice it to say, less than 8...but I do claim the bonus.
@15:25 you're not adding the distance from where you spawn the zombie to the bottom of the stairs. The grey path, which is part of the distance they have to travel to get to you. So therefore, the left path is not shorter... the right path is... The next test, the ladder side is a longer path, its going on the xy axis and then the z axis... the stairs combine those which makes it shorter...
Yeah for test 11, if you count those ground blocks, the left path is slightly longer (10.24 vs 10.07]. But, the result still stands I think as when I was in back corner on left side, they still wanted to go right unless I was right on the edge. Technically, that is correct again! But again, i would make same argument that the result is still correct as it took spawning them really close to the ladder to make them run that way. Not included in the video, but I did spawn them a block or two further then that in front of the ladder and they still went for stairs. So ladder path was still shorter and yet they went for stairs.
This was fun. I got 10/15. And yes, fifteen. I didn't get the bonus point but for some reason expected 15 questions 😀 Another interesting question would be "How far are zombies able to track a path to the players?" Cause some of me bigger builds (zombie traps) when I got carried away didn't work out properly and the zombies were sniffing at the pillars/basement, instead of taking the stairs far away but with pretty much direct path to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That one behavior I still don't fully understand. I fully get the 15 (often more like 16) block distance to avoid them being all angry and start smashing stuff around. But if you bypass the distance and they come from the opposite side of the stars (that's important part) they often don't seems to register the path (stairs) and go for pillars/other stuff. But if I lead them to stairs or they spawn at the correct side, they work correctly and even loop if the build involves that.
That is a respectable score! The problem with what you just described goes back to the fundamental workings of the zombie ai. They will follow the path of least resistance. So if you make a direct, but long path, they will see it as too much trouble and instead beat on your supports. That is an issue with large bases. Since zombies can spawn N, S, E, W from the player, your base needs to have entrances to accommodate any potential spawn locations. And if zombies drop out of your base and need to re-enter, make sure the path is short enough that they'll be willing to travel. The ai is always weighting the strength of the supports, versus the length of the path (if there is a path). So the stronger you make the supports, the longer you can make the path. But there are limits.
@@pseudoposse I think the alternative staircase should do the trick in my scenario. I was mostly surprised, because while I called it big, it's certainly nowhere near the total length of some of the obstacle courses features on your channel. It also works perfectly for the zombies that get drop offed. And it works without flaw if I move out of my safe house closer to the drop point. Idea was to have them long enough on a flat surface going in a direct line for us to shoot, while keeping it super low tech with any additional parts and needs of repair kept to minimum (so no electric fence, not even barbed wire etc...). But not all zombies that spawn near our safe house go for the staircase on the opposite side. Some of them instead deciding to stick around and start smashing thing. My force field at the base of safe house confusing them even more, but they even go as far as penetrating even that. Given the thickness of the support and how high we are in the air + the force field at the bottom I didn't really expect them to ignore the wide staircase. My ideas were: a) Bottom of the staircase too far for them to consider as the easier path or some issue with registering that path even exist -> hence my question if there is a maximum block distance zombies will know to look during their pathing decision. That could be interesting test. b) Entrance towards the corridor/bridge too heavily fortified. Given it's a zombie dropper this part wasn't even needed, but I like to add additional safe measures. Possibly quickly adding a path for zombies to reach us is one of them, hence the fortified 'window'. I think I used the usual stuff in the classic melee/shooting window defense. But maybe the combined hitpoints make this path less viable for zombies. c) Ladder and door combination making this a preferred entrance, due to the zombies being big fan of doors. Also this taught me that using basic forcefield of Cube Hole right under the 2 block of the ground ladder will actually enable zombies to jump out of the hole and reach the ladder if lucky 😀 Definitely going for the Storage Block next time, if not using a proper trench
1: I'm guessing Floats, cause their attack reach is often too accurate...I feel like i could cheese it more if it were interger. V 2: C, because they try to reach your Y level, to attack.V 3: [didn't listen carefully enough to the question but yeah, i did honestly know it's shorter path/least resistance, though.V 4:A enter rage mode, and destroy area.V 5:B they do like to appraoch player FIRST. that's part of the basis of a lot of base designs. 6:C there's gonna be some that climb up to reach you, and fall off, and realising this, they'll start going to destroy area mode and going after the pillar. 7: proximity will yield priority, most of the time. 8:B the higher path, as it gets them closest. 9:A always path of least resistance, barring random variables, like clogged staircase, and just...silliness, like if you spawn a crowd, the ones lcosest to the staircase from that spawn spot will take the shorter stair, most likely. [didn't know facing has an effect, but we can assume we're not gonna be spawning them in, and that they will always be facing the player and approaching from beyond the perimeter of the hoard base, or what ever....so I think the correct answer should be A still. 10:intuition says stairs. but I legit don't know! [wait was that B? I thought it was A your test sheet needs work.] 11:B more difficult. but...do you know? I'm gonna go with B because I swear they go for verticality first, and the ramp does that....but it's kinda a guess at this point. 12:A yeah, you can get them to take the ladder but it circles back to test 2 making it "least resistance" that can generally mean you have to bring it closer, perhaps in a temporal sense. the time to climb beling less than the time to walk the ramp. 13:I"m guessing 2 doors to make them prefer the block. but I don't have much direct experience with doors so this is a guess. 14:B I think I heard 53 when using a different test with "nonpathableish" blocks. but another flat guess, really. Bonus:XX I didn't even think about it. i dind't correct myself at the start, but I think I got 11/14, though, so i'm happy enough with that.
@@pseudoposse for sure! I recall the ancient days...of RongotheBold's rongo labs. I remember spider what used to also be the screamer...the two OTHER variants of ice zombie, I remember the giant bee, and the hive they rarely lived in, where you could collect honey...I am one of the OG. i've SEEN some things. [started playing back in like Alpha...FOUR.]
Theory regarding Test 9: When zombies are far away, rather than making a beeline to the player, they will pick a certain "point" between the player and the zombie to path to first, (I'm thinking 14 blocks) go there, and then re-calculate their pathing again. This is why they move towards the stairs they are facing--they are pathing not to the player but to the best route to this "point". The reason why I believe this is the case is because zombies show signs of doing this during Blood Moon. It's especially obvious on multiplayer servers with more players than the game can handle, because some of the zombies will path to this "point" and then just stand there, like they're bugged out and can't calculate the next "point".
Hmm that could be. It depends on how the pathing algorithm is set up. If they immediately calculated an optimal path at the moment they sense you, then you wouldn't ever see it. There could be a waypoint type of algorithm where they try to hit up those intermediate goals first before reaching the player.
Can you do a guide on water bases? And zombie water pathing? As well as under water forcefield blocks? Basically how to make an oil rig type base in a lake work properly
11 (no bonus) and it's not 5k vs 5k (single door) even if he can path through a single block space.. he very very likely needs to destroy the second block so it's 5k door vs 10k 2concrete blocks since he'll bash the upper block first (the one at chest height) but won't be able to crawl through without help of a dog or another zombo -> make a crawling path for comparable results
considering how bad zombies are at destroying blocks which are harder to reach (below waist and above head) he probably has to destroy or will destroy more than 2 blocks before he can reach you, so the door option makes perfect sense.. bash on one easily reachable block vs 2+ blocks where 1-2 are hard to reach please test this again -> how much time do they need to destroy blocks above their head.. below their waist etc. compared to at chest level i'm curious and i'm certain this is also factored into their pathing
@@pseudoposse if you show me the boe crawling through if the gap is 1 block high in a regular block wall, otherwise i'm not convinced even if he is able to path through the 1block high 1m gap.. he has to crawl and running is preferred over any other form -> see ladders - stairs since i've built crawler bases i know how inconsistent their crawling is (if you don't make it easy for them).. but hey i'm just giving you free content ideas :P
@@broinlol That is easy to show, in fact, I can show you going through a less than 1m gap ;) Just check out our melee base video several video back for proof of that. But in general whenever I have done a horde, if 1 block gets destroyed, the zombies will start flooding in. Crawling can definitely be inconsistent, and is dependent on zombie height. Appreciate the ideas :D
@@pseudoposse i'm not doubting if they can go through a 1m gap.. i doubt they can go through a 1m gap thats 1block high easily especially if it's 1 zombie like in the test.. if it's more they can stack and bump each other into that gap, but a single one?
Test whether zombies will path to the player IF they must first travel above the player's height above ground, then back down to the player. Will zombies travel up to go down?
Welp... Hm. ... 6/14 1- (X) Heck, didn't think they make them that accurate. 2- Expected. 3- Expected. 4- Expected. 5- (X) I don't even know why I got this one wrong... I guess I'll still count it wrong even though if any of the zombies nudge each other off they'd go into a rage mode and start beating on a nearby pillar, when in reality that's not what they "want to do" initially, it's just rage. 6- (X) I will say it's annoying here because I've witnessed zombies with a clear-cut pillar-jumping and pole-laid-out path just beat on the top of a pillar instead of continuing to get towards me. It's irritating to see them destroy the literal platform they're on that *HELPS* the zombies get to me, and if they remove it it makes it impossible for them to use that path. However, I sort of got this one wrong because I never see them bash on the pillar supports, but I see them bash on the main block they can stand on. I do notice they rid a pillar supporting something completely useless to getting to me however... which is still annoying (I hate the AI). 7- Expected them to care for the height. I *will* say B is correct *IF* both endpoints are equidistant and they end at the same height, but because the height is lower on the left - it's not technically equidistant and it's also on a lower height. 8- Same. 9- (X) *what* >:c 10- (X) 11- (X) ... 😒 12- *FINALLY* >:l ... Also I am not giving myself a point because I still don't find that to be an exploit. It's like stating you're exploiting someone in a wheelchair by using stairs while they have to go around for a ramp. The animals simply can't climb ladders, so they only see one path. I'd find it to be exploiting if the ladder IS a path that they could climb but get filtered out because there are two bars to the sides of the ladder. 13- (X) I will state, A and B are obvious (to me) as they see it as "Destroying 2 blocks to get to you" on the left, and "Destroying 2 blocks (doors) to get to you" on the right. So it couldn't be the first two. Since doors are multiblocks, the HP is divided dependent on the size (likewise, the weight is multiplied by the size). So for example, a 5x3 door having 15,000 HP is viewed as just a wall of blocks with 1,000 HP per block. Likewise, each of these doors is actually "2500 HP" to the zombie - and I bet somewhere in the code they also factor in how easy it is for the zombies to buff each other to break down a block/wall/door. I also suppose they go for it as it is something that can be "Opened" - so it has a state in which it CAN get through (like if they were to bust down an iron-bar door enough, they can go through the hole, or if a player just leaves it open). However, I didn't guess before the answer was given and I also wouldn't expect the answer either. Also, 20:10 confused me a bit "with a single concrete, 5000 Hitpoint wall" but on screen it shows Cobblestone. Each Cobblestone block is 1,500 so 2 of it would be 3,000 - whereas each concrete block is 5000, so 2 of it would be 10,000. So the zombie is contemplating on either bashing through 3,000 HP or 10,000 HP - a big difference. The Iron Door however *IS* 5000 HP (at least the variant you used). So presuming it's a wall of concrete which is 10,000 - it seems it takes twice the HP of door HP resistance to remove the temptation of doors and focus on walls instead. So 20,000 HP of door < 10,000 HP of wall. I guess it helps to nailgun shoot a block or two to see the HP of the walls around a building and compare it to the door to see if the door is tempting enough or not. 14- (X) It wasn't A because A was tested in the background 😅... and hecc.. I chose D. I expect zombies can't path farther than 40, so they won't even see the door if the door is too far to reach (because they can't "see" the path), but I didn't factor in how they still view the door as some level of resistance. *I WAS CLOSE THOUGH* :p
16:15 you forgot the flat ground distance which turn 6.24m to 8.24m vs 7.07m i guess 🤔 minor mistake no big deal still a good content 👍 Edit: i only got 8 score lol
Yeah I didn't add up that total length below. And if you add everything up to the bar it is actually 10.24 to 10.07. But the result still holds I think as being in the left corner still resulted in them running right until I was on the very edge.
Wish the choice of blocks would’ve been explained…since they influence the pathing too, depending on shape and strength. So it kept me wondering why round shapes were chosen instead of cubes…plain design choice or does it have pathing relevance
You're logic on tests 11-12 is flawed. The zombies usea weighted algorithm based on (total path length), (path difficulty),(distance to player)+(a random decision maker) to decide. Test 11: Stair(right) side the zed has to walk 3 blocks level+7.07 blocks on stairs + 4 blocks level to a centered player. Ladder(left) side the zed has to walk 5 blocks level + 4.24 blocks on stairs + 2 blocks ladder + 4 blocks level to a centered player. Stairs=14.07 Ladder=15.24 + ladder difficulty modifier. Test 12 is the same. Stair(right) side the zed has to walk 5.65 blocks level + 8.48 blocks on stairs + 3 blocks level to a centered player. Ladder(left) side the zed has to walk 9.43 blocks level + 6 blocks ladder + 3 blocks level to a centered player. Stairs=17.13 Ladder=18.43 + ladder difficulty modifier. In both tests the ladder route is longer and more difficult. In test 12 when the player moved all the way to the far corner and the Zeds started using the ladder it was because of the added distance after getting to the top.
I did make a mistake not counting the bottom ground distance to the bars in which case, the distance from edge of bar to the top of the path is 10.24m on the right, and 10.07m on the left. But, I think the result still stand as when I stood on the left side (making the left side shorter), they still ran right. It took me being on the very edge for them to run left. Yes, test 12 also has a longer "path" on the bottom which is why I started spawning them closer to the ladder. Not sure how much made it into the video, but I spawned them at various other points closer to the ladder and at several of them, the ladder path was definitely shorter. But I definitely see your points, thank you for pointing them out!
so that's why Zed run over to my Door on first floor instead of running onto a staircase I prepare for the Battle station. Thanks alot dude, my Base got eaten by Zed because I dig a trench AAAAALLLL the way around my Area and some of them spawn far away, drop into a trench and start digging like a mole. If I got enough time, I'll transport Water into the Trench and made it Medieval style lol, not sure it will help about rage mode or not.
9/14 +1 very interesting stuff. Does you think they calculate a value of the possible paths with modifiers for the path type (straight flat is just distance x1.0, ramp is distance x1.5 ladder distance x2?) Where doors and walls have a value to break added to the path?
As they collect, especially in a confined space, they will squeeze each other up which then allows them to jump in top of each other. So bashing and piling are one on the same.
Unrelated to pathing, but I have some electricity "problems" I don't fully understand. I have a garage and automatic door set-up where the triggering camera see me 3 flights up through a concrete security gate, concrete full block and concrete half block. On the other hand I have a camera that can't see a zombie through a bullet proof glass plate for a dart trap set-up? Anything you know anything about. The garage thing is only slightly annoying, but I cannot understand the bulletproof glass thing. The dart set-up works perfectly well without a bulletproof plate in front of it, but doesn't without.
It is hard to exactly say without seeing your base. But in general, the motion sensor cannot see through solid bocks though anything that has holes/gaps (like the security gate) or is see through (like the glass) can be seen by the motion sensor. There might be some solid blocks that the motion sensor can see through which might explain what is going on.
@@pseudoposse Guess posting a video was not kosher? Sorry about that. Anyways as I said I have a camera in my current base that sees through 3 blocks (security gate expected, full block and half block unexpected). And another that cannot see through a bulletproof plate block (unexpected?). Thought it might have similar context to the cop spit findings, but the full block baffles me. Anyways thanks for the content, you come up with some fun stuff.
Do you have any data explaining what makes zed go into rage/destroy area mode? I see people suggesting specific heights. There's also the use of water.
I go into some more detail on that in our 80 beginner building tips video. But as far as why, it is when they take damage. So if you attack a zombie, they can go into rage mode where they run fast and chase after you. They will also go into rage when taking fall damage. But if they fall far enough from the player, it prevents rage. Water can also mitigate it though you need to make it deep enough. And if they take damage from another source like electric traps, that will also reset rage.
I have a question. On test 8 you said the answer was option a, the left side. In the video though, the zombie chose option b, the right side. Which is it? Thank you for the informative video either way! :)
Awesome thank you for this but I am curious about your second test. You spawned your zombies in front of the stairs. But would they consistently take the stairs if they were spawned so that they came from the opposite direction? Just like on hoard night the zombies can spawn from different directions so would they go the extra distance to use the stairs or beat the pillar?
@@TBathory I think you are talking about the fifth test. But yes, if you spawned them on the opposite side, they would ultimately run towards the stairs.
I was hoping you would do more with d wolves and bears. I am trying to get my paths to automatically filter the animals and zombies to use different paths.
@@pseudoposse I heard it, I just chose to ignore spoilers. And your videos are always satisfying. The best way I have currently found is to use a sideways door to break the path and periodically close it to let them through. You probably have better tricks than me.
13/14 +1 I use doors to attract zombies so no clue on the last one. I assumed they also disliked ladder paths, like jump block steps, because they travel at half speed on them. Is it possible to discus pathing without showing how to break the AI? Bonus was a free point.
Absolutely, I have no issues taking constructive criticism. All science requires peer review and scrutiny so I am glad you all can correct me when I make a mistake :)
sadly only 9 right.....no bonus. you could've made a bonus bonus question like: how many blocks away from Tacobear do you have to stand to avoid catching on fire when she mis-throws her molotov!
Test 13 you say 5000hp cobblestone, but are using concrete. This test is by far the most interesting. I had thought the reason the Zeds choose the door path "like a magnet" is when the logic goes to plot a path to the player it treats a door like open ground. However after 4 doors they changed their mind. So they aren't ignored completely. If a closed door adds some calculation to the zed path, what about an open door? What about a open hatch used as a wall?
I don't think open doors count but I'll have to doublecheck that to make sure! I am not sure if zombies have the same level of attraction to hatches...that is a good point!
@@pseudoposse my go to gate at the end of my zombie path is a hatch on the floor opened and blocking their movement. It doesn't seem to effect their pathing. Or if it does it's very slight like the doors in your test.
The last two are especially hard given there is no way to really logically come up with an answer. But that is the score I got myself so I'll say you did quite well! But maybe I am biased :D
i build a 11 hight tower with stairs for the zombies. theyy can get up and stand 1 block next to me with only 1 wall beetween us, but 50% start bashing my full solid 6x6 tower and try to destroy it xD its so mutch easer to come up the stairs and destroy that 1 block, why thy start dashing my tower ? =/
It could be dependent on the game stage (GS) of the horde. The strength of the tower might deter zombies at a lower GS than at a higher GS. Also, I generally avoid making a solid base as zombies in theory could bash blocks to tunnel up to you. So they might see that as a viable way to travel as well. I always make my towers hollow on the inside. Wall thickness usually varies from 1-3 blocks, but never completely solid.
Your math on test 11 is wrong you forgot to include the two additional blocks to get to the start of the stairs so it's 8.24 meters. Stairs are shorter than ladder
![I Play 100 Days Of 7 Days to Die REBIRTH Mod [1/10]](/img/n.gif)
How well do you all know the zombies? Share your scores below!
*Also thanks to the comments that pointed out that technically the test 11 setup for the right side is actually slightly longer if you count the total block distance between the bars. It is actually 10.24m versus 10.07m. Without spoiling anything, I think the result still stands due to the left corner test before moving to the edge.
*Also apparently in test 13, I said cobblestone when I meant to say concrete. Tests 13 and 14 were done with concrete! I had cobblestone on the brain as I was building in tandem for next weeks video and that uses a lot of cobblestone :)
Thanks eagle eyed viewers!!
Test 11: Left in total is 6.24 + 5 (4 down, side 1) = 11.24. Right in total is 7.07 + 3 (2 down, side 1) = 10.07
Right side path is shorter by 1.17 (^.^)
I got 6 and I've been playing since the beginning in the good old days. Ouch. Love all your vids. Might have a few non Cheese base ideas for you cause I have a lot of experience. Your rock dude!
I think you might be the best technical 7Days UA-camr. And if you aren’t, you’re definitely the best at explaining and recording.
Check out CautiousPancake as well. He also tends to focus on game mechanic stuff, and he makes some pretty interesting bases as well. They're pretty similar, though Pseudo Posse injects more humor I'd say. Both very informative and helpful 7DTD resources.
Thank you I definitely appreciate that a lot! And I am very fortunate to have taco do the amazing editing she does 😊
I enjoy the content more than jawoodle, anyway! but cautious pancake is also a great youtuber. but...yeah, going into the core basics of a principle to explain and test it FULLY is really important. we need that foundational understanding in order to build from it successfully, and not get confused by things down the line.
Thanks for doing all this testing, I hope this one blows up like your 80+ base building tips & tricks!
No problem, always love to test!
Thanks for another great video man!
You bet! Thanks for watching!
@@pseudoposse I'm doing a "spencer mansion" build on console, and I'm thinking of incorporating it into a horde base, this video helped greatly! I'll be sure to include this video in my pinned comments when I do start.
@@Skippy0330 Sounds awesome! Would love to see how it turns out!
I've played for thousands of hours over both ps4 and then pc. Thousands.
You have dropped details that have opened up some nuances to me that i had not thought of before. I feel like i have a masters in 7 days to die but you're over here teaching doctoral stuff. Well done.
Im sure the time needed isn't worth the effort, but i would find it fascinating to see the details of how the ai worked throughout the betas, especially right before they made the change to structural engineer zombies.
Yeah I don't think it will move the needle much on base design but I thought some of the little nuances were interesting.
This guy has a lot of UA-cam potential and I’m all for it
What a great video, thank you. Seeing Taco trying to climb ladders is the highlight of many of your videos 🤣
It always puts a smile on my face :D When we do our next playthrough, expect a TON of ladders for taco to climb!
10 / 14 + 1 :)
Eerieknight, my man: your are an awesome Zombiepedia!!!
Congratulations on getting that bonus! You know me better than me :D
Excellent video again!!
Thank you! Cheers!
I love how you made this video, so entertaining and informative!
Thanks so much!
You guys rock. Thank you for your creativity and content.
Absolutely!!
Had to watch the video twice, but definitely got them all right by the end.
Cool test setup and interaction with us :-) (10 without bonus) Maybe that can be reused with bandits in the future.
Yep it is already to go!
Fantastic video! I have a recommendation for another technical but short video.
Environmental effects and fall damage.
Can zombies drown or swim fine?
What can be done with water?
Do zombies take fall damage?
How high does a fall need to be for them to die?
Does blocks falling on them hurt them?
Etc etc
I'll see what I can do! But I can give you some quick answers. Zombies don't drown, and pretty much behave as they do on land with pathing. If there is an underwater path, they will follow that as they do on land rather than swim even if swimming is a shortcut. Zombies do take fall damage but the damage is capped so they cannot be killed by one fall. And I don't think falling blocks do much to zombies, certainly if they take damage, it isn't enough to be useful.
But I get the point! I do have a fun video I am working on now that will come out in ~2 weeks that looks into a certain mechanic for some hilarious cheese :)
@pseudoposse sounds awesome and thanks for the info!! Currently watching the 80+ tips video!!
I got 6/14, and i missed the bonus point 😂 Honestly, i expected to do worse. But i do feel like a couple of those were trick questions. Id need to watch again to know which ones.
Thanks for making this stuff!! Your editing and ideas are masterful.
That is a respectable score! At least one was a trick question 😁
Q6 options were wrongly set up: What actually happens is a mix of option a and c - as seen in the video. Also, notice that the range of jumps that are tried and the exact choice of pathes by enemies depend on the ability of the enemies (read: on attributes in their xml definition, among them "JumpMaxDistance" and the "AIPathCostScale").
Also notice that the times were the pathing was deterministic - as it started out in A17 - are gone. Pathing options for the enemies get randomized - at least since A19 - which is clearly visible in Q7.
Q9 was unexpected for me. I expected a certain randomization. BUT it could be that randomization only happens on certain decisions and/or when multiple enemies are present at the same time.
Q10 also unexpected. But could be explained using the simple path length rule IF the stairs are actually calculated as ramps, but the cubes are calculated as 1m vertical + 1m horizontal.
Q11 was wrongly set up: The path on the left side is actually 8.2 m long versus the path on the right side being 7.07m. You forgot to factor in the horizontal two meters at the bottom of the stairs on the left. For the final run: The distance from the back left point to the entry of the stair on the right is actually > 6.6 m, while the distance to the entrance of the ladders on the left side > 4m, thus changing the overall length of the left path to be greater than that of the right path (which you got wrong in the first place).
Don't be too sad about slip errors of that kind - i am a master of slip errors and and can assure you: We will all survive that.
The good thing about that result is: Q11 actually ensures the - simple - path length priority rule.
But keep in mind that there are "AIPathCostScale" attriutes in the xml definitions, which i expect to refer to some different aspects of pathes (vertical versus horizontal or linear versus rotation or block versus door or anything like that).
Q12 is similar to Q11 and Q10: Applying the model of stairs == ramps (thus counting 1.4 m), the whole case fits neatly into the simple path length model.
Q13 has a wrong stipulation from the start: Cobblestone has 1500 HP, not 5000. Then you WRITE about "cobblestone", but you SPEAK about "concrete". That are two levels of confusion at the formulation of the problem at hand. Since we do not know what kind of blocks you are ACTUALLY using to set up your obstacles, and the two possible versions differing drastically, we can not even give a crude estimate.
After completion of test 13, the questions remains: Were that 5000 or just 1500 HP on the left side (well: actually accounting for 10'000 resp. 3'000, since the zombie would have to remove two blocks to get through...)? Thus, is the threshold 5:1 or 2:1? And is the implemented comperator ">" or ">="? None of those questions got answered so far.
Q14 was again unexpected.
Thus, summa summarum, i learned something new even after having more than 12'000 hours in this game. And Q13/14 was especially interesting since it shows that when having doorways linked to the zombie entrance, it is still possible to force the zombies to other pathes just by adding enough layers of doors. Well done.
Yes I am aware of the cost scale of ai decision making as I've done a bunch of modding in the past :)
For Test11, if you want to get *super* technical, it is actually 10.24 vs 10.07 if you count the distance up to the bars. Which yes, my mistake. However, I think the result still holds as when I stood in the back left corner, they still wanted to run right. At that point, the distance was definitely longer on the right. It wasn't until I was on the very edge that they went left.
Yeah I knew the overall ground distance was longer in Test12 which is why I spawned off center in subsequent attempts. There were points (not sure how many made it in to video) in which the distance was shorter from to ladder from stairs, yet they still opted to go to stairs until it was super close.
For Test 13, if I said cobblestone, that was an accident. I was doing a cobblestone build for the next video at the same time and had cobblestone on the brain. It was all concrete for that test.
The Fun Pimps definitely overengineered the path finding a bit.
Possibly lol
10, no bonus. Keep up the good work!
Test 11 has an issue - the stairs + ladders may be shorter, but the path to them is longer, so the path from start point to player is shorter on the stairs side.
Yeah, I tried to make it as close as possible by constraining the zombie path with bars so that the horizontal block length was the same for each route. But if I added an extra block between stairs and ladder, then that path would have had an "extra" block.
@pseudoposse same comment. I'd move the stairs off center by 1 block to make the path 2 blocks longer total. May not be perfect depending on how devs compute corners.
New player here(PS5)
Taste my tears option Aers!!!
Thanks for this! I got 10 (no bonus). I wonder if there's any difference between ramps and stairs. That was a lot of work and I appreciate every bit of it! Cheers!
Thank you!! I don't think there is any difference between ramps and stairs as both probably take the same effort.
@@pseudoposse did you really say "probably"? 🤣
Excellent video EK. I won't share my score, as I am embarrassed of it given the number of hours I have in this game. Suffice it to say, less than 8...but I do claim the bonus.
Never be afraid on this channel, it is a safe space! But fair enough if you want to keep the score secret :)
What matters most is you got the bonus!
Thanks, Pseudo! Zombies in my game can be interesting in their life-"path" choices!
I hope they can make the right life path choices 😁
Okay, that was an amazing video. And only got 4 without bonus.
Well now you know a bit more than you did before which is the point :)
@15:25 you're not adding the distance from where you spawn the zombie to the bottom of the stairs. The grey path, which is part of the distance they have to travel to get to you. So therefore, the left path is not shorter... the right path is...
The next test, the ladder side is a longer path, its going on the xy axis and then the z axis... the stairs combine those which makes it shorter...
Yeah for test 11, if you count those ground blocks, the left path is slightly longer (10.24 vs 10.07]. But, the result still stands I think as when I was in back corner on left side, they still wanted to go right unless I was right on the edge.
Technically, that is correct again! But again, i would make same argument that the result is still correct as it took spawning them really close to the ladder to make them run that way. Not included in the video, but I did spawn them a block or two further then that in front of the ladder and they still went for stairs. So ladder path was still shorter and yet they went for stairs.
This was fun.
I got 10/15. And yes, fifteen. I didn't get the bonus point but for some reason expected 15 questions 😀
Another interesting question would be "How far are zombies able to track a path to the players?"
Cause some of me bigger builds (zombie traps) when I got carried away didn't work out properly and the zombies were sniffing at the pillars/basement, instead of taking the stairs far away but with pretty much direct path to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That one behavior I still don't fully understand. I fully get the 15 (often more like 16) block distance to avoid them being all angry and start smashing stuff around. But if you bypass the distance and they come from the opposite side of the stars (that's important part) they often don't seems to register the path (stairs) and go for pillars/other stuff.
But if I lead them to stairs or they spawn at the correct side, they work correctly and even loop if the build involves that.
That is a respectable score! The problem with what you just described goes back to the fundamental workings of the zombie ai. They will follow the path of least resistance. So if you make a direct, but long path, they will see it as too much trouble and instead beat on your supports. That is an issue with large bases. Since zombies can spawn N, S, E, W from the player, your base needs to have entrances to accommodate any potential spawn locations. And if zombies drop out of your base and need to re-enter, make sure the path is short enough that they'll be willing to travel. The ai is always weighting the strength of the supports, versus the length of the path (if there is a path). So the stronger you make the supports, the longer you can make the path. But there are limits.
@@pseudoposse I think the alternative staircase should do the trick in my scenario.
I was mostly surprised, because while I called it big, it's certainly nowhere near the total length of some of the obstacle courses features on your channel.
It also works perfectly for the zombies that get drop offed.
And it works without flaw if I move out of my safe house closer to the drop point.
Idea was to have them long enough on a flat surface going in a direct line for us to shoot, while keeping it super low tech with any additional parts and needs of repair kept to minimum (so no electric fence, not even barbed wire etc...).
But not all zombies that spawn near our safe house go for the staircase on the opposite side. Some of them instead deciding to stick around and start smashing thing. My force field at the base of safe house confusing them even more, but they even go as far as penetrating even that.
Given the thickness of the support and how high we are in the air + the force field at the bottom I didn't really expect them to ignore the wide staircase.
My ideas were:
a) Bottom of the staircase too far for them to consider as the easier path or some issue with registering that path even exist -> hence my question if there is a maximum block distance zombies will know to look during their pathing decision. That could be interesting test.
b) Entrance towards the corridor/bridge too heavily fortified. Given it's a zombie dropper this part wasn't even needed, but I like to add additional safe measures.
Possibly quickly adding a path for zombies to reach us is one of them, hence the fortified 'window'.
I think I used the usual stuff in the classic melee/shooting window defense. But maybe the combined hitpoints make this path less viable for zombies.
c) Ladder and door combination making this a preferred entrance, due to the zombies being big fan of doors.
Also this taught me that using basic forcefield of Cube Hole right under the 2 block of the ground ladder will actually enable zombies to jump out of the hole and reach the ladder if lucky 😀
Definitely going for the Storage Block next time, if not using a proper trench
1: I'm guessing Floats, cause their attack reach is often too accurate...I feel like i could cheese it more if it were interger. V
2: C, because they try to reach your Y level, to attack.V
3: [didn't listen carefully enough to the question but yeah, i did honestly know it's shorter path/least resistance, though.V
4:A enter rage mode, and destroy area.V
5:B they do like to appraoch player FIRST. that's part of the basis of a lot of base designs.
6:C there's gonna be some that climb up to reach you, and fall off, and realising this, they'll start going to destroy area mode and going after the pillar.
7: proximity will yield priority, most of the time.
8:B the higher path, as it gets them closest.
9:A always path of least resistance, barring random variables, like clogged staircase, and just...silliness, like if you spawn a crowd, the ones lcosest to the staircase from that spawn spot will take the shorter stair, most likely. [didn't know facing has an effect, but we can assume we're not gonna be spawning them in, and that they will always be facing the player and approaching from beyond the perimeter of the hoard base, or what ever....so I think the correct answer should be A still.
10:intuition says stairs. but I legit don't know! [wait was that B? I thought it was A your test sheet needs work.]
11:B more difficult. but...do you know? I'm gonna go with B because I swear they go for verticality first, and the ramp does that....but it's kinda a guess at this point.
12:A yeah, you can get them to take the ladder but it circles back to test 2 making it "least resistance" that can generally mean you have to bring it closer, perhaps in a temporal sense. the time to climb beling less than the time to walk the ramp.
13:I"m guessing 2 doors to make them prefer the block. but I don't have much direct experience with doors so this is a guess.
14:B I think I heard 53 when using a different test with "nonpathableish" blocks. but another flat guess, really.
Bonus:XX I didn't even think about it.
i dind't correct myself at the start, but I think I got 11/14, though, so i'm happy enough with that.
That is a good score! Thank you for the detailed breakdown!
@@pseudoposse for sure! I recall the ancient days...of RongotheBold's rongo labs. I remember spider what used to also be the screamer...the two OTHER variants of ice zombie, I remember the giant bee, and the hive they rarely lived in, where you could collect honey...I am one of the OG. i've SEEN some things. [started playing back in like Alpha...FOUR.]
Theory regarding Test 9: When zombies are far away, rather than making a beeline to the player, they will pick a certain "point" between the player and the zombie to path to first, (I'm thinking 14 blocks) go there, and then re-calculate their pathing again. This is why they move towards the stairs they are facing--they are pathing not to the player but to the best route to this "point".
The reason why I believe this is the case is because zombies show signs of doing this during Blood Moon. It's especially obvious on multiplayer servers with more players than the game can handle, because some of the zombies will path to this "point" and then just stand there, like they're bugged out and can't calculate the next "point".
Hmm that could be. It depends on how the pathing algorithm is set up. If they immediately calculated an optimal path at the moment they sense you, then you wouldn't ever see it. There could be a waypoint type of algorithm where they try to hit up those intermediate goals first before reaching the player.
Can you do a guide on water bases? And zombie water pathing? As well as under water forcefield blocks?
Basically how to make an oil rig type base in a lake work properly
11 (no bonus) and it's not 5k vs 5k (single door) even if he can path through a single block space.. he very very likely needs to destroy the second block so it's 5k door vs 10k 2concrete blocks
since he'll bash the upper block first (the one at chest height) but won't be able to crawl through without help of a dog or another zombo -> make a crawling path for comparable results
considering how bad zombies are at destroying blocks which are harder to reach (below waist and above head) he probably has to destroy or will destroy more than 2 blocks before he can reach you, so the door option makes perfect sense.. bash on one easily reachable block vs 2+ blocks where 1-2 are hard to reach
please test this again -> how much time do they need to destroy blocks above their head.. below their waist etc. compared to at chest level
i'm curious and i'm certain this is also factored into their pathing
Since zombies can crawl through 1m openings, I think the 5000 hiptoint statement is still true :) And congrats on matching my score!
@@pseudoposse if you show me the boe crawling through if the gap is 1 block high in a regular block wall, otherwise i'm not convinced
even if he is able to path through the 1block high 1m gap.. he has to crawl and running is preferred over any other form -> see ladders - stairs
since i've built crawler bases i know how inconsistent their crawling is (if you don't make it easy for them).. but hey i'm just giving you free content ideas :P
@@broinlol That is easy to show, in fact, I can show you going through a less than 1m gap ;)
Just check out our melee base video several video back for proof of that. But in general whenever I have done a horde, if 1 block gets destroyed, the zombies will start flooding in.
Crawling can definitely be inconsistent, and is dependent on zombie height. Appreciate the ideas :D
@@pseudoposse i'm not doubting if they can go through a 1m gap.. i doubt they can go through a 1m gap thats 1block high easily especially if it's 1 zombie like in the test.. if it's more they can stack and bump each other into that gap, but a single one?
Wow, how do you do this footage with another camera of your character playing? Congratulations.
I've got an older computer I use to record myself while building/testing.
Test whether zombies will path to the player IF they must first travel above the player's height above ground, then back down to the player. Will zombies travel up to go down?
They definitely will if they have no way to take a shortcut :)
Welp... Hm.
...
6/14
1- (X) Heck, didn't think they make them that accurate.
2- Expected.
3- Expected.
4- Expected.
5- (X) I don't even know why I got this one wrong... I guess I'll still count it wrong even though if any of the zombies nudge each other off they'd go into a rage mode and start beating on a nearby pillar, when in reality that's not what they "want to do" initially, it's just rage.
6- (X) I will say it's annoying here because I've witnessed zombies with a clear-cut pillar-jumping and pole-laid-out path just beat on the top of a pillar instead of continuing to get towards me. It's irritating to see them destroy the literal platform they're on that *HELPS* the zombies get to me, and if they remove it it makes it impossible for them to use that path. However, I sort of got this one wrong because I never see them bash on the pillar supports, but I see them bash on the main block they can stand on. I do notice they rid a pillar supporting something completely useless to getting to me however... which is still annoying (I hate the AI).
7- Expected them to care for the height. I *will* say B is correct *IF* both endpoints are equidistant and they end at the same height, but because the height is lower on the left - it's not technically equidistant and it's also on a lower height.
8- Same.
9- (X) *what* >:c
10- (X)
11- (X) ... 😒
12- *FINALLY* >:l ... Also I am not giving myself a point because I still don't find that to be an exploit. It's like stating you're exploiting someone in a wheelchair by using stairs while they have to go around for a ramp. The animals simply can't climb ladders, so they only see one path. I'd find it to be exploiting if the ladder IS a path that they could climb but get filtered out because there are two bars to the sides of the ladder.
13- (X) I will state, A and B are obvious (to me) as they see it as "Destroying 2 blocks to get to you" on the left, and "Destroying 2 blocks (doors) to get to you" on the right. So it couldn't be the first two. Since doors are multiblocks, the HP is divided dependent on the size (likewise, the weight is multiplied by the size). So for example, a 5x3 door having 15,000 HP is viewed as just a wall of blocks with 1,000 HP per block. Likewise, each of these doors is actually "2500 HP" to the zombie - and I bet somewhere in the code they also factor in how easy it is for the zombies to buff each other to break down a block/wall/door. I also suppose they go for it as it is something that can be "Opened" - so it has a state in which it CAN get through (like if they were to bust down an iron-bar door enough, they can go through the hole, or if a player just leaves it open). However, I didn't guess before the answer was given and I also wouldn't expect the answer either. Also, 20:10 confused me a bit "with a single concrete, 5000 Hitpoint wall" but on screen it shows Cobblestone. Each Cobblestone block is 1,500 so 2 of it would be 3,000 - whereas each concrete block is 5000, so 2 of it would be 10,000. So the zombie is contemplating on either bashing through 3,000 HP or 10,000 HP - a big difference. The Iron Door however *IS* 5000 HP (at least the variant you used). So presuming it's a wall of concrete which is 10,000 - it seems it takes twice the HP of door HP resistance to remove the temptation of doors and focus on walls instead. So 20,000 HP of door < 10,000 HP of wall. I guess it helps to nailgun shoot a block or two to see the HP of the walls around a building and compare it to the door to see if the door is tempting enough or not.
14- (X) It wasn't A because A was tested in the background 😅... and hecc.. I chose D. I expect zombies can't path farther than 40, so they won't even see the door if the door is too far to reach (because they can't "see" the path), but I didn't factor in how they still view the door as some level of resistance. *I WAS CLOSE THOUGH* :p
What an awesome, thoughtful breakdown of results!
Master of 7dtd testing
Haha thanks
16:15 you forgot the flat ground distance which turn 6.24m to 8.24m vs 7.07m i guess 🤔
minor mistake no big deal still a good content 👍
Edit: i only got 8 score lol
Yeah I didn't add up that total length below. And if you add everything up to the bar it is actually 10.24 to 10.07. But the result still holds I think as being in the left corner still resulted in them running right until I was on the very edge.
@@pseudoposse multiple full blocks distance of running space was that small of a distance?
Wish the choice of blocks would’ve been explained…since they influence the pathing too, depending on shape and strength. So it kept me wondering why round shapes were chosen instead of cubes…plain design choice or does it have pathing relevance
Just aesthetic reasons. The pillars were not used for any pathing reasons.
I didn't learn Pythagorean Theorem until high school.
All that matters is you learned it :)
You're logic on tests 11-12 is flawed.
The zombies usea weighted algorithm based on (total path length), (path difficulty),(distance to player)+(a random decision maker) to decide.
Test 11: Stair(right) side the zed has to walk 3 blocks level+7.07 blocks on stairs + 4 blocks level to a centered player. Ladder(left) side the zed has to walk 5 blocks level + 4.24 blocks on stairs + 2 blocks ladder + 4 blocks level to a centered player.
Stairs=14.07
Ladder=15.24 + ladder difficulty modifier.
Test 12 is the same.
Stair(right) side the zed has to walk 5.65 blocks level + 8.48 blocks on stairs + 3 blocks level to a centered player.
Ladder(left) side the zed has to walk 9.43 blocks level + 6 blocks ladder + 3 blocks level to a centered player.
Stairs=17.13
Ladder=18.43 + ladder difficulty modifier.
In both tests the ladder route is longer and more difficult. In test 12 when the player moved all the way to the far corner and the Zeds started using the ladder it was because of the added distance after getting to the top.
I did make a mistake not counting the bottom ground distance to the bars in which case, the distance from edge of bar to the top of the path is 10.24m on the right, and 10.07m on the left. But, I think the result still stand as when I stood on the left side (making the left side shorter), they still ran right. It took me being on the very edge for them to run left.
Yes, test 12 also has a longer "path" on the bottom which is why I started spawning them closer to the ladder. Not sure how much made it into the video, but I spawned them at various other points closer to the ladder and at several of them, the ladder path was definitely shorter.
But I definitely see your points, thank you for pointing them out!
so that's why Zed run over to my Door on first floor instead of running onto a staircase I prepare for the Battle station.
Thanks alot dude, my Base got eaten by Zed because I dig a trench AAAAALLLL the way around my Area and some of them spawn far away, drop into a trench and start digging like a mole.
If I got enough time, I'll transport Water into the Trench and made it Medieval style lol, not sure it will help about rage mode or not.
No problem! And yes, water should help with rage.
1/14 with the bonus....was the only point I got. LOL Figured you just HAD to exploit.
At the very least, you can predict me 😁
9/14 +1 very interesting stuff. Does you think they calculate a value of the possible paths with modifiers for the path type (straight flat is just distance x1.0, ramp is distance x1.5 ladder distance x2?) Where doors and walls have a value to break added to the path?
They do have a cost scale that weights their decision plus some randomization I think so there are definitely modifiers.
4.44 how does it work / what makes them make a zombieladder/zombie pile vs just bashing thier way to u ?
As they collect, especially in a confined space, they will squeeze each other up which then allows them to jump in top of each other. So bashing and piling are one on the same.
Unrelated to pathing, but I have some electricity "problems" I don't fully understand. I have a garage and automatic door set-up where the triggering camera see me 3 flights up through a concrete security gate, concrete full block and concrete half block. On the other hand I have a camera that can't see a zombie through a bullet proof glass plate for a dart trap set-up? Anything you know anything about. The garage thing is only slightly annoying, but I cannot understand the bulletproof glass thing. The dart set-up works perfectly well without a bulletproof plate in front of it, but doesn't without.
It is hard to exactly say without seeing your base. But in general, the motion sensor cannot see through solid bocks though anything that has holes/gaps (like the security gate) or is see through (like the glass) can be seen by the motion sensor. There might be some solid blocks that the motion sensor can see through which might explain what is going on.
@@pseudoposse Guess posting a video was not kosher? Sorry about that. Anyways as I said I have a camera in my current base that sees through 3 blocks (security gate expected, full block and half block unexpected). And another that cannot see through a bulletproof plate block (unexpected?). Thought it might have similar context to the cop spit findings, but the full block baffles me. Anyways thanks for the content, you come up with some fun stuff.
I actually had a zombdog climb a ladder.
Interesting!
Do you have any data explaining what makes zed go into rage/destroy area mode? I see people suggesting specific heights. There's also the use of water.
I go into some more detail on that in our 80 beginner building tips video. But as far as why, it is when they take damage. So if you attack a zombie, they can go into rage mode where they run fast and chase after you. They will also go into rage when taking fall damage. But if they fall far enough from the player, it prevents rage. Water can also mitigate it though you need to make it deep enough. And if they take damage from another source like electric traps, that will also reset rage.
I have a question. On test 8 you said the answer was option a, the left side. In the video though, the zombie chose option b, the right side. Which is it?
Thank you for the informative video either way! :)
Actually you are correct, I did say the wrong option. It is the right side so it is option B :)
I put iron bars in front of an iron door and they chose two layers of cobblestone and a layer of wooden spikes.
Whoops.
Math teachers should take this as an example for what all the stuff is usefull for. At least the gamers would start paying attention! ;)
Couldn't agree more!
Awesome thank you for this but I am curious about your second test. You spawned your zombies in front of the stairs. But would they consistently take the stairs if they were spawned so that they came from the opposite direction? Just like on hoard night the zombies can spawn from different directions so would they go the extra distance to use the stairs or beat the pillar?
Second test didn't have stairs. That is the range floating point test with the ladder. Which test are you referring?
@@pseudoposse sorry the third test where you introduced stairs
@@TBathory I think you are talking about the fifth test. But yes, if you spawned them on the opposite side, they would ultimately run towards the stairs.
Got 2 with no bonus 😢. But now i know more!
That is the important takeaway!
I got 6, the first 5 and I always take option D when available.
Can't go wrong with D :)
I was hoping you would do more with d wolves and bears. I am trying to get my paths to automatically filter the animals and zombies to use different paths.
Well I did drop a not so subtle hint in the video as to what is next. So I am sure you'll be more satisfied next week ;)
@@pseudoposse I heard it, I just chose to ignore spoilers. And your videos are always satisfying.
The best way I have currently found is to use a sideways door to break the path and periodically close it to let them through. You probably have better tricks than me.
13/14 +1 I use doors to attract zombies so no clue on the last one. I assumed they also disliked ladder paths, like jump block steps, because they travel at half speed on them. Is it possible to discus pathing without showing how to break the AI? Bonus was a free point.
six.... I got 6. No bonus🦀😒Great video tho. Thank Yee'!🦀😎
Pretty good! Glad you enjoyed the video!
Also don't take my nitpicking as a negative to your content. It's a lot of work and its quality stuff.
Absolutely, I have no issues taking constructive criticism. All science requires peer review and scrutiny so I am glad you all can correct me when I make a mistake :)
sadly only 9 right.....no bonus. you could've made a bonus bonus question like: how many blocks away from Tacobear do you have to stand to avoid catching on fire when she mis-throws her molotov!
Haha that is an excellent bonus idea for the future! Be on the lookout ;)
8 points I was surprised there
I am glad you were surprised!
Test 13 you say 5000hp cobblestone, but are using concrete.
This test is by far the most interesting. I had thought the reason the Zeds choose the door path "like a magnet" is when the logic goes to plot a path to the player it treats a door like open ground. However after 4 doors they changed their mind. So they aren't ignored completely. If a closed door adds some calculation to the zed path, what about an open door? What about a open hatch used as a wall?
I don't think open doors count but I'll have to doublecheck that to make sure! I am not sure if zombies have the same level of attraction to hatches...that is a good point!
@@pseudoposse my go to gate at the end of my zombie path is a hatch on the floor opened and blocking their movement. It doesn't seem to effect their pathing. Or if it does it's very slight like the doors in your test.
Pythagoras was responsible for the Pythagorean theorem. I know it's a nit pick but, the gentleman's name was Pythagoras.
you gotta be an engineer
Very well could be ;)
👍👍
🖖
10 (no bonus)
It seems it's not the path distance but the path time that is calculated??
I've long thought time is a component of their pathing determination though I cannot be 100% sure.
@@pseudoposse yeah who knows, either way amazing video!
11/14 no bonus. Anyone who got more is a lucky guesser (luckier than I, lol)
The last two are especially hard given there is no way to really logically come up with an answer. But that is the score I got myself so I'll say you did quite well! But maybe I am biased :D
i build a 11 hight tower with stairs for the zombies. theyy can get up and stand 1 block next to me with only 1 wall beetween us, but 50% start bashing my full solid 6x6 tower and try to destroy it xD
its so mutch easer to come up the stairs and destroy that 1 block, why thy start dashing my tower ? =/
It could be dependent on the game stage (GS) of the horde. The strength of the tower might deter zombies at a lower GS than at a higher GS.
Also, I generally avoid making a solid base as zombies in theory could bash blocks to tunnel up to you. So they might see that as a viable way to travel as well. I always make my towers hollow on the inside. Wall thickness usually varies from 1-3 blocks, but never completely solid.
I got ten. Scouts honor ✋
Great job 🖖
on 6 they jump, sometimes :D... anyways 7 no bonus
13 / 14 :)
Impressive!
11 / 14 +1
If I had a nickel for every one I got right I’d have 97 cents
Your math on test 11 is wrong you forgot to include the two additional blocks to get to the start of the stairs so it's 8.24 meters.
Stairs are shorter than ladder
I didn't get any right... gotta watch more Pseudo Posse
Good idea 🤪
did not really count, but It was around 8+-
Respectable
I got 7/14 no bonus 😅
Very good!
Can someone ELI5 on how we can exploit this to build a horde base?
i got 8 with no bonus
I had 22
Not sure how the math works on that one 🤔
I got 10 out of 14... Okay I guess